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Tribal Warfare
07-31-2011, 12:03 AM
Chiefs likely to take step back this year while still progressing toward better future (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/30/3047461/chiefs-likely-to-take-step-back.html)
SAM MELLINGER COMMENTARY

ST. JOSEPH | This isn’t good enough. Not yet, anyway, and probably not until next year.

Everything is happy around here at Chiefs camp. Cheerleaders mingle with fans, misters keep folks from overheating, and player after player smiles and talks about how terrific it all is.

“This is great,” quarterback Matt Cassel says.

“I’m so excited,” running back Dexter McCluster says.

“Obviously we’re going to get better and better,” linebacker Andy Studebaker says.

The reality is that this has the look of an interesting season, fun at times, but ultimately a big disappointment if you expect another AFC West championship.

They’re just not good enough.

This comes through in conversations with lifelong football people, some inside the Chiefs organization, and is backed up by statistical analysis, history and a closer look at what happened last year.

Let’s start with that. One NFL personnel man calls the Chiefs’ division championship “a mirage.” They faced only two playoff teams, and one of them was the 7-9 Seahawks. They went 2-4 in the division and, counting a limp effort against the Ravens in a home playoff game, 2-5 against teams that finished .500 or better.

A season-opening win against the Chargers was fueled by the energy of opening “new” Arrowhead, and played in a virtual monsoon. The Browns committed nine penalties, missed a 42-yard field goal, and fumbled away another scoring chance in a two-point loss. The Chiefs beat the 4-12 Bills at home in overtime after what would’ve been Buffalo’s game-winning field goal didn’t count because of a timeout.

Take away any of those wins, and the Chiefs don’t make the playoffs. Project it against even an average NFL schedule, and it’s maybe a 7-9 season.

“This is an improving team,” another NFL personnel man says. “But I have a feeling people are expecting too much. Right now, I see (them) as just OK.”

Advanced stats back this up, mostly putting the Chiefs in the middle or just below after adjusting for schedule strength.

The Chiefs went from 4-12 in 2009 to 10-6 last year and you may have seen the relevant statistic first discovered by Cold Hard Football Facts this summer. They found 30 teams that improved by five wins or more between 2002 and 2009, and 24 of them won fewer games the season after the improvement. Thirteen of those dropped by at least four wins.

The Chiefs look like the perfect team to illustrate that trend this year.

In most cases, talk about a difficult schedule is wasted energy because of the league’s unpredictable nature. But this is the exception because the Chiefs have essentially gone from the Sun Belt to the SEC.

The Las Vegas sports books, for example, are projecting that six Chiefs’ opponents will win 10 or more games. Last year, only one did.

Even within their own division, the Chargers figure to be better. If you value offseason work, the Chargers did as much or more of it during the lockout than any other team in football. They strengthened the defense, and it’s hard to imagine their special teams being an unmitigated disaster again.

Even after losing star cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha through free agency, some around the league are picking the Raiders to win the division. Remember, they beat the Chiefs twice last year, including a beatdown in the last game of the regular season.

At best, the offensive line lacks depth and — outside of the unproven Jon Asamoah replacing Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters — is a year older. The Chiefs have talented skill position players, but the line was manhandled in back-to-back weeks the final two games of last season.

Defensively, same thing. Tamba Hali, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry and Derrick Johnson give the Chiefs legitimate playmakers. But there’s a hole at inside linebacker opposite Johnson, at defensive end opposite Hali, and the signing of 34-year-old Kelly Gregg isn’t enough to address the weakness at nose tackle.

How’s it make you feel if Tyson Jackson is the key to the defensive line?

It is absurdly early to make any definitive statements. Today will be the team’s third practice. The first game that matters is still more than a month away. Free agents remain to be signed, trades remain to be made, and the Chiefs figure to be active on the waiver wire.

In other words, the team that plays the Bills on Sept. 11 will be different from the one practicing today.

Wide receiver Steve Breaston is a smart pickup, and the Chiefs should score a lot of points if the offensive line holds together. Defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel has a reputation for pushing players — particularly in the front seven — to their potential.

There are just too many ifs at the moment to say with any certainty that the Chiefs will be better than average.

This team is in the awkward and frustrating position of being likely to win fewer games this year but still maintaining its march toward better days.

Remember that stat about how often teams fall back after big improvements?

That trend is nearly as promising for teams the year after their fall. Most of them reach the playoffs and here’s the best part for Chiefs fans:

Three of the last four Super Bowl winners were within two years of their fall-back season.

The signs are everywhere that the Chiefs are headed toward some of the best years in a proud franchise’s history. It just won’t be this season.

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 12:08 AM
http://partneryahoo.photobucket.com/albums/f364/kiwigirl010/challenge-accepted.png?t=1302914842

Just Passin' By
07-31-2011, 12:21 AM
The Chiefs went from 4-12 in 2009 to 10-6 last year and you may have seen the relevant statistic first discovered by Cold Hard Football Facts this summer. They found 30 teams that improved by five wins or more between 2002 and 2009, and 24 of them won fewer games the season after the improvement. Thirteen of those dropped by at least four wins.

But it's all just excuses! LMAO

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:31 AM
the pussies are going to love that article...

speaking of which, i bet that stupid pats fan is jerking in cassel's coffee right now, now that we've been told our QB can't overcome not having a perfect team


anyone else embarrassed by this PR surrender? or is this what true fans actually believe?

Fritz88
07-31-2011, 12:37 AM
Agreed.
Posted via Mobile Device

tk13
07-31-2011, 12:40 AM
I know the schedule will be more difficult, it's almost impossible to imagine one weaker than last year. But I always hate it when people talk about how hard the schedule is supposed to be before a preseason game has been played. Every year half the teams you think are going to be good aren't, and a handful of bad teams rise up and win. Happens every year. I'm sure everyone had the Chiefs down as an easy "W" about one year ago.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:40 AM
Chiefs: "It's not our fault we suck...everyone else is just better"

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:43 AM
Chiefs "As soon as Roethlesburger, Brady, Manning, and Rivers die we might win a playoff game, but not until then....but give us credit for trying"

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:46 AM
Chiefs: "We're not good enough just because...no one is responsible"

Chiefs Pantalones
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
This is a dumb article. If our Chiefs have the same backbone (or lack thereof) as this writer we won't be repeating as AFC West champs. What a terrible attitude geez.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:48 AM
Chiefs: "Our success or failure is determined by celestial movements"

Fritz88
07-31-2011, 12:50 AM
the pussies are going to love that article...

speaking of which, i bet that stupid pats fan is jerking in cassel's coffee right now, now that we've been told our QB can't overcome not having a perfect team


anyone else embarrassed by this PR surrender? or is this what true fans actually believe?

It is funny because true fans are portrayed as the ones believing things are fine and we should end with a 10+ win season. Now because the article seemed like horseshit to you then it is true fans that believe we'll have a 6 win season? This is so retarded it reminds me of 1984's Doublethink, believing two contradictory opinions.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dave Lane
07-31-2011, 12:52 AM
Chiefs "As soon as Roethlesburger, Brady, Manning, and Rivers die we might win a playoff game, but not until then....but give us credit for trying"

Dude winning less games this year is a very real possibility. I think it is a high probability. It does mean the team isn't better or the year after that we will be breaking it off in Paytons poop chute. I just don't think it's there yet. I hope they prove me wrong. They did last year.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:54 AM
believing two contradictory opinions.
Posted via Mobile Device

"Cassel is awesome....but we're going to suck this year"

"Pioli is a genious...but we're going to suck this year

"we're a good team...but we can't have any expectations this year"

BossChief
07-31-2011, 12:56 AM
This year SHOULD make, or break, the long term future of Cassel as the starting quarterback of this team.

I bet if you look at all those teams that didn't sustain their success, it all boiled down to how the teams quarterback played.

We have done enough to upgrade the weapons around Cassel for him to be able to have a elite statistical year that leads to a lot of wins against good teams.

End of story.

BigRock
07-31-2011, 12:58 AM
anyone else embarrassed by this PR surrender?

Who surrendered exactly? Sam Mellinger?

Dave Lane
07-31-2011, 12:59 AM
The still unwritten part of the season is the OL. If it jells we could have something. If it struggles badly so will we. More than Cassel the OL is key this year. Cassel totally sucks with a mad pass rush. If he gets time with these new weapons it could be awesome.

BossChief
07-31-2011, 01:04 AM
The still unwritten part of the season is the OL. If it jells we could have something. If it struggles badly so will we. More than Cassel the OL is key this year. Cassel totally sucks with a mad pass rush. If he gets time with these new weapons it could be awesome.

Setting up another round of excuses for next year already?

Fuck that.

Step the fuck up again (thins time against better opponents) or GTFO.

Its not time to have another feel good story, its time for him to become the guy we NEED or for us to start "the process" of moving on.

If Cassel has a good year, we will play in the playoffs. If he doesnt, we wont.

Adding Baldwin and Breaston to an offense that already has two of the leagues best playmakers should help him elevate his game into the conversation of the better quarterbacks in the league.

Its as simple as that.

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:04 AM
If Cassel continues his improvement and plays consistently like his supporters think he can do, then we'll win the division.

I don't want to hear shit about "Cassel's been getting better, but the team's just not there yet." Really? So if we filled the holes on the team we'd win, right? That would include some better offensive tackles and depth at safety, ILB, and TE. Those added players at those positions would turn us into all-stars? Bull. Fucking. Shit.

If the Chiefs fail it's because they didn't address the biggest fucking hole on the goddamn team. And that's at QUARTERBACK.

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:04 AM
Setting up another round of excuses for next year already?

Fuck that.

Step the fuck up again or GTFO.

Its not time to have another feel good story, its time for him to become the guy we NEED or for us to start "the process" of moving on.

If Cassel has a good year, we will play in the playoffs. If he doesnt, we wont.

Its as simple as that.Or I could have just said "This"

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:05 AM
Who surrendered exactly? Sam Mellinger?

and that pats fan who gives cassel handjobs in the elevator

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:11 AM
I thought about the Chiefs possibly sucking dick this next season and I was reminded for some strange reason of this scene from Star Trek.

"You're incapable of that level of incompetence, Mr. LaForge."

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8J7UV5Rp5bw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's exactly it. We've done such an amazing job of acquiring talent that giving up and saying, "we can't beat these tougher teams" is incompetence. I sure fucking hope Haley never lets the players think this schedule will get the best of them.

Chief Roundup
07-31-2011, 01:16 AM
So we have something to prove. We will have something to prove until we beat teams that are always contenders. Doesn't mean we can't just that we have to prove it. We upgraded in talent and got younger at positions too.
Yes we have a tougher schedule. Yes we have another "new" OC. And so on. So what.
As far as our division goes I think it is between us and the Chargers again. Yeah the Chargers had both the #1 offense and the #1 defense last year. It sure didn't get them to the playoffs. I don't know that the will repeat those feats this year. Losing Rivera will hurt them.
Losing Sproles will hurt them as well. Thier special teams were horrible last year.
The team has to believe that they can beat the tougher teams. The coaches have to believe we can beat the tough teams and that we will win the close tough games.
I think people are using Buffalo is a bad example. They were taking a lot of the better teams to the wire and into OT just to lose by a point or two.

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:24 AM
So we have something to prove. We will have something to prove until we beat teams that are always contenders. Doesn't mean we can't just that we have to prove it. We upgraded in talent and got younger at positions too.
Yes we have a tougher schedule. Yes we have another "new" OC. And so on. So what.
As far as our division goes I think it is between us and the Chargers again. Yeah the Chargers had both the #1 offense and the #1 defense last year. It sure didn't get them to the playoffs. I don't know that the will repeat those feats this year. Losing Rivera will hurt them.
Losing Sproles will hurt them as well. Thier special teams were horrible last year.
The team has to believe that they can beat the tougher teams. The coaches have to believe we can beat the tough teams and that we will win the close tough games.
I think people are using Buffalo is a bad example. They were taking a lot of the better teams to the wire and into OT just to lose by a point or two.That's what gets me about the "tough schedule" bullshit.

You don't like your non-conference or the first place teams you have to face? Fine. Then win more than 2 fucking games in your goddamn division.

dirtbag
07-31-2011, 02:02 AM
"Cassel is awesome....but we're going to suck this year"

"Pioli is a genious...but we're going to suck this year

"we're a good team...but we can't have any expectations this year"



You are such a bitch. ROR wanna be. He is a little bitch too.

Dave Lane
07-31-2011, 02:18 AM
I'm not attempting to make any excuses for Cassel. He's already proved he can be effective when he has time. I'm not worried about him, hes going to be fine if we don't have the OL fall apart like it did last late season. Croyle almost died and Cassel was completely in a shell after the line vaporized. It was weird, like Weis paid them to be bad or something.

Setting up another round of excuses for next year already?

**** that.

Step the **** up again (thins time against better opponents) or GTFO.

Its not time to have another feel good story, its time for him to become the guy we NEED or for us to start "the process" of moving on.

If Cassel has a good year, we will play in the playoffs. If he doesnt, we wont.

Adding Baldwin and Breaston to an offense that already has two of the leagues best playmakers should help him elevate his game into the conversation of the better quarterbacks in the league.

Its as simple as that.

BossChief
07-31-2011, 02:28 AM
I'm not attempting to make any excuses for Cassel. He's already proved he can be effective when he has time. I'm not worried about him, hes going to be fine if we don't have the OL fall apart like it did last late season. Croyle almost died and Cassel was completely in a shell after the line vaporized. It was weird, like Weis paid them to be bad or something.

This line is better than most.

Its surely good enough for it not to be a major problem in Cassels development.

can it be upgraded?

yes, and IMO it should be.

Should Cassel NEED it to be for him to take the next step in his individual development?

no way

Get the fucking ball the the playmakers that are literally EVERYWHERE and teams will not blitz him and cause added pressure to the OL.

BossChief
07-31-2011, 02:30 AM
You are such a bitch. ROR wanna be. He is a little bitch too.

haha

a guy that has been posting here since 2001 is a wannabe of a guy that has been here for like 7 fewer years?

your name obviously says it all

craneref
07-31-2011, 03:26 AM
I love how the media loves to point out the games that we could have lost, but how about the games we could have won, should have beat the Texans, however our defense disappeared and we suddenly couldn't move the ball. In game one against the Raiders we were a missed sack and a highlight film reception on 4th down by the Raiders from winning that game. Bowe drops a game in INdy against the Colts for a sure TD that would have given the Chiefs the lead and definitely changed the end of the game. We could play "what ifs" and "weak schedule" all day long, but in the end it comes down to playing the games. The Chiefs won 10 games last eyar in the NFL, every team was professional. Did we get lucky, sure we did, just like the Packers did to squeak into the playoffs before winning the Superbowl and being declared the next "Dynasty". Did we have some bad luck, of course, just like the Bills did when they were by far the best losing team in the league. The Chiefs won enough games to make th eplayoffs, and played nearly 3 quarters of great football against the Ravens. Everyone calls it a blow out, but how many opportunities did the Chiefs give the Ravens chances to blow the game out early, yet the Chiefs held the Ravens to FG's! If theis years team believe in themselves and good things happen from hard work and preparation, then they will win at least 10 games! Until someone else wins it, The CHIEFS are still the reigning AFC West Champs!! Enough Said!!

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 04:13 AM
You are such a bitch. ROR wanna be. He is a little bitch too.

hi mult

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 04:15 AM
Chiefs: "We're not as good as them"

Huffman83
07-31-2011, 04:27 AM
There isn't a game on the Chiefs schedule that I don't think they couldn't win. I see how much harder the schedule is this year. But I don't expect KC to go undefeated. I don't see their "easy." games to be easy and I don't see their "hard" games to be hopeless.

KC still won more games, and other teams in the division lost to some of those teams that KC beat. There's also nothing better than being the under dog. I hope Chiefs players/coaches read this and keep a copy of it all year. Nothing is more motivating than being told "you're just not good enough." and wanting to prove them wrong.

TimeForWasp
07-31-2011, 04:56 AM
I'm thinking the chiefs might have an advantage at the beginning of the season because offenses across the league will not be fully prepared and us being a running team just may give us a head start, and that may give us a shot in the arm.

milkman
07-31-2011, 05:20 AM
This line is better than most.

Its surely good enough for it not to be a major problem in Cassels development.

can it be upgraded?

yes, and IMO it should be.

Should Cassel NEED it to be for him to take the next step in his individual development?

no way

Get the ****ing ball the the playmakers that are literally EVERYWHERE and teams will not blitz him and cause added pressure to the OL.

The O-Line needs to improve at both tackle spots and center.

I expect that it will improve at RG, but even a declining Waters was better than Lilja will be at LG, even though Lilja is good enough.

That being said, QBs make plays with pourus O-Line's in front of them all the time (see Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers), and some O-Lines get credit for being better than they are because their QBs make them look better (see Tom Brady and Peyton Manning).

If Cassel wants to take that next step, he has to do one or the other of those two.

This team will be better, but the record may not reflect it unless Cassel takes that next step.

If he doesn't it's time to find a real QB.

Bi_polar
07-31-2011, 05:31 AM
OP linky nailed it, unfortunately

Bi_polar
07-31-2011, 05:33 AM
The O-Line needs to improve at both tackle spots and center.

I expect that it will improve at RG, but even a declining Waters was better than Lilja will be at LG, even though Lilja is good enough.

That being said, QBs make plays with pourus O-Line's in front of them all the time (see Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers), and some O-Lines get credit for being better than they are because their QBs make them look better (see Tom Brady and Peyton Manning).

If Cassel wants to take that next step, he has to do one or the other of those two.

This team will be better, but the record may not reflect it unless Cassel takes that next step.

If he doesn't it's time to find a real QB.

That's a great post, actually.

Okie_Apparition
07-31-2011, 06:41 AM
JJ Wentworth is right, it's my hotdog & I'll eat how I like. Look I put ketchup on it because I'm a man who can think for his self & because I can. Dancing monkeys

Dave Lane
07-31-2011, 06:59 AM
The O-Line needs to improve at both tackle spots and center.

I expect that it will improve at RG, but even a declining Waters was better than Lilja will be at LG, even though Lilja is good enough.

That being said, QBs make plays with pourus O-Line's in front of them all the time (see Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers), and some O-Lines get credit for being better than they are because their QBs make them look better (see Tom Brady and Peyton Manning).

If Cassel wants to take that next step, he has to do one or the other of those two.

This team will be better, but the record may not reflect it unless Cassel takes that next step.

If he doesn't it's time to find a real QB.

Is Cassel of the mid portion of 2010 schedule good enough for you or is it Manning or bust? IF he takes another small step forward is that good enough if he's still not elite or do we toss him back and try our luck again?

milkman
07-31-2011, 07:10 AM
Is Cassel of the mid portion of 2010 schedule good enough for you or is it Manning or bust? IF he takes another small step forward is that good enough if he's still not elite or do we toss him back and try our luck again?

For Cassel to take that next step, he has to improve his consistency on his mechanics, and he has to go through his progressions and make his reads quicker.

A more apt comparison would be a poor man's Drew Brees.

michaelj_58
07-31-2011, 07:29 AM
get some more line help on both side,s, NOVEMBER will tell the story!!!!

FringeNC
07-31-2011, 07:29 AM
Why is this article even controversial? We'll be a better team than last year, but it won't show up in our record because we face a real schedule this year.

tmax63
07-31-2011, 07:32 AM
Has everyone here decided that BA is a complete bust? I see the Chiefs line as solid, Albert is young and should still be improving, Lilja is back where he's comfortable, JA should step in solid and improve. CW has someone behind him to train and fill in when he wears out later in the year. RT is still a wild card in my book. With Breston and the rookie coming into the receivers and a yr of experience for TM it's gonna be hard to stack the box to stop JC and not have somebody open. My worry at this point is getting the guys on D signed long term and maybe adding a player or 2 on that side. That and they still have zero depth but this issue was expected since the Chiefs were so low talent-wise when Pioli got here that you can't fix that in a couple of years.

milkman
07-31-2011, 07:52 AM
Has everyone here decided that BA is a complete bust? I see the Chiefs line as solid, Albert is young and should still be improving, Lilja is back where he's comfortable, JA should step in solid and improve. CW has someone behind him to train and fill in when he wears out later in the year. RT is still a wild card in my book. With Breston and the rookie coming into the receivers and a yr of experience for TM it's gonna be hard to stack the box to stop JC and not have somebody open. My worry at this point is getting the guys on D signed long term and maybe adding a player or 2 on that side. That and they still have zero depth but this issue was expected since the Chiefs were so low talent-wise when Pioli got here that you can't fix that in a couple of years.

I can't speak for everyone, but when I say that the tackle play has to improve, I'm suggesting that Albert has to improve, and that we very likely need to get some competition for Richardson at RT.

Albert did not show any improvement last year from the previous year, and he has to get better.

Richardson improved, but he was highly inconsistent, and he either needs to be replaced, or at the very least, needs to know that his job is in jeaopardy and take another step himself.

Priest31kc
07-31-2011, 07:54 AM
This article just pissed me off while reading it. Mellinger sucks. If we dont win the division this year, its on Cassel. Seriously, we have talent EVERYWHERE. Charles, Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki, McCluster w/ Albert, Asamoah, Lilja, Hudson (soon) on the line. Hali, Berry, Dorsey, DJ, Flowers, Carr, Lewis, Arenas, Brown, Houston, Jackson (still has potential), Gilberry, Bailey, Powe......

Yes, we need to improve a few positions (NT, ILB, RT)...But no team has elite studs at every position. Our young guys will have another year of experience and to improve.....Its on the QB. That's how it is in this league. Put Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Rodgers, etc....on this team, and we're one of the favorites to win the AFC.

chiefzilla1501
07-31-2011, 08:02 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but when I say that the tackle play has to improve, I'm suggesting that Albert has to improve, and that we very likely need to get some competition for Richardson at RT.

Albert did not show any improvement last year from the previous year, and he has to get better.

Richardson improved, but he was highly inconsistent, and he either needs to be replaced, or at the very least, needs to know that his job is in jeaopardy and take another step himself.

From a pass protection standpoint. I thought from a run blocking standpoint, Albert improved quite a bit. Richardson was actually pretty solid in run blocking too, but I don't know that he'll ever have the upside to pass protect at RT.

Pasta Little Brioni
07-31-2011, 08:04 AM
This article is pathetic. Every damn team in the NFL "could' have lost 2 or more extra games last year using his "logic".

The Chiefs have young talent EVERYWHERE on thier roster. We should be excited, not waving the white flag.

The team "could" have also beaten the Colts, Raiders, and Houston all on the road very easily as well. Of course, that part is left out.

J Diddy
07-31-2011, 08:11 AM
Why is this article even controversial? We'll be a better team than last year, but it won't show up in our record because we face a real schedule this year.
It's one of those reads that drips with a "told you we weren't good" so people can't bitch if they shit the bed.

That, and Mellinger blows goats. I have proof.

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 08:16 AM
OP linky nailed it, unfortunately
Wait, did Simply Red's account get raped?

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 08:34 AM
It's too bad Mellinger can't write a negative article without coming off as a pansy.

When Whitlock did it he came off as a bully.

mlyonsd
07-31-2011, 08:34 AM
Well I've been following the Chiefs for over 40 years so I guess I'll stick around for 2 more.

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 08:40 AM
Going with the article's assumption that they drop back in wins (possible although I'm not conceding that in reality; this is just for the sake of argument...) they could still take the division with fewer wins. Although I expect the Chargers to have a better season than they did a year ago.

They could feasibly have a far better season on the field and only win 9 games, or win 10 again. Which could, theoretically at least, win the division. 8 or fewer victories would I think be a disappointment. On the flip side, 11 or more would be a bit of a surprise to me.

They do have what I think are the ingredients for competing with a tougher schedule, namely a strong running game and an ascending defense. Pair that with the additional weapons in the passing game, and I don't think a collapse is a foregone conclusion. Although I do still question how much of a (positive) difference maker Cassel can really be. He doesn't need to be Peyton Manning and carry the team, but he does need to be the kind of game manager who can both not throw games away and come through in the clutch.

Coogs
07-31-2011, 08:45 AM
The Chiefs went from 4-12 in 2009 to 10-6 last year and you may have seen the relevant statistic first discovered by Cold Hard Football Facts this summer. They found 30 teams that improved by five wins or more between 2002 and 2009, and 24 of them won fewer games the season after the improvement. Thirteen of those dropped by at least four wins.

What's the story on the other 6 teams that didn't fall back? Anybody know anything about those?

milkman
07-31-2011, 08:50 AM
From a pass protection standpoint. I thought from a run blocking standpoint, Albert improved quite a bit. Richardson was actually pretty solid in run blocking too, but I don't know that he'll ever have the upside to pass protect at RT.

Richardson is nearly as athletic and nimble as Albert.

Both have the tools to be far better in pass protection than they have been.

The questions is do they have the focus and wotk ethic to improve?

tomahawk kid
07-31-2011, 08:53 AM
Every time someone reads a Mellinger article, God kills a kitten......

The Bad Guy
07-31-2011, 08:55 AM
What I don't get..

If the Chiefs were a mirage winning it last year, what does that make the Chargers, who were supposed to be this big force and sucked?

The Chargers have gotten worse this year. They lost Floyd, Burnett (who is better than Spikes). They lost Ron Rivera and Manusky can't shine his shoes.

This article might honestly be the biggest sack of shit the Star has ever produced.

Chiefs have improved at WR. Secondary will be better because of experience. We lost one of the slowest defenders in the league in Vrabel and added a run stuffing NT.

Fuck the haters.

Deberg_1990
07-31-2011, 09:01 AM
Tell me why i should be scared of the Raiders this year? New HC and they still have uncertain QB situation...Every year the media tells me to fear the Raiders and every year its the same thing....i dont get it?

Dr. Van Halen
07-31-2011, 09:02 AM
This is the NFL. Strength of schedule is determined at the end of the year, not at the beginning.

The Bad Guy
07-31-2011, 09:03 AM
Tell me why i should be scared of the Raiders this year? New HC and they still have uncertain QB situation...Every year the media tells me to fear the Raiders and every year its the same thing....i dont get it?

And they lost their best defensive player.

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 09:05 AM
What I don't get..

If the Chiefs were a mirage winning it last year, what does that make the Chargers, who were supposed to be this big force and sucked?

The Chargers have gotten worse this year. They lost Floyd, Burnett (who is better than Spikes). They lost Ron Rivera and Manusky can't shine his shoes.

This article might honestly be the biggest sack of shit the Star has ever produced.

Chiefs have improved at WR. Secondary will be better because of experience. We lost one of the slowest defenders in the league in Vrabel and added a run stuffing NT.

Fuck the haters.

This times a billion.

San Diego hasn't improved at all this offseason and the talent gap between them and KC has narrowed considerably.

I honestly don't know WTF they were doing releasing Sproles. And they got even thinner at WR.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 09:08 AM
This times a billion.

San Diego hasn't improved at all this offseason and the talent gap between them and KC has narrowed considerably.

I honestly don't know WTF they were doing releasing Sproles. And they got even thinner at WR.

no no no, we can't compete with those guys....those guys have good players...we won't have good players till next year, I'm told



(and the Chargers also lost Rivera, which is huge...no reason at all we can't win this division...none)

milkman
07-31-2011, 09:11 AM
This times a billion.

San Diego hasn't improved at all this offseason and the talent gap between them and KC has narrowed considerably.

I honestly don't know WTF they were doing releasing Sproles. And they got even thinner at WR.

While I agree that the Chargers did nothing to improve, I understand why they released Sproles.

The Saints signed him in an effort to fill the hole that Reggie Bush left, but Sproles play has declined the last two seasons, and I highly doubt he is all that productive for the Saints.

He simply doesn't have that much left in the tank.

While Bush can be viewed as a "bust" given his poistion in the draft, he was a dynamic playmaker, and I think the Saints offense will miss him, especially when Brees is in the pocket and needs that outlet when nothing else is open.

I think Bush's absence from that offense when he missed games due to injury did show in the Saints last year.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 09:12 AM
This line is better than most.
bullshit

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 09:12 AM
Tell me why i should be scared of the Raiders this year? New HC and they still have uncertain QB situation...Every year the media tells me to fear the Raiders and every year its the same thing....i dont get it?

Yeah I'm disappointed with the way the Raiders did nothing to improve their team this offseason. They could have challenged for the division. They lost not only Aso, but Chris Johnson was a good player too and I guess they're losing Huff as well. Doesn't bode well for their secondary.

Wouldn't be shocked if McFadden tries to get out of there.

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 09:14 AM
He simply doesn't have that much left in the tank.


It's not gonna be easy to replace 59 catches out of the backfield

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 09:14 AM
lost gallery too, i think

Demonpenz
07-31-2011, 09:27 AM
Our Qb is average. We still don't have a flat out burner to stretch the field at WR, OL is a question mark, Dline issues. Return is questionable. Idk. Still don't have a bruiser that can pick up first downs at running back

milkman
07-31-2011, 09:30 AM
It's not gonna be easy to replace 59 catches out of the backfield

I didn't say he's not productive still, but he's not that explosive weapon any longer.

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 09:35 AM
What I don't get..

If the Chiefs were a mirage winning it last year, what does that make the Chargers, who were supposed to be this big force and sucked?

The Chargers have gotten worse this year. They lost Floyd, Burnett (who is better than Spikes). They lost Ron Rivera and Manusky can't shine his shoes.With me it has to do with their schedule, compared to ours. I don't think they're necessarily a better team (although I also don't think you can overestimate the value of Rivers) but for as difficult as all our schedules are in the west this year, theirs really lines up favorably, after a difficult start:

Minnesota at home then at New England. Home games against us and Miami, then at Denver. Then they have their bye, travel to the Jets and then to Arrowhead, and then host the Packers. That's the first half of the season. Let's say they start slow (they usually do), 1-2. Miami and Denver are both likely wins. 3-2. Jets/KC/GB? Let's say 1-2 again, conservatively. That's 4-4.

Then they host Oakland, travel to the Bears and host Denver. 2-1? Making them 6-5. Then at Jacksonville and then home for Buffalo and Baltimore. 2-1, for 8-6 on the year. The final two games are on the road, at Detroit and at Oakland. Split those and they're 9-7.

So that's my logic with the Chargers. It's not so much how I think they match up with Kansas City directly, it's simply of matter of how I think their schedule may play out. Much like us, I'm thinking they should probably be on the positive side of .500, but I don't expect them to blast out with 12 or 13 wins or something.

So, in that light, I think 9 or 10 wins, if that's all the Chiefs manage, may put them in contention for the division title. I don't expect either Oakland or Denver to top .500, and in fact think Denver may be in play for the #1 pick.

But, honestly, these things rarely play out the way I think they will, which is why I rarely make predictions.

Chief Roundup
07-31-2011, 09:41 AM
Our Qb is average. We still don't have a flat out burner to stretch the field at WR, OL is a question mark, Dline issues. Return is questionable. Idk. Still don't have a bruiser that can pick up first downs at running back

What does it take to be burner. Baldwin from what I read runs a 4.4 40 Breaston is considered to be fast. Our OL is a question mainly because we are putting different guys in a couple of spots and they have to gel and become a unit. Our D-Line has improved by adding Gregg. Returns we still have Arenas and added Breaston. Hopefully we are will be hearing that we added McClain to the backfield to take Jones' spot.

Nzoner
07-31-2011, 09:43 AM
With me it has to do with their schedule, compared to ours. I don't think they're necessarily a better team (although I also don't think you can overestimate the value of Rivers) but for as difficult as all our schedules are in the west this year, theirs really lines up favorably, after a difficult start:

Minnesota at home then at New England. Home games against us and Miami, then at Denver. Then they have their bye, travel to the Jets and then to Arrowhead, and then host the Packers. That's the first half of the season. Let's say they start slow (they usually do), 1-2. Miami and Denver are both likely wins. 3-2. Jets/KC/GB? Let's say 1-2 again, conservatively. That's 4-4.

Then they host Oakland, travel to the Bears and host Denver. 2-1? Making them 6-5. Then at Jacksonville and then home for Buffalo and Baltimore. 2-1, for 8-6 on the year. The final two games are on the road, at Detroit and at Oakland. Split those and they're 9-7.

So that's my logic with the Chargers. It's not so much how I think they match up with Kansas City directly, it's simply of matter of how I think their schedule may play out. Much like us, I'm thinking they should probably be on the positive side of .500, but I don't expect them to blast out with 12 or 13 wins or something.

So, in that light, I think 9 or 10 wins, if that's all the Chiefs manage, may put them in contention for the division title. I don't expect either Oakland or Denver to top .500, and in fact think Denver may be in play for the #1 pick.

But, honestly, these things rarely play out the way I think they will, which is why I rarely make predictions.

I like your logic here,in fact a group of us at the bar yesterday pretty much agreed that it would be no surprise if the AFC West Division winner was 9-7 or even 8-8.

However it turns out it's just great to be talking about a new season again.

RedThat
07-31-2011, 09:48 AM
The still unwritten part of the season is the OL. If it jells we could have something. If it struggles badly so will we. More than Cassel the OL is key this year. Cassel totally sucks with a mad pass rush. If he gets time with these new weapons it could be awesome.

Here is the problem, if the running game falters, chances are so does the passing game. The running game has to set up this offense in good situations where it can have a nice lead to start off the game so the offense can click on all cylinders. Thats the way I see it. Our running game is the engine of the offense. If it is dominant, then all the better because the passing game opens up nicely and Cassel flourishes in those situations.

On the other hand, if the running game is shut down, or we are forced to play catch up, then we are in big trouble. Chiefs aren't a pass happy offense or a come from behind team. First off, our offensive tackles are undisciplined and struggle in pass protection and can't handle good speed rushers coming off the edge. The Chiefs did ZERO to resolve that issue in the off-season. If we are forced to play from behind, I don't have the confidence that we'll be able to catch up and win the game. we don't have the tackles to help us out in those situations, and Cassel seems to crack under pressure.

*I will sum it up in a nutshell. We don't have the OT's to succeed against a good passrush. Cassel cracks under pressure. Cassel isn't the greatest quarterback at making good quick reads. Yes, he does have more options in the passing game with the additions of Breaston and Baldwin, but, if your OT's can't protect you, and your tunnel vision as a QB sucks, it defeats the purpose of having good WR's. And worst of all, he can't throw the deep ball worth a damn. When you add up and combine all these factors, things don't bode so well for the Chiefs. I don't think the Chiefs will be able to stand and persist through the face of adversity for those very reasons.

*Bottomline, what I am trying to get at its, we need probowl tackles for Cassel to flourish. Well, they don't have to be Probowl, but at least very good. QB's that can't make quick reads need to by more time. The only solution, get offesive tackles that are good in pass protection and can handle speed rushers off the edge. We either get rid of Cassel and have a QB that can handle a passrush and make good quick reads, or, keep Cassel and give him two very good tackles. Chiefs did neither.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 09:51 AM
Our Oline and Dline are both still sketchy, against better teams that could be a real problem. I don't see what the big 'WTF' attitude is about SOS hurting our win/loss record.

The Bad Guy
07-31-2011, 09:55 AM
Our Oline and Dline are both still sketchy, against better teams that could be a real problem. I don't see what the big 'WTF' attitude is about SOS hurting our win/loss record.

And I don't see how you can accurately predict a strength of schedule in July.

Red Beans
07-31-2011, 09:55 AM
C'mon Mellinger...

http://i53.tinypic.com/168zodk.jpg

boogblaster
07-31-2011, 10:00 AM
Kinda agree with RedThat ,, we can't play catch-up ball ,, hopefully our FB this year cab read blitz paks are help block for Casshole ....

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 10:01 AM
And I don't see how you can accurately predict a strength of schedule in July.
agreed but all we can do right now is go with what we see on paper.

Hell, maybe all the young players for the Chiefs will explode and make all the old Dolphin players cry by going undefeated and winning a Superbowl.

But ... on paper the Chiefs are not significantly better than last year and their SOS is brutally more difficult. Not hard to see where the predictions and conclusions are coming from right now. :shrug:

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 10:08 AM
But ... on paper the Chiefs are not significantly better than last yearI would say that's arguable, for the simple fact that 2nd, 3rd year and 4th year players generally perform at a higher level than they did the year prior. And the key players that have been acquired so far, all two of them (Breaston and Gregg), are significant improvements over the players they replace (27 random waiver-wire receivers and Ron Edwards).

Just my opinion, of course, but I think they probably are a better team. On paper at least.and their SOS is brutally more difficult.I would say that's not arguable.

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 10:13 AM
THE 2011 KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: DOWN WITH MELLINGER

RedThat
07-31-2011, 10:14 AM
agreed but all we can do right now is go with what we see on paper.

Hell, maybe all the young players for the Chiefs will explode and make all the old Dolphin players cry by going undefeated and winning a Superbowl.

But ... on paper the Chiefs are not significantly better than last year and their SOS is brutally more difficult. Not hard to see where the predictions and conclusions are coming from right now. :shrug:

If we go by paper, the position where I see significant improvement is WR. We are pretty deep there now.

*Aside from that, we need players to step up at key positions. I'd like to see improvements from Belcher, TJack. I hope Asamoah and Hudson can take over during the season and become better players than Wiegman and Waters. Albert and Richardson NEED to be a whole lot better. And most importantly, Cassel has to show why Pioli got him to be our QB in the first place.

bobbything
07-31-2011, 10:15 AM
I. F*cking. Hate people that say, "Well, if they woulda not missed an easy field goal," or, "If we could have done this different," or, "If this and that bla bla bla.". It's all if's and but's. The reality is that none of these things happened. Those arguments are for losers. And people that try and rationalize a winning season away by pointing out the things that COULD HAVE happened are just as big of losers as those that try and rationalize a losing season the same way.

You know what, the 2005 Chiefs should have been 13-3. They were up 17-0, at home against the Eagles, and lost. They had multiple opportunities to beat Dallas and completely sh*t the bed. They threw a pick 6 against Carolina inside the 5 yard line when up 6-0. But you know what? They lost those games and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs.

Just. F*cking. Win.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 10:26 AM
I would say that's arguable, for the simple fact that 2nd, 3rd year and 4th year players generally perform at a higher level than they did the year prior. And the key players that have been acquired so far, all two of them (Breaston and Gregg), are significant improvements over the players they replace (27 random waiver-wire receivers and Ron Edwards).

Just my opinion, of course, but I think they probably are a better team. On paper at least.I would say that's not arguable.
Looks like that is what Pioli is counting on

So our dline should be dominant because i project that, in his 3rd year, Tyson Jackson will play like Reggie White. w00t!!!!

I like how that works :)

Albert = Orlando Pace
Jackson = reggie white
Moeaki = Tony G
Asomoah = Larry Allen
kendrick Lewis = Ed Reed
McCluster = Barry Saunders


Undefeated season ... Super Bowl, Bitches!!!!

gblowfish
07-31-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm expecting around 8-8 this year, since we're playing a first place schedule. San Diego will be the favorite in our division, I think.

TEX
07-31-2011, 10:43 AM
I. F*cking. Hate people that say, "Well, if they woulda not missed an easy field goal," or, "If we could have done this different," or, "If this and that bla bla bla.". It's all if's and but's. The reality is that none of these things happened. Those arguments are for losers. And people that try and rationalize a winning season away by pointing out the things that COULD HAVE happened are just as big of losers as those that try and rationalize a losing season the same way.

You know what, the 2005 Chiefs should have been 13-3. They were up 17-0, at home against the Eagles, and lost. They had multiple opportunities to beat Dallas and completely sh*t the bed. They threw a pick 6 against Carolina inside the 5 yard line when up 6-0. But you know what? They lost those games and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs.

Just. F*cking. Win.

Exactly - the Chiefs could have beaten the Colts, Texans, and Raiders on the road but came up a play short. So - throughout the course of the season you win some you could have lost and lose some that you could have won. They finished where they should have. This year will likely produce similar scenario's.

As for my prediction on their final record, I'll say - 10-6

BossChief
07-31-2011, 11:29 AM
agreed but all we can do right now is go with what we see on paper.

Hell, maybe all the young players for the Chiefs will explode and make all the old Dolphin players cry by going undefeated and winning a Superbowl.

But ... on paper the Chiefs are not significantly better than last year and their SOS is brutally more difficult. Not hard to see where the predictions and conclusions are coming from right now. :shrug:

On paper and in real life, our team is better across the board.

QB - should continue to improve under zorn and with better weapons around him. Stanzi is a better quarterback as a rookie than Croyle was as a 5th year player.

RB - Charles should get more carries with Jones nearing the real end of his career. Adding DMC to the mix will do nothing but make the position group stronger by adding another homerun threat to the equation and a player that the defense has to account for. If we find a way to add McClain to this group, we will have the best group of backs in the league.

WR - I shouldnt evn need to state how much better we are here. Its obvious to anyone with a set of eyes.

TE - Moeaki now knows what it takes to excel and what he needed to work on to improve his game. The kid will keep getting better and better as he eliminates his weaknesses and improves his strength.

OL - Going from a declining Waters to a prime Lilja is a wash, but going from Lilja at RG to Asamoah is a big upgrade and Going form a late season Weigmann to a fresh Hudson should be a big upgrade once he gets on the field.

DL - While losing Smith will hurt, I see Jackson having a breakout year where he starts to play consistently how he did in the opener last year prior to the injury... and Dorsey will continue to ascend. Bailey and Gilberry offer premium rotational/role players. Going from Edwards and Toribino to Kelly Gregg and Powe is HUGE in terms of on field improvement.

LB - If Houston finds a way to get on the field and put his issues aside, he and Studebaker will offer us as big of an upgrade as nearly any in the NFL. Vrabel was totally done from the get go last year...from a physical standpoint. Belcher is a beast in the making and will absolutely BLOW THE FUCK UP behind a real nose guard like Gregg...so will DJ. These guys will be free to roam and make plays on the ball a shit ton more this year without having to fight through traffic to do so.

CBs - Flowers should be healthy and right there is a huge upgrade over what we saw the second half of last year (and that was pretty good) Carr turned a corner at the midway point last year and learned to get his head turned and locate the ball...the next step is improving his ball skills, I expect his interceptions to be at around 6 this year and for his to be one of the league leaders in passes defended.

S - Berry has a whole season of tape to review of himself to find what he did wrong in the times he got beat and I doubt highly that he gets beat half as many times as last year. I FULLY expect him to rise to the absolute top of the list of NFL safeties this year and for the next decade. 7 interceptions is realistic while being a dominating run defender. Kid will simply not allow teams to break big plays against us. Lewis should be improved due to experience.

How the fuck arent we improved, again?

milkman
07-31-2011, 11:34 AM
Nice post Boss, but there are too many "shoulds" there.

TyJack may improve.
He may not.

Hudson could be the answer.
He may not.

Belcher should improve.
He might not.

Those are just a couple to start.

I also have little to no expectation from McNugget.
I'd be surprised to see him get through the season healthy.

KCrockaholic
07-31-2011, 11:37 AM
I agree with just about all of what BossChief said. I've been telling people for a while now to avoid being discouraged if the Chiefs finish 8-8 or so this year. "Make no mistake about it, this is a damn good team that is on the rise."

Either that, or all this talent rises to the occasion and we finish with a record like 11-5 or 10-6 again and if we did that, we could consider ourselves an elite team.

notorious
07-31-2011, 11:52 AM
The Chiefs will be just fine.


They are going to surprise people. This will be the year that fans and haters alike sit back and say "Wow, that is a really good team."

Easy 6
07-31-2011, 12:00 PM
Mellinger - Hitler destined to control Europe & Africa... dont fight it.

Bill Brasky
07-31-2011, 12:04 PM
I. F*cking. Hate people that say, "Well, if they woulda not missed an easy field goal," or, "If we could have done this different," or, "If this and that bla bla bla.". It's all if's and but's. The reality is that none of these things happened. Those arguments are for losers. And people that try and rationalize a winning season away by pointing out the things that COULD HAVE happened are just as big of losers as those that try and rationalize a losing season the same way.

You know what, the 2005 Chiefs should have been 13-3. They were up 17-0, at home against the Eagles, and lost. They had multiple opportunities to beat Dallas and completely sh*t the bed. They threw a pick 6 against Carolina inside the 5 yard line when up 6-0. But you know what? They lost those games and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs.

Just. F*cking. Win.

It's just lazy writing. Shit writers do it for literally every sport on the planet because it's really, really easy. Finding facts and forming opinions about them requires research and time. Instead, a guy like Mellinger can shit this article out in a couple hours *tops* and jerk off the rest of the day.

It pisses me off because he completely ignores the fact the Pioli is building this team through the draft. No fucking shit it takes time. It really doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that it's faster and more expensive to build with free agents, and we've chosen not to go that route.

BWillie
07-31-2011, 12:06 PM
I would not be surprised if the Chiefs go 7-9 this year, but even if they were actually a 7-9 team last year, and went 10-6 because of the schedule. Maybe they progress into a legitimate 10-6 this year because of their developing youth. Teams do get better, and end up having the same or worse record.

ChiefsCountry
07-31-2011, 12:08 PM
10-6, lose in the first round of the playoffs again.

Ming the Merciless
07-31-2011, 12:09 PM
Anyone who measures progress solely by # of wins from year to year is simple minded......the fact is, we COULD win less than 10 games and still be a much improved team. Thats fine with me.

KCrockaholic
07-31-2011, 12:12 PM
Anyone who measures progress solely by # of wins from year to year is simple minded......the fact is, we COULD win less than 10 games and still be a much improved team. Thats fine with me.

Sadly, that's how the average fans mind works.

Ming the Merciless
07-31-2011, 12:14 PM
Sadly, that's how the average fans mind works.

Yep, sadly the average moron thinks if we go 9-7 in 2011, then our team must be worse....

Most people have a short term view on things......If we are trying to win a lombardy trophy, 9-7 or 10-6 wont matter in the long run.

edit: re-reading it i guess we're in agreement!

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:15 PM
KC Chiefs: "We're not good, we're 'good'..."

RedThat
07-31-2011, 12:17 PM
KC Chiefs: "We're not good, we're 'good'..."

"we're good it's just that we had a tough schedule." lol

Ming the Merciless
07-31-2011, 12:18 PM
"theres no gray area or middle ground, if we dont win the superbowl, we SUCK" lol

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:19 PM
"theres no gray area or middle ground, if we dont win the superbowl, we SUCK" lol

who in this thread has actually said that?


because you sound pretty retarded

BossChief
07-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Anyone who measures progress solely by # of wins from year to year is simple minded......the fact is, we COULD win less than 10 games and still be a much improved team. Thats fine with me.

I bet you loved it when the skit of "Lowered expectations" came on MadTV.

"Im probably good enough to land HER" /pawn

OnTheWarpath15
07-31-2011, 12:22 PM
Nice post Boss, but there are too many "shoulds" there.

TyJack may improve.
He may not.

Hudson could be the answer.
He may not.

Belcher should improve.
He might not.

Those are just a couple to start.

I also have little to no expectation from McNugget.
I'd be surprised to see him get through the season healthy.

Yep. A LOT of "ifs" and "shoulds."

milkman
07-31-2011, 12:23 PM
"theres no gray area or middle ground, if we dont win the superbowl, we SUCK" lol

If this team, under this tenure, fails to advance to and win a SB at some point, they will have sucked.

Success is measured in eras.

Marty had a lot success in the regular season, but ultimately, he failed.

Same can be said of Carl, to a lesser extent.

The Chiefs can improve this year without matching last season's record, and that will be a successful season.

But in the end, success or failure wll be measure by long term accomplishments.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:27 PM
Yep. A LOT of "ifs" and "shoulds."

every team has ifs....that's the point of having stars, to overcome your questions


and we have stars on both sides of the ball...it is also the QB's job to overcome 'ifs'....we have a Vet probowl QB...a smart coach, a top DC...


so, yeah....either we area good team, or we're a 'good' team...frankly i'm tired of the excuses saying we can't beat actual good teams because we're just a 'good' team

i think we're a good team...

milkman
07-31-2011, 12:28 PM
every team has ifs....that's the point of having stars, to overcome your questions


and we have stars on both sides of the ball...it is also the QB's job to overcome 'ifs'....we have a Vet probowl QB...a smart coach, a top DC...


so, yeah....either we area good team, or we're a 'good' team...frankly i'm tired of the excuses saying we can't beat actual good teams because we're just a 'good' team

i think we're a good team...

It's all good.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 12:30 PM
let's be clear

not winning the division would be a failure...period


that should be the expectation for the coaches and players

BossChief
07-31-2011, 12:30 PM
TTC is kicking the shit out of this thread

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 12:34 PM
On paper and in real life, our team is better across the board.

QB - should continue to improve under zorn and with better weapons around him. Stanzi is a better quarterback as a rookie than Croyle was as a 5th year player.

RB - Charles should get more carries with Jones nearing the real end of his career. Adding DMC to the mix will do nothing but make the position group stronger by adding another homerun threat to the equation and a player that the defense has to account for. If we find a way to add McClain to this group, we will have the best group of backs in the league.

WR - I shouldnt evn need to state how much better we are here. Its obvious to anyone with a set of eyes.

TE - Moeaki now knows what it takes to excel and what he needed to work on to improve his game. The kid will keep getting better and better as he eliminates his weaknesses and improves his strength.

OL - Going from a declining Waters to a prime Lilja is a wash, but going from Lilja at RG to Asamoah is a big upgrade and Going form a late season Weigmann to a fresh Hudson should be a big upgrade once he gets on the field.

DL - While losing Smith will hurt, I see Jackson having a breakout year where he starts to play consistently how he did in the opener last year prior to the injury... and Dorsey will continue to ascend. Bailey and Gilberry offer premium rotational/role players. Going from Edwards and Toribino to Kelly Gregg and Powe is HUGE in terms of on field improvement.

LB - If Houston finds a way to get on the field and put his issues aside, he and Studebaker will offer us as big of an upgrade as nearly any in the NFL. Vrabel was totally done from the get go last year...from a physical standpoint. Belcher is a beast in the making and will absolutely BLOW THE FUCK UP behind a real nose guard like Gregg...so will DJ. These guys will be free to roam and make plays on the ball a shit ton more this year without having to fight through traffic to do so.

CBs - Flowers should be healthy and right there is a huge upgrade over what we saw the second half of last year (and that was pretty good) Carr turned a corner at the midway point last year and learned to get his head turned and locate the ball...the next step is improving his ball skills, I expect his interceptions to be at around 6 this year and for his to be one of the league leaders in passes defended.

S - Berry has a whole season of tape to review of himself to find what he did wrong in the times he got beat and I doubt highly that he gets beat half as many times as last year. I FULLY expect him to rise to the absolute top of the list of NFL safeties this year and for the next decade. 7 interceptions is realistic while being a dominating run defender. Kid will simply not allow teams to break big plays against us. Lewis should be improved due to experience.

How the fuck arent we improved, again?Should,Could,If,Probably

You EXPECT the young players to improve therefore we are better. AS I SAID maybe they will. But how many young players in the past have we had that didn't end up improving like they SHOULD? If all the young players improved like they should then Marty would of won a Superbowl.

Hey ... enjoy your kool-aid, i hope you're correct.

RedThat
07-31-2011, 12:34 PM
You know what?

#1. We are better than Denver

#2. We are better than Oakland

*last but not least, the worst I can possibly see is us being second best in the AFC West. you win the division, you're good to get into the playoffs. We did this last year. I think, we have just as much talent as SD. the major thing that seperates them from us, is that they are better at the QB position.

OnTheWarpath15
07-31-2011, 12:37 PM
let's be clear

not winning the division would be a failure...period


that should be the expectation for the coaches and players

I agree.

I also think this team has a lot going for it long-term.

But by being inactive in FA, we're asking a lot of players that have never played a down, or have barely played at this level. Or that are just average players.

Guys like Richardson, Belcher, Studebaker, TJack - they should all be competing for their jobs. They've proven nothing, and we're all magically hoping they get much, much better.

No doubt this team is going to get better long term. Absolutely no doubt.

But only adding a slot WR and swapping out old, average NT's doesn't automatically make this team better in 2011.

Hopefully Pioli wakes from his nap and picks up some competition/depth before what few warm bodies that are out there are snatched up.

Nzoner
07-31-2011, 12:40 PM
I'm expecting around 8-8 this year, since we're playing a first place schedule. San Diego will be the favorite in our division, I think.

I'll be in vegas week 1 and have already decided if the over/under on wins is 8 1/2 or more I'm going with the under.It's one bet I won't mind losing should the Chiefs end up winning 9 or more.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 12:45 PM
every team has ifs....
yes, but those 'ifs' are relative

Eric Berry SHOULD improve ....

Tyson Jackson SHOULD improve ...


There is a fucking mile of difference in those two ifs. Imo if you have a player that has really shown signs then fine but to expect impact improvement from a player 'just because' is more hope than evaluation.

expecting anything from Powe this year is hope (and remember i'm a guy that wanting him in the draft).

expecting Gregg to turn back the clock is hope, although it could happen.

i'm not saying we are going to suck but imo you can't assume drastic improvement from most players.

Our offensive/Defensive lines are still sketchy imo.

BossChief
07-31-2011, 12:46 PM
Should,Could,If,Probably

You EXPECT the young players to improve therefore we are better. AS I SAID maybe they will. But how many young players in the past have we had the didn't end up improving like they SHOULD? If all the young players improve then Marty would of won a Superbowl.

Hey ... enjoy your kool-aid, i hope you're correct.

I see a lot of the "should, could and ifs" coming to fruition because of our premium coaching staff.

I think thats more "realistic" than "homeristic"

FFS look at all of our talent that started actually fulfilling their potential as soon as we brought in these guys...

I almost always look at the glass half full though, if thats what makes me a homer by nature...so be it.

Gimme a glass of that kool aid!!!

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 12:47 PM
let's be clear

not winning the division would be a failure...period


that should be the expectation for the coaches and players
It should be the expectations for the coaches/players every year but San diego is and should be the favorite.

BigMeatballDave
07-31-2011, 12:47 PM
let's be clear

not winning the division would be a failure...period


that should be the expectation for the coaches and playersWhat if we win the division with an 8-8 record? :)

OnTheWarpath15
07-31-2011, 12:48 PM
yes, but those 'ifs' are relative

Eric Berry SHOULD improve ....

Tyson Jackson SHOULD improve ...


There is a fucking mile of difference in those two ifs. Imo if you have a player has really shown sign then fine but to expect impact improvement from a player 'just because' is more hope than evaluation.

expecting anything from Powe this year is hope (and remember i'm a guy that wanting him in the draft).

expecting Gregg to turn back the clock is hope, although it could happen.

i'm not saying we are going to suck but imo you can't assume drastic improvement from most players.

Our offensive/Defensive lines are still sketchy imo.

Good post, Laz.

RedThat
07-31-2011, 12:50 PM
I agree.

I also think this team has a lot going for it long-term.

But by being inactive in FA, we're asking a lot of players that have never played a down, or have barely played at this level. Or that are just average players.

Guys like Richardson, Belcher, Studebaker, TJack - they should all be competing for their jobs. They've proven nothing, and we're all magically hoping they get much, much better.

No doubt this team is going to get better long term. Absolutely no doubt.

But only adding a slot WR and swapping out old, average NT's doesn't automatically make this team better in 2011.

Hopefully Pioli wakes from his nap and picks up some competition/depth before what few warm bodies that are out there are snatched up.

Even though they didn't do much in FA, the draft still makes me look forward Chiefs football.

I still think TJack, and Studebaker have guys behind them that'll push them. Im referring to guys like Gilberry, Bailey, and Houston. It'll be interesting to see how Belcher plays this year with a guy like Gregg in front of him.

They may not be light years better than last year, but i still think we will see positional battles going on, and improvements from certain players.

Titty Meat
07-31-2011, 01:19 PM
This fucking offense should be unstoppable and I don't give a fuck if Matt Cassel is QB or not we had the 14th best offense last year with remarkable improvements this year no reason this shouldn't be a top 10 offense. Even if the defense is in the 15-20 range we still should compete.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 01:22 PM
This fucking offense should be unstoppable and I don't give a fuck if Matt Cassel is QB or not we had the 14th best offense last year with remarkable improvements this year no reason this shouldn't be a top 10 offense. Even if the defense is in the 15-20 range we still should compete.
if our OT's can't hold the edge then our offense will still be limited when it comes to facing a strong defense.

RedThat
07-31-2011, 01:23 PM
This ****ing offense should be unstoppable and I don't give a **** if Matt Cassel is QB or not we had the 14th best offense last year with remarkable improvements this year no reason this shouldn't be a top 10 offense. Even if the defense is in the 15-20 range we still should compete.

I fail to see it. The OL is suspect. I can't see how this offense would be ranked in the top 10 with OT's that are absolute balls in protection.

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:29 PM
agreed but all we can do right now is go with what we see on paper.

Hell, maybe all the young players for the Chiefs will explode and make all the old Dolphin players cry by going undefeated and winning a Superbowl.

But ... on paper the Chiefs are not significantly better than last year and their SOS is brutally more difficult. Not hard to see where the predictions and conclusions are coming from right now. :shrug:....explain? :spock:

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 01:30 PM
It should be the expectations for the coaches/players every year but San diego is and should be the favorite.Based on what? Reputation? "If"s? "Should"s?

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:35 PM
I agree.

I also think this team has a lot going for it long-term.

But by being inactive in FA, we're asking a lot of players that have never played a down, or have barely played at this level. Or that are just average players.

Guys like Richardson, Belcher, Studebaker, TJack - they should all be competing for their jobs. They've proven nothing, and we're all magically hoping they get much, much better.

No doubt this team is going to get better long term. Absolutely no doubt.

But only adding a slot WR and swapping out old, average NT's doesn't automatically make this team better in 2011.

Hopefully Pioli wakes from his nap and picks up some competition/depth before what few warm bodies that are out there are snatched up.


this team is good enough...if it wasn't, Pioli would have acquired more pieces

his decisions mean that he believes we can win with what we have...

people can bitch about the OL or DL...but according to Pioli and Haley, what we have is good enough...don't like it, take it up with them (not you, just anyone saying we have excuses built in based on our roster)

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:37 PM
yes, but those 'ifs' are relative

Eric Berry SHOULD improve ....

Tyson Jackson SHOULD improve ...


There is a ****ing mile of difference in those two ifs. Imo if you have a player that has really shown signs then fine but to expect impact improvement from a player 'just because' is more hope than evaluation.

expecting anything from Powe this year is hope (and remember i'm a guy that wanting him in the draft).

expecting Gregg to turn back the clock is hope, although it could happen.

i'm not saying we are going to suck but imo you can't assume drastic improvement from most players.

Our offensive/Defensive lines are still sketchy imo.


our roster is good enough for Pioli, so it's good enough for me


and frankly this team has experienced playmakers at all the key positions...Bowe, Charles, Hali, Flowers, Dorsey, Berry....and throw in Cassel because he is a probowler...

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:38 PM
What if we win the division with an 8-8 record? :)

fine by me

kcchiefsus
07-31-2011, 01:39 PM
this team is good enough...if it wasn't, Pioli would have acquired more pieces

his decisions mean that he believes we can win with what we have...

people can bitch about the OL or DL...but according to Pioli and Haley, what we have is good enough...don't like it, take it up with them (not you, just anyone saying we have excuses built in based on our roster)

Why should we be happy with just being "good enough"? It seems like teams like the Jets and Eagles don't want to just be "good enough", they want to acquire enough talent to dominate the competition.

That should be our goal. We should aspire to beat every team 45-0 every week. I realize that is not a realistic goal, but it is a goal nonetheless every team should aspire to.

I very seriously doubt they think our OL and DL are good enough. Anybody who watched our final two games knows that are not good enough. If Pioli actually thought they were good enough then he would easily be the biggest dumbass on the planet.

Hammock Parties
07-31-2011, 01:39 PM
Sam Mellinger looks like a defeatist pussy for sure....

http://www.ongo.com/31/2011/05/04/865784/thumb_00491bc515a7bfe2ab014f4294b999e99.jpg

kcchiefsus
07-31-2011, 01:41 PM
our roster is good enough for Pioli, so it's good enough for me


and frankly this team has experienced playmakers at all the key positions...Bowe, Charles, Hali, Flowers, Dorsey, Berry....and throw in Cassel because he is a probowler...

Then I guess missing the playoffs and continuing with our long history of mediocrity is "good enough" for you.

Funny how of all the names you threw out, only one is a lineman. That's where our problem is. We have the skill positions to be a super bowl team. We don't have the offensive and defensive lines. And, as usual, we continue to ignore our largest problems that for the most part Pioli has ignored for three years straight now.

BIG_DADDY
07-31-2011, 01:42 PM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but if I recall we are WAY under the salary cap like 30 something million and the rest of the AFC West in not in nearly as good a shape. Don't we have to spend like 99% of that now?

It looks like the only team that knows they have money to spend is the Eagles. I guess that's why they are the Eagles and we are the Chiefs.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:46 PM
Then I guess missing the playoffs and continuing with our long history of mediocrity is "good enough" for you.

Funny how of all the names you threw out, only one is a lineman. That's where our problem is. We have the skill positions to be a super bowl team. We don't have the offensive and defensive lines. And, as usual, we continue to ignore our largest problems that for the most part Pioli has ignored for three years straight now.

huh?

i expect us to win the division....

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:47 PM
Why should we be happy with just being "good enough"? It seems like teams like the Jets and Eagles don't want to just be "good enough", they want to acquire enough talent to dominate the competition.

That should be our goal. We should aspire to beat every team 45-0 every week. I realize that is not a realistic goal, but it is a goal nonetheless every team should aspire to.

I very seriously doubt they think our OL and DL are good enough. Anybody who watched our final two games knows that are not good enough. If Pioli actually thought they were good enough then he would easily be the biggest dumbass on the planet.

so you think that pioli doesn't believe are lines are good enough and is choosing to do nothing about it?


yeah....no

kysirsoze
07-31-2011, 01:50 PM
so you think that pioli doesn't believe are lines are good enough and is choosing to do nothing about it?


yeah....no

Yeah, he thinks we're just fine. Except we have at least one new starter on the O-line and a new anchor for our D. Other than that. Oh and FREE AGENCY ISN'T OVER.

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 01:51 PM
our roster is good enough for Pioli, so it's good enough for me


and frankly this team has experienced playmakers at all the key positions...Bowe, Charles, Hali, Flowers, Dorsey, Berry....and throw in Cassel because he is a probowler...So. I can't decide.

abducted by aliens and replaced with a replicant....

or

abducted by the chiefs and brainwashed

or

satire....

Deberg_1990
07-31-2011, 01:52 PM
Why should we be happy with just being "good enough"? It seems like teams like the Jets and Eagles don't want to just be "good enough", they want to acquire enough talent to dominate the competition.

That should be our goal. We should aspire to beat every team 45-0 every week. I realize that is not a realistic goal, but it is a goal nonetheless every team should aspire to.

I very seriously doubt they think our OL and DL are good enough. Anybody who watched our final two games knows that are not good enough. If Pioli actually thought they were good enough then he would easily be the biggest dumbass on the planet.

When did the jets And eagles last win the super bowl?

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:54 PM
Yeah, he thinks we're just fine. Except we have at least one new starter on the O-line and a new anchor for our D. Other than that. Oh and FREE AGENCY ISN'T OVER.

yes, we all know that...reading comprehension people...i'm not bashing pioli...fuck

kcchiefsus
07-31-2011, 01:55 PM
so you think that pioli doesn't believe are lines are good enough and is choosing to do nothing about it?


yeah....no

Yes.

I think there is alot of truth to this article. Last year was a bit of a fluke. We don't have the horses on the lines to truly be a great team. When your tackles consist of Albert, Richardson, O'Callaghan (spelling?), Mims, and Greenwood you have a problem. There is no debating that. We have no quality or proven depth at guard behind Lilja and Asomoah, who is still a very unproven commodity.

Despite having guys like Allan Bailey and Wallace Gilberry at 3-4 DE, we have absolutely NO depth at the position. Neither one is a 3 down defensive lineman. Both would get dominated in the run game if they had to sub in for an injured starter. Kelly Gregg could play 3-4 DE, but then that would leave us with no depth at NT.

Sure, I hope I'm jumping the gun and we address some of these issues in the coming week. But Pioli's history would say otherwise.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 01:58 PM
Yes.

I think there is alot of truth to this article. Last year was a bit of a fluke. We don't have the horses on the lines to truly be a great team. When your tackles consist of Albert, Richardson, O'Callaghan (spelling?), Mims, and Greenwood you have a problem. There is no debating that. We have no quality or proven depth at guard behind Lilja and Asomoah, who is still a very unproven commodity.

Despite having guys like Allan Bailey and Wallace Gilberry at 3-4 DE, we have absolutely NO depth at the position. Neither one is a 3 down defensive lineman. Both would get dominated in the run game if they had to sub in for an injured starter. Kelly Gregg could play 3-4 DE, but then that would leave us with no depth at NT.

Sure, I hope I'm jumping the gun and we address some of these issues in the coming week. But Pioli's history would say otherwise.


so what would be pioli's motivation for intentionally not addressing this?


why would he do nothing (else) if he didn't think the roster was strong enough?

doesn't make any sense

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 01:58 PM
Then I guess missing the playoffs and continuing with our long history of mediocrity is "good enough" for you.

Funny how of all the names you threw out, only one is a lineman. That's where our problem is. We have the skill positions to be a super bowl team. We don't have the offensive and defensive lines. And, as usual, we continue to ignore our largest problems that for the most part Pioli has ignored for three years straight now.What the hell is wrong with our defensive line? It's pretty good now that Gregg is here.

kcchiefsus
07-31-2011, 02:00 PM
When did the jets And eagles last win the super bowl?

They have gotten a hell of a lot closer than we have.

When you are a franchise that had as bad of a decade as we did in the 2000's and who hasn't won a super bowl since 1970, you would think the team might show a lot more urgency.

The Chiefs aren't a whole lot different than the Royals as far as I'm concerned. Telling us to be patient and to wait on the "process" when we have been doing that for 40+ years is bullshit.

kcchiefsus
07-31-2011, 02:02 PM
What the hell is wrong with our defensive line? It's pretty good now that Gregg is here.

We have no depth. A single injury to a starter would decimate the line. Even with Gregg/Powe at nose tackle we are probably in the lower half of 3-4 defenses if you were to rank each team at nose tackle.

This team is also going to sink or swim with Tyson Jackson at defensive end. If he doesn't live up to his draft status, we are fucked. Allan Bailey and Wallace Gilberry are NOT three down linemen.

the Talking Can
07-31-2011, 02:04 PM
We have no depth. A single injury to a starter would decimate the line. Even with Gregg/Powe at nose tackle we are probably in the lower half of 3-4 defenses if you were to rank each team at nose tackle.

This team is also going to sink or swim with Tyson Jackson at defensive end. If he doesn't live up to his draft status, we are ****ed. Allan Bailey and Wallace Gilberry are NOT three down linemen.

assuming no more additions, Crennel and Haley and Pioli obviously disagree...they have chosen these players, chosen not to bring in anyone else, and chose to let Smith go...


they're saying the line is good enough

Ming the Merciless
07-31-2011, 02:08 PM
They have gotten a hell of a lot closer than we have.

When you are a franchise that had as bad of a decade as we did in the 2000's and who hasn't won a super bowl since 1970, you would think the team might show a lot more urgency.

The Chiefs aren't a whole lot different than the Royals as far as I'm concerned. Telling us to be patient and to wait on the "process" when we have been doing that for 40+ years is bullshit.

What exactly do you expect? We had the worst team in franchise history a couple seasons ago......You dont go from that straight to a Superbowl overnight....Honestly you sound unreasonable to me.

DaFace
07-31-2011, 02:09 PM
What a pathetic excuse for an article. Let's just make excuses for the season before we even get started. :shake:

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 02:10 PM
Any time a poster says Cassel bashers are unreasonable fans, just remember that kcchiefsus exists

RedThat
07-31-2011, 02:15 PM
They have gotten a hell of a lot closer than we have.

When you are a franchise that had as bad of a decade as we did in the 2000's and who hasn't won a super bowl since 1970, you would think the team might show a lot more urgency.

The Chiefs aren't a whole lot different than the Royals as far as I'm concerned. Telling us to be patient and to wait on the "process" when we have been doing that for 40+ years is bullshit.

Your post was okay and I acknowledged your opinion until you said this.

Please...The Chiefs are a lot better then the Royals. To place them in the same category as the Royals is laughable. you deserved to be ripped for saying that.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 02:31 PM
So. I can't decide.

abducted by aliens and replaced with a replicant....

or

abducted by the chiefs and brainwashed

or

satire....:LOL:

tk13
07-31-2011, 02:44 PM
Pioli (or Dayton Moore for that matter) probably shouldn't be making any moves based on the fact that both fanbases have gone through about three decades of heartbreak.

The Chiefs have tried to urgently throw all their chips in to end the drought, that was pretty much the entire Gunther and Vermeil era. That was Carl doing pretty much whatever it took to try and win now to cement his legacy. Really the same thing with the Royals... rushing prospects once they show any life at AAA, etc... the really successful teams don't give a crap what the fans think and aren't afraid to do things their way.

Deberg_1990
07-31-2011, 02:45 PM
I just dont get and cant stand this defeatist attitude. Back in 07-09, i could...heck, i was always a realist back in those days and never predicted more than 6 wins or so. This team has come a loooong way since then. I wont predict any playoff wins, but barring injury, we should expect a winning season.

keg in kc
07-31-2011, 02:54 PM
Pioli (or Dayton Moore for that matter) probably shouldn't be making any moves based on the fact that both fanbases have gone through about three decades of heartbreak.

The Chiefs have tried to urgently throw all their chips in to end the drought, that was pretty much the entire Gunther and Vermeil era. That was Carl doing pretty much whatever it took to try and win now to cement his legacy. Really the same thing with the Royals... rushing prospects once they show any life at AAA, etc... the really successful teams don't give a crap what the fans think and aren't afraid to do things their way.I think that's a fair statement, although at the same time it's hard to see all that space under that cap and watch them only bring in 2 players. It just....feels like they should do more. And maybe they are, and we won't hear about it until August 3rd or something. Or maybe they aren't. Who knows. They aren't going to be talking either way.

Of course what I'm really hoping is that they're able to re-sign Hali and Dorsey and Flowers and Carr and whoever else with that big chuck of change. If the cost of that is not being able to make a couple more mercenary moves for immediate impact in 2011, then I could probably live with it.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2011, 03:15 PM
....explain? :spock:on paper it's very difficult to expect significant impact from draftees in their first year. The lower the round, the less likely ... certain positions, less likely.

(baldwin) WR is a notoriously slow position of impact
(hudson) hopefully he will start by the last 1/3 of the season
(houston) hopefully he can impact some with pure athleticism
(Bailey) in a rotational mix, unless they really do expect him to play NT then he will have to spend his 1st year gaining weight.
(Brown) probably special team his 1st year
(stanzi) nothing
(Miller) ?
(powe) we need it bad but in reality i doubt it his 1st yr
(bannon)special teams

So imo including the draft pick into the equation is just doubtful.

So far we have improved our roster with Breaston,Gregg and lost Waters,Smith and Edwards. When compared to the increase in SOS this improvement is not even enough to keep us even.

How much does Gregg have left and can Breaston stay healthy?

Our improvement is going to have to come from our existing young player that we HOPE will continue to improve. Sure it can happen but when going by "paper" it's sketchy at best.

ChiefsCountry
07-31-2011, 03:25 PM
I fully expect us to win the division. The Chiefs are one of the top 6 teams in the AFC no questions asked. Granted we are #6 but we are there.

Ming the Merciless
07-31-2011, 03:27 PM
on paper it's very difficult to expect significant impact from draftees in their first year. The lower the round, the less likely ... certain positions, less likely.

(baldwin) WR is a notoriously slow position of impact
(hudson) hopefully he will start by the last 1/3 of the season
(houston) hopefully he can impact some with pure athleticism
(Bailey) in a rotational mix, unless they really do expect him to play NT then he will have to spend his 1st year gaining weight.
(Brown) probably special team his 1st year
(stanzi) nothing
(Miller) ?
(powe) we need it bad but in reality i doubt it his 1st yr
(bannon)special teams

So imo including the draft pick into the equation is just doubtful.

So far we have improved our roster with Breaston,Gregg and lost Waters,Smith and Edwards. When compared to the increase in SOS this improvement is not even enough to keep us even.

How much does Gregg have left and can Breaston stay healthy?

Our improvement is going to have to come from our existing young player that we HOPE will continue to improve. Sure it can happen but when going by "paper" it's sketchy at best.

I think this is an accurate assessment. The next step then (more difficult though) is to then evaluate the increase (or decrease) of the expected performance of the players on the roster. Do we assume they will perform at the same level as last season? I am biased, but I am thinking we will see more strides forward by many players, further negating the SOS and the loss of Edwards, Smith & waters. I acknowledge my truefan/homer bias though.....I just think more players will make progress this year than not under the current Coaching staff.

stevieray
07-31-2011, 04:59 PM
I fully expect us to win the division. The Chiefs are one of the top 6 teams in the AFC no questions asked. Granted we are #6 but we are there.

:thumb:

RealSNR
07-31-2011, 05:21 PM
on paper it's very difficult to expect significant impact from draftees in their first year. The lower the round, the less likely ... certain positions, less likely.

(baldwin) WR is a notoriously slow position of impact
(hudson) hopefully he will start by the last 1/3 of the season
(houston) hopefully he can impact some with pure athleticism
(Bailey) in a rotational mix, unless they really do expect him to play NT then he will have to spend his 1st year gaining weight.
(Brown) probably special team his 1st year
(stanzi) nothing
(Miller) ?
(powe) we need it bad but in reality i doubt it his 1st yr
(bannon)special teams

So imo including the draft pick into the equation is just doubtful.

So far we have improved our roster with Breaston,Gregg and lost Waters,Smith and Edwards. When compared to the increase in SOS this improvement is not even enough to keep us even.

How much does Gregg have left and can Breaston stay healthy?

Our improvement is going to have to come from our existing young player that we HOPE will continue to improve. Sure it can happen but when going by "paper" it's sketchy at best.None of this is logical. All you're doing is assuming the worst out of all our new additions and then saying, "So you see, on paper our improvements aren't all that great."

No fucking shit. It's on paper. ON PAPER we added a lot of talent through the draft and signed two studs at our biggest holes on the team. That's the point of putting it on paper. The more impressive the name, the better your team is.

It's like you don't understand what "on paper" means

TEX
07-31-2011, 08:15 PM
I fully expect us to win the division. The Chiefs are one of the top 6 teams in the AFC no questions asked. Granted we are #6 but we are there.



No questions asked? I know you're basing it on last year's record but this is a differenty year. IMO, there are indeed questions regarding the top 6 AFC teams, especially regarding the ones in bold...

Patriots
Jets
Steelers
Ravens
Colts
Chiefs
Chargers
Raiders
Texans
Jags

Mama Hip Rockets
07-31-2011, 08:56 PM
I love how the media loves to point out the games that we could have lost, but how about the games we could have won, should have beat the Texans, however our defense disappeared and we suddenly couldn't move the ball. In game one against the Raiders we were a missed sack and a highlight film reception on 4th down by the Raiders from winning that game. Bowe drops a game in INdy against the Colts for a sure TD that would have given the Chiefs the lead and definitely changed the end of the game. We could play "what ifs" and "weak schedule" all day long, but in the end it comes down to playing the games. The Chiefs won 10 games last eyar in the NFL, every team was professional. Did we get lucky, sure we did, just like the Packers did to squeak into the playoffs before winning the Superbowl and being declared the next "Dynasty". Did we have some bad luck, of course, just like the Bills did when they were by far the best losing team in the league. The Chiefs won enough games to make th eplayoffs, and played nearly 3 quarters of great football against the Ravens. Everyone calls it a blow out, but how many opportunities did the Chiefs give the Ravens chances to blow the game out early, yet the Chiefs held the Ravens to FG's! If theis years team believe in themselves and good things happen from hard work and preparation, then they will win at least 10 games! Until someone else wins it, The CHIEFS are still the reigning AFC West Champs!! Enough Said!!

Exactly. All this "could have/should have" stuff is a bunch of grade-A baloney.

Mama Hip Rockets
07-31-2011, 08:59 PM
[B][SIZE="5"]
The reality is that this has the look of an interesting season, fun at times, but ultimately a big disappointment if you expect another AFC West championship.


This is the one of the top 10 dumbest things I have ever read, Mellinger. If you said "Super Bowl" instead of "AFC West championship," that would be reasonable. But the Chiefs are clearly capable of winning the division.

BoltWalt
07-31-2011, 09:24 PM
The Chargers have gotten worse this year. They lost Floyd, Burnett (who is better than Spikes). They lost Ron Rivera and Manusky can't shine his shoes.

The Bolts lost Malcolm Floyd? Do you have a link to this because I have yet to see it any where accept here.