Child Custody

[BigMeatballDave]

Does anyone have joint custody of a child whose other parent lives in another state?

Or maybe know someone in this situation?

My son lives Florida with his mother. They moved away spring of last year. He is 12.

I was going to try to stop it, but I let him go because he said he wanted to.

Now, my son would like to live with me but his mother isn't the nicest person. I don't want to put him through that. She told him he wasn't allowed to live with me. I didn't question her. I told him he is old enough to decide where he wants to live.

I brought up joint custody to him over the weekend. I said the way I believe it works is, I get him 6 months and she gets 6 months. Plus, he has to transfer school in the middle of the yr, every yr. He was cool with that. He is on board. He wants to do this.

How do I go about doing this legally? Do I have to contact an attorney?

[BigMeatballDave]

I should mention that she and I were never married and there was never visitation set. She agreed to let me see him whenever. Which was 75% of weekends. Maybe more.

[Phobia]

Yes, you need an attorney. You'll need to file in the state in which the child has established residency - which is Florida. Florida does not have an age at which a child may choose which parent to live with.

Not only will you need an attorney but you'll also be required to pay a court appointed guardian ad litem for your child.

This is going to get expensive. Plan on it.

Don't do anything stupid. You try to take the child or anything like that and you can kiss any chance of keeping him goodbye. You'll also probably do some time.

Now stop asking idiots on a football board questions about it. Do some research on Florida Family court law. And find yourself a second or third job to pay for this thing.

[kysirsoze]

Yes, you need an attorney. You'll need to file in the state in which the child has established residency - which is Florida. Florida does not have an age at which a child may choose which parent to live with.

Not only will you need an attorney but you'll also be required to pay a court appointed guardian ad litem for your child.

This is going to get expensive. Plan on it.

Don't do anything stupid. You try to take the child or anything like that and you can kiss any chance of keeping him goodbye. You'll also probably do some time.

Now stop asking idiots on a football questions about it. Do some research on Florida Family court law. And find yourself a second or third job to pay for this thing.

I'm an idiot on a football and I approve this message.

[TimeForWasp]

I can see problems with breaking up his school year. What about if he gets into sports or any other activities? Looks like opening up a can of worms to me. Plus the problems with logistics.

[Phobia]

Additionally, no judge is going to allow a kid to travel between states 6 months out of the year. They're always looking at best interest of the child which basically means least disruption to the child's life. That means keeping the kid in the same school. That means keeping the kid in his extra-curricular activities. If you lived in the same neighborhood as your son's mother, you'd have a good chance of getting 50/50 custody. Living 5 states away and allowing them to leave Ohio without filing an agreement of custody with the court doesn't bode well for you, IMO.

[kysirsoze]

Additionally, no judge is going to allow a kid to travel between states 6 months out of the year. They're always looking at best interest of the child which basically means least disruption to the child's life. That means keeping the kid in the same school. That means keeping the kid in his extra-curricular activities. If you lived in the same neighborhood as your son's mother, you'd have a good chance of getting 50/50 custody. Living 5 states away and allowing them to leave Ohio without filing an agreement of custody with the court doesn't bode well for you, IMO.

This is what I thought. I would guess if you want to see your kid that often, you're gonna need to move.

[BigMeatballDave]

Yes, you need an attorney. You'll need to file in the state in which the child has established residency - which is Florida. Florida does not have an age at which a child may choose which parent to live with.

Not only will you need an attorney but you'll also be required to pay a court appointed guardian ad litem for your child.

This is going to get expensive. Plan on it.

Don't do anything stupid. You try to take the child or anything like that and you can kiss any chance of keeping him goodbye. You'll also probably do some time.

Now stop asking idiots on a football board questions about it. Do some research on Florida Family court law. And find yourself a second or third job to pay for this thing.Well, shit. I thought all states had an age where they can decide which parent.

[BossChief]

have somebody start a meth lab in her garage and call the cops

[Phobia]

Well, shit. I thought all states had an age where they can decide which parent.

No - and even those that do won't necessarily rule for the child's desire. They do home studies and hear from the child's attorney. They determine what is in the best interest of the child. So, unless you have a slam dunk against an incompetent mother or a lot of money to pay a team of attorneys get prepared for the battle of your life.

[BigMeatballDave]

have somebody start a meth lab in her garage and call the copsLMAO

[BigMeatballDave]

No - and even those that do won't necessarily rule for the child's desire. They do home studies and hear from the child's attorney. They determine what is in the best interest of the child. So, unless you have a slam dunk against an incompetent mother or a lot of money to pay a team of attorneys get prepared for the battle of your life.Would she have to lawyer up as well?

[unlurking]

I agree with everything Phobia's said (and experienced it as a father). From a kid's perspective, stability is a huge issue, and ripping up their roots every six months isn't good. If you really want more time with him, move. I know it sucks, but that's what we do for our kids.

[luv]

I should mention that she and I were never married and there was never visitation set. She agreed to let me see him whenever. Which was 75% of weekends. Maybe more.

Do you pay court appointed child support? If so, it surprises me that they didn't require you to set up visitation. If not, well, Phobia's right. Only, I thought the court appointed the guardian ad litem. Not sure who pays for it in the end. Haven't researched that.

[dirk digler]

Dave, my friend, wtf were you thinking when you decided to let her leave the state with him? Any judge would have stopped that if you challenged it.

Just to let you know my brother went through a similar deal except he didn't know he had a kid until they showed up at his doorstep in KC. They lived in Florida as well.

He was lucky that the mother was a POS and was living with felons and he was able to get custody of her and bring her back to KC. It probably cost him though $10,000-15,000 and the sad part is when she turned 18 a couple of years ago she moved back to Florida with her mom. Now she is into drugs and whoring around.

So basically do what Phil said.

[Iowanian]

Maybe you should move to Florida to be with your kid.....

[Phobia]

Do you pay court appointed child support? If so, it surprises me that they didn't require you to set up visitation. If not, well, Phobia's right. Only, I thought the court appointed the guardian ad litem. Not sure who pays for it in the end. Haven't researched that.

The court does appoint the GAL. But mom and dad get the bills and since the court is going to consider the recommendation of the GAL it behooves you to pay them if you want a favorable recommendation.

[Phobia]

Would she have to lawyer up as well?

No, not necessarily. But she'll lose if she doesn't.

[Predarat]

Since you are the guy, she is the gal, and its now up to the courts in the great F-L-A you are basicly screwed.

[FishingRod]

As someone who has an Evil X wife I would say yours is not a bad baby momma if you are getting as much time as you say. Sadly you need to get the custody agreement in writing. It is always best if the two of you can agree on Holidays weekend and the sort but she right now has veto power over anything you want. She is in possession and you are seeing him as much as you do because she is not being spiteful. Or maybe she doesn’t really enjoy being a parent. If she wants to keep your son, your chances of getting custody are probably far less than spending every cent you have and losing your case. Both of my kids would prefer to live with me but the fallout of them having to testify in court that they choose me over their mother would cause a great deal of damage to their already shaky relationship. She would fight me tooth and nail and if I were to lose they would suffer from an angry, jilted mean and stupid Mother. The law on paper does not see gender but the real world is not on paper and unless she is good with him coming to live with you, you are going to have to prove that the change has more benefits than the cost of uprooting your kid. I would suggest trying to work out in a civil manner a schedule with her and spin it as not you are trying to take anything away from her but you want your child to know the routine and schedule for his and everyone else’s benefit. Just some thoughts and I hope all works out.

[Saul Good]

I'm an idiot on a football and I approve this message.

Planking, owling, or humping?

[Saul Good]

Dave, my friend, wtf were you thinking when you decided to let her leave the state with him? Any judge would have stopped that if you challenged it.

Just to let you know my brother went through a similar deal except he didn't know he had a kid until they showed up at his doorstep in KC. They lived in Florida as well.

He was lucky that the mother was a POS and was living with felons and he was able to get custody of her and bring her back to KC. It probably cost him though $10,000-15,000 and the sad part is when she turned 18 a couple of years ago she moved back to Florida with her mom. Now she is into drugs and whoring around.

So basically do what Phil said.

I'm not sure that your story adds up. I'm going to need the name, address, and phone number of this girl in order to make sure everything checks out. Oh, and pics of the chick...I'm gonna need some pics.

[NewChief]

I'm sure you've considered this as well but... at twelve years old, kids start playing parents against each other. I work in a high school, and I see it constantly. Kids get pissed at one parent, and move in with the other (switch schools), then they're back a month or so later because they got pissed at the other parent. They do this rotation, constantly moving in with the parent who is currently in favor with the child. It's definitely not good for the child's education or development.

[Inspector]

One of my sons is in a similar situation. Joint custody but he has primary residence. In his case the babies momma abandonded her kids and moved out of state. (And no, they were never married) According to my sons attorney, the courts won't allow joint custody if there are more than x miles (can't remember the miles) between the parents.

Best advise I can give is for you to re-read what that Phobia guy told you already. I think he sums it up well and has provided you with some sound guidance.

Good luck. Kids need dads too.

[BigMeatballDave]

Do you pay court appointed child support? If so, it surprises me that they didn't require you to set up visitation. If not, well, Phobia's right. Only, I thought the court appointed the guardian ad litem. Not sure who pays for it in the end. Haven't researched that.I've been paying support since he was 2 months old. I had it set up myself. We were still together when I did this.

[BigMeatballDave]

Maybe you should move to Florida to be with your kid.....Not an option. I have a great job now. Quitting a job in this environment is crazy. There is nothing in Florida.

[BigMeatballDave]

No, not necessarily. But she'll lose if she doesn't.Awesome. I win. There is no way she would hire an attorney or even afford one.

I can't afford one at the moment, but I could in 6 months.

[FishingRod]

Awesome. I win. There is no way she would hire an attorney or even afford one.

I can't afford one at the moment, but I could in 6 months.

You might end up having to pay for her attorney too, just sayin

[BigMeatballDave]

Dave, my friend, wtf were you thinking when you decided to let her leave the state with him? Any judge would have stopped that if you challenged it.

Just to let you know my brother went through a similar deal except he didn't know he had a kid until they showed up at his doorstep in KC. They lived in Florida as well.

He was lucky that the mother was a POS and was living with felons and he was able to get custody of her and bring her back to KC. It probably cost him though $10,000-15,000 and the sad part is when she turned 18 a couple of years ago she moved back to Florida with her mom. Now she is into drugs and whoring around.

So basically do what Phil said.Yeah, I kick myself daily.

I asked him if he really wanted to go and he said yes. I didn't want to stand in the way.

[FishingRod]

Yeah, I kick myself daily.

I asked him if he really wanted to go and he said yes. I didn't want to stand in the way.

I did the same dumbass thing, just to the other side of town across state line, but even 30 miles makes more of a difference than you would ever guess. I hope you get stuff worked out , the sooner the better

[Phobia]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.

[Bump]

ya........you're screwed.

[Graystoke]

Not to cut hairs here but isn't Joint Custody different then Shared Custody?

I live in the same town as my ex. We have Joint Custody. In other words the kids live with her, I get visitation on Tue, Thur and every other weekend etc.. but anything legal about the kids must go through me as well

Shared Custody I thought was a 50/50 split?

Sounds like a tough battle Dave. Good luck!

[OnTheWarpath15]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.

Congrats, man. I had no idea.

[luv]

Not to cut hairs here but isn't Joint Custody different then Shared Custody?

I live in the same town as my ex. We have Joint Custody. In other words the kids live with her, I get visitation on Tue, Thur and every other weekend etc.. but anything legal about the kids must go through me as well

Shared Custody I thought was a 50/50 split?

Sounds like a tough battle Dave. Good luck!

Joint, sole, or split.
Physical or legal.

Split is where one child goes with one parent while the other child goes with the other parent.

[BigMeatballDave]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.This is awesome. Congrats!

[Predarat]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.

The system is already manipulated towards the moms side to begin with. Good grief. But glad things are finially going better for you!

[BigMeatballDave]

You might end up having to pay for her attorney too, just sayinShe Wouldn't even be able or even willing to pay for one. You gotta pay a retainer fee upfront, right?

[Deberg_1990]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.

Nice...congrats dude! Hopefully you wont have to do much "Deprogramming" on her. : )

[FishingRod]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.

Phobia that is outstanding! you sir have my envy. My daughter turns 18 next april, She could tell you how many days. My poor son has about 4 years on his count down.

[Phobia]

This is awesome. Congrats!

Thanks. Yeah. The point I'm making is that you're not always going to be battling the system and her. Eventually kids become adults and make their own choices. At that point you determine how well you did through all the trials. I'm not perfect and I didn't do everything right always but I'm feeling a pretty good sense of vindication right now. I'd probably trade my retirement all over again. Hang in there. Be there. Be interested. Everything changes when the law stops deciding everything for your family.

On second thought, I think I would have rather spent those tens of thousands on vacations and travel with my kids because the lawyers didn't ever really deliver anything tangible. Your mileage may vary. Don't mistake my wisdom for legal advice. I'm just sharing my experiences in hopes that it encourages you.

[Phobia]

Nice...congrats dude! Hopefully you wont have to do much "Deprogramming" on her. : )

Been de programming them their entire lives. I've always asked them to choose the best attributes from both their mother and I and emulate them because no matter how much we try not to be, we're all going to end up like our parents. My only wish is that my kids overcome the weaknesses and demonstrate the strong character from each parent. No matter how much I dislike my ex, she is half of those girls and she's not all evil. Hopefully they'll discard her awful manipulation and harness some of her tenacity, for example.

[Jenson71]

How would you feel getting your son for his summer vacations and some holidays?

The 6mo/6mo does not seem smart at all. Just because he wants it now and is okay with it shouldn't mean much. After all, he wanted to move only some months ago, and his mind is changed now.

[Jenson71]

On second thought, I think I would have rather spent those tens of thousands on vacations and travel with my kids because the lawyers didn't ever really deliver anything tangible. Your mileage may vary. Don't mistake my wisdom for legal advice. I'm just sharing my experiences in hopes that it encourages you.

Just curious: was there anything you think the lawyers could have done but didn't?

[Inspector]

I didn't make that mistake. I fought it. But I lost. She manipulated the system.

But, my daughter turned 18 this year. She graduated HS. She's had enough of her crazy mother. She's moving to Kansas City in 2 days. In fact, I'm in Houston picking her up right now.


Awesome!

Congrats Phil.

If life were a yard stick, they are only kids for the first few inches. Then rest of your years you have an adult relationship with your kids. And if the kids are used by one parent against the other, that can sometimes turn out bad for the parent doing the manipulation. The vast majority of each parents relationship with their kids is after they become adults.

[Jenson71]

Also, since two different states are here, the UCCJEA is going to be a relevant factor. You can read about it here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/189181.pdf

I'm not a lawyer, though. I would hire one, if I were you.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not a family lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

The chances of you getting any kind of 50/50 split are almost precisely zero - sorry. I'm not up to speed on the particulars of Florida family law, but essentially every state in the union has adopted some form of the "Best interests of the child" test. There's no way a judge is going to determine that its in the child's best interests to switch schools every semester. The courts will always favor stability, especially when it comes to education and especially when they're in vulnerable growth stages.

However, there's a decent chance you could secure large chunks of the summer, if not all of it (though the court will likely still allow the mother some summer days as well; afterall that would be prime vacation time for her as well).

It's not at all unlikely that you could get him for a couple months at least. The courts recognize that there's nothing truly 'planned' over that time period and that you'd be able to provide as stable a home for him over that time as he'd get in FL. You'd probably want to speak to how he'll spend his time out there though. If he's active in sports or something in Florida but intends to spend his summers with you playing X-Box because he can't find a team, the courts going to be somewhat wary there.

Be realistic in your expectations and prepared to answer questions as to the child's best interests. Remember, your position needs to be objective. Courts don't really care that much what the child thinks his best interests are, so "because he says he wants to be here" isn't going to carry a hell of a lot of weight. When I say be objective, I mean you need to target an objective person's belief of what his best interests would be. You need to make a case that would be persuasive to a 3rd party.

[DJ's left nut]

Also, since two different states are here, the UCCJEA is going to be a relevant factor. You can read about it here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/189181.pdf

It's almost always 'home state'.

The parents weren't married, the father didn't contest the move, the child's lived there for a little bit; home state will be the controlling jurisdiction, I'm almost sure of it.

[Jenson71]

What state was the initial custody determination in?

[Phobia]

IveJust curious: was there anything you think the lawyers could have done but didn't?

I've had more than one custody battle plus appeals so lots of lawyers. My original lawyers did a pretty good job protecting my interests. No huge complaints there. 2nd custody battle my lawyer was very well prepared and did well. We won. But for the appeal he was unprepared and completely dominated which negated everything else he had done well.

[Jenson71]

It's almost always 'home state'.

The parents weren't married, the father didn't contest the move, the child's lived there for a little bit; home state will be the controlling jurisdiction, I'm almost sure of it.

I think you're right. This is eerily similiar to my Family Law exam in May. I didn't do so well in that class.

[DJ's left nut]

Ive

I've had more than one custody battle plus appeals so lots of lawyers. My original lawyers did a pretty good job protecting my interests. No huge complaints there. 2nd custody battle my lawyer was very well prepared and did well. We won. But for the appeal he was unprepared and completely dominated which negated everything else he had done well.

A man's got to know his own limitations.

Trial litigation and appellate practice are two massively different animals. If you have someone tell you that they're just as capable of doing either, chances are they don't do either one of them terribly well.

That's a red flag right away, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

I think you're right. This is eerily similiar to my Family Law exam in May. I didn't do so well in that class.

I didn't even take a family law class - so Dave needs to consider that when reading my advice ;)

That said - family law is the easiest law in the world. There are about 5 different tests you have to remember, 3 different 'key phrases' and then work backwards from the fact patteron on how the man in the equation can get screwed over.

[Skyy God]

How would you feel getting your son for his summer vacations and some holidays?

That's probably his best case scenario under the circumstances.

[luv]

I think you're right. This is eerily similiar to my Family Law exam in May. I didn't do so well in that class.

What's your major?

[luv]

I didn't even take a family law class - so Dave needs to consider that when reading my advice ;)

That said - family law is the easiest law in the world. There are about 5 different tests you have to remember, 3 different 'key phrases' and then work backwards from the fact patteron on how the man in the equation can get screwed over.

Family law give paralegals job security, especially if it involves children. That and bankruptcy.

[Jenson71]

What's your major?

There are no majors in law school, but my undergrad majors were History and Political Science.

[luv]

There are no majors in law school, but my undergrad majors were History and Political Science.

You're done with undergrad already? Seems like yesterday you were just going in. Man, time flies.

[Jenson71]

You're done with undergrad already? Seems like yesterday you were just going in. Man, time flies.

Yep, I graduated from UNI in May 2010.

[BigMeatballDave]

How would you feel getting your son for his summer vacations and some holidays?

The 6mo/6mo does not seem smart at all. Just because he wants it now and is okay with it shouldn't mean much. After all, he wanted to move only some months ago, and his mind is changed now.I have him this summer. Goes home on the 13th.

I'm not crazy about the 6 month deal.

He revealed to me that he told his mom on 2 separate occasions that he wanted equal time. She told him both times that he 'may as well just live with your Dad then'.

Not sure what to do about that. I need to talk to his mother.

[BigMeatballDave]

Loads of great info in here guys.

Thank you.

[LiveSteam]

I have him this summer. Goes home on the 13th.

I'm not crazy about the 6 month deal.

He revealed to me that he told his mom on 2 separate occasions that he wanted equal time. She told him both times that he 'may as well just live with your Dad then'.

Not sure what to do about that. I need to talk to his mother.

I would not talk to his mother. SHUT YOUR MOUTH & get a lawyer ASAP. Like Phobia. I have been threw this several times. With several lawyers.
Everyone said. Live Steam you have zero chance of taking that baby girl from her mom. she is collage educated with a masters,works for the post office 15 year, she not on drugs , dont drink,has no record,& belongs to the PONCA Tribe.
You MY SON have no chance.
I said bull shit! My gut tells me different, & I went for it.
My lil girl has lived with me since 2005. I have 100% custody.
Even if you lose? later in life you can tell you child. I tried. I did everything I could son.
If you truly believe your son is better off living with you. Then by all means go for it. If the boy truly wants to live with you? I think you have more than a 50/50 chance

[BigMeatballDave]

I swear all she cares about is child support.

[Backwards Masking]

I swear all she cares about is child support.

My dad has a friend who has a friend who's daughter had 4 kids with 4 different daddies. She married and divorced two of them, so between what she gets from the state, alimony and (the big one) four monthly child support checks, she literally brings home double my income working 40 plus hours a week to be a Stay At Home Mommy. Must be nice...

[BigMeatballDave]

My dad has a friend who has a friend who's daughter had 4 kids with 4 different daddies. She married and divorced two of them, so between what she gets from the state, alimony and (the big one) four monthly child support checks, she literally brings home double my income working 40 plus hours a week to be a Stay At Home Mommy. Must be nice...Wow

[ModSocks]

My dad has a friend who has a friend who's daughter had 4 kids with 4 different daddies. She married and divorced two of them, so between what she gets from the state, alimony and (the big one) four monthly child support checks, she literally brings home double my income working 40 plus hours a week to be a Stay At Home Mommy. Must be nice...

Another benefit of having a vagina...

[Fat Elvis]

I swear all she cares about is child support.

Child support is probably cheaper than the attorney.

[ModSocks]

I swear all she cares about is child support.

Figures. It's pretty infuriating what women can get away with.

[BigMeatballDave]

Child support is probably cheaper than the attorney.Quite likely. I don't care. She's been getting nearly $400/mo from me for more than 12 yrs. If I could have my son I would continue to pay.

[BigMeatballDave]

I forgot about this, I told her before she moved away to just let me have him and I would waive child support from her.