Ten Things About Today's Game

[gblowfish]

Ten Things About Today's Game

10. Somebody needs to slap Katie Horner around -in a way she wouldn't enjoy, I mean. What happened to sunny and 63 degrees today? We had a little sun, but apparently she forgot to mention the howling 30 to 40 MPH winds. It may not have been quite as bad on the sunny side of the field behind the Buffalo bench. On the Chiefs side, it was downright chilly. And the wind was playing havoc with the kicking game. Colquitt had several squirelly punts. Luckily, Mr. Irrelevant got a chance to redeem himself today, where Lindell did not. I was glad Succop got his second chance and made it count, or he would have been masquerading as "the kicker who shall remain nameless" for Halloween. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

9. Since it's Halloween night, I had to rush home and get the house ready for the little trick or treaters. I'm in the bat cave writing this while the lovely Mrs. Blowfish is upstairs handing out fist fulls of Kit Kat Bars to the little neighborhood hoodlems. I have not read through the CP board, and I'm sure there will have been mucho discussion about many of the things I'm going to point out, but maybe without that filter you can let me know if you feel the way I do. Arrowhead had a few more empty seats today, not nearly as loud as previous weeks. Sam Mellinger wrote about that today here:

http://mellinger.kansascity.com/


8. First of all, why in the HELL are the Chiefs killing their own drives? There must have been five or six times where Charles and Jones were gashing the ball right up the field. Then Cassel would throw, mis-fire, put it into 2nd and long, then 3rd and 5 or 6, then incomplete on third down. WHY STOP RUNNING??? It's like Weis didn't figure that out until the overtime period. Charles ended up with 177 yards today -that's eight yards per carry friends-, Jones had 77 yards, and no turnovers. This game should have never, ever, EVER been this close. And the reason it was, was because the offense stalled its own drives by abandoning the run for no good reason, and for lapses on defense and in coaching.

7. Two unsung heroes on offense today: Moeaki and Asamoah. Let's start with #81. Moeaki has impressed me very much with his blocking ability. The Chiefs run left a bunch, especially with Moeaki on that side, so the line is Waters, Fat Albert and Moeaki. They are destroying people when we run. He also had some clutch catches in the OT, and you wonder why it took so long to find him. The guy simply catches everything that is thrown to him. If, and a big if, he stays healthy, he could be the Mack Lee Hill winner this year out of an incredibly talent crop of rookies. He's just been excellent.

6. Asamoah started his first NFL game today for Lilja. He did a fine job. Cassel was sacked three times today. At least two of those were his own fault for indecision with the football. Since the Chiefs only had given up five sacks all year before today, three was a lot, but you can't blame it on Asamoah. He helped the team rush for over 250 yards. Big props, because our O-line has some depth this year, and guys are stepping up and not embarrassing themselves when they get a chance to play.

5. I thought the Chiefs won today despite Coach Haley, who went full retard in the first half. You never, ever, EVER pass up point opportunities, even against a winless team, at home, and especially in less than ideal weather conditions. Haley passed on a mid-30's range field goal in the first half, going on 4th and 3, for absolutely NO REASON. This was just rookie head coach stupidity. Luckily, it did not cost us a win today, but it very well could have. The Chiefs played a first half filled with blown opportunities, then failed to make any meaningful adjustments in the second half. We lucked out that Lindell missed his OT field goal opportunity. That guy is a good kicker, and the wind and distance, and a bit of a tip at the line of scrimmage, was just enough to foul up the attempt. Hopefully Coach Haley will learn something from having to squirm through an entire second half, plus a full overtime, thinking about passing up that one little field goal that could have made all the difference in second half game strategy today.

4. I think we missed McCluster today, although Charles was used a bit like McCluster at times with swing passes. I saw Dexter on the sidelines today in his warmups. He looks like he could play for a high school team. He's a little dude. Hard to believe he's endured the kind of NFL hits he's taken so far this year. It will be nice to have him back vs. Oakland next week. We need his versatility. He seemed to be moving around on the sidelines OK.

3. DJ was killing me today. He dropped one sure pick six in the first quarter, and dropped another sure pick in the fourth quarter that would have prevented the game tying drive. You HAVE to make those plays. Seemed like every fumble or tipped pass or pick-able ball went Buffalo's way this game. Except for the pass that hit Berry right between the 2 and the 9. Even with that, he almost lost it, and fell down when he caught the ball. That was a big pick. Berry is playing better as each week has gone by. He lead the defense with ten tackles today. He's excellent on run support. He still has some coverage issues, but I think he's smart enough to overcome that eventually. I believe he could be another Deron Cherry.

2. I'm going to play Mr. Pessimistic Chiefs fan here for just a minute. I don't believe the Chiefs have beaten a team with a winning record. It was a goal line stand to survive San Diego, a first down made by the nose hair of the football to ice the game in Cleveland, and today we let a winless team take us to the final three seconds of OT before eeking out a home win. Well, better lucky than good, I suppose. But the win today does bode well for the long run, as now there's a bit of a cushion going on the road vs. Oakland and Denver. If KC can can gain a split, we'll still be in pretty decent shape in the AFC West. Makes me wish the defense could have held onto that ten point lead with seven minutes left in Houston. How huge would have been to be 6-1 right now? I'll take 5-2. Game pics from KC Star website are here:

http://tinyurl.com/2bol6cp

1. Today was Military Appreciation Day at Arrowhead. Everybody got a little American Flag upon entering the stadium. At halftime they swore a bunch of kids into the Marine Corps, and showed the cameo pictures of dozens of service men and women from Kansas and Missouri who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I always get a lump in my throat when we have a military fly over, today it was a big tanker jet. Nothing better than the Arrowhead crowd chanting U-S-A for all the guys in uniform on the field today. It always makes me thankful to have those guy protecting our freedom so we can enjoy our way of life, including our Chiefs games.

[CupidStunt]

Far as point 2 goes, they're not as good as their record; HOWEVER, 9, 10 or 11 wins would be HUGE progress for a 4-win, rebuilding team, no matter who they come against. The hope is that they can then build on that with another good offseason filling more holes.

The other thing I'd say is that they're not 5-0 against bad teams while getting blown out by Indy/Houston; they were right in those games and outplayed Houston. They SHOULD be 6-1 with a couple solid wins (SD, @HOU).

I would be way, way less positive if they had been wrecked by those 2 AFC South teams. The losses were actually supportive of KC's progress as a team.

[Wyndex]

as always Mr. Blowfish

[Mr. Laz]

Berry is playing better as each week has gone by.
not really, in the passing game he is pretty much 'ass'

in the running game, he is much better but still tends to hit rather than tackle.

He's still a rookie and it shows, hopefully with this experience he will be a stud for years to come.


fyi - i think we should start McGraw next to him ... having too rookie safeties is just too much dumbass to have in our secondary.

JMO

[DaKCMan AP]

8. First of all, why in the HELL are the Chiefs killing their own drives? There must have been five or six times where Charles and Jones were gashing the ball right up the field. Then Cassel would throw, mis-fire, put it into 2nd and long, then 3rd and 5 or 6, then incomplete on third down. WHY STOP RUNNING??? It's like Weis didn't figure that out until the overtime period. Charles ended up with 177 yards today -that's eight yards per carry friends-, Jones had 77 yards, and no turnovers. This game should have never, ever, EVER been this close. And the reason it was, was because the offense stalled its own drives by abandoning the run for no good reason, and for lapses on defense and in coaching.


The Tampa Chiefs crew was yelling "RUN THE BALL!" all afternoon at the sports bar. We would get a drive going running the ball, then attempt a 1st down pass, and then the drive was over. Very frustrating!

Only thing more frustrating were the couple of times we were gashing them with the run, and then would throw the ball on 3rd & 1 only to punt.

[DaKCMan AP]

fyi - i think we should start McGraw next to him ... having too rookie safeties is just too much dumbass to have in our secondary.

JMO

Disagree. They need time on the field together to both grow and learn playing next to each other. I'm willing to live with the growing pains.

[Mr. Laz]

Disagree. They need time on the field together to both grow and learn playing next to each other. I'm willing to live with the growing pains.
you certainly make a point, but i think Berry learns more from having success playing with McGraw then playing like a Blink Squirrel trying to find his nuts with Lewis' help.

[DaFace]

Thanks, George. I always appreciate your takes. Disagree on the 4th down thing, but I'm a stats geek. I know it's a somewhat radical approach and hasn't really been "tested" in the NFL.

[-King-]

not really, in the passing game he is pretty much 'ass'

in the running game, he is much better but still tends to hit rather than tackle.

He's still a rookie and it shows, hopefully with this experience he will be a stud for years to come.


fyi - i think we should start McGraw next to him ... having too rookie safeties is just too much dumbass to have in our secondary.

JMO

Yeah....




No.

[LaChapelle]

They need to find someone to rotate with Arenas on returns until Dex returns
He has got to be one tired motherfucker

[Micjones]

Berry's progressing slowly in pass coverage. He's been a big reason why this team has been pretty stout against the run.

[KCUnited]

ESPN is crediting Vrabel with 1 more tackle than Berry, FWIW.

I agree on the kick.

[KCSupersized]

Nice read Mr. Blowfish.

[gblowfish]

They need to find someone to rotate with Arenas on returns until Dex returns
He has got to be one tired mother****er

He got lit up major on one punt. He should have fair caught the ball. He hasn't fumbled, though, and that's been very important for a rookie. Ball security on punt returns is crucial.

[Deberg_1990]

not really, in the passing game he is pretty much 'ass'

in the running game, he is much better but still tends to hit rather than tackle.

He's still a rookie and it shows, hopefully with this experience he will be a stud for years to come.


fyi - i think we should start McGraw next to him ... having too rookie safeties is just too much dumbass to have in our secondary.

JMO

Dude relax....we only gave up 10 points today. Good grief.

[DaKCMan AP]

They need to find someone to rotate with Arenas on returns until Dex returns
He has got to be one tired motherfucker

He returned kicks & was a starting CB in college.

[Deberg_1990]

He got lit up major on one punt. He should have fair caught the ball. He hasn't fumbled, though, and that's been very important for a rookie. Ball security on punt returns is crucial.

Yea, his ball secruity has been excellent. He always looks like hes just on the cusp of breaking one, but never does.

[Coogs]

One thing stood out to me big time today. We left 21 points on the field in the first 8-10 minutes of the game, and still managed to win. That would have never happened in the past few years.

A recap of the 21 points.

It would have been a tough catch, but Bowe had a TD catch within his grasp on the first drive.

DJ followd that up with the easy walk into the endzone drop of again a tough catch, but one that could have been made.

Following drive, Cassel misses a wide open Charles down the right hash marks.

Then throw in on top of that the bypassing of the FG in the early 2nd quarter, and by all rights we could have/should have been up by 24-0 and game would have been over.

To win inspite of those miscues... outstanding! :toast:

[gblowfish]

Buffalo was very fortunate. Every loose ball, every reviewed call seemed to go their way today. Their fans are going through the kind of crap we went through last year.

Sucks to be them :)

[Shogun]

Ive said it once, but I reallllllly want to see Berry Return a punt, just once. Even though hes not the very fastest, it seems both times hes gotten the ball, he just wrecks people left and right and has fast footwork.

[Mr. Laz]

Dude relax....we only gave up 10 points today. Good grief.
which has exactly NOTHING to do with it, douch dick.


so take your relax,stick up your ass and die from internal bleeding.

[Bwana]

As always...GREAT. Rep

[keg in kc]

Buffalo was very fortunate. Every loose ball, every reviewed call seemed to go their way today. Their fans are going through the kind of crap we went through last year.I don't think it was ever that bad here, not even with herm.

And they have Chan Gailey as HC.

Ouch.

[Deberg_1990]

8. First of all, why in the HELL are the Chiefs killing their own drives? There must have been five or six times where Charles and Jones were gashing the ball right up the field. Then Cassel would throw, mis-fire, put it into 2nd and long, then 3rd and 5 or 6, then incomplete on third down. WHY STOP RUNNING??? It's like Weis didn't figure that out until the overtime period. Charles ended up with 177 yards today -that's eight yards per carry friends-, Jones had 77 yards, and no turnovers. This game should have never, ever, EVER been this close. And the reason it was, was because the offense stalled its own drives by abandoning the run for no good reason, and for lapses on defense and in coaching.



The Chiefs cant run on every single down. NO team can do that.

Im not gonna dump on Cassel too much because he did have a nice game winning drive at the end.....But the guy is waaay too inconsistant on 3rd downs and it absolutely kills nice drives. Heck, Fitzpatrick was better on 3rd downs today i would guess...

[gblowfish]

The Chiefs cant run on every single down. NO team can do that.

Im not gonna dump on Cassel too much because he did have a nice game winning drive at the end.....But the guy is waaay too inconsistant on 3rd downs and it absolutely kills nice drives. Heck, Fitzpatrick was better on 3rd downs today i would guess...

My good pal Mr. Doggity went to the game with me today. He still supports Cassel. I think Cassel is somewhere in the caliber of Bono/Grbac. He thinks he's more like Huard or Krieg.

Remember last week the two TD catches by Bowe? On the stat sheet, Cassel gets two TD passes, but both TD's were all Bowe. The first one was under thrown by five yards. Bowe had to wait for the ball, adjust to it, then beat two guys trying to tackle him. A good pass and he waltzes into the end zone untouched. On the second TD, it was high and way outside. Bowe manages to go up, get the ball, and drag his toes. Again, a TD, and all Bowe. Accuracy is Cassel's biggest issue. He just isn't accurate.

[chiefzilla1501]

I get that we have to pass every once in a while.

What kills me is how many freaking times we pass on a running down. Stop getting cute--when it's 3rd or 4th and short, run the damn ball. Even worse that on many of those plays, we lined up in the shotgun.

[DaKCMan AP]

I get that we have to pass every once in a while.

What kills me is how many freaking times we pass on a running down. Stop getting cute--when it's 3rd or 4th and short, run the damn ball. Even worse that on many of those plays, we lined up in the shotgun.

That was another thing. Until the final drive, when we wanted to pass we didn't use play action. More play action would greatly increase the effectiveness of our passing game.

[milkman]

I get that we have to pass every once in a while.

What kills me is how many freaking times we pass on a running down. Stop getting cute--when it's 3rd or 4th and short, run the damn ball. Even worse that on many of those plays, we lined up in the shotgun.

I disagree with the idea that you should run the ball on every third or fourth and short.

I do think, however, that lining up in a shotgun is not a good idea.

[SPchief]

Thanks, George. I always appreciate your takes. Disagree on the 4th down thing, but I'm a stats geek. I know it's a somewhat radical approach and hasn't really been "tested" in the NFL.

Albiet it is being tested right now and its working whether some people agree or not

[RINGLEADER]

Dude relax....we only gave up 10 points today. Good grief.

True but they had to have completed something near or north of half their third downs -- and a lot were third and long. That has to be tightened up to really move this defense up a notch. Other than that and some of the missed opportunities (the aforementioned DJ interceptions, the Vrabel almost-fumble recovery, etc.) they played well enough today.

My biggest problem was all the stupid trickery when we're averaging 10 yards a carry on the ground. Why empty the backfield on a 4th and 1 and throw it? Why not go for it on the first drive rather than punt? Almost going for it on 4th and 1 from deep in our territory there at the end almost proved fatal. Just some really bizarre play-calling at times.....

[noa]

7. Two unsung heroes on offense today: Moeaki and Asamoah.

Love what Pioli did with the team this year. Hate what he did to it last year.

[siberian khatru]

George, when Haley passed up the FG in the 2nd quarter, was the wind really bad? Was it as bad as it was in OT when it blew Succop's first attempt wide left?

[gblowfish]

George, when Haley passed up the FG in the 2nd quarter, was the wind really bad? Was it as bad as it was in OT when it blew Succop's first attempt wide left?

The wind was swirling the whole game. And what is weird is, sometimes the flags by the big scoreboard will be fairly still, but the streamers on the goalposts are waving like crazy. You could see the wind whipping the ref's zebra shirts all day.

The kick they passed up was pointing to the west end zone (under the big scoreboard). The winning kick was east, towards the little scoreboard. Also in OT, they picked defending the west goal. I think Succop wanted to kick to the east end zone. During halftime he was warming up kicking at the east goalposts.

[Stinger]

George, when Haley passed up the FG in the 2nd quarter, was the wind really bad? Was it as bad as it was in OT when it blew Succop's first attempt wide left?

Was pretty steady all day... I will say that there were probably more gusts in overtime than in regulation. That was the perspective from the upper bowl. Field level might have been different.

[Deberg_1990]

Chiefs were 4/15 26% on 3rd downs..

Bills were 11/23 47% on 3rd downs.

Thats why this game was so close.

[BigRedChief]

The Tampa Chiefs crew was yelling "RUN THE BALL!" all afternoon at the sports bar. We would get a drive going running the ball, then attempt a 1st down pass, and then the drive was over. Very frustrating!

Only thing more frustrating were the couple of times we were gashing them with the run, and then would throw the ball on 3rd & 1 only to punt.Did the media ever ask Haley why the quit running the ball?

[chiefzilla1501]

Chiefs were 4/15 26% on 3rd downs..

Bills were 11/23 47% on 3rd downs.

Thats why this game was so close.

Man, what a huge step back. We were doing awesome on third down efficiency against Jacksonville and Houston.

[Deberg_1990]

George,

What did you think of Chambers today? How did he look? Besides being invisible. : )

[Demonpenz]

The reason DJ drops alot of INT's is because he is a good linebacker with great speed. I can't fault him for dropping shit when many normal linebackers in the league wouldn't even be there.

[threebag]

I wish we could light someone up on a punt except jar the ball loose.

[Rain Man]

I get that we have to pass every once in a while.

What kills me is how many freaking times we pass on a running down. Stop getting cute--when it's 3rd or 4th and short, run the damn ball. Even worse that on many of those plays, we lined up in the shotgun.


Yeah, this. Especially when the game is on the line.

Late in the game, we had at least two drives where Charles would carry for 10 or 15 yards a couple of times, and then we'd pull him and put Jones in. Jones would then get 3 yards, carry again for 3 yards, and then we'd have to onvert a third down. Charles consistently gained 10 yards, so it seemed like when it was late in the game we should've just ridden the hot hand. We won, so it's all good, but it was frustrating to see the same pattern repeated more than once.

[Three7s]

George,

What did you think of Chambers today? How did he look? Besides being invisible. : )
Casper looked more obvious in the seats than Chambers......

[LaChapelle]

To prove to Pioli Cassel sucks
and that another QB is essential to success

[Buehler445]

Ten Things About Today's Game


8. First of all, why in the HELL are the Chiefs killing their own drives? There must have been five or six times where Charles and Jones were gashing the ball right up the field. Then Cassel would throw, mis-fire, put it into 2nd and long, then 3rd and 5 or 6, then incomplete on third down. WHY STOP RUNNING??? It's like Weis didn't figure that out until the overtime period. Charles ended up with 177 yards today -that's eight yards per carry friends-, Jones had 77 yards, and no turnovers. This game should have never, ever, EVER been this close. And the reason it was, was because the offense stalled its own drives by abandoning the run for no good reason, and for lapses on defense and in coaching.



2. I'm going to play Mr. Pessimistic Chiefs fan here for just a minute. I don't believe the Chiefs have beaten a team with a winning record. It was a goal line stand to survive San Diego, a first down made by the nose hair of the football to ice the game in Cleveland, and today we let a winless team take us to the final three seconds of OT before eeking out a home win. Well, better lucky than good, I suppose. But the win today does bode well for the long run, as now there's a bit of a cushion going on the road vs. Oakland and Denver. If KC can can gain a split, we'll still be in pretty decent shape in the AFC West. Makes me wish the defense could have held onto that ten point lead with seven minutes left in Houston. How huge would have been to be 6-1 right now? I'll take 5-2. Game pics from KC Star website are here:

http://tinyurl.com/2bol6cp

1. Today was Military Appreciation Day at Arrowhead. Everybody got a little American Flag upon entering the stadium. At halftime they swore a bunch of kids into the Marine Corps, and showed the cameo pictures of dozens of service men and women from Kansas and Missouri who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I always get a lump in my throat when we have a military fly over, today it was a big tanker jet. Nothing better than the Arrowhead crowd chanting U-S-A for all the guys in uniform on the field today. It always makes me thankful to have those guy protecting our freedom so we can enjoy our way of life, including our Chiefs games.

8 I agree with this wholeheartedly. Someone in the chat (I think it was Milkman or Dane) said they need to go PA on first down so they'd have options if it doesn't work (It seems like it rarely worked) and After the first few times Cassel sucked ass, they should have got the picture and they didn't. The only time Cassel was worth a shit was the drive in overtime, which I give him full credit for. He did a nice job of making plays when it counted. But fuck. he killed so goddamn many drives it is unreal. Balls.

2 I agree with this. I've told about everybody I talk Chiefs with that they're not there yet. They're winning, but they aren't good enough to make noise in the playoffs. This game affirmed that. The shit of it is that coaching used to be a strength. Today they (sans Romeo) took the retard pill. Goddamn it. We should have took the deathhammer to these motherfuckers and we laid an egg.

1 Thanks for sharing. This type of thing they don't show on TV. They think Favre and TO are more important. Big thank you to all men and women serving their country.

My Take Son of a bitch. We should have lost that game 3 times over. Defensively I don't think we had a bad game. Still hate the soft zone, but it worked. Special Teams seems stagnant. Arenas took one today and then got blown the fuck up. He should have called for a fair catch. Hopefully we can get that aspect of the game back to above average. Arenas is a good returner and hard to tackle but blocking is not there.

Offense...:cuss: we gash the shit out of them on the run and quit it. We give up points by going for it inside their 20. We continue to have Cassel fuck our drives in the face. Biff fieldgoals in OT. Jesus it was frustrating as a fan.

Someone in the chat said, "These teams refuse to win," That was very accurate. Very accurate. We should have lost at the end of regulation. Got a good stop in OT. Sucked complete ass in OT. Gave them the ball back, managed to make them miss a FG. Sucked more ass in OT. Gave them the ball back and they stupided themselves into a sack for a huge loss. Cassel comes in and finally gets his head out of his ass and is very very sharp on the last drive. Where the fuck is this asshat the rest of the game?

A win is a win and I will take it. But damn it was frustrating to watch.

[Reerun_KC]

8 I agree with this wholeheartedly. Someone in the chat (I think it was Milkman or Dane) said they need to go PA on first down so they'd have options if it doesn't work (It seems like it rarely worked) and After the first few times Cassel sucked ass, they should have got the picture and they didn't. The only time Cassel was worth a shit was the drive in overtime, which I give him full credit for. He did a nice job of making plays when it counted. But ****. he killed so goddamn many drives it is unreal. Balls.

2 I agree with this. I've told about everybody I talk Chiefs with that they're not there yet. They're winning, but they aren't good enough to make noise in the playoffs. This game affirmed that. The shit of it is that coaching used to be a strength. Today they (sans Romeo) took the retard pill. Goddamn it. We should have took the deathhammer to these mother****ers and we laid an egg.

1 Thanks for sharing. This type of thing they don't show on TV. They think Favre and TO are more important. Big thank you to all men and women serving their country.

My Take Son of a bitch. We should have lost that game 3 times over. Defensively I don't think we had a bad game. Still hate the soft zone, but it worked. Special Teams seems stagnant. Arenas took one today and then got blown the **** up. He should have called for a fair catch. Hopefully we can get that aspect of the game back to above average. Arenas is a good returner and hard to tackle but blocking is not there.

Offense...:cuss: we gash the shit out of them on the run and quit it. We give up points by going for it inside their 20. We continue to have Cassel **** our drives in the face. Biff fieldgoals in OT. Jesus it was frustrating as a fan.

Someone in the chat said, "These teams refuse to win," That was very accurate. Very accurate. We should have lost at the end of regulation. Got a good stop in OT. Sucked complete ass in OT. Gave them the ball back, managed to make them miss a FG. Sucked more ass in OT. Gave them the ball back and they stupided themselves into a sack for a huge loss. Cassel comes in and finally gets his head out of his ass and is very very sharp on the last drive. Where the **** is this asshat the rest of the game?

A win is a win and I will take it. But damn it was frustrating to watch.

this, lots and lots of this...

[Buehler445]

I disagree with the idea that you should run the ball on every third or fourth and short.

I do think, however, that lining up in a shotgun is not a good idea.

I don't know. I think if you're going to go for it on 4th down WITH THIS TEAM, you better be able to get it with the run. Cassel just isn't consistent enough. If you have Manning, sure, throw the ball. But Jesus. RUN THE BALL. Really, the only pass I'd like to see on 4th is getting the ball to McCluster or Charles out of the backfield.

3rd down, yeah, pass to get someone off guard. If the situation is right, go for a dagger.

[gblowfish]

George,

What did you think of Chambers today? How did he look? Besides being invisible. : )

He was dressed as a Chiefs Wide Receiver for Halloween.

[KcFaNiNJerZeY]

That 4th down stuff just kills me every single time Haily does it, but I can't argue the win! Great read to fish.

[milkman]

I don't know. I think if you're going to go for it on 4th down WITH THIS TEAM, you better be able to get it with the run. Cassel just isn't consistent enough. If you have Manning, sure, throw the ball. But Jesus. RUN THE BALL. Really, the only pass I'd like to see on 4th is getting the ball to McCluster or Charles out of the backfield.

3rd down, yeah, pass to get someone off guard. If the situation is right, go for a dagger.

Against the Texans, the chiefs failed to convert 3rd or 4th and short on 4 of 7 plays running the ball.

They converted 6 of 8 attempts passing the ball in those same situations.

I have no problem with the idea of passing on either down, but do it out of a play action, which worked well against the Texans.

[gblowfish]

There's a big difference between Houston's run defense and Buffalo.
Buffalo is one of the worst run stopping teams in the NFL. We should have run them out of the stadium by halftime.

[milkman]

There's a big difference between Houston's run defense and Buffalo.
Buffalo is one of the worst run stopping teams in the NFL. We should have run them out of the stadium by halftime.

I get that.

But there's also a difference between running the ball on first and 10 and 3rd and 1, and the Chiefs line is not built for straight power running, so even against the Bills, running in those situations is not a gimme.

[Coach]

Against the Texans, the chiefs failed to convert 3rd or 4th and short on 4 of 7 plays running the ball.

They converted 6 of 8 attempts passing the ball in those same situations.

I have no problem with the idea of passing on either down, but do it out of a play action, which worked well against the Texans.

I would like to do a playaction, bootleg which would give Dumbass Cassel an option to either throw it to the TE/FB running out in the flat, or Cassel doing his prancing dancing moves, just to be borderline short or barely getting the first down.

I think that odds has a better probability of succeeding than a run play right up behind the Guard's ass for the 14th time.

[Buehler445]

Against the Texans, the chiefs failed to convert 3rd or 4th and short on 4 of 7 plays running the ball.

They converted 6 of 8 attempts passing the ball in those same situations.

I have no problem with the idea of passing on either down, but do it out of a play action, which worked well against the Texans.

I get that.

But there's also a difference between running the ball on first and 10 and 3rd and 1, and the Chiefs line is not built for straight power running, so even against the Bills, running in those situations is not a gimme.

Very valid argument, and probably accurate, but it seems to me that on this team running is higher percentage. JMO.

By the by, it's nice to be talking about which weapons we should use, instead of "hey look. LJ ran off left guard. Neat."

[gblowfish]

They're better at power running this year than last year. They run over Waters, use Cox as a lead blocker, and have Battle or Jones who can make a 3rd and Short. Last year they had bupkus.

[milkman]

Again, I don't disagree with you George, they are better at power than they were last year.

But, once again, better than bad does not equal good.

I'd guess that we have about a 50% of winning those battles, but Buehler may be right in that our odds still might be better.

[gblowfish]

Yep, I agree.
They seem to go away from what's working, instead of forcing the opposition to stop what's working. That's my biggest beef. I also agree it's nice to debate what weapons are best to use in a game, versus the endless "why we lost a close game" threads like we had last year.

It's all good, my friend...

[L.A. Chieffan]

I agree with Las. Berry is garbage. We should probably cut our losses and get rid of him

[milkman]

I agree with Las. Berry is garbage. We should probably cut our losses and get rid of him

You mean Matt Lazzel, don't ya?

[chiefzilla1501]

Against the Texans, the chiefs failed to convert 3rd or 4th and short on 4 of 7 plays running the ball.

They converted 6 of 8 attempts passing the ball in those same situations.

I have no problem with the idea of passing on either down, but do it out of a play action, which worked well against the Texans.

I'm surprised they haven't used Battle more in these situations. I think he adds a dimension they never previously tried before and it's worked whenever we've used him. I also find it curious we don't sneak the ball more.

I agree that our line wasn't necessarily built for power running, but it seems like we try to get way too cute. If the Chiefs can be ultra successful up the middle when defenses are loading 8 to 9 in a box, I don't see why they couldn't be just as successful in short yardage situations.

[EyePod]

Far as point 2 goes, they're not as good as their record; HOWEVER, 9, 10 or 11 wins would be HUGE progress for a 4-win, rebuilding team, no matter who they come against. The hope is that they can then build on that with another good offseason filling more holes.

The other thing I'd say is that they're not 5-0 against bad teams while getting blown out by Indy/Houston; they were right in those games and outplayed Houston. They SHOULD be 6-1 with a couple solid wins (SD, @HOU).

I would be way, way less positive if they had been wrecked by those 2 AFC South teams. The losses were actually supportive of KC's progress as a team.

Buffalo outplayed us today and we won. Oakland outplayed Zona and lost. We outplayed Houston and lost. It happens all the time. We got the W, and come playoffs, no one will care how.

[EyePod]

Against the Texans, the chiefs failed to convert 3rd or 4th and short on 4 of 7 plays running the ball.

They converted 6 of 8 attempts passing the ball in those same situations.

I have no problem with the idea of passing on either down, but do it out of a play action, which worked well against the Texans.

Also, we don't need to throw the ball 30 yards on 3rd and 1. A simple 5 yard out, screen pass, or just a quick hitch would work just as well!

(Granted, JC was totally open and Cassel missed him. Also would like to point out that his throw to Bowe was a good one, but it was a solid defensive effort. Didn't get a good look as to when the guy started grabbing Bowe's arm though...).

[milkman]

I'm surprised they haven't used Battle more in these situations. I think he adds a dimension they never previously tried before and it's worked whenever we've used him. I also find it curious we don't sneak the ball more.

I agree that our line wasn't necessarily built for power running, but it seems like we try to get way too cute. If the Chiefs can be ultra successful up the middle when defenses are loading 8 to 9 in a box, I don't see why they couldn't be just as successful in short yardage situations.

In 3rd and short, these guys aren't simply in the box, they are lining up at the line.

It becomes a test of brute strength and sheer force.

[KC native]

Great takes gblow.

Anyone who still supports Castle can go blow a fucking goat. On just about every one of the 3rd and 4th and short plays there was an open receiver that Castle just flat out didn't see.

[TEX]

Far as point 2 goes, they're not as good as their record; HOWEVER, 9, 10 or 11 wins would be HUGE progress for a 4-win, rebuilding team, no matter who they come against. The hope is that they can then build on that with another good offseason filling more holes.

The other thing I'd say is that they're not 5-0 against bad teams while getting blown out by Indy/Houston; they were right in those games and outplayed Houston. They SHOULD be 6-1 with a couple solid wins (SD, @HOU).

I would be way, way less positive if they had been wrecked by those 2 AFC South teams. The losses were actually supportive of KC's progress as a team.

They are EXACTLY as good as thier record says they are.

[Frankie]

5. I thought the Chiefs won today despite Coach Haley, who went full retard in the first half. You never, ever, EVER pass up point opportunities, even against a winless team, at home, and especially in less than ideal weather conditions. Haley passed on a mid-30's range field goal in the first half, going on 4th and 3, for absolutely NO REASON. I really think the winds were his reason.


4. I think we missed McCluster today,.... It's funny, I made the same comment to my son while we were watching the game.


Also, three points, IMO, that you didn't address:

1- I think you should have given some love to Tamba Hali. The sacks and that pass batted down in the passing lane were something else.

2- I think the Bills are a much better team than their winless record. Don't forget they did the same to the possibly Super Bowl bound Ravens last week.

3- There seems to be a lot of Brett Farve in FitzWhatever, the Bills QB. He might actually be for real. In the past our D has often made another team's backup QB look like a pro-Bowler, but our D wasn't responsible for it today. I think the guy is a dangerous QB.

[Frankie]

In the 1st half, I saw Bowe drop an apparent TD pass. I got called on a quick errand and missed the replays. Was that a catchable ball? Whose bad was it, Bowe's or Cassel's?

[ChiefsrGood]

In the 1st half, I saw Bowe drop an apparent TD pass. I got called on a quick errand and missed the replays. Was that a catchable ball? Whose bad was it, Bowe's or Cassel's?

underthrown by cassel. bowe had a play on it but couldn't reel it in.

[Frankie]

Yeah, this. Especially when the game is on the line.

Late in the game, we had at least two drives where Charles would carry for 10 or 15 yards a couple of times, and then we'd pull him and put Jones in. Jones would then get 3 yards, carry again for 3 yards, and then we'd have to onvert a third down. Charles consistently gained 10 yards, so it seemed like when it was late in the game we should've just ridden the hot hand. We won, so it's all good, but it was frustrating to see the same pattern repeated more than once.

I think the psychology of it is that after 2 tries of the same thing people wise up and adjust.

[Frankie]

He was dressed as a Chiefs Wide Receiver for Halloween.

ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

My good pal Mr. Doggity went to the game with me today. He still supports Cassel. I think Cassel is somewhere in the caliber of Bono/Grbac. He thinks he's more like Huard or Krieg.

Jesus, that's insult to all of those quarterbacks, especially Krieg, who had like 200 TD passes if memory serves. Cassel is never going to be Grbac. Grbac had major fucking talent and could throw frozen ropes. His problem was being a jerk and a headcase in the clutch. Grbac NEVER looked as lost as Cassel looked against Buffalo.

Cassel is a shitty version of Jake Plummer. In fact, he plays almost exactly the same way - mobile, no downfield accuracy, shits his pants at the first sign of pressure and needs MAJOR talent around him to succeed.

[Hootie]

the only thing I like about Cassel is he keeps coming and never gives up...and truly wants to win/be good...

Whether or not he'll ever be good or successful I do not know...but I do know he'll at least go down swinging...

[Silock]

I do know he'll at least go down swinging...

Or, you know, holding onto the ball too long.

[HIChief]

[Cassel is a shitty version of Jake Plummer. In fact, he plays almost exactly the same way - mobile, no downfield accuracy, shits his pants at the first sign of pressure and needs MAJOR talent around him to succeed.[/QUOTE]

He must have had major shit stains on the final winning drive then.

[patteeu]

Yea, his ball secruity has been excellent. He always looks like hes just on the cusp of breaking one, but never does.

Yep, he hasn't broken one, but he almost always either gets past the first arm tackler or he stays on his feet and drags/leans for another few yards. He's surprisingly hard to bring down.

[patteeu]

The reason DJ drops alot of INT's is because he is a good linebacker with great speed. I can't fault him for dropping shit when many normal linebackers in the league wouldn't even be there.

Right on. And that second one where DJ was running away from the line of scrimmage when he got his hands on the ball would have been a tough catch because the ball was on him just after he turned his head back.

[patteeu]

In the 1st half, I saw Bowe drop an apparent TD pass. I got called on a quick errand and missed the replays. Was that a catchable ball? Whose bad was it, Bowe's or Cassel's?

It was the defender's good, IMO.

[patteeu]

Jesus, that's insult to all of those quarterbacks, especially Krieg, who had like 200 TD passes if memory serves. Cassel is never going to be Grbac. Grbac had major ****ing talent and could throw frozen ropes. His problem was being a jerk and a headcase in the clutch. Grbac NEVER looked as lost as Cassel looked against Buffalo.

Cassel is a shitty version of Jake Plummer. In fact, he plays almost exactly the same way - mobile, no downfield accuracy, shits his pants at the first sign of pressure and needs MAJOR talent around him to succeed.

Spoken like a guy who must have been too young to really pay attention to the Grbac-era Chiefs. Grbac had physical talent, but not looking lost was not one of his attributes. Cassel is 10x the QB that Grbac was when it comes to the mental aspects of the game.

I'm not even sure what makes you say that Cassel looked lost in this Buffalo game. Maybe you can gif him up and show me what you mean later in the week in your gif'ed up thread.

[gblowfish]

Grbac was king of the deer in the headlights look.
He lost a playoff game in Arrowhead vs. Denver, partly because he botched a two minute drill (final play was a lame pass somewhere in the same area code as Lake Dawson). He ran out of time waiting for plays to come in from the OC. He had no ability to think on his feet, he could only do what the OC told him to do, and if a play was late getting into the huddle, he was clueless. I see some of that in Cassel. He's robotic, doesn't have any Favre improv in him at all.

On the plus side, he has thrown more than 100 passes with no picks, and that's a good thing. Also, he's only been a starter for about a two years (counting New England) and he's still learning on the job. He does seem pretty studious on the sideline, and I agree that he usually goes down swinging when he does go down.

[Frankie]

Spoken like a guy who must have been too young to really pay attention to the Grbac-era Chiefs. Grbac had physical talent, but not looking lost was not one of his attributes. Cassel is 10x the QB that Grbac was when it comes to the mental aspects of the game.

I'm not even sure what makes you say that Cassel looked lost in this Buffalo game. Maybe you can gif him up and show me what you mean later in the week in your gif'ed up thread.

I totally agree with this post. All the hatred for Cassel I try to understand, but looking lost, I was scratching my head about.

[Chiefnj2]

Grbac was king of the deer in the headlights look.
He lost a playoff game in Arrowhead vs. Denver, partly because he botched a two minute drill (final play was a lame pass somewhere in the same area code as Lake Dawson). He ran out of time waiting for plays to come in from the OC. He had no ability to think on his feet, he could only do what the OC told him to do, and if a play was late getting into the huddle, he was clueless. I see some of that in Cassel. He's robotic, doesn't have any Favre improv in him at all.

On the plus side, he has thrown more than 100 passes with no picks, and that's a good thing. Also, he's only been a starter for about a two years (counting New England) and he's still learning on the job. He does seem pretty studious on the sideline, and I agree that he usually goes down swinging when he does go down.

I can't believe I'm going to say this but, in defense of Grbac in that playoff game, I distinctly remember one or two short passes where (I think it was Rathman?) could have gotten out of bounds, but for some bizarre reason tried for 2 more yards and was tackled in bound keeping the clock rolling. Grbac's final pass to Dawson was ugly though.

[Frankie]

On the plus side, he has thrown more than 100 passes with no picks, and that's a good thing.

But, boy did he really try to toss a pick yesterday! It was right into the hands of the defender. Cassel lucked out on that one.

[Dave Lane]

Thanks, George. I always appreciate your takes. Disagree on the 4th down thing, but I'm a stats geek. I know it's a somewhat radical approach and hasn't really been "tested" in the NFL.

It was the smart call. Didn't like the play they called for it but especially with the wind it wasn't a gimme FG.

[Frazod]

Yesterday's game was painful to watch. I've said before that I'll never bitch about a coach with balls, but at this point I can't tell if Haley's more like Custer or Wile E. Coyote. Time to get back on your meds, Todd. Jesus. And Weis.... well, I haven't made my contempt for this overrated turd a secret, and it continues to grow week by week. I think we could run 400 yards and this assclown will still call a pass play on a critical 3rd and short. Fuck. And Cassel? No need to go there at this point. And the secondary is still a work in progress, surrendering far too many first downs on 3rd and long.

I'm trying to look on this mess as simply getting caught looking ahead to Oakland next week. Really, I am. We lost one game (Houston) that we should have won, and now we've won a game that we abso-fucking-lutely should have lost, which I guess makes us even. A win is a win. A win is a win. A win is a win. A win is a win....

But the coaching needs to improve. Dramatically. Our worst enemies right now are prowling our own sideline and sitting in our own booth.

[gblowfish]

Here's what the Buffalo News is saying:

Bills Can't Escape the Jaws of Defeat
by Mark Gaughan - Buffalo News

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article237532.ece

KANSAS CITY -- The script was completely different from any other game the Buffalo Bills have played this season.

The ending -- well, you know the story.

The Bills were left to lament how they repeatedly let victory slip through their fingers after their 13-10 overtime loss to the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday.

"It hurts," Bills coach Chan Gailey said. "You can't explain it. It makes you sick in your gut. I feel bad for our guys, because they're trying, they're playing hard. We're just not getting it done. I've got to teach us to get over the hump."

"I'm kind of at a loss for words," receiver Stevie Johnson said. "It seemed like we put together a good game as a team. We had opportunities but we couldn't come out with a win. Here we go again."

"It seems like almost every week, it's like, man if we could have made just one play," said guard Eric Wood. "If we could have made this play or that play, we'd have won that game."

The Bills fell to 0-7 for the first time since 1984. It's the first time in their history they have lost back-to-back overtime games.

Last week's 37-34 loss at Baltimore was a big-play fiesta, with eight touchdowns scored. This one was about methodical offense, with just two touchdowns.

The Chiefs were the better team on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Kansas City outrushed Buffalo, 274-137, and outgained the Bills overall, 414-328. The Bills called 56 passes and 28 runs.

The Bills still could have won if any one of the following plays went differently:

* Bills quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick threw an interception at the Kansas City 27-yard line with 25 seconds left in regulation. The Bills needed only about 10 more yards to get in good position for a field goal.

* Fitzpatrick overthrew an open C.J. Spiller in the end zone with 8:11 left in overtime.

* Bills kicker Rian Lindell missed a 53-yard field-goal try with 7:19 left in overtime. Lindell had made the 53-yard try just moments before, but Kansas City had called timeout to stop the clock just before the ball was snapped.

The Bills' offense, which rolled up 514 yards last week in Baltimore, managed just 58 yards in the first half against the Chiefs. But the Bills found a rhythm in the third quarter, taking the second-half kickoff and holding the ball for 15 plays en route to a Lindell field goal that pulled them within 7-3.

"We adjusted at halftime," Fitzpatrick said. "We knew coming in they were a bend-but-don't-break type of defense, and they did a good job today in terms of that. It seemed the whole first half we were stuck in our end. They weren't going to allow us to get any big plays. On third down they played a lot more zone than man [to man]."

The Bills held the ball for 19:01 of the second 30 minutes.

"That was how we went into the ball game, understanding that we were going to have to dink and dunk our way down the field and treat 4-yard and 5-yard passes as run game because they're very physical tight end to tight end," Gailey said.

A 15-play, 83-yard march tied the game. Fitzpatrick hit 8 of 10 passes on the drive and capped it with a 4-yard scoring pass to Johnson on fourth and goal. It was a slant pass, and Johnson dove over the goal line just before he could be tackled.

"That's something we worked on probably one time throughout the week, but Coach [Gailey] called it," Johnson said. "He said, they'll play off, you'll come under and you'll have to bull rush in there. It was exactly how Coach said it. It was just execution."

The Bills had the ball back just 49 seconds later thanks to a good defensive stand (and questionable play-calling by the Chiefs). Fitzpatrick had the Bills at the Chiefs' 41 when his throw for Lee Evans sailed way over the receiver's head and was picked off by the Chiefs' Eric Berry. Fitzpatrick said it slipped.

"I catch the gun snap and pretty much as I catch it, throw it to Lee real quick," Fitzpatrick said. "It just squirted out."

Midway through overtime, Fitzpatrick moved the Bills from their own 10 to the Chiefs' 37. The Bills caught the Chiefs in a blitz with Spiller down the right sideline, but the pass sailed over his head.

"We got C.J. manned up with the linebacker on the outside and missed him in the end zone," Fitzpatrick said. "It was a good matchup. I let the ball go. I thought it was going to be perfect, and it just ended up being long."

"I don't know how many times in a row we've hit that in practice," Gailey said. "We didn't hit it today. It hurts."

The Bills called two more passes but only got to the 34, which put Lindell in a long-range position.

"We had a run called on one of them but we checked out of it because of the defense they gave us, which we've been doing and been fairly successful at," Gailey said of the two plays before the kick. "In hindsight, yeah, I wish we'd have run it a couple times there, but you make calls in games you wish you had back."

Kansas City's winning drive started with 1:13 left and went 53 yards to the Buffalo 16. Ryan Succop's 35-yard kick as time expired improved the Chiefs to 5-2.

"I thought we had it for sure," said linebacker Paul Posluszny. "I thought it was our game for sure. We fought hard. I felt we made the plays we needed to make at times. But we need to learn to win."

[Reerun_KC]

We dodged a shit ton of bullets yesterday...

[Buehler445]

He must have had major shit stains on the final winning drive then.

That's the shit with Cassel. Dude was a fucking worthless bum ALL FUCKING GAME and then put together a beautiful drive with his back to the wall. That drive is precisely what he needs to do every drive. Weis gave him ample opportunity to make plays in the game and he stalled drives. I don't understand how he can be so horrible all game and then put together a drive like that.
Posted via Mobile Device

[gblowfish]

That's the shit with Cassel. Dude was a ****ing worthless bum ALL ****ING GAME and then put together a beautiful drive with his back to the wall. That drive is precisely what he needs to do every drive. Weis gave him ample opportunity to make plays in the game and he stalled drives. I don't understand how he can be so horrible all game and then put together a drive like that.
Posted via Mobile Device

Give any NFL starting QB six or seven cracks at it, and eventually they'll all put together some kind of coherent drive.

[beer bacon]

In the 1st half, I saw Bowe drop an apparent TD pass. I got called on a quick errand and missed the replays. Was that a catchable ball? Whose bad was it, Bowe's or Cassel's?

It was a very catchable ball. After the game somebody said the defender hooked one of Bowe's arms, and it should have been a DPI. Anybody notice that?

[gblowfish]

No, I thought Bowe was open, but the pass was underthrown, Bowe had to adjust to the ball, DB hit Bowe about the same time the ball got there (maybe a tiny bit early but not enough for DPI) and pinned Bowe's arm so he couldn't grab the ball. It was a good defensive play. No TD because (as usual) Cassel couldn't hit a receiver in stride.

[JD10367]

In general, I'd say: don't sweat this game. The Bills have now gone on the road and played ridiculously tough against the Dolphins, Patriots, Ravens, and Chiefs (taking the last two to OT). Those teams are 6-1, 5-2, 5-2, and 4-3; taking out the Bills game, they're still a cumulative 16-8. The Bills may be 0-7 but could easily be 3-4 or 4-3.

Look on the bright side: your D held its own, your running game dominated, and even Cassel couldn't **** it up in the end (although he tried his best).

(EDIT: Fins game was in Buffalo. Still, they only lost 15-10.)

[patteeu]

It was a very catchable ball. After the game somebody said the defender hooked one of Bowe's arms, and it should have been a DPI. Anybody notice that?

Yes, the arm was hooked, but no, I don't think it should have been DPI (it was very close though). I think it was an outstanding play by the defender. The way I saw it, he effectively took one of Bowe's arms away just as the ball hit Bowe's hands. Maybe someone will produce a replay and we can double check it.

[patteeu]

No, I thought Bowe was open, but the pass was underthrown, Bowe had to adjust to the ball, DB hit Bowe about the same time the ball got there (maybe a tiny bit early but not enough for DPI) and pinned Bowe's arm so he couldn't grab the ball. It was a good defensive play. No TD because (as usual) Cassel couldn't hit a receiver in stride.

I'll agree that Cassel didn't throw the perfect pass to hit Bowe's outstretched arms in stride, but I think he was close enough on that play to call it a success on his part foiled by a really good defensive play.* It's not like Bowe had to stop to wait for it like his TD last week.


_______________
* (IMO, of course)

[The Franchise]

not really, in the passing game he is pretty much 'ass'

in the running game, he is much better but still tends to hit rather than tackle.

He's still a rookie and it shows, hopefully with this experience he will be a stud for years to come.


fyi - i think we should start McGraw next to him ... having too rookie safeties is just too much dumbass to have in our secondary.

JMO

Why would you take out Lewis? He's been playing really well so far.

[Rausch]

Do NOT want McGraw starting...

[sedated]

5. I thought the Chiefs won today despite Coach Haley, who went full retard in the first half. You never, ever, EVER pass up point opportunities, even against a winless team, at home, and especially in less than ideal weather conditions. Haley passed on a mid-30's range field goal in the first half, going on 4th and 3, for absolutely NO REASON.

If Haley would have kicked a FG in the first half, perhaps Succop would have been more used to aiming in that wind, and he wouldn't have missed his first attempt :shrug:

[gblowfish]

If Haley would have kicked a FG in the first half, perhaps Succop would have been more used to aiming in that wind, and he wouldn't have missed his first attempt :shrug:

Maybe.
If they take that three the game probably doesn't go to OT.

But if you try that kick in the 2nd quarter, it's kicking at the West End Zone.
The winning OT kick was in the East End Zone. Winds swirl different -usually its worse- on the east side, because the wind goes up a tunnel in the southeast corner of the playing surface.

Succop hit the game winner on the tougher end to kick. Kudos to him.

[Coogs]

Succop hit the game winner on the tougher end to kick. Kudos to him.

OK, if that was the tougher end to kick, when Buffalo won the toss for OT, why in the heck did we choose to go in that direction?

[gblowfish]

OK, if that was the tougher end to kick, when Buffalo won the toss for OT, why in the heck did we choose to go in that direction?

Well, I thought about that too. I think it's because the east end is where Succop was kicking all his warm up FGs during halftime. I think since that's the side he warmed up on, he may have wanted to kick that direction. Or, maybe the coaches didn't even think about it. Who knows? Plus, you can't tell when the wind is going to gust. The kick he missed got pushed like crazy. The winning kick went left too, but I don't think it went left as severely as the first kick. Just one of those things. Also, he was closer on the second kick than the first.

[Frankie]

If Haley would have kicked a FG in the first half, perhaps Succop would have been more used to aiming in that wind, and he wouldn't have missed his first attempt :shrug:

I played Soccer in my younger days. When I kicked a corner, I always threw a little grass up to check the wind direction. I always adjusted my kick direction to the wind. No coach told me to do it. I can't see why Succop or other kickers don't think this way. He looked surprised when the wind took the ball to the left. He should have kicked as if he was aiming to hit the right post.

[gblowfish]

I played Soccer in my younger days. When I kicked a corner, I always threw a little grass up to check the wind direction. I always adjusted my kick direction to the wind. No coach told me to do it. I can't see why Succop or other kickers don't think this way. He looked surprised when the wind took the ball to the left. He should have kicked as if he was aiming to hit the right post. Actually, Arenas was doing the grass in the wind thing all day for judging punts.

[patteeu]

I played Soccer in my younger days. When I kicked a corner, I always threw a little grass up to check the wind direction. I always adjusted my kick direction to the wind. No coach told me to do it. I can't see why Succop or other kickers don't think this way. He looked surprised when the wind took the ball to the left. He should have kicked as if he was aiming to hit the right post.

The wind at head level isn't as important as the wind at 40 ft in the air. You can't throw grass high enough to test those winds. I'm sure Succop doesn't need any advice from you or anyone else here on how to judge the wind.

[Frankie]

The wind at head level isn't as important as the wind at 40 ft in the air.

Not totally true. If it's not a swirling type of wind it all goes in the same direction. I scored more than a few direct goals from the corner spot using that strategy. I really did.

Now you could have argued that the wind at Arrowhead was gusting and swirling. Your argument would have had more credibility.

[patteeu]

Not totally true. If it's not a swirling type of wind it all goes in the same direction. I scored more than a few direct goals from the corner spot using that strategy. I really did.

Now you could have argued that the wind at Arrowhead was gusting and swirling. Your argument would have had more credibility.

I didn't have to argue that the winds were swirling because everyone (but you, apparently) already knew that. If you didn't get it from the CBS broadcast, you could have read it in gblowfish's post earlier in this thread:

The wind was swirling the whole game. And what is weird is, sometimes the flags by the big scoreboard will be fairly still, but the streamers on the goalposts are waving like crazy. You could see the wind whipping the ref's zebra shirts all day.

The kick they passed up was pointing to the west end zone (under the big scoreboard). The winning kick was east, towards the little scoreboard. Also in OT, they picked defending the west goal. I think Succop wanted to kick to the east end zone. During halftime he was warming up kicking at the east goalposts.

Duh.

[keg in kc]

Maybe.
If they take that three the game probably doesn't go to OT.

But if you try that kick in the 2nd quarter, it's kicking at the West End Zone.
The winning OT kick was in the East End Zone. Winds swirl different -usually its worse- on the east side, because the wind goes up a tunnel in the southeast corner of the playing surface.

Succop hit the game winner on the tougher end to kick. Kudos to him.That may be the tougher end to kick in terms of a worse amount of wind, but isn't the wind on that end actually easier for a right footed kicker, because it hooks left. If they were going the other direction at the end of the game, he'd have had to kick at the left upright and hope for the wind to break it back to the right. Is that right? (I don't know for certain, I'm not nor have ever been a kicker...)

[patteeu]

That may be the tougher end to kick in terms of a worse amount of wind, but isn't the wind on that end actually easier for a right footed kicker, because it hooks left. If they were going the other direction at the end of the game, he'd have had to kick at the left upright and hope for the wind to break it back to the right. Is that right? (I don't know for certain, I'm not nor have ever been a kicker...)

Ask Frankie. He's a kicking expert.

[keg in kc]

I played soccer for years and years. But I'm not going to even pretend that translates into kicking an oblong ball through an upright 40 yards away in 50 mile an hour winds.

[patteeu]

I played soccer for years and years. But I'm not going to even pretend that translates into kicking an oblong ball through an upright 40 yards away in 50 mile an hour winds.

I played kick ball in grade school and I used to toss fistfuls of dirt and gravel into the air before it was my turn to kick. No, not because I was measuring the wind, just because it was fun.

[Frankie]

I played soccer for years and years. But I'm not going to even pretend that translates into kicking an oblong ball through an upright 40 yards away in 50 mile an hour winds.

The shape factors in some areas of techniques of kicking. Putting the ball is a very basic consideration regardless of shape.

[Frankie]

Ask Frankie. He's a kicking expert.

A basic idea does not an expert make. As such I never claimed to be one. But I played Soccer for years and coached it a few years more. Experienced, yes. Expert, is something you want to say just to be cute.

[Buehler445]

Not totally true. If it's not a swirling type of wind it all goes in the same direction. I scored more than a few direct goals from the corner spot using that strategy. I really did.

Now you could have argued that the wind at Arrowhead was gusting and swirling. Your argument would have had more credibility.

Wrong. Wind 40 feet up is most definitely different. Particularly INSIDE a structure. Crawl on your roof on any day when there is a little breeze and tell me it is different.

And you don't need grass, you can just turn and feel the wind on your face.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bugeater]

Wrong. Wind 40 feet up is most definitely different. Particularly INSIDE a structure. Crawl on your roof on any day when there is a little breeze and tell me it is different.

And you don't need grass, you can just turn and feel the wind on your face.
Posted via Mobile Device
Or just look at the streamer thingies on the goal posts...that's what they are there for.

And speaking as someone who has spent a great deal of his life working on ladders and roofs, I can attest that the wind can be different even 10-15 feet off of the ground.

[Coogs]

Well, I thought about that too. I think it's because the east end is where Succop was kicking all his warm up FGs during halftime. I think since that's the side he warmed up on, he may have wanted to kick that direction. Or, maybe the coaches didn't even think about it. Who knows? Plus, you can't tell when the wind is going to gust. The kick he missed got pushed like crazy. The winning kick went left too, but I don't think it went left as severely as the first kick. Just one of those things. Also, he was closer on the second kick than the first.

If I read Haley's presser remarks yesterday correctly, what you said here is pretty much spot on. I also think we have to thank the wind a little bit on Buffalo's miss going the other direction. Even though it was an ugly kick, it looked like it was going to sneak just inside the right upright, and at the last possible moment, the wind pushed it hard right into the upright. The previous kick that Haley called the TO on though, the wind did not seem to have any effect on at all. Tough conditions for a kicker Sundy all the way around.

[Frankie]

Wrong. Wind 40 feet up is most definitely different. In strength, not really in direction, if it's a directional wind as oppesed to a swirling type.

And you don't need grass, you can just turn and feel the wind on your face.
Posted via Mobile DeviceI did not say he should do the grass test. I said I did it. I was talking about having an understanding of how wind affects balls in the air. NFL kickers have the benefit of the flags at the top of goal posts. They do not need to throw grass up or to try to feel the wind on their face.

[patteeu]

Tell us more about this mysterious thing you call wind, Frankie!

[Frankie]

Tell us more about this mysterious thing you call wind, Frankie!

Trolling doesn't become you, pat. Especially when it's not in the DC forum.