St. Louis Missouri or Des Moines Iowa

[The Mad Crapper]

My employer might have an opportunity in both of these cities. I'm a northeast guy, I know very little about the midwest. I know most of the posters here live out there.

So convince me one way or the other. Thanks.

[DaKCMan AP]

St. Louis is, apparently, the most dangerous city in the US.

[Marco Polo]

I know both very well. It depends on who you are and what your lifestyle is. I'm from Iowa, but prefer St. Louis (I live there now).

[Rams Fan]

St. Louis is where it's at. Don't live in the city, live in the burbs if you can.

[Marco Polo]

St. Louis is, apparently, the most dangerous city in the US.

I live in a loft downtown and have never once felt threatened in any of the many times I've stumbled home from the bars. St. Louis is like every metro area; some really nice areas and then areas you stay away from. Choose the former and not the latter and you'll be just fine.

[Rams Fan]

I live in a loft downtown and have never once felt threatened in any of the many times I've stumbled home from the bars. St. Louis is like every metro area; some really nice areas and then areas you stay away from. Choose the former and not the latter and you'll be just fine.

This. CWE is nice, but I wouldn't go near there at night.

[Bowser]

Des Moines is about a third of the size of St. Louis. Both cities have nice places to go to eat and party, but St. Louis just has more of that, obviously. What's your situation - married, single, kids...?

[The Mad Crapper]

Thanks for the feedback. I know St. Louis is rough, I certainly wouldn't live in the city proper.

What I'm looking for is a comparison of car insurance rates, tax rates, food and income taxes etc. Basically the cost of living. Is it about the same?

[Saulbadguy]

St. Louis is, apparently, the most dangerous city in the US.

I recommend St Louis.

[The Mad Crapper]

Des Moines is about a third of the size of St. Louis. Both cities have nice places to go to eat and party, but St. Louis just has more of that, obviously. What's your situation - married, single, kids...?

Married, one daughter she's 19. Universities in both areas, are they about the same in terms of tuition and quality of education?

[Rams Fan]

Thanks for the feedback. I know St. Louis is rough, I certainly wouldn't live in the city proper.

What I'm looking for is a comparison of car insurance rates, tax rates, food and income taxes etc. Basically the cost of living. Is it about the same?

Well, the cost of gas in the St. Louis area is one of the cheapest in the nation.

[The Mad Crapper]

Well, the cost of gas in the St. Louis area is one of the cheapest in the nation.

Nice.

How about the weather? About the same? My wife is TERRIFIED of tornados.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

My employer might have an opportunity in both of these cities. I'm a northeast guy, I know very little about the midwest. I know most of the posters here live out there.

So convince me one way or the other. Thanks.

Please stay the fuck away from Missouri. Thanks!

[Rams Fan]

Nice.

How about the weather? About the same? My wife is TERRIFIED of tornados.

Missouri maybe in the tornado alley, but I don't remember any tornadoes hitting the area(except for a mall a few months back). It's really humid in the summer, though, but fall and spring are nice. This winter had more snow than it usually does.

[seclark]

i'm originally from st. louis. have lots of family there, and love to visit. i currently live about half way between stl and dm.

that said, i honestly believe if i had to choose to live in one or the other, i'd probably choose dm.(:eek:never considered it before). mostly because it is smaller, and i think it'd be easier to live out in the country while commuting to work in town.

that's just me though...i like my space.
sec

[The Mad Crapper]

i'm originally from st. louis. have lots of family there, and love to visit. i currently live about half way between stl and dm.

that said, i honestly believe if i had to choose to live in one or the other, i'd probably choose dm.(:eek:never considered it before). mostly because it is smaller, and i think it'd be easier to live out in the country while commuting to work in town.

that's just me though...i like my space.
sec

I like space too. I don't want to see my neighbors. I like to ride motorcycles. My wife and daughter like jeeps.

What about gun laws? About the same?

[Bowser]

Kind of suprisingly, I don't believe Des Moines is all that much cheaper to live in, compared to St. Louis. Like any state that doesn't draw in a ton of tourists every year, they get taxed rather heavily, or so I've heard. I'll let one of the resident Iowanians speak more to that....

St, Louis is a pretty cool town, from the bits I've seen. Lots to do there. Des Moines has its perks, as well, but if you're wanting the "feel" of a big town, Des Moines won't really give that to you.

[The Mad Crapper]

St, Louis is a pretty cool town, from the bits I've seen. Lots to do there. Des Moines has its perks, as well, but if you're wanting the "feel" of a big town, Des Moines won't really give that to you.

Thats not much of a priority-- I've lived 7 miles out of Manhattan NY all my life and I'm pretty much played out with urban living.

Don't like the "higher taxes" part of Des Moines, though.

[Rams Fan]

TMC, do you want to live in the suburbs? If so, you'd like Clayton.

[sedated]

one daughter she's 19.

pics?

[The Mad Crapper]

TMC, do you want to live in the suburbs? If so, you'd like Clayton.

Looks like a nice town...

http://www.claytonmo.gov/Visitor/Public_Art.htm

[Saulbadguy]

pics?

.

[Rain Man]

I lived in St. Louis for five years, and I've never set foot in Des Moines.

Move to Des Moines.

[stlchiefs]

TMC, do you want to live in the suburbs? If so, you'd like Clayton.

Sorry man, not sure I can agree with your posts here.

1. CWE at night is great. Awesome places to eat, outdoor seating, not sure what you're worried about, we go there quite often.
2. Clayton is hardly a suburb and if he's looking for space, a place to ride motorcycles and Jeeps, etc. Clayton is hardly the area, unless he's a multimillionaire and plans on buying up an entire block. Depending on his price range, he's going to be looking at Chesterfield, Ballwin or probably St. Charles to get some space.

[stlchiefs]

Looks like a nice town...

http://www.claytonmo.gov/Visitor/Public_Art.htm

Not sure what you're looking for, but you may have been mislead. Clayton is not really a "suburb" in the traditional sense , but is really the business center of St. Louis. It's a 2nd downtown, but the newer area, where more and more businesses are moving.

[Rams Fan]

1. CWE at night is great. Awesome places to eat, outdoor seating, not sure what you're worried about, we go there quite often.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a ghetto near there? I know there is somewhere that isn't safe near it. I go to CWE during the day and usually drive through there at night.


2. Clayton is hardly a suburb and if he's looking for space, a place to ride motorcycles and Jeeps, etc. Clayton is hardly the area, unless he's a multimillionaire and plans on buying up an entire block. Depending on his price range, he's going to be looking at Chesterfield, Ballwin or probably St. Charles to get some space.


You have a point there. This is just me, but I prefer Chesterfield to St. Charles.

[stlchiefs]

I obviously live in STL and like it well enough. Des Moines is a completely different kind of place. It's much smaller, therefore your suburbs are a bit closer to everything. I'd compare to Des Moines to a place like Wichita (don't know if that helps you at all). St. Louis is a much larger city, if you want your space you're going to have to have some $ or move quite a ways out, but that all depends on where your company's office is located. Any idea where their office is?

[Rams Fan]

Not sure what you're looking for, but you may have been mislead. Clayton is not really a "suburb" in the traditional sense , but is really the business center of St. Louis. It's a 2nd downtown, but the newer area, where more and more businesses are moving.

I live there. And stlchiefs is right, more businesses are starting to move to there. Heck, Centene is almost done building their new building.

[stlchiefs]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a ghetto near there? I know there is somewhere that isn't safe near it. I go to CWE during the day and usually drive through there at night.




You have a point there. This is just me, but I prefer Chesterfield to St. Charles.

There are some shady areas a bit north of the CWE, but if you're avoiding it, you're missing out. I'm not sure how old you are, but there are a quite a few cool bars and restaurants in the area. There's a reason the home prices in the area are insane, it's a desirable area.

Besides for those that live in St. Charles, I'm sure most would prefer Chesterfield to St. Chuck, but there's also a huge price disparity between living in the two, not to mention St. Charles being further out (which plays into the price).

[The Mad Crapper]

all depends on where your company's office is located. Any idea where their office is?

Goodfellow Blvd.

[Bewbies]

If you hate traffic Des Moines is good. You're literally 15 minutes from anywhere from any point in the city, regardless of time of day.

[The Mad Crapper]

If you hate traffic Des Moines is good. You're literally 15 minutes from anywhere from any point in the city, regardless of time of day.

Cool.

Universities and colleges?

[Frazod]

Iowa. Stay the fuck out of Missouri.

[Iowanian]

Drake is in DM, ISU is 30 minutes north in Ames.

[King_Chief_Fan]

My employer might have an opportunity in both of these cities. I'm a northeast guy, I know very little about the midwest. I know most of the posters here live out there.

So convince me one way or the other. Thanks.

Cardinals baseball........your choice is St. Louis.

I lived in Iowa, it sucks.

[Predarat]

St Louis does have Barnes, so if you or your family gets sick, it is a kickass hospital.

[Bowser]

Drake is in DM, ISU is 30 minutes north in Ames.

Yep. Wife went to Drake, said she loved it.

[Rams Fan]

St. Louis has Wash U. and SLU.

[Bewbies]

Cardinals baseball........your choice is St. Louis.

I lived in Iowa, it sucks.

I grew up in Des Moines. Graduated from good ol Roosevelt high. Have to say, I have no intention of ever moving back.

But, I've never been impressed with St Louis though. I'd probably lean that way just because it's bigger. I live in Atlanta now, and there's a lot to be said about having so much more to do in a larger place.

[Iowanian]

Go spend a long weekend in both cities.

[The Mad Crapper]

Go spend a long weekend in both cities.

I think I'll do that. :thumb:

[Iowanian]

Let me know when you'll be in DM and I'll help you set up your iowa tour and help find out what is going on.

[The Mad Crapper]

Let me know when you'll be in DM and I'll help you set up your iowa tour and help find out what is going on.

Thanks alot! I will.

[seclark]

if you drive from one city to the other, you'll go within a half mile of my place. give me a heads up and you can stop, stretch your legs and have a beer.
sec

[Skyy God]

I like space too. I don't want to see my neighbors. I like to ride motorcycles. My wife and daughter like jeeps.

What about gun laws? About the same?

You're probably better off in DM, if those are your main concerns.

[dirk digler]

I have been to both and Des Moines is kind of boring.

[The Mad Crapper]

if you drive from one city to the other, you'll go within a half mile of my place. give me a heads up and you can stop, stretch your legs and have a beer.
sec

Beer?

I can do that! Thanks!

[The Mad Crapper]

I have been to both and Des Moines is kind of boring.

I need some tranquility.

[The Mad Crapper]

You're probably better off in DM, if those are your main concerns.

Yeah it does seem to be calling my name.

[Rams Fan]

You know you want to be in St. Louis, TMC. :D

Chesterfield and St. Charles are nice.

[dirk digler]

I need some tranquility.

Then I would go there. If you can take a weekend trip. The one positive is you will be saving a lot of money because the cost of living is pretty good in the MW.

[vailpass]

I like space too. I don't want to see my neighbors. I like to ride motorcycles. My wife and daughter like jeeps.What about gun laws? About the same?

Des Moines X100
St. Louis *shudder*

[The Mad Crapper]

You know you want to be in St. Louis, TMC. :D

Chesterfield and St. Charles are nice.

Frazod was mean to me.

[kc rush]

I prefer Des Moines, but the winters suck.

St Louis offers more to do, but if you are looking for tranquility DSM is your choice.

[-King-]

I would never move to Iowa if I had a choice. I'd rather live in Oakland.

[vailpass]

I would never move to Iowa if I had a choice. I'd rather live in Oakland.

Such a loss for the people of Iowa, yet somehow I think they will persevere.

[-King-]

Such a loss for the people of Iowa, yet somehow I think they will persevere.

Yah sure.

[Bowser]

I know for sure that Iowa is much cheaper to live in than Nebraska is. Nebraska's taxes are freaking outrageous.

[Jewish Rabbi]

People who are saying Des Moines is expensive/heavily taxed are talking out of their ass. Cheap as hell to live there, and there are plenty of nice places to live (Urbandale, West Des Moines, Ankeny, Waukee, hell even the country if that's your thing and you want to drive a bit.) True, St. Louis obviously has more to offer being a bigger city, but it's not like you can't find something to do in Des Moines. As far as schooling, you're ~1/2 hour from Iowa State, and two hours from both Iowa and UNI. Drake is in Des Moines, but is expensive as hell unless you get some major scholarships. Ultimately it comes down to what you prefer for your style of living.

[luv]

If I had to choose, I'd choose St Louis. However, I'm single with no children. If I had a family, I would probably choose Des Moines.

[Bugeater]

It would be Des Moines for me, no question. Now if it were ANY other city in Missouri, I'd go there.

[stlchiefs]

Goodfellow Blvd.

That's actually in St. Louis City, which mean you're going to be paying an earnings tax of 1%. This applies to anyone that works or lives in the city. If you are considering STL you should take a quick look at the boundaries. St. Louis (city) is really small, not much more than the downtown area and this is what gives STL a bad crime rap (where does the majority of crime occur, urban areas, now divide that by the small size of the "city" and "St. Louis" looks like a bad place to live). What people really consider St. Louis is a combination of the city and county, this area is much larger, with the county consisting of 92 municipalities.

For your situation, if you want space, you're going to be in West County or St. Charles County, either way these are in the suburbs and are a bit of a drive to downtown. Trust me, you won't be the only one headed this direction either (traffic). Just trying to give you an honest opinion of things.

As someone else mentioned, definitely visit both for a weekend. Feel free to PM me if you want some more info on STL.

[Okie_Apparition]

St. Louis has a version of Mardi Gras every year. But is really a parade for closet homosexuals who's rainbow is only half out. They tip cows in Des Moines. They tip them in delious horseradish.

[Chief Henry]

If you don't mind a 30-45 minute drive. DSM area has several nice towns of less than 10,000 people in total population. Hop on a 4 lane and your drive is nothing more than a cup of coffee away. You can get an awesome home in one of these towns for < $180 K
For a little more you could get some acres with your home and run your four wheelers to your hearts content.

Lots of nice eating joints in DSM. too.

[crazycoffey]

I live in a loft downtown and have never once felt threatened in any of the many times I've stumbled home from the bars. St. Louis is like every metro area; some really nice areas and then areas you stay away from. Choose the former and not the latter and you'll be just fine.

Same here, we live in Soulard. Hear a bad story now and again, but it's more like any other place. The bad areas are pretty bad, but are really good at self containment to those areas.

I have also lived in Webster Groves and Kirkwood (kirkwood is where jeremy maclin went to HS), nicer areas that aren't the cheapest places to live, but if you look hard enough you could find a decent house and still be close to work instead of going so far into west county. Plus they both have the small town feel.

Afton is another good choice, not as snobby as Kirkwood or WG, and the school system is still good. Clayton is exactly like a second downtown, newer and better. But still a downtown feel.

I have friends and family that live more out west county, Ballwin, st. charles, etc. Good houses, more affordable, but soooo many people are doing that, and if you work a 8-5 type job, you are going to loathe the drive to and from work.

There are so many choices to small suburb areas of St. Louis

[crazycoffey]

St. Louis has a version of Mardi Gras every year. But is really a parade for closet homosexuals who's rainbow is only half out. They tip cows in Des Moines. They tip them in delious horseradish.

The parade goes by two blocks from my current address and we usually have a Mardi Gras Party. I don't know what's gay about a tout hurricane, cajun cooking, and my wife and her friends having a competition about who can earn the most beads for the day, hanging their tits out our windows....

[Rams Fan]

The parade goes by two blocks from my current address and we usually have a Mardi Gras Party. I don't know what's gay about a tout hurricane, cajun cooking, and my wife and her friends having a competition about who can earn the most beads for the day, hanging their tits out our windows....

You live in Soulard, don't ya?

[2112]

Thanks for the feedback. I know St. Louis is rough, I certainly wouldn't live in the city proper.

What I'm looking for is a comparison of car insurance rates, tax rates, food and income taxes etc. Basically the cost of living. Is it about the same?
I have been to st louis a few times. it is a fun town..and the burbs are cheap along with everything else. I was in u city and played around in the loop and that italian area called the hill or some shit.

The only thing is there are a lot of serbians there..lol

Never been to des moines..but Bugeater has pics of some crab shack there that I wouldnt mind visiting.

[2112]

The parade goes by two blocks from my current address and we usually have a Mardi Gras Party. I don't know what's gay about a tout hurricane, cajun cooking, and my wife and her friends having a competition about who can earn the most beads for the day, hanging their tits out our windows....
St Louis has the 2nd biggest mardi gras next to NOLA.

[patteeu]

St. Louis is the bigger, more easternish (to a small degree) city so you might like that. My main reason for choosing St. Louis would be a milder winter.

[patteeu]

Nice.

How about the weather? About the same? My wife is TERRIFIED of tornados.

Don't worry about tornados in either place. They are small so even if one hits your city the chances it will impact you in any way are very slim. Just don't live in a trailer and you'll be fine. Most houses have basements where you can seek shelter of it comes to that.

[crazycoffey]

You live in Soulard, don't ya?
:thumb:


St Louis has the 2nd biggest mardi gras next to NOLA.

yup, and I've been to the last 4 now, even in cold it's still fun. Last year was a bit odd, I was home for three weeks, but what a three week period, Superbowl, V-Day, Wife's Birthday, Mardi Gras, Fat Tuesday. ahh, the memories.

[Donger]

I was in St. Louis this week. It hasn't improved.

[crazycoffey]

I was in St. Louis this week. It hasn't improved.

It did after you left

[Donger]

It did after you left

LMAO

[patteeu]

If you really want to live where you can't see your neighbors (a good thing IMO), and if you think you can handle the winters, I'd say Des Moines is the better bet. One thing about St. Louis is that the metro area is contained on three sides (more or less) by rivers. That means that if you live east, north, or (more likely) west of the city far enough out to have elbow room, you're going to have hella traffic to contend with (at least by Midwest standards). I think you'll be able to get more of what you want, for less, closer to work if you choose DM. You sacrifice a little big city convenience and a slightly milder winter.

[niblet]

Just to counter what someone else said, I grew up in Des Moines and would love to move back after my education is complete (the south side or the western part of Des Moines proper, not West Des Moines--which makes me gag.)

[Okie_Apparition]

You must check that the house you buy is NOT in a flood plain in the mid-west. St. Louis is worse because it will be sewage. When you go to Mardi Gras in St. Louis in 32 degree weather and the ladies nipples ARE NOT errect. They may be trannies, just saying.

[threebag]

Eat two scrabble tiles. One an S for St Louis. The other a D for Des Moines. Eat a shit load of tacos. Go with the first one you pass.

[alnorth]

The prior comments about traffic in Des Moines are correct. There is virtually no traffic, unless something crazy happens or during the state fair. It is pretty easy to drive everywhere in the area.

Gun laws that I know of: need a permit to buy a new handgun, pretty easy to get. CCW requires a training class and about a 30-day wait in Polk county.

The winter can get rough, but if you are from the northeast you are probably used to that.

Politics: Your TV will get swamped with more ads then you are probably used to, especially when the Iowa caucus is coming up. Lots of national politicians come to DSM all the time.

[Oxford]

Cost of living index and median incomes are pretty close according to Kiplingers in May 2010.

StL 87
DesMoines 90

Median incomes in the 52-55k range

[RJ]

Shitster, I'm going to go waaaaaay out on a limb here and say I think you'd like Des Moines more than you'd like St. Louis. Call it a gut feeling.

[Hoover]

The prior comments about traffic in Des Moines are correct. There is virtually no traffic, unless something crazy happens or during the state fair. It is pretty easy to drive everywhere in the area.

Gun laws that I know of: need a permit to buy a new handgun, pretty easy to get. CCW requires a training class and about a 30-day wait in Polk county.

The winter can get rough, but if you are from the northeast you are probably used to that.

Politics: Your TV will get swamped with more ads then you are probably used to, especially when the Iowa caucus is coming up. Lots of national politicians come to DSM all the time.

Traffic isn't much. I just built near Ankeny, I drive straight into downtown every day.

Gun laws - we are now a shall issue state!

Winter isn't that bad. Sure it sucks for a couple months, but I'll deal with the cold over being in a overpopulated city like STL that sucks.

Politics - Its awesome if you like presidential politics.

[Hoover]

You can be my neighbor if you like.

http://www.iowarealty.com/buying/detail_ml.asp?list_numb=373761&location=Ankeny&handicappedfeatures=&low_list_price=400000&beds_total=&high_list_price=450000&full_baths_num=&acreS=&garage=&type_home=RESIDENT,%20ACREAGES&new_listings_days=&search_list.x=15&search_list.y=14&search_list=List&

[Rams Fan]

Sure it sucks for a couple months, but I'll deal with the cold over being in a overpopulated city like STL that sucks.


St. Louis really isn't overpopulated. The city has 300,000 people. It's the 'burbs that have a lot of people.

[Prodigal Son]

Sounds like Des Moines is a better fit for you. Maybe the best thing about Des Moines is that you can live in an urban setting if you want, suburban, or completely rural, and afford any of those three and be within half-hour of work with any of those three. Probably the most surprising thing about Des Moines is how good the dining options are for such a small city. And the locally-grown food is the best in the U.S. with great beef, dairy, tomatoes and veggies, sweet corn, etc.

The winters are horrible, but I'd rather have Des Moines winter + Des Moines traffic than St. Louis winter (which isn't a picnic either) + St. Louis traffic.

The sports offerings in Des Moines suck compared to St. Louis. It's the ultimate AAA town, with AAA baseball (I-Cubs) and minor league hockey and an NBA D-League team.

Iowa has I believe the highest per capita concentration of private colleges in the nation. There are around 100 colleges and universities in Iowa, some of which are very good (Grinnell College is world-class).

St. Louis is urban sprawl, so it kind of has a big-city feel but also kind of doesn't. It's hard to explain, but it's nothing like New York or L.A. KIND OF like Chicago but not really that either. I personally don't like the feel of St. Louis. It's like you're never really in a big city but never really out of it either. Just a mouse in a maze. Good luck.

[RealSNR]

Man, the people who say Des Moines winters are brutal are a bunch of wimps

[Pushead2]

My employer might have an opportunity in both of these cities. I'm a northeast guy, I know very little about the midwest. I know most of the posters here live out there.

So convince me one way or the other. Thanks.

you're in jersey or LI or the boroughs

[alnorth]

Gun laws - we are now a shall issue state!

Yep, though from what I read, Polk county has basically always been shall issue. The sheriff apparently believes in CCW and handed out permits before the new law, they just take a long time to check whatever databases they check.

Kinda funny that several tiny counties around Iowa never handed out CCW permits because their sheriffs didn't believe in it, but it was pretty easy to get in Des Moines, thus the new law.

[Simply Red]

damn - switch professions. :p

[Simply Red]

Cost of living index and median incomes are pretty close according to Kiplingers in May 2010.

StL 87
DesMoines 90

Median incomes in the 52-55k range

STL looks really bad right now - I was commenting to OTWP about how bad it has become, and run down looking. Iowa wouldn't be so bad. Lots of Scandinavian bitches up there around Iowa.

[kc rush]

Man, the people who say Des Moines winters are brutal are a bunch of wimps

I did one full winter in DSM and that was enough (I hate the cold). My inlaws, who all were born, raised and still live in Des Moines hate the winters there too.

[Simply Red]

Man, the people who say Des Moines winters are brutal are a bunch of wimps

no no no no no - I was EASILY the coldest EVER - pheasant hunting w/ pops in Aimes, Iowa. My tears were freezing - as was my snot, it was beautiful.

[Baby Lee]

Whereabout in St. Louis would your work center be? That'd help with recommendation.

Re: the dangerous city part, St. Louis is one of the most bifurcated cities I've seen. In the urban areas, vast wealth sits right next to hellholes. Take the intersection of Kingshighway and Delmar, to the north is the start of the 'MLK corridor'* and just across the street to the south are huge mansions, temples and synagogues, leading into the Barnes-Jewish metropolis. Same thing on a smaller scale on The Loop, the neighborhood on the north side of The Loop can get rough, while the neighborhood a block away on the south side is gated with huge residences.

Go south or go west, or cross the river to Alton or Edwardsville if you wanna go north/east. Basically, if you cross the river, don't stop 'till you reach the bluffs.



* copyright Chris Rock

[J Diddy]

no no no no no - I was EASILY the coldest EVER - pheasant hunting w/ pops in Aimes, Iowa. My tears were freezing - as was my snot, it was beautiful.


Just out of curiousity, what would make you cry? Did your dad shoot you?

[Dave Lane]

My employer might have an opportunity in both of these cities. I'm a northeast guy, I know very little about the midwest. I know most of the posters here live out there.

So convince me one way or the other. Thanks.

You have a job? You'll have to convince me of that fact first.

[RealSNR]

no no no no no - I was EASILY the coldest EVER - pheasant hunting w/ pops in Aimes, Iowa. My tears were freezing - as was my snot, it was beautiful.One year when I was a freshman in high school it was -20 that morning. I had to go outside, warm up the car, and chip frost off the windows before driving to school. On top of that, the night before we got a call from the vet's office that my cat, who had gone in for emergency surgery that day had passed away. I didn't sleep that night and was crying the entire morning even when I was outside.

Boy, that's fun. Chipping ice and crying at the same time as your tears freeze to your face. For 15 minutes.

And even on that day, it wasn't the coldest I've ever been. Faaaar from it. It's an insult to The Mad Crapper's masculinity and his testicles to claim that he might find Des Moines winters to be cold.

Sheesh.

[BucEyedPea]

Cool.

Universities and colleges?
University of Iowa !!!!

[Jewish Rabbi]

STL looks really bad right now - I was commenting to OTWP about how bad it has become, and run down looking. Iowa wouldn't be so bad. Lots of Scandinavian bitches up there around Iowa.

If by Scandinavians you mean Bosniaks.

[Rams Fan]

STL looks really bad right now - I was commenting to OTWP about how bad it has become, and run down looking. Iowa wouldn't be so bad. Lots of Scandinavian bitches up there around Iowa.

STL looks really bad? Some parts, yes, but the city has gone under some renovation. A few thousand people actually moved to the city in 2010.

[The Mad Crapper]

Shitster, I'm going to go waaaaaay out on a limb here and say I think you'd like Des Moines more than you'd like St. Louis. Call it a gut feeling.

Yeah I hear ya.

[The Mad Crapper]

You can be my neighbor if you like.

http://www.iowarealty.com/buying/detail_ml.asp?list_numb=373761&location=Ankeny&handicappedfeatures=&low_list_price=400000&beds_total=&high_list_price=450000&full_baths_num=&acreS=&garage=&type_home=RESIDENT,%20ACREAGES&new_listings_days=&search_list.x=15&search_list.y=14&search_list=List&

You drink?

[The Mad Crapper]

you're in jersey or LI or the boroughs

Hudson County NJ.

[stlchiefs]

St. Louis has a version of Mardi Gras every year. But is really a parade for closet homosexuals who's rainbow is only half out. They tip cows in Des Moines. They tip them in delious horseradish.

Mardi Gras parade is this weekend. You have your spandex ready?