Clark hunt has to spend money this year with this in CBA

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/15/next-cba-likely-will-require-plenty-of-teams-to-spend-plenty-of-cash/


Next CBA likely will require plenty of teams to spend plenty of cash

Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2011, 2:58 PM EDT

AP
When it comes to working out a new labor deal that entails the players taking a smaller piece of an ever-growing pie, one for the tools for persuading them to accept a per-dollar reduction arises from tightening the difference between the salary cap and salary floor — and converting the salary floor into an annual minimum cash expenditure.

The offer made by the owners on March 11 included a commitment to spend 90 percent of the salary cap in cash. This would prevent teams from relying on “dead money” arising from trading or cutting players with large contracts in order to meet the minimum, and it would require all teams to spend a lot of money.

If this provision makes it into the final deal, it means that teams on the low side of the spending equation (and several were millions below what the cap floor would have been in 2010) will have to spend a lot of money in 2011.

That money could be spent via pursuing free agents, and there will be plenty of free agents available if, as expected, the minimum threshold moves from six year back to four. Or it could be spent on young players already on the roster who merit extensions.

Either way, the cash will be flowing in 2011 — and the teams that have been holding back will need to find a way to bridge the gap.

[Easy 6]

Break out the wallet Clarkie! we're making a big push this year.

[vailpass]

Prima facie this looks like a sound move that will benefit players and fans. The competitive owners won't notice much of a change and the bottom-feeders like the Bidwills in Arizona will be forced to act like NFL owners or GTFO.

[ModSocks]

Just means that Flowers, Carr, Hali and Bowe should all be resigned.

[Bowser]

Prima facie this looks like a sound move that will benefit players and fans. The competitive owners won't notice much of a change and the bottom-feeders like the Bidwills in Arizona will be forced to act like NFL owners or GTFO.

Good.

[BossChief]

Carr
Hali
Bowe
Flowers

We shouldnt have a problem spending cash

[BossChief]

Just means that Flowers, Carr, Hali and Bowe should all be resigned.

Damn

[Amnorix]

Seems odd. Dead money arises not from a failure to spend money, but rather the acceleration of the timeframe over which money PREVIOUSLY SPENT gets pro rated.

Now big signing bonuses have another penalty -- if you cut the guy before the end of his contract, not only do you have dead money on the cap (money you paid out years ago), now you're not even going to get credit for it to meet the minimum cash pay requirement.

[chasedude]

In the end, all us fans are paying for this. I see ticket prices increase much larger than in the past.

[Brock]

In the end, all us fans are paying for this. I see ticket prices increase much larger than in the past.

Right, because they're not already maxed out.

[Amnorix]

errr...you guys cheering get how this works, right.

Take a hypothetical player -- we'll call him Mr. Haynesworth. He gets a $100MM contract -- $40MM signing bonus and $10MM per year over six years. The $40MM gets pro-rated for cap purposes over the six year term of the deal, so $6.66MM per year, plus $10MM per year for a total of $16.66MM on the cap for each year of the deal. (obviously, I'm assuming some unrealistic things like salary flat over the life of the contract, etc., but whatever).

After year three, our hypothetical Mr. Haynesworth establishes that he is, in fact, the turd in the punch bowl, so he gets cut. The last three years of his salary ($30MM in our hypothetical), gets ignored, because it wasn't guaranteed or anything. Cap impact is cap relief of $10MM in year four (the salary he otherwise would have gotten that year). But the last three years of his $40MM signing bonus (in this case $20MM) accelerates. So they have a total cap hit of $20MM, which is only slightly higher than the $16.66MM cap number they would have had if they had kept the player.

But under this system, as I understand it, the actual $20MM they paid to Haynesworth three years ago goes POOF for purposes of calculating whether they met the minimum. They NEVER get credit for paying out that money. HTF does that make sense?

[vailpass]

errr...you guys cheering get how this works, right.

Take a hypothetical player -- we'll call him Mr. Haynesworth. He gets a $100MM contract -- $40MM signing bonus and $10MM per year over six years. The $40MM gets pro-rated for cap purposes over the six year term of the deal, so $6.66MM per year, plus $10MM per year for a total of $16.66MM on the cap for each year of the deal. (obviously, I'm assuming some unrealistic things like salary flat over the life of the contract, etc., but whatever).

After year three, our hypothetical Mr. Haynesworth establishes that he is, in fact, the turd in the punch bowl, so he gets cut. The last three years of his salary ($30MM in our hypothetical), gets ignored, because it wasn't guaranteed or anything. Cap impact is cap relief of $10MM in year four (the salary he otherwise would have gotten that year. But the last three years of his $40MM signing bonus (in this case $20MM) accelerates. So they have a total cap hit of $20MM, which is only slightly higher than the $16.66MM cap hit they would have had if they had kept the player.

But under this system, as I understand it, the actual $20MM they paid to Haynesworth three years ago goes POOF for purposes of calculating whether they met the minimum. They NEVER get credit for paying out that money. HTF does that make sense?


We have not yet seen the terms of the new CBA including how a minimum/maximum would be calculated. If they are changing a key compensation component it is not unreasonable to think they will examine, and perhaps ammend, the calculation method as well.

[Hoover]

So then is this they players wanting more guaranteed money in contracts?

[Rausch]

Seems to me like they've been tight on the purse the last few years anyway thinking about this. Perhaps that's just my spin on it and Pioli just isn't going to spend $$$ on a free agent but I doubt that as well...

[salame]

we should spend some $$$ on depth

[RealSNR]

Carr
Hali
Bowe
Flowers

We shouldnt have a problem spending cashI'm cool with that

[Titty Meat]

Carr
Hali
Bowe
Flowers

We shouldnt have a problem spending cash

I'd hope we wouldn't tie up a bunch of money into the least important position of the defense.

[beach tribe]

I'd hope we wouldn't tie up a bunch of money into the least important position of the defense.

Are you saying we shouldn't sign Carr, or Flowers?

If you're talkng about the secondary you need to come out of the 90's. This is a passing league, and and the importance of a good secondary has pulled up even with the importance of just about all other positions on the defense, not including pass rushers, and maybe a STUD NT.

[The Franchise]

I'd hope we wouldn't tie up a bunch of money into the least important position of the defense.

It's to late. Tyson Jackson is making a shitload of money.

[Titty Meat]

Are you saying we shouldn't sign Carr, or Flowers?

If you're talkng about the secondary you need to come out of the 90's. This is a passing league, and and the importance of a good secondary has pulled up even with the importance of just about all other positions on the defense, not including pass rushers, and maybe a STUD NT.

Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Saints, Colts all disagree with your take. The best way to cover the pass is with a pass rush.

I'd rather re-sign one of those guys and use the other cash to re-sign Bowe & Hali and possibly having enough to land a big free agent.

[DeezNutz]

Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Saints, Colts all disagree with your take. The best way to cover the pass is with a pass rush.

And the best way to make a decent pass rush look much better is with with lock-down corners.

If we don't retain Carr and Flowers, I'll be ****ing pissed.

[beach tribe]

Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Saints, Colts all disagree with your take. The best way to cover the pass is with a pass rush.

I'd rather re-sign one of those guys and use the other cash to re-sign Bowe & Hali and possibly having enough to land a big free agent.

Which is why I excluded pass rushers. Hmm, weird.

And I'm sure the 2008 Patriots are happy that they had Hobbs locked up on Burress with their perfect season on the line.

[Titty Meat]

And the best way to make a decent pass rush look much better is with with lock-down corners.

If we don't retain Carr and Flowers, I'll be ****ing pissed.

So if both ask for Stanford Routt money you'll pay them that and lock up a good portion of your cap money in the corner back position? That doesn't make any sense.

[Titty Meat]

Which is why I excluded pass rushers. Hmm, weird.

And I'm sure the 2008 Patriots are happy that they had Hobbs locked up on Burress with their perfect season on the line.

LMAO Yea Burress had 2 catches the whole game

[The Franchise]

LMAO Yea Burress had 2 catches the whole game

Yeah......one for a TD.....your point?

[Titty Meat]

Yeah......one for a TD.....your point?

LMAO They gave up 17 points that game. The Cornerbacks WERE NOT the reason why they lost. The notion that you need to pay 2 top corners is absolutely false. The teams I listed are proof of that.

[Dave Lane]

If and a big if the formulas all stay the same.

errr...you guys cheering get how this works, right.

Take a hypothetical player -- we'll call him Mr. Haynesworth. He gets a $100MM contract -- $40MM signing bonus and $10MM per year over six years. The $40MM gets pro-rated for cap purposes over the six year term of the deal, so $6.66MM per year, plus $10MM per year for a total of $16.66MM on the cap for each year of the deal. (obviously, I'm assuming some unrealistic things like salary flat over the life of the contract, etc., but whatever).

After year three, our hypothetical Mr. Haynesworth establishes that he is, in fact, the turd in the punch bowl, so he gets cut. The last three years of his salary ($30MM in our hypothetical), gets ignored, because it wasn't guaranteed or anything. Cap impact is cap relief of $10MM in year four (the salary he otherwise would have gotten that year). But the last three years of his $40MM signing bonus (in this case $20MM) accelerates. So they have a total cap hit of $20MM, which is only slightly higher than the $16.66MM cap number they would have had if they had kept the player.

But under this system, as I understand it, the actual $20MM they paid to Haynesworth three years ago goes POOF for purposes of calculating whether they met the minimum. They NEVER get credit for paying out that money. HTF does that make sense?

[Titty Meat]

I mean for fucks sake when was the last time a team won a super bowl paying 2 corners a bunch of money? Even the Packers played most of the game without Charles Woodson.

[Dave Lane]

Right, because they're not already maxed out.

Yep the players taking less money is going to raise ticket prices through the roof.

[Dave Lane]

LMAO They gave up 17 points that game. The Cornerbacks WERE NOT the reason why they lost. The notion that you need to pay 2 top corners is absolutely false. The teams I listed are proof of that.

But here's a clue, if you have two young star corners you can lockout to long term deals that won't break the bank you do it.

[Titty Meat]

But here's a clue, if you have two young star corners you can lockout to long term deals that won't break the bank you do it.

Yes if you can then do it however I don't think that's going to happen. Carr is a much better corner than Routt. If he doesn't get anywhere close to what Routt is making he should fire his agent. Flowers is a different story it might depend on how he does this year.

[milkman]

I mean for ****s sake when was the last time a team won a super bowl paying 2 corners a bunch of money? Even the Packers played most of the game without Charles Woodson.

I actually agree with the premise of your post.

However, if you have a 150 mil cap, with a 120 mil floor, as an example, you actually can invest some money into the corner position and still have wads of money left to spend everywhere else.

Managing the cap smartly means that you don't have to let talented young players walk in free agency.

[BossChief]

Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Saints, Colts all disagree with your take. The best way to cover the pass is with a pass rush.

I'd rather re-sign one of those guys and use the other cash to re-sign Bowe & Hali and possibly having enough to land a big free agent.

Dude, if we let Asante Carr walk we will have a big huge need at corner that will require a major investment in either the draft (where you have to figure a 2-3 year learning curve into the equation or in free agency to fill the gap.

The league has changed since the days of corners that can cover well in man coverage as a luxury to being a must to win it all. Most teams that are real condensers have receiver corps 3-4 deep with starter quality talent and if we are to advance, we need to keep these kids and continue to grow the defense in front of them.

IMO this defense is a dominant NT away from being a top 5 defense in a year or so, If not sooner, and a big reason for that is the superb quality of our secondary.

I might even go as far as to say that nowadays pass rushers and true shutdown corners are more valuable than traditional nts.

[milkman]

Dude, if we let Asante Carr walk we will have a big huge need at corner that will require a major investment in either the draft (where you have to figure a 2-3 year learning curve into the equation or in free agency to fill the gap.

The league has changed since the days of corners that can cover well in man coverage as a luxury to being a must to win it all. Most teams that are real condensers have receiver corps 3-4 deep with starter quality talent and if we are to advance, we need to keep these kids and continue to grow the defense in front of them.

IMO this defense is a dominant NT away from being a top 5 defense in a year or so, If not sooner, and a big reason for that is the superb quality of our secondary.

I might even go as far as to say that nowadays pass rushers and true shutdown corners are more valuable than traditional nts.

Asante Carr?

[BossChief]

Asante Carr?

I was making the connection between NE letting Samuel walk and our situation with Carr. Samuel was a 4th rounder that Pioli let walk when the money bags were in play and Carr was a 5th rounder that is at that point.

Personally, I think Pioli knows what he has on and off the field with both Carr and Flowers and won't make that mistake again.

This secondary gave the pass rush another half second to get to passers last year and that is huge to a young defense.

I'm really excited to see this defense if Romeo tweaks the scheme to utilize Houstons abilities.

[Titty Meat]

I was making the connection between NE letting Samuel walk and our situation with Carr. Samuel was a 4th rounder that Pioli let walk when the money bags were in play and Carr was a 5th rounder that is at that point.

Personally, I think Pioli knows what he has on and off the field with both Carr and Flowers and won't make that mistake again.

This secondary gave the pass rush another half second to get to passers last year and that is huge to a young defense.

I'm really excited to see this defense if Romeo treks the scheme to utilize Houstons abilities.

Letting Ty Law and Asante Samuels was a mistake? Explain.

[SDChiefs]

Dude, if we let Asante Carr walk we will have a big huge need at corner that will require a major investment in either the draft (where you have to figure a 2-3 year learning curve into the equation or in free agency to fill the gap.

The league has changed since the days of corners that can cover well in man coverage as a luxury to being a must to win it all. Most teams that are real condensers have receiver corps 3-4 deep with starter quality talent and if we are to advance, we need to keep these kids and continue to grow the defense in front of them.

IMO this defense is a dominant NT away from being a top 5 defense in a year or so, If not sooner, and a big reason for that is the superb quality of our secondary.

I might even go as far as to say that nowadays pass rushers and true shutdown corners are more valuable than traditional nts.

You do not take a safety at number 5!

[BossChief]

Letting Ty Law and Asante Samuels was a mistake? Explain.

They didn't let Ty Law walk till he was past his prime. They won championships by having his shutdown ability in the playoffs compliment their front 7. They probably never win a championship without him. Anybody that watched their championship runs knows how massive of a factor he was in those runs.

Since then, they have been missing that factor on defense (that Samuel may well have offered) and guys like Flowers and Carr are VERY rare breeds.

When we get to the point where we are real condenders, the ability of our secondary might just help us get over the top.

[Titty Meat]

They didn't let Ty Law walk till he was past his prime. They won championships by having his shutdown ability in the playoffs compliment their front 7. They probably never win a championship without him. Anybody that watched their championship runs knows how massive of a factor he was in those runs.

Since then, they have been missing that factor on defense (that Samuel may well have offered) and guys like Flowers and Carr are VERY rare breeds.

When we get to the point where we are real condenders, the ability of our secondary might just help us get over the top.

Well they have a pro bowler at corner now who cost much less tan Asante and is just as good. The difference this year was they didn't have a WR who could stretch the defense and in years past there pass rush lacked.


I still think the secondary will be pretty good for years to come even if it's just Berry and Carr or Flowers. I don't think they drafted Brown just to play dime and nickel his whole career :)

[BossChief]

Well they have a pro bowler at corner now who cost much less tan Asante and is just as good. The difference this year was they didn't have a WR who could stretch the defense and in years past there pass rush lacked.


I still think the secondary will be pretty good for years to come even if it's just Berry and Carr or Flowers. I don't think they drafted Brown just to play dime and nickel his whole career :)

They spent a first rounder on that corner.

How totally bad ass would that defense be if they had Samuel to pair with him?

That's the point Im trying to make.

I wouldn't be too pissed if we got a first rounder and change for Carr, but if we just let him walk for no compensation Ill be uber pissed.

I'd love it if Carr and Flowers were still our corners 6 or 7 years from now.

[Ace Gunner]

they ain't gonna let carr go. I think samuels wanted too much & pioli said bye

[007]

Break out the wallet Clarkie! we're making a big push this year.

Doesn't matter. Cassel is still the QB.