WTF is wrong with the San Diego Chargers?

[LaChapelle]

I still buy into the players are there. Is the NFL that close that special teams is enough to upset a playoff caliber team?

Is it coaching? Are they soft? WTF?

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Sense of entitlement.

[Demonpenz]

LT ment alot to that city and town

[ModSocks]

Sense of entitlement.

A big part of it. They are an arrogant team.

[Farzin]

Teams simply cannot expect to start slow and finish strong every single year. I got tired of hearing NFL fans say, "They'll catch up and win the division because they do it every year."

Also, what key players has Norv Turner brought in ever since he took over?

2007/08: 2 playoff wins

2008/09: 1 playoff win

2009/10: 0 playoff wins

2010/11: No playoff appearence

[ModSocks]

LT ment alot to that city and town

True as well. He did a lot for the community, the fans loved that guy.

[Rausch]

Horrible HC...

[Rausch]

Teams simply cannot expect to start slow and finish strong every single year. I got tired of hearing NFL fans say, "They'll catch up and win the division because they do it every year."

Also, what key players has Norv Turner brought in ever since he took over?

Bash Marty but I'm fucking ecstatic he's no longer there...

[Crush]

They have Norvelle Redenbacher Crunch as their head coach.

[LaChapelle]

I can't stand Deon Sanders. His trashing of AJ Smith's handling of players holding out has merit.

[Deberg_1990]

They make a TON of mental errors and mistakes.

Special teams mistakes, fumbles, bad ball exchanges, INt's, etc...

Just not a very disiplined team. Somebody still needs to explain to me why teams think Norv Turner is a good head coach.

[mlyonsd]

Any team that fires a head coach after a 14-2 season doesn't deserve to EVER go to the SB.

[Crush]

They also have Carl Jr. as their GM.

[Rain Man]

Four words:

In
Oh
Are
Fee

You'll have to break the code since I don't think that vee is really a word.

[TheGuardian]

Overrated.

I've been saying that for a while and no one gets it. That team is not as talented as people think they are. Rivers puts up nice stats, but the guy is NOT clutch. He's not. Never has been. I don't get why some on this board as so enamored with him. Last year some dufus even said they would take Rivers over Brees.

Their numbers say they should be awesome, but they aren't. Maybe because stats don't always tell the whole story in this case. Either way, coaching is a big part of it too. But they simply aren't as talented as people think they are.

[mlyonsd]

Four words:

In
Oh
Are
Fee

You'll have to break the code since I don't think that vee is really a word.

Yeah but he looks smart.

[BigMeatballDave]

Norv Turner

[Gadzooks]

They make a TON of mental errors and mistakes.

Special teams mistakes, fumbles, bad ball exchanges, INt's, etc...

Just not a very disiplined team. Somebody still needs to explain to me why teams think Norv Turner is a good head coach.

This. :shake:

[noa]

What I was surprised most by was how poorly Rivers played yesterday. His stat line wasn't bad, but he didn't do anything to lead a comeback and was throwing some pretty ugly passes towards the end.

[ReynardMuldrake]

Laziness and poor coaching all around.

[ModSocks]

Overrated.

I've been saying that for a while and no one gets it. That team is not as talented as people think they are. Rivers puts up nice stats, but the guy is NOT clutch. He's not. Never has been. I don't get why some on this board as so enamored with him. Last year some dufus even said they would take Rivers over Brees.

Their numbers say they should be awesome, but they aren't. Maybe because stats don't always tell the whole story in this case. Either way, coaching is a big part of it too. But they simply aren't as talented as people think they are.

Say wha????

The Chargers are plenty talented, and Rivers IS an elite QB. They suck because of a soft HC. They aren't in shape like other teams are, even Gates looks soft compared to most NFL players. They're sloppy and and not mentally strong.

all of that lays on the feet of their HC.

[Buck]

They fucking suck, thats what's wrong. It starts at the top.

I'm not talking about Norv, I'm talking about our POS owner who doesn't give a shit about winning.

[ModSocks]

They ****ing suck, thats what's wrong. It starts at the top.

I'm not talking about Norv, I'm talking about our POS owner who doesn't give a shit about winning.

Horse shit. Don't be one of THOSE typical SD fans Buck. I hear you guys chirping this and that all day long. Most of you guys sound like a bunch of bandwagon cry babies.

You don't win the division title for the first time in 5 years and you hear jackasses calling in and crying, "Im so fed up with this team, I will no longer support them until Blah blah blah is fired".

AJ smith has done a good job of finding talent. The owner pay his players that deserve to be paid, and as long as Rivers is there the Chargers will always be in contention.

[Saul Good]

If we play our cards right, this could be our division for years.

[ModSocks]

If we play our cards right, this could be our division for years.

If we play our cards right, this will end up being a tough rivalry that goes back and forth every year. The charger will always be contenders with Rivers.

[|Zach|]

Paper tigers.

[Buck]

Horse shit. Don't be one of THOSE typical SD fans Buck. I hear you guys chirping this and that all day long. Most of you guys sound like a bunch of bandwagon cry babies.

You don't win the division title for the first time in 5 years and you hear jackasses calling in and crying, "Im so fed up with this team, I will no longer support them until Blah blah blah is fired".

AJ smith has done a good job of finding talent. The owner pay his players that deserve to be paid, and as long as Rivers is there the Chargers will always be in contention.

Bull fucking shit.

If the owner had any balls then Norv would have never been our head coach.

Anyways I'm not a typical fan and I've hated the Spanos's forever. Its the way my dad raised me.

[gblowfish]

One word:

Norv.

[ModSocks]

Bull ****ing shit.

If the owner had any balls then Norv would have never been our head coach.

Anyways I'm not a typical fan and I've hated the Spanos's forever. Its the way my dad raised me.

Like it or not, But Norv has built a great offense. A consistant top 5 offense. I know all the blame lays at his feet, but he's done some good work with that team as well.

And Im going to laugh when he's gone and that offensive production sinks after he's gone. Norv's problem is that he's too relaxed. Every coach has their weakness. Norv's weakness is that he has a vagina.

And Dean Spano's had no problem giving LT his second contract or paying Rivers and McNeil.

[JohninGpt]

Yeah but he looks smart.

No, he looks like someone set his head on fire and put it out with an icepick.

[Buck]

Like it or not, But Norv has built a great offense. A consistant top 5 offense. I know all the blame lays at his feet, but he's done some good work with that team as well.

And Im going to laugh when he's gone and that offensive production sinks after he's gone. Norv's problem is that he's too relaxed. Every coach has their weakness. Norv's weakness is that he has a vagina.

And Dean Spano's had no problem giving LT his second contract or paying Rivers and McNeil.

What about the HUGE Contracts he gave to Jyles Tucker and Luis Castillo?

Thats not really what I am talking about though. He doesn't run a tight ship.

[LaChapelle]

They suck for a decade and amassed great talent with high draft picks
those picks are starting to need replaced with lower rung draft picks
If Al Davis wasn't so inept at drafting they could of replaced the Chargers

[Consistent1]

Mathews had a lot of issues this year which didn't help. Everybody thought the guy was going to walk into a nice situation and kick butt, but the reality of being a rook was there along with injuries. Tolbert is a pretty decent hard-ass back, but they could have used another productive runner with some different skills. Sproles is not the answer to that.

[mlyonsd]

No, he looks like someone set his head on fire and put it out with an icepick.

Definitely a poster child for using sun screen.

[dirk digler]

Like it or not, But Norv has built a great offense. A consistant top 5 offense. I know all the blame lays at his feet, but he's done some good work with that team as well.

And Im going to laugh when he's gone and that offensive production sinks after he's gone. Norv's problem is that he's too relaxed. Every coach has their weakness. Norv's weakness is that he has a vagina.

And Dean Spano's had no problem giving LT his second contract or paying Rivers and McNeil.

Their offense was just as good or better with Marty and their D was consistently better.

It just seems to me they have been living off Marty's players and haven't been successful in replacing them.

[vailpass]

Overrated.

I've been saying that for a while and no one gets it. That team is not as talented as people think they are. Rivers puts up nice stats, but the guy is NOT clutch. He's not. Never has been. I don't get why some on this board as so enamored with him. Last year some dufus even said they would take Rivers over Brees.

Their numbers say they should be awesome, but they aren't. Maybe because stats don't always tell the whole story in this case. Either way, coaching is a big part of it too. But they simply aren't as talented as people think they are.

Do you think KC has more talent than SD?

[DaFace]

The consistent slow starts and fast finishes are a HUGE indicator that coaching is the problem. Or at least one of the biggest problems.

[Braincase]

LaDanian Tomlinson put a voodoo curse on 'em. I've seen the dolls.

[BigMeatballDave]

Playing like complete ass when your playoff life is on the line against a shit team that has nothing to play for is a HUGE red flag on Coaching.

[Frosty]

Coaching is number one, but I haven't been real impressed with San Diego's drafts since Marty left either. It seems like that has affected their depth and it is starting to catch up with them.

[Bowser]

I think for this year in particular, they really underestimated the AFC West, especially the Raiders. They kind of had the feel of being on cruise control, and I think they just bought into the national hype of how they were just destined to turn it on after Thanksgiving. Add in the way Rivers was just steamrolling the first 2/3rds of the season, and they undoubtedly thought there was no way they could lose the West, shitty special teams or no.

[Bob Dole]

One word: Who cares?

Wait...that's two words.

Two words: Bob Dole likes it.

Wait...that's four words. Or does a proper name count as one word? Shit. This "one word" crap is tougher than it looks. Is "Chahahahahahahahahargers" a word?

[ModSocks]

The consistent slow starts and fast finishes are a HUGE indicator that coaching is the problem. Or at least one of the biggest problems.

It is the biggest problem. The talent is there. He runs loose soft camp and it shows in his players attitudes, physique and performance. they are not a tight ship.

That TD pass that sealed the game yesterday was because they couldn't get the defensive play called in time. That's pathetic. All on coaching.

They need to replace Norv, no doubt, but I think the offensive production will drop when they do. Double edged sword IMO.

[Bowser]

Coaching is number one, but I haven't been real impressed with San Diego's drafts since Marty left either. It seems like that has affected their depth and it is starting to catch up with them.

They curb stomped us a few weeks back, but there is no question that Haley FAR outcoached Norv this year. None.

[Bowser]

One word: Who cares?

Wait...that's two words.

Two words: Bob Dole likes it.

Wait...that's four words. Or does a proper name count as one word? Shit. This "one word" crap is tougher than it looks. Is "Chahahahahahahahahargers" a word?

Great. Now my brain hurts.

[ModSocks]

Their offense was just as good or better with Marty and their D was consistently better.

It just seems to me they have been living off Marty's players and haven't been successful in replacing them.

IIRC, their passing game wasn't nearly as potent as it it today. They had LT and Gates. That's it.

[tiptap]

All parts of the Chargers organization had a part in this years record. The refusal to get your best players under contract and on the field and compounding it with additional delays led to a depletion in talent on Special Teams which showed up early on. Norv's willingness, (not unlike Vermeil's with the Chief's), to leave the Defensive side of football to fend for itself (see Bengal's TD on a unready Defense). Then add in the injuries and the willingness to try and pick your games to play your best players in order to be ready for the playoffs sort of backfired. And finally SD was not ready to play on that frozen stadium of Cinncinnati and that is all on a lack of respect for your opponents. And this is the NFL and on any given Sunday. . .

[dirk digler]

Do you think KC has more talent than SD?

I think we are pretty close

[2bikemike]

I disagree with those that say that team doesn't have talent. It is a very talented group. However they are not a well coached team. If you look at Norv Turners record he has like 3 good seasons 1 with Washington and 2 with San Diego where he has double digit wins. He has only 4 seasons with 9 wins or more. (it will be 5 if they win next week) and this is his 13th season as a HC. He has 98 wins and 105 losses.

[Bowser]

Do you think KC has more talent than SD?

With the exception of wide receiver, you could argue we do. It's certainly pretty damned close, either way.

[TheGuardian]

Do you think KC has more talent than SD?

Certainly as much. I think more than anything their "talent" is vastly overrated.

[Frosty]

They curb stomped us a few weeks back, but there is no question that Haley FAR outcoached Norv this year. None.

They definitely have a lot of talent now but it seems like most of it is still from the Marty years. As those players age and/or leave, the team should drop off quickly. Then coaching will really be exposed.

[vailpass]

I think we are pretty close

The point I was getting at was that I disagree with the assessment that SD isn't the most talented team in the West.
The fact that KC won the West this year even though SD is the more talented team tells me coaching needs a good hard look (as many others in this thread have stated).
With the offense SD has there is no reason they shouldn't win the weak West.

[vailpass]

Certainly as much. I think more than anything their "talent" is vastly overrated.

QB?
WR?
TE?

[dirk digler]

IIRC, their passing game wasn't nearly as potent as it it today. They had LT and Gates. That's it.

True but their running game was a ton better with a younger LT and Michael Turner.

[TheGuardian]

QB?
WR?
TE?

They have talent I just think it's overrated. At some point you have to win in order to be considered elite. They choke. They aren't any more talented than this Chiefs team IMO, from top to bottom.

[2bikemike]

The point I was getting at was that I disagree with the assessment that SD isn't the most talented team in the West.
The fact that KC won the West this year even though SD is the more talented team tells me coaching needs a good hard look (as many others in this thread have stated).
With the offense SD has there is no reason they shouldn't win the weak West.

This,
The defense isn't too shabby either. I know some will argue that stats don't matter. But you can't pile up stats like that without some talent. So the blame has to fall on other factors. Which IMHO is coaching. Norv's record speaks for itself.

[vailpass]

They have talent I just think it's overrated. At some point you have to win in order to be considered elite. They choke. They aren't any more talented than this Chiefs team IMO, from top to bottom.

Fair enough.No question that it doesn't matter how much talent you have, if you can't translate that into Ws it is fail.

[dirk digler]

The point I was getting at was that I disagree with the assessment that SD isn't the most talented team in the West.
The fact that KC won the West this year even though SD is the more talented team tells me coaching needs a good hard look (as many others in this thread have stated).
With the offense SD has there is no reason they shouldn't win the weak West.

I agree with that. I would just say that their talent isn't as far ahead as it used to be and I think by next year we will match them or overtake them.

[vailpass]

I agree with that. I would just say that their talent isn't as far ahead as it used to be and I think by next year we will match them or overtake them.

Having just won the division I can see why you would have reason to feel that way.

[Chief Faithful]

Just not a very disiplined team.
:thumb:

The mark of a Norv Turner team.

[2bikemike]

:thumb:

The mark of a Norv Turner team.

May he coach in SD forever!

[dirk digler]

Having just won the division I can see why you would have reason to feel that way.

Going into this season the biggest discrepancy was at the QB position. With the way Cassel is playing that is no longer the case. (I am not saying he is equal to Rivers btw)

They have better depth at the WR position but I would take Bowe over Jackson and Gates is getting older and is getting hurt more often now and we have a young stud TE just starting out.

I think with another great draft and bring in some quality FA's and I think it is possible to overtake them.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Phyllis Rivers always throws picks in crucial situations, just like he did yesterday.

And their so-called "number 1 defense" really isn't very good, which they also proved yesterday.

[WebGem]

Well for starters Norv Turner is pretty terrible

[KC_Connection]

They are a team of chokers led by the biggest choker QB of all, Phillip Rivers. And that isn't even mentioning their poor head coach.

[OzarksChiefsFan]

A.J. Smith, mainly. Lets be real, Philip Rivers is an elite QB, who kept them winning with subpar receivers. Norv is not much of a game day coach,"example they suddenly realized they were going to lose the wind rushed the play and it turned into an INT". Talent they have above average skill position players and their bigs are better than most teams. They have swagger or arrogance but what good team doesn't? This year the ball bounced our way, next year we should be better but so should they. I don't want them to fire Norv or A.J they might be the difference in the years to come. GO CHIEFS!

[B_Ambuehl]

Buck is right. It starts at the very top. Ownership would rather save money than win football games. Look at team spending by team going into this year. Only the Bucs and Chiefs were below the Chargers.

Since '07 the team has less contributing draft picks than any team in the NFL. AJ Smith has traded away five 1st day draft picks (rnd 1-3) in the last 4 years. The bottom of the roster was devoid of NFL caliber talent to open the season and that cost them big time in special teams. Go back and watch the Monday night opener vs the Chiefs and who they had out there trying to cover kicks. It was easily the slowest ST coverage unit I've seen in 10 years.

Couple that with Norv's consistent bad game management, clock management, and a QB that holds onto the ball and you're generally going to underperform.

[Rausch]

:drool:

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[ArrowheadHawk]

They suck.

[Earthling]

Chargers biggest problem is they can't take their own refs on the road when they play...

[Frazod]

They are a team of chokers led by the biggest choker QB of all, Phillip Rivers. And that isn't even mentioning their poor head coach.

He's the Jared Allen of quarterbacks - big stats when it doesn't matter - vanishes like a fart in the wind when it does.

[Saul Good]

Having just won the division I can see why you would have reason to feel that way.

It's not just that we won it. It's HOW we won it. We went wire to wire with a ridiculously young team, and we're likely going to win it by 2 games.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

He's the Jared Allen of quarterbacks - big stats when it doesn't matter - vanishes like a fart in the wind when it does.

Yep. When has this guy ever showed up for a big game? What has he accomplished that is of any importance? He is, in my opinion, the most overrated QB in the NFL.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Just looked up Rivers' career postseason numbers: 7 games, 8 touchdowns, 9 interceptions.

[Gadzooks]

I disagree with the comments saying that Rivers is a choker. He's not the problem at all. If anything he keeps them in games where they should be blown out.
W/o the 8 blocked punts, (or even with 1/2 of them) the Chargers would be in the playoffs.
The reason the O was so good while Marty was there is because Cam Cameron was the OC. He's a Norf disciple. Funny how Norf hasn’t developed anyone to even take over as OC if he leaves. Clarence Shelmon is OC in title only, (he makes the coffee).

[Mama Hip Rockets]

I disagree with the comments saying that Rivers is a choker. He's not the problem at all. If anything he keeps them in games where they should be blown out.
W/o the 8 blocked punts, (or even with 1/2 of them) the Chargers would be in the playoffs.
The reason the O was so good while Marty was there is because Cam Cameron was the OC. He's a Norf disciple. Funny how Norf hasn’t developed anyone to even take over as OC if he leaves. Clarence Shelmon is OC in title only, (he makes the coffee).

As I have already mentioned, Rivers has been horrible in the postseason throughout his career. He also threw a crucial pick in the second half yesterday when the Chargers were just starting to gain momentum. The pick led to a Cincinnati touchdown.

To say Rivers is not part of the problem is foolish.

[Gadzooks]

As I have already mentioned, Rivers has been horrible in the postseason throughout his career. He also threw a crucial pick in the second half yesterday when the Chargers were just starting to gain momentum. The pick led to a Cincinnati touchdown.

To say Rivers is not part of the problem is foolish.

I wish I could agree, but Rivers playoff record is not a reflection of his play. It's a problem with the whole team and their mental errors at critical times of the game.
It started with the NE playoff loss, where Marty was fired after a 14-2 season, and continues to this day. In that game there was a fumble on an INT that would have sealed the game, a stupid head butt penalty, etc... Since then it's been a comedy of errors, (KOs returned for TDS, blocked punts, the ball bouncing off a guys helmet because he wasen't looking the ball, list goes on and on).
Rivers had 1 INT yesterday. Is Sh-eli clutch. Sure he won the SB right? well he threw 4 pics yesterday in a crucial game for the Giants to make the playoffs. You wouldn't see Rivers do that.

[KC_Connection]

I wish I could agree, but Rivers playoff record is not a reflection of his play. It's a problem with the whole team and their mental errors at critical times of the game.
It started with the NE playoff loss, where Marty was fired after a 14-2 season, and continues to this day. In that game there was a fumble on an INT that would have sealed the game, a stupid head butt penalty, etc... Since then it's been a comedy of errors, (KOs returned for TDS, blocked punts, the ball bouncing off a guys helmet because he wasen't looking the ball, list goes on and on).
Rivers had 1 INT yesterday. Is Sh-eli clutch. Sure he won the SB right? well he threw 4 pics yesterday in a crucial game for the Giants to make the playoffs. You wouldn't see Rivers do that.

That's because Rivers is a much better QB than Eli Manning. But he's way more of a choker in big games.

[Just Passin' By]

Million dollar talents with five cent heads. When you combine that with a substandard head coach, you've got a recipe for problems.

[Gadzooks]

That's because Rivers is a much better QB than Eli Manning. But he's way more of a choker in big games.

:banghead:

[JD10367]

The Chargers talent base is eroding, but as long as they have Norv Turner they'll be a force to be reckoned with.
















:rolleyes:

The above post was brought to you solely based on the chance that San Diego ownership reads this board. Thank you.

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

Norv is an awesome coach, they need to give that guy a lifetime contract

Signed, the rest of the AFC West

[Mama Hip Rockets]

I wish I could agree, but Rivers playoff record is not a reflection of his play. It's a problem with the whole team and their mental errors at critical times of the game.
It started with the NE playoff loss, where Marty was fired after a 14-2 season, and continues to this day. In that game there was a fumble on an INT that would have sealed the game, a stupid head butt penalty, etc... Since then it's been a comedy of errors, (KOs returned for TDS, blocked punts, the ball bouncing off a guys helmet because he wasen't looking the ball, list goes on and on).
Rivers had 1 INT yesterday. Is Sh-eli clutch. Sure he won the SB right? well he threw 4 pics yesterday in a crucial game for the Giants to make the playoffs. You wouldn't see Rivers do that.

He has 9 interceptions and 8 touchdowns in 7 career playoff games. You cannot argue with that. It's a fact. He's a choker.

[mlyonsd]

He has 9 interceptions and 8 touchdowns in 7 career playoff games. You cannot argue with that. It's a fact. He's a choker.

WR's can feel playoff pressure too and run wrong routes........just say'in.

Ok, no I'm not saying.

[thecoffeeguy]

Coaching, plain and simple.

Norv has never been a good HC wherever he has gone.

[Gadzooks]

He has 9 interceptions and 8 touchdowns in 7 career playoff games. You cannot argue with that. It's a fact. He's a choker.

Rapelisbuger had 5 interceptions and 3 touchdowns with a 61.3 QB Rating in the playoffs the first year he won a SB (0 TD to 2 INT in the SB). His team didn't make stupid bullshit mistakes and he won the ****in Superbowl.
You cannot argue with that.

[RJ]

Four words:

In
Oh
Are
Fee

You'll have to break the code since I don't think that vee is really a word.


Ok, give us a hint. What's it start with?

[vailpass]

It's not just that we won it. It's HOW we won it. We went wire to wire with a ridiculously young team, and we're likely going to win it by 2 games.

Can't argue with that. KC won all the games they were supposed to (not easy) and a few they maybe weren't supposed to. You have reason to be optimistic.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Rapelisbuger had 5 interceptions and 3 touchdowns with a 61.3 QB Rating in the playoffs the first year he won a SB (0 TD to 2 INT in the SB). His team didn't make stupid bullshit mistakes and he won the ****in Superbowl.
You cannot argue with that.

I fail to see what Roethlisberger's one crappy postseason has to do with the fact that Phyllis Rivers sucks.

[Gadzooks]

I fail to see what Roethlisberger's one crappy postseason has to do with the fact that Phyllis Rivers sucks.

I've found something you might find entertaining:
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[thecoffeeguy]

Found this post on a chargers board from a Redskin fan.
Very interesting.

I'm seeing a lot of threads pointing to various things, but there is a word for what happened last night.

Classic Norvitis. I've not seen it in 7 years, but I know the symptoms. Emotionally flat. Unfocused. Absurdly questionable play-calling. Inability to overcome adversity. Big-stakes game filled with bone-headed decisions.

It takes more than personnel and players, it takes a leader to make a winner.

Having the unique connection of being coached by both Norv and Marty, I can say this about the two of them whenever they lost:

Losses under Norv weren't just losses, they were always demoralizing and divisive, lifeless and mystifying events. When the Skins lost under Marty, there was still fight and fire, you could pick out exactly what went wrong, a few specific plays where the other team was better and made the right play. Norvitis losses are a giant cluster**** of misery, several things go wrong across the board at the worst moments.

I tried explaining a lot of this when Norv was hired but was mostly ignored, in some cases, insulted for daring to question A.J. Smith. A lot of you fans got real defensive. "We have talent, we have talent, Skins have always sucked, Norv is gonna be great".

Talent alone doesn't equal victory. Leadership + talent =victory.

Don't get me wrong. I think you're in store for some some brilliant games, where you think you've turned the corner.

But ultimately you also have to be prepared for these kind of Norvitis games. When the pressure's on, he can't deliver because he can't lead.

[Gadzooks]

Found this post on a chargers board from a Redskin fan.
Very interesting.

I'm familiar with the poster and, while it's well written, Marty cost us games. It was obvious when you watched the games, that Marty couldn't hack the pressure and thus caused problems with poor decisions. It's been his M.O. everywhere he's coached.
But he has a valid point in the sense that Norf is not a great motivator or leader.

[DTLB58]

A big part of it. They are an arrogant team.

Which is also what I think is catching up with the Jets. That D and secondary imparticular is nowhere near what they were last year. I think they have been listening to their coach to much and think they can just show.

Nothing would make me happier now that we have taken the West from the Chargers that we send the Jets home with a playoff loss :LOL: