BigCat's Top 5 At 21

[BigCatDaddy]

I'm a little underwhelmed at the lack of talent in this years draft, but as of right now come draft day here are the guys I'm pulling for at #21.

1. Phil Taylor - At some point this position HAS to be addresses in this defense. Taylor has huge upside here and basically offers us something we don't have on this team. A legit 3-4 NT. There are other guys later in the draft, but probably not the game changer Taylor can be.

2 Ryan Mallett - Here comes the boom or bust factor. This guys scares the hell out of me, but he has the best NFL arm I've seen in quite some time. I would applaud any effort at upgrading the QB position through the draft and you will never find a better arm at 21.

3. Torrey Smith - Our WR's are slower then dirt and Torrey is the perfect compliment to Bowe and should be able to get seperation. I think we are talking Maclin V2 right here. Smith, Bowe, Moe, Charles, McCluster is a lot of toys to play with on offense.

4. Martez Wilson - Team speed is still a major problem with this defense and Wilson upgrades that quite a bit over Belcher.

5. Justin Houston - A very good player at a major position of need. I wouldn't be thrilled by this pick ,but would just sit back and think "blah, but makes sense".

[Direckshun]

I like Taylor a lot more than most people here. I like that pick, A-.

Mallett is a disaster. Not only is Pioli not going to go for him, but he's apparently the antithesis of a team leader. Asshole QBs by and large don't win Super Bowls. D-

Smith is a reach, but an understandable one. I'd give the pick a B-.

Wilson I am not that crazy about. I feel like he doesn't play as hard as he should. He has a few good highlights but you never see the guy just plow a motherfucker. I think he's going to play softer than DJ. C-.

Houston would never happen with Pioli. Shame, too. A+.

[BigCatDaddy]

I like Taylor a lot more than most people here. I like that pick, A-.

Mallett is a disaster. Not only is Pioli not going to go for him, but he's apparently the antithesis of a team leader. Asshole QBs by and large don't win Super Bowls. D-

Smith is a reach, but an understandable one. I'd give the pick a B-.

Wilson I am not that crazy about. I feel like he doesn't play as hard as he should. He has a few good highlights but you never see the guy just plow a mother****er. I think he's going to play softer than DJ. C-.

Houston would never happen with Pioli. Shame, too. A+.

Mallett is the big question mark. I get all the intangible issues, but if a guy is out there throwing laser beams and putting up points does it off set it some? I wan't go bury the guy, but then I see him throw and just can't quit him. Although I'm sure he is probably off the Chiefs board anyways.

I'm almost pulling for Smith at this point ahead of Taylor. He have 0 speed at the WR position right now and need someone to stretch the field.

[suds79]

I'm perfectly fine with Taylor at 21 so we can finally stop talking about the NT position.

I also like the value of QB skills you get with Mallett who will fall to the 2nd. Perhaps a trade up in the 2nd possibility? Sitting a year or so and some seasoning and you could have a steal.

Can't win at the QB draft game if you don't ever try.

[Chiefnj2]

1. Houston
2. Reed
3. Hankerson
4. Carimi
5. Taylor

[Direckshun]

I wan't go bury the guy, but then I see him throw and just can't quit him.

http://www.mannythemovieguy.com/images/brokeback_mountain.jpg

[BigCatDaddy]

http://www.mannythemovieguy.com/images/brokeback_mountain.jpg

Exactly! :)

[milkman]

Mallett is the big question mark. I get all the intangible issues, but if a guy is out there throwing laser beams and putting up points does it off set it some? I wan't go bury the guy, but then I see him throw and just can't quit him. Although I'm sure he is probably off the Chiefs board anyways.

I'm almost pulling for Smith at this point ahead of Taylor. He have 0 speed at the WR position right now and need someone to stretch the field.

The reality is that intangibles are more important that physical ability for a QB.

Joe Montana had a weak arm and lacked ideal size, though he did throw an accurate ball.

Ryan Leaf was more physically gifted than Peyton Manning.

It's why I like Ponder more than Mallet.

Ponder isn't on the same level physically, but he seems to be a smart kid that people get behind.

Mallet seems to be a headcase.

Just say no to Mallet.

[Chris Meck]

I agree.

[Frankie]

I like Taylor a lot more than most people here. I like that pick, A-.I was starting to love all this gathering Taylor @ 21 speculation, until I read up about his off field issues and his work habits prior to 2010. Pioli will perhaps pass on him and try to go for Powe later which won't exactly break my heart.

Mallett is a disaster. Not only is Pioli not going to go for him, but he's apparently the antithesis of a team leader. Asshole QBs by and large don't win Super Bowls. D-

He may not quite be a Ryan Leaf, but he sure as heck sounds like an Elvis Grbac.

[Chiefnj2]

The reality is that intangibles are more important that physical ability for a QB.

Joe Montana had a weak arm and lacked ideal size, though he did throw an accurate ball.

Ryan Leaf was more physically gifted than Peyton Manning.

It's why I like Ponder more than Mallet.

Ponder isn't on the same level physically, but he seems to be a smart kid that people get behind.

Mallet seems to be a headcase.

Just say no to Mallet.

I can't help but think that if KC took Ponder at 21, they could parlay it into a bunch of picks and/or players from a team like Carolina, Buffalo, AZ or Cincy who may pass up a QB in early round 1.

[HighChief]

My top five would be....

1. Kerrigan
2. Taylor
3. Hankerson
4. Carimi
5. Ayers/Houston

[Tribal Warfare]

In all honesty, if the pick isn't a NT IMO it will be an OL. This is due to his " sure thing/safe" idealogy and Parcell's philosophy and I think they'll give Studebaker his shot to start because of his apprenticeship with Vrabel.

[jd1020]

I cant even think of 5 I would like to see at 21.

Ayers
T. Smith
Liuget

Otherwise I hope we trade down, maybe out of the first entirely.

I'm not sold on Taylor just because hes a big body. I'd rather wait til the mid rounds for a hard worker. Someone like Fua or, even later in the draft, Neild.

[BigCatDaddy]

The reality is that intangibles are more important that physical ability for a QB.

Joe Montana had a weak arm and lacked ideal size, though he did throw an accurate ball.

Ryan Leaf was more physically gifted than Peyton Manning.

It's why I like Ponder more than Mallet.

Ponder isn't on the same level physically, but he seems to be a smart kid that people get behind.

Mallet seems to be a headcase.

Just say no to Mallet.

Was Leaf really though? Is being able to throw a ball a little harder or a little further the full extent of physical ability? Accuracy is what trumps all in my opinion and I think Manning far more accuarate. Leaf was bigger fatter dude if you want to call that being more phyiscally gifted, but I'll take the physical gift of being able to avoid the pass rush over that.

Mallet not only has a gun, but can put the ball on the money like Warner did. He is the leader Warner was? Hell no, but not many are. Like I said I'm 50/50 on the kid, but I would be super excited if he picked him up and just to see what he can do. He might be Grbac part II, but Elvis lead some pretty damn good offenses.

[Chris Meck]

Mallet not only has a gun, but can put the ball on the money like Warner did. He is the leader Warner was? Hell no, but not many are. Like I said I'm 50/50 on the kid, but I would be super excited if he picked him up and just to see what he can do. He might be Grbac part II, but Elvis lead some pretty damn good offenses.

The difference between Warner and Grbac is that Warner led teams to the SB, Grbac led teams nowhere.

If it was about having a big, accurate arm then the Jeff George's of the world would win all the games.

when adversity strikes, and it will, in most games and certainly every season-and for damned sure in a play-off game, then the leadership abilities and intangibles are what separates the greats from the never-was's.

[BigCatDaddy]

The difference between Warner and Marino is that Warner led teams to the SB, Marino led teams nowhere.

If it was about having a big, accurate arm then the Dan Marino's of the world would win all the games.

when adversity strikes, and it will, in most games and certainly every season-and for damned sure in a play-off game, then the leadership abilities and intangibles are what separates the greats from the never-was's.

FYP :)

Not that I'm sold on this kid at all, but in the right place I think he can do well. I think he at least does for Baltimore what Flacco has done for example.

[suds79]

Joe Montana had a weak arm and lacked ideal size, though he did throw an accurate ball.

Montana was the best but let's not act like he's the rule and not the exception.

For every Joe Montana, there's about 10 Chad Penningtons. Smart, solid (and some not so solid) QBs who were limited physically.

Maybe it's not a huge factor but you cannot deny when you defend against the likes of Big Ben or a Joe Flacco that there's more of the field you have to defend because they can put the ball anywhere on the field. It's an advantage and a factor.

We just had a SB where the two QBs are about as physically gifted as they come. Now of course they're vets and have had time to really become experts of their craft so seasoning like that takes time.

Sure above all else, I want my QB to be smart & quick in decision making. I think that's skill #1. And Mallett probably needs some time to mature and refine his game.

That's why he's going in the 2nd round and probably won't start in this league for a couple of years. 100% agree with Mel Kiper in that you can't compare Mallett to Leaf because Ryan Mallett isn't going #2 overall.

As a 2nd rounder, the risk is much, much less.

[Saccopoo]

Good thread BigCat. Here's my top five wish list for the the Chiefs at #21:

1. Derrek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321 lbs.

- An athletic and smart four year starter (RT his freshman year, LT the rest). Excellent footwork and hands. Very effective is neutralizing speed rushers and has the size and strength to be very effective in the run. Will be able to play either side in the NFL, and has a chance to be a top tier left tackle. A combination of Carimi and Costanzo - not as good in run blocking as Carimi but a better pass blocker; not as good in pass blocking as Costanzo, but a better run blocker.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1BhjOtBR41M/TUTAXn1-SUI/AAAAAAAABkI/krKJBTaaQOY/s1600/derek%2Bsherrod.jpg

2. Jonathan Baldwin, WR; Pitt: 6'4", 228 lbs.

- Faster 40 than AJ Green. 6" higher vertical than Hankerson. Better broad jump and two inch bigger hands than Torrey Smith (who wins the 2011 NFL Draft Jimmy "Small Hands" Clausen award - I'd never draft a receiver with 8 1/2" hands.) Baldwin, at least on paper, is the best receiver in this draft. Huge, fast, enormous hands and can go up and get the ball. I think he's a steal at #21.

http://proprospects.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jonathan-baldwin.jpg

3. Christian Ponder, QB; Florida State: 6'3", 229 lbs.

- A cerebral quarterback (Already has his bachelors, masters and is working on his PhD) that has excellent pocket presence and the ability to quickly assess his progressions. Ponder has bounced up and down in the mocks from first round to third because of numerous injuries the last couple of years. After a stellar Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed deft touch on his passes and a good understanding of routes, he's moved back up the charts. I think he's a perfect quarterback for Haley's system and well worth the reach at #21. If you are to believe the draft pundits, he won't be there in the second round for the Chiefs.

http://www.coachjimbo.com/Christian%20ponder.jpg

4. Phil Taylor, NT; Baylor: 6'3", 335 lbs.

- Taylor has always had the size and skills, he just never used them in college to be a dominant defensive tackle. Last year, he was a third/fourth rounder. However, it's pay day, and the real Phil Taylor has decided to show up, dominating the Senior Bowl, the Combine and his Pro Day. I think he's got more potential than BJ Raji, and I'm putting my faith in Romeo Crennel to get this guy to play to his potential. It worked for Derrick Johnson, Sean Smith and Glenn Dorsey...

http://nfldotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/p_taylor_110303_blog.jpg

5. Anthony Costanzo, OT; Boston College: 6'7", 311 lbs.

- Academic All-American (bio-chemistry major) and four year starter for the Eagles (holds the record for most career starts at BC). A well-coached and fundamentally sound tackle that has very good feet and has an uncanny ability to game plan and adjust against a defender real time. Plays nasty and is a vocal team leader (2010 Team Captain).

http://sportcitychefs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/09000d5d8192acf6_gallery_6002.jpg

Dark Horse:

Brooks Reed, OLB/DE; Arizona: 6'3", 260 lbs.

- Reed is kind of a late bloomer, not doing much until his senior season and really exploding at the Senior Bowl and Combine, where he showed nice react times when they dropped him back in passing drills. Very stong, and is capable of blowing through blockers to get to the ball. Could be this years version of Clay Matthews or Koa Misi.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Brooks+Reed+Iowa+v+Arizona+Ntt-ACBNCu0l.jpg

[milkman]

Montana was the best but let's not act like he's the rule and not the exception.

For every Joe Montana, there's about 10 Chad Penningtons. Smart, solid (and some not so solid) QBs who were limited physically.

Maybe it's not a huge factor but you cannot deny when you defend against the likes of Big Ben or a Joe Flacco that there's more of the field you have to defend because they can put the ball anywhere on the field. It's an advantage and a factor.

We just had a SB where the two QBs are about as physically gifted as they come. Now of course they're vets and have had time to really become experts of their craft so seasoning like that takes time.

Sure above all else, I want my QB to be smart & quick in decision making. I think that's skill #1. And Mallett probably needs some time to mature and refine his game.

That's why he's going in the 2nd round and probably won't start in this league for a couple of years. 100% agree with Mel Kiper in that you can't compare Mallett to Leaf because Ryan Mallett isn't going #2 overall.

As a 2nd rounder, the risk is much, much less.

And for every Aaron Rogers there's about 10 David Carr's.

When looking at QBs, I want the guy that plays smart, if I have to choose between the smart kid that's less physically gifted and the dumbass that's more physically gifted.

[suds79]

And for every Aaron Rogers there's about 10 David Carr's.

When looking at QBs, I want the guy that plays smart, if I have to choose between the smart kid that's less physically gifted and the dumbass that's more physically gifted.

Agreed. Definitely take smarts/quick decision making above all else. That is skill #1. Believe it or not, we're mostly on the same page here.

I'm not going to kill anybody who's not on the Mallett bandwagon. There's probably enough question marks to scare anybody off and I get that.

But for me, I keep going back to that's why he's a 2nd rounder and not a high 1st. At that point I'm willing to take the chance. I mean thus far our last year's 2nd rounders are looking pretty rough right now. Do we want that? Of course not. But it won't kill the team either if they don't work out. Not like missing on a high 1st round pick. So it's okay IMO to take a shot.

There's other QBs I'm interested also. Ex: Dalton, Ponder, Stanzi.

I think it's imperative that the Chiefs start looking for the next QB down the line a year or two down the road should Matt bomb which I think is a decent chance. Not much confidence in his game.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm not saying Mallett performs really well under pressure but:

411 pass attempts, 32 TDs and 12 INTs.

Gabbert
475 attempts, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Is the almost 3:1 ratio of Mallett better than the less than 2:1 ratio of Gabbert?
Mallett has a 7.78 TD%, while Gabbert has 3.37%.

Mallett's ceiling seems to be much, much higher.
Has there ever been a QB taken first, or in the top 5 with only 16 TDs his last year? Seems awfully low.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

[Chiefnj2]

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/NFL-Draft_2011_Gabbert_2-17-2011.htm

[BigCatDaddy]

Chiefnj and BigCatDaddy echoing the same talking points.

If this wasn't an MU QB you would be making the same points.

[BigCatDaddy]

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/NFL-Draft_2011_Gabbert_2-17-2011.htm

I would take the guy at 21 and probably several other QB's, but anyone that doesn't think his lack luster numbers aren't a concern are sucking on a black and gold ball sac.


He's a huge gamble for a team. It's easy to explain away why you choose Mallet or Newton if they bust out. Great college performers, big time arms, and talents. If Gabbert bust you look like a moron for taking a mediocre college QB and thinking he will do more in the NFL.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

16 TD passes from a spread QB is somewhat pathetic.

Newton has 30 TD passes in 280 attempts, while Gabbert has 16 in 475, yet everyone questions Newton's intelligence and accuracy.

Gabbert appears to have underachieved.

______
Here is an article that spent a lot of time analyzing Gabbert from a statistical point of view:

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/NFL-Draft_2011_Gabbert_2-17-2011.htm

Anyone who watched MU games will know that one of the reasons why the team had so few TD passes was due to the obstinacy of Yost's goal line packages, and the inability of Gabbert's receivers to break big plays.

If your goal line offense consists of nothing but bubble screens and jet sweeps, you aren't going to throw a lot of short TD passes, and if you don't have receivers who can make people miss or win one on one, you aren't going to get long TD passes either.

Daniel had the second in spades. Gabbert didn't.

It's really that simple.

[The Franchise]

P. Taylor
J. Baldwin
B. Reed
L. Hankerson
G. Carimi

[Nightfyre]

I like the use of statistics to make sweeping generalizations on the part of nj. He reallly solidifies his position by not once making mention of the fact that he is talking out of his ass cuz he hasn't watched one football game.

[Bewbies]

Gabbert reminds me of Stafford, who is probably the one guy in the last 5 years I've wanted us to get most. He zips the ball into extremely tight windows, which is what QB's have to do in the NFL. It's amazing in a year we only win 2 games we land the #3 overall pick. :banghead:

[doomy3]

1. Gabe Carimi
2. Jon Baldwin
3. Anthony Castonzo
4. Brooks Reed
5. Mike Pouncey (if he can play center)

[Chiefnj2]

I like the use of statistics to make sweeping generalizations on the part of nj. He reallly solidifies his position by not once making mention of the fact that he is talking out of his ass cuz he hasn't watched one football game.

I gave you a link to an article that did a statistical analysis of Gabbert. It isn't a sweeping generalization. It is a point of discussion. If you aren't capable of reading the article and discussing it, then just eff off.

It's funny how last year all the drafturbators made the sweeping generalization that spread QB's suck; Bradford in particular. Bradford was going to struggle because of quick reads, not being able to take a snap from under center, etc. Now that there is a homer prospect all of the past concerns are thrown out of the window for a player that isn't even close to Bradford.

[Nightfyre]

I gave you a link to an article that did a statistical analysis of Gabbert. It isn't a sweeping generalization. It is a point of discussion. If you aren't capable of reading the article and discussing it, then just eff off.

It's funny how last year all the drafturbators made the sweeping generalization that spread QB's suck; Bradford in particular. Bradford was going to struggle because of quick reads, not being able to take a snap from under center, etc. Now that there is a homer prospect all of the past concerns are thrown out of the window for a player that isn't even close to Bradford.

I don't even like Gabbert outside of the fact that he's a prototypical passer. ROFL I have zero love for Mizzou and am the furthest thing from a homer. Additionally, I loved Bradford starting even a year before he came out which is well documented in this forum. Do you have any additional generalizations you want to throw out at me? That said, even watching Gabbert you have to know he's an NFL passer irrespective of his touchdown (meaningless stat) statistics. Jesus.

[Frankie]

1. Gabe Carimi
.
.
.
5. Mike Pouncey (if he can play center like his brother)

FYP

I want our O-line, NT, and OLB addressed in the first 3 rounds. I'm not a big fan of Ayers so I either like to see Carimi in the 1st followed by Powe in the 2nd, or Phil Taylor in the 1st followed by BPA in the 2nd and 3rd playing OLB, OT, or center.