Intruder calls 911, afraid homeowner may have gun

[Deberg_1990]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/08/oregon.intruder.911/index.html?hpt=T2



This time it was the intruder who called 911.

A man who broke into a house in Portland, Oregon, called police -- afraid the homeowner may have a gun.

The suspect, Timothy James Chapek, was in the bathroom taking a shower when the homeowner returned to the house Monday night, Portland police said in a statement.

Accompanied by two German shepherds, the homeowner asked Chapek what he was doing in the house.

Chapek locked himself in the bathroom and made an emergency call, police said. He said he had broken into the house, the owner had come home, and that he was concerned the owner might have a gun.

The homeowner also called the police to report that he had found a man in the house.

Police with dogs took Chapek, 24, into custody "without incident," they said. He was booked for criminal trespass.

They did not say if the homeowner did in fact have a gun.

[Bwana]

Nice ROFL

[big nasty kcnut]

dude that guy a loser. The homeowner should of showed him if he had a gun.

[Stanley Nickels]

Ah, Portlandia.

[WV]

They should have tazed him for being such a dumbass bitch.

[Dayze]

if it were me, he wouldn't have had the chance to call 911.

[Sofa King]

Shoulda burned the house down.

[tooge]

shoulda flushed all the toilets and scalded his ass in the shower.

[Lonewolf Ed]

I'd have gotten my axe and chopped through the door and did my best Jack Nicholson impression... Heerrrrrre's Johnny! By the time the cops got there, that punk would be crying like a baby.

[MOhillbilly]

if it were me, he wouldn't have had the chance to call 911.

youd just shoot a motherfucker for bein in your home? Helluva thing to kill a man.

[REDHOTGTO]

dude just wanted to clean up man
seriuosly i dont think he'd have time to call 911 in my house, my dauschaund woulda knawed him in half !

[Dayze]

youd just shoot a motherfucker for bein in your home? Helluva thing to kill a man.

yep.
Granted my statement was sort of a blanet one, considering we don't know all the details of that particular situation etc. But, by in large,I'm not going to negotiate with a peson that's in my house.
I have no idea what their intentions are (theft, rape, murder etc), and I'm not going to let my guard down.

My luck, I'd call the cops on him and he'd pull out a gun and pop me instead.

[BWillie]

youd just shoot a mother****er for bein in your home? Helluva thing to kill a man.

It's really sad how many people actually would like to kill a man in cold blood. I mean there are many times where I would support that, but just wanting to blow someone's head off for just being in your home without regards to the situation is dumb. That Joe Horn case is one of the saddest cases out there.

[tooge]

maybe he was new to town and just wanted to hang out and get a beer with you. Give him your number after he is cleaned up and have him call you

[Over-Head]

ROFL what a man, break and shower gets him 3-5

[Bwana]

youd just shoot a mother****er for bein in your home? Helluva thing to kill a man.

Under those conditions, I likely wouldn't, but I would kick his ass. Now if someone breaks in at night, that's a different story. Boom boom, out go the lights.

[Dayze]

Under those conditions, I likely wouldn't, but I would kick his ass. Now if someone breaks in at night, that's a different story. Boom boom, out go the lights.

yeah, that's where I was going with my statement as well.

my statement was probably a little too generic for the situation etc.

[MOhillbilly]

Itchy trigger finger for sure. But youd really have to be fuckin up on my place to get culled. Day or night.

[siberian khatru]

That Joe Horn case is one of the saddest cases out there.

I thought you were talking about the ex-Chiefs and Saints WR. I was thinking, "Wow, how did I miss Joe shooting someone? First he screws Willie Roaf's wife, then he blows some dude away."

But I looked it up and now I see what you're referencing. :)

[Predarat]

That Quanell X guy is an idiot. I don't see how that Joe Horn case is sad at all, he did the right thing. I don't want to kill anyone in cold blood but if someone is breaking in/intruding on someone elses property they get what they get. You never know what they are going to do.

[kcfanXIII]

Simple, you break in my house, you probably won't leave on your own. Im not waiting around to find out what you are doing there. 9mm beats 911 Everytime.

[MOhillbilly]

Any of you guys ever been in a situation to possibly shoot a man? The complexity of those situations should boogle your mind. Once you pull that trigger you cant take it back.

[kcfanXIII]

Any of you guys ever been in a situation to possibly shoot a man? The complexity of those situations should boogle your mind. Once you pull that trigger you cant take it back.

no i haven't. And Im not saying i would in every situation. But when it comes to protecting my family and home its a no brainer. People don't break in to say hi.

[Sofa King]

no i haven't. And Im not saying i would in every situation. But when it comes to protecting my family and home its a no brainer. People don't break in to say hi.

I did that once.


i got shot.

[MOhillbilly]

no i haven't. And Im not saying i would in every situation. But when it comes to protecting my family and home its a no brainer. People don't break in to say hi.

Lady was standing in my grandmas kitchen onetime. Jumped out of a car and ran to the first house she could find. middle of the night.

[bowener]

Shoulda rigged 4 tons of TNT and blowed the whole damn house to smithereens!! That'd show em!!

[Predarat]

Any of you guys ever been in a situation to possibly shoot a man? The complexity of those situations should boogle your mind. Once you pull that trigger you cant take it back.

That is true, and it is a tough, complex situation, but we should always have a right to protect ourselves, family, ect from intruders. You never know what they are going to do, its a tough situation.

[Radar Chief]

no i haven't. And Im not saying i would in every situation. But when it comes to protecting my family and home its a no brainer. People don't break in to say hi.

I understand what you're saying. I’m a believer in “better judged by 12 than carried by 6” but MO is talking wisdom here.
Besides, once the guy retreated to the bathroom, locked the door and started pleading for the cops to come save him it’s fairly obvious he’s not much of a threat. In that case you stand guard over the door until the cops arrive and let them handle it from there.

[WV]

He at least deserved to be pistol whipped.....break into my house and expect pain unless your a little kid. No excuse otherwise. A grown person should expect to be either shot or at least beaten to a pulp for breaking into someone's house.

His first hint that he shouldn't have been there was the fact that he had to break in....after that he's lost all rights in my house.

[RNR]

He at least deserved to be pistol whipped.....break into my house and expect pain unless your a little kid. No excuse otherwise. A grown person should expect to be either shot or at least beaten to a pulp for breaking into someone's house.

His first hint that he shouldn't have been there was the fact that he had to break in....after that he's lost all rights in my house.

Agreed~

[kcfanXIII]

He at least deserved to be pistol whipped.....break into my house and expect pain unless your a little kid. No excuse otherwise. A grown person should expect to be either shot or at least beaten to a pulp for breaking into someone's house.

His first hint that he shouldn't have been there was the fact that he had to break in....after that he's lost all rights in my house.

this. I don't care what circumstances you think justify breaking into someone else's home but there are none. If you have to break in, you will be perceived as a threat. And i will protect my property.

[gblowfish]

Looks like the dude was getting practice at dropping the soap....

[Fish]

no i haven't. And Im not saying i would in every situation. But when it comes to protecting my family and home its a no brainer. People don't break in to say hi.

Yes, but what if it wasn't a break in at all? Say it's a drunk idiot thinking your house is his. That's happened to me before back in the day, and I've been told by a neighbor that I did the same thing on a drunken bender. Say it's a handicapped teenager who's lost and doesn't know any better. Lots of situations I can think of where shooting first would ruin somebody or some family's lives.

[warrior]

He sounds pretty dumb, must be a raiders fan.

[kcfanXIII]

Yes, but what if it wasn't a break in at all? Say it's a drunk idiot thinking your house is his. That's happened to me before back in the day, and I've been told by a neighbor that I did the same thing on a drunken bender. Say it's a handicapped teenager who's lost and doesn't know any better. Lots of situations I can think of where shooting first would ruin somebody or some family's lives.

If you are drunk enough to walk in somebody elses house you need to quit drinking. I've been pretty drunk and never that stupid. Seriously how dumb do you have to be to do that? And for every what if you come up with ill come up with 10 more likely scenarios. Thieves murderers rapists, these are people that break in. I keep my doors locked so your mistaken entry theories are thrown out the window. I don't care how drunk you are, the key didn't work and that should be a sign. its also far more likely they are breaking in to commit a crime. I suppose you think criminals who get attacked by dogs or slip on your stairs have a right to sue? No... You break in to my house and you will wish for a trial by jury.

[listopencil]

Any of you guys ever been in a situation to possibly shoot a man? The complexity of those situations should boggle your mind. Once you pull that trigger you cant take it back.

I agree.

[tooge]

If you are drunk enough to walk in somebody elses house you need to quit drinking. I've been pretty drunk and never that stupid. Seriously how dumb do you have to be to do that? And for every what if you come up with ill come up with 10 more likely scenarios. Thieves murderers rapists, these are people that break in. I keep my doors locked so your mistaken entry theories are thrown out the window. I don't care how drunk you are, the key didn't work and that should be a sign. its also far more likely they are breaking in to commit a crime. I suppose you think criminals who get attacked by dogs or slip on your stairs have a right to sue? No... You break in to my house and you will wish for a trial by jury.

I think most of us agree that if you are awakened by someone breaking into your house, you should get the gun and check it out. But, this was different. Once he found out the guy was in the bathroom shiting himself out of fear, then there is no need to go blasing through the door. Standing guard till the cops get there was a wise decision.

[Predarat]

I think most of us agree that if you are awakened by someone breaking into your house, you should get the gun and check it out. But, this was different. Once he found out the guy was in the bathroom shiting himself out of fear, then there is no need to go blasing through the door. Standing guard till the cops get there was a wise decision.

He did the right thing but how often does someone break into someone elses house to just take a shower?

[tooge]

He did the right thing but how often does someone break into someone elses house to just take a shower?

probably not very often. Bottom line is this; if you break into someone elses house, that person is gonna be pumpin some major adrenaline if they find you there, and there is a fair chance you will get shot, beat up, stabbed, etc. If you are a homeowner and someone breaks into your house, you will be pumped up on adrenaline, as will they, and it will be very difficult for you to exercise good judgement, but you should try to or you will end up in court.

[KC native]

Any of you guys ever been in a situation to possibly shoot a man? The complexity of those situations should boogle your mind. Once you pull that trigger you cant take it back.

Come on MO, you know this is CP where everyone runs 4.4 40 yd dashes, has 9" dicks, and are cold blooded home defending life takers.

Most people won't pull the trigger. They panic and freeze.

[kcfanXIII]

I think most of us agree that if you are awakened by someone breaking into your house, you should get the gun and check it out. But, this was different. Once he found out the guy was in the bathroom shiting himself out of fear, then there is no need to go blasing through the door. Standing guard till the cops get there was a wise decision.

I might be misreading some posts but it sounds like a bunch of panzies telling me that i shouldn't act instinctively because it might be some drunk degenerate who couldnt figure out why his key wasn't working.

And i get its not as easy to pull the trigger as im making it sound. But like ive said, in a situation where my or my family's life is in danger i WILL protect them.

[Fish]

If you are drunk enough to walk in somebody elses house you need to quit drinking. I've been pretty drunk and never that stupid. Seriously how dumb do you have to be to do that? And for every what if you come up with ill come up with 10 more likely scenarios. Thieves murderers rapists, these are people that break in. I keep my doors locked so your mistaken entry theories are thrown out the window. I don't care how drunk you are, the key didn't work and that should be a sign. its also far more likely they are breaking in to commit a crime. I suppose you think criminals who get attacked by dogs or slip on your stairs have a right to sue? No... You break in to my house and you will wish for a trial by jury.

Obviously you look for the worst in situations like that. OK then. Blast away. You're reaching pretty far up your ass though with your "criminal's right to sue" comment.... But I suppose it's a byproduct of living in constant fear of thieves, murderers, and rapists...

Wait... was that a knock at the door? Better give em a warning shot just in case....

[Jenson71]

Usually when I'm really drunk, I laugh and tell jokes. Strangers invite me into their homes.

[kcfanXIII]

Obviously you look for the worst in situations like that. OK then. Blast away. You're reaching pretty far up your ass though with your "criminal's right to sue" comment.... But I suppose it's a byproduct of living in constant fear of thieves, murderers, and rapists...

Wait... was that a knock at the door? Better give em a warning shot just in case....

Once again.. Criminals don't knock. I don't live in constant fear. I understand most people aren't criminals in this world. But most that break in to homes are criminals. If you can't make that distinction you are an idiot.

[Jenson71]

I think that the reactions are going to vary depending on whether you have small children or not.

For those who don't have small children, I think most of them would say that they would hesitate to shoot an intruder or be a lot more likely to work it out peacefully. But for those who do have small children, many of them might want the intruder to take the children and then leave peacefully.

[orange]

I'm thinking almost all of you must live completely alone or else there are going to be a lot of dead houseguests let in by other residents.

Or maybe a lot of you are just FOS.

{placeholder for pending "Internet Tough Guy" picture}

[Fish]

Once again.. Criminals don't knock. I don't live in constant fear. I understand most people aren't criminals in this world. But most that break in to homes are criminals. If you can't make that distinction you are an idiot.

Yeah.... I'm an idiot for suggesting a somewhat cautious approach.... meanwhile triggerhappy paranoid people continue to accidentally kill others because they can't make the distinction you just described...

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/03/TampaBay/Man_killed_as_he_ente.shtml

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/musicnightlife/2009501190_twisp20m.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18380435/detail.html

http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2001-08-08/news/export35963_1_adrian-bal-kil-koh-glendale-police

http://www.9wsyr.com/mostpopular/story/Wife-of-shot-Buffalo-intruder-files-lawsuit/Ng2gRnSkV0amxLiMVyBu3w.cspx

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4993293.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/24143425/detail.html

http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=82939

http://www.wbrz.com/news/man-improving-after-being-shot-entering-wrong-house

[WV]

I'm amazed at the amount of people that would be ok with someone breaking into their home. Hell, do you even lock your doors at night....I bet 1% of the time those pesky burglars are just there to take a dump and a shower. Let's invite them to hold hands, sing kumbaya, and start them a savings account.

He was in the guys house using his shower for crying out loud....excuse me if I don't buy the whole gee, I didn't know this wasn't my house....well except my underwear drawer isn't where it's supposed to be, that's not my brand of soap, and hell this toilet doesn't feel right????

How many of you believe had the guy not gotten home and caught him that the poor misguided criminal would have just tidied up his mess and left without stealing anything???

[Easy 6]

Helluva thing to kill a man.

... ya take all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have.

[Radar Chief]

I might be misreading some posts but it sounds like a bunch of panzies telling me that i shouldn't act instinctively because it might be some drunk degenerate who couldnt figure out why his key wasn't working.

And i get its not as easy to pull the trigger as im making it sound. But like ive said, in a situation where my or my family's life is in danger i WILL protect them.

I haven’t reread this entire thread but the prevailing opinion I get from it isn’t people saying they wouldn’t use deadly force to protect their families, or that you should but rather that this situation didn’t necessarily warrant the use of deadly force.

[kcfanXIII]

Yeah.... I'm an idiot for suggesting a somewhat cautious approach.... meanwhile triggerhappy paranoid people continue to accidentally kill others because they can't make the distinction you just described...

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/03/TampaBay/Man_killed_as_he_ente.shtml

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/musicnightlife/2009501190_twisp20m.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18380435/detail.html

http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2001-08-08/news/export35963_1_adrian-bal-kil-koh-glendale-police

http://www.9wsyr.com/mostpopular/story/Wife-of-shot-Buffalo-intruder-files-lawsuit/Ng2gRnSkV0amxLiMVyBu3w.cspx

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4993293.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/24143425/detail.html

http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=82939

http://www.wbrz.com/news/man-improving-after-being-shot-entering-wrong-house

Look. Im not paranoid. Im not trigger happy. I have roommates and never drawn on any of them. Im not advocating firing blindly into darkness. What Im saying is i have a right to protect myself. And i will.

Forgive me for not clicking all the links, Im on my phone, and it would take an hour to load all your links. I don't blame anyone for perceiving an intruder as a threat though. Im sure if i had my pc i could find some stats backing up my argument that most people who are shot while in someone else's house are there with criminal intent.

[Predarat]

Look. Im not paranoid. Im not trigger happy. I have roommates and never drawn on any of them. Im not advocating firing blindly into darkness. What Im saying is i have a right to protect myself. And i will.

Forgive me for not clicking all the links, Im on my phone, and it would take an hour to load all your links. I don't blame anyone for perceiving an intruder as a threat though. Im sure if i had my pc i could find some stats backing up my argument that most people who are shot while in someone else's house are there with criminal intent.

At least half of those links contain a statement similar to "the intruder came at the owner in an aggressive manner" basicly forcing the owner into a "Him or me" situation. Most of those owners had every reason to shoot, even though that would be tough to live with they did not have much of a choice.

[Just Passin' By]

Yeah.... I'm an idiot for suggesting a somewhat cautious approach.... meanwhile triggerhappy paranoid people continue to accidentally kill others because they can't make the distinction you just described...

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/03/TampaBay/Man_killed_as_he_ente.shtml

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/musicnightlife/2009501190_twisp20m.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18380435/detail.html

http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2001-08-08/news/export35963_1_adrian-bal-kil-koh-glendale-police

http://www.9wsyr.com/mostpopular/story/Wife-of-shot-Buffalo-intruder-files-lawsuit/Ng2gRnSkV0amxLiMVyBu3w.cspx

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4993293.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/24143425/detail.html

http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=82939

http://www.wbrz.com/news/man-improving-after-being-shot-entering-wrong-house


You take risks in one direction (waiting to act does entail risk, after all), others will take risks in the other direction. It's not going to always be the 'right' decision either way. Also, some of the links you cited were examples of good shoots.

[Bwana]

The way I see it, if you don't want to get shot, don't break into peoples homes. It's really not all the fucking hard of a concept.

[Sannyasi]

I can sort of see both sides to this one. On one hand people definitely have a right to protect themselves and their families. However, I have an uncle with Alzheimer's and an autistic sister, and I can very easily imagine either of them accidently/unknowingly wandering into the wrong house by mistake. The shoot-first attitude could very easily result in tragedy.

[loochy]

youd just shoot a motherfucker for bein in your home? Helluva thing to kill a man.

It's just talk. You think you know what you'd do, but you can never truly know what kind of things would go through your head until you live it.

[Dayze]

the guy in the article should've taken a shower at Ted Nugent's home.

[ReynardMuldrake]

Yeah.... I'm an idiot for suggesting a somewhat cautious approach.... meanwhile triggerhappy paranoid people continue to accidentally kill others because they can't make the distinction you just described...

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/03/TampaBay/Man_killed_as_he_ente.shtml

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/musicnightlife/2009501190_twisp20m.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18380435/detail.html

http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2001-08-08/news/export35963_1_adrian-bal-kil-koh-glendale-police

http://www.9wsyr.com/mostpopular/story/Wife-of-shot-Buffalo-intruder-files-lawsuit/Ng2gRnSkV0amxLiMVyBu3w.cspx

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4993293.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/24143425/detail.html

http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=82939

http://www.wbrz.com/news/man-improving-after-being-shot-entering-wrong-house

That Seattle one is terrible. Defending your home is one thing, but killing a guy for mistakenly trying the wrong door at a hotel? Plus the poor guy sat and bled for an hour waiting for the paramedics to arrive. Just tragic.

[kcfanXIII]

That Seattle one is terrible. Defending your home is one thing, but killing a guy for mistakenly trying the wrong door at a hotel? Plus the poor guy sat and bled for an hour waiting for the paramedics to arrive. Just tragic.

Hotel is different then your home. Very different. On the other hand its either the intruder or the home owner waiting an hour for help. It can and does take a while for cops to respond to a B&E.

And as for the handicapped and elderly, well my doors are locked so that SHOULD be a sign to even the most confused...

[Phobia]

Come on MO, you know this is CP where everyone runs 4.4 40 yd dashes, has 9" dicks,

Speak for yourself, PeeWee.

[RockChalk]

I would be willing to bet that most of the deaths related to the break-ins above are due to the homeowners not having much practice with their weapons. Just sort of a spray and pray approach it appears.

I keep a loaded Glock .40 under my bed (no children) in the case of a break-in. In the case of a break-in, I'd like to think I could handle shooting below the waist, if I felt shooting was necessary. Now if the intruder has a weapon clearly visible, I will be going straight for the chest.

I also keep a loaded (birdshot) 12 ga. Winchester nearby. But that's only for multiple intruders

[BigRichard]

True story...

I and a couple of other dumb high school kids get invited out to a girls house. She claimed her parents were not going to be home. We show up and no lights are on and we think she just fell asleep so we proceed to go wrap on the girls window to see if we can wake her up.

Turns out the parents were home the dad hears us and comes out a blazin. Lucky for us he couldn't hit a broad side of a barn. I ****ing shit my pants and I tell you what I probably sprinted a mile in under 3 minutes.

He called the cops and reported that he was trying to shoot some guys trying to steal his stuff. Cops found out what actually happened and he got in some shit over it. If he had hit any of us he would have been up for manslaughter and a high school kid would have been dead over nothing.

I guess what I am trying to say is the whole ****ing shoot first and ask questions later line is bullshit. I have no problem with someone shooting someone if there is a danger. But you better be sure there is actual danger and not just some dumb kid or anything else like that.

[Thig Lyfe]

Lots of gangstaz in this thread.

http://panhandleprint.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/icecube-atfirstiwaslike.jpg

[Bane]

I don't think I would have shot the guy and I know its easy for me to say not having been in the situation but in real time I guess anything could have happened.I definitely would have let him know I had one and let him hear me chamber a round just in case he didn't know what it sounded like.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Just Passin' By]

Lots of gangstaz in this thread.

http://panhandleprint.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/icecube-atfirstiwaslike.jpg

It's not gangsta to have a policy of shooting intruders in one's home. It's pretty much why we have the Castle doctrine. Naturally, a few people are deriding the position, and pretending that they can somehow find a 100% safe position.

The problem is that hesitating can get the homeowner killed.

[Xanathol]

Those of you opposed to 'just shooting' someone in your home, please post your full addresses in this thread. Thanks.

[Frazod]

The way I see it, if you don't want to get shot, don't break into peoples homes. It's really not all the fucking hard of a concept.

This. A criminal should have no rights whatsover during the commission of a home invasion.

[MOhillbilly]

you guys need to make sure you understand the castle doctrine. Not just a vague idea but the brass tacs.
I have zero problem killing an intruded who is a danger. none. Shoot them in the face and shoot them again for good measure.

But imo if you have ANY kind of tactical relationship with a weapon, shooting a intruder or suspect on site is a huge over kill that could land you in the pen.

[Just Passin' By]

you guys need to make sure you understand the castle doctrine. Not just a vague idea but the brass tacs.
I have zero problem killing an intruded who is a danger. none. Shoot them in the face and shoot them again for good measure.

But imo if you have ANY kind of tactical relationship with a weapon, shooting as intruder or suspect on site is a huge over kill that could land you in the pen.

Permutations vary state-to-state. The basic concept remains the same.

[MOhillbilly]

Permutations vary state-to-state. The basic concept remains the same.

It does to a point. Doesnt give you shoot first ask questions later rights.

[Bane]

It does to a point. Doesnt give you shoot first ask questions later rights.

Yep and you'd probably be surprised at the number of people that think taking a CCW class gives them a license to kill.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Just Passin' By]

It does to a point. Doesnt give you shoot first ask questions later rights.

Yes, it pretty much can, actually. The extent of that depends upon the state. The key, as is so often the case, is to be found in the interpretation of "reasonable".

Texas is a great example of this.

[salame]

why the fuck was he showering?

[kcfanXIII]

Big Richard... That instance you were outside. Its different inside one's home. Had you and your buddies walked into the home instead of knocking on the window, he would have every right to blow you away. Tragic? yes. Illegal? Absolutely not. And my guess is the old man missed on purpose.

[Fish]

you guys need to make sure you understand the castle doctrine. Not just a vague idea but the brass tacs.
I have zero problem killing an intruded who is a danger. none. Shoot them in the face and shoot them again for good measure.

But imo if you have ANY kind of tactical relationship with a weapon, shooting a intruder or suspect on site is a huge over kill that could land you in the pen.

Exactly. By all means.. shoot the shit out of a dangerous intruder.

The entire point of the arguments in this thread is that you better be damn sure of the situation once you make that decision. As the links and the stories in this thread have pointed out.... lots of people fail in that decision making process and end up shooting somebody that wasn't actually intending to do them harm. Just a few posts back, a high schooler got shot at just because of the home owner's daughter inviting him to the house. Had that homeowner been a better aim, he'd likely be in prison with an unnecessary death on his conscience.. Hard to continue to protect your family when you're in prison.

The internet tough guys act like it's an easy clear cut thing, to be in position to take another man's life in the heat of the moment.

[Jenson71]

The internet tough guys act like it's an easy clear cut thing, to be in position to take another man's life in the heat of the moment.

It's a tough thing to do. And it's even tougher to get the blood stains out of your carpet.

[Radar Chief]

why the **** was he showering?

:shrug: PCP? I’ve heard it makes the body over heat that’s why most guys you see on those Cops shows hopped up on PCP are naked and looking for water to bath in.

[MOhillbilly]

Yes, it pretty much does, actually. The extent of that depends upon the state. The key, as is so often the case, if to be found in "reasonable".

Texas is a great example of this.

try that shit in missouri and the jury might you hand your some prison time. Im not talkin outta my ass. My brother, stone solid, is a sheriff and gave the the straight breakdown.
you shoot a motherfucker in missouri, in your home, without provocation, your ass could land in jail.

noone believes in 'pay to play' more than i do. But in these situations there are two sides to the coin.

[BigRichard]

Big Richard... That instance you were outside. Its different inside one's home. Had you and your buddies walked into the home instead of knocking on the window, he would have every right to blow you away. Tragic? yes. Illegal? Absolutely not. And my guess is the old man missed on purpose.

We were invited by the girl so no he would have had no right to do so... according to the cops anyway.

[Just Passin' By]

try that shit in missouri and the jury might you hand your some prison time. Im not talkin outta my ass. My brother, stone solid, is a sheriff and gave the the straight breakdown.
you shoot a mother****er in missouri, in your home, without provocation, your ass could land in jail.

noone believes in 'pay to play' more than i do. But in these situations there are two sides to the coin.

As I said, the permutations vary by state. Here, take a gander at the Texas version:

http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html

As another example, Florida abolished the retreat requirement outside of the home a few years back, and now has a general standard of "reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm" even outside the home.

[Chiefnj2]

If someone is using your dam shower, just walk out and call the cops. You aren't going to feel that good about defending your castle when no real threat exists, or the guy/gal has some serious mental issue.

[MOhillbilly]

As I said, the permutations vary by state. Here, take a gander at the Texas version:

http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html

As another example, Florida abolished the retreat requirement outside of the home a few years back, and now has a general standard of "reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm" even outside the home.

your quote"reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm" is afairly broad term and thats my point.

[kcfanXIII]

http://www.learntocarry.com/docs/CastleDoctrine.html

mo's castle doctrine.

Btw, i never said shoot first ask questions later.

[milkman]

why the **** was he showering?

After robbing the house, he was hoping to make a clean getaway.

[suds79]

After robbing the house, he was hoping to make a clean getaway.

I'm kinda ashamed to admit this because it was that cheesy but it made me laugh.

nice.

[WV]

The internet tough guys act like it's an easy clear cut thing, to be in position to take another man's life in the heat of the moment.

I don't see it so much as an internet tough guy situation as much as how it relates to this particular article. This guy was in your shower, broke into your house and decided he was going to shower. Obviously kicking in your bathroom door open with guns blazing is irresponsible, but I also don't think it relates to alot of examples it's trying to be compared to either.

This joker is already in your house and broke in to get there. There is no longer any question of intent or mistaken identity. If anyone deserves or is asking for a slug to the gut it's this guy. Obviously all situations are not the same, but this one isn't that difficult. The guy in the article decided to take his chances with a criminal in his bathroom, someone else may have decided he needed a little more lead in his diet. Both cases can be justified.

Oh and you didn't mention it, but the Castle Doctrine in WV covers you out to your porch. If the person is unarmed you may not fair so well, but if you can prove the act of trying to enter through force you'd most certainly be good.

[Just Passin' By]

your quote"reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm" is afairly broad term and thats my point.

I noted that back when I first responded to you:

Yes, it pretty much can, actually. The extent of that depends upon the state. The key, as is so often the case, is to be found in the interpretation of "reasonable".

Texas is a great example of this.

I don't know that anything more needs to be said on the subject, other than to note that your brother may have been talking about what the law was prior to the recent passage of the updated version. The Missouri version of the law is here:

http://www.learntocarry.com/docs/CastleDoctrine.html

[chopper]

try that shit in missouri and the jury might you hand your some prison time. Im not talkin outta my ass. My brother, stone solid, is a sheriff and gave the the straight breakdown.
you shoot a motherfucker in missouri, in your home, without provocation, your ass could land in jail.

noone believes in 'pay to play' more than i do. But in these situations there are two sides to the coin.

MO Revised Statutes - Section 563.031 (google this b/c CP doesn't let n00bs post links - or play in the arcade or casino it turns out)

Here is the MO statute regarding the castle doctrine. Hillbilly is right, you don't have the obligation to retreat if you're in your home, but the burden of proof is on the shooter to prove that deadly force is necessary. Might be hard to do if the other party is dead. If you ever kill an unarmed man in your house, you better at least sprinkle some crack on his dead body.

[Just Passin' By]

MO Revised Statutes - Section 563.031 (google this b/c CP doesn't let n00bs post links - or play in the arcade or casino it turns out)

Here is the MO statute regarding the castle doctrine. Hillbilly is right, you don't have the obligation to retreat if you're in your home, but the burden of proof is on the shooter to prove that deadly force is necessary. Might be hard to do if the other party is dead. If you ever kill an unarmed man in your house, you better at least sprinkle some crack on his dead body.

2. A person may not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself or herself or another against death, serious physical injury,[ rape, sodomy or kidnapping or serious physical injury through robbery, burglary or arson] or any forcible felony; or

(2) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person.

As a bit of follow up, here's an article on the subject written by Dan Terry, who's the assistant police chief in New Haven (or was at the time of the writing in 2010):

Not only your home, but your vehicle is covered under the law, allowing you to use deadly force against carjackers.

And in reference to the lawsuits such as mentioned above, the law states: "a person who uses force as described . . . is justified in using such force and such fact shall be an absolute defense to criminal prosecution or civil liability." It goes on to say "The court shall award attorneys' fees, court costs, and all reasonable expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action if absolute defense is found." Revised Statutes of Missouri, 563.073

If you're inside your own home, and some derelict sneaks in through a window, breaks down the door, or in some way unlawfully enters your castle, you may assume he is there to offer you or someone inside physical violence, and may react with deadly force, but only in your home or vehicle.

http://www.ngnn.com/65041/content/2010/apr/28/dan-terry-gun-zone-castle-doctrine

[Bwana]

If you're inside your own home, and some derelict sneaks in through a window, breaks down the door, or in some way unlawfully enters your castle, you may assume he is there to offer you or someone inside physical violence, and may react with deadly force, but only in your home or vehicle.

Cool, I guess if I catch someone breaking in to my garage, I will just have to beat their ass with a pipe wrench until I can drag them into the house to shoot them. :D

[Pablo]

It's really sad how many people actually would like to kill a man in cold blood. I mean there are many times where I would support that, but just wanting to blow someone's head off for just being in your home without regards to the situation is dumb. That Joe Horn case is one of the saddest cases out there.There's a lot of tough talk on the internet about how I'd do this and that.

99% of people wouldn't bust down a bathroom down and shoot a guy for showering in their home. If they would, they're mildly retarded.

[alnorth]

There's a lot of tough talk on the internet about how I'd do this and that.

99% of people wouldn't bust down a bathroom down and shoot a guy for showering in their home. If they would, they're mildly retarded.

Yeah. If someone breaks into my home, I will have my gun loaded and ready to go, but I'll try to see if they are a threat first. If someone is cowering or bolts for the door, I'm letting them go. If it looks like they are reaching for a weapon or moving to attack me, I'll shoot and hope that it doesn't end up being a tragic mistake.

The law in Iowa requires me to be a lot more careful, but I probably would be anyway. (we have a very weak castle doctrine. No duty to retreat out of your home, but you can only use "reasonable force" on an intruder, where reasonable force could mean deadly force, but does not automatically mean deadly force. You shoot a guy who broke into your house and its looks questionable that you had to, you are probably going to trial)

[Just Passin' By]

Yeah. If someone breaks into my home, I will have my gun loaded and ready to go, but I'll try to see if they are a threat first. If someone is cowering or bolts for the door, I'm letting them go. If it looks like they are reaching for a weapon or moving to attack me, I'll shoot and hope that it doesn't end up being a tragic mistake.

The law in Iowa requires me to be a lot more careful, but I probably would be anyway. (we have a very weak castle doctrine. No duty to retreat out of your home, but you can only use "reasonable force" on an intruder, where reasonable force could mean deadly force, but does not automatically mean deadly force. You shoot a guy who broke into your house and its looks questionable that you had to, you are probably going to trial)

Since you brought up the state, Iowa is currently working on changes to its version of the castle doctrine:

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/news/state-and-regional/iowa/article_05463d5f-63c4-5597-85e8-6d7ae1299fcd.html

It moved out of committee last week:

http://iowaindependent.com/53209/deadly-force-bill-advances-out-of-committee

The usual groups seem to be taking the usual positions.

[Chiefaholic]

He did the right thing but how often does someone break into someone elses house to just take a shower?

My house was broke into once and all they took was food. I wasn't home when it happened, but all we could find that was missing was a 6 pack of Coke and lunch meat. There wsn't any damage to my home, so I let it fly.

[alnorth]

Since you brought up the state, Iowa is currently working on changes to its version of the castle doctrine:

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/news/state-and-regional/iowa/article_05463d5f-63c4-5597-85e8-6d7ae1299fcd.html

It moved out of committee last week:

http://iowaindependent.com/53209/deadly-force-bill-advances-out-of-committee

The usual groups seem to be taking the usual positions.

They aren't really revising castle doctrine, newspapers get that wrong a lot. Castle doctrine deals with your home, and sometimes your car.

In Iowa, we are one of the very few states where you have a duty to retreat if you can when you are outside your home. (ie if someone is attacking you, and running away is a reasonable option, you must run away) They are trying to change that with a "stand your ground" law that removes the duty to retreat.

A reform of our castle doctrine law would be more like changing our law to Missouri's law (if someone breaks into your house, its open season on them).