If the addition of ONE original Chief would make this year's team a SB contender...

[Frankie]

.. which one would it be? By "original" I mean drafted and developed by the Chiefs or moved to KC with the team. Also think of them by impact at their peak, not by old size and speed vs. today's sizes and speeds.

1- Len Dawson- A poised, talented, and wise QB is the most important piece missing.

2- Otis Taylor- Great WR

3- Willie Lanier- Monster ILB

4- Derrick Thomas- Game changing Pass rusher

5- Jared Allen- Monster pass rusher

6- Tony Gonzalez- Yes we have ToMo, but he's not where TG was at his peak.

7- Curly Culp- Prototype NT.

8- Another former Chief. (Name him)

Wait for the poll, please.

[-King-]

Len Dawson isn't an original Chief.

[Chiefs Rool]

Len Dawson

[Tytanium]

TG would have led us to the promised land. Having Moeaki and Gonzales on the field at the same time would be obscene.

[DMAC]

Connor Barth

[Frankie]

Len Dawson isn't an original Chief.

Yes he is. He isn't an original Texan.

[Hammock Parties]

You have to go with QB.

[-King-]

Yes he is. He isn't an original Texan.

Wait...what?

[chasedude]

DT... we miss you

[pkane]

Dawson was drafted by the Steelers and played there until they cut him.

[pkane]

Actually I am wrong. He went from the Steelers, who traded him to the Browns. Spent 5 years in the league until he signed with the Texans.

[The Franchise]

Because of the fact that Len Dawson wasn't ours to begin with......I'd go with Derrick Thomas. Our defense would be sick with a true pass rushing threat like DT.

[Frankie]

Dawson was drafted by the Steelers and played there until they cut him.

He eventually became a Dallas Texan And was the ORIGINAL Chiefs starting QB.

[Frankie]

Actually I am wrong. He went from the Steelers, who traded him to the Browns. Spent 5 years in the league until he signed with the Texans.

Good choice. But for all intents and purposes Dawson was an original Chief. I put him in the poll with that in mind.

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

I'd like Jared Allen back.

[FAX]

I don't understand the question, so I'll say ... Spider Island.

FAX

[pkane]

Yes, I know he moved with the team when they came from Dallas. Just seems like an odd thing to put a poll up for. Anyone we drafted or Dawson since he came here from the Texans.

[Mr. Laz]

You have to go with QB.
probably ... but how good would our defense be with Derrick Thomas in the lineup?

How good would Derrick Thomas be under Crennel instead of gunther?

[Frankie]

Yes, I know he moved with the team when they came from Dallas. Just seems like an odd thing to put a poll up for. Anyone we drafted or Dawson since he came here from the Texans.

No it's not odd if you really think about it. Just don't dwell on it and vote.

Sheesh!

[-King-]

So WTF is the point of saying original chief if you don't really mean original chief?

[Chiefnj2]

probably ... but how good would our defense be with Derrick Thomas in the lineup?

How good would Derrick Thomas be under Crennel instead of gunther?

We had great defenses with DT. DT didn't lead the team to Super Bowls. You need a QB.

[Frankie]

So WTF is the point of saying original chief if you don't really mean original chief?

DAWSON WAS AN ORIGINAL CHIEF!!!!! HE JUST WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL DALLAS TEXAN!!!! :headbang:

[Mr. Laz]

i think frankie meant "original chief" to keep people from just throwing any name out there.

Joe Montana is THE answer but he was only a rent-a-chief

for all intensive purposes Dawson is "A" Chief ... he threw a total of less then like 50 passes before he became a texan/chief.

just sayin

[Chiefnj2]

Did DT ever have a big playoff game?

[pkane]

DAWSON WAS AN ORIGINAL CHIEF!!!!! HE JUST WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL DALLAS TEXAN!!!! :headbang:


LMAO

[Frankie]

We had great defenses with DT. DT didn't lead the team to Super Bowls. You need a QB.

That's what I think too. DT+Hali=DT+Neil Smith, practically. This D with DT would be like the D that DT was a part of.

[pkane]

you ever notice this always happens in frankies threads.

[-King-]

DAWSON WAS AN ORIGINAL CHIEF!!!!! HE JUST WAS NOT AN ORIGINAL DALLAS TEXAN!!!! :headbang:

How? He played with other teams for the first 5 years of his career. And then he played for the Texans. So how is he an original chief, but not an original texan?

[Mr. Laz]

We had great defenses with DT. DT didn't lead the team to Super Bowls. You need a QB.
well, i said "probably" :D

Dawson was a little before my time tbh

do you think his game would translate over to the current NFL?

DT would be a prototypical beast of a 3-4 rushbacker.

[jjchieffan]

I say Dawson. QB is the biggest weakness on the team. I excluded all the defense players because the defense is already playing at a high level. While I have no doubt that DT or Jared Allen would make the D even better, I would rather upgrade QB. Taylor is a no because Cassel couldn't get him the ball anyway. TG is a no because Moeaki is doing fine. The biggest obstacle to this team being a contender is definitely the QB.

[Frankie]

i think frankie meant "original chief" to keep people from just throwing any name out there.

BINGO! Give the man his prize.

[royr17]

Len Dawson was a great quarterback no doubt for the Chiefs, but he wasnt drafted by the Chiefs. He was drafted by the Steelers.

[Chiefnj2]

well, i said "probably"

Dawson was a little before my time tbh

do you think his game would translate over to the current NFL?

DT would be a prototypical beast of a 3-4 rushbacker.

My memory could be getting foggy in my old age, but I honestly don't recall big games from DT in the playoffs. I remember Keith Cash stepping up and blocking a punt against Pitt with very little time left and then catching a TD pass in the House of Pain, but I can't recall big plays from DT in the post season.

[-King-]

Len Dawson was a great quarterback no doubt for the Chiefs, but he wasnt drafted by the Chiefs. He was drafted by the Steelers.

Dude he is an original chief.


Just like how Randy Moss is an original Patriot and Thomas Jones is an original Chief.

[-King-]

well, i said "probably" :D

Dawson was a little before my time tbh

do you think his game would translate over to the current NFL?

DT would be a prototypical beast of a 3-4 rushbacker.


Wait...WTF do you mean "would"? He played in a 3-4.

[Mr. Laz]

My memory could be getting foggy in my old age, but I honestly don't recall big games from DT in the playoffs. I remember Keith Cash stepping up and blocking a punt against Pitt with very little time left and then catching a TD pass in the House of Pain, but I can't recall big plays from DT in the post season.
he would be our consistent speed pass rush ... a guy that other teams had to be afraid of not game planning against.

All due respect to Hali, but other teams don't have to be afraid of not chipping/doubling him every single play or their QB would get killed. Any team without a stud left tackle had to game plan their pass protection around stopping Derrick Thomas on every single play.

[royr17]

Dude he is an original chief.


Just like how Randy Moss is an original Patriot and Thomas Jones is an original Chief.

What I was trying to say is before Dawson was quarterback for the Chiefs, he was with Pittsburgh and then Cleaveland, and after that spent the rest of his career with the Chiefs.

[-King-]

What I was trying to say is before Dawson was quarterback for the Chiefs, he was with Pittsburgh and then Cleaveland, and after that spent the rest of his career with the Chiefs.

Yeah.... I was being sarcastic...

[grandllama]

The sad underlying theme of this thread is that everybody agrees a QB would be a difference maker...

And there is absolutely NO home grown QB that fits the qualifications of the thread. (Ignoring the whole Lenny argument)

[Chiefnj2]

The sad underlying theme of this thread is that everybody agrees a QB would be a difference maker...

And there is absolutely NO home grown QB that fits the qualifications of the thread. (Ignoring the whole Lenny argument)

Brody Croyle and Matt Elkins.

[Mr. Laz]

Wait...WTF do you mean "would"? He played in a 3-4.
Derrick Thomas is dead so i tend to use past tense ... "was" and "would be" when referring to him.

JFC ... are you just looking for somebody to fight with?

original chief ... would be

you gonna start picking fights about spelling or grammar now to satisfy your need to be a dick?!?1 :doh!:

[pkane]

I'd go with DT. Dawson took to many sacks and threw to many Ints.

[DMAC]

Dude he is an original chief.


Just like how Randy Moss is an original Patriot and Thomas Jones is an original Chief.

When the Chiefs first set foot on the field as Chiefs...Dawson was there.

He is an original Chief.

[FAX]

You know, it's kind of interesting, but I wonder if Lenny (in his prime) would be successful in today's NFL. The game is a little different.

FAX

[pkane]

Brody Croyle and Matt Elkins.

Like he said, no one fits the qualifications.

[FAX]

I think Lenny would probably dunk your head in a bucket of your own urine if you called him a Steeler or a Brown. He is Chief, through and through.

FAX

[grandllama]

Brody Croyle and Matt Elkins.

Well, throw in Todd Blackledge too then...

The point of the post being 'would make us a contender'

The only times we've been respectable / winning is with other teams cast offs

[Thig Lyfe]

It came down to Jared Allen and DT. I picked Allen because he's much more alive.

[Molitoth]

QB is the chiefs biggest concern right now, imo.

[okiedokieokoye]

I like it when you guys fight.

[grandllama]

It came down to Jared Allen and DT. I picked Allen because he's much more alive.

Unfortunately due to our lack of never drafting a franchise quarterback and the fact that DT is currently otherwise occupied, I agree.

[luv]

Does it have to be an original Chief, or just someone who's been a Chief before. I'd choose Montana.

From that list? I'd say DT.

[Chiefnj2]

Like he said, no one fits the qualifications.

Keep doubting Matt Elkins

[pkane]

Keep doubting Matt Elkins

Ok? What did he ever do?

[Chiefnj2]

Ok? What did he ever do?

Aside from walking into a flaming aids tree and live to tell about it? How about the antifreeze incident?

[cdcox]

You know, it's kind of interesting, but I wonder if Lenny (in his prime) would be successful in today's NFL. The game is a little different.

FAX

I'm going to say yes.

Dawson was considered to be a very accurate passer in his day. His completion percentage would be considered marginal by today's standards, but average passes were longer in those days. For example Otis Taylor's and Frank Pitts average yards per reception were consistently over 15. So you shorten up the passing game and his completion percentage is going to be right there with the leaders in today's game. He could make all the throws, so arm strength isn't an issue. Excellent play action passer.

Very cool under pressure (Lenny the Cool). Considered to be a leader of the team. Understood the game to the extent he called his own plays. A little on the small side, but with the conditioning he would get today he'd probably have the same size as Drew Brees.

I think he would be a franchise QB all over again.

[ClevelandBronco]

i think frankie meant "original chief" to keep people from just throwing any name out there.

Joe Montana is THE answer but he was only a rent-a-chief

for all intensive purposes Dawson is "A" Chief ... he threw a total of less then like 50 passes before he became a texan/chief.

just sayin

Oh. I get it now. Dan Marino then.

[JohnnyV13]

I'm going to say yes.

Dawson was considered to be a very accurate passer in his day. His completion percentage would be considered marginal by today's standards, but average passes were longer in those days. For example Otis Taylor's and Frank Pitts average yards per reception were consistently over 15. So you shorten up the passing game and his completion percentage is going to be right there with the leaders in today's game. He could make all the throws, so arm strength isn't an issue. Excellent play action passer.

Very cool under pressure (Lenny the Cool). Considered to be a leader of the team. Understood the game to the extent he called his own plays. A little on the small side, but with the conditioning he would get today he'd probably have the same size as Drew Brees.

I think he would be a franchise QB all over again.


This.

Dawson still holds a few NFL passing records. One of them is most consecutive seasons leading the league in completion percentage.

Dawson was the most accurate passer of his day, plus his strength was reading defenses.

He wouldn't take nearly as many sacks today, since he played in an era where corners could mug receivers until the ball was in the air. Dawson would have the ball out in a flash if he could depend on receivers to be in a spot. I think Len Dawson would be a BETTER QB today, because the rules would favor his strong points.

Drew Brees would be a very good comparison.

[Marcellus]

LOL at the people who picked Jared Allen who never made a big play at a crucial point in his career as a Chief.

He simply disappeared at critical points in games. I can't htink of a big play he has made as a Viking.

I can think of many huge plays DT and Neil Smith made. Allen shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation as those guys.

[cdcox]

This.

Dawson still holds a few NFL passing records. One of them is most consecutive seasons leading the league in completion percentage.

Dawson was the most accurate passer of his day, plus his strength was reading defenses.

He wouldn't take nearly as many sacks today, since he played in an era where corners could mug receivers until the ball was in the air. Dawson would have the ball out in a flash if he could depend on receivers to be in a spot. I think Len Dawson would be a BETTER QB today, because the rules would favor his strong points.

Drew Brees would be a very good comparison.

Yes, I was going to mention the fact that today's rules favoring the passing game would also greatly enhance his completion percentage. Those bump-and-run coverages were tough to get open against.

[Hammock Parties]

I didn't even realize Dawson was only 6 feet tall.

I might have to seriously consider DT.

[Frankie]

You know, it's kind of interesting, but I wonder if Lenny (in his prime) would be successful in today's NFL. The game is a little different.

FAX

Probably not. For one thing he was 6', 190 lbs. But for this thread I asked to disregard such physical comparisons. Assume we are adding a 6'2" 215 lb Len Dawson, for example.

[cdcox]

Probably not. For one thing he was 6', 190 lbs. But for this thread I asked to disregard such physical comparisons. Assume we are adding a 6'2" 215 lb Len Dawson, for example.

In that case I want to change my vote to the 6-6 280 lb Derrick Thomas who could run a 4.2 forty.

[Ralphy Boy]

I voted Otis Taylor, just because the man earned it.

[Ralphy Boy]

This.

Dawson still holds a few NFL passing records. One of them is most consecutive seasons leading the league in completion percentage.

Dawson was the most accurate passer of his day, plus his strength was reading defenses.

He wouldn't take nearly as many sacks today, since he played in an era where corners could mug receivers until the ball was in the air. Dawson would have the ball out in a flash if he could depend on receivers to be in a spot. I think Len Dawson would be a BETTER QB today, because the rules would favor his strong points.

Drew Brees would be a very good comparison.

Begs the question I've never heard asked...Does Lenny have a grandson?

[big nasty kcnut]

the baddest chiefs ever Buck Buchanan

[Ebolapox]

since we're making shit up, can we make otis taylor a harold carmichael with speed? (aka, 6'10, 260 lbs...4.1 speed)

and I'll say it again... frankie, you're a fucking moron.

[MatriculatingHank]

Bobby Bell. Hank Stram said of Bobby:"He could play all 22 positions on the field, and play them well."

[WhitiE]

wow! some people man....

[jjchieffan]

and I'll say it again... frankie, you're a ****ing moron.

REPOST. Hell even those who don't go to DC forum can figure that out just by reading his sig

[Gonzo]

LJ/that one poster who sucks.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Halfcan]

DT... we miss you

DT all the way!!

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I didn't see Benny Sapp, Donnell Bennett or Mike Livingston on the list ????

[JohnnyV13]

I didn't even realize Dawson was only 6 feet tall.

I might have to seriously consider DT.

If Dawson came up today, he'd be heavier than 190. He'd be more like 215 because he'd have weight trained. In his day, QB's didn't lift.

And, if Drew Brees can succeed in today's NFL, so could Dawson. If you think Dawson couldn't see over a modern line, you're forgetting the Chiefs had the largest O line of their era.

[ChiefsCountry]

Bobby Bell as a 3-4 outside backer would have been crazy to see. Dawson is more important piece but Bobby Bell was a very very close second.

[BossChief]

haha

A Tyler Thigpen that is accurate (and was drafted by us in the 7th instead of the Vikings, if that matters).

[milkman]

I'm going to say yes.

Dawson was considered to be a very accurate passer in his day. His completion percentage would be considered marginal by today's standards, but average passes were longer in those days. For example Otis Taylor's and Frank Pitts average yards per reception were consistently over 15. So you shorten up the passing game and his completion percentage is going to be right there with the leaders in today's game. He could make all the throws, so arm strength isn't an issue. Excellent play action passer.

Very cool under pressure (Lenny the Cool). Considered to be a leader of the team. Understood the game to the extent he called his own plays. A little on the small side, but with the conditioning he would get today he'd probably have the same size as Drew Brees.

I think he would be a franchise QB all over again.

Back in the day, except for a couple teams, (The Browns and Cowboys, and the Bengals when Paul Brown moved there) most of the QBs called their own plays.

But the rules do favor the offenses so much more.

QBs back in Lenny's day took a beating.

Not only was bump and run legal until the ball was in the air, but O-Linemen were not allowed to use their hands to block, while D-Lineman were able to do damn near anything imaginable to get after the QB.

Deacon Jones is famous for the head slap to knock O-Linemen off balance (though Tombstone Gracia was actually the guy who originally made use of it).

I would bet that sack numbers would be outrageous back in the day f they had actually kept track.

[Thig Lyfe]

LOL at the people who picked Jared Allen who never made a big play at a crucial point in his career as a Chief.

He simply disappeared at critical points in games. I can't htink of a big play he has made as a Viking.

I can think of many huge plays DT and Neil Smith made. Allen shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation as those guys.

Maybe if JA wasn't the sole playmaker on defense it would have been harder for teams to gameplan and neutralize him. DT and Neil Smith made many of their big plays because they had each other.

[Pioli Zombie]

I don't see how these people could help. They are all either in their 70's or are dead.

[KCrockaholic]

You know, it's kind of interesting, but I wonder if Lenny (in his prime) would be successful in today's NFL. The game is a little different.

FAX

He would out play Cassel if he was 20 years younger. I'd take him on our team today if he was younger.

[listopencil]

I would have picked Len Dawson if he was an original Chief.

[Frankie]

since we're making shit up, can we make otis taylor a harold carmichael with speed? (aka, 6'10, 260 lbs...4.1 speed)

and I'll say it again... frankie, you're a ****ing moron.

It's amazing how some folks cannot take repeated intellectual trampling like a man. When you've been constantly OWNED by someone, worm into his thread and use any excuse to mount a personal attack. The recourse of a loser.

[Frankie]

Bobby Bell. Hank Stram said of Bobby:"He could play all 22 positions on the field, and play them well."

I struggled with not putting BB in the poll. Then I figuered we have DT and Lanier in and that's enough LBs. In retrospect I bet Bell would have gathered some votes.

[Frankie]

I didn't see Benny Sapp, Donnell Bennett or Mike Livingston on the list ????

Hey, Livingston was probably better than many QBs who have started for the Chiefs.

[Frankie]

If Dawson came up today, he'd be heavier than 190. He'd be more like 215 because he'd have weight trained. In his day, QB's didn't lift.

And, if Drew Brees can succeed in today's NFL, so could Dawson. If you think Dawson couldn't see over a modern line, you're forgetting the Chiefs had the largest O line of their era.

Yeah but the largest, Jim Tyrer was listed as 285 Lbs. This is the era of the bigger players in every position.

[Frankie]

I would have picked Len Dawson if he was an original Chief.

Too late to the party, dude.

[listopencil]

Too late to the party, dude.

Why? What ever could you possibly mean?

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah but the largest, Jim Tyrer was listed as 285 Lbs. This is the era of the bigger players in every position.

He's talking about height.

I don't doubt that Dawson COULD be like Brees, but I just doubt if he would. There are not a lot of six footers in the NFL.

[milkman]

I struggled with not putting BB in the poll. Then I figuered we have DT and Lanier in and that's enough LBs. In retrospect I bet Bell would have gathered some votes.

I really love what DT brought to the Chiefs, but the fact is Bobby Bell was the best LB to have played for the Chiefs, and one of the best of all time.

It is speculated that he had 40 QB sacks in his career, even though he rarely blitzed from his LOLB position, was an outstanding in pass coverage, and a monster in run defense.

One of the most dominating LBs ever, he would have been Lawrence Taylor before Taylor if he had played ROLB in a true 34.

[Marcellus]

Maybe if JA wasn't the sole playmaker on defense it would have been harder for teams to gameplan and neutralize him. DT and Neil Smith made many of their big plays because they had each other.

That argument would hold water if DT quit making plays the years after Smith left.

DT was still a force when Smith was playing for the fucking Broncos.

[cdcox]

Hey, Livingston was probably better than many QBs who have started for the Chiefs.

:spock:

Fact: During their years in KC, Mike Livingston's career passer rating was lower than Steve Fuller's and only four points higher than Blacklege's. He was terrible. No one ever got more opportunities (75 starts) from a short term gig.

Fact: Livingston's passer rating in '69 was 67.4, which was just about his career average. He sucked. The defense was the star of that Super Bowl team.

Mike Livingston was a back up QB. That is all. He got the job done for 6 games in 1969 by not screwing up. I thank him for that. But I wish he had never seen the field after that.

75 starts. I want to bang my head with a car door just thinking about it.

[Dartgod]

Len Dawson wasn't an original Chief. He was drafted by the Steelers.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You have to go with QB.

This.

Enough "QB Critiques", Lenny; suit your ass up and let's roll!

[Psyko Tek]

all said and done
I voted for Lenny The Cool
cause we are weakest at qb

much rather have DT tearing up a QB with this secondary

[Wallcrawler]

Derrick Thomas.

The guy was an instrument of quarterback destruction. If we had DT in his prime right now, we could just play ball 2000 Baltimore Ravens style.

Cassel=Dilfer.

Just get 17 points, and we win.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

all said and done
I voted for Lenny The Cool
cause we are weakest at qb

much rather have DT tearing up a QB with this secondary

I'd definitely take him this week!

[JohnnyV13]

Yeah but the largest, Jim Tyrer was listed as 285 Lbs. This is the era of the bigger players in every position.

Tyrer played at over 300. Oddly enough, he used to live across the street from my parents.

[FAX]

I'm thinking Geronimo. He could yell his name real, real loud right before we blitz which would scare the living crap out of the enemy. Plus, he could help Sascrotch a great deal by chopping off all the opposing linemen's junk with his stone axe. Shaun could then just pick them up off the ground after the play and use them to make a very fearsome necklace or some cool, fuzzy earrings.

FAX

[JohnnyV13]

He's talking about height.

I don't doubt that Dawson COULD be like Brees, but I just doubt if he would. There are not a lot of six footers in the NFL.

I think you're not giving Dawson credit for just how good he was for his era. Lets put this in perspective:

Dawson played in 8 of the 10 years of the AFL's existence. In those 8 years Dawson:

1) Led the league in completion percentage 6 times (5 in a row)
2) Led the league in QB rating 6 times (5 times in a row).
3) Led the league in TD pass percentage 5 times.
4) Led the league in yards per attempt 3 times. Including ridiculous totals by today's standards of 9.4 in 1968 and 8.9 in '62 and '66.
5) Led the league in touchdown passes 4 times.
6) Won 3 championships (including a SB).

He put up passer ratings of 101.7, 98.6, 98.3, and 89.9, in an era when O linemen couldn't extend their arms and defenders could bang receivers until the ball was in the air.

And, the man called his own plays.

Oh, and the KC CHiefs line averaged 6-5 in height. Then you add rule changes that favor Dawson's strengths in accuracy and reading defenses. Sheesh, Dawson would light up today's NFL; provided he could take the beating.

[FAX]

Impressive resume, to be sure. Perhaps you would be so kind as to put those numbers in perspective ...

Who, for example, was the QB for the Chargers during that era? And the faiders?

FAX

[BWillie]

Elvis Grbac. That's right, I said it.

[JohnnyV13]

Impressive resume, to be sure. Perhaps you would be so kind as to put those numbers in perspective ...

Who, for example, was the QB for the Chargers during that era? And the faiders?

FAX

Lets take 1968 for example and I'll put up some competitor numbers:

Dawson had a completion percentage of 58.5. The next highest AFL passer was Bob Griese at 52.4. Everyone else had completion percentages below 50%.

Dawson had a passer rating of 98.6. The second highest was Daryl Lamonica (Raiders) at 80.9.

Dawson led with yards per attempt at 9.4. THe second highest qualifier was Joe Namath with 8.3.

John Hadl (Chargers) led the AFL in yards and touchdown passes, but had a 47.3 completion percentage, 27 TD/32 INT ratio and a QB rating of 64.5. He also went to the pro bowl with Dawson.

Of course Lamonica, Namath and Hadl really put the ball in the air a lot. Hadl and Lamonica averaged over 31 attempts per game, while Namath had 27. Dawson only attempted a little over 16 passes per game. The Chiefs led the league in rushing with 2200+ yards in 14 games, and ran twice as much as they passed.

This pass run ratio was unusual for the AFL Chiefs. They usually were closer to one/one, but they actually ran more than most AFL teams.

Going over to the NFL, completion percentages were higher, but Dawson still would have led over John Brodie's (49ers) 57.9. Dawson also would have led in yards per attempt over Earl Morralll (Colts) at 9.2. And, Dawson would have led in passer rating over Earl Morrall at 93.2. Morrall and Dawson were the only two passers over 9 yards per attempt. The second highest NFL qb was Don Meredith (Cowboys) at 8.1.

Look at Dawson's career, and he would rank as elite among the NFL passers as well.

[Mojo Jojo]

My memory could be getting foggy in my old age, but I honestly don't recall big games from DT in the playoffs. I remember Keith Cash stepping up and blocking a punt against Pitt with very little time left and then catching a TD pass in the House of Pain, but I can't recall big plays from DT in the post season.

Once again...DT pulled himself out of the Raiders playoff game, and he was benched in the AFC Championship game vs. Buffalo. You are correct DT didn't step up in the playoffs.

[Pioli Zombie]

Cunty Cunterson.

[Mojo Jojo]

Bobby Bell or Buck Buchanan. Both changed the way the game is played.

[Hammock Parties]

Once again...DT pulled himself out of the Raiders playoff game, and he was benched in the AFC Championship game vs. Buffalo. You are correct DT didn't step up in the playoffs.

Houston.

[Mojo Jojo]

Houston.
Yes DT had 2 sacks in that game, but Albert Lewis, Joe Phillips and Bennie Thompson also each had 2 sacks in that game. So if that is the best you can do...My point stands.

[beach tribe]

TG would have led us to the promised land. Having Moeaki and Gonzales on the field at the same time would be obscene.

??. Out of all those players, I'd have to say that this would probably benefit us the least. Moeaki has shown to be a good TE, he's not on the level of a TG, but I seriously don't think having two good TEs would take us to the "promised land"
Just one man's opinion though.
FTR, I would go with Dawson, or DT.

[beach tribe]

I think you're not giving Dawson credit for just how good he was for his era. Lets put this in perspective:

Dawson played in 8 of the 10 years of the AFL's existence. In those 8 years Dawson:

1) Led the league in completion percentage 6 times (5 in a row)
2) Led the league in QB rating 6 times (5 times in a row).
3) Led the league in TD pass percentage 5 times.
4) Led the league in yards per attempt 3 times. Including ridiculous totals by today's standards of 9.4 in 1968 and 8.9 in '62 and '66.
5) Led the league in touchdown passes 4 times.
6) Won 3 championships (including a SB).

He put up passer ratings of 101.7, 98.6, 98.3, and 89.9, in an era when O linemen couldn't extend their arms and defenders could bang receivers until the ball was in the air.

And, the man called his own plays.

Oh, and the KC CHiefs line averaged 6-5 in height. Then you add rule changes that favor Dawson's strengths in accuracy and reading defenses. Sheesh, Dawson would light up today's NFL; provided he could take the beating.

WOW. I knew Lenny was good, but he was pretty freakin elite back then.

[FAX]

Lets take 1968 for example and I'll put up some competitor numbers:

Dawson had a completion percentage of 58.5. The next highest AFL passer was Bob Griese at 52.4. Everyone else had completion percentages below 50%.

Dawson had a passer rating of 98.6. The second highest was Daryl Lamonica (Raiders) at 80.9.

Dawson led with yards per attempt at 9.4. THe second highest qualifier was Joe Namath with 8.3.

John Hadl (Chargers) led the AFL in yards and touchdown passes, but had a 47.3 completion percentage, 27 TD/32 INT ratio and a QB rating of 64.5. He also went to the pro bowl with Dawson.

Of course Lamonica, Namath and Hadl really put the ball in the air a lot. Hadl and Lamonica averaged over 31 attempts per game, while Namath had 27. Dawson only attempted a little over 16 passes per game. The Chiefs led the league in rushing with 2200+ yards in 14 games, and ran twice as much as they passed.

This pass run ratio was unusual for the AFL Chiefs. They usually were closer to one/one, but they actually ran more than most AFL teams.

Going over to the NFL, completion percentages were higher, but Dawson still would have led over John Brodie's (49ers) 57.9. Dawson also would have led in yards per attempt over Earl Morralll (Colts) at 9.2. And, Dawson would have led in passer rating over Earl Morrall at 93.2. Morrall and Dawson were the only two passers over 9 yards per attempt. The second highest NFL qb was Don Meredith (Cowboys) at 8.1.

Look at Dawson's career, and he would rank as elite among the NFL passers as well.

Good stuff, Mr. JohnnyV13. Excellent, in fact. Better, even, than Galilea Montijo's breastesses ... well, that's taking it a little far ... but good, man. Real good.

Hadl and Lamonica were both (I hate to say it) very good quarterbacks. I never realized that Lenny was that consistent, though.

Great post.

FAX

[Frankie]

Tyrer played at over 300. Oddly enough, he used to live across the street from my parents.

He did look big. But he was always listed around 285.

[Phobia]

How did Bobby Bell not make this poll? I'd take him at punter, LB, QB, Safety - anywhere you could insert the guy into the lineup.

[Frankie]

Hadl and Lamonica were both (I hate to say it) very good quarterbacks. I never realized that Lenny was that consistent, though.

FAX

Consistancy was perhaps Lenny's best quality.

[FAX]

Consistancy was perhaps Lenny's best quality.

That's what makes ChiefsPlanet so great, Mr. Frankie. It's not the dipshittery or the dumbassery or even the droptrousery ... it's the fact that you can learn a whole lot about the great game on here.

All this time I thought Lenny's best quality was his uncanny ability to drown a linebacker in his own urine.

FAX

[Frankie]

That's what makes ChiefsPlanet so great, Mr. Frankie. It's not the dipshittery or the dumbassery or even the droptrousery ... it's the fact that you can learn a whole lot about the great game on here.

All this time I thought Lenny's best quality was his uncanny ability to drown a linebacker in his own urine.

FAX
You are absolutely right Mr. FAX. Consistancy was Lenny's SECOND best quality. I stand corrected.

[ElGringo]

That's what makes ChiefsPlanet so great, Mr. Frankie. It's not the dipshittery or the dumbassery or even the droptrousery ... it's the fact that you can learn a whole lot about the great game on here.

All this time I thought Lenny's best quality was his uncanny ability to drown a linebacker in his own urine.

FAX

Gotta second this quote, this is why I lurk here all the time, learn quite a bit about my beloved Chiefs.

[boogblaster]

Lenny D ...