So I'm going back to school next year

[J Diddy]

Question is the opinion of you esteemed folks about trade schools.

Is it a waste of time?
Should I enroll in a full university?


Basically I'm looking at this from a job prospect view.

[RustShack]

Just get a job somewhere and suck the bosses dick.

[RustShack]

Or sleep with your professor.

[Bugeater]

I just went back at the ripe old age of 42. I went the trade school route, I can't put my life on hold for 4 years while I attend a major university. It had better not be a waste of time.

[Pablo]

If you decide to go the university route, get an engineering or biology degree. Most anything else isn't really worth the time and money wasted.

[RustShack]

Create a webpage like facebook and you will be rich. Let me in on it too.

[J Diddy]

Just get a job somewhere and suck the bosses dick.


Lol, I got a job but hey if it works for you ride the lightning.

[Brock]

What do you want to do?

[J Diddy]

I just went back at the ripe old age of 42. I went the trade school route, I can't put my life on hold for 4 years while I attend a major university. It had better not be a waste of time.



finally a smart answer.

how long you been in? Do you feel that job placement will be there?

[RustShack]

Lol, I got a job but hey if it works for you ride the lightning.

Don't ride it, that would be ghey.

[Chiefs Rool]

no! stick with trade schools. I wish I did that, I got a degree from k-state and the best job I could find here is at a factory. Of course my degree was in business 8 years ago.

I wish I woulda just went to a trade school. Learning a trade >> learning some BS generalized degree.

I met my wife in college, that's the only good thing to come out of it, lol.

[J Diddy]

What do you want to do?

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.

[cdcox]

Unless there is something you really want to do that needs a college degree, I'd do one of these for a few years, save my money and then start my own business in the same field:

Electrician
HVAC
Plumber

[J Diddy]

Don't ride it, that would be ghey.

you're silly

So does your payscale base on total cc of sperm swallowed?

[Brock]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.

Are you experienced?

[Bugeater]

finally a smart answer.

how long you been in? Do you feel that job placement will be there?
I just started last month. I'm not terribly worried about finding a job since I already have a customer network in place from my current business, I can simply add to the services I currently offer. But I wouldn't turn down the right opportunity if it came along.

[Saulbadguy]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.
Medical field.

[BigRedChief]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.Forget programming. They can pay someone in India $5K for the same work that an American would charge $50K. It's too big a hill to climb.

Trade school is the way to go. But, if you go the I.T. route remember it will be hard to get your foot in the door. There has been a lot of advise and input on how to get started in the Official I.T. thread.

Information Security and Assurance are jobs that will never be off shored in I.T. here in the USA. But, again hard to get your foot in the door.

[J Diddy]

Are you experienced?

no sir, hobby

going to school to get a degree to turn a hobby into a career

[Pablo]

Medical field.And the winner is...

[Saulbadguy]

Forget programming. They can pay someone in India $5K for the same work that an American would charge $50K. It's too big a hill to climb.

Trade school is the way to go. But, if you go the I.T. route remember it will be hard to get your foot in the door. There has been a lot of advise and input on how to get started in the Official I.T. thread.

Information Security and Assurance are jobs that will never be off shored in I.T. here in the USA. But, again hard to get your foot in the door.

This.

[jAZ]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.
It depends.

If by "trade school" you mean something like ITT Tech or similar, I'd say be careful. My sense is that you will pay an ass-load of money (in the form of tuition and student loans) and walk away with minimally improved employability.

If you leave a school like that, people are still going to want to see a proven work history demonstrating your skills. And you just don't get that in a trade school for IT. You can develop that on your own outside of school, and study the materials through any number of free, online outlets and end up in the same place (tough time finding a job, but having learned some skills) while having saved a TON of money.

If you think you can get through the program, I'd strongly suggest you do Computer Science or similar at a regular university where they have a strong job placement program and a good internship program. Maybe even an opportunity for student employment in an IT role somewhere on campus.

The more paid work experience you can get on your resume before you go for the first real job, the better off you are. The less money you spend on the entire thing, the better off you are.

I've seen too many people lured into a trade school with the promise of a great IT job only the come out a lot more in debt and still having no job opportunities.

Avoid that.

[Pablo]

Go to a major university. Get a major in Sociology with a minor in Psychology.

I hear that will put you on the fast track to immediate success.

[Chiefs Rool]

Go to a major university. Get a major in Sociology with a minor in Psychology.

I hear that will put you on the fast track to immediate success.

lol, if success is making tips from waiting tables

[BigRedChief]

It depends.

If by "trade school" you mean something like ITT Tech or similar, I'd say be careful. My sense is that you will pay an ass-load of money (in the form of tuition and student loans) and walk away with minimally improved employability.

If you leave a school like that, people are still going to want to see a proven work history demonstrating your skills. And you just don't get that in a trade school for IT. You can develop that on your own outside of school, and study the materials through any number of free, online outlets and end up in the same place (tough time finding a job, but having learned some skills) while having saved a TON of money.

If you think you can get through the program, I'd strongly suggest you do Computer Science or similar at a regular university where they have a strong job placement program and a good internship program. Maybe even an opportunity for student employment in an IT role somewhere on campus.

The more paid work experience you can get on your resume before you go for the first real job, the better off you are. The less money you spend on the entire thing, the better off you are.

I've seen too many people lured into a trade school with the promise of a great IT job only the come out a lot more in debt and still having no job opportunities.

Avoid that.This. Concur with this approach.

You could go to some community college. Take some basic I.T. courses to get you started. Study on your own. Get certifications on your own. The key to doing it this way is going to be getting some experience in the field. Volunteer at some charity. Work for minimum wage, part time whatever that will get you real world experience on your resume. Thats basically what I did when I switched careers.

[BryanBusby]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.

Telling you right now, for the love of god......do something else.

If you are a complete masochist and decide to do so anyways, do not go to ITT or Devry. They will max out your loans if you opt for that route, it's damn hard to transfer your credits if you want to go to a real college and if you decide you want to advance onto a Masters degree.....lol good luck.

[pr_capone]

I just went back to school. Attending Ft. Hays State but doing their online courses. Just need a BA in order to open the door to promotion possibilities for work.

My job is paying for school so it all works out nicely.

[J Diddy]

This. Concur with this approach.

You could go to some community college. Take some basic I.T. courses to get you started. Study on your own. Get certifications on your own. The key to doing it this way is going to be getting some experience in the field. Volunteer at some charity. Work for minimum wage, part time whatever that will get you real world experience on your resume. Thats basically what I did when I switched careers.


Well obviously this is gonna be a switch in careers for me, got no problem working. Just have to find something more family friendly.

[BigRedChief]

Well obviously this is gonna be a switch in careers for me, got no problem working. Just have to find something more family friendly.Forget the medical field then. You have to work every other weekend.

[J Diddy]

I appreciate the input. I've got a meeting with an admissions counselor tomorrow. Either way I'm gonna make something happen.

[J Diddy]

Forget the medical field then. You have to work every other weekend.

lol, every night and every weekend is what im dealing with now.

[BigRedChief]

lol, every night and every weekend is what im dealing with now.Screw that. Thats all of your family time.

[BryanBusby]

Put in the effort and sacrifice some family time now to secure your familys financial future down the road. Get into something like plumbing or welding during the nights and get an apprenticeship over the weekend. Even if you decide to go the IT route, you're gonna make sacrifices. Programming? You won't see home during crunch time. Admining? Have fun being on call when some under qualified dumbass decides to change everything, which usually results in mega fail.

[Bearcat]

no! stick with trade schools. I wish I did that, I got a degree from k-state and the best job I could find here is at a factory. Of course my degree was in business 8 years ago.

I wish I woulda just went to a trade school. Learning a trade >> learning some BS generalized degree.

I met my wife in college, that's the only good thing to come out of it, lol.

Well, there is a 3rd option... get a 4 year degree in something useful. :shrug:


As far as IT, I agree with jAZ and BRC. I personally think a 4 year degree in MIS or computer science is worth it, and you generally get what you pay for, but if you know exactly what you want to do, a few CC classes and certifications might do the trick & get your foot in the door somewhere.... and if you get started with a decent company, they might just pay you to get a 4 year degree.

[Chiefs Rool]

lol, I actually lied about having a degree. Well, I just took it off my resume because I was thinking that they were thinking "what's a guy with a degree applying for this job?" lol, I got a full time gig so and I can support my family, but when I had that degree on my resume, I had no luck. When I took it off, I got a job, lol. Tough times.

[dirk digler]

either computer programming or networking


These are things that I enjoy, trying to find a job that I like.

You won't find a job in programming.

As Saul suggested you need to be in the medical field. My advice go be a Nurse.

[BryanBusby]

When I took it off, I got a job, lol. Tough times.

You'd be surprised how many people are doing exactly that now a days.

[DRU]

What kind of programming are you interested in? Are you experienced at all? I'm looking for a programmer and I'm willing to train you on the clock if you won't waste my time. I've already wasted some money on a guy who came in and learned from me and then went to Cerner.

[DRU]

Put in the effort and sacrifice some family time now to secure your familys financial future down the road. Get into something like plumbing or welding during the nights and get an apprenticeship over the weekend. Even if you decide to go the IT route, you're gonna make sacrifices. Programming? You won't see home during crunch time. Admining? Have fun being on call when some under qualified dumbass decides to change everything, which usually results in mega fail.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I've got programming work coming out of my ears. I'm in desperate need of some decent programmers right now. I'd take 2 tomorrow.

[Bearcat]

What kind of programming are you interested in? Are you experienced at all? I'm looking for a programmer and I'm willing to train you on the clock if you won't waste my time. I've already wasted some money on a guy who came in and learned from me and then went to Cerner.

...

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I've got programming work coming out of my ears. I'm in desperate need of some decent programmers right now. I'd take 2 tomorrow.

If you had only posted this 8 months ago... I'm still slightly intrigued though, heh.

[DRU]

If you had only posted this 8 months ago... I'm still slightly intrigued though, heh.

Actually, I did. It was some other random thread about jobs or computers, I don't remember.

I'm looking for somebody proficient with PHP/MySQL, and XML web services in general. FileMaker would be a big plus, too. We do lots of custom integration with eBay, PayPal, pretty much all the shipping carriers, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, etc. We also work a lot with WordPress and other open-source solutions.

I've got 3 full-time programmers right now and I could use at least 2 more (that are worth a damn.)

I'm also looking for an account/project manager.

And just so I don't get blamed for hijacking the thread, I'd recommend you either go the trade school route or do what I did when I was working full-time...tell them you know more than you do and figure it out when you get there. ;)

[jAZ]

Put in the effort and sacrifice some family time now to secure your familys financial future down the road. Get into something like plumbing or welding during the nights and get an apprenticeship over the weekend. Even if you decide to go the IT route, you're gonna make sacrifices. Programming? You won't see home during crunch time. Admining? Have fun being on call when some under qualified dumbass decides to change everything, which usually results in mega fail.

Am I the only one who thinks that plumbing is a much better trade than entry level IT? I wouldn't have said that back in 1995, but given the world we live in today and the fact that a plumber will not be outsourced. If you want a career based a couple years of school and some time spent learning on the job, I'd go plumbiing, electrical or HVAC.

Now if you really want to take it to another level, and want 4 years or 6 years of schooling and can and want to compete in the corporate world, then CS, MIS or some other IT field is pretty good.

I'm going back now to get my PhD in MIS. It's interesting looking back, I have to say.

[jAZ]

Well, there is a 3rd option... get a 4 year degree in something useful. :shrug:


As far as IT, I agree with jAZ and BRC. I personally think a 4 year degree in MIS or computer science is worth it, and you generally get what you pay for, but if you know exactly what you want to do, a few CC classes and certifications might do the trick & get your foot in the door somewhere.... and if you get started with a decent company, they might just pay you to get a 4 year degree.

IT is one field that without question you can become a rock star without going to college or even a JC/trade school. People do it all the time. But they do it because they are truely rock-stars in coding. They are in high demand. Usually they are smart but somewhat socially dysfunctional and often commit all of their anti-social time to exploring what a computer can do. That's pretty unique to IT.

[BryanBusby]

Am I the only one who thinks that plumbing is a much better trade than entry level IT? I wouldn't have said that back in 1995, but given the world we live in today and the fact that a plumber will not be outsourced. If you want a career based a couple years of school and some time spent learning on the job, I'd go plumbiing, electrical or HVAC.

Now if you really want to take it to another level, and want 4 years or 6 years of schooling and can and want to compete in the corporate world, then CS, MIS or some other IT field is pretty good.

I'm going back now to get my PhD in MIS. It's interesting looking back, I have to say.
You are not the only one. The demand is going to get huge, the less sedentary style of work is better for your health and the pay is good. I'm making the jump from IT to a trade skill.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I've got programming work coming out of my ears. I'm in desperate need of some decent programmers right now. I'd take 2 tomorrow.

Is there any specific reason? If you work for a bigger company that lets HR handle hiring, I wouldn't be surprised.

[jAZ]

What kind of programming are you interested in? Are you experienced at all? I'm looking for a programmer and I'm willing to train you on the clock if you won't waste my time. I've already wasted some money on a guy who came in and learned from me and then went to Cerner.

Take this (non-committal) offer and run with it. That's hard to do.

I spent a year teachking myself VB, Access and SQL. Then I talked my way into a position designing a database conversion (that I was pretty under-qualified for)... and then worked my ass off to keep from being embarrassed. It was a major tipping point in my career.

It gave me the confidence and skills to go back to finish my BS in Software Engineering, and then an MBA and now a PhD. You might not want that, but if someone is willing to pay you to learn, take the job.

[Bearcat]

Actually, I did. It was some other random thread about jobs or computers, I don't remember.

I'm looking for somebody proficient with PHP/MySQL, and XML web services in general. FileMaker would be a big plus, too. We do lots of custom integration with eBay, PayPal, pretty much all the shipping carriers, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, etc. We also work a lot with WordPress and other open-source solutions.

I've got 3 full-time programmers right now and I could use at least 2 more (that are worth a damn.)

I'm also looking for an account/project manager.

And just so I don't get blamed for hijacking the thread, I'd recommend you either go the trade school route or do what I did when I was working full-time...tell them you know more than you do and figure it out when you get there. ;)

I could probably learn it, but I'm not really looking for a job right now, just kinda bored & trying to actually stick with one job for a while.... I'll keep it in mind though if you're serious about the training part. :)

[DRU]

IT is one field that without question you can become a rock star without going to college or even a JC/trade school. People do it all the time. But they do it because they are truely rock-stars in coding. They are in high demand. Usually they are smart but somewhat socially dysfunctional and often commit all of their anti-social time to exploring what a computer can do. That's pretty unique to IT.

That's a pretty narrow-minded (and stereotypical) point-of-view. You don't have to dedicate your life to coding and know every language and every aspect of it to be successful. You just need to specialize in something.

For example, I know people making a good living doing nothing but basic shipping integration. If you're selling a product these days, you need a web site. When you have a site you need to handle shipping solutions (ie. shipping quotes, printing labels, automated tracking solutions, etc.) There are LOADS of people out there with current web sites (or launching new sites) that need shipping integration. You just have to know how to find them, or better yet, get them to find you.

That's just one example of a specialty. There are LOTS of things you could "specialize" in.

[dirk digler]

Am I the only one who thinks that plumbing is a much better trade than entry level IT? I wouldn't have said that back in 1995, but given the world we live in today and the fact that a plumber will not be outsourced. If you want a career based a couple years of school and some time spent learning on the job, I'd go plumbiing, electrical or HVAC.

Now if you really want to take it to another level, and want 4 years or 6 years of schooling and can and want to compete in the corporate world, then CS, MIS or some other IT field is pretty good.

I'm going back now to get my PhD in MIS. It's interesting looking back, I have to say.

I work in IT and even though I love this career choice for people getting into the field is going to be extremely tough. There is a alot more supply than demand unless you have a specific skill and alot of experience.

[Bearcat]

IT is one field that without question you can become a rock star without going to college or even a JC/trade school. People do it all the time. But they do it because they are truely rock-stars in coding. They are in high demand. Usually they are smart but somewhat socially dysfunctional and often commit all of their anti-social time to exploring what a computer can do. That's pretty unique to IT.

I agree, and that's what I meant by knowing exactly what you want to do... if you have a passion for coding or networking or security, etc; all you need is motivation to teach yourself and maybe a connection to a job. However, a 4 year degree with good opportunities for internships and job placement can be very beneficial for those who want to get into the field, but aren't exactly sure if they want to code for a living or whatever.

[BigRedChief]

I agree, and that's what I meant by knowing exactly what you want to do... if you have a passion for coding or networking or security, etc; all you need is motivation to teach yourself and maybe a connection to a job. However, a 4 year degree with good opportunities for internships and job placement can be very beneficial for those who want to get into the field, but aren't exactly sure if they want to code for a living or whatever.I don't even have an associates degree. Every job I've had for the last 6 years has had as a requirement a bachelors degree. I've tripled my salary during that time. Unless you want to get into management, forget the degree, at least in I.T. and the medical field.

[BryanBusby]

I don't even have an associates degree. Every job I've had for the last 6 years has had as a requirement a bachelors degree. I've tripled my salary during that time. Unless you want to get into management, forget the degree, at least in I.T. and the medical field.
If you already have the knowledge and can overwhelm them with it and show some good prior experience, sure. The main key is to network like a motherfucker.

[jAZ]

That's a pretty narrow-minded (and stereotypical) point-of-view. You don't have to dedicate your life to coding and know every language and every aspect of it to be successful. You just need to specialize in something.

For example, I know people making a good living doing nothing but basic shipping integration. If you're selling a product these days, you need a web site. When you have a site you need to handle shipping solutions (ie. shipping quotes, printing labels, automated tracking solutions, etc.) There are LOADS of people out there with current web sites (or launching new sites) that need shipping integration. You just have to know how to find them, or better yet, get them to find you.

That's just one example of a specialty. There are LOTS of things you could "specialize" in.
It's not narrow minded. Just speaking narrowly of coding rock-stars. I defer to you on your examples. I have no experience in that area. But whatever area you choose in IT, if you are going to go the no-formal training, no formal experience, no college degree route, you are going to have to be incredibly committed and pretty singleminded. It's a lot of work and its hard getting someone to give you an opportunity when you are unproven. You are unique in this field. Most businesses want a degree that proves you can achieve a certain level, or a work history that shows the same.

[jAZ]

If you already have the knowledge and can overwhelm them with it and show some good prior experience, sure. The main key is to network like a motherfucker.

The main thing is prove that you are invaluable to your organization.

[BryanBusby]

Got to get your foot in the door first.

[Bearcat]

I don't even have an associates degree. Every job I've had for the last 6 years has had as a requirement a bachelors degree. I've tripled my salary during that time. Unless you want to get into management, forget the degree, at least in I.T. and the medical field.

Well, I have two degrees (one of which was employer paid), doubled my salary within 3 years, and got a great rate on student loan consolidation. :p

Eh, if I had to do it all again, I'd end up back in school... a different one, but still...

[BigRedChief]

Well, I have two degrees (one of which was employer paid), doubled my salary within 3 years, and got a great rate on student loan consolidation. :p

Eh, if I had to do it all again, I'd end up back in school... a different one, but still...But, I have two years of my life free instead of being stuck in school like you were... :moon:

[Bearcat]

But, I have two years of my life free instead of being stuck in school like you were... :moon:

Video games, beer, pizza, football on Saturdays, and no need for a full time job.... I wish I was stuck there forever. :(

[DRU]

Video games, beer, pizza, football on Saturdays, and no need for a full time job.... I wish I was stuck there forever. :(

Where are the women at in that mix..??

[Ecto-I]

J Diddy,

I just started the MBA program at UCSD, and so far it's been incredible...ESPECIALLY for people who are looking for jobs. They bend over backward setting students up with connections, networking, and interviews with employers in any industry you want. It's absolutely incredible and I don't see any way a student graduating from the Rady School of Management can NOT have a well-paying job after graduation.

So, at this point, I think a full-time MBA program at a highly reputable school is a great way to go. It costs a ton of money, but the reward should be worth it. Now, my advice would probably hold more water if I was a recent graduate rather than a 1st year grad student, but from everything Ive seen thus far, its certainly not a waste of time, but rather a viable career path.

[Bearcat]

Where are the women at in that mix..??

There were these three hoooot chicks, but they're probably currently buried in my parents' basement with all the other vhs tapes.

[Pablo]

Video games, beer, pizza, football on Saturdays, and no need for a full time job.... I wish I was stuck there forever. :(This. School wasn't much work. I worked really hard at being really dumb...that's about it.

[J Diddy]

So here I am at 36, I have a meeting with my advisor on thursday for the official enrollment. I opted to go to juco then transfer to Missouri Southern to obtain a bachelors in computer science. Screw the naysayers it's what I want to do as well as a projected 34 percent job growth in the next 8 years. \

I was gtg on the technical school route but it seemed like a one shot deal. Either I get a specific job or be really broke.

I know I'm using this as my blog right now and I apologize, but the people who I'm talking to, and they know who they are won't mind. If you do fuck off.

As well as that I'm resigning as manager of my little corner of the pizza industry the 28th. Don't know what'll do yet, but I suspect i can find something.

So FML.

[Saulbadguy]

Dumbass.

[Fritz88]

So here I am at 36, I have a meeting with my advisor on thursday for the official enrollment. I opted to go to juco then transfer to Missouri Southern to obtain a bachelors in computer science. Screw the naysayers it's what I want to do as well as a projected 34 percent job growth in the next 8 years. \

I was gtg on the technical school route but it seemed like a one shot deal. Either I get a specific job or be really broke.

I know I'm using this as my blog right now and I apologize, but the people who I'm talking to, and they know who they are won't mind. If you do **** off.

As well as that I'm resigning as manager of my little corner of the pizza industry the 28th. Don't know what'll do yet, but I suspect i can find something.

So FML.

Good luck. Get the most out of it. There are loads and loads of ways to get more practice and experience from online resources. Free online web conferences and seminars and light courses. These things can give you and edge when you apply to a job.