NFL.com breaks down Moeaki's great blocking

[Lzen]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81ba9415/Playbook-Top-rookies

[NIUhuskies]

IOWA!

[booyaf2]

:whackit:

[crossbow]

Thanks for that clip. It was fun to watch.

[Groves]

I'm gonna suggest that if you have a pinkie finger that goes east or west when it should be going north, you ought not wave it around in front of peoples noses when giving commentary on a sports program.

I did automatically give him +10 in the toughness category, without even knowing how it happened.

[Oregon chief]

For some reason my work computer doesn't want to play videos from nfl.com. Strange because it plays videos from everything else. I don't suppose anyone can embed the video here could they?

[bluehawkdoc]

Agree with above, thanks. Good analysis by those guys... Moeaki has been a great pick so far. The rookie production on this team has been phenomenal. Like they said in the clip, when you have rookies contributing at a high level, it's like playing with "house" $$$.:thumb:

[BossChief]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...fuck we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp

[Reerun_KC]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp


Pioli is a draft failure....

[Chiefs Rool]

nice vid, good to see him getting some love

[Red Dawg]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp

STFU! Whiny ass!

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp

Moeaki will be a stud for years and years. Damn good pick!

[teedubya]

Yeah, he has been completely badass... I just pray he stays healthy. I love his contributions to the team.

[TheGuardian]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp

heh........

Boy there was in fact an explosion of bitching on draft day about this pick. And I am saying right now this kid has all the tools to be a pro bowler for years to come. But hey, coulda had a nose tackle or some special teams linebacker with that pick, so Pioli obviously sucks ass.

[OnTheWarpath15]

heh........

Boy there was in fact an explosion of bitching on draft day about this pick. And I am saying right now this kid has all the tools to be a pro bowler for years to come. But hey, coulda had a nose tackle or some special teams linebacker with that pick, so Pioli obviously sucks ass.

So, you're saying the same thing everyone else said.

People bitched about the pick because he couldn't stay healthy in college, not because of a lack of talent.

But why let the facts get in the way?

[Crush]

Posted via Mobile Device

[Pitt Gorilla]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cpYou especially don't do it for the 17th ranked TE in the draft!

[okiedokieokoye]

We moved up 9 spots to get Tony. We lost our 4th round pick to do this. That's not a huge sacrifice by any means.

[JohnnyV13]

So, you're saying the same thing everyone else said.

People bitched about the pick because he couldn't stay healthy in college, not because of a lack of talent.

But why let the facts get in the way?

In fact, I recall many complained not so much about Moeaki, but rather that there were a number of good tight ends still on the board so that we probably didn't need to trade up.

That complaint seems pretty legit now, because we can look at Aaron Hernandez who was taken in the 4th round by the Pats.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In fact, I recall many complained not so much about Moeaki, but rather that there were a number of good tight ends still on the board so that we probably didn't need to trade up.

That complaint seems pretty legit now, because we can look at Aaron Hernandez who was taken in the 4th round by the Pats.

You're absolutely correct.

I don't recall anyone disputing his talent.

I do, however, recall people not being thrilled that we traded up, when we could have had him, or someone as talented with our original pick. And people were concerned that he missed something like 26 of Iowa's 52 games while he was there.

And there were people that weren't thrilled with the fact that the regime had traded up to take a TE two years running.

[Rausch]

In fact, I recall many complained not so much about Moeaki, but rather that there were a number of good tight ends still on the board so that we probably didn't need to trade up.

That complaint seems pretty legit now, because we can look at Aaron Hernandez who was taken in the 4th round by the Pats.

I complained because we didn't appear to be addressing the WR position, offensive line, or defensive line.

Then we draft a JV Gonzo who's always injured.

[Hootie]

You're absolutely correct.

I don't recall anyone disputing his talent.

I do, however, recall people not being thrilled that we traded up, when we could have had him, or someone as talented with our original pick. And people were concerned that he missed something like 26 of Iowa's 52 games while he was there.

And there were people that weren't thrilled with the fact that the regime had traded up to take a TE two years running.

I think it's getting close to time for you to start apologizing for your draft day meltdown this year.

Anyone hear from Mecca lately? Or are the Chiefs too good this year?

[unothadeal]

Posted via Mobile Device

I agree

[Hootie]

In 22 games Pioli has turned the Chiefs into one of the best teams in the NFL...

and really...there is no disputing that...name 8 teams better than the Chiefs. Name 5...

People still want to give Herm and Kurarich the credit...sure, they brought talented players to this team...no doubt...

But how much of it has been coaching by Haley and the assistants?

did DJ ever play as good as he's playing now? Hali?

Has Bowe ever been as focused?

They changed the entire culture of this team...for the better. Pioli drafted talented players this year with winning attitudes...and it's paying huge dividends.

Hamas Jenkins struck Pioli out 9,000 times last year...

So far he had a weak draft in 2009 where EVERYONE seemed to have a pretty weak draft...

and then he followed it up with what appears to be a LEGENDARY draft class...

and suddenly we're a top team in the AFC...

and if Cassel keeps improving the way he has been improving...and the confidence builds...and we start getting more from that position...

with our crowd and our homefield we can go a long way this year...

and Pioli is responsible...

and has anyone noticed how quite our drafturbators have been this year???

They know they screwed the pooch on Pioli...they gave him ZERO TIME to do anything...and now look...

Guess there was a reason he was the executive of the decade, after all...

[-King-]

Well atleast OTWP was right about McCluster...

And the Rams understand value.

Gilyard is a better WR and KR than the guy we took 70 picks ago.
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6708740&postcount=4961
ROFL

[BossChief]

So, you're saying the same thing everyone else said.

People bitched about the pick because he couldn't stay healthy in college, not because of a lack of talent.

But why let the facts get in the way?
This is true about some posters...others lambasted the kid over and over before and after the draft saying over and over "the guy is no better than the 17th ranked tight end in this class on ANY draft site"

Well before the draft I had multiple arguments with many posters here about his ability to be a total player. I compare(d) him to Visante Shiancoe as a receiver (and got laughed at for my efforts, just wait till Cassel develops, or we get a real quarterback in here he will be a deadly weapon in the passing game) and he is one of the best tight ends in the NFL as a blocker. I pointed out over and over how well he helped shut down Derrick Morgan in their bowl game while having a damn good receiving game and helping for us seal the edge on running plays all in the same bowl game.

We moved up 9 spots to get Tony. We lost our 4th round pick to do this. That's not a huge sacrifice by any means.We lost our fourth rounder and a late fifth rounder in the trade for a player that could very well be a perennial probowl player if he is able to avoid the fluke injuries he suffered in college.

You're absolutely correct.

I don't recall anyone disputing his talent.

I do, however, recall people not being thrilled that we traded up, when we could have had him, or someone as talented with our original pick. And people were concerned that he missed something like 26 of Iowa's 52 games while he was there.

And there were people that weren't thrilled with the fact that the regime had traded up to take a TE two years running.
haha

if you still think that there were multiple other "just as talented" players available there, you don't watch blocking very much and just care about the receptions a tight end gets.

Put Moeaki on the Patriots and he would look like a much better player overall than Hernandez, which is a receiving tight end, not a complete player.

...

Also, I cant believe you guys still bitch about Pioli trading a future seventh round pick to get back into the 7th round of last years draft to take a player with a good size/speed ratio for a position of need. You cant win em all (or in the case of the 2009 draft, you cant win at all)

...

So far, Tony Moeaki has been our best draft pick!

[-King-]

And I know GoChiefs loves to bump drafturbator posts...so...

...After finding out what we gave up for Moeaki

My god.

Fire Pioli now. Just fucking reboot this shit, Clark.


I'm literally just sitting here giggling about the absurdity of this draft.

Pioli is a buffoon. There is no way around it at this point.

[Hootie]

Well atleast OTWP was right about McCluster...


http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6708740&postcount=4961
ROFL

OTWP had a rough draft weekend...no doubt

[Reerun_KC]

and has anyone noticed how quite our drafturbators have been this year???




This has been the biggest surprise....

[-King-]

Ok...I think the draft thread just goes to show you that no matter what....nobody on this forum knows WTF they're doing. Mecca just looks like a fucking dumbass looking through his posts.

[Hootie]

the Saints took Graham 95th...

I bet the Chiefs thought the Saints wanted Moeaki and they traded up to snag him...

Can't fault the decision, can't fault the compensation...

and damn...we got a great, great, great player out of it...

Moeaki is a beast...

The only thing that scares me is he takes a lot of hits...and he doesn't take they very gracefully...he'll have injuries over the years...you can just tell...he won't be the iron man Tony Gonzalez was...

but he has been our best draft pick thus far...

and although the stat sheet doesn't jump out at you...McCluster played a HELL of a game on Sunday and he's a straight up baller. That dude was a hell of a pick, too...

[Hootie]

Ok...I think the draft thread just goes to show you that no matter what....nobody on this forum knows WTF they're doing. Mecca just looks like a ****ing dumbass looking through his posts.

yeah and he does every year...

but the "gurus" think they have it all figured out...and think they know better than NFL GM's...

it's sad, really

[BossChief]

Real talk:

Pioli should be the GM of the year so far for 2010.

He had a rough get going in 2009, but has surely redeemed himself through his additions to this team this year.

No question that he has done the best job of any GM in the league this year.

IMO

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Asamoah
Moeaki
Lewis
Weigman
Lilja
Romeo
Weis
Shaun Smith
Getting something for Page/Magee

Thats one hell of a good haul.

[Reerun_KC]

the Saints took Graham 95th...

I bet the Chiefs thought the Saints wanted Moeaki and they traded up to snag him...

Can't fault the decision, can't fault the compensation...

and damn...we got a great, great, great player out of it...

Moeaki is a beast...

The only thing that scares me is he takes a lot of hits...and he doesn't take they very gracefully...he'll have injuries over the years...you can just tell...he won't be the iron man Tony Gonzalez was...

but he has been our best draft pick thus far...

and although the stat sheet doesn't jump out at you...McCluster played a HELL of a game on Sunday and he's a straight up baller. That dude was a hell of a pick, too...

When I heard the pick of McCluster and Arenas, I was like WTF Mate! But then again, WTF do I know?

Both picks have proven to be great picks...

[-King-]

Oh Mecca ROFL ROFL

Swap out our 2nds for the Ravens 2nds and take Moaki off and put in someone like Griffen or Sapp and this draft is a homerun.


BTW, anyone notice how Mecca was on RIGHT AFTER the Houston loss...but after we beat the Jags, he posts like once a day?

[Hootie]

I understand having an opinion etc. etc. etc.

but these guys are extreme...especially on draft weekend

It's ridiculous.

So far...

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Moeaki
Lewis

is shaping up to be a legendary draft class...and we still probably have some value in Asamoah...

shit other than Berry...their favorite player was Asamoah and he doesn't even play!

[Hootie]

Oh Mecca ROFL ROFL




BTW, anyone notice how Mecca was on RIGHT AFTER the Houston loss...but after we beat the Jags, he posts like once a day?

he's a troll...nothing more, nothing less

and now that USC suffered the death penalty he has nothing to cheer for...

Chiefs are good, USC is bad. What the fuck does he have to post about?

Maybe the asshole should find a job and start being a productive member of society or something.

[Hootie]

When I heard the pick of McCluster and Arenas, I was like WTF Mate! But then again, WTF do I know?

Both picks have proven to be great picks...

I was shocked when I heard McClusters name...

and then I did some research...

and realized Pioli wanted gamebreakers...

can't fault him for that

[bsp4444]

Ok...I think the draft thread just goes to show you that no matter what....nobody on this forum knows WTF they're doing. Mecca just looks like a ****ing dumbass looking through his posts.

That's why I don't understand some of the vitriol spouted over the draft. It's ok to discuss and give opinions, but crimony, be open to other people's opinions. We can't all be Dane McCloud.

[Reerun_KC]

I was shocked when I heard McClusters name...

and then I did some research...

and realized Pioli wanted gamebreakers...

can't fault him for that

The speed difference is just amazing... I am actually looking forward to next years draft and what this team becomes over the course of the next 3-5 years...

But this season has so far been amazing... The next 10 games are going to be a hoot!

[TheGuardian]

Oh Mecca ROFL ROFL




BTW, anyone notice how Mecca was on RIGHT AFTER the Houston loss...but after we beat the Jags, he posts like once a day?

i've said all along that Mecca isn't really a chiefs fan. He's just a fucking worthless troll who doesn't know shit. His takes on the draft every year look unreal comical. He RARELY gets anything even remotely close. So whatever MEcca or OnTheShitPath58 says, just know it will be the opposite. It's the same for Dane but not quite as often.

[keg in kc]

Man some of you guys are really butt hurt. Why do you let those guys get to you?

[TheGuardian]

Man some of you guys are really butt hurt. Why do you let those guys get to you?

I think because those guys spend all of their time propping themselves up as some kind of be-all-end-all expert then proceed to shit the bed on everything they say and get everything wrong.

They should expect it really.

[Lzen]

Man some of you guys are really butt hurt. Why do you let those guys get to you?

Perhaps its not that people have opinions on things the organization does. Perhaps its more the fact that some people think their own opinions on how the organization does things are more valid than other people's opinions on how to do those things. And some even go so far as to denigrate differing opinions. When that happens, I guess it must make it even sweeter when they are proven wrong.

[Chief Henry]

IOWA!

If Iowa could only remember to make sure the punter punts the :cuss: :cuss:
football !!!!!!!!

[salame]

You dont trade multiple picks for tight ends...**** we gave up a 4th and fifth rounder for this guy FML /cp

Remember when I told you I hoped he was as good as you said he was...
you are right on so far

[BossChief]

Remember when I told you I hoped he was as good as you said he was...
you are right on so far

Yeah, I do actually. Thanks.

[DBOSHO]

This might be piolis best move in his tenure so far.

[ChiefGator]

Awesome... thanks for posting that.

[Shogun]

Great video, we need to keep that kid healthy, he is doing his part and more for us.

[Mecca]

The butthurt in this thread is hilarious, the internet it is life.

[|Zach|]

The butthurt in this thread is hilarious, the internet it is life.

WHO IS GONNA COVER VERNON DAVIS!?!?!?!

[BossChief]

The butthurt in this thread is hilarious, the internet it is life.

So says the guy with 80,000 posts in 5 years.

FTR, you would have a lot more respect if you just came out and admitted when you were wrong now and again. Instead, you tend to act like you know everything and everyone else is and idiot (CPTM) if they don't agree with you....only to be followed up by being wrong about a shitload of your takes.

When you clown people for their opposing opinion to yours and they turn out to be right, don't they deserve to claim the credit for such? (this is in no way in relation to our numerous conversations about Moeaki/Angerer predraft)

You know as well as all the rest of us that if this team was 2-4 or 1-5...you would probably have another 7,000 posts...so, really, who is butthurt here mecca?

[jspchief]

Man some of you guys are really butt hurt. Why do you let those guys get to you?How many threads/discussions do those assholes derail every year with their "expertise"? And they can't just have an opinion and make it known. It has to be pounded into the skulls of any poster that doesn't agree verbatim.

Is anyone in this thread anymore "butthurt" that the drafturbators trolling threads in the off-season like a pack of feral dogs?

Really no surprise they are being called out now.

[Mecca]

So says the guy with 80,000 posts in 5 years.

FTR, you would have a lot more respect if you just came out and admitted when you were wrong now and again. Instead, you tend to act like you know everything and everyone else is a idiot if they dont agree with you....only to be followed up by being wrong about a shitload of your takes.

When you clown people for their opposing opinion to yours and they turn out to be right, don't they deserve to claim the credit for such? (this is in no way in relation to our numerous conversations about Moeaki/Angerer predraft)

You know as well as all the rest of us that if this team was 2-4 or 1-5...you would probably have another 7,000 posts...so, really, who is butthurt here mecca?

Uh dude when you discuss the draft you're gonna miss frequently, guys who do it for a living miss frequently.

Also judging a draft 5 minutes after it happened as the best draft ever is pretty bad.

I've said I was wrong plenty of times, do you want me to walk around with a trumpet or something? I'm sorry I thought drafting a guy who missed half his teams games in college wasn't a real good move.

[|Zach|]

Uh dude when you discuss the draft you're gonna miss frequently, guys who do it for a living miss frequently.

Also judging a draft 5 minutes after it happened as the best draft ever is pretty bad.

I've said I was wrong plenty of times, do you want me to walk around with a trumpet or something? I'm sorry I thought drafting a guy who missed half his teams games in college wasn't a real good move.

The Chiefs won this past weekend. Go away dude.

[HemiEd]

Moeaki will be a stud for years and years. Damn good pick!

yeah, but they could have picked him in the 8th, he would have still been there.

[BossChief]

Uh dude when you discuss the draft you're gonna miss frequently, guys who do it for a living miss frequently.

Also judging a draft 5 minutes after it happened as the best draft ever is pretty bad.

I've said I was wrong plenty of times, do you want me to walk around with a trumpet or something? I'm sorry I thought drafting a guy who missed half his teams games in college wasn't a real good move.

I understand you are gonna miss frequently, but when you clown people for disagreeing with you and they turn out to be right, you cant claim they are butthurt for calling you on it.

Who called it the best draft ever 5 minutes after the draft? I thought it was pretty damn good but nowhere near best ever. In fact, I started a thread the next day asking for everyones grade of the draft and I kicked it off by grading it a B.

Like I said, this has very little to do with Moeaki and more to do with you guys clowning people for their takes, even when they are backed with numerous amounts of data to back their argument. Its fun and entertaining to do so, but just be prepared when it blows up in your face.

A lot of the shit you get, you ask for.

[Shogun]

I don't bother getting upset at draft picks, I have no control over them anyways. I support my Chiefs year in and year out, win or lose. If we draft a good rookie and they perform well, Then good, if not, cut him or trade him. Makes no difference to me, I'm a Chiefs fan, and I'm not letting a Draft pick change that.

[CrazyHorse]

Uh dude when you discuss the draft you're gonna miss frequently, guys who do it for a living miss frequently.

Also judging a draft 5 minutes after it happened as the best draft ever is pretty bad.

I've said I was wrong plenty of times, do you want me to walk around with a trumpet or something? I'm sorry I thought drafting a guy who missed half his teams games in college wasn't a real good move.

To be fair, you should trumpet the fact that you're wrong as much and as often as you proclaim you are right. In other words, you'll need more than a trumpet, and you'll need to start multiple threads and post in multiple threads until people are sick of it.

To be fair. You should kick yourself in the ass as much as you pat yourself on the back.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think it's getting close to time for you to start apologizing for your draft day meltdown this year.

Anyone hear from Mecca lately? Or are the Chiefs too good this year?

Yeah, because I'm the only person who's ever been wrong here, Mr. Tony Romo, HOF'er.

:rollseyes:

And FWIW, we're what, 6 games in?

Funny how Tyson Jackson needs 3 years to develop, but some of you are 100% positive that Dexter is the black Wes Welker after 6 games.

Please.

[OnTheWarpath15]

OTWP had a rough draft weekend...no doubt

Why's that?

Because I didn't change my mind after the fact like 99% of the board did?

This place erupted after Dexter was taken, and again when Arenas was taken.

Then, after the fact, people changed their minds - just like after the Cassel trade.

I'd rather have an opinion and be wrong than be a flip-flopper.

[HemiEd]

:popcorn: :popcorn:

This thread has some real potential.

[BossChief]

We are all wrong from time to time...even the best of us.

The difference is that some of us own those failures (I liked Krumrie, Thigpen and even defended Herm to a point...hell, I am talking about us drafting Ricki Stanzi in the second round FCS) and others act like they never happened and go on clowning everyone else thinking they are deserving of being on some pedestal.

[Direckshun]

So far...

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Moeaki
Lewis

Let's tone down on the "legendary draft" stuff.

This draft gave us some excellent role players. But it didn't give us much at the most important positions: QB, WR, DL, passrusher.

Berry is really the only one of the bunch that has the upside to be a player that this franchise could revolve around.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I do find it comical that those of us that didn't care for some of the picks have already been "proven wrong" after 6 games, while nothing is said about 2009, in which most of us were dead right, at least after 24 games.

So, to recap, Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel need more time before we can declare them bad picks, but we can declare Dexter and Arenas great picks after six games.

Comical the lengths people will go to pile on people they don't like.

[|Zach|]

Let's tone down on the "legendary draft" stuff.

This draft gave us some excellent role players. But it didn't give us much at the most important positions: QB, WR, DL, passrusher.

Berry is really the only one of the bunch that has the upside to be a player that this franchise could revolve around.

Did you expect multiple picks from this draft that a franchise "can revolve around"

[OnTheWarpath15]

We are all wrong from time to time...even the best of us.

The difference is that some of us own those failures (I liked Krumrie, Thigpen and even defended Herm to a point...hell, I am talking about us drafting Ricki Stanzi in the second round FCS) and others act like they never happened and go on clowning everyone else thinking they are deserving of being on some pedestal.

The only person who doesn't regularly own up to their misses is Mecca, and he's much better than he used to be about it.

That doesn't keep people from lumping others in with him.

[BossChief]

Why's that?

Because I didn't change my mind after the fact like 99% of the board did?

This place erupted after Dexter was taken, and again when Arenas was taken.

Then, after the fact, people changed their minds - just like after the Cassel trade.

I'd rather have an opinion and be wrong than be a flip-flopper.

This place erupted because we had ZERO confidence in Matt Cassel and from that standpoint the ONLY pick was Clausen after he fell so far, and right into our laps. For all we know, Cassel might end up as a damn good quarterback and in the long term, DMC may end up the easy best pick at that spot. Hopefully, that's the case.

Once we got over that, we started realizing that DMC is one hell of a good playmaker and most of us wanted exactly that before the draft.

Hell, he is looking just as good or better as Spiller and some of you (Im looking right at you OTWP) would have been totally fine with CJ at 5. DMC is essentially a smaller, quicker version that we got at 36. Once we realized that, it was all gravy baby.

[-King-]

I do find it comical that those of us that didn't care for some of the picks have already been "proven wrong" after 6 games, while nothing is said about 2009, in which most of us were dead right, at least after 24 games.

So, to recap, Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel need more time before we can declare them bad picks, but we can declare Dexter and Arenas great picks after six games.

Comical the lengths people will go to pile on people they don't like.

Lmao who has said they weren't bad picks?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Fritz88]

I am impressed with the kid. I will have to give props to Pioli for trading up for him.

I will see how things (and people in here) turn out when he picks an injury.

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

We are all wrong from time to time...even the best of us.

The difference is that some of us own those failures (I liked Krumrie, Thigpen and even defended Herm to a point...hell, I am talking about us drafting Ricki Stanzi in the second round FCS) and others act like they never happened and go on clowning everyone else thinking they are deserving of being on some pedestal.

I dare you to find a post where I was wrong!


That's what I thought.

:)

[OnTheWarpath15]

This place erupted because we had ZERO confidence in Matt Cassel and from that standpoint the ONLY pick was Clausen after he fell so far, and right into our laps. For all we know, Cassel might end up as a damn good quarterback and in the long term, DMC may end up the easy best pick at that spot. Hopefully, that's the case.

Once we got over that, we started realizing that DMC is one hell of a good playmaker and most of us wanted exactly that before the draft.

Hell, he is looking just as good or better as Spiller and some of you (Im looking right at you OTWP) would have been totally fine with CJ at 5. DMC is essentially a smaller, quicker version that we got at 36. Once we realized that, it was all gravy baby.

You keep saying that, but don't bother to remind anyone who had to be off the board in order for me to want Spiller.

Quit acting as if Spiller was my first choice at 5.

[WilliamTheIrish]

We're 4-2. Don't care who wanted what. Don't care who said what. And yes, I thought the Mo pick was bad.

But I'll eat that crow.

[-King-]

You know what's funny? OTWP said that he loved the fact that the Lions chose a playmaker (J.Best) over a need. And the he gets mad that we chose playmakers over our needs.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

Lmao who has said they weren't bad picks?
Posted via Mobile Device

Please tell me you're kidding.

This place goes balls to the wall to defend both on a daily basis.

[-King-]

Please tell me you're kidding.

This place goes balls to the wall to defend both on a daily basis.

Who?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Direckshun]

Did you expect multiple picks from this draft that a franchise "can revolve around"

My first three picks in this draft would have been

Berry
Clausen
Cody

Now... you have a better chance of building around a stud safety, a quarterback, and an elite nose tackle, than you can a stud safety, a gadget player, and a returner/nickelback.

Now, however each of these players pans out over time is yet to be known. But not all positions were created equal, and I still feel like we spent our blue chips on white chip positions.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You know what's funny? OTWP said that he loved the fact that the Lions chose a playmaker (J.Best) over a need. And the he gets mad that we chose playmakers over our needs.
Posted via Mobile Device

:spock:

Best fit a need for Detroit, as Smith was coming off major knee surgery, and was the BPA at the time.

That's what I would have preferred at the time for us - the best available player at a position of need/value.

But this place will argue that KR's and NCB were a greater need than OLB, ILB and NT.

Guess we'll find out over the long term.

Like I've said a million times, I hope I'm wrong.

[|Zach|]

My first three picks in this draft would have been

Berry
Clausen
Cody

Now... you have a better chance of building around a stud safety, a quarterback, and an elite nose tackle, than you can a stud safety, a gadget player, and a returner/nickelback.

Now, however each of these players pans out over time is yet to be known. But not all positions were created equal, and I still feel like we spent our blue chips on white chip positions.

I see what you are saying but you didn't answer the question. You flippantly said that there is only one guy a franchise can revolve around.

Do you think any team came from this years draft with multiple guys you can revolve a franchise around?

[BossChief]

You keep saying that, but don't bother to remind anyone who had to be off the board in order for me to want Spiller.

Quit acting as if Spiller was my first choice at 5.

the parameters were that we weren't gonna take a QB and Berry was off the board, you had Spiller rated as a A+ pick.

On a scale of 1-10, you rated it a 10 iirc.

Yet, somehow, you are pissed we took a very similar player at 36 though...that's my only point there. Same as it was the last time I brought it up.

You justified taking Spiller because he is not only a running back, he can also play wide out and return kicks.

truth

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who?
Posted via Mobile Device

Do you read this place? I'm guessing not.

Seriously, I don't have time for your games.

[OnTheWarpath15]

the parameters were that we weren't gonna take a QB and Berry was off the board, you had Spiller rated as a A+ pick.

On a scale of 1-10, you rated it a 10 iirc.

Yet, somehow, you are pissed we took a very similar player at 36 though...that's my only point there. Same as it was the last time I brought it up.

You justified taking Spiller because he is not only a running back, he can also play wide out and return kicks.

truth

Who else would have met the value of the 5th overall pick?

It basically comes down to Spiller and Okung in that situation.

Can't imagine why I'd choose Spiller.

[Direckshun]

I see what you are saying but you didn't answer the question. You flippantly said that there is only one guy a franchise can revolve around.

Do you think any team came from this years draft with multiple guys you can revolve a franchise around?

I think several teams did.

My piece is here (http://arrowheadaddict.com/2010/04/30/a-week-later-crocks-nfl-draft-grades/) on Arrowhead Addict.

[BossChief]

Do you read this place? I'm guessing not.

Seriously, I don't have time for your games.
He is talking about Cassel and Jackson....I think you are misunderstand him as talking about Arenas and DMC...
Who else would have met the value of the 5th overall pick?

It basically comes down to Spiller and Okung in that situation.

Can't imagine why I'd choose Spiller.

Guys that would have been a better value over Spiller (when we already had Charles and Jones at RB)

Earl Thomas - give Billay some credit here, he called this kid the way he saw him, he looks to be a damn good player early on. Great with the ball in the air.
Brandon Graham -would be giving us that pass rush threat opposite Hali that we need
Dez Bryant -WR opposite Bowe that can make a play and has #1 potential

All three would be impact players on this team while Spiller would be playing the exact role DMC is currently playing...

Oh yeah, and Tony Moeaki is a fucking STUD of a late third round draft pick!

just saying...

[Direckshun]

Spiller was someone I would have liked at #5 overall.

I don't know why that's controversial with True Fans.

I could have taken Spiller at #5 and then Nate Allen with our 2a, and True Fans would be up in arms.

But switch those players by taking Berry first and then McCluster second, and it's genious?

[keg in kc]

I like Spiller, but Spiller at 5 would have made zero sense.

[BossChief]

Spiller was someone I would have liked at #5 overall.

I don't know why that's controversial with True Fans.

I could have taken Spiller at #5 and then Nate Allen with our 2a, and True Fans would be up in arms.

But switch those players by taking Berry first and then McCluster second, and it's genious?
Dude, you LOVED the 2009 draft and hated the 2010 draft, your opinion here on who is and isn't a true fan is unneeded.

Go play with your Tyson Jackson doll.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Spiller was someone I would have liked at #5 overall.

I don't know why that's controversial with True Fans.

I could have taken Spiller at #5 and then Nate Allen with our 2a, and True Fans would be up in arms.

But switch those players by taking Berry first and then McCluster second, and it's genious?

You've got me, dude.

[Direckshun]

Dude, you LOVED the 2009 draft and hated the 2010 draft, your opinion here on who is and isn't a true fan is unneeded.

Go play with your Tyson Jackson doll.

I really liked it, yes. I didn't like the 2010 draft, yes. I don't know why that disqualifies me from anything?

I'm a foundational guy. I like drafting for foundation. Blue chips spent on blue chip positions.

The 2009 draft was all about that. The 2010 draft was not.

[Direckshun]

I like Spiller, but Spiller at 5 would have made zero sense.

But McCluster makes tons of sense.

[Brock]

I really liked it, yes. I didn't like the 2010 draft, yes. I don't know why that disqualifies me from anything?

I'm a foundational guy. I like drafting for foundation. Blue chips spent on blue chip positions.

The 2009 draft was all about that. The 2010 draft was not.

The 2009 draft was a gigantic FAIL, and 3-4 DE isn't foundation.

[BossChief]

I really liked it, yes. I didn't like the 2010 draft, yes. I don't know why that disqualifies me from anything?

I'm a foundational guy. I like drafting for foundation. Blue chips spent on blue chip positions.

The 2009 draft was all about that. The 2010 draft was not.
haha

RB is not a blue chip position. ESPECIALLY when you already have Charles and Jones.

In case you missed it, we have the #1 running attack in the NFL and we have a top 10 rush defense WITHOUT TYSON JACKSON and CJ SPILLER.

[BossChief]

But McCluster makes tons of sense.

at 36?

FUCK YES

Are you kidding around or being serious?

[Direckshun]

The 2009 draft was a gigantic FAIL, and 3-4 DE isn't foundation.

I completely disagree about 3-4 DE not being foundation.

The 3-4 DE has to be one of the most versatile players on the defense, with the exception perhaps only of the OLB, who has to be a passrusher but also display adequate coverage skills.

The 3-4 DE is someone who must be stout enough at the point of attack to be able to hold up blockers like a DT, but be able to get decent, consistent penetration on passing downs. Get a DE that's too one-sided, and you end up either a player you can run straight at because he's too much of a passrusher (Gilberry) or a player you can rotate your pocket towards because he puts no pressure on your QB (Shaun Smith).

Smith and Gilberry are fine players in certain situations. But Dorsey is the only player on this team that can serve as a true 3-4 DE. So we have to play mix-and-match the rest of the time because TJ isn't getting there fast enough.

Take our defense, but replace the other DE position with Campbell or Dockett from Arizona and we're a true Top 10 defense.

[Direckshun]

haha

RB is not a blue chip position. ESPECIALLY when you already have Charles and Jones.

In case you missed it, we have the #1 running attack in the NFL and we have a top 10 rush defense WITHOUT TYSON JACKSON and CJ SPILLER.

CJ Spiller isn't a pure running back, though. He's Reggie Bush.

He can run routes extremely well, and has amazing hands.

And, might I add, he's not 170 pounds.

[Reerun_KC]

What an interesting thread.

[Direckshun]

at 36?

**** YES

Are you kidding around or being serious?

Serious. McCluster is a gadget player. His size makes it such that spent what was virtually a 1st round pick on a player that can only be a contributor, but not the fulcrum, of our success.

[keg in kc]

But McCluster makes tons of sense.Yes, at 36, he made more sense than Spiller at 5.

Berry is a potential generational player. We didn't just take "a safety" at 5. And he coincidentally happened to fit a need position in the starting lineup. Which means for once we actually had the stars align and took the best player available at a position of need, and a guy that 99% of the football world expects to be an all pro for years.

[Brock]

I completely disagree about 3-4 DE not being foundation.

It's important, but it damn sure isn't top 5 draft pick important. That draft was a giant piece of shit.

[BossChief]

I completely disagree about 3-4 DE not being foundation.

The 3-4 DE has to be one of the most versatile players on the defense, with the exception perhaps only of the OLB, who has to be a passrusher but also display adequate coverage skills.

The 3-4 DE is someone who must be stout enough at the point of attack to be able to hold up blockers like a DT, but be able to get decent, consistent penetration on passing downs. Get a DE that's too one-sided, and you end up either a player you can run straight at because he's too much of a passrusher (Gilberry) or a player you can rotate your pocket towards because he puts no pressure on your QB (Shaun Smith).

Smith and Gilberry are fine players in certain situations. But Dorsey is the only player on this team that can serve as a true 3-4 DE. So we have to play mix-and-match the rest of the time because TJ isn't getting there fast enough.

Take our defense, but replace the other DE position with Campbell or Dockett from Arizona and we're a true Top 10 defense.

Dude, TJ hasnt even played a whole game worth of combined time yet this year. Our DEs are FAR from a weakness this year...in fact we are set at the position...enough so that we sent Alex Magee for picks because we didnt have a spot for him once Jackson returned...


...what games are you watching?

[Direckshun]

Yes, at 36, he made more sense than Spiller at 5.

Berry is a potential generational player. We didn't just take "a safety" at 5. And he coincidentally happened to fit a need position in the starting lineup. Which means for once we actually had the stars align and took the best player available at a position of need, and a guy that 99% of the football world expects to be an all pro for years.

I'm not arguing with the Berry pick.

I still would have taken him over Spiller. I'm just arguing that Spiller was worth the #5 overall.

[philfree]

It's important, but it damn sure isn't top 5 draft pick important. That draft was a giant piece of shit.

This isn't thread releated but IMO Brock and Hamas should trade avatars. It would totally change the way one reads their posts.


PhilFree:arrow:

[BossChief]

Serious. McCluster is a gadget player. His size makes it such that spent what was virtually a 1st round pick on a player that can only be a contributor, but not the fulcrum, of our success.

Dude, watch NFLN today...you will see how DMC already effects entire defenses 6 games into this season.

The same way Spiller would be for us.

slot
movement into and out of the backfield
matchups
space
big plays


He has already shown that he has game breaking ability as a returner as well, same as Spiller.

[BossChief]

I'm not arguing with the Berry pick.

I still would have taken him over Spiller. I'm just arguing that Spiller was worth the #5 overall.

NOT

FOR

US

[Direckshun]

It's important, but it damn sure isn't top 5 draft pick important. That draft was a giant piece of shit.

I don't get this stupid logic. I really don't.

There's not a poster on this board that would disagree that in the 4-3 we've had for years, a DE would be worth a Top 5, and a DT would be worth a Top 5.

But now we move to a scheme where we actually REDUCE the number of hands-in-the-dirt lineman we have lining up, and all of a sudden none of the positions are worth a Top 5 anymore.

It defies logic.

[keg in kc]

I'm not arguing with the Berry pick.

I still would have taken him over Spiller. I'm just arguing that Spiller was worth the #5 overall.My view is that he was worth the 5 overall for another team, but he was not worth the 5 overall for us, not with Berry on the board.

(I don't think players just have an arbitrary universal ranking...)

[Direckshun]

Dude, TJ hasnt even played a whole game worth of combined time yet this year. Our DEs are FAR from a weakness this year...in fact we are set at the position...enough so that we sent Alex Magee for picks because we didnt have a spot for him once Jackson returned...

...what games are you watching?

Magee was just a terrible fit for this scheme. He makes more sense in a 4-3 than he does in a 3-4.

I have to chalk my enthusiasm for him up to the fact that I didn't properly understand the 3-4 yet. I think Magee has a dynamite first step and could be a good 3-tech penetrator, but the skills he did have didn't really match up to our defense that much.

[Direckshun]

Dude, watch NFLN today...you will see how DMC already effects entire defenses 6 games into this season.

The same way Spiller would be for us.

slot
movement into and out of the backfield
matchups
space
big plays

He has already shown that he has game breaking ability as a returner as well, same as Spiller.

I had McCluster with something like a mid-third grade. Spiller was elite talent.

1. His collegiate production was special.
2. He's bigger and can be more physical than McCluster. McCluster is a tough kid but it's hard to imagine he won't miss games every single year because he got unlucky and someone hit him hard.
3. Putting Spiller and Charles on the same field at the same time and you don't even need a third receiver to keep the defense honest.
4. His reception abilities are almost unequalled in the NFL amongst running backs.
5. Spiller's size and versatility allows him to have usefulness in the red zone. McCluster is only really useful between the 20's.

[Brock]

I don't get this stupid logic. I really don't.

There's not a poster on this board that would disagree that in the 4-3 we've had for years, a DE would be worth a Top 5, and a DT would be worth a Top 5.

But now we move to a scheme where we actually REDUCE the number of hands-in-the-dirt lineman we have lining up, and all of a sudden none of the positions are worth a Top 5 anymore.

It defies logic.

You're kind of dumb if you can't look at the draft and see that 3-4 DEs aren't top 5 picks.

[BossChief]

I don't get this stupid logic. I really don't.

There's not a poster on this board that would disagree that in the 4-3 we've had for years, a DE would be worth a Top 5, and a DT would be worth a Top 5.

But now we move to a scheme where we actually REDUCE the number of hands-in-the-dirt lineman we have lining up, and all of a sudden none of the positions are worth a Top 5 anymore.

It defies logic.

Pass rushers are worth top 5 picks all day long.

A pass rusher, Tyson Jackson is not.

LDEs in a 4-3 aren't worth top 5 picks either, unless they have 15-20 sack potential while also stopping the run.

Have a good quarterback
protect the quarterback
get to opposing quarterbacks
stop the run
everything else

in that order and you will win lots and lots of games

[Direckshun]

You're kind of dumb if you can't look at the draft and see that 3-4 DEs aren't top 5 picks.

And yet I've provided reasons as to why I think that's demonstrably untrue, but you just keep repeating that conclusion as if there was anything to back it up.

[Direckshun]

Pass rushers are worth top 5 picks all day long.

A pass rusher, Tyson Jackson is not.

LDEs in a 4-3 aren't worth top 5 picks either, unless they have 15-20 sack potential while also stopping the run.

Have a good quarterback
protect the quarterback
get to opposing quarterbacks
stop the run
everything else

in that order and you will win lots and lots of games

Yeah I can't see a 3-4 DE do anything to help with any of those items.

[Brock]

And yet I've provided reasons as to why I think that's demonstrably untrue, but you just keep repeating that conclusion as if there was anything to back it up.

Before Tyson Jackson, who was the last top 5 3-4 DE? Nothing to back it up, LOL.

[BossChief]

Yeah I can't see a 3-4 DE do anything to help with any of those items.

You still don't understand this defense.

This is not ending well for you, no matter how you think its going.

[Direckshun]

Before Tyson Jackson, who was the last top 5 3-4 DE? Nothing to back it up, LOL.

Do you think Arizona's Dockett would warrant a Top 5 pick if we knew then what we know now?

[Brock]

Do you think Arizona's Dockett would warrant a Top 5 pick if we knew then what we know now?

No. Stop dodging the question.

[Direckshun]

You still don't understand this defense.

This is not ending well for you, no matter how you think its going.

I'm not particularly concerned with how it's going. I'm just looking to kill time.

But thanks for the substantial response. Gives me tonnnnnnnns to go on.

[Direckshun]

No.

k

I take it you just completely missed Super Bowl XLIII.

[Brock]

k

I take it you just completely missed Super Bowl XLIII.

LOL, it was Arizona's awesome D that got them there!!!111one

[Brock]

k

I take it you just completely missed Super Bowl XLIII.

Are you going to point out all those 3-4 DEs that were taken top 5?

[Direckshun]

LOL, it was Arizona's awesome D that got them there!!!111one

Non sequitor.

It is clear from that game alone that Dockett's talents could have warranted a Top 5 pick.

[Brock]

Non sequitor.

It is clear from that game alone that Dockett's talents could have warranted a Top 5 pick.

The non-sequitur is you bringing up non top 5 draft picks to illustrate that Tyson Jackson was worth a top 5 pick. Stupid.

Dockett wouldn't be a top 5 pick unless it was a very shitty draft year.

[Direckshun]

Are you going to point out all those 3-4 DEs that were taken top 5?

That's because it's incredibly difficult to scout for. There are almost no defenses in college football that offer that position in a way that NFL teams use.

You'd either be selecting a DE with elite size or a DT with elite agility, and hope you can coach the guy up.

It's too much of a risk that teams prefer to take later in the draft. But that doesn't mean players can't be worth a Top 5 selection for that position. It's just a gamble if you do.

[Hootie]

The butthurt in this thread is hilarious, the internet it is life.

coming from the guy with no job and lives with mommy...

you're right

internet is (your) life

[Direckshun]

Dockett wouldn't be a top 5 pick unless it was a very shitty draft year.

Alright, that's you on the record.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think virtually every GM in the league would disagree with you, but there you have it.

[Brock]

That's because it's incredibly difficult to scout for. There are almost no defenses in college football that offer that position in a way that NFL teams use.

You'd either be selecting a DE with elite size or a DT with elite agility, and hope you can coach the guy up.

It's too much of a risk that teams prefer to take later in the draft. But that doesn't mean players can't be worth a Top 5 selection for that position. It's just a gamble if you do.

No, that isn't why. It's because teams don't value that position that highly. 3-4 DE isn't a premium position.

[Brock]

Alright, that's you on the record.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think virtually every GM in the league would disagree with you, but there you have it.

Well, let's just say you've kind of shown your opinion on the draft to be pretty worthless.

[Direckshun]

Well, let's just say you've kind of shown your opinion on the draft to be pretty worthless.

Shrug.

I win some, I lose some. I could sit here and list off a hundred players I liked against most odds and went on to do well. I could sit here and list off a hundred that I liked against most odds and went on to suck.

I'm not running from my record. I don't really care.

That's an ad hominem anyways when it comes to the value of a great 3-4 DE.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

coming from the guy with no job and lives with mommy...

you're right

internet is (your) life

I shouldn't laugh at these posts, buy I can't help it.

[Hootie]

:spock:

Best fit a need for Detroit, as Smith was coming off major knee surgery, and was the BPA at the time.

That's what I would have preferred at the time for us - the best available player at a position of need/value.

But this place will argue that KR's and NCB were a greater need than OLB, ILB and NT.

Guess we'll find out over the long term.

Like I've said a million times, I hope I'm wrong.

apparently OLB, ILB and NT weren't needs after all...

[Direckshun]

No, that isn't why. It's because teams don't value that position that highly. 3-4 DE isn't a premium position.

You have yet to argue anything, you just restate this sentence over and over, mixed in with enough logical fallacies to make Pete blush.

[Brock]

You have yet to argue anything, you just restate this sentence over and over, mixed in with enough logical fallacies to make Pete blush.

I restate over and over again that history demonstrates that what I'm saying is true. Your posts consist of would have could have should have.

[BossChief]

You know what kind of 3-4 end is worth top 5 picks?

Suh
Bruce Smith
Reggie White

Guys that get sacks and have the skill set to also play the 5-technique.

3 down players that dominate the run and pass game.

Boiled down, NOT Tyson Jackson.

Disclaimer: I wasn't as pissed about the pick of Tyson Jackson as most. Due to the weakness of the class overall and the risk involved in all of the top guys.

[BossChief]

apparently OLB, ILB and NT weren't needs after all...

NT and OLB are still needs...but none of the guys available at 36 would have been a better pick than DMC IMO. Or made as big of an impact.

Studebaker is gonna be a damn good player...just watch.

[Brock]

You know what kind of 3-4 end is worth top 5 picks?

Suh
Bruce Smith
Reggie White

Guys that get sacks and have the skill set to also play the 5-technique.

3 down players that dominate the run and pass game.

Boiled down, NOT Tyson Jackson.

Disclaimer: I wasn't as pissed about the pick of Tyson Jackson as most. Due to the weakness of the class overall and the risk involved in all of the top guys.

You get it.

[Direckshun]

I restate over and over again that history demonstrates that what I'm saying is true. Your posts consist of would have could have should have.

Really? Because I thought my posts consist of a comprehensive argument in favor of the 3-4 DE's value from a nuanced point of view, featuring a prime example of my point of view:

I completely disagree about 3-4 DE not being foundation.

The 3-4 DE has to be one of the most versatile players on the defense, with the exception perhaps only of the OLB, who has to be a passrusher but also display adequate coverage skills.

The 3-4 DE is someone who must be stout enough at the point of attack to be able to hold up blockers like a DT, but be able to get decent, consistent penetration on passing downs. Get a DE that's too one-sided, and you end up either a player you can run straight at because he's too much of a passrusher (Gilberry) or a player you can rotate your pocket towards because he puts no pressure on your QB (Shaun Smith).

Smith and Gilberry are fine players in certain situations. But Dorsey is the only player on this team that can serve as a true 3-4 DE. So we have to play mix-and-match the rest of the time because TJ isn't getting there fast enough.

Take our defense, but replace the other DE position with Campbell or Dockett from Arizona and we're a true Top 10 defense.

There's not a poster on this board that would disagree that in the 4-3 we've had for years, a DE would be worth a Top 5, and a DT would be worth a Top 5.

But now we move to a scheme where we actually REDUCE the number of hands-in-the-dirt lineman we have lining up, and all of a sudden none of the positions are worth a Top 5 anymore.

Do you think Arizona's Dockett would warrant a Top 5 pick if we knew then what we know now?

It is clear from that game alone that Dockett's talents could have warranted a Top 5 pick.

Meanwhile, your argument has been... well.

The same sentence over and over again with zero backup:

The 2009 draft was a gigantic FAIL, and 3-4 DE isn't foundation.

It's important, but it damn sure isn't top 5 draft pick important. That draft was a giant piece of shit.

You're kind of dumb if you can't look at the draft and see that 3-4 DEs aren't top 5 picks.

The one piece of backup (over and over again) you've provided...

Before Tyson Jackson, who was the last top 5 3-4 DE? Nothing to back it up, LOL.

Are you going to point out all those 3-4 DEs that were taken top 5?

...I've responded to:

it's incredibly difficult to scout for. There are almost no defenses in college football that offer that position in a way that NFL teams use.

You'd either be selecting a DE with elite size or a DT with elite agility, and hope you can coach the guy up.

It's too much of a risk that teams prefer to take later in the draft. But that doesn't mean players can't be worth a Top 5 selection for that position. It's just a gamble if you do.

To which your responses were fallacious:

LOL, it was Arizona's awesome D that got them there!!!111one

Well, let's just say you've kind of shown your opinion on the draft to be pretty worthless.

And, again, repetitive.

No, that isn't why. It's because teams don't value that position that highly. 3-4 DE isn't a premium position.

Right or wrong, your claims that my opinion is worthless don't carry a lot of weight when one considers your performance in this thread.

[Direckshun]

You know what kind of 3-4 end is worth top 5 picks?

Suh
Bruce Smith
Reggie White

Guys that get sacks and have the skill set to also play the 5-technique.

3 down players that dominate the run and pass game.

Boiled down, NOT Tyson Jackson.

Disclaimer: I wasn't as pissed about the pick of Tyson Jackson as most. Due to the weakness of the class overall and the risk involved in all of the top guys.

You get it.

LOL

You do understand he just made the argument that a 3-4 DE can warrant a Top 5 pick, after you've spent half the thread arguing that this can't be true...

[Hootie]

Since 2000...

These are the best picks and "foundational" players in the top 5 of the NFL Draft.


Chris Samuels
LT
Justin Smith
Julius Peppers
Andre Johnson
Eli
Fitzy
Rivers
Mario Williams
Joe Thomas
Calvin Johnson
Matt Ryan


So you guys have too lofty of expectations...

A small % of top 5 picks turn into franchise players...

so expecting a Bruce Smith or Reggie White is flat out RIDICULOUS.

Basically, you should be preying for Richard Seymour.

If 1 of 3 of our top 5 picks turn into a franchise caliber player that would be about the right percentage for top 5 picks that turn out...

Jury is still out on Tyson...hopefully he'll end up having a Seymour type impact when it's all said and done.

[Hootie]

Justin Smith probably doesn't even deserve to be in that group...I was pretty generous on him and Joe Thomas.

[Hootie]

So basically 1 out the 5 top 5 picks turns out to be a pro bowl caliber player...

so expectations on this board, as usual, are ridiculous for drafted players...even ones drafted very highly.

[Brock]

Right or wrong, your claims that my opinion is worthless don't carry a lot of weight when one considers your performance in this thread.

That's neither comprehensive nor nuanced. It's you throwing darts at a board to try to a) justify a bad draft pick and b) explain why teams usually don't spend top 5 picks on that position. You're drowning, son.

[Direckshun]

That's neither comprehensive nor nuanced. It's you throwing darts at a board to try to a) justify a bad draft pick and b) explain why teams usually don't spend top 5 picks on that position. You're drowning, son.

You haven't rebutted anything I've argued on the importance of a 3-4 DE.

I'd keep making my case, but I kind of need something to respond to.

[Brock]

LOL

You do understand he just made the argument that a 3-4 DE can warrant a Top 5 pick, after you've spent half the thread arguing that this can't be true...


LOL

You just compared Tyson Jackson to Reggie White.

[Direckshun]

LOL

You just compared Tyson Jackson to Reggie White.

When?

[Brock]

You haven't rebutted anything I've argued on the importance of a 3-4 DE.

I'd keep making my case, but I kind of need something to respond to.

The importance of a 3-4 DE, obviously, based on history, is not reflected in the draft, you know, by real NFL GMs. I realize that Chiefs bloggers like you and Nick have your own perspective, but don't get butthurt when somebody points out that your out of phase with reality.

[Brock]

When?

In the post I quoted.

[Hootie]

and another reason why getting a good QB isn't as easy as it seems...

Since 2000...the best top 5 picks at QB were Eli Manning, Philip Rivers (one draft) and Matt Ryan (can he win on the road??)

I'd have to think the success rate on top picked QB's this decade was very, very low.

Take a guy #1 and 20% of the time he works out QB wise...or so it seemed last decade. Maybe even lower...

And Tyson Jackson is bad and all...but the Rams...yikes thank the lord they scored with Bradford (or so it seems)...

They were similar to us and they drafted Chris Long and Jason Smith.

[Hootie]

and it's so hard to land a good QB in the draft...most of the time (as pointed out) it's failure...

yet the one guy who looks to be a total stud (Sam Bradford) was hated by our drafturbating geniouses!!!!!!!!!

so...

yeah

[Hootie]

who you taking???

Chris Long/Jason Smith or Glenn Dorsey/Tyson Jackson?

lol

I'd say Bradford (value wise) >>>>>> Berry, though.

[Direckshun]

The importance of a 3-4 DE, obviously, based on history, is not reflected in the draft, you know, by real NFL GMs. I realize that Chiefs bloggers like you and Nick have your own perspective, but don't get butthurt when somebody points out that your out of phase with reality.

You still haven't rebutted anything I've said.

You're pointing to past history being an indicator that 3-4 DE isn't worthy of a Top 5, while agreeing with somebody in this thread that said that they are.

I just have no idea what you're arguing.

Give me something, man.

[Brock]

and it's so hard to land a good QB in the draft...most of the time (as pointed out) it's failure...

yet the one guy who looks to be a total stud (Sam Bradford) was hated by our drafturbating geniouses!!!!!!!!!

so...

yeah

And yet, according to Direckshun, 3-4 DE is so much tougher to scout than QB.

[Direckshun]

And yet, according to Direckshun, 3-4 DE is so much tougher to scout than QB.

For the second time... When?

[Hootie]

I'm pretty sure Direckshun is the same guy who gave our 2009 draft an A+...

he's a little out there

[Brock]

You still haven't rebutted anything I've said.

You're pointing to past history being an indicator that 3-4 DE isn't worthy of a Top 5, while agreeing with somebody in this thread that said that they are.

I just have no idea what you're arguing.

Give me something, man.

Because Reggie and Bruce are the norm when discussing 3-4 DEs. That's why they were drafted 20+ years ago.

[Brock]

For the second time... When?

The logic goes, according to you, that the reason so few 3-4 DEs are drafted top 5 is because they're tough to scout. ROFL

[Direckshun]

Because Reggie and Bruce are the norm when discussing 3-4 DEs. That's why they were drafted 20+ years ago.

You've lost me.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I'd rather have an opinion and be wrong than be a flip-flopper.Why? Shouldn't more data allow you to have a more-informed opinion?

[BossChief]

3-4 ends get drafted in the top 5 about as much as safeties.

...they have to be a generational talent, not something that comes around every year or two.

Safeties that are worth top five picks are ones that dominate the deep ball and are a dependable run defender...they also have to have the ability to play man coverage against almost anybody.

Basically, to be a top 5 pick playing a position that is not the most important you have to transcend your given position. You have to be a dominant prospect in almost all the areas you will be responsible for in the NFL and are expected to make an impact fairly soon...not much development should be expected of a player at an unimportant position because they are overdrafted because of rare, freakish ability.

Most DTs take 2-3 years to develop in the NFL...but Suh has stepped right in and made a difference from day one. He has rare physical gifts that allow players like him to step in and play well from the get go. He would have done similarly in a 3-4 because the responsibilities are similar.

Berry has done this as well (though he has made some big mistakes in the early part of the season, something he will surely work on and not repeat...I bet he plays against Gates much better in the second meeting and better each time thereafter) He has been a stout run defender and has basically taken away the long ball so far this year...think about how many times we were targeted in the deep ball last year and in years before that and then try to think about how many times we have had that problem this year...that is because teams are aware of him being back there. This also holds true with long runs. Think of how many big ones we gave up in the last few years and then think about how many we have surrendered this year...yeah, not too many. HUGE difference.

This is why I also think Moeaki would have been a top 15 pick at TE if he had stayed healthy in Iowa...he is very good in every area of a generally unimportant position. Those kind of guys are VERY VERY RARE.

Hope that helps, direckshun

[OnTheWarpath15]

apparently OLB, ILB and NT weren't needs after all...

You may be right, though it also could be too early to tell for sure.

I guess we'll find out for sure when we face a team like Tennessee, or say Pittsburgh or NYJ in the playoffs.

The only team we've faced with a consistent running game hit us for 6 yards a pop.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why? Shouldn't more data allow you to have a more-informed opinion?

Yeah, because it's not like we spent 4 months talking about these prospects.

[Brock]

You've lost me.

It's not as difficult as you might think.

[-King-]

You may be right, though it also could be too early to tell for sure.

I guess we'll find out for sure when we face a team like Tennessee, or say Pittsburgh or NYJ in the playoffs.

The only team we've faced with a consistent running game hit us for 6 yards a pop.

Um not really. I'm sure you're talking about Houston. We shut them down running. They had one long run by Ward that skewed the stats.

And 49ers, Jags, and Cleveland aren't consistent running teams?

[Saul Good]

You still haven't rebutted anything I've said.

You're pointing to past history being an indicator that 3-4 DE isn't worthy of a Top 5, while agreeing with somebody in this thread that said that they are.

I just have no idea what you're arguing.

Give me something, man.

He's acknowledged that the 2 best players in the history of that position were worth a top 5 pick in retrospect. Buying a winning powerball ticket is smart after the fact. That doesn't mean that playing the lottery is smart.

In retrospect, we might learn that Ryan Succop was a better player than Tyson Jackson. That doesn't mean that we should have drafted Succop at 3.

[ChiefsCountry]

So if all us should appolize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to appolize to us who were right about Sanchez?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Um not really. I'm sure you're talking about Houston. We shut them down running. They had one long run by Ward that skewed the stats.

And 49ers, Jags, and Cleveland aren't consistent running teams?

Funny how people always want to "erase" plays that happen against us, yet would never think of doing so to the Chiefs.

We gave up 6 yards a carry to the most balanced team we'll face all year.

No getting around it.

[-King-]

Funny how people always want to "erase" plays that happen against us, yet would never think of doing so to the Chiefs.

We gave up 6 yards a carry to the most balanced team we'll face all year.

No getting around it.

I'm not erasing it. I'm just saying that saying we were giving up 6 yards a pop is stretching it a bit.

[BigMeatballDave]

The butthurt in this thread is hilarious, the internet it is life.ROFL Dude, you're an ass. You throw a lot of shit out there and present it as fact, then when proven wrong you never man up and admit it.

[-King-]

So if all us should appolize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to appolize to us who were right about Sanchez?

How were you right? He hasn't proven shit so far other than he can manage not to fuck up games. In the same amount of games, he has damn near the same numbers as Cassel...am I supposed to be impressed by that?

[BigMeatballDave]

The Chiefs won this past weekend. Go away dude.ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm not erasing it. I'm just saying that saying we were giving up 6 yards a pop is stretching it a bit.

It's not stretching anything.

We gave up 6 yards per carry.

It's not debatable. It is fact.

Hell, take the Ward run out.

We still gave up 4.5 a carry.

Luckily, we won't face another team with a good running game and good passing game the rest of the year.

[-King-]

It's not stretching anything.

We gave up 6 yards per carry.

It's not debatable. It is fact.

Hell, take the Ward run out.

We still gave up 4.5 a carry.

Luckily, we won't face another team with a good running game and good passing game the rest of the year.

Ok :D

[OnTheWarpath15]

So if all us should appolize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to appolize to us who were right about Sanchez?

You don't understand.

The jury is still out on guys like him, while Dexter, Arenas and Moeaki are already excellent picks 6 games into their careers.

The double standard around here is comical.

[salame]

Claussen sucks mirite?

[Hootie]

You don't understand.

The jury is still out on guys like him, while Dexter, Arenas and Moeaki are already excellent picks 6 games into their careers.

The double standard around here is comical.

Even Hamas stopped crying...

when will you stop?

Time to get behind this team for christ sake.

[BossChief]

Yeah, because it's not like we spent 4 months talking about these prospects.I remember 4 months of most of us wanting "playmakers" and when we drafted a damn good one in the second round...the goalline moved to "we should have drafted for our needs"

I honestly dont remember having a single conversation about DMC prior to the draft and TB H I didnt know very much about him until the Ole Miss guy showed up after we drafted him and educated us on him.

I should dig up that thread, that guy made a lot of the guys on this board look completely clueless about the kid (myself included)...that guy changed the tone of the board on DMC and so far, he has been dead on.

Shit, I was about the only one that really wanted us to draft Cody and I think DMC was a better choice. Over Arenas on the other hand...Id rather have Cody, but that doesn't mean I have even half the pertinent information needed to make a fully educated decision on that matter. I also said right after the Arenas pick that there had to be something Romeo Crennel didnt like about him and that I trust his decision and eval of him muc much more than my own.

So if all us should apologize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to apologize to us who were right about Sanchez?

I have done so a few times already, but if it makes you feel better Ill do it again.

I was dead wrong about Sanchez and he would have been the unquestioned best pick out of the 2009 draft for us at 3. The next best pick would have been the guy I wanted ...Orakpo.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Even Hamas stopped crying...

when will you stop?

Time to get behind this team for christ sake.

I am behind the team, dipshit.

Doesn't mean I can't make a fucking point.

Don't like it, don't fucking read it.

[Hootie]

what's your point?

we can't say that...

so far

FOR ONCE

our rookies are bang right out of the box?

FINE DUDE...WE'LL WAIT AND SEE AND WAIT AND SEE SO YOU CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR DIPSHIT ANTICS ON DRAFT DAY...IT'S OK BUDDY...WANT A BELLY RUB AND A WARM GLASS OF MILK, TOO?

[Hootie]

and in all honesty...

as of right now

Sanchez and Cassel are a dead on wash.

[Hootie]

(and that might be friendly for Sanchez if anything)...

dude has top tier targets and a top tier running game and a good offensive line...

you can mix and match Cassel and Sanchez and not notice a damn difference...

[salame]

sanchez sucks too

[OnTheWarpath15]

what's your point?

we can't say that...

so far

FOR ONCE

our rookies are bang right out of the box?

FINE DUDE...WE'LL WAIT AND SEE AND WAIT AND SEE SO YOU CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR DIPSHIT ANTICS ON DRAFT DAY...IT'S OK BUDDY...WANT A BELLY RUB AND A WARM GLASS OF MILK, TOO?

*yawn*

Your act has grown tiresome.

You're like a 4 year old kid tugging aT Momma's pants.

MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM

LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.


For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with people saying that those three have played 6 good games. They have. I've said as much.

I have a problem with people declaring them outstanding picks after 6 games, while claiming that it's not fair to judge others after 20+.

If you're sober this evening, you'll understand this.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

So, you're saying the same thing everyone else said.

People bitched about the pick because he couldn't stay healthy in college, not because of a lack of talent.

But why let the facts get in the way?

This is a little revisionist. The same people that were griping about the injury, never really raved about how much talent he had.

They didn't say that he wasn't talented, but they didn't talk about how good of a talent he really was.

The reality is that he has far exceeded everyone's expectations. For where he was drafted, even if he plays 10 games a year, the pick was worth it.

[Hootie]

god forbid we're excited we have rookies who are contributing a lot to a team that appears as if it is in the upper tier in the NFL...

you either have or you don't in football...

the only way McCluster, Berry or Moeaki end up being bad picks is if they suffer a freak injury...only upside...

and other than Berry...Moeaki and McCluster don't even need upside...they are awesome as is...

[OnTheWarpath15]

and in all honesty...

as of right now

Sanchez and Cassel are a dead on wash.

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look retarded.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11

[OnTheWarpath15]

This is a little revisionist. The same people that were griping about the injury, never really raved about how much talent he had.

They didn't say that he wasn't talented, but they didn't talk about how good of a talent he really was.

The reality is that he has far exceeded everyone's expectations. For where he was drafted, even if he plays 10 games a year, the pick was worth it.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

Folks, someone's scraping the very bottom of the barrel here.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

*yawn*

Your act has grown tiresome.

You're like a 4 year old kid tugging aT Momma's pants.

MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM

LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.


For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with people saying that those three have played 6 good games. They have. I've said as much.

I have a problem with people declaring them outstanding picks after 6 games, while claiming that it's not fair to judge others after 20+.

If you're sober this evening, you'll understand this.


I understand your point. While I agree, I will point out that 'typically', players improve. They are typically hitting their stride at 3 to 4 years. That is when, historically, players.... (other than QB's)...have tended to hit their peak.

So, declaring a player a bust is typically premature until that window has closed. Declaring a guy an outstanding pick could be argued to be logical with the general assumption that players improve over their first few years, and don't typically regress.

Now, with that said, there are cases that players do take a step back. So, it is not foolproof. But, overall, it is a much biggers stretch to call someone a bust after a few games than an outstanding picks.

[Marcellus]

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look retarded.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11

I can honestly say I would MUCH rather have Sanchez right now and well, it stings a little bit.

[salame]

moeaki and mccluster have helped win more games than any rookie form last year has this year or last year

[LOCOChief]

It's not stretching anything.

We gave up 6 yards per carry.

It's not debatable. It is fact.

Hell, take the Ward run out.

We still gave up 4.5 a carry.

Luckily, we won't face another team with a good running game and good passing game the rest of the year.

Jeez you're an ass. "Luckily"??? You haven't got a clue what the hell you're talking about yet look at your post count. amazing

[OnTheWarpath15]

god forbid we're excited we have rookies who are contributing a lot to a team that appears as if it is in the upper tier in the NFL...

you either have or you don't in football...

the only way McCluster, Berry or Moeaki end up being bad picks is if they suffer a freak injury...only upside...

and other than Berry...Moeaki and McCluster don't even need upside...they are awesome as is...

You can have all the upside in the world, but you have to produce.

Dex is on pace for 550 yards from scrimmage.

That's OK for a rookie, (funny how people claimed he'd easily break 1000) but as an early 2nd round pick, that number HAS to improve in years 2, 3 and 4.

If he's a good pick as some claim, he'll have no problem improving as the games/years go on.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Jeez you're an ass. "Luckily"??? You haven't got a clue what the hell you're talking about yet look at your post count. amazing

Would you rather have the Jets or the Steelers on the schedule?

:spock:

[Marcellus]

You can have all the upside in the world, but you have to produce.

Dex is on pace for 550 yards from scrimmage.

That's OK for a rookie, (funny how people claimed he'd easily break 1000) but as an early 2nd round pick, that number HAS to improve in years 2, 3 and 4.

If he's a good pick as some claim, he'll have no problem improving as the games/years go on.

I see no reason to believe he wont improve.

His output in the offense is gradually climbing as well. I don't know what the end result will be but I am guessing well past 550.

[ChiefsCountry]

I can honestly say I would MUCH rather have Sanchez right now and well, it stings a little bit.

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look retarded.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11

Come on....

First, Cassel is ahead of that second year player. Second, Sanchez doesn't have 'unlimited' upside.

Now, Sanchez has proven me wrong already. Now, he hasn't proven to be a pro bowler yet, but he has been more of a leader than I thought he would be. I will probably eat crow for a while on Sanchez. I am prepared to do that. But, 'unlimited' upside?

Okay, now, for Cassel..... really, you think he has hit his ceiling? You mean, like Trent Green, Rich Gannon, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young, Matt Hasselbeck, and many others. These are just the ones that came to mind.

I don't know how much better Cassel will get. No one on this board does, because frankly, his level of play currently was considered impossible five weeks ago.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I can honestly say I would MUCH rather have Sanchez right now and well, it stings a little bit.

Shouldn't sting at all.

Who doesn't want what's best for the team?

I didn't care for either R2 pick, but if they can build off of what they've done thus far, and have solid careers, it won't "sting" me at all.

I do appreciate your honestly. Not enough of that around here.

[Marcellus]

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.

May be but I can't change who I am rooting for, the Chiefs, so I am going to root for who I have (CAssel) to improve and succeed. It sucks but it is what it is.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I see no reason to believe he wont improve.

His output in the offense is gradually climbing as well. I don't know what the end result will be but I am guessing well past 550.

It's all going to come down to health, IMO.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.

Doubt it. Chiefs would be looking at another 4-12 year. First, assuming the trade doesn't happen, then Vrabel isn't here. He is an instrumental leader and a second coach on the defense.

Secondly, right now, at THIS moment, Cassel is better than Sanchez, and it's not really close. Sanchez has more talent around him. Cassel has done more with less. The Jets line, WR's and even TE is better. The running backs are a push.

Now, this isn't to say that Sanchez won't be much better in a few years, but currently, Cassel is better.

[LOCOChief]

Would you rather have the Jets or the Steelers on the schedule?

:spock:

I'd rather have the Chiefs schedule, but I happen to like the team.

[Marcellus]

Shouldn't sting at all.

Who doesn't want what's best for the team?

I didn't care for either R2 pick, but if they can build off of what they've done thus far, and have solid careers, it won't "sting" me at all.

I do appreciate your honestly. Not enough of that around here.

It stings because I don't have a choice. We have Cassel and that's what I have to root for because I WANT him to succeed.

It won't sting a bit for me if Cassel improves and does his job when needed.

The difference is I think you can objectively look at it and realize Sanchez has more time and more likely upside.

[-King-]

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.

Again...I ask why?

Sanchez is better than Cassel.... but better =/= good. He hasn't shown shit in NY.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Come on....

First, Cassel is ahead of that second year player. Second, Sanchez doesn't have 'unlimited' upside.

Now, Sanchez has proven me wrong already. Now, he hasn't proven to be a pro bowler yet, but he has been more of a leader than I thought he would be. I will probably eat crow for a while on Sanchez. I am prepared to do that. But, 'unlimited' upside?

Okay, now, for Cassel..... really, you think he has hit his ceiling? You mean, like Trent Green, Rich Gannon, Terry Bradshaw, Steve Young, Matt Hasselbeck, and many others. These are just the ones that came to mind.

I don't know how much better Cassel will get. No one on this board does, because frankly, his level of play currently was considered impossible five weeks ago.

WTF are you talking about?

This exact scenario was discussed by several of us the minute Weis was hired.

We knew that to "fix the QB" Weis would mask his deficiencies by throwing a lot of underneath stuff, hoping for YAC. Hell, I even vaguely recall someone, maybe Hamas saying he'd probably throw for 175 a game and that people would praise him for it.

And sure as shit, 6 games in, he's thrown for an average of 174, and people are acting as if he's "improved" because he's cut his INT's in half - because Weis doesn't ask him to make difficult throws.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It stings because I don't have a choice. We have Cassel and that's what I have to root for because I WANT him to succeed.

It won't sting a bit for me if Cassel improves and does his job when needed.

The difference is I think you can objectively look at it and realize Sanchez has more time and more likely upside.

LMAO

Yeah, look back 5 or 6 posts.

Objectivity isn't the strong suit of some here.

[Marcellus]

WTF are you talking about?

This exact scenario was discussed by several of us the minute Weis was hired.

We knew that to "fix the QB" Weis would mask his deficiencies by throwing a lot of underneath stuff, hoping for YAC. Hell, I even vaguely recall someone, maybe Hamas saying he'd probably throw for 175 a game and that people would praise him for it.

And sure as shit, 6 games in, he's thrown for an average of 174, and people are acting as if he's "improved" because he's cut his INT's in half - because Weis doesn't ask him to make difficult throws.

I agree to a point except Brady has the same number of down field throws as Cassel and he is playing on a team with a much worse running game so he is throwing the ball more often. You can bet now Moss is gone the number of balls down field will not go up.

It's a 3 step quick throw offense.The offense is designed for what it is, and it fits what Cassel does.

And yes it was somewhat predicted before the season but that's no surprise, that's how this works.

The clutch plays are what needs to be improved on IMO, not the worrying about down field throws.

The clutch play is what separates the Brady's from the Cassel's.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd rather have the Chiefs schedule, but I happen to like the team.

ON the schedule.

As in PLAYING them instead of the cupcakes we've played.

Here we go again with the double standard.

If Oakland had our record, and played the same teams we played, we'd all be talking about how they haven't beaten anyone.

I'm happy as hell they are taking advantage of a weak schedule.

Doesn't mean I can't be concerned about how the team is going to do against good teams.

And as I said, luckily, we only have to face one or two more this year in the regular season - hopefully they can continue to take advantage of it.

[stevieray]

Sanchezplanet.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

WTF are you talking about?

This exact scenario was discussed by several of us the minute Weis was hired.

We knew that to "fix the QB" Weis would mask his deficiencies by throwing a lot of underneath stuff, hoping for YAC. Hell, I even vaguely recall someone, maybe Hamas saying he'd probably throw for 175 a game and that people would praise him for it.

And sure as shit, 6 games in, he's thrown for an average of 174, and people are acting as if he's "improved" because he's cut his INT's in half - because Weis doesn't ask him to make difficult throws.

Sacks down, Int's down, top passer rating over the last 4 weeks. Yup..... CP nailed it.

Weis always throws underneath stuff. That is his offense. Same offense that Brady excelled in. The same offense that masked a decent, but not spectacular offensive line in NE. Same offense that is masking our decent, but not spectacular offensive line.

[Marcellus]

Sacks down, Int's down, top passer rating over the last 4 weeks. Yup..... CP nailed it.

Weis always throws underneath stuff. That is his offense. Same offense that Brady excelled in. The same offense that masked a decent, but not spectacular offensive line in NE. Same offense that is masking our decent, but not spectacular offensive line.

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.

[BossChief]

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look retarded.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11Sanchez' upside is not unlimited...lets not get out of hand here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree to a point except Brady has the same number of down field throws as Cassel and he is playing on a team with a much worse running game so he is throwing the ball more often. You can bet now Moss is gone the number of balls down field will not go up.

It's a 3 step quick throw offense.The offense is designed for what it is, and it fits what Cassel does.

And yes it was somewhat predicted before the season but that's no surprise, that's how this works.

The clutch plays are what needs to be improved on IMO, not the worrying about down field throws.

The clutch play is what separates the Brady's from the Cassel's.

You keep bringing up that Brady stat like it matters.

Brady has proven he can throw the ball downfield accurately. Teams have to account for it.

Cassel, not so much.

And regarding the offense, I'm shocked that Cleveland has been the only team that really loaded up the box and tried to make Cassel beat them.

Interesting that they are the only team to hold us under 4 yards a carry in a game, (3.6) and that we didn't score an offensive TD.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.

Don't tell CP that, Weis is clearly masking Cassel's weaknesses. He and Haley would MUCH rather throw downfield but that stupid Pioli is making them work with Cassel.

I am sure that in New Englad, Pioli made Bill Belichick work with Brady and they were forced to mask his weak arm as well.

Now, what with his Super Bowls, they are trapped and can't wait til he retires so that they can get someone with a strong arm so that they don't have to keep doing all this underneath stuff.

[ChiefsCountry]

He hasn't shown shit in NY.

Yeah winning two playoff games on the road isn't shit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.

Why are you acting as if this is some great revelation?

Like I said, some of us have said this since the day Weis was hired.

How exactly does it mean Cassel has improved?

Sound to me like you and SCF are admitting that anyone could do what Cassel is doing in this system.

(which is true, IMO)

[Marcellus]

You keep bringing up that Brady stat like it matters.

Brady has proven he can throw the ball downfield accurately. Teams have to account for it.

Cassel, not so much.

And regarding the offense, I'm shocked that Cleveland has been the only team that really loaded up the box and tried to make Cassel beat them.

Interesting that they are the only team to hold us under 4 yards a carry in a game, (3.6) and that we didn't score an offensive TD.

When the argument is how we are running our passing offense and it can't work, it's a valid point.

Also I don't agree on Cleveland being the only team to stack the box.

Watching the game Sunday from the upper deck you could see a lot of 1 safety at the line 1 in the middle playing close with single coverage on the outside that needs to be taken advantage of. I don't think we tried once.

[Marcellus]

Why are you acting as if this is some great revelation?

Like I said, some of us have said this since the day Weis was hired.

How exactly does it mean Cassel has improved?

Sound to me like you and SCF are admitting that anyone could do what Cassel is doing in this system.

(which is true, IMO)

I am saying nobody is bashing NE for running the same type of offense.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I am saying nobody is bashing NE for running the same type of offense.

Why would they?

They aren't running it because the QB is limited.

He's proven he can throw the ball downfield accurately when necessary - as well as make the clutch throw when necessary.

[-King-]

Yeah winning two playoff games on the road isn't shit.

He had 1 good game in the playoffs. WOW. 1 special game his entire rookie year. Sorry, that's not shit.

Hell, if the Colts and the Bengals hadn't laid down and pulled their QBs from the games, we wouldn't even be talking about Sanchez in the playoffs. If you call Herm making the playoffs in 07 "backing in" then what do you call what the Jets did?

[BossChief]

He had 1 good game in the playoffs. WOW. 1 special game his entire rookie year. Sorry, that's not shit.

Hell, if the Colts and the Bengals hadn't laid down and pulled their QBs from the games, we wouldn't even be talking about Sanchez in the playoffs. If you call Herm making the playoffs in 07 "backing in" then what do you call what the Jets did?
If Sanchez did that for the Chiefs, you would LOVE him.

[-King-]

If Sanchez did that for the Chiefs, you would LOVE him.

Did what? Back into the playoffs? I didn't love Huard, so why would that make me love Sanchez?

[OnTheWarpath15]

If Sanchez did that for the Chiefs, you would LOVE him.

You're wasting your time.

[chiefzilla1501]

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.

I can't believe we're actually going down this path.

[TheGuardian]

OMG Sanchez didn't WIN two playoff games he was there for the fucking ride. Give me a fucking break.

[BossChief]

I looked up the splits and Brady to this point has thrown the exact same number of completions past 11 yards as Cassel.

It's the offense.WRONG AGAIN

Cassel has actually completed 1 more pass over 11 yards than Brady.

haha got ya.

Passes 11 yards and over:
Cassel 22/53
Brady 21/50

While we are at it...

QB rating:
Cassel 91.5
Tom Brady 96

YPA
Cassel 6.82
Brady 6.88

comp %
Cassel 59.5 (has been much better over the last few games 63% over the last 4 games)
Brady 66.2

w/l
Cassel 4-2
Brady 5-1

td/int
Cassel 9-3
Brady 11-4

sacks
Cassel 5
Brady 12


Those are some pretty promising coincidences IMO...much closer than I thought they would be.
Did what? Back into the playoffs? I didn't love Huard, so why would that make me love Sanchez?
Not back into the playoffs, we all know and acknowledge that is the case... the way his play improved as the stage got bigger is what Im talking about.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

OMG Sanchez didn't WIN two playoff games he was there for the ****ing ride. Give me a ****ing break.

That's not fair. I am not his biggest fan... and he clearly benefits from the talent around him. However, bad QB play cannot be masked as easily as CP thinks. QB's have to be able to make throws. Even when the team is run first, they have to convert key third downs and at least keep the defense honest.

Sanchez didn't 'carry' the team to the playoffs, but he didn't wet the bed in the playoffs either.

So, he wasn't just along for the ride.

[RealSNR]

Did what? Back into the playoffs? I didn't love Huard, so why would that make me love Sanchez?Trent Green backed us into the playoffs, not Huard. He also played like shit after his concussion.

Huard was at least game managing and making the throws when he had the time. Also, we rarely ever saw the fetal position in Huard's first year playing for the Chiefs. The way the team was clicking that year after Green was out, I'll bet Huard would have won at least ONE more game for this team. A 10-6 record would have resulted in not "backing in".

I also think we would have had a better shot at the Colts if we started Huard instead of Green in the playoffs. Then again, we also would have had a better chance if somebody shot Mike Solari in the face before the game. Such is life.

[keg in kc]

Chiefs would be talked about as this decade's dyntasy right now if that was the case.No they wouldn't. They wouldn't have gone to the AFC championship last year. They would have finished 4-12 and be in exactly the same situation they're in right now.

This is not a value judgement on either quarterback. It's not a statement that Sanchez is good or bad. It's not a statement that Cassel is better or worse than Sanchez. It's simply a statement that the 2009 Jets as a team were far and away better than the 2009 Chiefs. We did not have their defense. We did not have their running game. We would not have made the playoffs. Sanchez would not have had the opportunity to have the three great halves he had in the playoffs. Sanchez would not have had the "rookie playoff wins". In all likelihood, he would have started 2010 as a quarterback who had never at any point in 2009 looked like he should be starting in the NFL, because his stats for the season would have ended with week 17.

If we transplant the entire Jets roster here last year, then maybe we're talked about as "this decade's dynasty". It's easy to romanticize, but we were a horrendous team last year, and Sanchez would not have changed that.

Does that mean I don't wish we had him instead of Cassel? No. It just means I try to keep some loose grasp on reality. In reality, Sanchez would probably have had all the same questions entering 2010 as Cassel did, and my guess is we'd be talking about the exact same things right now, about how Weis is limiting the playbook to help him, about how our top-rated rushing attack is just in place to protect the quarterback, and about how we'd be better if we'd gotten quarterback x, y or z instead.

Hell, in some ways, maybe the Chiefs of 2010 are the Jets of 2009. It sure looks like the same plan they used to get to the AFC championship last year. Running game and defense.

[-King-]

Not back into the playoffs, we all know and acknowledge that is the case... the way his play improved as the stage got bigger is what Im talking about.

He had 1 good game against Indy. I mean WTF? You guys are acting like he was good throughout the playoffs. He had one good game.

[teedubya]

Can we PLEASE not say Breaks Down and Moeaki in the same thread title, please??

[BossChief]

Can we PLEASE not say Breaks Down and Moeaki in the same thread title, please??

ROFL

I agree.

[Chiefs=Champions]

LMAO The Irony in this thread is amazing. A bunch of you calling out the Drafturbators for their wrong predictions then dissmissing ur own...

ROFL

[-King-]

LMAO The Irony in this thread is amazing. A bunch of you calling out the Drafturbators for their wrong predictions then dissmissing ur own...

ROFL

Who?

[Chiefs=Champions]

Who?

Im not one for this pitty bullshit. Go back and look for ur self??

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

So if all us should appolize for Moekai, when all of you dumbasses going to appolize to us who were right about Sanchez?

I'm sorry I liked Sanchez but got over it when I realized he wasn't an option. I'm sorry I laughed at his rookie season production because I knew it was causing butthurt. I'm sorry you took Everette Brown number 6 overall in the CP mock.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Except one is 22 with unlimited upside, and one is 28, and has likely reached his ceiling.

I love it when people compare the two - it makes them look retarded.

CASSEL'S RIGHT ON PAR WITH THAT 2ND YEAR PLAYER11!!!11

FWIW Sanchez turns 24 in two weeks..:D

[-King-]

I'm sorry I liked Sanchez but got over it when I realized he wasn't an option. I'm sorry I laughed at his rookie season production because I knew it was causing butthurt. I'm sorry you took Everette Brown number 6 overall in the CP mock.

ROFL