5 year old KC girl, may face murder charges in drowning

[Deberg_1990]

Wow...incredible......i dont even know how you can charge a 5 year old with something like that? IMO their mind isnt capable of knowing the consequences of killing someone.



http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/08/2937494/suspect-in-kc-toddlers-drowning.html


An 18-month-old boy’s drowning death in a bathtub last week is now being investigated as a possible homicide, police told The Kansas City Star on Wednesday.

But even more shocking to authorities is that their suspect is a 5-year-old girl.

Kansas City police and local juvenile court officials said they could not remember ever investigating such a serious case involving such a young suspect.

“I’ve been here 26 years, and I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Mary Marquez, a juvenile officer with Jackson County Family Court.

A national expert said cases involving a 5-year-old homicide suspect are extremely rare — so rare that statistics are hard to find. Available FBI data show that the agency started tracking homicide suspects from age 5 to 8 in 2006. Since then, just three suspects have been counted in that category.

“I’d be surprised if you had one (5-year-old) every five years,” said Melissa Sickmund, chief of systems research at the National Center for Juvenile Justice. “It’s a unique set of circumstances and a very sad set of circumstances.”

The victim, 18-month-old Jermane Johnson Jr., lived in the St. Louis area but was being cared for by relatives in the 2600 block of Elmwood Avenue in Kansas City. He had been staying at the house for several weeks, police said.

His father, Jermane Johnson Sr., couldn’t be reached by phone Wednesday. But on his Facebook wall, Johnson posted this note Monday: “I just got ask the hardest question that no parent should never answer. What kind of caskets do I want to put my son in.”

Later, he asked for donations to help take his son’s body home.

According to police:

On Friday, an adult left a 16-year-old girl, who reportedly has mental disabilities, in charge of several younger children, including Jermane, so the adult could pick up a relative of Jermane’s at a bus stop.

The relative had come into town from St. Louis to retrieve Jermane and take him home.

While no adults were at the home, the 5-year-old girl allegedly dragged Jermane into the tub, which had not been drained after other children took baths.

Police initially looked at the case as an accidental drowning. But the 5-year-old’s statements to specially trained social workers floored police.

She allegedly indicated that she didn’t like the toddler because he “made too much noise,” and “cried too much,” police said. She indicated that she drowned him on purpose, police said.

Does she actually understand the meaning of drowning? Or the permanence of death?

Sickmund, of the National Center for Juvenile Justice, says no.

“The mind of a 5-year-old is not really capable of formalizing intent for homicide,” she said. “There’s research that would have you question if a 14-year-old should be fully responsible.”

Marquez, of Jackson County’s Family Court, agreed and said authorities must prove intent even in juvenile court.

“With such a young age, there is no way you could prove intent,” she said.

Some states have minimum ages at which children are assumed to have criminal responsibility. Missouri does not have a set minimum age, but Marquez said the age officials typically use is around 9 or 10, although each case is unique. Officials consider the child’s history, age and crime before making a decision, she said.

“We do have kids as young as 8 or 9 on diversion for shoplifting because they understand that is wrong,” she said. “But for children younger than 9, we wouldn’t really consider diversion.”

Diversion allows juveniles to meet with a court worker who helps them stay out of trouble instead of facing a judge.

Younger children are evaluated for mental health or other services, Marquez said. She said she received a referral from the Missouri Children’s Division for assistance about the child in question and has filed a child-in-need-of-care petition.

The petition, if granted, would give the court jurisdiction to see what services the child needs. It may or may not involve removing the child from the home.

Marquez said she could not divulge where the child was staying, but police said they never arrested the girl.

Sickmund said services can reveal problems within the home and root causes of juvenile delinquency.

“If the child was wanting to harm somebody, why would the child think that was the right thing to do?” she asked.

Research shows that juvenile offenders who come into the system younger than 13 are more likely to offend again, Sickmund said.

“So if you see kids at that age, don’t ignore them,” she said. “Pay attention to them because you are very likely to see them again. You can help them now as opposed to punishing them later.”

The Jackson County medical examiner’s office has not issued a final ruling on the case, so police have not yet counted it as a homicide. Police said they sent their supplemental reports to the office after the girl was interviewed.

Police said they are still looking into other aspects of the case, including the welfare of other children in the home and the decision to leave the children alone Friday. Police were called to the drowning just before midnight Friday.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/08/2937494/suspect-in-kc-toddlers-drowning.html#ixzz1OsKthoQA

[CrazyPhuD]

Fuck yea gas that bitch now or you'll have to do it again later!

[Phobia]

I can't possibly imagine. Even if she does everything right from this moment until death she's still going to be messed up badly.

[Extra Point]

The parents are to blame for this.

[Ace Gunner]

how did a 5yo girl get an 18mo into a bathtub in such limited time??

[MOhillbilly]

a 5 year old will not face murder charges. JFC.

[kepp]

The parents are to blame for this.

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

[blaise]

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

With a bathtub full of water.

[RedNFeisty]

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

Completely agree.

[Lzen]

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

This.

Why couldn't the adult take the children with her? Why couldn't the relative from St. Louis get their own ride?

[blaise]

This.

Why couldn't the adult take the children with her? Why couldn't the relative from St. Louis get their own ride?

Yeah, I would make someone take a bus or a cab or walk before I left an 18 month old home with a mentally disabled person as their caregiver. An 18 month old can get into trouble in about 5 seconds. Picking up something they shouldn't and putting it in their mouth, going down stairs, anything.
It's beyond comprehension.

[DaFace]

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

Yeah, no kidding. What the girl did is likely the mental equivalent of ripping the head off of a doll. They just have no concept of death at that age.

[Frazod]

If you can even call them that. Leaving numerous children, including an infant, under the watch of a mentally-challenged teenager? They should stand trial, not the little girl.

Regardless of whether or the babysitter is retarded or not, who would expect one child to do something like this to another child? Sounds to me like this little monster was a ticking time bomb, and it probably wouldn't have mattered who was at home at the time. It's not like a competent babysitter or a parent is directly watching children in his/her charge every second.

They say that future serial killers start off by torturing/killing animals at a young age. What can we expect from someone who is killing other people at 5? Fuck.

[MOhillbilly]

Yeah, no kidding. What the girl did is likely the mental equivalent of ripping the head off of a doll. They just have no concept of death at that age.

at 5 children are just starting to understand right and wrong w/ a strong parent. A child with weak parents will possibly not know til they get into school and the system attempts to do the parents job.

[kepp]

Regardless of whether or the babysitter is retarded or not, who would expect one child to do something like this to another child? Sounds to me like this little monster was a ticking time bomb, and it probably wouldn't have mattered who was at home at the time. It's not like a competent babysitter or a parent is directly watching children in his/her charge every second.

They say that future serial killers start off by torturing/killing animals at a young age. What can we expect from someone who is killing other people at 5? ****.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/images/smilies/spock.gif

[BigRichard]

Regardless of whether or the babysitter is retarded or not, who would expect one child to do something like this to another child? Sounds to me like this little monster was a ticking time bomb, and it probably wouldn't have mattered who was at home at the time. It's not like a competent babysitter or a parent is directly watching children in his/her charge every second.

They say that future serial killers start off by torturing/killing animals at a young age. What can we expect from someone who is killing other people at 5? ****.

I hope my sarcasm meter is broke.

[Frazod]

I hope my sarcasm meter is broke.

I hope my dumbass meter is broke.

What do think we should do, give her a time out and ground her from her PSP for a couple of weeks? :rolleyes:

[DaFace]

I hope my dumbass meter is broke.

What do think we should do, give her a time out and ground her from her PSP for a couple of weeks? :rolleyes:

I stole from a grocery store when I was a kid. Should I have been jailed?

[Frazod]

I stole from a grocery store when I was a kid. Should I have been jailed?

Did you murder the clerk on the way out?

[MOhillbilly]

Did you murder the clerk on the way out?

yes,always.

[Frazod]

yes,always.

Reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song:

He'd killed twenty men
By the time he was ten
He was an unruly kid

[Hammock Parties]

Women...they're starting early these days.

[teedubya]

'Merica

[ModSocks]

Regardless of whether or the babysitter is retarded or not, who would expect one child to do something like this to another child? Sounds to me like this little monster was a ticking time bomb, and it probably wouldn't have mattered who was at home at the time. It's not like a competent babysitter or a parent is directly watching children in his/her charge every second.

They say that future serial killers start off by torturing/killing animals at a young age. What can we expect from someone who is killing other people at 5? ****.

I kinda agree with you to an extent. I doubt this girl was going to end up a serial killer or anything like that, but she should be held responsible for her actions.

Now I'm not saying she should be indicted for Murder, but she sounds like a bad seed, and it's impossible to watch kids EVERY freaking second. They're going to get into something at some point. Some more often than others. Much more often.

I blame the parents.

[Brock]

I kinda agree with you to an extent. I doubt this girl was going to end up a serial killer or anything like that, but she should be held responsible for her actions.

Uh, how?

[DJ's left nut]

The girl doesn't understand homicide.

The problem is that the girl clearly has some emotional and psychological issues that are going to continue to manifest themselves in violent behavior. If she 'dragged' the kid there, this wasn't a cuddly little act she undertook.

That kid is ruined. She's going to be one of those girls you see that gets cold-cocked by the police when she tries to fight one of them. She's going to have anger and authority issues throughout her life, IMO.

There may be something to be said for getting her 'incarcerated' and out of the care of the family that raised her to be like that. It may be the only chance she has.

[ModSocks]

Uh, how?

How? I don't know. But this can't just be some slap on the hand. It is very possible for a 5 year old to understand the concept of death. She may not understand the ramifications of her actions, but she understands that what she was doing wasn't right.



There may be something to be said for getting her 'incarcerated' and out of the care of the family that raised her to be like that. It may be the only chance she has.

[MOhillbilly]

How? I don't know. But this can't just be some slap on the hand. It is very possible for a 5 year old to understand the concept of death. She may not understand the ramifications of her actions, but she understands that what she was doing wasn't right.

bullshit

[ModSocks]

bullshit

Explain.

Do you honestly believe that a 5 year can't understand death? I think it would foolish to think that.

I KNOW it would be foolish to think that.

[MOhillbilly]

Explain.

Do you honestly believe that a 5 year can't understand death? I think it would foolish to think that.

I KNOW it would be foolish to think that.


a 5 year old has zero understandin of logic. NONE.

[KCUnited]

"makes too much noise", "cried too much". Heard that from the adults around, probably thought she was doing them a favor by drowning the kid while they were gone.

[ModSocks]

a 5 year old has zero understandin of logic. NONE.

Wrong. I KNOW your wrong.

I have two memories of my mother. They are two of the earliest memories I have. Only two. She died when I was 3.

One of those memories is of her in a casket. I Remember the walls, I remember the casket, I remember standing between my grandmothers legs, I remember the rolling green hills and most of all, I remember crying and KNOWING that my mother was dead and that she wasn't coming back.

I knew that at 3.

You can't tell me that a 5 year old can't understand the concept of death. It's all over TV, I'm sure she's overheard conversations, possibly even played it out with her friends.

We under estimate children far to often these days.

[ModSocks]

"makes too much noise", "cried too much". Heard that from the adults around, probably thought she was doing them a favor by drowning the kid while they were gone.

Quite possibly right IMO.

[kepp]

Explain.

Do you honestly believe that a 5 year can't understand death? I think it would foolish to think that.

I KNOW it would be foolish to think that.

Can a 5 year old have some AWARENESS of death...sure. Understanding? No way.

[ModSocks]

Can a 5 year old have some AWARENESS of death...sure. Understanding? No way.

If she is aware of death then she understands what it is.

[DJ's left nut]

Wrong. I KNOW your wrong.

I have two memories of my mother. They are two of the earliest memories I have. Only two. She died when I was 3.

One of those memories is of her in a casket. I Remember the walls, I remember the casket, I remember standing between my grandmothers legs, I remember the rolling green hills and most of all, I remember crying and KNOWING that my mother was dead and that she wasn't coming back.

I knew that at 3.

You can't tell me that a 5 year old can't understand the concept of death. It's all over TV, I'm sure she's overheard conversations, possibly even played it out with her friends.

We under estimate children far to often these days.

I believe a child can understand the finality of death without understanding the gravity of murder.

She may know that the infant is now gone, but I very much doubt she recognizes the underlying heinousness of actually extinguishing that life.

Understanding death and understanding murder are entirely different animals.

[DJ's left nut]

If she is aware of death then she understands what it is.

I'm aware of nuclear fusion, I have absolutely no understanding of it.

Your statement is fundamentally inaccurate.

[MOhillbilly]

Wrong. I KNOW your wrong.

I have two memories of my mother. They are two of the earliest memories I have. Only two. She died when I was 3.

One of those memories is of her in a casket. I Remember the walls, I remember the casket, I remember standing between my grandmothers legs, I remember the rolling green hills and most of all, I remember crying and KNOWING that my mother was dead and that she wasn't coming back.

I knew that at 3.

You can't tell me that a 5 year old can't understand the concept of death. It's all over TV, I'm sure she's overheard conversations, possibly even played it out with her friends.

We under estimate children far to often these days.

your attempt to put something like a 5 year old understanding death in a logical context is illogical.
Its really no different from attempting to put a insane persons actions in a sane context. umpossible.

a childs brain at 5 is just developing the basic understandings of right and wrong. Its more like a dogs brain than a developed human mind.

[ModSocks]

I believe a child can understand the finality of death without understanding the gravity of murder.

She may know that the infant is now gone, but I very much doubt she recognizes the underlying heinousness of actually extinguishing that life.

Understanding death and understanding murder are entirely different animals.

I agree.

That's why i stated earlier that she should be charged for "Something" but maybe not murder.

I never said she has a concept of MURDER, but she does have a concept of death.

She knew what she did. She just didn't know how bad it was.

[ModSocks]

your attempt to put something like a 5 year old understanding death in a logical context is illogical.
Its really no different from attempting to put a insane persons actions in a sane context. umpossible.

a childs brain at 5 is just developing the basic understandings of right and wrong. Its more like a dogs brain than a developed human mind.

But does she understand death?

I'm not saying she understands murder. I've never said she should be labeled a murderer. A 5 year wouldn't understand the consequences of her actions. I'm sure she understood at the time that what she was doing was wrong, just no concept of how wrong.

Either way she be charged with something, just not murder.

[stevieray]

wow. how horrible. just horrible.

...for everyone involved.

[ModSocks]

I'm aware of nuclear fusion, I have absolutely no understanding of it.

Your statement is fundamentally inaccurate.

Let be fair here, death does not = nuclear fusion. Death is black and white. It's not a difficult concept for a 5 year old.

[DJ's left nut]

Let be fair here, death does not = nuclear fusion. Death is black and white. It's not a difficult concept for a 5 year old.

Okay, pregnancy is a black and white as it gets: There's a baby in there.

A 5 year old is aware of a pregnancy but in no way understands it.

If you want to argue that the kid may actually understand death, I'll certainly listen. But an awareness of an issue does not equal an understanding of it, no matter how black and white said issue is.

[4th and Long]

You can't tell me that a 5 year old can't understand the concept of death.
You are making an assumption that every person has the same mental capacity. I can tell you for a fact, that is simply not the case.

[Deberg_1990]

But does she understand death?

I'm not saying she understands murder. I've never said she should be labeled a murderer. A 5 year wouldn't understand the consequences of her actions. I'm sure she understood at the time that what she was doing was wrong, just no concept of how wrong.

Either way she be charged with something, just not murder.


She probably understands what death means but just on the surface. To qoute the story, she doesnt understand the "permanence of death".

[MOhillbilly]

But does she understand death?

I'm not saying she understands murder. I've never said she should be labeled a murderer. A 5 year wouldn't understand the consequences of her actions. I'm sure she understood at the time that what she was doing was wrong, just no concept of how wrong.

Either way she be charged with something, just not murder.

Of course a child of 5 doesnt understand the finality of death. your event is drawn from memories, and the mind has a way of adding or subtracting thoughts about memories through the years. And when you are young many times those thoughts become truths about the experience to the point where even if they are or arent true it has little relevance to the true event.

Everyone but the the photo few do this.

[4th and Long]

Of course a child of 5 doesnt understand the finality of death. your event is drawn from memories, and the mind has a way of adding or subtracting thoughts about memories through the years. And when you are young many times those thoughts become truths about the experience to the point where even if they are or arent true it has little relevance to the true event.

Everyone but the the photo few do this.
That about covers it.

[ModSocks]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

When this little girl goes and plays outside and smashes an ant, she understands that the ant is dead and not coming back. It's gone forever.

When she dragged this little boy into the tub and submerged him under water to kill him, she understood that once he was dead, he wasn't coming back.

That's the way I see it.

[Brock]

How? I don't know. But this can't just be some slap on the hand. It is very possible for a 5 year old to understand the concept of death. She may not understand the ramifications of her actions, but she understands that what she was doing wasn't right.

What punishment do you recommend?

[4th and Long]

What punishment do you recommend?
http://rjsciurus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/witch.jpg
BURN HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(tic)

[ModSocks]

What punishment do you recommend?

I have no idea. I have no idea what kind of punishments exist for crimes similar to this.

But I don't think "nothing" is appropriate either.

[Lonewolf Ed]

When I was 5, I was in kindergarten. We didn't slaughter one another. Sometimes, a fight would erupt over a toy or whatever, and there would be the occasional fat lip or bloody nose, but it was always a one hit, two kids crying ordeal and then it was over. What this girl did was not just a kid being a kid, not understanding her actions. She lacks cognition to completely understand the ramifications, but she damned sure should know it was very wrong to do.

[4th and Long]

When I was 5, I was in kindergarten. We didn't slaughter one another. Sometimes, a fight would erupt over a toy or whatever, and there would be the occasional fat lip or bloody nose, but it was always a one hit, two kids crying ordeal and then it was over. What this girl did was not just a kid being a kid, not understanding her actions. She lacks cognition to completely understand the ramifications, but she damned sure should know it was very wrong to do.
The child may also have a learning disability or she's the product of today's shitty parenting.

[Lonewolf Ed]

The child may also have a learning disability or she's the product of today's shitty parenting.

True enough. She needs to be institutionalized at least.

[4th and Long]

True enough. She needs to be institutionalized at least.
What if, just for the sake of argument, the following were to be found out after you had this child institutionalized?

She, along with the rest of her siblings, were subject to being locked into a closet by their parents for being too loud.

Is it still the child's fault? Shoul;d the child be institutionalized or should the parents be at fault?

You need ALL THE FACTS before passing judgement and imposing sentence.

[Lonewolf Ed]

What if, just for the sake of argument, the following were to be found out after you had this child institutionalized?

She, along with the rest of her siblings, were subject to being locked into a closet by their parents for being too loud.

Is it still the child's fault? Shoul;d the child be institutionalized or should the parents be at fault?

You need ALL THE FACTS before passing judgement and imposing sentence.

If that is the case, then she is plagued with mental problems from abuse, and yes, she'd still need to be put in one. An 18 month old is dead. No matter what the cause behind the 5 year old's actions, she can't just be given a free pass for that. She needs help, and badly.

[4th and Long]

If that is the case, then she is plagued with mental problems from abuse, and yes, she'd still need to be put in one. An 18 month old is dead. No matter what the cause behind the 5 year old's actions, she can't just be given a free pass for that. She needs help, and badly.
It's unfortunate that your compassion is limited to the deceased child only.

[Lonewolf Ed]

It's unfortunate that your compassion is limited to the deceased child only.

It isn't, honestly. The 5 year old needs help. To just give her a pat on the head and maybe say don't do that anymore won't do a thing for her. I don't think she should be put on death row, but something needs to be done to get her the help she needs. Once a few years go by and her understanding grows, this will likely have a massive impact on her and in a negative way. I also think the parents involved should be evaluated to see if they are competent to care for the other children, too.

[4th and Long]

It isn't, honestly. The 5 year old needs help. To just give her a pat on the head and maybe say don't do that anymore won't do a thing for her. I don't think she should be put on death row, but something needs to be done to get her the help she needs. Once a few years go by and her understanding grows, this will likely have a massive impact on her and in a negative way.
Your solution, in your own words, is rather harsh, especially without all the facts yet revealed in the case.
She needs to be institutionalized at least.

[BigRichard]

I hope my dumbass meter is broke.

What do think we should do, give her a time out and ground her from her PSP for a couple of weeks? :rolleyes:

Are you from Texas by chance?

[kepp]

True enough. She needs to be institutionalized at least.

She definitely needs to be evaluated, that's for sure, but "institutionalized" is a stretch at this point. It great deal of it depends on what her home life has been.

[Frazod]

True enough. She needs to be institutionalized at least.

For a very long time.

Probably won't fly well with the "just give her a stern talking to" crowd, though.

[Iowanian]

Terrible situation.

I've seen people calling for the scalp of the sitter. She may be a morAn, and as a parent I'd be upset if the sitter fell asleep while watching my kids. That said, I'm a good parent in a stable home, from a stable home, and i've fallen asleep before while watching my own young children. You've worked late all week, gotten up early and you turn on an episode of Max and Ruby to silence the villagers, and wake up realizing you've missed 15 minutes. It happens.

That said, this child doesn't need to be punished. This child needs to be taken into a stable home environment and counseled heavily. This is a completely different situation than say, the 15 year old kid who shot my friend in the head twice with a shotgun and then hid the casings and made up a story about an intruder.

[Titty Meat]

They had this on the news last night and an expert explained how the child isn't developed enough to understand what she did. This is a very sad story and I can't believe the DA is dumb enough to seek charges but I guess when 50% of your cities murders go unsolved you settle for what you can get?

[4th and Long]

an expert explained how the child isn't developed enough to understand what she did.
Where the **** is Lonewolf Ed so I can say, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

[ModSocks]

Where the **** is Lonewolf Ed so I can say, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Yeah uhm kay,

The same expert that says the same thing about 14 year olds as referenced in the OP?

Any "expert" that says 14 y/o's are too young to understand murder can kiss my ass.

[Easy 6]

The child may also have a learning disability or she's the product of today's shitty parenting.

This.

Intensive counseling/evaluation for many years & possibly removed from parents home? yes.

Filing charges & handing down sentences against 5 year olds? certainly not.

[MOhillbilly]

Trebuchet solves all that ills em.

[4th and Long]

Yeah uhm kay,

The same expert that says the same thing about 14 year olds as referenced in the OP?

Any "expert" that says 14 y/o's are too young to understand murder can kiss my ass.
Because you're expertly qualified to pass judgement ... how again?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

:tinfoil: Earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, wierd weather, a rise of killer 5 year old girls. They are all connected and we are all doomed!!!!

[BigRichard]

:tinfoil: Earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, wierd weather, a rise of killer 5 year old girls. They are all connected and we are all doomed!!!!

2012 bitches. Start stocking up now.

[Frazod]

Trebuchet solves all that ills em.

http://cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/032011/movie%20quotes-3.jpg

[listopencil]

If she is aware of death then she understands what it is.


Are you kidding me? Adults in our own society still don't agree on the nature of death. All we know is that the physical body ceases to function, and we can agree on that concept alone.

[ModSocks]

Because you're expertly qualified to pass judgement ... how again?

It's called common sense. This "expert" would use the same argument for a 14 year old. Had this story been about a 14 y/o however, no one in this thread wouldn't have that kid burned at the stake.

You have your own opinion on it as it relates to a 5 year old, fine. I may not agree with it, but i can see your argument.

But when you try to throw this "expert" at us like it's suppose to somehow validate your point, i'm merely pointing out the flaw in your "expert".

[ModSocks]

All we know is that the physical body ceases to function, and we can agree on that concept alone.

And that's all we're talking about. We're not talking about the ****ing meaning of life and where we go when we die.

[listopencil]

And that's all we're talking about. We're not talking about the ****ing meaning of life and where we go when we die.

No, we are talking about whether a 5 year old recognizes the finality of death. I am pointing out that adults considered wise in our culture don't accept the finality of death but you expect a 5 year old to do so.

[4th and Long]

It's called common sense.
You can list "your common sense" right next to your compassion for the 5 year old child. Both are nonexistent.

[4th and Long]

But when you try to throw this "expert" at us like it's suppose to somehow validate your point, i'm merely pointing out the flaw in your "expert".
No, you're pointing out your OPINION of this expert, whom you know nothing about, have never met and have no idea, in a reality based sense, how qualified they are to make this determination.

Talk about "common sense."

[FAX]

At 5 years old, she may set the record for death row inmate longevity. Given all the appeals open to her, she'll probably be eating prison food and exercising for an hour in the yard for about 90 years or so.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

At 5 years old, she may set the record for death row inmate longevity. Given all the appeals open to her, she'll probably be eating prison food and exercising for an hour in the yard for about 90 years or so.

FAX

The Department of Corrections is going to have to put one of these in the prison yard:

http://www.ivgstores.com/prodimages-cdls/GP/gp-Frontier-L.jpg

[seamonster]

Yeah, no kidding. What the girl did is likely the mental equivalent of ripping the head off of a doll. They just have no concept of death at that age.

my little brother was born around the time I was five and I was pretty shaken up when he nearly died from some virus or whatever. Even at five kids understand what being dead means. that schema is formed by insticts more than likely from birth.

[Brock]

my little brother was born around the time I was five and I was pretty shaken up when he nearly died from some virus or whatever. Even at five kids understand what being dead means. that schema is formed by insticts more than likely from birth.

For some people, maybe.

[ModSocks]

my little brother was born around the time I was five and I was pretty shaken up when he nearly died from some virus or whatever. Even at five kids understand what being dead means. that schema is formed by insticts more than likely from birth.

Some people just can't accept that kids are more aware & smarter than what we adults want to give them credit for.

Like when I referenced my mother's death. Mo said I may not have felt that way until later.

Uh, no.

I wasn't crying because someone pinched me...I was crying because my mom was gone forever. I knew what death was. And I know what I remember. It's a memory that has not changed, it's one of the first I ever had. I remember what I felt and I remember what I saw. I knew death at 3 years old.

Kids can understand death at 5 years old.

[ModSocks]

Quick question.

Do any of you think this girl knows what death is NOW? Or after all of this, she still has no understanding?

[Lonewolf Ed]

Where the **** is Lonewolf Ed so I can say, "I TOLD YOU SO!"

I was off having a 6 pack with my secondary dad.

[FAX]

Some people just can't accept that kids are more aware & smarter than what we adults want to give them credit for.

Like when I referenced my mother's death. Mo said I may not have felt that way until later.

Uh, no.

I wasn't crying because someone pinched me...I was crying because my mom was gone forever. I knew what death was. And I know what I remember. It's a memory that has not changed, it's one of the first I ever had. I remember what I felt and I remember what I saw. I knew death at 3 years old.

Kids can understand death at 5 years old.

A little off subject but, for a first/initial memory, that sucks pretty hard. No offense to your family, Mr. Detoxing, but I'm not sure I would have taken a 3 year-old to an open casket funeral ... especially if it was their mom.

That's the kind of thing that stays with you ... in a variety of ways.

FAX

[ModSocks]

A little off subject but, for a first/initial memory, that sucks pretty hard. No offense to your family, Mr. Detoxing, but I'm not sure I would have taken a 3 year-old to an open casket funeral ... especially if it was their mom.

That's the kind of thing that stays with you ... in a variety of ways.

FAX

None taken.

Yeah....none of my earliest memories are very good. My other memory of my mother is far worse thanks to my POS dad. But whateva, it's what you make of it. Can't sit around mad at the world.

Hope this little girl understands that and grows from of instead of die from it.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I'd bet that if we exhumed your moms casket, many of your memories would be incorrect. Of course their is no way of knowing.....

Relating your memories of the funeral in a different fashion; Remember that adults that are interviewed as eyewitnesses often fail to properly identify suspects. Your conscience forms those memories from many different places. The event, the stories handed down about the event...etc.

That kid has zero concept of death. Because if the child really knew what death is, and I'm trying to keep this very simple, she wouldn't have done it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Chief Pote]

at 5 children are just starting to understand right and wrong w/ a strong parent. A child with weak parents will possibly not know til they get into school and the system attempts to do the parents job.

Don't beat me up Mo, but I disagree. By the age of 5, most kids understand the basic meaning of compassion. They might not understand the consequences if they don't practice compassion. The child knew that the 18 month old child would no longer be around if she drowned him. The kid needs help before she hurts again, probably herself.

[Backwards Masking]

Wow. Don't have the slightest clue on what I'd do with the 5 yr. old if I were the judge of this case (I'd throw the book at the parents for leaving their kids with somebody who's clinically mentally impaired).

I know if this kid does anything remotely violent later on she's obviously wired for psychotic violence and should be behind bars for life (if not something harsher).

[CrazyPhuD]

The Department of Corrections is going to have to put one of these in the prison yard:

http://www.ivgstores.com/prodimages-cdls/GP/gp-Frontier-L.jpg

Well the nice bonus is that it would allow the other prisoners to identify and kill off the audiophiles that much more quickly!

[FAX]

If I were her parents, I'd give her a henway.

FAX

[4th and Long]

If I were her parents, I'd give her a henway.

FAX
I know how this one plays out but just for you, Mr. .FAX, I will play the part of the straight man.

*ahem*

What's a henway?
Posted via Mobile Device

[FAX]

I know how this one plays out but just for you, Mr. .FAX, I will play the part of the straight man.

*ahem*

What's a henway?
Posted via Mobile Device

About 2 pounds.

ROFL

FAX

[4th and Long]

About 2 pounds.

ROFL

FAX
WAKA WAKA!!! - Fozzy Bear

I am rather surprised, Mr. FAX, that you did not suggest that they also give her a matter.
Posted via Mobile Device

[FAX]

WAKA WAKA!!! - Fozzy Bear

I am rather surprised, Mr. FAX, that you did not suggest that they also give her a matter.
Posted via Mobile Device

What's a matter?

FAX

[4th and Long]

What's a matter?

FAX
Not a thing. I'm fine. Thanks for asking. :p

[Bill Brasky]

The parents are to blame for this.

This. Not the child's fault. If the parents were there to care for the crying infant, the 5 year old wouldn't have been put in that situation.