Other Sports Shaq retires [Archive]

Hammock Parties

06-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Props to one of the best basketball players ever. Where do you rank him?

Video:
http://www.tout.com/u/Shaq

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6615886

After a mentally exhausting season in which he was unable to overcome the effects of a right Achilles injury as a member of the Boston Celtics, Shaquille O'Neal has decided to retire after 19 NBA seasons.

In typical O'Neal fashion, he chose the unconventional approach of announcing his retirement via social media. He posted a short video on a new social media site called Tout in which he said:

"We did it. Nineteen years baby," he said in the message. "I want to thank you very much, that's why I'm telling you first, I'm about to retire. Thank you, talk to you soon."

O'Neal walks away with four championship rings, three Finals MVP trophies, one MVP award, and 15 All-Star appearances. O'Neal, a two-time NBA scoring champion, is fifth all-time on the NBA's list for career points (28,596) and 12th in total rebounds (13,099).

O'Neal arrived in Boston last August declaring he had 730 days -- or two more seasons -- in his NBA career, but he couldn't endure the first 365. Riddled by injuries, most notably the lingering Achilles ailment, he appeared in just 37 regular-season games and limped through two playoff appearances for Boston, playing a mere 17½ minutes after Feb. 1.

Upon arriving in Boston, O'Neal injected newfound lightheartedness in Boston's training camp and quickly endeared himself to the region with stunts like posing as a statue in Harvard Square, conducting a holiday medley with the Boston Pops, and dressing in drag for Halloween.

But even as the Celtics thrived when he was on the court -- enough so for Boston to consider trading away starting center Kendrick Perkins at the February trade deadline -- O'Neal struggled to stay on the court due to a myriad of injuries on the right side of his body.

No amount of rehab and medicine could cure the ailing Achilles, which limited him to one appearance after Feb. 1, a 5½-minute stint against the Detroit Pistons in early April that saw him limp right back off the court when the injury flared.

O'Neal played small minutes in Games 3 and 4 of an Eastern Conference semifinal series against the Heat before being deactivated for Game 5 as the Celtics season ended in Miami.

Saulbadguy

06-01-2011, 01:22 PM

Freak of nature.

alpha_omega

06-01-2011, 01:22 PM

Finally.

Not sure, but somewhere in the top 20.

Mr. Laz

06-01-2011, 01:23 PM

couple years too late but he was a stud in his day

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 01:25 PM

Shaq was a beast, but really was a shell of his former self since the 2006 season.

BWillie

06-01-2011, 01:26 PM

Shaqatirement

DJ's left nut

06-01-2011, 01:28 PM

One of the top 5 centers of all time, easily. If you don't adjust for era, he's probably the best center of all time, but it's not terribly fair to compare him to guys that didn't have the kind of training, etc... he had.

Shaq may end up underrated by history when all is said and done. The fact remains that I've still never seen anyone capable of dominating an opponent the way he did - Jordan included. His combination of size, strength, agility, exposiveness and skills are essentially unmatched in the history of basketball. For all the grief he gets for his FTs, Shaq had remarkably deft touch around the basket and had a legitimately well-developed set of low-post moves.

He wasn't always the most entertaining player to watch, but in terms of sheer dominance, Shaq may be the greatest of all time. He's easily a top 20 player, but a strong argument could be made that he's no worse than a top 10 guy.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad

06-01-2011, 01:29 PM

Below Hakeem.

okcchief

06-01-2011, 01:30 PM

It was time.

He could actually still have been a top ten center in the league if he could have stayed healthy.

He's definitely one of the top players of my lifetime and I think he had the best personality of any of them.

I remember seeing him play against the Hornets here when he was with the Heat. He was clowning around with the fans and was trying to do Harlem Globetrotter type shot against one of their guards.

I'll remember him for just having more fun than anyone while still being a great player and a winner.

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 01:31 PM

Damn. I was hoping to see Kobe taste his ass one more time.

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 01:32 PM

Below Hakeem.

No.

Pasta Little Brioni

06-01-2011, 01:33 PM

Plenty of time to work on his FT's now ;)

Deberg_1990

06-01-2011, 01:33 PM

Freak of nature.

This. In his prime nobody could match up.

okcchief

06-01-2011, 01:35 PM

Below Hakeem.

Hakeem did dominate his ass as a young player in the finals. I think it would have been a different story with both of them in their primes. They were closer than most think though. I think Hakeem maybe the most underrated player ever.

Shaq and Hakeem are the best two centers since I've been watching. I would give Shaq the edge though.

I'm not old enough to remember Wilt or Russell and Kareem was pretty old and played no defense. I remember him walking up the court. His hook shoot may have been the most unstoppable shot ever though.

Over-Head

06-01-2011, 01:37 PM

And another ledgend retires.....

Although I stopped watching the Celtic's (and B Ball) when Larry Bird retired

Reaper16

06-01-2011, 01:39 PM

A publicity stunt for Tout.

kcxiv

06-01-2011, 01:41 PM

Great Career Big Deisel!!!!!!!! HOpe you stay in the NBA doing something. :) Thank you for helping bring the Lakers 3 titles

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 01:43 PM

Hakeem did dominate his ass as a young player in the finals. I think it would have been a different story with both of them in their primes. They were closer than most think though. I think Hakeem maybe the most underrated player ever.

Shaq and Hakeem are the best two centers since I've been watching. I would give Shaq the edge though.

I'm not old enough to remember Wilt or Russell and Kareem was pretty old and played no defense. I remember him walking up the court. His hook shoot may have been the most unstoppable shot ever though.

They were close statistically & in accolades, but even there Shaq gets the edge.

Shaq - 19 seasons
Points 28,596
Rebounds 13,099
Blocks 2,732
4x NBA Champion
3x Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
15x NBA All-Star
2x NBA scoring champ
8x All-NBA First Team
2x All-NBA Second Team
4x All-NBA Third Team
3x All-Defense Second Team

Hakeem - 18 seasons
Points 26,946
Rebounds 13,747
Blocks 3,830
2x NBA Champion
2x Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
12x NBA All-Star
6x All-NBA First Team
3x All-NBA Second Team
3x All-NBA Third Team
5x All-Defense First Team
4x All-Defense Second Team

tooge

06-01-2011, 01:45 PM

Lets see
Jordan
Jabaar(sp)
alajawon (sp)
Chamberlain
Magic J
Dr. J
Bird
at least 4 or 5 others.
I'd put him in a list with all the above, so top 15 or so

ChiTown

06-01-2011, 01:47 PM

They were close statistically & in accolades, but even there Shaq gets the edge.

Shaq - 19 seasons
Points 28,596
Rebounds 13,099
Blocks 2,732
4x NBA Champion
3x Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
15x NBA All-Star
2x NBA scoring champ
8x All-NBA First Team
2x All-NBA Second Team
4x All-NBA Third Team
3x All-Defense Second Team

Hakeem - 18 seasons
Points 26,946
Rebounds 13,747
Blocks 3,830
2x NBA Champion
2x Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
12x NBA All-Star
6x All-NBA First Team
3x All-NBA Second Team
3x All-NBA Third Team
5x All-Defense First Team
4x All-Defense Second Team

I don't think Shaq ever got the due he deserved as a defender. Dude completely altered the other team's offense because of his ability to actively take up space in the paint.

Arsonist

06-01-2011, 01:47 PM

He was a machine in his prime.

Cheers big guy. :toast:

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 01:52 PM

Probably 4th best center of all time.

Hammock Parties

06-01-2011, 01:52 PM

DJ's left nut

06-01-2011, 01:53 PM

I don't think Shaq ever got the due he deserved as a defender. Dude completely altered the other team's offense because of his ability to actively take up space in the paint.

Imagine Dwight Howard if Howard could also drop 40 points on you if he felt like it.

People remember old fat Shaq and forget the guy in Orlando and his first few seasons in LA. He completely altered his opponents game plan both offensively and defensively.

JD10367

06-01-2011, 01:55 PM

Lets see
Jordan
Jabaar(sp)
alajawon (sp)
Chamberlain
Magic J
Dr. J
Bird
at least 4 or 5 others.
I'd put him in a list with all the above, so top 15 or so

If you're just talking centers, he's up there. Maybe not with the Dynamic Duo (Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell) but he's right behind them, probably after Kareem but before Olajuwon. I'd also place Robert Parish in there (underrated).

Comparing it to QBs, Shaq is probably in the Elway/Marino/Aikman range. Not Montana, and not even Brady/P.Manning, but right up there.

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 01:57 PM

Probably 4th best center of all time.

I'll catch crap for this, but I would put him ahead of Russell. I say 3rd.

Easy 6

06-01-2011, 01:58 PM

My favorite Shaq moment was when Barkley tackled his mouthy ass & gave him a few hammerfists to top it off.

durtyrute

06-01-2011, 02:07 PM

I'll never know how to rank Shaq. It's kinda hard to stop a 300 pound seven footer when he's 4 feet from the goal.

blaise

06-01-2011, 02:09 PM

Hakeem was awesome, and I love Hakeem. The Dream Shake was a killer, but Shaq was a more dominant player. I would say Shaq is over Hakeem.

Fish

06-01-2011, 02:13 PM

I'd likely care a little bit if Shaq wasn't a colossal douche....

Hammock Parties

06-01-2011, 02:14 PM

I'd likely care a little bit if Shaq wasn't a colossal douche....

I've always thought Shaq was a likable guy....

blaise

06-01-2011, 02:20 PM

I've always thought Shaq was a likable guy....

I once heard Matt Bullard from the Rockets say most players liked him. He said they were all lucky he was nice, because he would get fouled so hard every night, if he was a jerk he probably would have punched people and killed someone.

DJ's left nut

06-01-2011, 02:21 PM

I'll catch crap for this, but I would put him ahead of Russell. I say 3rd.

I'd put him ahead of Kareem. Kareem couldn't control a game on the defensive end like Shaq could. Kareem had a better career, but don't you just think Shaq in his prime would've thrown Kareem around? Can you imagine Kareem keeping his legs under him for that sky hook after Shaq worked him underneath on the offensive end for a game or 2? In a playoff series, I'd absolutely take Shaq ahead of Kareem. Raw numbers and 'career' go to Kareem, but Shaq was the better center, IMO.

Wilt is the only person I have definitely ahead of him (and I could be convinced). At gunpoint I would put Russell ahead of him, but Shaqs offensive game is simply light years beyond Russell's and defensively, again, Shaq could destroy the world if he wanted to.

What gives Russel the nod over Shaq was his drive. Shaq played large chunks of the season in cruise control. He also used the first month or so to get himself back into playing shape after being a lardass in the offseason. Had Shaq Russell's drive and leadership ability, he'd have blown Bill out of the water.

But ultimately, Russell's leadership was instrumental in all those rings and that counts for something.

Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
Malone
Robinson
Parrish
Mikan
Ewing
Reed
Walton (too many injuries)

ChiefsCountry

06-01-2011, 02:21 PM

Jordan
Wilt
Russell
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Oscar
Jerry West
Kareem
Hakeem
Kobe
Elgin Baylor
Duncan
LeBron
Karl Malone

Here is my top 15 as of now. I think LeBron is going to shoot up even higher on this list.

JD10367

06-01-2011, 02:24 PM

I'll catch crap for this, but I would put him ahead of Russell. I say 3rd.

Russell: 963 games, 40,726 minutes (42.3 avg), 21,620 total rebounds (22.5 avg... yes, per game, for his career... and in just the playoffs it raises to 24.8 per game), 4,100 assists, 14,522 points (15.1 ppg), had to deal with Wilt Chamberlain.

Shaq: 1207 games, 41,918 minutes (34.7 avg), 13,099 total rebounds (10.9 per game), 3,026 assists, 28,596 points (23.7 ppg).

Yes, Shaq played longer. But he logged almost 8 minutes fewer per game. Yes, Shaq was a much better scorer. But as a rebounder he pales in comparison, and played in an era where scoring was more important. Russell played in an era where rebounds and defense were a center's job... and that tall skinny man dominated, when you could be way more physical than today.

Shaq's career FG% is much higher than Russel's (58% to 44%). Which makes you say, "Wow, Shaq was unstoppable around the basket!" Then why did his rebounding suck so bad in comparison? Sounds to me like he relied on his physical gifts and actually, yes, really didn't try as hard as he could've. I think he could've been one of the greatest ever, if he'd put his mind to it more.

Pennywise

06-01-2011, 02:24 PM

Greatest clutch free throw shooter ever.

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 02:26 PM

Kareem > Shaq

Kareem was obviously more offensively talented than Shaq, but Kareem also averaged more rebounds per game, blocks per game, and steals per game.

Kareem also had more Championships, MVPs, All-Stars, was 5x All-Defense First Team and 6x All-Defense Second Team.

SuperChief

06-01-2011, 02:27 PM

I'll never forget you, Diesel.

http://listentoleon.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shaq-kazaam.jpg

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Russell: 963 games, 40,726 minutes (42.3 avg), 21,620 total rebounds (22.5 avg... yes, per game, for his career... and in just the playoffs it raises to 24.8 per game), 4,100 assists, 14,522 points (15.1 ppg), had to deal with Wilt Chamberlain.

Shaq: 1207 games, 41,918 minutes (34.7 avg), 13,099 total rebounds (10.9 per game), 3,026 assists, 28,596 points (23.7 ppg).

Yes, Shaq played longer. But he logged almost 8 minutes fewer per game. Yes, Shaq was a much better scorer. But as a rebounder he pales in comparison, and played in an era where scoring was more important. Russell played in an era where rebounds and defense were a center's job... and that tall skinny man dominated, when you could be way more physical than today.

Shaq's career FG% is much higher than Russel's (58% to 44%). Which makes you say, "Wow, Shaq was unstoppable around the basket!" Then why did his rebounding suck so bad in comparison? Sounds to me like he relied on his physical gifts and actually, yes, really didn't try as hard as he could've. I think he could've been one of the greatest ever, if he'd put his mind to it more.

It so tough to compare players from ERA's. Someone else brought out what Lebron's numbers would have been based on the number of possessions in a game back when Wilt played. However if we are lining up and picking teams I'm taking Shaq before Russell on mine.

JD10367

06-01-2011, 02:36 PM

It so tough to compare players from ERA's. Someone else brought out what Lebron's numbers would have been based on the number of possessions in a game back when Wilt played. However if we are lining up and picking teams I'm taking Shaq before Russell on mine.

And your team's gonna get its ass kicked, LOL.

1. Chamberlain
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

That's my top five.

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 02:38 PM

1. Chamberlain
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

That's my top five.

Yes.

shitgoose

06-01-2011, 02:42 PM

Russell>>Shaq.

Russell 11x NBA Champion with two of those coming as player-coach

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 02:43 PM

Russell>>Shaq.

Russell 11x NBA Champion with two of those coming as player-coach

You can't go strickly on that or you bring up the Big Game Bob arguement.

DaKCMan AP

06-01-2011, 02:47 PM

You can't go strickly on that or you bring up the Big Game Bob arguement.

Big Game Bob didn't average 15 and 22.5 over his career.

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 02:56 PM

Big Game Bob didn't average 15 and 22.5 over his career.

Right, but it brings up what is the value of a Championship. Championships are weighted of course in the greatness of a player. Let's take Kobe for example. Which of his 5 titles are more valuable to his legacy? Obviously the last 2 where he actually lead the team to a title instead of playing Robin to Batman during the first 3. If Lebron could have won a title with the Cavs it would have weighed higher then him winning one with the Heat.

DJ's left nut

06-01-2011, 03:03 PM

Right, but it brings up what is the value of a Championship. Championships are weighted of course in the greatness of a player. Let's take Kobe for example. Which of his 5 titles are more valuable to his legacy? Obviously the last 2 where he actually lead the team to a title instead of playing Robin to Batman during the first 3. If Lebron could have won a title with the Cavs it would have weighed higher then him winning one with the Heat.

Didn't Russell have 8 HOFers as teammates through a large chunk of that title run? I think I remember it being something absolutely absurd like that.

Pasta Little Brioni

06-01-2011, 03:03 PM

As for Russel. Nobody is going to ever sniff 22 rebounds a game ever again. Totally different game when he played. It's impossible to compare stats in different eras.

RNR

06-01-2011, 03:05 PM

Greatest clutch free throw shooter ever.

LMAO

BigCatDaddy

06-01-2011, 03:35 PM

Didn't Russell have 8 HOFers as teammates through a large chunk of that title run? I think I remember it being something absolutely absurd like that.

Yeah, there is a laundry list of them.

BIG_DADDY

06-01-2011, 04:20 PM

Thanks for the good times Shaq.

ModSocks

06-01-2011, 04:35 PM

Thanks for the good times Shaq.

TMI, man, TMI.....

PunkinDrublic

06-01-2011, 04:38 PM

This can only mean one thing. The long awaited Kazaam 2 is finally coming out!

ModSocks

06-01-2011, 04:39 PM

This can only mean one thing. The long awaited Kazaam 2 is finally coming out!

Oh fuck yeah. I'm SOOO getting high for that!

RealSNR

06-01-2011, 07:42 PM

My favorite player growing up was Shaq. Jordan was good. So was Barkley. But my favorite player was Shaq by far.

Absolutely unstoppable when he got the ball down low. Double, triple team him. Didn't matter. He was going to get his.

If I had to choose a word to describe his style of play, it'd be "rape." He absolutely raped other centers on the court. He made them eat his giant chocolate penis while he demeaned and made them feel sub-human and worthless. Vlade Divac had a nice little career in the NBA, and it all of a sudden ended when he had to face Shaq in the playoffs two years in a row. I wonder why.

tk13

06-01-2011, 07:47 PM

Mr_Tomahawk

06-01-2011, 07:55 PM

Deberg_1990

06-01-2011, 08:13 PM

Lets hope this frees him up to continue his movie career....

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wc8UsUloXmQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

GordonGekko

06-01-2011, 08:28 PM

Shaq was unbelievable to watch in his youthful years, but as he packed on the LB's the injuries stacked up. The guy was TOO big there towards the end

KC_Connection

06-01-2011, 08:41 PM

Top 10 all-time. Carried both Kobe and Wade to titles. It's sad to see him go.

milkman

06-01-2011, 09:14 PM

And your team's gonna get its ass kicked, LOL.

1. Chamberlain
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

That's my top five.

This.

To me, Wilt illustrates just how screwed up the greatest player ever argument because of rings is.

Wilt was the most dominating force to ever play the game.

You couldn't stop him.

He had ball skills, was physically intimidating, a great defender, and great rebounder.

Quick feet and soft hands.

But he played most of his career with average talent surrouding him, and basketball is a team game, and the Celtics were loaded with all stars and HoFers.

Titty Meat

06-01-2011, 10:46 PM

Shaq was the man now you got these 7'0 European pussies like Dirk Noringski shooting 25 foot jumpshots.

88TG88

06-01-2011, 11:14 PM

Top 10 all-time. Carried both Kobe and Wade to titles. It's sad to see him go.

nah

Hammock Parties

06-02-2011, 06:51 AM

Hilarious Shaq quote:

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.

blaise

06-02-2011, 07:19 AM

A Houston radio station this morning had some guy that said Shaq would come into a restaurant where he worked and order chocolate cake first, before his meal.

Amnorix

06-02-2011, 08:13 AM

Shaq is most similar to Wilt in many, many ways. Can't shoot FTs, and absolutely unstoppable when they got the ball within 5 feet of the net, and so much bigger and stronger than EVERYONE else it's completely absurd.

It's too bad Shaq's legs went out from under him. Even this year, when he was ON the damn court, the Celtics were a compeltely different team. Shaq down low with Ray outside and Rondo distributing was CLEARLY a big problem for teams to deal with. Once Shaq was done, so were the Celtics.

okcchief

06-02-2011, 08:14 AM

Amnorix

06-02-2011, 08:20 AM

This.

To me, Wilt illustrates just how screwed up the greatest player ever argument because of rings is.

Wilt was the most dominating force to ever play the game.

You couldn't stop him.

He had ball skills, was physically intimidating, a great defender, and great rebounder.

Quick feet and soft hands.

But he played most of his career with average talent surrouding him, and basketball is a team game, and the Celtics were loaded with all stars and HoFers.

In many ways you are right, but you are also wrong.

I think, at bottom, Wilt was not aggressive enough and lacked the "win or die" attitude that made Russ so great. Wilt NEVER fouled out of a game. Think about that -- thousands of games over a very long career, as the center, and he never once fouled out. Was that because he thought he was too important for his team to lose? Maybe. But it certainly didn't help the intimidation factor in the paint.

And don't give me that average talent BS. The 1967 76ers team -- the ONE that won the Championship surrounded by Celtics teams winning Championships -- was selected the greatest team ever for the first 50 years of the NBA or whatever.

And in '69, when Russ in his last year and Sam Jones in his last year and his group of old veterans beat Wilt AND Jerry West AND Elgin Baylor, all of whom were in their primes -- WTF was that?

What the Celtics had, and what Russ primarily benefitted from, was a truly great and well balanced TEAM.

Look, Wilt is easily one of the best centers ever, and I highly respect him as a person and player -- but don't give me that he never had teammates.

whoman69

06-02-2011, 08:43 AM

I think the refs let the action go with Shaq way too much. He could bowl right over somone and not get called. Once opponents found this out they practically wrestled with him so he had to earn it on the line. I'd put him behind Wilt, Kareem and Hakim. I'd put Russell ahead of him too but Russell was more a PF that played center defensively because of his ability.

BigCatDaddy

06-02-2011, 08:53 AM

I think the refs let the action go with Shaq way too much. He could bowl right over somone and not get called. .

I think you have that completely backwards.

He was so much bigger and stronger he was taking shots that would normally be fouls and the refs let it go because it just didn't effect him.

blaise

06-02-2011, 08:59 AM

I think you have that completely backwards.

He was so much bigger and stronger he was taking shots that would normally be fouls and the refs let it go because it just didn't effect him.

Yeah, strangely I think it went both ways. He got away with a lot, but he also got fouled a lot, and because he was so big the refs just let it go because it didn't seem to bother his shot sometimes. So, it sort of evened out maybe.
He'd be hard to officiate. He was so big he could just lean back and move anyone off of him.

Halfcan

06-02-2011, 10:25 AM

I cant believe he NEVER learned how to make a free throw-I don't get it-easiest shot ever.

Think of how many more points he could have had??

rocknrolla

06-02-2011, 12:50 PM

I want to see Shaq and Barkley in the TNT studio together. I'll watch the NBA just for that!
Posted via Mobile Device

Tribal Warfare

06-02-2011, 12:55 PM

I want to see Shaq and Barkley in the TNT studio together. I'll watch the NBA just for that!
Posted via Mobile Device

group Reggie and Charles, now that's always funny when they share the mic.

Amnorix

06-02-2011, 12:58 PM

I cant believe he NEVER learned how to make a free throw-I don't get it-easiest shot ever.

Think of how many more points he could have had??

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell were also completely pathetic free throw shooters. What we have to accept is that for some people, it's just not something that can be overcome by alot of hard work or whatever. Heck, Wilt tried shooting them like a little kid, to find a technique that worked.

vailpass

06-02-2011, 12:59 PM

Comparing basketball players from different eras is foolish.

Pennywise

06-02-2011, 01:09 PM

Wilt's greatest record is he never fouled out of a game.

That and the 100 pts in a game will never be broken.

milkman

06-02-2011, 08:30 PM

I cant believe he NEVER learned how to make a free throw-I don't get it-easiest shot ever.

Think of how many more points he could have had??

I've always felt that big men who do most of their work in the paint, never really developing an outside game and shot never quite figure out that a line drive to the basket is not going to go into the basket comsistently.

I also always felt that those guys, Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and others like them would have benefitted from practicing at the foul line on their knees so that they could get the feel of, and get used to, putting a little arc on the shot.