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Chiefnj2
12-14-2010, 10:01 AM
I think everyone would be in agreement that a Center is near the top of KC's draft needs. Although not a glamorous early pick, based on recent draft years it looks like you have to take a center early (1st or 2nd round) if you want a starting center. In my notes 'no impact' means not a starting CENTER. I looked at the first 4 or 5 centers drafted from 2010-2006 drafts (last 5 years):

1st rounders playing well and making an impact - Pouncey, Mack and Mangold.
1st round centers no impact at the position - Wood (moved to guard on draft day, injuries).
- 75% success rate.

2nd round centers playing well and making an impact - Kalil and Satele
2nd round picks no impact at the position - Unger (G, IR), Pollak (G, inj), Cook (G), Chester (G).
- twice as many 2nd round collegiate centers were moved to guard and have limited impact except for Chester.

3rd round starting at Center - JD Walton (Denver)
3rd round no impact - Caldwell (backup), Spitz (backup).

4th round playing well - none
4th round no impact - Lugis (not in NFL), Wallace (backup), Lichtenstein (G), Harris (G).

5th and 6th round impact - Sullivan
5th and 6th no impact - Tennant (although too early to tell), Ingram (out of nfl), Fry (cut).

spanky 52
12-14-2010, 01:37 PM
I've been hoping they'd draft a C for several years now. Not sure who will be available in FA but Wisniewski will be a late lst rounder and Kirkpatrick will be an early to middle second rounder based on what I've seen in player evaluations. There are several who will go 3 & 4th round but will they be able to start early? C & RT are still big liabilities for a team that wants to run first.

Wouldn't be unhappy with Wisniewski in the first but keep thinking Pioli will go after a pass rushing OLB or DE. Keep hoping that Harris is being worked at C while on the practice squad.

raybec 4
12-14-2010, 04:04 PM
I hope to holy rollin jeezus they'd take a linebacker or a wideout in the first round and not a center.

okiedokieokoye
12-16-2010, 05:17 PM
I wouldn't be unhappy with a center in the 3rd. What about Brewster? Or do you not think he'll declare?

Direckshun
12-16-2010, 11:45 PM
Drafting a center is unnecessary this year.

We need to draft positions that we desperately need development at, like WR or OLB or NT.

Wiegmann can hold the fort for another year.

Bewbies
12-17-2010, 12:17 AM
I wonder what the breakdowns would be at all positions for players drafted in the 1st round compared to others. I bet it's similar, where 1st round picks are more often impact players than players taken later?

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2010, 03:00 PM
3rd round starting at Center - JD Walton (Denver)
3rd round no impact - Caldwell (backup), Spitz (backup).


Caldwell was moved to guard.

kcchiefsus
12-22-2010, 11:09 PM
Drafting a center is unnecessary this year.

We need to draft positions that we desperately need development at, like WR or OLB or NT.

Wiegmann can hold the fort for another year.

It's because he can hold the fort for another year that you draft somebody this year. That way we have somebody with a little seasoning once Wiegmann steps down.

spanky 52
12-23-2010, 01:19 PM
It's because he can hold the fort for another year that you draft somebody this year. That way we have somebody with a little seasoning once Wiegmann steps down.

Absolutely. I'm not so sure Weigman will play another year. He's been much better this year than Niswanger has been in the past. I am concerned the way he was manhandled by SD and Oak. Don't think there are going to be any quality centers in free agency either.

gonefishin53
12-24-2010, 09:15 PM
Absolutely. I'm not so sure Weigman will play another year. He's been much better this year than Niswanger has been in the past. I am concerned the way he was manhandled by SD and Oak. Don't think there are going to be any quality centers in free agency either.

Although they're not multi year pro bowlers, I think Lyle Sendlein (Arizona), Samson Satele (Oakland), and Chris Spencer (Seattle) are in their prime years and would be upgrades at a position of need. Sendlein has a Haley connection and Satele would weaken a division foe. Spencer and Sendlein might jump at the chance to escape sinking ships.

spanky 52
12-25-2010, 06:35 AM
Although they're not multi year pro bowlers, I think Lyle Sendlein (Arizona), Samson Satele (Oakland), and Chris Spencer (Seattle) are in their prime years and would be upgrades at a position of need. Sendlein has a Haley connection and Satele would weaken a division foe. Spencer and Sendlein might jump at the chance to escape sinking ships.

Welcome to the CP gonefishin53. Assuming we draft somewhere in the low to mid 20's, players like C Wisniewski, ROT Carimi, OLB Houston, WR Baldwin will be available. If they don't sign a center in FA they'll have to draft one. The pass rush leaves much to be desired so someone like Houston would be a good pick to replace Vrabel. But the strength of the Chief's offense is in the rushing of Charles and Jones so I'd think an upgrade at C and ROT would be high on their want list.

I hope we make the playoff's but if we don't it's been a much better year to be a Chief's fan.

gonefishin53
12-25-2010, 04:40 PM
Welcome to the CP gonefishin53. Assuming we draft somewhere in the low to mid 20's, players like C Wisniewski, ROT Carimi, OLB Houston, WR Baldwin will be available. If they don't sign a center in FA they'll have to draft one. The pass rush leaves much to be desired so someone like Houston would be a good pick to replace Vrabel. But the strength of the Chief's offense is in the rushing of Charles and Jones so I'd think an upgrade at C and ROT would be high on their want list.

I hope we make the playoff's but if we don't it's been a much better year to be a Chief's fan.

With a proven management team, a highly respected coaching staff, and a first class game day atmosphere at Arrowhead stadium, I think the Chiefs are well positioned to market the club to under the radar free agents entering their prime years. Upgrading 3 or 4 positions with good prospects without paying multi year pro bowl prices would allow more flexibility on draft day.

In addition to the free agent centers I listed earlier, NT's Paul Soliai (Miami) and Brandon Mebane (Seattle), ILB's Barrett Ruud (Tampa Bay), Desmond Bishop (Green Bay), and Kevin Burnett (San Diego), and WR's Mike Sims-Walker (Jacksonville), Ben Obomanu (Seattle), and James Jones (Green Bay) are in the 26-28 age range and appear set to enjoy 4-5 years as productive nfl players.

Saccopoo
12-27-2010, 11:47 AM
Drafting a center is unnecessary this year.

We need to draft positions that we desperately need development at, like WR or OLB or NT.

Wiegmann can hold the fort for another year.

The problem with this concept is that Wiegmann, while deserving of a Pro Bowl bid for his superb 2010 season, is 38 years old. That's really freaking old in football terms and a body that old in football is prone to injury substantially more than a younger body.

Secondly, Niswanger is all but worthless as an NFL center. I had hopes for him, but he's never been able to hold the point of attack against NFL defensive tackles. The guy is a turnstile.

The Chiefs NEED to draft a true quality center in this next draft for depth on the offensive line and to groom Wiegmann's replacement. Get the guy in the system and get him understanding what is required at this level.

I don't think that you need to spend a first rounder on one unless it's a guy like Alex Mack, which there isn't in this draft. Quality players like Baxter from Arizona or Taylor from Utah will be available in the 4th/5th round.

philfree
12-30-2010, 02:22 PM
So no mention of Mike Pouncey?


PhilFree:arrow:

ChiefGator
12-30-2010, 05:01 PM
So no mention of Mike Pouncey?


PhilFree:arrow:

We need a center, not a guard.

philfree
12-30-2010, 06:38 PM
We need a center, not a guard.

I know that he's been playing guard but both Mel Kiper and Scouts Inc have him listed as a center. He seems like a player Pioli would draft.


PhilFree:arrow:

ChiefGator
12-31-2010, 07:32 AM
I know that he's been playing guard but both Mel Kiper and Scouts Inc have him listed as a center. He seems like a player Pioli would draft.


PhilFree:arrow:

They are both high. He played as a center this year, but was terrible with the shotgun snaps. Absolutely horrid. He would be a project at center that just may not ever pan out. Now, granted, he had to deal with the dumbassery of Steve Addazio, but I would be surprised if the team that drafts him does not try to use him at guard instead.

He has potential to be a great guard though.

salame
12-31-2010, 09:36 AM
I think it's funny people freak out about RT in 1st round but a center is ok

ChiefGator
12-31-2010, 09:43 AM
I think it's funny people freak out about RT in 1st round but a center is ok

I think where we are drafting damn near any spot except for FB (apologies to the annual full back-pimpers), K, and P is fair game.

If there is a RT or center that can play at a very high level (not necessarily pro-bowls, but just a very high level) available at the bottom of the 1st... I think you can take him, unless you are already set for the next 4-5 years at that position, if he is the best available player on your board.

salame
12-31-2010, 09:51 AM
where we are at is the perfect spot to just take BAP period
it's how san diego has stayed good
they always draft BAP

spanky 52
01-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Center and RT should be addressed early in the draft and or free agency. Cassel is the QB for the unforeseeable future. They'd better protect his ass. It's amazing he didn't get hurt yesterday.

ChiefGator
01-04-2011, 05:49 AM
Center and RT should be addressed early in the draft and or free agency. Cassel is the QB for the unforeseeable future. They'd better protect his ass. It's amazing he didn't get hurt yesterday.

Agreed..

And on a side note.. Pouncey screwed up another snap or two in the game last weekend.

Chiefnj2
01-05-2011, 10:03 AM
RT looks like it will be a much better value over C at the end of the 1st.

Bewbies
01-05-2011, 12:06 PM
RT looks like it will be a much better value over C at the end of the 1st.

Pass. There should be some elite talent at WR, OLB and maybe even NT there.

ChiefGator
01-05-2011, 03:40 PM
Pass. There should be some elite talent at WR, OLB and maybe even NT there.

I think Pioli will focus on the o-line. And rightfully so. Our defense has been just fine. In most categories we are in the top ten, and at least the top half of the league. And we are still a young team.

There have been times, and games, that we have been abused up the middle against our offensive line. And Weigman and Waters are both getting up and years. (Weigmann's gone anyway). Also, I think Pioli focuses on the division, and winning that, and obviously the Raiders match up poorly (for us) against our line. And that is something that will need to be addressed.

Obviously, we are going to dip into free agency for some players, but , realistically, we need a new center, new guard, and perhaps a new right tackle.

WR is more of a need, IMO, than OLB, which is more of a need than the "true NT" that everyone seems to keep dreaming of.

kcchiefsus
01-05-2011, 06:48 PM
I think Pioli will focus on the o-line. And rightfully so. Our defense has been just fine. In most categories we are in the top ten, and at least the top half of the league. And we are still a young team.

There have been times, and games, that we have been abused up the middle against our offensive line. And Weigman and Waters are both getting up and years. (Weigmann's gone anyway). Also, I think Pioli focuses on the division, and winning that, and obviously the Raiders match up poorly (for us) against our line. And that is something that will need to be addressed.

Obviously, we are going to dip into free agency for some players, but , realistically, we need a new center, new guard, and perhaps a new right tackle.

WR is more of a need, IMO, than OLB, which is more of a need than the "true NT" that everyone seems to keep dreaming of.

How is a "true NT" not a need? Ron Edwards simply is not cutting it. I've seen him repeatedly getting blown off the LOS by average centers. Hali and Studebaker at OLB is at least serviceable, and we have Cameron Sheffield hopefully coming back. We can find an OLB in the middle rounds.

Bewbies
01-05-2011, 11:28 PM
I think Pioli will focus on the o-line. And rightfully so. Our defense has been just fine. In most categories we are in the top ten, and at least the top half of the league. And we are still a young team.

There have been times, and games, that we have been abused up the middle against our offensive line. And Weigman and Waters are both getting up and years. (Weigmann's gone anyway). Also, I think Pioli focuses on the division, and winning that, and obviously the Raiders match up poorly (for us) against our line. And that is something that will need to be addressed.

Obviously, we are going to dip into free agency for some players, but , realistically, we need a new center, new guard, and perhaps a new right tackle.

WR is more of a need, IMO, than OLB, which is more of a need than the "true NT" that everyone seems to keep dreaming of.

The first round is where the freaks of nature, the projected difference makers are drafted. We absolutely need a another OLB, WR and NT. If we had someone across from Hali who was a stud, and an actual NT our D would be top 3-5 in the league.

We go over this every year, some folks just think the way you build a team is having 5 1st round picks on your o-line.

aturnis
01-06-2011, 04:10 AM
I agree with Bewbies... The pass rush is second only to a quality/stud QB. It's not arguable that QB is the most important part of any team. The second most important part would logically be taking the other teams QB out of the game. Tamba has been a stud all by himself, now imagine if there were a stud on the other side of the line to herd the QB his way more often and clean up his garbage. How many times has the QB JUST slipped out of Hali's grasp? Especially last year. If half that number could be picked up by someone else, it'd be huge. Especially with this young talented crop of defensive backs.

gonefishin53
01-06-2011, 01:03 PM
Because next years schedule appears to be more difficult than this years, some critical positions will probably have to be filled by free agents instead of draft picks if the Chief's management dreams of winning another division title. I would count center as a position where only the exceptional rookie can effectively upgrade the position.

I can't help thinking that Wiegmann was signed for one year because Haley/Pioli believed C Lyle Sendlien, Arizona, would be available as a 2011 free agent, knows Haley's offense, and led Haley's OL for Arizona's SB run.

I think Haley would have more faith in Sendlien leading his OL against a schedule loaded with playoff quality opponents than some untested rookie.

Chiefnj2
01-07-2011, 08:18 AM
Pass. There should be some elite talent at WR, OLB and maybe even NT there.

You draft the player, not the position.

Bewbies
01-07-2011, 01:43 PM
You draft the player, not the position.

You said RT would be better value over C at the end of the 1st. I was responding to that. LMAO

ChiefGator
01-08-2011, 01:33 PM
I can't help thinking that Wiegmann was signed for one year because Haley/Pioli believed C Lyle Sendlien, Arizona, would be available as a 2011 free agent, knows Haley's offense, and led Haley's OL for Arizona's SB run.

I think Haley would have more faith in Sendlien leading his OL against a schedule loaded with playoff quality opponents than some untested rookie.

Dude, Arizona can't run up the middle to save their life. He is not the answer in a more physical AFC West.

ChiefGator
01-08-2011, 01:44 PM
We go over this every year, some folks just think the way you build a team is having 5 1st round picks on your o-line.

Where we are picking, any spot on the o-line is fine. I do not believe you need five 1st round picks on the o-line. I do believe, however, that we have alot of holes on the O-line. How would you rate their performances, especially against the AFC West, where each team blew us out once?

Our best lineman MAY be Albert at LT.
Waters is old and certainly did not deserve a pro-bowl for his performance
Weigmann gets weaker and lighter as the season goes along, is old, and not under contract
Lilja was an upgrade over what we had before, but is still not the answer
Neither right tackle ever looked good... at best they were passable

You could legitimately argue that we need to upgrade four spots on the line.

If the best available player is internal o-line, you thank your lucky stars and grab him.

spanky 52
01-08-2011, 02:21 PM
Where we are picking, any spot on the o-line is fine. I do not believe you need five 1st round picks on the o-line. I do believe, however, that we have alot of holes on the O-line. How would you rate their performances, especially against the AFC West, where each team blew us out once?

Our best lineman MAY be Albert at LT.
Waters is old and certainly did not deserve a pro-bowl for his performance
Weigmann gets weaker and lighter as the season goes along, is old, and not under contract
Lilja was an upgrade over what we had before, but is still not the answer
Neither right tackle ever looked good... at best they were passable

You could legitimately argue that we need to upgrade four spots on the line.

If the best available player is internal o-line, you thank your lucky stars and grab him.

I agree wholeheartedly. I realize we need to draft the BPA and I think this year BPA and a need of the Chiefs come together in either a C or ROT.

kcchiefsus
01-08-2011, 11:46 PM
Dude, Arizona can't run up the middle to save their life. He is not the answer in a more physical AFC West.

This isn't saying much, but I remember seeing him blowing Ron Edwards off the ball several times. I'm not sure if that says more about him or Edwards.

kcchiefsus
01-08-2011, 11:47 PM
Where we are picking, any spot on the o-line is fine. I do not believe you need five 1st round picks on the o-line. I do believe, however, that we have alot of holes on the O-line. How would you rate their performances, especially against the AFC West, where each team blew us out once?

Our best lineman MAY be Albert at LT.
Waters is old and certainly did not deserve a pro-bowl for his performance
Weigmann gets weaker and lighter as the season goes along, is old, and not under contract
Lilja was an upgrade over what we had before, but is still not the answer
Neither right tackle ever looked good... at best they were passable

You could legitimately argue that we need to upgrade four spots on the line.

If the best available player is internal o-line, you thank your lucky stars and grab him.

Well I'm pretty damn sure Asamoah is one of the future upgrades.

ChiefGator
01-09-2011, 06:57 AM
Well I'm pretty damn sure Asamoah is one of the future upgrades.

I sure hope so... and all the draftniks were very high on him. Hopefully that translates to the football field for us. And it would be good to pull some lucky break and have someone like Colin Brown turn out to be decent in the middle.

I had high hopes for Richardson, and actually loved the fire he showed pushing a coach on the sideline because he wanted to play. It just does not seem to be consistently getting together for him.

Vesebeads
01-09-2011, 08:18 AM
I meet a girl , she was in a relation, after few months , she broke whit his fucking boyfriend , to night at last I`ll going to to dance whit her, we speak by phone, all right, after half hour she call me, … and said ….Hey Im sorry Im whit my ex boyfriend, tomorrow I will talk whit you , now Im lonely im my room thinking that she is whit her fucking boyfriend in her apartment , fucking life , fucking life , fucking life, damned life , i hate my life

Saccopoo
01-09-2011, 03:19 PM
I meet a girl , she was in a relation, after few months , she broke whit his ****ing boyfriend , to night at last I`ll going to to dance whit her, we speak by phone, all right, after half hour she call me, … and said ….Hey Im sorry Im whit my ex boyfriend, tomorrow I will talk whit you , now Im lonely im my room thinking that she is whit her ****ing boyfriend in her apartment , ****ing life , ****ing life , ****ing life, damned life , i hate my life

You know, typing out "whit" takes the exact amount of time and effort as typing out "with."

Perhaps her boyfriend shows a higher degree of literacy than you (although, I'm pretty sure a drunk monkey would show a higher degree of literacy than you), and she is attracted to people who actually know how to spell words correctly.

But if you're feeling a bit melancholy because you got jilted, a nice cocktail might help you spruce right up...

http://www.labsafety.com/images/xl/Ultra-CLOROX-Bleach-LSS-_i_LB2052_01Z.jpg

salame
01-10-2011, 04:26 PM
I sure hope so... and all the draftniks were very high on him. Hopefully that translates to the football field for us. And it would be good to pull some lucky break and have someone like Colin Brown turn out to be decent in the middle.

I had high hopes for Richardson, and actually loved the fire he showed pushing a coach on the sideline because he wanted to play. It just does not seem to be consistently getting together for him.

you know colin brown is on the buffalo bills now right?

ChiefGator
01-11-2011, 07:04 AM
you know colin brown is on the buffalo bills now right?

Seriously? I didn't know that. I thought he was sitting on our bench, or hopefully in the weight room.

So the only young interior O-Lineman we have are Niswanger (fail), Asamoah, and Darryl Harris from the practice squad? We are even worse on the line that I realized.

We need to come out of the offseason with several new lineman, including RT and C.

Chris Meck
01-12-2011, 11:08 AM
Drafting a center is unnecessary this year.

We need to draft positions that we desperately need development at, like WR or OLB or NT.

Wiegmann can hold the fort for another year.

No, Wiegmann really can't. There's a reason why we could never pick up one friggin' yard on 3rd or 4th and short all season long-Casey's just too small to hold up at the point of attack.

I'm not saying we draft a C in the first, but between the draft and FA, we MUST address this problem.

patteeu
01-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Drafting a center is unnecessary this year.

We need to draft positions that we desperately need development at, like WR or OLB or NT.

Wiegmann can hold the fort for another year.

You need to fill the pipeline for offensive line players in advance unless you're planning on spending very high picks for a just-in-time replacements.

Chiefnj2
01-12-2011, 11:46 AM
It's not a good year for centers. Wisnewski is probably the only 1st round graded center this year, if lucky.

KC would have to get pretty lucky to find an immediate starter this year. They will likely have to grab a 4th-6th round center and rely on a free agent for 2011.