View Full Version : Chiefs Playcalling: 1st half vs. 2nd half
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:09 PM
Ok, the last two weeks we have seen two different teams between the halves. Question is, why is it taking the coaching staff half a game to figure out we have to actually throw the ball downfield more as oppsed to constantly running draws and swing passes?
Cassel aside, the playcalling has been suspect from the beginning of the season. I am sure the coaches are in no hurry to put the game in Cassel's hands but that is no excuse. We can't run the fucking ball. We aren't going to run the ball any better if we don't have our QB throwng the ball beyond the LOS more times than not.
Someone needs to grab Haley and Muir and explain to them that to get a 1st down you have to go 10 yards vertically, not 10 yards to either sideline.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:11 PM
Cassel aside nothing. He's the reason for the ****ing play calling. It's not a god damn secret. He can make a decent throw down field every now and then and a blind squirrel can also find an acorn. He is not a consistent down field passer so why the fuck would you consistently call down field pass plays.
Iconic
10-02-2011, 08:14 PM
Cassel aside nothing. He's the reason for the ****ing play calling. It's not a god damn secret.
Last time I checked when given an actual 'chance' Cassel has done fairly well throwing it deep.
Crush
10-02-2011, 08:14 PM
Cassel aside nothing. He's the reason for the ****ing play calling. It's not a god damn secret. He can make a decent throw down field every now and then and a blind squirrel can also find an acorn. He is not a consistent down field passer so why the fuck would you consistently call down field pass plays.
So, you can prove on tape AGAIN that he is not the answer at QB and boot his ass to the curb.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:15 PM
Cassel aside nothing. He's the reason for the ****ing play calling. It's not a god damn secret. He can make a decent throw down field every now and then and a blind squirrel can also find an acorn. He is not a consistent down field passer so why the **** would you consistently call down field pass plays.
I disagree. You brought him to the dance, now dance with him. Running the ball for 1-2 yards a carry isn't working out very well either. So might as well give yourself a chance. Call the plays. If he fucks them up then Haley has all the evidence he needs to go after another QB and Pioli will be unable to defend. But you can't enter your car in the race then be scared to go all out because you think your car is slower.
Who knows, we might even be somewhat surprised if we attacked a little more. But we won't know until we try.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:15 PM
Last time I checked when given an actual 'chance' Cassel has done fairly well throwing it deep.
No he hasn't. You are just not use to seeing him complete a down field pass so that when he does you blow it out of proportion because you are a dumbass.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:16 PM
I disagree. You brought him to the dance, now dance with him. Running the ball for 1-2 yards a carry isn't working out very well either. So might as well give yourself a chance. Call the plays. If he ****s them up then Haley has all the evidence he needs to go after another QB and Pioli will be unable to defend. But you can't enter your car in the race then be scared to go all out because you think your car is slower.
Who knows, we might even be somewhat surprised if we attacked a little more. But we won't know until we try.
They already have the evidence they need... Look at the last 6 regular season games.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:18 PM
No he hasn't. You are just not use to seeing him complete a down field pass so that when he does you blow it out of proportion because you are a dumbass.
He hasn't been terrible in the last 2 weeks when the plays were actually called without a hood of fright over their eyes. He had some bad passes today but he had some very good ones too.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:18 PM
They already have the evidence they need... Look at the last 6 regular season games.
you mean every game since Weis left?
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:18 PM
They already have the evidence they need... Look at the last 6 regular season games.
Apparently it wasn't enough.
Iconic
10-02-2011, 08:18 PM
No he hasn't. You are just not use to seeing him complete a down field pass that when he does you blow it out of proportion because you are a dumbass.
No it's the other way around genius. Almost every pass he's thrown more then 15 feet from the Chargers game(2nd half only) to this entire game. He's almost always completed it. Unless it was a rushed throw and thrown to the sideline. You just aren't looking past your blind hatred of Cassel to actually see improvement dipshit.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:19 PM
Bottom line is I can live with Cassel fucking up on 3rd and long easier than I can watching us constantly running draw plays or throwing swing passes on 3rd and long.
Shogun
10-02-2011, 08:21 PM
I disagree. You brought him to the dance, now dance with him. Running the ball for 1-2 yards a carry isn't working out very well either. So might as well give yourself a chance. Call the plays. If he fucks them up then Haley has all the evidence he needs to go after another QB and Pioli will be unable to defend. But you can't enter your car in the race then be scared to go all out because you think your car is slower.
Who knows, we might even be somewhat surprised if we attacked a little more. But we won't know until we try.
We're still talking about football right?
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:21 PM
He hasn't been terrible in the last 2 weeks when the plays were actually called without a hood of fright over their eyes. He had some bad passes today but he had some very good ones too.
Nice to see Cassel doing his job. Completing 1 or 2 big pass plays to nullify the rest of his play throughout a game.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Bottom line is I can live with Cassel ****ing up on 3rd and long easier than I can watching us constantly running draw plays or throwing swing passes on 3rd and long.
That doesn't even make sense. You can live with failing on 3rd down but you cant live with failing on 3rd down.
That's a whole lot of retard.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Nice to see Cassel doing his job. Completing 1 or 2 big pass plays to nullify the rest of his play throughout a game.
Cassel played better pissed
probably because Haley(much like marty) has him too scared to do anything.
I want an upgrade at the QB position but i also want a major upgrade at the OC position.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:24 PM
No it's the other way around genius. Almost every pass he's thrown more then 15 feet from the Chargers game(2nd half only) to this entire game. He's almost always completed it. Unless it was a rushed throw and thrown to the sideline. You just aren't looking past your blind hatred of Cassel to actually see improvement dipshit.
Almost always = 62%.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:24 PM
That doesn't even make sense. You can live with failing on 3rd down but you cant live with failing on 3rd down.
That's a whole lot of retard.
Why is it retarded? Do you even understand the difference? Apparently not? Let me help you....I can live with him throwing incomplete on 3rd and 8 more than I can running Dex up the middle on some telegraphed draw on 3rd and 8. Why? Because one has a better chance of actually getting the conversion.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:25 PM
That doesn't even make sense. You can live with failing on 3rd down but you cant live with failing on 3rd down.
That's a whole lot of retard.
no, you stupid ****.
It's better to try and fail than to not try at all.
playcalling is terrible
Haley better get his shit together
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:27 PM
you mean every game since Weis left?:rolleyes:
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:30 PM
Why is it retarded? Do you even understand the difference? Apparently not? Let me help you....I can live with him throwing incomplete on 3rd and 8 more than I can running Dex up the middle on some telegraphed draw on 3rd and 8. Why? Because one has a better chance of actually getting the conversion.
Cassel constantly throwing the ball 3-4 yards short of a first down does not have more of a chance of success than a draw play.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:31 PM
Cassel constantly throwing the ball 3-4 yards short of a first down does not have more of a chance of success than a draw play.
Uh, yeah it does. And secondly, go back to the play calling. Who is calling the 3 and 4 yard routes? Our playcallers should not even have a 3 yard route in the pattern when we need 5 yards.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:32 PM
Uh, yeah it does. And secondly, go back to the play calling. Who is calling the 3 and 4 yard routes? Our playcallers should not even have a 3 yard route in the pattern when we need 5 yards.
How does a short pass have more of a chance of success than a draw play. Please explain. I've seen Charles and McCluster abuse those plays for 10+ yards more than I've seen Cassel throw a short pass for a first down.
Iconic
10-02-2011, 08:33 PM
Almost always = 62%.
No it's the other way around genius. Almost every pass he's thrown more then 15 feet from the Chargers game(2nd half only) to this entire game. He's almost always completed it. Unless it was a rushed throw and thrown to the sideline. You just aren't looking past your blind hatred of Cassel to actually see improvement dipshit.
9 for 13 on passes Deep 15 yard or over. From that game and the other half of the Chargers. That's a 70% completion rate. Go **** your self.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:33 PM
How does a short pass have more of a chance of success than a draw play. Please explain.
Good question...ask the fucking OC anbd head coach! Thus the topic of the thread!!!!
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:37 PM
How does a short pass have more of a chance of success than a draw play. Please explain. I've seen Charles and McCluster abuse those plays for 10+ yards more than I've seen Cassel throw a short pass for a first down.
Let me just add....there should be no excuse for a pattern to be run short of the yard marker unless it is over 3rd and 10. Cassel has to check down to whereever the check down is. If it's 3rd and 5 and the receiver runs a 2 yard route then that is not on Cassel, that is on Muir and Haley. That is on the playcalling.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:39 PM
Let me just add....there should be no excuse for a pattern to be run short of the yard marker unless it is over 3rd and 10. Cassel has to check down to whereever the check down is. If it's 3rd and 5 and the receiver runs a 2 yard route then that is not on Cassel, that is on Muir and Haley. That is on the playcalling.
Cassel doesn't HAVE to check down, he chooses to. Get that through your thick skull. Watch the fucking tapes.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:40 PM
9 for 13 on passes Deep 15 yard or over. From that game and the other half of the Chargers. That's a 70% completion rate. Go **** your self.
How many of those passes were actually 15 yards through the air?
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:41 PM
Cassel doesn't HAVE to check down, he chooses to. Get that through your thick skull. Watch the ****ing tapes.
if the wide receiver isn't open he does
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:42 PM
Cassel doesn't HAVE to check down, he chooses to. Get that through your thick skull. Watch the ****ing tapes.
He doesn't always have to check down, you are correct. But in 3rd and long checking down is not an uncommon event. The only caveat is your checkdown has to be at the markers with the other WR's deeper.
So get this through your thick skull, professor, if you don't run routes for 8 yards on 3rd and 8 you don't even give yourself a chance, checkdown or not. Again, PLAYCALLING!
Did you ever think that if Cassel's checkdowns were at or beyond the yard sticks it wouldn't matter if he checked down????
JFC!!!!
Iconic
10-02-2011, 08:42 PM
How many of those passes were actually 15 yards through the air?
ALL 13 OF THEM. DO YOU NOT COMPUTE ENGLISH? JFC:banghead:
Check the play by play if you don't believe me.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:43 PM
if the wide receiver isn't open he does
No. He checks down because thats what he's comfortable with. How many times does tape have to be shown where Cassel throws a short 2-3 yard pass and someone is WIDE open 10+ yards down field.
There are many factors involved here, Mr. petegz28.
First off, they want to try and run the ball, so they try that. Second off, they want to try to pass the ball short, so they try that. Third off, we're playing from behind so they want to try and score, so they try that. Fourth off, nobody really knows what Cassel is going to do with the ball from snap to snap, so they try not to involve him. Fifth off, there's a waitress down at Vickie's Pizza who takes the under at half time and promises to not wear panties if we play like crap for at least two quarters.
FAX
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:44 PM
if the wide receiver isn't open he doesDumbass. How many times has Clay shown us video evidence of open receivers downfield and Cassel opting for the checkdown?
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:44 PM
No. He checks down because thats what he's comfortable with. How many times does tape have to be shown where Cassel throws a short 2-3 yard pass and someone is WIDE open 10+ yards down field.
And WHO is calling those 3 yard routes????? :banghead:
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:46 PM
ALL 13 OF THEM. DO YOU NOT COMPUTE ENGLISH? JFC:banghead:
Check the play by play if you don't believe me.
Play by plays dont account for YAC.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Dumbass. How many times has Clay shown us video evidence of open receivers downfield and Cassel opting for the checkdown?
That's still no excuse for calling a play with a 3 yard route in it when you need 5!!!! That's the fucking point! If his checkdown is at the yardsticks then it doesn't matter!
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Play by plays dont account for YAC.
Yeah because no other QB in the league has their stats padded with YAC.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:47 PM
He doesn't always have to check down, you are correct. But in 3rd and long checking down is not an uncommon event. The only caveat is your checkdown has to be at the markers with the other WR's deeper.
So get this through your thick skull, professor, if you don't run routes for 8 yards on 3rd and 8 you don't even give yourself a chance, checkdown or not. Again, PLAYCALLING!
Did you ever think that if Cassel's checkdowns were at or beyond the yard sticks it wouldn't matter if he checked down????
JFC!!!!
Show me plays where every route called doesnt make it to the first down marker.
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:48 PM
Yeah because no other QB in the league has their stats padded with YAC.
Not as much as Cassels. He benefited from the most YAC in his 1 season with NE and I believe last year as well.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:48 PM
And WHO is calling those 3 yard routes????? :banghead:Its just part of the play. Sometimes, they actually gain enough yardage for a 1st down.
That's still no excuse for calling a play with a 3 yard route in it when you need 5!!!! That's the ****ing point! If his checkdown is at the yardsticks then it doesn't matter!
Well, there kinda is a reason, Mr. petegz28.
You send somebody short for a couple of reasons ... to draw the safety in order to open the deeper field ... to occupy a linebacker ... to give your QB an option if the deeper man is covered ... or, in Cassel's case, to give your QB somebody he can hit sometimes.
FAX
Mama Hip Rockets
10-02-2011, 08:49 PM
No he hasn't. You are just not use to seeing him complete a down field pass so that when he does you blow it out of proportion because you are a dumbass.
ROFL
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:49 PM
Show me plays where every route called doesnt make it to the first down marker.
WTF? Are you really this stupid? So if our 2 WR's that run past the yard marker are coverd we should still throw to them anyway? Is that it?
How about instead of running 2 guys for 15 yards and 1 for 3 on 3rd and 8 you run the 3rd guy for 8?
Again, Simon, it's called playcalling.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:50 PM
No. He checks down because thats what he's comfortable with. How many times does tape have to be shown where Cassel throws a short 2-3 yard pass and someone is WIDE open 10+ yards down field.
show me the tapes because i haven't seen them
shit, our wide receivers rarely get "wide" open ... ever ...
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Its just part of the play. Sometimes, they actually gain enough yardage for a 1st down.
Sometimes...and sometimes teams actually call plays where the receivers are all past the yardsticks!
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:51 PM
WTF? Are you really this stupid? So if our 2 WR's that run past the yard marker are coverd we should still throw to them anyway? Is that it?
How about instead of running 2 guys for 15 yards and 1 for 3 on 3rd and 8 you run the 3rd guy for 8?
Again, Simon, it's called playcalling.
How many times has Cassel been shown checking down short of the first down marker when there's a receiver NFL to WIDE THE **** OPEN passed the first down marker?
God you are retarded.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:51 PM
Well, there kinda is a reason, Mr. petegz28.
You send somebody short for a couple of reasons ... to draw the safety in order to open the deeper field ... to occupy a linebacker ... to give your QB an option if the deeper man is covered ... or, in Cassel's case, to give your QB somebody he can hit sometimes.
FAX
what are the chances that a decent Safety/linebacker covers the guy short of the 1st down marker and lets the deep guy run?
I don't know, Mr. Laz.
I, myself, have seen several gif things that clearly show a very open wide receiver downfield ... corner trailing or even appearing lost. In each case, Cassel checked down.
FAX
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:52 PM
Well, there kinda is a reason, Mr. petegz28.
You send somebody short for a couple of reasons ... to draw the safety in order to open the deeper field ... to occupy a linebacker ... to give your QB an option if the deeper man is covered ... or, in Cassel's case, to give your QB somebody he can hit sometimes.
FAX
Symantics. A check down is all about what the other WR's are doing. On 3rd and long the deepr guys are usually going to have the focus of the defense. Again, no excuse to call a 3 yard route on 3rd and 5. NONE!
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:52 PM
WTF? Are you really this stupid? So if our 2 WR's that run past the yard marker are coverd we should still throw to them anyway? Is that it?
How about instead of running 2 guys for 15 yards and 1 for 3 on 3rd and 8 you run the 3rd guy for 8?
Again, Simon, it's called playcalling.Its not play calling, its play design. All offenses have this. Its just the Chiefs are not good at executing it.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:54 PM
show me the tapes because i haven't seen them
shit, our wide receivers rarely get "wide" open ... ever ...Do you always avoid Clay's gif threads?
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:54 PM
How many times has Cassel been shown checking down short of the first down marker when there's a receiver NFL to WIDE THE **** OPEN passed the first down marker?
God you are retarded.
You're the one who is retarded. You don't even comprehend that basic concept of giving yourself a chance. You're the one that doesn't comprehend the concept of having your checkdowns in a particular position, e.g. not 4 yards short of the sticks.
It's pretty fucking simple, Cassel can't throw a 2 yard pass if there are no WR's running 2 yard routes. PLAY......CALLING!!!!
what are the chances that a decent Safety/linebacker covers the guy short of the 1st down marker and lets the deep guy run?
I'm gonna say ... 1. That's just a guess, though.
I didn't mean to imply that the defense wouldn't cover the other dudes. I'm just saying that, one of the reasons you run a dude short is to open up the other dudes.
Plus, there is such a thing as YAC. Besides, defenses are supposed to defend all the potential receivers ... not just the deep routes.
FAX
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:54 PM
You're the one who is retarded. You don't even comprehend that basic concept of giving yourself a chance. You're the one that doesn't comprehend the concept of having your checkdowns in a particular position, e.g. not 4 yards short of the sticks.
It's pretty ****ing simple, Cassel can't throw a 2 yard pass if there are no WR's running 2 yard routes. PLAY......CALLING!!!!
........................................................................................ There's always a WR running a 2 yard route on this offense because thats all Cassel can consistently hit and its usually the only thing he's looking for.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:55 PM
Its not play calling, its play design. All offenses have this. Its just the Chiefs are not good at executing it.
It IS playcalling. I understand there are times where you have a guy short of the sticks. We do it consistently. That is a flaw in the playcalling.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:56 PM
........................................................................................ There's always a WR running a 2 yard route on this offense because thats all Cassel can consistently hit and its usually the only thing he's looking for.
:banghead:
petegz28
10-02-2011, 08:57 PM
I'm gonna say ... 1. That's just a guess, though.
I didn't mean to imply that the defense wouldn't cover the other dudes. I'm just saying that, one of the reasons you run a dude short is to open up the other dudes.
Plus, there is such a thing as YAC. Besides, defenses are supposed to defend all the potential receivers ... not just the deep routes.
FAX
Defenses can't cover everyone. I don't mind running someone short. Meaing shorter than the other routes. But you still have to give yourself a chance. If you need 5 yards there should be no one running short of that.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 08:58 PM
It IS playcalling. I understand there are times where you have a guy short of the sticks. We do it consistently. That is a flaw in the playcalling.Are you being obtuse on purpose? I can only assume this.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 08:59 PM
I don't know, Mr. Laz.
I, myself, have seen several gif things that clearly show a very open wide receiver downfield ... corner trailing or even appearing lost. In each case, Cassel checked down.
FAX
Fair enough ... Cassel plays scared, been saying that for awhile. I want an upgrade at QB just like everyone else. Coaching is making Cassel worse.
1st year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass
2nd year - Cassel + Weis = decent, until almost the very second Weis announcing he is leaving and Haley takeover the offense.
3rd year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass, until the Viking's game when Haley and cassel get into a fight. Cassel tells Haley 'he's a pussy and doesn't know what he's talking about" and then it's a little better because he's pissed.
What part of these facts doesn't scream that Haley is part of the problem?
jd1020
10-02-2011, 08:59 PM
It IS playcalling. I understand there are times where you have a guy short of the sticks. We do it consistently. That is a flaw in the playcalling.
It's not a flaw in play calling. It's a flaw in QB decision making. If Cassel was only caught checking down to a WR short of the first down marker or even behind the LoS then it wouldn't be as big of a problem. But the fact that he does it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is a decision making problem. There are countless times where its been documented he's had options to make a play and chose not to.
Symantics. A check down is all about what the other WR's are doing. On 3rd and long the deepr guys are usually going to have the focus of the defense. Again, no excuse to call a 3 yard route on 3rd and 5. NONE!
Sure there is.
It's important (from an offensive standpoint) to attempt to force the enemy to defend the entire field if you can.
I don't see an issue with running a guy over the middle from the slot, for example, 3 yards deep on a 3rd and 5. So long as he isn't your first option, of course. One of the problems we have is that we're taking the short option too frequently ... if not almost always.
It's so bad, I think we set a record in week 1 for negative pass plays ... or something like that.
I don't believe that our coaches' game plans include a negative total for our passing game. I see the problem as relating more to execution than anything else.
FAX
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Are you being obtuse on purpose? I can only assume this.
Assume what you wish. It's common sense which seems to have left a few of you. Cassel doesn't call the plays. Cassel doesn't draw up the 2 yard routes. I'm not saying the guy is a great QB, I am saying our playcalling is fucking idiotic beyond all comprehension.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 09:02 PM
It's not a flaw in play calling. It's a flaw in QB decision making. If Cassel was only caught checking down to a WR short of the first down marker or even behind the LoS then it wouldn't be as big of a problem. But the fact that he does it over over and over and over and over again is a decision making problem. There are countless times where its been documented he's had options to make a play and chose not to.
Marty called and says he loves you.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:02 PM
Sure there is.
It's important (from an offensive standpoint) to attempt to force the enemy to defend the entire field if you can.
I don't see an issue with running a guy over the middle from the slot, for example, 3 yards deep on a 3rd and 5. So long as he isn't your first option, of course. One of the problems we have is that we're taking the short option too frequently ... if not almost always.
It's so bad, I think we set a record in week 1 for negative pass plays ... or something like that.
I don't believe that our coaches' game plans include a negative total for our passing game. I see the problem as relating more to execution than anything else.
FAX
I see the problem of it. Because they are going to have guys defending the shorter checkdowns. So you have to force the defense to cover beyond the yard marker. Even with the checkdown receiver.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Fair enough ... Cassel plays scared, been saying that for awhile. I want an upgrade at QB just like everyone else. Coaching is making Cassel worse.
1st year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass
2nd year - Cassel + Weis = decent, until almost the very second Weis announcing he is leaving and Haley takeover the offense.
3rd year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass, until the Viking's game when Haley and cassel get into a fight. Cassel tells Haley 'he's a pussy and doesn't know what he's talking about" and then it's a little better because he's pissed.
What part of these facts doesn't scream that Haley is part of the problem?This post screams you are a manchild and a moron.
Coaching is making Cassel worse? LMAO
You tell me why Cassel struggled just the same early last season? Remember the 1st 2 games of last season?
Extra Point
10-02-2011, 09:04 PM
This is Herm 2.0 v2. The differences include micro-managing the offense and second-guessing the defense. Then, again, there is no difference, except "same damned play" actually worked. It was'nt up a guard's ass, it was around it.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:07 PM
Assume what you wish. It's common sense which seems to have left a few of you. Cassel doesn't call the plays. Cassel doesn't draw up the 2 yard routes. I'm not saying the guy is a great QB, I am saying our playcalling is fucking idiotic beyond all comprehension.All offenses have plays that run short of the 1st down. It is what it is.
Even Al Saunders offenses had them. Its frustrating when it doesnt result in a 1st down, but it has nothing to do with playcalling.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:10 PM
All offenses have plays that run short of the 1st down. It is what it is.
Even Al Saunders offenses had them. Its frustrating when it doesnt result in a 1st down, but it has nothing to do with playcalling.
It doesn't???? Really? What excuse there ever to run a route short of 5 yards? Other than it being a designed play on a screen or swing pass or quick out.
3rd and 5, no one should be short of the markers. 3rd and 15, I will give you.
Fair enough ... Cassel plays scared, been saying that for awhile. I want an upgrade at QB just like everyone else. Coaching is making Cassel worse.
1st year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass
2nd year - Cassel + Weis = decent, until almost the very second Weis announcing he is leaving and Haley takeover the offense.
3rd year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass, until the Viking's game when Haley and cassel get into a fight. Cassel tells Haley 'he's a pussy and doesn't know what he's talking about" and then it's a little better because he's pissed.
What part of these facts doesn't scream that Haley is part of the problem?
I don't think Haley is perfect ... far from it.
However, when I weigh all the good stuff against all the bad stuff, he comes out ahead in my book.
Personally, I think trying to turn Cassel into a legitimate QB is like trying to make a silk purse from a sow's labia. It's could probably be done, but who wants to try?
It's funny how people want to use Weis as an example of how much better Cassel can be with proper coaching. Weis' own comments indicate that he was unimpressed with Cassel from the get-go. Even as that season wore on, he was less than enthusiastic about the guy ... at least in public. When the best thing you can say about your QB is, "he's on our team", you are not displaying great confidence. Essentially, Weis cut down on his interceptions by giving him the dump-off pass option. Plus, we had a really, really good run game that helped keep defenses honest and a new and improved Bowe as a target (thanks, in large measure, to Haley).
I give Haley credit for not shooting Cassel in the brainpan because I'm pretty sure he'd prefer daily prison shower rape to coaching that dipstick.
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Extra Point
10-02-2011, 09:19 PM
I don't think Haley is perfect ... far from it....
I give Haley credit for not shooting Cassel in the brainpan because I'm pretty sure he'd prefer daily prison shower rape to coaching that dipstick.
FAX
Chicken salad is 75% off this season only! Check the circular!
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:19 PM
It doesn't???? Really? What excuse there ever to run a route short of 5 yards? Other than it being a designed play on a screen or swing pass or quick out.
3rd and 5, no one should be short of the markers. 3rd and 15, I will give you.Designed plays. Its not like they are drawing this shit in the dirt.
Again, its NOT playcalling. You just hope the underneath guy makes enough yardage for a 1st. On good teams, these are sometimes converted.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Designed plays. Its not like they are drawing this shit in the dirt.
Again, its NOT playcalling. You just hope the underneath guy makes enough yardage for a 1st. On good teams, these are sometimes converted.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree then. I firmly believe it is playcalling. I can even live with those short routes here and there but we rung them consistently. That is playcalling. It's one thing to say you don't have a play in the playbook for 3rd and 20. It's another to say you don't for 3rd and 5.
Mr. Laz
10-02-2011, 09:25 PM
It's funny how people want to use Weis as an example of how much better Cassel can be with proper coaching.
What's funny about it? No matter how bad Cassel is he was still better under Weis. It proves that Haley isn't the great offensive coach that everyone keeps insisting he is based on what they think he did in Arizona.
If Cassel is worse with Haley then why in the hell would anyone want Haley to coach Luck? I don't want Haley touching a real QBoTF anymore than i would Gunther Cunningham.
Lynch mob mentality about Cassel has set in and any real thought process has flown out the window.
Chicken salad is 75% off this season only! Check the circular!
ROFL
I can understand why some people are anti-Haleys. I, myself, was anti-Herm in the face of great criticism and cries of, "He's a great talent evaluator!!!".
All things being equal, I much prefer a guy who A) Demands that the team be in peak physical condition, B) Likes to score points, and C) Gets in the players' faces when the situation calls for it ... as opposed to a Herm or a Grampa.
Haley is the kind of guy who will polarize a fan base. Then again, he is the kind of guy who will either succeed or fail in a giant blaze of flaming disaster the likes of which has not been seen without a telescope.
Give him rope, I say. Rope and a quarterback who understands that the socks go on before the shoes.
FAX
What's funny about it? No matter how bad Cassel is he was still better under Weis. It proves that Haley isn't the great offensive coach that everyone keeps insisting he is based on what they think he did in Arizona.
If Cassel is worse with Haley then why in the hell would anyone want Haley to coach Luck? I don't want Haley touching a real QBoTF anymore than i would Gunther Cunningham.
Lynch mob mentality about Cassel has set in and any real thought process has flown out the window.
I remain lucid and objective, Mr. Laz. Perfectly so.
I simply call a spade a spade.
There were factors other than Weis' mentoring that impacted Cassel's performance last season. Would you not agree?
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milkman
10-02-2011, 09:28 PM
Fair enough ... Cassel plays scared, been saying that for awhile. I want an upgrade at QB just like everyone else. Coaching is making Cassel worse.
1st year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass
2nd year - Cassel + Weis = decent, until almost the very second Weis announcing he is leaving and Haley takeover the offense.
3rd year - Cassel + Haley = stank ass, until the Viking's game when Haley and cassel get into a fight. Cassel tells Haley 'he's a pussy and doesn't know what he's talking about" and then it's a little better because he's pissed.
What part of these facts doesn't scream that Haley is part of the problem?
What part of the fact that the only times that Cassel has looked better is against weak secondaries, regardless of whether it was Haley, Weis or Muir calling the plays that you can't fucking understand?.
What part of the fact that Cassel has looked like complete ass every time he has played against good defenses with good secondaries whether it was haley, Weis, or Muir calling the plays that you can't understand.
The only fucking magic Weis performed is he appeared when the Cheifs played a soft schedule, and disappeared now that the schedule is much tougher.
Weis didn't do jack.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:29 PM
It's one thing to say you don't have a play in the playbook for 3rd and 20. It's another to say you don't for 3rd and 5.Its not like the underneath guy is the only option here. There are other options further downfield.
Do you think the shortest route is the QBs 1st option?
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Lynch mob mentality about Cassel has set in and any real thought process has flown out the window.Because he fucking sucks, but you are too stupid to see this. Remove Weis' scrotum from your eyes and you would see...
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Its not like the underneath guy is the only option here. There are other options further downfield.
Do you think the shortest route is the QBs 1st option?
Do you think the deepr routes are covered more on 3rd down?
oRYMANo
10-02-2011, 09:32 PM
This is the first time this year he has went through progressions. Look Deep, middle then short. Instead of just picking one as the ball is snapped. He still cant throw with a blitz in his face though.
Extra Point
10-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Last time I checked when given an actual 'chance' Cassel has done fairly well throwing it deep.
I'm sorry, but, that read like Snagglepuss was saying it. (Whatever you do, just don't exit stage right.)
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:35 PM
Do you think the deepr routes are covered more on 3rd down?Sure, but sometimes they are open and Cassel misses them. We've seen proof of this.
petegz28
10-02-2011, 09:36 PM
Sure, but sometimes they are open and Cassel misses them. We've seen proof of this.
And as I said way back earlier in the thread, I can live with that more than I can calling idiotic draws on 3rd and long.
tredadda
10-02-2011, 09:37 PM
What part of the fact that the only times that Cassel has looked better is against weak secondaries, regardless of whether it was Haley, Weis or Muir calling the plays that you can't ****ing understand?.
What part of the fact that Cassel has looked like complete ass every time he has played against good defenses with good secondaries whether it was haley, Weis, or Muir calling the plays that you can't understand.
The only ****ing magic Weis performed is he appeared when the Cheifs played a soft schedule, and disappeared now that the schedule is much tougher.
Weis didn't do jack.
Exactly. This has nothing to do with who our OC is and everything to do with who our QB is and how he performs against good teams.
Personally, if I'm responsible for calling a defense, I'm telling my guys that all the receiver dudes need to be covered. To me, that's critical.
Otherwise, you have guys trying to decide which dude to cover and which dude not to cover. That could result in one dude being covered by 6 guys and 3 other dudes not being covered at all. Or one dude might be covered by 5 guys and 2 other dudes might not be covered at all. Or, one dude might be covered by 3 guys and 1 other dude might be covered by 2 guys and another dude might be finger banging a waitress in the back of a mobile home winding its way through Mark Twain National Forest and there are bears out there ... and rabid skunks, too.
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Extra Point
10-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Personally, if I'm responsible for calling a defense, I'm telling my guys that all the receiver dudes need to be covered. To me, that's critical.
Otherwise, you have guys trying to decide which dude to cover and which dude not to cover. That could result in one dude being covered by 6 guys and 3 other dudes not being covered at all. Or one dude might be covered by 5 guys and 2 other dudes might not be covered at all. Or, one dude might be covered by 3 guys and 1 other dude might be covered by 2 guys and another dude might be finger banging a waitress in the back of a mobile home winding its way through Mark Twain National Forest and there are bears out there ... and rabid skunks, too.
FAX
I think I had what you're having.
Hoover
10-02-2011, 09:43 PM
Haley has been calling the plays in the 2nd half.
BigMeatballDave
10-02-2011, 09:45 PM
Haley has been calling the plays in the 2nd half.How do you know?
NJChiefsFan
10-02-2011, 10:36 PM
Last time I checked when given an actual 'chance' Cassel has done fairly well throwing it deep.
Thats some memory you have. Guess you are forgetting all the over throws, wide open recievers that he checks down deep off of, and picks.
You can see in the preseason how often Stanzi and even Palko throw it 20 plus yards. Its the same play book. Cassel is getting protected but earned that. They do call some screens but he also checks down a ton.
Iconic
10-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm sorry, but, that read like Snagglepuss was saying it. (Whatever you do, just don't exit stage right.)
lolwut?
Thats some memory you have. Guess you are forgetting all the over throws, wide open recievers that he checks down deep off of, and picks.
You can see in the preseason how often Stanzi and even Palko throw it 20 plus yards. Its the same play book. Cassel is getting protected but earned that. They do call some screens but he also checks down a ton.
If you cared enough to read the next couple of posts I had written you'd realize I wasn't talking about last season. I was only associating THIS game and last weeks second half. Now before you rat me out as selectively picking Cassel's best games. Let me add on I put 'chance' in quotes for a reason. What I mean by that is, games (or half's) in which we went pass first on offense and not throwing because it's third down and there's no other logical alternative. The over throws and check downs you speak of magically disappeared in last weeks second half and today's game. Why? Simple. Give Cassel an actual shot on Offense. Don't play around the ****ing QB, utilize him. This play calling is absolutely retarded. It's like they don't realize Cassel is most productive when he builds rapport with his receivers. He's not BRADY or MANNING. You can't expect to give him the ball on third down when you haven't given him a 'chance' the entire game to magically strike a beautiful deep ball. Football isn't played that way.
Okie_Apparition
10-02-2011, 11:03 PM
FYI:Cassel is the union dude
Haley is non-union
& carry on
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