CP Unity! Former haters have been dragged over the coals enough.

[|Zach|]

There were a lot of Chiefs\Cassel haters early around here. I think all reasonable fans (except for Mecca) have come to realize they made a shot and it didn't quite pan out.

On the brink of a big game against a rival and a home playoff game at Arrowhead for the first time in a long time lets bury the hatchet and the thread bumping and unite again as Chiefs fans. I think we got our pound of flesh.

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Lets go forth as a united fan base and rape the nostrils of all who oppose the Chiefs!

[BigMeatballDave]

Good idea. I suppose we still have the draft to fight about.

[CrazyHorse]

nah

[kstater]

Like hell they have.

[4th and Long]

You realize this is Chiefs Planet, right? Nothing ever dies here. Every time an argument even vaguely scabs over, someone comes along and picks off the scab and starts the bleeding process all over again. ;)

[Bowser]

You realize this is Chiefs Planet, right? Nothing ever dies here. Every time an argument even vaguely scabs over, someone comes along and picks off the scab and starts the bleeding process all over again. ;)

Nice 16,000th post, n00b.

Post more, btw.

[Bowser]

And enough with the bumping of the old threads. Yes, most of us were wrong about Cassel and this team in general. We get it.

[ChiefaRoo]

All men betray. All men lose heart. - drafturbators

I don't want to lose heart. I want to believe. - true fans

[Bane]

All men betray. All men lose heart. - drafturbators

I don't want to lose heart. I want to believe. - true fans

ROFL Nice.

[4th and Long]

Nice 16,000th post, n00b.

Post more, btw.
Shut your cake hole, bitch. :p

16,002, ... and counting. :D

[Braincase]

Let's use this opportunity to hash up old fights and spill some blood on the floor!

[TheGuardian]

If every single Cassel hater would come forward and drop the "he still hasn't proven enough to me" bullshit, it might happen.......

[|Zach|]

All men betray. All men lose heart. - drafturbators

I don't want to lose heart. I want to believe. - true fans

:LOL:

[Bane]

Let's use this opportunity to hash up old fights and spill some blood on the floor!

For tonight we dine in hell!:fire:

[Pants]

When those comments were made, they were justified. It wasn't about making a shot hoping it would pan out, dummy.

[Demonpenz]

yeah

[4th and Long]

Let's use this opportunity to hash up old fights and spill some blood on the floor!
This furthers my point. ROFL

Nice to see that you're still using the awesome Newman/Hailey avatar I made.

[KCUnited]

Westport is dangerous.

[DaFace]

And enough with the bumping of the old threads. Yes, most of us were wrong about Cassel and this team in general. We get it.
I've been tempted to turn off the damn search function again.


Sent from my Optimus S using Tapatalk.

[Bane]

If every single Cassel hater would come forward and drop the "he still hasn't proven enough to me" bullshit, it might happen.......

I hated on him all of last year but backed off this year and the guy has won me over big time.I don't care if he's not Manning or Brady or who the hell ever,but he can lead this team and he has proved to me that he is one of the guys now. Rake away.:thumb:

[stevieray]

...no way that's happening if we play the Jets, the draturbators last stand...the Sanchez/Cassel matchup is their last hope at being "right".

[4th and Long]

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!!!

[TheGuardian]

When those comments were made, they were justified. It wasn't about making a shot hoping it would pan out, dummy.

Those comments were still being made before the San Diego game when Brokie stepped in.

You know, the week you were all happy that Brokie was going to get to start?

So uh no, they weren't justified at that point.

[Ming the Merciless]

No Way we let it drop!

ON TO THE JETS

Down with the Drafturbators!!!

[Ming the Merciless]

Those comments were still being made before the San Diego game when Brokie stepped in.

You know, the week you were all happy that Brokie was going to get to start?

So uh no, they weren't justified at that point.

Exactly.....People that use THAT argument are just justifying their own stupid actions....Maybe they will learn something from all of this...but I doubt it...

[chiefsnorth]

...no way that's happening if we play the Jets, the draturbators last stand...the Sanchez/Cassel matchup is their last hope at being "right".

How much fun would it be for Cassel to completely destroy the Jets with Sancho looking terrible inthe processs?

[Ming the Merciless]

JETS @ KC

This is the moment where the TRUE FANS rise up and reclaim the honor of being a true fan.

NO LONGER will being a true fan be something to be ashamed of.


NEVER AGAIN

True Fan for LIFE motherfuckers!!

[MOhillbilly]

lets win a playoff game 1st pawn.

hot prospect that have advanced through school are one thing, a real match is another.

[Dayze]

I was a Cassel hater; but he's definitely turned a corner since the Seattle game.
I'm not 100% sold on him; I'm very close; maybe 85%.

if the kid gets a playoff win I'll be completely on board.

[MOhillbilly]

I was a Cassel hater; but he's definitely turned a corner since the Seattle game.
I'm not 100% sold on him; I'm very close; maybe 85%.

if the kid gets a playoff win I'll be completely on board.

This place will go full retard.

cant wait.

[Bwana]

http://www.boingboing.net/201002010901.jpg

[Pants]

Those comments were still being made before the San Diego game when Brokie stepped in.

You know, the week you were all happy that Brokie was going to get to start?

So uh no, they weren't justified at that point.

Because people were excited to see Croyle? I fail to see what that has to do with Cassel.

[Ming the Merciless]

lets win a playoff game 1st pawn.

hot prospect that have advanced through school are one thing, a real match is another.

If we actually WIN a playoff game ( remember we have not done that since what....1993?)......

If we actually WIN a playoff game...

I won't even begin to pretend to understand like more than anything joyous ever happend

[cdcox]

If every single Cassel hater would come forward and drop the "he still hasn't proven enough to me" bullshit, it might happen.......

I might if you and a bunch of the others hadn't been such douches about "see I told you so!" and "NOW you MUST admit you were wrong!" So I'm just going to sit here and hold on to my cards and wait for Cassel to cost us a crucial game. I'll be waiting. And then I'll keep my mouth shut about calling people out because I'm not 12 years old.

[MOhillbilly]

hahahaaa

[DaFace]

I might if you and a bunch of the others hadn't been such douches about "see I told you so!" and "NOW you MUST admit you were wrong!" So I'm just going to sit here and hold on to my cards and wait for Cassel to cost us a crucial game. I'll be waiting. And then I'll keep my mouth shut about calling people out because I'm not 12 years old.

I pretty much agree with this, and I wasn't a Cassel hater.

Sent from my Optimus S using Tapatalk.

[Baby Lee]

...no way that's happening if we play the Jets, the draturbators last stand...the Sanchez/Cassel matchup is their last hope at being "right".

Is this the ever mysterious 'some people on here?'

[BigMeatballDave]

How much fun would it be for Cassel to completely destroy the Jets with Sancho looking terrible inthe processs?I bashed MC plenty and I would LOVE to see this.

[tooge]

It wasn't the Cassel hating that bothered me, being that he did suck the first year here. It was more the Pioli, Haley, Cassel hating that bothered me. I remember having a discussion with one OTWP where he said Pioli wasn't getting it done and should have brought in Albert Haynesworth rather than wasting a pick on Cassel. That sure looks like it would have worked now doesn't it? Well, fact is, most of these big NFL moves take a year or two to pan out or prove to be mistakes. Being immediately critical of all the moves the franchise makes is very annoying. I think we can all agree that the bottom line is that the franchise is moving in the right direction and probalby faster than we had expected. For that we should all be pretty happy

[Otter]

Aw hell, I'll even delete my last Dane thread. I agree.

*edit*

[|Zach|]

It wasn't the Cassel hating that bothered me, being that he did suck the first year here. It was more the Pioli, Haley, Cassel hating that bothered me. I remember having a discussion with one OTWP where he said Pioli wasn't getting it done and should have brought in Albert Haynesworth rather than wasting a pick on Cassel. That sure looks like it would have worked now doesn't it? Well, fact is, most of these big NFL moves take a year or two to pan out or prove to be mistakes. Being immediately critical of all the moves the franchise makes is very annoying. I think we can all agree that the bottom line is that the franchise is moving in the right direction and probalby faster than we had expected. For that we should all be pretty happy

I agree. I was on the front lines of throwing stuff back at them that I thought was ridiculous. But now with the constant thread bumping and even characterizing their already extreme views as more extreme than they were it is time to just let it all go and enjoy this damn ride.

It is annoying watching Milkman concede that a lot of what he said wasn't right but still get torpedoed time and again. Let it go. ROFL

[tooge]

I agree. I was on the front lines of throwing stuff back at them that I thought was ridiculous. But now with the constant thread bumping and even characterizing their already extreme views as more extreme than they were it is time to just let it all go and enjoy this damn ride.

It is annoying watching Milkman concede that a lot of what he said wasn't right but still get torpedoed time and again. Let it go. ROFL

agreed. BTW, I hate when people say "I hate to tell you I told you so, but, I told you so".

[TheGuardian]

I might if you and a bunch of the others hadn't been such douches about "see I told you so!" and "NOW you MUST admit you were wrong!" So I'm just going to sit here and hold on to my cards and wait for Cassel to cost us a crucial game. I'll be waiting. And then I'll keep my mouth shut about calling people out because I'm not 12 years old.

Actually I wasn't on the "I told you so" list. I wasn't sold on Cassel to start the season either. He won me over but it didn't take some kind of fucking miracle because if a guy shows he has improved I don't have some crazy list of shit he must do in order to prove that.

When it was OBVIOUS Cassel had turned the corner, which was WELL before the San Diego game he missed, I was on board. Yet you still had people who wouldn't admit, or still won't admit, they were wrong. That's like the "well I'm not fully on board yet".

I'm sure even if we win a playoff game there will be some people that still won't be on board. I'm positive of it.

[|Zach|]

agreed. BTW, I hate when people say "I hate to tell you I told you so, but, I told you so".

Anyone who says that deserves to be kicked in the neck repeatedly.
:spank::evil:

[OnTheWarpath15]

It wasn't the Cassel hating that bothered me, being that he did suck the first year here. It was more the Pioli, Haley, Cassel hating that bothered me. I remember having a discussion with one OTWP where he said Pioli wasn't getting it done and should have brought in Albert Haynesworth rather than wasting a pick on Cassel. That sure looks like it would have worked now doesn't it? Well, fact is, most of these big NFL moves take a year or two to pan out or prove to be mistakes. Being immediately critical of all the moves the franchise makes is very annoying. I think we can all agree that the bottom line is that the franchise is moving in the right direction and probalby faster than we had expected. For that we should all be pretty happy

Would you mind posting that conversation?

I don't ever recall being behind the acquisition of Haynesworth, especially for a draft pick.

[Norman Einstein]

I doubt the Cassel haters will ever go away, and they will keep their little bit of hate alive so they can throw the ITYS card.

I was pretty much disillusioned with the fans going full out ballistic on Cassel. Second year with the Chiefs and 3rd offensive coordinator. I counted this year as the first year of the rebuild. Even this old fart could see Cassel making progress game by game.

I will not be a Chiefs hater if they lose a playoff game this year, what I see is this team building for a sustained run at the SB. I don't know if we can compete with NE with the number of SB wins, but I do know that the motion the team is making should put us in a great place for bringing back the Chiefs swagger.

I've seen more Chiefs shirts, jerseys, jackets and hats in the past couple of months than I have for 4 years.

Unless we have some kind of major catastrophe in the country the Chiefs should be a force to be reconed with for some time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Actually I wasn't on the "I told you so" list. I wasn't sold on Cassel to start the season either. He won me over but it didn't take some kind of fucking miracle because if a guy shows he has improved I don't have some crazy list of shit he must do in order to prove that.

When it was OBVIOUS Cassel had turned the corner, which was WELL before the San Diego game he missed, I was on board. Yet you still had people who wouldn't admit, or still won't admit, they were wrong. That's like the "well I'm not fully on board yet".

I'm sure even if we win a playoff game there will be some people that still won't be on board. I'm positive of it.

Here we go with the "some people" bit again.

Be a man and tell us who you think these folks are.

You haven't because you know damn good and well that you're full of shit.

You also know that different people have had different expecations that haven't changed since August.

If your criteria for being fully on board is that he "turned a corner," great. That's your right.

People like myself and cdcox have said since the day the deal went down that they expect him to be a franchise QB - and laid out what they think a franchise QB is - and he hasn't met those expectations yet. How are those people "wrong?"

There's not a soul on this board, sans possibly Mecca, that hasn't admitted that Cassel has been greatly improved this year.

There are people, however, that haven't seen him do what franchise QB's do - play like an elite QB in crucial times of crucial games. That expectation hasn't changed from the day he was acquired.

When he plays like an elite QB at crucial times/in crucial games - even in a loss - there won't be a single person here who refuses to get on board.

And then you'll find something else to sling shit over.

[Titty Meat]

Hey OTW I hope you've been doing some MMA training cause the Tardian is gonna whip some ass.

[tooge]

Would you mind posting that conversation?

I don't ever recall being behind the acquisition of Haynesworth, especially for a draft pick.

I'm not real good at finding that stuff, but basically you (and a few others) were pretty outspoken that in the first off season, all they did was aquire Cassel and Vrabel when they could have gone after Haynesworth (and a few others I dont remember). I'm not meaning to bag on you man, I just always remembered that conversation and it seemed like quite a few posters were very critical of the new (at that time) regime when I was simply saying for petes sake, give them a little bit of time. I'll look for it though

[Titty Meat]

I doubt the Cassel haters will ever go away, and they will keep their little bit of hate alive so they can throw the ITYS card.

I was pretty much disillusioned with the fans going full out ballistic on Cassel. Second year with the Chiefs and 3rd offensive coordinator. I counted this year as the first year of the rebuild. Even this old fart could see Cassel making progress game by game.

I will not be a Chiefs hater if they lose a playoff game this year, what I see is this team building for a sustained run at the SB. I don't know if we can compete with NE with the number of SB wins, but I do know that the motion the team is making should put us in a great place for bringing back the Chiefs swagger.

I've seen more Chiefs shirts, jerseys, jackets and hats in the past couple of months than I have for 4 years.

Unless we have some kind of major catastrophe in the country the Chiefs should be a force to be reconed with for some time.


I'd say the Cassel hating has already gone away for the most part and if he wins a playoff game we won't be hearing about it come the draft.

[Baby Lee]

The irony is, for all I was down on Cassel, he isn't the surprise of the season. I expected Charles and Thomas to shine, I hoped the O-Line would benefit from continuity and growth, I was very optimistic about McCluster and Moeaki, I prayed DAILY that Cassel would shape up almost exactly as he has [you're welcome]. I hoped he could live up to potential, but feared constantly he'd stay the guy who made some of the most mind-blowingly retarded plays [at the feet or over the heads of guys 2 feet in front of him, doinking hail marys off uprights, big fetal, checking down flea flickers into a lineman's arms, etc, etc.].

What I totally wrong about was how much the defense has made strides. They can still be game-planned, and when they are it is pitiful [Denver, SD]. But bread and butter week to week grinding it out, this defensive unit is streets ahead of where I could ever have imagined.

[|Zach|]

Here we go with the "some people" bit again.

Be a man and tell us who you think these folks are.

You haven't because you know damn good and well that you're full of shit.

You also know that different people have had different expecations that haven't changed since August.

If your criteria for being fully on board is that he "turned a corner," great. That's your right.

People like myself and cdcox have said since the day the deal went down that they expect him to be a franchise QB - and laid out what they think a franchise QB is - and he hasn't met those expectations yet. How are those people "wrong?"

There's not a soul on this board, sans possibly Mecca, that hasn't admitted that Cassel has been greatly improved this year.

There are people, however, that haven't seen him do what franchise QB's do - play like an elite QB in crucial times of crucial games. That expectation hasn't changed from the day he was acquired.

When he plays like an elite QB at crucial times/in crucial games - even in a loss - there won't be a single person here who refuses to get on board.

And then you'll find something else to sling shit over.
ROFLROFLROFLROFL

[keg in kc]

How much fun would it be for Cassel to completely destroy the Jets with Sancho looking terrible inthe processs?That's exactly what I want to happen, and my view of Cassel is essentially the same as OTWs.

Cassel has not made plays in meaningful games against quality opponents. That's a simple fact, and it's not bashing him in any way to say it, because the fact is that he hasn't played in a meaningful game against a quality opponent. He'll get that chance in two weeks.

And I can tell you that, just because I'm not necessarily "sold" on him yet, it sure as hell doesn't mean I'm sitting here waiting for him to stub his toe just so I can say point and laugh and say "I told you so!"

I hope we play the Jets, and I hope he has the game of his career, and I hope that Sanchez is a little gooey puddle of green and white when it's all over.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm not real good at finding that stuff, but basically you (and a few others) were pretty outspoken that in the first off season, all they did was aquire Cassel and Vrabel when they could have gone after Haynesworth (and a few others I dont remember). I'm not meaning to bag on you man, I just always remembered that conversation and it seemed like quite a few posters were very critical of the new (at that time) regime when I was simply saying for petes sake, give them a little bit of time. I'll look for it though

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Haynesworth can become unrestricted free agent...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3775006

Give him a blank check.

Negative.

For the kind of cash he's going to command, we can sign 2 solid players at DE, LB, etc...

(I'm guessing he's going to get in the neighborhood of $23-26M in guaranteed money)

it would be worth it, imagine him and Dorsey, how much that would help Dorsey? I'd do it if they don't tag him and don't have to drop a first rounder

So, let me get this straight.

You want to spend $25M guaranteed on one player, when the position that player plays is FAR from our biggest need at this point?

Can he play DE?

MLB?

OLB?

RT?

So you'd rather have two "solid" players than one superstar... maybe the best player at his position in football... Ok... you'd probably rather we had Ben Coates and Thomas Jones all these years rather than Tony Gonzalez. You need a superstar or two. A bunch of solid players don't win championships.



edit... even though we've never won a championship with Gonzalez either but you you get the damn point.

Haynesworth and Dorsey + Orakpo? I don't care how much money is locked into the trenches...that's where the money should be at.

It's a pipe dream but if we could lure Haynesworth to KC that would be awesome.

solid players aren't shit without a great player..i'm fucking sick of "solid players" who are never solid for us anyway

This is a good point.

But I'd still love to have Haynesworth.


:D

We're not hurting at DT. Haynesworth is a luxury. Period.

If we're going to spend ridiculous money in Free Agency, we better be getting some combination of players we actually NEED.

MLB
DE
OLB
RT

Signing Haynesworth does not fix this defense.

[patteeu]

When those comments were made, they were justified. It wasn't about making a shot hoping it would pan out, dummy.

By my measure we're only at 14 ounces of flesh. Additional flesh must be taken until people stop saying dumb things like this. For example, it was clearly NEVER true that Cassel had already reached his potential. It was a shot and it ended up being wrong.

I have no problem making peace with those who admit they are surprised by Cassel's performance as long as they don't do it by saying they were right all along.

[DeezNutz]

I would like to play the Jets, too. But from a "Cassel has arrived" standpoint, it would be even cooler to see him dismantle the Ravens, since they're the better team.

[|Zach|]

By my measure we're only at 14 ounces of flesh. Additional flesh must be taken until people stop saying dumb things like this. For example, it was clearly NEVER true that Cassel had already reached his potential. It was a shot and it ended up being wrong.

I have no problem making peace with those who admit they are surprised by Cassel's performance as long as they don't do it by saying they were right all along.

Yea, I honestly had no idea where Pants was coming from having problems with the way I worded that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Care to elaborate?

[Reaper16]

I'm not real good at finding that stuff, but basically you (and a few others) were pretty outspoken that in the first off season, all they did was aquire Cassel and Vrabel when they could have gone after Haynesworth (and a few others I dont remember). I'm not meaning to bag on you man, I just always remembered that conversation and it seemed like quite a few posters were very critical of the new (at that time) regime when I was simply saying for petes sake, give them a little bit of time. I'll look for it though
A very quick perusal of the search function indicates that OTWP was a vocal anti-Haynesworth guy:


Exactly.

This is really a pointless conversation, since Clark and Scott have come out and said they aren't going to be targeting Tier 1 FA's.

However, for sake of conversation:

If you're going to spend a ton of money on a FA, Peppers would be the way to go.

First, he fits a need.

Second, I don't see him being the type to get paid, then be content and half-ass it.

Haynesworth is far from a need, and absolutely seems like the type to get paid and then mail it in.

Hell, for that kind of money, Pioli could fix the entire defense, instead of giving all that money to one player.
Let's say the new GM says we're going to spend $25M in guaranteed money this offseason.

Would you rather have:

Haynesworth

or

Igor Olshansky and Jonathan Vilma?


(players used as examples of $ amount being discussed only)


You're an idiot if you say Haynesworth.

We're not hurting at DT. Haynesworth is a luxury. Period.

If we're going to spend ridiculous money in Free Agency, we better be getting some combination of players we actually NEED.

MLB
DE
OLB
RT

Signing Haynesworth does not fix this defense.

If the guy produced regularly, I'd be more open to it, though I still think DT is a luxury right now.

He has 8 sacks this year.

He had 9.5 TOTAL his first FIVE years in the league - COMBINED.

He plays when he wants to play, and what do you know, it's a contract year - so he plays balls out to get paid.

No thanks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's exactly what I want to happen, and my view of Cassel is essentially the same as OTWs.

Cassel has not made plays in meaningful games against quality opponents. That's a simple fact, and it's not bashing him in any way to say it, because the fact is that he hasn't played in a meaningful game against a quality opponent. He'll get that chance in two weeks.

And I can tell you that, just because I'm not necessarily "sold" on him yet, it sure as hell doesn't mean I'm sitting here waiting for him to stub his toe just so I can say point and laugh and say "I told you so!"

I hope we play the Jets, and I hope he has the game of his career, and I hope that Sanchez is a little gooey puddle of green and white when it's all over.

I am quoting this post to show my agreement with its contents.

[dirk digler]

It wasn't the Cassel hating that bothered me, being that he did suck the first year here. It was more the Pioli, Haley, Cassel hating that bothered me. I remember having a discussion with one OTWP where he said Pioli wasn't getting it done and should have brought in Albert Haynesworth rather than wasting a pick on Cassel. That sure looks like it would have worked now doesn't it? Well, fact is, most of these big NFL moves take a year or two to pan out or prove to be mistakes. Being immediately critical of all the moves the franchise makes is very annoying. I think we can all agree that the bottom line is that the franchise is moving in the right direction and probalby faster than we had expected. For that we should all be pretty happy

I second that. Some of these people didn't give Pioli and Haley any kind of honeymoon and just immediately started bashing them.

[|Zach|]

Care to elaborate?

How long does he get to carry your Franchise QB designation after a wins a big crucial game.

Manning choked a bunch times before he won a SB.

Your criteria is such that there are not a lot of QB's around at all who have that for very long. Great QB's go through times where they make it happen and then they have a bad game. Does your criteria take the franchise medal from their necks or is it a train you hop on and off of.

[keg in kc]

What I totally wrong about was how much the defense has made strides. They can still be game-planned, and when they are it is pitiful [Denver, SD]. But bread and butter week to week grinding it out, this defensive unit is streets ahead of where I could ever have imagined.I'm quite happy (well, mostly happy) that the defense is exactly what I expected them to be. I think there's a few teams that we'll line up well against in January, I just hope we don't run into a Manning or a Brady or a Roethlisberger, because a good, accurate QB with quality targets can an probably will pick us apart.

(Although there's another part of me that would love knocking Manning out of the tournament at Arrowhead, or seeing how this team lines up with New England...)

I think the Jets would be the perfect matchup for us. Baltimore would be an interesting game. Colts/Steelers/Patriots, I just don't know.

[DeezNutz]

Haley was terrible in '09. Most acknowledged that he sounded like a smart guy in pressers and was trying to do too much with OC and QB coaching duties.

And granting Pioli an "evaluation year" was absolutely asinine. '09 sucked. Luckily, '10 has been much better.

[dirk digler]

Haley was terrible in '09. Most acknowledged that he sounded like a smart guy in pressers and was trying to do too much with OC and QB coaching duties.

And granting Pioli an "evaluation year" was absolutely asinine. '09 sucked. Luckily, '10 has been much better.

I don't see why it was absolutely asinine to give them time to build their team and structure the way they wanted to. They completely rebuilt this entire organization from top to bottom. It's a process for the executive of the decade.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How long does he get to carry your Franchise QB designation after a wins a big crucial game.

Manning choked a bunch times before he won a SB.

Your criteria is such that there are not a lot of QB's around at all who have that for very long. Great QB's go through times where they make it happen and then they have a bad game. Does your criteria take the franchise medal from their necks or is it a train you hop on and off of.

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't say he had to win a SB.

I said:

There are people, however, that haven't seen him do what franchise QB's do - play like an elite QB in crucial times of crucial games.

If he shows that he's capable of of doing that, just once, I'm off the guys back.

As the saying goes, "big time players make big time plays in big time games."

Cassel's yet to show he can be that big time player, IMO.

Part of that, as Keg said, is because he really hasn't had the chance.

That changes in approximately 10 days.

[Pants]

By my measure we're only at 14 ounces of flesh. Additional flesh must be taken until people stop saying dumb things like this. For example, it was clearly NEVER true that Cassel had already reached his potential. It was a shot and it ended up being wrong.

I have no problem making peace with those who admit they are surprised by Cassel's performance as long as they don't do it by saying they were right all along.

No, it really wasn't 'a shot' to be right about anything. It was just stating the obvious at the time. Cassel played like garbage and has had a miraculous turn around since. If you or anyone else truly saw something in him and weren't just being a biased homer, than I applaud you and give you my respect.

[dirk digler]

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't say he had to win a SB.

I said:



If he shows that he's capable of of doing that, just once, I'm off the guys back.

As the saying goes, "big time players make big time plays in big time games."

Cassel's yet to show he can be that big time player, IMO.

Part of that, as Keg said, is because he really hasn't had the chance.

That changes in approximately 10 days.

Ok what about this scenario.

Cassel plays great but we still lose because the D can't make a stop at the end.

Is that good enough?

For me that is good enough and I wanted to kill Cassel at the beginning of this year and was ready to move on.

[|Zach|]

No, it really wasn't 'a shot' to be right about anything. It was just stating the obvious at the time. Cassel played like garbage and has had a miraculous turn around since. If you or anyone else truly saw something in him and weren't just being a biased homer, than I applaud you and give you my respect.

They were not just relaying what they were seeing. They were spending a lot of the time saying he couldn't do exactly what he is doing right now.

ie This team will never go to the playoffs with Cassel at QB.

[keg in kc]

Haley was terrible in '09. Most acknowledged that he sounded like a smart guy in pressers and was trying to do too much with OC and QB coaching duties.

And granting Pioli an "evaluation year" was absolutely asinine. '09 sucked. Luckily, '10 has been much better.I still look at '09 as the reboot year. Carve up the roster, evaluate the leftovers, do what you can with what may be the weakest overall draft class in history.

If they have this team fully built by kickoff '11 (and they may, although I'm not sure they still won't be a piece or three short), it will be an amazing thing.

Hell, where they are right now is amazing to me. They're right exactly where they should be, on the (absolutely meaningless...) calendar for rebuild I have in my head: 2009 no expectations, 2010 division contender, 2011 conference title contender.

If anything what this offseason has been for me is a reminder of just how important coaching really *is*. I've always been somebody who leans more toward the talent side of the equation, good players making coaches look good, but what I think we're seeing this year is just how much great coaching can do for a team. Although I think we're also seeing, retrospectively, how poor coaching can make decent players look bad.

I've never really been excited for the future of this team before, not since I came onboard in 1999. Never with Gunther in charge, never with Vermeil in charge (he always focused too much on vets IMO), never with Herm in charge. But I am now. This team is being built to be good for the long haul. And I'm thrilled to see it.

[DeezNutz]

I don't see why it was absolutely asinine to give them time to build their team and structure the way they wanted to. They completely rebuilt this entire organization from top to bottom. It's a process for the executive of the decade.

Real quick: I can't completely overlook fucking up the '09 draft. The Cassel acquisition, ironically, could go a long way toward salvaging it.

But let's move on. '09 sucked, but '10 brought a division championship, and Pioli and Haley deserve a lot of credit for this.

[Chiefnj2]

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't say he had to win a SB.

I said:



If he shows that he's capable of of doing that, just once, I'm off the guys back.

As the saying goes, "big time players make big time plays in big time games."

Cassel's yet to show he can be that big time player, IMO.

Part of that, as Keg said, is because he really hasn't had the chance.

That changes in approximately 10 days.

Last weekend wasn't a big game?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ok what about this scenario.

Cassel plays great but we still lose because the D can't make a stop at the end.

Is that good enough?

For me that is good enough and I wanted to kill Cassel at the beginning of this year and was ready to move on.

Define great.

[MOhillbilly]

had to pay out a 10 dollar bet to a true fan at work after the 10th win. Best ten bucks id spent all year.

[keg in kc]

Ok what about this scenario.

Cassel plays great but we still lose because the D can't make a stop at the end.

Is that good enough?

For me that is good enough and I wanted to kill Cassel at the beginning of this year and was ready to move on.Of course it's good enough. Cassel playing great is what you judge Cassel by, not whether or not the defense does it's job.

How many people have argued that Trent Green was the reason the Vermeil teams never made a real run...

[dirk digler]

Define great.

Like last week great

[stevieray]

I don't know how the NFL survives, considering there are so many teams that aren't "quality". guess those games and teams don't really count.

:rolleyes:

[DeezNutz]

I still look at '09 as the reboot year. Carve up the roster, evaluate the leftovers, do what you can with what may be the weakest overall draft class in history.

If they have this team fully built by kickoff '11 (and they may, although I'm not sure they still won't be a piece or three short), it will be an amazing thing.

Hell, where they are right now is amazing to me. They're right exactly where they should be, on the (absolutely meaningless...) calendar for rebuild I have in my head: 2009 no expectations, 2010 division contender, 2011 conference title contender.

If anything what this offseason has been for me is a reminder of just how important coaching really *is*. I've always been somebody who leans more toward the talent side of the equation, good players making coaches look good, but what I think we're seeing this year is just how much great coaching can do for a team. Although I think we're also seeing, retrospectively, how poor coaching can make decent players look bad.

I've never really been excited for the future of this team before, not since I came onboard in 1999. Never with Gunther in charge, never with Vermeil in charge (he always focused too much on vets IMO), never with Herm in charge. But I am now. This team is being built to be good for the long haul. And I'm thrilled to see it.

I guess I just expected more than "do what you can" from Pioli. #3 is just too important.

But I really like the rest of this post and agree with its overall sentiments.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Last weekend wasn't a big game?

If you want to compare a regular season game against a 6 win team to a playoff game, against an elite opponent, be my guest.

But I'm not that naive.

[dirk digler]

Of course it's good enough. Cassel playing great is what you judge Cassel by, not whether or not the defense does it's job.

How many people have argued that Trent Green was the reason the Vermeil teams never made a real run...

Because I think people might be inclined to blame the loss on Cassel regardless of how he performs.

[DeezNutz]

Because I think people might be inclined to blame the loss on Cassel regardless of how he performs.

There will always be unwarranted criticism.

Look at some of the dumbasses lobbying for Pinkel to be replaced in the Missouri thread, for example. :evil:

[|Zach|]

If you want to compare a regular season game against a 6 win team to a playoff game, against an elite opponent, be my guest.

But I'm not that naive.

I don't see how the Jets would be an elite opponent.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Like last week great

70% for 300+, 3/0?


Of course I'd be on board if he played like that against an elite opponent in the playoffs, even in a loss.

I think anyone still on the fence would.

[stevieray]

"____________ you've just won the SB, what are you gonna do now?"

"Give back my SB ring, because some of our wins weren't against quality teams in crucial games."

[tk13]

Of course it's good enough. Cassel playing great is what you judge Cassel by, not whether or not the defense does it's job.

How many people have argued that Trent Green was the reason the Vermeil teams never made a real run...

People have certainly knocked him because he didn't win a playoff game.

[Baby Lee]

People have certainly knocked him because he didn't win a playoff game.

Much of that is in response to the age old knock on Marty, and the concomitant CP standard that 'winning playoff games is the only measure of a man.'

Tony Gonzalez has never won a playoff game either, he and Trent are therefore, by definition, Martyocre.

It's not a wholesale assessment that 'he sucks' its a stance that, if you're gonna bag on Marty for it, it's gonna apply to all your favorite players who fit the bill as well.

[keg in kc]

I guess I just expected more than "do what you can" from Pioli. #3 is just too important. I don't think there was really anything he could have done with that pick. Trading out (IMO the best option of all) was never a realistic option. I don't really think any of the players behind him make a whole lot more sense than he did at the time - obviously I'm not a fan of drafting Sanchez. Maybe Raji, but other than that, who? Curry? No thanks. Andre Smith? DHB? Monroe? Crabtree? Maybin? Moreno? Orakpo you could maybe make an argument for, but if the argument against Jackson is that you don't take a 5-tech at 3, well, you don't take a rushbacker at 3 either, not traditionally.

It was a bad year to draft where we did, however you slice it.

And the book isn't written on Tyson Jackson yet. I know that's not and never will be a popular sentiment, but he's still a 2nd year player. I'm curious to see how he looks a year from now. Hopefully the injury against SD was a fluke.

[Chiefnj2]

If you want to compare a regular season game against a 6 win team to a playoff game, against an elite opponent, be my guest.

But I'm not that naive.

So, it wasn't a crucial game? Okay. Go on hating and moving the goal posts.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't see how the Jets would be an elite opponent.

Yeah, they're shitty.

Opponent's winning percentage: .530

Wins against 2 AFC playoff teams, and a 1 point loss to another.

They're 10-5 by complete accident.

[keg in kc]

People have certainly knocked him because he didn't win a playoff game.Cassel will hopefully get more than one opportunity.

Either way, anybody who holds Green responsible for that isn't somebody I'm going to bother paying attention to...

[DeezNutz]

I don't think there was really anything he could have done with that pick. Trading out (IMO the best option of all) was never a realistic option. I don't really think any of the players behind him make a whole lot more sense than he did at the time - obviously I'm not a fan of drafting Sanchez. Maybe Raji, but other than that, who? Curry? No thanks. Andre Smith? DHB? Monroe? Crabtree? Maybin? Moreno? Orakpo you could maybe make an argument for, but if the argument against Jackson is that you don't take a 5-tech at 3, well, you don't take a rushbacker at 3 either, not traditionally.

It was a bad year to draft where we did, however you slice it.

And the book isn't written on Tyson Jackson yet. I know that's not and never will be a popular sentiment, but he's still a 2nd year player. I'm curious to see how he looks a year from now. Hopefully the injury against SD was a fluke.

Worked out ok at #4 overall for KC. And I agree with the second statement in bold.

He's been a frustrating sack so far, but a lot of us thought DJ would never be more than an "average" player, too.

[Frazod]

Of course it's good enough. Cassel playing great is what you judge Cassel by, not whether or not the defense does it's job.

How many people have argued that Trent Green was the reason the Vermeil teams never made a real run...

Only the idiots. I'm fairly sure Green didn't play defense. Of course, neither did anyone else.

[greg63]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9638/2008111816201hatchetcop.jpg

[Baby Lee]

Cassel will hopefully get more than one opportunity.

Either way, anybody who holds Green responsible for that isn't somebody I'm going to bother paying attention to...

FTR - I'm not holding him [or Gonzo] responsible, just reminding all how they measure up to the asinine standard they've formulated.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So, it wasn't a crucial game? Okay. Go on hating and moving the goal posts.

You're the most intellectually dishonest person here.

If you can't see the difference between that game, against an inferior opponent and a playoff game against an elite opponent, I can't help you.

A franchise QB should play like that against a 6 win team.

Can he play like that against an 11 win team in the playoffs?

We'll see shortly.

[dirk digler]

There will always be unwarranted criticism.

Look at some of the dumbasses lobbying for Pinkel to be replaced in the Missouri thread, for example. :evil:

LMAO

70% for 300+, 3/0?


Of course I'd be on board if he played like that against an elite opponent in the playoffs, even in a loss.

I think anyone still on the fence would.

I agree

[Pants]

They were not just relaying what they were seeing. They were spending a lot of the time saying he couldn't do exactly what he is doing right now.

ie This team will never go to the playoffs with Cassel at QB.

You're focusing on the wrong side of the argument. I'm not going to argue semantics with you about who said what exactly, but the general consensus among those who weren't looking at Cassel through the red and gold glasses was that he was never going to be able to play like he has played against AZ and since. They were saying that because that's what it looked like at the time.

[|Zach|]

Yeah, they're shitty.

Opponent's winning percentage: .530

Wins against 2 AFC playoff teams, and a 1 point loss to another.

They're 10-5 by complete accident.

I am not saying they are shitty.

I am just saying for me personally when talk of elite teams comes up...the Jets are not a team I would mention. They do some very retarded things.

[keg in kc]

Worked out ok at #4 overall for KC. And I agree with the second statement in bold.Thinking back to the pre-draft that year, I don't believe many of us would have been very happy with that pick at that spot. There weren't a whole lot of Orakpo fans. He certainly didn't have the aura of DT coming out of bama.

And maybe we were wrong. Although maybe he's not the same guy here that he has been in Washington. Hard to really speculate on that.

[|Zach|]

You're focusing on the wrong side of the argument. I'm not going to argue semantics with you about who said what exactly, but the general consensus among those who weren't looking at Cassel through the red and gold glasses was that he was never going to be able to play like he has played against AZ and since. They were saying that because that's what it looked like at the time.

And they were wrong. No biggie. Thats all I was saying in my original post that for some reason you had a problem with.

They took a shot and they were wrong...even if it looked like they would be right. That doesn't change the fact that they were not. I am not trying to make the point that there was no reason to doubt Cassel...there were plenty.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I am not saying they are shitty.

I am just saying for me personally when talk of elite teams comes up...the Jets are not a team I would mention. They do some very retarded things.

Agree to disagree.

You don't get to (probably) 11 wins in this league playing the schedule they played by accident.

[keg in kc]

Only the idiots. I'm fairly sure Green didn't play defense. Of course, neither did anyone else.It could also depend on the circumstances. Cassel could play a great game and then toss a pick late while we were driving for the win, and we'd probably destroy the guy for melting down with the game on the line.

[TheGuardian]

You're the most intellectually dishonest person here.

If you can't see the difference between that game, against an inferior opponent and a playoff game against an elite opponent, I can't help you.

A franchise QB should play like that against a 6 win team.

Can he play like that against an 11 win team in the playoffs?

We'll see shortly.

So Brady nor Manning have ever lost against a shitty team?

Hell Brady lost to Cleveland this year. Brees lost to Cleveland AND Arizona.

Everyone knows no matter what you're always going to be a Cassel hater. No need to deny it.

People tried to say shit like his 470 yard 4 TD no interception day in Denver didn't count because it came against a prevent defense. Except that it didn't and the Broncos blitzed the shit out of Cassel in the second half to the tune of 25 blitzes for just THAT HALF. But nevermind the facts.......

If Cassel plays really well and we lose, someone will say that he should have done more.

If Cassel plays poorly and we win, someone will say he wasn't the reason we won.

If Cassel plays well and we win, someone will want to give the defense or the ground game all the credit.

If Cassel plays poor and we lose.....well that ones is easy.

The fact is, people like you, who had "FRANCHISE KILLING SHIT MACHINE" in your profile, will never get on board that Cassel is the guy.

This whole "franchise QB" bullshit is just that. Phillip Rivers has been a playoff and big game choke machine, but you suck that guy off like he's Peter North and you're some broke chic doing audition for porn. He's not even close to a "franchise QB", as defined by guys like Manning, Brady, and Brees. But it doesn't stop you from calling him one, yet holding Cassel to a different standard.

Cassel has yet to play in a playoff game. If we win, he's part of that, regardless of how he plays. Because we aren't even there without him starting. End of story.

[Marcellus]

You're the most intellectually dishonest person here.

If you can't see the difference between that game, against an inferior opponent and a playoff game against an elite opponent, I can't help you.

A franchise QB should play like that against a 6 win team.

Can he play like that against an 11 win team in the playoffs?

We'll see shortly.


http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg361/troyacupp/Flacco.jpg

[keg in kc]

I am not saying they are shitty.

I am just saying for me personally when talk of elite teams comes up...the Jets are not a team I would mention. They do some very retarded things.I don't look at the Jets as an elite team either. They don't scare me in the playoffs as much as the other 4 teams do. I'd pick them, specifically, as the squad I'd most want week one at home.

But they are a far cry better than Tennessee.

I think we're picking nits...

[kysirsoze]

Those comments were still being made before the San Diego game when Brokie stepped in.

You know, the week you were all happy that Brokie was going to get to start?

So uh no, they weren't justified at that point.

You mean the game where all the Cassel supporters were "hoping" Brodie would fail miserably so they would be right? That's how it works, correct?

[chiefsnorth]

This is all kind of silly, Cassel has played fairly well since the Colts game and great since halftime of the Denver game. And due to our situation with San Diego every game the second half of the season has been a big game.

You can't say that he hasn't won any crucial games because in the middle of the stretch run he's played very well and the team has won his last 5 starts.

What is the point in setting up the next hurdle when another will be set up after that? If Cassel shredded the Jets then lost the next game we'd have ITYS from both directions!

Sometimes I think it would be more fun to be a chiefs fan without reading this website and this is one example of that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So Brady nor Manning have ever lost against a shitty team?

I'm not even going to read the rest of that, because you started out with an ignorant comment, yet again.

Brady and Manning have proven themselves time and time again as elite, HOF QB's.

They've proven they can beat the best - you'd be an idiot not to give them the occasional pass.

[TheGuardian]

You mean the game where all the Cassel supporters were "hoping" Brodie would fail miserably so they would be right? That's how it works, correct?

I don't remember anyone hoping Brokie would fail. I know a lot of people that said the Cassel haters were stupid as shit for wanting 0-9 Brokie in there in the biggest game of the season.

He proved all of those people right, where Cassel has proven all the Cassel haters wrong. Big difference.

[Marcellus]

I'm not even going to read the rest of that, because you started out with an ignorant comment, yet again.

Brady and Manning have proven themselves time and time again as elite, HOF QB's.

They've proven they can beat the best - you'd be an idiot not to give them the occasional pass.

What are your thoughts on Flacco? Franchise?

[DeezNutz]

Thinking back to the pre-draft that year, I don't believe many of us would have been very happy with that pick at that spot. There weren't a whole lot of Orakpo fans. He certainly didn't have the aura of DT coming out of bama.

And maybe we were wrong. Although maybe he's not the same guy here that he has been in Washington. Hard to really speculate on that.

I wouldn't have been, in all honesty. I wanted Raji (once it was clear that Sanchez was off the table), but there were plenty of red flags surrounding this player, too.

No doubt that it was a tough year.

Compare that to last year, when Berry was a clear elite talent at #5. Not surprisingly, he was selected.

[kysirsoze]

So Brady nor Manning have ever lost against a shitty team?

Hell Brady lost to Cleveland this year. Brees lost to Cleveland AND Arizona.

Everyone knows no matter what you're always going to be a Cassel hater. No need to deny it.

People tried to say shit like his 470 yard 4 TD no interception day in Denver didn't count because it came against a prevent defense. Except that it didn't and the Broncos blitzed the shit out of Cassel in the second half to the tune of 25 blitzes for just THAT HALF. But nevermind the facts.......

If Cassel plays really well and we lose, someone will say that he should have done more.

If Cassel plays poorly and we win, someone will say he wasn't the reason we won.

If Cassel plays well and we win, someone will want to give the defense or the ground game all the credit.

If Cassel plays poor and we lose.....well that ones is easy.

The fact is, people like you, who had "FRANCHISE KILLING SHIT MACHINE" in your profile, will never get on board that Cassel is the guy.

This whole "franchise QB" bullshit is just that. Phillip Rivers has been a playoff and big game choke machine, but you suck that guy off like he's Peter North and you're some broke chic doing audition for porn. He's not even close to a "franchise QB", as defined by guys like Manning, Brady, and Brees. But it doesn't stop you from calling him one, yet holding Cassel to a different standard.

Cassel has yet to play in a playoff game. If we win, he's part of that, regardless of how he plays. Because we aren't even there without him starting. End of story.



As has been said many times, elite QB's have bad games, sure, but their good far outweigh their bad and they win when it counts.

I don't know what part is hard for you to understand. Some of us would rather Cassel prove he is the QB that can lead us to a SB. Some of us would rather put our faith in him and if we get burned, so be it. Both are legitimate viewpoints. I am excited to have Cassel as our QB. That doesn't mean I am positive he's the guy to break the Chiefs' SB drought. If we win in the playoffs, I'll be even MORE excited. It's not black and white.

[Pants]

This is all kind of silly, Cassel has played fairly well since the Colts game and great since halftime of the Denver game. And due to our situation with San Diego every game the second half of the season has been a big game.

You can't say that he hasn't won any crucial games because in the middle of the stretch run he's played very well and the team has won his last 5 starts.

What is the point in setting up the next hurdle when another will be set up after that? If Cassel shredded the Jets then lost the next game we'd have ITYS from both directions!

Sometimes I think it would be more fun to be a chiefs fan without reading this website and this is one example of that.

Debate is the sharpening stone for your brain. Unless, of course, you're on the opposite side of the argument and saying retarded things. :D

[TheGuardian]

I'm not even going to read the rest of that, because you started out with an ignorant comment, yet again.

Brady and Manning have proven themselves time and time again as elite, HOF QB's.

They've proven they can beat the best - you'd be an idiot not to give them the occasional pass.

You said franchise QB's beat 6 win teams. There were no caveats or exceptions.

Who is the idiot again? Maybe you should learn not to write in absolutes eh?

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg361/troyacupp/Flacco.jpg

And?

Flacco hasn't shown he can do it either.

He has the potential to be a franchise QB, but has yet to show it in the playoffs.

He has shown that ability against elite teams in the regular season, however.

[keg in kc]

I wouldn't have been, in all honesty. I wanted Raji (once it was clear that Sanchez was off the table), but there were plenty of red flags surrounding this player, too. Yeah, I was one of the people waving all those Raji red flags. That guy scared me to death. I thought we'd be drafting Chester McWilliams* if we took him.







*that's the raider love child of Chester McGlockton and Dan Williams.

[gblowfish]

There were a lot of Chiefs\Cassel haters early around here. I think all reasonable (except for Mecca) have come to realize they made a shot and it didn't quite pan out.

On the brink of big game against a rival and a home playoff game at Arrowhead for the first time in a long time lets bury the hatchet and the thread bumping and unite again as Chiefs fans. I think we got our pound of flesh.

<object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Sa_OQgWiPA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Sa_OQgWiPA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>

Lets go forth as a united fan base and rape the nostrils of all who oppose the Chiefs!

Um....that dude sold William Wallace out. He was a douchebag.
Just sayin, bad role model.

[kysirsoze]

I don't remember anyone hoping Brokie would fail. I know a lot of people that said the Cassel haters were stupid as shit for wanting 0-9 Brokie in there in the biggest game of the season.

He proved all of those people right, where Cassel has proven all the Cassel haters wrong. Big difference.

No difference at all except for the outcome. You stated a valid opinion. Your prediction doesn't mean you were rooting against Brodie, just like the anti-Cassel predictions. Practically no one on here is unhappy Matt's doing so well. Most "Cassel haters" have admitted they were wrong at least to a large degree. Why keep fighting?

[Fritz88]

Fights emerging in a thread meant to be a plea to unite us.
That's what makes this place awesome.
Thread bumping rocks and Daface should not turn it off. What's the point of a board then? :D
Edit: I am still NOT fully sold on Cassel. So there it goes :D

[Marcellus]

And?

Flacco hasn't shown he can do it either.

He has the potential to be a franchise QB, but has yet to show it in the playoffs.

He has shown that ability against elite teams in the regular season, however.

But many here and I believe you, I could be wrong, consider him franchise.

The Ravens WON a playoff game in which he had a 0.0 passer rating.

There is a bit of double standard going on.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You said franchise QB's beat 6 win teams. There were no caveats or exceptions.

Who is the idiot again? Maybe you should learn not to write in absolutes eh?

Showing off that JUCO-level reading level again, I see.

A franchise QB should play like that against a 6 win team.

I don't see anything about winning or losing in that comment.

[kysirsoze]

But many here and I believe you, I could be wrong, consider him franchise.

The Ravens WON a playoff game in which he had a 0.0 passer rating.

There is a bit of double standard going on.

I don't know about OTWP, but I think Flacco has that potential. The problem was a lot of people didn't feel the same way about Cassel. Looks like we were wrong.

[TheGuardian]

Showing off that JUCO-level reading level again, I see.



I don't see anything about winning or losing in that comment.

A franchise QB should play like what? 300 yards/70+ %/3 TD 0 picks against a 6 win team?????

Every time?

Stupid as fuck. But that's what I expect from you.

[kysirsoze]

A franchise QB should play like what? 300 yards/70+ %/3 TD 0 picks against a 6 win team?????

Every time?

Stupid as ****. But that's what I expect from you.

Now you are being intentionally obtuse.

[OnTheWarpath15]

But many here and I believe you, I could be wrong, consider him franchise.

The Ravens WON a playoff game in which he had a 0.0 passer rating.

There is a bit of double standard going on.

What double standard?

He has the potential. He's at minimum proven he can play like an elite QB against elite teams.

That's more than Cassel's proven - YET.

He'll get his first chance in 10 days or so.

If he's the QB that some of you are willing to claim he is already, he'll get many, many more chances in the playoffs.

He'll get plenty of chances next year in the regular season.

[Marcellus]

I don't know about OTWP, but I think Flacco has that potential. The problem was a lot of people didn't feel the same way about Cassel. Looks like we were wrong.

I think OTWP and I got into a debate about what franchise means and "potential franchise " etc....

By that standard there are about 15 potential franchise QB's in the NFL right now.

I think the difference is between good, franchise, and elite.

Nobody is saying Cassel is elite, some are saying he is potential franchise guy,and others are saying he is good.

Some don't even want to admit he has reached the level of good and is ascending.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Now you are being intentionally obtuse.

He's an idiot.

It's no coincidence that this place had the best week or so of football talk we've had this entire year while he was on "vacation."

[Frazod]

It could also depend on the circumstances. Cassel could play a great game and then toss a pick late while we were driving for the win, and we'd probably destroy the guy for melting down with the game on the line.

LMAO Asshole

[Pants]

He's an idiot.

It's no coincidence that this place had the best week or so of football talk we've had this entire year while he was on "vacation."

It's just his abrasive style that immediately puts people on defensive. I've done the same before, and it's pretty shitty, I guess. I'm also not a badass like him. I couldn't kill a man with my hands tied behind my back.

[TheGuardian]

He's an idiot.

It's no coincidence that this place had the best week or so of football talk we've had this entire year while he was on "vacation."

I bet money you are in your early 20's, at oldest.

[keg in kc]

LMAO Asshole:evil:

[TheGuardian]

What double standard?

He has the potential. He's at minimum proven he can play like an elite QB against elite teams.

That's more than Cassel's proven - YET.

He'll get his first chance in 10 days or so.

If he's the QB that some of you are willing to claim he is already, he'll get many, many more chances in the playoffs.

He'll get plenty of chances next year in the regular season.

In the playoffs Flacco has shown what exactly?????

[keg in kc]

It's just his abrasive style that immediately puts people on defensive. I've done the same before, and it's pretty shitty, I guess. I'm also not a badass like him. I couldn't kill a man with my hands tied behind my back.Yep.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think OTWP and I got into a debate about what franchise means and "potential franchise " etc....

By that standard there are about 15 potential franchise QB's in the NFL right now.

I think the difference is between good, franchise, and elite.

Nobody is saying Cassel is elite, some are saying he is potential franchise guy,and others are saying he is good.

Some don;t even want to admit he has reached the level of good and is ascending.

Quit going full-Guardian and tell us who these people are.

Cassel's shown me more this year than I thought he was capable of. I've been saying this for weeks.

He's shown to me he can potentially be a franchise QB.

I want to see more than beating up on the NFC West, Titans, etc before I claim he's anything more than that.

[keg in kc]

In the playoffs Flacco has shown what exactly?????You realize that's the very point he's making, right?

[LoneWolf]

Yeah, they're shitty.

Opponent's winning percentage: .530

Wins against 2 AFC playoff teams, and a 1 point loss to another.

They're 10-5 by complete accident.

Those two wins against AFC playoff teams are their only wins against teams with a winning record. Their opponents winning percentage is scewed because they have played the Patriots twice, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Green Bay. Of those five games they won two. I don't think they are a shitty team, but they are far from an elite team and they have really played poorly on defense in recent weeks.

I realize KC has played a softer schedule than the Jets, but in recent weeks KC has looked like a better team than NY.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I bet money you are in your early 20's, at oldest.

Wrong again. I'm shocked.

Feel free to ask around, plenty of people here have met me.

[TheGuardian]

Wrong again. I'm shocked.

Feel free to ask around, plenty of people here have met me.

I'm sure they were impressed with you too.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In the playoffs Flacco has shown what exactly?????

Wow.

Forget JUCO, I'm starting to doubt you made it out of high school.

Flacco hasn't shown he can do it either.

He has the potential to be a franchise QB, but has yet to show it in the playoffs.

He has shown that ability against elite teams in the regular season, however.

[kysirsoze]

You realize that's the very point he's making, right?

I doubt it. I'm not sure The Guardian has read one entire post in this thread.

[4th and Long]

So much for a "Unity" thread with OnTheWarpath58 and TheGuardian at each others throats. Oh, the irony. ROFL

[TheGuardian]

Wow.

Forget JUCO, I'm starting to doubt you made it out of high school.

Wait a minute, so Cassel showing it against elite teams in the regular season, like he did in New England don't count, but Flacco has?

[kysirsoze]

So much for a "Unity" thread with OnTheWarpath58 and TheGuardian. Oh, the irony. ROFL

FYP:p

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's just his abrasive style that immediately puts people on defensive. I've done the same before, and it's pretty shitty, I guess. I'm also not a badass like him. I couldn't kill a man with my hands tied behind my back.

He's the mirror image of Mecca - the guy he claims he's so much better than.

Refuses to admit when he's wrong, and adds in physical threats and homophobic slurs to boot.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So much for a "Unity" thread with OnTheWarpath58 and TheGuardian at each others throats. Oh, the irony. ROFL

I'm not at anyone's throat.

I'm just defending myself against erroneous claims.

As someone else said, I don't think he's read a post in this thread.

We were all having a solid discussion until he started in.

I guess I should put him on ignore so he can continue to misrepresent my opinion?

I've been on for an hour, and I've already been accused of wanting Haynesworth, which was false, and I have this clown not bothering to actually READ what is being written.

[4th and Long]

FYP:p
My posts do not need fixed, n00b. :mad:

[TheGuardian]

He's the mirror image of Mecca - the guy he claims he's so much better than.

Refuses to admit when he's wrong, and adds in physical threats and homophobic slurs to boot.

What have I been wrong about?

Who cares about homophobic slurs faggot?

[Marcellus]

Quit going full-Guardian and tell us who these people are.

Cassel's shown me more this year than I thought he was capable of. I've been saying this for weeks.

He's shown to me he can potentially be a franchise QB.

I want to see more than beating up on the NFC West, Titans, etc before I claim he's anything more than that.

I for sure could have missed it but this is the first post I have read that you say anything close to this.

Better than expected, yea. Playing much better, yea. Potential Franchise QB? Missed it.

Kudos and my apologies.

[4th and Long]

I'm not at anyone's throat.

I'm just defending myself against erroneous claims.

As someone else said, I don't think he's read a post in this thread.

We were all having a solid discussion until he started in.
Ever tried the ignore function? :)

[ChiefsCountry]

Wait a minute, so Cassel showing it against elite teams in the regular season, like he did in New England don't count, but Flacco has?

Which elite teams did he beat when he was New England's QB? Its the reason why the Pats stayed at home that year. They beat up on the AFC West and NFC West but chocked against all the good teams.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ever tried the ignore function? :)

Why, so he can continue to claim I said shit I didn't say?

Like I said, it's no coincidence this place was humming along while he was banned.

[tooge]

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Actually, you are right. I stand corrected. I was remembering you stating that Igor Olshansky, Chris Canty, Jason Brown among others should have been pursued. My bad on haynesworth, that was someone else in the same thread. By the way, the thread was titled "why people are disappointed, exhibit A". If you read post #76, I stated that if Pioli is allowed to bring in a few good O ling guys, upgrade the receiver position, get a proven 3-4 D coordinator, and bring in a better safety, we would be in good shape. Wow, that is exactly what happened. I guess to sum it up OTWP, I was bummed that so many, mainly you and Dane, in that thread, were so quick to judge Pioli and his actions when it hadn't even been a year that he and his staff had been here. Not to mention, that he hadn't even had a full off season to hire his own coordinators. Here we are a year later, and things are looking very promising for this franchise and fore the system Pioli has put into action here. I'm not one looking for anyone to admit they were wrong, but rather to agree that maybe this organization does know what it is doing. BTW, I dont know how to attatch links to threads, or I would have, sorry.

[keg in kc]

He's the mirror image of Mecca - the guy he claims he's so much better than.

Refuses to admit when he's wrong, and adds in physical threats and homophobic slurs to boot.That latent homosexuality thing is tough on a "manly man" like him. I wouldn't be surprised if he wears a cup when he's training, just so his partner can't feel the erection when he's working on his kimura from the guard position.

[greg63]

Ever tried the ignore function? :)

I hear it works wondrously. :D

[TheGuardian]

Which elite teams did he beat when he was New England's QB? Its the reason why the Pats stayed at home that year. They beat up on the AFC West and NFC West but chocked against all the good teams.

They split with the 11-5 Phins and beat the dog shit out of the Cards, who you know, went on to the Super Bowl.

And the Pats were 11-5 that year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I for sure could have missed it but this is the first post I have read that you say anything close to this.

Better than expected, yea. Playing much better, yea. Potential Franchise QB? Missed it.

Kudos and my apologies.

No apologies necessary.

[TheGuardian]

That latent homosexuality thing is tough on a "manly man" like him. I wouldn't be surprised if he wears a cup when he's training, just so his partner can't feel the erection when he's working on his kimura from the guard position.

You asked me not to. :::shrugs:::

[SAUTO]

Ok what about this scenario.

Cassel plays great but we still lose because the D can't make a stop at the end.

Is that good enough?

For me that is good enough and I wanted to kill Cassel at the beginning of this year and was ready to move on.

nope because cassel will have made a mistake earlier that it will be blamed on. like first half earlierROFL

[ChiefsCountry]

They split with the 11-5 Phins and beat the dog shit out of the Cards, who you know, went on to the Super Bowl.

And the Pats were 11-5 that year.

While losing to the Steelers, Colts, and Chargers.

[kysirsoze]

My posts do not need fixed, n00b. :mad:

:wayne:

[SAUTO]

I might if you and a bunch of the others hadn't been such douches about "see I told you so!" and "NOW you MUST admit you were wrong!" So I'm just going to sit here and hold on to my cards and wait for Cassel to cost us a crucial game. I'll be waiting. And then I'll keep my mouth shut about calling people out because I'm not 12 years old.

i feel this way also. i might have taken more shit than most (maybe anyone) on here and i havent bumped a single thread and havent bashed much at all.

because i too am not 12

[Fritz88]

They split with the 11-5 Phins and beat the dog shit out of the Cards, who you know, went on to the Super Bowl.

And the Pats were 11-5 that year.

Beat a Cards team that locked a playoff berth... In the snow...

[TheGuardian]

While losing to the Steelers, Colts, and Chargers.

Right. And Rivers just lost to the Bengals.

Brady lose to the Browns this year.

Brees lost to the Browns and Cards.

There isn't anything magical about beating "elite" teams in the regular season that makes one a franchise QB.

Good teams lose games they shouldn't and win some they shouldn't. Good QB's shit the bed some days and then play lights out others.

There isn't some magical formula for what a franchise QB is.

Some people say that Rivers is a franchise QB, but he's a big game choker.

Manning was a big game choker for a long time too.

Brady never put up the numbers until Moss arrived.

Was Dan Marino a franchise QB? He never won a ring. Was Dan Fouts?

People have lots of differences in terms of what a franchise QB is. I don't think it can be defined in a single season personally.

[SAUTO]

Define great.

lol, see?

[Fritz88]

What have I been wrong about?

Who cares about homophobic slurs pillowbiter?

You are fucking mental. Please insult Bob Dole. We want you on another time out.

[ChiefsCountry]

Right. And Rivers just lost to the Bengals.

Brady lose to the Browns this year.

Brees lost to the Browns and Cards.

There isn't anything magical about beating "elite" teams in the regular season that makes one a franchise QB.

So you lost this debate so you are just throwing shit to make it stick. Typical faggot Retardian.

[OnTheWarpath15]

While losing to the Steelers, Colts, and Chargers.

Those 3 games:

192 passing yards per game average.

0 TD's.

4 INT's.

[OnTheWarpath15]

lol, see?

You might want to catch up on the thread before you post again.

[TheGuardian]

lol, see?

Exactly......

[Otter]

:grouphug:

I can feel the love.

[greg63]

LMAO I love this thread!

[Reerun_KC]

so much pwnage going on here...

[TheGuardian]

So you lost this debate so you are just throwing shit to make it stick. Typical pillowbiter Retardian.

Go back and read pussy.

People keep saying what a franchise QB is or isn't, and say that Cassel hasn't become a franchise QB because he wasn't beaten elite teams when in fact he has. Unless they want to change what an elite team is. That's more moving the goalposts.

A franchise QB isn't something that can be determined in a single season. Maybe not even in two or three. We had some idiots on here that said during last season that they would take Rivers over Brees. Who the **** would say that? Anyone now?

Point is, Cassel haters will keep on saying he has something NEW to prove before they are convinced. Then when he has an off game or doesn't prove that, they will say "see?"

It's pretty simple. Try to follow along.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Exactly......

Exactly what?

People have different definitions for great.

There may be some folks here who thought Cassel played "great" in the Buffalo and Denver wins, just because we won.

[|Zach|]

so much pwnage going on here...

ROFL

[Bane]

so much pwnage going on here...

Link?

Oh never mind,found it!!!!!ROFL

[TheGuardian]

Exactly what?

People have different definitions for great.

There may be some folks here who thought Cassel played "great" in the Buffalo and Denver wins, just because we won.

You keep making my point.

If we win a playoff game and Cassel doesn't play great, you'll show up and say "Cassel hasn't beaten an elite team yet."

Right?

[RealSNR]

I'm not doing that stupid "WHUUUUUUUUUUP!! GUESS I WAS WRONG! MATT CASSEL AND THOSE TRUE BELIEVERS SURE SHOWED ME! HYUK HYUK! I WANT SOME BARBECUE SAUCE WITH MY CROW LOL"

I've gotten into football conversations with people here who actually do their homework and know what they're talking about. I'm the same way, only I've formulated different opinions based on what I've seen/looked up stat-wise. So when I'm wrong, it's because certain players I've written off as not being able to drastically improve to the point of being elite really turned the corner and did some things I never thought were possible. Why did I think they weren't possible? Because I never saw them do it before.

A great example of this is Drew Brees. He played pretty terribly his first few years in the league and then he hit a stride in his last season with San Diego. From that point on he became one of the NFL's top passers. I was wrong about him. I WAS right about Aaron Rodgers, Kurt Warner (with the Cardinals after his failure with the Giants) and I even got lucky and predicted Jake Delhomme would be a good starting QB in this league (which he was for some time-- and I made this prediction back when he was a 3rd stringer with the Saints)

Regarding Matt Cassel-- I had high expectations for the QB position. With a change in regime comes a change in attitude and a change in style, and that means finally building the team around an elite franchise QB-- something this team hasn't done since Dawson.

He's getting to that level, and that means keeping the expectations high. I'm not going to be happy with the improvement he made this season if he doesn't play well in the playoffs. I'll be happy to give him another chance next season though... I think he's clearly earned that. But Jesus fuck... he's NOT elite yet. He's proven jack shit.

Most of this post is ramblings. But some of it has some truth that I think the people who feel offended about the nasty things said about Cassel this season haven't comprehended. Their expectations are that we get a guy who can play well and be a well-liked leader. My expectations have and always were higher than that. Let's hope he matches them.

[TheGuardian]

I'm not doing that stupid "WHUUUUUUUUUUP!! GUESS I WAS WRONG! MATT CASSEL AND THOSE TRUE BELIEVERS SURE SHOWED ME! HYUK HYUK! I WANT SOME BARBECUE SAUCE WITH MY CROW LOL"

I've gotten into football conversations with people here who actually do their homework and know what they're talking about. I'm the same way, only I've formulated different opinions based on what I've seen/looked up stat-wise. So when I'm wrong, it's because certain players I've written off as not being able to drastically improve to the point of being elite really turned the corner and did some things I never thought were possible. Why did I think they weren't possible? Because I never saw them do it before.

A great example of this is Drew Brees. He played pretty terribly his first few years in the league and then he hit a stride in his last season with San Diego. From that point on he became one of the NFL's top passers. I was wrong about him. I WAS right about Aaron Rodgers, Kurt Warner (with the Cardinals after his failure with the Giants) and I even got lucky and predicted Jake Delhomme would be a good starting QB in this league (which he was for some time-- and I made this prediction back when he was a 3rd stringer with the Saints)

Regarding Matt Cassel-- I had high expectations for the QB position. With a change in regime comes a change in attitude and a change in style, and that means finally building the team around an elite franchise QB-- something this team hasn't done since Dawson.

He's getting to that level, and that means keeping the expectations high. I'm not going to be happy with the improvement he made this season if he doesn't play well in the playoffs. I'll be happy to give him another chance next season though... I think he's clearly earned that. But Jesus ****... he's NOT elite yet. He's proven jack shit.

Most of this post is ramblings. But some of it has some truth that I think the people who feel offended about the nasty things said about Cassel this season haven't comprehended. Their expectations are that we get a guy who can play well and be a well-liked leader. My expectations have and always were higher than that. Let's hope he matches them.

This is a good post.

I was a Cassel hater as well and wanted him gone. But i recognized when he "arrived". My point in all of this is that some people never recognized that he turned the corner. This does not mean he's elite. The only elite QB's in my opinion are Brees, Brady, and Manning. That's it. Rivers is not an elite QB unless you are talking about elite chokers.

Cassel has to win a SB to become "elite" and that think that is the tag some are using for "franchise" QB.

[cdcox]

Right. And Rivers just lost to the Bengals.

Brady lose to the Browns this year.

Brees lost to the Browns and Cards.

There isn't anything magical about beating "elite" teams in the regular season that makes one a franchise QB.

Good teams lose games they shouldn't and win some they shouldn't. Good QB's shit the bed some days and then play lights out others.

There isn't some magical formula for what a franchise QB is.

Some people say that Rivers is a franchise QB, but he's a big game choker.

Manning was a big game choker for a long time too.

Brady never put up the numbers until Moss arrived.

Was Dan Marino a franchise QB? He never won a ring. Was Dan Fouts?

People have lots of differences in terms of what a franchise QB is. I don't think it can be defined in a single season personally.

Don't make it so hard. Every single QB you named is a slam dunk franchise QB.

Rivers, Manning (pre-superbowl win), Marino and Fouts put up such huge numbers season after season that there is no question about their franchise level.

It doesn't look like Cassel will ever be a huge numbers guy. Maybe he will, but I've never heard anyone say "I think Cassel will be throwing for 4000 yards every year for the next 8 years. Woo hoo!" But you don't have to put up huge numbers to be a franchise QB, and that is why people want to see how he performs in big games.

Brady was a franchise QB before he started putting up huge number because he won and he was clutch. Aikman was a franchise QB even though he didn't put up huge numbers. They won big games, and they could bring a team back when it was on the brink.

[Reerun_KC]

Link?

Oh never mind,found it!!!!!ROFL

:thumb:

[keg in kc]

Roethlisberger is also elite. He carried that team to their last title, and basically carries them now.

[SAUTO]

You might want to catch up on the thread before you post again.

i have read every post.

he asked how would you feel if cassel plays great and we lose.

you said define great.


i said see.

why? because YOUR definition of great is so far above what any QB in the nfl has ever done its hilarious.

and i will disagree with you about you being ok with cassel's last weeks performance in a PO loss.


i can tell you exactly how it would go

"well cassel threw for 300 yards and 3 tds no ints and we lost."

then you come back with "well what did he do in the 2nd half"

"well not too much. but he put us in a position to win"

you: " any franchise qb would have won that game, cassel was too busy shitting himself in the 2nd half"

"but the defense gave up 350 yards in the second half"

you: "thats all because cassel couldnt stay on the field"


we have done this time and time again. remember when he threw a redzoneINT leading into the half and we led the game with less than five minutes in the game. the defense gave up a TD but it was cassel's fault due to the INT before halftime? do you remember that? huh?

[OnTheWarpath15]

My point in all of this is that some people never recognized that he turned the corner.

If that's your point, you're dumber than I thought.

Every one of his detractors at the beginning of the season with the exception of Mecca has come here within the last month and praised him for his play.

They made comments like, "he really improved his footwork, his reads, his decision making."

Those folks have all admitted that he has improved to a level most of thought wasn't possible.

Yet there's people like you that continue to perpetuate the idea that "we" haven't admitted he's turned a corner.

Pathetic.

[keg in kc]

Every one of his detractors at the beginning of the season with the exception of Mecca has come here within the last month and praised him for his play.

They made comments like, "he really improved his footwork, his reads, his decision making."

Those folks have all admitted that he has improved to a level most of thought wasn't possible.

Yet there's people like you that continue to perpetuate the idea that "we" haven't admitted he's turned a cornerTo quote you...Cassel's shown me more this year than I thought he was capable of. I've been saying this for weeks.

He's shown to me he can potentially be a franchise QB.

I want to see more than beating up on the NFC West, Titans, etc before I claim he's anything more than that.In this very thread.

That sure reads like turning a corner.

[MOhillbilly]

Roethlisberger is also elite. He carried that team to their last title, and basically carries them now.


That D is pretty fire at 100%.

[BigMeatballDave]

A lot of us were wrong about MC. Even national sports media.

[SAUTO]

If that's your point, you're dumber than I thought.

Every one of his detractors at the beginning of the season with the exception of Mecca has come here within the last month and praised him for his play.

They made comments like, "he really improved his footwork, his reads, his decision making."

Those folks have all admitted that he has improved to a level most of thought wasn't possible.

Yet there's people like you that continue to perpetuate the idea that "we" haven't admitted he's turned a corner.

Pathetic.

there is always a disclaimer: I.E. he hasnt beaten any great teams. always.

you say he has played better but i will wait until he plays an elite team to crown him....

[SAUTO]

To quote you...In this very thread.

That sure reads like turning a corner.

yep with a disclaimer

[OnTheWarpath15]

i have read every post.

he asked how would you feel if cassel plays great and we lose.

you said define great.


i said see.

why? because YOUR definition of great is so far above what any QB in the nfl has ever done its hilarious.

and i will disagree with you about you being ok with cassel's last weeks performance in a PO loss.


i can tell you exactly how it would go

"well cassel threw for 300 yards and 3 tds no ints and we lost."

then you come back with "well what did he do in the 2nd half"

"well not too much. but he put us in a position to win"

you: " any franchise qb would have won that game, cassel was too busy shitting himself in the 2nd half"

"but the defense gave up 350 yards in the second half"

you: "thats all because cassel couldnt stay on the field"


we have done this time and time again. remember when he threw a redzoneINT leading into the half and we led the game with less than five minutes in the game. the defense gave up a TD but it was cassel's fault due to the INT before halftime? do you remember that? huh?


Here's Jason, doing what he does best.

Telling people that he knows more about what they say and believe than the person making the claim.

But please, continue to (falsely) claim that I'll feel differently than I've posted I would if Cassel completed 70% for 300+ 3TD's and 0INT's.

Because you'd know more than I would about how I feel.

It's people like you and Guardian that makes the ignore feature pointless.

You'd just go on saying shit like this unchecked.

[keg in kc]

That D is pretty fire at 100%.They are, but they won in 2008 because of Roethlisberger. He was more of a Dilfer in the title run in 2005, back when they lead the league in rushing, but his role with them the last few years is much closer to what Brady does in New England than what Sanchez does in New York. He is that offense now.

[OnTheWarpath15]

there is always a disclaimer: I.E. he hasnt beaten any great teams. always.

you say he has played better but i will wait until he plays an elite team to crown him....

That "disclaimer" hasn't changed since the day we acquired him.

He has played better. He's much improved in areas I didn't think he could improve in.

If you want to "crown him" as an elite QB based on what you've seen, that's your right.

It's my right to stick to the criteria I established when we traded for him.

People like you and Guardian want to claim that the goalposts are being moved, and that's not the case.

People like me, Keg, and SNR as examples, haven't changed our expectations a bit.

[BigMeatballDave]

It doesn't look like Cassel will ever be a huge numbers guy. Maybe he will, but I've never heard anyone say "I think Cassel will be throwing for 4000 yards every year for the next 8 years. Woo hoo!" But you don't have to put up huge numbers to be a franchise QB, and that is why people want to see how he performs in big games.

Brady was a franchise QB before he started putting up huge number because he won and he was clutch. Aikman was a franchise QB even though he didn't put up huge numbers. They won big games, and they could bring a team back when it was on the brink.With JC, he doesnt need to be a big numbers guy. Just make plays when needed. He's been doing this lately.

[SAUTO]

Here's Jason, doing what he does best.

Telling people that he knows more about what they say and believe than the person making the claim.

But please, continue to (falsely) claim that I'll feel differently than I've posted I would if Cassel completed 70% for 300+ 3TD's and 0INT's.

Because you'd know more than I would about how I feel.

It's people like you and Guardian that makes the ignore feature pointless.

You'd just go on saying shit like this unchecked.


hey man we have gone through this before. thats what YOU did then.

whatever.

[SAUTO]

That "disclaimer" hasn't changed since the day we acquired him.

He has played better. He's much improved in areas I didn't think he could improve in.

If you want to "crown him" as an elite QB based on what you've seen, that's your right.

It's my right to stick to the criteria I established when we traded for him.

People like you and Guardian want to claim that the goalposts are being moved, and that's not the case.

People like me, Keg, and SNR as examples, haven't changed our expectations a bit.

ok:rolleyes: like i said your opinion of a great QB is higher than anyone's ive ever seen. no qb in history could live up to your lofty goals week in and week out.

[keg in kc]

You don't have to be a big numbers guy or the centerpiece of your offense to be a franchize guy. You just have to be able to make plays that count in the biggest games when everything is on the line.

I know people will argue this, but Aikman's the poster child for that. It doesn't mean the guy has to be Dan Marino setting league records.

And I don't think anyone is saying that Cassel *can't* be that franchise player now. People are only saying that he hasn't had the opportunity to prove himself, one way or the other.

People are taking that as a negative statement when they shouldn't.

[SAUTO]

It's people like you and Guardian that makes the ignore feature pointless.

You'd just go on saying shit like this unchecked.

ok:rolleyes: if i know you have me on ignore i make SURE you know i'm posting about you if i do.

[Marcellus]

You don't have to be a big numbers guy or the centerpiece of your offense to be a franchize guy. You just have to be able to make plays that count in the biggest games when everything is on the line.

I know people will argue this, but Aikman's the poster child for that. It doesn't mean the guy has to be Dan Marino setting league records.

Rothlisraper is a perfect example.

[SAUTO]

You don't have to be a big numbers guy or the centerpiece of your offense to be a franchize guy. You just have to be able to make plays that count in the biggest games when everything is on the line.

I know people will argue this, but Aikman's the poster child for that. It doesn't mean the guy has to be Dan Marino setting league records.

i agree.

and cassel has made those plays in the biggest games we have played this year.

[kysirsoze]

I think a few certain "Cassel supporters" spent all season fapping to the idea of shoving his eventual success in the "haters" faces and now that the "haters" are just as happy as they are, they are butthurt. Get over it already.

[SAUTO]

I think a few certain "Cassel supporters" spent all season fapping to the idea of shoving his eventual success in the "haters" faces and now that the "haters" are just as happy as they are, they are butthurt. Get over it already.

not me buddy if thats what you are referring to.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ok:rolleyes: like i said your opinion of a great QB is higher than anyone's ive ever seen. no qb in history could live up to your lofty goals week in and week out.

What?

Dude, seriously, you're embarrassing yourself.

No QB in history can live up to my goals, yet I constantly point to Brady, Manning, Brees and Roethlisberger as the standard - and to a lesser extent, guys like Rivers and Rodgers - as guys who carry their teams, and make clutch plays at clutch times in huge games to help their teams win.

Drop the personal vendetta and quit making shit up.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You don't have to be a big numbers guy or the centerpiece of your offense to be a franchize guy. You just have to be able to make plays that count in the biggest games when everything is on the line.

I know people will argue this, but Aikman's the poster child for that. It doesn't mean the guy has to be Dan Marino setting league records.

And I don't think anyone is saying that Cassel *can't* be that franchise player now. People are only saying that he hasn't had the opportunity to prove himself, one way or the other.

People are taking that as a negative statement when they shouldn't.

Exactly.

It's easier to ignore comments like yours and just continue perpetuating the lies.

[keg in kc]

i agree.

and cassel has made those plays in the biggest games we have played this year.The game the week after next will be the first real "big game" we've had in Kansas City since January of 2004.

That's not to say they don't deserve credit for beating the teams on their schedule. They don't get to pick and choose their opponents. And they've done it more and more convincingly as the season goes on.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about the playoff game, particularly if we play the Jets. I think we could beat them much the same way that we beat Tennessee. Maybe not by as wide a margin, but I think it could be the same kind of game. Their front 7/pass rush doesn't scare me. Their QB doesn't scare me. I think we can handle their running game. I don't think they can handle ours.

What does scare me is that we have a team that basically has no experience at all on the big stage.

But they have to start somewhere...

[OnTheWarpath15]

ok:rolleyes: if i know you have me on ignore i make SURE you know i'm posting about you if i do.

English: The preferred language of ChiefsPlanet.

If it's important, try again, because that made no sense.

[kysirsoze]

not me buddy if thats what you are referring to.

It's not.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The game the week after next will be the first real "big game" we've had in Kansas City since January of 2004.

That's not to say they don't deserve credit for beating the teams on their schedule. They don't get to pick and choose their opponents. And they've done it more and more convincingly as the season goes on.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about the playoff game, particularly if we play the Jets. I think we could beat them much the same way that we beat Tennessee. Maybe not by as wide a margin, but I think it could be the same kind of game. Their front 7/pass rush doesn't scare me. Their QB doesn't scare me. I think we can handle their running game. I don't think they can handle ours.

What does scare me is that we have a team that basically has no experience at all on the big stage.

But they have to start somewhere...

Another great post, and I couldn't agree more on the bolded part.

[SAUTO]

What?

Dude, seriously, you're embarrassing yourself.

No QB in history can live up to my goals, yet I constantly point to Brady, Manning, Brees and Roethlisberger as the standard - and to a lesser extent, guys like Rivers and Rodgers - as guys who carry their teams, and make clutch plays at clutch times in huge games to help their teams win.

Drop the personal vendetta and quit making shit up.

not embarrassed at all.

those guys dont play for the chiefs and it appears that you hold our players to a higher standard.

proof? your posting history.

now i have better things to do that sit here and laugh at you. i'm out have a nice evening

[sedated]

A lot of us were wrong about MC. Even national sports media.

I don't think people were "wrong". Cassel played like ass his first 1 1/2 seasons here.

He improved. Props to the people who stuck by him by saying that he would.


Its kind of funny because it happened the same way with Trent Green, less than 10 years ago. He was trINT after his first season, and people were begging to get rid of him, and bashing the trade that brought him here. Eventually, he turned into one of the best QBs in franchise history. Cut to a few years later, Cassel has a rough first year, but anyone who even brought up the possibility of a comparison to Trent and better times ahead, was berated mercilessly.

[SAUTO]

English: The preferred language of ChiefsPlanet.

If it's important, try again, because that made no sense.

well i dont know how you couldnt get this but i'll go kindergarder for you


if
i
know
you
have
me
on
ignore
i
make
SURE
you
know
i'm
posting
about
you
if
i
do.

it's happened before. i made such an issue and said that i knew you had me on ignore that someone PM'd you to let you know i was responding to one of your idiotic posts.

[SAUTO]

I don't think people were "wrong". Cassel played like ass his first 1 1/2 seasons here.

He improved. Props to the people who stuck by him by saying that he would.


Its kind of funny because it happened the same way with Trent Green, less than 10 years ago. He was trINT after his first season, and people were begging to get rid of him, and bashing the trade that brought him here. Eventually, he turned into one of the best QBs in franchise history. Cut to a few years later, Cassel has a rough first year, but anyone who even brought up the possibility of a comparison to Trent and better times ahead, was berated mercilessly.

yep.

[OnTheWarpath15]

not embarrassed at all.

those guys dont play for the chiefs and it appears that you hold our players to a higher standard.

proof? your posting history.

now i have better things to do that sit here and laugh at you. i'm out have a nice evening

That's some interesting proof. None.

Would someone with a Sauto Decoder Ring tell me what the fuck he's talking about?

When have I ever expected more out of Cassel than what Roethlisberger has done, for example?

Nothing like making a ridiculous comment and then running off.

[SAUTO]

That's some interesting proof. None.

Would someone with a Sauto Decoder Ring tell me what the fuck he's talking about?

When have I ever expected more out of Cassel than what Roethlisberger has done, for example?

Nothing like making a ridiculous comment and then running off.

man i said i was done and i will be, but look at your posting history. you love other teams players and over look their warts while bitching about any and everything a player for the chiefs does, sometimes it's the same warts.....

hypocrisy. that a strong suit for you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

well i dont know how you couldnt get this but i'll go kindergarder for you


if
i
know
you
have
me
on
ignore
I'll
make
SURE
you
know
that
i'm
posting
about
you
.

it's happened before. i made such an issue and said that i knew you had me on ignore that someone PM'd you to let you know i was responding to one of your idiotic posts.

The only thing "kindergarten" about that post is the way you form a sentence.

Poorly.

[OnTheWarpath15]

man i said i was done and i will be, but look at your posting history. you love other teams players and over look their warts while bitching about any and everything a player for the chiefs does, sometimes it's the same warts.....

hypocrisy. that a strong suit for you.

What warts do Brady, Ben and Manning have?

They're elite QB's. 2 definite HOF'ers and a likely 3rd.



You should quit. Seriously.

It's obvious you didn't come here to actually argue posts, just posters.

[SAUTO]

What warts do Brady, Ben and Manning have?

They're elite QB's. 2 definite HOF'ers and a likely 3rd.



You should quit. Seriously.

It's obvious you didn't come here to actually argue posts, just posters.


players, where did i say brady ben manning? no where. players.

grass is always greener bud. it's cool. again i'm done.

[Pants]

Is this Zach's longest thread since his "I'm leaving forever" one?

[OnTheWarpath15]

players, where did i say brady ben manning? no where. players.

grass is always greener bud. it's cool. again i'm done.

DEAR GOD.

Your like a child.

You said "no qb in history could live up to your lofty goals week in and week out."

I proved that wrong. I mentioned those 3 QB's as examples

You make no attempt to be specific about anything, you just rant about shit and claim it's true.

Face it, your not arguing the topic, or the posts I'm making. You're arguing because you have an issue with me.

And now, for the 2nd time in this thread, you're going to make a vague claim, and then claim to "leave" without any specific examples or evidence to back said claim.

[Bearcat]

I was a Cassel hater; but he's definitely turned a corner since the Seattle game.
I'm not 100% sold on him; I'm very close; maybe 85%.

if the kid gets a playoff win I'll be completely on board.


This place will go full retard.

cant wait.

Playoff win -- full retard with the petty "I told you so" crap and "What about now that he's won a playoff game???"

Playoff loss -- full retard with with petty "I told you so" crap and "Where's your elite QB now???"

I've mentioned in the past that it seems like the one goal that gets people going on this board is making the playoffs, like that's all anyone worries about, and it's funny how a lot of these threads are being bumped now that they've clinched, and not after something significant happens, like winning a playoff game.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Is this Zach's longest thread since his "I'm leaving forever" one?

Pretty much a given when Sauto and Guardian get involved.

I apologize for even responding to them - I'm just not a fan of allowing people to make false claims about things I've said or things others have said.

[Pants]

Pretty much a given when Sauto and Guardian get involved.

I apologize for even responding to them - I'm just not a fan of allowing people to make false claims about things I've said or things others have said.

You don't need to apologize. But anybody who's rational and at least somewhat intelligent can see through it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[SAUTO]

lol, see?

Pretty much a given when Sauto and Guardian get involved.

I apologize for even responding to them - I'm just not a fan of allowing people to make false claims about things I've said or things others have said.

you responded to the above post.

where did i make a false claim?

didnt. you just didnt like that i used you as an example

[OnTheWarpath15]

You don't need to apologize. But anybody who's rational and at least somewhat intelligent can see through it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

.

[SAUTO]

one more thing OTWP: do you think it was coincidence that so many made fun of you in the thread last week when you were bitching about the field conditions? nope. people get tired of your know it all, my opinion is the only one that matters attitude.

and if i was only arguing the poster i would have chimed in on that, i was there, just didnt see any reason to pile on....

[SAUTO]

You don't need to apologize. But anybody who's rational and at least somewhat intelligent can see through it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

ROFL ok well there are quite a few that agree with me here, even some that are his friends....

[Pants]

one more thing OTWP: do you think it was coincidence that so many made fun of you in the thread last week when you were bitching about the field conditions? nope. people get tired of your know it all, my opinion is the only one that matters attitude.

and if i was only arguing the poster i would have chimed in on that, i was there, just didnt see any reason to pile on....

Huh?

[Chiefnj2]

If Cassel has an off day OTWP, DeezNuts, Hamas and ChiefsCountry will all be on the board telling everyone they told you so. If Cassel has a good day, the goal posts will be moved again. If he plays exceptionally well, it'll be "well, he has to do it on a consistent basis."

[OnTheWarpath15]

one more thing OTWP: do you think it was coincidence that so many made fun of you in the thread last week when you were bitching about the field conditions? nope. people get tired of your know it all, my opinion is the only one that matters attitude.

and if i was only arguing the poster i would have chimed in on that, i was there, just didnt see any reason to pile on....

Here's every comment I made in that thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=467140

I don't see any "bitching." I don't see anything that could be construed as a "know it all attitude."

I do see an opinion being expressed.

I also see several people sharing a similar opinion.


Harvin

td

7-0


everyone is slipping and sliding

Dudes are bouncing and sliding all over that turf. It really does look like concrete. Or an ice rink.

With it being so likely for there to be concussions, I don't see how the NFL lets the game be played. Shouldn't safety be a little more important?

As much as we can make fun of that punter... it does look like they're playing on concrete.


And now, I see someone (you) who just won't quit being petty and childish.

Do this entire board a favor.

Forget I even exist. Quit responding to my posts.

Because you've proven, once again, that you can't do so without your dislike for me getting in the way of the facts.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL ok well there are quite a few that agree with me here, even some that are his friends....

Feel free to name names.

Stand by your comment.

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

There were a lot of Chiefs\Cassel haters early around here. I think all reasonable (except for Mecca) have come to realize they made a shot and it didn't quite pan out.

On the brink of big game against a rival and a home playoff game at Arrowhead for the first time in a long time lets bury the hatchet and the thread bumping and unite again as Chiefs fans. I think we got our pound of flesh.

<object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Sa_OQgWiPA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Sa_OQgWiPA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>

Lets go forth as a united fan base and rape the nostrils of all who oppose the Chiefs!


Then the drafturbators betray the true fans and they get hung drawn and quartered by the English

[SAUTO]

Feel free to name names.

Stand by your comment.

I'm not the guy to throw someone under the bus, or lie about something.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm not the guy to throw someone under the bus, or lie about something.
Posted via Mobile Device

You're just the guy that will make a comment like that without having any intention of backing it up.

Pretty weak.

[SAUTO]

Lol did I say people were making fun of you because off what you did in that thread? Nope. People were making fun of you because of the way you have acted in the past.Here's every comment I made in that thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=467140

I don't see any "bitching." I don't see anything that could be construed as a "know it all attitude."

I do see an opinion being expressed.

I also see several people sharing a similar opinion.











And now, I see someone (you) who just won't quit being petty and childish.

Do this entire board a favor.

Forget I even exist. Quit responding to my posts.

Because you've proven, once again, that you can't do so without your dislike for me getting in the way of the facts.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigMeatballDave]

If Cassel has an off day OTWP, DeezNuts, Hamas and ChiefsCountry will all be on the board telling everyone they told you so. If Cassel has a good day, the goal posts will be moved again. If he plays exceptionally well, it'll be "well, he has to do it on a consistent basis."Well he DOES need to play well on a consistant basis. One bad game, though isnt gonna mean his is what we thought he was. You cant fake a performance like the one he had Sunday. The 2nd TD pass to JC and the bullet he threw to Bowe are passes you see from Manning, Brady, Brees, et al.

[SAUTO]

Lol ok I'll roll my eyes at that. Again I will not call people out. I have had several comment from today but plenty from before too. Some of your best friends here bud. they know who they are they can tell you if they want.....You're just the guy that will make a comment like that without having any intention of backing it up.

Pretty weak.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Agreed. And it may not mean much to you bcd but I gave a lot more respect for you and your opinion due to the way you have handled your opinion of cassel.Well he DOES need to play well on a consistant basis. One bad game, though isnt gonna mean his is what we thought he was. You cant fake a performance like the one he had Sunday. The 2nd TD pass to JC and the bullet he threw to Bowe are passes you see from Manning, Brady, Brees, et al.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pants]

Lol ok I'll roll my eyes at that. Again I will not call people out. I have had several comment from today but plenty from before too. Some of your best friends here bud. they know who they are they can tell you if they want.....
Posted via Mobile Device

That reeks of 'personal agenda' from you, dude. I always wondered why people gave you shit but now I know why. If you're not going to throw people under the bus, don't be making those claims.

It's a no win for you, either way you look like a ****ing bitch.

[OnTheWarpath15]

one more thing OTWP: do you think it was coincidence that so many made fun of you in the thread last week when you were bitching about the field conditions? nope. people get tired of your know it all, my opinion is the only one that matters attitude.

and if i was only arguing the poster i would have chimed in on that, i was there, just didnt see any reason to pile on....

Lol did I say people were making fun of you because off what you did in that thread? Nope. People were making fun of you because of the way you have acted in the past.
Posted via Mobile Device

Interesting, I don't see you saying anything about "the past" in that first quote.

I see you implying that people were making fun of me for expressing an opinion about the field conditions - an opinion that was shared by a few others.

I guess this means you have no plans to quit responding to my posts.

Might as well keep digging, then.

[BigMeatballDave]

Agreed. And it may not mean much to you bcd but I gave a lot more respect for you and your opinion due to the way you have handled your opinion of cassel.
Posted via Mobile DeviceThanks. I threw a lot of shit out there regarding MC. Sometimes its good to be wrong.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That reeks of 'personal agenda' from you, dude. I always wondered why people gave you shit but now I know why. If you're not going to throw people under the bus, don't be making those claims.

It's a no win for you, either way you look like a ****ing bitch.

He backed himself into this corner.

I just hope that now everyone sees him for what he is.

Someone with a personal vendetta who isn't man enough to stand behind his comments.

[cdcox]

With JC, he doesnt need to be a big numbers guy. Just make plays when needed. He's been doing this lately.

Exactly, I agree with this. He doesn't have to be a big numbers guy to be a franchise QB. But he has to make clutch plays on a consistent basis. He has been doing that lately and against weak opponents. For me to say I'm completely satisfied with Cassel as my QB going forward, he is going to have to do that for a longer period of time and do it in a playoff situation.

Franchise QB: someone who puts up huge numbers for a long period of time. Fouts, Marino, Rivers. He doesn't have to win a championship to bear the mantle.

Franchise QB: someone who manages the game well, is nails in the clutch and and does it year in and year out. He doesn't have to put up huge numbers. Roethlisberger, pre-2005 Brady, Aikman.

Not a franchise QB: A game manager that can be stopped by a playoff quality defense in a big game. He doesn't have big numbers and he fails to deliver the goods when it counts.

Honestly, no one knows which category Cassel falls in. Before the last few weeks, I thought he was and always would be in category 3. Now, I think he may have potential to become category 2. We can say that Cassel has turned the corner without saying he's arrived. We can root for him, and still hold doubts.

Earlier in the season I thought Cassel would be the limiting factor for the success of the 2010 Chiefs. I no longer think that is true. But the Chiefs as a team isn't where I aspire for them to be. If the team gets better, I'm still not convinced that he won't be the limiting factor at some point in the future. I'm really focused on us building a team that can be competitive for the SB for a decade or more.

[SAUTO]

Ok you think what you want but a being a bitch is the farthest thing from meThat reevks of 'personal agenda' from you, dude. I always wondered why people gave you shit but now I know why. If you're not going to throw people under the bus, don't be making those claims.

It's a no win for you, either way you look like a ****ing bitch.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pants]

Ok you think what you want but a being a bitch is the farthest thing from me
Posted via Mobile Device

That's what you say. Your actions speak louder, though. You're acting like a highschooler... "oooh, even your friends are talking shit on you behind your back..." Seriously? That's pretty much a bitch thing to say, man.

[SAUTO]

Lol ok... I'm confident enough to know myself that I'm telling the truth. I don't have to prove anything. I won't throw people under the bus.loyalty. He backed himself into this corner.

I just hope that now everyone sees him for what he is.

Someone with a personal vendetta who isn't man enough to stand behind his comments.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Nope that's just how it is. Not just what I say. Its fair to say that there are many people tired of the act that some put on here. Why do you think there is such a backlash?That's what you say. Your actions speak louder, though. You're acting like a highschooler... "oooh, even your friends are talking shit on you behind your back..." Seriously? That's pretty much a bitch thing to say, man.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ok you think what you want but a being a bitch is the farthest thing from me
Posted via Mobile Device

You've brought this on yourself.

You're personal vendetta against me got you in a little bit of hot water.

You just had to keep pushing, keep pushing.

You've pushed too far.

Only a coward would make a comment like that and then not own it.

You claim you're not a bitch right after you pull a bitch move like this.

Since Jason's a bitch, I'll just get this out in the open. Anyone who he's referring to, feel free to post in this thread or send me a PM and tell me how you feel.

I've always thought my "friends" know me well enough that they can tell me anything, to my face. They surely don't need to hide behind someone like Sauto.

So lets get it out in the open. Say your peace.


Of course, this is all assuming anything was actually said, or that I consider anyone who might have said something a "friend."

[SAUTO]

No hot water buddy. and again jason is not a bitch. Feel free to find ot for yourself anytime.You've brought this on yourself.

You're personal vendetta against me got you in a little bit of hot water.

You just had to keep pushing, keep pushing.

You've pushed too far.

Only a coward would make a comment like that and then not own it.

You claim you're not a bitch right after you pull a bitch move like this.

Since Jason's a bitch, I'll just get this out in the open. Anyone who he's referring to, feel free to post in this thread or send me a PM and tell me how you feel.

I've always thought my "friends" know me well enough that they can tell me anything, to my face. They surely don't need to hide behind someone like Sauto.

So lets get it out in the open. Say your peace.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bane]

http://i56.tinypic.com/rr0ci0.jpg

[DeezNutz]

No hot water buddy. and again jason is not a bitch. Feel free to find ot for yourself anytime.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO. MMA, too?

Dude. The "find out" sauce is weak. You're better than that. Meanwhile, I will continue to read this thread and gently chomp my favorite throw.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No hot water buddy. and again jason is not a bitch. Feel free to find ot for yourself anytime.
Posted via Mobile Device

And now you're going to threaten me, internet tough guy?

Sad.