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the Talking Can
09-19-2011, 07:41 AM
The Kansas City Chiefs are in a very dark place, having been outscored 89-10 in two games (including Sunday’s 48-3 thrashing by the Lions). They’ve lost arguably their best defensive and offensive players, safety Eric Berry(notes) and reportedly halfback Jamaal Charles, to season-ending knee injuries, in consecutive weeks. That surprising AFC West title from last season seems like it happened about 100 years ago. So what now?

Naturally, coach Todd Haley is feeling his rear end burn (in a figurative sense only, I hope). While Haley on the hot seat will strike most fans as odd – he was a legitimate coach of the year candidate in 2010, his second season in K.C. – people who know what’s going on inside the organization are nodding their heads unremarkably. That there is a lot of tension between Haley and his boss, general manager Scott Pioli, is the worst kept secret in NFL circles. The fact that they get along like vegetarians and Gates Barbecue shouldn’t be enough to get Haley fired, but the combination of that and a season from hell could certainly do the trick.

Haley’s deal is up after 2012, so the Chiefs have to do something at the end of the year – extend him, or get rid of him – unless they’re fans of the lame-duck thing, which always works sooooo well in the NFL (see: Fox, John, Carolina 2010). At this rate, I’m not loving Haley’s chances of survival. We know Pioli’s not going to take the fall himself, and unless owner Clark Hunt decides he wants to get rid of both of them (don’t hold your breath), Haley likely will be the one to go.

That’s too bad, for a number of reasons:

1) I think Haley’s a very good coach, though he’s habitually dissed in the media, a sign (I suspect) that someone in his organization whose name rhymes with cannoli likes to go off the record with certain reporters.

2) That whole “he’s a lousy offensive coach without Charlie Weis” is a laughable load of crap. Weis, who left for the University of Florida after a single season as the Chiefs’ offensive coordinator, was completely unenthused about the prospect of coaching Matt Cassel(notes). Haley stepped in, took the lead and helped Cassel play at an alarmingly high level that resulted in a stunning Pro Bowl selection. Haley, by the way, was a pretty good offensive coach when he was Ken Whisenhunt’s coordinator in Arizona and the Cardinals nearly won the Super Bowl three seasons ago.

3) I believe that if Pioli fires Haley, he’ll try to hire his old New England colleague Josh McDaniels, he of the disastrous tenure as Broncos head coach that included dubious personnel moves too numerous to mention, a cheating scandal and five victories in his final 22 games. When McDaniels, currently the Rams’ offensive coordinator, becomes K.C.’s next head coach, count on two things: I’ll remind you that you heard it here first and you’re going to be treated to a real diatribe.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_morning_rush_ryan_falcons_vick_hurdle_091911


say it to yourself...."Coach McDaniels..."

Chiefnj2
09-19-2011, 07:47 AM
Every single reporters "worst kept secret" about the Chiefs is different. Now we have somebody saying Haley likes Cassel and it was Haley, not Weis, who took Cassel under his wing and developed him last year. Wow.

If Pioli were to hire McDaniels as HC, I'd become a Raiders fan.

suds79
09-19-2011, 07:47 AM
If Scott Pioli goes out an hires one of his NE buddies in Josh McDaniels for the job I'm going to flip out. Man just thinking about it p!sses me off. If that's the case, might as well check out until from Chiefs stuff until Scott is gone.

You can't hire one of your buddies when there's other more qualified guys out there.

the Talking Can
09-19-2011, 07:50 AM
Every single reporters "worst kept secret" about the Chiefs is different. Now we have somebody saying Haley likes Cassel and it was Haley, not Weis, who took Cassel under his wing and developed him last year. Wow.

If Pioli were to hire McDaniels as HC, I'd become a Raiders fan.


he didn't say Haley liked Cassel...

cookster50
09-19-2011, 07:51 AM
If Scott Pioli goes out an hires one of his NE buddies in Josh McDaniels for the job I'm going to flip out. Man just thinking about it p!sses me off. If that's the case, might as well check out until from Chiefs stuff until Scott is gone.


This

TEX
09-19-2011, 08:02 AM
I remember hearing rumors that Herm was coming to KC during the BYE Week of the 2005 season...:hmmm:

IF McDaniels ever became HC - I'd be done with the Chiefs....

The Bad Guy
09-19-2011, 08:16 AM
I'd give him a chance. As long as that chance involved Andrew Luck.

Deberg_1990
09-19-2011, 08:19 AM
:facepalm: x10

DaKCMan AP
09-19-2011, 08:20 AM
McDaniels?? LMAO

That would be the last straw.

Frosty
09-19-2011, 08:20 AM
I'd give him a chance. As long as that chance involved Andrew Luck.

Unfortunately, if Pioli were to hire McDaniels, I think it would be several more years of Cassel.

track
09-19-2011, 08:28 AM
If Pioli were to hire McDaniels as HC, I'd become a Raiders fan.

I wouldn't go that far... but I would become a Packers fan...might as well go with a winner.

Shox
09-19-2011, 08:34 AM
I don't think Clark will every allow McDaniels to be hired. Arrowhead will be a ghost town on Sundays for the rest of the season. Clark will need a name to get the fans excited again for the business purpose of selling season tickets.

With McDaniels history he will not be a ticket seller.

I think it will be a big name which can exict the fans.

LVNHACK
09-19-2011, 08:35 AM
Right now I'm kinda glad I grew up in Pa. And was a transplant in the KC area for 20 years, with no thoughts of returning.....Both the Eagles and the Steelers get more games on TV in Iraq....Maybe it's time to jump to my home state teams...

Sofa King
09-19-2011, 08:38 AM
Great. Just what we need. Talk of fucking McDaniels coming here. Idiots are going to run wild with this shit.

The Bad Guy
09-19-2011, 08:42 AM
Unfortunately, if Pioli were to hire McDaniels, I think it would be several more years of Cassel.

That's right. Forget that noise. I completely forgot about that connection.

GloryDayz
09-19-2011, 08:46 AM
If we get Josh, I'll just stare at many of your avatars all day...

threebag
09-19-2011, 09:01 AM
Josh McDaniels **** OFF


http://thaiintelligentnews.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/fuck_off1.jpg

DJ's left nut
09-19-2011, 09:05 AM
If we get Luck, I would be fine with bringing in McDaniels.

Say what you want about the guy, but he made Kyle Orton look like an absolute star last year. The dude knows how to coach quarterbacks.

Bring him in and let him coach up Luck. Have Pioli around to hopefully keep him from doing insanely stupid things like dumping Hillis (or drafting Jackson...oh wait, that was us...I digress) and spend some money on an offensive coordinator that has a running background and a strong pedigree. You'll need someone that's clearly in charge and can establish a running game because we know that McDaniels can't.

If we can't get Luck, it's a poor hire. But if you can get McDaniels in here to coach your potential superstar quarterback to the peak of his ability, then I see no problem with that.

Molitoth
09-19-2011, 09:06 AM
I don't care who is coach, as long as we have a smart QB under center that can call his own audible plays depending on the defensive formation. This scripted play bullshit is oldschool NFL and will NEVER be as good as a Brady/Manning type under center.

The Franchise
09-19-2011, 09:07 AM
If they hire McDaniels....he better have no input on personell moves or the defense. He should basically be an OC with the title of HC. That and we better have Andrew Luck.

Priest31kc
09-19-2011, 09:08 AM
Yeah if Pioli really does hire McDaniels, I bet Cassel stays. Although the smart and logical thing to do would be to draft a real QB in the 1st round for his new head coach.

He better not hire McDaniels.

DJ's left nut
09-19-2011, 09:10 AM
Yeah if Pioli really does hire McDaniels, I bet Cassel stays. Although the smart and logical thing to do would be to draft a real QB in the 1st round for his new head coach.

He better not hire McDaniels.

Now that would finish me as a Chiefs fan for as long as the current regime is in place.

I'd be done with the Pioli-led Chiefs, without question.

Sofa King
09-19-2011, 09:10 AM
McDaniels is in St louis already as OC. Why would he come here unless he's a new head coach? Which he won't be, because Haley isn't going anywhere.

jd1020
09-19-2011, 09:11 AM
McDaniels is in St louis already as OC. Why would he come here unless he's a new head coach? Which he won't be, because Haley isn't going anywhere.

How can anyone say Haley isn't going anywhere with a straight face. The only thing left for Haley to pack is his sock drawer.

Molitoth
09-19-2011, 09:13 AM
This team will rally around a new QB, Haley doesn't really matter.

Brock
09-19-2011, 09:13 AM
McDaniels is in St louis already as OC. Why would he come here unless he's a new head coach? Which he won't be, because Haley isn't going anywhere.

How many games do you think Haley is going to win here at this point?

Sofa King
09-19-2011, 09:14 AM
How many games do you think Haley is going to win here at this point?

Enough to keep his job.

Brock
09-19-2011, 09:16 AM
Enough to keep his job.

I don't see it. They haven't even started playing really good teams yet. SD is going to murder these guys.

Let's say he really coaches his ass off and they win 5 games. That's enough?

the Talking Can
09-19-2011, 09:17 AM
Yeah if Pioli really does hire McDaniels, I bet Cassel stays. Although the smart and logical thing to do would be to draft a real QB in the 1st round for his new head coach.

He better not hire McDaniels.

i will not be here next year if Cassel is our QB...life is too short


I don't drink shitty beer, eat shitty food, or hang out with shitty people...and I'm not putting up with a worthless piece of shit QB after 3 years of him being a worthless piece of shit...

Sofa King
09-19-2011, 09:19 AM
I don't see it. They haven't even started playing really good teams yet. SD is going to murder these guys.

Let's say he really coaches his ass off and they win 5 games. That's enough?

I think it would be.

I think next season is the make or break season. He's lost enough guys and he's still early enough is his coaching career to warrant 1 more year from the front office (that's what they will say) IMO.


I don't think Haley is a bad coach, but when your QB sucks as much as he does, you really don't have a chance. More losses come from Cassel's suck than they do Haley's coaching.

jd1020
09-19-2011, 09:21 AM
I think it would be.

I think next season is the make or break season. He's lost enough guys and he's still early enough is his coaching career to warrant 1 more year from the front office (that's what they will say) IMO.


I don't think Haley is a bad coach, but when your QB sucks as much as he does, you really don't have a chance. More losses come from Cassel's suck than they do Haley's coaching.

Next season is the final year on his contract. This is his make or break season.

Brock
09-19-2011, 09:22 AM
Next season is the final year on his contract. This is his make or break season.

That too.

Sofa King
09-19-2011, 09:24 AM
Doesn't really matter anyways. This team isn't going anywhere while Matt's the QB, regardless of who the coaches are.

I think we can all agree on that.

rocknrolla
09-19-2011, 09:26 AM
How can anyone say Haley isn't going anywhere with a straight face. The only thing left for Haley to pack is his sock drawer.

If we get blown out like we have on all 3 of our prime time games, he is all but done. Jerry Jones style.

the Talking Can
09-19-2011, 09:28 AM
discussing this on petro right now

Dave Lane
09-19-2011, 09:28 AM
Every single reporters "worst kept secret" about the Chiefs is different. Now we have somebody saying Haley likes Cassel and it was Haley, not Weis, who took Cassel under his wing and developed him last year. Wow.

If Pioli were to hire McDaniels as HC, I'd become a Raiders fan.

I'm saying something I'm scared to admit.


I'm not sure Herm would be worse than Mcnugget.

TEX
09-19-2011, 09:33 AM
Doesn't really matter anyways. This team isn't going anywhere while Matt's the QB, regardless of who the coaches are.

I think we can all agree on that.

Yep.

Simply Red
09-19-2011, 09:39 AM
was Bono better than Cassel?

Simply Red
09-19-2011, 09:39 AM
that's a serious question.

luv
09-19-2011, 09:42 AM
Doesn't really matter anyways. This team isn't going anywhere while Matt's the QB, regardless of who the coaches are.

I think we can all agree on that.

Which tells me that we shouldn't make any decisions about Haley until after Cassel is finally gone.

However, if Pioli is a Cassel fan, and he seems to not be a Haley fan, it looks like we'll be seeing Haley go before Cassel.

BigMeatballDave
09-19-2011, 10:12 AM
i will not be here next year if Cassel is our QB...life is too short


I don't drink shitty beer, eat shitty food, or hang out with shitty people...and I'm not putting up with a worthless piece of shit QB after 3 years of him being a worthless piece of shit...LMAO :clap:

luv
09-19-2011, 10:15 AM
Oh, and if Pioli bring McDaniels here, I may have to shoot myself in the face.

Next thing you know, he'd try to get Tebow here.

keg in kc
09-19-2011, 10:16 AM
I'm not sure I could think of a worse hire than McDaniels.

Pants
09-19-2011, 10:17 AM
Oh, and if Pioli bring McDaniels here, I may have to shoot myself in the face.

Next thing you know, he'd try to get Tebow here.

Can you shoot Pioli in the face first, though?

track
09-19-2011, 10:18 AM
Which tells me that we shouldn't make any decisions about Haley until after Cassel is finally gone.

However, if Pioli is a Cassel fan, and he seems to not be a Haley fan, it looks like we'll be seeing Haley go before Cassel.


No doubt which I would rather see. Give me Haley and a good quality NFL QB over a new head coach and Cassel.

FringeNC
09-19-2011, 10:30 AM
Wow. Yep. I've been guessing something along the lines of this article. Pioli will be enraged by it. Evidently, Haley has a few friends in the league. Someone went to bat for him. It'd be funny if it was Parcells.

Mile High Mania
09-19-2011, 11:24 AM
Geez, I wouldn't even wish McD upon you guys... that would suck.

He would trade Moeaki and Bowe, and then likely make a play for FA Orton.

Frosty
09-19-2011, 11:28 AM
Geez, I wouldn't even wish McD upon you guys... that would suck.

He would trade Moeaki and Bowe, and then likely make a play for FA Orton.

I can take losing easier if I thought it was leading to finally getting a franchise QB.

However, if it only leads to Pioli hiring another one of his buddies and sticking with Cassel, I don't think I could take it anymore.

Simply Red
09-19-2011, 07:27 PM
was Bono better than Cassel?

Well...?

Al Bundy
09-19-2011, 07:32 PM
Dont you guys wish the Chiefs had hired Raheem Morris?

Al Bundy
09-19-2011, 07:33 PM
Well...?

Fuck no. Bono was beyond horrible.

Hammock Parties
09-19-2011, 07:38 PM
This is the same fucking idiot who said the Raiders were going to the AFCC.

Hammock Parties
09-19-2011, 07:39 PM
Geez, I wouldn't even wish McD upon you guys... that would suck.

He would trade Moeaki and Bowe, and then likely make a play for FA Orton.

Not with Pioli running the show.

RealSNR
09-19-2011, 07:39 PM
Dont you guys wish the Chiefs had hired Raheem Morris?Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.

MahiMike
09-19-2011, 07:41 PM
McDaniels woulda made a fine OC. Too bad Haley can't get along w/anyone.

BigMeatballDave
09-19-2011, 07:45 PM
I'd give him a chance. As long as that chance involved Andrew Luck.Same here. If he made a trade with Denver to aquire Tebow I'd go Timothy McVey on Arrowhead.

L.A. Chieffan
09-19-2011, 07:48 PM
Wtf is piolis problem with Haley, I don't remember hearing anything

booger
09-19-2011, 10:17 PM
Wtf is piolis problem with Haley, I don't remember hearing anything

I'm not so sure there is a problem between the 2. I could see Cassel being traded for and paid the contract he was and all they have invested in him but that wasn't a mistake they can't get past, at least IMO. That also would be more of a problem between Clark and Pioli but would have to include the input from Haley as well.

Clark got the structure he wanted with a football guy and a business ops guy.
He wanted the football side the resemble that of the Steelers in a team that has a constant philosophy to build through the draft and add cautiously through FA. They have done that. He wanted a coach who could be someone who would be a long term solution. Someone who would be in KC for a long time. Like a Marty, Cowher, or Jeff Fisher. He wanted stability throughout the football operations. He also wanted the team to draft a QB and for KC to have a home grown signal caller. I don't see anything Haley has done that would warrant him getting fired. This start to the season is awfully terrible and embarrassing. But the blame can't be placed squarely on Haley's shoulders. They hired a QB coach in Zorn specifically for Cassel. They have Palko as his backup. Not really giving Todd an option even if he wanted to bench Cassel.

I think some of the reason Pioli chose Haley is that Todd started off in the personnel side of things. His dad was a Personnel Director/Scout and Todd understands that side of it along with the coaching side. That understanding of how things actually work through a season and offseason leaves less of a chance of bitching and moaning and pointing the finger. Or a HC wanting control over personnel. Like Marty/Carl in Marty's last few years or Holmgren leaving GB for Seattle to be HC and GM when he had a great GM in GB, Ron Wolf.

I guess it's a perception/reality thing. When it comes to the Owner GM and HC, i'm not sure there is a big drama backstabbing bitchfest going on. I bet none of them are thrilled with the start. Clark isn't going to be happy about more empty seats. Not much he can do about that during the season as he can in the offseason with improving the roster.

The fact that they give the local media very little access beyond the bare minimum doesn't help on the national level either, especially when things go bad they will pile on like they do to any team who is at the bottom of the barrel.

I don't disagree with the fact that the start of the season is embarrassing for all 3 and the nature of the beast is that the arrow gets pointed at the HC first when things go this poorly. But i don't know where this Pioli wants Haley to fail or it's the worst kept secret in the NFL that they can't stand each other, i don't know where that's coming from.

From the start though there was the concern that a young owner + first time GM + first time HC could lead to some poor choices or even a cluster**** of sorts was sure a possibility.

I have no idea what to think but time will tell i guess.

whoman69
09-19-2011, 10:52 PM
I don't see it. They haven't even started playing really good teams yet. SD is going to murder these guys.

Let's say he really coaches his ass off and they win 5 games. That's enough?

I'd say with the hand he was given 5 would be a great season. I put the over/under on keep his job at 4.

ngoc
09-20-2011, 06:08 AM
i think i have been giving the chiefs the best '09 record prediction this year, and that was 7-9, with majority of their wins coming after the bye. we have a brutal schedule to start the first 6 games (other than Oak).