If you're providing free tech support and a PC gets fried by a power surge...

[Bearcat]

...who's responsible for the cost of parts and replacement?

I was working on someone's PC Friday night, and for those who live in KC, you know there were storms in the area. I even stopped working on it for a couple hours as the second wave of storms passed through, but later that night it got hit with a power surge and now won't power on at all. I believe it needs a new motherboard, which will be $70-90 if it's bought online.

It's the first time such a thing has happened in my years of providing free tech support, so if it was your PC, would you assume that I'm paying to get it fixed? I talked to them earlier today and said I'm okay with putting the new one in and making sure it works (if they were using it and had a power surge, I'd end up doing it anyway), but it seemed to be assumed that I was also paying for the motherboard, and I'm not sure how I feel about that part.

Before saying of course you're paying for it, dumbass! consider...

-- Over the years, I've provided this person tech support several times that's almost always without a cost (and if there's a cost, it's "buy me dinner next time we're out", so like $15). By Geek Squad prices, I'd say it's well over $1000 over the years, and even if they found a reputable local shop, it would be well over $500 (and I mention Geek Squad because that's probably where it would be taken).

-- If I pay for the motherboard and spend the time to replace it, it's guaranteed that I'll never offer support again, free or at a price, or with an "act of God" clause. If that means finding someone else to do it for free, then maybe that's okay, but if you only know one IT person now...

-- I basically had about 5-8 hours over the weekend to fix several software problems, and most of that time was on Friday night. I doubt we would get together for at least another month, so is "there were thunderstorms in the area" a good enough excuse not to get anything done? IMO, not really.

-- I offered to help with the replacement, meaning finding one online and doing the work to replace it.

I'm torn on this one... I feel bad, but sh*t happens. I've had electronics die after power outages and power surges, even when they were on surge protectors, and I don't have a UPS laying around. If I was getting paid, I'd probably not take their money (or use that money to pay for the hardware)... but, since I already offered the free service of physically replacing it on top of the free service of fixing their software problems, should I also have to pay $70-90?

Edit: I failed to mention the PC was in my possession, at my place... so, it's not like I just sat down at their place and it happened while I was sitting there.

[Ming the Merciless]

U sure it isnt just the power supply?

[Stewie]

Wait. You provide free tech support and when something happens that's out of your control your customer thinks you should pay? You need a better class of customer.

[MTG#10]

If it was the result of an act of God you shouldn't be responsible for replacing the mobo or installing it.

[Just Passin' By]

If I was getting paid, I'd probably not take their money (or use that money to pay for the hardware)... but, since I already offered the free service of physically replacing it on top of the free service of fixing their software problems, should I also have to pay $70-90?

No

[jspchief]

If he asks you to pay, agree to then hand him the bill for your services rendered up until this point.

[OnTheWarpath15]

WTF is there to feel torn about?

You did nothing to cause said power surge. It would have happened whether you were there or not.

I'd quit providing free services to what sounds like unappreciative friends, first and foremost.

[007]

If I am repairing somebody elses computer and that happens on my watch, I would feel that it is my responsibility to repair it. The computer was entrusted to me.

Of course, I wouldn't have had the thing plugged in during a thunderstorm either.

[Bearcat]

U sure it isnt just the power supply?

Yes, I swapped out power supplies, and don't see any blown capacitors... I'll probably get a second opinion or do some more work on it, but I'm pretty sure it's the motherboard.

[Bearcat]

WTF is there to feel torn about?

You did nothing to cause said power surge. It would have happened whether you were there or not.

I'd quit providing free services to what sounds like unappreciative friends, first and foremost.

They dropped off the PC, so the chances are pretty slim that it would have happened anyway.... I didn't just happen to be at their place when it got fried.

[TrickyNicky]

So you had it plugged into a surge protector and it still fried?

[Bearcat]

If I am repairing somebody elses computer and that happens on my watch, I would feel that it is my responsibility to repair it. The computer was entrusted to me.

Of course, I wouldn't have had the thing plugged in during a thunderstorm either.

So, if you gave your computer to someone, knowing they weren't going to have the chance to fix what you consider serious problems for another month or two, you would be okay with them saying "sorry, I didn't get anything done because there were thunderstorms in the area"?

IMO, there's just not enough risk there, and like I said, I had even quit working on it for a couple hours because of a wave of thunderstorms in the area, and more popped up later.

[Bugeater]

Hell no you shouldn't be stuck paying for it, you're already losing money by doing the shit for free.

[Demonpenz]

I don't do shit for anyone anymore. Problem solved

[007]

So, if you gave your computer to someone, knowing they weren't going to have the chance to fix what you consider serious problems for another month or two, you would be okay with them saying "sorry, I didn't get anything done because there were thunderstorms in the area"?

IMO, there's just not enough risk there, and like I said, I had even quit working on it for a couple hours because of a wave of thunderstorms in the area, and more popped up later.
Thats just it though. I won't work on another persons computer if there are storms in the area. No surge protector is infallible and I would rather play it safe than end up creating a bigger problem than I started with. But that is just me. Plus, if you are doing it for free then they have no reason to bitch that you took an extra day or two to do the work. If they bitched about that to me I would never work on their shit again

[Bearcat]

Hell no you shouldn't be stuck paying for it, you're already losing money by doing the shit for free.

Well, at least I know I'm not just being defensive, or I'm not crazy.... guess I feel a little responsible since I knew the risks, even if it's not a big risk.... or maybe it has to do with my long history of being a tool. :shrug:

[Lbedrock1]

...who's responsible for the cost of parts and replacement?

I was working on someone's PC Friday night, and for those who live in KC, you know there were storms in the area. I even stopped working on it for a couple hours as the second wave of storms passed through, but later that night it got hit with a power surge and now won't power on at all. I believe it needs a new motherboard, which will be $70-90 if it's bought online.

It's the first time such a thing has happened in my years of providing free tech support, so if it was your PC, would you assume that I'm paying to get it fixed? I talked to them earlier today and said I'm okay with putting the new one in and making sure it works (if they were using it and had a power surge, I'd end up doing it anyway), but it seemed to be assumed that I was also paying for the motherboard, and I'm not sure how I feel about that part.

Before saying of course you're paying for it, dumbass! consider...

-- Over the years, I've provided this person tech support several times that's almost always without a cost (and if there's a cost, it's "buy me dinner next time we're out", so like $15). By Geek Squad prices, I'd say it's well over $1000 over the years, and even if they found a reputable local shop, it would be well over $500 (and I mention Geek Squad because that's probably where it would be taken).

-- If I pay for the motherboard and spend the time to replace it, it's guaranteed that I'll never offer support again, free or at a price, or with an "act of God" clause. If that means finding someone else to do it for free, then maybe that's okay, but if you only know one IT person now...

-- I basically had about 5-8 hours over the weekend to fix several software problems, and most of that time was on Friday night. I doubt we would get together for at least another month, so is "there were thunderstorms in the area" a good enough excuse not to get anything done? IMO, not really.

-- I offered to help with the replacement, meaning finding one online and doing the work to replace it.

I'm torn on this one... I feel bad, but sh*t happens. I've had electronics die after power outages and power surges, even when they were on surge protectors, and I don't have a UPS laying around. If I was getting paid, I'd probably not take their money (or use that money to pay for the hardware)... but, since I already offered the free service of physically replacing it on top of the free service of fixing their software problems, should I also have to pay $70-90?

You should have know to unplug the computer while the storms were in the area. It looks bad for you to give them a computer that will not even turn on when it was not in that coindition when you got it. Forget what they think you go about it in 2 ways. Check the power supply and see if that is the issue and if so fix whatever software issue it is and tell then you had to buy a power supply. They will pay you for that with no problems. Tell them what happened and see if they are willing to spend the money on whatever it cost to fix it. They will more than like want you to fix it back to at least its original state. This is why you dont give free tech support unless it is your best friend or close family.

[unlurking]

In the OP, you fail to mention that the PC was in your possession at your residence/business. I originally sided with you under the false assumption that you were at the user's location, who likely had a faulty or no surge protector. After reading the thread, and the parts where you admit that it was on your premises, I'm kind of up in the air.

As the PC owner, I'd be understanding, and while disappointed, I'd cough up the dough and pay for the motherboard and be honestly grateful for your time and efforts.

As the repair technician, I'd be seriously embarrassed that this happened on my watch and replace the unit personally. At the same time, I'd take the opportunity to use this event as an excuse to back out from free tech support in the future. Possibly offer "at cost" support or something so that the user only comes to you in emergencies.

EDIT:
I voted pay for all of it, just because that's what I would do. No excuses, but if somebody leaves their property with me, I plan to return it in the same condition or better. Whether you have been saving the customer money over the years with free support is irrelevant, that was your choice/mistake.

[Baby Lee]

In the legal sense, the fact that it's in your exclusive possession makes it a bailment. Basically, if someone temporarily transfers property of value to another, the recipient [you] has a duty to exercise reasonable care that the property is not damaged.

$$ need not change hands for this bailment to be created [ie, think gratis valet parking or coat check]

Non-free tech support/repair contracts generally explicitly disclaim liability for power surge or acts of God, but that's a contract matter.

[DaFace]

If you end up eating the cost to repair it, I would make it perfectly clear that you'll never work on it again without them paying you for it.

[Bearcat]

You should have know to unplug the computer while the storms were in the area. It looks bad for you to give them a computer that will not even turn on when it was not in that coindition when you got it. Forget what they think you go about it in 2 ways. Check the power supply and see if that is the issue and if so fix whatever software issue it is and tell then you had to buy a power supply. They will pay you for that with no problems. Tell them what happened and see if they are willing to spend the money on whatever it cost to fix it. They will more than like want you to fix it back to at least its original state. This is why you dont give free tech support unless it is your best friend or close family.

It never really crossed my mind to just give it back as it is now... I don't have a problem doing the work to replace it as I find time, and I've already offered to do that. It's the $70+ on top of my time that's the problem. I'm okay helping them resolve the problem, regardless of who was using the computer at the time, but I think it's a bit much for them to assume that I'm paying for the hardware.

Check the power supply

The power supply is fine.

This is why you dont give free tech support unless it is your best friend or close family.

Yeah. :(

[MTG#10]

I didnt realize they dropped the pc off to you, I was under the impression that you were at their home working on it for them. That changes my opinion completely.

[Just Passin' By]

The next home I go to where everything is unplugged during a storm will be the first, so I don't really see why your standard of care would be expected to be higher. Sometimes, shit just happens.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They dropped off the PC, so the chances are pretty slim that it would have happened anyway.... I didn't just happen to be at their place when it got fried.

My mistake. I read that differently.

I still don't think it's your responsibility.

[Bugeater]

I didnt realize they dropped the pc off to you, I was under the impression that you were at their home working on it for them. That changes my opinion completely.
Why? If you drop off your car to a mechanic buddy's house so he can fix something on it for free, and while it's parked there a thunderstorm rolls through and blows a tree over onto it, are you going to expect him to replace it for you?

[unlurking]

Why? If you drop off your car to a mechanic buddy's house so he can fix something on it for free, and while it's parked there a thunderstorm rolls through and blows a tree over onto it, are you going to expect him to replace it for you?

Yes, by calling his home owner's insurance company.

[BigRedChief]

WTF is there to feel torn about?

You did nothing to cause said power surge. It would have happened whether you were there or not.

I'd quit providing free services to what sounds like unappreciative friends, first and foremost.THIS! :thumb: Act of God thingy/

[Bugeater]

Yes, by calling his home owner's insurance company.
I don't know that homeowner's insurance would cover that. It's my understanding that it doesn't cover anything that can be insured on its own.

[Baby Lee]

All these pronouncements of fact are really opinions. The situation is that he took in the property, thereby assuming the duty to provide reasonable care. What constitutes reasonable care is a question of fact [ie, up to a jury, ultimately]. There's a reason there's so many terms in those service contracts.

bc is best served negotiating/finessing the situation, because the legal situation is a crapshoot. Doesn't matter that he was doing a favor, or had done favors in the past, just what reasonable care in his specific situation should have been to the decider of fact.

[unlurking]

I don't know that homeowner's insurance would cover that. It's my understanding that it doesn't cover anything that can be insured on its own.

Could be right, I'd have to double check. If not, then I'd use my own auto insurance. If the tree was rotten and falling over prior to the storm, I'd ask you to pay my deductible, just like I should have unplugged your PC or purchased a higher grade surge protector and not the 2 for $10 variety.

[Psyko Tek]

So you had it plugged into a surge protector and it still fried?

sir,
I have seen thjousand dollar motor controller give up their lives to protect a fifty cent fuse
do not trust surge protectors to cover your ass

if you think lightning might hit
unplug it

[unlurking]

All these pronouncements of fact are really opinions. The situation is that he took in the property, thereby assuming the duty to provide reasonable care. What constitutes reasonable care is a question of fact [ie, up to a jury, ultimately]. There's a reason there's so many terms in those service contracts.

bc is best served negotiating/finessing the situation, because the legal situation is a crapshoot. Doesn't matter that he was doing a favor, or had done favors in the past, just what reasonable care in his specific situation should have been to the decider of fact.
A lesson in the true costs of providing free support. Personally, I would think a $100 is a cheap excuse to get out of doing so much time intensive work for others, for no apparent benefit.

[unlurking]

sir,
I have seen thjousand dollar motor controller give up their lives to protect a fifty cent fuse
do not trust surge protectors to cover your ass

if you think lightning might hit
unplug it
I'm still waiting for BC to state whether he was in fact using any surge protector at all. This part of the last statement is leading me to think no?

I've had electronics die after power outages and power surges, even when they were on surge protectors, and I don't have a UPS laying around.

[Saulbadguy]

I've done countless hours of free/reduced cost tech support.

If I were in your situation, i'd charge them for the part, but install it for free. That way you aren't out any $$$ and only time.

[007]

The next home I go to where everything is unplugged during a storm will be the first, so I don't really see why your standard of care would be expected to be higher. Sometimes, shit just happens.

I don't unplug my own shit as I have them on surge protectors that will insure me for any loss of my own equipment. If I am working on somebody elses computer I will alway keep it unplugged unless I am actually doing something that requires it to be plugged in. I will not, under any circumstance, work on anything electronic during a thunderstorm unless it is work that does not require any power at all.

all that said, if I am not working on it at all, it isn't plugged in. Simple as that.

[jAZ]

You trying to be kind, but you trashed the guy's computer in doing so. You buy him a new MB. /story

Next time, don't offer to help someone if you don't know how to or are unwilling to do it safely.

[kcfan82]

I get suckered into doing it for family members all the time, and used to offer to friends. I've never had anything like that happen.

It's amazing that you can be a DBA, ASP.NET developer, System Engineer, Network Engineer, etc and all the general person thinks is: "Oh you know about computers, let me ask you a question".

[Just Passin' By]

You trying to be kind, but you trashed the guy's computer in doing so. You buy him a new MB. /story

Next time, don't offer to help someone if you don't know how to or are unwilling to do it safely.

Unless the O.P. is a thunderstorm who goes around causing power surges, he did not "trash the computer".

[Bearcat]

In the OP, you fail to mention that the PC was in your possession at your residence/business. I originally sided with you under the false assumption that you were at the user's location, who likely had a faulty or no surge protector. After reading the thread, and the parts where you admit that it was on your premises, I'm kind of up in the air.

As the PC owner, I'd be understanding, and while disappointed, I'd cough up the dough and pay for the motherboard and be honestly grateful for your time and efforts.

As the repair technician, I'd be seriously embarrassed that this happened on my watch and replace the unit personally. At the same time, I'd take the opportunity to use this event as an excuse to back out from free tech support in the future. Possibly offer "at cost" support or something so that the user only comes to you in emergencies.

EDIT:
I voted pay for all of it, just because that's what I would do. No excuses, but if somebody leaves their property with me, I plan to return it in the same condition or better. Whether you have been saving the customer money over the years with free support is irrelevant, that was your choice/mistake.

Your opinion is well put, and the reason I'm torn is because I basically see both sides the way you do. If I was the PC owner though, I wouldn't be disappointed.... I've lost electronics that were on surge protectors before due to power outages or surges; it does happen.

If I was a business owner, I would be embarrassed, and it would be on me to do whatever it took, time and money, to return the PC in working condition.... as a favor for someone, it's a bit fuzzy. I still feel obligated to do something, but not be out time and $70+.

I see your point on whether past support is relevant, but I think it is... there's a difference between a first time impression and screwing up at the first chance you get. If they gave me their computer for the first time and I fried it, I'd feel obligated to spend the time and money to fix it. But, there is a history, and there could be a future... I think it matters.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Bearcat, is this a crisis of conscious? Because in all honesty you owe nothing.

[chiefsnorth]

It was in your custody and I think the buyer should be able to expect that reasonable precautions like surge protection when an electrical storm was moving through the area would be taken.

In all honesty, the smart entrepreneur would have replaced and installed it for free. If you jam a customer for $100 you are completwly foolish in risking all his lines of business forever along with all possibls referrals you could parlay this into. This is an opportunity to cheaply amaze someone with great service. Do it.

[Bugeater]

It was in your custody and I think the buyer should be able to expect that reasonable precautions like surge protection when an electrical storm was moving through the area would be taken.

In all honesty, the smart entrepreneur would have replaced and installed it for free. If you jam a customer for $100 you are completwly foolish in risking all his lines of business forever along with all possibls referrals you could parlay this into. This is an opportunity to cheaply amaze someone with great service. Do it.
You using words like "buyer" and "customer" makes me think you did not comprehend the story.

[Bearcat]

I've done countless hours of free/reduced cost tech support.

If I were in your situation, i'd charge them for the part, but install it for free. That way you aren't out any $$$ and only time.

That's my opinion... it's a crappy situation, and of course the gray area between business and friends is the main problem. Earlier I said if I paid for the motherboard, I'd guarantee I'd never offer support again, but I think I'm scratching the "if I pay for the MB" part... like others have said, it might be a good chance to let it go completely.

I'm still waiting for BC to state whether he was in fact using any surge protector at all. This part of the last statement is leading me to think no?

It was... I said "even when" because I've lost a couple that were on surge protectors... so, not to say it's pointless to use one, I don't really think it matters in this situation.

[chief52]

That's my opinion... it's a crappy situation, and of course the gray area between business and friends is the main problem. Earlier I said if I paid for the motherboard, I'd guarantee I'd never offer support again, but I think I'm scratching the "if I pay for the MB" part... like others have said, it might be a good chance to let it go completely.



It was... I said "even when" because I've lost a couple that were on surge protectors... so, not to say it's pointless to use one, I don't really think it matters in this situation.

How do you know there was a "power surge"? Was anything else fried in the house? Is your electical box ok? Any other damage in the area. Not saying it did not happen, it is just extremely rare. I work for the power company. We hear about "power surges" all the time. Extremely rare occurance no matter the weather. Usually an open nuetral is required to fry things.

[Bearcat]

Bearcat, is this a crisis of conscious? Because in all honesty you owe nothing.

Yeah, mostly... I completely understand it from a business perspective, which is bugging me (well, and like Baby Lee said, legally it is on me).

It's bugging me because I actually stopped working on it for a while because of the storms, it's just that more popped up when I plugged it in later. And if I had all weekend to work on it, or could just hold onto it a few more days, I might have just held off for the night.... but, those weren't the circumstances.

[unlurking]

Your opinion is well put, and the reason I'm torn is because I basically see both sides the way you do. If I was the PC owner though, I wouldn't be disappointed.... I've lost electronics that were on surge protectors before due to power outages or surges; it does happen.

If I was a business owner, I would be embarrassed, and it would be on me to do whatever it took, time and money, to return the PC in working condition.... as a favor for someone, it's a bit fuzzy. I still feel obligated to do something, but not be out time and $70+.

I see your point on whether past support is relevant, but I think it is... there's a difference between a first time impression and screwing up at the first chance you get. If they gave me their computer for the first time and I fried it, I'd feel obligated to spend the time and money to fix it. But, there is a history, and there could be a future... I think it matters.
That makes sense, depending on what you value most, you can justify either answer. My question would be "what does there could be a future... mean?" With just the amount of information provided so far, and my own past (and unfortunately sometimes present) experiences with free tech support, I have to infer a lot here.

I hated doing "free support" for people outside the very closest of friends and family. I did it for years, and finally started telling people I just didn't have time anymore. I had "friends" I would hear from only for tech support. That shit gets real old, real quick. I would love paying for this mistake by simply telling the person I'll fix it, but can't afford to do this stuff for free anymore.

But by mentioning "future", I'm guessing this person means more to you? What are you getting out of this relationship? Besides hours of wasted time and effort? Your not getting paid, you mention that you have a long history of being a tool (feel like you're being used?), and your reply to the comment about only providing support to best friends and close family was "yeah" (implying in my mind this person isn't a close friend).

If I had to guess, you're hoping for something from the end user you're not likely to get. It sounds to me like you are being used if you really have put that much effort into it. Is she that hot?

:D

OK, maybe I'm inferring to much!

[Valiant]

You got your self a nice little problem there..

I assume this is your friend, since that is why you do so much for free.. If so they should have no problem paying for the motherboard after all you have done over the years.. If they do tell them fine, from here on out I am charging like a normal IT person..

If it is not a friend, why in the fuck were you doing shit for free.. They have been taking advantage of your kindness for a while now.. Your are going to have a harder time with them paying for your mistake even if you have been providing thousands of dollars worth of free support..

The hardest part is going for you to explain all the work you have done in the past for free and now get stuck paying to fix it..

I just think it will be less hassle for you to pay for it.. And learn your lesson and have them start paying even if it cheaper then geek squad with a signed contract..


I might have missed it, but did you have it hooked up to a surge or power block so it did not get zapped?

[unlurking]

It was... I said "even when" because I've lost a couple that were on surge protectors... so, not to say it's pointless to use one, I don't really think it matters in this situation.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

[Valiant]

How do you know there was a "power surge"? Was anything else fried in the house? Is your electical box ok? Any other damage in the area. Not saying it did not happen, it is just extremely rare. I work for the power company. We hear about "power surges" all the time. Extremely rare occurance no matter the weather. Usually an open nuetral is required to fry things.

I think he already told them about it... Or I would say, yeah shit happens it just quit working... Which sometimes happens..

[unlurking]

You got your self a nice little problem there..

I assume this is your friend, since that is why you do so much for free.. If so they should have no problem paying for the motherboard after all you have done over the years.. If they do tell them fine, from here on out I am charging like a normal IT person..

If it is not a friend, why in the fuck were you doing shit for free.. They have been taking advantage of your kindness for a while now.. Your are going to have a harder time with them paying for your mistake even if you have been providing thousands of dollars worth of free support..

The hardest part is going for you to explain all the work you have done in the past for free and now get stuck paying to fix it..

I just think it will be less hassle for you to pay for it.. And learn your lesson and have them start paying even if it cheaper then geek squad with a signed contract..


I might have missed it, but did you have it hooked up to a surge or power block so it did not get zapped?

I'm on the same page you are. Excellent point about trying to justify past work.

[Bearcat]

How do you know there was a "power surge"? Was anything else fried in the house? Is your electical box ok? Any other damage in the area. Not saying it did not happen, it is just extremely rare. I work for the power company. We hear about "power surges" all the time. Extremely rare occurance no matter the weather. Usually an open nuetral is required to fry things.

The lightning and a strange pop from the PC/outlet area. Everything else in the apartment is fine and I'm not aware of any other problems. I don't know if it's officially a 'power surge', but I'd put it in the 'act of god' category.

[Bearcat]

That makes sense, depending on what you value most, you can justify either answer. My question would be "what does there could be a future... mean?" With just the amount of information provided so far, and my own past (and unfortunately sometimes present) experiences with free tech support, I have to infer a lot here.

I hated doing "free support" for people outside the very closest of friends and family. I did it for years, and finally started telling people I just didn't have time anymore. I had "friends" I would hear from only for tech support. That shit gets real old, real quick. I would love paying for this mistake by simply telling the person I'll fix it, but can't afford to do this stuff for free anymore.

But by mentioning "future", I'm guessing this person means more to you? What are you getting out of this relationship? Besides hours of wasted time and effort? Your not getting paid, you mention that you have a long history of being a tool (feel like you're being used?), and your reply to the comment about only providing support to best friends and close family was "yeah" (implying in my mind this person isn't a close friend).

If I had to guess, you're hoping for something from the end user you're not likely to get. It sounds to me like you are being used if you really have put that much effort into it. Is she that hot?

:D

OK, maybe I'm inferring to much!

LOL... "there could be a future" means from tech support. I'm the only IT person they know, and I've helped them several times in the past, and this is the first problem that's come up. If they're not willing to pay $70 for the hardware while I've already offered to do the work, it's guaranteed they'll have to find someone else to do it for free or start paying. The thing is, I really don't mind helping, as most people don't... I don't think they've taken advantage of the situation up to this point, but assuming that I'm paying for this would be stretching it, IMO.

The "yeah" was regarding "This is why you dont give free tech support"... not necessarily to only friends and family. This person is a pretty close friend, FWIW. I said "yeah", because I've mentioned this to a couple of people at work, who are quick to say "that's why I don't help people with their shit".... heh.

[unlurking]

hahahaha!

OK, much better!

Personally, I wouldn't hold my breath for any future returns in less it's just maintaining your friendship. If someone is used to getting something free, they're not going to all of a sudden turn around and start paying for it. Need to set some more formal boundaries in regards to your support liabilities. If the person is a close friend, you should easily be able to discuss a comfortable arrangement.

[Bearcat]

You got your self a nice little problem there..

I assume this is your friend, since that is why you do so much for free.. If so they should have no problem paying for the motherboard after all you have done over the years.. If they do tell them fine, from here on out I am charging like a normal IT person..

If it is not a friend, why in the **** were you doing shit for free.. They have been taking advantage of your kindness for a while now.. Your are going to have a harder time with them paying for your mistake even if you have been providing thousands of dollars worth of free support..

The hardest part is going for you to explain all the work you have done in the past for free and now get stuck paying to fix it..

I just think it will be less hassle for you to pay for it.. And learn your lesson and have them start paying even if it cheaper then geek squad with a signed contract..


I might have missed it, but did you have it hooked up to a surge or power block so it did not get zapped?

Yeah, we're pretty close friends, which is one reason I'm kind of surprised that it seemed assumed that I'd pay for all of it (but, this was over the phone for all of 5 minutes, so there wasn't time to work that out... I'm going to do a little research on costs, and then have that talk later).

I agree, it would be less of a hassle if I paid for it... it's just that I really don't mind doing stuff as I find time, and I'd hate for them (or anyone) to end up at Geek Squad spending $200 for something I (or any IT person) could do in a couple of hours.... and if I end up being out $70+, that's what is going to happen.

It was on a surge protector.... we had tornado sirens go off around 2:30 when I was at work. That stuff passed, I started working on it later, unplugged it when more storms showed up, then started working on it later after those had passed.

[MadMax]

Yeah, mostly... I completely understand it from a business perspective, which is bugging me (well, and like Baby Lee said, legally it is on me).

It's bugging me because I actually stopped working on it for a while because of the storms, it's just that more popped up when I plugged it in later. And if I had all weekend to work on it, or could just hold onto it a few more days, I might have just held off for the night.... but, those weren't the circumstances.



I've had friends do minor stuff for me for free, but I insist on paying for their work mostly and they always give me a good deal. Plus I trust them more than someone I don't know. I believe in paying for someones hard work....

[Bearcat]

hahahaha!

OK, much better!

Personally, I wouldn't hold my breath for any future returns in less it's just maintaining your friendship. If someone is used to getting something free, they're not going to all of a sudden turn around and start paying for it. Need to set some more formal boundaries in regards to your support liabilities. If the person is a close friend, you should easily be able to discuss a comfortable arrangement.

I agree... I'll know more later when I have more time to talk to them.... maybe they'll end up offering to pay for it, and I'm sure we can come to an agreement for the future so it's not a simple "no" on tech support. Maybe I can tell them that I'm going to start charging in the future, and when they say okay I'll tell them their next appointment is free if they would just pay for the motherboard. :)

[unlurking]

How much does Geek Squad charge? I haven't done support since the mid 90's, so really have no clue what going rates are. How many hours a month do you provide free support to people?

[Bearcat]

How much does Geek Squad charge? I haven't done support since the mid 90's, so really have no clue what going rates are. How many hours a month do you provide free support to people?

I don't do a whole lot... seems like some months it'll be maybe 20 hours, then I won't do anything for a couple months. It's mostly malware issues, iTunes, other software problems... I'm not much of a hardware person.

Geek Squad is ridiculous...
http://www.geeksquad.com/services/content.aspx?id=2155&menu_id=537

Virus & Spyware Removal (Diagnose and Repair)
Online Support [?] :
$149.99
Connect Now
In-Store Support [?] find a store :
$199.99
In-Home / In-Office Support :
$299.99


Software Install
Online Support [?] :
$49.99
Connect Now
In-Store Support [?] find a store :
$29.99
In-Home / In-Office Support [?] :
$129.99

It says "Software repair pricing starts at $199.99. Hardware repair/upgrades start at $29.99.", but nothing about anything more advanced than printers and ipods.

From what I've heard, local shops are about 50% of Geek Squad prices... and I know a guy who started his own business advertising just that.

[Buck]

The problem is there is no way to prove to them that this happened because of a Power Surge, and if you are going to be doing this at your house, you should have a UPS just in case. You can get a good one for around $200, and if you are doing this a lot it is worth it to cover your ass.

[007]

Geek Squad prices are insane. I would feel like I am ripping off the consumer at even half their price.

[MTG#10]

Why? If you drop off your car to a mechanic buddy's house so he can fix something on it for free, and while it's parked there a thunderstorm rolls through and blows a tree over onto it, are you going to expect him to replace it for you? I guess not if it was a good friend. Thats a little different than this situation though, a tree blowing over in a storm would be obvious...a computer not powering on anymore could be a lot more possibilities than a power surge. But you're right, if they are true friends they should believe his story of what happened and not expect him to pay.

[Bugeater]

I guess not if it was a good friend. Thats a little different than this situation though, a tree blowing over in a storm would be obvious...a computer not powering on anymore could be a lot more possibilities than a power surge. But you're right, if they are true friends they should believe his story of what happened and not expect him to pay.
True, it may not have been a power surge, something else may have gone bad in the PC while he had it, the storms may have simply been a coincidence. But either way, in situations like this I feel the 'Good Samaritan' law should apply. Unless they demonstrate gross negligence people shouldn't be held responsible for shit that goes wrong when they're trying to help you out.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

can you get a used Mobo?

[crossbow]

I tell people that if I work on it for free then there are no guarantees. If i get paid to service it then I will pay for any damage that occured while it was in my possession. By the way, I quit fixing stuff for free years ago after people started calling me at 11:00 o'clock at night and at dinner time or when ever it was convenient for them regardless of the interuption to my personal life.

[Phobia]

If your friend can't see the solution to this problem and fork out $70 for a new mobo then maybe your friend isn't as good a friend as you think. It's sad that some friendships dissolve over money but sometimes the loss is money well-spent.

[Silock]

If it were me, and I had it plugged in and it fucked up during a lightning storm, you better believe I'd replace it on my own dime. I don't think it's a matter of the other friend being good enough to replace it himself, but me being a good enough friend to him to replace it on my own. And that's including the free tech support I'd been giving him.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I was in a similar situation a while back. A friend of mine wanted smen from his boar so I went over to collect the stuff. About half way in , the boar fell off dead as hell. Heart attack I suppose. I had collected enough for him to breed three or four sows so I gave him his stuff and left. Now he never asked me to pay for his boar and I wouldn't have so we're still friends. But I ain't jackin his livestock no more!

[Simply Red]

Yes, I swapped out power supplies, and don't see any blown capacitors... I'll probably get a second opinion or do some more work on it, but I'm pretty sure it's the motherboard.

let me know if you need help finding one for cheap.

-R

[Simply Red]

I tell people that if I work on it for free then there are no guarantees. If i get paid to service it then I will pay for any damage that occured while it was in my possession. By the way, I quit fixing stuff for free years ago after people started calling me at 11:00 o'clock at night and at dinner time or when ever it was convenient for them regardless of the interuption to my personal life.

Yes, I know. The techs at my last job complained about that. I bought him a 'No I won't fix your computer' tee-shirt. lol

[Phobia]

If it were me, and I had it plugged in and it ****ed up during a lightning storm, you better believe I'd replace it on my own dime. I don't think it's a matter of the other friend being good enough to replace it himself, but me being a good enough friend to him to replace it on my own. And that's including the free tech support I'd been giving him.

The difference is that the other friend has been benefiting from free support for years. If Bearcat had been in it for the profit I absolutely agree. But if you're getting pro bono work, you get what you pay for.

I borrowed my neighbor's tiller a couple years ago. Dropped it off the back of my truck and broke it. The tiller was at least 20 years old. But I bought him a new one that was at least twice as good. I understand how to treat friends and responsibility. The rules change when the guy has been reaping the benefit of Bearcat's generosity for years.

[BigRock]

The rules change when the guy has been reaping the benefit of Bearcat's generosity for years.

If we're going to operate under the premise that the other guy is a dubious shitheel who does literally nothing in return for Bearcat's generosity -- and, in fact, that their whole "friendship" might simply be a farce he perpetrates so that he can sit back and cackle with glee while Bearcat saves him from tech support fees -- then I have no argument with any of this.

But if that isn't the case, Bearcat broke his friend's computer and should pay for it.

[Bearcat]

If we're going to operate under the premise that the other guy is a dubious shitheel who does literally nothing in return for Bearcat's generosity -- and, in fact, that their whole "friendship" might simply be a farce he perpetrates so that he can sit back and cackle with glee while Bearcat saves him from tech support fees -- then I have no argument with any of this.

But if that isn't the case, Bearcat broke his friend's computer and should pay for it.

I don't think it matters (and no, that's not the case)... if that were true, I wouldn't have bothered creating the thread (or it would have been in the form of a rant and not a question).

If I thought it was negligence on my part, there's no question I'd pay for it.... but hell, even the power company guy in this thread said power surges are pretty rare... and contrary to some posts, I've said numerous times that I wasn't simply working on the computer through a lighting storm. If you're one to unplug everything when it rains, then go ahead and say I screwed up and should pay for it.... but if you're a big risk taker like me and use electronics even when it rains, I'm missing your point.

In the end, I don't really care what's on the memo line... I like working on computers, I don't mind helping others, and I would rather help someone for free than see them spend $200 at Geek Squad.... but, when it starts costing me money, there's a problem, and if it costs me money this time, there won't be a next time.... so, that's what it comes down to -- the cost of a motherboard versus the cost of future tech support -- and I'll find out in the next day or two which one they're going to choose.

[-King-]

If it were me, and I had it plugged in and it fucked up during a lightning storm, you better believe I'd replace it on my own dime. I don't think it's a matter of the other friend being good enough to replace it himself, but me being a good enough friend to him to replace it on my own. And that's including the free tech support I'd been giving him.

This. It was in his possession and he chose to plug it in even though he knew he shouldnt have.

The whole "Ive always gave him tech help for free" thing is just a cheap copout.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bugeater]

Jesus christ, I can't even believe some of the responses in this thread. It's enough to make me think twice about helping anyone out with anything ever again.

[BigRock]

If I thought it was negligence on my part, there's no question I'd pay for it.... but hell, even the power company guy in this thread said power surges are pretty rare... and contrary to some posts, I've said numerous times that I wasn't simply working on the computer through a lighting storm. If you're one to unplug everything when it rains, then go ahead and say I screwed up and should pay for it.... but if you're a big risk taker like me and use electronics even when it rains, I'm missing your point.

My point is that your friend gave you a working computer, and all you can give back to him is a large paperweight.

I appriciate the things you're saying. But I wouldn't take posession of something from a friend and return it in worse shape than I got it, no matter what the circumstances. And I wouldn't jam up a friend of mine for nearly $100 because of something he had nothing to do with.

I'd bite the bullet, consider it a lesson learned, and take the opportunity to work out some kind of agreement with him for future work. I'd explain that, from now on, I can't be paying for parts if some freak thing happens while I have posession of it.

And by now, you probably know that you should have done that from the beginning. Which means you know that, at the root of the issue, is a mistake you made in judgment. From there, the logical leap should be made that it isn't cool to be charging a friend because you didn't do something you should have.

[-King-]

Jesus christ, I can't even believe some of the responses in this thread. It's enough to make me think twice about helping anyone out with anything ever again.

If you agree to fix an item for someone and something happens to that item, why the hell should you not be at fault? That "well i was doing it for free" argument is bullshit. If you wanted compensation, then you should have asked before starting to work on it.

I mean what did the owner of the computer do wrong? Why should he have to pay for the motherboard?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bearcat]

Jesus christ, I can't even believe some of the responses in this thread. It's enough to make me think twice about helping anyone out with anything ever again.

I really wasn't sure how the poll results would go... the first ~6 votes for 'the owner should pay for all of it' happened before I clarified the PC was in my possession, and a couple have said they would change their vote... so it's a little closer than the current 17-9.... the people who disagree seem to either be looking at it from a purely business perspective (which I can agree with... if I was Geek Squad, there's no question it would be replaced out of my pocket), or from a first-time/one-time transaction perspective (but, I think the history & potential future play a role).


My point is that your friend gave you a working computer, and all you can give back to him is a large paperweight.

I appriciate the things you're saying. But I wouldn't take posession of something from a friend and return it in worse shape than I got it, no matter what the circumstances. And I wouldn't jam up a friend of mine for nearly $100 because of something he had nothing to do with.

I'd bite the bullet, consider it a lesson learned, and take the opportunity to work out some kind of agreement with him for future work. I'd explain that, from now on, I can't be paying for parts if some freak thing happens while I have posession of it.

And by now, you probably know that you should have done that from the beginning. Which means you know that, at the root of the issue, is a mistake you made in judgment. From there, the logical leap should be made that it isn't cool to be charging a friend because you didn't do something you should have.

It's not that I disagree with this logic, and again, I've never considered giving it back to them as-is, fried.

Again, my plan the entire time was to help them find a motherboard and replace it for free, partly because I'll have to finish the original work anyway.

If you agree to fix an item for someone and something happens to that item, why the hell should you not be at fault? That "well i was doing it for free" argument is bullshit. If you wanted compensation, then you should have asked before starting to work on it.

I mean what did the owner of the computer do wrong? Why should he have to pay for the motherboard?


Of course they didn't do anything to deserve paying for it, but I don't think it was gross negligence on my part, either.... and when it starts costing me money, it's a problem. The argument isn't really that I was doing it for free (that's part of it though)... the main issue is that it's now costing me money to work on their stuff, and $70 now will save them money down the road.

If they took it somewhere to get the motherboard replaced, they would be charged at least twice as much for the labor + parts, so I think it's a good compromise for an accident. There are definitely circumstances that warrant me taking care of all of it, which is why I've been torn from the beginning, but given all the information and from replies in this thread, I still don't think this is one of them.

[Bugeater]

If you agree to fix an item for someone and something happens to that item, why the hell should you not be at fault? That "well i was doing it for free" argument is bullshit. If you wanted compensation, then you should have asked before starting to work on it.

I mean what did the owner of the computer do wrong? Why should he have to pay for the motherboard?
Posted via Mobile Device
Because shit fucking happens, that's why.

[Saulbadguy]

I thought of a scenario that made me re-affirm my position:

Let's say I leave my car at an autobody shop to get work done on my vehicle. Over the course of a couple days, their lot where they keep my vehicle gets broken in to, and someone smashes my car windows. The security on the lot is fairly minimal, just a fence with some barbed wire, and a gate with a lock.

I would not expect the shop to pay for the windows. I would expect they give me a break on labor since it happened on their premises.

[Phobia]

If you agree to fix an item for someone and something happens to that item, why the hell should you not be at fault? That "well i was doing it for free" argument is bullshit. If you wanted compensation, then you should have asked before starting to work on it.

I mean what did the owner of the computer do wrong? Why should he have to pay for the motherboard?
Posted via Mobile Device

The owner of the computer did nothing wrong except continually take advantage of Bearcat's generosity. If it Bearcat were asking for money to put into his pocket to fix it, I would understand any outrage. But he's just asking for the owner to pay for the part and he'll fix it for free. That's not unreasonable. This isn't a "for profit" venture for him. But it's certainly not a privilege for which he should be expected to dip into his own pocket. The owner could expect to spend $250 or more for this repair if it weren't for Bearcat so he's really getting a great deal.

In fact, Bearcat - I'd let him go look around at fixing it on his own. I'll bet his tune changes quickly.

[Phobia]

I thought of a scenario that made me re-affirm my position:

Let's say I leave my car at an autobody shop to get work done on my vehicle. Over the course of a couple days, their lot where they keep my vehicle gets broken in to, and someone smashes my car windows. The security on the lot is fairly minimal, just a fence with some barbed wire, and a gate with a lock.

I would not expect the shop to pay for the windows. I would expect they give me a break on labor since it happened on their premises.

Bad example. The shop should pay but they're also making a lot of money from your repair and you have a reasonable expectation of security leaving your car there.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I thought of a scenario that made me re-affirm my position:

Let's say I leave my car at an autobody shop to get work done on my vehicle. Over the course of a couple days, their lot where they keep my vehicle gets broken in to, and someone smashes my car windows. The security on the lot is fairly minimal, just a fence with some barbed wire, and a gate with a lock.

I would not expect the shop to pay for the windows. I would expect they give me a break on labor since it happened on their premises.

Most shops have signs posted stating they hold no liability for vehicles on the property being damaged, broken into, etc.

So you shouldn't expect then to pay for the windows.

[Saulbadguy]

Most shops have signs posted stating they hold no liability for vehicles on the property being damaged, broken into, etc.

So you shouldn't expect then to pay for the windows.

I understand that, i'd pay for the windows. I'd want them to give me a break on labor rates though to install them.

[Bugeater]

Most shops have signs posted stating they hold no liability for vehicles on the property being damaged, broken into, etc.

So you shouldn't expect then to pay for the windows.
While that's true, I certainly wouldn't leave my vehicle at any business that couldn't assure me that it would be secure.

[OnTheWarpath15]

While that's true, I certainly wouldn't leave my vehicle at any business that couldn't assure me that it would be secure.

I agree.

[Vegas_Dave]

If you had been working on it at their home, then no. But you were wiring on it at your home which they trusted to you. Regardless of whether you were beng paid for it or not, you should have taken proper steps while working on it. So as a technician and a businessman who runs a repair facility in another industry, I would have to say you should be buying replacement parts.

Also remember that of you are good at something, never do it for free. Friendships will always come back to bite you in these situations

[jspchief]

There's actually a simple win-win solution.

Plant some kiddie pron on his hard drive and call the cops on him. He'll have more pressing things to worry about than a fried Mobo.

[kepp]

I didn't read all the posts, but I can't believe any one actually chose either of the first two options in the poll. How on earth could a power surge from a storm be the tech's fault?

[Iowanian]

If you were a friend helping me out, I'd never let you pay for the parts for that, or probably for your time in the first place. It's above and beyond "helping a friend" for me.

If you were doing it professionally, I'd expect it to come back working with the problems it entered your shop with corrected for the fee. Sometimes as a business I have to eat expenses and it's just the way things go to keep clients happy.

Move closer to Iowania please, i'd like to take advantage of your free IT services....

[DaFace]

I didn't read all the posts, but I can't believe any one actually chose either of the first two options in the poll. How on earth could a power surge from a storm be the tech's fault?

If he hadn't taken the proper precautions (surge protector at a minimum, unplugging even better) then it would definitely be the tech's fault. I won't argue otherwise.

What I'd argue is that a guy helping you out for free shouldn't be held liable if things go wrong. For example, if a friend is helping you move (for free), and he drops a lamp, I can't imagine anyone asking him to pay for it. However, if a professional moving company drops a lamp, they'd better pay for it.

As I mentioned earlier, if they want Bearcat for pay for the parts and put in the labor, that's fine, but they would essentially be treating him as a for-profit repair shop. If that's the case, they should in turn be treated accordingly the next time they need help.

[-King-]

The owner of the computer did nothing wrong except continually take advantage of Bearcat's generosity.
Has bearcat ever mentioned to the owner that he didn't like doing it for free? If not, then it's not taking advantage of. From what I see, if Bearcat asks for the owner to give him some money or buy him food, then the owner does that, so lets not act like Bearcat can't get any money if he really wanted to.

If it Bearcat were asking for money to put into his pocket to fix it, I would understand any outrage. But he's just asking for the owner to pay for the part and he'll fix it for free. That's not unreasonable. This isn't a "for profit" venture for him. But it's certainly not a privilege for which he should be expected to dip into his own pocket. The owner could expect to spend $250 or more for this repair if it weren't for Bearcat so he's really getting a great deal.

So? Bearcat accepted the computer. It fucked up even worse while it was in his possession...why should the owner have to pay for the part? It wasn't broken when he took it to Bearcat's house.

He's the one who left the computer plugged in during the storm. Its like if you're fixing someones car and you roll the windows down and it rains. Are you going to refuse to fix the interior just because it was "an act of God"?

[MOhillbilly]

if the service is free and they dont have a surge protector thats worth a shit, its on them. Act of god.

Wouldnt even blink.

[-King-]

if the service is free and they dont have a surge protector thats worth a shit, its on them. Act of god.

Wouldnt even blink.

The computer was fixed at Bearcats house...not the computer owner's hosue.

[MOhillbilly]

The computer was fixed at Bearcats house...not the computer owner's hosue.

should have sent the surge protector with. A good one is in-line for a reason at all times and is the owners responsibility to make sure it goes with.
Now once its on site its bearcats responsibility to make sure everything is in order once service begins.(if its a paying customer)

Now if said customer just sent the CPU and nothing else, its on them.

We replaced a shitton of boards before the heads decided it would be cheaper to send out good gaurenteed surge protectors with every new item.
We dont eat cost on boards anymore because of this.


Like i said i wouldnt even blink.

[-King-]

should have sent the surge protector with. A good one is in-line for a reason at all times and is the owners responsibility to make sure it goes with.
Now once its on site its bearcats responsibility to make sure everything is in order once service begins.(if its a paying customer)

Now if said customer just sent the CPU and nothing else, its on them.

We replaced a shitton of boards before the heads decided it would be cheaper to send out good gaurenteed surge protectors with every new item.
We dont eat cost on boards anymore because of this.


Like i said i wouldnt even blink.

Who the hell brings the surge protector when they're getting their electronics fixed?

[MOhillbilly]

Who the hell brings the surge protector when they're getting their electronics fixed?

any idea what a good surge protector costs retail?

[Fish]

Has bearcat ever mentioned to the owner that he didn't like doing it for free? If not, then it's not taking advantage of. From what I see, if Bearcat asks for the owner to give him some money or buy him food, then the owner does that, so lets not act like Bearcat can't get any money if he really wanted to.



So? Bearcat accepted the computer. It fucked up even worse while it was in his possession...why should the owner have to pay for the part? It wasn't broken when he took it to Bearcat's house.

He's the one who left the computer plugged in during the storm. Its like if you're fixing someones car and you roll the windows down and it rains. Are you going to refuse to fix the interior just because it was "an act of God"?

I'm glad I don't have any friends with that kind of selfish attitude. I'd never touch anything they own.

[Saulbadguy]

Has bearcat ever mentioned to the owner that he didn't like doing it for free? If not, then it's not taking advantage of. From what I see, if Bearcat asks for the owner to give him some money or buy him food, then the owner does that, so lets not act like Bearcat can't get any money if he really wanted to.



So? Bearcat accepted the computer. It fucked up even worse while it was in his possession...why should the owner have to pay for the part? It wasn't broken when he took it to Bearcat's house.

He's the one who left the computer plugged in during the storm. Its like if you're fixing someones car and you roll the windows down and it rains. Are you going to refuse to fix the interior just because it was "an act of God"?

What line of business are you in?

[-King-]

I'm glad I don't have any friends with that kind of selfish attitude. I'd never touch anything they own.

I unlike the owner of computer, would have paid Bearcat even if he didn't ask. I've always been like that. But I can understand how some people think that just because they're not asked to pay, that they don't have to.

[-King-]

What line of business are you in?

Chiefs planet poster.

[QuikSsurfer]

If I am repairing somebody elses computer and that happens on my watch, I would feel that it is my responsibility to repair it. The computer was entrusted to me.

Of course, I wouldn't have had the thing plugged in during a thunderstorm either.

This

[Bearcat]

Good news: It was the motherboard. I bought one on eBay because I was sure that was it.... ;)

More good news: They're paying for for the hardware. So, I'm just out the extra time spent dealing with it, which is fine with me, even if it's been a busy week on top of it.


Now to spend the evening fixing the original problem -- er... <checks weather.com>..... yes, this evening. :clap: