Simple AC tips to help keep your cool this summer

[Bugeater]

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[Rain Man]

I don't have an air conditioner, but I will apply these same principles to my room fans. Thanks!

[Bugeater]

I don't have an air conditioner, but I will apply these same principles to my room fans. Thanks!
Oh yeah, that reminds me. Another simple tip is to move to a cooler, drier climate.

[LiveSteam]

Or buy 7 window units like Saylors mom did.
I cant even imagine,what it must cost to try & cool that old house.

[Donger]

I don't have an air conditioner, but I will apply these same principles to my room fans. Thanks!

LMAO

I wouldn't think that shutting of the supply vents to unused rooms would cause any issues. I would think that the volume of air that the fan pushes is what it is, and that closing off supply vents would simply allow that air to be pushed to the vents that are open.

Am I wrong?

[Donger]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Another simple tip is to move to a cooler, drier climate.

It'll get to the high 90s here in Denver today, but yeah, it's at 10% humidity.

[Bugeater]

LMAO

I wouldn't think that shutting of the supply vents to unused rooms would cause any issues. I would think that the volume of air that the fan pushes is what it is, and that closing off supply vents would simply allow that air to be pushed to the vents that are open.

Am I wrong?
That's what I always thought as well, but I was told by several people who are a hell of a lot smarter than me that it's not the case.

[Ace Gunner]

great thread and thank you for the tips!

[Rain Man]

That's what I always thought as well, but I was told by several people who are a hell of a lot smarter than me that it's not the case.

That's surprising.

[Time's Yours]

What if you have 2 a/c units, one for upstairs and one for downstairs? I've heard all kinds of different advice on running one or both. Some say set both to same temp always; some say run only upstairs and let the cooler air drop to downstairs; and some say run the downstairs unit when you're downstairs and upstairs unit when you're upstairs.

[Simply Red]

great thread and thank you for the tips!

YOU'RE WELCOME, champ!

[Bugeater]

That's surprising.
Yes, it is. The way it was explained to me is your fan can only move x amount of air through whatever size your duct is, and the only way to move more air is with a more powerful fan, or a larger duct.

[Bugeater]

What if you have 2 a/c units, one for upstairs and one for downstairs? I've heard all kinds of different advice on running one or both. Some say set both to same temp always; some say run only upstairs and let the cooler air drop to downstairs; and some say run the downstairs unit when you're downstairs and upstairs unit when you're upstairs.
Interesting question, and one that we haven't discussed. I would never shut either of them completely down, that's for sure. IMO you should set them both at whatever temp you desire, and let 'em go. Obviously the upstairs one is always going to run more.

[boogblaster]

me ac is clean and working good .. had to replace a capasitor this year .. we clean our outside unit at least twice a year mainly because we live right on a country road and lots of farmer traffic rolls in the dust ....

[Donger]

That's what I always thought as well, but I was told by several people who are a hell of a lot smarter than me that it's not the case.

I don't see why that would be the case, though.

[Rausch]

That's what I always thought as well, but I was told by several people who are a hell of a lot smarter than me that it's not the case.

It saves on the ac unit but it doesn't save on the bill.

So, you pick. More of a push on the AC to save a few bucks on the bill (shortening the life of the unit) or lengthening the life and overall production of your unit while paying a bit more.

[Radar Chief]

What if you have 2 a/c units, one for upstairs and one for downstairs? I've heard all kinds of different advice on running one or both. Some say set both to same temp always; some say run only upstairs and let the cooler air drop to downstairs; and some say run the downstairs unit when you're downstairs and upstairs unit when you're upstairs.

Don't know for sure but when we have shut the upstairs unit off the downstairs unit has a harder time keeping the first floor cool.

[Bugeater]

Don't know for sure but when we have shut the upstairs unit off the downstairs unit has a harder time keeping the first floor cool.
You never want to shut off an AC unit in the summer. Even if we get one of those rare 82 degree days, if you decide to shut it down and open your windows for only one day, the moisture you will let in will permeate your walls, carpet, furniture etc, and can take 3-5 days to get back out of your house once you turn your AC back on.

[mlyonsd]

At my first house the AC unit was located on the west side. Totally unshaded and during the afternoon/evening the unit was blistering hot because of the sun.

I built a large three sided well ventilated wooden cover to shade it and it made a difference in how quickly it could cool down the house.

When I built this house I designed it so the unit would sit on the east side out of sun during the peak cooling times of the day.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Another simple tip is to move to a cooler, drier climate.

Soak those lows in, soak 'em in:

<table class="city-details" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><thead><tr><th>Current Conditions
</th> <th class="day med-small">Today</th> <th class="day med-small">Tomorrow</th> <th class="day med-small">Monday</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="hero"> <td class="location small"> Albuquerque, NM (http://weather.yahoo.com/united-states/new-mexico/87102-12794950/?unit=f) </td><td>Partly Cloudy
</td><td class="day small" align="center">94° / 70°</td><td class="day small" align="center">94° / 69°</td><td class="day small" align="center">91° / 70°</td></tr></tbody></table>
Aaaaaww yeah!

[Chief Roundup]

LMAO

I wouldn't think that shutting of the supply vents to unused rooms would cause any issues. I would think that the volume of air that the fan pushes is what it is, and that closing off supply vents would simply allow that air to be pushed to the vents that are open.

Am I wrong?

Yes this is very wrong. The air moves through a piece of duct work. The duct work will only flow a certain amount of air. If you shut of vents you are putting external pressure on your blower motor which will make it work harder to try and attain the RPM's that it is suppose to turn. Which will make the motor get hot and over a period of time will make it burn out earlier than it should.
Another thing it can do is not move enough air across the indoor coil, the evaperator coil, which will make your system not cool properly and can send liquid back to the compressor in your outdoor unit causing it to slug and burn it out prematurely as well.

[Stewie]

So, if I turn the breaker off right by the outdoor A/C unit and remove the grate from the top I can blast the coil with water from the inside? Do I need to protect/avoid anything from the water as I do this?

[Chief Roundup]

Bugeater, You are fixing to find out that you are going to be a very popular man. Especially in the worst of conditions since that is generally when a capacitor or a compressor or something else fails.
Your friends and family will be calling you and expecting it done for nothing or for a favor later or calling in a favor.

[Chief Roundup]

What type of epa card did you get? I have been doing this stuff for 7 years. Been to a lot of classes. And to a lot of seminars by various equipment manufacture.

[Titty Meat]

[QUOTE=Bugeater;7765718]Hey CP peeps, I'm willing to bet some of you have noticed it's freaking hot outside. And since I've spent the last year going to school for HVAC, I thought I'd share some things I've learned about air conditioning systems. If you don't think yours is operating properly, here are some simple things you can check out on your own.

First off, check your outside unit. On it you will find two copper tubes coming from the house and into the unit. Touch them both.

QUOTE]

Way too hot to go outside. Next.

[Bugeater]

So, if I turn the breaker off right by the outdoor A/C unit and remove the grate from the top I can blast the coil with water from the inside? Do I need to protect/avoid anything from the water as I do this?
On most units the electrical components (contactor, capacitor) are in an isolated area and aren't an issue. You definitely want to avoid hitting those. The compressor and condenser fan motor are both sealed and can withstand some water on them.

[Chief Roundup]

So, if I turn the breaker off right by the outdoor A/C unit and remove the grate from the top I can blast the coil with water from the inside? Do I need to protect/avoid anything from the water as I do this?

Blast might be a strong word here. And be careful going across the "grain" or the coil. You don't want to fold over the fins. The fins are what allow the air to take the temperature off of the refrigerant.

[Bugeater]

Bugeater, You are fixing to find out that you are going to be a very popular man. Especially in the worst of conditions since that is generally when a capacitor or a compressor or something else fails.
Your friends and family will be calling you and expecting it done for nothing or for a favor later or calling in a favor.
I've been looking at some for free simply because I want the experience. But that will change next year. And I don't have the equipment yet to make major repairs.

What type of epa card did you get? I have been doing this stuff for 7 years. Been to a lot of classes. And to a lot of seminars by various equipment manufacture.
I have a universal license. What's funny is you really don't need to know a whole lot to get it, you just need to be able to memorize a bunch of stuff. I've already run into several people who have them and really have no clue how to properly charge a unit.

[Chief Roundup]

I've been looking at some for free simply because I want the experience. But that will change next year. And I don't have the equipment yet to make major repairs.


I have a universal license. What's funny is you really don't need to know a whole lot to get it, you just need to be able to memorize a bunch of stuff. I've already run into several people who have them and really have no clue how to properly charge a unit.

That is very true. A lot of people don't know how to use sub-cool, and super heat to charge units.
I have found a lot of people that want to use the "flash" technique to charge R-22 systems. I just have to laugh at them knowing they don't know what they are doing and charging someone for them to feel the suction line.

[Bugeater]

That is very true. A lot of people don't know how to use sub-cool, and super heat to charge units.
I have found a lot of people that want to use the "flash" technique to charge R-22 systems. I just have to laugh at them knowing they don't know what they are doing and charging someone for them to feel the suction line.
That's pretty much what most of the other maintenance guys I work with do. The only thing that trips me up is trying to determine if a unit has a TXV or not. Sometimes you can't tell unless you open them up, and that isn't always an easy thing to do.

[Chief Roundup]

That's pretty much what most of the other maintenance guys I work with do. The only thing that trips me up is trying to determine if a unit has a TXV or not. Sometimes you can't tell unless you open them up, and that isn't always an easy thing to do.

It is always best to look. But if you can get model and serial you can also call your distrubitor and tech support of the manufacture and they can tell you. If you are doing maintenance in and or on a specific building it won't take long to find out.
This much I can tell you if it is 410 it will have an expansion valve or an R-22 that is a 13 SEER or higher it will have one as well. Most of the older units don't have them but if someone has changed a condensor and left the old coil then they should of added a TXV.
Here is something that I had to learn the hard way. That a load of people don't know. If you are working on an American Standard or a Trane and you have to change a compressor out. There are 2 line driers that look like mufflers on the side of the condensor where the lines come out of the coil and go back to the compressor.
I didnt know about those so I put a new line drier at the evaperator coil and it basicly made a restriction.
Are you working on anything other than residential split systems yet?

[Bugeater]

It is always best to look. But if you can get model and serial you can also call your distrubitor and tech support of the manufacture and they can tell you. If you are doing maintenance in and or on a specific building it won't take long to find out.
This much I can tell you if it is 410 it will have an expansion valve or an R-22 that is a 13 SEER or higher it will have one as well. Most of the older units don't have them but if someone has changed a condensor and left the old coil then they should of added a TXV.
Here is something that I had to learn the hard way. That a load of people don't know. If you are working on an American Standard or a Trane and you have to change a compressor out. There are 2 line driers that look like mufflers on the side of the condensor where the lines come out of the coil and go back to the compressor.
I didnt know about those so I put a new line drier at the evaperator coil and it basicly made a restriction.
Are you working on anything other than residential split systems yet?
That's interesting that you say that, I had my condenser changed out a couple years ago and I don't believe they changed the evap, and it doesn't have a TXV. I know the pistons are model-specific as well, and I have no idea if they put the proper one in either. That's another reason I went to school for this, it drove me nuts not knowing how the heck any of this stuff worked, and you have no idea who you can trust in the business.

I haven't taken any classes on commercial systems yet, and I have PTACs at one of my properties and all I've learned from them is that they are a complete pain in the ass.

[Chief Roundup]

That's interesting that you say that, I had my condenser changed out a couple years ago and I don't believe they changed the evap, and it doesn't have a TXV. I know the pistons are model-specific as well, and I have no idea if they put the proper one in either. That's another reason I went to school for this, it drove me nuts not knowing how the heck any of this stuff worked, and you have no idea who you can trust in the business.

I haven't taken any classes on commercial systems yet, and I have PTACs at one of my properties and all I've learned from them is that they are a complete pain in the ass.

Don't trust anyone else in this business! There are to many people that think they know what they are doing simply because they have been doing it for 20 years.
If you know the series of operations and the flow of refrigerant you should be alright. Things just get bigger. Meaning 2 speed equipment, bigger tonage attained by multiple compressors and so on. Be sure to learn your 3 phase power stuff for the commercial work.
Now you will find some equipment that uses amonia as its refrigerant in larger buildings. Be very careful with those units. Amonia is a lot more explosive than other refrigerants.
PTACS do suck but they are basicly glorified heat pump window units. Cheaply made and not meant to be repaired much.

[Bugeater]

Don't trust anyone else in this business! There are to many people that think they know what they are doing simply because they have been doing it for 20 years.
If you know the series of operations and the flow of refrigerant you should be alright. Things just get bigger. Meaning 2 speed equipment, bigger tonage attained by multiple compressors and so on. Be sure to learn your 3 phase power stuff for the commercial work.
Now you will find some equipment that uses amonia as its refrigerant in larger buildings. Be very careful with those units. Amonia is a lot more explosive than other refrigerants.
PTACS do suck but they are basicly glorified heat pump window units. Cheaply made and not meant to be repaired much.
Heh, we have a commercial rooftop unit that cools the hallways in one apartment building, and I noticed the two huge compressors in it. That thing intimidates me...lol. Haven't had any trouble with it other than it inexplicably froze up after we had a power outage, but I just shut it down for a day to let it thaw and it's been fine ever since then.

[Chief Pote]

Good stuff Bug....thanks for the info. :thumb:

[Dave Lane]

That's what I always thought as well, but I was told by several people who are a hell of a lot smarter than me that it's not the case.

Well they are wrong or they are taking a simplistic view in a very small house. Assuming you have plenty of ducts shutting off a room or two that are not being used will not hurt your system. Too little airflow can cause the coil to not get warm enough from the passing air which can be a problem.

[Buck]

This is from yesterday.

http://i.imgur.com/Xm9Li.jpg

[Chief Roundup]

Heh, we have a commercial rooftop unit that cools the hallways in one apartment building, and I noticed the two huge compressors in it. That thing intimidates me...lol. Haven't had any trouble with it other than it inexplicably froze up after we had a power outage, but I just shut it down for a day to let it thaw and it's been fine ever since then.

Those 2 compressors do not pump refrigerant through the same lines. They have seperate refrigerant lines that run through the same coils. I was taught to think of them as 2 systems working in series to make it a 15 ton or whatever tonage the unit is. So if you have a problem with the charge you will have to check the charge the same number of places as you have compressors in a unit. I have worked on some that you have to crawl up in the rooftops to service all 6 compressors.

[Bugeater]

Well they are wrong or they are taking a simplistic view in a very small house. Assuming you have plenty of ducts shutting off a room or two that are not being used will not hurt your system. Too little airflow can cause the coil to not get warm enough from the passing air which can be a problem.
No, it won't necessarily "hurt" the system, my point is that it's not going to make the remaining rooms much cooler, if at all. And you're not really going to save much money by shutting those rooms off.

[Chief Roundup]

Well they are wrong or they are taking a simplistic view in a very small house. Assuming you have plenty of ducts shutting off a room or two that are not being used will not hurt your system. Too little airflow can cause the coil to not get warm enough from the passing air which can be a problem.

If you shut off more than 10% of the airflow it will void your warranty. And it will take life off your system. The average a customer gets charged when I have to change out a blower motor is $400.
If you have a 3 ton system. That equates to 1200 cfm's of air. The average bedroom will have a 6 or 7 inch piece of duct that feeds the register that you see in your floor. A duct calculator figured at .10 static pressure will tell you that a piece of 6" duct will flow about 100 cfm. A piece of 7" duct about 150 cfm.
So you can only safely shut off 1 register in your home if you have a 3 ton system.
Now there are exceptions. A variable speed blower will ramp up to make the difference up. If you have a zoned system the extra air will be put into the "dump" zone.

[Bugeater]

Just to clarify, here's an example from my own house. I've never been satisfied with how well my system cools, so I always used to keep the main bath vent closed. My thinking was that since it was a small room, and we were rarely in it for very long, that there was no sense in pumping a bunch of cold air into it. Plus I figured it meant that more cold air would go to the other rooms.

Well it turns out I was wrong on both counts, it's not sending any more air anywhere else, it's not making my system work any less harder, so I may as well have it open. And regardless of where it's coming from, the more cool air you have moving through your house, the better off you are.

[Dave Lane]

No, it won't necessarily "hurt" the system, my point is that it's not going to make the remaining rooms much cooler, if at all. And you're not really going to save much money by shutting those rooms off.

Not true. If you think of it in simplistic terms imagine a 5 ton AC unit that has to cool 3000 sq ft. Now imagine all ducts are closed off but one 500 sq foot room (with the thermostat there). It will cool that room much quicker and cycle off much faster (other considerations of wear and tear aside for the moment).

Now is it safe and is it worth the savings is an entirely different argument but all things being equal smaller sq footage = energy savings.

[Bugeater]

Not true. If you think of it in simplistic terms imagine a 5 ton AC unit that has to cool 3000 sq ft. Now imagine all ducts are closed off but one 500 sq foot room (with the thermostat there). It will cool that room much quicker and cycle off much faster (other considerations of wear and tear aside for the moment).

Now is it safe and is it worth the savings is an entirely different argument but all things being equal smaller sq footage = energy savings.
Well that goes against everything I've been taught, which is a fan with x amount of power can move y amount of air through a z size duct, and anything else would require breaking the laws of physics.

[Stewie]

Not true. If you think of it in simplistic terms imagine a 5 ton AC unit that has to cool 3000 sq ft. Now imagine all ducts are closed off but one 500 sq foot room (with the thermostat there). It will cool that room much quicker and cycle off much faster (other considerations of wear and tear aside for the moment).

Now is it safe and is it worth the savings is an entirely different argument but all things being equal smaller sq footage = energy savings.

That will get to temp quick, but won't remove humidity. Removing humidity is the main point of an A/C system.

[Bugeater]

Either way, do what works best for your home and makes you comfortable. I'm just throwing things out that have worked for me.

[Predarat]

I have had an argument with my co workers for some time, but I think its a bad idea to keep flipping the damn temp controll up and down all day long. Maybe flipping it up and down a few times a day is OK, but all day long, up, down, up, down in my opinion will break the damn thing. Its not my $$ so I probably should take the IDGF mode, but still.

[Dave Lane]

Well that goes against everything I've been taught, which is a fan with x amount of power can move y amount of air through a z size duct, and anything else would require breaking the laws of physics.

AC units normally only move a fraction of the air through a pipe it is capable of. Of course my scenario might part your hair as you walked by the duct but the amount of air flowing through a duct is nowhere near what its capable of.

[Hammock Parties]

I recently found out that planting big trees around your house for shade can make a huge difference. Had no idea.

[Stewie]

AC units normally only move a fraction of the air through a pipe it is capable of.

What? A/C units move no air.

[Bugeater]

AC units normally only move a fraction of the air through a pipe it is capable of. Of course my scenario might part your hair as you walked by the duct but the amount of air flowing through a duct is nowhere near what its capable of.
You're right that it's not the size of the duct that limits the amount of air moving through it. The speed of the fan is what does that.

[Bugeater]

I recently found out that planting big trees around your house for shade can make a huge difference. Had no idea.
Well yeah, the problem with that is you can't plant big trees. You have to plant small ones and wait for the damn things to grow.

[ChiefsrGood]

Been having some AC issues. Excuse my explanation I don't know much about this stuff. Last summer our AC worked fine. Now this summer has been a mess. When I originally turned it on for the summer the fan wasn't working... so I got someone to come over and they got the fan running and the ac worked fine for awhile. I left town for a week so I shut it off and when I got back home and turned it on again it blew warm air...so I had someone come over again and they got it running fine again. And when I say fine I mean the AC blew constantly and never shut off but the house was cool atleast. Well eventually it started to blow warm/very weak again and I noticed the lines were freezing inside and outside the house. So I shut off the ac, ran the fan to let them thaw out and changed the filter. The pipes still froze up after I turned the ac on again. So I said screw it and got a totally new AC unit. However the vents upstairs work very poorly and one of them that previously worked good just totally quit blowing. So the thermostat is set on 74 and it stays about 75 degrees upstairs and runs constantly and it feels like it's 65 or so in the basement. Going to be a nice energy bill.

[Dave Lane]

Probably low on freon. Sometimes it doesnt get the inside cool enough and ends up freezing up. Call Bug he'll get you going or if you are here in KC I've got a guy thats good and pretty cheap.

[Chief Roundup]

Not true. If you think of it in simplistic terms imagine a 5 ton AC unit that has to cool 3000 sq ft. Now imagine all ducts are closed off but one 500 sq foot room (with the thermostat there). It will cool that room much quicker and cycle off much faster (other considerations of wear and tear aside for the moment).

Now is it safe and is it worth the savings is an entirely different argument but all things being equal smaller sq footage = energy savings.

No this will not work like you are thinking at all.
Blower are sized by the size of the system that they are put into.
If you have a 5 ton Air Handler it has a motor and a blower wheel sized to move 2000 cfm's of air. If you restrict or block off half of the registers in your home it will make the blower slow down because it can't move that air. Then that air becomes a restriction. When the blower slows down it won't even be able to pull half of the normal amount of air. Also when you do this and it can't move enough air across the coil and that will cause the coil to freeze up. Along with all of this you are making that motor work hard pulling more amps, costing your more energy, as well as the motor uses that air to keep itself cool.

[Chief Roundup]

AC units normally only move a fraction of the air through a pipe it is capable of. Of course my scenario might part your hair as you walked by the duct but the amount of air flowing through a duct is nowhere near what its capable of.

Well there again if the duct work is sized properly for the system by the installer then there won't be much of a fraction left over. If someone oversizes duct you will not get much air flow into your home. And your effenciency is no good.
And it won't "part your hair" if you close off that extreme amount because the blower will not be able to move that much anymore.

[Chief Roundup]

You're right that it's not the size of the duct that limits the amount of air moving through it. The speed of the fan is what does that.

This is not true. Duct is like a water line you are only going to get so much air through it.
Meaning you can't hook a piece of 10" duct right off the plenum box of a 5 ton unit and think it will blow just fine. 10" duct will not move that much air. The speed of the blower motor is ony in rpm's that the motor will turn. The speed will only affect the fps that the air will travel. Not the volume of air.

[Chief Roundup]

Been having some AC issues. Excuse my explanation I don't know much about this stuff. Last summer our AC worked fine. Now this summer has been a mess. When I originally turned it on for the summer the fan wasn't working... so I got someone to come over and they got the fan running and the ac worked fine for awhile. I left town for a week so I shut it off and when I got back home and turned it on again it blew warm air...so I had someone come over again and they got it running fine again. And when I say fine I mean the AC blew constantly and never shut off but the house was cool atleast. Well eventually it started to blow warm/very weak again and I noticed the lines were freezing inside and outside the house. So I shut off the ac, ran the fan to let them thaw out and changed the filter. The pipes still froze up after I turned the ac on again. So I said screw it and got a totally new AC unit. However the vents upstairs work very poorly and one of them that previously worked good just totally quit blowing. So the thermostat is set on 74 and it stays about 75 degrees upstairs and runs constantly and it feels like it's 65 or so in the basement. Going to be a nice energy bill.

Sounds like on the first part of your story your evaperator, indoor coil, might of been dirty and or low of refrigerant.
If you have duct that is lined, insulated on the inside, you may have a piece of insulation that has come off or lose and it blocking the air from getting to the piece of duct that feeds that register.
Did you have a split system or a package unit?
Also you have to watch a lot of these companies. I know some that will sell you what they have in stock rather than get you the same sized unit as what they replaced.
If you had a 3 ton system. Did they replace it with a 2 ton unit? You will lose a lot of air that way.

[Bugeater]

This is not true. Duct is like a water line you are only going to get so much air through it.
Meaning you can't hook a piece of 10" duct right off the plenum box of a 5 ton unit and think it will blow just fine. 10" duct will not move that much air. The speed of the blower motor is ony in rpm's that the motor will turn. The speed will only affect the fps that the air will travel. Not the volume of air.
Ah, we're starting to get into things that are covered in the installation class, and I haven't taken that yet. But a higher speed fan would screw up your temp drop over the coil so it wouldn't necessarily cool any faster anyway.

[Bugeater]

Probably low on freon. Sometimes it doesnt get the inside cool enough and ends up freezing up. Call Bug he'll get you going or if you are here in KC I've got a guy thats good and pretty cheap.
I'm in Omaha, eight hours round trip travel time would make that service call pretty expensive.

[Chief Roundup]

Ah, we're starting to get into things that are covered in the installation class, and I haven't taken that yet. But a higher speed fan would screw up your temp drop over the coil so it wouldn't necessarily cool any faster anyway.

This is true. :thumb:

[Delano]

Well yeah, the problem with that is you can't plant big trees. You have to plant small ones and wait for the damn things to grow.

Stick with HVAC advice. You can transplant any size of tree if you've the money, space, and water.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bugeater]

Stick with HVAC advice. You can transplant any size of tree if you've the money, space, and water.
Posted via Mobile Device
Duly noted.

[sedated]

I live in an apt and the crawlspace that houses my AC scares me. It doesn't work worth shit. Bug, you can take a look the next tme you are in town.

[Chief Roundup]

I live in an apt and the crawlspace that houses my AC scares me. It doesn't work worth shit. Bug, you can take a look the next tme you are in town.

Oh yeah got to love them crawl spaces. Better than an attic this time of year where it is 200+

[Bugeater]

I live in an apt and the crawlspace that houses my AC scares me. It doesn't work worth shit. Bug, you can take a look the next tme you are in town.
Crawl space? :spock:

Most apartments either have the units outside or on the roof. Either way though, you should have a maintenance guy that can look at it for you. No guarantees he knows what the hell he is doing though.

[Time's Yours]

No this will not work like you are thinking at all.
Blower are sized by the size of the system that they are put into.
If you have a 5 ton Air Handler it has a motor and a blower wheel sized to move 2000 cfm's of air. If you restrict or block off half of the registers in your home it will make the blower slow down because it can't move that air. Then that air becomes a restriction. When the blower slows down it won't even be able to pull half of the normal amount of air. Also when you do this and it can't move enough air across the coil and that will cause the coil to freeze up. Along with all of this you are making that motor work hard pulling more amps, costing your more energy, as well as the motor uses that air to keep itself cool.

Interesting. In November my wife and I bought a house way bigger than what we need because we both hate moving and don't want to have to move when we decide to have kids.

I've had half the house shut down all summer; I was thinking exactly like Dave Lane is thinking. I guess that was a mistake.

[Bugeater]

Interesting. In November my wife and I bought a house way bigger than what we need because we both hate moving and don't want to have to move when we decide to have kids.

I've had half the house shut down all summer; I was thinking exactly like Dave Lane is thinking. I guess that was a mistake.
Man I thought the same thing forever as well. It's hard to wrap your mind around the physics behind it.

I'm a bit surprised that's the only thing anyone took any exception to. I thought for sure someone would take me to task on recommending the cheap crappy air filters.

[Chief Roundup]

Interesting. In November my wife and I bought a house way bigger than what we need because we both hate moving and don't want to have to move when we decide to have kids.

I've had half the house shut down all summer; I was thinking exactly like Dave Lane is thinking. I guess that was a mistake.

Well if it hasn't froze up by now you must have quite a bit of duct leakage or the refrigerant levels will not be quite right when you start using the whole house. Try opening all the vents and see what difference it makes. See if the house cools better. I know it will cool more evenly. But see if the system will stay off a little longer between cycles. See if you have a little better airflow not just out of the registers but see if your return grills where your filters are at catch more dust. At the return you can use a piece of paper to see how strongly it is pulling the paper towards or on to the grills. If you have a couple of thermometers put one on or as close to the returns as possible. Put another at one of the registers. This time of year you should have somewhere around a Delta T of 15. That is the temperature difference between the two. 14 to 17 this time of year. Anything out of that range will show that the system is not opperating properly.

[Chief Roundup]

Man I thought the same thing forever as well. It's hard to wrap your mind around the physics behind it.

I'm a bit surprised that's the only thing anyone took any exception to. I thought for sure someone would take me to task on recommending the cheap crappy air filters.

Why that is one of the best pieces of info that you gave!
A person should change thier filters every month. But for the sake of your customers to recommend a pleeted high capture filter you HAVE to know how the system was installed. Because if the return duct is not sized properly or if the surface area of the return grill is not large enough a pleeted filter with a small amount of dust can be a huge restriction to the airflow.
Not to mention they are 5 times more expensive.

[Bugeater]

Why that is one of the best pieces of info that you gave!
A person should change thier filters every month. But for the sake of your customers to recommend a pleeted high capture filter you HAVE to know how the system was installed. Because if the return duct is not sized properly or if the surface area of the return grill is not large enough a pleeted filter with a small amount of dust can be a huge restriction to the airflow.
Not to mention they are 5 times more expensive.
I do use the cheapest pleated ones over the winter since I run woodstove to heat my house and the dust from it is terrible. My furnace doesn't even run all that much and those things are filthy after just a few weeks.

[Chief Roundup]

I do use the cheapest pleated ones over the winter since I run woodstove to heat my house and the dust from it is terrible. My furnace doesn't even run all that much and those things are filthy after just a few weeks.

Well that is good that you check and are aware. And that you are a heat and air guy you can fix your own stuff. If you tell someone or do something for someone else that costs them any money or break down you are the bad guy.
In this business you will either be a hero or a zero.

[Dave Lane]

This is not true. Duct is like a water line you are only going to get so much air through it.
Meaning you can't hook a piece of 10" duct right off the plenum box of a 5 ton unit and think it will blow just fine. 10" duct will not move that much air. The speed of the blower motor is ony in rpm's that the motor will turn. The speed will only affect the fps that the air will travel. Not the volume of air.

This is not true I have a 6" duct I move 1000 cfm through. It has an inline fan but you can move huge amounts of air through ducts if you want.

[Time's Yours]

Well if it hasn't froze up by now you must have quite a bit of duct leakage or the refrigerant levels will not be quite right when you start using the whole house. Try opening all the vents and see what difference it makes. See if the house cools better. I know it will cool more evenly. But see if the system will stay off a little longer between cycles. See if you have a little better airflow not just out of the registers but see if your return grills where your filters are at catch more dust. At the return you can use a piece of paper to see how strongly it is pulling the paper towards or on to the grills. If you have a couple of thermometers put one on or as close to the returns as possible. Put another at one of the registers. This time of year you should have somewhere around a Delta T of 15. That is the temperature difference between the two. 14 to 17 this time of year. Anything out of that range will show that the system is not opperating properly.

Are registers and vents synonymous?

I have 4 filters (2 for each a/c unit) in the ceiling in the hallway upstairs. Are these the only filters, or are there more in the ducting or near the units? The only ones I've ever changed are those ones in the ceiling.

I opened all of the vents today. It seems so counterintuitive to cool more of the house.

[Groves]

Stick with HVAC advice. You can transplant any size of tree if you've the money, space, and water.
Posted via Mobile Device

Those "large tree" transplants always fascinate me.

Feel free to share some stories. Is there a size that hits the sweet spot in terms of money and "worth it"-ness?

[Chief Roundup]

This is not true I have a 6" duct I move 1000 cfm through. It has an inline fan but you can move huge amounts of air through ducts if you want.

Dude you can think what you want but until you have been to school and educated yourself you will not understand. You can believe what you want but there is a huge difference between cfm and fps. You are moving are at 1000 fps but you CANNOT move 1000 cfm of air through a 6" round piece of duct.

fps = feet per second
cfm = cubic foot minute

When you mess up your system and it costs you 10k to replace it and they tell you that your duct is all blown apart and needs to be replaced for an addition 2500 to 3000. Maybe then you will understand.

[Chief Roundup]

Are registers and vents synonymous?

I have 4 filters (2 for each a/c unit) in the ceiling in the hallway upstairs. Are these the only filters, or are there more in the ducting or near the units? The only ones I've ever changed are those ones in the ceiling.

I opened all of the vents today. It seems so counterintuitive to cool more of the house.

Yes registers and vents are the same thing.
The filters depend on the installer but no there shouldn't be another filter at the air handler.

What have you noticed so far about the change that you have done?

[Chief Roundup]

Those "large tree" transplants always fascinate me.

Feel free to share some stories. Is there a size that hits the sweet spot in terms of money and "worth it"-ness?

Gotta kind of laugh that a guys name on here is talking about trees.

[DaFace]

So here's a question for you HVAC gurus:

My house has a main floor, an upper floor, and a finished basement. The furnace and everything is located in the basement. As is probably a pretty common problem, it's a giant pain in the ass to cool the upper floor; the main floor is fine; and the basement turns into a walk-in freezer if I leave the vents open.

The big issue aside from the whole "heat rises" thing is that the amount of air coming out of the vents in the basement is MUCH higher in the basement than the main floor and much higher on the main floor than the upper floor.

So I guess my question is just whether there are "best practices" to make the most of this. My guess is that the underlying issue isn't an easy fix. But I've been shutting the vents all the way off in the basement since it stays cool on its own. Is that a bad thing based on what you guys have been saying?

[Bugeater]

So here's a question for you HVAC gurus:

My house has a main floor, an upper floor, and a finished basement. The furnace and everything is located in the basement. As is probably a pretty common problem, it's a giant pain in the ass to cool the upper floor; the main floor is fine; and the basement turns into a walk-in freezer if I leave the vents open.

The big issue aside from the whole "heat rises" thing is that the amount of air coming out of the vents in the basement is MUCH higher in the basement than the main floor and much higher on the main floor than the upper floor.

So I guess my question is just whether there are "best practices" to make the most of this. My guess is that the underlying issue isn't an easy fix. But I've been shutting the vents all the way off in the basement since it stays cool on its own. Is that a bad thing based on what you guys have been saying?
That's the same issue as differences from room-to-room which I touched on in the last paragraph. Open the vents, and leave the thermostat on the "Fan On" setting for a couple days and see if it makes a difference.

[BWillie]

Tried all of this, my bill is still going to be 450 this month. 2000 square foot house. 75% insulated windows. What the f***

[Bugeater]

Tried all of this, my bill is still going to be 450 this month. 2000 square foot house. 75% insulated windows. What the f***
How old is your system?

[Delano]

Those "large tree" transplants always fascinate me.

Feel free to share some stories. Is there a size that hits the sweet spot in terms of money and "worth it"-ness?

Frankly, the really big moves tend towards historically significant trees. They are very expensive and the equipment is rare.

My cousin runs a spade quite a bit and makes a shitload from 4-6 diameter trees. The nurseries can't keep up with the demand of that size Acer freemanii 'Jeffersred' (Autumn Blaze Maple). I've never really asked what size is his max profit margin. He's got a trailer that will haul three small transplants and I think that's probably a good chunk of change.

http://arborproinc.com/images/services2_300X_Broderick-Sp.jpg
http://arazozabrothers.com/ArazozaBrothers_tree_transplant.jpg
http://www.treeworld.info/attachments/f8/6666d1216378112-large-tree-transplants-giantboab.jpg

Here's the basic method for preparing the rootball.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/trees/f1147-6.gif

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That's intense. How much does it cost to move a big tree like the one in the second photo?

[Delano]

That's intense. How much does it cost to move a big tree like the one in the second photo?

I've no idea. That's not really my branch of Arboriculture. HAHA TREE PUN!!

[Bugeater]

That's intense. How much does it cost to move a big tree like the one in the second photo?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's expensive.

[chefsos]

That's intense. How much does it cost to move a big tree like the one in the second photo?I wouldn't know the cost, but judging from the graphic it takes a year and a half to get the thing ready!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I've no idea. That's not really my branch of Arboriculture. HAHA TREE PUN!!

You've got to REALLY love a tree to put that kind of money and effort down.

[Delano]

I wouldn't know the cost, but judging from the graphic it takes a year and a half to get the thing ready!

That graphic leaves nothing to the imagination!

[Delano]

You've got to REALLY love a tree to put that kind of money and effort down.

http://blog.earnmydegree.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tree_hugger.jpg

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's expensive.

http://blog.earnmydegree.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tree_hugger.jpg

LMAOThis thread has teh truck.

[DaFace]

That's the same issue as differences from room-to-room which I touched on in the last paragraph. Open the vents, and leave the thermostat on the "Fan On" setting for a couple days and see if it makes a difference.

The issue with that is that I don't really want my basement being cooled to 60 degrees either, so I'd really prefer not to open those vents up. There aren't any returns down there (or on the 2nd floor for that matter), which would seem like it's part of the problem.

[Bugeater]

The issue with that is that I don't really want my basement being cooled to 60 degrees either, so I'd really prefer not to open those vents up. There aren't any returns down there (or on the 2nd floor for that matter), which would seem like it's part of the problem.
Ah yeah, that's kinda screwed up. If it was me I'd put in a return down there to get that cool air circulating throughout the house.

[Chief Roundup]

The issue with that is that I don't really want my basement being cooled to 60 degrees either, so I'd really prefer not to open those vents up. There aren't any returns down there (or on the 2nd floor for that matter), which would seem like it's part of the problem.

Yes this is a lot of the problem.

If your basement isn't finished it shouldn't be that hard or expensive to add a return down there. And depending on the layout of the main floor you could probably add a return to the main floor as well as long as the basement isn't finished. You would just have to lose a little space in a closet that backs up to a hallway, living room, or den. Returns are not suppose to be put in kitchens or garages.
Also your house sounds like it should of been zoned or had two seperate systems.
And there is also small systems called ductless mini-splits that can be easily installed on an exterior wall if one is available.
And like Bugeater said if you leave your fan in the on position it will circulate the air in your house constantly helping the consistent temp throughout the entire house.

[Chief Roundup]

Tried all of this, my bill is still going to be 450 this month. 2000 square foot house. 75% insulated windows. What the f***

Well need more info.
What do you have the thermostat set at?
How is the insulation in the attic and walls?
How old is the house?
Do you have kids that are constantly going in and out?
What kind of airflow are you getting out of the registers? Thinking you may have a lot of duct leakage. If your registers/vents are in the floor check your crawl space and see if it is nice and cool in there.
Is the system cycling on and off or just running all the time?

[Stanley Nickels]

Resident CP A/C Gurus, I come in a time of desperate need! :D

Yesterday, I get a call from the fiance while at work. She says it's making a loud "screeching noise", and we were either going to have to turn it off overnight (as it was so loud), or place a service call. So, when I get home, I get to tinkering. It's making the really loud screeching noise alright, sounds like the fan's causing it, but not like something's stuck in there per se. Anyway, I get to opening the box that has the fuses in it (and the place where the noise is coming from). When you open the front "gate"/lid to this, the machine turns off, as there is a button that is depressed by having it on there. I take a look inside... no idea. Looks fine to me. However, NOW all the unit does is "hum" like it's attempting to start the blower. This occurred at midnight last night. We went to our upstairs room (wall AC unit FTW!), and then I came down today and it started right up when I pushed the button manually. Unfortunately, stupid me forgot to turn off the "Auto" function on our thermostat, so when it turned off at the right temperature today, it now only hums again, no blower. The reason I give so much background is because it pretty clearly looks like an issue with the motor getting the fan to work. Any thoughts here? Did the overnight allow the unit to "cool off" (no pun intended)? Or did I just get lucky? I'd really like to avoid an expensive house call if I can afford it, but also don't want to get too deep into the electrical system of something so important. Massive rep to any helpers!

[Stanley Nickels]

sweaty bump

[Bugeater]

Yeah, your furnace has a safety switch that shuts it down when you remove the bottom cover. You can override it by running some tape over it.

It may be a bad start capacitor that's keeping the blower motor from starting, if you feel gutsy enough you may be able to get it going with your hand, I've done that with condenser fans before. But make sure you leave the t-stat on FAN ON so it will just keep going until you can get it repaired. And do this AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Screeching is probably from a bad bushing in the blower motor, you may be able to buy it some time with some lubricant. But you're most likely looking at a new blower motor and cap.

[Stanley Nickels]

Awesome, thanks for the advice. To get that fan going myself, could I stick something in there and get it spinning?

And, my ultra-n00b, but "be safe" question.. any risk of electrical problems doing this? I imagine I just tape the button down, it starts humming, then I stick something in there and prompt/nudge the fan?

[Bugeater]

Or it's possible that the blower motor completely seized up, then you're screwed unless you can find a place that sells replacements that is open on Sunday or a service company that has the one you need on hand.

[Bugeater]

Awesome, thanks for the advice. To get that fan going myself, could I stick something in there and get it spinning?

And, my ultra-n00b, but "be safe" question.. any risk of electrical problems doing this? I imagine I just tape the button down, it starts humming, then I stick something in there and prompt/nudge the fan?
I can't say for sure without seeing the furnace, but most of them have the majority of the electrical components in the compartment above the fan. Often the control board is in that lower area, you want to be sure not to screw that up in any way.

And I'd just use my hand, give it a good spin and get it the hell out of there.

[Stanley Nickels]

Bug, you are a God among men. I went down there, removed the filter piece (giving me access to the fan), and put the front "gate" on the opening that has the fuse box and fan in it. This depressed the button, and I saw the fan start to attempt to spin... reached in, gave about a half spin (handy-dandy knob sticking out of the middle), and all is cool. You just got me sex tonight, methinks. And for that, I say: my rep... take it.

[Bugeater]

Awesome. That cap is definitely bad then. What about the screeching noise, is that still present?

[DaFace]

Bug, you are a God among men. I went down there, removed the filter piece (giving me access to the fan), and put the front "gate" on the opening that has the fuse box and fan in it. This depressed the button, and I saw the fan start to attempt to spin... reached in, gave about a half spin (handy-dandy knob sticking out of the middle), and all is cool. You just got me sex tonight, methinks. And for that, I say: my rep... take it.

This is one of the strangest wingman stories I've ever heard.

[Stanley Nickels]

No, it's intermittent to be sure. When it does happen (probably about 25% of the time... has yet to do it today though) it's SUPER loud... imagine like what a fanbelt on a car sounds like when it screeches. Can hear it throughout the house. Not sure what it's all about.. light doesn't appear to show anything in there impeding the fan (which could also explain the difficulty starting).

What do you think a replacement start capacitor would run us? Is it something a novice could do? I'm always looking to learn more about home improvement, as a young homeowner.

[Stanley Nickels]

This is one of the strangest wingman stories I've ever heard.

LMAO

I'll take it where I can get it.

[Bugeater]

No, it's intermittent to be sure. When it does happen (probably about 25% of the time... has yet to do it today though) it's SUPER loud... imagine like what a fanbelt on a car sounds like when it screeches. Can hear it throughout the house. Not sure what it's all about.. light doesn't appear to show anything in there impeding the fan (which could also explain the difficulty starting).

What do you think a replacement start capacitor would run us? Is it something a novice could do? I'm always looking to learn more about home improvement, as a young homeowner.
Heh, I've never actually paid for a cap myself, the company buys them. But I'd be surprised if that one is more than $20. They're not hard to replace, do it wire-by-wire and discharge both of them with an old screwdriver before you start. And kill the power to your furnace via the fused disconnect switch that should be next to it.

You'll have to take the old one to a AC supply place so they can get you the right replacement, I don't believe the home improvement stores carry them, but I've never looked for them there so I may be wrong.

And I had a condenser fan doing the same intermittent screech not too long ago, I ended up replacing it.

[Stanley Nickels]

So, it's making that noise again. I made a video showing the issue. What I turned earlier is in fact a motor, not a fan. I was able to capture what that noise was, even though it meant turning off the A/C.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BbE7r0RboSs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I hate my voice on video by the way. Oh well, this is more important.

[Bugeater]

Heh, I hate listening to my recorded voice as well.

That finned wheel is actually your fan, it's a "squirrel cage" type fan as opposed to a bladed one. What you see on that confined side is the actual motor, and what you're using to start it is the motor shaft. It almost sounds like that fan is rubbing on something?

And WD-40 isn't a very good lubricant. I'd recommend using just about anything else.

[Bugeater]

After watching it again, I'm leaning towards the bearing in the motor being shot. If you want to try lubing it pulling the blower isn't hard, it's usually just a couple 1/4" sheet metal screws and then the whole unit will slide out. That may be an exercise in futility though.

Maybe Chief Roundup will chime in, he has quite a bit more experience than me.

[Stewie]

After watching it again, I'm leaning towards the bearing in the motor being shot. If you want to try lubing it pulling the blower isn't hard, it's usually just a couple 1/4" sheet metal screws and then the whole unit will slide out. That may be an exercise in futility though.

Maybe Chief Roundup will chime in, he has quite a bit more experience than me.

I had this exact problem several years ago. It is the bearings in the motor. New motor is in order.

[Stanley Nickels]

poop. well, rep anyway :P

[Stanley Nickels]

So.fucking.frustrating. It was working well for a while, now... nothing. Pushing the safety button down turns the red light on the circuit board thing on for a split-second, then it goes off. No humming, no attempt to start by that motor.. nothing. I went outside to see what type of air conditioner we have; looks like an old York. There's a ton of ice around the hoses and a few components in the outside "box" unit (sorry, I'm retarded and don't know the name for this). Two things: 1) am I looking at a new motor here, or some smaller component? I doubt the ice has anything to do with this, sounds like the motor is our culprit..

2) What's the price range I could be looking at to replace this? Any chance I could replace the motor myself, with a how-to video or something? Can I find and buy a motor and simply pay someone labor to install it?

Okay, that's more than two questions. You guys are the best.

[Bugeater]

Yikes. I'm in the middle of cooking right now, I'll try to address as many of those issues as I can in a little while here.

[Stanley Nickels]

No worries! Your help is super appreciated already.

[Bugeater]

Ok, the ice may or may not be related to the blower. It's possible it froze up if you've allowed it to run without the blower, or it could be a result of it being undercharged. It's hard to say at this point. Have you ever noticed ice out there before?

Anyone with any mechanical skills can change out a blower motor and cap (you always replace the cap when you replace the motor). But with the time you'd spend pulling it and chasing one down, you'd probably be better off calling a pro to do it, and they can check the charge for you as well, that's something that you cannot do.

And again, I have really no idea on pricing. Depending on who you call I'd guess anywhere between $200-300 to have blower motor and cap replaced and the system checked out.

[Stanley Nickels]

Holy crap, that's, quite literally, a small percentage of what we were expecting. I'll mentally still prepare for the worst, but that's some silver lining. I've got a guy coming out tomorrow, who was recommended by my fiance's dad (a retired contractor). Will let you guys know how it turns out. Thanks to all for their help, though!

[Bugeater]

The most expensive repairs to an AC system are the coils or the compressor. When one of those go bad is when you start weighing whether a system should be replaced or not.

[TinyEvel]

Thanks Bug! Hey, can you translate this to Spanish, so then I could pass it on to the crew that comes to service my HVAC every 6 months. oh wait....

[Stanley Nickels]

Last night SUUUUCKED. I'd be surprised if my cumulative sleep was more than a couple hours. Sweaty sleep sucks, too. Anyway, we got the guy to come over, he confirmed it was the blower motor (apparently it was much harder to turn than it should be). Had it replaced in about an hour and a half. Whole thing, plus a refill of refrigerant (I think that's what he refilled.. I R dumb.) was $300. That sound like a good deal?

[Bugeater]

Last night SUUUUCKED. I'd be surprised if my cumulative sleep was more than a couple hours. Sweaty sleep sucks, too. Anyway, we got the guy to come over, he confirmed it was the blower motor (apparently it was much harder to turn than it should be). Had it replaced in about an hour and a half. Whole thing, plus a refill of refrigerant (I think that's what he refilled.. I R dumb.) was $300. That sound like a good deal?
Eh, he probably checked the charge and added some, which kinda worries me because you can't get an accurate charge with a lot of hot, humid air inside the house. I bet he ended up overcharging it.

I should have mentioned something about that yesterday, although it likely wouldn't have mattered because most guys aren't going to want to make a second trip out after the house is cooled to check the charge. Kind of a shitty part of the business.

Other than that it doesn't sound like too bad of a deal seeing that it was in the price range that I completely guessed at.

Oh, and obviously the drag on the blower wheel from the bad bearing is why the cap couldn't get it going. I'll have to remember that as something to look out for.

[CaliforniaChief]

Hey Bug, I have a room that doesn't cool like the others. Cool air is flowing from the duct, but it just doesn't cool the room. Thoughts? TIA.

[Bugeater]

Hey Bug, I have a room that doesn't cool like the others. Cool air is flowing from the duct, but it just doesn't cool the room. Thoughts? TIA.
Do you have another similarly sized room with the same number of ducts that cools well?

If so, does the one that doesn't cool well have more windows? Does it see more sun? It's possible that the room simply isn't insulated as well as the others.

[BigChiefFan]

Bug,

I have a heat pump system (brand new two years ago) and the top floor of my house is hot, in every room. I had solar fans installed to come on at a certain temperature to help let some of the heat out and it doesn't seem any different. It's literally 10 degrees warmer. Any ideas on what to do? Thanks.

[Titty Meat]

I currently don't have AC. How fucked am I?

[Bugeater]

Bug,

I have a heat pump system (brand new two years ago) and the top floor of my house is hot, in every room. I had solar fans installed to come on at a certain temperature to help let some of the heat out and it doesn't seem any different. It's literally 10 degrees warmer. Any ideas on what to do? Thanks.
Solar fans? Where do they let the heat "out" to?

[Bugeater]

I currently don't have AC. How fucked am I?
Fucked beyond fucking belief.

[BigChiefFan]

Solar fans? Where do they let the heat "out" to?They are on my roof and they vent the heat out of my attic. BTW, thanks for reading my post and responding.

[Titty Meat]

****ed beyond ****ing belief.

I can here it turning on inside but I go out and the fan isn't moving? It's making some noise too. I'm getting airflow from the vents inside it's not really cold but it's not very warm either.

[Bugeater]

They are on my roof and they vent the heat out of my attic. BTW, thanks for reading my post and responding.
Ah, gotcha. You're talking about attic fans.

The problem you're having is one that's been touched on a couple times before in this thread and is common to any two story home...you simply can't maintain the same temperature on both levels with a single system. Heat rises, cool air settles, end of story. You may be able to get them a little more closer by letting the fan run constantly, but when it's as hot as it's been lately I'd imagine your AC is running almost nonstop anyway.

[KcMizzou]

****ed beyond ****ing belief.LMAO

[Bugeater]

I can here it turning on inside but I go out and the fan isn't moving? It's making some noise too. I'm getting airflow from the vents inside it's not really cold but it's not very warm either.
Yikes. Do you suppose the noise you're hearing outside could be the compressor running?

[Titty Meat]

Yikes. Do you suppose the noise you're hearing outside could be the compressor running?

I have no idea what that is :( I just know the fan aint moving

[RustShack]

Ours isn't working. We just had it fixed a month ago too. Its running, but its not blowing cool air. I feel like it stopped working the day my roommate who doesn't normally mow.. mowed.

[Titty Meat]

Yikes. Do you suppose the noise you're hearing outside could be the compressor running?

I just looked it up. Yes the noise is coming from that same side.

[CaliforniaChief]

Do you have another similarly sized room with the same number of ducts that cools well?

If so, does the one that doesn't cool well have more windows? Does it see more sun? It's possible that the room simply isn't insulated as well as the others.

Similar-sized rooms with the same amount of ducts? Not really. The room of interest was added on, changing the 3-car garage into 2. It's also the room that's farthest from the forced air unit in the attic. So it could be a combination of poor duct access, 2 windows, distance from the unit, and inadequate insulation. Although I don't even feel air coming from the duct when I'm on the other side of the room.

[Bugeater]

I have no idea what that is :( I just know the fan aint moving
Does the outside unit feel hot? Check the smaller of the two copper tubes coming out of it, if it's really hot then the compressor is still running and it's just the fan that went out.

[Titty Meat]

Does the outside unit feel hot? Check the smaller of the two copper tubes coming out of it, if it's really hot then the compressor is still running and it's just the fan that went out.

Turn the system off first right?


Is there anyway I can fix it myself before dying of ****ing heat stroke?

[Bugeater]

Similar-sized rooms with the same amount of ducts? Not really. The room of interest was added on, changing the 3-car garage into 2. It's also the room that's farthest from the forced air unit in the attic. So it could be a combination of poor duct access, 2 windows, distance from the unit, and inadequate insulation. Although I don't even feel air coming from the duct when I'm on the other side of the room.
Ack, I have the same thing going on in a room that was added on to the end of my house. They used that plastic flex duct bullcrap and made about a dozen turns with it and the vents don't blow worth a shit. Luckily the room completely opens up to the main part of the house so it still stays fairly decent. Might try a booster fan if the ductwork to that room is accessible.

[KcMizzou]

It's hot as shit. Supposed to be 108 here in KC tomorrow. If it were me, I'd crash with family, or spring the 60 bucks or whatever for Motel 6 until it's fixed.

[Bugeater]

Turn the system off first right?


Is there anyway I can fix it myself before dying of ****ing heat stroke?
No, you don't need to turn it off just to feel the refrigerant lines.

But you probably lost either the motor for the fan or the cap that starts it, and either way it isn't something you're going to be able to fix on your own at 11:30 at night unless you keep spare parts laying around.

[Titty Meat]

What would happen if I push the fan with a stick?

[Bugeater]

What would happen if I push the fan with a stick?
If it's just the cap that is bad, it may be possible to get the motor going. But once the unit cycles off, you'll have to start it again.

Although with as hot as it is, it may not cycle off for a while. If you do get it going, I'd set your t-stat at 65 degrees and let it go all night.

[Titty Meat]

Fuck it i'm trying it.

My family will let me come over but nobody will allow my cats to come poor guys.

[LiveSteam]

I will watch your cats for you.:evil:

[Bugeater]

Go for it. I'm just not sure you'll be able to give it much of a boost, those things are usually caged off pretty well. I've done it before though.

[CaliforniaChief]

Ack, I have the same thing going on in a room that was added on to the end of my house. They used that plastic flex duct bullcrap and made about a dozen turns with it and the vents don't blow worth a shit. Luckily the room completely opens up to the main part of the house so it still stays fairly decent. Might try a booster fan if the ductwork to that room is accessible.

The booster fan is an interesting idea. I'm also thinking about wiring/installing a ceiling fan to help. I would think about putting a window unit in but it's in the front of our house and I think that looks ghetto. Either way, I'm about to invest some money in a nice TV and plan to spend a lot more time in there and need to get on top of this.

Thanks so much, Bug!

[Titty Meat]

Yea I pushed it and got nothing :( I turned it down to 65 is that going to prevent me from dying?

[Bugeater]

The booster fan is an interesting idea. I'm also thinking about wiring/installing a ceiling fan to help. I would think about putting a window unit in but it's in the front of our house and I think that looks ghetto. Either way, I'm about to invest some money in a nice TV and plan to spend a lot more time in there and need to get on top of this.

Thanks so much, Bug!
Menard's has the booster fans, they're easily installed in any 6" duct. I just put a cord and a plug on mine and let it run 24/7 when it's hot out. It's not like it uses that much electricity and if I burn it up, well I'm only out $20.

Or if you're crafty enough you can wire it up so it only runs when your furnace blower runs.

[Bugeater]

Yea I pushed it and got nothing :( I turned it down to 65 is that going to prevent me from dying?
Probably not. Without that fan going, your condenser is going to have trouble dissipating heat. And your compressor is likely going to overheat and go into overload at some point.

It's hard to say exactly what the problem is without doing some troubleshooting with a voltmeter. It sucks that I don't live in KC, I could be cleaning up with service calls right about now.

[Titty Meat]

Ok one last dumb question. Am I better off for the night running the Tstat at 65 with that mild air blowing or opening up all the windows and have the ceiling fan going?

[Bugeater]

Heh, if it was me, I'd run that bitch even if it only meant the house was 5 degrees cooler than the temp outside. It's probably not the best thing for the compressor though.

[BigChiefFan]

Ah, gotcha. You're talking about attic fans.

The problem you're having is one that's been touched on a couple times before in this thread and is common to any two story home...you simply can't maintain the same temperature on both levels with a single system. Heat rises, cool air settles, end of story. You may be able to get them a little more closer by letting the fan run constantly, but when it's as hot as it's been lately I'd imagine your AC is running almost nonstop anyway.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the response. When I build a house in the future, what would you recommend as the most effecient system to use? Thanks, again, brother.

[BigChiefFan]

Look on Craigslist for a used window unit or two. A few years back, when our unit went out, it saved our ass.

[Titty Meat]

Fuck the compressor!

Thanks Bug

[LiveSteam]

Take a long drop cord,3way & a couple fans out side to your A/C unit,& set them so they blow threw the coils on the A/C.
It worked great on the Red Green show.

[LabRat38]

Okay another question for the AC dudes around here. We have a 4 year old Lennox system (XC14). Yesterday during the afternoon my wife calls to say the AC isn't working very well, if at all. The temperature had increased in our house from 80-84 in like 30 minutes. I tell her maybe it just can't keep up with the extreme heat, but that it does sound weird. When I get home it is already 88 in the house. So I go downstairs and check the AC. The 2 freon lines are almost the same temperature and feel like room air temp. The plenum above the evaporator doesn't feel cool either. I went outside and it doesn't sound like the compressor is running but the fan is. I say is doesn't sound like the compressor is running because it has always been very quiet anyway. I opened up the AC to wash off the condensor coils which were a little dirty but not bad. I put everything back together and turn the unit back on. Still nothing for about 30-60 minutes. Then all of the sudden it starts back up. It ran all night and was still running when I left for work this morning. We scheduled a 3:00 pm service appt for today when it wasn't working. Questions:
1. Does it make any sense to have a AC tech come out now that it is running?
2. What could have caused the unit to shut down for a few hours?
3. Is the compressor overheating and causing it to fault out and shut down? If so, what could cause that to happen?

[RustShack]

I just felt my coils. The one is cool, not quite as cool as a can of beer but pretty close. The other just feels like a coil.. wasn't warm or cool. Its set at 70 in the house, but the temperature is 80. Its been this way for a few weeks now. They came and fixed it, but after a few weeks its doing the same thing again. Blowing air, but not cool air. Outside the thing is blowing out air, but not as hot as it should be.

[Stewie]

It's 108 here now. I'm sure glad my A/C is running like a champ. It's a HEIL and has been great for 5 years.

[Bugeater]

Okay another question for the AC dudes around here. We have a 4 year old Lennox system (XC14). Yesterday during the afternoon my wife calls to say the AC isn't working very well, if at all. The temperature had increased in our house from 80-84 in like 30 minutes. I tell her maybe it just can't keep up with the extreme heat, but that it does sound weird. When I get home it is already 88 in the house. So I go downstairs and check the AC. The 2 freon lines are almost the same temperature and feel like room air temp. The plenum above the evaporator doesn't feel cool either. I went outside and it doesn't sound like the compressor is running but the fan is. I say is doesn't sound like the compressor is running because it has always been very quiet anyway. I opened up the AC to wash off the condensor coils which were a little dirty but not bad. I put everything back together and turn the unit back on. Still nothing for about 30-60 minutes. Then all of the sudden it starts back up. It ran all night and was still running when I left for work this morning. We scheduled a 3:00 pm service appt for today when it wasn't working. Questions:
1. Does it make any sense to have a AC tech come out now that it is running?
2. What could have caused the unit to shut down for a few hours?
3. Is the compressor overheating and causing it to fault out and shut down? If so, what could cause that to happen?
1. Yes, something isn't right. Make sure he tests all your caps.
2+3. Definitely sounds like it went into overload, which I've only had happen to units with dirty condensers or failed condenser fans.

I just felt my coils. The one is cool, not quite as cool as a can of beer but pretty close. The other just feels like a coil.. wasn't warm or cool. Its set at 70 in the house, but the temperature is 80. Its been this way for a few weeks now. They came and fixed it, but after a few weeks its doing the same thing again. Blowing air, but not cool air. Outside the thing is blowing out air, but not as hot as it should be.
I'd put my money on your system having a refrigerant leak, and if you're living in a multi-family dwelling they're nearly impossible to track down.

It's 108 here now. I'm sure glad my A/C is running like a champ. It's a HEIL and has been great for 5 years.
My current instructor at school is big on Heils, they have a 10 year warranty on their new units.

[Bugeater]

Thanks, man. I appreciate the response. When I build a house in the future, what would you recommend as the most effecient system to use? Thanks, again, brother.
Having a system properly installed is exponentially more important than the brand name.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

My AC just went out. Went outside to check the unit. Something is on/running in the unit...but the fan isn't spinning...?

AC man coming out tomorrow.

[Titty Meat]

Heh it was just a fuse rod that needed to be replaced? Costed 7 bucks and 75 total for service.

[Bugeater]

My AC just went out. Went outside to check the unit. Something is on/running in the unit...but the fan isn't spinning...?

AC man coming out tomorrow.
Sounds like the same thing Billay's was doing.

[Titty Meat]

Yep fuse was blown on mine. I'd suggest the guy to you but sounds like you already have someone coming out. Everyplace in town charged 89 bucks just to come out this guy charged 55 but since he was doing it after hours it was 75. It took him literally 5 minutes.

[SLAG]

Hey Guys
I've been trying to get ahold of my Normal HVAC guy but he's not returning my calls (maybe he's on vacation?) Anyway... as some of you know we Moved to IL but rented out my house in KS - my tenants are saying that the Outside unit will kick on but the blower in the house isn't going.

Anyone there in the JoCo area willing to be my contractor and not screw me over/ gouge me?

Any suggestions for a quick fix for my tenants?

TIA

[Bugeater]

Tell them to open their fucking windows.

[SLAG]

Tell them to open their ****ing windows.

LOL
They aren't really complaining but the blower isn't coming on for the heater either..
I dont want to look like some lame duck landlord either..so there is that too

but yes the windows are open AFAIK at this point - still needs to be fixed

[Bugeater]

LOL
They aren't really complaining but the blower isn't coming on for the heater either..
I dont want to look like some lame duck landlord either..so there is that too

but yes the windows are open AFAIK at this point - still needs to be fixed
If the fan isn't working at all then it either lost power, has a bad capacitor or the motor is cooked.

Tell them to check the fuse on the shutoff switch by the furnace.

[KCinNY]

Approximately how much is it to replace an automatic ignition for a furnace?

The furnace heats and blows fine but late last winter it struggled lighting.

[SPchief]

Hey Guys
I've been trying to get ahold of my Normal HVAC guy but he's not returning my calls (maybe he's on vacation?) Anyway... as some of you know we Moved to IL but rented out my house in KS - my tenants are saying that the Outside unit will kick on but the blower in the house isn't going.

Anyone there in the JoCo area willing to be my contractor and not screw me over/ gouge me?

Any suggestions for a quick fix for my tenants?

TIA

It's sixty fucking degrees outside

[SPchief]

Tell them to open their ****ing windows.

Should have read farther.

doh

[Bugeater]

Approximately how much is it to replace an automatic ignition for a furnace?

The furnace heats and blows fine but late last winter it struggled lighting.
Struggled lighting the pilot flame, or the burners?

[KCinNY]

Struggled lighting the pilot flame, or the burners?

Pilot flame. When it lights the burners always quickly followed.

[Bugeater]

Pilot flame. When it lights the burners always quickly followed.
Ah, gotcha. As far as cost, I don't think that would be a very expensive fix but it could vary widely depending on the brand of the furnace and the labor rate and markup of who you call to fix it. If it's easily accessible you might just try cleaning the thing up first.

[KCinNY]

Ah, gotcha. As far as cost, I don't think that would be a very expensive fix but it could vary widely depending on the brand of the furnace and the labor rate and markup of who you call to fix it. If it's easily accessible you might just try cleaning the thing up first.

Thanks for the knowledge, Bugeater.

[Simply Red]

Ah, gotcha. As far as cost, I don't think that would be a very expensive fix but it could vary widely depending on the brand of the furnace and the labor rate and markup of who you call to fix it. If it's easily accessible you might just try cleaning the thing up first.

+30% on parts, most likely - plus whatever their labor rate is, like you'd mentioned.

[chiefs2012]

Do I want to keep my attic space open or closed in the summer?

[Hammock Parties]

Big trees around your house will help, too.

[Bugeater]

Since my online stalker bumped this, I'll take the opportunity to mention that now is the time to check your condensing units and make sure they don't look like the one in the OP. And even if they don't it's not a bad idea to hose them out anyway.

[cabletech94]

so, realized my ac is not working this morning.
last year, the ac guy replaced the outside fan. seized up, wouldn't move. fans inside blowing air, just not cold. went outside,fan is off, pressed the small red (reset?) button, unit kicked on. the goddamned fan doesn't move (just like last year), but the unit kicked on, while the fan is not.
what's the general warranty on parts like this? why the hell did it freeze up again? why why why why why?

(any advice is greatly appreciated!!!)
thanks in advance

[Bugeater]

Did he replace the capacitor when he replaced the fan motor?

[mlyonsd]

Did he replace the capacitor when he replaced the fan motor?Damn capacitors.

[Bugeater]

Damn capacitors.
Heh, this hot weather will really get them popping. Almost all of our breakdowns this time of year are bad caps.

[The Franchise]

Hey Bug......what's the average price of a new 3.5 ton AC unit?

[mlyonsd]

Heh, this hot weather will really get them popping. Almost all of our breakdowns this time of year are bad caps.If cabletech's problem is the capacitor, would the unit kick back on after pushing the reset?

[Bugeater]

Hey Bug......what's the average price of a new 3.5 ton AC unit?
I don't know off the top of my head, I don't do new installs. Chief Roundup may be able to give you a idea but like anything else, prices are going to vary.

[Bugeater]

If cabletech's problem is the capacitor, would the unit kick back on after pushing the reset?
The compressor and the condenser fan motor both have their own caps, so it's possible for just one of the two to come on. What I'm assuming is his compressor is overheating due to the condenser fan not working and shutting down, and the reset is allowing it to kick back on until it overheats again.

[cabletech94]

If cabletech's problem is the capacitor, would the unit kick back on after pushing the reset?

actually, cap got hit by lightning 2 years ago. replaced then. i opened up the unit, inspected all that i could. no chewed wires, no frosted or hot copperlines either. i spun the fan unit by hand and it freely spun. the cap on the other hand looks extremely rusted out on the underneath side.
i locked everything back down. turned inside unit back on and finally powered outside unit back up too. unit kicked on, but no fan spin. unit sounded like it was working properly and after about 90 seconds the outside unit shut off. i could feel heat coming off the unit as well, but still no fan.
walked inside, vents blower cooler air than before, but not sure if actually cold as should be.
anything else i should look for? would a fan that was replaced about 11 months ago be under warranty?

[The Franchise]

Thats the problem I just had with mine. The tech put a hard start on it.

[mlyonsd]

The compressor and the condenser fan motor both have their own caps, so it's possible for just one of the two to come on. What I'm assuming is his compressor is overheating due to the condenser fan not working and shutting down, and the reset is allowing it to kick back on until it overheats again.I'm glad I asked. Last week when I had to have both of them replaced because of the mini fire I got to wondering later why there were two of them. Thanks.

[cabletech94]

The compressor and the condenser fan motor both have their own caps, so it's possible for just one of the two to come on. What I'm assuming is his compressor is overheating due to the condenser fan not working and shutting down, and the reset is allowing it to kick back on until it overheats again.

this sounds like it might be what is happening.

i didn't realize that there are (our could be 2 caps). the one i'm aware of looks like a tin can bolted to underneath side of service unit. where might the other one be?

[SAUTO]

I'm having a new 2.5 ton unit installed in my add on as we speak, everything new even ductwork, obviously with a new construction. Right around four grand.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bugeater]

All the cap does is give the motor a boost to get started. With the unit turned on, go out and try to give a shove to one of the fan blades with a screwdriver or something and see if it starts.

[SAUTO]

If it's anything like a car pressures probably skyrocket when the fan doesn't run and the high pressure cut off switch kills the compressor
Posted via Mobile Device

[mlyonsd]

this sounds like it might be what is happening.

i didn't realize that there are (our could be 2 caps). the one i'm aware of looks like a tin can bolted to underneath side of service unit. where might the other one be?Where the power comes in is there a plate that can be removed? (turn off breaker first of course)

[Bugeater]

I'm glad I asked. Last week when I had to have both of them replaced because of the mini fire I got to wondering later why there were two of them. Thanks.

this sounds like it might be what is happening.

i didn't realize that there are (our could be 2 caps). the one i'm aware of looks like a tin can bolted to underneath side of service unit. where might the other one be?
Sometimes there are two separate caps, but most units actually use a "dual-cap" like this one:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLtyvthFx6MpghHLa9eth8jxKzqIgP0ZtMxNa-6m7ISJFYGG1YIg

It's basically two caps in one, and it is possible for just one section to go bad.

[Bugeater]

If it's anything like a car pressures probably skyrocket when the fan doesn't run and the high pressure cut off switch kills the compressor
Posted via Mobile Device
Exactly.

[|Zach|]

I am trying to put my dick in my AC unit somewhere where it can be an enjoyable experience but running into problems finding a decent spot.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[SAUTO]

I am trying to put my dick in my AC unit somewhere where it can be an enjoyable experience but running into problems finding a decent spot.

Thanks in advance for your help. just wait for the fan to run and shove it in there.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Stewie]

I am trying to put my dick in my AC unit somewhere where it can be an enjoyable experience but running into problems finding a decent spot.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Your A/C unit is not gay. You need to find one that is... or go D/C.

[Bugeater]

I am trying to put my dick in my AC unit somewhere where it can be an enjoyable experience but running into problems finding a decent spot.

Thanks in advance for your help.
I've already tried every possible spot, and I have yet to find a good one myself. Sorry.

[cabletech94]

All the cap does is give the motor a boost to get started. With the unit turned on, go out and try to give a shove to one of the fan blades with a screwdriver or something and see if it starts.

this.

fan is now moving and cold air is coming out!
still not gonna get sex 'cause momma says this is somehow my fault.

what do i need to do to insure that this doesn't happen again? (in other words, what's wrong?")

[|Zach|]

I've already tried every possible spot, and I have yet to find a good one myself. Sorry.

Should have known better than to fuck a fan. So I'm never gonna dance again.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/izGwDsrQ1eQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cabletech94]

plus, i didn't have a screwdriver long enough to reach, so i used my huge cock.

/heteros of CP

[mlyonsd]

this.

fan is now moving and cold air is coming out!
still not gonna get sex 'cause momma says this is somehow my fault.

what do i need to do to insure that this doesn't happen again? (in other words, what's wrong?")When it shuts off you'll have to spin the fan blade again to get it started.

And, about the sex.....tell her you won't start the fan again until she agrees to service you.

[cabletech94]

so, is it the fan that's gone bad again? or could this be a cap (mine appears to be the dual cap that bug put on, for the record, i'm pretty sure it's the fan) issue?

[Bugeater]

so, is it the fan that's gone bad again? or could this be a cap (mine appears to be the dual cap that bug put on, for the record, i'm pretty sure it's the fan) issue?
It's definitely the cap. No question about it.

[Bugeater]

When it shuts off you'll have to spin the fan blade again to get it started.

And, about the sex.....tell her you won't start the fan again until she agrees to service you.:LOL: This is solid advice. And don't let her know what you did to get it going. You could use this to your advantage all summer long.

[cabletech94]

It's definitely the cap. No question about it.

thanks for the advice!!! watched the kid replace that 2 years ago. the supply store doesn't open 'til the morning, i'll go get a replacement and change it out @ lunch time tomorrow!!!
many thanks to you my friend (and friends)!!!!:clap:

[SAUTO]

It's definitely the cap. No question about it.

I'm

NOT NOT NOT
recommending doing this.


But couldn't a guy theoretically stick say some folded up cardboard in the fan relay and make it just run all the time, compressor on or off?

Just until the repair could be made.

this type weather it isn't shutting of much anyway.
Posted via Mobile Device

[cabletech94]

maybe the best theories are the one we keep to ourselves?:rolleyes:



p.s. i think that's a good idea, but the old lady is afraid of me walking down the street just before dusk, if you know what i mean.LMAO
I'm

NOT NOT NOT
recommending doing this.


But couldn't a guy theoretically stick say some folded up cardboard in the fan relay and make it just run all the time, compressor on or off?

Just until the repair could be made.

this type weather it isn't shutting of much anyway.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bugeater]

thanks for the advice!!! watched the kid replace that 2 years ago. the supply store doesn't open 'til the morning, i'll go get a replacement and change it out @ lunch time tomorrow!!!
many thanks to you my friend (and friends)!!!!:clap:
Yeah they're easy to change out, but keep in mind those things can store a charge and make sure the power is off. I also use insulated needlenose pliers to change over the wires. When it comes to electricity I always "treat it like it's hot, even when it's not".

[SAUTO]

maybe the best theories are the one we keep to ourselves?:rolleyes:



p.s. i think that's a good idea, but the old lady is afraid of me walking down the street just before dusk, if you know what i mean.LMAO
I would just trip the breaker and make it happen, but I'm also not a pussy.


Like I said I'm not recommending just anyone try it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Yeah they're easy to change out, but keep in mind those things can store a charge and make sure the power is off. I also use insulated needlenose pliers to change over the wires. When it comes to electricity I always "treat it like it's hot, even when it's not".
This
Posted via Mobile Device

[cabletech94]

Yeah they're easy to change out, but keep in mind those things can store a charge and make sure the power is off. I also use insulated needlenose pliers to change over the wires. When it comes to electricity I always "treat it like it's hot, even when it's not".

yup, you're absolutely right. we used to change out network cards in computers for internet years ago.
one of the things that we "had" to do was unplug the power cord, and then press the power button on the comp. 95 percent of the time the tower unit would have a small burst of power left in it. can't ever be too careful.
so if you guys don't hear from me after noon tomorrow.............

[Bugeater]

I'm

NOT NOT NOT
recommending doing this.


But couldn't a guy theoretically stick say some folded up cardboard in the fan relay and make it just run all the time, compressor on or off?

Just until the repair could be made.

this type weather it isn't shutting of much anyway.
Posted via Mobile Device
Condensing units use a contactor coil that energizes both the fan and compressor at the same time, you can't really have one going without the other. But like you said, it's not going to shut down much when it's this hot out, just bump the thermostat down and let 'er rip for the afternoon and evening.

[Bugeater]

yup, you're absolutely right. we used to change out network cards in computers for internet years ago.
one of the things that we "had" to do was unplug the power cord, and then press the power button on the comp. 95 percent of the time the tower unit would have a small burst of power left in it. can't ever be too careful.
so if you guys don't hear from me after noon tomorrow.............
Also pay attention to the terminals on cap, one set is fan, the middle is the common and the other side is usually marked "herm" for the compressor. You don't want to get those turned around.

[Titty Meat]

This thread was very handy last year. Thanks Bug.

[Mr. Kotter]

Hey, Bug....missed this last year. Thanks for the tips.

[Stewie]

Eight year old HEIL, eight years of comfort. 100+ temperatures outside, 70s inside. Quiet and efficient.

[Bugeater]

One of my instructors at school was really big on HEIL. I have a 5 yr old Armstrong and it's holding 75, although it's everything for it to do that. I really needed a bigger unit for my house.

[Dunit35]

It's hard to stop a Trane.

We cleaned a Heil the other day, double coil, never been cleaned.

[Stewie]

Eight year old HEIL, eight years of comfort. 100+ temperatures outside, 70s inside. Quiet and efficient.

I jinxed it! It appears my capacitor for the fan has gone bad (fan won't spin, just makes a humming noise).

Question: I can get the fan to spin using the screwdriver trick, but it doesn't get up to the RPMs it does in normal operation. Is it still the cap, or could it be something else?

I have a tech on the way, but I wanted to get opinions from the CP knowledge base.

[Saulbadguy]

http://www.handymanmatters.com/wichita/files/2011/06/Dirty-AC-Condenser.jpg



Haha, I saw this thread before this Summer and my AC looked much worst than that. I had never even looked at it before.

[Stewie]

It was the cap. Service call and part = $90. Not bad. It's cooling down nicely.

[Frosty]

Anyone have any experience with the ductless A/C systems?

[Mr. Laz]

shouldn't all outside AC units have a little roof over then to keep the sun off?


seems to me that having the sun beat directly down on unit would make it work harder.

[Baby Lee]

shouldn't all outside AC units have a little roof over then to keep the sun off?


seems to me that having the sun beat directly down on unit would make it work harder.

There is very little involved in the cooling processes in the top-down cross section [ie, where the fan is spinning, and where the sun is bearing down directly], and both the air flow across the radiator fins and the cooling of gas expansion FAR FAR outstrip the heat gains of the sun striking the radiator fins obliquely.

[Bearcat]

So here's a question for you HVAC gurus:

My house has a main floor, an upper floor, and a finished basement. The furnace and everything is located in the basement. As is probably a pretty common problem, it's a giant pain in the ass to cool the upper floor; the main floor is fine; and the basement turns into a walk-in freezer if I leave the vents open.

The big issue aside from the whole "heat rises" thing is that the amount of air coming out of the vents in the basement is MUCH higher in the basement than the main floor and much higher on the main floor than the upper floor.

So I guess my question is just whether there are "best practices" to make the most of this. My guess is that the underlying issue isn't an easy fix. But I've been shutting the vents all the way off in the basement since it stays cool on its own. Is that a bad thing based on what you guys have been saying?

That's the same issue as differences from room-to-room which I touched on in the last paragraph. Open the vents, and leave the thermostat on the "Fan On" setting for a couple days and see if it makes a difference.


Thanks for the tips (two years later)... that's pretty much my issue. I closed a vent in the basement, and as it's been discussed in this thread, it didn't make a difference upstairs. Last night it took about 3 hours to knock off 5 degrees upstairs, all while it was 20 degrees cooler in the basement.

Stupid n00b question... I've thought about running the attic fan (or 'whole house fan' as apparently non-Midwesterners call it) early in the morning when it's in the 60s to cool off the house a few degrees, but it looks like that might not help much overall due to moisture/humidity levels.

Is there any value in running it at any time during the summer, possibly to help pull up the cool air from the basement? I've seen a lot of conflicting information online... I tried it last night and there was a noticeable difference in airflow coming up from the basement, but I've only had the AC on a couple of days, so I haven't had much time to experiment. I've read in some places that it's not a good idea, you'll be sucking conditioned air out of the house, etc... and I've read in other places that running it for 20 minutes before turning on the AC can be beneficial... and another site said you can run it with the AC on, dependent on a few factors like air returns, etc.

The seller paid for a home warranty, which at first glance covers seasonal maintenance, so I'll probably just go that route sometime soon, since I don't believe anyone lived there for a while and it could probably use it... but, I'll check out the info in the OP this afternoon, too.

[jiveturkey]

So closing my basement vents is a bad idea? I've been it for years without even thinking about it.

[ptlyon]

Oh God - better go check my unit :bolt:

[Stewie]

Thanks for the tips (two years later)... that's pretty much my issue. I closed a vent in the basement, and as it's been discussed in this thread, it didn't make a difference upstairs. Last night it took about 3 hours to knock off 5 degrees upstairs, all while it was 20 degrees cooler in the basement.

Stupid n00b question... I've thought about running the attic fan (or 'whole house fan' as apparently non-Midwesterners call it) early in the morning when it's in the 60s to cool off the house a few degrees, but it looks like that might not help much overall due to moisture/humidity levels.

Is there any value in running it at any time during the summer, possibly to help pull up the cool air from the basement? I've seen a lot of conflicting information online... I tried it last night and there was a noticeable difference in airflow coming up from the basement, but I've only had the AC on a couple of days, so I haven't had much time to experiment. I've read in some places that it's not a good idea, you'll be sucking conditioned air out of the house, etc... and I've read in other places that running it for 20 minutes before turning on the AC can be beneficial... and another site said you can run it with the AC on, dependent on a few factors like air returns, etc.

The seller paid for a home warranty, which at first glance covers seasonal maintenance, so I'll probably just go that route sometime soon, since I don't believe anyone lived there for a while and it could probably use it... but, I'll check out the info in the OP this afternoon, too.

Does your system have dampers? Most do. I'd check to make sure they're set properly.

[Bugeater]

So closing my basement vents is a bad idea? I've been it for years without even thinking about it.
Heh, it depends on who you ask. One of my instructors when I was going to school was adamant that you are better off leaving them all open, but I still shut off the ones in my basement as well. It's freaking cool enough down there with them shut, I'll freeze my ass off if I open them.

[AustinChief]

Heh, it depends on who you ask. One of my instructors when I was going to school was adamant that you are better off leaving them all open, but I still shut off the ones in my basement as well. It's freaking cool enough down there with them shut, I'll freeze my ass off if I open them.

The whole "don't close vents" thing makes no sense to me. So, by that logic, I shouldn't install a room to room zoning system with dampers in the lines because it is effectively the same thing. Shouldn't someone tell the dozens of manufacturers out there about this? http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/zoning/zoning_products.html

[Bowser]

The neighbors fucking dog keeps jumping the fence and digging behind my AC unit. The thing now sits at like a 25 degree angle.

[Bugeater]

The whole "don't close vents" thing makes no sense to me. So, by that logic, I shouldn't install a room to room zoning system with dampers in the lines because it is effectively the same thing. Shouldn't someone tell the dozens of manufacturers out there about this? http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/zoning/zoning_products.html
I don't know anything about that but I'm assuming it's some type of system that constantly monitors temperatures and adjusts airflow to each room accordingly, which isn't quite the same thing as closing a vent for an entire summer.

[ptlyon]

The neighbors ****ing dog keeps jumping the fence and digging behind my AC unit. The thing now sits at like a 25 degree angle.

Time to leave a fresh, refreshing bowl of antifreeze out for when he gets hot

[AustinChief]

I don't know anything about that but I'm assuming it's some type of system that constantly monitors temperatures and adjusts airflow to each room accordingly, which isn't quite the same thing as closing a vent for an entire summer.

Yeah, it basically is just a bunch of dampers in the ducts that open and close based on each room's temp. Which to me seems like it's the same as someone manually opening/closing registers. I just don't see why one is an accepted practice and the other is not. I have no clue if zoning is actually is a good idea... but I can't see any way that it could be ok and the other less technical method is not.

[Bugeater]

Yeah, it basically is just a bunch of dampers in the ducts that open and close based on each room's temp. Which to me seems like it's the same as someone manually opening/closing registers. I just don't see why one is an accepted practice and the other is not. I have no clue if zoning is actually is a good idea... but I can't see any way that it could be ok and the other less technical method is not.
That type of system is capable of making constant adjustments, most people aren't going to fuck with their vents several times a day. They either leave them shut or open.

Plus, I'm guessing that system is costly, whereas using the blower to constantly move air is not.

[AustinChief]

That type of system is capable of making constant adjustments, most people aren't going to fuck with their vents several times a day. They either leave them shut or open.

Plus, I'm guessing that system is costly, whereas using the blower to constantly move air is not.

I get what your saying but it still just isn't making sense to me.

In my head(dangerous, I know) I am thinking that "balancing" a system by adjusting the airflow in the ducts is basically the same as balancing it at the registers. Yet everything I see online seems to say don't mess with the registers. It makes me think its all a scam to get those people to invest in the expensive inline control system.

oh. btw thanks to everyone for the input on my parents house. They ended up just replacing the a-coil for now and waiting to upgrade the system down the road.

On a semi-related note... the only issue they have now is in a separate section of the house. One back bedroom is always "off" when it comes to heating or cooling. The unit for that area works perfectly for everywhere but that room. The theory is that the ducting to that room is undersized and since it also is the furthest from the blower it is never going to be "right."

Any suggestions? I was thinking they could go with an inline booster fan but I have no clue if the smaller duct work will be a major issue. Or would they be just as well off going with something like this...

http://www.appliancesconnection.com/lg-ls093he-i166625.html?ref=pricegrabbermain

http://img2.appliancesconnection.com/product/290x260/fddf1f93130c658dd2a18426a12cd52b.jpg

My apartment in Europe had these in each major room and they absolutely kicked ass.

[TambaBerry]

Cant you get a smaller unit that only works for the upstairs? I mean I realize you would have to get a whole new entire system.

[Bugeater]

I get what your saying but it still just isn't making sense to me.

In my head(dangerous, I know) I am thinking that "balancing" a system by adjusting the airflow in the ducts is basically the same as balancing it at the registers. Yet everything I see online seems to say don't mess with the registers. It makes me think its all a scam to get those people to invest in the expensive inline control system.
Again, I haven't researched it but I'm guessing it only makes minor adjustments to the airflow, where it may only be closing the damper part of the way instead of completely cutting a room off. And believe me, I have had trouble wrapping my brain around this as well, I've admitted that much earlier in this thread. I guess the main point is that if you're shutting off a room thinking it's going to save you money by not cooling it, or that it's going to make rest of the house cooler, it's not going to do either of those things.


oh. btw thanks to everyone for the input on my parents house. They ended up just replacing the a-coil for now and waiting to upgrade the system down the road.

On a semi-related note... the only issue they have now is in a separate section of the house. One back bedroom is always "off" when it comes to heating or cooling. The unit for that area works perfectly for everywhere but that room. The theory is that the ducting to that room is undersized and since it also is the furthest from the blower it is never going to be "right."

Any suggestions? I was thinking they could go with an inline booster fan but I have no clue if the smaller duct work will be a major issue. Or would they be just as well off going with something like this...

http://www.appliancesconnection.com/lg-ls093he-i166625.html?ref=pricegrabbermain

http://img2.appliancesconnection.com/product/290x260/fddf1f93130c658dd2a18426a12cd52b.jpg

My apartment in Europe had these in each major room and they absolutely kicked ass.
The former owner of our house added a room to the end of the house, and we have the same issue, it's too far away from the blower and doesn't get good airflow. I tried an inline fan and it was useless, I swear it moves even less air than the blower because it sounds like it speeds up every time the system kicks on.

[DaneMcCloud]

http://www.appliancesconnection.com/lg-ls093he-i166625.html?ref=pricegrabbermain

http://img2.appliancesconnection.com/product/290x260/fddf1f93130c658dd2a18426a12cd52b.jpg

My apartment in Europe had these in each major room and they absolutely kicked ass.

I purchased an LG one ton unit last year for a special room in my home. The unit is absolutely amazing but the installation was a major pain in the ass, at least in Cali.

Costco and a few other places offered a $2800 dollar installation, which included a California state rebate, so the price was actually $3500. I thought that was fairly exorbitant because I found my unit on sale online for $1275 shipped (which included all of the necessary parts).

Since we had ongoing renovations happening at that time, I had my contractor install it. Little did I know that the unit needed to be purged and charged before cooling properly, something my contractor didn't know, either. So, I called about a dozen A/C contractors and NONE of them would service my unit because they didn't personally install it. It was the most frustrating issue I've ever had to deal with (and I've dealt with an enormous amount over the years).

Finally, my contractor's A/C guy offered to do it for $800.00. So in the end, I spent about $2,700, which is better than $3,500.00 but for all the hassle I had to deal with the time involved (there was about a 3 week wait after the unit was installed), I'd have just as soon paid $3,400 and be done with it.

Good luck!

[DaneMcCloud]

FWIW, this is the unit I purchased. It also required a drain hose, a 25 foot 1/4 LL 3/8 SL Lineset w/ Flare Fitting for Ductless Mini Split and 25 Ft 14 AWG 4 Conductor Ductless Mini Split Shielded Stranded Wire Control Wire. Those items were an additional $150.00 dollars.

https://www.acwholesalers.com/LG/LA120HSV2-12000-BTU-20-SEER-Ductless-Heat-Pump-Air-Conditioner/29894.ac

[Chief Roundup]

Yeah, it basically is just a bunch of dampers in the ducts that open and close based on each room's temp. Which to me seems like it's the same as someone manually opening/closing registers. I just don't see why one is an accepted practice and the other is not. I have no clue if zoning is actually is a good idea... but I can't see any way that it could be ok and the other less technical method is not.

I haven't read everything you all have been posting about.
Zoning and closing dampers with a system is a lot different than closing a register off.
You can close off up to 10% of your airflow before causing problems with the extra static pressure.
Zone systems are designed to open and close dampers based on demand. But there will be a "dump" zone, where the excess air will go when it is not needed. A lot of zone systems also are on two-stage equipment where the system can check the demand and maybe only bring on the first stage of the compressor and fans, then ramp up as needed if the demand increases.

[Chief Roundup]

Ductless Mini Splits are a very very good way to go if you can.

[Tytanium]

Thanks for the tips (two years later)... that's pretty much my issue. I closed a vent in the basement, and as it's been discussed in this thread, it didn't make a difference upstairs. Last night it took about 3 hours to knock off 5 degrees upstairs, all while it was 20 degrees cooler in the basement.

Stupid n00b question... I've thought about running the attic fan (or 'whole house fan' as apparently non-Midwesterners call it) early in the morning when it's in the 60s to cool off the house a few degrees, but it looks like that might not help much overall due to moisture/humidity levels.

Is there any value in running it at any time during the summer, possibly to help pull up the cool air from the basement? I've seen a lot of conflicting information online... I tried it last night and there was a noticeable difference in airflow coming up from the basement, but I've only had the AC on a couple of days, so I haven't had much time to experiment. I've read in some places that it's not a good idea, you'll be sucking conditioned air out of the house, etc... and I've read in other places that running it for 20 minutes before turning on the AC can be beneficial... and another site said you can run it with the AC on, dependent on a few factors like air returns, etc.

The seller paid for a home warranty, which at first glance covers seasonal maintenance, so I'll probably just go that route sometime soon, since I don't believe anyone lived there for a while and it could probably use it... but, I'll check out the info in the OP this afternoon, too.

I signed up for the wattsaver deal at Westar and it includes a very nice touchscreen thermostat. It has a "circulate" setting where in addition to the blower coming on when the compressor cycles, it will periodically turn on the blower to circulate air for 30 minutes. Very cool option, and helps keep my upstairs/downstairs temps a little more even. I also installed some Gila window film on my old-ass west facing windows and that has definitely improved my upstairs temps in the afternoon and evening.

[AustinChief]

I haven't read everything you all have been posting about.
Zoning and closing dampers with a system is a lot different than closing a register off.
You can close off up to 10% of your airflow before causing problems with the extra static pressure.
Zone systems are designed to open and close dampers based on demand. But there will be a "dump" zone, where the excess air will go when it is not needed. A lot of zone systems also are on two-stage equipment where the system can check the demand and maybe only bring on the first stage of the compressor and fans, then ramp up as needed if the demand increases.

I get that with zoned systems that were designed that way...but I see a ton of stuff for retrofitting a system to be zoned. In those cases you are basically just doing the same thing as shutting off a register... or am I off base here? So basically you are saying shutting off registers or half-ass retrofitting won;t do you a lick of good?

Ductless Mini Splits are a very very good way to go if you can.

Cool. I think I'll tell them to go that route. At that point should they just cap off the duct running to that room or should they leave it as is and use the ductless unit to supplement it?

[AustinChief]

The former owner of our house added a room to the end of the house, and we have the same issue, it's too far away from the blower and doesn't get good airflow. I tried an inline fan and it was useless, I swear it moves even less air than the blower because it sounds like it speeds up every time the system kicks on.

That's what I am afraid of. I think I'll try to convince them to go with a ductless unit back there.

[cabletech94]

how is bug STILLin the RED?

this guy is a golden god (no homo)!!!

saved my ass with his tips twice in previous years.

we should put him on a pedestal. STAT!