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'Hamas' Jenkins
01-22-2011, 05:22 PM
1. Carolina: Fairley
2. Denver: Bowers
3. Buffalo: Von Miller---HOLY SHIT
4. Cincy:AJ Green
5. Arizona: Robert Quinn
6. Cleveland: Marcel Darius
7. SF:Patrick Peterson
8. Tennessee: Blaine Gabbert
9. Dallas: Prince Amukamara
10. Washington: Ryan "Scarface" Mallett
11. Houston: Stephen Paea
12. Minnesota: Cam Newton
13. Detroit: Akeem Ayers
14. St. Louis: Julio Jones
15. Miami: Mark Ingram
16. Jacksonville: Ryan Kerrigan
17. New England: Aldon Smith
18. San Diego: JJ Watt
19. NYG: Corey Liuget
20. Tampa: Adrian Clayborn
21. KC: Anthony Castonzo:

Many, including this website, felt the Chiefs would take Bryan Bulaga in the first round last year and while they are certainly very happy with Eric Berry the right tackle position remains a major problem area. After the way Ryan O’Callaghan and Barry Richardson played this season, perhaps they will finally be motivated to bring in an upgrade. Boston College has a strong tradition of sending offensive linemen to the NFL and Anthony Castonzo is the next in a long line of top Eagle blockers. While Castonzo may not be a “Franchise Left Tackle” he has both the physical tools and intangibles to be an above average starter on either the left or right side for a very long time. Kansas City also needs another wide receiver to team with Dwayne Bowe and Pittsburgh’s Jon Baldwin could be an option, especially if he works out as well as expected. The nose tackle position is a problem area as well and Stephen Paea of Oregon St. could be a consideration if he fell this far. Don’t rule out a 'backer either because outside of Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson there are more questions than answers.

22. Indy: Nate Solder
23. Philly: Brandon Harris
24. New Orleans: Cameron Jordan
25. Seattle: Jake Locker
26. Baltimore: Aaron Williams
27. Atlanta: Allen Bailey
28. New England: Cameron Heyward
29. Green Bay: Justin Houston
30. NYJ: Jon Baldwin
31. Chicago: Tyron Smith
32. Pittsburgh: Mike Pouncey

That Castonzo pick looks vomitous considering some of the talent that comes off from 22-32.

SAUTO
01-22-2011, 05:28 PM
I agree with the last sentence
Posted via Mobile Device

jd1020
01-22-2011, 08:49 PM
Hmmm.

I like who he has Washington picking. It's like he doesn't realize who the coach is.

jwazzie
01-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Cameron Heyward please

KC_Lee
01-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Cam Newton at 12?

Brock
01-22-2011, 09:15 PM
That's brutal.

JimBaker488
01-22-2011, 09:34 PM
Gabberts still got to be doing hand-stands after Andy Luck decided to return to Stanford this Fall ?
**
Hey, anybody got an opinion on Aldon Smith, the Mizzou edge-rusher who's coming out early ?

keg in kc
01-22-2011, 10:10 PM
[/B]Many, including this website, felt the Chiefs would take Bryan Bulaga in the first round last year and while they are certainly very happy with Eric Berry the right tackle position remains a major problem area. Yeah boy, I'm sure pissed we didn't spend the 5th pick of the draft on a right tackle.

Chiefs=Champions
01-22-2011, 10:31 PM
Yeah boy, I'm sure pissed we didn't spend the 5th pick of the draft on a right tackle.

LMAO

googlegoogle
01-22-2011, 11:16 PM
New Vikings coach making his first mistake. Never give head coaches draft power.

Chiefnj2
01-23-2011, 11:18 AM
What's sad is that there are a bunch of quality 34 DE's sitting at 21 this year. Too bad they wasted that pick with TJax.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-23-2011, 11:52 AM
What's sad is that there are a bunch of quality 34 DE's sitting at 21 this year. Too bad they wasted that pick with TJax.

Also true. Heyward and Bailey are both superior prospects.

Sfeihc
01-23-2011, 11:57 AM
It will takes years of good drafts by Pioli to live down that debacle of a first draft he had as GM of the Chiefs. I mean really, Mr. Freakin' Irrelevant is the best player from that Chiefs draft class. WTF!

tyton75
01-23-2011, 03:49 PM
If Locker was still there at our pick.. could we pass on him?

jd1020
01-23-2011, 04:12 PM
If Locker was still there at our pick.. could we pass on him?

Yes, without even blinking.

Hammock Parties
01-23-2011, 04:17 PM
RT in the first round is a luxury pick. We are in no position to take one that high.

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 09:59 PM
RT in the first round is a luxury pick. We are in no position to take one that high.

And what position, pray tell, would present more of an importance in terms of need combined with relevance to the Cheifs?

I dare anyone to come up with a position of greater need to the Chiefs at this point as it relates to their draft position than offensive tackle.

I hope this is a sarcasm post. If not, I'd suggest laying off the meth.

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 10:00 PM
And what position, pray tell, would present more of an importance in terms of need combined with relevance to the Cheifs?

I dare anyone to come up with a position of greater need to the Chiefs at this point as it relates to their draft position than offensive tackle.

I hope this is a sarcasm post. If not, I'd suggest laying off the meth.

QB, NT, WR and LB.

Crush
01-23-2011, 10:05 PM
We need a NT, OLB, and WR more than a right tackle.

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 10:25 PM
We need a NT, OLB, and WR more than a right tackle.

No, we don't.

Go ask Jay Cutler if the Bears need a OLB, NT or WR more than they need an offensive tackle.

This team will never compete unless we solidify the offensive line. Playoff teams are too good defensively, and can dominate the time of possession because of good offensive lines.

Ravens kicked our shit in because our offensive line couldn't block them. You think that a OLB or NT is going to help this team block the opposing defensive lines in the playoffs? Not a chance.

We've already got a first round OLB. (Hell, two of our four LB's are first round draft picks, and another is a multiple Pro Bowler.) We've already got two top five draft picks (in the last three years mind you) on a 3-4 defensive line. We've got a first round WR as our #1. But yet, we haven't had but one offensive line draft pick in the first three rounds since 1999. And yet we continue to suck. Weird. But I bet that if we draft one more defensive lineman, linebacker or wide receiver in the first yet again, it will be the missing piece to the puzzle and really put the team back on top.

Chris Meck
01-23-2011, 10:25 PM
as far as draft position value? NT, WR, OLB.

Chris Meck
01-23-2011, 10:29 PM
our line is crap IN THE MIDDLE. Casey Wiegmann was a nice player in his prime as a PULLING CENTER. He is TOO SMALL to hold up against bigger defensive tackles and Nose tackles that outweigh him by a minimum of 30 pounds. He CANNOT block anyone straight up, one on one.

I don't know what games you watch, but when the outside rushers come out wide and the QB cannot step up into the pocket (because there ain't one due to the center being thrown on his ass) you're in trouble.

I'm not even saying our T's are awesome. They're adequate. Our C situation (and really, LG situation-Waters in no way deserves pro bowl status at this point in his career) are the problem.

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 10:35 PM
our line is crap IN THE MIDDLE. Casey Wiegmann was a nice player in his prime as a PULLING CENTER. He is TOO SMALL to hold up against bigger defensive tackles and Nose tackles that outweigh him by a minimum of 30 pounds. He CANNOT block anyone straight up, one on one.

I don't know what games you watch, but when the outside rushers come out wide and the QB cannot step up into the pocket (because there ain't one due to the center being thrown on his ass) you're in trouble.

I'm not even saying our T's are awesome. They're adequate. Our C situation (and really, LG situation-Waters in no way deserves pro bowl status at this point in his career) are the problem.

Go back and watch the San Francisco game. Wiegmann thoroughly dominated Aubrayo Franklin. Kicked his ass. Go tell me where, in any game this season, any of our offensive tackles did the same to anyone they played against.

Our tackles are not adequate. They are fucking atrocious. Wiegmann was easily the best player on the offensive line this past season. It's not even close.

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 10:37 PM
No, we don't.

Go ask Jay Cutler if the Bears need a OLB, NT or WR more than they need an offensive tackle.

This team will never compete unless we solidify the offensive line. Playoff teams are too good defensively, and can dominate the time of possession because of good offensive lines.

Ravens kicked our shit in because our offensive line couldn't block them. You think that a OLB or NT is going to help this team block the opposing defensive lines in the playoffs? Not a chance.

We've already got a first round OLB. (Hell, two of our four LB's are first round draft picks, and another is a multiple Pro Bowler.) We've already got two top five draft picks (in the last three years mind you) on a 3-4 defensive line. We've got a first round WR as our #1. But yet, we haven't had but one offensive line draft pick in the first three rounds since 1999. And yet we continue to suck. Weird. But I bet that if we draft one more defensive lineman, linebacker or wide receiver in the first yet again, it will be the missing piece to the puzzle and really put the team back on top.

I have no problem going O-line after the 1st, but last time I checked most Super Bowl teams are chock full of 1st rounders on the O-line.

But keep on screaming, 1st round o-lineman are the key to building a winner.

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 10:38 PM
Go back and watch the San Francisco game. Wiegmann thoroughly dominated Aubrayo Franklin. Kicked his ass. Go tell me where, in any game this season, any of our offensive tackles did the same to anyone they played against.

Our tackles are not adequate. They are ****ing atrocious. Wiegmann was easily the best player on the offensive line this past season. It's not even close.

Our line was so bad we couldn't even run the ball. :deevee:

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 10:53 PM
I have no problem going O-line after the 1st, but last time I checked most Super Bowl teams are chock full of 1st rounders on the O-line.

But keep on screaming, 1st round o-lineman are the key to building a winner.

I don't give a shit where they are drafted. Just put someone of quality there. Albert's a first rounder, and I can't wait until they flush that turd from the tackle position.

However, it's a lot easier to get a player of quality in the first round versus finding the veritable "diamond in the rough" later on in the draft. And if the guy can't play tackle, he'll, at the very least, be a decent guard. It's not like you pick a wide receiver or linebacker and then are stuck with a tomato can because if he sucks at that position, it's all he's got. It's an easy way to building decent depth at a position of importance while minimizing the "bust" factor.

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 10:55 PM
I don't give a shit where they are drafted. Just put someone of quality there. Albert's a first rounder, and I can't wait until they flush that turd from the tackle position.

However, it's a lot easier to get a player of quality in the first round versus finding the veritable "diamond in the rough" later on in the draft. And if the guy can't play tackle, he'll, at the very least, be a decent guard. It's not like you pick a wide receiver or linebacker and then are stuck with a tomato can because if he sucks at that position, it's all he's got. It's an easy way to building decent depth at a position of importance while minimizing the "bust" factor.

If we draft a guy to be a T and he can't do that it isn't considered a good thing he can now be a guard. That means you blew the pick.

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 10:58 PM
If we draft a guy to be a T and he can't do that it isn't considered a good thing he can now be a guard. That means you blew the pick.

Oh, so if he turns out to be a quality starting guard, that's a bad thing? Versus a "playmaker" like Jamarcus Russell, Charles Rogers, Vernon Gholston, ad nauseum?

Urc Burry
01-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Oh, so if he turns out to be a quality starting guard, that's a bad thing? Versus a "playmaker" like Jamarcus Russell, Charles Rogers, Vernon Gholston, ad nauseum?

That's why we have Lilja, Waters, and Asomoah coming up:hmmm:

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 11:07 PM
Oh, so if he turns out to be a quality starting guard, that's a bad thing? Versus a "playmaker" like Jamarcus Russell, Charles Rogers, Vernon Gholston, ad nauseum?

Do you think the Raiders look at picking Gallery as a good pick? Or the Cards picking Leonard Davis?

If you're talking late round pick, sure, but 1st rounders are guys who are supposed to be your difference makers.

Saccopoo
01-23-2011, 11:19 PM
Do you think the Raiders look at picking Gallery as a good pick? Or the Cards picking Leonard Davis?

If you're talking late round pick, sure, but 1st rounders are guys who are supposed to be your difference makers.

If the guy can't play tackle, but ends up as a Pro Bowl guard, I'd say that it's still a decent pick. Teams pick guards and centers in the first round as well hoping that they'll be Pro Bowl level players.

If you pick a quarterback in the first and he busts, there isn't much else you can do with him other than curl into a fetal position and cry to yourself.

Oh, or am I missing where we turned Todd Blackledge into that Pro Bowl wide receiver and everyone was happy?

Bewbies
01-23-2011, 11:23 PM
If the guy can't play tackle, but ends up as a Pro Bowl guard, I'd say that it's still a decent pick. Teams pick guards and centers in the first round as well hoping that they'll be Pro Bowl level players.

If you pick a quarterback in the first and he busts, there isn't much else you can do with him other than curl into a fetal position and cry to yourself.

Oh, or am I missing where we turned Todd Blackledge into that Pro Bowl wide receiver and everyone was happy?

If you are Scott Pioli we all need to shoot ourselves.

aturnis
01-23-2011, 11:40 PM
By your logic, you should have no problem drafting Tackles later, b/c if they aren't good enough, we'll just move them inside. If a 4th round tackle starts at tackle it's jackpot, if he starts elsewhere on the line, bonus.

That is why you HAVE to take certain positions with the first round pick. There is a higher likelihood they will not turn into tomato cans. Therefore, can contribute.

Hammock Parties
01-23-2011, 11:44 PM
And what position, pray tell, would present more of an importance in terms of need combined with relevance to the Cheifs?

I dare anyone to come up with a position of greater need to the Chiefs at this point as it relates to their draft position than offensive tackle.

I hope this is a sarcasm post. If not, I'd suggest laying off the meth.

You can find right tackles anywhere in the draft, or even free agency, and it's not out of the realm that Richardson improves. You're acting like he's Jordan Black, who gave up 13 sacks one year. Richardson gave up 5 this year.

The entire defenses hinges on getting a nose tackle, and the entire passing game hinges on getting another wide receiver. The pass rush will not be improved without an OLB.

The first pick absolutely has to be one of those positions.

RT is not an impact position. We could upgrade it and see hardly any difference in the offense.

Hammock Parties
01-23-2011, 11:45 PM
Ravens kicked our shit in because our offensive line couldn't block them.

That is bullshit.

The line was OK in the playoff game. We ran the ball well and Cassel had time to throw apart from a few plays.

A real WR opposite Bowe would have made a giant difference vs the Ravens vs a RT.

aturnis
01-24-2011, 12:27 AM
That is bullshit.

The line was OK in the playoff game. We ran the ball well and Cassel had time to throw apart from a few plays.

A real WR opposite Bowe would have made a giant difference vs the Ravens vs a RT.

Agreed. If the Chiefs have someone to throw the ball to other than Bowe and Moeaki, especially a deep threat, this offense will open wide up. All of a sudden, Bowe is open more, Moeaki is open more and the defense isn't stacked to stock the amazing Jamaal Charles. Don't forget Cassel threw 27 TD's to 7 INT's behind this line, ranking among the top 10 QB's many categories and Jamaal Charles ran wild averaging 6.4ypc behind this line. Imagine what he could do if he had another decent target or two.

Your argument about improving the tackles to help Jones be all that he can't be is asinine. Mostly b/c 90% of TJ's carries are in the middle, where a center would help most. Also, Wegs was not even CLOSE to the top lineman on this line.

The only games I can think of where the Oline completely embarrassed were the first Broncos game, the second Chargers game and the second Raiders game. Two of those were b/c the opposing team sent blitzes ALL DAY LONG! The way to BEAT the blitz is to throw to where the blitz is coming from. We couldn't do that, Bowe and Moeaki could only be in one place at a time. The Raiders game was a lot of their d line being BADASS but they also sent A LOT of blitzes. Your argument gets weaker.

Also, the real common denominator for the teams that are successful year in and year out in this league, is that they are the ones with top ranked defenses. That is why they say defense wins you championships. It is easier to take the opposing teams QB, or RB out of a game to nullify their offense than it is for a good to great offense to beat a top defense. You think Tom Brady wants to upgrade his offensive line? Cuz they averaged 32ppg, yet they couldn't beat the Jets. Who have a MUCH less potent offense which averages 10ppg less than NE. Defense won again. Does more often than not.

jd1020
01-24-2011, 12:35 AM
Agreed. If the Chiefs have someone to throw the ball to other than Bowe and Moeaki, especially a deep threat, this offense will open wide up. All of a sudden, Bowe is open more, Moeaki is open more and the defense isn't stacked to stock the amazing Jamaal Charles. Don't forget Cassel threw 27 TD's to 7 INT's behind this line, ranking among the top 10 QB's many categories and Jamaal Charles ran wild averaging 6.4ypc behind this line. Imagine what he could do if he had another decent target or two.

Cassel, himself, is not a deep threat QB. So wtf does a deep threat WR improve on?

We need another big WR with sure hands and excellent blocking.

Hammock Parties
01-24-2011, 12:52 AM
Cassel, himself, is not a deep threat QB. So wtf does a deep threat WR improve on?

We need another big WR with sure hands and excellent blocking.

I agree that Cassel isn't going to loosen up any defenses.

What we need is a guy who can get open consistently and at least provide the threat of a deep ball. Someone who can run a 20-yard corner pattern and get in and out of breaks quick enough that he presents a matchup problem.

We don't need another Bowe. We need someone like Kennison.

jd1020
01-24-2011, 01:11 AM
I agree that Cassel isn't going to loosen up any defenses.

What we need is a guy who can get open consistently and at least provide the threat of a deep ball. Someone who can run a 20-yard corner pattern and get in and out of breaks quick enough that he presents a matchup problem.

We don't need another Bowe. We need someone like Kennison.

Torrey Smith, then? There really arent many blazers like Kennison. I'd be more than happy with a trade down to an early second + ?? for Torrey Smith.

Hammock Parties
01-24-2011, 01:14 AM
Torrey Smith, then? There really arent many blazers like Kennison.

Kennison wasn't running a 4.3 when he was with the Chiefs, and definitely not in his best season as a Chief. He knew how to get separation though and that was what made him successful.

I'm really tired of listening to Dawson bitch at least once a quarter about how no one is getting any separation. We need a guy who can do that.

jd1020
01-24-2011, 01:16 AM
Kennison wasn't running a 4.3 when he was with the Chiefs, and definitely not in his best season as a Chief. He knew how to get separation though and that was what made him successful.

I'm really tired of listening to Dawson bitch at least once a quarter about how no one is getting any separation. We need a guy who can do that.

Well, Baldwin is most likely the only "big name" WR on the board come #21 and the last thing he does is get seperation.

Buns
01-25-2011, 02:17 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

bowener
01-25-2011, 05:05 PM
Well, Baldwin is most likely the only "big name" WR on the board come #21 and the last thing he does is get seperation.

I would think that most people who draft him are going to use him like Floyd or Jackson out of SD. They don't get a lot of separation, but they are fucking huge and use their bodies like tight ends. No corner can play up on the line with them either, they just get man handled, so with guys like Baldwin you should be able to get 5 yards a pass with them at minimum. The Chiefs offense isn't reliant on the deep ball either. If Baldwin can run block worth a shit, catch everything away from his body with his hands, and has a decent brain, then he wouldn't be a bad pick.

Granted, Cassel has to be willing to throw the ball to him knowing a DB is nearby, but with his size he should be able to grab any decent pass without much trouble. I would rather the Chiefs get somebody in FA that can possibly stretch the field some, but is also willing to go over the middle. Fitzgerald is an obvious example of the WR I am talking about, but the Chiefs will not trade for him. Sims-Walker would be a great signing if the Chiefs could pull that off (he is a FA, right?).

Saccopoo
01-25-2011, 05:26 PM
I agree that Cassel isn't going to loosen up any defenses.

What we need is a guy who can get open consistently and at least provide the threat of a deep ball. Someone who can run a 20-yard corner pattern and get in and out of breaks quick enough that he presents a matchup problem.

We don't need another Bowe. We need someone like Kennison.

Holy shit! You really think that Cassel is going to have time to throw 20 yarders? LOL! The fucking guy is forced to throw 1 yard screens because the line can't block shit.

The Chiefs could have Bowe, Rice and Largent line up at the wideout spots and it wouldn't do jack shit because Cassel couldn't get them the ball.

It's why they drafted McCluster in the second - to give him a guy who had the potential to turn those 1 yard dump off passes into big plays.

Bewbies
01-25-2011, 06:21 PM
Holy shit! You really think that Cassel is going to have time to throw 20 yarders? LOL! The ****ing guy is forced to throw 1 yard screens because the line can't block shit.

The Chiefs could have Bowe, Rice and Largent line up at the wideout spots and it wouldn't do jack shit because Cassel couldn't get them the ball.

It's why they drafted McCluster in the second - to give him a guy who had the potential to turn those 1 yard dump off passes into big plays.

:deevee:

SAUTO
01-25-2011, 06:39 PM
Are you high? He played well against san fran. Not so much against any other 3 4 NTsGo back and watch the San Francisco game. Wiegmann thoroughly dominated Aubrayo Franklin. Kicked his ass. Go tell me where, in any game this season, any of our offensive tackles did the same to anyone they played against.

Our tackles are not adequate. They are fucking atrocious. Wiegmann was easily the best player on the offensive line this past season. It's not even close.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hammock Parties
01-25-2011, 09:07 PM
Holy shit! You really think that Cassel is going to have time to throw 20 yarders? LOL! The fucking guy is forced to throw 1 yard screens because the line can't block shit.


No, he's forced to do that because we have one wide receiver who can get open consistently in the process of running an NFL route tree.

Did you even watch the playoff game? Cassel was sitting back there with happy feet, pumping and desperately looking for open receivers in clean pockets. He had time.

Pass protection is an issue for this team, but only against elite pass rushes like Indianapolis and Oakland, and wide receiver is a far greater issue.

bowener
01-25-2011, 09:39 PM
No, he's forced to do that because we have one wide receiver who can get open consistently in the process of running an NFL route tree.

Did you even watch the playoff game? Cassel was sitting back there with happy feet, pumping and desperately looking for open receivers in clean pockets. He had time.

Pass protection is an issue for this team, but only against elite pass rushes like Indianapolis and Oakland, and wide receiver is a far greater issue.

:clap: Very good post.

aturnis
01-25-2011, 10:23 PM
Not to mention he seems to think we ran all kinds of screen plays. Most fans were screaming that we didn't run enough screens with a guy like Charles out there.

jd1020
01-25-2011, 10:25 PM
Not to mention he seems to think we ran all kinds of screen plays. Most fans were screaming that we didn't run enough screens with a guy like Charles out there.

I was one of them.

aturnis
01-25-2011, 10:31 PM
I was one of them.

And how many screens would you say we ran per game?

jd1020
01-25-2011, 10:34 PM
And how many screens would you say we ran per game?

Too little to even remember. Probably wouldnt run out of fingers counting the screens we threw to Charles over the entire season.

tyler360
01-25-2011, 10:49 PM
I would love to go a year without everyone giving us a tackle in the first round.

Just one year.

Hammock Parties
01-26-2011, 01:30 AM
I'd be fine with OLB, and the bolded parts scream "Patriot Way"



Justin Houston - Georgia (HT: 6-3 - WT: 258)
Combine 40: N/A - Pro Day 40: N/A - Position Rank: 1 of 30


Positives: Excellent size and build to play outside in a 3-4 scheme, has good bulk and above-average strength for the position... Sack totals have been very impressive (21 career sacks, 11 in 2010)... Pretty good speed for his size... Monster in the weight room, power cleaned 420 pounds during workouts in 2009, is a workout warrior... Was named Butkus Award finalist for 2010 as one of nation's standout linebackers... Very humble and modest, feels the need to constantly improve and works hard to get better in every facet of the game, sets a good example as a leader for his teammates... Is very quick off the snap, times the count well and has an explosive first step off the line... Is fairly disciplined and plays with good instincts as both a five-technique end and an outside linebacker... Uses hands well when engaged with blockers, maintains balance and keeps play-side hand free on most occasions... Utilizes hefty frame and strong upper body when engaged with blockers, stays relatively low and will not get pushed away from running plays directly at him... Has the intangibles to be a big-time pass rusher and solid all-around player and leader in the NFL because of good motor and strong work ethic.

Negatives: Was suspended for the first two games of 2009 for violating team rules, but has since stayed out of trouble and handled the suspension well... Tends to give up on plays when across the field, has a good motor off the snap, but stops when play is too far away... Does not take very good angles in pursuit down field... Tends to tackle too high and does not drive through every tackle, but can afford to do so in traffic because he wraps up well and doesn't miss many tackles... Plays much more like a weakside defensive end on first and second down than he does a linebacker, can get too deep into the backfield and get out of position on plays up the middle of the line... Will never be very proficient in coverage, will be suitable to defend short routes in the NFL, but will likely be predominantly a pass rusher... Has only a year of experience as a 3-4 OLB, so 3-4 teams expecting to use him in that capacity will need to factor in a learning curve at the position.

Chiefnj2
01-26-2011, 06:58 AM
No, he's forced to do that because we have one wide receiver who can get open consistently in the process of running an NFL route tree.

Did you even watch the playoff game? Cassel was sitting back there with happy feet, pumping and desperately looking for open receivers in clean pockets. He had time.

Pass protection is an issue for this team, but only against elite pass rushes like Indianapolis and Oakland, and wide receiver is a far greater issue.

Even if everything you said is true, that doesn't necessarily mean you pass up a RT who has graded higher than a WR.

Frosty
01-26-2011, 08:24 AM
Not to mention he seems to think we ran all kinds of screen plays. Most fans were screaming that we didn't run enough screens with a guy like Charles out there.

It seemed to me that when they did run a screen, it rarely worked.

Frosty
01-26-2011, 08:29 AM
I'd be fine with OLB, and the bolded parts scream "Patriot Way"

Speaking of "Patriot Way", Mayock was saying Ryan Kerrigan was a Vrabel clone. This wouldn't be a surprise pick to me.

Saccopoo
01-26-2011, 12:20 PM
No, he's forced to do that because we have one wide receiver who can get open consistently in the process of running an NFL route tree.

Did you even watch the playoff game? Cassel was sitting back there with happy feet, pumping and desperately looking for open receivers in clean pockets. He had time.

Pass protection is an issue for this team, but only against elite pass rushes like Indianapolis and Oakland, and wide receiver is a far greater issue.

I'd counter by saying that it's not the receivers. Between Bowe and Moeaki, there is enough talent to get the ball downfield. I'm all for picking up a solid #2 in this draft. Hell, I loathe Pioli for not picking Austin Collie in the 4th in 2009, and I think that if the Chiefs don't have their head up their collective asses, they could pick up a guy like Austin Pettis in the third this year or Hankerson in the second (though it sounds like he's moving up based on his Senior Bowl performance). Pettis has hands of glue, runs excellent routes and has a nose for the end zone. He's also really long and has no problem extending for the ball. Outside of Green, I think he's the best receiver in this draft, but will be devalued because of his lack of timed speed.

Vincent Brown of San Diego State is also a quality receiver. Great hands. Doesn't have the size, but he's a stud. He'll probably be there in the fourth or fifth rounds.

However, as you mentioned above and as I implied towards, I would also like the Chiefs to look at a quarterback that can actually go through his progressions and has some semblance of pocket presence. I still think Cassel is a liability and could be upgraded.

As well, as you stated, pass protection is an issue. We play against the Raiders twice, San Diego twice (both teams were tied for second in sacks on the season, one behind Pittsburgh) and Dumervil will be back next season. That's six games against a pretty good pass rush. Pass protection needs to be upgraded as neither Richardson nor Albert are very good at it.

Hammock Parties
01-26-2011, 12:27 PM
Between Bowe and Moeaki, there is enough talent to get the ball downfield.

Not against good defenses. Last year any team with either an elite pass rush or an elite player in the secondary took the Chiefs' offense and threw it in the shitter. I think it's partially due to the fact that we only have one wide receiver, and partially to the fact that Cassel isn't a guy who's going to take an average receiver and get more out of him.

If Moeaki had the skills of a Vernon Davis or Tony Gonzalez we'd be a lot better off, but he doesn't. He's a good tight end but I don't think he'll ever make a Pro Bowl.

Saccopoo
01-26-2011, 12:41 PM
Not against good defenses. Last year any team with either an elite pass rush or an elite player in the secondary took the Chiefs' offense and threw it in the shitter. I think it's partially due to the fact that we only have one wide receiver, and partially to the fact that Cassel isn't a guy who's going to take an average receiver and get more out of him.

If Moeaki had the skills of a Vernon Davis or Tony Gonzalez we'd be a lot better off, but he doesn't. He's a good tight end but I don't think he'll ever make a Pro Bowl.

He's shown enough as a rookie to make me not too worried about the position. He's not a Sharpe or Gonzalez as you state, but he's more than adequate.

A #2 WR needs to be found. It's a very nice wide receiver draft and I'll be disappointed if they don't come away with someone to fill that spot.

I saw your thread about Green, but I don't think it's prudent to be trading up for a guy and potentially losing picks in the process. I'm still really disappointed in the Moeaki pick last year in that we lost a fifth rounder to move up eight spots to take him when Hernandez and Pitta and Moeaki were still on the board. We would have got a quality tight end in the fourth regardless. Too many holes to justify losing draft picks.

They also need better pass protection so Cassel can get the time to get the ball downfield.

talastan
01-26-2011, 12:42 PM
Gabe Carimi is my pick for RT and he isn't even listed on this mock in the first. He is supposed to be a mauler better suited for RT. Pick a NT, OLB, or WR in the first and then in the second look to O-line. Whether RT, C, or G use your second or third to pick up your oline prospects

El Jefe
01-26-2011, 12:47 PM
I'd be fine with OLB, and the bolded parts scream "Patriot Way"

I have followed Justin Houston pretty closely recently, he is going to be a BEAST.

Bewbies
01-26-2011, 01:46 PM
They also need better pass protection so Cassel can get the time to get the ball downfield.

Dude, you write this in every. single. post.

the Talking Can
01-26-2011, 03:02 PM
We need to acquire a FA WR and draft one later...time to spend some real $$ and get player for a crucial need.

Houston interests me, but i really have no idea what his upside is...and if he can't cover, then what stops teams from Raven-ing us?

The Franchise
01-26-2011, 03:05 PM
We need to acquire a FA WR and draft one later...time to spend some real $$ and get player for a crucial need.

Houston interests me, but i really have no idea what his upside is...and if he can't cover, then what stops teams from Raven-ing us?

I'd love to pick up James Jones from Green Bay. If we could only grab 2 players in FA....I'd go with Jones and Ryan Kalil.

DJ's left nut
01-26-2011, 04:56 PM
I'd love to pick up James Jones from Green Bay. If we could only grab 2 players in FA....I'd go with Jones and Ryan Kalil.

Jones, maddening drops aside, has been high on my target list as well.

He has size and great downfield speed that could help relax coverage on Bowe.

On the other hand, every single time a ball was dropped downfield by a Packers WR, I pretty much assumed it was James Jones that dropped it. 7 times out of 10, I was accurate. The guy has very spotty hands.

I think there's a pretty good chance we would come to hate him if he played for us.

SAUTO
01-26-2011, 05:00 PM
Not against good defenses. Last year any team with either an elite pass rush or an elite player in the secondary took the Chiefs' offense and threw it in the shitter. I think it's partially due to the fact that we only have one wide receiver, and partially to the fact that Cassel isn't a guy who's going to take an average receiver and get more out of him.

If Moeaki had the skills of a Vernon Davis or Tony Gonzalez we'd be a lot better off, but he doesn't. He's a good tight end but I don't think he'll ever make a Pro Bowl.

ok this again? what skills did TG have as a rookie that were far and away better than what moeaki has shown?

RippedmyFlesh
01-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Jones, maddening drops aside, has been high on my target list as well.

He has size and great downfield speed that could help relax coverage on Bowe.

On the other hand, every single time a ball was dropped downfield by a Packers WR, I pretty much assumed it was James Jones that dropped it. 7 times out of 10, I was accurate. The guy has very spotty hands.

I think there's a pretty good chance we would come to hate him if he played for us.

The last thing we need is suspect hands. I would prefer a marvin harrison type good route runner sure hands minus the whole shooting people aspect.

The Franchise
01-26-2011, 05:47 PM
Jones, maddening drops aside, has been high on my target list as well.

He has size and great downfield speed that could help relax coverage on Bowe.

On the other hand, every single time a ball was dropped downfield by a Packers WR, I pretty much assumed it was James Jones that dropped it. 7 times out of 10, I was accurate. The guy has very spotty hands.

I think there's a pretty good chance we would come to hate him if he played for us.

Maybe Haley can help him out with that.

Hammock Parties
01-26-2011, 05:50 PM
.
Houston interests me, but i really have no idea what his upside is...and if he can't cover, then what stops teams from Raven-ing us?

Most 3-4 OLBs are terrible in coverage.

Our defense isn't going to live and die by the coverage abilities of the outside backers.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-26-2011, 10:05 PM
Ryan Kerrigan has much, much more upside than Vrabel.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-26-2011, 11:49 PM
QB, NT, WR and LB.

Hammer, meet nail.

Sweet Daddy Hate
01-26-2011, 11:51 PM
He's shown enough as a rookie to make me not too worried about the position. He's not a Sharpe or Gonzalez as you state, but he's more than adequate.

A #2 WR needs to be found. It's a very nice wide receiver draft and I'll be disappointed if they don't come away with someone to fill that spot.

I saw your thread about Green, but I don't think it's prudent to be trading up for a guy and potentially losing picks in the process. I'm still really disappointed in the Moeaki pick last year in that we lost a fifth rounder to move up eight spots to take him when Hernandez and Pitta and Moeaki were still on the board. We would have got a quality tight end in the fourth regardless. Too many holes to justify losing draft picks.

They also need better pass protection so Cassel can get the time to get the ball downfield.

Yes, let's luxury-out on O-line so Cassel can shit his pants an extra 2 yards down the field, totaling 12 yards overall.

DaneMcCloud
01-27-2011, 12:06 AM
It will takes years of good drafts by Pioli to live down that debacle of a first draft he had as GM of the Chiefs. I mean really, Mr. Freakin' Irrelevant is the best player from that Chiefs draft class. WTF!

And he should have taken Arian Foster, which would have allowed Connor Barth to stay in KC, instead of moving on to Tampa.

Could anyone here imagine Foster and Charles?

Rudy tossed tigger's salad
01-27-2011, 01:43 AM
And he should have taken Arian Foster, which would have allowed Connor Barth to stay in KC, instead of moving on to Tampa.

Could anyone here imagine Foster and Charles?

WTF? That's not an honest criticism

Saccopoo
01-27-2011, 01:52 AM
Ryan Kerrigan has much, much more upside than Vrabel.

Senior Bowl reports make it seem like Kerrigan is getting his ass handed to him by the offensive tackles.

Urc Burry
01-27-2011, 09:12 AM
Wow good call on Von Miller going 3...Shefter said after the senior bowl he will be a top 5 pick

DJ's left nut
01-27-2011, 10:33 AM
The last thing we need is suspect hands. I would prefer a marvin harrison type good route runner sure hands minus the whole shooting people aspect.

Well no shit.

If I could get Marvin Harrison instead of James Jones, that would be pretty ideal, but as best I can tell, those guys don't hit the FA market that often.

Breaston's dinged up and with lingering knee issues, he's not a great risk. Ditto Steve Smith. Vincent Jackson's staying in SD and I bet Sidney Rice stays in Minn.

When you look at the available options, James Jones is likely the best fit we have. However, let me be clear - if by some chance Andre Johnson hits the FA market, rest assured that I would rather have him than James Jones.

DJ's left nut
01-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Maybe Haley can help him out with that.

Perhaps. It does appear Bowe's hands have improved somewhat.

I've always been wary of the ability to improve an WRs hands though. There's not a ton of technique to learn by the time you get to that level. Make the window, catch the tip, keep your hands away from your body if possible and try to catch a floater at its highest point...blah blah blah.

If you've played WR for more than a year at the HS level, you've pretty much learned all the technique there is to learn. At that point it's a matter of focus, repitition and talent. I suppose Haley could ride his ass and have him catching 200 balls from the JUGS machine everyday, but the possibility exists that the talent's just not there to bring out.

It's not as though GB doesn't do a pretty good job coaching their WRs up. If Jones has the drops on a team that has 2 of the best coached WRs in the game on the squad (Jennings and Driver), perhaps it's not a coaching issue with him.

He's still my top WR target, but I think we'd need to be prepared for the possibility that he's about maxed out.

Chiefnj2
01-27-2011, 10:39 AM
Perhaps. It does appear Bowe's hands have improved somewhat.

I've always been wary of the ability to improve an WRs hands though. There's not a ton of technique to learn by the time you get to that level. Make the window, catch the tip, keep your hands away from your body if possible and try to catch a floater at its highest point...blah blah blah.



I think it's a matter of concentration. There are good youtube videos up of Hankerson working with Duper (? - old Miami receiver) over the summer. He does a bunch of drills with him to improve his concentration.

DJ's left nut
01-27-2011, 10:46 AM
I think it's a matter of concentration. There are good youtube videos up of Hankerson working with Duper (? - old Miami receiver) over the summer. He does a bunch of drills with him to improve his concentration.

And we saw lots of tape of Tebow's new throwing mechanics in drills as well. Come game-time, he went back to that looping, slinging thing of his.

I think the gains are ultimately marginal for that kind of drill. At game speed, you tend to go back to the habits you built up over the last decade+.

And again, that's not to say its impossible, but if it were that easy you wouldn't have so many guys that have the drops throughout their careers. For every player it actually clicks for, there are several it won't.

Considering the coaching the WRs get in GB, I'm inclined to believe that Jones will fall into that latter category. He's still a dangerous deep threat and a valuable weapon, but he'll be frustrating at times as well.

BTAU
01-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Considering the coaching the WRs get in GB, I'm inclined to believe that Jones will fall into that latter category. He's still a dangerous deep threat and a valuable weapon, but he'll be frustrating at times as well.

He just needs to spend some time in a Johnny on the Spot.;)