Isaac Bruce

[Rams Fan]

I'm curious what you guys think about Isaac Bruce. How good of a WR do you think he was? Is he a top 10 WR? I'm asking this because his number's being retired on Sunday.

[MMXcalibur]

I'm curious what you guys think about Isaac Bruce.

I think he's not a Chief.

[Jenson71]

He was pretty good for a while. I don't think Top 10 of all-time though.

[mlyonsd]

He owes a lot to Otis Taylor. Taylor defined the role of the new generation of WR's.

Top 10? Dunno.

[DaKCMan AP]

Statistically he's top-10 all-time in receptions, yards, and TDs.

[Bane]

IMO he was a very good one,but I don't know about top 10.

[Gonzo]

Top 20 imo.
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[Chiefs Rool]

top 20, he was definately a great WR

[siberian khatru]

No, I do not think the Chiefs should sign him.

[NaptownChief]

Top 20 for certain but I would struggle to come up with 10 that I am certain that was better. What will got lost on a lot of people is that he put up big numbers in the Rams system in which Martz had everyone putting up big numbers via the passing game. However Bruce put up the 2nd best WR season ever before the Martz era and ironically Jerry Rice put up the best season ever during the same year. So when Bruce did that, there had never been a season like that prior.

I'm a big fan of the Reverand....just wish he wouldn't have gone out on a negative note with the 9ers.

[Brock]

top 10.

[Rain Man]

I'm not sure I'd put him Top 10. In fact, I wouldn't. But top 25? Yeah. I always thought he was better than Torry Holt, meaning no offense to Holt.

[Deberg_1990]

Not sure about top 10. Top 20 for sure. In his prime he was really, really good. He was dominating even before Vermeil/Martz got there. If i remember right, he actually played one season in LA?

Ill never forget that catch he made in the SB against the Titans.

[Rams Fan]

I'm a big fan of the Reverand....just wish he wouldn't have gone out on a negative note with the 9ers.


Even though he ended his career with the 49ers, he ended it in style. The 49ers played their last game of the year in St. Louis last season and Bruce started the game for the 49ers. He was shown on the JumboTron, stayed in for one play and went to the sidelines afterwords with the fans chanting "BRUUUUUUUUUCE".

[Thig Lyfe]

Bring him in for a look.

[Shogun]

Only 37, Bring him in for a look

[Shogun]

Bring him in for a look.

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[NaptownChief]

For everyone saying "not sure he is top 10", that is easy to do....what isn't easy to do is come up with 10 you would put ahead of him. I'm not sure I can.

At first thought:

Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
Tim Brown
Terrell Owens
James Lofton
Don Maynard


Those 6 for certain in my mind but after that Bruce can be argued with about anyone.

[Rain Man]

For everyone saying "not sure he is top 10", that is easy to do....what isn't easy to do is come up with 10 you would put ahead of him. I'm not sure I can.

At first thought:

Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
Tim Brown
Terrell Owens
James Lofton
Don Maynard


Those 6 for certain in my mind but after that Bruce can be argued with about anyone.

Good point. I pondered that, but was too lazy. Off the top of my head, I'd go with...

Don Hutson
Tom Fears
Lance Alworth
Paul Warfield
Don Maynard
Randy Moss
Jerry Rice
Sterling Sharpe (maybe)
Otis Taylor (stats be damned - the guy was dominant in his prime)
Cris Carter
James Lofton


Some others are close, but maybe a shade below. Guys like Stanley Morgan, Isaac Curtis, John Stalworth, Cliff Branch, Marvin Harrison, etc.

I'm probably missing a few guys, and a few are certainly listed on reputation only (the top two on my list and kind of the next three after that). So Bruce may be top 15, a little higher than my initial reaction.

[Garcia Bronco]

My top ten. Rice is certainly number 1

Rice
Brown
Monk
Harrison
Irvin
Swann
Alworth
Largent
Owens
Smith

Bruce is top 15 without question and most likely top ten. WR is hard. There are so many.

[jlscorpio]

he has the shitty luck of playing in the same era as Rice, Carter, Moss, and T.O.

[Deberg_1990]

he has the shitty luck of playing in the same era as Rice, Carter, Moss, and T.O.

This is why its going to get harder and harder to put these guys in the Hall. Its why Carter isnt in. Their numbers are inflated.

But its kind of a joke when you see a guy like Lynn Swann compared to the numbers alot of these guys put up.

[NaptownChief]

WR is hard. There are so many.


Yeah, definitely hard because of era....Maynard for me is a certain cause when you look at all time stats he is the only one in the top 20 statistically despite playing in the 50' and 60's era of grinding it out on the ground. With the switch to the all out pass strategy of the modern era guys like Marvin Harrison get the huge benefit of the era plus the best QB of all time throwing to him. I'm a big Colts fan but due to that I couldn't put him up there. With a lousy QB like Jim Harbaugh throwing to him he was just a 800 yard per season type of receiver. A lot of guys could fall into that category.

[Rain Man]

My top ten. Rice is certainly number 1

Rice
Brown
Monk
Harrison
Irvin
Swann
Alworth
Largent
Owens
Smith

Bruce is top 15 without question and most likely top ten. WR is hard. There are so many.


Mine aren't in any order, but I find it intriguing that 8 of your top 10 weren't in my top group. Shows why they need a lot of voters, I guess.

[Thig Lyfe]

Okay but where does Bobby Sippio rank?

[Rain Man]

This is why its going to get harder and harder to put these guys in the Hall. Its why Carter isnt in. Their numbers are inflated.

But its kind of a joke when you see a guy like Lynn Swann compared to the numbers alot of these guys put up.


I'd like to do an analysis of this at some point, because it seems like both running and receiving stats (and passing, I guess) are inflated. Given that the game is still 60 minutes long, it's odd that both would go up. I guess some of the main factors would be:

1. Longer seasons.
2. Rules tilted strongly toward offense.
3. Longer careers due to better medicine and the money (and maybe better protection and more teams for those on the downside of their career)

Anything else? I wonder what the biggest factor is. I'd bet it's #3 on average, but haven't done any research on it.

[NaptownChief]

Okay but where does Bobby Sippio rank?


He is up there...Right next to Kevin Lockett and Lake Dawson.

[NaptownChief]

1. Longer seasons.
.


Biggest factor belongs here...

[mcaj22]

and just think the league wants to add 2 more games ontop of the "longer season" factor.

and if that happens people are going to smash even guys like Issac Bruce and Chris Carters numbers just by being an average player benefiting from longer statistical seasons

[Deberg_1990]

I'd like to do an analysis of this at some point, because it seems like both running and receiving stats (and passing, I guess) are inflated. Given that the game is still 60 minutes long, it's odd that both would go up. I guess some of the main factors would be:

1. Longer seasons.
2. Rules tilted strongly toward offense.
3. Longer careers due to better medicine and the money (and maybe better protection and more teams for those on the downside of their career)

Anything else? I wonder what the biggest factor is. I'd bet it's #3 on average, but haven't done any research on it.

Alot of it too is, teams pass more which equals more looks and oppurtunities than guys from the 60's and 70's ever got.

[Rain Man]

As a crude thinking process, let's say that 1,000 catches is now kind of the entry point for Hall of Fame discussions. 40 years ago what was it? Maybe 400? 500? Let's call it a 100 percent increase in the threshold to be conservative.

So the longer season gives you 33 percent more games compared to 12-game seasons and 17 percent more in 14 game seasons. Maybe 25 percent on average.

Now...how many passes per game are attempted now versus 40 years ago. Again, I'm not looking it up at all, but maybe QBs then were throwing 300 passes a year compared to 500 now, so maybe 25 to 30 per game them (that seems high), compared to 30 to 35 now. So maybe rule changes are another 20 percent of the difference. (I bet this is conservative.)

So if longer careers are the only other difference, they'd be 55 percent. Is the average hall of famer playing 55 percent longer now? Maybe a Hall of Famer then was playing 10 years and now they're playing 15? Maybe.

Again, I'm just typing, so someone else can feel free to correct me with actual statistics if my initial guesses are wrong.

[KCinNY]

My top ten. Rice is certainly number 1

Rice
Brown
Monk
Harrison
Irvin
Swann
Alworth
Largent
Owens
Smith

Bruce is top 15 without question and most likely top ten. WR is hard. There are so many.

No Moss in there? Really?

I know he's a jerk but there's no way Art Monk and Steve Largent are better WRs.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

He's a motherfucker for what he said about Derrick Thomas.

[Red Dawg]

top 20, he was definately a great WR

20? Uh.........no. Top 30 I could live with.

[Demonpenz]

Hines Ward is up there.

[Rain Man]

He's a mother****er for what he said about Derrick Thomas.

What'd he say about Derrick Thomas?

[Thig Lyfe]

What'd he say about Derrick Thomas?

Something about how if he had said Jesus' name during the car crash he would have been fine. Isaac Bruce is a religious nutjob.

[Rams Fan]

20? Uh.........no. Top 30 I could live with.

You're joking, right? He's Top 10 stat wise and is at least Top 20 all time.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What'd he say about Derrick Thomas?

Two Men, Two Flips of Fate
<table align="RIGHT" bgcolor="#cccc99" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td nowrap="nowrap">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/misc/bullet_sm.gifClick here for more on this story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2000/02/01/life_of_reilly/#more)</td></tr></tbody></table> Posted: Wednesday February 02, 2000 08:37 AM
<table align="right" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="10"> </td> <td width="160"> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/inside_game/reilly_lifeofreilly_head_lg.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/archives/rick_reilly/index.html) <nobr></nobr></td> </tr></tbody></table> Two NFL stars. Two days. Two seat belts unbuckled. Two horrible accidents.
The police who arrive at the first wreck say they've rarely seen a car so crushed after flipping. They're sure the occupants are goners. But the first star, St. Louis Rams Pro Bowl wide receiver Isaac Bruce, crawls out of it, hardly needing a Band-Aid. His girlfriend is also fine.
The police who arrive at the second wreck are surprised the car isn't more damaged after flipping. But the second star, Kansas City Chiefs Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Thomas, is carried away by ambulance, no feeling in his legs. His best friend is dead.

SAME TWO men, Sunday's Super Bowl, each with the sound of the crowd ringing in his ears, each in a room with colorful banners on the walls and tension in the air, each needing a personal triumph in the worst kind of way. The first man, Bruce, sprints down the sideline in Atlanta's Georgia Dome, turns for a spiral, catches it in front of one defensive back, ducks under another and flashes into the end zone to give the Rams the winning touchdown in the most thrilling Super Bowl finish ever. He's covered in hugs. "That wasn't me," Bruce says later. "That was all God. I knew I had to make an adjustment on the ball, and God did the rest."
The other man, Thomas, knows he has to make an adjustment, too. After six hours of emergency surgery on Jan. 24 at Miami's Jackson Memorial Hospital, he woke to find himself paralyzed from the chest down. His Super Bowl Sunday goal is to find the courage to let himself be lifted out of his bed and into a wheelchair for his first ride into a future he never dreamed of. Surrounded by his new teammates -- his mother, his surgeon, his therapists -- in a room papered with banners from well-wishers, it's too much. He decides not to try. His head sinks back into the pillow. He's covered in hugs. "Tomorrow," says Barth Green, the University of Miami spinal-cord specialist who operated on him. "Tomorrow he gets in the wheelchair. Today, with the game on and everything, it's very tough."
In Atlanta, Bruce's tomorrows are all limos and roses. He wears a Super Bowl championship hat, a Super Bowl championship T-shirt and a smile you can't buy. "Coach [wide receivers coach Al Saunders] told me to work hard and good things will happen," Bruce says. "He was right."
In Miami, Thomas wears a rigid collar around his neck, a plastic shell around his chest and a deadness in his eye you can't miss. He hasn't shaved, and he's hardly eaten in a week. He's listening to a pep talk from two more new teammates -- Nick and Marc Buoniconti. Nick is the bustling former All-Pro linebacker for the Miami Dolphins; Marc, his son, is in a wheelchair, left crippled by one play with The Citadel in 1985. Together with Green, they helped start the Miami Project, a 120-scientist dream to cure spinal paralysis.
The Buonicontis tell Thomas that if he's ever going to walk again, it will be through the Miami Project (800-543-WALK). They tell him if he works hard -- raising cash and hope -- good things will happen. Thomas hopes they're right.

TWO MEN. Two flips of fate.
"Do you ever think about Thomas and say, 'That could be me'?" I ask Bruce.
"Oh, no, not at all," Bruce says.
"Why not?" I ask.
"Because as I was flipping, I threw my hands off the wheel and called Jesus' name."
"Does that mean God doesn't love Derrick Thomas?" I ask.
"Oh, no," Bruce says. "I don't know what Derrick said as his car was flipping."
"What about Payne Stewart? He was a Christian man. Does that mean God didn't love Payne Stewart?"
"I have no idea what Payne Stewart said in that plane that day."
"Well, are you saying if Payne Stewart had invoked the name of Jesus Christ, he'd be alive today?"
"Oh, definitely."
"What about the Columbine High student who was asked by one of the killers if she believed in God? She said yes, and he blew her away. How can that be?"
"You don't know what she said, do you?"
"There were witnesses."
"But you weren't there, right?"

TWO MEN. Pray for them both.

[Rams Fan]

Something about how if he had said Jesus' name during the car crash he would have been fine. Isaac Bruce is a religious nutjob.


Bruce was in a car accident in 1999. His car flipped, and he yelled Jesus. So that's probably the reason why he said that.

[Shogun]

Something about how if he had said Jesus' name during the car crash he would have been fine. Isaac Bruce is a religious nutjob.

Does he Moonlight as Tebow?

[Thig Lyfe]

Bruce was in a car accident in 1999. His car flipped, and he yelled Jesus. So that's probably the reason why he said that.


Yeah. And he's a nutjob.

[Phobia]

He's definitely up there somewhere. It's so subjective. You could literally group wide receivers into two groups - small, quick guys and tall, jumpy guys... Then there are guys who played on crappy teams and were primary targets and guys who played on balanced teams... I don't know. I wouldn't want to be the one making decisions.

[Rain Man]

Thanks. I'd never heard that before. I knew that Bruce was a little over the top, but he was further over than I thought. I bet he and Kurt Warner were the best of buds unless they were from slightly different churches where one used drew the horizontal part of the cross first and the other drew the vertical part, in which case they probably hated each other.

I guess I wouldn't view that as an insult to Derrick Thomas. It's just kind of weird. But whatever gets Isaac through the day.

[Garcia Bronco]

No Moss in there? Really?

I know he's a jerk but there's no way Art Monk and Steve Largent are better WRs.

That's the different eras, but it's my list...so Rod Smith is on there. Moss is obviously up there.

The funny thing is it seems more people agree on number 1 by comparison to any other football top ten.

[sedated]

You're joking, right? He's Top 10 stat wise and is at least Top 20 all time.

don't come into a rival forum, ask a question about some guy who had nothing to do with our team, then get butt-hurt at the responses. You asked for opinions, and you are getting them.

[Rain Man]

He's definitely up there somewhere. It's so subjective. You could literally group wide receivers into two groups - small, quick guys and tall, jumpy guys... Then there are guys who played on crappy teams and were primary targets and guys who played on balanced teams... I don't know. I wouldn't want to be the one making decisions.

That's a good point. I find that the smallish receivers don't make my list - the Ellards and the Largents - because I didn't find them to be frightening when I saw them play. There were small and quick guys who scared me to death when we played them - John Jefferson immediately comes to mind, and Wesley Walker of the Jets - but they didn't have long enough careers to warrant mention. Maybe I'm biased.

[Sassy Squatch]

Definitely a very good, if not great WR, but top 10? Ehh, theres too many others who I feel contributed more to his teams success. BTW, how the hell do I change my avatar so its NOT THIS DAMN KITTEH!?!?!?!?

[Rain Man]

Definitely a very good, if not great WR, but top 10? Ehh, theres too many others who I feel contributed more to his teams success. BTW, how the hell do I change my avatar so its NOT THIS DAMN KITTEH!?!?!?!?


When you register, the system identifies the avatar that best fits your personality. There's nothing you can do. I had to specifically ask a moderator to change mine from Charles Manson.

[Sassy Squatch]

Yikes... That actually sucks pretty hardcore...

[Shogun]

I didn't have one when I signed up.

[Sassy Squatch]

Gonna guess it goes by your post count until you can put your own avatar on it then?

[Garcia Bronco]

Gonna guess it goes by your post count until you can put your own avatar on it then?

yeah...I just turn them off

[Phobia]

Gonna guess it goes by your post count until you can put your own avatar on it then?

Yeah - lots of porn spammers come here. You'll have to be patient. It's probably 30 or 50 posts.

[KcMizzou]

Definitely a very good, if not great WR, but top 10? Ehh, theres too many others who I feel contributed more to his teams success. BTW, how the hell do I change my avatar so its NOT THIS DAMN KITTEH!?!?!?!?You will keep teh kitteh, and you will like it.

[Sassy Squatch]

Damn, cant even post the image I was planning on using. Cant argue with the reasoning if pornbots be spammin up your forums though

[Rain Man]

Gonna guess it goes by your post count until you can put your own avatar on it then?


That's another theory, but I still think it's based on one's personality. It's kind of indictment of shogun that he didn't even get an avatar.

[Shogun]

If it wasn't for Porn-bots I wouldn't be here. This place is all my 56k connection can handle.

[Shogun]

That's another theory, but I still think it's based on one's personality. It's kind of indictment of shogun that he didn't even get an avatar.

It means the CP gods know I will throw up 10k posts before Christmas.

[KcMizzou]

Damn, cant even post the image I was planning on using. Cant argue with the reasoning if pornbots be spammin up your forums thoughYeah, all kidding aside, it was needed. Wont take much to become a full-fledged member. Welcome aboard.

[Rain Man]

We are a loving and accepting society who always welcomes strangers. Come in and make yourself at home. Just don't touch anybody. Because we don't like being touched.

[KcMizzou]

We are a loving and accepting society who always welcomes strangers. Come in and make yourself at home. Just don't touch anybody. Because we don't like being touched.Personal space is a serious issue, and it is to be respected at all times.

[Shogun]

You can share all of meat dragons shit though, that guy DGAF

[Sassy Squatch]

I'll make sure there's an adult around for you.

[KcMizzou]

You can share all of meat dragons shit though, that guy DGAFLMAO

[Sassy Squatch]

The guy who shares shampoo?

[Shogun]

Amongst other things

[Sassy Squatch]

I was reading that a while ago. Pretty humerous

[Rain Man]

He didn't say anything about conditioner, and I respect that. Conditioner is much more personal than shampoo, because it's related to body.

[Shogun]

Nah, Hell nah, I believe you get your ass kicked saying something like that.

[Thig Lyfe]

Watch this motherfucker put up a bunch of interracial porn the moment he hits 50 posts.

[Rams Fan]

He didn't say anything about conditioner, and I respect that. Conditioner is much more personal than shampoo, because it's related to body.

That's why there's 2-1 Shampoo and Conditioner.

[KcMizzou]

Watch this mother****er put up a bunch of interracial porn the moment he hits 50 posts.Ya think?

[Sassy Squatch]

Gonna be a bit more than just interracial, "mother****er

[Shogun]

GO FULL ON, BLACK MAN AMPUTEE HARDWARE STORE PORN.

Trust me its out there.

[KcMizzou]

GO FULL ON, BLACK MAN AMPUTEE HARDWARE STORE PORN.

Trust me its out there.It's ALL out there.

Rule 34. Google it.

[Shogun]

Isaac Bruce got fucking obliterated in this thread

[Sassy Squatch]

GO FULL ON, BLACK MAN AMPUTEE HARDWARE STORE PORN.

Trust me its out there.
Sad thing is. you're probably right

[Sassy Squatch]

Isaac Bruce starred in a BLACK MAN AMPUTEE HARDWARE STORE PORN.

[KcMizzou]

Rule 34 has me wondering. What are the previous 33 rules?

Rain Man?

[Shogun]

Rule 34 has me wondering. What are the previous 33 rules?

Rain Man?

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Rules_of_the_Internet

[KcMizzou]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Rules_of_the_InternetI'll be damned. Thanks.

[Shogun]

So basically all of the other rules are retarded, and we should just be looking for more ways to fuck.

[Sassy Squatch]

So basically all of the other rules are retarded, and we should just be looking for more ways to fuck.
.......Theres, like 5 seperate things you could have posted that all wouldve been censored. We shall never know your intended message...

[Shogun]

It was never meant to be then, my young kitten.

[Rams Fan]

.......Theres, like 5 seperate things you could have posted that all wouldve been censored. We shall never know your intended message...

I feel sad that I will never know what the **** stood for...

[Rain Man]

Rule 34 has me wondering. What are the previous 33 rules?

Rain Man?

I'm going to have to look into this. I know that Rule 4 is "the second use of any new technology is pornography" and that Rule 11 is "any pornography involving a redhead will have better dialog than pornography not involving a redhead", but I don't know the others offhand.

[Rain Man]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Rules_of_the_Internet


Oh, my bad. I thought we were talking about the rules of pornography. I know I have them around here somewhere.

[KCBOSS1]

If the stats say he's top 10, who's to say that he's not?

[Brock]

If the stats say he's top 10, who's to say that he's not?

I think he's top 10 but there's lots of valid arguments for not.

[Rain Man]

I gotta say that that team was entertaining when they were at their peak. I can't remember what game it was, but there was a clip of one of them (Bruce or Holt) running for a long touchdown and the other was just running alongside him almost casually, with no defender in sight. They were so good that their blockers couldn't even remain occupied.

[Ralphy Boy]

I gotta say that that team was entertaining when they were at their peak. I can't remember what game it was, but there was a clip of one of them (Bruce or Holt) running for a long touchdown and the other was just running alongside him almost casually, with no defender in sight. They were so good that their blockers couldn't even remain occupied.

I thought that was Holt & Hakim

[Rausch]

I think he's top 10 but there's lots of valid arguments for not.

I'd say definitely a top 20, probably top 15, but 10......eh.......I dunno'...

[Chiefnj2]

At first I thought top 20, then when I thought about it, I'd say probably closer to 20 or just above it.

[Rain Man]

I thought that was Holt & Hakim

eh, you could be right. It's imprinted in my mind except for the players and the opponent and the date. but i'm pretty sure they were rams.
Posted via Mobile Device