New Conference re-alignment thread

[Saulbadguy]

The old one has AIDS.

Anyways, Chip Brown from Orangebloods.com reports OU may apply to the Pac-12 by the end of the month.

Oklahoma will apply for membership to the Pac-12 before the end of the month, and Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit, a source close to OU's administration told Orangebloods.com.

Even though Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Friday the Pac-12 was not interested in expansion at this time, OU's board of regents is fed up with the instability in the Big 12, the source said.

The OU board of regents will meet within two weeks to formalize plans to apply for membership to the Pac-12, the source said.

Messages left Sunday night with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione and Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder were not immediately returned.

If OU follows through with what appears to be a unanimous sentiment on the seven-member Oklahoma board of regents to leave the Big 12, realignment in college athletics could be heating back up. OU's application would be matched by an application from Oklahoma State, the source said, even though OSU president Burns Hargis and mega-booster Boone Pickens both voiced their support for the Big 12 last Thursday.

There is differing sentiment about if the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors are ready to expand again after bringing in Colorado and Utah last year and landing $3 billion TV contracts from Fox and ESPN. Colorado president Bruce Benson told reporters last week CU would be opposed to any expansion that might bring about east and west divisions in the Pac-12.

Currently, there are north and south divisions in the Pac-12. If OU and OSU were to join, Larry Scott would have to get creative.

Scott's orginal plan last summer was to bring in Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and put them in an eastern division with Arizona and Arizona State. The old Pac-8 schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State) were to be in the west division.

Colorado made the move in June 2010, but when Texas A&M was not on board to go west, the Big 12 came back together with the help of its television partners (ABC/ESPN and Fox).

If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were accepted into the Pac-12, there would undoubtedly be a hope by Larry Scott that Texas would join the league. But Texas sources have indicated UT is determined to hang onto the Longhorn Network, which would not be permissible in the Pac-12 in its current form.

Texas sources continue to indicate to Orangebloods.com that if the Big 12 falls apart, the Longhorns would consider "all options."

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe held an emergency conference call 10 days ago with league presidents excluding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M and asked the other league presidents to "work on Texas" because Beebe didn't think the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma without Texas.

Now, it appears OU is willing to take its chances with the Pac-12 with or without Texas.

There seemed to be a temporary pause in any possible shifting of the college athletics' landscape when Baylor led a charge to tie up Texas A&M's move to the Southeastern Conference in legal red tape. BU refused to waive its right to sue the SEC over A&M's departure from the Big 12, and the SEC said it would not admit Texas A&M until it had been cleared of any potential lawsuits.

Baylor, Kansas and Iowa State have indicated they will not waive their right to sue the SEC.

It's unclear if an application by OU to the Pac-12 would draw the same threats of litigation against the Pac-12 from those Big 12 schools.

Stay tuned.

[Reerun_KC]

In.

[BigRichard]

Out

[|Zach|]

The old one has AIDS.



LMAO

[HemiEd]

Glad you started a new thread Saul, this is getting really interesting.

[Saulbadguy]

LMAO

I had nothing against the old thread, except that it double posted 1 out of every 3 times.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Awesome.

[patteeu]

Repost :Poke:

[eazyb81]

Update from Greg Swaim.

http://www.gregswaim.com/2011/09/conference-realignment-slowed-not-dead/

Last week’s threat of litigation by Baylor put some sand in the gears of conference realignment, but I’m told by several sources that the actual football season has put the pause button on more than anything else.

According to one terrific source in Los Angeles, “This thing is going to happen, but the timing is the only real issue at this point.”
Just about every media member I spoke to on the west coast is still hearing that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State will be going to the Pac 12, and that the two are negotiating a regional TV deal with FoxSports before everything goes through.

Many of those same sources feel like there will be two other current Big 12 teams joining the Bedlam duo, and all of those are certain that there will be at least one team from the state of Texas joining them, but the Longhorns are not necessarily the ones. Talks between UT and a third-party with the Pac 12 cannot seem to come to any common ground concerning the Longhorn Network, and one of our Arizona sources told us Thursday evening that he feels certain that UT “is going to have a very difficult time getting into any conference other than the ACC, unless they are willing to make some major sacrifices they aren’t currently willing to do.”

Texas Tech is certainly willing to go, but who would be the fourth to create the first so called “Super Conference” with the Pac 16?
That’s certainly up for debate among the west coast sources we’ve spoken to, but a straw poll seems to favor Missouri if the Longhorns don’t go west. Kansas seems to be a distant second, but most agreed that their lack of football presence would hurt the Jayhawks.

There is no doubt that talks are ongoing, and we’re told by three media sources in California to expect some big news no later than September 22nd, so we’ll continue to follow this story…and will bring in guests on this subject on the Greg Swaim Radio Show (http://www.gregswaim.com/radio).

[BroncosBuff]

It seems Kansas City asked Pac 12 commish if they can join the conference and he dismissed them out of his office, saying it is only for real football teams which has some sort of winning history.

[Dayze]

It seems Kansas City asked Pac 12 commish if they can join the conference and he dismissed them out of his office, saying it is only for real football teams which has some sort of winning history.

:rolleyes::facepalm:

[BmoreBills]

Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri should come to the Big Ten. We really need more of a midwest representation to combat the Pac 12/14/16 menace :P

http://www.big12hoops.com/2011/8/11/2357483/big-12-expansion-sec-texas-am-pac-12-big-10-mountain-west-longhorns

[vailpass]

CU is the guy who finally moved from an apartment to a new house in a nice neighborhood only to find out there is a proposal to tear down the wooded lot that borders his property to put up apartment buildings.

[Crush]

CU is the guy who finally moved from an apartment to a new house in a nice neighborhood only to find out there is a proposal to tear down the wooded lot that borders his property to put up apartment buildings.

LMAO So true.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

ugh

[alnorth]

Kirk Bohls from the Austin American-Statesman is basically confirming this in a short and to the point blog entry. Not looking good for the Big 12 to survive.

Texas, OU meet (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/bohls/entries/2011/09/12/texas_ou_meet.html)

About a dozen administrators from Texas and Oklahoma, including the presidents of both schools and some regents, met in Norman, Okla., on Sunday to discuss potential realignment and get a better understanding of the possible destinations for both schools.

Texas made it clear it wants to preserve the Big 12, but sources say OU made it just as clear it plans to pursue membership in the Pac-12 Conference along with fellow league member Oklahoma State.

The Longhorns’ plans remain unclear, but it appears they will have to choose between becoming an independent to keep their Longhorn Network or joining the Pac-12 or possibly the ACC as a last option.

OU and OSU do not have invites to the Pac-12.

Texas president William Powers flew with athletic director DeLoss Dodds and women’s athletic director Chris Plonsky for the meeting but were unavailable for comment.

[vailpass]

Nice that UTerus lets the women's AD tag along though I'm guessing he isn't allowed to speak unless spoken to. Do any other schools have separate boys and girls ADs?

[alnorth]

On the scale of reliability for rumors, I'd rank this at dead last, but this thread is fair game for any half-assed hare-brained rumor, so what the hell I'll throw it in. Look at this as nothing more than an amusing diversion unless someone serious is jumping on this.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=146&f=2445&t=7914295

Citing nothing but "chatter", someone from Sooners Illustrated is basically saying that 1) UT thinks the Oklahoma schools are gone, so 2) they are trying to convince everyone else to go to the Big East, while 3) UT goes independent and joins the Big East only in non-FB sports. Also said 4) UT is trying to bribe KU to go along with the plan with a $4MM check from the LHN to televise the KU-UT game.

[mcan]

Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri should come to the Big Ten. We really need more of a midwest representation to combat the Pac 12/14/16 menace :P

http://www.big12hoops.com/2011/8/11/2357483/big-12-expansion-sec-texas-am-pac-12-big-10-mountain-west-longhorns

Throw kstate in and this move makes sense from a region and rivalry perspective.

[LiveSteam]

Some type of meeting reported happening tonight at Missouri to discus a move to the SEC
No link. Just herd it on ESPN 1620 radio

[Backwards Masking]

College Football : we can't have a playoff or get rid of the bowl system because it's tradition and we have too much pride to break tradition, traditional comes first.

But we'll rearrange the conferences as often as possible if it helps the bottom line cause we're not making enough money.

[eazyb81]

Interesting rumor from the OU premium board. Supposedly the guy is credible and this is picking up steam around the interwebz. Take it for what it's worth.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=187&f=2639&t=7915231

GEA89
[Scout Subscriber]
Admin/Moderator
Rating: 4.1/5 this site
29803 posts this site

Posted: Today 3:56 PM
Monday 9/12 Afternoon Update
If you think OU and Texas are in bed together in this thing you could not be more wrong. Hop alluded in the Premium board something I heard over the weekend from a prominent Sooner booster that OU has had their fill with the sips and are on the verge of heading West. What caused it? Well my source told me it was a trust issue but Hop took it a step further, he stated that the whole deal with Texas partnering with Notre Dame to put together a proposal to go to the Big 10 seemed to be the rub here. OU had meetings with the people in Austin talking of saving the Big XII and committing to that very thing. But when they found out the leaked info that Texas had been in talks with Big 10 people what trust that was there is now on life support.

As you all have seen, we have used a term "fluid" here a lot. The reasons that something like conference realignment being "fluid" are because of situations changing like cited above and the fact that lawyers are involved and so predicting things like timing are very difficult. This situation is very fluid regarding OU, could they repair their trust issues with the Horns? Very unlikely at this point. Could they announce a move to the Pac 12 very soon? Probable if you ask me but they do have some concerns regarding scheduling, travel, etc. and thus the reason I use the fluid term. In talking to my OU source who is very strong and very reliable he told me the following about a half hour ago "we are almost out the door, just looking for our keys." I asked if he would put a probability percentage on it and he told me 98%.

So let's suspend the thought that it might not happen, the situation gets fluid, and my friends 2% comes in to play. Let's say they are ready to pull the trigger and move right now, the next question being the pink elephant in the room of when? Will OU/Pac 12 jump out and cite there is enough conference instability that Baylor we dare you to pull your pathetic desperation attempts and sue the Pac 12? Will they wait for A&M to get an unconditional acceptance into the SEC? We are hearing A&M lawyers are presenting to every SEC school's legal team and Presidents and have been since Friday their case in hopes of alleviating any concern regarding Baylor's weak case. Or will it take A&M declaring independence, re-writing the letter they wrote to the Big XII that said we are gone if we get an invite to the SEC?

Only time will tell, but one thing is for sure, there sure is a ton of activity going on right now and this very well could end soon if OU is indeed one foot out the door.

[Garcia Bronco]

College Football : we can't have a playoff or get rid of the bowl system because it's tradition and we have too much pride to break tradition, traditional comes first.

But we'll rearrange the conferences as often as possible if it helps the bottom line cause we're not making enough money.

The money funds the school and education. It's not a completely bad thing.

[Backwards Masking]

The money funds the school and education. It's not a completely bad thing.

Hyprocrisy is always a bad thing. Justifying it and teaching it future generations is even worse.

[alnorth]

quote today from PAC 12 commissioner. (ie, forget about all that gas about how they don't want to expand)

If schools are going to leave the Big 12 and there's going to be a paradigm shift, or a landscape change as people like to describe it, we'll go ahead and step back and look at our options, then reconsider (expansion).

[Garcia Bronco]

Hyprocrisy is always a bad thing. Justifying it and teaching it future generations is even worse.

It's not hypocrisy in reality. It kills me the way people think that the colleges owe them a playoff system like in profootball.

[RustShack]

quote today from PAC 12 commissioner. (ie, forget about all that gas about how they don't want to expand)

So the Big12 isn't going anywhere unless Oklahoma leaves. But Oklahoma would be going to the Pac. But the Pac isn't going to look at adding anymore schools unless the Big12 falls apart first.

[alnorth]

So the Big12 isn't going anywhere unless Oklahoma leaves. But Oklahoma would be going to the Pac. But the Pac isn't going to look at adding anymore schools unless the Big12 falls apart first.

You are forgetting about Texas A&M. The quote was in response to Texas A&M going to the SEC, and his response was basically, "well hell I guess it would be game on, then!" The PAC 12 commissioner is publicly interpreting "big 12 falling apart" as "Texas A&M left"

[RustShack]

You are forgetting about Texas A&M. The quote was in response to Texas A&M going to the SEC, and his response was basically, "well hell I guess it would be game on, then!" The PAC 12 commissioner is publicly interpreting "big 12 falling apart" as "Texas A&M left"

I'm not forgetting aTm. We already know they are gone. Its up to Oklahoma now. If they stay we add BYU and we are in better shape than we were with aTm.

[RustShack]

Also I'm starting to think that if conference armageddon does happen, ISU is B1G bound.

[Saul Good]

Also I'm starting to think that if conference armageddon does happen, ISU is B1G bound.

Iowa State is a great fit as long as the B!G isn't concerned with having a school that is good at football, good at basketball, good at academics, or expanding the conference's footprint.

[Saulbadguy]

Also I'm starting to think that if conference armageddon does happen, ISU is B1G bound.

No.

[Saulbadguy]

Although Texas might join the Big 10.

[tk13]

Don't worry, Notre Dame is going to swoop in and save the Big 12!

[Saul Good]

There is as good of a chance that Texas goes to the Patriot League as there is of Iowa State going to the B!G.

[Backwards Masking]

It's not hypocrisy in reality. It kills me the way people think that the colleges owe them a playoff system like in profootball.

they don't just owe it to me, they owe it all their fellow Americans, those American's children, their children, and their children's children.

And if it's not hypocrisy, they'd come out and say "we're in it for the money only" instead of going into the Tradition defense before debating which 100 plus year rivalry to break up next.

[Saul Good]

they don't just owe it to me, they owe it all their fellow Americans, those American's children, their children, and their children's children.

And if it's not hypocrisy, they'd come out and say "we're in it for the money only" instead of going into the Tradition defense before debating which 100 plus year rivalry to break up next.

Show me where the NCAA has said that tradition was the reason to keep the BCS.

[kysirsoze]

This stuff is even less interesting to me than the CBA talks were. Wake me when it's over.

(Don't worry, that's the extent to which I'll shit in this thread.)

[Backwards Masking]

Show me where the NCAA has said that tradition was the reason to keep the BCS.

i never claimed they said it was their main reason, but it has been used as one reason several times. they dont exactly openly admit they're denying fans of a fairly decided championship based on pure greed either.

[alnorth]

Show me where the NCAA has said that tradition was the reason to keep the BCS.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the BCS. If it was up to the NCAA, I imagine they would love to control the CFB postseason with an NCAA football tournament, with a huge multi-year contract with CBS or whoever, etc.

However, the NCAA does not have any control over the postseason except for enforcement actions for rules violations. The major conferences have seized control of the football postseason, and they keep all the money. Unlike the NCAA basketball tournament, which is used to fund every other damned sport, which makes basketball programs less important to conferences than football programs because the NCAA is too much of a gutless coward than to try to get control of football revenue.

[alnorth]

i never claimed they said it was their main reason, but it has been used as one reason several times. they dont exactly openly admit they're denying fans of a fairly decided championship based on pure greed either.

If you are mad at the NCAA, your anger is wildly misplaced. They have allowed themselves to become helpless bystanders with no access to college football money. Get mad at the BCS conferences.

[HolyHandgernade]

Exactly, the BCS actually does not want these super conferences as it will dilute the Bowl System. They, and the TV execs would much rather see the status quo. Its the conferences and their networks that are driving this.

[007]

Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri should come to the Big Ten. We really need more of a midwest representation to combat the Pac 12/14/16 menace :P

http://www.big12hoops.com/2011/8/11/2357483/big-12-expansion-sec-texas-am-pac-12-big-10-mountain-west-longhorns
If we are going to 4 super conferences then the Big 10 is the best place for them.

[DenverChief]

this sh!t is getting old - sh!t or get off the f*cking pot - So damn tired of all this

[RustShack]

Iowa State is a great fit as long as the B!G isn't concerned with having a school that is good at football, good at basketball, good at academics, or expanding the conference's footprint.

Are you talking about currently or history? Because Iowa State has a good football team this year, will have a good basketball team this year, are good in academics, and Iowa wont be the first team in the B1G to have two schools.

Iowa State is actually a perfect fit in every way except for the TV market, but Iowa wouldn't be the first school to have two teams in the same conference. Plus if Texas and ND do go to the B1G its not like they are going to be losing money in this situation.

Iowa State coach Paul Rhoads fresh off his latest conquest, got the worthiness query. Somehow, a program that just defeated Iowa-and one that is averaging more fans at home this season than eight schools in the Pac-12, seven in the ACC, five in the Big Ten, plus Oklahoma State and Texas Tech-doesn't cut muster in the major-college football world.
"We have so much to offer," Rhoads said. "Our first two games, the atmosphere and the environment in Jack Trice Stadium have just been electric. But that's just the football program. The rest of our athletic department, not to mention what we are as a top academic university...."

These are home attendances:

ISU: 56,085
Oklahoma State: 54,654
Texas Tech: 51,792
KSU: 50,292
KU: 48,084
Baylor: 43,753

Iowa State is a lot more respected than you "other fans" want to believe. Bowl representatives love ISU. Iowa State travels well. It adds pretty big conference games for Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota. Potentially for schools like Illinois and Wisconsin also. Its another game close in the midwest for opposing schools to travel too and vise versa.

[RustShack]

Clearly not the sexy or first pick, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they are added as a filler assuming they want to get to sixteen instead of fourteen if they choose to go past 12.

[chiefsfan987]

The posters on shaggybevo are saying that Texas is meeting with all the athletic department coaches to discuss realignment today.

Hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling they're telling them they're going to the Pac with OU/OSU/ and Tech.

[007]

Yeah, Texas is giving up their network that easily? I don't think so.

[SPchief]

PLEASE pick Me


I promise I'll wont dodge the ball when you throw at me


PLEASE pick me

FYP

[Smed1065]

FYP

I disagree but instead of a man, Ill BS around.

[Smed1065]

FYP

SPf-LOL

Suck preferred but fuck, Picked right 10 years ago.

SPF.

PS. Pick me so I can kick your azz while Clayton films.

Oh you and him was scared. NM. I payed for the tailgate but... talked shit.

Never showed, now its sober fight. You should have got bigger balls on the net before I sobered. LOL

[Saulbadguy]

what

[alnorth]

Iowa State is actually a perfect fit in every way except for the TV market, but Iowa wouldn't be the first school to have two teams in the same conference.

The problem is that a lot of these 2-school states (WA, OR, AZ in PAC 12; MI, IN in B1G) are in their conference because they always have been since ancient history. If everyone had to re-apply for their position, they wouldn't all make it back in.

[Smed1065]

Interesting rumor from the OU premium board. Supposedly the guy is credible and this is picking up steam around the interwebz. Take it for what it's worth.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=187&f=2639&t=7915231

LOL Premium board by nikky.

WTF.

I would not not trust that skinny fuck with Clay.

[Smed1065]

LOL Premium board by nikky.

WTF.

I would not not trust that skinny fuck with Clay.

Oh I did and it was BS.

Larry Johnson never had the playbook per clay and dick.

How does Nicks ass taste GoChiefs?

Warned you, told you and you was making a living is what you told me-LOL

Hows that working for you? Oh cash, fuck that.

[Saul Good]

Clearly not the sexy or first pick, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they are added as a filler assuming they want to get to sixteen instead of fourteen if they choose to go past 12.

The B1G doesn't need filler.

[Saulbadguy]

Are you talking about currently or history? Because Iowa State has a good football team this year, will have a good basketball team this year, are good in academics, and Iowa wont be the first team in the B1G to have two schools.

Iowa State is actually a perfect fit in every way except for the TV market, but Iowa wouldn't be the first school to have two teams in the same conference. Plus if Texas and ND do go to the B1G its not like they are going to be losing money in this situation.



These are home attendances:

ISU: 56,085
Oklahoma State: 54,654
Texas Tech: 51,792
KSU: 50,292
KU: 48,084
Baylor: 43,753

Iowa State is a lot more respected than you "other fans" want to believe. Bowl representatives love ISU. Iowa State travels well. It adds pretty big conference games for Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota. Potentially for schools like Illinois and Wisconsin also. Its another game close in the midwest for opposing schools to travel too and vise versa.

ISU had higher attendance when it hosted in state rivals Northern Iowa and Iowa in back to back games?

:hmmm:

[mikeyis4dcats.]

ISU had higher attendance when it hosted in state rivals Northern Iowa and Iowa in back to back games?

:hmmm:

someone besides KU is counting tickets "sold (or given away) as opposed to an actual turnstile count.

[eazyb81]

LOL Premium board by nikky.

WTF.

I would not not trust that skinny **** with Clay.

What in the fuck are you babbling about?

[eazyb81]

This is great. Everyone just throw every possible scenario against the wall.

GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
#ACC pressing for #Horns & #RedRaiders, while #Mizzou & #Jayhawks may join #Sooners & #OKState to #Pac12.

[Reerun_KC]

someone besides KU is counting tickets "sold (or given away) as opposed to an actual turnstile count.

Hey dont be jealous that we are starting our own decade of dominance.

:harumph:

[Mr. Laz]

per Espn

Texas/OU meeting: OU wants out, Texas trying to make financial concessions to keep OU in Big 12.

OU looking to Pac-12

[vailpass]

A

Iowa State is a lot more respected than you "other fans" want to believe. Bowl representatives love ISU. Iowa State travels well. It adds pretty big conference games for Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota. Potentially for schools like Illinois and Wisconsin also. Its another game close in the midwest for opposing schools to travel too and vise versa.

If you have to tell people how widely respected you are.......

Bowl representatives? LMAO

[vailpass]

per Espn

Texas/OU meeting: OU wants out, Texas trying to make financial concessions to keep OU in Big 12.

OU looking to Pac-12

Makes sense to me that UT would want OU to stay otherwise B12 is undesirable.

Can't picture OU abandoning long-time rivalries to travel to left coast to play in the pansy league.

[HemiEd]

Makes sense to me that UT would want OU to stay otherwise B12 is undesirable.

Can't picture OU abandoning long-time rivalries to travel to left coast to play in the pansy league.

Nebraska leaving, kind of changed the whole playing field IMO.

The OU Nebraska football rivalry was up there with about any and I think it sucks that it is over.

But, the real mistake was made, back when they let all the Texas schools in, and gave the Longhorns the keys to the conference.

I truly think this is going to be very interesting to see how it plays out.

[vailpass]

Nebraska leaving, kind of changed the whole playing field IMO.

The OU Nebraska football rivalry was up there with about any and I think it sucks that it is over.

But, the real mistake was made, back when they let all the Texas schools in, and gave the Longhorns the keys to the conference.

I truly think this is going to be very interesting to see how it plays out.

NU-OU definitely one of the classics. Would be cool if they still scheduled each other as non-con games.
Agreed, letting Bevo drive is the root of all problems here. NU said FU, aTm said good riddance, who's next?

Would rather have seen them tell UT to go screw and revert to the Big 8 teams.

[HemiEd]

NU-OU definitely one of the classics. Would be cool if they still scheduled each other as non-con games.
Agreed, letting Bevo drive is the root of all problems here. NU said FU, aTm said good riddance, who's next?

Would rather have seen them tell UT to go screw and revert to the Big 8 teams.

Exactly, but Nebraska leaving screws even that scenario up.

I guess I was unaware of the Big 8 really needed to expand at the time, I thought they had the world by the short hairs, but must have been wrong.

It looks like a mass exodus, but should be interesting.

[ChiefsCountry]

But, the real mistake was made, back when they let all the Texas schools in, and gave the Longhorns the keys to the conference.

Thats all on Oklahoma. They were the ones who sided with Texas on everything when the Big 12 was formed.

Not to mention if the original Big 8 expansion plans had went down, it would have just been Texas and A&M. They would have had less power for sure.

[eazyb81]

Thats all on Oklahoma. They were the ones who sided with Texas on everything when the Big 12 was formed.

Not to mention if the original Big 8 expansion plans had went down, it would have just been Texas and A&M. They would have had less power for sure.

You can't put it all on OU, everyone else voted them in too.

The simple fact is that the midwestern schools were really damn naive, and didn't realize Texas had taken over the conference until it was too late.

[ChiefsCountry]

You can't put it all on OU, everyone else voted them in too.

The simple fact is that the midwestern schools were really damn naive, and didn't realize Texas had taken over the conference until it was too late.

Not talking about admitting them to the conference. That was a good thing IMO and the right decision. Big 8 needed Dallas and Houston tv markets, and Texas needed the Big 8 schools. I was talking about the decisons after that from moving to the headquarters, comissioner and other decisons. OU went with Texas schools and Colorado was a bitch as well. If they could have kept the Big 8 voting block intact, they would have kept the power of Texas down.

[RustShack]

.

[DeezNutz]

.

It's probably just the Honey-Wagon.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Thats all on Oklahoma. They were the ones who sided with Texas on everything when the Big 12 was formed.

Not to mention if the original Big 8 expansion plans had went down, it would have just been Texas and A&M. They would have had less power for sure.

Correction: That's all on OU, NU and aTm. They sided with UT on every facet of tiered financial compensation until they realized they weren't getting what they wanted.

[HemiEd]

Not talking about admitting them to the conference. That was a good thing IMO and the right decision. Big 8 needed Dallas and Houston tv markets, and Texas needed the Big 8 schools. I was talking about the decisons after that from moving to the headquarters, comissioner and other decisons. OU went with Texas schools and Colorado was a bitch as well. If they could have kept the Big 8 voting block intact, they would have kept the power of Texas down.

That makes a lot of sense, as usual, I wasn't paying any attention at the time.

[kstater]

Correction: That's all on OU, NU and aTm. They sided with UT on every facet of tiered financial compensation until they realized they weren't getting what they wanted.

Yup, the Nubbs never had a problem with unequal revenue until they sucked balls and lost that TV appearance based revenue.

[Predarat]

The Big12 is 605.

[jAZ]

A great post on one of the boards I frequent had the following to share. It's from a trusted poster with ties to the Pac-12 office.


Oklahoma has an invite to Pac-12... OSU is not an automatic invite with the Sooners. OU realizes that OSU might only be a part of certain scenarios.

If OU comes and Texas balks, Mizzou and Kansas come into play. OSU and Tech are fillers.

There is some interest on a play for Rice as a 4th addition as this has been floated to UT. The Houston market and Rice's academics are intrugiuing as a partner for Texas.

The Texas to the ACC stuff is nonsense and a negotiation ploy being floated out by UT. The Pac 12 is the only option being considered by the UT.

Longhorn Network, it is no impediment as ESPN would gladly drop it in favor of more Pac 12-16 games in the current deal. Apparently it's a financial mess all around.


The dream scenario for Larry Scott is Texas, Oklahoma, Mizzou and Kansas. Four huge schools with 2 big football and 2 big hoops traditions. 3 AAU members and 5 big new TV markets along with 3 other good, medium sized markets.

Mizzou badly wants to be in the Big 10, but views themselves as more SEC compatitable with less travel there too.

Mizzou has talked to Scott and KU would do anything to make it happen as they want to stay West.

[DeezNutz]

A great post on one of the boards I frequent had the following to share. It's from a trusted poster with ties to the Pac-12 office.


Oklahoma has an invite to Pac-12... OSU is not an automatic invite with the Sooners. OU realizes that OSU might only be a part of certain scenarios.

If OU comes and Texas balks, Mizzou and Kansas come into play. OSU and Tech are fillers.

There is some interest on a play for Rice as a 4th addition as this has been floated to UT. The Houston market and Rice's academics are intrugiuing as a partner for Texas.

The Texas to the ACC stuff is nonsense and a negotiation ploy being floated out by UT. The Pac 12 is the only option being considered by the UT.

Longhorn Network, it is no impediment as ESPN would gladly drop it in favor of more Pac 12-16 games in the current deal. Apparently it's a financial mess all around.


The dream scenario for Larry Scott is Texas, Oklahoma, Mizzou and Kansas. Four huge schools with 2 big football and 2 big hoops traditions. 3 AAU members and 5 big new TV markets along with 3 other good, medium sized markets.

Mizzou badly wants to be in the Big 10, but views themselves as more SEC compatitable with less travel there too.

Mizzou has talked to Scott and KU would do anything to make it happen as they want to stay West.


Yeah, this is complete bullshit. Rice? LMAO. Academics aren't a factor in this equation. Not in the slightest bit.

[Mr. Laz]

Pac-16

<table class="table-grid table-size-970"><tbody><tr><th class="yellow-bg">North</th> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">California</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Stanford</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Washington</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Washington St.</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Oregon</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Oregon St.
Kansas
Missouri</td></tr><tr><th class="yellow-bg">

South
</th> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">USC</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Arizona St.</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Arizona</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">UCLA</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Colorado</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Utah
Texas
Oklahoma</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Pants]

Laz that makes no sense, lol.

I think it would be split up into East and West should it ever happen.

[jAZ]

Yeah, this is complete bullshit. Rice? LMAO. Academics aren't a factor in this equation. Not in the slightest bit.

It's not Rice on their own. It's Rice over Texas Tech if another Texas school is required to get UT into the Pac 12. And the direct quote includes "don't sleep on interest" and "in the minds of many in the Pac 12 league office". So don't blow that idea out of proportion. I'm trying not to quote the whole post because it's in the premium forum.

Academic stature is key part of this whole thing. As is media market/cable deals. Sports fans forget that athletic program budgets are dwarfed by the overall university budgets. And academic stature is the main thing in the President's offices.

[jAZ]

Pac-16

<table class="table-grid table-size-970"><tbody><tr><th class="yellow-bg">North</th> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">California</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Stanford</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Washington</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Washington St.</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Oregon</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Oregon St.
Kansas
Missouri</td></tr><tr><th class="yellow-bg">

South
</th> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">USC</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Arizona St.</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Arizona</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">UCLA</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle"> <td width="175px">Colorado</td> </tr><tr class="item-toggle odd"> <td width="175px">Utah
Texas
Oklahoma</td></tr></tbody></table>

It will be 4 pods. None of the teams want to lose recruiting visibiltiy that comes with an annual or bi-annual visit to California and/or Texas.

[Bewbies]

It will be 4 pods. None of the teams want to lose recruiting visibiltiy that comes with an annual or bi-annual visit to California and/or Texas.

I was gonna say, everyone is going to want a trip to Southern Cal and Texas each year...

They need to split up the rivals, USC/UCLA, ASU/ZONA, etc...

[eazyb81]

It will be 4 pods. None of the teams want to lose recruiting visibiltiy that comes with an annual or bi-annual visit to California and/or Texas.

I think it would be funny as hell if the Arizona schools, Colorado, and Utah are forced to form a division with the new Big 12 schools. Losing that California access would be terrible for those programs.

[Mr. Laz]

Laz that makes no sense, lol.

I think it would be split up into East and West should it ever happen.
i just figured they wouldn't want to shake up the entire conference. I think last year when they were talking about adding teams they talked about not wanting to break up certain teams.

[alnorth]

It will be 4 pods. None of the teams want to lose recruiting visibiltiy that comes with an annual or bi-annual visit to California and/or Texas.

Yep, 4 pods is what makes the most sense with the politics of everyone wanting to go to SoCal. Each pod plays everyone from another pod, rotated in 3 year cycles, and each pod plays one team in the other two pods. That would be 8 games, leaving room for 3 non-con games.

The championship game would be between the winners of the 2 2-pod groups that played each other that year. The schedules would be unbalanced, but that is the price you pay for letting everyone have major access to SoCal.

For basketball, you'd just double-round-robin your own pod home and away, and play everybody else once. That is 18 games, which is close to a standard conference schedule.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Rice? I agree that it's a fine academic institution.

They averaged about 12k per game. Yea...no.

[Titty Meat]

Rice? I agree that it's a fine academic institution.

They averaged about 12k per game. Yea...no.

Rice is no Eastern Kentucky.

[DeezNutz]

It's not Rice on their own. It's Rice over Texas Tech if another Texas school is required to get UT into the Pac 12. And the direct quote includes "don't sleep on interest" and "in the minds of many in the Pac 12 league office". So don't blow that idea out of proportion. I'm trying not to quote the whole post because it's in the premium forum.

Academic stature is key part of this whole thing. As is media market/cable deals. Sports fans forget that athletic program budgets are dwarfed by the overall university budgets. And academic stature is the main thing in the President's offices.

You've seen that Nebraska joined the Big 10, right?

Academics? LMAO. And this is why the Pac-10 admitted the premium academic institution of...wait for it...Utah, which is a long-standing public ivy.

[RustShack]

Nebraska was an AAU(?) school when they applied. So yes they fit into the academics when they were accepted.

[Saul Good]

Nebraska was an AAU(?) school when they applied. So yes they fit into the academics when they were accepted.

It was pretty well known that they were not long for that world even then.

[HolyHandgernade]

The ACC idea is actually picking up some steam. Apparently there is a huge falling out between UT and OU. UT wants some sort of midwest pod to go to the ACC. Them, Tech, KU and MU is one proposal, a Texas quartet of UT, Baylor, Tech and Rice might be another. If they really want to put a dent in PAC expansion, they might consider MU, KU and KSU, the later used as leverage. That means the PAC would essentially be left with picking up the state of Oklahoma. Not at all what they were hoping. They want either the Texas markets or the Missouri markets to add to OU and OSU.

This means the KU-MU duo is actually pretty powerful. More so for MU because they can also play the SEC. This might even raise the interest of the B1G, who knows?

One thing is clear, if A&M, OU and Texas all go to separate conferences, it opens up all kinds of opportunities for KU and MU, also possibly KSU.

[alnorth]

One thing is clear, if A&M, OU and Texas all go to separate conferences, it opens up all kinds of opportunities for KU and MU, also possibly KSU.

Thats one thing that is encouraging to me, if the south scatters to the winds, then suddenly KU might be caught in a bit of a bidding war and have some leverage. They don't have to worry about MU, but if they have a choice between 2 or 3 good choices, maybe they can ask them to accept KSU and see who says "ok, fine" first. Not because they are tied to KSU, but because they want to, and can.

[Saul Good]

I've heard that things between OU and UT are close to irrepairable. Evidently, Texas wanted solidarity with OU, and then they turned around and tried to broker a deal with the B!G and Notre Dame. OU got pissed off and is going their own way.

[Setsuna]

Wow TAMU better come to the SEC. Baylor can go screw themselves.

[alnorth]

Wow TAMU better come to the SEC. Baylor can go screw themselves.

That is not in doubt, so don't worry about it. TA&M has made it utterly clear that if they have to, they will go independent for the 2012-13 academic year and then join the SEC in the Fall of 2013.

[Crush]

Wow TAMU better come to the SEC. Baylor can go screw themselves.

Baylor is fucked and they know it. Their mooching days are over.

[Setsuna]

That is not in doubt, so don't worry about it. TA&M has made it utterly clear that if they have to, they will go independent for the 2012-13 academic year and then join the SEC in the Fall of 2013.
Very awesome. I really do believe Texas will have to go independent. No conference will want to deal with that sports channel foolishness.

Baylor is ****ed and they know it. Their mooching days are over.
I don't see what they are so worried about. Just how much money do they stand to lose?

[Trevo_410]

id be fine with any of the 3 conferences as long as texas doesn't follow

[jAZ]

You've seen that Nebraska joined the Big 10, right?

Academics? LMAO. And this is why the Pac-10 admitted the premium academic institution of...wait for it...Utah, which is a long-standing public ivy.

At the time they were approved into the Big 10, Nebraska was a member of the prestigious AAU. I didn't know anything about the AAU until I entered a PhD program myself, but it is a huge deal in academic circles.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-13/sports/ct-spt-0614-aau-big-ten-expansion--20100613_1_aau-nebraska-chancellor-harvey-perlman-big-ten-members

Nebraska has it all to attract Big Ten, most importantly AAU membership
Every school in the conference is a member of the elite group of research universities
June 13, 2010|By Chris Hine, Tribune reporter
LINCOLN, Neb. — The passionate fan base, storied football program and geographic proximity to the rest of the conference — all these factors helped make Nebraska an attractive candidate for the Big Ten's expansion plans.

But Nebraska had one other criterion vital to Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany and the conference's presidents and chancellors: membership in the AAU.



No, not the Amateur Athletic Union, which is commonly associated with youth basketball, but rather the Association of American Universities.

"All the Big Ten schools are AAU members," Nebraska Chancellor Harvey Perlman said. "I doubt that our application would've been accepted had we not been a member of the organization."

So what is the AAU, and why is it so important to the Big Ten members?

It's a group of 63 elite research universities in the U.S. and Canada. Membership is through invitation only, and the group's primary focus is evaluating and developing the top graduate programs, not necessarily undergrad programs, spokesman Barry Toiv said.

"(Membership) is generally considered a sign that a research university has arrived as a top research university," Toiv said.

The AAU is basically a facilitator for collaboration among these universities, a venue where the top officials from member schools gather to exchange ideas and discuss the prevalent issues in education, something that's critical to college presidents, Toiv said.

Now that Nebraska will be joining the Big Ten, Perlman said that will make avenues of collaboration with the other Big Ten schools a little easier to travel.

"The Big Ten for a long time has been known for being the only conference that has really had a strong academic component through the Committee on Institutional Cooperation," Perlman said. "Right now, in research, in trying to solve the problems and challenges that face our country, it requires big research projects with our interdisciplinary teams with a lot of folks focusing from various perspectives on the issues.

"The more institutions you can get together in a real collaborative way, the greater likelihood it is that you'll put the right teams together."

Perlman added that Penn State's seamless integration into the conference from a research perspective helped make his decision to switch conferences easy.

Plus, AAU membership is crucial for recruiting elite faculty. It's a marker of which schools are and aren't important.

The Big Ten is the only Division-I conference that can say all of its members belong to the AAU. It's a valuable feather in the Big Ten's cap.

Most schools that have been mentioned as possible expansion candidates already belong to the AAU, including Missouri, Pittsburgh, Maryland, Syracuse and Rutgers. Missouri seems to be out of luck at the moment. Texas is an AAU member but according to multiple reports is deciding whether to join the Pac-10.


Notre Dame and Connecticut are not AAU members but would like to be. So in the hubbub over who else might be invited to join the Big Ten, know that if a school has the black mark of "not being an AAU member," it likely isn't by choice.

"It is perhaps the most elite organization in higher education," Connecticut spokesman Michael Kirk said. "You'd probably be hard-pressed to find a major research university that didn't want to be a member of the AAU."

In the case of Notre Dame, the school has a sterling reputation for its undergraduate education. But only in recent years under President John Jenkins has there been a significant push to become a leading research and graduate university. Notre Dame would love to be an AAU member to solidify its status.

"As you know, membership in the AAU is by invitation only, and to date, we have not been invited," Notre Dame spokesman Dennis Brown said. "We do hope, however, that the progress we are making as a research institution will lead to an invitation in the future."

Notre Dame's lack of AAU membership didn't stop the Big Ten from trying to grab it in 1999, and it probably won't be a hurdle this time either, given all the other strengths Notre Dame brings to the table.

As for the conference's newest member, it's excited to receive the revenue generated by the Big Ten Network and the chance to play in the Big Ten. But its chancellor can't wait to sit down with other conference members and talk about research.

"I'm sure they'll have strengths that'll fill gaps we have, and we may fill gaps that other institutions have," Perlman said. "It'll certainly elevate what we're able to do, and that's not just important to the institutions, it's important to the country trying to solve problems."


They lost it shortly after the vote and the Big 10 was pissed.

[jAZ]

Rice? I agree that it's a fine academic institution.

They averaged about 12k per game. Yea...no.

That was the typical UA fan's reaction to the post too. Like I said, if a 2nd Texas school is needed to land Texas, Rice is being discussed by some in the Pac-10 office. And it's not initially about attendance, it's about regional cable networks first. And it's a long-shot.

[DeezNutz]

At the time they were approved into the Big 10, Nebraska was a member of the prestigious AAU. I didn't know anything about the AAU until I entered a PhD program myself, but it is a huge deal in academic circles.

..............................................................................................

They lost it shortly after the vote and the Big 10 was pissed.

Correct. And Saul addressed this. By the way, how would quoting the Lincoln Tribune validate anything relative to UNL?

Better qualify the bold. Certain factions in the Big 10 (read: the academics, who were never very important in the entire process) were pissed.

It's all about money. Nothing more, nothing less. People bring up the other bullshit to try to fool themselves and make the whole thing appear more legitimate.

[RustShack]

Texas to the ACC isn't happening. That is just them bluffing to Oklahoma on their bluff to go Pac.

[jAZ]

It was pretty well known that they were not long for that world even then.

That's not exactly true. They have a huge technicality that hurts them. A big chunck of their Ag research and all of their MedSchool research is excluded from their AAU numbers. And despite that, Nebraska is right on the fringe of AAU qualification even today. It's absurd to argue Nebraska as an example that academics don't matter. It's just an opinion rooted in sport talk radio and a general ignorance (which I also had until recently) about the critical role that research plays in universities.

I mean, even at UNL the research budget is 2x the athletic department budget. And the athletic department is but 10% of the total budget.

It's just absurd to suggest that academics aren't a factor.

It's not the #1 factor, it's a #1a or #2 factor.

[jAZ]

Correct. And Saul addressed this. By the way, how would quoting the Lincoln Tribune validate anything relative to UNL?

Better qualify the bold. Certain factions in the Big 10 (read: the academics, who were never very important in the entire process) were pissed.

It's all about money. Nothing more, nothing less. People bring up the other bullshit to try to fool themselves and make the whole thing appear more legitimate.

It's the Chicago Tribune.

And I fully understand why a sports fan outside of the day-to-day operations would overstate the value of the athletic department. It's the lense that sports fans see the University though.

But trust me, you are wrong. Completely wrong.

It's a basic function of math.

The top universities don't just want to be seen as academically elite for the sake of reputation. Research and tuition are now the lifeblood of a University. The contribution from the athletic department, even among the very biggest programs, pales in comparison.

Take UNL for example. Their athletic programs generates a profit. Approximately $10M/year of their $80M/year program goes back to the UNL general fund from the Athletic Department.

Compare that to UNL's $132M research budget. Of that, typically 33% is "overhead", the university's cut to cover general fund expenses... that's $43M.

Even at UNL, research generates 4x more revenue back to the University.

If you look at a school like Arizona, the numbers are even more dramatic. They have a $600M/year research budget and only a $42M/year athletics budget. The same 33% holds and the athletics department generates even less (if anything) back to the university.

It's more likely a $200M vs $0-$5M ratio.

The view that sports fans have of the role of sports money is so skewed its remarkable.

$200M vs (at best) $5M.

[CrazyPhuD]

Whew that was close....I wondered why this thread was even created, till I peaked inside the old one. If I had stayed any longer than I did I would have caught teh AIDS.

[eazyb81]

Florida State to the SEC? Hmmm.

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/09/fsu-forms-expansion-committee/

I've heard some insiders say the SEC will be the first major conference to 16 teams. Could they add A&M, Mizzou, FSU, and Virginia Tech/West Virginia in one fell swoop?

It has never made sense to me that the SEC would not want FSU just because it doesn't add to their footprint. FSU is a powerhouse program and Florida is a huge state for talent, it makes sense to add another big-time program there and lock up the state.

[Lzen]

jAZ,
I'm still not sure why you are arguing what you are arguing. WTF would an athletic conference care what money is in a candidate's research budget? How does that help the athletic conference. As we all know, money drives the world. And I doubt those research dollars that school gets is being given to the athletic conference.

[jAZ]

jAZ,
I'm still not sure why you are arguing what you are arguing. WTF would an athletic conference care what money is in a candidate's research budget? How does that help the athletic conference. As we all know, money drives the world. And I doubt those research dollars that school gets is being given to the athletic conference.

You have it backwards. At it's core, the question isn't about what helps the athletic conference. That assumed the Universities exists for their football teams. It's the opposite.

It's a question of what benefits the University as a whole. I read an SI article a few years ago talking about the rebranding of the Pac-10 just after Larry Scott arrived. It was interesting and helped me realize how important the associated images are to the brand of a University.

At the top levels (President, Chancellor, Board of Regents), just like at Coke and Apple, brand is the most valuable asset the organization owns. It's about recruiting the top talent (students and faculty) which drive the quality of the acadmics, the rankings, which in turn drive the research budgets which in turn drive the overhead generated from research which in turn has a massive budgetary impact.

Research, today, is MUCH more important to the university than sports. My advisor teaches a class for incoming PhD students. He founded my Department at the UA 40 years ago. Last week he asked us why research is so important to the University. Then went into the explanation of the 33% overhead calculation.

But it didn't really click until he explained the history.

At the UA, back when he came 40 years ago, state tax dollars paid for 95% of the University budget. Today it's down to about 15%. The rest of the money is generated from 2 places... higher tuition and research funding.

Higher tuition generally makes it harder to attract students. Attracting talented students is key to attracting talented faculty (it goes both ways) which combined are how you attract more research funding.

That's why research is so important.

And back to the brand of the Pac-10...

SME's report concluded that to its target audiences to the east and west, the Pac-10 needed to exude West Coast-cool. It needs to remind people that the Pac-10 footprint is home to innovators such as Google, Nike, Microsoft and Apple. It needs to remind people that the Pac-10 is home to some of the nation's elite universities. It also needs to remind people that the Pac-10 wins -- a lot. The league has claimed 388 NCAA titles, more than 150 more than the second-place Big Ten.


That's not only the needs of the conference's sports teams. It's the same need of the individual Universities. It's brand is a big part of the thought process of why students attend a University.

[eazyb81]

You still did not answer his question.

Yes, we all can understand the difference between research budgets and athletic budgets, but I have yet to be convinced that an athletic conference affiliation has any direct impact on current or future university research funding.

Vandy and Florida are excellent universities with major research funding, despite the fact their athletic teams are in the SEC. Arizona State and Washington State are pedestrian schools with minimal research funding, even though their athletic teams are members of the PAC-12.

[HolyHandgernade]

To be a super conference you need three basic things:

1. You need at least 3, preferably 4 major football powers: FSU, Miami, Virginia Tech and Texas qualify

2. You need major markets: Raleigh Durham, Miami, other parts of Florida, Boston, the Beltway, Texas and Missouri qualify

3. You need good supplemental football programs: Missouri, Boston College, Maryland, NC St, Clemson and Georgia Tech qualify

That's all you really need, but here's the kicker:

4. There's a whole second half to the academic year and it does actually create quite a bit of buzz and money. UNC-Duke is the crown jewel for ESPN basketball and they awarded the ACC a big basketball contract just for it. Now you're going to add Kansas with Texas, MU and another probably decent basketball school on top of it? That's why they're talking about this as the richest conference deal yet and why nobody is going to leave it. It fortifies the ACC. If you make more money and have the security, why do you want to run your program through the gauntlet of SEC football? Plus, you get to keep your high academic standing by getting at least 3 more AAU schools into your conference.

That's the trifecta right there: Great football, great basketball, superior academic reputation.

I thought the Texas to ACC idea was just a ploy at first, but this idea could actually work.

[Saulbadguy]

To be a super conference you need three basic things:

1. You need at least 3, preferably 4 major football powers: FSU, Miami, Virginia Tech and Texas qualify

2. You need major markets: Raleigh Durham, Miami, other parts of Florida, Boston, the Beltway, Texas and Missouri qualify

3. You need good supplemental football programs: Missouri, Boston College, Maryland, NC St, Clemson and Georgia Tech qualify

That's all you really need, but here's the kicker:

4. There's a whole second half to the academic year and it does actually create quite a bit of buzz and money. UNC-Duke is the crown jewel for ESPN basketball and they awarded the ACC a big basketball contract just for it. Now you're going to add Kansas with Texas, MU and another probably decent basketball school on top of it? That's why they're talking about this as the richest conference deal yet and why nobody is going to leave it. It fortifies the ACC. If you make more money and have the security, why do you want to run your program through the gauntlet of SEC football? Plus, you get to keep your high academic standing by getting at least 3 more AAU schools into your conference.

That's the trifecta right there: Great football, great basketball, superior academic reputation.

I thought the Texas to ACC idea was just a ploy at first, but this idea could actually work.

You never cease to disappoint.

[eazyb81]

LHN is the elephant in the room though. It caused the destruction of the Big 12, and if left unchanged it will pull the ACC apart too. I don't think UT is willing to change it.

[HolyHandgernade]

You never cease to disappoint.

Are you not entertained! :D

[HolyHandgernade]

LHN is the elephant in the room though. It caused the destruction of the Big 12, and if left unchanged it will pull the ACC apart too. I don't think UT is willing to change it.

That's why ESPN, which has the sole contract with the ACC, will make it worth the ACC's while if they accommodate it.

[eazyb81]

That's why ESPN, which has the sole contract with the ACC, will make it worth the ACC's while if they accommodate it.

Sure, but from a Mizzou fan's perspective, I absolutely do not want to go to a conference where the rules are bent from the beginning to allow UT to do whatever benefits them. That is exactly what caused the demise of the Big 12.

[Mr. Laz]

LHN is the elephant in the room though. It caused the destruction of the Big 12, and if left unchanged it will pull the ACC apart too. I don't think UT is willing to change it.
that's the reason for all the fires in Texas, even GOD thinks that UT sucks and is trying to burn it to the ground.

[LiveSteam]

that's the reason for all the fires in Texas, even GOD thinks that UT sucks and is trying to burn it to the ground.

I have my hopes about this

[Lzen]

Sure, but from a Mizzou fan's perspective, I absolutely do not want to go to a conference where the rules are bent from the beginning to allow UT to do whatever benefits them. That is exactly what caused the demise of the Big 12.

I agree with you on this. And I hope the same for KU.

[DeezNutz]

It's the Chicago Tribune.

And I fully understand why a sports fan outside of the day-to-day operations would overstate the value of the athletic department. It's the lense that sports fans see the University though.

But trust me, you are wrong. Completely wrong.

It's a basic function of math.

The top universities don't just want to be seen as academically elite for the sake of reputation. Research and tuition are now the lifeblood of a University. The contribution from the athletic department, even among the very biggest programs, pales in comparison.

Take UNL for example. Their athletic programs generates a profit. Approximately $10M/year of their $80M/year program goes back to the UNL general fund from the Athletic Department.

Compare that to UNL's $132M research budget. Of that, typically 33% is "overhead", the university's cut to cover general fund expenses... that's $43M.

Even at UNL, research generates 4x more revenue back to the University.

If you look at a school like Arizona, the numbers are even more dramatic. They have a $600M/year research budget and only a $42M/year athletics budget. The same 33% holds and the athletics department generates even less (if anything) back to the university.

It's more likely a $200M vs $0-$5M ratio.

The view that sports fans have of the role of sports money is so skewed its remarkable.

$200M vs (at best) $5M.

Here's a decent explanation for why people covet the Big 10: http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/6/10/1511330/big-ten-expansion-and-the-cic-are

Research in most departments generates zero dollars for the university as a whole. It does increase the overall prestige and marketability, thus ostensibly increasing enrollment, which is the major driver of budgets.

I don't believe anyone is arguing that athletics (primarily) fund an institution.

[BWillie]

I really don't care anymore. Until something happens, I just. Don't. Care.

[HolyHandgernade]

Sure, but from a Mizzou fan's perspective, I absolutely do not want to go to a conference where the rules are bent from the beginning to allow UT to do whatever benefits them. That is exactly what caused the demise of the Big 12.

OK, but you do realize they already have that same setup in the SEC, right. University of Florida has their own network. If you believe the rumors, the B!G might bend their rules if it means they could get Texas and Notre Dame. That basically leaves the PAC where everything is shared, but I've heard lots of MU fans say they don't like the time zone spread.

Are you saying it just Texas, then? Would you not go to the B1G if Texas was one of the other schools? Why would you join an academically inferior, athletically tougher, and potentially less payout SEC? Tell me more about this "Mizzou perspective".

[LiveSteam]

Fuck ND to the big 10!
Big 10 wont bend rules for Texas either. Thats just not going to happen.
Now if OU & TU wanna join & play by the same rules as the rest of the Big 10 schools.
Im all for it. Cant be just 1.they both need to join the Big 10 or forget it. Ive tried two weekends in a row to cheer for Big 10 schools playing out of conference games. IT SUCKS!

[Reaper16]

OK, but you do realize they already have that same setup in the SEC, right.
False.

[Titty Meat]

**** ND to the big 10!
Big 10 wont bend rules for Texas either. Thats just not going to happen.
Now if OU & TU wanna join & play by the same rules as the rest of the Big 10 schools.
Im all for it. Cant be just 1.they both need to join the Big 10 or forget it. Ive tried two weekends in a row to cheer for Big 10 schools playing out of conference games. IT SUCKS!

Notre Dame will be in the Big 10 in a few years.

[kstater]

Florida State to the SEC? Hmmm.

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/09/fsu-forms-expansion-committee/

I've heard some insiders say the SEC will be the first major conference to 16 teams. Could they add A&M, Mizzou, FSU, and Virginia Tech/West Virginia in one fell swoop?

It has never made sense to me that the SEC would not want FSU just because it doesn't add to their footprint. FSU is a powerhouse program and Florida is a huge state for talent, it makes sense to add another big-time program there and lock up the state.

FSU will never join the SEC. Florida won't allow it, ever.

[patteeu]

I'd like to see Mizzou go to the same conference that the Longhorns end up in. Double good if the Longhorns agree to a more egalitarian funding model.

[BigMeatballDave]

Notre Dame will be in the Big 10 in a few years.
Yep. I'm assuming the only reason they aren't now is due to their contract with NBC.

[eazyb81]

OK, but you do realize they already have that same setup in the SEC, right. University of Florida has their own network. If you believe the rumors, the B!G might bend their rules if it means they could get Texas and Notre Dame. That basically leaves the PAC where everything is shared, but I've heard lots of MU fans say they don't like the time zone spread.

Are you saying it just Texas, then? Would you not go to the B1G if Texas was one of the other schools? Why would you join an academically inferior, athletically tougher, and potentially less payout SEC? Tell me more about this "Mizzou perspective".

Schools selling their third tier rights is nothing new and has been around forever. That is completely different than ESPN backing and funding LHN, a channel for UT's rights, when they also own the Big 12's first tier rights. This creates massive issues, especially when the Big 12 divides first and second tier revenue based on tv appearances (sec splits this equally). ESPN has a direct incentive to now push UT over other conference schools and can push typical UT first tier games to LHN, impacting the revenue of other schools. The whole thing is a very slippery slope that no secure conference will accept in its current form.

[kstater]

Schools selling their third tier rights is nothing new and has been around forever. That is completely different than ESPN backing and funding LHN, a channel for UT's rights, when they also own the Big 12's first tier rights. This creates massive issues, especially when the Big 12 divides first and second tier revenue based on tv appearances (sec splits this equally). ESPN has a direct incentive to now push UT over other conference schools and can push typical UT first tier games to LHN, impacting the revenue of other schools. The whole thing is a very slippery slope that no secure conference will accept in its current form.

You realize that the LHN is for 3rd tier right?

[ChiefsCountry]

FSU will never join the SEC. Florida won't allow it, ever.

Actually Florida pushed for FSU to join the SEC when they expanded last time.

[jAZ]

Here's a decent explanation for why people covet the Big 10: http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/6/10/1511330/big-ten-expansion-and-the-cic-are

Research in most departments generates zero dollars for the university as a whole. It does increase the overall prestige and marketability, thus ostensibly increasing enrollment, which is the major driver of budgets.

I don't believe anyone is arguing that athletics (primarily) fund an institution.

Where is anyone in this thread saying that schools want to join the Big 10 because it will generate them more research dollars.

Again, that's the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Universities in the Big 10 and the Pac 12 hold their collective brands high. And that the academic reputations of UCLA, USC, Arizona, Stanford, Colorado, Cal and most of the Big 10 is a factor in deciding which teams they let in.

This discussion has nothing to do with CIC claiming they can get Nebraska or Notre Dame more research funding. The article suggests that bogus. I believe it. But it has nothing to do with this discussion.

And to the second point that the English Department (as well as possibly the the majority of departments on any given campus) generates zero dollars in research funding... has nothing to do with anything. It certainly doesn't make the UA's $600M in research funding any smaller or the UA's Athletic depatment's $50M any bigger.

[whoman69]

Notre Dame will be in the Big 10 in a few years.

Not going to happen. They are happy with the tons of money they make on their own and like the connection to the Big East in football. No way the Big Ten gives on their own network, the other schools would be in an uproar.

[DeezNutz]

Where is anyone in this thread saying that schools want to join the Big 10 because it will generate them more research dollars.

Again, that's the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Universities in the Big 10 and the Pac 12 hold their collective brands high. And that the academic reputations of UCLA, USC, Arizona, Stanford, Colorado, Cal and most of the Big 10 is a factor in deciding which teams they let in.

This discussion has nothing to do with CIC claiming they can get Nebraska or Notre Dame more research funding. The article suggests that bogus. I believe it. But it has nothing to do with this discussion.

And to the second point that the English Department (as well as possibly the the majority of departments on any given campus) generates zero dollars in research funding... has nothing to do with anything. It certainly doesn't make the UA's $600M in research funding any smaller or the UA's Athletic depatment's $50M any bigger.

At this point, I have no idea what you're trying to argue. Let's get to this specific question: how are the funds for research generated?

It seems like you're conflating quite a few points.

[eazyb81]

You realize that the LHN is for 3rd tier right?

Did you even read my post? Of course it is for third rights, but since ESPN also owns the leagues's first rights, the strong possibility exists for the lines to get blurred. I.e. The rumor that ESPN threatened Texas Tech with less first tier tv appearances in the future if they didn't agree to have their game against UT on LHN. I have to say it is hilarious watching some ku and KSU fans white knight LHN.

[RustShack]

Bobby Burton is reporting OU/Texas been running distraction with Pac/ACC talk. Officials with Louisville, Cinci & Pitt have been meeting with the Big XII

[RustShack]

Can the Big 12 pull off the year's biggest comeback?

Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton is hopeful the Big 12 can stay together after Texas A&M leaves.

By Orlin Wagner, AP

Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton is hopeful the Big 12 can stay together after Texas A&M leaves.

Enlarge

By Orlin Wagner, AP

Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton is hopeful the Big 12 can stay together after Texas A&M leaves.

Even as Oklahoma weighs an exit that could push the distressed conference toward extinction, the chairman of its board of directors says he has gained confidence in the past week that it can survive.

Brady Deaton is heartened, he said, that OU and others are looking before they leap. "I think this period of just a bit more calmness and reasoning . . . makes us all feel as if the various issues can be dealt with in a rational way and in a way that's in the best interests of each of our institutions and the Big 12 - and of other leagues around the country," the Missouri chancellor told USA TODAY on Wednesday.

"I'm not Pollyannaish about it. I'm not naïve. But I'm looking at the factors that are important to the future of the athletics and the academics of institutions in the Big 12. And as we all assess them, my hopes are that more and more will conclude, as I have, that a continuation of a strong Big 12 is in all of our best interests right now.

"I am hopeful, let me say."

He didn't speculate beyond that on the league's chances of survival. It's teetering, with Texas A&M pointed toward the Southeastern Conference and multiple Big 12 officials telling USA TODAY this week that Oklahoma is conditionally pursuing a move to the Pacific 12.

Those officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the Sooners are exploring the financial parameters of Pac-12 membership and where they'd fit in its divisional alignment, as well as how open the league is to accepting them - almost certainly with Oklahoma State in tow. Texas, in turn, is weighing its own options, though the Longhorns have made it clear they prefer Big 12 preservation.

Nebraska and Colorado opted out of the conference a year ago. The Big 12 seemingly weathered that, but was destabilized anew by Texas A&M's pending departure.

"It's not what I think any of us want as a characteristic of our conference," said Deaton, a former agriculture economics and sociology professor who became Missouri's chancellor in 2004. "We've worked hard for a stable, strong, aggressive, fast-moving Big 12, and spent the past year looking at new ways in which we can be a more exciting league, one that's stronger in all dimensions, going beyond athletic competition and beginning to think about the ways in which we could strengthen ourselves in academic cooperation.

"To have that dialogue interrupted or altered by the range of considerations going on today certainly is a concern to all of us."

Chances of preserving the Big 12, slim or otherwise, hinge on somehow re-stabilizing the conference and convincing member schools that it's for good.

"That's the challenge that the Big 12 board has in front of it," Deaton said. "I think we have a pretty good understanding of the various tools and structures that would lead to that, but we don't have them all resolved."

He told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he expected a decision from Oklahoma on its future within the next two weeks.

"I just have had an understanding that within 10 days to two weeks we were likely to have some indication of where things stood, but with no firm deadlines there," Deaton told the newspaper. "We're being patient and working together, and certainly right now we're in a little bit of a position where we need for Oklahoma to give us a sense of what they're thinking about and take it from there."

[RustShack]

The current upheaval is in the hands of those dentists and eye doctors and -- oh, here's a good one -- a Broadway and London theater producer.

Just a guess, but I'm betting Oklahoma's A. Max Weitzenhoffer cares a lot more about the West End than the end the Big 12.


It would be shocking if the first communication between Oklahoma and Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott was a call from one of these state appointees.


"Kind of alarming when you think about it," said a Big 12 source close to the situation. "The future of college athletics is going to be altered by these volunteer board members who are dentists, convenience store operators and the like. That's amazing."

It's no longer about geographic or (puh-leaze) academic fits. You're either a market or a brand. Nebraska is a brand. Georgia Tech, rumored to be a hot property, brings along the Atlanta market to some enterprising raider.


Southern California, Texas and Michigan are both. Woe to Baylor, Kansas State and Iowa State, which are neither. Good to know some university's future is being decided by a media consultant analyzing its Q rating.



The biggest frustration here is that no one seems to want to actually go through with it. Regents take note: Bevo isn't the only creature being led around by a ring in its nose. I talked to a Pac-12 source this week who told me there are at least eight conference presidents who are against expansion. The SEC presidents would have preferred to stand pat, but when Angelina Jolie, er, A&M knocks on your door you don't turn her/it away.

By 2012, the state of Texas could be home to schools in the Pac-12, SEC, Big East and Conference USA. That's not a football culture, that's an appetizer plate. Friday Night Lights being replaced by Saturday Afternoon Cable Listings.



There would be no center, anywhere. Silicon Valley would be as close to big-time football as Death Valley. The SEC's footprint would stomp the yard. The Pac-12 could be in ... Kansas. Nothing says Tobacco Road like Texas vs. Wake Forest.

This is what the dentist and eye doc are about to give us. Wonder if they know, or care.

[HemiEd]

Bobby Burton is reporting OU/Texas been running distraction with Pac/ACC talk. Officials with Louisville, Cinci & Pitt have been meeting with the Big XIIWow, now that would be something.

[Mr. Laz]

so we would go to 11 teams with Cincy And Pitt?

why?

Unless adding Cincy and Pitt would help bring in BYU for the 12th ...


Cincy/Pitt are east and BYU is west, even further travel.

[patteeu]

so we would go to 11 teams with Cincy And Pitt?

why?

Unless adding Cincy and Pitt would help bring in BYU for the 12th ...


Cincy/Pitt are east and BYU is west, even further travel.

The article mentioned Louisville in addition to Cincy and Pitt. Which makes for better geography and basketball, I guess.

[RustShack]

so we would go to 11 teams with Cincy And Pitt?

why?

Unless adding Cincy and Pitt would help bring in BYU for the 12th ...


Cincy/Pitt are east and BYU is west, even further travel.

? We started at 12. We lost two last year. One this year. Adding three gets you back up to 12... not 11...

[RustShack]

So it looks like if we want 12; Louisville, Pitt, and Cinci are the choices. I think thats also assuming WVU goes to the SEC with aTm. Otherwise we just add BYU to get back up to 10.

[Mr. Laz]

? We started at 12. We lost two last year. One this year. Adding three gets you back up to 12... not 11...
yea, i just didn't see a 3rd team

lost Neb,Colo and A&M

adding cincy and pitt

:shrug:

all i was saying

what do Louisville,Pitt and Cincy bring to the financial table?

[RustShack]

yea, i just didn't see a 3rd team

lost Neb,Colo and A&M

adding cincy and pitt

:shrug:

all i was saying

what do Louisville,Pitt and Cincy bring to the financial table?

Stability, so that we keep the current contract we have which is good money for all the schools. Not to mention the first tier contract that will be signed in a few years that potentially makes all 12(or ten) schools some of the highest paid in the nation.

[Reerun_KC]

Pittsburg and Syracuse are applying for the ACC...

[Infidel Goat]

Pittsburg and Syracuse are applying for the ACC...

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32035225

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Pittsburgh and Syracuse submitted letters of application to the Atlantic Coast Conference and are "likely gone" from the Big East, high ranking ACC and Big East officials told CBSSports.com.

Pittsburgh and Syracuse independently submitted letters of application to the ACC, a league source told CBSSports.com.

"There is no scenario where a president applies to a league and isn't admitted," a Big East official told CBSSports.com.

Me:

The ACC also upped the buyout clause for schools in conference to $20 million, so it looks like they are up to 14 teams. Most likely suspects to finish it off at 16 teams include UConn, Rutgers, Villanova (if football upgraded) with Notre Dame and possibly Texas (with a partner?) as outside possibilities.

Good gets for the ACC...

[Infidel Goat]

Pittsburg and Syracuse are applying for the ACC...

I think that this increases the odds that the Big 10 will come calling MU and KU. If the ACC sticks together and takes some of the teams from the northeast, it likely means that the Big 10 has to look in the other direction.

Just my $.02...

[|Zach|]

I think that this increases the odds that the Big 10 will come calling MU and KU. If the ACC sticks together and takes some of the teams from the northeast, it likely means that the Big 10 has to look in the other direction.

Just my $.02...

LMAO

[RustShack]

B1G would add ISU over KU and/or KState. None are their top options.

[alnorth]

LMAO

Honestly, if Pitt and Syracuse are gone, it changes things dramatically for the Big 10, unless they are dead-set against 16. It is not as easy to come up with a 16 team Big 10 without Kansas than it was yesterday.

UND, Mizzou, then what? Rutgers?

[DeezNutz]

Honestly, if Pitt and Syracuse are gone, it changes things dramatically for the Big 10, unless they are dead-set against 16. It is not as easy to come up with a 16 team Big 10 without Kansas than it was yesterday.

UND, Mizzou, then what? Rutgers?

Iowa State.

[Mr. Laz]

Honestly, if Pitt and Syracuse are gone, it changes things dramatically for the Big 10, unless they are dead-set against 16. It is not as easy to come up with a 16 team Big 10 without Kansas than it was yesterday.

UND, Mizzou, then what? Rutgers?Don't waste your breath ... Zach is the ultimate Mizzou troll and there is nothing you can say to ever get him to admit anyone would want KU for any reason.

[tk13]

If they are going to start poaching the Big East, I think the Big 10 might want Rutgers over both KU and MU. But who really knows.

[alnorth]

Iowa State.

I rest my case.

[alnorth]

If they are going to start poaching the Big East, I think the Big 10 might want Rutgers over both KU and MU. But who really knows.

even so, if they really wanted Rutgers but (apparently) didn't care about Syracuse or Pitt for some strange reason, then if they want 16 and Notre Dame sees the light, Kansas and Mizzou are the natural last two.

[|Zach|]

Don't waste your breath ... Zach is the ultimate Mizzou troll and there is nothing you can say to ever get him to admit anyone would want KU for any reason.

Anyone? No that is completely false. I know it is your schtick around here to be a whining drama queen but at least read my posts so you are not so off the mark. I think there are conferences that want KU. I just don't think the Big 10 is one of them.

[mnchiefsguy]

B1G would add ISU over KU and/or KState. None are their top options.

There is no way B1G would add ISU ahead of KU. KU is not on their radar, but ISU is even further off of their radar.

[LiveSteam]

There is no way B1G would add ISU ahead of KU. KU is not on their radar, but ISU is even further off of their radar.

BE NICE! Rustshack is very very worried about ISU athletics right now.
If the Big12-2-1-maybe 4more dies. So he has come up with some great possibilities for ISU. I feel for the guy. ISU is screwed

[BWillie]

Anyone? No that is completely false. I know it is your schtick around here to be a whining drama queen but at least read my posts so you are not so off the mark. I think there are conferences that want KU. I just don't think the Big 10 is one of them.

The Big 10 doesn't want KU right now. Only way KU would get a Big 10 invite is if they determine the superconference alignment is inevitable, and that it will lead the abolishing the NCAA for both football and basketball. This would mean that KU and basketball will be more important because the superconferences can manipulate the post season money instead of the NCAA, even then KU is pretty far down on their list.

I mean a ton of things would have to happen, but I would say it is at least POSSIBLE for KU to get into the Big 10 someday, certainly Missouri has a better shot though.

Say Cuse and Pitt get into the ACC. OSU, OU, Tech, Texas to Pac 10. WV, ND, Missouri, Kansas, Rutgers, UCONN, Iowa State, Baylor, Cincinnati, Louisville are the remaining schoools out there. So to get to 16, they would pick 4 out of those 10, and you'd have to think Kansas get a nod in that scenario only.

[Brianfo]

ISU and Baylor reportedly talking with Big East if Big 12 implodes.

[Stewie]

I don't get Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC.

[alnorth]

I mean a ton of things would have to happen

You are making this seem more complicated and remote than it is. There is one, and only one thing that needs to happen: the B1G needs to decide they want to expand to 16.

There is a chance they wont, they could decide to buck the trend and hold at 12, but once they expand to 13, 16 is probably inevitable because 14 is not a good number to schedule around.

If the B1G wants to expand to 16, it is difficult to credibly put together any list that excludes Kansas, given geography and their emphasis on AAU membership.

[BWillie]

I don't get Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC.

Really? Puts them in a much more stable conference which basically assures them a spot if there ends up being 4 main AQ conferences. I'm sure the Big 12 implosion has scared them shitless to go find a permanent home.

[Infidel Goat]

I don't get Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC.

The Big East is also a sinking ship.

Syracuse nearly went to the ACC back in the last expansion with Va. Tech sneaking in at the last minute.

I've heard a number of rumors for the #15 and #16 in the ACC.

Texas and Texas Tech
Texas and KU (seriously)
Texas and Notre Dame
UConn and Rutgers

other possibilities include WVU and Villanova (if they go Div. I in football)

UConn and Rutgers probably make the easiest sense as that would take the conference from Miami up through BC with natural geographic rivalries for all. Including ND or Texas would be done for money and probably with subsequent headache.

[tk13]

This really might be the most speculation in a thread in the history of CP. It seems like 95% of people across the country are literally throwing crap up against the wall at this point. It wasn't that long ago that Mizzou/KU/KSU/Iowa State/blah blah blah to the Big East. The SEC might poach teams from the ACC. Now the Big East is in trouble, and the ACC looks like the position of power.

The reality is if the Big East starts falling apart... there's a strong chance some people are going to be left out in the cold, there's just too many teams. Either that or the Big East survives by adding the Big 12's leftovers, but they won't be a major football conference.

[CrazyPhuD]

Mark my words....at the end of this there will only be one conference in all of college football! Of course they'll have to have a playoff to decide the conference champion but that's how it's going to go down.

[Stewie]

Really? Puts them in a much more stable conference which basically assures them a spot if there ends up being 4 main AQ conferences. I'm sure the Big 12 implosion has scared them shitless to go find a permanent home.

Not really. My point was that the ACC wants these teams? I'm sure Syracuse and Pitt asked for admission, but why would the ACC want them?

[ChiefsCountry]

Not really. My point was that the ACC wants these teams? I'm sure Syracuse and Pitt asked for admission, but why would the ACC want them?

TV Markets
Academics
Traditonally the top football programs in the east
All-Around Sports Programs
Great Basketball
Kills the Big East off

[KcMizzou]

@ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Big 12 administrator tells Orangebloods.com Syracuse and Pitt will be announced as 13th and 14th members of the #ACC on Sunday.

[chiefsfan987]

The Big East is also a sinking ship.

Syracuse nearly went to the ACC back in the last expansion with Va. Tech sneaking in at the last minute.

I've heard a number of rumors for the #15 and #16 in the ACC.

Texas and Texas Tech
Texas and KU (seriously)
Texas and Notre Dame
UConn and Rutgers

other possibilities include WVU and Villanova (if they go Div. I in football)

UConn and Rutgers probably make the easiest sense as that would take the conference from Miami up through BC with natural geographic rivalries for all. Including ND or Texas would be done for money and probably with subsequent headache.

on the Baylor board they are saying that Texas is no longer considering the ACC since they won't take Tech. If Texas goes to the Pac and Pitt and Syracuse do go to the ACC IMO KU is screwed along with KSU/ISU and Baylor.

[Stewie]

TV Markets
Academics
Traditonally the top football programs in the east
All-Around Sports Programs
Great Basketball
Kills the Big East off

TV markets? What TV markets? The ACC is going to suddenly take over the TV market for Penn State with Pitt?

I wasn't aware that Syracuse mattered.

[ChiefsCountry]

TV markets? What TV markets? The ACC is going to suddenly take over the TV market for Penn State?

I wasn't aware that Syracuse mattered.

You can't be that stupid. :banghead:

[Saul Good]

Just got word that KU might wind up in the ACC later tonight unless Ga Tech remembers to scrape them off their dicks.

[Stewie]

You can't be that stupid. :banghead:

You mean like MU to the Big 10?

[GloryDayz]

College Football : we can't have a playoff or get rid of the bowl system because it's tradition and we have too much pride to break tradition, traditional comes first.

But we'll rearrange the conferences as often as possible if it helps the bottom line cause we're not making enough money.

This.....

[alnorth]

I wasn't aware that Syracuse mattered.

Uhhh.... They do.

[BWillie]

@ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Big 12 administrator tells Orangebloods.com Syracuse and Pitt will be announced as 13th and 14th members of the #ACC on Sunday.

http://blogville.dailyadvocate.com/vitamint/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/holdontobutts.jpg

[Stewie]

Uhhh.... They do.

Why? They are a Big East school with a small TV exposure. The rule of the day is BIG SCHOOL... BIG TV!

[DeezNutz]

Why? They are a Big East school with a small TV exposure. The rule of the day is BIG SCHOOL... BIG TV!

It further opens up NY.

These two schools are ideal additions to the ACC.

[alnorth]

Why? They are a Big East school with a small TV exposure. The rule of the day is BIG SCHOOL... BIG TV!

New York

[Stewie]

It further opens up NY.

These two schools are ideal additions to the ACC.

New York State is NOT New York City. Outside of SE New York, upstate NY is rural. Think Vermont and New Hampshire.

[alnorth]

New York State is NOT New York City. Outside of SE New York, upstate NY is rural. Think Vermont and New Hampshire.

Just who do you think most NYC residents root for? Its not like they have big UNY and NYSU universities to split everyone's loyalty on saturdays.

[Stewie]

Just who do you think most NYC residents root for? Its not like they have big UNY and NYSU universities to split everyone's loyalty on saturdays.

They don't care about college football.

[alnorth]

They don't care about college football.

There are plenty enough who do that NYC has to carry syracuse games.

[Stewie]

There are plenty enough who do that NYC has to carry syracuse games.

It's better than watching funny home videos. They still don't care.

[BWillie]

Pretty sure if I moved to NYC, that doesn't mean I all of a sudden hate college football. If anything, the NYC crowd is diverse on what teams they like.

[tk13]

Syracuse has large alumni bases in places like Boston and NYC. Some of you Big 12'ers really need to let go of the idea that these east coast-based leagues are going to give up on New York City in favor of Kansas City. It's just not realistic. Certainly it's not like every football fan in NYC is a Syracuse fan but it's definitely a footprint the ACC doesn't have now.

[Stewie]

Syracuse has large alumni bases in places like Boston and NYC. Some of you Big 12'ers really need to let go of the idea that these east coast-based leagues are going to give up on New York City in favor of Kansas City. It's just not realistic. Certainly it's not like every football fan in NYC is a Syracuse fan but it's definitely a footprint the ACC doesn't have now.

KU has way more alumni than Syracuse. Syracuse, from what I can tell, has 14,000 undergraduate students. And they want to be a player?

[tk13]

KU has way more alumni than Syracuse. Syracuse, from what I can tell, has 14,000 undergraduate students. And they want to be a player?

Duke probably has half of that. Kick 'em out.

[Stewie]

Duke probably has half of that. Kick 'em out.

This is what's confusing. The small schools that are protected by a conference are free and clear? Basketball doesn't matter, so why keep them?

Northwestern? Really? They're a viable football school?

[Infidel Goat]

This is what's confusing. The small schools that are protected by a conference are free and clear? Basketball doesn't matter, so why keep them?

Northwestern? Really? They're a viable football school?

Sshh...

I'm a Wake Forest grad...

[tk13]

This is what's confusing. The small schools that are protected by a conference are free and clear? Basketball doesn't matter, so why keep them?

Northwestern? Really? They're a viable football school?

I don't think it's confusing at all. Northwestern is in Chicago. It's one of the best universities in the country... and they've played in several bowl games in the past 15 years or so, although without much success.

And there's no way you'd ever get the ACC to break up the Carolina schools. That's the heart of the conference.

[Stewie]

I don't think it's confusing at all. Northwestern is in Chicago. It's one of the best universities in the country... and they've played in several bowl games in the past 15 years or so, although without much success.

And there's no way you'd ever get the ACC to break up the Carolina schools. That's the heart of the conference.

The point in all this mess is, "we want TV eyes!" It's apparent that TV is going to align schools. Who watches Northwestern football? Sorry, but in the scheme of things, NW doesnt' matter.

IMO, schools with less than 25K enrollment are screwed.

[|Zach|]

It’s about being able to tell advertisers you’re in a market

[Stewie]

It’s about being able to tell advertisers you’re in a market

And there's the rub. TV ratings are a sham.

[|Zach|]

And there's the rub. TV ratings are a sham.

They are not a sham you are just taking the narrow view.

[ChiefsCountry]

IMO, schools with less than 25K enrollment are screwed.

LMAO Enrollment has nothing to do with anything of this.

[Stewie]

LMAO Enrollment has nothing to do with anything of this.

Really? So, Arizona State has nothing over TCU?

[ChiefsCountry]

Really? So, Arizona State has nothing over TCU?

You are so clueless when it comes to all of this, its not worth arguing.

[Stewie]

You are so clueless when it comes to all of this, its not worth arguing.

OK. You win. I get info from the attorney that is involved with the SEC and the ACC, but please, enlighten me.

[ChiefsCountry]

OK. You win. I get info from the attorney that is involved with the SEC and the ACC, but please, enlighten me.

Everything you have said has been fucking stupid. From enrollments to tv ratings don't matter. Like I said you don't have a clue.

[Saul Good]

Notre Dame is screwed. They only have 8,000 undergrads. They aren't going to get into a superconference.

[BWillie]

What happens to the rest of the Big East? Looks like Pitt & 'Cuse to the ACC is a done deal....I would think that the Big 10 would see the super conference era is coming and swoop them up. I think they would be a great fit for the Big 10. Surely Pitt and 'Cuse would want to come to the Big 10 if they could, right?

[Saul Good]

The point in all this mess is, "we want TV eyes!" It's apparent that TV is going to align schools. Who watches Northwestern football? Sorry, but in the scheme of things, NW doesnt' matter.

IMO, schools with less than 25K enrollment are screwed.

Kansas fans love to set the bar just under wherever Kansas is. KU has 26K. If they had 21K, it would be any school with less than 20K.

[bowener]

Thanks for starting this thread. I took a shit and hid it somewhere in the other one... forgot where and now its starting to get bad.

[Braincase]

Kansas fans love to set the bar just under wherever Kansas is. KU has 26K. If they had 21K, it would be any school with less than 20K.

Search Engine much?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas

Try just north of 30k.

[Mojo Jojo]

Search Engine much?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas

Try just north of 30k.
Sure if you include the Med School...if you want to play the total enrollment game...University of Phoenix and DeVry should be a huge draw for sports.

[Braincase]

Sure if you include the Med School...if you want to play the total enrollment game...University of Phoenix and DeVry should be a huge draw for sports.

Don't forget ITT. Don't really know what their athletic department budgets are like, though.

[BmoreBills]

Big Ten - Legends
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Michigan State
Northwestern
Minnesota
KANSAS
KANSAS STATE

Big Ten - Leaders
Wisconsin
Illinois
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Indiana
NOTRE DAME
MISSOURI

I know that Notre Dame refuses to cooperate, but with the news that Pitt is going to the ACC and Iowa State may go to the Big East, this makes the most sense to me.

[Mr. Laz]

Kansas fans love to set the bar just under wherever Kansas is. KU has 26K. If they had 21K, it would be any school with less than 20K.mizzou fans just love to suck donkey kawk so all you rancher types keep your gates lock.

[Saul Good]

Search Engine much?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas

Try just north of 30k.

You're counting Edwards campus, KU med, and all that. They are right at 25K in Lawrence. People that go to satellite schools don't tend to give a shit about the sports teams. Hell, my wife is getting her masters at Edwards, and she hates KU.

[Saul Good]

mizzou fans just to suck donkey kawk so all your rancher types keep your gates lock.

Kansas fans are well educated as evidenced by your post.

[Mr. Laz]

Kansas fans are well educated as evidenced by your post.yea, you're right. i'm not experienced dealing with animal dick or i would of realized.

glad to have your expertise around to set me straight.

[ChiefsCountry]

Big Ten - Legends
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Michigan State
Northwestern
Minnesota
KANSAS
KANSAS STATE

Big Ten - Leaders
Wisconsin
Illinois
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Indiana
NOTRE DAME
MISSOURI

I know that Notre Dame refuses to cooperate, but with the news that Pitt is going to the ACC and Iowa State may go to the Big East, this makes the most sense to me.

K-State to the B1G. LMAO

[|Zach|]

yea, you're right. i'm not experienced dealing with animal dick or i would of realized.

glad to have your expertise around to set me straight.

A woman scorned.

[BmoreBills]

K-State to the B1G. LMAO

Look, I know that there is a lot of bitterness between Mizzou, Kansas, and K State fans, but coming to the Big Ten creates a geographically logical plan, maintains rivalries, and heightens the level of exposure and competition. Great rivalries such as Mizzou-Iowa (long ignored), Kansas-Iowa are set up annually, and renewed foes in Kansas-Nebraska and Mizzou-Nebraska can be restored.

Just my take... would love to have your teams in our conference.

[|Zach|]

K-State to the B1G. LMAO

But it makes so much sense. I printed out all the teams names and aligned them perfectly!

[Braincase]

Kansas fans are well educated as evidenced by your post.

He went to Edwards Campus.

[ChiefsCountry]

Look, I know that there is a lot of bitterness between Mizzou, Kansas, and K State fans, but coming to the Big Ten creates a geographically logical plan, maintains rivalries, and heightens the level of exposure and competition. Great rivalries such as Mizzou-Iowa (long ignored), Kansas-Iowa are set up annually, and renewed foes in Kansas-Nebraska and Mizzou-Nebraska can be restored.

Just my take... would love to have your teams in our conference.

Kansas State doesn't have the academics for the B1G.

[tk13]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6985115/mike-kryzyzewski-says-pittsburgh-panthers-syracuse-orange-coup-acc

"It's actually pretty exciting," Krzyzewski said. "I think it's great for our conference football-wise, even better basketball-wise. Wherever this is going to end up, four big-time conferences or five, whatever it is, you want to be perceived as No. 1 in football and basketball.

"The last few years the ACC has lost some of that but over the last 25 years if you had to pick the best conference in basketball it is the ACC. Lately, it hasn't been that. It's been a really good conference. But to me this is in some ways a coup for basketball."

Florida State president Eric Barron confirmed to The Associated Press on Saturday before the Seminoles played No. 1 Oklahoma that both schools have applied to join the ACC.

But Krzyzewski doesn't want the ACC to stop at 14. He said he'd like to see 16 teams, taking two more schools that have comparable rich basketball traditions and are in the Eastern time zone.

"I'm proud of the leadership of our conference to be ahead of things," Krzyzewski said. "We're in a period of change. Whether everyone agrees with it or doesn't agree with it -- change is happening. It's not a revolution, it's evolution. These things are happening.

---

"It's about the time zone," Krzyzewski said. "If we're going to do this at 14, I would love to keep all the members we now have. I'm not sure that will happen. But we're being proactive and that's good. We're giving the 12 we have the knowledge that we've been proactive and the leader in this. It will become tougher to leave. Our conference is getting stronger. It's easy to leave a conference when it's weaker."

Krzyzewski said he would like to see the ACC go to 16 for an easy eight-team divisional split in basketball and football with champions of two divisions.

"We can keep the round robin in each division and keep some tradition," Krzyzewski said. "I wouldn't want to see one line of 14 or 16 teams. One of the weaknesses of the current Big East is that you never know who plays one another. The SEC hasn't been able to define their two divisions in basketball as well as they have in football."

[RustShack]

I really still feel like Big12 still ends up pulling out better than they were going into it this year. Whether its just adding BYU to get back to ten(Oklahoma and Texas staying) or grabbing three BigE teams.

[Brianfo]

I really still feel like Big12 still ends up pulling out better than they were going into it this year. Whether its just adding BYU to get back to ten(Oklahoma and Texas staying) or grabbing three BigE teams.

Big 12 is done. I am a clone too, but you are a fukn idiot. Quit posting. You embarass cyclone nation.

[alnorth]

Big 12 is done. I am a clone too, but you are a fukn idiot. Quit posting. You embarass cyclone nation.

I wouldn't go that far. It still makes no sense for OU or UT to go west, and they wouldn't except for the bad feelings surrounding the LHN. If UT is facing the reality that they have no choice but to give in, then there may still be a deal to be struck here.

[LiveSteam]

BYU SUCKS! I hope they do go to the big12-2-1

[ChiefsCountry]

Well Syracuse and Pittsburgh are pretty much offical to the ACC now. Expect UConn and Rutgers to follow shortly. SEC will add Wes Virginia along with the Aggies. Big 12 could be adding Louisville, Cincinnati, and TCU.

[tk13]

It'll be funny if after all this posturing the B12 schools will have sat on their hands for so long that the ACC swooped in and saved their conference by destroying the Big East.

[DeezNutz]

KU has way more alumni than Syracuse. Syracuse, from what I can tell, has 14,000 undergraduate students. And they want to be a player?

I'm better looking than him, make more money, and live in a better house...yet she still won't go out with me! Why?

[alnorth]

regarding student population and alumni: there are lots of people who follow a college team even though they never went to that school. Notre Dame is one obvious example of this.

This is just anecdotal, but I have an uncle who is an absolute die-hard Auburn fan. Goes to several games a year, always wearing an AU hat, always ready to talk SEC football. He also never went to college. That doesn't matter though, because if you live in SEC country, chances are good you are going to follow SEC football because everyone around you is going to games and talking about it Monday morning.

[BigRedChief]

It'll be funny if after all this posturing the B12 schools will have sat on their hands for so long that the ACC swooped in and saved their conference by destroying the Big East.Big East is done.

I don't see the Big 12 surviving without Texas stop insisting on running the conference.

[BmoreBills]

I wouldn't go that far. It still makes no sense for OU or UT to go west, and they wouldn't except for the bad feelings surrounding the LHN. If UT is facing the reality that they have no choice but to give in, then there may still be a deal to be struck here.

It makes no sense, but they are doing it anyway, as Baylor is going to the Big East, which is REALLY wacky.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Big 12 should swoop in and grab TCU, Louiville, and Cincy.

[Saul Good]

It doesn't matter what the Big XII does. Every team in the conference will be negotiating to find a way out and will take it at first opportunity. Didn't the last 12 months teach people anything?

Texas cheated on it's girlfriend, and the girlfriend may say that she wants to work things out with him. In reality, she's going to go bang the Harlem Globetrotters and dump his ass.

[Saulbadguy]

Yeah, I think the Big XII is *officially* dead now. ACC really kicked it off with the super conferences thing.

Unless congress gets involved, the 4-16 team super conferences will happen within the next couple of years.

[Crush]

The Big Ten really needs to change those stupid division names.

[RustShack]

Big 12 is done. I am a clone too, but you are a fukn idiot. Quit posting. You embarass cyclone nation.

You're an idiot. The Big East and Big12 aren't both going to blow up. If a few teams leave each conference then the leftovers are going to combine in one if nothing else. But Texas and Oklahoma aren't leaving. They would have by now if it was happening, it only took Pitt and Syracuse one day.

[RustShack]

The whole Oklahoma to the Pac is just a ploy to get some control from Texas. Texas to the ACC is their bluff back to Oklahoma. Both teams are going to end up staying. There will be equal revenue sharing on at least the first two tier contracts. Most likely adding three BigE schools now even though just BYU has seemed the most likely until the BigE getting blown up yesterday. There is way too much money tied up in the Big12 right now, not to mention the exit fees schools are going to get from aTm. If Texas and Oklahoma do leave its going to activate the death pill clause and they will be on the hook for 70million that I don't think they want to pay the remaining Big12 schools. They are going to sign their new tier one contract in a few years and be making straight cash. Thats what its all about, Big12 isn't going anywhere.

[Mosbonian]

The whole Oklahoma to the Pac is just a ploy to get some control from Texas. Texas to the ACC is their bluff back to Oklahoma. Both teams are going to end up staying. There will be equal revenue sharing on at least the first two tier contracts. Most likely adding three BigE schools now even though just BYU has seemed the most likely until the BigE getting blown up yesterday. There is way too much money tied up in the Big12 right now, not to mention the exit fees schools are going to get from aTm. If Texas and Oklahoma do leave its going to activate the death pill clause and they will be on the hook for 70million that I don't think they want to pay the remaining Big12 schools. They are going to sign their new tier one contract in a few years and be making straight cash. Thats what its all about, Big12 isn't going anywhere.

I'm guessing this this is all just an assumption on your part.

[LiveSteam]

I'm guessing this this is all just an assumption on your part.

Its desperation on his part. I think it helps him sleep at night. It is bull shit. ISU FINALLY has a great thing going with Rhoads. & this bull shit has to come along & threaten to screw it up for ISU fan. GO ISU

[BmoreBills]

The whole Oklahoma to the Pac is just a ploy to get some control from Texas. Texas to the ACC is their bluff back to Oklahoma. Both teams are going to end up staying. There will be equal revenue sharing on at least the first two tier contracts. Most likely adding three BigE schools now even though just BYU has seemed the most likely until the BigE getting blown up yesterday. There is way too much money tied up in the Big12 right now, not to mention the exit fees schools are going to get from aTm. If Texas and Oklahoma do leave its going to activate the death pill clause and they will be on the hook for 70million that I don't think they want to pay the remaining Big12 schools. They are going to sign their new tier one contract in a few years and be making straight cash. Thats what its all about, Big12 isn't going anywhere.

When Baylor and Iowa State leave after Texas A&M, and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State bolt for the Pac-12, there won't be a need to redistribute the money.

If it is a ploy, it is being done EXTREMELY poorly!

[HolyHandgernade]

Appears OU and Texas are going to the PAC. Probably OSU, as well. Tech remains the shakiest, but will probably also get in as some concession to Texas.

UConn to ACC is heating up.

Saw a tweet that West Virginia has applied for membership to the SEC.

Not looking good at all.

[BmoreBills]

Saw a tweet that West Virginia has applied for membership to the SEC.

Not looking good at all.

That's awesome! Kentucky-West Virginia should be the key rivalry there (how about the Moonshine Jug?), and Tennessee-West Virginia would be interesting.

The Big Ten has to act now... there might not be a Big East for Baylor and Iowa State to join, either.

[jAZ]

A great post on one of the boards I frequent had the following to share. It's from a trusted poster with ties to the Pac-12 office.
[/LIST][/I][/INDENT]

According to the same source "Barring a last minute change- Texas has decided to join the Pac 12."

Here are the latest details:
* Longhorn Network will "blend, dissolve or do whatever" into Pac-12 Network in a way that lets UT save face.
* Texas Tech, OU, OSU will join as well.
* A second league office in Dallas.
* FB Championship and BB Tourney rotates between LA & Dallas.

[kchero]

According to the same source "Barring a last minute change- Texas has decided to join the Pac 12."

Here are the latest details:
* Longhorn Network will "blend, dissolve or do whatever" into Pac-12 Network in a way that lets UT save face.
* Texas Tech, OU, OSU will join as well.
* A second league office in Dallas.
* FB Championship and BB Tourney rotates between LA & Dallas.

Sounds like the Pac12 made a deal with the devil just like the BIG 8 did.

[DeezNutz]

Pac-12 is especially concerned with the academic integrity of the conference, which is why, of the four schools being added, only one of which is worth a shit academically.

[BWillie]

KU is so f***ed unless Big 10 goes to 16 and KU gets in as the last choice @ 16.

UCONN to ACC. W Virginia to SEC. UT, OU, OU, TECH to Pac 16.

Conferences:
Big 10 (12 teams)
SEC (14 teams)
ACC (15 teams)
Pac (16 teams)

That essentially leaves 6 spots if there ends up being the 4 SUPERCONFERENCES


Remaining "BCS" teams not in AQ Conference (in order of perceived importance):
Notre Dame (Big 10?)
Missouri (Big 10? SEC?)
Kansas
Rutgers (Big 10?)
Kansas State
Iowa State
Louisville
South Florida
Baylor
Cincinnati

Other major players:
Boise State
TCU
BYU
New Mexico

[LiveSteam]

Rustshack will save the day

[Reerun_KC]

KU is so f***ed unless Big 10 goes to 16 and KU gets in as the last choice @ 16.

Looks that way...

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm guessing this this is all just an assumption on your part.

There is no way Texas ever goes to the ACC. ACC teams aren't going to pay to travel to Texas.

[Buck]

Welcome to the MWC KU and K-State.