Who deserves most of the credit for 2010?

[Hammock Parties]

There seems to be a lot of Haley bashing lately over the Weis blowup, while people are bowing and crooning to Lord Pioli The Magnificent.

Is this the generally accepted truth now?

Pioli started the engine of our AFC West Championship and Haley simply got out of the way before finally screwing it up in the end anyway?

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely interested in knowing who you think deserves more credit for a successful season.

And don't say "both," because that's a cop out. Himmler was nothing without Hitler, and Marty was the best thing that ever happened to Carl. Someone is the dominant force at work.

[MIAdragon]

the schedule.

[RealSNR]

Pioli sits in an office and makes phone calls all day.

Haley works with the players. He's in charge of inspiring, teaching, and training these guys all year round.

Look at the change in attitude of nearly everybody on this roster. That wasn't done by new acquisitions. That was done by Haley.

It's Todd and not even close

[Sofa King]

Clark

[keg in kc]

The impression I have is that their working relationship is more a partnership than anything else, and I would not be at all surprised to see one get Executive of the Year and one get Coach of the Year. So I'm going to say both. And I could not possibly care less whether you think that's a cop out or not. They're both integral.

[Mr. Kotter]

The impression I have is that their working relationship is more a partnership than anything else, and I would not be at all surprised to see one get Executive of the Year and one get Coach of the Year. So I'm going to say both. And I could not possibly care less whether you think that's a cop out or not. They're both integral.

THIS.

[jd1020]

Why are the coordinators not an option?

[kysirsoze]

I voted for Haley but that doesn't mean I support the assertion that Pioli was unworthy of the Exec OTY award.

[doomy3]

The impression I have is that their working relationship is more a partnership than anything else, and I would not be at all surprised to see one get Executive of the Year and one get Coach of the Year. So I'm going to say both. And I could not possibly care less whether you think that's a cop out or not. They're both integral.

Yeah, that's exactly how it should be.

[Hammock Parties]

Why are the coordinators not an option?

You need to click the third option, my child.

[jd1020]

You need to click the third option, my child.

That option has nothing to do with coordinators though. Thats just a option to bash Pioli/Haley saying that the NFCWest deserves the credit.

[Hammock Parties]

That option has nothing to do with coordinators though. Thats just a option to bash Pioli/Haley saying that the NFCWest deserves the credit.

You need to kill yourself, my child.

[jd1020]

You need to kill yourself, my child.

You're the one that made the poll, dumbass.

[kysirsoze]

That option has nothing to do with coordinators though. Thats just a option to bash Pioli/Haley saying that the NFCWest deserves the credit.

I think his point is if you give coordinators credit over the GM and HC then they are, in fact, frauds.

[Fritz88]

Pioli is the one who got us Romeo and Weis.
Posted via Mobile Device

[-King-]

So....there's an "neither" option. But there's no "both" option?

[jd1020]

So....there's an "neither" option. But there's no "both" option?

Because thats a "cop out" apparently.

[cmh6476]

poll fail, the real answer is St. Joseph, Missouri and its awesomeness in hosting the 2010 training camp

[chiefzilla1501]

Pioli sits in an office and makes phone calls all day.

Haley works with the players. He's in charge of inspiring, teaching, and training these guys all year round.

Look at the change in attitude of nearly everybody on this roster. That wasn't done by new acquisitions. That was done by Haley.

It's Todd and not even close

The change in attitude was driven by Pioli's insistent on bringing in young leaders and in being stubbornly insistent on sending out those who didn't buy in to the system, and keeping guys he knew would eventually grow to fit into the system.

It's not a cop-out not to vote. Pioli created a culture that made it a ton easier for Haley to coach and brought in some solid contributors, and Haley deserves credit for coaching up players like Bowe, DJ, and Cassel. They both deserve credit because if you took one of those guys out of the equation, the Chiefs wouldn't have been good this year.

[RustShack]

Charles and Hali.

[kstater]

I'll "cop out" and say both. They seemingly have sat down, hammered out a plan, and so far, have stuck to the plan. For the time being, it's paying off.

[CupidStunt]

Of these two, it's Pioli, and it's not close. But ultimately the 2008 draft and the schedule produced 2010's results. We'll see what happens in 11: another good draft? Development from 09 and/or 10? Further and perhaps more legitimate help in UFA?

QB: Pioli
RB: Haley likes to bench Charles a lot
WR: Haley/Weis, though only Bowe is relevant
OL: Pioli
DL: no one's done a good job here
LB: ditto, really (DJ/Hali = Vermeil/Herm)
DB: Pioli/Herm

[L.A. Chieffan]

Cassel is the one making everybody look good

[Reerun_KC]

I'll "cop out" and say both. They seemingly have sat down, hammered out a plan, and so far, have stuck to the plan. For the time being, it's paying off.

Same here, I voted the Both option....

[RealSNR]

The change in attitude was driven by Pioli's insistent on bringing in young leaders and in being stubbornly insistent on sending out those who didn't buy in to the system, and keeping guys he knew would eventually grow to fit into the system.

It's not a cop-out not to vote. Pioli created a culture that made it a ton easier for Haley to coach and brought in some solid contributors, and Haley deserves credit for coaching up players like Bowe, DJ, and Cassel. They both deserve credit because if you took one of those guys out of the equation, the Chiefs wouldn't have been good this year.Haley coached the shit out of the following players:

Albert
Bowe
Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Hali
Flowers/Carr
Waters
Richardson
Charles

And numerous others. They've all significantly improved under his watch. That's a credit to his high expectations, offseason workout regiment, and unique coaching/practice methods. He's made everybody on this team a believer.

You can have Pioli but if you have a dipshit like McDaniels as HC it doesn't work out. They both deserve credit but a great head coach like Haley is more valuable. Far more valuable.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

#1 is the schedule
#2 is Todd Haley, but he's not a fraud
#3 would be Pioli, but if you consider that in his first two years we've had two top five picks and three second rounders and mustered only a safety and a nickelback who look to be like solutions, that's a fucking travesty.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Haley coached the shit out of the following players:

Albert
Bowe
Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Hali
Flowers/Carr
Waters
Richardson
Charles

And numerous others. They've all significantly improved under his watch. That's a credit to his high expectations, offseason workout regiment, and unique coaching/practice methods. He's made everybody on this team a believer.

You can have Pioli but if you have a dipshit like McDaniels as HC it doesn't work out. They both deserve credit but a great head coach like Haley is more valuable. Far more valuable.

Even Barry Switzer won a SB. The coach is valuable, but the GM is far more important. We look to have a good, young coach. I don't know if you can say the same thing about the GM.

[CrazyPhuD]

the schedule.

That X10

[Extra Point]

#1 is the schedule
#2 is Todd Haley, but he's not a fraud
#3 would be Pioli, but if you consider that in his first two years we've had two top five picks and three second rounders and mustered only a safety and a nickelback who look to be like solutions, that's a ****ing travesty.

I'll buy your first two, yet, trades and pick-ups of productive waived/non-drafted players mean something above the draft. A draft-alone 10 year cycle is bogus.

[chiefzilla1501]

#1 is the schedule
#2 is Todd Haley, but he's not a fraud
#3 would be Pioli, but if you consider that in his first two years we've had two top five picks and three second rounders and mustered only a safety and a nickelback who look to be like solutions, that's a ****ing travesty.

If you honestly think the only thing Pioli has done is bring in a safety and nickel back, that's just plain ridiculous.

He has assembled a terrific coaching staff, and he has built a terrific foundation that is starting to look like we have terrific quality depth, and he built a culture of leaders that overachieved their talent. And he did so while barely spending any money, particularly in a year where good free agents weren't hitting the market.

Building a team isn't about stacking the roster with talented players. If that was the case, then the Bengals and the Redskins would be favorites every single year to win the Super Bowl.

[CupidStunt]

I can see giving Todd Haley credit for "coaching the shit out of" Branden Albert, given that's been shit since Haley took over.

[BigMeatballDave]

Pioli sits in an office and makes phone calls all day.

Haley works with the players. He's in charge of inspiring, teaching, and training these guys all year round.

Look at the change in attitude of nearly everybody on this roster. That wasn't done by new acquisitions. That was done by Haley.

It's Todd and not even closeIt is Todd, but it IS close. Those who bash Pioli for shitty personnel decisions must also give him credit for the good ones.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If you honestly think the only thing Pioli has done is bring in a safety and nickel back, that's just plain ridiculous.

He has assembled a terrific coaching staff, and he has built a terrific foundation that is starting to look like we have terrific quality depth, and he built a culture of leaders that overachieved their talent. And he did so while barely spending any money, particularly in a year where good free agents weren't hitting the market.

Building a team isn't about stacking the roster with talented players. If that was the case, then the Bengals and the Redskins would be favorites every single year to win the Super Bowl.

:facepalm:

I was talking about what he's done with our first and second rounders the last two years.

[Hammock Parties]

I love the fact that people are now crediting Pioli with Weis and Crennel.

Those are both Haley hires. He had prior relationships with both. You think he let Pioli shove them down his throat? Bullshit.

[Ming the Merciless]

Pioli is the GM and basically the buck stops with him. Just as he could ( and would ) take the blame for failures he should take credit where it is due. He is the driving force behind the organization, and will be there after Haley is gone. He is the head honcho. The man. El Numero Uno.

[Rasputin]

Chiefs WILL.

[Hammock Parties]

He is the driving force behind the organization, and will be there after Haley is gone.

Jesus, I hope not. We don't need a repeat of Carl Peterson.

[Buck]

How come there is no Norv option?

[CoMoChief]

The schedule, the Oline, Jamaal Charles

[Ming the Merciless]

Jesus, I hope not. We don't need a repeat of Carl Peterson.

So you think when Haley moves on, Pioli will be fired or just quit?

LOL

[Bugeater]

So you think when Haley moves on, Pioli will be fired or just quit?

LOL
"Moves on" to what?

[boogblaster]

The O greatly improved
The schedule
Haley

[Hammock Parties]

So you think when Haley moves on, Pioli will be fired or just quit?

LOL

I'm hopeful that Haley will be here for 15 years.

NFL GM is not a 15 or 20-year job. Go look at Bill Polian's career.

[RealSNR]

Pioli is the GM and basically the buck stops with him. Just as he could ( and would ) take the blame for failures he should take credit where it is due. He is the driving force behind the organization, and will be there after Haley is gone. He is the head honcho. The man. El Numero Uno.Using this parameter for ascertaining the most valuable upper-office guy, Clark Hunt is our MVP

[Ugly Duck]

Who deserves most of the credit for 2010?

The NFC West. Any other group of opponents would have folks today talking about KC only managing a record of 2-4 in the division. Chiefs got pasted by the AFCW with a combined score of 154-90, but swept the NFCW by a similar combined score of 156-77.

[TEX]

The NFC West. Any other group of opponents would have folks today talking about KC only managing a record of 2-4 in the division. Chiefs got pasted by the AFCW with a combined score of 154-90, but swept the NFCW by a similar combined score of 156-77.

What did the rest of the AFC West do against the NFC West?

[Ugly Duck]

What did the rest of the AFC West do against the NFC West?

Choked. But that doesn't address the OP's question.

[BigMeatballDave]

The NFC West. Any other group of opponents would have folks today talking about KC only managing a record of 2-4 in the division. Chiefs got pasted by the AFCW with a combined score of 154-90, but swept the NFCW by a similar combined score of 156-77.This would be an interesting point if the rest of the AFCW didnt blow chunks vs the NFCW.

[RealSNR]

What did the rest of the AFC West do against the NFC West?It's cute how the Raiders think they won a trophy for going 6-0 in the division. Let them have their fun

[Chiefnj2]

I'd say Crennel and Weis.

[BigMeatballDave]

NFL GM is not a 15 or 20-year job.Carl Peterson begs to differ...

[Hammock Parties]

Carl Peterson begs to differ...

Carl is the exception to the rule.

[TEX]

The schedule, the Oline, Jamaal Charles


The deal is the Chiefs were a shitty team in '09 and because of that got a "soft" schedule against equally shitty teams. However, they improved more than the other teams at their level and beat said shitty teams from the year before. The "easy" schedule formula worked as it was designed to do. There was improvement. They're a team that was "good" enough to do the things it had to do from week one to win the division. All the other teams in thier division could not. All they have to do to make up for next year's "tougher" schedule is concentrate on improving within thier division, and they know all those teams very well. It was a fun season and for the first time in a very long time they are headed in the right direction.

[TEX]

It's cute how the Raiders think they won a trophy for going 6-0 in the division. Let them have their fun

EXACTLY - and they even managed to BLOW it in the process! They're the ONLY team to go undefeated in their division, since the merger, and MISS THE PLAYOFFS! So, when they FINALLY have a NON-LOSING season (different from a winning season), they can't even do it right. It's like being the "smartest" retard...BFD!

(No offense intended to the PC crowd)

[Frazod]

Who deserves the most credit for our improved record? Pioli for last year's draft.

But who deserves the most credit for our division win?

Sadly, the San Diego Chargers.

Near the top of the league in offense and defense. They had absolutely no business finishing the season with less than 12 wins. Their inexplicable, raging, epic choke job opened the door for whichever of the other three teams was able to step up. We stepped the farthest. The division title was a gift-wrapped slice of charity from Norv Turner.

Had they played to their potential, we would have finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs by a mile. And frankly, we weren't a playoff caliber team. Baltimore beat us like a rented mule. We weren't ready, and probably won't be for another couple of years.

[Otter]

Who deserves the most credit for our improved record? Pioli for last year's draft.

But who deserves the most credit for our division win?

Sadly, the San Diego Chargers.

Near the top of the league in offense and defense. They had absolutely no business finishing the season with less than 12 wins. Their inexplicable, raging, epic choke job opened the door for whichever of the other three teams was able to step up. We stepped the farthest. The division title was a gift-wrapped slice of charity from Norv Turner.

Had they played to their potential, we would have finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs by a mile. And frankly, we weren't a playoff caliber team. Baltimore beat us like a rented mule. We weren't ready, and probably won't be for another couple of years.

If it's gonna happen with this crew it will in 2 or 3 years. Besides Cassell choking I think we're forgetting the strides taken in the last two years. Remember trying watching Herm's games? That's what they had to work with and look where it's at now.

Not saying you, just commenting on the overall tone of the thread and tone of the board.

PS - this poll is gayer than when claythan wears his grandmas panties and whacks off to richard simmons workout videos

[Frazod]

If it's gonna happen with this crew it will in 2 or 3 years. Besides Cassell choking I think we're forgetting the strides taken in the last two years. Remember trying watching Herm's games? That's what they had to work with and look where it's at now.

Not saying you, just commenting on the overall tone of the thread and tone of the board.

I'm not saying the team hasn't improved. But let's face it - our schedule was the NFL equivalent of KU's 2007 cakewalk. And it still took the Chargers pissing down their legs for us to eek out the division.

[philfree]

Carl Peterson begs to differ...

Lamar Hunt begs to differ. We'll see if Clark takes after his daddy.


PhilFree:arrow:

[WebGem]

I voted Haley. I don't think the question was worded correctly though. He shouldn't get "most" of the overall credit. He should get more than anyone else though. Pioli deserves a decent chunk of it also..

[Mr. Kotter]

I love the fact that people are now crediting Pioli with Weis and Crennel.

Those are both Haley hires. He had prior relationships with both. You think he let Pioli shove them down his throat? Bullshit.

And if you think Pioli didn't have anything to do with it...you are delusional. Pioli ALSO had a prior connection/relationship with both.

Hey, maybe those hires involved both Pioli and Haley? Duh. :hmmm:

[Frazod]

Fucking hell, Clayton, that avatar is going to give the whole damned BB nightmares! :eek:

[philfree]

Both of them.

Haley did a great job of pushing the right buttons of both offensive and defensive players. Bowe and DJs play were a big part of us wining games.

Pioli improved the interior of our O line with Weigman and lilja. Then he drafted Berry, Arenas and Lewis. Those moves were pretty good.

Who gets the credit for Weis and Crennel? I call that 50-50 because they're all familiar with each other.


PhilFree:arrow:

[Hammock Parties]

Fucking hell, Clayton, that avatar is going to give the whole damned BB nightmares! :eek:

...

http://i55.tinypic.com/2h7ku1y.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/28w1hua.jpg

[Frazod]

Your ass is going on ignore until you get past this phase of your gochiefness.

[jd1020]

He doesn't stay up long enough to watch the Proactiv infomercials.

[Hammock Parties]

Your ass is going on ignore until you get past this phase of your gochiefness.

C'mon, who doesn't like a good freakshow?

[Frazod]

C'mon, who doesn't like a good freakshow?

Dude, that's horrible.

[Bugeater]

Damn, that is messed up. Thank god for adblock.

[BossChief]

Damn, I wonder what happened for him to need stitches on his forehead...and then with all his money he just throws a couple .02 bandaids over it and goes in front of cameras?

Dammn...dude looks like a zombie.

...
Pioli deserves a lot of the credit, IMO most of it for 2010

Lilja
Weigman
Tucker
Weis
Crennel
Jones
Smith
Berry
Moeaki
Lewis
Asamoah
Arenas
DMC (disappointing after high ankle sprain, but as impressive before injury)

We entered last offseason with holes littered through the roster (about half of the roster IMO) and now we have narrowed that to about 6 or 7 spots before we are where we need to be.

[L.A. Chieffan]

looks like the sloth guy from the movie seven

[Frazod]

I think the worst part is the crusty greenish-brown crap. Is it dried puss? Dirt? Rotting flesh? Fuck.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=15yq8k" target="_blank"><img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/15yq8k.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>


al's twin

[jd1020]

I think the worst part is the crusty greenish-brown crap. Is it dried puss? Dirt? Rotting flesh? ****.

He probably popped a pimple when he was combing his hair back and he didnt notice it.

[Hammock Parties]

I think the worst part is the crusty greenish-brown crap. Is it dried puss? Dirt? Rotting flesh? Fuck.

You DO enjoy a good freakshow! :clap:

Al had skin cancer a few years ago. This is probably a side effect or something.

[BossChief]

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=15yq8k" target="_blank"><img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/15yq8k.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>


als twin

they put a lot of makeup into making Dan look fucked up in that movie and he looks healthier than Al does IRL.

[beach tribe]

#1 is the schedule
#2 is Todd Haley, but he's not a fraud
#3 would be Pioli, but if you consider that in his first two years we've had two top five picks and three second rounders and mustered only a safety and a nickelback who look to be like solutions, that's a ****ing travesty.


:facepalm:
Let's just completely forget about the TE, FS, G, and PK that we landed in those drafts just because they weren't first or 2nd rounders.
Only perrenially shitty teams are built around a bunch of high first rounders.

Nobody hits every pick.

[Bugeater]

I think the worst part is the crusty greenish-brown crap. Is it dried puss? Dirt? Rotting flesh? Fuck.
I'd rather not go back and look again to try and figure it out. I'm not even sure why I keep clicking back onto this thread.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

:facepalm:
Let's just completely forget about the TE, FS, G, and PK that we landed in those drafts just because they weren't first or 2nd rounders.
Only perrenially shitty teams are built around a bunch of high first rounders.

Nobody hits every pick.


No, but you shouldn't have Pioli's hit rate on those early picks, which are by far the most important. They are exponentially more important due to the talent available and the salary you have to pay them.

The mere fact that you're treating Ryan Succop like some kind of jewel shows the degrees to which you have to stretch your argument.

[jd1020]

I'd rather not go back and look again to try and figure it out. I'm not even sure why I keep clicking back onto this thread.

I think its because you're hoping his avatar walks on your avatars lawn.

[Bugeater]

I think its because you're hoping his avatar walks on your avatars lawn.
You can't kill someone who is already dead.

[cdcox]

Put me down as a big Haley fan. I'm not anti-Pioli unless this Cassel situation festers like an infected wound for another 3 years.

[J Diddy]

I gotta say it was me. I wore the same socks the whole year.

[alanm]

Jesus, I hope not. We don't need a repeat of Carl Peterson.They may be a team at the moment but their not joined at the hip. If Haley were to go somewhere else Pioli doesn't go with him. Conversely if Pioli gets canned Haley will also as well.

[J Diddy]

They may be a team at the moment but their not joined at the hip. If Haley were to go somewhere else Pioli doesn't go with him. Conversely if Pioli gets canned Haley will also as well.



I wouldn't say exclusively. Depends who they brought in as gm.

[alanm]

...

http://i55.tinypic.com/2h7ku1y.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/28w1hua.jpg Al's not even dead yet and he's decomposing.
Someone needs to find him the blood of a virgin for a transfusion.
Probably impossible in Oakland much less the rest of the US.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Pioli is the GM and basically the buck stops with him. Just as he could ( and would ) take the blame for failures he should take credit where it is due. He is the driving force behind the organization, and will be there after Haley is gone. He is the head honcho. The man. El Numero Uno.

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/PIOLIMEMOSCALED.png

[J Diddy]

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/PIOLIMEMOSCALED.pnglol

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'd say Crennel and Weis.

If you add "Haley as the Head Coach, BEING a Head Coach and focusing on that instead of juggling two jobs", I say:

This.

[J Diddy]

If you add "Haley as the Head Coach, BEING a Head Coach and focusing on that instead of juggling two jobs", I say:

This.



I would be inclined to agree with you if you add me not changing my socks

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I would be inclined to agree with you if you add me not changing my socks

Well, if they weren't so damned filthy you might have an argument!

[J Diddy]

Well, if they weren't so damned filthy you might have an argument!


It is only when my willpower waivered that the team faltered. Fucking matt cassell.

[TimeForWasp]

I think it's the new stadium same soul.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It is only when my willpower waivered that the team faltered. Fucking matt cassell.

All of the Faith under Heaven can not compensate for the lack of talent that plagues us at the QB position. Until we change that post-Dawson history by winning Championships, we are just recycling bad mojo.:toast:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I think it's the new stadium same soul.


New Soul, please.

[J Diddy]

I think it's the new stadium same soul.



New stadium same 0

[TimeForWasp]

...

http://i55.tinypic.com/2h7ku1y.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/28w1hua.jpg

look at those nasty stitches on his head. Did Tom Cable beat his ass before he left?

[J Diddy]

look at those nasty stitches on his head. Did Tom Cable beat his ass before he left?

Like he was his girlfriend.

[007]

Even though I have never really cared for Haley and didn't want him from the start, I have to go with Haley on this poll.

[stevieray]

Clark Hunt