Breaking: Phillies to Sign Cliff Lee

['Hamas' Jenkins]

All the NL Pennants are belong to them.

:(

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

That rotation is filthy

[Sassy Squatch]

That rotation of theirs just isn't fair...

[Buck]

Repost

[Sassy Squatch]

Repost
FUCK OFF, TROLL!!!!!!!!!1!!!!1111!!11!

[Hammock Parties]

So this is how a woman feels after a one night stand.

[DJ's left nut]

Well, at least now I'm not angry about us trading Brendan Ryan for a bag of used baseballs anymore.

We weren't winning anything with our half-assed ownership group anyway.

"C'mon, St. Louis faithful, Step right up and watch Albert and a bunch of scrubs! Maybe we won't win anything, but you'll get to watch an old legend like Lance Berkman stumble around in RF!"

I've never been less interested in a baseball season than this one.

[Stinger]

If the reports are true, Lee joins a stacked pitching rotation that already includes Roy Halladay and Roy Oswalt. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[tk13]

I would say the only thing that can stop them is injuries, but even then. If Lee or Halladay got hurt, they still might have the best rotation in baseball. If Oswalt and Hamels get hurt, they still might have the best pitching staff in baseball.

[DJ's left nut]

If the reports are true, Lee joins a stacked pitching rotation that already includes Roy Halladay and Roy Oswalt. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

And Cole Hamels.

[Rams Fan]

Well, at least now I'm not angry about us trading Brendan Ryan for a bag of used baseballs anymore.

We weren't winning anything with our half-assed ownership group anyway.

"C'mon, St. Louis faithful, Step right up and watch Albert and a bunch of scrubs! Maybe we won't win anything, but you'll get to watch an old legend like Lance Berkman stumble around in RF!"

I've never been less interested in a baseball season than this one.

:banghead: JJ Hardy was traded for 2 relievers. Not much else the Cards could have gotten. And you consider Holliday, Colby, Yadi, Waino and Carp scrubs?

[pr_capone]

FUCK.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCK IT ALL TO MOTHER FUCKING HELL.

I have never wanted the Yankmees to sign someone to a ridiculous contract as much as I do right now. Cliff lee going up against Atlanta sucks the donkey balls.

[Rams Fan]

At least the Cardinals aren't in the NL East.

[Thig Lyfe]

What does this do to Greinke's value? What if the Phillies traded for him to have the first ever five ace rotation?!!?

[Chiefburger]

Remember when free agents would refuse to play in Philly? God, I love this city and I love Lee. This has to be the best rotation in baseball history!

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

What does this do to Greinke's value? What if the Phillies traded for him to have the first ever five ace rotation?!!?


Bidding war FTW

[pr_capone]

Moore doing his old team a solid delivering Greinke to ATL in 5... 4... 3... 2...

[Discuss Thrower]

Phillies rotation to the league: I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.

[Rams Fan]

Moore doing his old team a solid delivering Greinke to ATL in 5... 4... 3... 2...

I doubt it...

[DJ's left nut]

:banghead: JJ Hardy was traded for 2 relievers. Not much else the Cards could have gotten. And you consider Holliday, Colby, Yadi, Waino and Carp scrubs?

You know what they could've done?

Not trade the best defensive SS in the NL. That was certainly an option. Then they could've put Theriot at 2b where he'd actually be an asset and Schumaker to...well who gives a shit, just get rid of him.

And just wait until Pujols gets his extension. Carp will be gone. Yadi might be gone and Colby's gone as soon as LaRussa gets an excuse to deal him.

Remember the McGwire years? I do, and they tended to center on getting Mac a chance to hit a few HRs here and there. DeWitt didn't care about winning ballgames, he just wanted the fans to come see the McGwire show. So our staff fell to hell, our lineup degenerated, and our bullpen was complete garbage. But who cares, right? McGwire circus!!!

Now coming to the center ring, Albert Pujols.

Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends...Come on see the show!!!!

[pr_capone]

I doubt it...

DON'T YOU CRUSH MY DREAMS!!!!

[Hootie]

Well, at least now I'm not angry about us trading Brendan Ryan for a bag of used baseballs anymore.

We weren't winning anything with our half-assed ownership group anyway.

"C'mon, St. Louis faithful, Step right up and watch Albert and a bunch of scrubs! Maybe we won't win anything, but you'll get to watch an old legend like Lance Berkman stumble around in RF!"

I've never been less interested in a baseball season than this one.

so you're a Lakers, Cardinals and Chiefs fan...

LMAO

[Rams Fan]

You know what they could've done?

Not trade the best defensive SS in the NL. That was certainly an option. Then they could've put Theriot at 2b where he'd actually be an asset and Schumaker to...well who gives a shit, just get rid of him.

And just wait until Pujols gets his extension. Carp will be gone. Yadi might be gone and Colby's gone as soon as LaRussa gets an excuse to deal him.

Remember the McGwire years? I do, and they tended to center on getting Mac a chance to hit a few HRs here and there. DeWitt didn't care about winning ballgames, he just wanted the fans to come see the McGwire show. So our staff fell to hell, our lineup degenerated, and our bullpen was complete garbage. But who cares, right? McGwire circus!!!

Now coming to the center ring, Albert Pujols.

Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends...Come on see the show!!!!
It's looking like 2009 could be an outlier year for Ryan. He didn't hit at all last year. Don't use his wrist as an excuse. Theriot is worse at 2B than he is at SS. I'd rather Descalso be at 2B instead of Skip, but I don't think the Cards are done yet. Mo's putting all of his chips into this season.

[DJ's left nut]

so you're a Lakers, Cardinals and Chiefs fan...

LMAO

And you're a pizza boy in his mid-20s that brags about the fact that he makes 40K and doesn't own a car.

Keep on chucklin' fuckstick.

[Hootie]

And you're a pizza boy in his mid-20s that brags about the fact that he makes 40K and doesn't own a car.

Keep on chucklin' ****stick.

ok brah

Blackhawks and Redwings fan too?

USC, Florida and Miami fan as well?

hahaha

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Why do Cardinals fans hijack every baseball thread on this web site?

[Hootie]

Why do Cardinals fans hijack every baseball thread on this web site?

you know the answer to that

when the Cardinals fans are OTWP, Hamas and DJ...

[pr_capone]

ok brah

Blackhawks and Redwings fan too?

USC, Florida and Miami fan as well?

hahaha

It's funny that he likes teams from multiple cities?

I'm an Atlanta Braves, KC Chiefs, NJ Devils, Kansas State, and if I HAD to pick a basketball team I'd prolly go with the Bulls, fan.

Not one single team plays in the same state as the other.

[DeezNutz]

Well a Cards fan started this thread, and it is about a NL pitcher. But don't worry, STL fans will cheer us when we leave the thread.

[DJ's left nut]

It's looking like 2009 could be an outlier year for Ryan. He didn't hit at all last year. Don't use his wrist as an excuse. Theriot is worse at 2B than he is at SS. I'd rather Descalso be at 2B instead of Skip, but I don't think the Cards are done yet. Mo's putting all of his chips into this season.

Why can't we use his wrist as an excuse? You know that hitters kinda need those to hit, right? That's probably the worst injury a hitter can suffer.

Or how about we discuss the fact that McGwire had him swinging from his heels? Look at his swing to start the season compared to what he used last year. McGwire absolutely butchered the kid's swing. Rather than hit down on the ball and spray to all fields, McGwire had him trying to drive the ball to left center, it was a horrid decision.

What about his 2007 season? He was a fine hitter that year as well. And even if he's not, there's no excuse for dealing a guy that plays SS like Brendan Ryan, especially not when you have assembled a groundball staff. He is probably the best defensive SS in baseball. Watch some of the plays the kid made up the middle or off his backhand. His range is absolutely phenominal.

Even last season he was seen as a WAR neutral player because of how many runs he saved with his glove. And we decided it was a good idea to obliterate his trade value by slandering the kid before we traded him.

[DJ's left nut]

ok brah

Blackhawks and Redwings fan too?

USC, Florida and Miami fan as well?

hahaha

Order up, big fella.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Tony LaRussa continually lets his personal like or dislike of players cloud his judgment. His arrogance costs this team 3-6 wins a year, IMO.

[Hootie]

It's funny that he likes teams from multiple cities?

I'm an Atlanta Braves, KC Chiefs, NJ Devils, Kansas State, and if I HAD to pick a basketball team I'd prolly go with the Bulls, fan.

Not one single team plays in the same state as the other.

just means you're a total douche bag fan...that's all

[KChiefs1]

2011 World Series:
Red Sox vs Phillies

[pr_capone]

just means you're a total douche bag fan...that's all

Why? Why does it mean that?

[DJ's left nut]

Tony LaRussa continually lets his personal like or dislike of players cloud his judgment. His arrogance costs this team 3-6 wins a year, IMO.

What - you don't think keeping Skip Schumaker at 2b while dumping Brendan Ryan was a baseball move?

Everyone that's watched baseball knows that a 2b with absolutely no range and no offensive value is vital to the success of a groundball staff...

[DJ's left nut]

Why? Why does it mean that?

Stop. Just stop.

Just look through the archives. Search "mom fucked the milkman" or something like that and you'll find this same discussion at least once.

Everytime he doesn't approve of the team you've chosen to root for, he points out that he rooted for the Bulls when Michael Jordan was there and doesn't give a shit about them now that Jordan's gone, so he's an awesome fan and you suck.

It's really not worth the trouble.

[Rams Fan]

Why? Why does it mean that?
He's saying that because most of the teams you listed won championships or were good in the 1990's....

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Back to the point at hand, though.

1) The Phillies now have the best lineup and starting rotation in the league. Dominic Brown will replace all of Werth's power numbers, even if he lacks his speed on the basepaths.

2) Hootie can't talk about anyone hijacking threads, or even contribute to a discussion about someone hijacking threads, in a derisive manner, ever. Every thread he posts in becomes a referendum on his attention whoring.

[Rams Fan]

Back to the point at hand, though.

1) The Phillies now have the best lineup and starting rotation in the league. Dominic Brown will replace all of Werth's power numbers, even if he lacks his speed on the basepaths.

2) Hootie can't talk about anyone hijacking threads, or even contribute to a discussion about someone hijacking threads, in a derisive manner, ever. Every thread he posts in becomes a referendum on his attention whoring.

Brown was having trouble in the AFL this year. They're still looking for a guy to maybe platoon with him in the OF.

[kcxiv]

The Giants are the only 3 that can compete with the PHillies 3, but Giants do NOT have that lineup.

Thats insane.

Good for Cliff Lee to tell the Yankee's to fuck off.

[Rams Fan]

The Giants are the only 3 that can compete with the PHillies 3, but Giants do NOT have that lineup.

Thats insane.

Good for Cliff Lee to tell the Yankee's to **** off.

What's the Giants 3? Lincecum and Cain? They have a good rotation, but not as solid as the Phillies. Hell, I think the Cardinals have a solid 3(Wainwright, Carpenter, Westbrook/Garcia).

[tk13]

Actually I think the Cardinals three, if they bring their A game, can definitely hold their own against the Phillies group. Only problem is the offense doesn't quite match up. But come playoff time, dominant pitching can rise above all else.

[kcxiv]

What's the Giants 3? Lincecum and Cain? They have a good rotation, but not as solid as the Phillies. Hell, I think the Cardinals have a solid 3(Wainwright, Carpenter, Westbrook/Garcia).

Madison Bumgarner
Dont forget that name. He was fucking amazing in the play offs this passed year.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Brown was having trouble in the AFL this year. They're still looking for a guy to maybe platoon with him in the OF.

I think you mean the Dominican League.

[Rams Fan]

Madison Bumgarner
Dont forget that name. He was ****ing amazing in the play offs this passed year.

I know who Bumgarner is(replaced the great Todd Wellemeyer in the rotation). Even then, Lincecum wasn't as dominant as he was in recent years Cardinals and Giants rotations are a like in many ways.

Right now, the NL rotations, IMO, are like so:

1.Phillies
2. Cardinals/Giants
3. Everyone else.

[kcxiv]

I know who Bumgarner is(replaced the great Todd Wellemeyer in the rotation). Even then, Lincecum wasn't as dominant as he was in recent years Cardinals and Giants rotations are a like in many ways.

Right now, the NL rotations, IMO, are like so:

1.Phillies
2. Cardinals/Giants
3. Everyone else.

I was just talking about play off roitations teams usually use 3 guys, even so, their 4th isnt to bad.

i Still think the Giants pitchers in the play offs can compete with the phillies, just not the line up.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

What's the Giants 3? Lincecum and Cain? They have a good rotation, but not as solid as the Phillies. Hell, I think the Cardinals have a solid 3(Wainwright, Carpenter, Westbrook/Garcia).

Uh, did you watch baseball at all this year? Are you aware that the Giants have four awesome starters? Or that they won the World Series?

[pr_capone]

He's saying that because most of the teams you listed won championships or were good in the 1990's....

Ah. If that is the case then he can go fuck himself.

I didn't know football or hockey even existed until I moved to Kansas. I followed the Chiefs and State because they were the local teams.

I follow the Devils because for all the years I played hockey I was either a defenseman or a goalie. What better combo to emulate than Brodeur, Stevens, & Neidermayer.

I started following the Braves when I moved to Atlanta in 1990. I used to watch them and listen to stories my step dad's parents would tell me about the team's history.

The Bulls I only followed because of Jordan. I haven't really given two flips about the NBA since then other than when the Sac Kings were playing incredible ball with Webber, Bibby, Divac, and that little white dude who thought he was playing an AND1 tourney.

Now that you know why I follow the teams that I do, can I pretty please have your approval Hootie?

[chief52]

I know who Bumgarner is(replaced the great Todd Wellemeyer in the rotation). Even then, Lincecum wasn't as dominant as he was in recent years Cardinals and Giants rotations are a like in many ways.

Right now, the NL rotations, IMO, are like so:

1.Phillies
2. Cardinals/Giants
3. Everyone else.

Until you knock the Giants off they have to be number one. I am a Dodger fan and say that. Cain maybe the most under rated pitcher out there.

Giants are number one right now. Who knows how the season goes, but they are clearly number one IMO.

I know what Philly has...

[Rams Fan]

Uh, did you watch baseball at all this year? Are you aware that the Giants have four awesome starters? Or that they won the World Series?

Their starters are completely different than the Phillies starters. The Phillies rotation is older than the Giants rotation. The Giants rotation has a core of Cain, Lincecum and Bumgarner. Sanchez and Zito are a solid 4 and 5. Except Sanchez can be inconsistent at times and Zito hasn't lived up to his contract at all.

[jd1020]

"Phillies 3"

WTF??

Has everyone forgot about Hamels? Ya he's not as good as the others but the dude is a very good #2 and hes going to be a #4 for this team...

[Rams Fan]

I was just talking about play off roitations teams usually use 3 guys, even so, their 4th isnt to bad.

i Still think the Giants pitchers in the play offs can compete with the phillies, just not the line up.

I can agree with that.

[DJ's left nut]

He's saying that because most of the teams you listed won championships or were good in the 1990's....

No, he's just being his standard idiot self.

Here, just read this:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=226672&highlight=peeler&page=12

He has another one around here somewhere else. He's decided that you can only root for teams where you live.

Nah, a kid born in 1981 that played shortstop for a decade with good glove but no power has no reason to root for the Cardinals...none. I mean I vaguely recall a fairly notable shorstop playing in STL during this time period, but I'm not certain. And when everyone in KC was wearing Royals gear after they beat the Cardinals in the WS? Yeah, I was clearly a bandwagoner since I rooted for the team that lost.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to root for the Blues or not. I mean, I grew up in KC and the Blades played there when I was growing up. So should I be a Sharks fan as they were their NHL parent club at the time?

Just so many confusing rules.

[Rams Fan]

"Phillies 3"

WTF??

Has everyone forgot about Hamels? Ya he's not as good as the others but the dude is a very good #2 and hes going to be a #4 for this team...

No one's forgotten him. In fact, I think he's better than Oswalt right now, but that's JMO.

[DJ's left nut]

"Phillies 3"

WTF??

Has everyone forgot about Hamels? Ya he's not as good as the others but the dude is a very good #2 and hes going to be a #4 for this team...

Hamels is probably better than Roy Oswalt when he's right.

The only real question is wehther or not the Phillies screwed him up by pitching him so hard as a youngster. He seemed to lose some zip on his fastball last season. With a changeup as his dominant out pitch, losing that umph on his heater can cause him some real problems.

[kcxiv]

lol, i cant attest to pitchers losing their fastball for playing to much. Jonathon Broxton's lost his damned fastball this passed year. Makes me sad, becuase the year before when his fastball was in the high 90's, guys didnt stand a chance at his slider. Slow the fastball down 5 mph and the Slider isnt shit. He only has 2 pitches.

[jd1020]

I actually love this signing. Being a Cubs fan, and Lee signing with the Phillies, maybe some teams will get desperate enough to take Z/Demp off our hands. Then we might have enough money to buy enough of Soriano's remaining contract to trade him, ofcourse if he voids his NTC. Oh the possibilities!!!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Broxton is another in the long line of Joe Torre relief casualties.

That said, his body type and throwing motion weren't meant for longevity. He was already starting to break down in 2009 (toe problems and the like).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I actually love this signing. Being a Cubs fan, and Lee signing with the Phillies, maybe some teams will get desperate enough to take Z/Demp off our hands. Then we might have enough money to buy enough of Soriano's remaining contract to trade him, ofcourse if he voids his NTC. Oh the possibilities!!!

No one is desperate enough to take a 7th starter making 18 million a year who says he's going to retire in 2012.

[jd1020]

No one is desperate enough to take a 7th starter making 18 million a year who says he's going to retire in 2012.

I wouldn't put it passed the Yankees.

[DJ's left nut]

I wouldn't put it passed the Yankees.

Go ahead and put it past the Yankees.

Seriously - you guys are stuck with him. And Soriano. And Fukudome. And Ramirez.

Why do people continue to pay Jim Hendry to make baseball decisions?

[BIG_DADDY]

**** Cliff Lee, I was really hoping he would stay with the Rangers. That being said at least he didn't go to the Yankmee's. I hate the East Coast buy every best player thing baseball has become. I gotta tell you though, it made that much cooler to see the Giants win it all. GO GIANTS!!!

[DJ's left nut]

HUGE NEWS!!!

The Cardinals signed Gerald Laird!

To the 'ship!

http://www.go-sail.co.uk/gallery/cap4sm.jpg

[jd1020]

Go ahead and put it past the Yankees.

Seriously - you guys are stuck with him. And Soriano. And Fukudome. And Ramirez.

Why do people continue to pay Jim Hendry to make baseball decisions?

I've been asking myself that for a long time now. I can just hope the Cubs are so bad this year that 1) Ricketts goes bankrupt. 2) He sells the team to Cuban. 3) Cuban fires the entire upper management and starts over. 4) He opens his wallet and dumps the anchor weights holding the team down. But since the Cub fans wear blinders I fully expect Wrigley to be sold out every home game. Besides... MLB has put a cock block on a passionate owner that actually thinks of winning instead of just as being an investment.

The salt in the wound is that Ramirez no longer has a NTC, but because he was signed for so damn long he is now a 10/5.

[DJ's left nut]

Ramirez is entering his 8th full season with the Cubs?!?!?

Jesus I'm old...

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Can somebody tell me if the astros are relevent again? I'm fairweather

[Chiefburger]

Hamels is probably better than Roy Oswalt when he's right.

The only real question is wehther or not the Phillies screwed him up by pitching him so hard as a youngster. He seemed to lose some zip on his fastball last season. With a changeup as his dominant out pitch, losing that umph on his heater can cause him some real problems.

A good Hamels is better than a good Oswalt but when did his velocity drop? Hamels was hitting 94 consistently.

[pr_capone]

Can somebody tell me if the astros are relevent again? I'm fairweather

Check back in a couple of years.

[Hootie]

Hamels was a stud last year...two years ago was when his velocity dropped off a bit.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Check back in a couple of years.

Will do. I figured they might have some decent prospects from the trades, but their farm system has been awful. Don't like the DeShields pick....but i don't know shit.

[-King-]

So basically...even more reason to not watch baseball huh?

[MIAdragon]

Love this btw.

[beach tribe]

Remember when free agents would refuse to play in Philly? God, I love this city and I love Lee. This has to be the best rotation in baseball history!

I didn't even know Camden, NJ had a team.

[MIAdragon]

I didn't even know Camden, NJ had a team.

The shithole swath is rather large up there, don't fault him it's rather confusing.

[Simply Red]

i hate to see this.

[The Bad Guy]

Back to the point at hand, though.

1) The Phillies now have the best lineup and starting rotation in the league. Dominic Brown will replace all of Werth's power numbers, even if he lacks his speed on the basepaths.

2) Hootie can't talk about anyone hijacking threads, or even contribute to a discussion about someone hijacking threads, in a derisive manner, ever. Every thread he posts in becomes a referendum on his attention whoring.

They want to keep Brown in AAA this year from what I read last week. I really don't think their lineup is all that great to be honest. Rollins has fallen apart, Utley misses huge chunks of seasons each year and Howard had his lowest OBP in his career last year. Victorino is a decent role guy, the catcher can't hit and they likely are looking at a broken down Ibanez and a never was in Ben Franscico roaming the corner OF spots.

The rotatlon is all world, but not the best ever (like moron Phillie fans want to proclaim). Their undoing will be the lineup having major holes and the bullpen (on nights they are needed) being far from dominant.

[chiefsfan987]

**** Cliff Lee, I was really hoping he would stay with the Rangers. That being said at least he didn't go to the Yankmee's. I hate the East Coast buy every best player thing baseball has become. I gotta tell you though, it made that much cooler to see the Giants win it all. GO GIANTS!!!

When he came out here to Seattle he made it very clear he didn't want to play for the M's and that he wanted to go back to the Phillies so its not really a suprise to me that he ended up back in Philadelphia.

[Molitoth]

YAY! Any team but the Yankees.

[JD10367]

As a Red Sox fan, the offseason just keeps getting better and better. ROFL Yankees end up jilted at the alter for EVERYONE. :D

Rumor has it that the Sox want Joe Blanton from Philly. He's their 5th starter making a ton of dough. In Boston, he'd probably replace a 5th starter making even MORE dough (Daisuke). I think Blanton's on the books for $10M but Daisuke's on the books for $12M or something like that. Daisuke has huge value for Seattle, what with Ichiro and the Japanese marketing dollars; Daisuke would probably okay a trade to the Mariners because it's closer to home and he'd get to play with Ichiro. Win-win for everyone; Sox get Blanton from Philly, Philly reduces payroll for that 5th starter, Seattle gets Daisuke and makes tons of dough from marketing, Sox get middle relief back from Seattle, and the Yankees are left holding their dicks. LMAO

[The Bad Guy]

Blanton is terrible. He'd get eaten alive in the AL East.

[MIAdragon]

Blanton is terrible. He'd get eaten alive in the AL East.

His numbers are not that bad, however who knows how he will do in the east.

[JD10367]

Blanton is terrible. He'd get eaten alive in the AL East.

Yes, but he'll be less terrible and less expensive than Daisuke so, if the Sox can get middle relief from Seattle, it's still a smart deal for them. Don't forget, we're talking 5th starter here, not top-of-the-rotation...

[Ivory Hunter]

They want to keep Brown in AAA this year from what I read last week.

I doubt that decision has been made.

Nobody is going to care come spring training that Brown went 2-for-29 in winter ball.

His performance in the Grapefruit League will determine whether Brown starts at Triple-A or on the 25-man roster.

[BIG_DADDY]

When he came out here to Seattle he made it very clear he didn't want to play for the M's and that he wanted to go back to the Phillies so its not really a suprise to me that he ended up back in Philadelphia.

I haven't had a chance to look but somebody told me he took a lot less money to go back too. If true that's rare these days.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

They want to keep Brown in AAA this year from what I read last week. I really don't think their lineup is all that great to be honest. Rollins has fallen apart, Utley misses huge chunks of seasons each year and Howard had his lowest OBP in his career last year. Victorino is a decent role guy, the catcher can't hit and they likely are looking at a broken down Ibanez and a never was in Ben Franscico roaming the corner OF spots.

The rotatlon is all world, but not the best ever (like moron Phillie fans want to proclaim). Their undoing will be the lineup having major holes and the bullpen (on nights they are needed) being far from dominant.

Howard's slugging was down last year, not his OBP, Utley has missed more than 15 games two times in his career (and last year was coming off of hip surgery), and Victorino is an all star. Couple that with an above average hitting catcher in Ruiz, and Polanco, and that's still a very potent lineup.

Generally teams want to undersell their prospects before ST so they don't press too much. Brown will most likely take at least 400 ABs for that team, with Francisco taking the remainder.

[Buck]

What a fucking failure of a season by the Phillies.

[tk13]

What a ****ing failure of a season by the Phillies.

Don't worry, they still have the dream team in football, too.

[chefsos]

Phils don't make the playoffs in 2012. Crazy? Lookee:

2008 Win WS
2009 Lose WS
2010 Lose NLCS
2011 Lose NLDS

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

[Frazod]

So, is Philadelphia in flames yet? I sure hope so. :fire:

[Discuss Thrower]

Phils don't make the playoffs in 2012. Crazy? Lookee:

2008 Win WS
2009 Lose WS
2010 Lose NLCS
2011 Lose NLDS

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

Is Norv Turner managing the team or something?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Phillies, Spankees, and Red Sox all out before the LCS Fuck Yeah :clap:

[KC_Connection]

They want to keep Brown in AAA this year from what I read last week. I really don't think their lineup is all that great to be honest. Rollins has fallen apart, Utley misses huge chunks of seasons each year and Howard had his lowest OBP in his career last year. Victorino is a decent role guy, the catcher can't hit and they likely are looking at a broken down Ibanez and a never was in Ben Franscico roaming the corner OF spots.

The rotatlon is all world, but not the best ever (like moron Phillie fans want to proclaim). Their undoing will be the lineup having major holes and the bullpen (on nights they are needed) being far from dominant.
And the lineup was most certainly their undoing despite adding Pence. The Phillies made a huge mistake in continuing to go with Ibanez over Dominic Brown all season, IMO. They didn't even go with a better hitter in Mayberry during the playoffs, either.

[The Bad Guy]

And the lineup was most certainly their undoing despite adding Pence. The Phillies made a huge mistake in continuing to go with Ibanez over Dominic Brown all season, IMO. They didn't even go with a better hitter in Mayberry during the playoffs, either.

Yep. Turned out to be right.

Howard may have torn his achillies, and Utley is always banged up.

They have literally no money to spend either.

They better hope Brown and all the AAA guys are ready to go or it's going to be much of the same next year.