610 Slamming Cassel

[petegz28]

"Most unimpressive 3 TD performance ever.."

"Pass to Moeaki was an overthrow..."



But they are not "hating" as they said....ROFL

[MOhillbilly]

So glad we only have Art in the evening. Dude tells it like it is, no mess, no fuss.

[-King-]

Only person on 610 worth listening to is the scabrous Nick Wright. All the others are trash. Fescoe literally knows NOTHING about football. It's amazing listening to him. Shariff doesn't know much about sports so he sticks to stories dealing with things around sport and not the sport itself.

[petegz28]

Cassel deserves no credit for flea flicker...

You didn't watch the 2nd half objectively if you think Cassel did good...





I know the guy sucks but damn, he had a good game yesterday.

[Brock]

He looked competent. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with it.

[beer bacon]

The flea flicker was a good pass. I have seen plenty of QBs choke and throw horrible passes on plays like that. The guy threw for 3 TDs and 250 yards. Save the insults for when he actually deserves it.

[The Franchise]

He looked competent. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with it.

This.

I want to see if he can do it two games in a row.

[BigChiefFan]

He's starting to get his stride.

[Oregon chief]

If he caught it, it is not an overthrow.

[beer bacon]

He's starting to get his stride.

The guy throws 3 TDs and people complain that one of the TDs was thrown too high. What a joke. Guess what, he completed it.

[ModSocks]

Shocker. Give the man his props. He did well yesterday.

[The Franchise]

If he caught it, it is not an overthrow.

:spock:

[blaise]

You know what else is umimpressive? 610's ratings.

[-King-]

If he can play like that for the year, this is a playoff team. And no, I don't mean a back in the playoffs type of team. I mean a win the division type of team.

[Pitt Gorilla]

He looked competent. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with it.That's a fair assessment. Of course, I'd take competent all season.

[beer bacon]

Shocker. Give the man his props. He did well yesterday.

Nope sorry, the TD pass to McCluster had a bit of a wobble to it. That doesn't count!

[Frazod]

What spectacular highlight circus catch doesn't result from a poor throw?

[MMXcalibur]

I'm not a Cassel defender by any means, but the guy at least looked like he belonged on the football field yesterday. He didn't come out with another 80 yard or 2 interception stinker.

Lay off him until after the Indy game.

[eazyb81]

This.

I want to see if he can do it two games in a row.

I haven't seen anyone anoint him as the savior.

You don't have to wait to see if he can "do it two games in a row" before saying he played well yesterday.

[philfree]

If he caught it, it is not an overthrow.

That's what I was thinking. It was an almost overthrow and a fer-sure TD.

PhilFree:arrow:

[The Franchise]

I haven't seen anyone anoint him as the savior.

You don't have to wait to see if he can "do it two games in a row" before saying he played well yesterday.

I can give him credit for what he did yesterday....but I want to wait to see if he can do it 2 games in a row before I consider him a competent QB.

[Reerun_KC]

I hope he plays like this the rest of the year... It will thin the herd a little... Lots of people will either leave, kill themselves or just stop watching because they are winning games.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not a Cassel defender by any means, but the guy at least looked like he belonged on the football field yesterday. He didn't come out with another 80 yard or 2 interception stinker.

Lay off him until after the Indy game.

I will be at that game....

I think it is going to be a better game than people want to admit...

[philfree]

I'm not a Cassel defender by any means, but the guy at least looked like he belonged on the football field yesterday. He didn't come out with another 80 yard or 2 interception stinker.

Lay off him until after the Indy game.

He didn't make it but I liked it when he dove head first between two defenders trying to convert a 1st down. Whatever his short commings Cassel is a tough SOB. He took a few big hits yesterday and it didn't phase him. Huard would have been going fetal position after a few of those.

PhilFree:arrow:

[petegz28]

It's this Shan Sharrif guy. WTF is he? We are supposed to believe Cassel stunk yesterday because everyone he talked to on Twitter said Cassel sucked.


Twitter, the ultimate word on NFL QB's.

[-King-]

I will be at that game....

I think it is going to be a better game than people want to admit...

Indy has a shit run defense and we just so happen to have the best run duo in the league. This game will be fun to watch.

Manning might make our rookie Dbacks look foolish though.

[Chiefnj2]

He's slowly showing signs of improvement. That's all you can realistically expect. Though I'm sure that's not going to stop people from making Peyton Manning comparisons all week.

[TrickyNicky]

The biggest thing is 0 sacks. I think Weis on the sideline to coach him helped too.

[philfree]

I will be at that game....

I think it is going to be a better game than people want to admit...

Romeo will have this D dialed in to Manning and we can run the ball so it should a close contest and I'll be pumped if the Chiefs win but I won't be shocked.

PhilFree:arrow:

[-King-]

It's this Shan Sharrif guy. WTF is he? We are supposed to believe Cassel stunk yesterday because everyone he talked to on Twitter said Cassel sucked.


Twitter, the ultimate word on NFL QB's.

He's from Baltimore and doesn't know shit about sports.

But he did win his Tennis Championship in HS!

[Goldmember]

"Most unimpressive 3 TD performance ever.."

"Pass to Moeaki was an overthrow..."



But they are not "hating" as they said....ROFL

Funny, I saw a pass just like this that Favre threw for a TD and everyone said how great a pass it was.

It would be nice if the Chiefs had more receivers that had hands like Moeaki. Bowe has developed alligator arms to go with his butterfingers.

[Chiefs Rool]

the way Cassel played, it was an improvement. I wouldn't say he had a great game, 2 of those TDs passes were because of great plays by the player catching them. But he needs to be consistent, 1 decent game don't get me excited. He needs to do this just about every game.

[BigChiefFan]

I think we actually have a very good shot of beating Indy. Their team is a little weak this year. Take Manning off that team and they are in the cellar, IMO.

We beat Indy and that would go a long way in gaining some confidence and momentum.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I've talked as much shit on Mark Castle as anyone here. A 112 QB rating says it all. Great game, Matt.

[jspchief]

He was horribly inaccurate all game. Circus catches and YAC made his stat line look a lot better than his actual play. Certainly his best performance yet this year, but far from from a good performance IMO.

[Brock]

We beat Indy and that would go a long way in gaining some confidence and momentum.

Heh. Ya think?

[The Elder]

610 has lost all credibility. They used to be okay. But in the last year and a half they made lots of changes. All for the worse. I once had my dial set to that station. Not any more.

[Reerun_KC]

Indy has a shit run defense and we just so happen to have the best run duo in the league. This game will be fun to watch.

Manning might make our rookie Dbacks look foolish though.

Agree and holy shit, if we can stay close or pull off an upset.. It will be a big big boost for this team.


I can see us winning or losing a sqeaker....

31-28 either way.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I've talked as much shit on Mark Castle as anyone here. A 112 QB rating says it all. Great game, Matt.

Somehow though, I don't think I'll hear too many people make the same concessions about Mark Sanchez, who in his 2nd year is really starting to come into his own.

[SAUTO]

Somehow though, I don't think I'll hear too many people make the same concessions about Mark Sanchez, who in his 2nd year is really starting to come into his own.

i agree.

[BigMeatballDave]

Cassel deserves no credit for flea flicker...

You didn't watch the 2nd half objectively if you think Cassel did good...





I know the guy sucks but damn, he had a good game yesterday.No. He didnt. A good QB would have carved that D up for 400+ yrds. Matt could only muster 250. Very mediocre, at best.

[Reerun_KC]

He was horribly inaccurate all game. Circus catches and YAC made his stat line look a lot better than his actual play. Certainly his best performance yet this year, but far from from a good performance IMO.

Happens all around the league every game... If you take those away, Almost all QB's look average and everyone is far from a good performance.

Shit how many times have you seen Brady chuck a prayer bomb to Moss?

Or Manning to Wayne with a magicall circus catch on the sideline?

Yes, we know Cassel isnt Brady or Manning, but splitting fine hairs to make a point is goofy.

[Reerun_KC]

No. He didnt. A good QB would have carved that D up for 400+ yrds. Matt could only muster 250. Very mediocre, at best.

yet we had 200 yards rushing...

You cant be this serious?

[BigMeatballDave]

If he caught it, it is not an overthrow.LMAO

[BigMeatballDave]

yet we had 200 yards rushing...

You cant be this serious?Oh, I'm dead fucking serious.

[Reerun_KC]

Oh, I'm dead ****ing serious.

Alright, each is to their own.....

[Coogs]

Alright, each is to their own.....

You might need to adjust your sarcasm meter a bit.

[Iron Chef]

[QUOTE=petegz28;7043022]"Most unimpressive 3 TD performance ever.."

"Pass to Moeaki was an overthrow..."




If that pass wasn’t overthrown it’s either intercepted or incomplete.

[BigChiefFan]

One more win and we TIE last year's season wins. The team is getting better and that's the important thing.

[Brock]

[QUOTE=petegz28;7043022]"Most unimpressive 3 TD performance ever.."

"Pass to Moeaki was an overthrow..."




If that pass wasn’t overthrown it’s either intercepted or incomplete.

Either that or it's a much easier catch for Moeaki to make.

[Reerun_KC]

You might need to adjust your sarcasm meter a bit.

:huh:

[aturnis]

It's this Shan Sharrif guy. WTF is he? We are supposed to believe Cassel stunk yesterday because everyone he talked to on Twitter said Cassel sucked.


Twitter, the ultimate word on NFL QB's.

You're an idiot. Do you have any idea of who he was talking to on twitter? It could be noone, but it sure could be some of the best QB guru's around the NFL. You can't discount it b/c it's twitter.

[Coogs]

:huh:

I don't know this for a fact, but I think he was being sarcastic. If he wasn't, then maybe I need to adjust my sarcasm meter.

[Crush]

yet we had 200 yards rushing...

You cant be this serious?


He is serious and don't call him Shirley.

[Red Dawg]

Alright, each is to their own.....

Shut the hell up. Brees didn't even get 400 on them.

[Crush]

You're an idiot. Do you have any idea of who he was talking to on twitter? It could be noone, but it sure could be some of the best QB guru's around the NFL. You can't discount it b/c it's twitter.


Knowmo, is that you?

[Reerun_KC]

Shut the hell up. Brees didn't even get 400 on them.:eek:

Lick balls!

[Reerun_KC]

He is serious and don't call him Shirley.

Wait? Who is Shirley?

[jspchief]

Happens all around the league every game... If you take those away, Almost all QB's look average and everyone is far from a good performance.

Shit how many times have you seen Brady chuck a prayer bomb to Moss?

Or Manning to Wayne with a magicall circus catch on the sideline?

Yes, we know Cassel isnt Brady or Manning, but splitting fine hairs to make a point is goofy.Yes, those things do happen all the time in the NFL. And in this particular game, they made his poor play look like a 112 passer rating on paper. How many passes did he complete over 10 yards? How many of his incomplete passes were over 10 yards?

Honestly, I felt he was playing so poorly in the 1st half, that there was a very real chance of him getting benched. Everything else was clicking, and he was still making bad throw after bad throw.

[Reerun_KC]

Where do these callers come from?

810 is in meltdown mode

[alpha_omega]

I've talked as much shit on Mark Castle as anyone here. A 112 QB rating says it all. Great game, Matt.

I agree with that. If we bag on him for bad games, we have to give him props when he has a good game.

[Reerun_KC]

Yes, those things do happen all the time in the NFL. And in this particular game, they made his poor play look like a 112 passer rating on paper. How many passes did he complete over 10 yards? How many of his incomplete passes were over 10 yards?

Honestly, I felt he was playing so poorly in the 1st half, that there was a very real chance of him getting benched. Everything else was clicking, and he was still making bad throw after bad throw.

I dont care how many passes where completed in the "air" over 10 yards. Its about executing the game plan and getting the ball in the hands of the play makers... God damn I appreciate the Rich Gannon type of game from Cassel yesterday. Throw those short passes all day long, let the speed and talent of your playmakers get the yards..

yesterday was a perfect Matty Light game.

Answer me this, how many plays did KC have over 20 years yesterday? Last I heard it was around 8... Thats pretty damn good.

Thankfully this is a team sport and that was a complete team domination yesterday.

[BigMeatballDave]

If the TD pass to Moeaki had not been in the endzone, and there had been a defender behind him to hit him as he attempted to catch it, Moeaki would have gotten hammered. Thats what you call 'hanging your receivers out to dry'.

Look, Cassel IS playing better. Yesterdays game was an improvement. However, he is not a catalyst on this team. He's a liability. I sincerely hope he continues to improve so I can eat my crow. I'm a Chiefs fan. I love this team and I am excited. I'm rooting for Matt Cassel to succeed.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I've talked as much shit on Mark Castle as anyone here. A 112 QB rating says it all. Great game, Matt.

Remember the Philly game last year?

Dude had a QB rating over 100.

Didn't play a good game. Was something like 9/12 for 90 yards, IIRC.

QB rating doesn't tell the entire story.

He was horribly inaccurate all game. Circus catches and YAC made his stat line look a lot better than his actual play. Certainly his best performance yet this year, but far from from a good performance IMO.

Exactly this.

[BWillie]

I actually liked the throw to Moeaki. Cassel put it in a spot that only Moeaki could get it. With that said, he didn't have as good of game as his stat line indicated, but if he plays that well every game from here on out we will be alright.

[milkmen]

fuck cassel

[BigMeatballDave]

I dont care how many passes where completed in the "air" over 10 yards. Its about executing the game plan and getting the ball in the hands of the play makers... God damn I appreciate the Rich Gannon type of game from Cassel yesterday. Throw those short passes all day long, let the speed and talent of your playmakers get the yards..

yesterday was a perfect Matty Light game.

Answer me this, how many plays did KC have over 20 years yesterday? Last I heard it was around 8... Thats pretty damn good.

Thankfully this is a team sport and that was a complete team domination yesterday.Something that Cassel does repeatedly is the INT. He's usually late on his throws. Most QBs throw to a spot, and the ball arrives when the WR comes out of his break.

[The Franchise]

I actually liked the throw to Moeaki. Cassel put it in a spot that only Moeaki could get it if he completely stretched his body out and jumped 5 feet into the air. With that said, he didn't have as good of game as his stat line indicated, but if he plays that well every game from here on out we will be alright.

FYP

[milkmen]

I actually liked the throw to Moeaki. Cassel put it in a spot that only Moeaki could get it. With that said, he didn't have as good of game as his stat line indicated, but if he plays that well every game from here on out we will be alright.

He put it in a spot that nobody could catch it. Thank god Moeaki is not nobody. Fuck Cassel.

[BigMeatballDave]

I actually liked the throw to Moeaki. Cassel put it in a spot that only Moeaki could get it. :facepalm:

[Reerun_KC]

Something that Cassel does repeatedly is the INT. He's usually late on his throws. Most QBs throw to a spot, and the ball arrives when the WR comes out of his break.

Agree.

That is getting frustrating... Bowe is lazy coming out of his routes, Cassel is always late and off target..

That isnt a recipe for long term success...

[Reerun_KC]

:facepalm:

Maybe we should have that TD removed since fans dont like the QB?

[BigMeatballDave]

Remember the Philly game last year?

Dude had a QB rating over 100.

Didn't play a good game. Was something like 9/12 for 90 yards, IIRC.

QB rating doesn't tell the entire story.



Exactly this.Yep. People are looking at his numbers. Stats are overrated. Lucky for Cassel, he's got some playmakers on O.

[Chiefnj2]

I'll take 250 yards and 3 TD to 1 INT from Cassel for each game of the rest of the season, and be very happy about it. I don't care if he looks good throwing the TDs or not.

[BigMeatballDave]

Maybe we should have that TD removed since fans dont like the QB?ROFL

[stevieray]

. Lucky for Cassel, he's got some playmakers on O.

:spock:

like he's not supposed to?

[Demonpenz]

The thing about cassel is how he gets there early and stays late and study films. He knew exactly where to place the ball so only moeaki could catch the ball, and that is because he studies his recievers harder than any other qb on the roster

[BigMeatballDave]

:spock:

like he's not supposed to?My point is, the players around him make up for his shortcomings.

[stevieray]

My point is, the players around him make up for his shortcomings.

:spock:


ya, cause this isn't a team sport.

[Pitt Gorilla]

He put it in a spot that nobody could catch it. Thank god Moeaki is not nobody. **** Cassel.I'm pretty sure you didn't state that correctly. At all.

[Chiefnj2]

My point is, the players around him make up for his shortcomings.

Like Rice making up for Montana's shortcomings? Lynn Swann and Stallworth for Bradshaw? Fitz and Boldin for Warner? Moss and Walker for Brady?

[mnchiefsguy]

610 is more worried about their rep as being the anti-establishment, alternative station to 810 rather then making any meaningful comment about the victory.

[jspchief]

:spock:


ya, cause this isn't a team sport.So is there never a time when 1 individual player's poor play effects the outcome of a game?

I don't believe that winning in spite of Cassel is a formula for consistent success.

[patteeu]

"Most unimpressive 3 TD performance ever.."

"Pass to Moeaki was an overthrow..."



But they are not "hating" as they said....ROFL

810 has to be some pretty boring radio for me to turn the dial to 610 anytime before 2pm these days. Bob Fescoe and Shan Shariff are unlistenable from my pov.

[jspchief]

Like Rice making up for Montana's shortcomings? Lynn Swann and Stallworth for Bradshaw? Fitz and Boldin for Warner? Moss and Walker for Brady?Please tell me you're joking.

[DeezNutz]

He was horribly inaccurate all game. Circus catches and YAC made his stat line look a lot better than his actual play. Certainly his best performance yet this year, but far from from a good performance IMO.

.

[stevieray]

So is there never a time when 1 individual player's poor play effects the outcome of a game?

I don't believe that winning in spite of Cassel is a formula for consistent success.

one missed tackle due to slipping can effect the outcome of a game.

not every pass is going be perfect, not every catch is going to be perfect.

you win as a team, you lose as a team.

[BigMeatballDave]

Like Rice making up for Montana's shortcomings? Lynn Swann and Stallworth for Bradshaw? Fitz and Boldin for Warner? Moss and Walker for Brady?Montana won before Rice was there. Brady won 3 SBs before Moss and Welker. Those QBs you mention are all current/future HOFs. If you cannot see that Matt Cassel is not a good QB, then you should stop watching football.

Oh, wait. Matt Cassel = John Elway :doh!:

[BigMeatballDave]

one missed tackle due to slipping can effect the outcome of a game.

not every pass is going be perfect, not every catch is going to be perfect.

you win as a team, you lose as a team.I agree with all of this. However, if Cassel does not improve, it will catch up with this team and cost us some games.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So is there never a time when 1 individual player's poor play effects the outcome of a game?

I don't believe that winning in spite of Cassel is a formula for consistent success.

Spot on, again.

Moeaki MAYBE makes that catch twice in ten tries.

The flea flicker was a one-and-done. No team is going to fall for that again.

Dexter won't score on every simple 5 yard route he runs.


Cassel has to be more consistent down the field for this passing offense to have consistent success. He's not going to throw for 250 and 3 TD's every week with the throws he made yesterday.

[DeezNutz]

I agree with all of this. However, if Cassel does not improve, it will catch up with this team and cost us in the playoffs.

We're currently on course to be the 90s Chiefs, and I'm not even going to say with a better coaching staff, as some of those early 90s staffs were fucking loaded.

[jspchief]

one missed tackle due to slipping can effect the outcome of a game.

not every pass is going be perfect, not every catch is going to be perfect.

you win as a team, you lose as a team.So if a LB has 10 missed tackles, and 3 good tackles, did he have a good game? Would you want him to play like that all year?

[beer bacon]

610 is more worried about their rep as being the anti-establishment, alternative station to 810 rather then making any meaningful comment about the victory.

Also, doesn't 810 have some sort of deal with the Chiefs now?

[beer bacon]

So if a LB has 10 missed tackles, and 3 good tackles, did he have a good game? Would you want him to play like that all year?

What if your QB throws for 250 yards, 3 TDs, and one INT in a blowout victory? Would you want him to play like that all year?

[stevieray]

Spot on, again.

Moeaki MAYBE makes that catch twice in ten tries.

The flea flicker was a one-and-done. No team is going to fall for that again.

Dexter won't score on every simple 5 yard route he runs.


Cassel has to be more consistent down the field for this passing offense to have consistent success. He's not going to throw for 250 and 3 TD's every week with the throws he made yesterday.

ya, and last week it was we can't rely on defense and st's play.

you guys just keep setting yourself up.

[jspchief]

I agree with all of this. However, if Cassel does not improve, it will catch up with this team and cost us some games.Don't be silly. When Cassel plays like he did yesterday, it will always net us 250 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. We won, therefore nothing went wrong.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We're currently on course to be the 90s Chiefs, and I'm not even going to say with a better coaching staff, as some of those early 90s staffs were fucking loaded.

Yep.

We've all seen how this movie plays out.

Game manager QB = Death in the playoffs.

[LaChapelle]

610 has two weeks to come up with something to get people to call in
they took the easiest route to coast on

[OnTheWarpath15]

Don't be silly. When Cassel plays like he did yesterday, it will always net us 250 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. We won, therefore nothing went wrong.

That pretty much sums it up.

We're 3-0, therefore, this teams has no issues.

Please disperse. Nothing to see here.

[LaChapelle]

Milkman has a copy cat
I'm jealous

[DeezNutz]

ya, and last week it was we can't rely on defense and st's play.

you guys just keep setting yourself up.

Not defense and ST plays. Defensive and ST scores. Big difference.

I'll bank on the former all day long. The latter? Not so much.

[patteeu]

We're currently on course to be the 90s Chiefs, and I'm not even going to say with a better coaching staff, as some of those early 90s staffs were ****ing loaded.

Cassel is better than our 90s starting QBs (with the obvious exception of Joe Montana). I'd put Gannon ahead of Cassel too, but I don't think he's what you mean when you say we're on course to be the 90s Chiefs.

[Saccopoo]

The flea flicker was a good pass. I have seen plenty of QBs choke and throw horrible passes on plays like that. The guy threw for 3 TDs and 250 yards. Save the insults for when he actually deserves it.

The end around pass was dog shit. The fucking ball looked like it had helium in it it floated so much. The safety nearly got back to break up the pass the ball was in the air so long. Horrible throw.

All in all, I thought it was one of his lesser games.

And I'm not a Cassel basher by any means. You've got to go with what you got, but he seemed really off yesterday and got bailed out by some innovative play calling (the end around pass) and excellent individual effort (Moeaki's amazing grab and McCluster's excellent RAC).

[OnTheWarpath15]

B]Cassel is better than our 90s starting QBs[/B](with the obvious exception of Joe Montana). I'd put Gannon ahead of Cassel too, but I don't think he's what you mean when you say we're on course to be the 90s Chiefs.

No, he's not.

Even Grbac wasn't this wildly inaccurate.

[Chiefnj2]

That pretty much sums it up.

We're 3-0, therefore, this teams has no issues.

Please disperse. Nothing to see here.

Try to enjoy the victory for more than 10 minutes. There are a handful of people that enjoy bitching 1000x more than anything else.

We're 3-0. Enjoy it for a week.

Please disperse. Nothing to see here but a bunch of drafturbators who are pissed off everyone else isn't as miserable as they are and who are pissed off that Pioli and Haley apparently made some good moves this offseason.

[LaChapelle]

Well those 90's QBs had Jimmy Raye LOL

[DeezNutz]

Cassel is better than our 90s starting QBs (with the obvious exception of Joe Montana). I'd put Gannon ahead of Cassel too, but I don't think he's what you mean when you say we're on course to be the 90s Chiefs.

Grbac was far more talented. He was just a heartless and gutless pussy.

[stevieray]

So if a LB has 10 missed tackles, and 3 good tackles, did he have a good game? Would you want him to play like that all year?

if a LB makes ten thousand good tackles, and misses on three tackles that give up points, did he have a good game?

would you want him to play like that all year?

do great cb's get burned? do great qb's get intercepted?

there are no absolutes in football..great players can have shitty games, and mediocre players can have awesome games. to claim that every player is going to be phenomenal week in and week out is silly.

[beer bacon]

Just won 31-10 and our team is 3-0. Better get on Chiefsplanet so can I regurgitate for the 10,000th time why Cassel is horrible and I'm a genious!

[patteeu]

No, he's not.

Even Grbac wasn't this wildly inaccurate.

Grbac was a loser. He wasn't a leader. His team didn't like him. Even if he had a stronger arm and was more accurate on long throws, he was a worse QB than Cassel. BTW, Grbac wasn't any more accurate on short throws than Cassel. He was horrible and never hit a guy in stride.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Try to enjoy the victory for more than 10 minutes. There are a handful of people that enjoy bitching 1000x more than anything else.

We're 3-0. Enjoy it for a week.

Please disperse. Nothing to see here but a bunch of drafturbators who are pissed off everyone else isn't as miserable as they are and who are pissed off that Pioli and Haley apparently made some good moves this offseason.

I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

So much that I'm planning on buying tickets and making the drive for the Jacksonville game next month.

That doesn't mean that I don't see some glaring issues that will eventually catch up to this team.

Trust me, this isn't bitching.

Bitching will be when we start losing games because of these issues, instead of winning in spite of them.

[patteeu]

Grbac was far more talented. He was just a heartless and gutless pussy.

I agree. IMO, that makes Cassel > Grbac.

[beer bacon]

I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

So much that I'm planning on buying tickets and making the drive for the Jacksonville game next month.

That doesn't mean that I don't see some glaring issues that will eventually catch up to this team.

Trust me, this isn't bitching.

Bitching will be when we start losing games because of these issues, instead of winning in spite of them.

Yes, yes you will all see how much OnTheWarpath58 can bitch then. It will be glorious.

[jspchief]

What if your QB throws for 250 yards, 3 TDs, and one INT in a blowout victory? Would you want him to play like that all year?Like Cassel played? No. I don't want him to play all year like he did yesterday.

The end doesn't always justify the means. Look at the 2003 chiefs. What they did worked 13 times, and only failed 4 times. Does that mean our defense was good that year?

[Marcellus]

The end around pass was dog shit. The ****ing ball looked like it had helium in it it floated so much. The safety nearly got back to break up the pass the ball was in the air so long. Horrible throw.

All in all, I thought it was one of his lesser games.

And I'm not a Cassel basher by any means. You've got to go with what you got, but he seemed really off yesterday and got bailed out by some innovative play calling (the end around pass) and excellent individual effort (Moeaki's amazing grab and McCluster's excellent RAC).

He almost overthrew it so I would have to say it would have been pretty hard for the safety to break that pass up.

Bottom line is he threw 3 TD's.

You see QB's bailed out by good catches every single game. Brett Favre must have a horseshoe up his ass some of the plays his receivers have made over the years. (See great catch by Percy Harvin Sunday).


If you want to bitch, bitch about the dumbass interception or a couple of missed throws.

Bitching about TD's is fucking stupid.

Deal with it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Grbac was a loser. He wasn't a leader. His team didn't like him. Even if he had a stronger arm and was more accurate on long throws, he was a worse QB than Cassel. BTW, Grbac wasn't any more accurate on short throws than Cassel. He was horrible and never hit a guy in stride.

Cassel's a loser.

Cassel isn't a leader.

There was a report that members of the team resent him.

Cassel IS Grbac, with a weaker arm.

To say he's better is ridiculous.

[DeezNutz]

Grbac was a loser. He wasn't a leader. His team didn't like him. Even if he had a stronger arm and was more accurate on long throws, he was a worse QB than Cassel. BTW, Grbac wasn't any more accurate on short throws than Cassel. He was horrible and never hit a guy in stride.

Cassel is a leader? His teammates have confidence in his play?

[DeezNutz]

I agree. IMO, that makes Cassel > Grbac.

Ok, and I know what you're saying, but in this league you have to have the physical skill set for the intangibles to begin to matter.

It makes no difference how great of a guy Cassel may or may not be; he lacks the necessary skills ever to be more than mediocre at his position. And Chiefs fans, more than anyone, should know that this isn't good enough.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Like Cassel played? No. I don't want him to play all year like he did yesterday.

The end doesn't always justify the means. Look at the 2003 chiefs. What they did worked 13 times, and only failed 4 times. Does that mean our defense was good that year?

You're wasting your breath.

We're 3-0, this team has no problems.

Sadly, you're going to have to wait until we start losing a few games because of Cassel before people are willing to accept these points.

[-King-]

Welp.... I see what this thread is turning to.


Same shit, different day.

[keg in kc]

Yesterday's game was a microcosm of my nightmare vision for the season, where we win going away on what was ultimately a performance not nearly as impressive as his stat line would make you think. I thought he did play better, and while I don't think he's ever going to have pinpoint accuracy, he threw with more authority and seemed to feel more comfortable with what he's doing. His vision of the field appeared to be improved over prior weeks, as did his feel for what was going on. But it was the kind of tease that I'm terrified we'll see all season, "see, look, maybe he can play after all!" Nothing inherently spectacular, but enough to win. Unfortunately I think that game may be generally representative of his ceiling as a player, and it didn't do a whole lot to convince me that he has the physical tools to do the job at the level that I think we need for the team to be a legitimate championship contender. I think that's still in question. It was not "bad" in any way, and play like that could be enough to get this team to 8 or 9 wins this year after the start they've had, but is that enough, going forward?

[jspchief]

if a LB makes ten thousand good tackles, and misses on three tackles that give up points, did he have a good game?

would you want him to play like that all year?

do great cb's get burned? do great qb's get intercepted?

there are no absolutes in football..great players can have shitty games, and mediocre players can have awesome games. to claim that every player is going to be phenomenal week in and week out is silly.That's an entirely different point. I'm not claiming that I expect Cassel or anyone else to be perfect every game.

I'm saying Cassel did not play very well in this 1 particular game. His throws were inaccurate and lacked touch the majority of the day. The fact that we won doesn't change that.

[BigMeatballDave]

Cassel is better than our 90s starting QBs (with the obvious exception of Joe Montana). I'd put Gannon ahead of Cassel too, but I don't think he's what you mean when you say we're on course to be the 90s Chiefs.Deberg was better than Cassel is now. Bono is worse, no doubt.
Grbac was better, but he was a guttless turd.

[Chiefnj2]

Cassel is a leader? His teammates have confidence in his play?

Prove that they don't.

[DeezNutz]

Welp.... I see what this thread is turning to.


Same shit, different day.

I know. It's crazy. A Cassel thread turned into a discussion about Matt Cassel, and people have different views about the player.

I hope this is ok with everyone. If not, please post that you don't want to participate in this thread.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yesterday's game was a microcosm of my nightmare vision for the season, where we win going away on what was ultimately a performance not nearly as impressive as his stat line would make you think. I thought he did play better, and while I don't think he's ever going to have pinpoint accuracy, he threw with more authority and seemed to feel more comfortable with what he's doing. His vision of the field appeared to be improved over prior weeks, as did his feel for what was going on. But it was the kind of tease that I'm terrified we'll see all season, "see, look, maybe he can play after all!" Nothing inherently spectacular, but enough to win. Unfortunately I think that game may be generally representative of his ceiling as a player, and it didn't do a whole lot to convince me that he has the physical tools to do the job at the level that I think we need for the team to be a legitimate championship contender. I think that's still in question. It was not "bad" in any way, and play like that could be enough to get this team to 8 or 9 wins this year after the start they've had, but is that enough, going forward?

Rep.

[stevieray]

You're wasting your breath.

We're 3-0, this team has no problems.


geez, stop whining. you think haley is content? you don't think Haley wants to see continous improvement...?

no, hes' gonna let it all slide and let three victories proclaim mission accomplished...:rolleyes:

I find it absolutely hilarious watching people who proclaimed this team wasn't going to do SHIT this year, and then turn around and expect it to kick ass.

[patteeu]

Cassel is a leader?

Yes.

His teammates have confidence in his play?

I don't know, but I haven't heard anything to lead me to believe that they dislike him the way Grbac was disliked.

[DeezNutz]

Prove that they don't.

Where's the article from a little bit ago when approximately 3 players (Waters, Charles, someone else...not remembering) couldn't/wouldn't??? say one positive thing about his on-field play.

Believe it was a Mellinger column.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I know. It's crazy. A Cassel thread turned into a discussion about Matt Cassel, and people have different views about the player.

I hope this is ok with everyone. If not, please post that you don't want to participate in this thread.

LMAO

On that note, I'm heading to class.

[stevieray]

I'm saying Cassel did not play very well in this 1 particular game. His throws were inaccurate and lacked touch the majority of the day. The fact that we won doesn't change that.

so what?

[patteeu]

Cassel's a loser.

Cassel isn't a leader.

There was a report that members of the team resent him.

Cassel IS Grbac, with a weaker arm.

To say he's better is ridiculous.

How old were you when Grbac was playing? This post makes me think you don't remember him.

[Chiefnj2]

You're wasting your breath.

We're 3-0, this team has no problems.

Sadly, you're going to have to wait until we start losing a few games because of Cassel before people are willing to accept these points.

Sadly, we are all going to have to wait 39 seconds before you say "Cassel sucks" for the 534,435,345,345,000 time, and Deeznuts comes and says "rep".

[jspchief]

Welp.... I see what this thread is turning to.


Same shit, different day.Yea, who would have guessed a thread with "slamming cassel" in the title would have negative opinions about Cassel. :rolleyes:

[DeezNutz]

Sadly, we are all going to have to wait 39 seconds before you say "Cassel sucks" for the 534,435,345,345,000 time, and Deeznuts comes and says "rep".

Not my style, brah. Need to find a smaller brush.

[The Bad Guy]

There isn't a 3-0 team that is void of issues.

It's almost like some are putting their complaints out there so they can have added fuel to bitch an insane amount about this team.

We are always looking to the future instead of just enjoying these wins as we get them. Cassel does suck, but what sucked worse was winning 10 games in 3 years.

[jspchief]

so what?...So that's what this thread is about. How Cassel played yesterday.

Or at least thats how I interpreted the OP.

[patteeu]

Where the article from a little bit ago when approximately 3 players (Waters, Charles, someone else...not remembering) couldn't/wouldn't??? say one positive thing about his on-field play.

Believe it was a Mellinger column.

After two horrible games, it would be hard for anyone, including his mother, to come up with something good to say about Matt Cassel's "on-field play".

I'm not a Cassel fan (never have been, even when he was supposedly playing well in NE) and I would love to see the Chiefs look for a difference making QB next off-season, preferably in the draft. But despite the guy's physical shortcomings, he's got a lot of things you look for in a QB. I think that's what attracted Scott Pioli to him, because even in his year playing for the Patriots it would have been hard not to notice his difficulty throwing an accurate long ball.

[chiefsnorth]

You're wasting your breath.

We're 3-0, this team has no problems.

Has a single person said that? Or is this just a straw man argument?

[patteeu]

Deberg was better than Cassel is now. Bono is worse, no doubt.
Grbac was better, but he was a guttless turd.

Deberg had some of the same physical shortcomings that Cassel has. At the point in his career that he was with the Chiefs, he had a ton more experience so I'll give you that. For just one season, I'd take that Deberg over this Cassel. If I'm hoping to get a long term QB out of the deal, I'd take Cassel over Deberg, but I wouldn't be happy about my situation.

[keg in kc]

I'm not a Cassel fan (never have been, even when he was supposedly playing well in NE) and I would love to see the Chiefs look for a difference making QB next off-season, preferably in the draft. But despite the guy's physical shortcomings, he's got a lot of things you look for in a QB. I think that's what attracted Scott Pioli to him, because even in his year playing for the Patriots it would have been hard not to notice his difficulty throwing an accurate long ball.I believe you're absolutely correct about this.

[DeezNutz]

"Some things have never been in doubt with Cassel. His passion, leadership and determination are impressive, and those have helped him earn his teammates’ respect. Ask them about Cassel, and these are the things they say about him:

“Matt is a wonderful person,” running back Jamaal Charles says. “A nice person.”

“He has a great work ethic,” wide receiver Chris Chambers says.

“As a person,” left guard Brian Waters says, “he’s definitely more comfortable and definitely more confident.”

But what about his skills? Succeeding at this level, in this league, at this position is about ability more than anything. Cassel’s preseason was forgettable; he threw two interceptions and fumbled twice, overshadowing his three touchdown passes.

With that in mind, does Cassel’s talent match his character? Those same teammates, given a chance to endorse their quarterback’s ability, instead dodge the question. They’re in offensive meetings with Cassel, and they watch game and practice footage of their quarterback. But asked directly if they see an improvement in Cassel’s play — not his personality — and the players hesitate."

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/09/11/1431021/chiefs-qb-cassel-has-questions.html

[Mr. Flopnuts]

That pretty much sums it up.

We're 3-0, therefore, this teams has no issues.

Please disperse. Nothing to see here.

I'm definitely not saying that, but I am saying there is a time and place for everything. Matt deserved every oz. of criticism he got the first two weeks of the year. Yesterday there was some improvement. I'm totally moving on from the 60 million dollar man, because like Tyson Jackson, he's never going to "earn" that money. Hopefully he can be a game manager. But I'll save my criticism of him for days we don't win 31-10.

[baitism]

The main problem I see with Chiefs fans is that they are content with just making the playoffs, not wanting what is necessary to win a super bowl. I agree with the above posts about this team looking like the 90s Chiefs teams, and we all know how the playoffs went for them.

Why do people get upset that people are pointing out Cassel's flaws? I, for one, don't want to see this rookie class (and probably our only chance to win a SB in the near future) wasted when they are in their prime because of mediocre QB play, just like the 90s.

I would have thought if anyone would have understood this, it would have been Chiefs fans.

Well, at least I can take comfort in the fact that Pioli and Haley will not be happy with just making the playoffs.

[keg in kc]

I'm definitely not saying that, but I am saying there is a time and place for everything. Matt deserved every oz. of criticism he got the first two weeks of the year. Yesterday there was some improvement. I'm totally moving on from the 60 million dollar man, because like Tyson Jackson, he's never going to "earn" that money. Hopefully he can be a game manager. But I'll save my criticism of him for days we don't win 31-10.Fuck that shit.






The score was 31-3. Even if it wasn't.

[Chiefnj2]

"Some things have never been in doubt with Cassel. His passion, leadership and determination are impressive, and those have helped him earn his teammates’ respect. Ask them about Cassel, and these are the things they say about him:

“Matt is a wonderful person,” running back Jamaal Charles says. “A nice person.”

“He has a great work ethic,” wide receiver Chris Chambers says.

“As a person,” left guard Brian Waters says, “he’s definitely more comfortable and definitely more confident.”

But what about his skills? Succeeding at this level, in this league, at this position is about ability more than anything. Cassel’s preseason was forgettable; he threw two interceptions and fumbled twice, overshadowing his three touchdown passes.

With that in mind, does Cassel’s talent match his character? Those same teammates, given a chance to endorse their quarterback’s ability, instead dodge the question. They’re in offensive meetings with Cassel, and they watch game and practice footage of their quarterback. But asked directly if they see an improvement in Cassel’s play — not his personality — and the players hesitate."

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/09/11/1431021/chiefs-qb-cassel-has-questions.html

You question his leadership and then post an article that says "Some things have never been in doubt with Cassel. His passion, leadership and determination are impressive, and those have helped him earn his teammates’ respect."

You fail more than Cassel fails as a QB.

[KCTitus]

Im still not sold on Cassel...the most infuriating thing about him seems to be his reluctance to throw the ball. If everyone's covered get rid of the damn ball out of bounds stop running around with the ball. I tend to think he panics. Given the beatings he took last year, I can understand.

I really enjoyed the aggressive play calling of Haley...for all the comparisons to the 90's Chiefs, Marty doesnt call onside kicks or flea flickers when the team has a lead. He plays not to lose and Haley appears to play to win.

[Dave Lane]

The flea flicker was a good pass. I have seen plenty of QBs choke and throw horrible passes on plays like that. The guy threw for 3 TDs and 250 yards. Save the insults for when he actually deserves it.

This jesus fucking christ save it for when he costs us a game.

I dare any of you to throw a ball threw a window at 45 yards. It may look easy it ain't

[luv]

The score was 31-3. Even if it wasn't.

Agreed.

[keg in kc]

I really enjoyed the aggressive play calling of Haley...for all the comparisons to the 90's Chiefs, Marty doesnt call onside kicks or flea flickers when the team has a lead. He plays not to lose and Haley appears to play to win.I think that's a fair point. Running the ball does not necessarily equal martyball. It almost struck me like a hyper-aggressive Cowher game. Not that I was ever particularly enamored with Cowher, but he did get his teams to the title game.

I think, though, that they're really just trying to get the most they can out of the weapons they have.

[petegz28]

Cassel had a good game, regardless of how bad he sucks. No sacks, 1 INT, stood in the pocket to take the hit and made some key passes that allowed the talent around him to produce. It was one game. This does not mean Cassel no longer sucks. But a good game is a good game and I won't kick a guy when is down and played a good game.

I'm surpirsed Deez and OTWP aren't crying that Cassel's passes took carries away from Charles? LMAO

[DeezNutz]

You question his leadership and then post an article that says "Some things have never been in doubt with Cassel. His passion, leadership and determination are impressive, and those have helped him earn his teammates’ respect."

You fail more than Cassel fails as a QB.

This was the article I had in mind. The concerns were obviously directed, as I mentioned, at his on-field play.

Do I question his leadership? Yes. Obviously this isn't a straight "news" story by Babb.

I'm sorry that this discussion has wounded you. Oh, and how's Colt McCoy doing?

[Dave Lane]

The main problem I see with Chiefs fans is that they are content with just making the playoffs, not wanting what is necessary to win a super bowl. I agree with the above posts about this team looking like the 90s Chiefs teams, and we all know how the playoffs went for them.

Why do people get upset that people are pointing out Cassel's flaws? I, for one, don't want to see this rookie class (and probably our only chance to win a SB in the near future) wasted when they are in their prime because of mediocre QB play, just like the 90s.

I would have thought if anyone would have understood this, it would have been Chiefs fans.

Well, at least I can take comfort in the fact that Pioli and Haley will not be happy with just making the playoffs.

So your thought is we were going to correct every problem on a 2-14 team in a year?

[DeezNutz]

Cassel is a leader? His teammates have confidence in his play?

Where's the article from a little bit ago when approximately 3 players (Waters, Charles, someone else...not remembering) couldn't/wouldn't??? say one positive thing about his on-field play.

Believe it was a Mellinger column.

You question his leadership and then post an article that says "Some things have never been in doubt with Cassel. His passion, leadership and determination are impressive, and those have helped him earn his teammates’ respect."

You fail more than Cassel fails as a QB.

If you want to be intellectually dishonest, be my guest.

[BigChiefFan]

I think the point is, Cassel showed he can complete the long throws and showed improvement as the game went on. He played a good game. People already know he didn't play great last year, the stats lines show that. The team is DIFFERENT THIS YEAR. NOBODY KNOWS how good they can become, but damn show some pride for the team, you supposedly love. We ALL KNOW Cassel, still has question marks. The only way to see if he can ANSWER, is to PLAY.

[TRR]

The commentator yesterday talked about the light turning on in the second half of the Cleveland game. Cassel carried that over for the most part in the SF game. It also doesn't hurt to have Weis play to Cassel's strengths.
Posted via Mobile Device

[stevieray]

I think the point is, Cassel showed he can complete the long throws and showed improvement as the game went on. He played a good game. People already know he didn't play great last year, the stats lines show that. The team is DIFFERENT THIS YEAR. NOBODY KNOWS how good they can become, but damn show some pride for the team, you supposedly love. We ALL KNOW Cassel, still has question marks. The only way to see if he can ANSWER, is to PLAY.

Yup, to think he doesn't know this is absurd. Do or die. Pretty much the theme of this coaching staff. He'll be gone if doesn't improve..does anyone honestly doubt that?

I think this is why we're starting to see a team with an idenitity.... our special teams and defense have been horrid...not anymore..showing improvement. Two of three phases of the game are looking up in a relatively short amount of time. I expect this coaching staff to continue to elevate the offense.

when we had the great offense with DV, but a crappy defense..how did that work out for us?

fortunately the pressure to put up a ton of points to win is squelched by the defense...therefore giving breathing space for the offense to improve.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

The commentator yesterday talked about the light turning on in the second half of the Cleveland game. Cassel carried that over for the most part in the SF game. It also doesn't hurt to have Weis play to Cassel's strengths.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, I disagree with that. He still overthrows his receivers, by a lot. And that pick yesterday was all his fault. He threw the ball too late. I don't think there is a "light" to go on. Matt is what he is. Weis will have to work with it, which he's doing. So maybe Charlie's "light" went on in the 2nd half of the Cleveland game.

[Chiefnj2]

Yeah, I disagree with that. He still overthrows his receivers, by a lot. And that pick yesterday was all his fault. He threw the ball too late. I don't think there is a "light" to go on. Matt is what he is. Weis will have to work with it, which he's doing. So maybe Charlie's "light" went on in the 2nd half of the Cleveland game.

Glass half empty = he threw a pick, he overthrows, he threw high to Moeaki.

Glass half full = he threw three TDs, his completion % was acceptable, he didn't take any sacks, the pass to Moeaki was high, but he threw a 20 yard ball on a rope and went for the TD instead of the checkoff to an open Bowe.

[BigChiefFan]

Yup, to think he doesn't know this is absurd. Do or die. Pretty much the theme of this coaching staff. He'll be gone if doesn't improve..does anyone honestly doubt that?

I think this is why we're starting to see a team with an idenitity.... our special teams and defense have been horrid...not anymore..showing improvement. Two of three phases of the game are looking up in a relatively short amount of time. I expect this caching staff to continue to elevate the offense.

when we had the great offense with DV, but a crappy defense..how did that work out for us?

fortunately the pressure to put up a ton of points to win is squelched by the defense...therefore giving breathing space for the offense to improve.

Yes, it's the first time, I've seen us have a balanced team in eons. The future looks bright, IMO. I really like the direction of the team.

[BigMeatballDave]

There isn't a 3-0 team that is void of issues.

It's almost like some are putting their complaints out there so they can have added fuel to bitch an insane amount about this team.

We are always looking to the future instead of just enjoying these wins as we get them. Cassel does suck, but what sucked worse was winning 10 games in 3 years.I get what you're saying. I completely agree, but I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I cringe every time I see Cassel in the pocket. I'm to the point now with him that I'm just waiting for him to make a mistake. I hate it.

[suds79]

This jesus ****ing christ save it for when he costs us a game.

I dare any of you to throw a ball threw a window at 45 yards. It may look easy it ain't

I always love it when people throw out the "well I'd like to see you do better."

Seriously? They're professional athletes and that's their job. Of course they could do better. It's an absurd argument.

If being better than average Joes is the litmus test, then we should have a SB caliber team here.

[boogblaster]

No he's not a pro-bowler .. but if can play in his game .. which is short passing to crossing patterns and trailing patterns he should end up 10 times better than last year ....

[|Zach|]

I get what you're saying. I completely agree, but I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I cringe every time I see Cassel in the pocket. I'm to the point now with him that I'm just waiting for him to make a mistake. I hate it.

Sucks to be you.

[clyde05]

:spock:
this

[clyde05]

If he caught it, it is not an overthrow.

i meant this one--THIS

['Hamas' Jenkins]

In reality, two of his three TDs were all done by the receivers and the 3rd was a throw that any NFL QB could make in his sleep.

You can't set the high jump bar at 6" and get excited when he clears it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

If he can play like that for the year, this is a playoff team. And no, I don't mean a back in the playoffs type of team. I mean a win the division type of team.

Yep. If he continues to improve each week and not regress, and if he plays like he did on Sunday against Indy and we win, I'm done riding his ass for the year and it's time to gear up for a RUN.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Im still not sold on Cassel...the most infuriating thing about him seems to be his reluctance to throw the ball. If everyone's covered get rid of the damn ball out of bounds stop running around with the ball. I tend to think he panics. Given the beatings he took last year, I can understand.

I really enjoyed the aggressive play calling of Haley...for all the comparisons to the 90's Chiefs, Marty doesnt call onside kicks or flea flickers when the team has a lead. He plays not to lose and Haley appears to play to win.

The comparisons to the 1990's Chiefs were QB based, not coaching, IMO.

Everyone remembers those teams. Enough talent to win consistently and be a force in the playoffs.

Except the QB held them back.

Same thing is likely going to happen here.

Let's say for sake of argument, that the Class of 2010 is going to be everything they've shown through 3 weeks of their NFL career.

That means all the pieces of the puzzle necessary to make some noise in the postseason are in place - minus the most important position on the field.

Sure, his contract makes it easy to cut him loose after this season.

But then what?

You either draft and develop a franchise QB, and know he's going to go through 2-4 years of growing pains while the rest of your team is ready to compete, or you throw a band-aid on it and sign a stopgap veteran and hope he catches lightning in a bottle.

Draft a QB and you've closed the window on guys like DJ, Hali, Waters, Weigmann, Lilja, etc. They'll all be out of their prime in 3-4 years. Opportunity wasted.

Sign a stop gap, who's likely nothing more than Cassel anyway, because elite QB's aren't available via FA, and not only is the likelihood of winning a championship with him slim and none, you've delayed addressing the problem to begin with. Add another year or two to the 3-4 you were waiting for a Franchise QB to get it, and you're looking at this draft class getting only a couple of years to win it all, instead of having a dynasty where you are a factor every year.

All because instead of drafting and developing a QB, like Clark supposedly does, we've avoided it for 27 fucking years.

Of COURSE people are looking to the future, because we've all seen glimpses of the talent on this team and can visualize that talent being part of something special very soon. We just hope it doesn't go to waste, and there's no evidence to think it won't be wasted by shitty QB play, IMO.

[dirk digler]

I am just happy we are back to trashing Cassel again instead of bitching about RB carries.

[Chiefnj2]

The comparisons to the 1990's Chiefs were QB based, not coaching, IMO.

Everyone remembers those teams. Enough talent to win consistently and be a force in the playoffs.

Except the QB held them back.



They made the playoffs with 5 different QBs who varied greatly in talent.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They made the playoffs with 5 different QBs who varied greatly in talent.

And that confirms it.

People are perfectly content with playoff appearances, not championships.

3 wins in 10 playoff games in the 1990's.

No coincidence that 2 of the 3 wins were with an elite QB who was a shade past his prime, while the majority of the losses were with "game managers" under center.

[Chiefnj2]

And that confirms it.

People are perfectly content with playoff appearances, not championships.

.

Where the fuck do you get this from?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

The flea flicker was a good pass. I have seen plenty of QBs choke and throw horrible passes on plays like that. The guy threw for 3 TDs and 250 yards. Save the insults for when he actually deserves it.

And how many did Orton and Rivers throw for yesterday. Cassel is holding this team back. And yes, the throw to Moeaki was not a good throw.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Where the fuck do you get this from?

How about your dumbass post that they "made the playoffs" under 5 different QB's.

Who gives a shit that they made the playoffs?

The entire point of the post that you only partially quoted was that those teams had the talent necessary to win a championship at every position BUT QB.

Something I, and several others see happening again here in KC.

[BigChiefFan]

Franchise QBs grow on trees, right? Outside of a handful of QBs playing in the league, I don't see these franchise QBs that some propose we just go and get. Not even half of the teams in the league have franchise QBs, let alone us going out and just picking one up. Outside of Sanchez, who have we exactly passed on under this regime?

[DeezNutz]

Franchise QBs grow on trees, right? Outside of a handful of QBs playing in the league, I don't see these franchise QBs that some propose we just go and get. Not even half of the teams in the league have franchise QBs, let alone us going out and just picking one up. Outside of Sanchez, who have we exactly passed on under this regime?

Sanchez doesn't even really count because that was during our "evaluation year."

Suppose we could have tried to secure some insurance with Clausen in the second round this year?

[Chiefnj2]

How about your dumbass post that they "made the playoffs" under 5 different QB's.

Who gives a shit that they made the playoffs?

The entire point of the post that you only partially quoted was that those teams had the talent necessary to win a championship at every position BUT QB.

Something I, and several others see happening again here in KC.

You said the 90s chiefs fell flat because of the QB's. I was just pointing out that there were 5 pretty different QB's guiding those teams. They actually lost most of those games not because of the QB, although Krieg was really bad, but because of kicking.

[keg in kc]

The comparisons to the 1990's Chiefs were QB based, not coaching, IMO.

Everyone remembers those teams. Enough talent to win consistently and be a force in the playoffs.

Except the QB held them back.That was to me more a factor of marty on the sidelines than whoever was behind center at the time. He was the constant. His style of football, his decisions during the game. His quarterbacks were all more than good enough to win playoff games. He was not. That's not to say the two issues aren't inextricably tied - as we all know in 1993 it took a hall of fame QB to overcome his January incompetence - but the real issue was always him.


That's not to say I don't want our own Tom Brady on the sidelines here. If the choices are Trent Dilfer or Tom Brady, I'd rather have several superbowl appearances than 1, a legacy rather than an aberration. But you don't have to have Peyton Manning. He just makes it a whole hell of a lot easier and gives you a greater margin for error...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Franchise QBs grow on trees, right? Outside of a handful of QBs playing in the league, I don't see these franchise QBs that some propose we just go and get. Not even half of the teams in the league have franchise QBs, let alone us going out and just picking one up. Outside of Sanchez, who have we exactly passed on under this regime?

Who limited it to this regime?

Certainly not me, who said, "we've avoided it for 27 fucking years."

Think about all the franchise QB's we've passed on (and yes, last I checked you do have the ability to move up in the draft, and should for a QB) in the past 10 years, much less the last 27.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You said the 90s chiefs fell flat because of the QB's. I was just pointing out that there were 5 pretty different QB's guiding those teams. They actually lost most of those games not because of the QB, although Krieg was really bad, but because of kicking.

You didn't even bother to read the entire post, or you'd realize that's not at all the point of the post.

WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS IS THE GOAL.

That doesn't happen with game manager QB's.

[Earthling]

You didn't even bother to read the entire post, or you'd realize that's not at all the point of the post.

WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS IS THE GOAL.

That doesn't happen with game manager QB's.

Trent Dilfer

[Chiefnj2]

You didn't even bother to read the entire post, or you'd realize that's not at all the point of the post.

WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS IS THE GOAL.

That doesn't happen with game manager QB's.

It does happen. Not as frequently as Brady's and Elways, but it happens - Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson. Heck some people would say Eli and Simms.

[Fish]

Trent Dilfer

Yeah... and some dude managed to make a rocketship in his backyard once using old spare parts. Since one guy did it, we should probably eliminate NASA altogether...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Draft a QB and you've closed the window on guys like DJ, Hali, Waters, Weigmann, Lilja, etc. They'll all be out of their prime in 3-4 years. Opportunity wasted.



I never expected those careers to be around long enough to win a Championship, and I still don't.

With all due respect, I throw their NFL golden years right on to the LJ bonfire without hesitation if it gets me a franchise QB who can lead this team to post-season victory as the class of 2008 is in it's prime.

EDIT: And I don't count DJ as part of that group either.

[DeezNutz]

Yeah... and some dude managed to make a rocketship in his backyard once using old spare parts. Since one guy did it, we should probably eliminate NASA altogether...

Was this bitch ever 3-0, though? Quit bitching.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Trent Dilfer

It does happen. Not as frequently as Brady's and Elways, but it happens - Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson. Heck some people would say Eli and Simms.

Wow.

One in the past 10 years.

The odds are definitely in our favor.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah... and some dude managed to make a rocketship in his backyard once using old spare parts. Since one guy did it, we should probably eliminate NASA altogether...

ROFL

[Earthling]

Yeah... and some dude managed to make a rocketship in his backyard once using old spare parts. Since one guy did it, we should probably eliminate NASA altogether...

Or never say never...huh? Dilfer was funny in that his contract was not extended the next year, even after they won the Super Bowl, by Balt or picked up by any other team either IIRC

[BigChiefFan]

Sanchez doesn't even really count because that was during our "evaluation year."

Suppose we could have tried to secure some insurance with Clausen in the second round this year?

Knowing that Weiss had first hand knowledge of his play, I'm sure we made the right move. I think Clausen is overrated and he certainly wasn't considered much of a FRANCHISE QB, hence his slipping on draft day. Does he have potential? Sure, all rookies do, but I wouldn't consider him a QB you draft and then believe your needs are met for the next 15 years.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Wow.

One in the past 10 years.

The odds are definitely in our favor.

ROFL

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Knowing that Weiss had first hand knowledge of his play, I'm sure we made the right move. I think Clausen is overrated and he certainly wasn't considered much of a FRANCHISE QB, hence his slipping on draft day. Does he have potential? Sure, all rookies do, but I wouldn't consider him a QB you draft and then believe your needs are met for the next 15 years.

Weis certainly did...

Just sayin'.

[DeezNutz]

Knowing that Weiss had first hand knowledge of his play, I'm sure we made the right move. I think Clausen is overrated and he certainly wasn't considered much of a FRANCHISE QB, hence his slipping on draft day. Does he have potential? Sure, all rookies do, but I wouldn't consider him a QB you draft and then believe your needs are met for the next 15 years.

He might not be, thus "insurance," which would have been especially attractive in the second round.

[beer bacon]

And how many did Orton and Rivers throw for yesterday. Cassel is holding this team back. And yes, the throw to Moeaki was not a good throw.

Apologies if you are being sarcastic. I am going to respond as if you are being serious. Orton threw for 476 yards. The Broncos only scored 13 points and they lost. Rivers threw for 455. His team scored 20 points and lost. The top five passing leaders all lost this week.

[BigChiefFan]

He might not be, thus "insurance," which would have been especially attractive in the second round.

I understand your point, we just differ on Clausen's skillset. Nobody is disputing having a franchise QB is huge.

I'm just pointing out that is certainly isn't as easy as some make it sound.

[Fish]

Or never say never...huh? Dilfer was funny in that his contract was not extended the next year, even after they won the Super Bowl, by Balt or picked up by any other team either IIRC

I'm just pointing out that your long complicated list of all these game manager SB winning QBs leaves us on the wrong side of any logical expectations. It's great to be the exception to the rule, but is that really what we should strive for when talking about our franchise's future?

[Mecca]

We still need a QB no question about that, but after what we've seen before yesterday looked like a miracle.

The Chiefs have an opportunity to win a lot of games if Cassel can just be ok, not that is what I want the teams long term goal to be as we'll be back to the 90s but it is what it is for now.

[DeezNutz]

I understand your point, we just differ on Clausen's skillset. Nobody is disputing having a franchise QB is huge.

I'm just pointing out that is certainly isn't as easy as some make it sound.

Fair enough, and I don't think it's easy at all. But trying is the key, and this franchise has been on the short end of this concept for the past two decades.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

We still need a QB no question about that, but after what we've seen before yesterday looked like a miracle.

The Chiefs have an opportunity to win a lot of games if Cassel can just be ok, not that is what I want the teams long term goal to be as we'll be back to the 90s but it is what it is for now.

Yep. If he can improve just a little bit each game, we'll be looking solid by December.

[Saul Good]

This thread is retarded. We don't have a franchise QB. We have Matt Cassel. No matter what happens, we are not going to have a franchise QB on our roster this year.

That said, how did Cassel, a crappy QB, play yesterday? He played a very good game. He wasn't Peyton Manning nor Tom Brady, and he never will be, but he played well. I will take that level of play every game from him. We won't get it every game, as that was pretty close to his ceiling, but we can play with any team in the league when Cassel plays at the level he did yesterday.

[BigMeatballDave]

Sucks to be you.It does, but not for this reason. :)

[DaneMcCloud]

It does happen. Not as frequently as Brady's and Elways, but it happens - Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson. Heck some people would say Eli and Simms.

How many years ago was this? A "game manager" isn't going to cut it in 2010. Did you see last year's Super Bowl? Manning and Brees. Are they "game managers"?

And Brad Johnson was hardly a game manager. While he and Dilfer had the benefit of excellent defenses, Johnson he threw for more than 3,000 yards and 22 TD's in 13 regular season games. He'd thrown for more than 4,000 yards in his career and played for 17 years.

He's hardly what I'd call a "game manager".

We can only hope that Cassel can become a "game manager" this season.

[Rausch]

And Brad Johnson was hardly a game manager.

Johnson was a fucking game manager.

End of story...

[BigMeatballDave]

How many years ago was this? A "game manager" isn't going to cut it in 2010. Did you see last year's Super Bowl? Manning and Brees. Are they "game managers"?

And Brad Johnson was hardly a game manager. While he and Dilfer had the benefit of excellent defenses, Johnson he threw for more than 3,000 yards and 22 TD's in 13 regular season games. He'd thrown for more than 4,000 yards in his career and played for 17 years.

He's hardly what I'd call a "game manager".

We can only hope that Cassel can become a "game manager" this season.Eh, I'd have to say Johnson is a game manager. He's no playmaker. Way better than Dilfer.

[DaneMcCloud]

Johnson was a fucking game manager.

End of story...

Wow, I never saw him as a game manager.

[Mr. Laz]

yesterday was an improvement

if yesterday becomes the "baseline" and he continues to improve then cool

no, he doesn't have to throw 3 TD's each game, i'm talking about making some throws.

[petegz28]

I just thought it shitty of 610 to slam Cassel the way they did after he played a good game. By all measures, yesterday was a good performance from our QB that is not worthy of player hate. Cassel isn't that good and we all know it. But fuck man, if the guy has a good game give him credit. No need to piss in his wheaties when he doesn't deserve it.

[KChiefs1]

Cassel's last game & a half has been pretty good. What's his QB rating over the last 6 quarters?

[DeezNutz]

But **** man, if the guy has a good game give him credit.

Sure.

And still waiting.

[smittysbar]

The main problem I see with Chiefs fans is that they are content with just making the playoffs, not wanting what is necessary to win a super bowl. I agree with the above posts about this team looking like the 90s Chiefs teams, and we all know how the playoffs went for them.

Why do people get upset that people are pointing out Cassel's flaws? I, for one, don't want to see this rookie class (and probably our only chance to win a SB in the near future) wasted when they are in their prime because of mediocre QB play, just like the 90s.

I would have thought if anyone would have understood this, it would have been Chiefs fans.

Well, at least I can take comfort in the fact that Pioli and Haley will not be happy with just making the playoffs.

:clap:

[Hootie]

The Steelers won a Super Bowl when Big Ben was nothing but a game manager...

and so did the Patriots.

So the 1 in 10 years thing is bullshit.

[Saul Good]

The Steelers won a Super Bowl when Big Ben was nothing but a game manager...

and so did the Patriots.

So the 1 in 10 years thing is bullshit.

I broke down every Superbowl in a thread a couple of months ago. It's about 50-50 game managers to franchise QBs, but don't tell that to the usual suspects.

[Earthling]

I'm just pointing out that your long complicated list of all these game manager SB winning QBs leaves us on the wrong side of any logical expectations. It's great to be the exception to the rule, but is that really what we should strive for when talking about our franchise's future?

Sorry KC Fish but ya lost me there pard. I never had a long complicated list of anything lately except for some hippie chicks I thought I could score with.
I was merely pointing out that a game manager qb CAN get the Super Bowl ring as it was kind of implied that they could not. Do I prefer that type of qb?? Nope, I'd rather have a dynamic game changer in the vein of Manning.

[BigMeatballDave]

The Steelers won a Super Bowl when Big Ben was nothing but a game manager...

and so did the Patriots.

So the 1 in 10 years thing is bullshit.Why do you feel the need to act like a complete moron at times?

[Hootie]

Why do you feel the need to act like a complete moron at times?

ok?

Big Ben was a game manager when they beat the Seahawks for his 1st championship...

Tom Brady was a game manager when they beat the Rams for his 1st championship...

anything else?

[DeezNutz]

ok?

Big Ben was a game manager when they beat the Seahawks for his 1st championship...

Tom Brady was a game manager when they beat the Rams for his 1st championship...

anything else?

This is taking a blunt instrument to a more nuanced problem. While I understand what you're saying about Ruthlessberger, you have to consider where he was in his career and his relative upside. Thus, it's disingenuous to make this contention, relative to other QBs.

Put it this way, most would be thrilled to have a young ass game manager at this point, if he had the potential to develop into more than that.

[Hootie]

This is taking a blunt instrument to a more nuanced problem. While I understand what you're saying about Ruthlessberger, you have to consider where he was in his career and his relative upside. Thus, it's disingenuous to make this contention, relative to other QBs.

Put it this way, most would be thrilled to have a young ass game manager at this point, if he had the potential to develop into more than that.

not my point whatsoever...

my point was

regardless of what ceiling Matt Cassel has

teams have won Super Bowls...even recently...without great QB play

the Bears got to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman at QB

while I do agree that QB is definitely a position that is more important than any other in sports...

it doesn't necessarily mean a team can't win a Super Bowl if a few things go their way...

Right now we have a top tier defense and THE top tier running game...

who's to say what our ceiling is this year?

[DeezNutz]

Right now we have a top tier defense and THE top tier running game...

who's to say what our ceiling is this year?

I agree with not putting limitations on any team unnecessarily, but the problem is that we have to try to think about the most logical direction for the long term, which explains why I hate Cassel as a player.

[Hootie]

we know everyone hates cassel

we get it

but 3-0 and maybe he'll build confidence circa 2008 and get better week in and week out...just like he did in New England

who knows
who knows

[Saul Good]

I agree with not putting limitations on any team unnecessarily, but the problem is that we have to try to think about the most logical direction for the long term, which explains why I hate Cassel as a player.

Fair enough, but that has nothing to do with this year or, more specifically, yesterday's performance.

[DeezNutz]

Fair enough, but that has nothing to do with this year or, more specifically, yesterday's performance.

Great team performance and outstanding coaching. Probably should have put coaching first, actually.

[Hootie]

Great team performance and outstanding coaching. Probably should have put coaching first, actually.

Cool...

If that's what it takes for us to win games...sign me up.

[DeezNutz]

Cool...

If that's what it takes for us to win games...sign me up.

Ok. I don't disagree with that. All I'm saying is that when you have shortcomings in the most important areas, it doesn't leave much room for error. Can it be done? Sure, I suppose.

It does, however, seem like we've seen this script before. Perhaps having a more agressive HC will change the ending? No clue...

[Hammock Parties]

Some fans believe. Especially when they see flea flickers.

This is the amazing talent I've always believed was there within Cassel & Bowe as QB & WR!

[Straight, No Chaser]

ok?

Big Ben was a game manager when they beat the Seahawks for his 1st championship...

Tom Brady was a game manager when they beat the Rams for his 1st championship...

anything else?

Put your hard-on back in your pants. Both QBs you mention developed in to BIG game quarterbacks. Cassel is more Trent Dilfer at this point than anything else except he's fat contract. Maybe I'm going out on a limb but the Chiefs "D" ain't the RayRay led Ravens this year.

--

[petegz28]

Sure.

And still waiting.

You're really unbelievable at times. I am sure you are just mad because his passes took away carries that Charles could have had.

[MadMax]

Put your hard-on back in your pants. Both QBs you mention developed in to BIG game quarterbacks. Cassel is more Trent Dilfer at this point than anything else except he's fat contract. Maybe I'm going out on a limb but the Chiefs "D" ain't the RayRay led Ravens this year.

--





You just dissed Trent dildofer... ROFL!!!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Some fans believe. Especially when they see flea flickers.

ROFL Did that high comedy come from WIPE or the Turdalition?

Sure.

And still waiting.

LMAO Way to harsh our mellow, brah.

[kcfanXIII]

Only person on 610 worth listening to is the scabrous Nick Wright. All the others are trash. Fescoe literally knows NOTHING about football. It's amazing listening to him. Shariff doesn't know much about sports so he sticks to stories dealing with things around sport and not the sport itself.

i agree, mostly. i think fescoe is at least entertaining though. shariff needs to be run out of town. let him go back to his big market he came from. last time i listened to his show, he was yammering on about how arrowhead was ranked so low on a list of toughest places to play. he was trying to rile up the kc natives, who have accepted the fact that arrowhead isn't what it was 6 years ago or so. at that point i realized he had no idea what being from kc is all about. then he started in with the favre talk, and this was when the royals were playing their best baseball of the summer. sure, the royals suck, and aren't much fun to talk about, but when they are winning or on a hot streak, the fans in this town care more about the royals then they do about whether or not favre will be back. i find Wright to be highly entertaining though, and he is a far better option then golf/bbq talk on BTL.

[johnny961]

He looked competent. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with it.

This sums it up. Do I think Cassel had a better game? Yes. He did have some good throws and he appeared to do a better job of getting rid of the ball instead of hanging on for a sack. Still, too many balls were overthrown, underthrown, or just plainly poorly thrown. And there was more than one play where he made the wrong read and tried to force the ball to a receiver that was covered when there were open receivers to throw to. And I wasn't the only one seeing this. Everybody around our group in the stands was seeing the same thing. I'm not trying to be a hater. I'm just trying to be objective here. That 112 QB rating is misleading. The playmakers around him definately elevated his stats. Cassel had an improved game, yes, and props to him for that. But, he has alot of room for improvement. Whether or not Weis can extract much more out of him is a question that has yet to be answered. I'm thrilled that we're 3-0, and I sincerely beleive that this team is headed in the right direction. But our play at QB has to improve either through an improved Matt Cassel or a change at QB before we have a real good chance at making a run deep into the playoffs. Just my .02.

[michaelj_58]

he was stepping in to his throws better yesterday

[The Bad Guy]

we know everyone hates cassel

we get it

but 3-0 and maybe he'll build confidence circa 2008 and get better week in and week out...just like he did in New England

who knows
who knows

This is a pretty good point here.

The Chiefs haven't played with confidence in roughly 7 years. Starting off 3-0, with a group of rookies who are growing up each week, and a pack of veterans who see the fruits of their hard work paying off can only mean good things moving forward.

I don't know what the ceiling is for this year's team. What I do know is teams that start getting confidence and gelling at the right time can make some noise.

[The Bad Guy]

Put your hard-on back in your pants. Both QBs you mention developed in to BIG game quarterbacks. Cassel is more Trent Dilfer at this point than anything else except he's fat contract. Maybe I'm going out on a limb but the Chiefs "D" ain't the RayRay led Ravens this year.

--

Yes, developed.

However, they weren't anything more than game-managers at the time they won their first.

I'm not saying Cassel could win a Super Bowl, but the notion that just about every QB who win SB's are franchise guys is completely off.