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Al Bundy
12-13-2010, 08:17 AM
darrenrovell darren rovell
Big Ten announcing new logo & division names on BTN today @ noon ET

007
12-13-2010, 08:19 AM
Big we don't know how to count.

Sassy Squatch
12-13-2010, 08:21 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/ghettostylin/carecup333.jpg

|Zach|
12-13-2010, 08:23 AM
I thought the new Pac 10 one was really impressive.

Sam Hall
12-13-2010, 08:34 AM
EXCITEMENT

gblowfish
12-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Things are going to start happening now!!!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kOTDn2A7hcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kOTDn2A7hcY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Bob Dole
12-13-2010, 12:20 PM
http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/12/13/big-ten-conference-unveils-new-logo/

mikeyis4dcats.
12-13-2010, 12:22 PM
wow...that's terrible.

Big 10 announces new divisions: Team Edward and Team Jacob

Reaper16
12-13-2010, 12:24 PM
"Legends & Leaders" as the division names is the stupidest thing in college football next to the bowl system. B1g Ten: the RPG. I literally will not be able to help myself from cracking jokes about rolling d20s, making saving throws, and checking a defender's THAC0.

Old Dog
12-13-2010, 12:24 PM
"Leaders" and "Legends" for Division names? That's uh, different, I guess different is the best way to say it (since dumber than hell isn't very nice).

CaliforniaChief
12-13-2010, 12:25 PM
Ebony and Ivory would have worked.

:facepalm:

Bane
12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
Who gives 2 shits about the big 10 anyway?Only good thing IMO is going to be watching Noobraksa getting OWNED every year and all of the excuses Cornholer nation will come up with.
GO BADGERS FUCK YEAH!!!!!

Demonpenz
12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
Two divisions John Cougar and John Mellencamp would have been sweet

mikeyis4dcats.
12-13-2010, 12:28 PM
the division trophies:


Stagg-Paterno Championship Trophy: Amos Alonzo Stagg, Chicago Joe Paterno, Penn State

Grange-Griffin Championship Game MVP: Harold Edward “Red” Grange, Illinois Archie Griffin, Ohio State

Ford-Kinnick Leadership Award: Gerald R. Ford, Michigan Nile Kinnick, Iowa

Dungy-Thompson Humanitarian Award: Tony Dungy, Minnesota Anthony Thompson, Indiana

Graham-George Offensive Player of the Year: Otto Graham, Northwestern Eddie George, Ohio State

Nagurski-Woodson Defensive Player of the Year: Bronislau “Bronko” Nagurski, Minnesota Charles Woodson, Michigan

Hayes-Schembechler Coach of the Year: Wayne Woodrow “Woody” Hayes, Ohio State Glenn Edward “Bo” Schembechler, Michigan

Thompson-Randle El Freshman of the Year: Darrell Thompson, Minnesota Antwaan Randle El, Indiana

Rimington-Pace Offensive Lineman of the Year: Dave Rimington, Nebraska Orlando Pace, Ohio State

Smith-Brown Defensive Lineman of the Year: Charles Aaron “Bubba” Smith, Michigan State Courtney Brown, Penn State

Griese-Brees Quarterback of the Year: Bob Griese, Purdue Drew Brees, Purdue

Ameche-Dayne Running Back of the Year: Alan Ameche, Wisconsin Ron Dayne, Wisconsin

Tatum-Woodson Defensive Back of the Year: Jack Tatum, Ohio State Rod Woodson, Purdue

Butkus-Fitzgerald Linebacker of the Year: Dick Butkus, Illinois Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern

Richter-Howard Receiver of the Year: Pat Richter, Wisconsin Desmond Howard, Michigan

Kwalick-Clark Tight End of the Year: Ted Kwalick, Penn State Dallas Clark, Iowa

Bakken-Andersen Kicker of the Year: Jim Bakken, Wisconsin Morten Andersen, Michigan State

Eddleman-Fields Punter of the Year: Thomas Dwight “Dike” Eddleman, Illinois Brandon Fields, Michigan State

Bambi
12-13-2010, 12:28 PM
posted in another thread but here's your logo

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/campus-rivalry/2010/12/13/bigtenx-large.jpg

ReynardMuldrake
12-13-2010, 12:31 PM
JFC that's ugly.

salame
12-13-2010, 12:35 PM
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jun2007/Babushka.gif

Reaper16
12-13-2010, 12:35 PM
Nebraska fans, ya'll got dicked on the trophy names, right?

blaise
12-13-2010, 12:40 PM
The Big 12 will create three divisions: The Future Mountain West Teams, The Future Pac 10 Teams, and the Future SEC teams.

|Zach|
12-13-2010, 12:40 PM
The Big 12 will create three divisions: The Future Mountain West Teams, The Future Pac 10 Teams, and the Future SEC teams.
Nebraska fans, ya'll got dicked on the trophy names, right?


LMAO

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 12:42 PM
Nebraska fans, ya'll got dicked on the trophy names, right?

When the majority of your legendary players are also criminals, the whole trophy thing doesn't lend itself well to your program.

Sam Hall
12-13-2010, 12:44 PM
These names are decent but not great. Plains and Lakes would've been better.

Buck
12-13-2010, 12:44 PM
Damn that is the ugliest logo ever.

AndChiefs
12-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Ugly logo, stupid division names....nice job Big 10.

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 12:50 PM
When the majority of your legendary players are also criminals, the whole trophy thing doesn't lend itself well to your program.

El Roberson says whats up

blaise
12-13-2010, 12:50 PM
The SEC says they will change division names to "This'N" and "That'N"

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 12:50 PM
These names are decent but not great. Plains and Lakes would've been better.
How embarrassing.

Buck
12-13-2010, 12:51 PM
So does each team have a guaranteed game from the other division every year?

Does Ohio St play Michigan every year still?

alnorth
12-13-2010, 12:52 PM
I dont care about the logo, its fine I guess. The division names are one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of in the history of college sports.

People simply are not going to take it seriously, reporters are not going to talk about the champion of the legends and leaders divisions without snickering and rolling their eyes. This is going to be the subject of popular mockery for years, it doesn't enhance the image of the conference, it embarasses it.

This is the kind of stupid crap that comes out of 4-hour marketing brainstorming meetings where a small group of people huddled together convince themselves that this will be great before the public reacts with a "WTF?"

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 12:52 PM
So does each team have a guaranteed game from the other division every year?

Does Ohio St play Michigan every year still?

Yes. Nebraskas cross over game is Penn State in case you were wondering.

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 12:52 PM
El Roberson says whats up

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|Zach|
12-13-2010, 12:52 PM
The logo itself isn't bad IMO but I am surprised by the color.

Buck
12-13-2010, 12:53 PM
Yes. Nebraskas cross over game is Penn State in case you were wondering.

Oh thats a good game. Do you know all of them?

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 12:55 PM
Legends and Leaders just edged out "Tops" and "Bottoms".

Sam Hall
12-13-2010, 12:55 PM
How embarrassing.

You're making entirely too much of this.

Brock
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
You're making entirely too much of this.

Not really. It's stupid and worthy of ridicule.

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
You're making entirely too much of this.

If anything, i'm not making enough of it.

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Oh thats a good game. Do you know all of them?

The guaranteed cross-division matchups are:
Illinois-Northwestern
Indiana-Michigan State
Ohio State-Michigan
Penn State-Nebraska
Purdue-Iowa
Wisconsin-Minnesota

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Nebraska leaves the Big XII claiming that the league is too focused on Texas. The new conference then designs an entire league schedule so that Michigan can play Ohio State.

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 01:00 PM
Would Saul be bitching about the Big 10 if they hadn't rejected Missouri? Doubtful.

the Talking Can
12-13-2010, 01:01 PM
i don't have words at the moment....beyond epic stupid

Sam Hall
12-13-2010, 01:03 PM
These are just names of divisions. It's not a big deal. You can't name a conference that has cool division names. There aren't any. The fact that NU is leaving for a better place is what matters to me.

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 01:03 PM
i don't have words at the moment....beyond epic stupid
As it turns out, you had the words all along.

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 01:05 PM
These are just names of divisions. It's not a big deal. You can't name a conference that has cool division names. There aren't any. The fact that NU is leaving for a better place is what matters to me.

I can name several divisions that don't have stupid names.

dirk digler
12-13-2010, 01:06 PM
"Legends & Leaders" as the division names is the stupidest thing in college football next to the bowl system. B1g Ten: the RPG. I literally will not be able to help myself from cracking jokes about rolling d20s, making saving throws, and checking a defender's THAC0.

Wow that is stupid.

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 01:08 PM
These are just names of divisions. It's not a big deal. You can't name a conference that has cool division names. There aren't any. The fact that NU is leaving for a better place is what matters to me.
It doesn't give you pause that the first item of business for the new conference was to bow at the altar of Ohio State and Michigan? Texas may drive the bus in the Big XII, but they don't force the rest of the conference to give up an at-large game just so they can play an extra rivalry game every other year.

bowener
12-13-2010, 01:08 PM
Legends and Leaders just edged out "Tops" and "Bottoms".

Perfect.

mikeyis4dcats.
12-13-2010, 01:08 PM
El Roberson says whats up

what crime did Ell commit?

bowener
12-13-2010, 01:10 PM
I am just making an observation here, but does it seem that the B1G TEN has the most "Letter" schools out of all conferences?

8 out of 12 schools seem to use a letter instead of a mascot emblem.

Sam Hall
12-13-2010, 01:12 PM
These names are generic, just like the division names in other conferences. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to make something out of nothing.

Stewie
12-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Shouldn't one of the divisions be called "SEC's bitch"?

Phobia
12-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Logos and names for well established entities aren't critical. Nobody likes change. This will take some adjustment. I'm pretty ambivalent after my favorite team got embarrassed in the 2nd half of the season and then still ended up in a decent bowl.

Phobia
12-13-2010, 01:16 PM
I am just making an observation here, but does it seem that the B1G TEN has the most "Letter" schools out of all conferences?

8 out of 12 schools seem to use a letter instead of a mascot emblem.

I think that's pretty common with institutions dating so far back. Graphics designers were pretty rare in 1868.

Bob Dole
12-13-2010, 01:18 PM
The Big 12 South is now "Us" and the north is "Them", in case everyone missed the press release.

bowener
12-13-2010, 01:19 PM
I can't wait until the Pac 12 changes their division names to "Shirts and Skins". The idea is that conference matchups in female sports will create a massive increase in cash flow, avoiding an embarassing flaccid monetary performance.

CoMoChief
12-13-2010, 01:22 PM
Wow, that's awful.

I wonder why they went with "gay" blue instead of just regualr blue like before, woulda been a lot better that way.

blaise
12-13-2010, 01:23 PM
MLB announced they'll create two divisions and rename them The Haves and the Have Nots.

loochy
12-13-2010, 01:26 PM
darrenrovell darren rovell
Big Ten announcing new logo & division names on BTN today @ noon ET

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll224/Mackles200/allow-me-to-dredge-some-care.jpg

Buehler445
12-13-2010, 01:30 PM
I'm glad I read this thread. I got some good chuckles out of it.

Swanman
12-13-2010, 01:38 PM
I am just making an observation here, but does it seem that the B1G TEN has the most "Letter" schools out of all conferences?

8 out of 12 schools seem to use a letter instead of a mascot emblem.

Illinois used to have a much better emblem but the PC Police and the dickheads at the NCAA deemed it "hostile and abusive".

Molitoth
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
I can't believe they paid a company to design that logo. Absolutely terrible.

mlyonsd
12-13-2010, 01:52 PM
I can't believe they paid a company to design that logo. Absolutely terrible.
Ditto.

Molitoth
12-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Ditto.

I mean, the resolution even sucks.

I myself, or plenty of people I know could've designed a much better looking logo for a small portion of the price in a much higher resolution.

This makes me wanna puke. I bet they paid thousands of dollars for that too.

InChiefsHeaven
12-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Maybe in 20 years "Legends" and "Leaders" will sound normal for the divisions...right now it's rather jarring.

...and the logo is...meh, whatever.

I think it's funny how excited they are about it though:

The new Big Ten logo was developed by Michael Bierut and Michael Gericke of the international design firm Pentagram.

The name of the company that made it is Pentagram?? SATAN RUNS THIS CONFERENCE!!!

“The new Big Ten logo was developed to symbolize the conference’s future, as well as its rich heritage, strong tradition of competition, academic leadership, and passionate alumni,” said Gericke. “Its contemporary collegiate lettering includes an embedded numeral ‘10’ in the word ‘BIG,’ which allows fans to see ‘BIG’ and ‘10’ in a single word. Memorable and distinctive, the new logo evolved from the previous logo’s use of negative space and is built on the conference’s iconic name, without reference to the number of member institutions.”

Wow see, it's memorable and distinctive and totally friggin' awesome!!

The new logo also provides the flexibility of multiple versions which can be used horizontally, vertically and within new media.

FUCKING GENIOUS!!

“The new Big Ten logo provides a contemporary identifying mark unifying 12 outstanding institutions,” said Delany. “It conveys some elements from the past while simultaneously introducing new features. [B]We think the new logo is fun and has something for everyone.”[B]/

It's FUN!

Bob Dole
12-13-2010, 02:08 PM
I mean, the resolution even sucks.

I myself, or plenty of people I know could've designed a much better looking logo for a small portion of the price in a much higher resolution.

This makes me wanna puke. I bet they paid thousands of dollars for that too.

Maybe we should have an internal "design the new [pick something] logo" contest.

(Bob Dole would expect some MS Paint masterpieces.)

ChiefsCountry
12-13-2010, 02:23 PM
As a marketing professional, the new Big Ten logo just sucks. And the Legends and Leaders division names. Good fucking grief. I swear some people in my profession are just fucking retards with no common sense.

I do have the Big 12 new divisions if they go back to 12 teams:
Steers and Queers. J/K

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 02:23 PM
As a marketing professional, the new Big Ten logo just sucks. And the Legends and Leaders division names. Good ****ing grief. I swear some people in my profession are just ****ing retards with no common sense.

I do have the Big 12 new divisions if they go back to 12 teams:
Steers and Queers. J/K

How much do you think they spent on all this stuff?

ChiefsCountry
12-13-2010, 02:29 PM
How much do you think they spent on all this stuff?

I really don't know, what we charge in Mid-Missouri and Springfield markets compared to a national account would be a whole lot more.

LiveSteam
12-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Would Saul be bitching about the Big 10 if they hadn't rejected Missouri? Doubtful.

Hell NO! His big fat fingers wouldn't be typing shit

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 02:55 PM
BTW they named the divisions after my biceps. Merry Christmas

buddha
12-13-2010, 03:03 PM
Leaders and Legends is completely pretentious. There is no other way to spin it. This is like the rich kid showing up to practice everyday wearing perfecting clean new gear. All you want to do is hit them over and over again. The Big 10 is already teetering on insignificance. I guess when all you have is memories, you come up with something foolish like that.

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 03:06 PM
Leaders and Legends is completely pretentious. There is no other way to spin it. This is like the rich kid showing up to practice everyday wearing perfecting clean new gear. All you want to do is hit them over and over again. The Big 10 is already teetering on insignificance. I guess when all you have is memories, you come up with something foolish like that.

The Big 10 is one of the best academic conferences and has 4 of the top 5 most winningest teams in college football.

Old Dog
12-13-2010, 03:08 PM
The Big 10 is one of the best academic conferences and has 4 of the top 5 most winningest teams in college football.

Did you really just put "most winningest" in a post coupled with best academic?

I'm assuming you didn't actually attend one known for academia.

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 03:09 PM
Did you really just put "most winningest" in a post coupled with best academic?
I guess I should consider the source.

I don't go to a Big 10 school dipshit

MarcBulger
12-13-2010, 03:12 PM
I am really glad now Mizzou did not get asked to join the Big Ten.....Legends and Leaders...that is about as cheesy as it gets.....how about the HO and MO's

Reaper16
12-13-2010, 03:54 PM
BTW they named the divisions after my biceps. Merry Christmas
LMAO Yes! That's how you react to people riffing on that picture of you: own that shit. Well done.

Bob Dole
12-13-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't go to school, dipshit

FYP

Saulbadguy
12-13-2010, 04:07 PM
LMAO Yes! That's how you react to people riffing on that picture of you: own that shit. Well done.

Agreed. Top notch, billay.

Bugeater
12-13-2010, 04:10 PM
This is all a big joke, right? No way this is real.

blaise
12-13-2010, 04:16 PM
I read a tweet today that said, "So what if the BIG 10 named their divisions. The SEC schools used to give names to their water fountains."

Sully
12-13-2010, 04:16 PM
BTW they named the divisions after my biceps. Merry Christmas

The press release said "trophy," not "atrophy."

Iowanian
12-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Damn that is the ugliest logo ever.

You're right....It's a couple of lightening bolts and a gay song from making it a real barforama.

Al Bundy
12-13-2010, 05:58 PM
The logo/division names is kind of like my ex mother in law.... kinda stupid and kinda ugly.

GloryDayz
12-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Another option...

Spott
12-13-2010, 09:02 PM
That's pretty corny. I guess calling them east and west made too much sense.

Bugeater
12-13-2010, 10:00 PM
So where are the real division names and logo coming out?

Thig Lyfe
12-13-2010, 10:07 PM
So where are the real division names and logo coming out?

This is how I feel. No way they keep that shit when the public response has been utterly and overwhelmingly negative. Right?

Brock
12-13-2010, 10:08 PM
They have enough teams for 3 divisions. Dicks, pussies and assholes.

Pants
12-13-2010, 10:09 PM
They have enough teams for 3 divisions. Dicks, pussies and assholes.

Ahhh-aaameeeeeerr-rica....

tk13
12-13-2010, 10:09 PM
The ACC did alright with the Atlantic and Coastal divisions. Surely they could've come up with something better than that. "The Wolverine Division" and the "Buckeye Division would work.

tk13
12-13-2010, 10:12 PM
And did they really give two names to every trophy? What is up with that...

Pants
12-13-2010, 10:14 PM
You know when The Voice of Reason come into a thread and makes fun of something, it's not good.

B1G = FAIL.

Thig Lyfe
12-13-2010, 10:26 PM
Funky Division
Fresh Division

There. Fixed.

Sassy Squatch
12-13-2010, 10:29 PM
posted in another thread but here's your logo

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/campus-rivalry/2010/12/13/bigtenx-large.jpg
http://www.gifshare.com/uploads/images/20071024/full_size/7840_stewieguypuke.gif

Phobia
12-13-2010, 10:35 PM
The inferiority complex of Big 12 fans is amusing. Nowhere in the country are they mocking this change as hard as they are in Big 12 country. I'm not completely enamored with the names or the logo either but it's not quite the gaff Big 12 fans would have everyone believe.

alnorth
12-13-2010, 10:38 PM
The inferiority complex of Big 12 fans is amusing. Nowhere in the country are they mocking this change as hard as they are in Big 12 country. I'm not completely enamored with the names or the logo either but it's not quite the gaff Big 12 fans would have everyone believe.

bull, there was even a snarky article from Time magazine mocking the logo and division names. The laughter has been blowing up on twitter all over the country.

This isn't a midwestern thing, the Big 10 conference is the laughingstock of the country today.

Saul Good
12-13-2010, 10:39 PM
bull, there was even a snarky article from Time magazine mocking the logo and division names. The laughter has been blowing up on twitter all over the country.

This isn't a midwestern thing, the Big 10 conference is the laughingstock of the country today.

Wrong. Phobia reads every message board in the country.

ReynardMuldrake
12-13-2010, 10:48 PM
The press release said "trophy," not "atrophy."

LMAO

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 10:48 PM
You thought the division names and logo was bad you should see the names for the trophies.

Bambi
12-13-2010, 11:23 PM
The Big 10 is one of the best academic conferences and has 4 of the top 5 most winningest teams in college football.

And currently has a school that apparently has 39 positive drug tests amongst its players.

I love selective reasoning.

barry_smilez20
12-13-2010, 11:25 PM
college football sucked this year....who cares

barry_smilez20
12-13-2010, 11:28 PM
it better not take long to take back newtons hesiman

Bambi
12-13-2010, 11:30 PM
college football sucked this year....who cares

It's become such a novelty.

Names like "Legends" and "Leaders" and not evenly setting up a schedule like the new big 10 is doing makes college football less of a sport. It's really just a showcase of players at this point...

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 11:32 PM
And currently has a school that apparently has 39 positive drug tests amongst its players.

I love selective reasoning.

It's too bad we don't have selective breeding you wouldn't be around.


No KU players smoke weed.

Bambi
12-13-2010, 11:38 PM
It's too bad we don't have selective breeding you wouldn't be around.


No KU players smoke weed.

At least you won't have any issue with keeping criminals on your team.

I can't believe nebraska even keeps the trophies they won in the 90's after the trash that was on the teams was exposed.

What a fraud of a program. lol

Titty Meat
12-13-2010, 11:45 PM
At least you won't have any issue with keeping criminals on your team.

I can't believe nebraska even keeps the trophies they won in the 90's after the trash that was on the teams was exposed.

What a fraud of a program. lol

Yea those Nebraska teams in the 90s cheated remind me which school has had sanctions placed on them since lol Also if you want to look far enough the 2007 KU team cheated as well having tutors do Rush and Authurs HW.

Sam Hall
12-14-2010, 02:58 AM
This is much ado about nothing. No one has come up with better division names, except Plains and Great Lakes. The logo is very average, but people would have freaked out if it was radically changed.

Pushead2
12-14-2010, 06:20 AM
shits weak.....who cares, play some football bitches.

Michigan fan here BTW

alanm
12-14-2010, 01:16 PM
This is much ado about nothing. No one has come up with better division names, except Plains and Great Lakes. The logo is very average, but people would have freaked out if it was radically changed.How about East and West? :shrug:

chiefsfan987
12-14-2010, 01:42 PM
bull, there was even a snarky article from Time magazine mocking the logo and division names. The laughter has been blowing up on twitter all over the country.

This isn't a midwestern thing, the Big 10 conference is the laughingstock of the country today.

This. They're making fun of it out here on the west coast as well.

Zaiko
12-14-2010, 02:02 PM
Leaders and Legends sounds so gay, coupled with the big baby blue logo.

Better division names: Big And Slow.. Dumb and Dumber.

Great Expectations
12-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Here is an article from NBC Sports, clearly not a Big 12 affiliate:

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/13/big-ten-reveals-division-names-hilarity-ensues/

Bambi
12-14-2010, 03:06 PM
The novelty continues...

Oregon's championship game uniforms...





























http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/campus-rivalry/2010/12/14/oregonx-large.jpg

salame
12-14-2010, 03:06 PM
lol

Old Dog
12-14-2010, 03:13 PM
The novelty continues...

Oregon's championship game uniforms...


I thought it was pretty tame (for Oregon) until I got to the socks.....great googly moogly.

Bambi
12-14-2010, 03:20 PM
I thought it was pretty tame (for Oregon) until I got to the socks.....great googly moogly.

haha, me too. Took a second to load and I was like, eh uhhhh ohh!

LoneWolf
12-14-2010, 05:01 PM
How about East and West? :shrug:

What about spitters and swallowers?