What's the most you've ever paid for a car?

[DaFace]

My car is starting to look like it's on its last legs, so I'm looking at my options.

Chances are, I'll end up joining the masses here in the hills and get a Subaru Outback, but damn...that's a big jump up in price from cars I've bought in the past. Granted, this will be my first "not a poor college student" car purchase.

So just curious how much people usually spend on cars. Poll on the way.


EDIT: The word "car" in this sense is meant to encompass any personal-use vehicle.

[The Franchise]

The wife and I just spent $28,000 on our Toyota Sienna.

[siberian khatru]

I haven't bought a new car since 2002, and that was a Toyota Sienna minivan (that we still own) that we paid something like $30K for.

I drive a 99 Honda Civic that I bought used in 03 for a lot less than $30K.

BUT ... both are paid off, and I plan to drive them until they collapse, because I LOVE not having car payments.

[Dayze]

just paid off my car in November! woo hoo!
thank god.

but, the most I've spent is right about $19k.

once my car finally dies, I'll probably buy one cash for like $5k or less. I'm liking this no car payment stuff.

[R8RFAN]

My car is starting to look like it's on its last legs, so I'm looking at my options.

Chances are, I'll end up joining the masses here in the hills and get a Subaru Outback, but damn...that's a big jump up in price from cars I've bought in the past. Granted, this will be my first "not a poor college student" car purchase.

So just curious how much people usually spend on cars. Poll on the way.

You have cash to buy a car?

[R8RFAN]

The wife and I just spent $28,000 on our Toyota Sienna.

no you probably spent about 40k on a vehicle that is depreciating 100 bucks a week for the first 4 years you own it....

I bet a 1000+ dollar per month vehicle rides extra special..

[The Franchise]

no you probably spent about 40k on a vehicle that is depreciating 100 bucks a week for the first 4 years you own it....

I bet a 1000+ dollar per month vehicle rides extra special..

Your point being?

[Over-Head]

This F-150 i`m driving would be the highest Listed at $41, picked it up 1 year off lease for $27,500. Sweet deal, salesman was driving it himself as part of his salary, only had 14,500KM on the clock when I picked it up.

Other than that never spent more than $1500 on one.
I only ever had 3 cars, 76`toyota, followed by a 79`Nova and a 83 Sunbird prior to buying a Freightliner and Great Dane reefer that set me back $171,000.

[R8RFAN]

Your point being?

Nothing if you like spending 1000 per month on a vehicle I guess :spock:

[JD10367]

I've only had four new cars (a '91 compact, a '99 American sedan, an '03 Asian sedan, and an '09 European compact). Never paid more than $17k with tax and tip.

[Rain Man]

The most I've paid was about $22K for the apricot BMW in about 2002. It was two years old at the time, and the new car sticker was still in the glove box somewhere in the $40K range (can't remember if it was low 40s or high 40s). I like buying two year old cars.

[loochy]

I have a Jag, a Bentley, and an Aston Martin. /Dane McCloud

[The Franchise]

Nothing if you like spending 1000 per month on a vehicle I guess :spock:

A $1000? My car payment is $400.

[DaFace]

A $1000? My car payment is $400.

R8ers lecture on loans incoming!

[FAX]

ROFL

This thread reminds me just how stupid I once was. Before I got smart and all.

FAX

[The Franchise]

R8ers lecture on loans incoming!

Can't wait.

[loochy]

Nothing if you like spending 1000 per month on a vehicle I guess :spock:

You can put money down you know...

[MOhillbilly]

nineteen thousand five hundred cash.

[BucEyedPea]

I bought my Lamborghini used.

[WV]

A $1000? My car payment is $400.

That's what I was thinking...this guys credit must suck ass!

We paid about 38K for our Odyssey and our payment isn't close to $1000.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Can't wait.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/D7KSkZxt_zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Frazod]

$25,000 on the Mustang. In hindsight it was one of the dumber things I've done in my life, but I sure did have fun with it for a couple of years. My current car, an '06 Impala which I bought a year used, will be paid off in March of next year. It's still got under 50K miles and is in great shape, minus a touch of rust that's developing on the trunk lid.

I plan on driving it until the fucking wheels fall off.

[jd1020]

I've never even thought about spending more then 10k on a vehicle. My <10k vehicles get me from point A to point B just as well as the fashion statements.

[eazyb81]

I just bought my first really nice car, a Mercedes C350.

I wish it was a female so I could make sweet love to it. It is gorgeous.

Nice step up from my Ford Escape.

I'm sure all the Ramsey-heads on here will menstruate all over this thread about how cars are terrible investments, blah blah blah, but some people simply appreciate driving a nice care more than others. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to allocating your discretionary income.

[Jewish Rabbi]

I'm sure all the Ramsey-heads on here will menstruate all over this thread about how cars are terrible investments, blah blah blah, but some people simply appreciate driving a nice care more than others. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to allocating your discretionary income.

This. My only regret on buying my car (on a loan) is that I didn't put down a bigger down payment.

[DaFace]

I've never even thought about spending more then 10k on a vehicle. My <10k vehicles get me from point A to point B just as well as the fashion statements.

That's really my dilemma. I'm the same way - I don't care what it is as long as it gets me from point A to point B.

However, I'm finding that, when point B is around 10,000 feet through a snowstorm, not all cars are created equal.

[luv]

I just bought my first really nice car, a Mercedes C350.

I wish it was a female so I could make sweet love to it. It is gorgeous.

Nice step up from my Ford Escape.

I'm sure all the Ramsey-heads on here will menstruate all over this thread about how cars are terrible investments, blah blah blah, but some people simply appreciate driving a nice care more than others. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to allocating your discretionary income.

I went from a 2000 Ford Contour to a 2002 Lexus IS300. It cost me $16,800 minus trade in.

[Rain Man]

Wow. I just realized that I've only purchased two cars for myself in the 25 years since I graduated college. Four total, but two were the wife's cars.

[R8RFAN]

ROFL

This thread reminds me just how stupid I once was. Before I got smart and all.

FAX


:thumb:ROFL

[HoneyBadger]

2010 BMW M3. Worth my monthly payment :)

[R8RFAN]

That's what I was thinking...this guys credit must suck ass!

We paid about 38K for our Odyssey and our payment isn't close to $1000.
It's not bad, I just don't have any.
I have a credit score of 0 I buy everything cash.
You have to Owe to have a credit score

[luv]

It's not bad, I just don't have any.
I have a credit score of 0 I buy everything cash.
You have to Owe to have a credit score

You don't own a home?

You don't owe anything if you get a credit card and pay off the balance each month, as long as you don't get something with an APR.

Anyway, I'm the last person who should be talking about credit.

[Saulbadguy]

You have cash to buy a car?

Jesus christ, shut the fuck up already.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Jesus christ, shut the fuck up already.

I wish this was Facebook so I could "Like" this comment.

[Saulbadguy]

Nothing if you like spending 1000 per month on a vehicle I guess :spock:

Who the fuck cares if he spends $1000 per week on hookers and blow as long as he has the means to do it?

Keep on enjoying your beans and rice for dinner every night while we enjoy life, Ramsey-ite.

[HoneyBadger]

Jesus christ, shut the fuck up already.

Amen.

[R8RFAN]

You don't own a home?

You don't owe anything if you get a credit card and pay off the balance each month, as long as you don't get something with an APR.

Anyway, I'm the last person who should be talking about credit.

Paid off a 30 year Mortgage in a little over 5 years...
It's not that I can't get any credit, I just don't buy things with money I do not have....

I get anything I want, but only after I have the cash to get it.... If I can't do it that way, the item is not for me....


I don't fault anyone for a mortgage, thats a hard thing to save up for cash money ... It should not have a payment over 25% of their take home income though.

[R8RFAN]

Who the **** cares if he spends $1000 per week on hookers and blow as long as he has the means to do it?

Keep on enjoying your beans and rice for dinner every night while we enjoy life, Ramsey-ite.

I eat like a king son, I probably have enough money to buy everything you are making payments on in my savings account.

[DaFace]

Jesus christ, shut the fuck up already.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif

[Saulbadguy]

I eat like a king son, I probably have enough money to buy everything you are making payments on in my savings account.

Yet you still root for the Raiders. Obviously Dave Ramsey's teachings don't translate well in other facets of life.

[R8RFAN]

I love how you broke ass people try to justify buying shit you know you can't afford, then next week you will be here with a prayer thread or trying to collect money for someone because you are broke you spent all your money on shit you could not afford...

[eazyb81]

It's not bad, I just don't have any.
I have a credit score of 0 I buy everything cash.
You have to Owe to have a credit score

This is incredibly stupid.

You sound like a money crackhead.

[ChiTown]

I eat like a king son, I probably have enough money to buy everything you are making payments on in my savings account.

Ooooh, can I play?

[R8RFAN]

Yet you still root for the Raiders. Obviously Dave Ramsey's teachings don't translate well in other facets of life.

I don't live by Dave Ramseys teaching, he has some good points, and some I don't agree with, I never bought his book or anything....

I like Clark Howard too

[The Franchise]

I eat like a king son, I probably have enough money to buy everything you are making payments on in my savings account.

And I care because?

Dude....you shouldn't give two shits about what I and my wife do with our money.

You have a wife and kids?

[R8RFAN]

Ooooh, can I play?

sure............

[jd1020]

That's really my dilemma. I'm the same way - I don't care what it is as long as it gets me from point A to point B.

However, I'm finding that, when point B is around 10,000 feet through a snowstorm, not all cars are created equal.

Ofcourse I would look at cars that fit the climate but I live in Illinois where massive snow storms arent an every year thing. I look at it like this... How much of my daily life am I spending in my vehicle? About 30-45 mins depending on traffic (not including trips to the store, friends, etc...). In the summer I'm riding my motorcycle/bikes. I just dont see much point in spending the amounts of cash some people feel they need to.

[Saulbadguy]

I love how you broke ass people try to justify buying shit you know you can't afford, then next week you will be here with a prayer thread or trying to collect money for someone because you are broke you spent all your money on shit you could not afford...

Nice generalization there, fucktard.

[MOhillbilly]

i want a personal transporter disc.

[Abba-Dabba]

I always like to stick around the 10K range myself. I've never had any problem finding a car a couple years old and fairly low miles for that price. Just bought the wife a 2005 Bonneville that had been garaged it's whole life by a old lady that only put 40K miles on it for 9.5K. All power options, leather, Northstar v-8

[R8RFAN]

And I care because?

Dude....you shouldn't give two shits about what I and my wife do with our money.

You have a wife and kids?

That guy who is @ss raping you on that vehicle didn't care about you either...

PS it's not your money, it's the banks...

There is a difference

[R8RFAN]

Nice generalization there, ****tard.

You know it's true though

[The Franchise]

That guy who is @ss raping you on that vehicle didn't care about you either...

PS it's not your money, it's the banks...

There is a difference

You don't have to try and get around the word censors you fucking douchebag.

Ass.


You never answered the question. Wife and kids?

[WV]

I love how you broke ass people try to justify buying shit you know you can't afford, then next week you will be here with a prayer thread or trying to collect money for someone because you are broke you spent all your money on shit you could not afford...

http://www.dweebist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fame.png

[R8RFAN]

You don't have to try and get around the word censors you ****ing douchebag.

Ass.


You never answered the question. Wife and kids?

Absolutely, wife has been a stay home mom since 04 and a daughter....


Now show your class....

[luv]

You know it's true though

Wouldn't this lecture be better for people who really need it? Say, on a Raiders BB?

[The Franchise]

Absolutely, wife has been a stay home mom since 04 and a daughter....


Now show your class....

Well congrats because you don't have to spend an outrageous amount of money on daycare.

[Saulbadguy]

You know it's true though

It's not. The overwhelming majority of prayer threads started here are for dying or dead family members, friends. Very rarely does anyone start a "i'm broke" thread.

[R8RFAN]

I know it pisses you off to be broke and I know you think just because you drag your miserable ass out of bed everyday you deserve a 50k truck even though you only make 30k per yr...

I know you are bitter also that you probably paid 100k for that job that pays 30k per year....

You can end the cycle of stupid though if you use your brain.

[luv]

Well congrats because you don't have to spend an outrageous amount of money on daycare.

You shouldn't have kids if you can't pay cash for them.

[Saulbadguy]

Wouldn't this lecture be better for people who really need it? Say, on a Raiders BB?

Car payments aren't usually accepted or processed on stolen vehicles.

[The Franchise]

You shouldn't have kids if you can't pay cash for them.

I paid cash to have my kids.

[Saulbadguy]

I know it pisses you off to be broke and I know you think just because you drag your miserable ass out of bed everyday you deserve a 50k truck even though you only make 30k per yr...

I know you are bitter also that you probably paid 100k for that job that pays 30k per year....

You can end the cycle of stupid though if you use your brain.

:spock: Does not compute.

[R8RFAN]

It's not. The overwhelming majority of prayer threads started here are for dying or dead family members, friends. Very rarely does anyone start a "i'm broke" thread.

Dude of course they are, I will take that back here... lets just place it in real life and not a silly message board....

How many broke ass people do you know who shouldn't be?

[R8RFAN]

:spock: Does not compute.

Not for you maybe, but it hits home to many many people

[ChiTown]

sure............

What is your point about credit?

[R8RFAN]

Car payments aren't usually accepted or processed on stolen vehicles.

Thats right, we grind off the serial numbers

[The Franchise]

:spock: Does not compute.

I think he's saying that people are dumb for going to college and having $100k in student loans....just to have a $30k a year job.

[DaFace]

Well, at least I'm ensured of getting a 100-post thread now that the typical R8ers hijack of any thread resembling a financial discussion has occurred.

[cdcox]

Car history of my life:

1980 purchased a 1970 Monte Carlo for $1200. Drove it until 1983 when I wrecked it and sold it for peanuts.

1983 got married. A 197? Lincoln Bobcat wagon with simulated woodgrain was part of the deal. We drove it until 1985 or so then gave it to a friend. He drove it for a few more years, sold it for $400 and gave me half.

1984 bought a new Ford Escort. Drove it till the wheels fell off and sold it for $300 in 1994 or so. This was mostly the wife's car, but I drove it toward the end.

1985 bought a 1972 Cutlass. Sold it in 1987 for about what I paid for it (somewhere around a grand).

1991 bought a new Ford Escort for around $11K. Drove it until the wheels fell off. Sold it in 2005 or so for $350. It sat in the drive way the last year we had it.

1994 bought a new Ford F-150 for about $10K. Standard transmission, straight 6, no AC, no carpet, no radio. Yellow with ruby red interior. Still have it and drive it every day. Will have it for another good long time.

2003 bought a new Nissan Altima for nearly $20K. Still have it. Wife's car. Has about 130K miles. It's been in about 4 fender benders so it rattles a bit more than it should. Will probably have it another 5 years or so.

[R8RFAN]

What is your point about credit?

It's only for rich people, it keeps broke people broke for life , just like lottery's are for poor people to be kept poor.

[luv]

What is your point about credit?

You shouldn't have any.

[R8RFAN]

Well, at least I'm ensured of getting a 100-post thread now that the typical R8ers hijack of any thread resembling a financial discussion has occurred.

Dude you hijacked it when you said a subaru was a car ROFL

[MOhillbilly]

I think he's saying that people are dumb for going to college and having $100k in student loans....just to have a $30k a year job.

him no use his brain good and easy like he thought he said it would.

[R8RFAN]

You shouldn't have any.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[loochy]

I know it pisses you off to be broke and I know you think just because you drag your miserable ass out of bed everyday you deserve a 50k truck even though you only make 30k per yr...

I know you are bitter also that you probably paid 100k for that job that pays 30k per year....

You can end the cycle of stupid though if you use your brain.

So wait, you thing we pay people to let us work for them? WTF man?

I think he's saying that people are dumb for going to college and having $100k in student loans....just to have a $30k a year job.


Ooooooohhhh.

Scholarships and being smart FTW!

[luv]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, how did you purchase your home without credit again?

[Rain Man]

Having a child is the worst financial decision a person can make. I bet childbirth rates are inversely proportional to people's ability to use Microsoft Excel.

[ChiTown]

It's only for rich people, it keeps broke people broke for life , just like lottery's are for poor people to be kept poor.

so, a 5 yr car loan on, say, for $20K will keep you broke for life? What's the thinking behind that?

[The Franchise]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you do for a job?

[The Franchise]

It's only for rich people, it keeps broke people broke for life , just like lottery's are for poor people to be kept poor.

That's why millionaires are always winning the lottery.

[loochy]

It's only for rich people, it keeps broke people broke for life , just like lottery's are for poor people to be kept poor.

...just like using an apostrophe for a plural is for complete idiots.

[Jewish Rabbi]

That's why millionaires are always winning the lottery.

Meh, I see his points, but he does a pretty bad job explaining them. You see broke asses throwing down hundreds of dollars a night at the casino, where I'll only take ~$100 when I could actually afford more.

And he isn't saying to not have a credit card, he's saying pay it off in full every month... He doesn't consider that to be credit, even tho it gives you a high credit score.

[R8RFAN]

So, how did you purchase your home without credit again?

I said earlier in the thread , I will go into detail

It's ok to go in debt for a home as long as that homes payment is 25% or less of the family TAKE HOME PAY

I lived in a TRAILER for 10 years longer than I had to in order to save enough money to put 25% down on my house.

I mortgaged my house for 30 years, paid it off in 5.5 years because I stayed away from all other credit...

now I can put my hands on 6 digits of cash if I need it in 30 minutes without borrowing a dime as a result

[ChiTown]

now I can put my hands on 6 digits of cash if I need it in 30 minutes without borrowing a dime as a result

$1000.00 whole dollars? Wow! You are good!

[loochy]

I said earlier in the thread , I will go into detail

It's ok to go in debt for a home as long as that homes payment is 25% or less of the family TAKE HOME PAY

I lived in a TRAILER for 10 years longer than I had to in order to save enough money to put 25% down on my house.

I mortgaged my house for 30 years, paid it off in 5.5 years because I stayed away from all other credit...

now I can put my hands on 6 digits of cash if I need it in 30 minutes without borrowing a dime as a result

Cool. Do you want a cookie?

[Saulbadguy]

I think he's saying that people are dumb for going to college and having $100k in student loans....just to have a $30k a year job.

Gotcha. Yeah, having $100,000 in student loans is probably a bad idea if you are just going to make $30k a year.

Of course I don't know of anyone in that ridiculous hypothetical situation. Not to say they don't exist (I'm sure they do), but it's not a trend.

[R8RFAN]

Meh, I see his points, but he does a pretty bad job explaining them. You see broke asses throwing down hundreds of dollars a night at the casino, where I'll only take ~$100 when I could actually afford more.

And he isn't saying to not have a credit card, he's saying pay it off in full every month... He doesn't consider that to be credit, even tho it gives you a high credit score.

If you need to build a credit score to help with a rate on a house and you pay that credit card off in full every month, there is nothing in the world wrong with it...

I have no credit score or need no credit because I already have my house...

If I ever decided to finance another car (don't think I ever will) I can use a big cash down payment..
No credit is not the same as bad credit, you can get your debt to credit ratio looked at and get about anything you could want.

If life ever gets tough, I could always re morgtage my house (God Forbid)

[R8RFAN]

Gotcha. Yeah, having $100,000 in student loans is probably a bad idea if you are just going to make $30k a year.

Of course I don't know of anyone in that ridiculous hypothetical situation. Not to say they don't exist (I'm sure they do), but it's not a trend.

It's not as uncommon as you think , it's sad really, I hate to see kids start life up to their asses in debt...

High debt is the number one cause of marriage breakups too

[R8RFAN]

$1000.00 whole dollars? Wow! You are good!

ROFLROFL

[R8RFAN]

That's why millionaires are always winning the lottery.

When you are that rich you can do whatever you want....
50k to a millionaire is like 20 bucks to most of us

[Saulbadguy]

It's not as uncommon as you think , it's sad really, I hate to see kids start life up to their asses in debt...

High debt is the number one cause of marriage breakups too

Yeah, that's definitely not true.

[R8RFAN]

Just to drive DAFACE crazy he is my thoughts on car prices

30k for car payment, 5-600 per month...
Car depreciates 100 per week for the first 4 years you own it thats 400 per month, car value now is 900-1000 per month

Add another 100 or so for insurance on that new ride and you are riding in a cool 1000-1100 dollar per month ride....

Invest that a month in a good mutual fund and retire a millionaire

[jd1020]

When you are that rich you can do whatever you want....
50k to a millionaire is like 20 bucks to most of us

50k to a millionaire is 50k to us... Ask James Harrison.

[R8RFAN]

Yeah, that's definitely not true.

Prove me wrong

Financial problems break up more marriages than infidelity

[DaFace]

Just to drive DAFACE crazy he is my thoughts on car prices

30k for car payment, 5-600 per month...
Car depreciates 100 per week for the first 4 years you own it thats 400 per month, car value now is 900-1000 per month

Add another 100 or so for insurance on that new ride and you are riding in a cool 1000-1100 dollar per month ride....

Invest that a month in a good mutual fund and retire a millionaire

Na, I've pretty much chalked you up as a troll who doesn't know how to maximize his wealth. You'd have to work pretty hard to drive me crazy.

[DaneMcCloud]

I've been leasing vehicles since 2003.

After having crunched the numbers, I will never purchase a car that costs more than $40k, ever again. I'd rather have a 36-42 month lease with a payment in the $425-525 range, turn in the car before all of the maintenance costs kick in (tune-ups, tires, brakes, etc.) and instead, use that cash for another down on a lease.

In my case, a car isn't an investment, it's an expense.

[stevieray]

23k

[DaneMcCloud]

When you are that rich you can do whatever you want....
50k to a millionaire is like 20 bucks to most of us

So you only earn $400 dollars per year?

Figures, since you're a Raiders fan.

[Rain Man]

Na, I've pretty much chalked you up as a troll who doesn't know how to maximize his wealth. You'd have to work pretty hard to drive me crazy.


Drive him crazy. Heh-heh.

If you're going to drive R8ers crazy, all you need to do is use a $40,000 car for the trip.

[R8RFAN]

Na, I've pretty much chalked you up as a troll who doesn't know how to maximize his wealth. You'd have to work pretty hard to drive me crazy.

I am a troll because I want to see you and your family prosper and make sound financial decisions...

You are a kid, and I know you think you know everything but one day you will think of what I have been trying to tell you and wish you wouldn't have been so hard headed.

Regardless, I hope you do well

[Saulbadguy]

23k

I love answers like this amidst a thread that has spiraled out of control. Clearly answers the OP's question and just flat out ignores the carnage around him.

[R8RFAN]

Drive him crazy. Heh-heh.

If you're going to drive R8ers crazy, all you need to do is use a $40,000 car for the trip.

You are right:D

[Saulbadguy]

I am a troll because I want to see you and your family prosper and make sound financial decisions...

You are a kid, and I know you think you know everything but one day you will think of what I have been trying to tell you and wish you wouldn't have been so hard headed.

Regardless, I hope you do well

Bullshit.

[R8RFAN]

Bullshit.

Natural reaction and not uncommon, people always think the people that are actually trying to help them are trying to hurt them....

The car salesman is the good guy and SAVING you on the car but the guy trying to tell you you are getting ready to get ripped off is just trying to hold you down from getting what you deserve.

[DaFace]

I am a troll because I want to see you and your family prosper and make sound financial decisions...

You are a kid, and I know you think you know everything but one day you will think of what I have been trying to tell you and wish you wouldn't have been so hard headed.

Regardless, I hope you do well

In case you don't realize it, you have an incredibly bad habit of making assumptions about people that aren't true. That, and making sweeping generalizations about people that aren't true.

[R8RFAN]

In case you don't realize it, you have an incredibly bad habit of making assumptions about people that aren't true. That, and making sweeping generalizations about people that aren't true.

Thats exactly what you are doing now...

[Saulbadguy]

Natural reaction and not uncommon, people always think the people that are actually trying to help them are trying to hurt them....

The car salesman is the good guy and SAVING you on the car but the guy trying to tell you you are getting ready to get ripped off is just trying to hold you down from getting what you deserve.

While your information and opinions aren't all that bad, they aren't of the "just trying to help" nature.

[Saulbadguy]

Thats exactly what you are doing now...

He is stating his opinion of you, as are a few others in this thread.

You have stated your opinion about "kids" or "those people" or "everyone here" etc etc.

[ChiTown]

Thats exactly what you are doing now...

Point is, you know a lot less than you think you do.

And with that comment, I bid you all adieu. I have snow that needs my attention, unfortunately, lot's of attention.:mad:

[Rain Man]

Natural reaction and not uncommon, people always think the people that are actually trying to help them are trying to hurt them....

The car salesman is the good guy and SAVING you on the car but the guy trying to tell you you are getting ready to get ripped off is just trying to hold you down from getting what you deserve.

How come you don't see this when I try to convince you to become a Chiefs fan?

[Jewish Rabbi]

Just to drive DAFACE crazy he is my thoughts on car prices

30k for car payment, 5-600 per month...
Car depreciates 100 per week for the first 4 years you own it thats 400 per month, car value now is 900-1000 per month

Add another 100 or so for insurance on that new ride and you are riding in a cool 1000-1100 dollar per month ride....

Invest that a month in a good mutual fund and retire a millionaire

So you're saying that after 4 years, you can only get $10,000 out of a $30,000 car? Completely untrue if the car is taken care of and not driven a ton of miles.

[CrazyPhuD]

I've been leasing vehicles since 2003.

After having crunched the numbers, I will never purchase a car that costs more than $40k, ever again. I'd rather have a 36-42 month lease with a payment in the $425-525 range, turn in the car before all of the maintenance costs kick in (tune-ups, tires, brakes, etc.) and instead, use that cash for another down on a lease.

In my case, a car isn't an investment, it's an expense.

While I am no fan of leases, they do have their place especially in states that F you in taxes(and charge sales tax on used vehicles). Why? With leases you only pay sales tax on the part of the car you use. If you were to buy the car and then sell it at the end of the lease period then you'd get the same money back from the car but have to pay full sales tax(which is F'd up, you should get a refund for the difference or no sales tax charged on used).

Personally I like 1-2 year old used cars because they have better 'value', still new enough to be reliable but eaten the 1-2 year depreciation cliff. But then again cars are a hobby for me since I track them so you feel less bad if you stuff a used car versus a brand new one.

[R8RFAN]

While your information and opinions aren't all that bad, they aren't of the "just trying to help" nature.

I go a little overboard maybe sometimes, I just get tired of seeing the same young people fall for the same bullshit people have been for years and going bankrupt.

For every person here up to their ass in debt flipping me off there are 5 more reading this thread and not supporting what I say only because I am an outcast on this forum.

Thats all cool though, I am a big boy and I can take it and will never cave in on things that I believe in to suit others.

I have found success, I see it in my great family life, job, and bank account... no matter what anyone says to me here will change that...

[R8RFAN]

So you're saying that after 4 years, you can only get $10,000 out of a $30,000 car? Completely untrue if the car is taken care of and not driven a ton of miles.

So then whats the point of buying a 30k car if you are not gonna drive it?


Go to kbb.com and look up some 4 year car prices, they will piss you off if you are a seller

[R8RFAN]

How come you don't see this when I try to convince you to become a Chiefs fan?

You never tried.... gimme that sales pitch again and I may consider it.

[JD10367]

It's not bad, I just don't have any.
I have a credit score of 0 I buy everything cash.
You have to Owe to have a credit score

I can understand your position on money. This generation, as well as the one before it (mine), has grown up thinking being in debt is simply the normal way of things. In "the old days", our parents would save up money and buy things. Thus, they only bought things they really needed or wanted, not on impulse. People carrying credit-card debt, or mortagages or car payments they can't afford, are simply digging themselves holes they can't get out of.

I think your position is getting buried a bit because you're a Raiders fan, and kind of an asshole, so people are focusing more on that than on your valid points. :D

But I do think you're making one mistake, and it's illustrated above. Unless you have a million bucks in the bank, it's a good idea to have a good credit rating. You never know when you might need it.

When I was young and stupid, I ran up the credit card bills like everyone else. I now only have two credit cards. I carry a zero balance on both of them. I use one for purchases and the other to charge gas for my car, and at month's end I pay both off in full. So you CAN have no debt and still have a good credit rating... as long as you resist the temptation to charge things you don't need or can't afford. If I were you, I'd get a credit card and use it for the things you'd use cash for (eating at restaurants, putting gas in your car, shopping, etc.,.) and then just pay it off at the end of the month.

[DaneMcCloud]

While I am no fan of leases, they do have their place especially in states that F you in taxes(and charge sales tax on used vehicles). Why? With leases you only pay sales tax on the part of the car you use. If you were to buy the car and then sell it at the end of the lease period then you'd get the same money back from the car but have to pay full sales tax(which is F'd up, you should get a refund for the difference or no sales tax charged on used).

Personally I like 1-2 year old used cars because they have better 'value', still new enough to be reliable but eaten the 1-2 year depreciation cliff. But then again cars are a hobby for me since I track them so you feel less bad if you stuff a used car versus a brand new one.

We tend to lease the $50k and up cars and the lease deals are quite favorable.

For example, in December, my wife leased a 2011 Lexus RX350 which was fully loaded with a sticker price in excess of $54k. It was $7500 down, $414 a month for 36 months (actually 37). We're business owners so we can write off the lease and mileage.

And since vehicles tend to get fairly beat up in Los Angeles traffic (not only dings and dents but constant starts and stops), I'd rather have $23k invested over three years with a yearly write-off, then lease another vehicle, as opposed to buying a vehicle and dealing with maintenance and other issues over the life of the vehicle.

I guess it all depends on the way you use your vehicle and but I can't figure out one good reason why to purchase a car with a sticker price in excess of $40k. At least living in this city.

[JD10367]

Personally I like 1-2 year old used cars because they have better 'value', still new enough to be reliable but eaten the 1-2 year depreciation cliff. But then again cars are a hobby for me since I track them so you feel less bad if you stuff a used car versus a brand new one.

This is a wise balance. I prefer new cars so I don't have to worry about things breaking down for a good 5 years or more. I dislike used cars, especially cars 5 years or older with 50,000 miles or more, because that's the point at which things start breaking and falling off and whatnot (timing belts, brakes, transmissions, whatever). But a car that's only a year or two is the "sweet spot" if you can get one that's depreciated quickly but is still a solid car and especially if you can get the warranty. A good example of this is Hyundai, which initially were pieces of shit but are now very solid cars and yet I'd bet their resale price is quite a bit lower than, say, Toyota (which now has cachet, even though THEY used to be considered piece of shit cars back in the 70s).

[CrazyPhuD]

I am a troll because I want to see you and your family prosper and make sound financial decisions...

You are a kid, and I know you think you know everything but one day you will think of what I have been trying to tell you and wish you wouldn't have been so hard headed.

Regardless, I hope you do well

dammit man I'm happy for you because financial freedom is a great thing and it removes a lot of stress from your life. But trolling will most definitely NOT make people make better financial decisions.

I'm a kid, but I've earned my money and if I want to live modestly I don't have to work a day again in my life. But you want to know what having money has taught me(and something my dad said a long time ago). The only thing that money can buy is freedom.

Sometimes it's more important to live life, even if you're not always making optimal decisions. Happiness is much more important and how people define happiness is very different for different people. Don't bash people's lives because you may not agree how they are living them. Give them opinion and advice and let them choose to follow or not as they will.

[R8RFAN]

I can understand your position on money. This generation, as well as the one before it (mine), has grown up thinking being in debt is simply the normal way of things. In "the old days", our parents would save up money and buy things. Thus, they only bought things they really needed or wanted, not on impulse. People carrying credit-card debt, or mortagages or car payments they can't afford, are simply digging themselves holes they can't get out of.

I think your position is getting buried a bit because you're a Raiders fan, and kind of an asshole, so people are focusing more on that than on your valid points. :D

But I do think you're making one mistake, and it's illustrated above. Unless you have a million bucks in the bank, it's a good idea to have a good credit rating. You never know when you might need it.

When I was young and stupid, I ran up the credit card bills like everyone else. I now only have two credit cards. I carry a zero balance on both of them. I use one for purchases and the other to charge gas for my car, and at month's end I pay both off in full. So you CAN have no debt and still have a good credit rating... as long as you resist the temptation to charge things you don't need or can't afford. If I were you, I'd get a credit card and use it for the things you'd use cash for (eating at restaurants, putting gas in your car, shopping, etc.,.) and then just pay it off at the end of the month.

Really I try to be an asshole just for comedic value. :D
I have good insurance and a few hundred though I could turn liquid pretty quickly...

I do have a credit card but I never use it, I use perkstreet exclusively now for everything I can use it for to buy things and pay bills.

I actuall get a sick feeling on my stomach when I think about buying stuff on credit..

I just got rid of all my verizon phones, too expensive, switched to straight talk, got rid of the house phone I never use, switched to magic jack, these two things alone save me about a grand a yr

I refuse to sign contracts for subsidized phones and I damn sure ain't paying 600 bucks for one.

I see your point though..

[Saul Good]

I go a little overboard maybe sometimes, I just get tired of seeing the same young people fall for the same bullshit people have been for years and going bankrupt.

For every person here up to their ass in debt flipping me off there are 5 more reading this thread and not supporting what I say only because I am an outcast on this forum.

Thats all cool though, I am a big boy and I can take it and will never cave in on things that I believe in to suit others.

I have found success, I see it in my great family life, job, and bank account... no matter what anyone says to me here will change that...

Put me down in the category of agreeing with you on the debt thing but thinking that you are coming off as being condescending in the process.

I haven't had any debt other than my house for about 3 years. It's amazing how quickly you can pile up enough cash to buy pretty much whatever you want when you don't have any payments to make.

In terms of what to pay for a car, I would give two rules of thumb.
1. Pay cash.
2. The combined value of all of your vehicles should be less than half of your annual salary.

[jbwm89]

bought a 2004 F250 Lariat with extended cab and bed and 40k for 18k. My payments are only $300 a month and I have a 36k bumper to bumper and that is on college student credit. Buying a new car is like throwing away 30% of the value, my truck already Blue books for around 2k more than what I paid for it including interest.

[R8RFAN]

dammit man I'm happy for you because financial freedom is a great thing and it removes a lot of stress from your life. But trolling will most definitely NOT make people make better financial decisions.

I'm a kid, but I've earned my money and if I want to live modestly I don't have to work a day again in my life. But you want to know what having money has taught me(and something my dad said a long time ago). The only thing that money can buy is freedom.

Sometimes it's more important to live life, even if you're not always making optimal decisions. Happiness is much more important and how people define happiness is very different for different people. Don't bash people's lives because you may not agree how they are living them. Give them opinion and advice and let them choose to follow or not as they will.

Point taken young man...

[R8RFAN]

Put me down in the category of agreeing with you on the debt thing but thinking that you are coming off as being condescending in the process.

I haven't had any debt other than my house for about 3 years. It's amazing how quickly you can pile up enough cash to buy pretty much whatever you want when you don't have any payments to make.

In terms of what to pay for a car, I would give two rules of thumb.
1. Pay cash.
2. The combined value of all of your vehicles should be less than half of your annual salary.

I know you got it going on.... :thumb:

[siberian khatru]

Sometimes it's more important to live life, even if you're not always making optimal decisions. Happiness is much more important and how people define happiness is very different for different people. Don't bash people's lives because you may not agree how they are living them. Give them opinion and advice and let them choose to follow or not as they will.

This.

All kidding aside, I would rather have manageable debt than live in a trailer for 10 or more years just so I could be debt-free.

There is indeed too much debt today, and young people especially ring up too much. There are many wise lessons to saving money and delaying gratification.

But I also don't believe in hoarding it. My brother-in-law was pretty much a skinflint all his life, lived in a trailer park and cut his elderly neighbor's grass for extra money that he sat on. Didn't marry until he was 42, when he finally found a woman with a young child. About six months after the wedding, he had a brain aneurysm and died.

All that he had saved all those years ... poof.

Enjoy life while you can. That doesn't mean live a Charlie Sheen lifestyle. But saving it up all up for the future doesn't always pay off.

[jd1020]

You assholes spreading knowledge about buying used over new need to stfu. I need people to buy new so I can buy used.

[Buck]

$5800

$6162.50 technically after my 6.25% loan.

[DaneMcCloud]

That doesn't mean live a Charlie Sheen lifestyle.

Charlie Sheen doesn't even life a Charlie Sheen lifestyle.

While it seems excessive from the reports, the dude earns a minimum of $60 million per calendar year.

Paying $30k for a porn chick to babysit is pennies to him.

[Jewish Rabbi]

$5800

$6162.50 technically after my 6.25% loan.

Lol, not how that works.

[CrazyPhuD]

We tend to lease the $50k and up cars and the lease deals are quite favorable.

For example, in December, my wife leased a 2011 Lexus RX350 which was fully loaded with a sticker price in excess of $54k. It was $7500 down, $414 a month for 36 months (actually 37). We're business owners so we can write off the lease and mileage.

And since vehicles tend to get fairly beat up in Los Angeles traffic (not only dings and dents but constant starts and stops), I'd rather have $23k invested over three years with a yearly write-off, then lease another vehicle, as opposed to buying a vehicle and dealing with maintenance and other issues over the life of the vehicle.

I guess it all depends on the way you use your vehicle and but I can't figure out one good reason why to purchase a car with a sticker price in excess of $40k. At least living in this city.

yup and if you can write off the vehicle as a business expense it becomes even more valid to lease since you can't do that nearly as easily buying.

Yea I forget about the wear an tear just from traffic in LA. Great city with quite a few outstanding places but not a place I could live because I can't deal with the traffic. I envy those that can because the weather is just outstanding but I'm too high strung to handle it!

I tend to buy my cars rather than leasing because I intend to own it(my current one I've had for 6 years) and I like to modify it. Some people think it's ok to modify a leased car and then return it to stock, but I don't. I think once you reach a certain price range for cars the only people who buy them are those that money just doesn't matter that much. At least looking at places like the Lambo boards that seems to be the rule there. Buy it new, dump it after a year or two with 2-4k miles and go on to the new hotness.

[Buck]

Why isn't R8ers banned by now? Nobody here likes him and he really doesn't bring anything to the table. Plus he is a horrible troll when it comes to the NFL.

[Buck]

Lol, not how that works.

What?

[R8RFAN]

Why isn't R8ers banned by now? Nobody here likes him and he really doesn't bring anything to the table. Plus he is a horrible troll when it comes to the NFL.

because obviously the mods here are not as big of a pu$$y as you are. ROFL

[Jewish Rabbi]

What?

You can't just multiply your original amount times 1.0625. You pay more than that... I'm assuming it was a three year loan, if you made just the minimum payments you would have paid $6375 for it.

[Buck]

You can't just multiply your original amount times 1.0625. You pay more than that... I'm assuming it was a three year loan, if you made just the minimum payments you would have paid $6375 for it.

Yeah it was 3 years, but I didn't make the minimum payments. Either way I still don't know how it works.

[Dunit35]

$12,800 2006 Nissan Altima (I rarely drive as the fiance drives it).

We started payments in November and are currently $900 ahead of schedule or four payments ahead.

[Buck]

because obviously the mods here are not as big of a pu$$y as you are. ROFL

Ok

[Jewish Rabbi]

Yeah it was 3 years, but I didn't make the minimum payments. Either way I still don't know how it works.

You have to compound the interest into the equation... I don't remember how to do it manually but there are loan amortization calculators online that tell you what you will pay over the course of your loan.

[DeezNutz]

Enjoy life while you can. That doesn't mean live a Charlie Sheen lifestyle. But saving it up all up for the future doesn't always pay off.

I was watching Two and Half Men, and he poured himself a scotch, Walker Black. And what was I drinking at the time????

Baller alert.

[DaFace]

I think your position is getting buried a bit because you're a Raiders fan, and kind of an asshole, so people are focusing more on that than on your valid points. :D

Na, my issue is that he insists on talking in absolutes. There are perfectly valid ways to use credit to your advantage, and he refuses to acknowledge that. I've had a credit card since I turned 18, and have NEVER paid a dime of interest on any of them. These days, I get really irritated if I have to pay cash for anything because I've grown accustomed to getting a 2% "discount" through my rewards programs.

Similarly, most financial advisors will advise against paying down a mortgage in a hurry since investments have historically outperformed the interest you'd end up paying on a mortgage.

As for car loans, I certainly don't disagree with the idea that buying with cash is ideal, but when you've got an option to take a promotional interest rate that's less than 3 percent? It doesn't make sense NOT to.

The irony of it all, in my opinion, is that R8ers advice is probably pretty sound for those who are hurting and trying to figure out how to manage their finances. However, for someone in his position who's fairly well off, you're leaving a ton of money on the table by refusing to use credit when appropriate.

(And that's the last actual response I'll make regarding R8ers in this thread.)

[CrazyPhuD]

Why isn't R8ers banned by now? Nobody here likes him and he really doesn't bring anything to the table. Plus he is a horrible troll when it comes to the NFL.

I kinda like the guy, dude comes off like an arrogant prick at time, but then again so do a lot of people. Still he provides useful value at times. Banning should only be reserved for those that provide no value or who's dickness far exceeds the value. While being a raiders fan in general may be grounds for banning on principle I don't think R8ers has earned it.

Hell sometimes you're around because Chargers fans are like your gay cousin. You may not really want him around but you feel bad throwing him out of the house for it.

[R8RFAN]

Na, my issue is that he insists on talking in absolutes. There are perfectly valid ways to use credit to your advantage, and he refuses to acknowledge that. I've had a credit card since I turned 18, and have NEVER paid a dime of interest on any of them. These days, I get really irritated if I have to pay cash for anything because I've grown accustomed to getting a 2% "discount" through my rewards programs.

Similarly, most financial advisors will advise against paying down a mortgage in a hurry since investments have historically outperformed the interest you'd end up paying on a mortgage.

As for car loans, I certainly don't disagree with the idea that buying with cash is ideal, but when you've got an option to take a promotional interest rate that's less than 3 percent? It doesn't make sense NOT to.

The irony of it all, in my opinion, is that R8ers advice is probably pretty sound for those who are hurting and trying to figure out how to manage their finances. However, for someone in his position who's fairly well off, you're leaving a ton of money on the table by refusing to use credit when appropriate.

(And that's the last actual response I'll make regarding R8ers in this thread.)

You will fall for anything Daface, salesmen love people like you.

[siberian khatru]

I was watching Two and Half Men, and he poured himself a scotch, Walker Black. And what was I drinking at the time????

Baller alert.

Let me know when you're snorting blow off the ass of a $30K hooker dressed like a cheerleader.

[Brock]

If you can get zero or close to it apr, I don't have a problem with financing a car. What I have a problem with on new cars is the immediate depreciation. It makes me sick.

[R8RFAN]

I kinda like the guy, dude comes off like an arrogant prick at time, but then again so do a lot of people. Still he provides useful value at times. Banning should only be reserved for those that provide no value or who's dickness far exceeds the value. While being a raiders fan in general may be grounds for banning on principle I don't think R8ers has earned it.

Hell sometimes you're around because Chargers fans are like your gay cousin. You may not really want him around but you feel bad throwing him out of the house for it.

Take out the Raiders part and that post describes about 90% of the people here.

[DeezNutz]

Let me know when you're snorting blow off the ass of a $30K hooker dressed like a cheerleader.

What the **** do you think I'm doing while posting in Royals threads?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

17K for a 2007 Highlander with 27K miles in July of 2009.

[siberian khatru]

What the **** do you think I'm doing while posting in Royals threads?

THAT explains it.

[CrazyPhuD]

You will fall for anything Daface, salesmen love people like you.

See now you're just trying to claim this is all pretend and you're just the master baiter aren't you?

[R8RFAN]

17K for a 2007 Highlander with 27K miles in July of 2009.

Thats not to bad right there if you are gonna do it.... beats the hell out of 40k +

If a man just has to have a newer car, get one atleast 2 yrs old.... save a bundle

[R8RFAN]

See now you're just trying to claim this is all pretend and you're just the master baiter aren't you?

No I seriously just don't like the way he always has an excuse to justify bad financial behavior while taking backhanded swipes at me..

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Thats not to bad right there if you are gonna do it.... beats the hell out of 40k +

If a man just has to have a newer car, get one atleast 2 yrs old.... save a bundle

I have bumper-to-bumper coverage up until 100K miles, FWIW.

[JD10367]

Na, my issue is that he insists on talking in absolutes. There are perfectly valid ways to use credit to your advantage, and he refuses to acknowledge that. I've had a credit card since I turned 18, and have NEVER paid a dime of interest on any of them. These days, I get really irritated if I have to pay cash for anything because I've grown accustomed to getting a 2% "discount" through my rewards programs.
Similarly, most financial advisors will advise against paying down a mortgage in a hurry since investments have historically outperformed the interest you'd end up paying on a mortgage.

As for car loans, I certainly don't disagree with the idea that buying with cash is ideal, but when you've got an option to take a promotional interest rate that's less than 3 percent? It doesn't make sense NOT to.

The irony of it all, in my opinion, is that R8ers advice is probably pretty sound for those who are hurting and trying to figure out how to manage their finances. However, for someone in his position who's fairly well off, you're leaving a ton of money on the table by refusing to use credit when appropriate.

(And that's the last actual response I'll make regarding R8ers in this thread.)

Yeah, that's another point I forgot to address in my response to him: not only can you build good credit, but you get free shit.

The card I currently use is a Royal Caribbean rewards Visa. For every $100 I get $1 in "Royal Points". I can trade those in for upgrades on cabins, or simply for onboard credit. Do I go out and charge $20,000 worth of shit just to get a $200 onboard credit? No. But if it's $20,000 I'm going to spend anyway... why not charge it and get the free onboard credit? :shrug:

[R8RFAN]

I have bumper-to-bumper coverage up until 100K miles, FWIW.

You are a helluva lot smarter than these people paying 40k plus for something to put in the driveway to piss the neighbors off...


If you told me you paid cash for it, I would hug your neck but I am probably pushing it now.

[R8RFAN]

Yeah, that's another point I forgot to address in my response to him: not only can you build good credit, but you get free shit.

The card I currently use is a Royal Caribbean rewards Visa. For every $100 I get $1 in "Royal Points". I can trade those in for upgrades on cabins, or simply for onboard credit. Do I go out and charge $20,000 worth of shit just to get a $200 onboard credit? No. But if it's $20,000 I'm going to spend anyway... why not charge it and get the free onboard credit? :shrug:

I use perkstreet, I get 2% on everything... 0 fees

[Donger]

Right around $40K, I think.

[The Franchise]

Thats not to bad right there if you are gonna do it.... beats the hell out of 40k +

If a man just has to have a newer car, get one atleast 2 yrs old.... save a bundle

So that's good but the fact that I bought a 2008 for $28,000 with 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty....isn't?

Ok.

[JD10367]

If you can get zero or close to it apr, I don't have a problem with financing a car. What I have a problem with on new cars is the immediate depreciation. It makes me sick.

Hence the reason it's wise to do one of two things:

1.) Buy a car that holds its value so you can sell it in a few years, or...
2.) Buy a car that you plan on keeping long enough to justify the cost (like, until it dies).

I've had 4 new cars. Bought one, kept it 10 years and put 100,000+ on it before it died (it was a little POS Hyundai Excel, I paid six grand brand new, LOL). Bought the next, still have it 11 years later with 133,000 on it. Bought the third in '03, has around 65,000 on it. Bought the fourth two years ago, has 20,000 on it and we don't plan on selling it.

[R8RFAN]

So that's good but the fact that I bought a 2008 for $28,000 with 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty....isn't?

Ok.

all depends....

How much do you make a yr?
How much did you put down?

If you make 100k a year and live with mom and want a 28 k car... go for it...

if you work at taco bell and live with mom, it's still not a good idea...

[eazyb81]

You are a helluva lot smarter than these people paying 40k plus for something to put in the driveway to piss the neighbors off...


If you told me you paid cash for it, I would hug your neck but I am probably pushing it now.

You sound like such a miserable person.

[Rain Man]

Enjoy life while you can. That doesn't mean live a Charlie Sheen lifestyle. But saving it up all up for the future doesn't always pay off.


I'm saving up so I can have a Charlie Sheen lifestyle at some point.

[DaFace]

Yeah, that's another point I forgot to address in my response to him: not only can you build good credit, but you get free shit.

The card I currently use is a Royal Caribbean rewards Visa. For every $100 I get $1 in "Royal Points". I can trade those in for upgrades on cabins, or simply for onboard credit. Do I go out and charge $20,000 worth of shit just to get a $200 onboard credit? No. But if it's $20,000 I'm going to spend anyway... why not charge it and get the free onboard credit? :shrug:

I'm a huge fan of Discover's Escape card. Assuming you use it for travel (airfare, hotels, or rental cars), it's essentially a 2% cash back card. It makes for a nice little "vacation savings account" kind of deal.

[R8RFAN]

Hence the reason it's wise to do one of two things:

1.) Buy a car that holds its value so you can sell it in a few years, or...
2.) Buy a car that you plan on keeping long enough to justify the cost (like, until it dies).

I've had 4 new cars. Bought one, kept it 10 years and put 100,000+ on it before it died (it was a little POS Hyundai Excel, I paid six grand brand new, LOL). Bought the next, still have it 11 years later with 133,000 on it. Bought the third in '03, has around 65,000 on it. Bought the fourth two years ago, has 20,000 on it and we don't plan on selling it.

I have 4 cars... 3 low miles 1 high miles

One of my trucks is a 94 mazda with 194k on it that I drive 60 miles round trip to work and back a day...
I gave 1000 bucks for it 4 years ago...

It basically pays me to drive it

[JD10367]

I'm saving up so I can have a Charlie Sheen lifestyle at some point.

Shit, man, you can have it now, the key is to use CHEAP hookers and CHEAP booze. :thumb:

[JD10367]

I have 4 cars... 3 low miles 1 high miles

One of my trucks is a 94 mazda with 194k on it that I drive 60 miles round trip to work and back a day...
I gave 1000 bucks for it 4 years ago...

It basically pays me to drive it

This brings up yet another point: it's okay to drive a cheap POS, as long as you have other cars to back it up. That 194,000-mile car may shit the bed soon with something very expensive to fix but, since you only paid a grand, you can afford to say "fuck it" and just junk it, and you have other cars to drive in the meantime. It sucks to have a banger as your only vehicle, but as an additional vehicle it's pretty much like a disposable car... use it until it croaks.

[The Franchise]

all depends....

How much do you make a yr?
How much did you put down?

If you make 100k a year and live with mom and want a 28 k car... go for it...

if you work at taco bell and live with mom, it's still not a good idea...

I just said I was married with kids......so I'm pretty sure I don't live with my Mom. And I damn sure don't work at Taco Bell.

[eazyb81]

This brings up yet another point: it's okay to drive a cheap POS, as long as you have other cars to back it up. That 194,000-mile car may shit the bed soon with something very expensive to fix but, since you only paid a grand, you can afford to say "**** it" and just junk it, and you have other cars to drive in the meantime. It sucks to have a banger as your only vehicle, but as an additional vehicle it's pretty much like a disposable car... use it until it croaks.

And who needs a house? Coleman makes very nice tents these days - they basically pay you to use them.

And clothes? Pssssh. I laugh at people that actually buy clothes at stores and pay insane markups to the Chinese. You can find old dirty towels in dumpsters FOR FREE every Sunday! People are so stupid these days.

Stop being a slave to debt people!!!!!!1111

[R8RFAN]

I just said I was married with kids......so I'm pretty sure I don't live with my Mom. And I damn sure don't work at Taco Bell.

Some people are married with kids and live with mom... You got something against Moms?

[R8RFAN]

And who needs a house? Coleman makes very nice tents these days - they basically pay you to use them.

And clothes? Pssssh. I laugh at people that actually buy clothes at stores and pay insane markups to the Chinese. You can find old dirty towels in dumpsters FOR FREE every Sunday! People are so stupid these days.

Stop being a slave to debt people!!!!!!1111

The most beautiful thing about being in America and being debt free is if you don't like being debt free, you can ALWAYS go back in debt... :thumb:

[The Franchise]

Some people are married with kids and live with mom... You got something against Moms?

:facepalm:

[R8RFAN]

This brings up yet another point: it's okay to drive a cheap POS, as long as you have other cars to back it up. That 194,000-mile car may shit the bed soon with something very expensive to fix but, since you only paid a grand, you can afford to say "**** it" and just junk it, and you have other cars to drive in the meantime. It sucks to have a banger as your only vehicle, but as an additional vehicle it's pretty much like a disposable car... use it until it croaks.

hells ya, I want to get 300k out of it... it still uses no oil between oil changes, does not leak or smoke :thumb:

[Simply Red]

Actually, that's none of your business, Daface, but I can assure you, it wasn't cheap ...

[Simply Red]

I haven't bought a new car since 2002, and that was a Toyota Sienna minivan (that we still own) that we paid something like $30K for.

I drive a 99 Honda Civic that I bought used in 03 for a lot less than $30K.

BUT ... both are paid off, and I plan to drive them until they collapse, because I LOVE not having car payments.

BTW, you don't really NEED a car where you are, provided everything is about seven (or less) minutes away. :)

[siberian khatru]

BTW, you don't really NEED a car where you are, provided everything is about seven (or less) minutes away. :)

I can take the Bay Town Trolley!

[Simply Red]

LOL

[Bearcat]

$27,000 and I was not making 100k and/or living with mom at the time. LMAO

[jd1020]

BTW, you don't really NEED a car where you are, provided everything is about seven (or less) minutes away. :)

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/snmz8s5SACc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If he can ride the bus so can you!

[Rain Man]

Shit, man, you can have it now, the key is to use CHEAP hookers and CHEAP booze. :thumb:


If a hooker was cheap enough that I could afford her, I don't think I'd want her.

[KCHawg]

Nothing if you like spending 1000 per month on a vehicle I guess :spock:

We're not raiders fans here, so we have to pay for vehicles instead of jacking the one we like at the street corner...:D

[MahiMike]

I've had 31 cars since I was 15. Made money on most of them even after driving them. Only new car I ever bought is my 2003 Tundra. My 98 Avalon will hit 200K next month. Gonna drive them both for years to come.

[JD10367]

If a hooker was cheap enough that I could afford her, I don't think I'd want her.

Is that like when Mark Twain said he'd never be a member of any club that would have him? :)

[Bugeater]

The most expensive one that was my personal vehicle was an $8,000 Voyager, and I'll never do that again. $5k is the most I'd ever spend for something for myself, I'm too friggin rough on them to have anything real nice.

The Mrs and I bought a brand new $13k Saturn for her back in 1996, and I'll never do that again either.

[Stryker]

What an awesome topic! I never thought about it until I saw this post.

MOST of my life would have been $18,999 (1995 Dodge Dakota Sport). But, I recently (last year) bought a 2010 Fusion @ $25,000 and just flipped a 2009 Ford Escape for a 2007 fully loaded Ford Expedition. Thus, $34,361.50. Wow!

[Gadzooks]

The Mrs and I bought a brand new $13k Saturn for her back in 1996, and I'll never do that again either.

Ha! 1996 Saturn...:rolleyes:

[Saul Good]

If a hooker was cheap enough that I could afford her, I don't think I'd want her.

Just look for an older model with a few more miles that isn't leaking any fluids.

[mlyonsd]

Looking at a 93 Concorde from a guy at work.....dunno....he wants $400. And I have to provide the battery charger to get it started. Course it was -18 last night.

[Saul Good]

Similarly, most financial advisors will advise against paying down a mortgage in a hurry since investments have historically outperformed the interest you'd end up paying on a mortgage.

That's true, but most financial advisers are broke idiots that don't know shit. Those companies scoop up kids right out of college by the hundreds and make them buy lunches for people who drop their business cards into a fish bowl. Besides, nobody is going to pay a financial adviser who tells you to do without until you can pay for something in cash. Of course they are going to tell you that you are better off leveraging yourself. It's how they make their money.

As for car loans, I certainly don't disagree with the idea that buying with cash is ideal, but when you've got an option to take a promotional interest rate that's less than 3 percent? It doesn't make sense NOT to.

If you can make a spread on the money, that's great. Most people are more likely to lose their asses trying to make a spread on their promotional credit cards. If you carry a $10,000 balance at 3% and make 6% on that money in an investment for a year, congratulations. You just made $300. I guess that's about $225 after taxes. If you invested it yourself through E-Trade or something like that, it's more like $175 after fees.

If it's worth your time, effort, and risk, go for it. It's not worth it to me, and I've got a Finance degree (so you know it pains me not to put my money to work). It's just brings so much more calm into my world to scratch the check and be done with it than to go hunting for pennies.

R8ers comes across like a know-it-all prick when he gets on his soapbox, but he really is just trying to help. He's sacrificed (to an extreme that is beyond what I would be willing to make) in order to reach his current position, and he's obviously very happy with his decision. I remember his thread a few years ago when he was contemplating paying off his house, and he did it.

You can pretty much tell the world to eat shit when you don't owe anyone anything. It's amazing how much money you can stockpile when your only bills are gas, insurance, food, and utilities.

[Marcellus]

My 2005 Silverado new was $24,000 I saved almost $6k when they were doing employee pricing for everyone.

It's been dependable and troublefree for the most part.

Now on the other hand I have 65' ChevyII in the garage that I have almost as much $ in with about 15k left to go to finish.

Not a good investment but a ton of fun.

[RJ]

Is that like when Mark Twain said he'd never be a member of any club that would have him? :)


That was Groucho Marx. But I get your point.

[rtmike]

Bought & paid for a couple Dodge trucks. The higher of the 2 being $35k.

I've done pretty good with my classic cars selling them. Around 2000 I bought a car for $17k, invested maybe $2k & sold it for $49k since I couldn't drive a 4 gear anymore.

[DaFace]

There's a really interesting trend in the data. I'd be curious to know if it's reliable with a larger sample, but for each of the sets of $10,000, more people spent in the higher category of $5,000 than in the lower category. In other words, more people spent between $5k and $10k than spent less than $5k, more spent between $15k-$20k than $10-15k, etc.

The trend breaks down above $40k, but I wonder if it's a real trend or just a ChiefsPlanet anomaly. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if people have a mental barrier at the $10k multiples and go into it thinking "I'll spend up to, but not over, $20k" or something like that. That's kind of what I've been doing in my mind before posting this thread.

Fascinating.

[Marcellus]

There's a really interesting trend in the data. I'd be curious to know if it's reliable with a larger sample, but for each of the sets of $10,000, more people spent in the higher category of $5,000 than in the lower category. In other words, more people spent between $5k and $10k than spent less than $5k, more spent between $15k-$20k than $10-15k, etc.

The trend breaks down above $40k, but I wonder if it's a real trend or just a ChiefsPlanet anomaly. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if people have a mental barrier at the $10k multiples and go into it thinking "I'll spend up to, but not over, $20k" or something like that. That's kind of what I've been doing in my mind before posting this thread.

Fascinating.

A larger sample will probably change the data dramatically.

Doing the poll on CP is fundamentally flawed.

Used Camaros are cheap.

[2112]

I bought my current truck just by looking on a lot one summer day. they had exactly what I was looking for. (which never ever happens)

So I see this old timer come walking up behind me asking me if I need any help. I said sure, get they keys for this truck and lets take a ride. after test driving it I said to myself Im gonna buy this truck today.

We sit down and he crosses out the retail price on a piece of paper and gives a reduction. I take his pen and cross out his price and make an even bigger deduction. (I hate haggling) so the retail was $27,800, I got him down to $21,500. done deal!

So I tell him have it ready in 3 hours and I'll be back with a bank check. then he goes to me ''How's your credit''? :banghead: Im about to freak out on this guy and then he tells me no! if your credit is good we will take a personal check. so Im like, ok. it has been a great vehicle. I bought it in 2004 and havent had any problems. it was the first ever automatic transmission I have had in my life..lol.


I should mention that you should never go car shopping when you are in desperate need of a vehicle. it makes you make dumb decisions sometimes.

Good luck, DaFace.

[2112]

If I spend anything more than 25k on a car I would have to live in it.

[DaFace]

I should mention that you should never go car shopping when you are in desperate need of a vehicle. it makes you make dumb decisions sometimes.

Good luck, DaFace.

Yeah, that's why I'm considering my options now. My car's actually running fine and can be "easily" fixed. But my guess is that it'd cost more to fix it than I'd get in a trade, so I want to make sure I know my options now.

[R8RFAN]

That's true, but most financial advisers are broke idiots that don't know shit. Those companies scoop up kids right out of college by the hundreds and make them buy lunches for people who drop their business cards into a fish bowl. Besides, nobody is going to pay a financial adviser who tells you to do without until you can pay for something in cash. Of course they are going to tell you that you are better off leveraging yourself. It's how they make their money.



If you can make a spread on the money, that's great. Most people are more likely to lose their asses trying to make a spread on their promotional credit cards. If you carry a $10,000 balance at 3% and make 6% on that money in an investment for a year, congratulations. You just made $300. I guess that's about $225 after taxes. If you invested it yourself through E-Trade or something like that, it's more like $175 after fees.

If it's worth your time, effort, and risk, go for it. It's not worth it to me, and I've got a Finance degree (so you know it pains me not to put my money to work). It's just brings so much more calm into my world to scratch the check and be done with it than to go hunting for pennies.

R8ers comes across like a know-it-all prick when he gets on his soapbox, but he really is just trying to help. He's sacrificed (to an extreme that is beyond what I would be willing to make) in order to reach his current position, and he's obviously very happy with his decision. I remember his thread a few years ago when he was contemplating paying off his house, and he did it.

You can pretty much tell the world to eat shit when you don't owe anyone anything. It's amazing how much money you can stockpile when your only bills are gas, insurance, food, and utilities.

I think you are my long lost twin brother :thumb:, if I ever meet you I will buy you a steak and a beer at Longhorn but you will have to find a Chief fan for the BJ.

[HMc]

they're everywhere, these zero-debt crusaders.

the problem with criticising cars as poor investments is that, for the most part, cars aren't investments. they're consumption goods, or as dane put it, expenses.

My personal view is that if you sell the car when the price you get pays of the balance, you can look at the monthly payment as a fee to hire a car.

and LOL at the fact that this dude lived in a freakin trailer for 10 years to save cash. Maybe if you'd gone to college you could have a good equity level AND high consumption levels.

[eazyb81]

they're everywhere, these zero-debt crusaders.

the problem with criticising cars as poor investments is that, for the most part, cars aren't investments. they're consumption goods, or as dane put it, expenses.

My personal view is that if you sell the car when the price you get pays of the balance, you can look at the monthly payment as a fee to hire a car.

and LOL at the fact that this dude lived in a freakin trailer for 10 years to save cash. Maybe if you'd gone to college you could have a good equity level AND high consumption levels.

Exactly.

Lowering and even eliminating debt is great, but when you do it to such a ridiculous degree, such as living in a trailer or driving a POS $1000 car, it's time to step back and reevaluate your life.

You obviously can't buy everything you want in life, but not buying anything in order to pack away more and more money is a sad existence.

[PornChief]

we've had 2 Subaru's - an 99 outback and now a 08 forester. they're reliable as hell, nothing ever went wrong with either, apart from hitting a kangaroo twice. They were pretty much the wife's cars but they're great to drive.

[siberian khatru]

I think you are my long lost twin brother :thumb:, if I ever meet you I will buy you a steak and a beer at Longhorn but you will have to find a Chief fan for the BJ.

Surely you can afford better than that.

[jd1020]

Surely you can afford better than that.

HEY! "The Outlaw" is one of the best steaks I've ever had. Who cares how much you pay.

I'll go!

[Bwana]

we've had 2 Subaru's - an 99 outback and now a 08 forester. they're reliable as hell, nothing ever went wrong with either, apart from hitting a kangaroo twice. They were pretty much the wife's cars but they're great to drive.

Heh

[Rain Man]

Bought & paid for a couple Dodge trucks. The higher of the 2 being $35k.

I've done pretty good with my classic cars selling them. Around 2000 I bought a car for $17k, invested maybe $2k & sold it for $49k since I couldn't drive a 4 gear anymore.

What kind of car was that, if I may ask?

[Rain Man]

There's a really interesting trend in the data. I'd be curious to know if it's reliable with a larger sample, but for each of the sets of $10,000, more people spent in the higher category of $5,000 than in the lower category. In other words, more people spent between $5k and $10k than spent less than $5k, more spent between $15k-$20k than $10-15k, etc.

The trend breaks down above $40k, but I wonder if it's a real trend or just a ChiefsPlanet anomaly. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if people have a mental barrier at the $10k multiples and go into it thinking "I'll spend up to, but not over, $20k" or something like that. That's kind of what I've been doing in my mind before posting this thread.

Fascinating.

My first reaction was that car companies and car dealers are more likely to price a car in the 5-9 price range than in the 0-4 price range, because they're trying to maximize income while not moving the leftmost digit up.

"Buy now! Only $19,999!"

"Take it home for only $29,999!"

That sort of thing.

[Saul Good]

Surely you can afford better than that.

Longhorn kicks ass. It's actually the same meat that Capital Grill serves without all the ambiance. Its my second favorite restaurant in the area behind La Bodega.

[Lzen]

Most I have ever spent was when I bought my '03 F150 in '05. It had 25k miles. I paid 17k for it.

[Lzen]

That's true, but most financial advisers are broke idiots that don't know shit. Those companies scoop up kids right out of college by the hundreds and make them buy lunches for people who drop their business cards into a fish bowl. Besides, nobody is going to pay a financial adviser who tells you to do without until you can pay for something in cash. Of course they are going to tell you that you are better off leveraging yourself. It's how they make their money.



If you can make a spread on the money, that's great. Most people are more likely to lose their asses trying to make a spread on their promotional credit cards. If you carry a $10,000 balance at 3% and make 6% on that money in an investment for a year, congratulations. You just made $300. I guess that's about $225 after taxes. If you invested it yourself through E-Trade or something like that, it's more like $175 after fees.

If it's worth your time, effort, and risk, go for it. It's not worth it to me, and I've got a Finance degree (so you know it pains me not to put my money to work). It's just brings so much more calm into my world to scratch the check and be done with it than to go hunting for pennies.

R8ers comes across like a know-it-all prick when he gets on his soapbox, but he really is just trying to help. He's sacrificed (to an extreme that is beyond what I would be willing to make) in order to reach his current position, and he's obviously very happy with his decision. I remember his thread a few years ago when he was contemplating paying off his house, and he did it.

You can pretty much tell the world to eat shit when you don't owe anyone anything. It's amazing how much money you can stockpile when your only bills are gas, insurance, food, and utilities.

I would love to do this. I have all the Dave Ramsey stuff. But man, that takes some major sacrifices. :(

[Saul Good]

they're everywhere, these zero-debt crusaders.

the problem with criticising cars as poor investments is that, for the most part, cars aren't investments. they're consumption goods, or as dane put it, expenses.

My personal view is that if you sell the car when the price you get pays of the balance, you can look at the monthly payment as a fee to hire a car.

and LOL at the fact that this dude lived in a freakin trailer for 10 years to save cash. Maybe if you'd gone to college you could have a good equity level AND high consumption levels.

Let's say you purchase cars from age 20 to age 50. You pay $400 per month for those 30 years. You would have made just under $150,000 in payments over that period. If you had invested that money instead, you would be sitting on nearly $1,000,000 cash at age 50. That's a lot of dough.

If you save up $200 a month cash for those cars, you could still wind up with $450k at age 50 while driving a nice car the whole time.

Its not stupid to have nice cars, but the average American sacrifices about 30 years worth of salary just on the opportunity cost of cars.

[vailpass]

Life is too short not to drive a new car if that is what you like.

[Saul Good]

I would love to do this. I have all the Dave Ramsey stuff. But man, that takes some major sacrifices. :(

He's the extreme on that end (R8ers). There is a middle ground that most people can live with. Truthfully, you can generally get out of debt besides your home in 18-24 months if you are willing to work at it.

I don't know his situation, so I will make up a scenario that I perceive to be similar. Take a 21 y/o right out of college with no debt (scholarshps, parental help, p/t jobs, whatever). If that kid makes $35,000 a year, he could qualify to buy a $125,000 house. That would give him a payment of $1,000 a month.

That same kid could rent a shitty apartment with a roommate or two for $300 and live there until he is 26 and walk away with around $35,000 cash. He can buy a $10,000 car for cash and another one every 4 years for the rest of his life just off the interest from the left over $25,000.

[eazyb81]

Let's say you purchase cars from age 20 to age 50. You pay $400 per month for those 30 years. You would have made just under $150,000 in payments over that period. If you had invested that money instead, you would be sitting on nearly $1,000,000 cash at age 50. That's a lot of dough.

If you save up $200 a month cash for those cars, you could still wind up with $450k at age 50 while driving a nice car the whole time.

Its not stupid to have nice cars, but the average American sacrifices about 30 years worth of salary just on the opportunity cost of cars.

Can't you say this about anything though?

If you didn't have cable TV and internet you would save $100 a month....

If you didn't have an IPhone with the full data service you would save $100 a month....

If you get you clothes at goodwill instead of the mall you would save $200 a month....

And what is your end game here? Is the goal to just save every penny and not treat yourself to anything in your short life?

I get wanting to save for retirement and not go bankrupt, but some of the Ramsey-ites and their ilk take it too far in the other direction, IMO.

[El Jefe]

It's not as uncommon as you think , it's sad really, I hate to see kids start life up to their asses in debt...

High debt is the number one cause of marriage breakups too

Spot on in this post, sad but it is very very common.

[Saul Good]

Life is too short not to drive a new car if that is what you like.

Life is really long when you're broke. Really, really long.

[ModSocks]

they're everywhere, these zero-debt crusaders.

the problem with criticising cars as poor investments is that, for the most part, cars aren't investments. they're consumption goods, or as dane put it, expenses.

My personal view is that if you sell the car when the price you get pays of the balance, you can look at the monthly payment as a fee to hire a car.

and LOL at the fact that this dude lived in a freakin trailer for 10 years to save cash. Maybe if you'd gone to college you could have a good equity level AND high consumption levels.

Meh.

Depends on what you buy. Some cars are indeed investments. In our industry, they're commonly referred to as "investments" rather than calling them "projects" or hobby cars.

[vailpass]

Life is really long when you're broke. Really, really long.

Not sure what you mean here. Driving a new car certainly doesn't mean you are broke. If you choose to allocate some of your resources to the expense (not investment) of a new car that does not mean you are fiscally irresponsible. If the utility you realize in doing so outweighs the cost then you have made a positive decision.
And new leather smells fucking good.

[Lzen]

Can't you say this about anything though?

If you didn't have cable TV and internet you would save $100 a month....

If you didn't have an IPhone with the full data service you would save $100 a month....

If you get you clothes at goodwill instead of the mall you would save $200 a month....

And what is your end game here? Is the goal to just save every penny and not treat yourself to anything in your short life?

I get wanting to save for retirement and not go bankrupt, but some of the Ramsey-ites and their ilk take it too far in the other direction, IMO.

The Ramsey followers sacrifice like that for a few months to a couple years or so. Once they are done, however, they are able to live freely and buy things with cash. Its a temporary sacrifice. And there are different levels you can choose.

[DaFace]

Not sure what you mean here. Driving a new car certainly doesn't mean you are broke. If you choose to allocate some of your resources to the expense (not investment) of a new car that does not mean you are fiscally irresponsible. If the utility you realize in doing so outweighs the cost then you have made a positive decision.
And new leather smells fucking good.

This is part of my issue with this whole thing. Ramsey's approach is great if you are 1) poor, 2) above your head in debt, or 3) don't know how to effectively evaluate what you can and cannot handle from a purchasing standpoint.

The place where I strongly disagree with the Ramsey-ites is that it's entirely possible to live below your means, while still taking out loans to do it when it's to your financial benefit. I don't disagree, however, that a lot of people have trouble understanding the numbers, though, and therefore end up getting themselves into trouble.

[ferrarispider95]

You can squeak by life paying in cash and I would recommend it for depreciating assets, but if you are going to build substantial wealth you need credit.

[Lzen]

You can squeak by life paying in cash and I would recommend it for depreciating assets, but if you are going to build substantial wealth you need credit.

Well, Dave Ramsey is wealthy and his credit score is "0". ;)

[Lzen]

This is part of my issue with this whole thing. Ramsey's approach is great if you are 1) poor, 2) above your head in debt, or 3) don't know how to effectively evaluate what you can and cannot handle from a purchasing standpoint.

The place where I strongly disagree with the Ramsey-ites is that it's entirely possible to live below your means, while still taking out loans to do it when it's to your financial benefit. I don't disagree, however, that a lot of people have trouble understanding the numbers, though, and therefore end up getting themselves into trouble.

Ramsey's approach is more that instead of paying a bunch of money to CC companies and banks on interest, you could wisely use that money to your advantage.

[DaFace]

Ramsey's approach is more that instead of paying a bunch of money to CC companies and banks on interest, you could wisely use that money to your advantage.

I don't disagree with the overall idea, but...

1) Credit cards cost you nothing as long as you always pay off the balance, and most give you rewards for using them
2) Mortgages typically have interest rates far lower than the rates you can get by investing your money, not to mention that mortgage interest is tax deductible
3) Some "teaser" offers (0% financing types of things) for various types of loans will allow you to invest your money elsewhere, provided you pay them off by the time the offer expires
4) Some types of loans are necessary for people to increase their long-term expected income (student loans, business startup loans, etc.)

However, I certainly do not disagree that you should NEVER...

1) Pay interest on a credit card
2) Not invest the money you save by not paying your mortgage off early
3) Use an introductory offer to buy something you couldn't afford otherwise (or fail to pay it off before the offer expires)
4) Take out a student loan/business loan without a solid timeline on how and when it'll be paid off

[DaneMcCloud]

Let's say you purchase cars from age 20 to age 50. You pay $400 per month for those 30 years. You would have made just under $150,000 in payments over that period. If you had invested that money instead, you would be sitting on nearly $1,000,000 cash at age 50.

Unless they're a dramatic stock market loss and you lose 40% of your total value along the way, making it impossible to have $1M at age 50.

Oh, and no car.

[Saul Good]

This is part of my issue with this whole thing. Ramsey's approach is great if you are 1) poor, 2) above your head in debt, or 3) don't know how to effectively evaluate what you can and cannot handle from a purchasing standpoint.

The place where I strongly disagree with the Ramsey-ites is that it's entirely possible to live below your means, while still taking out loans to do it when it's to your financial benefit. I don't disagree, however, that a lot of people have trouble understanding the numbers, though, and therefore end up getting themselves into trouble.

I am far from poor, have never been deeply in debt, and I have a degree in Finance. I did a "light" version of his plan because the idea of getting completely out of debt was appealing.

4 years later, I have no need for debt beyond my mortgage. By the time I'm 40, I won't even have that. If I want to buy a new car, I can write a check. If I want to go on vacation, its on my debit card. Its not that it's too hard to manage debt. Its just that you have so much more money when you aren't making the banks rich.

A couple of years of sacrificing some luxuries has put my family in a position that I don't have to sacrifice much of anything anymore. Now, its more like a game. Every $1000 I am able to save above and beyond my normal retirement allocations is a month earlier that I can retire.

[Bowser]

Well, Dave Ramsey is wealthy and his credit score is "0". ;)

He's got a girlie voice.


People should just use a dose of common sense. We're going to have to pay for whatever it is we need one way or another, so just keep it reasonable. If you make 40K a year, you probably shouldn't be getting the 7 class BMW. I'm certainlyu not scared of credit cards and the like, but I don't lean on them to make my way through life, either.

[DaneMcCloud]

He's the extreme on that end (R8ers). There is a middle ground that most people can live with. Truthfully, you can generally get out of debt besides your home in 18-24 months if you are willing to work at it.

I don't know his situation, so I will make up a scenario that I perceive to be similar. Take a 21 y/o right out of college with no debt (scholarshps, parental help, p/t jobs, whatever). If that kid makes $35,000 a year, he could qualify to buy a $125,000 house. That would give him a payment of $1,000 a month.

That same kid could rent a shitty apartment with a roommate or two for $300 and live there until he is 26 and walk away with around $35,000 cash. He can buy a $10,000 car for cash and another one every 4 years for the rest of his life just off the interest from the left over $25,000.

Scenarios like this are unrealistic to people in many parts of the country.

As someone who made $35k when I first arrived in Los Angeles in 1993, I could barely afford a studio single apartment, let alone a home. It's extremely difficult to live in a big city on $35k, which is about $24.5k after taxes.

And when rent and utilities are $1,200 a month, car liability is $100 per month (not full coverage but liability), gas is $100 per month and so on, you're basically living week to week with no savings.

[DaFace]

I am far from poor, have never been deeply in debt, and I have a degree in Finance. I did a "light" version of his plan because the idea of getting completely out of debt was appealing.

4 years later, I have no need for debt beyond my mortgage. By the time I'm 40, I won't even have that. If I want to buy a new car, I can write a check. If I want to go on vacation, its on my debit card. Its not that it's too hard to manage debt. Its just that you have so much more money when you aren't making the banks rich.

A couple of years of sacrificing some luxuries has put my family in a position that I don't have to sacrifice much of anything anymore. Now, its more like a game. Every $1000 I am able to save above and beyond my normal retirement allocations is a month earlier that I can retire.

And that I don't have an issue with. If you would like to make short-term sacrifices, more power to you. It's really only the idea that paying off a mortgage dramatically early that I have a major issue with (and that all credit cards are evil). It's almost NEVER a better long-term decision than investing the money elsewhere. If it gives you peace of mind, then more power to you as long as you realize that there's about a 95% chance that your peace of mind is costing you money.

[R8RFAN]

HEY! "The Outlaw" is one of the best steaks I've ever had. Who cares how much you pay.

I'll go!

you know what a good steak is........

[DaneMcCloud]

If I want to buy a new car, I can write a check.

Why would anyone write a check for a car? I don't care if it's a $25k or a $75k car, you're losing the opportunity to grow a decent pile of cash into something so much more.

Last year, we had 28% gains in the market. We have a diverse portfolio that's managed not by a kid, but by a true financial adviser with many clients worth well in excess of $100 million.

I'm not stating that Dave Ramsey is wrong but his ideas sound rather myopic.

[DaneMcCloud]

And that I don't have an issue with. If you would like to make short-term sacrifices, more power to you. It's really only the idea that paying off a mortgage dramatically early that I have a major issue with (and that all credit cards are evil). It's almost NEVER a better long-term decision than investing the money elsewhere. If it gives you peace of mind, then more power to you as long as you realize that there's about a 95% chance that your peace of mind is costing you money.

Paying off a home early is silly, IMO.

It's CHEAP money. Most likely, people these days have interest rates in the 5's, some even in the 4's! Invest the money that you'd otherwise use to pay off the bank, don't just pay off the bank.

Plus, depending on when you bought your home, especially if it was at the top of the market, you're screwing yourself big time.

[stevieray]

different strokes for different folks.

I think the key, no matter the purchase, is living within your means.

[Saulbadguy]

This is part of my issue with this whole thing. Ramsey's approach is great if you are 1) poor, 2) above your head in debt, or 3) don't know how to effectively evaluate what you can and cannot handle from a purchasing standpoint.

The place where I strongly disagree with the Ramsey-ites is that it's entirely possible to live below your means, while still taking out loans to do it when it's to your financial benefit. I don't disagree, however, that a lot of people have trouble understanding the numbers, though, and therefore end up getting themselves into trouble.

4) Christian.

NTTAWWT, but he does offer a very Christian perspective and links that to his teachings on debt relief and money management.

[DaneMcCloud]

different strokes for different folks.

I think the key, no matter the purchase, is living within your means.

Absolutely.

But I'd never sacrifice the present so that some day, I wouldn't have a house payment.

Live for the day and do it wisely.

[Bugeater]

He's the extreme on that end (R8ers). There is a middle ground that most people can live with. Truthfully, you can generally get out of debt besides your home in 18-24 months if you are willing to work at it.

I don't know his situation, so I will make up a scenario that I perceive to be similar. Take a 21 y/o right out of college with no debt (scholarshps, parental help, p/t jobs, whatever). If that kid makes $35,000 a year, he could qualify to buy a $125,000 house. That would give him a payment of $1,000 a month.

That same kid could rent a shitty apartment with a roommate or two for $300 and live there until he is 26 and walk away with around $35,000 cash. He can buy a $10,000 car for cash and another one every 4 years for the rest of his life just off the interest from the left over $25,000.
Ok, I'm no finance major, but you're saying he'll make $2500/yr in interest on that $25k over 4 years, which would mean he's getting an interest rate of 10%. Either tell me where I'm going wrong with my math, or tell me where this bank is that pays 10% interest.

[DaFace]

Paying off a home early is silly, IMO.

It's CHEAP money. Most likely, people these days have interest rates in the 5's, some even in the 4's! Invest the money that you'd otherwise use to pay off the bank, don't just pay off the bank.

Plus, depending on when you bought your home, especially if it was at the top of the market, you're screwing yourself big time.

Yep. Plus, mortgage interest is tax deductible, making the effective interest rates in the 3's and low 4's for most people.

[R8RFAN]

they're everywhere, these zero-debt crusaders.

the problem with criticising cars as poor investments is that, for the most part, cars aren't investments. they're consumption goods, or as dane put it, expenses.

My personal view is that if you sell the car when the price you get pays of the balance, you can look at the monthly payment as a fee to hire a car.

and LOL at the fact that this dude lived in a freakin trailer for 10 years to save cash. Maybe if you'd gone to college you could have a good equity level AND high consumption levels.

You guys are wack, of course people take it to extreme, look at those couponers or hoarders or thos crazy cat ladys ...

As far as the trailer... I was SINGLE , I was not cramming 14 kids into a trailer, that trailer was brand new when I bought it , it was 14 ft wide x 70 foot long, very clean & very warm, sure I could have left and bought a house 10 yrs earlier but if I had done that, I would have never been able to be disciplined enough to pay it of in less than 6 years...

Its funny as hell to see people like you ASSUME that since I refuse to make payments on over priced crap and choose to buy it cash, you think I am sitting here poor using a light bulb as a heater...

Oh and about that college stuff, gave it a thought, I make 70-80 a year depending on how much I CHOOSE TO WORK per year... (get that I choose part?) most of those are making less than me and still paying off student loans....

You are like many people, you are to dumb to save money but you criticize those who do out of envy....

Enjoy your broke ass life

[R8RFAN]

Yep. Plus, mortgage interest is tax deductible, making the effective interest rates in the 3's and low 4's for most people.

Yea thats a good point'''

Get 3500 back from the Gubment a yr or save 6k in interest :spock:

[DeepPurple]

I learned to drive in 1965 on a four year old Nash Metropolitan convertible that my dad bought new for $1800. It had a 3 speed on the column, I would love to own one of those today. After that I only bought new cars;

1969 Datsun 510 4 speed (green) - new $1,900
1975 Kawasaki 400 motorcycle (red) - new $1,400
1976 Honda Civic hatchback 4 speed (silver) new - $3,300
1980 Mazda 626 4 speed (tan) new - $6,600
1985 Honda CRX hatchback 4 speed (dark blue) new - $8,700
1987 VW Scirroco 5 speed (silver) - new $14,000
1990 Ford Ranger STX auto 4 wheel dr (bronze) - new $17,000
1997 Chevy Lumina auto (maroon) - new $20,000 (still own, 51,000 miles)
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe hatchback auto (gray) - new $24,000 (16,000 miles)

[eazyb81]

Paying off a home early is silly, IMO.

It's CHEAP money. Most likely, people these days have interest rates in the 5's, some even in the 4's! Invest the money that you'd otherwise use to pay off the bank, don't just pay off the bank.

Plus, depending on when you bought your home, especially if it was at the top of the market, you're screwing yourself big time.

:thumb:

Exactly.

[eazyb81]

Yea thats a good point'''

Get 3500 back from the Gubment a yr or save 6k in interest :spock:

You completely missed his point.

You're not "saving" 6K in interest; you are losing the opportunity to earn a higher rate elsewhere.

[R8RFAN]

:thumb:

Exactly.

Yea it's stupid as hell to pay off all your bills and putr all your money in your pocket each month....

Are people REALLY this dense?


If you have 1000 DOLLAR PAYMENT probably 700 is interest, what the hell is interest buying you "EXACTLY :thumb:":spock:

The guys I work with have the same mentality, but while they never can afford to take a day off because of their stupid financial decisions and begging a boss to let em work on Saturday, I work 2 or 3 days a week and I am in the boat when they call me and ask me are they biting.....

[R8RFAN]

You completely missed his point.

You're not "saving" 6K in interest; you are losing the opportunity to earn a higher rate elsewhere.


dude borrowing is borrowing no matter what....

YOU CAN NEVER GET AHEAD BORROWING MONEY, if you borrow for a lifestyle you will be broke all your life....

Creditors are NOT your friend, they want your damn money, do you understand the concept? Have you even got a freaking clue?

[eazyb81]

dude borrowing is borrowing no matter what....

YOU CAN NEVER GET AHEAD BORROWING MONEY, if you borrow for a lifestyle you will be broke all your life....

Creditors are NOT your friend, they want your damn money, do you understand the concept? Have you even got a freaking clue?

This is so narrow-minded.

If I can borrow money from you at 3% and turn around and invest it somewhere else at 10%, I will do that all f'n day long.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend that.

[R8RFAN]

This is so narrow-minded.

If I can borrow money from you at 3% and turn around and invest it somewhere else at 10%, I will do that all f'n day long.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend that.

I can pull money out of my pocket at 0% whats your point?

[R8RFAN]

This is so narrow-minded.

If I can borrow money from you at 3% and turn around and invest it somewhere else at 10%, I will do that all f'n day long.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend that.

also if you were that smart you would be living on an island sipping out of a pineapple

You THINK you can do that.

[eazyb81]

I can pull money out of my pocket at 0% whats your point?

:rolleyes:

I realize Oakland does not have the best public education system, but a net 7% is greater than the 0% return from your pocket.

[Brock]

dude borrowing is borrowing no matter what....

YOU CAN NEVER GET AHEAD BORROWING MONEY, if you borrow for a lifestyle you will be broke all your life....

Which is it, all borrowing is bad, or it's only bad if you borrow for a lifestyle?

[R8RFAN]

Which is it, all borrowing is bad, or it's only bad if you borrow for a lifestyle?

Borrowing is bad except for a place to live.... as long as it's 25% or less of your house hold income

then pay cash for everything and never borrow for a lifestyle

[R8RFAN]

:rolleyes:

I realize Oakland does not have the best public education system, but a net 7% is greater than the 0% return from your pocket.

Typical stupid comment when you are sitting there with the DUH look on your face....

Run along little boy, your getting your ass handed to you here.

[eazyb81]

Typical stupid comment when you are sitting there with the DUH look on your face....

Run along little boy, your getting your ass handed to you here.

LOL, good comeback moron.