Jackson has a sprained MCL?

[Mr. Laz]

Chiefs Injury Report: O'Callaghan Limited, Jackson Doesn't Practice (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/9/15/1691511/chiefs-injury-report-ocallaghan)

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/240996/headshot_tiny.jpg by Joel Thorman (http://www.sbnation.com/users/Joel%20Thorman) on Sep 15, 2010 4:33 PM PDT (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/9/15/1691511/chiefs-injury-report-ocallaghan) in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/section/2010-campaign) http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/icons/comment.v8c9bafb.png 6 comments
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/580020/70535_aptopix_chargers_chiefs_football.jpg (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/chiefs-injury-report-ocallaghan) More photos » (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/chiefs-injury-report-ocallaghan) Ed Zurga - AP

Browse more photos » (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/photos/chiefs-injury-report-ocallaghan)

The Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/kansas-city-chiefs) have released their practice report for Sunday's game against the Cleveland Browns (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/cleveland-browns). There aren't many surprises on the list.


DE Tyson Jackson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71422/Tyson_Jackson) (knee) - Did not participate
This was expected as Nick Wright of 610 Sports (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/9/15/1691284/chiefs-de-tyson-jackson-reportedly) has reported that Jackson has a sprained MCL and is not expected to play on Sunday.
DE Wallace Gilberry (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34822/Wallace_Gilberry) (back) - Limited participation
We're not sure what's up with him but, with Jackson potentially out, the Chiefs need all the defensive ends they can get.
LB Tamba Hali (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2371/Tamba_Hali) (foot) - Limited participation
He had his foot wrapped during Monday night's game but still managed a half sack. I imagine the Chiefs are just taking it easy with him at this point.
RT Ryan O'Callaghan (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1694/Ryan_O) (groin) - Limited participation
It's good news to see him practicing after struggling through this groin injury. The Chiefs could use him on Sunday.

[ChiefsCountry]

MCL is about a two week injury.

[Dante84]

I think its a 1 or 2 week injury. Cassel had this last year if i'm not mistaken

[Priest31kc]

If Gilberry's out too, Magee is going to have to step his shit up.

[the Talking Can]

doesn't hali have a history with foot problems?

[chiefzilla1501]

MCL is about a two week injury.

Yup. I would be shocked if he played in either of the next 2 games.

Might as well sit him next week and San Fran and then give him the extra bye week to slowly work his way back.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Injury or not, Hali seems like a step away from being like a Dwight Freeney. He's solid, but that's it. I wish we had a dominate pass rusher.

[ChiefsCountry]

Injury or not, Hali seems like a step away from being like a Dwight Freeney. He's solid, but that's it. I wish we had a dominate pass rusher.

Hali is a number 2 guy. We still need a stud pass rusher and QB to take the next step.

[Rausch]

Hali is a number 2 guy. We still need a stud pass rusher and QB to take the next step.

Yup.

[BossChief]

Should be interesting to see if he keeps that fire we saw on MNF after he returns.

I had high hoes for Magee when we drafted him and thought it was a good pick, time to see how far he has come since then. Kid was a damn good player in college. My guess is that the Browns will run at him till he proves he can stack and hold the point...we will all know by the end of the first quarter if we are in for another game like last year (when we were missing Dorsey in his second year) or if Magee is a player that can do the job.

[chiefzilla1501]

Injury or not, Hali seems like a step away from being like a Dwight Freeney. He's solid, but that's it. I wish we had a dominate pass rusher.

I'm curious to see how Hali plays if Toribio actually starts taking on some blockers and Studebaker actually gets some push off the other edge.

Too many times I've seen Hali miss a sack by a fraction of an inch because the QB was able to move away from the pressure. I feel like with just average help around him, he could easily put up 10+ sacks. I also want to see how he does on Sunday in better conditions. Pass rushing is one of the toughest things to do when the conditions get sloppy because it's so difficult to plant and change direction.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Hali is a number 2 guy. We still need a stud pass rusher and QB to take the next step.
Definitely. Hali is like the little engine that could but...can't lol. He never gets there in time, or at least most of the time. He's always a step away from actually sacking the QB. Pressure is good, don't get me wrong, but we need the sack and/or strip along with that. We need a game changer.

[BossChief]

Halis problem isnt planting and changing direction, those are his strengths even in bad conditions...his problem is (like Ive said over and over and you just said) the players around him give too many places for quarterbacks to escape and almost equally important is his lack of closing speed and his abnormally short arms.

He is a solid ROLB that can start on a playoff winning team, but people wont see that until Studebaker takes the field on a more consistent basis. Just watch.

[chiefzilla1501]

Should be interesting to see if he keeps that fire we saw on MNF after he returns.

I had high hoes for Magee when we drafted him and thought it was a good pick, time to see how far he has come since then. Kid was a damn good player in college. My guess is that the Browns will run at him till he proves he can stack and hold the point...we will all know by the end of the first quarter if we are in for another game like last year (when we were missing Dorsey in his second year) or if Magee is a player that can do the job.

Well, the good news is we have Shaun Smith. And I thought he played the run well against San Diego. I can't imagine Romeo is going to put Gilberry out there as a 3-4 DE. I wonder if you might also see Romeo run a bit more out of an untraditional 4-3, with Gilberry, Edwards, Shaun Smith, and Hali as the DEs and Demorrio Williams as an additional pass rusher at LB. Remember that he's not always married to any individual scheme. And actually, our personnel isn't all that poorly suited for a 4-3 as long as we didn't run it as a base D.

[chiefzilla1501]

Halis problem isnt planting and changing direction, those are his strengths even in bad conditions...his problem is (like Ive said over and over and you just said) the players around him give too many places for quarterbacks to escape and almost equally important is his lack of closing speed and his abnormally short arms.

I think it's going to affect anybody. In those conditions, when you're going full speed, it's hard to do anything but a straight line. At some point in the rush, he has to turn to get to the Quarterback. I usually see him blow pretty quickly by a lot better Left Tackles. He didn't look fast against San Diego. Nobody on San Diego did either.

[BossChief]

Shaun Smith was playing like a damn beast for a big portion of the MNF game.

Played way past expectations IMHO.

We still need to draft a guy we can develop for the long term to keep both fresh during games, but for the time being I would be very pleased if he came out as the starter against the Browns.

[FAX]

Should be interesting to see if he keeps that fire we saw on MNF after he returns.

I had high hoes for Magee when we drafted him and thought it was a good pick, time to see how far he has come since then. Kid was a damn good player in college. My guess is that the Browns will run at him till he proves he can stack and hold the point...we will all know by the end of the first quarter if we are in for another game like last year (when we were missing Dorsey in his second year) or if Magee is a player that can do the job.

That all makes sense, Mr. BossChief.

But where do you get your high hoes?

FAX

[BossChief]

That all makes sense, Mr. BossChief.

But where do you get your high hoes?

FAX

Alex likes his imported hoes to be high, Mr. FAX.

Try to keep that on the "low low" please, I'm sure you understand.

ROFL

[Quesadilla Joe]

He will never be the same and most likely won't play this season./ Chiefs Planet after Clady's injury

[-King-]

He will never be the same and most likely won't play this season./ Chiefs Planet after Clady's injury

Clady allowed a sack to Tyson Alualu

Fucking owned <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_7nIugDZJ0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_7nIugDZJ0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Chiefs Pantalones]

He will never be the same and most likely won't play this season./ Chiefs Planet after Clady's injury

WWKOD

What would Kyle Orton do?

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

Clady allowed a sack to Tyson Alualu

Fucking owned <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_7nIugDZJ0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_7nIugDZJ0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I would say that is a coverage sack. Kyle Orton had five or so seconds. You can't say Clady got fucking owned.

[BossChief]

I would say that is a coverage sack. Kyle Orton had five or so seconds. You can't say Clady got fucking owned.

he was on the ground 4 seconds after the snap, watch the timer of the video.

Watch the play again, if you still say its a coverage sack and Clady didnt get downright beat on the play (that he even had help on), you dont know what you are watching.

Tyson was overdrafted ( I saw him as a 17-25th overall type talent, even in this deep draft), but he is gonna be a damn good player. I am a big fan.

[milkman]

I'm curious to see how Hali plays if Toribio actually starts taking on some blockers and Studebaker actually gets some push off the other edge.

Too many times I've seen Hali miss a sack by a fraction of an inch because the QB was able to move away from the pressure. I feel like with just average help around him, he could easily put up 10+ sacks. I also want to see how he does on Sunday in better conditions. Pass rushing is one of the toughest things to do when the conditions get sloppy because it's so difficult to plant and change direction.

That problem exists because Hali is slow.

He gets around the edge, and just about every QB can outrun him.

Rivers did it on Monday.

Think about that.

Hali was too slow to chase down Rivers.

[mcaj22]

Harrison might break his own record Sunday, this could be deja vu from a year ago

[BossChief]

That problem exists because Hali is slow.

He gets around the edge, and just about every QB can outrun him.

Rivers did it on Monday.

Think about that.

Hali was too slow to chase down Rivers.

Just know that if Shaun Smith can earn the starters role and get the kind of push he was getting against good competition on MNF and commanding the double at the same time and Studebaker can lock down the other side, quarterbacks will not be able to "just run away" or "step up in the pocket" and Hali will start being able to close out sacks more effectively.

Write it down.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

he was on the ground 4 seconds after the snap, watch the timer of the video.

Watch the play again, if you still say its a coverage sack and Clady didnt get downright beat on the play (that he even had help on), you dont know what you are watching.

Tyson was overdrafted ( I saw him as a 17-25th overall type talent, even in this deep draft), but he is gonna be a damn good player. I am a big fan.

I'm not debating the fact that he got beat but fucking owned? No. 4 seconds is a good amount of time.

[-King-]

Might as well just put Ron Edwards at DE instead of Magee. Better run stopping.

Edwards-Smith-Dorsey

[BossChief]

I'm not debating the fact that he got beat but fucking owned? No. 4 seconds is a good amount of time.

against a rookie DL in his first game, he got owned.

Tyson isnt a speed guy that will get to quarterbacks untouched when he owns them, what you saw was his version of owning a tackle.

It sure as fuck wasn't a "coverage sack"

[BossChief]

Might as well just put Ron Edwards at DE instead of Magee. Better run stopping.

Edwards-Smith-Dorsey

Dont write Magee off quite yet. If he can start playing like he did at Purdue, he can be a damn fine player. But, I agree they should give Edwards some reps at end until Tyson gets back.

[nicelife2010]

yup, he deserves it.

[BossChief]

yup, he deserves it.

Who deserves what?

Have you made a single post that made sense yet?

Please dont repond, just STFU

[Chiefs=Champions]

The starting line will be:

Dorsey, Big Suge, Smith...

[Dave Lane]

Hali is a number 2 guy. We still need a stud pass rusher and QB to take the next step.

I have to say studebaker looks like a step away Jared Allen when I see him pass rush. He's relentless.

[milkman]

The starting line will be:

Dorsey, Big Suge, Smith...

I'm assuming that "Big Suge" is Ron Edwards.

I'm not sure why people are thinking that Edwards will get any snaps at DE when he has worked exclusively NT throughout camp and the preseason, while Smith has been working at DE.

Your line makes far more sense.

[HemiEd]

This really sucks for Jackson and the Chiefs. He was showing more than he has in any other game, as a Chief, and looked like he knew what he was doing. He was making some plays, and didn't look like his mind was on some other planet.

I hate it, that this makes me think of Ryan Sims injury against the Jets, as he was showing some flashes of being a beast, then got hauled off on a cart. As we know, he didn't show anything after that.

[ModSocks]

Smith should have some extra motivation going up against the Cleavland Steamers. Same goes for Crennel.

Hell, the whole D really. A line with Dorsey, Edwards and Smith will stop the run. Getting a pass rush however....

[MOhillbilly]

LB Tamba Hali (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2371/Tamba_Hali) (foot) - Limited participation
He had his foot wrapped during Monday night's game but still managed a half sack. I imagine the Chiefs are just taking it easy with him at this point.


The ol flat foot strikes again.

[Warrior5]

Hali is a number 2 guy. We still need a stud pass rusher and QB to take the next step.

Could add a RT to the list...

[DJ's left nut]

This really sucks for Jackson and the Chiefs. He was showing more than he has in any other game, as a Chief, and looked like he knew what he was doing. He was making some plays, and didn't look like his mind was on some other planet.

I hate it, that this makes me think of Ryan Sims injury against the Jets, as he was showing some flashes of being a beast, then got hauled off on a cart. As we know, he didn't show anything after that.

, , , ,

I'm taking these with me as you're clearly working them too hard. Rest assured that I will be placing them in very good homes. I intend to donate them to one of the illiterate mouth-breathers on this board that refuses to use the damn things.

[Mr. Laz]

doesn't hali have a history with foot problems?
yes, i guess he has flat feet and it's been a problem before

[Saccopoo]

I have to say studebaker looks like a step away Jared Allen when I see him pass rush. He's relentless.

Studebaker is not a step away Jared Allen. Jesus...Studebaker is a marginal player that, after the MNF game, is a sub-marginal special teams player at best. (His total lack of awareness cost the Chiefs a touchdown.) I appreciate his effort, but he's substantially more Monte Biesel than Jared Allen. (And probably lacks Biesel's overall athleticism.)

I would say that Hali is relentless/tenacious and would probably be a better 3/4 LOLB when paired with a speedy pass rusher at the ROLB spot. The main problem with Hali's game right now is that the Chiefs don't have any push from the left side of the defensive line/LOLB and quarterbacks simply move that way when Hali pressures. Crennel was switching the LOLB and ROLB throughout the game looking to try and get pressure from either side by Hali. The problem is, there are only a very small handful of guys in the league that qualify as a true speed rush end/linebacker. Like the mythical franchise left tackle or pro bowl quarterback, you typically have to roll the dice on one of those guys very early in the draft.


It's going to be interesting to watch the CP Draft board as we get closer to the 2011 draft and see who breaks off into the pass rusher camp (a guy like Von Miller would be a godsend for this team), the wide receiver camp (Green, Jones, Floyd all look legit) and the quarterback camp (if the underclassmen declare, we are potentially looking at another 1983 type QB class).

[milkman]

Studebaker is not a step away Jared Allen. Jesus...Studebaker is a marginal player that, after the MNF game, is a sub-marginal special teams player at best. (His total lack of awareness cost the Chiefs a touchdown.) I appreciate his effort, but he's substantially more Monte Biesel than Jared Allen. (And probably lacks Biesel's overall athleticism.)

I would say that Hali is relentless/tenacious and would probably be a better 3/4 LOLB when paired with a speedy pass rusher at the ROLB spot. The main problem with Hali's game right now is that the Chiefs don't have any push from the left side of the defensive line/LOLB and quarterbacks simply move that way when Hali pressures. Crennel was switching the LOLB and ROLB throughout the game looking to try and get pressure from either side by Hali. The problem is, there are only a very small handful of guys in the league that qualify as a true speed rush end/linebacker. Like the mythical franchise left tackle or pro bowl quarterback, you typically have to roll the dice on one of those guys very early in the draft.


It's going to be interesting to watch the CP Draft board as we get closer to the 2011 draft and see who breaks off into the pass rusher camp (a guy like Von Miller would be a godsend for this team), the wide receiver camp (Green, Jones, Floyd all look legit) and the quarterback camp (if the underclassmen declare, we are potentially looking at another 1983 type QB class).

Good lord, what absolute drivel.

[Saccopoo]

Could add a RT to the list...

You could also add LT, LG and C to the list as they Chiefs still haven't properly addressed the major problems at those specific positions. Waters is old and doesn't have the explosiveness and power of days gone by. Weigmann was one of the best centers in the league but he's also old in football years. Albert, while a lot of people around here are giving him a pass, is not very good. (Go watch the MNF game again. I've watched it twice now and he's reaching and over extending himself on nearly every block and ends up completely out of position to properly seal or misdirect his assignment. He lacks the footwork and technical competency to be a top flight NFL left tackle and will most likely end up as a middle of the pack type of guy at best. In all honesty, he's an offensive line version of Matt Cassel. He's the starter at a very important position and we are all just holding our breath waiting on him to finally reach his potential but simply lacks the nuances to be even "good" at his position. The problem is, the Chiefs screwed the pooch by not addressing any of these positions in the past two drafts. Colin Brown was a supremely huge reach and Asamoah is a RG who plays the same position as another guy we just signed in Lilja. LT, RT, LG, C were completely ignored in two straight draft classes that were deemed as some of the best as they related to potential offensive line talent.)

[Saccopoo]

Good lord, what absolute drivel.

Sure. Whatever. Drivel because Studebaker is an All-Pro level player in your eyes? Tell me what he's accomplished to start receiving Jared Allen level comparisons? Other than blowing an easy block on a punter that would have resulted in a touchdown that is. Can he long snap?

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for the Pro Bowl selection for Studebaker.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

against a rookie DL in his first game, he got owned.

Tyson isnt a speed guy that will get to quarterbacks untouched when he owns them, what you saw was his version of owning a tackle.

It sure as fuck wasn't a "coverage sack"

The rookie dl thing is bs. You can't generalize every single dl. A bull rush is a bull rush. Orton could have probably stepped up in the pocket and the sack would have been avoided. Kampman probably was the reason why he didn't. Go back to sucking off Studebaker.

[DJ's left nut]

You could also add LT, LG and C to the list as they Chiefs still haven't properly addressed the major problems at those specific positions. Waters is old and doesn't have the explosiveness and power of days gone by. Weigmann was one of the best centers in the league but he's also old in football years.

Albert, while a lot of people around here are giving him a pass, is not very good. Go watch the MNF game again. I've watched it twice now and he's reaching and over extending himself on nearly every block and ends up completely out of position to properly seal or misdirect his assignment. He lacks the footwork and technical competency to be a top flight NFL left tackle and will most likely end up as a middle of the pack type of guy at best.

In all honesty, he's an offensive line version of Matt Cassel. He's the starter at a very important position and we are all just holding our breath waiting on him to finally reach his potential but simply lacks the nuances to be even "good" at his position.

The problem is, the Chiefs screwed the pooch by not addressing any of these positions in the past two drafts. Colin Brown was a supremely huge reach and Asamoah is a RG who plays the same position as another guy we just signed in Lilja. LT, RT, LG, C were completely ignored in two straight draft classes that were deemed as some of the best as they related to potential offensive line talent.)

Your mileage may very, but this would be at least one way to make your post readable.

Please give it a shot next time.

[milkman]

Sure. Whatever. Drivel because Studebaker is an All-Pro level player in your eyes? Tell me what he's accomplished to start receiving Jared Allen level comparisons? Other than blowing an easy block on a punter that would have resulted in a touchdown that is. Can he long snap?

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for the Pro Bowl selection for Studebaker.

The drivel is the comparison to Beisel.

I don't have nearly the positive view of Studebaker that others have, but that comparison to Beisel is pure unadulterated bullshit, just like every other fucking post that you make on every fucking player.


You are a complete and utter moron.

[DJ's left nut]

Good lord, what absolute drivel.

Explain.

I generally think he's a bit of an idiot, but I don't see anything unfair in that assessment.

I like Studebaker, but I'd be inclined to agree - let's slow way way way down on this Jared Allen stuff. Allen is on a borderline HOF career track, Studebaker would be lucky to have a single season as good as Allen's average season (any player would, for that matter).

If forced to choose if he's more likely to be Allen or Beisel (special teams standout, passable LBer in a pinch), I'd expect Andy to be far closer to Monty. It's just a far more reasonable expectation. He didn't say he couldn't outperform Beisel, just that he'd be closer to Beisel than Allen - I don't see how you can disagree with that. Allen's a superstar and Studebaker just isn't going to be that guy.

And as for Hali - I think he's spot on there. Hali would be phenomenal on the other side of a legit speed rusher. As it is, he's a passable primary rusher, but a little bit mis-cast as we saw on Monday when he wasn't able to solve a rookie LT.

I honestly don't see anything overtly idiotic about what he said there....for once.

[Saccopoo]

Your mileage may very, but this would be at least one way to make your post readable.

Please give it a shot next time.

Maybe I should...

Starting posting...

Hootie style...

So you can read...

These posts...

Better...

With a...

Little more line...

Breaks.

[milkman]

Explain.

I generally think he's a bit of an idiot, but I don't see anything unfair in that assessment.

I like Studebaker, but I'd be inclined to agree - let's slow way way way down on this Jared Allen stuff. Allen is on a borderline HOF career track, Studebaker would be lucky to have a single season as good as Allen's average season (any player would, for that matter).

If forced to choose if he's more likely to be Allen or Beisel (special teams standout, passable LBer in a pinch), I'd expect Andy to be far closer to Monty. It's just a far more reasonable expectation. He didn't say he couldn't outperform Beisel, just that he'd be closer to Beisel than Allen - I don't see how you can disagree with that. Allen's a superstar and Studebaker just isn't going to be that guy.

And as for Hali - I think he's spot on there. Hali would be phenomenal on the other side of a legit speed rusher. As it is, he's a passable primary rusher, but a little bit mis-cast as we saw on Monday when he wasn't able to solve a rookie LT.

I honestly don't see anything overtly idiotic about what he said there....for once.

Comparing Studebaker to Beisel is as far from the mark as comparing him to Allen.

Neither have any validity.

Beisel was not passable in a pinch.

He was a special teams player who wasn't anything special even at that.

Studebaker has been solid on special teams, one glaring mistake notwithstanding, and he is a solid role player who can contribute consistently on defense.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

None of those 3 players mentioned have body types, playing style, nor player position of the other.

But they are all white, so we've got that angle to work with.

[DJ's left nut]

Comparing Studebaker to Beisel is as far from the mark as comparing him to Allen.

Neither have any validity.

Beisel was not passable in a pinch.

He was a special teams player who wasn't anything special even at that.

Studebaker has been solid on special teams, one glaring mistake notwithstanding, and he is a solid role player who can contribute consistently on defense.

Who do you think he's more likely to be - Allen or Beisel?

C'mon, this isn't close.

Monty Besiel had a 9 year career as a special teams player. If the guy wasn't better than an average STer, he'd have been cut and replaced by a 5th round pick. Monty was a very good STer. And the man started for a season in NE at LBer. No, he wasn't very good, but he was an acceptable rotation backer.

These guys don't stick around for 9 years as marginal talents if they don't bring more to the table than you're giving Beisel credit for. He won't be remembered by anyone in 5 years, but he carved out a solid career for himself when all was said and done.

I'd give Studebaker about a 5% chance of being anywhere near Jared Allen's level. I'd give him about a 70% chance of exceeding Beisel's level, or about a 30% chance of stalling at Beisel.

So in essence, I think he's about 6 times more likely to be Monty Beisel than Jared Allen.

[Saccopoo]

Comparing Studebaker to Beisel is as far from the mark as comparing him to Allen.

Neither have any validity.

Beisel was not passable in a pinch.

He was a special teams player who wasn't anything special even at that.

Studebaker has been solid on special teams, one glaring mistake notwithstanding, and he is a solid role player who can contribute consistently on defense.

Whoa! Slow down there Nelly. Beisel has had a decade long career in the NFL and was a special teams standout. Studebaker has played one season as a backup for a team that has little to no depth at the outside linebacker position. You are telling me that in Studebaker's single NFL season (plus a month), he's already surpassed Beisel, who's proven himself as a standout special teams player/backup linebacker in the NFL for a decade?

He'll be damn lucky to end up with the same career as Beisel. As it stands right now, in his "career," he's cost this team an easy touchdown which would have helped put that MNF game away a lot earlier than the final 30 seconds.

I like Studebaker, but your the moron on this one pal.

[HemiEd]

, , , ,

I'm taking these with me as you're clearly working them too hard. Rest assured that I will be placing them in very good homes. I intend to donate them to one of the illiterate mouth-breathers on this board that refuses to use the damn things.

ROFL

[DJ's left nut]

None of those 3 players mentioned have body types, playing style, nor player position of the other.

But they are all white, so we've got that angle to work with.

Apart from the fact that Beisel played LOLB in the NE 3-4, and was all of 1 inch taller than Studebaker while also weighing the same, you might be onto something.

How does Beisel not have the same body type as Studebaker? Or not play the same position (OLB/ST).

C'mon - the comparison isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot closer than Studebaker and Jared MFing Allen.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Apart from the fact that Beisel played LOLB in the NE 3-4, and was all of 1 inch taller than Studebaker while also weighing the same, you might be onto something.

How does Beisel not have the same body type as Studebaker? Or not play the same position (OLB/ST).

C'mon - the comparison isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot closer than Studebaker and Jared MFing Allen.

Beisel was an Inside backer for the Patriots.

[milkman]

Who do you think he's more likely to be - Allen or Beisel?

C'mon, this isn't close.

Monty Besiel had a 9 year career as a special teams player. If the guy wasn't better than an average STer, he'd have been cut and replaced by a 5th round pick. Monty was a very good STer. And the man started for a season in NE at LBer. No, he wasn't very good, but he was an acceptable rotation backer.

These guys don't stick around for 9 years as marginal talents if they don't bring more to the table than you're giving Beisel credit for. He won't be remembered by anyone in 5 years, but he carved out a solid career for himself when all was said and done.

I'd give Studebaker about a 5% chance of being anywhere near Jared Allen's level. I'd give him about a 70% chance of exceeding Beisel's level, or about a 30% chance of stalling at Beisel.

So in essence, I think he's about 6 times more likely to be Monty Beisel than Jared Allen.

I don't give a rat's ass that Beisel started a season for the Pats.
That simply tells us that they had crap for depth at LB.

I think Studebaker has a chance to be a solid contributor on defense.
He won't be Jared Allen, but he'll be a damn sight better than Beisel.

Neither comparison is worth the time it took to type them.

And neither is worth the time I spent responding, so I'm done with this moronacy.

And yes, I know it is actually moronity.

[DJ's left nut]

Beisel was an Inside backer for the Patriots.

I thought I recalled him at OLB.

Bring in a Patriots fan, they could be useful here....

In either event - they're both primarily special teams players and at the very least 3-4 backers. Allen is a pure 4-3 DE and apart from being drafted as a long-snapper, was rarely to be seen on a ST unit (and I can't imagine he was ever on the return team.

Can you find a better comparison on this team to Monty Beisel than Andy Studebaker? Do you think Cory Greenwood or Justin Cole are going to be around in 9 years? I sure as hell don't, but Studebaker might be.

It's important not to completely discount Beisel's longevity in a league known for devouring and discarding marginal players. If you are willing to recognize that the dude managed to play for a decade in this league for a reason, you'll realize that this comparison may not be that bad afterall.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

My mistake DJ, he did start one game in the 2004 season (vs Denver) at Outside linebacker, filling in for an injured player. Other than that, all his other starts for the Patriots were as an inside backer.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't give a rat's ass that Beisel started a season for the Pats.
That simply tells us that they had crap for depth at LB.

I think Studebaker has a chance to be a solid contributor on defense.
He won't be Jared Allen, but he'll be a damn sight better than Beisel.

Neither comparison is worth the time it took to type them.

And neither is worth the time I spent responding, so I'm done with this moronacy.

And yes, I know it is actually moronity.

And the Chiefs are loaded with depth at LB?

You're right - lots of guys that are completely useless play 10 years in the league. I'm sure teams continued to pay the guy veterans paychecks instead of giving his salary to cheaper rookies because they thought his name was catchy.

It's not my fault you're incapable of recognizing that Beisel was a far better player than you're willing to give him credit for.

[DJ's left nut]

Hey, speaking of which -- HAPPY 25TH BIRTHDAY ANDY STUDEBAKER!!!

Maybe you'll get a sack someday and prove Milkman right. Afterall, it's completely unreasonable to compare a 25 year old w/ 0 career sacks and 26 career solo tackles to a guy that played nearly a decade in the league as a standout special teamer. It's far more reasonable to compare him to a fringe HOFer.

[milkman]

I thought I recalled him at OLB.

Bring in a Patriots fan, they could be useful here....

In either event - they're both primarily special teams players and at the very least 3-4 backers. Allen is a pure 4-3 DE and apart from being drafted as a long-snapper, was rarely to be seen on a ST unit (and I can't imagine he was ever on the return team.

Can you find a better comparison on this team to Monty Beisel than Andy Studebaker? Do you think Cory Greenwood or Justin Cole are going to be around in 9 years? I sure as hell don't, but Studebaker might be.

It's important not to completely discount Beisel's longevity in a league known for devouring and discarding marginal players. If you are willing to recognize that the dude managed to play for a decade in this league for a reason, you'll realize that this comparison may not be that bad afterall.

I guess I'm not done.

I may have marginalized Beisel's contributions as a special teams player, but I've seen enough of Besel on defense to know that he isn't as good as Studebaker has shown in his limited opportunities.

I think that people over value the plays that he made in the game against Pittsburg, and have raised to a much higher level than he should be at.

I think a far more fair comparison for Studebaker's potential would be Scott Fugita.

He has the look of a solid starter and role player on a solid defense.

Beisel sucked monkey balls.

[milkman]

Hey, speaking of which -- HAPPY 25TH BIRTHDAY ANDY STUDEBAKER!!!

Maybe you'll get a sack someday and prove Milkman right. Afterall, it's completely unreasonable to compare a 25 year old w/ 0 career sacks and 26 career solo tackles to a guy that played nearly a decade in the league as a standout special teamer. It's far more reasonable to compare him to a fringe HOFer.

You are a fucking moron that clearly can't read you dumb fuck.

I said clearly that the comparison to Allen, as well as Beisel, had no validity.

Dipshit.

[DJ's left nut]

For the record:

At the start of his 3rd season in the league, Beisel was a 25 year old linebacker and primary ST player with 0 career sacks and 26 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'4'', 250 lbs.

At the start of Studebaker's 3rd season in the league, he's a 25 year old linebacker and primary ST player with 0 career sacks and 24 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'3'', 250 lbs.

At the start of Jared Allen's 3rd season in the league he was a 24 year old DE with no ST responsibilities and 20 career sacks and 80 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'6'', 270 lbs.

Y'know what, I really do think one of these things is not like the other.

I have no earthly idea how you can claim that there's absolutely no comparing Beisel and Studebaker.

[milkman]

For the record:

At the start of his 3rd season in the league, Beisel was a 25 year old linebacker and primary ST player with 0 career sacks and 26 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'4'', 250 lbs.

At the start of Studebaker's 3rd season in the league, he's a 25 year old linebacker and primary ST player with 0 career sacks and 24 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'3'', 250 lbs.

At the start of Jared Allen's 3rd season in the league he was a 24 year old DE with no ST responsibilities and 20 career sacks and 80 career solo tackles who played at roughly 6'6'', 270 lbs.

Y'know what, I really do think one of these things is not like the other.

I have no earthly idea how you can claim that there's absolutely no comparing Beisel and Studebaker.

I don't know how many ****ing times I have to say this.

Stats mean jack to me.

They are just numbers with no real context until you actually watch the games.

I can claim there's no comparison because I've watched both play.

[DJ's left nut]

You are a ****ing moron that clearly can't read you dumb ****.

I said clearly that the comparison to Allen, as well as Beisel, had no validity.

Dipshit.

Beisel and Studebaker ABSOLUTELY has validity.

Through the same stages of their careers, they are virtually the same player. They have similar physical skills and they have similar games (physically not the most gifted but play a serious energy game).

They compare. Studebaker's career could very easily be better than Beisel's, but there's certainly no reason to say that it WILL be. We've seen him make a great play in pass coverage and have a couple of strong pre-season games but that's about it.

Until he does it on the field, it's absolutely fair to compare him to a guy that looks and plays like him and had a 10 year career in this league. In fact, it may not be fair to Beisel.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't know how many ****ing times I have to say this.

Stats mean jack to me.

They are just numbers with no real context until you actually watch the games.

I can claim there's no comparison because I've watched both play.

Hell, I never thought of actually watching them.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[Saccopoo]

I don't give a rat's ass that Beisel started a season for the Pats.
That simply tells us that they had crap for depth at LB.

I think Studebaker has a chance to be a solid contributor on defense.
He won't be Jared Allen, but he'll be a damn sight better than Beisel.

Neither comparison is worth the time it took to type them.

And neither is worth the time I spent responding, so I'm done with this moronacy.

And yes, I know it is actually moronity.

http://www.freewebs.com/ut3kowclan/pwned%20DH.jpg

[Iowanian]

I called that as a sprained mcl in the game thread....it was a pretty obvious un-natural bend to the inside of his knee.

[milkman]

Hell, I never thought of actually watching them.

Thanks for setting me straight.

If you had ever actually watched them, you would seen that Beisel never actually shed a block, or clogged up a lane.

I have seen Studebaker do that.

[DJ's left nut]

If you had ever actually watched them, you would seen that Beisel never actually shed a block, or clogged up a lane.

I have seen Studebaker do that.

And if you were honest you'd know that there's simply no way in hell the man was hardnosed enough to continue getting contracts as a STs player without being willing to shed a block or step into a lane.

Physically, he is no less imposing than Studebaker. Mentally, he had the same attitude.

Yes, I watched the man play. And no, I cannot come up with any single moment where he sniffed out and blew apart a play nearly a decade ago. But I do recall him being a relatively gritty player that simply lacked the explosion to be a true starter.

I'm equally certain you don't actually have any independent recollection of his singular performances. Yes, Monty Beisel clogged a lane at least once in his career. Yes, he absolutely shed at least one blocker in his career.

Soft players with marginal talent and limited athleticism do not make it for a decade in this league. You're remembering what you want to remember.

It's a completely fair comparison. Perhaps Studebaker will exceed him, but 2 years into his career, to call a comparison between the two 'pure drivel' belies the facts.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Beisel came into the league as a very developed player. Coming from a school with high level competition, and he was very productive. Studd is raw raw raw... but has much more athleticism and potential than Beisel ever had.

Beisel had the work eithic, strength, and intelligence to sustain an NFL career, albeit as primarily a ST player. His problem was athleticism.

Studd has said athleticism, however it remains to be seen if he can develop the traits Beisel came in with.

Numbers aside, the differences in the two players are so polar opposite (especially where they were at that point in their careers) being why I think the comparison is off.

[milkman]

And if you were honest you'd know that there's simply no way in hell the man was hardnosed enough to continue getting contracts as a STs player without being willing to shed a block or step into a lane.

Physically, he is no less imposing than Studebaker. Mentally, he had the same attitude.

Yes, I watched the man play. And no, I cannot come up with any single moment where he sniffed out and blew apart a play nearly a decade ago. But I do recall him being a relatively gritty player that simply lacked the explosion to be a true starter.

I'm equally certain you don't actually have any independent recollection of his singular performances. Yes, Monty Beisel clogged a lane at least once in his career. Yes, he absolutely shed at least one blocker in his career.

Soft players with marginal talent and limited athleticism do not make it for a decade in this league. You're remembering what you want to remember.

It's a completely fair comparison. Perhaps Studebaker will exceed him, but 2 years into his career, to call a comparison between the two 'pure drivel' belies the facts.

What I remember is this love affair that Chief fan had with Monty Beisel and watching to find out what it was that warranted it.

I didn't see him do a damn thing.

He hung around because he did contribute on special teams those firs couple of seasons, and for no other reason.

Now he went on to get better at playing a position on defense, but he was clearly just a gritty scrub.

Now, because of the same type of love affair that Chief fan has for Studebaker, I've watched closely.

He's never going to be a great player, but he has shown enough that I can see that he has a chance to be an actual role player on defense.

That's why the comparison has no actual foundation.

[Coogs]

:popcorn:

[DJ's left nut]

Beisel came into the league as a very developed player. Coming from a school with high level competition, and he was very productive. Studd is raw raw raw... but has much more athleticism and potential than Beisel ever had.

Beisel had the work eithic, strength, and intelligence to sustain an NFL career, albeit as primarily a ST player. His problem was athleticism.

Studd has said athleticism, however it remains to be seen if he can develop the traits Beisel came in with.

Numbers aside, the differences in the two players are so polar opposite (especially where they were at that point in their careers) being why I think the comparison is off.

And that's fine - like I said, I think it's about 70% likely that Studebaker surpasses Beisel as a player.

But when you look at 2 guys who, at the same stages of their careers have produced almost the exact same career, you have to concede that there are fair comparisons to be made.

I think you're overstating Studebaker's athleticism a little bit, and I think you're understating Beisel's when he first came out, but I won't argue that Studebaker is a better athlete. At the same time, when discussing comparisons on the field, their production to this point has been virtually identical.

The comparisons can bring different results, but they're absolutely fair. We're not comparing him to Cory Greenwood here, we're comparing him to a guy that produced at a similar level and in a similar capacity through a similar point in their careers, a guy that had a very strong NFL career, I might add. Can he overtake him? Yup - but until he does, the comparison is apt.

[HemiEd]

What I remember is this love affair that Chief fan had with Monty Beisel and watching to find out what it was that warranted it.

I didn't see him do a damn thing.

He hung around because he did contribute on special teams those firs couple of seasons, and for no other reason.

Now he went on to get better at playing a position on defense, but he was clearly just a gritty scrub.

Now, because of the same type of love affair that Chief fan has for Studebaker, I've watched closely.

He's never going to be a great player, but he has shown enough that I can see that he has a chance to be an actual role player on defense.

That's why the comparison has no actual foundation.

They just drafted Beisel to sell tickets to Kansans, just like they drafted Colin Brown to sell tickets to Missourians.

The difference, K-State is a better football school, so Beisel stuck around longer, simple really. :D

[DJ's left nut]

What I remember is this love affair that Chief fan had with Monty Beisel and watching to find out what it was that warranted it.

I didn't see him do a damn thing.

He hung around because he did contribute on special teams those firs couple of seasons, and for no other reason.

Now he went on to get better at playing a position on defense, but he was clearly just a gritty scrub.

Now, because of the same type of love affair that Chief fan has for Studebaker, I've watched closely.

He's never going to be a great player, but he has shown enough that I can see that he has a chance to be an actual role player on defense.

That's why the comparison has no actual foundation.

See, this is why I hate the saying "you're comparing apples and oranges"...y'know what - they're both fruit dammit - they can be compared. It's nothing like comparing Studebaker to Allen, which is essentially comparing an apple to a steak.

Studebaker can be a better version of Beisel, absolutely. He has more potential than Beisel. But through the same points in their careers they have been very very similar players and in very similar roles.

Studebaker may be an apple, Beisel may be an orange (I'm not sure I buy that, I happen to think Studebaker's likely to just be a shiner apple than Beisel, but I digress), but the comparisons are absolutely fair.

Now it's up to Studebaker to do the heavy lifting and change the scales.

[DJ's left nut]

I suppose I can see an alternative approach here.

From what I can gather, you see things as follows:

Beisel's 'souped up' version would essentially be Mike Maslowski: Tough, gritty, limited athlete that made a role for himself in the league.

Whereas Studebaker's 'souped up' version would be Fujita: Faster, more versatile athlete that's an average to slightly above average starter for most NFL squads.

But here's my point -- you're still comparing their souped up versions. My point is that Studebaker has a damn long way to go to become Fujita. He may never get there, and in fact, there's a very good chance he doesn't (Fujita had a couple seasons where he should've had pro-bowl consideration). I disagree that Beisel was a significantly inferior athlete to Studebaker, but we'll set that aside.

Right now, Studebaker is no closer to being Fujita than Beisel was to being Maslowski at a similar stage in his career. We're not comparing Studebaker to Greenwood or Beisel to Ray Lewis. We're comparing a 25 year old STer with solid starter upside to another guy that was a 25 year old STer with fringe starter upside; that hardly seems unfair.

And it's a damn sight more fair than comparing him to Jared Allen, which was the point that Sacopoo and myself were making to begin with.

[milkman]

See, this is why I hate the saying "you're comparing apples and oranges"...y'know what - they're both fruit dammit - they can be compared. It's nothing like comparing Studebaker to Allen, which is essentially comparing an apple to a steak.

Studebaker can be a better version of Beisel, absolutely. He has more potential than Beisel. But through the same points in their careers they have been very very similar players and in very similar roles.

Studebaker may be an apple, Beisel may be an orange (I'm not sure I buy that, I happen to think Studebaker's likely to just be a shiner apple than Beisel, but I digress), but the comparisons are absolutely fair.

Now it's up to Studebaker to do the heavy lifting and change the scales.

You are comparing fruits by putting them on a scale (using numbers) and coming to the conclusion that they are both apples.

I'm comparing fruits by looking at them and seeing one appeared to an apple and the other appears to be an orange.

[Frankie]

doesn't hali have a history with foot problems?

There was something about it a year or two ago that I read. If I remember correctly it goes back to his childhood in Africa.

[DJ's left nut]

You are comparing fruits by putting them on a scale (using numbers) and coming to the conclusion that they are both apples.

I'm comparing fruits by looking at them and seeing one appeared to an apple and the other appears to be an orange.

And again - they're both fruits. They can be compared.

And you're ignoring the fact that I'm not going off raw stats, I'm trying to use the stats to support my memory of the player. You're simply using your memory of the player and ignoring the stats.

The stats show two guys that performed similarly in similar roles. You continue to act as though Beisel was a plodding putz and that just isn't true. The fact that he played 10 years on special teams supports that. Guys that come into the league with limited athleticism aren't still playing special teams when they hit their 30s because the wheels would've likely come off by then. Those guys hit the wall in their late 20s and get replaced.

Beisel was a better athlete than you remember. His longevity and his production in various roles support that.

[milkman]

I suppose I can see an alternative approach here.

From what I can gather, you see things as follows:

Beisel's 'souped up' version would essentially be Mike Maslowski: Tough, gritty, limited athlete that made a role for himself in the league.

Whereas Studebaker's 'souped up' version would be Fujita: Faster, more versatile athlete that's an average to slightly above average starter for most NFL squads.

But here's my point -- you're still comparing their souped up versions. My point is that Studebaker has a damn long way to go to become Fujita. He may never get there, and in fact, there's a very good chance he doesn't (Fujita had a couple seasons where he should've had pro-bowl consideration). I disagree that Beisel was a significantly inferior athlete to Studebaker, but we'll set that aside.

Right now, Studebaker is no closer to being Fujita than Beisel was to being Maslowski at a similar stage in his career. We're not comparing Studebaker to Greenwood or Beisel to Ray Lewis. We're comparing a 25 year old STer with solid starter upside to another guy that was a 25 year old STer with fringe starter upside; that hardly seems unfair.

And it's a damn sight more fair than comparing him to Jared Allen, which was the point that Sacopoo and myself were making to begin with.

I'm saying that based on the eye test, I can't not agree that Studebaker and Beisel is a fair comparison.

Studebaker is far more athletic and stronger at this stage than Beisel was at any time in his career.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm saying that based on the eye test, I can't not agree that Studebaker and Beisel is a fair comparison.

Studebaker is far more athletic and stronger at this stage than Beisel was at any time in his career.

Well, I suppose time will tell.

But you're painting Beisel as slow and weak, and his history in this league doesn't support that for a second.

Those guys wash out as soon as they lose even 1/2 a step, if they even make it in the door. Monty started with enough athleticism to still be playing an athlete's role (STs isn't for saps) at 32 years old.

That speaks directly to his athletic ability when he came into the league.

We'll see if Studebaker is still around in 1/2 a decade, but the odds don't favor it a bit.

[Frankie]

I hate it, that this makes me think of Ryan Sims injury against the Jets, as he was showing some flashes of being a beast, then got hauled off on a cart. As we know, he didn't show anything after that.

I was thinking the exact same thing when TyJax went out.

[Frankie]

yes, i guess he has flat feet and it's been a problem before

Don't get me wrong. I'm somewhat of a Hali fan. But why in the world did the Chiefs not check that out before drafting him?

[milkman]

Well, I suppose time will tell.

But you're painting Beisel as slow and weak, and his history in this league doesn't support that for a second.

Those guys wash out as soon as they lose even 1/2 a step, if they even make it in the door. Monty started with enough athleticism to still be playing an athlete's role (STs isn't for saps) at 32 years old.

That speaks directly to his athletic ability when he came into the league.

We'll see if Studebaker is still around in 1/2 a decade, but the odds don't favor it a bit.

As I've said, I don't like numbers, but Boss Chiefs has posted Studebaker's pro day numbers before, and they were off the charts.

Comparable with some of the most athletic LBs in the league.

Now that is a pro day, and again, just numbers, so I take that with a grain of salt, as should you, but it does speak, at least to some degree, to Studebaker's athletic ability.

[Frankie]

Studebaker is not a step away Jared Allen. Jesus...Studebaker is a marginal player that, after the MNF game, is a sub-marginal special teams player at best.
I totally disagree. Nobody thought of Jarred Allen much this early in his career either. Studebaker very much reminds us of the early Jared. He won't get there because we are not lucky enough to catch the lightening in a bottle twice. But let's wait and see before relegating him to the trash heap.

I would say that Hali is relentless/tenacious and would probably be a better 3/4 LOLB when paired with a speedy pass rusher at the ROLB spot. The main problem with Hali's game right now is that the Chiefs don't have any push from the left side of the defensive line/LOLB and quarterbacks simply move that way when Hali pressures.
I totally agree.

[DJ's left nut]

As I've said, I don't like numbers, but Boss Chiefs has posted Studebaker's pro day numbers before, and they were off the charts.

Comparable with some of the most athletic LBs in the league.

Now that is a pro day, and again, just numbers, so I take that with a grain of salt, as should you, but it does speak, at least to some degree, to Studebaker's athletic ability.

But we've all seen the folly of relying on pro-day numbers for 'football athleticism'.

Beisel's stayed in the league despite losing a step while playing a role often filled by some of your more athletic players. That speaks to his athletic ability while in pads coming into the league more than Studebaker's pro-day figures.

He simply can't have been the weak plodder you have him pegged as if he's lasted this long - if nothing else, the economics of the NFL would've made him a casualty by now. Beisel was a solid athlete, just not a terribly explosive player. I actually recall him being similar to a guy like Jason Babin, though not quite as strong.

And again, I've never argued that Studebaker isn't a better raw athlete than Beisel, only that he's not so much better that you can say there's no comparison to be made here. Studebaker is not Ray Lewis and Monty Beisel is not Martin Gramatica.

They're close enough in ability and production to be comparable.

[milkman]

But we've all seen the folly of relying on pro-day numbers for 'football athleticism'.

Beisel's stayed in the league despite losing a step while playing a role often filled by some of your more athletic players. That speaks to his athletic ability while in pads coming into the league more than Studebaker's pro-day figures.

He simply can't have been the weak plodder you have him pegged as if he's lasted this long - if nothing else, the economics of the NFL would've made him a casualty by now. Beisel was a solid athlete, just not a terribly explosive player. I actually recall him being similar to a guy like Jason Babin, though not quite as strong.

And again, I've never argued that Studebaker isn't a better raw athlete than Beisel, only that he's not so much better that you can say there's no comparison to be made here. Studebaker is not Ray Lewis and Monty Beisel is not Martin Gramatica.

They're close enough in ability and production to be comparable.

I said that you should take those numbers with a grain of salt.

But one other thing to note, the numbers you posted are misleading because at the start of Beisel's third season he had appeared in all 32 games, while Studebaker was inactive for 10 of those game in his first two years.

Studebaker was as raw as could be.

He's really progressed since his first game in his rookie preseason (with the Eagles).

[BossChief]

Studebakers floor is already shown to be higher than Beisels ceiling.

When a player has the measurables, work ethic and production in limited action...that warrants more looks for the player.

When he has got extended looks on the field, the guy has shown the ability to translate his work ethic and measurables into actual production, and at a very high level.

He started the Pittsburgh game and had 2 interceptions and was a hair away from adding a sack. In his most action of this preseason (against Philadelphias starting OL) he got two sacks in about a half a game worth of playing time.

To compare a guy like that to a guy that maxed out as a special teamer is disingenuous.