"Educators produce nothing." or "Educators. Produce. Nothing."

[Mr. Kotter]

This statement was made by a fellow planeteer: Educators. Produce. Nothing.

:hmmm:

As a teacher, obviously, I disagree.

Since I can hardly be "objective," I'm wondering what others think about this statement?

You input, thoughts, and opinions are sincerely appreciated.

Edit: FTR, this isn't a big deal....certainly, not an issue of being "insecure" as some have suggested....those who know me would find that hysterical. I'm just intrigued by incredibly vitriolic and hateful contempt for the teaching profession....that some folks refuses to explain. I've called some out on it in a number of threads previously, yet they refuses to answer. I was hoping someone else might be able to articulate the reasons for his disdain and utter revulsion that comes through in many of posts related to teachers. Seriously. It's that simple. It is what it is.


BTW, Happy Thanksgiving! :toast:

[Donger]

Well, we know that they produce forum-jumping pooh.

[Drwbllz]

Bad educators produce nothing, but that goes with any profession. I've had a ton of influential teachers and professors throughout my life, some of whom I still keep in touch with (I'm 30).

I have several friends who are teachers now and I don't envy their jobs one bit. I get the impression that most of the roadblocks that prevent their students from bettering themselves are caused by the parents. Having the summer off isn't enough to make me want to deal with all the BS they get put through.

[Hammock Parties]

Insecure much?

[MMXcalibur]

Teachers. Vegetables. Absent.

[Radar Chief]

Keep DC :BS: in DC since that’s, like, why that forum was created.

[Gonzo]

Good teachers are hard to come by and they are a fundamental building block for our societies future.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jenson71]

Typically, the teaching is considered a service profession, like lawyers or doctors.

To the extent that teachers produce, it would be like saying a doctor produces a good body, at least good ones do: teachers produce educated humans, at least good ones do.

Production usually refers to tangible goods/chattels. Like pots.

[Donger]

Good teachers are hard to come by and they are a fundamental building block for our societies future.
Posted via Mobile Device

Especially English teachers.

[CaliforniaChief]

Educators always produce something. Whether that something is positive or negative largely depends on the quality of the educator is good or bad.

Unfortunately, parents' abdication of authority amplifies the effect that bad educators can have on people because they don't care enough to be responsible.

[Rain Man]

If you rearrange the letters of Educators produce nothing, you get Prudent narcotic doghouse.

[the Talking Can]

they produce mults

[Chiefs Rool]

they need to stop locking up all the good teachers. (the hot females one's who bone, just kidding, just kidding)

but in all seriousness. Educators do produce more than nothing, of course. There are many great teachers out there and there are also crappy ones, who don't give a crap or feel special with their "power" over children.

[Chiefs Rool]

they need to stop locking up all the good teachers. (the hot females one's who bone, just kidding, just kidding)

but in all seriousness. Educators do produce more than nothing, of course. There are many great teachers out there and there are also crappy ones, who don't give a crap or feel special with their "power" over children.

[Brock]

They produce mislocated threads.

[Deberg_1990]

I get the impression that most of the roadblocks that prevent their students from bettering themselves are caused by the parents.


This x10,000!!!

[Mr. Kotter]

Insecure much?

Not at all. I'd, ideally, like to see others demonstrate how absurd the notion is though.

Keep DC :BS: in DC since that’s, like, why that forum was created.

They produce mislocated threads.



This is NOT about politics. I'm soliciting opinions on a contemporary topic: education.

[Jenson71]

Good teaching is really a beautiful thing.

Here is Mortimer Adler on teaching:

Teaching, like farming and healing, is a cooperative art. Understanding this, Comenius in The Great Didactic again and again compares the cultivation of the mind with the cultivation of the field; so, too, Plato compares the teacher's art with the physician's.

In arts such as shoemaking and shipbuilding, painting and sculpture (arts which I call "operative" to distinguish them from the three cooperative arts), the artist is the principal cause of the product produced. Nature may supply the materials to be fashioned or transformed, and may even supply models to imitate, but without the intervention of the artist's skill and causal efficacy, nature would not produce shoes, ships, paintings or statues.

Unlike the operative artist, who aims either at beauty or utility, the cooperative artist merely helps nature to produce results that it is able to produce by its own powers, without the assistance of the artist -- without the intervention of the artist's accessory causality. Fruits and grains grow naturally; the farmer intervenes merely to assure that these natural products grow with regularity and, perhaps, to increase their quantity. The body has the power to heal itself -- to maintain health and regain health; the physician who adopts the Hippocratic conception of the healing art attempts to support and reinforce the natural processes of the body. The mind, like the body, has the power to achieve what is good for itself -- knowledge and understanding. Learning would go on if there were no teachers, just as healing and growing would go on if there were no physicians and farmers.

Like the farmer and the physician, the teacher must be sensitive to the natural process that his art should help bring to its fullest fruition -- the natural process of learning. It is the nature of human learning that determines the strategy and tactics of teaching. Since learning which results in expanded knowledge and improved understanding (rather than memorized facts) is essentially a process of discovery, the teacher's art consists largely in devices whereby one individual can help another to lift himself up from a state of knowing and understanding less to knowing and understanding more. Left to his own devices, the learner would not get very far unless he asked himself questions, perceived problems to be solved, suffered puzzlement over dilemmas, put himself under the necessity of following out the implications of this hypothesis or that, made observations and weighed the evidence for alternative hypotheses, and so on. The teacher, aware of these indispensable steps in the process by which he himself has moved his own mind up the ladder of learning, devises ways to help another individual engage in a similar process; and he applies them with sensitivity to the state of that other person's mind and with awareness of whatever special difficulties the other must overcome in order to make headway.

And we know of Socrates and Plato and then Aristotle as not only the bedrock of Western philosophy and civilization, but also as the first notable teachers. There were others before them, but they are monumental. Socrates, the wandering professor, not quite as industrious as his successors, who actually established their own schools to teach.

Some of the greatest people in my life were my teachers: my 5th grade teacher Sr. Margo, my freshmen world history teacher, and my college ancient history professor. They have made my life so much greater and more meaningful.

[Mr. Kotter]

Typically, the teaching is considered a service profession, like lawyers or doctors.

To the extent that teachers produce, it would be like saying a doctor produces a good body, at least good ones do: teachers produce educated humans, at least good ones do.

Production usually refers to tangible goods/chattels. Like pots.

So, "production" is solely applicable to manufactured products as opposed to delivery of services that, translated, directly benefit society? Is that your interpretation?

[Jenson71]

So, "production" is solely applicable to manufactured products as opposed to delivery of services that, translated, directly benefit society? Is that your interpretation?

Yes, I think that's the common interpretation, and I think it's probably technically correct.

[NewChief]

I'm fine with the perception remaining that we "produce" nothing. One of the biggest problems in the current direction of education "reform" is that business people are coming in as administrators and trying to treat education as a manufacturing job with the "product" being student test scores.

[Mr. Kotter]

Yes, I think that's the common interpretation, and I think it's probably technically correct.

Fair enough. I guess, when I think "produce" I think other contexts are as, if not more, important. Reasonable people can disagree.

I'm find with the perception remaining that we "produce" nothing. One of the biggest problems in the current direction of education "reform" is that business people are coming in as administrators and trying to treat education as a manufacturing job with the "product" being student test scores.

Interesting take. I'd disagree....but I could agree with the idea that "what" we produce is very difficult to measure and/or define, especially using imprecise and occasionally arbitrary assessment tools.

[Ebolapox]

I produce poop on average of 1.5 times every two days (for a ratio of 3/4 of a pooh every day).

you don't see me bragging and shit and making threads, do you?

[Stewie]

I'm fine with the perception remaining that we "produce" nothing. One of the biggest problems in the current direction of education "reform" is that business people are coming in as administrators and trying to treat education as a manufacturing job with the "product" being student test scores.

How many "business" people are taking influential admin jobs in Elementary/JH/HS? Student test score emphasis is driven by government school funding. "Teach the test!"

[chiefsnorth]

There is value as a support function to wider society. NASA doesn't just employ rocket scientists, they need accountants, HR types, people to work in the cafeteria, janitors, people to rig up lighting or train people. Education is a support function for the rest of society.

In terms of producing, no, it takes multiple other workers to pay their salary and benefits so the monetary gain in a particular year for hiring a new teacher is negative but it shouldn't be seen in only that way.

[chiefsnorth]

There is value as a support function to wider society. NASA doesn't just employ rocket scientists, they need accountants, HR types, people to work in the cafeteria, janitors, people to rig up lighting or train people. Education is a support function for the rest of society.

In terms of producing, no, it takes multiple other workers to pay their salary and benefits so the monetary gain in a particular year for hiring a new teacher is negative but it shouldn't be seen in only that way.

[NewChief]

How many "business" people are taking influential admin jobs in Elementary/JH/HS? Student test score emphasis is driven by government school funding. "Teach the test!"

In our district, I'd say that close to 50% of the central office administrators who are driving district policy have never actually taught and had prior careers in business. It's extremely prevalent.

There is a huge bureaucracy of middle management and consultants and data crunchers in education now, and that is where the majority of the educational "reform" money is being spent. Not in the classroom and not on the kids. It's being spent on consultants and middle-management.

[Jenson71]

Fair enough. I guess, when I think "produce" I think other contexts are as, if not more, important. Reasonable people can disagree.

Why is it important for you to think that you 'produce' something?

[Stewie]

In our district, I'd say that close to 50% of the central office administrators who are driving district policy have never actually taught and had prior careers in business. It's extremely prevalent.

There is a huge bureaucracy of middle management and consultants and data crunchers in education now, and that is where the majority of the educational "reform" money is being spent. Not in the classroom and not on the kids. It's being spent on consultants and middle-management.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "business" people in administration positions. Of course, you need business-minded people to appropriate monies, do accounting, balance ledgers, but why should they have been teachers? Doesn't the District Superintendent have a huge voice in all of this?

[NewChief]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "business" people in administration positions. Of course, you need business-minded people to appropriate monies, do accounting, balance ledgers, but why should they have been teachers? Doesn't the District Superintendent have a huge voice in all of this?

I'm not talking about in accounting and central office administrative staff of that sort. There are all of these other "business" people who are more like middle management. They sit on committees all day and make decisions about curriculum and programs and professional development and where to spend the money and what consultants to hire..etc.. etc..

They travel around the country attending seminars and learning about current trends in education and bringing back "knowledge" on how teaching should occur in the classroom... and... literally... most of them have never taught a day in their lives.

[Mr. Kotter]

Why is it important for you to think that you 'produce' something?

Perhaps because in America....the prevailing social construct seems to only value direct production of "tangible goods" which most of us understand to be ludicrous. Maybe it's a way of translating for those who don't understand, in my mind. Nothing more than that, really.

[Mr. Kotter]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "business" people in administration positions. Of course, you need business-minded people to appropriate monies, do accounting, balance ledgers, but why should they have been teachers? Doesn't the District Superintendent have a huge voice in all of this?

I think he means business types infiltrating into curriculum areas. It would be like having an elementary gym teacher or art teacher do your accounting and payroll for a large business.

EDIT: I see NewPhin answered for himself...sorry.

[Stewie]

I'm not talking about in accounting and central office administrative staff of that sort. There are all of these other "business" people who are more like middle management. They sit on committees all day and make decisions about curriculum and programs and professional development and where to spend the money and what consultants to hire..etc.. etc..

They travel around the country attending seminars and learning about current trends in education and bringing back "knowledge" on how teaching should occur in the classroom... and... literally... most of them have never taught a day in their lives.

Heh! You sound like my sister who retired two years ago teaching 1st and 2nd graders for 30 years. It's a mess, for sure. Phonics one year, whole-word the next year. No one could make up their mind. She was actually part of the "commitee" you speak about in her district... and she actually taught. They had nice (expensive) trips to NYC for shows on Broadway and stayed in 5-star hotels under the guise of "improving education." That really turned her off and she decided enough was enough. It wasn't business, it was bureaucracy at the highest level.

[Jenson71]

Perhaps because in America....the prevailing social construct seems to only value direct production of "tangible goods" which most of us understand to be ludicrous. Maybe it's a way of translating for those who don't understand, in my mind. Nothing more than that, really.

No need for it. And on the board, it does end up looking insecure about your choice for a career or a backhanded attempt at clevelandbronco.

[Earthling]

Produce might not be the best word, but, in this context, I would say they produce potential. The potential to find out the 'how and why' of things and the motivation to find out.

[Mr. Kotter]

No need for it. And on the board, it does end up looking insecure about your choice for a career or a backhanded attempt at clevelandbronco.

Call it what you want. I know my own intentions.

I'm just intrigued by CB's incredibly vitriolic and hateful contempt for the teaching profession....that he refuses to explain. I've called him on it in a number of threads previously, yet he refuses to answer. I was hoping someone else might be able to articulate the reasons for his disdain and utter revulsion that comes through in many of his posts related to teachers.

It's just interesting enough to me, that I'd like an answer. That's all. Nothing deeper. Sorry.

[NewChief]

Call it what you want. I know my own intentions.

I'm just intrigued by CB's incredibly vitriolic and hateful contempt for the teaching profession....that he refuses to explain. I've called him on it in a number of threads previously, yet he refuses to answer. I was hoping someone else might be able to articulate the reasons for his disdain and utter revulsion that comes through in many of his posts related to teachers.

It's just interesting enough to me, that I'd like an answer. That's all. Nothing deeper. Sorry.

My advice to you wrt Clevelandsteamer is to either ignore him or laugh at him. His views on education are so batshit crazy that even the most extreme DC citizens usually distance themselves from him on that issue.

[Mr. Kotter]

My advice to you wrt Clevelandsteamer is to either ignore him or laugh at him. His views on education are so batshit crazy that even the most extreme DC citizens usually distance themselves from him on that issue.

I understand what you are saying. It's just that on most issues, he can articulate an intelligent response. Even if you disagree with him, he usually makes a coherent argument. On teachers, yeah....he's just off the deep end. Maybe some teacher/school really did something awful to him or some family member or whatever.....there just has to be something more to it, than the conservative knee-jerk reaction that "all educators are bleeding heart liberal fools!" And I've seen it often enough, that I just am really curious about "what." Not that I expect that he'd share it with us now, anyway.....I suppose. Oh well. Probably one of those home schooling freaks (not that all of them are freaks, but he seems on the verge IMHO.) And, in fairness, there are lots of school districts in this country where I'd consider it....if I lived there. Just saying.

Maybe someone else will still give it a shot. Cognitive dissonance, knowing the enemy, and understanding opposing arguments....and all that, ya know.

[Mr. Kotter]

I'd really like to hear from someone who shares the sentiment expressed in the OP....sincerely. I'm trying to understand the thought process....the case, if it goes beyond "you don't produce stuff/widgets."

[Garcia Bronco]

Teachers are generally worthless in the current system because they lack decision making ability in areas that are key to producing well educated students.

[NewChief]

Heh! You sound like my sister who retired two years ago teaching 1st and 2nd graders for 30 years. It's a mess, for sure. Phonics one year, whole-word the next year. No one could make up their mind. She was actually part of the "commitee" you speak about in her district... and she actually taught. They had nice (expensive) trips to NYC for shows on Broadway and stayed in 5-star hotels under the guise of "improving education." That really turned her off and she decided enough was enough. It wasn't business, it was bureaucracy at the highest level.

Yep. This exactly. We have some teachers who get on the committees, but we (and many other districts) have an entire level of administrators whose job consists of little else besides forming and sitting on the committees.

[Norman Einstein]

If you rearrange the letters of Educators produce nothing, you get Prudent narcotic doghouse.

You have WAY too much time on your hands.

[Norman Einstein]

Nobody asked for my opinion, and I'm sure that most of you will react in the normal fashion to my opinion, but you get it anyway.

The education system is broken and can't be fixed. Teachers need to be kind an impartial educator, not inserting their particular political belief in the classes that teach government. I was in a HS that had about an even spread of left leaning and right leaning teachers, that wasn't good but better than my kids went through. College mostly were left leaning professors/instructors and it got old on a day to day basis.

There is a place in the world for the left as well as a place in the world for the right. In a perfect world (U.S.) we would be evenly split and the left and right would work together. We've seen that many of the young of today do not believe in capitalism but in welfare. The older generations believe in capitalism and think welfare should be a hand up not a hand out.

How do we fix the broken educational system to stop the rampant left only trends? I know there are teachers here as well as college graduates that are opinionated, there is probably more of a mix than I perceive, but if this country was run solely by the left we would be entrenched in a communistic state in a few years.

Teachers need to teach without influencing the students to do more than learn is basically what I'm saying. The best teachers I had in HS wouldn't talk politics outside of election years and then it was open discussion. I doubt that can happen today in the same way it did in the ancient time I came from.

[jbwm89]

Teachers are generally worthless in the current system because they lack decision making ability in areas that are key to producing well educated students.

Worthless, absolutely not. But could they provide a better education with more freedom? I would say most would.

[Jenson71]

Nobody asked for my opinion, and I'm sure that most of you will react in the normal fashion to my opinion, but you get it anyway.

The education system is broken and can't be fixed. Teachers need to be kind an impartial educator, not inserting their particular political belief in the classes that teach government. I was in a HS that had about an even spread of left leaning and right leaning teachers, that wasn't good but better than my kids went through. College mostly were left leaning professors/instructors and it got old on a day to day basis.

There is a place in the world for the left as well as a place in the world for the right. In a perfect world (U.S.) we would be evenly split and the left and right would work together. We've seen that many of the young of today do not believe in capitalism but in welfare. The older generations believe in capitalism and think welfare should be a hand up not a hand out.

No one appreciates your opinion because you're so out of touch with reality, your opinions are inherently worthless.

[Deberg_1990]

Without educators, there would be no one to produce anything.

[jbwm89]

Nobody asked for my opinion, and I'm sure that most of you will react in the normal fashion to my opinion, but you get it anyway.

The education system is broken and can't be fixed. Teachers need to be kind an impartial educator, not inserting their particular political belief in the classes that teach government. I was in a HS that had about an even spread of left leaning and right leaning teachers, that wasn't good but better than my kids went through. College mostly were left leaning professors/instructors and it got old on a day to day basis.

There is a place in the world for the left as well as a place in the world for the right. In a perfect world (U.S.) we would be evenly split and the left and right would work together. We've seen that many of the young of today do not believe in capitalism but in welfare. The older generations believe in capitalism and think welfare should be a hand up not a hand out.

How do we fix the broken educational system to stop the rampant left only trends? I know there are teachers here as well as college graduates that are opinionated, there is probably more of a mix than I perceive, but if this country was run solely by the left we would be entrenched in a communistic state in a few years.

Teachers need to teach without influencing the students to do more than learn is basically what I'm saying. The best teachers I had in HS wouldn't talk politics outside of election years and then it was open discussion. I doubt that can happen today in the same way it did in the ancient time I came from.

I went to a private grade school/high school and now a public university. being a business major some of my classes involve politics but all of my teachers are very good about remaining unbiased and presenting both sides of the spectrum. I think you are taking something that happens on occasion and being completely ridiculous about it, what you are describing is the exception not the rule.

[Fat Elvis]

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[Jenson71]

I went to a private grade school/high school and now a public university. being a business major some of my classes involve politics but all of my teachers are very good about remaining unbiased and presenting both sides of the spectrum. I think you are taking something that happens on occasion and being completely ridiculous about it, what you are describing is the exception not the rule.

I also went to a private grade/high school and then a public university. I was a History and Political Science major. Of all my professors, I knew of one that was liberal. And he was unashamedly liberal, yet he constantly mentioned his good friend, the Nazi dentist that he would often eat with. It was all in good fun.

T. Cash argues that today's youth is less capitalist than older generations. The reality is that today's youth is more economically, socially, and politically conservative than in the past. Today, campus ministry events gather larger crowds than government protests. Can the same be said for the student of the 1960s? 1970s?

[JD10367]

Bad educators produce nothing, but that goes with any profession.

This. There are great teachers and useless teachers. Just as there are great cops and cops who are power-hungry and abuse their privileges and their badge. Just as there are great doctors and crappy doctors who botch operations and are callous and unsympathetic. Just as there are great donut-shop workers who greet you with a smile and get your coffee right, and there are fuckwaffles who screw up your order and are surly.

However, I'll admit that teaching is one of those downtrodden and weary professions (much like public service) where the teachers are often overworked, underpaid, understaffed, unappreciated, and underfunded. So it's probably easy for a teacher to get disillusioned and stop giving a shit, especially since the majority of parents don't give a shit, and neither do the kids in their class. It becomes less about polishing gems and more about pushing the turds out and getting a new load in.

[NewChief]

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So good and so dead on the money. Ken Robinson is awesome. His TED talk was brilliant as well. He and Daniel Pink need to be the ones advising the President on education, not Arne Dumbass.

[jbwm89]

I also went to a private grade/high school and then a public university. I was a History and Political Science major. Of all my professors, I knew of one that was liberal. And he was unashamedly liberal, yet he constantly mentioned his good friend, the Nazi dentist that he would often eat with. It was all in good fun.

T. Cash argues that today's youth is less capitalist than older generations. The reality is that today's youth is more economically, socially, and politically conservative than in the past. Today, campus ministry events gather larger crowds than government protests. Can the same be said for the student of the 1960s? 1970s?

Exposure to the left and the right is important. I am pretty strongly conservative but Einstein makes it sound like any speck of liberal ideas in the education system is like teaching satanism. Part of education is developing an ability to make informed, educated choices. I do not see how leaving politics completely out of the educational system would make any sense. Opinions should stay as biased as possible, but both sides should be presented and understood in their entirety.

[vailpass]

I also went to a private grade/high school and then a public university. I was a History and Political Science major. Of all my professors, I knew of one that was liberal. And he was unashamedly liberal, yet he constantly mentioned his good friend, the Nazi dentist that he would often eat with. It was all in good fun.

T. Cash argues that today's youth is less capitalist than older generations. The reality is that today's youth is more economically, socially, and politically conservative than in the past. Today, campus ministry events gather larger crowds than government protests. Can the same be said for the student of the 1960s? 1970s?

In what Iowa town did you grow up/attend school?

I'm Cedar Rapids, Parish League then Regis.

[jbwm89]

This. There are great teachers and useless teachers. Just as there are great cops and cops who are power-hungry and abuse their privileges and their badge. Just as there are great doctors and crappy doctors who botch operations and are callous and unsympathetic. Just as there are great donut-shop workers who greet you with a smile and get your coffee right, and there are ****waffles who screw up your order and are surly.

However, I'll admit that teaching is one of those downtrodden and weary professions (much like public service) where the teachers are often overworked, underpaid, understaffed, unappreciated, and underfunded. So it's probably easy for a teacher to get disillusioned and stop giving a shit, especially since the majority of parents don't give a shit, and neither do the kids in their class. It becomes less about polishing gems and more about pushing the turds out and getting a new load in.

I have problems saying that most teachers are underpaid or overworked. Not that teachers don't work hard and obviously they aren't making the big bucks but wages are partially controlled by the ridiculous surplus of teachers available. I have lots of friends who are education majors who have told me it is almost impossible to find a full time teaching job after graduating.

I am not sure what current salaries are everywhere but up here in Training Camp land some elementary schools teachers I know make in the 40's with 2-3 months off a year. I have been doing a lot of job hunting and I wish I could find something even close to that with my BA in management.

[vailpass]

For the love of God. This stupidity again?

[patteeu]

I'll go with whatever ClevelandBronco has to say about this.

[patteeu]

BTW, this is obviously not an issue of being insecure.

[Norman Einstein]

No one appreciates your opinion because you're so out of touch with reality, your opinions are inherently worthless. Wrong, but that's what right about you, you are always wrong.

[Norman Einstein]

I went to a private grade school/high school and now a public university. being a business major some of my classes involve politics but all of my teachers are very good about remaining unbiased and presenting both sides of the spectrum. I think you are taking something that happens on occasion and being completely ridiculous about it, what you are describing is the exception not the rule.

Take a look at the demographics by age. The younger generations seem to be leaning more left election after election. I think it is actually a traceable trend.

[ClevelandBronco]

Good grief, Kotter.

[Norman Einstein]

Exposure to the left and the right is important. I am pretty strongly conservative but Einstein makes it sound like any speck of liberal ideas in the education system is like teaching satanism. Part of education is developing an ability to make informed, educated choices. I do not see how leaving politics completely out of the educational system would make any sense. Opinions should stay as biased as possible, but both sides should be presented and understood in their entirety.

Maybe I didn't express it correctly but the jist is that most of the universities have gone totally liberal. It used to be that UC Berekely was the most liberal school in the Nation, I think KU is running a close second.

When my grand kids come home with garbage from the left I'm sure it's not something they thought up themselves.

[Fish]

Maybe I didn't express it correctly but the jist is that most of the universities have gone totally liberal. It used to be that UC Berekely was the most liberal school in the Nation, I think KU is running a close second.

When my grand kids come home with garbage from the left I'm sure it's not something they thought up themselves.

ROFL

So you're basing an opinion of the entire educational system off shit your grandkids say?

Wow..... sounds about right for you...

[jbwm89]

Take a look at the demographics by age. The younger generations seem to be leaning more left election after election. I think it is actually a traceable trend.

Could this have anything to do with the most recent lefty being extremely popular with the young voters for a number of reasons besides that they are improperly slanted by our flawed education system? (I.e. his race, popularity with celebs/rappers, "Change" campaign, speaking ability, opposition to a war that was unpopular with young people (kind of like vietnam on a much smaller scale).

[jbwm89]

Maybe I didn't express it correctly but the jist is that most of the universities have gone totally liberal. It used to be that UC Berekely was the most liberal school in the Nation, I think KU is running a close second.

When my grand kids come home with garbage from the left I'm sure it's not something they thought up themselves.

Well i can really only speak for the school I attend which is MU, and from what I have experienced it is pretty unbiased at least in the Poly sci and business departments.

Don't you think it is a giant stretch to call an entire educational system broke b/c you think that one (very gay) school your grandkids attends is leftist?

[Boise_Chief]

The OP reminds me of this.
Capitalization
The difference between Helping your uncle Jack off a horse and Helping your uncle jack off a horse.

[Norman Einstein]

Well i can really only speak for the school I attend which is MU, and from what I have experienced it is pretty unbiased at least in the Poly sci and business departments.

Don't you think it is a giant stretch to call an entire educational system broke b/c you think that one (very gay) school your grandkids attends is leftist?


Check around the country jb. It's not isolated to small town schools. If you don't see it I suggest it's because you don't want to believe it happens.

[Norman Einstein]

ROFL

So you're basing an opinion of the entire educational system off shit your grandkids say?

Wow..... sounds about right for you...

Sounds about right that you dismiss an pandemic in schools. But I've never expected much from you. I suggest you do some studying about the issues and look up some of the nationwide commentary on the subject.

[Jenson71]

Take a look at the demographics by age. The younger generations seem to be leaning more left election after election. I think it is actually a traceable trend.

I'd love to see your data for this. I'd love to see this data you have which shows more youth were voting conservative in the older generations.

[Norman Einstein]

I'd love to see your data for this. I'd love to see this data you have which shows more youth were voting conservative in the older generations.

I'm sure you would, but again, I'm not going to do your research for you. If you want to prove me wrong I'm all ears.

[Jenson71]

I'm sure you would, but again, I'm not going to do your research for you. If you want to prove me wrong I'm all ears.

You don't have to show me it, but I would just like to know if you have poll responses and stats that actually show a "traceable trend" (your words). Just let me know if you have those and based your posts off those.

[Fish]

Sounds about right that you dismiss an pandemic in schools. But I've never expected much from you. I suggest you do some studying about the issues and look up some of the nationwide commentary on the subject.

Do some studying?? You mean like talking to your poor grandkids? That kind of "studying"?

You're one of the most delusional and defiant people I've ever seen on the internet. I haven't seen a single person on this site take you seriously in the slightest. Zero respect from this entire forum. Zero. Yet you come here and fight the world. And through your posting, it appears that you're always totally oblivious to how bad your arguments are, and how badly you've lost. It's like watching a prideful handicapped kid fight a group of bullies. It's a mixture of sadness and intrigue, but one just cannot look away. I respect your inner pride, yet I feel sorry that you cannot see anything outside of your own warped perspective on life and values.

[Ugly Duck]

Educators produce a future for America. The world would stampede by us without our educators doing their thing. Even I can figure that one out.

[Ugly Duck]

When my grand kids come home with garbage from the left I'm sure it's not something they thought up themselves.

Translation: Garbage from the Left = any fact not spun into bolivian by Faux News

[ClevelandBronco]

Translation: Garbage from the Left = any fact not spun into bolivian by Faux News

Bolivian? Oblivion?

[jbwm89]

Do some studying?? You mean like talking to your poor grandkids? That kind of "studying"?

You're one of the most delusional and defiant people I've ever seen on the internet. I haven't seen a single person on this site take you seriously in the slightest. Zero respect from this entire forum. Zero. Yet you come here and fight the world. And through your posting, it appears that you're always totally oblivious to how bad your arguments are, and how badly you've lost. It's like watching a prideful handicapped kid fight a group of bullies. It's a mixture of sadness and intrigue, but one just cannot look away. I respect your inner pride, yet I feel sorry that you cannot see anything outside of your own warped perspective on life and values.

Amen to that. what a moron.

[Direckshun]

I'd like the guy saying "teachers produce nothing" to define what "something" is.

Hilarity awaits.

[GloryDayz]

You can't fix stupid, and in far too many cases that's what our teachers are asked to do. There's no one thing that's going to "fix" it, but whatever but if there's one thing that will make a difference, it's the parents. Take any school where achievement is high, and I can almost assure that there's a high degree of parent involvement. Even if the involvement is to simply make sure the kids show up, pay attention, stay out of trouble, and do their work at school and home. No parent needs a degree to do that. Compare the instructional time afforded between the 'have' and 'have not' schools, and you'll find that to a large degree the 'have' schools spend the day teaching, and not trying to get the kids to pay attention. They can cry all they want, make all the excuses they want too, but if they want their kids to succeed, they'll make sure their kid is in school, working, and doing his/her homework. Then the teacher doesn't need to slap him!!!

[Chieftain58]

Teachers get great health insurance, months of vacation time, shorter work days, retirement benefits and do almost no physical labor, As well as 2 weeks sick leave a year that can accrue up to 35 days and multiple Holidays off a year.... oh and personal days! (I'm not a teacher but I work as staff and get almost all that too!)

[Bwana]

This Thread.......LMAO

[Rausch]

My 1st year as a Teacher's Aide:

Rausch: Yeah, makes sense, I didn't get great grades either. Yeah, I'l love to help these kids get a little extra in the classroom.

*1st day of class* Teacher 1: Ok, here's the drill. You're the Pat's D and these stupid bastards are Marshall Faulk. Your job is to occupy them while I deal with the rest of the class.

Rausch: Wait.........whut?

Teacher 1: distract them, work with them, do whatever. Here's a lesson plan (Scooby Doo coloring book) and make sure they complete it before the week is over...

http://www.multiplaying.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/facepalm-statue1.jpg