Zack Greinke has asked the Royals to trade him

[alnorth]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Zack-Greinke-asks-Kansas-City-Royals-for-trade-fires-agent-121710

Zack Greinke wants to be traded, and the Kansas City Royals intend to grant his wish.

Greinke fired his agent on Friday, the clearest indication yet of the ace right-hander’s desire to be sent to another club.

After Greinke switched representation from SFX Baseball to CAA, a high-ranking executive from another team told FOXSports.com, “He really wants out of K.C.” Separate major-league sources confirmed that Greinke has unequivocally asked the Royals to be traded.

Royals general manager Dayton Moore declined comment. But sources say the Royals, believing Greinke will pitch better in 2011 if he joins a team with a stronger chance to win right away, have discussed trade possibilities with numerous suitors.

I figure this is big enough for its own thread.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Why would you want to be traded from a team that just acquired Jeff Franceour and Melky Cabrera? What an idiot.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I expect the Royals to make a playoff run.























In 2152

[Bane]

I expect the Royals to make a playoff run.























In 2152

Hahahahahahahaha!
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

Before any of the "can't say I blame him" bullshit gets tossed around, let me say up front that Greinke better keep his ****ing mouth shut throughout this process.

The Royals (and Baird specifically) gave this dude the room and respect to try to fit himself to a John Deere down in Florida. The least he can do in return is play the role of the good soldier and not do anything that could negatively affect the return for the club.

He hasn't so far. I'm just sayin...

(because something this right needs to be posted in two locations)

[alnorth]

well, unless we have at least 2 or 3 teams who really want him badly that we can play off each other, we probably need to lower our expectations. Greinke may have shot his trade value to hell. We should no longer expect a "kings ransom" where we "win decisively".

I now merely want a fair deal.

Keeping Zack at this point is NOT an option because knowing him, he could sit out or at least mope around enough to make sure he's nowhere close to a type A free agent in 2012.

[Sure-Oz]

well, unless we have at least 2 or 3 teams who really want him badly that we can play off each other, we probably need to lower our expectations. Greinke may have shot his trade value to hell. We should no longer expect a "kings ransom" where we "win decisively".

I now merely want a fair deal.

Keeping Zack at this point is NOT an option because knowing him, he could sit out or at least mope around enough to make sure he's nowhere close to a type A free agent in 2012.

I agree, he'll be gone soon

[Fairplay]

It's just the way the business is nothing personel.

[GloryDayz]

Can he throw a football?

[Fish]

This sucks.

[GloryDayz]

This sucks.

Yeah, there go my two trips the the K every year!

[kcchiefsus]

Ship him off to New York and let the New York media rip him apart. Let's see him handle that pressure, fucking douchebag.

[kcchiefsus]

I should also note, I would love to see us trade him to a team that does not live up to expectations and then for our young "stars" live up to expectations and we become a playoff team. One can only hope.

[2112]

Ship him off to New York and let the New York media rip him apart. Let's see him handle that pressure, ****ing douchebag.

Let him go to the Mets. he would last about 1 week with the Yankees before folding into the fetal position.

[alnorth]

I would have had no problem with it AT ALL if Zack would have simply told Moore and no one else. There's no reason for the Royals to leak this, none at all. No one else needed to freaking know. Yes this now makes it more likely that you would be traded for anything we can get now, but come on, at least give us time to make people sweat and think maybe we wont trade.

[nychief]

well, unless we have at least 2 or 3 teams who really want him badly that we can play off each other, we probably need to lower our expectations. Greinke may have shot his trade value to hell. We should no longer expect a "kings ransom" where we "win decisively".

I now merely want a fair deal.

Keeping Zack at this point is NOT an option because knowing him, he could sit out or at least mope around enough to make sure he's nowhere close to a type A free agent in 2012.


He is under contract for TWO more seasons...he can request a trade every day and twice on sunday... but there isn't jack he can do. He can't sit out... and if he mopes around and pitches shitty...he isn't getting his next contract.

[Pioli Zombie]

I was thinking of who the Red Sox should offer and then I remembered Zacks "issues". Hed cry like a baby after one week of the Boston treatment. NY and Philadelphia too. He needs to go to a place like Minnesota where the locals will hug him and take him into their homes and feed him chicken soup when he's sick and offer up their daughter to give him a comfy blow job before beddie-bye time with cocoa.

[blaise]

I would feel the same way. If you played on the highest level, wouldn't you want to play in at least one game that mattered at some point?

[milkman]

It things like this, and the Adrain Gonzalez trade by the Padres that make baseball a dying sport.

Far too many irerlevant teams that can't keep stars killing the fan base across the country.

[Jerm]

Shocked the Braves haven't been in on this yet...esp. after Lee returning to Philly.

They have the pieces and I think he could thrive in ATL.

Come on Wren...get in there.

[Deberg_1990]

Ship him off to New York and let the New York media rip him apart. Let's see him handle that pressure, ****ing douchebag.

Would you want to play for a crap organization???

[Molitoth]

The Royals knew he wanted out.... Dayton Moore released the other day that Zach has given them a list of preferred teams to go to... and Dayton is working with those teams to find what he wants in trade value.

[SAUTO]

AgreedBefore any of the "can't say I blame him" bullshit gets tossed around, let me say up front that Greinke better keep his ****ing mouth shut throughout this process.

The Royals (and Baird specifically) gave this dude the room and respect to try to fit himself to a John Deere down in Florida. The least he can do in return is play the role of the good soldier and not do anything that could negatively affect the return for the club.

He hasn't so far. I'm just sayin...

(because something this right needs to be posted in two locations)
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

[ChiefsCountry]

Whoever wants Greinke - Pay up bitches.

[Thig Lyfe]

:(

[cabletech94]

dammit!

but, make the dude stay in kc. make him really sweat. really. hold on to him til the deadline next year. somebody will pay up.

this sucks that he's being a major league douche. if the link is legit. damn.

[Zaiko]

Baseball sucks... well the MLB does.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

well, unless we have at least 2 or 3 teams who really want him badly that we can play off each other, we probably need to lower our expectations. Greinke may have shot his trade value to hell. We should no longer expect a "kings ransom" where we "win decisively".

I now merely want a fair deal.

Keeping Zack at this point is NOT an option because knowing him, he could sit out or at least mope around enough to make sure he's nowhere close to a type A free agent in 2012.

It would be damned near impossible for him to play himself out of Type A status.

[DaneMcCloud]

JFC, it's nice to see that some of you douchefucks know as much about baseball as you do football.

LMAO

Grienke's been a goner since the end of the season. Every team is well aware that Grienke is on the block and it's just a matter of time before the Yankees, Rangers, Brewers or some other team puts together a suitable compensation package.

[cabletech94]

JFC, it's nice to see that some of you douche****s know as much about baseball as you do football.

LMAO

Grienke's been a goner since the end of the season. Every team is well aware that Grienke is on the block and it's just a matter of time before the Yankees, Rangers, Brewers or some other team puts together a suitable compensation package.

with all due respect, well, duh!

it's just really hard for the majority of us to accept the cold, harsh truth. and i'm leader of the pack.:banghead:

[gblowfish]

I don't blame him for wanting out. He'll never win here. Billy Butler will be the next one wanting out.

[CaliforniaChief]

I am discouraged by this. I knew the writing was on the wall, but to know that he actively wants out really bums me out.

We gave him more leeway to work through his issues than anyone else would have. We tiptoed on eggshells for this guy and tried to build a franchise around him. I could make a case that literally he would be out of baseball and not even known had it not been for the way we worked with him.

He's loved and absolutely adored...a player we could really support. But in the end he's like all the others. Moving on up and on to bigger and better things.

In come the new wave of prospects, and the wheels just keep on turning.

[DaneMcCloud]

I am discouraged by this. I knew the writing was on the wall, but to know that he actively wants out really bums me out.

We gave him more leeway to work through his issues than anyone else would have. We tiptoed on eggshells for this guy and tried to build a franchise around him. I could make a case that literally he would be out of baseball and not even known had it not been for the way we worked with him.

He's loved and absolutely adored...a player we could really support. But in the end he's like all the others. Moving on up and on to bigger and better things.

In come the new wave of prospects, and the wheels just keep on turning.

Unless David Glass sells the team to an owner that's willing to spend the money necessary to field a playoff contender year in and year out, the Royals will continue to be a farm team to the rest of the league.

The blame doesn't lie with MLB: The blame lies with David Glass.

HE bought into the Fraternity and has turned his back on Kansas City since.

[DaneMcCloud]

I am discouraged by this. I knew the writing was on the wall, but to know that he actively wants out really bums me out.

We gave him more leeway to work through his issues than anyone else would have. We tiptoed on eggshells for this guy and tried to build a franchise around him. I could make a case that literally he would be out of baseball and not even known had it not been for the way we worked with him.

He's loved and absolutely adored...a player we could really support. But in the end he's like all the others. Moving on up and on to bigger and better things.

In come the new wave of prospects, and the wheels just keep on turning.

Unless David Glass sells the team to an owner that's willing to spend the money necessary to field a playoff contender year in and year out, the Royals will continue to be a farm team to the rest of the league.

The blame doesn't lie with MLB: The blame lies with David Glass.

HE bought into the Fraternity and has turned his back on Kansas City since.

The guy is simply the worst owner in all of Professional Sports. Hell, even the owner of the Clippers sits courtside to heckels his own players!

[eazyb81]

Not really news to those of us that have been following this saga, but man, Greinke is a bitch.

You don't really have a ton of room to complain when you are bankrolling $27MM the next two seasons.

[DaneMcCloud]

Not really news to those of us that have been following this saga, but man, Greinke is a bitch.

You don't really have a ton of room to complain when you are bankrolling $27MM the next two seasons.

I guess that some of you guys just don't fucking get it.

Curt Flood sued for free agency in the 70's. IMO, the time that teams are allowed to keep players should be shorter, not longer.

The guy won the fucking Cy Young award last year for a losing team, a team that routinely wins 60 FUCKING GAMES.

Why shouldn't he use any means necessary to leave that shithole of a franchise?

Or do you want him to miserable because you are?

[eazyb81]

Unless David Glass sells the team to an owner that's willing to spend the money necessary to field a playoff contender year in and year out, the Royals will continue to be a farm team to the rest of the league.

The blame doesn't lie with MLB: The blame lies with David Glass.

HE bought into the Fraternity and has turned his back on Kansas City since.

The guy is simply the worst owner in all of Professional Sports. Hell, even the owner of the Clippers sits courtside to heckels his own players!

For someone who tried to poke fun of the baseball knowledge of others earlier in the thread, you sure don't know what you are talking about.

If Glass is the problem and is the worst owner in sports, wouldn't the Royals have the lowest payroll every year? Wouldn't we have the lowest draft bonuses every year? Wouldn't we avoid expensive Latin American players like the plague?

Glass is hardly perfect, but most of you are stuck in the NFL mindset that a team can be turned around in a year. MLB teams take years to turn around if you want to develop your own players instead of buy a ton of FAs, which isn't smart for a small market team.

[googlegoogle]

We are not trading him because HE SAYS SO.

Sick and tired of that worthless fu** giving orders after all his mental crisis and his wanting to play other positions or play golf.

F****G headcase moron.

If somebody paid me millions to be on a losing team then i would shut my fuc*ING mouth especially the economy the way it is.

We will not trade him for peanuts.

[DaneMcCloud]

For someone who tried to poke fun of the baseball knowledge of others earlier in the thread, you sure don't know what you are talking about.

If Glass is the problem and is the worst owner in sports, wouldn't the Royals have the lowest payroll every year? Wouldn't we have the lowest draft bonuses every year? Wouldn't we avoid expensive Latin American players like the plague?

Glass is hardly perfect, but most of you are stuck in the NFL mindset that a team can be turned around in a year. MLB teams take years to turn around if you want to develop your own players instead of buy a ton of FAs, which isn't smart for a small market team.


Oh, fuck off. You don't fucking anything about MLB.

Steinbrenner and his cronies were "this" close to eliminating the Royals altogether this past decade because they were sick of subsidizing the franchise.

Glass fucking sucks ass an owner. The mere fact that you've chosen to defend him just goes to show that you're a clueless fucking dumbass.

Not that it wasn't apparent years ago.

[eazyb81]

I guess that some of you guys just don't ****ing get it.

Curt Flood sued for free agency in the 70's. IMO, the time that teams are allowed to keep players should be shorter, not longer.

The guy won the ****ing Cy Young award last year for a losing team, a team that routinely wins 60 ****ING GAMES.

Why shouldn't he use any means necessary to leave that shithole of a franchise?

Or do you want him to miserable because you are?

You do realize he signed a contract extension, right? No one held a gun to his head and we certainly weren't winning 90 games a year then.

[DeezNutz]

In fairness, Glass has not been completely worthless only since '05.

And our ML payroll will need to increase. If the Twins are our model, we also need to take their lead in ML roster construction.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Unless David Glass sells the team to an owner that's willing to spend the money necessary to field a playoff contender year in and year out, the Royals will continue to be a farm team to the rest of the league.

The blame doesn't lie with MLB: The blame lies with David Glass.

HE bought into the Fraternity and has turned his back on Kansas City since.

While Glass' spending leaves something to be desired, his lack thereof in recent years has been grossly exaggerated. The problem with Glass isn't that he's a tightass, it's that he hires the wrong guys for the organization who piss away money on the wrong players.

Gil Meche and Jose Guillen were big ticket moves. They just happened to also be horrible personnel moves.

The reason why the Royals are more like the Pirates than the Rays or Twins has little to due with the purse strings and far more to do with the systemic organizational incompetence that is ubiquitous throughout the franchise.

You could easily have Tim Lincecum or Evan Longoria on this team over Luke Hochevar. You could have had Troy Tulowitzki, Ryan Zimmerman, or Ryan Braun instead of Alex Gordon.

None of those picks were passed up because of signability, they were done so out of incompetence.

[DaneMcCloud]

You do realize he signed a contract extension, right? No one held a gun to his head and we certainly weren't winning 90 games a year then.

Strategy.

You DO understand that, right?

[eazyb81]

Oh, **** off. You don't ****ing anything about MLB.

Steinbrenner and his cronies were "this" close to eliminating the Royals altogether this past decade because they were sick of subsidizing the franchise.

Glass ****ing sucks ass an owner. The mere fact that you've chosen to defend him just goes to show that you're a clueless ****ing dumbass.

Not that it wasn't apparent years ago.

Classic Dane, resorting to insults. LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

While Glass' spending leaves something to be desired, his lack thereof in recent years has been grossly exaggerated. The problem with Glass isn't that he's a tightass, it's that he hires the wrong guys for the organization who piss away money on the wrong players.

Gil Meche and Jose Guillen were big ticket moves. They just happened to also be horrible personnel moves.

The reason why the Royals are more like the Pirates than the Rays or Twins has little to due with the purse strings and far more to do with the systemic organizational incompetence that is ubiquitous throughout the franchise.

You could easily have Tim Lincecum or Evan Longoria on this team over Luke Hochevar. You could have had Troy Tulowitzki, Ryan Zimmerman, or Ryan Braun instead of Alex Gordon.

None of those picks were passed up because of signability, they were done so out of incompetence.

And while I agree with all of your points, it still goes back the fact that the Royals are a poorly run organization by a man that was hedging his bets that the value of that franchise would increase exponentially.

He's far from a "Baseball Man".

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And while I agree with all of your points, it still goes back the fact that the Royals are a poorly run organization by a man that was hedging his bets that the value of that franchise would increase exponentially.

He's far from a "Baseball Man".

This is what happens when owners treat teams like financial investments. See: Sterling, Donald.

[DaneMcCloud]

In fairness, Glass has not been completely worthless only since '05.

There is a reason for that, which I'll explain in a PM later tonight or tomorrow.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with him and more to do with the other owners that grew tired of subsidizing the Royals in the form of the luxury tax.

[Extra Point]

Three seasons ago, he was ducky with the Royals helping him pull his head out.

He is now officially a cancer. Cut him out. Let some other team deal with her.

[CaliforniaChief]

My last comment was just a statement of discouragement that history is once again repeating itself. Is Glass responsible? Yes. Moore? Yes. Greinke? Yes. And I would say only more so because of the degree to which the franchise went out of their way to help him get back.

[SAUTO]

Leans in to eavesdrop.....There is a reason for that, which I'll explain in a PM later tonight or tomorrow.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with him and more to do with the other owners that grew tired of subsidizing the Royals in the form of the luxury tax.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Bunk]

There is a reason for that, which I'll explain in a PM later tonight or tomorrow.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with him and more to do with the other owners that grew tired of subsidizing the Royals in the form of the luxury tax.

If I pay you $99.95, can I have this inside info?

Idiot.

[DeezNutz]

While Glass' spending leaves something to be desired, his lack thereof in recent years has been grossly exaggerated. The problem with Glass isn't that he's a tightass, it's that he hires the wrong guys for the organization who piss away money on the wrong players.

Gil Meche and Jose Guillen were big ticket moves. They just happened to also be horrible personnel moves.

The reason why the Royals are more like the Pirates than the Rays or Twins has little to due with the purse strings and far more to do with the systemic organizational incompetence that is ubiquitous throughout the franchise.

You could easily have Tim Lincecum or Evan Longoria on this team over Luke Hochevar. You could have had Troy Tulowitzki, Ryan Zimmerman, or Ryan Braun instead of Alex Gordon.

None of those picks were passed up because of signability, they were done so out of incompetence.

1. This is starting not to be the case. A payroll at or south of $70M, especially with promises made about the impact of a "new" stadium, is NOT enough. It can be tolerable for a brief period, but it must change quickly.

2. Unfair to criticize this move since every other team would have done the same. Moore should get killed for the Hochevar selection, however.

[HotRoute]

Fuckin royals always giving their fans something to look forward to, and by something I mean more losing

[DeezNutz]

There is a reason for that, which I'll explain in a PM later tonight or tomorrow.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with him and more to do with the other owners that grew tired of subsidizing the Royals in the form of the luxury tax.

Cool.

He was the squeaky wheel, and there's no question that for years his #1 priority was to change the economic structure of the game. Truly, truly annoying for fans who suffered through this period.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

2. Unfair to criticize this move since every other team would have done the same. Moore should get killed for the Hochevar selection, however.

I think there is a little localism that gets sprinkled into the Gordon selection.

[Extra Point]

1. This is starting not to be the case. A payroll at or south of $70M, especially with promises made about the impact of a "new" stadium, is NOT enough. It can be tolerable for a brief period, but it must change quickly.

2. Unfair to criticize this move since every other team would have done the same. Moore should get killed for the Hochevar selection, however.

For once, I agree with Jenkins on something. After years upon years of deals such as not renewing Ibanez' contract, Creemos (Cream Us), and getting a fixed-game Japan league manager, the KC Royals have underlined that this team has no clout.

Dayton Moore is a tight-shirted Allard Baird, with no more idea how to run this team than their predecessor finding a washer at Ranch Mart Hardware.

[tk13]

Honestly... as long as he's willing to sign the checks, I'm fine with that. Sometimes I'm not sure being a big fan/owner is always a good thing. You start meddling too much. As much as everyone on here loves him, Jerry Jones is overrated. He hasn't won squat without hiring a good personnel person and staying out of his way. The Twins have ruled the division for a decade and their owner could give a crap. He volunteered the team for contraction.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is what happens when owners treat teams like financial investments. See: Sterling, Donald.

Exactly.

Except I do applaud Sterling lately for heckling his players, especially Baron Davis, who's been nothing less than a piece of shit for the Clips.

I'm sure you can find Youtube videos but it's fucking hilarious when they show him on local news.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

If I pay you $99.95, can I have this inside info?

Idiot.

Who the fuck are you?

[DaneMcCloud]

Leans in to eavesdrop.....
Posted via Mobile Device

I'll PM you, Jason. I know that you trust not only me but my sources.

[tk13]

Robert Kraft's another good example. I mean he's obviously no Carl Pohlad... I think he likes football, but the guy is a total businessman, wouldn't overpay for anybody. He hires good personnel people and gets out of the way. Pays for a handful of key cornerstone guys, screw the rest of them. Colts, Steelers, all the same way. You gotta have killer personnel evaluators to do that though.

[DeezNutz]

I think there is a little localism that gets sprinkled into the Gordon selection.

While I acknowledge that I'm not entirely objective about this subject, I can't recall a single scouting report that did not agree that Gordon was the consensus #2 player. Upton was considered in the Jr. category, with Gordon considered a #1 in a "normal" year.

Ironically, all the talk was about how lucky the Royals were that year.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think there is a little localism that gets sprinkled into the Gordon selection.

Which is fucking bullshit to the nth power.

Draft the best players available, period, regardless of geography.

[DaneMcCloud]

While I acknowledge that I'm not entirely objective about this subject, I can't recall a single scouting report that did not agree that Gordon was the consensus #2 player. Upton was considered in the Jr. category, with Gordon considered a #1 in a "normal" year.

Ironically, all the talk was about how lucky the Royals were that year.

Kinda like the Chiefs with Tyson Jackson.




Oh, oops.

[tk13]

Gordon was clearly the #2 player and the best college bat in America. There would've been a riot if the Royals didn't take him. At that point we were still considered cheap in the draft and there was debate over whether the Royals would skip Gordon and choose a lesser player for money purposes. Hochevar was definitely the one that was up in the air with a few other pitchers.

[DeezNutz]

Robert Kraft's another good example. I mean he's obviously no Carl Pohlad... I think he likes football, but the guy is a total businessman, wouldn't overpay for anybody. He hires good personnel people and gets out of the way. Pays for a handful of key cornerstone guys, screw the rest of them. Colts, Steelers, all the same way. You gotta have killer personnel evaluators to do that though.

And, like Glass, he also rarely attends games or seems to have an emotional attachment to the franchise.

That is the one thing that completely pisses me off about Glass. He gives his obligatory Spring Training comment about "no one hates losing more than [him]" and then disappears to the dredges of Arkansas.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Gordon was clearly the #2 player and the best college bat in America. There would've been a riot if the Royals didn't take him. At that point we were still considered cheap in the draft and there was debate over whether the Royals would skip Gordon and choose a lesser player for money purposes. Hochevar was definitely the one that was up in the air with a few other pitchers.

He was the more highly touted prospect than Braun, Zimmerman, or Tulo, but he wasn't a "clean" guy, either.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Kinda like the Chiefs with Tyson Jackson.




Oh, oops.

More like the Chiefs with Sims. Jackson was universally hailed as a reach, and had Matt Millen made that pick instead of Scott Pioli, it would have been viewed as one of the worst of the decade.

[Al Bundy]

There is a reason for that, which I'll explain in a PM later tonight or tomorrow.

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with him and more to do with the other owners that grew tired of subsidizing the Royals in the form of the luxury tax.

Marlins and Pirates got the same treatment, and for the record I don't think Glasshole is a good baseball owner.

[DaneMcCloud]

More like the Chiefs with Sims. Jackson was universally hailed as a reach, and had Matt Millen made that pick instead of Scott Pioli, it would have been viewed as one of the worst of the decade.

You're right.

I was just reaching to fit another Tyson Jackson anecdote in the conversation.

The joke is still on Pioli.

[DaneMcCloud]

Marlins and Pirates got the same treatment, and for the record I don't think Glasshole is a good baseball owner.

I don't know much about the Pirates current owner but the Marlins are an excellent baseball organization that often bend their will to that of their owner.

Not many teams can junk their payroll to $14 million after a World Series win and still be in playoff contention in no time.

[Titty Meat]

Dane hits it on the head it's just too bad some dumb fucks will spend money to see this farm system next year.

[GloryDayz]

I don't blame him for wanting out. He'll never win here. Billy Butler will be the next one wanting out.

Once "Lemonade, Lemonade, Lemonade" left, you knew the end was near!

[tonyetony]

As far as Greinkie goes I say let that ratard go play in a major market and see how the media treats him.

As far as Tyson Jackson goes..I'm rooting my ass for him and a few more d-linemen to step up.......If the Chiefs can't stop the run well then they are done and I have to watch the Chargers in the playoffs again.

[googlegoogle]

Gordon and Tyson Jackson are good players.

Not every player plays at AllStar/Probowl level in their first 2 seasons.

[alnorth]

ROFL There is a whole lot of stupid crammed into this thread.

[salame]

fuck zack

[Kyle DeLexus]

I guess that some of you guys just don't fucking get it.

Curt Flood sued for free agency in the 70's. IMO, the time that teams are allowed to keep players should be shorter, not longer.

The guy won the fucking Cy Young award last year for a losing team, a team that routinely wins 60 FUCKING GAMES.

Why shouldn't he use any means necessary to leave that shithole of a franchise?

Or do you want him to miserable because you are?

And lost :)

[pr_capone]

Off to Atlanta with Zack in 5, 4, 3, 2...

/crosses fingers

[Reaper16]

Man, there is some revisionist fucking history going on here wrt Alex Gordon.

[KC_Connection]

Remember how I said there was no way you were going to get fair value for Greinke yesterday? That teams are going to be unwilling to give up enough for an ace? Well...that looks even more likely now.

At least Halladay asked for a trade through the team last year and not the media, this completely destroys the Royals' position.

[Infidel Goat]

It would if there were only one team that was interested in Greinke.

Multiple bidders will keep the price honest.

[CoMoChief]

Before any of the "can't say I blame him" bullshit gets tossed around, let me say up front that Greinke better keep his ****ing mouth shut throughout this process.

The Royals (and Baird specifically) gave this dude the room and respect to try to fit himself to a John Deere down in Florida. The least he can do in return is play the role of the good soldier and not do anything that could negatively affect the return for the club.

He hasn't so far. I'm just sayin...

(because something this right needs to be posted in two locations)

STFU

[CoMoChief]

**** zack

why? he wants to win.....The Royals have zero intentions of making that happen which they've proven that a bajillion times over and over again. stop with the loyalty bullshit, it's a business and 99.9999% would be asking for the same thing. The Royals are one of the worst franchises in professional sports. That falls on ownership.

[Al Bundy]

Gordon and Tyson Jackson are good players.

Not every player plays at AllStar/Probowl level in their first 2 seasons.

Alex Gordon is a below average player.

[KevB]

Remember how I said there was no way you were going to get fair value for Greinke yesterday? That teams are going to be unwilling to give up enough for an ace? Well...that looks even more likely now.

At least Halladay asked for a trade through the team last year and not the media, this completely destroys the Royals' position.

Greinke hasn't said a word to the press, so your contention that the something is different, "destroying" the Royals position is completely false. This new round of stories is only because he changed agents, so the press is running with the "he wants to be traded now!" mantra. The only quote that's being used from Greinke is the same quote he made during the season that got all of the trade talk started in the first place.

Nothing has changed. It's likely that he wants to be traded, DM knows it, and other teams know it. He's signed for another two years, so the Royals still have all the leverage.

[KevB]

Man, there is some revisionist ****ing history going on here wrt Alex Gordon.

Yep....there was only one person to be picked when the Royals were on the clock, and that was Gordon. There wasn't an expert, analyst, or fan ANYWHERE that didn't think he was the right pick. His numbers at every level would suggest he had/has star potential as well. He was the minor league player of the year his first season in pro ball. For whatever reason, it hasn't translated, but the pick was the right one at the time. Braun had no position (butcher at 3B), nobody knew if Zimmerman would hit, and Tulo wasn't thought to have the upside that he's now displayed.

[DeezNutz]

Greinke hasn't said a word to the press, so your contention that the something is different, "destroying" the Royals position is completely false. This new round of stories is only because he changed agents, so the press is running with the "he wants to be traded now!" mantra. The only quote that's being used from Greinke is the same quote he made during the season that got all of the trade talk started in the first place.

Nothing has changed. It's likely that he wants to be traded, DM knows it, and other teams know it. He's signed for another two years, so the Royals still have all the leverage.

This hasn't stopped the panic, apparently.

[KC_Connection]

Greinke hasn't said a word to the press, so your contention that the something is different, "destroying" the Royals position is completely false. This new round of stories is only because he changed agents, so the press is running with the "he wants to be traded now!" mantra. The only quote that's being used from Greinke is the same quote he made during the season that got all of the trade talk started in the first place.

Nothing has changed. It's likely that he wants to be traded, DM knows it, and other teams know it. He's signed for another two years, so the Royals still have all the leverage.
Let's not be naive here. Changing your agent and then having him contact a national reporter like Morosi is doing the same thing.

Any leverage that the Royals had here (and they didn't have much) is completely gone.

[blaise]

I actually think Greinke would do well in a place like Boston. I think he gets bored mentally. I think playing in a market like Boston would actually keep his mind in things.

[SAUTO]

Let's not be naive here. Changing your agent and then having him contact a national reporter like Morosi is doing the same thing.

Any leverage that the Royals had here (and they didn't have much) is completely gone.

huh? they have a top five pitcher in the MAJOR leagues signed on the cheap for two more years. thats leverage buddy

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

KCR:

Layover for talent on it's way to the Real Franchises.

[KevB]

Let's not be naive here. Changing your agent and then having him contact a national reporter like Morosi is doing the same thing.

Any leverage that the Royals had here (and they didn't have much) is completely gone.

Who's being naive? Every team in baseball is feeding information to the press attempting to depress Greinke's trade value. Every story that comes out has an anonymous executive with another team saying that Greinke definitely wants to be traded. The back and forth in the press is irrelevant.

What matters is that there are multiple teams that want Greinke, and the Royals have him under contract for 2 more years. Greinke has no leverage. What's he going to do, sit out? Play poorly? There are already questions about his head....he can't afford either of those tactics if he really wants to be traded.

Bottom line, I respect your thoughts on the Blue Jays and what they should or shouldn't do. You're a fan of their team and you have a reasonable opinion. But your last sentence above is ridiculous and without merit.

[Sure-Oz]

Royals are still in the same shape and hold all the cards. teams will pay

[KChiefs1]

I think that Greinke would be fine in NYC...he wouldn't be the star on that team.

[bigbucks24]

What kind of package do you think the Royals will get for Zack, realistically? From say, the Orioles or Braves?

[SAUTO]

Lol read through some threads. If reaper our deez or alnorth say it that is about what we realistically think he's worth.

He is a top five pitcher who is under contract for two more years for 27 million. You do the math. What kind of package do you think the Royals will get for Zack, realistically? From say, the Orioles or Braves?
Posted via Mobile Device

[bigbucks24]

Lol read through some threads. If reaper our deez or alnorth say it that is about what we realistically think he's worth.

He is a top five pitcher who is under contract for two more years for 27 million. You do the math.
Posted via Mobile Device
Well, I'm pretty good at math and I still don't know the answer to the questions. Though Zack won the CY award a year ago, he didn't have a great year last year. He also has a history of SAD. I am especially interested in what CP believes Zack will fetch if the Royals would trade with the O's. I'm curious to see if O's fan severely overrate their players and prospects or whether they are reasonable. After I see what CP thinks, I will gladly throw out some thoughts of an Oriole board.

[alnorth]

What kind of package do you think the Royals will get for Zack, realistically? From say, the Orioles or Braves?

Orioles: Haven't heard us connected much to them. I assume Matusz and Wieters are both untouchable. Manny Machado is their best prospect, but extremely young (17), barely played rookie ball, at least 4 years off. I'm not seeing much to get excited about, and the Orioles are not one ace away so it makes no sense for them to start hacking off key players from the big club or blowing up their minor leagues.

Braves: Atlanta could really use him, and some Royals fans are picking the Braves as a dark horse candidate due to need, having something in the minors, and connection to DM. Our conversation would have to begin with the gem of their system, Julio Teheran (RHP). Teheran will probably be ready by mid 2012 and he projects as an ace. Hard to say if Atlanta would want to let him go though, but we'd ideally want him in any trade. Their 2nd-best pitcher (RHP) will also be ready in 2 years and has been doing well but reportedly projects out as maybe a #2 or a good #3. After that, the Braves have some legit 2 and 3-star CF/middle infield prospects who might blow up this season, but the sure stars of their system are right-handed starting pitchers.

[alnorth]

Well, I'm pretty good at math and I still don't know the answer to the questions. Though Zack won the CY award a year ago, he didn't have a great year last year. He also has a history of SAD. I am especially interested in what CP believes Zack will fetch if the Royals would trade with the O's. I'm curious to see if O's fan severely overrate their players and prospects or whether they are reasonable. After I see what CP thinks, I will gladly throw out some thoughts of an Oriole board.

Despite what some Toronto fans may say to the contrary, the league is giving him a pass for last year. By his own admission he got bored playing with the Royals and just simply didnt try his hardest, except a few times when we played good teams. His career ERA+ is still good, his ERA was inflated by a very bad defense behind him, he would have posted much better numbers in 2010 if we had 7 legit gloves behind him.

[SAUTO]

I hope like hell that we don't trade with the braves. Just don't feel we will come out as well due to moores history there.

I haven't heard about the os either and don't know much about their youth
Posted via Mobile Device

[CaliforniaChief]

Why not Zack for Heyward, straight up?

[SAUTO]

Do a search. Been discussed as nauseum around here for two weeks.Well, I'm pretty good at math and I still don't know the answer to the questions. Though Zack won the CY award a year ago, he didn't have a great year last year. He also has a history of SAD. I am especially interested in what CP believes Zack will fetch if the Royals would trade with the O's. I'm curious to see if O's fan severely overrate their players and prospects or whether they are reasonable. After I see what CP thinks, I will gladly throw out some thoughts of an Oriole board.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

No.Why not Zack for Heyward, straight up?
Posted via Mobile Device

[CaliforniaChief]

No.
Posted via Mobile Device

why not? Seriously, I'm curious.

[bigbucks24]

I have to think that Jones, Arrieta, Caleb Joseph and Givens is pretty close to getting it done.

If Baltimore wanted to be taken seriously in a offer it would take Britton, Jones, Tillman/Arrieta and Avery/Hoes.

But, what about a package of Jones, Arrieta, Hobgood, Joseph, and Givens? Would that be enough?

Id think Jones, Tillman/Arrieta, Reimold plus a lower level guy would get it done.

Your thoughts?

[SAUTO]

why not? Seriously, I'm curious.

Others may disagree. I would like to get their opinion on it too. An elite proven pitcher is worth more IMO than a guy who has had one decent season as a hitter.

But like I said I am interested in what al and deez' opinions are on this
Posted via Mobile Device

[CaliforniaChief]

Others may disagree. I would like to get their opinion on it too. An elite proven pitcher is worth more IMO than a guy who has had one decent season as a hitter.

But like I said I am interested in what al and deez' opinions are on this
Posted via Mobile Device

I share your interest in learning more here. I do think getting a guy like Heyward gives the middle of our lineup some young pop, even if he is left-handed. It would be easier for fans to swallow, maybe?

[eazyb81]

Despite what some Toronto fans may say to the contrary, the league is giving him a pass for last year. By his own admission he got bored playing with the Royals and just simply didnt try his hardest, except a few times when we played good teams. His career ERA+ is still good, his ERA was inflated by a very bad defense behind him, he would have posted much better numbers in 2010 if we had 7 legit gloves behind him.

People keep bringing up last year as a point for him not being an ace, and I'm not sure why. He was 11th last year in WAR among all pitchers in baseball.

He's 4th in WAR over the last three years, behind Halladay, Lee, and Lincecum.

The guy is an ace, period.

[Jerm]

The Braves aren't trading Heyward so that can be put to rest.

I'd be shocked if they dealt Teheran too...he's going to be an ace level pitcher and I believe they'd be reluctant to part with him.

Exactly why I don't think Wren will try for him...DM is going to want Teheran.

[Halfcan]

I will file this in my Who gives a shit file. Look at the Phillies rotation then look at whatever garbage the Royals are putting out on the field. Not even in the same zip code.

[SAUTO]

He's also a local guy there IIRC so the backlash could be bad especially if greinke has a mental relapse.I share your interest in learning more here. I do think getting a guy like Heyward gives the middle of our lineup some young pop, even if he is left-handed. It would be easier for fans to swallow, maybe?
Posted via Mobile Device

[alnorth]

Your thoughts?

OK, I'm bored, taking a closer look.

Britton, AAA LHP. One of the things we arguably have far too much of is starting left-handed pitchers. The Yankees and Twins are going to freaking hate playing us in a few years as it is with likely 3 maybe 4 lefties in our rotation, adding Britton would be comical to the point of "ok, we've got to trade one of them off", and our Lefty SP's are all still studs.

Anyway, on his merits ignoring need, ignoring Machado and untouchable major leaguers, he's probably the best they have. Scouts say he is a left-handed sinkerball pitcher with a 95 mph fastball and a good change. strikeout and walk numbers good, home runs pretty low. He seems to be getting hit a bit though, so obviously a contact pitcher.

Jones, MLB CF. 3 years till free agent (2014), his offense is somewhat nice for his position, but its almost all based on power, his OBP isn't great. His value is almost all from his bat at his position, his glove is by no means golden, but he's not a liability either. eh, not excited but he's much better than anything we've got.

Arrieta, AAA/MLB RHP. Was a decent prospect who probably got rushed. He did ok in the minors, but was probably rushed up too quickly and he got hammered in Baltimore last year. Not high on my list.

Tillman, MLB RHP. No. Was once thought of highly, 5-year minor leaguer, good not great in AAA, bounced up and down to/from baltimore the last 2 seasons.

Avery, AA CF. young kid, 20 years old. If he was one of the greatest defensive center fielders in his AA league I would not be interested because his power is anemic. He gets on base ok, and you obviously have lower standards for speedy center fielders but he doesn't meet any acceptable power standard currently for a promising prospect. Yes he's young, and yes maybe he'll grow into his power but he's so bad now I dont see him improving enough for me to care.

Hoes, AA 2B. eh, sure. He's on everyone's list as about Baltimore's 5th or 6th-best prospect, he tore up the low minors, and slowed down a bit in advanced A. The scouts are still high on him as a legit 3-star B-level type of prospect, so he might be good as a 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade.

Baltimore theoretically has the ability to get Greinke if they lost their minds, but they have precious little in their roster and minor leagues as it is for contention in the AL East so I dont think it would be worth it for them.

[eazyb81]

The Braves aren't trading Heyward so that can be put to rest.

I'd be shocked if they dealt Teheran too...he's going to be an ace level pitcher and I believe they'd be reluctant to part with him.

Exactly why I don't think Wren will try for him...DM is going to want Teheran.

I would take a package centered around Minor and Delgado, though I still don't think the Braves are interested.

They would have to find someone to dump Lowe on because right now they don't have a spot for Greinke.

[Halfcan]

Royals should tell Zach to sit down and shut the F up. He has 2 years left. Makes no sense to trade the only GREAT pitcher they have.

[SAUTO]

Royals should tell Zach to sit down and shut the F up. He has 2 years left. Makes no sense to trade the only GREAT pitcher they have.
If he truly wants to go now is the time. It makes sense.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigChiefFan]

I wish the Royals could keep him, but if we can get a slew of up and comers, it would be worth it in the long-run.

BTW, Al, nice breakdowns on the players you mentioned.

[bigbucks24]

People keep bringing up last year as a point for him not being an ace, and I'm not sure why. He was 11th last year in WAR among all pitchers in baseball.

He's 4th in WAR over the last three years, behind Halladay, Lee, and Lincecum.

The guy is an ace, period.

But he is not without warts. Between his drop last year, his SAD, his boredom and overall flakiness, he has questions. Understand I am not saying that he is not a very good pitcher, but some of these things might lower his value some.

[keg in kc]

Royals should tell Zach to sit down and shut the F up. He has 2 years left. Makes no sense to trade the only GREAT pitcher they have.It actually makes perfect sense. And they should have done it a year ago when his value was at its peak.

[DeezNutz]

Others may disagree. I would like to get their opinion on it too. An elite proven pitcher is worth more IMO than a guy who has had one decent season as a hitter.

But like I said I am interested in what al and deez' opinions are on this
Posted via Mobile Device

I would do that trade yesterday.

While I agree that Greinke is elite and Heyward isn't at that level yet, he has a great chance to get there, and an elite position player is always > an elite pitcher.

Look at his numbers from this year: .277/.393./.456

Similar batters through age 20 (according to Baseball Prospectus):

1. Sam Crawford
6. Eddie Mathews
9. Micky Mantle (all HOFers, obviously)

Finally, Heyward is a plus defensive player. If the Braves would be temporarily insane and float his name, you make the deal immediately and run like you stole something (because you did).

[BigChiefFan]

I would do that trade yesterday.

While I agree that Greinke is elite and Heyward isn't at that level yet, he has a great chance to get there, and an elite position player is always > an elite pitcher.

Look at his numbers from this year: .277/.393./.456

Similar batters through age 20 (according to Baseball Prospectus):

1. Sam Crawford
6. Eddie Mathews
9. Micky Mantle (all HOFers, obviously)

Finally, Heyward is a plus defensive player. If the Braves would be temporarily insane and float his name, you make the deal immediately and run like you stole something (because you did).You make a heck of a case for making the trade. Nice take.

[SAUTO]

You make a heck of a case for making the trade. Nice take.

I agree, but to me greinke is proven at the ml level. Heyward isnt quite yet. But deez' argument is legit
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mr. Laz]

If he really wants traded then he need to keep him mouth shut. The more leverage the Royals have the better price they get and quicker he'll get traded. Going public only encourages other teams to hold out and play hardball for a lower trade price.

[CaliforniaChief]

If he really wants traded then he need to keep him mouth shut. The more leverage the Royals have the better price they get and quicker he'll get traded. Going public only encourages other teams to hold out and play hardball for a lower trade price.

It makes me pretty confident that some of the competing GM's are dropping these rumors and hints.

[bigbucks24]

If he really wants traded then he need to keep him mouth shut. The more leverage the Royals have the better price they get and quicker he'll get traded. Going public only encourages other teams to hold out and play hardball for a lower trade price.

I see it differently. I think the more he talks, the lower the price gets. and the better chance that it gets done early. If he says nothing, the Royals have all the leverage and they can ask for the moon. If he becomes disgruntled, the asking price become more reasonable. It sucks for the Royals, but I think it benefits Zack. Reminds me of when Trent was going to the Dolphins. The more he bitched, the more likely it was to get done. And in reality, Zack wants to price to be as low as possible. If he is going to pitch for someone else, he wants them to give up as little as possible.

[CaliforniaChief]

I see it differently. I think the more he talks, the lower the price gets. and the better chance that it gets done early. If he says nothing, the Royals have all the leverage and they can ask for the moon. If he becomes disgruntled, the asking price become more reasonable. It sucks for the Royals, but I think it benefits Zack. Reminds me of when Trent was going to the Dolphins. The more he bitched, the more likely it was to get done. And in reality, Zack wants to price to be as low as possible. If he is going to pitch for someone else, he wants them to give up as little as possible.
:spock:

[ChiefsCountry]

I see it differently. I think the more he talks, the lower the price gets. and the better chance that it gets done early. If he says nothing, the Royals have all the leverage and they can ask for the moon. If he becomes disgruntled, the asking price become more reasonable. It sucks for the Royals, but I think it benefits Zack. Reminds me of when Trent was going to the Dolphins. The more he bitched, the more likely it was to get done. And in reality, Zack wants to price to be as low as possible. If he is going to pitch for someone else, he wants them to give up as little as possible.

:spock:

There is a big difference from a washed up Trent Green and the best young pitcher in baseball. The price isn't getting lowered, especially since the Royals actually control all the cards in this deal.

[DeezNutz]

:spock:

There is a big difference from a washed up Trent Green and the best young pitcher in baseball. The price isn't getting lowered, especially since the Royals actually control all the cards in this deal.

...and Greinke actually hasn't said a fucking word.

[DeezNutz]

Ok, gang. Rumor. Rumor.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/112137964.html

Shortstop Alcides Escobar, center fielder Lorenzo Cain, and right-hander Jeremy Jeffress to Kansas City in return for Greinke, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and approximately $2M.

[alnorth]

baseball boards are buzzing on it. This guy is only a blogger, but he apparently has a couple Brewer sources and was able to call a few things before. So, this guy apparently is somewhat-respected as far as sports bloggers go.

His story has a pile of disclaimers and his twitter is emphasizing that its a rumor that he's trying to confirm.

[DeezNutz]

Escobar has decent numbers in the minors, but his first full year with the big club was underwhelming at best:

.235/.288/.326
OPS+ 67

But he made up for these atrocious numbers by playing sub-standard defense.

[Jerm]

I believe Milwaukee is on his no trade list.

Be interesting to see if he'd go there if this is true.

[alnorth]

starting from the bottom, and that 3rd player, though talented, is definitely at the bottom trying to redeem himself.

Jeremy Jeffress AA RH RP - he was once the Brewers top pitching prospect but he hit a wall in AA. In 2010 he was converted to a closer and he's been lighting it up. He throws very hard, some still think he could maybe figure it out and be a good starter, others think he's destined to be a relief pitcher.

Jeffress has some off-the-field issues that should be mentioned. In 2007 or 2008 he was busted for Marijuana and suspended for 50 games. In 2009 he violated MiLB drug policy again and was suspended for 100 games. A 3rd violation means a lifetime ban from the game. After he got off suspension, the Brewers promptly added him to their 40-man roster which meant he now falls under MLB policy (major league players cant be suspended or banned for Marijuana) to avoid that risk. Unless a team is confident that he wont smoke dope again, they probably have to keep him on the 40-man so he doesn't fall under the MiLB drug policy.

Lorenzo Cain AAA CF - Drafted out of high school, spent 6 years in the minors. He was once very highly thought of, but tailed off a bit until he rebounded in AAA last year, he's now 24 years old. He reportedly has a plus glove in CF, the only problem is his bat. He wasn't hitting well until last year. He still doesnt hit for power, but he had a crazy-high OBP. Did he figure it out, or was it a fluke? Either way, its time for him to show off his glove in some team's center field and hope he doesn't suck at the plate.

Alcides Escobar MLB SS Free Agent in 2016 - Last year he was a 5-star prospect, the best player in the Brewers system. He had an awful, awful year last year in his first year as a pro. The scouts projected his glove as a "plus-plus" SS, little power but decent OBP in AAA. He sucked in all aspects of the game, offense and defense, in his rookie year. This could just be an adjustment year and he'll quickly grow into a really good shortstop, or he could be in the midst of a spectacular bust. He's still very young, 23 years old.

Aquiring him at a significant cost is an extremely high-risk high-reward move.

[DeezNutz]

So, in sum:

1. Almost out of the game.
2. Can't hit.
3. Can't hit.

Yeah, these guys will fit right in.

[Toadkiller]

God this trade would be craptacular for the Royals. I will die if this is true, there has to be a better trade out there. No way I get rid of G for those scrubs.

[DeezNutz]

For the time being, I am going to assume that this rumor is 100 percent false. Certainly Dayton Moore cannot be that fucking stupid, right?

[CaliforniaChief]

Jeebus, they'd better throw in Robin Yount to make that fair.

[alnorth]

For the time being, I am going to assume that this rumor is 100 percent false. Certainly Dayton Moore cannot be that ****ing stupid, right?

If its not 100 percent false, I'm hoping the blogger's source misunderstood and this is the beginning of an auction.

DM to everyone: ok folks, we absolutely have to trade Greinke and its going down within a month or so. We're not playing around, highest offer wins. I have these 3 craptacular prospects from Milwaukee, and thats where the bidding starts. If none of you beat them then they will win.

Texas: Ummm, gee Dayton we could do better then that.

DM: Fine, do it.

Yankees: *snort* please, that offer from Texas is crap, here's what we've got.

etc.

[tk13]

Well the Brewers are fairly aggressive, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make a move. I guess we'll see. I'm definitely not going to be surprised if something comes out of left field.

As for this trade, I don't know. It doesn't seem overwhelming at first, but it does include 2 guys who were top 100 prospects... and a guy in Escobar who was considered an elite prospect. They definitely all seem like guys DM would like. Solid SS, speedy CF, pitcher with a big arm.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Not a fan of the rumored trade.

[alnorth]

MLBTraderumors isnt buying it.

RT @mlbtraderumors Emails streaming in on that link but we don't know the guy's track record and wouldn't use something like that.

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

For the time being, I am going to assume that this rumor is 100 percent false. Certainly Dayton Moore cannot be that fucking stupid, right?

Never underestimate a guy that signed Jason Kendall to a two year deal


Please....kill me


http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/4083/272790-1118341874_33_super.jpg

[Pitt Gorilla]

One of us should make up some horrible rumor and post it to Twatter.

[DeezNutz]

Well the Brewers are fairly aggressive, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make a move. I guess we'll see. I'm definitely not going to be surprised if something comes out of left field.

As for this trade, I don't know. It doesn't seem overwhelming at first, but it does include 2 guys who were top 100 prospects... and a guy in Escobar who was considered an elite prospect. They definitely all seem like guys DM would like. Solid SS, speedy CF, pitcher with a big arm.

But these evaluations are now dated. This would be like us trading Crow, right now, and the receiving team claiming that they have a potential ace.

Um...no, guys, you don't.

[CaliforniaChief]

Since I'm in the straight-up trade mode, let's send him to the Brewers for Prince Fielder.

[alnorth]

heh, rotoworld gave a bit of a backhand slap to the blogger.

A Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel blog reports that the Brewers could be acquiring Zack Greinke from the Royals for Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress and Lorenzo Cain.

We have a very hard time believing there's anything to this report, but since it's all over Twitter, we can't not cover it here. Expect denials soon.

[alnorth]

This trade is the sort of thing I'd expect an optimistic Brewer fan would throw together after hearing our demands.

"they want SS? Oh hey, we got escobar, he was our best prospect last year!" (he had a horrific year this year) "Oh wait we need a SS now. Oh hey, lets just trade shortstops, the guy they get will be young so it totally makes sense for KC."

"hmmm, also asking for CF? We dont have a CF prospect, who do we got in AAA? Oh, Cain? Cool, he had a good year last year. Throw him in"

"They also want a pitcher with #1 upside? Jeffress was our best pitching prospect 2 or 3 years ago, maybe they will take him!" (Jeffress has been converted to a closer, never succeeded as a starter) "Done and done, that totally looks like a doable trade!"

[Billay2]

Heard Grienke to Texas for Marrero and a few pitching prospects.

That would be a great trade, IMO.

[DeezNutz]

Please let alnorth be correct.

This move, on the surface, would be FAR worse than the Betancourt acquisition in '09 in terms of what it would say about DM's level of competence.

[SPchief]

Heard Grienke to Texas for Marrero and a few pitching prospects.

That would be a great trade, IMO.

I heard Grienke to the Phillies for Lee straght up

[Buck]

How many years does he have left on his current contract?

[Buck]

WTF, just looked up his contract.

2011: $13.5M, 2012: $13.5M

What the hell were the Royals thinking? They aren't going to get a lot of value back, IMO.

[tk13]

Rumor now that the Brewers would also include P Jake Odorizzi in the deal.

[Rams Fan]

Someone else is also reporting that the trade is a done deal.

[DeezNutz]

WTF, just looked up his contract.

2011: $13.5M, 2012: $13.5M

What the hell were the Royals thinking? They aren't going to get a lot of value back, IMO.

:spock:

[Buck]

:spock:

Just comparing what the Padres got for Peavy compared to what they got for Adrian Gonzalez.

If Greinke was due less money, I think you could get more for him. I am just surprised he gets paid that much.

[tk13]

Just comparing what the Padres got for Peavy compared to what they got for Adrian Gonzalez.

If Greinke was due less money, I think you could get more for him. I am just surprised he gets paid that much.

That's nothing. An average pitcher these days makes $10 million a year.

[Rams Fan]

Oddorizzi had an average of 10.1 Ks per 9 innings.

[duncan_idaho]

WTF, just looked up his contract.

2011: $13.5M, 2012: $13.5M

What the hell were the Royals thinking? They aren't going to get a lot of value back, IMO.

What are you talking about? That's an incredible value for a Cy Young-capable pitcher who is among the top 5-8 starters in the league.

It's also $6-10 million less than comparable pitchers are making, yearly...

[alnorth]

That blogger who started all this hilarity a half hour ago is now tweeting that Odorizzi would also go to KC in this deal. Just for laughs, lets see who the hell he is too...

Jake Odorizzi A-level RH SP, drafted out of high school, only 20 years old, and only had a lot of work starting last year. His peripherals look nice, lots of strikeouts. Since this is A-ball you pretty much have to ignore ERA, and rely heavily on scouting reports. He's on a few top-15 Brewer lists so the scouts think he has potential, but he's a long ways off from the majors and hasn't even pitched in advanced A yet.

He's not garbage, but he is the sort of guy I'd be happy with if he was thrown in as prospect #3 behind 2 nice prospects.

[DeezNutz]

Just comparing what the Padres got for Peavy compared to what they got for Adrian Gonzalez.

If Greinke was due less money, I think you could get more for him. I am just surprised he gets paid that much.

Dude, that's one of the main benefits for the team acquiring him. His contract is an extreme value.

[Buck]

Dude, that's one of the main benefits for the team acquiring him. His contract is an extreme value.

Wait, $12.5 million and $13.5 million is an extreme value? How much would he expect to get if he was due a free agent contract this year?

[DeezNutz]

That blogger who started all this hilarity a half hour ago is now tweeting that Odorizzi would also go to KC in this deal. Just for laughs, lets see who the hell he is too...

Jake Odorizzi A-level RH SP, drafted out of high school, only 20 years old, and only had a lot of work starting last year. His peripherals look nice, lost of strikeouts. Since this is A-ball you pretty much have to ignore ERA, and rely heavily on scouting reports. He's on a few top-15 Brewer lists so the scouts think he has potential, but he's a long ways off from the majors and hasn't even pitched in advanced A yet.

He's not garbage, but he is the sort of guy I'd be happy with if he was thrown in as prospect #3 behind 2 nice prospects.

He looks like the #1 in this trade.

[DeezNutz]

Wait, $12.5 million and $13.5 million is an extreme value? How much would he expect to get if he was due a free agent contract this year?

$20M+.

[alnorth]

Just comparing what the Padres got for Peavy compared to what they got for Adrian Gonzalez.

If Greinke was due less money, I think you could get more for him. I am just surprised he gets paid that much.

dude, he's getting way under market value. He's probably worth closer to $17MM per year, and a lot higher if he repeats 2009. The cost of front-line pitchers has gone WAY the hell up recently, if his next two years are good his next contract will be big.

Thats part of the reason why people were expecting a haul, Greinke is under contract for a nice bargain.

[Buck]

$20M+.

Jesus Christ.

[tk13]

Wait, $12.5 million and $13.5 million is an extreme value? How much would he expect to get if he was due a free agent contract this year?

Just as one example... the Rockies resigned Jorge De La Rosa for $10 million a year a few weeks ago.

[Buck]

Just as one example... the Rockies resigned Jorge De La Rosa for $10 million a year a few weeks ago.

What the fuck?

Damn I am out of the loop.

Padres just paid Orlando Hudson $5.5 Mil a year over 2 years and I thought that was a big contract. Fucking Padres.

How much did Cliff Lee just get?

[tk13]

The funny thing is this Brewers writer is out there saying he believes the Royals have to be sending another player to Milwaukee for a deal like this.

[alnorth]

How much did Cliff Lee just get?

heh. Amount per year over the life of the contract, I think he's the highest-paid pitcher in baseball, he's getting more than Sabathia.

[tk13]

What the ****?

Damn I am out of the loop.

Padres just paid Orlando Hudson $5.5 Mil a year over 2 years and I thought that was a big contract. ****ing Padres.

How much did Cliff Lee just get?

5 years, $120 million... and he most likely turned down bigger offers from New York and Texas.

[DeezNutz]

The funny thing is this Brewers writer is out there saying he believes the Royals have to be sending another player to Milwaukee for a deal like this.

Yeah, we're sending Roberto Alomar, to this motherfucker's house, simply because this douche has me pissed off.

[Buck]

5 years, $120 million... and he most likely turned down bigger offers from New York and Texas.

What the fuck?

Im going to go sit in the fucking corner and sulk now.

[The Rick]

I'm a Brewers fan and just heard about the trade. Awesome! I never in my wildest dreams thought we'd land him!

[DeezNutz]

What the ****?

Im going to go sit in the ****ing corner and sulk now.

Hey, cheer up. In two years you'll be owning some awesome looking Los Angeles Chargers gear.

[tk13]

What the ****?

Im going to go sit in the ****ing corner and sulk now.

The FA market has gone through the roof the last couple years. That's why people can't wait to see what Pujols is going to ask for in this market when he's a FA after this year.

[alnorth]

What the ****?

Im going to go sit in the ****ing corner and sulk now.

The good news is that revenue has come up a bit, even for small market teams. There's more water being poured into this river, some of it has to flood over somewhere, and apparently its running up Ace Pitcher creek.

[alnorth]

I'm a Brewers fan and just heard about the trade. Awesome! I never in my wildest dreams thought we'd land him!

dont celebrate yet. It was reported by a blogger. This trade is so awful that no one believes DM is stupid enough to do it.

[Rams Fan]

What the ****?

Im going to go sit in the ****ing corner and sulk now.

They just traded for Bartlett. So that adds another 4 million to the payroll. How much did Harang sign for?

[Buck]

They just traded for Bartlett. So that adds another 4 million to the payroll. How much did Harang sign for?

I dont know. I doubt it was anything more than $3 Million though. Dude is a scrubzilla.

[alnorth]

A Daily magazine in Milwaukee is now running with the rumor'd 4-player version of the deal.

http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/brewersgreinketrade.html

[Rams Fan]

I dont know. I doubt it was anything more than $3 Million though. Dude is a scrubzilla.

Oh, I almost forgot Luddy's $8 Million in arbitration. So who's at 1B now that Gonzalez is gone?

[Buck]

Oh, I almost forgot Luddy's $8 Million in arbitration. So who's at 1B now that Gonzalez is gone?

I think Kyle Blanks is who they plan putting there. I'd like to see them at least go after a vet FA. I am in the Padres are going to suck camp though. I think they'll get about 73 wins next year.

[DeezNutz]

Let's say this deal comes to fruition: guess the year that DM will be fired.

[CaliforniaChief]

I think Kyle Blanks is who they plan putting there. I'd like to see them at least go after a vet FA. I am in the Padres are going to suck camp though. I think they'll get about 73 wins next year.

I listen to XX1090 quite often. They seem to be saying that it's either Derrek Lee or Adam LaRoche that they're targeting, but that Lee is spooked by Petco.

[alnorth]

Brewer fans have become a bit less excited upon hearing they were losing Odorizzi. Dont get me wrong, he's a nice prospect but I didn't think he's all that good yet until he proves himself. He had one great year in A-ball. Could be a case of Brewer fans overvaluing their own prospects.

[Rams Fan]

I think Kyle Blanks is who they plan putting there. I'd like to see them at least go after a vet FA. I am in the Padres are going to suck camp though. I think they'll get about 73 wins next year.

Keep your chin up, though. It's better that Hoyer traded Gonzalez now than at the deadline when his highest value was during the offseason. I'm interested in how Maybin will play this year. I don't think he was given a chance to succeed with the Marlins. I also think trading Heath Bell sometime during the season could help the Padres out even more.

[tk13]

Brewer fans have become a bit less excited upon hearing they were losing Odorizzi. Dont get me wrong, he's a nice prospect but I didn't think he's all that good yet until he proves himself. He had one great year in A-ball. Could be a case of Brewer fans overvaluing their own prospects.

Yeah but that goes both ways. There are Brewer fans out there probably thinking they traded four very highly touted players for a guy who may or may not have mental problems and a SS who might be the worst everyday player in baseball.

[DeezNutz]

Brewer fans have become a bit less excited upon hearing they were losing Odorizzi. Dont get me wrong, he's a nice prospect but I didn't think he's all that good yet until he proves himself. He had one great year in A-ball. Could be a case of Brewer fans overvaluing their own prospects.

Are you looking at the WPI version of Brewers boards or what? Anyone remotely negative about this trade from a Milwaukee perspective is dumb as all fuck.

[Rams Fan]

I listen to XX1090 quite often. They seem to be saying that it's either Derrek Lee or Adam LaRoche that they're targeting, but that Lee is spooked by Petco.

Lee started his career with the Padres originally. If they sign LaRoche, they better platoon him with Blanks the first half of the season.

[Buck]

Keep your chin up, though. It's better that Hoyer traded Gonzalez now than at the deadline when his highest value was during the offseason. I'm interested in how Maybin will play this year. I don't think he was given a chance to succeed with the Marlins. I also think trading Heath Bell sometime during the season could help the Padres out even more.

I definitely like our 2-3 year outlook. I think we'll win the NL West within 3 or 4 years, and compete, but right now our starting staff is just ugly.

[alnorth]

On one side we've got a couple questionable "news" outlets from Milwaukee saying yes, on the other side the organizations traditionally tasked with baseball rumormongering are refusing to run with it because they dont think DM is that stupid.

[Rams Fan]

I definitely like our 2-3 year outlook. I think we'll win the NL West within 3 or 4 years, and compete, but right now our starting staff is just ugly.

Correia was an underrated starter for the Padres, IMO. I just looked at the Padres roster. Jeez, aside from Richard and Latos, the rotation looks like crap.

[CaliforniaChief]

On one side we've got a couple questionable "news" outlets from Milwaukee saying yes, on the other side the organizations traditionally tasked with baseball rumormongering are refusing to run with it because they dont think DM is that stupid.

here's one of those links:

http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/brewersgreinketrade.html?24690

[Buck]

Correia was an underrated starter for the Padres, IMO. I just looked at the Padres roster. Jeez, aside from Richard and Latos, the rotation looks like crap.

Correia was the "De Facto" worst pitcher on the Padres Starting Rotation last year.

[alnorth]

Let's say this deal comes to fruition: guess the year that DM will be fired.

If we contend or win a division in the next 5 years in spite of him, we're stuck with him for a while. If we flop spectacularly and are losing 90-100 games through 2014-2015 DM's gone anyway. If its somewhere in between (.500 ball, close, no cigar) then who knows.

Oddly enough we're so focused on mission 2012 I dont think the Greinke trade will decide his fate.

[alnorth]

another thought, if we lose both Yuni and Greinke in one fell swoop, our payroll just got mega-slashed.

[Rams Fan]

Correia was the "De Facto" worst pitcher on the Padres Starting Rotation last year.

Didn't realize his ERA ballooned that much from 2009. I'd rather have him over Harang, though. What does the starting OF look like right now? Ludwick, Maybin and Blanks(assuming a 1B is signed)?

[CaliforniaChief]

Where's Sure Oz? Hopefully he's blasting Twitter with false rumors. God I'm freaking out.

[duncan_idaho]

If the deal is Greinke for Odorizzi, Jeffries, Escobar, and Cain, I'm a little disappointed.

It doesn't include the near-ready or MLB-ready starter I was expecting (unless they plan to return Jeffries to the rotation).

It has the potential to pay off in spades - if Cain's 2010 was a breakthrough and Escobar lives up to his original hype - but it's much less of a sure thing than you'd ideally want for a Greinke.

I know the Royals have some former Brewers guys in their front office, so I'm sure they have a good eval on all these guys.

[alnorth]

I can already feel myself starting to rationalize this.

Odorizzi is the nice throw-in who could be a future ace. His A-ball numbers were really really good. If Escobar's horrific 2010 was an adjustment period and he progresses to his AAA numbers in the majors, he becomes a highly valuable player (but my God trading for him as the centerpiece is unbelievably risky). Cain could be a speedy defender with mad OBP skills. Jeffress... umm.... he's our setup man, yeah thats it. (but make damned sure he doesnt get arrested for pot, I assume Missouri laws are strict)

Its sad. The possibility does exist that we win this trade, but thats an awful lot of ifs, maybes, and "hes really talented, but" 's

edit: oh yeah, and we got rid of Yuni. Addition by subtraction.

[DeezNutz]

I have a hard time writing Escobar's 2010 off as an adjustment because his OBP and defense were abysmal. These, especially the latter, should not translate so poorly.

[tk13]

Honestly, I thought we were going to do worse if this is the deal. But that probably isn't saying much. I also think that if this is the deal, I don't think they project Jeffress as a reliever.

[Sure-Oz]

Where's Sure Oz? Hopefully he's blasting Twitter with false rumors. God I'm freaking out.

I wish dude....im freaking out at Xmas party reading this rumor.

[DeezNutz]

If this is the deal, it's a disaster on paper, and our worst fears about having an incompetent GM locked in on specific positions, talent be damned, will have been realized.

We're not trading garbage. This exchange for Greinke is nothing short of Beltran II.

[CaliforniaChief]

I just don't get it. Zack wants to play for a team that's going to contend and he would be content with Milwaukee? I just really don't see them in a much better position than us, considering that Fielder is almost certainly going to be gone soon.

[tk13]

I just don't get it. Zack wants to play for a team that's going to contend and he would be content with Milwaukee? I just really don't see them in a much better position than us, considering that Fielder is almost certainly going to be gone soon.

Their top three would be Greinke, Gallardo, and Marcum. That's pretty solid.

[Sure-Oz]

I can already feel myself starting to rationalize this.

Odorizzi is the nice throw-in who could be a future ace. His A-ball numbers were really really good. If Escobar's horrific 2010 was an adjustment period and he progresses to his AAA numbers in the majors, he becomes a highly valuable player (but my God trading for him as the centerpiece is unbelievably risky). Cain could be a speedy defender with mad OBP skills. Jeffress... umm.... he's our setup man, yeah thats it. (but make damned sure he doesnt get arrested for pot, I assume Missouri laws are strict)

Its sad. The possibility does exist that we win this trade, but thats an awful lot of ifs, maybes, and "hes really talented, but" 's

edit: oh yeah, and we got rid of Yuni. Addition by subtraction.

Rany almost likes the real if odorizzi is included

[DeezNutz]

Yeah, and Rany's last argument about the club being in a COMPLETELY different place from '04 was absolute garbage and flat out wrong. And I respect Rany's opinions.

[alnorth]

I'm being told that Odorizzi was going to be the Brewers #1 prospect for 2011. OK, fine lets assume thats true. He's still an A-ball stud pitcher, plenty of room to fail. If the scouts are that high on him, the deal sucks a little less.

[Bowser]

Let's say this deal comes to fruition: guess the year that DM will be fired.

If this deal comes to fruition, I say we all hop in Bill and Ted's telephone booth and go back to make sure his mom and dad never meet.

[KevB]

Rany saying he might like the deal if Odorizzi is included. I'm withholding judgement until I hear one way or the other. I like the idea of adding plus defense up the middle along with two power arms to go with the pitching we already have in the system. Question is....would we be getting plus defense for Escobar and Cain?

[DeezNutz]

I'm being told that Odorizzi was going to be the Brewers #1 prospect for 2011. OK, fine lets assume thats true. He's still an A-ball stud pitcher, plenty of room to fail. If the scouts are that high on him, the deal sucks a little less.

I was serious when I said earlier that he would be the best prospect in this deal. And that's what's so fucking sickening.

[CaliforniaChief]

Odorizzi sounds like a Wal Mart knockoff of Febreze. Just saying.

[alnorth]

Rany saying he might like the deal if Odorizzi is included. I'm withholding judgement until I hear one way or the other. I like the idea of adding plus defense up the middle along with two power arms to go with the pitching we already have in the system. Question is....would we be getting plus defense for Escobar and Cain?

Escobar was supposed to not just be a plus defender, but a plus-plus SS. He inexplicably sucked on defense in his first year with the Brewers. Cain's limited upside is as a stereotypical speedy defender in the outfield who you hope doesnt suck at the plate.

This deal hinges on Escobar, and we'll find out very quickly if its going to work. If Escobar rebounds and has a good year as a sophomore, then we've got a decent chance to win this thing. If he repeats 2010, the deal is likely going to be a f**king disaster, barring a possible Greinke v2 in 3-4 years from Odorizzi.

[DeezNutz]

LMAO at the fact that I was balking at Drabek and Snider.

Is that deal still on the table? Please?!!??

[KevB]

Other interesting piece to this is the Brewers draining their system for Greinke and Marcum.

[Bowser]

Rany saying he might like the deal if Odorizzi is included. I'm withholding judgement until I hear one way or the other. I like the idea of adding plus defense up the middle along with two power arms to go with the pitching we already have in the system. Question is....would we be getting plus defense for Escobar and Cain?

And at what point do we go about addressing the severe lack of power in our lineup? If you're going to trade your surefire ace, the ONE GUY that can bring a trade that can actually bring instant help to your major league roster via a trade, you'd best damned well get some reliable power back to put in the lineup.

[DeezNutz]

And at what point do we go about addressing the sever lack of power in our lineup? If you're going to trade your surefire ace, the ONE GUY that can bring a trade that can actually bring instant help to your major league roster via a trade, you'd best damned well get some reliable power back to put in the lineup.

I like the idea of getting position players who can hit.

[CaliforniaChief]

And at what point do we go about addressing the sever lack of power in our lineup? If you're going to trade your surefire ace, the ONE GUY that can bring a trade that can actually bring instant help to your major league roster via a trade, you'd best damned well get some reliable power back to put in the lineup.

Just wait. They'll throw Prince Fielder in just to be able to get Kendall back.

[Bowser]

Just wait. They'll throw Prince Fielder in just to be able to get Kendall back.

Kendall is a gamer; Heart of a Champion. I heard that on a Royals broadcast once.

[duncan_idaho]

I'm going to hold out hope that this is a rumor, part of an opening salvo of trade rumors.

Escobar stlll is highly thought of - he's just a year removed from being a top 15 prospect. I could see that being used for leverage by Moore... "Well, the Brewers are willing to give up Escobar, their top young player. You'll have to beat that..."

I've been a Moore defender. That will probably end if he trades Zack for that package. I could be proven wrong if Escobar rakes, Jeffress is productive, and Odorizzi continues to shine. But I don't see all three of those things happening.

There are a lot of trades I'd much rather see, honestly. Even something like Greinke straight up for a guy like Mike Trout.

[alnorth]

Imagine if tomorrow morning we wake up to find out that this deal was a drug-induced fantasy by some chatty guy in a minor role within the Brewers organization.

The psychological trauma of this would mean we'll probably be very happy about a potential deal from someone else that we would have snubbed just a couple days ago.

[tk13]

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/07/27/10/Futures-Market-/landing.html?blockID=278305&feedID=5067

This would be some irony... an article from this past season where his pitching coach compares Odorizzi to Greinke.

[KevB]

And at what point do we go about addressing the severe lack of power in our lineup? If you're going to trade your surefire ace, the ONE GUY that can bring a trade that can actually bring instant help to your major league roster via a trade, you'd best damned well get some reliable power back to put in the lineup.

Obviously that's an issue, but perhaps there wasn't any power to be had in terms of offers from other teams? I'm reaching here, but that's a possibility (of course, counter argument is, why trade now then?). I'm sure DM is expecting power to come from Moose and Hosmer, but that's not enough. Maybe with the money we're saving, they have their eyes on a subsequent trade/free agent to get some power?

[tk13]

I think at this point we're clearly banking that our power is going to be Hosmer, Moose, Myers, hopefully Butler. Develop your own power.

[DeezNutz]

Obviously that's an issue, but perhaps there wasn't any power to be had in terms of offers from other teams? I'm reaching here, but that's a possibility (of course, counter argument is, why trade now then?). I'm sure DM is expecting power to come from Moose and Hosmer, but that's not enough. Maybe with the money we're saving, they have their eyes on a subsequent trade/free agent to get some power?

This hasn't been getting enough play. Are we or are we not supposed to be following the MN model? Do we believe that ownership will be this committed? That "small market" team up in MN, who also has a new park, is now spending serious cash.

Will the Royals?

$70M will be well into the bottom half of the league this coming season.

[Bowser]

I think at this point we're clearly banking that our power is going to be Hosmer, Moose, Myers, hopefully Butler. Develop your own power.

Let's hope that Billy isn't the bell curve on what they expect "power" to be. Doubles are nice and all, but we need someone to be a home run threat in our lineup, and a guy like grienke SHOULD be able to bring someone like that in a trade. And I'm all for the young guys to make it up here and rake, but if we're giving up on Grienke, I'd much rather have it pay dividends now.

[Bowser]

This hasn't been getting enough play. Are we or are we not supposed to be following the MN model? Do we believe that ownership will be this committed? That "small market" team up in MN, who also has a new park, is now spending serious cash.

Will the Royals?

$70M will be well into the bottom half of the league this coming season.

David Glass can't hear your question all the way down in Bentonville.

[DeezNutz]

It seems as though the franchise-building model has followed a similar trajectory as the draft model: 180.

High-upside HS players! This is the ticket! Oh, wait. No, no, really what we want are college players! Yeah!

Let's get Hunter! Let's get Jones! Let's get ___! Oh, wait. Nope, we have to develop our own. 100 percent. Fill some holes here or there.

[eazyb81]

Can't a guy get drunk on the weekend without worrying about DM getting bent over on the Greinke trade?

Now Iwont be able to go to sleep without checking every site with news. God dam mitt.

[alnorth]

This hasn't been getting enough play. Are we or are we not supposed to be following the MN model? Do we believe that ownership will be this committed? That "small market" team up in MN, who also has a new park, is now spending serious cash.

Will the Royals?

$70M will be well into the bottom half of the league this coming season.

Our payroll will be unavoidably tiny this next season, and thats fine because we're going young.

The question really is what will happen if mission 2012 is a success, how many players will we keep?

[tk13]

Let's hope that Billy isn't the bell curve on what they expect "power" to be. Doubles are nice and all, but we need someone to be a home run threat in our lineup, and a guy like grienke SHOULD be able to bring someone like that in a trade. And I'm all for the young guys to make it up here and rake, but if we're giving up on Grienke, I'd much rather have it pay dividends now.

Everyone forgets Butler is only 24 years old because he's been around forever. He'd be around the same age as the "prospects" we'd be trading for in this deal. You can't give up on him yet.

[DeezNutz]

Our payroll will be unavoidably tiny this next season, and thats fine because we're going young.

The question really is what will happen if mission 2012 is a success, how many players will we keep?

And we have to supplement. We can't be 100 percent dependent on the draft. No one can, even if DM ends up being the world's greatest drafter.

Ideally, I'd like to see several of our big prospects come up, have early success, and get the Longoria treatment (immediate extension). Then, go out and get some legit first-tier talent. At least a player or two.

But we cannot be projecting $70M payrolls (in several years) and realistically expect to compete. What the **** happened to the revenue and projections from the "new" K?

[alnorth]

we may be selling Cain short, I was relying on his minor league stats on baseball reference. I didnt realize he already made the jump to the Brewers.

It is a tiny sample size, but he had a pretty good 43 games. Still not much power, but really good OBP and great defense. He turned in a solid 1.2 WAR in just 1/4 of a season.

I dont think hes a 5 WAR player, and theres a high chance that it was a sample-size fluke, but thats not bad at all.

[eazyb81]

Honest odds that the rumored Brewers trade is legit?

And where the fuck is Dutton's dumb ass to report on this? Maybe his silence speaks volumes...dm has told hi to keep it quiet u till official.

[Bowser]

Everyone forgets Butler is only 24 years old because he's been around forever. He'd be around the same age as the "prospects" we'd be trading for in this deal. You can't give up on him yet.

Don't get me wrong, here. I'm not giving up on Butler, I just hope we get a guy that actually hits, you know, home runs. Maybe if Billy decides to REALLY get into shape over the next couple/few offseasons, he may actually break that seemingly unattainable and mythical 36 home run plateau.

[eazyb81]

we may be selling Cain short, I was relying on his minor league stats on baseball reference. I didnt realize he already made the jump to the Brewers.

It is a tiny sample size, but he had a pretty good 43 games. Still not much power, but really good OBP and great defense. He turned in a solid 1.2 WAR in just 1/4 of a season.

I dont think hes a 5 WAR player, and theres a high chance that it was a sample-size fluke, but thats not bad at all.

Sure seems a lot like blanco and dyson.

[DeezNutz]

Ok, going to bed with the mindset that this has a 0 percent chance of being true. I'm going to try to sleep with the mindset that the GM of my favorite team is not a complete fucking idiot.

I may have to reevaluate this last statement in the morning.

[Bowser]

Ok, going to bed with the mindset that this has a 0 percent chance of being true. I'm going to try to sleep with the mindset that the GM of my favorite team is not a complete fucking idiot.

I may have to reevaluate this last statement in the morning.

Might I suggest a Xanax or five?

[KevB]

Ok, going to bed with the mindset that this has a 0 percent chance of being true. I'm going to try to sleep with the mindset that the GM of my favorite team is not a complete ****ing idiot.

I may have to reevaluate this last statement in the morning.

You've already been asleep....you're just visiting ghosts of baseball off-seasons past......:evil:

[KChiefs1]

http://www.thebrewersbar.com/

Brewer blogger on trade.

[KChiefs1]

Another interesting thread:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=1076834

[Reaper16]

Let's say this deal comes to fruition: guess the year that DM will be fired.
It'd better be 2010.

[alnorth]

If you want a laugh, a whole lot of Brewer fans whining about overpaying for Greinke can be found here. Put your drink down before clicking, or it might be spewed into your monitor.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/112137964.html?viewAll=1#comments

[tk13]

If you want a laugh, a whole lot of Brewer fans whining about overpaying for Greinke can be found here. Put your drink down before clicking, or it might be spewed into your monitor.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/112137964.html?viewAll=1#comments

Eh, it's not surprising. You have to realize the fans of other teams, like we've seen on these threads... think Greinke regressed last year. All of us know he's going to go somewhere and get his head on straight most likely dominate. But while we're sitting here arguing that we're getting a former elite SS prospect who had a terrible year last year... they are going to be saying they're trading four of their best young players for a former Cy Young winner who had an average year last year.

[alnorth]

copy-pasting a guy making the case for escobar

To the stat folk:
I think judging Escobar's 2010 season by just staring at his WAR is terribly misleading. Two things I can almost guarantee: First, UzR is going to rate his defense better in the future. This guy is excellent defensively, as any scout will attest, and if you want to get all statistical, his Total Zone rating had him at +22 runs and +11 runs his last two years in the minors. Let's not jump to the conclusion that this guy is overrated by scouts because of a small sample size. I think a projection of +5 to 10 runs is fair, Secondly, his BABIP last year was .264, when any projection system would've pegged him to have a BABIP of at least .320-.330. Normalize his BABIP and I'm guessing he's maybe 5-10 runs below average offensively for the year.

Also, consider his athleticism and his improved patience last year (36 BB was his career high at any level) and he might grow into a decent hitter

We'll see about the defense. I agree it is surprising to see a good defender in the minor leagues turn to crap for no good reason, and the advanced defensive stats are still young in this game.

His low BABIP is a good point, he's not going to be that unlucky forever. I dont care to do the math on what his line would have been with a normal BABIP, its late.

[duncan_idaho]

Couple of thoughts as I look at things in more detail...

1) Where are all the national guys? Olney, Rosenthal, Morosi, anyone? Funny that there is no noise there.

2) Cain had a nice showing all the way around last year. Solid MLB performance (though his BaBIP was a little high - .20 or so high for a speed guy). He has good minor league numbers with the exception of 2009, which was a disaster.

3) Odorizzi is definitely a high-upside guy, and someone that could end up being a huge piece 2-3 years down the road. If they acquire him and send him to NWA, that rotation will be absolutely sick (and loaded with potential No. 1s)

4) Escobar had a crappy 2010. That doesn't completely kill his value.

[Bowser]

Grienke would absolutely dominate in the National league.

[alnorth]

For what its worth, the Brewer beat reporter just said that he has been unable to confirm this from any of his contacts.