View Full Version : Other Sports Epstein on the "cusp" of deal with Cubs
Carlota69
10-11-2011, 05:23 PM
http://jacobsmediablog.com/2011/10/10/kickass/
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 11, 2011 at 5:44pm CST]
Boston GM Theo Epstein is "on the cusp" of leaving the Red Sox for a job with the Cubs, according to Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald. Red Sox ownership still hopes to retain Epstein and if he is to leave, Boston will demand "something real" as compensation.
Epstein's proposed deal with the Cubs would include more power than he has in Boston, according to Buckley. The teams could make an announcement within a day or two and the situation will be "resolved very soon."
When Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts outlined his ideal GM candidate after firing Jim Hendry, he said he wanted someone with a commitment to player development and a strong analytical background who came from a background of success. Epstein, who became Boston's GM in 2002, certainly qualifies.
The Red Sox won two World Series titles under Epstein (2004, 2007) and have made six playoff appearances since 2003. They missed the postseason for the second consecutive year in 2011 after a September slide that cost manager Terry Francona his job. Our Transaction Tracker has every one of Epstein's moves as GM. Check out Tim Dierkes' look ahead to the Cubs' offseason for a preview of Epstein's first winter in the Windy City.
If this happens, guess where Pujols is going....
MahiMike
10-11-2011, 05:25 PM
Awesome. Wait till I tell Mr. Kotter!
jd1020
10-11-2011, 05:25 PM
Personally, I'd rather have Friedman because of what he does with no bank roll. But, although the Cubs aren't as big as Bostons market, he'll still have plenty of bank roll to buy a couple of WS.
SnakeXJones
10-11-2011, 05:26 PM
Epstein would be the last person I would want at GM
Brock
10-11-2011, 05:28 PM
I wonder if he'll trade too much for a Boston relief pitcher
This isn't even the most surprising news of the day for me. Apparently the White Sox were considering making Paul Konerko player/manager before hiring Robin Ventura.
jd1020
10-11-2011, 05:30 PM
I wonder if he'll trade too much for a Boston relief pitcher
Castro for Wakefield.
58kcfan89
10-11-2011, 05:58 PM
I don't pretend to know as much about baseball as a lot of people, but I'd like to see Beane try the Moneyball approach in a big market with some more cash to spend. I know the A's have been bad for the last few years, but whatever.
I'm not a fan of the Cubs, but I hope Epstein gets them a title so they can shut up with all the "lovable losers" crap.
Valiant
10-11-2011, 06:02 PM
I don't pretend to know as much about baseball as a lot of people, but I'd like to see Beane try the Moneyball approach in a big market with some more cash to spend. I know the A's have been bad for the last few years, but whatever.
I'm not a fan of the Cubs, but I hope Epstein gets them a title so they can shut up with all the "lovable losers" crap.
Or they can try this..
<iframe src="http://www.collegehumor.com/e/6620498" width="900" height="507" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2011, 06:06 PM
No more overrated GM in sports. The guy piggybacked the ideas of James and Beane with 5 times the payroll and pawned himself off as a genius in doing so.
Rams Fan
10-11-2011, 06:13 PM
If this happens, guess where Pujols is going....
He's the same guy that gave Lackey and Dice-K their deals....
Epstein would be the last person I would want at GM
Why is that?
Rams Fan
10-11-2011, 06:43 PM
Why is that?
Look at the free agents he has signed lately and their performance.
whoman69
10-11-2011, 06:50 PM
Awesome. Wait till I tell Mr. Kotter!
If he's going to GM for the Cubs, he might want to get a note from his mother.
Look at the free agents he has signed lately and their performance.
I'm not an Epstein fan or Red Sox fan but I don't understand why anyone would say "he's the last person I would want at GM". The Lackey signing was bad but the Gonzalez trade was great. Crawford had a bad season but that doesn't mean signing him was a bad decision. I'm an Orioles fan and I'd be quite happy to have the guy as GM. He's probably a bit overrated because of the Boston thing and the Moneyball thing but I think most teams could do worse.
whoman69
10-11-2011, 06:52 PM
Personally, I'd rather have Friedman because of what he does with no bank roll. But, although the Cubs aren't as big as Bostons market, he'll still have plenty of bank roll to buy a couple of WS.
Unfortunately that money is tied up in current player contracts that will be difficult to move.
whoman69
10-11-2011, 06:53 PM
Cubs fans are smoking Billie goat dung if they think they will get Pujols.
Sannyasi
10-11-2011, 06:54 PM
I'm not an Epstein fan or Red Sox fan but I don't understand why anyone would say "he's the last person I would want at GM". The Lackey signing was bad but the Gonzalez trade was great. Crawford had a bad season but that doesn't mean signing him was a bad decision. I'm an Orioles fan and I'd be quite happy to have the guy as GM. He's probably a bit overrated because of the Boston thing and the Moneyball thing but I think most teams could do worse.
Not to mention Epstein wanted no part of signing Lackey.
Rams Fan
10-11-2011, 06:57 PM
I'm not an Epstein fan or Red Sox fan but I don't understand why anyone would say "he's the last person I would want at GM". The Lackey signing was bad but the Gonzalez trade was great. Crawford had a bad season but that doesn't mean signing him was a bad decision. I'm an Orioles fan and I'd be quite happy to have the guy as GM. He's probably a bit overrated because of the Boston thing and the Moneyball thing but I think most teams could do worse.
I don't think Theo's a bad GM. I think he's above average and has made some poor decisions, but what GMs don't? I'm not saying the Crawford signing was a bad one(I think he'll rebound next season), but so many, many, many people overrate Theo.
I also think he misses Jed Hoyer a bit.
jd1020
10-11-2011, 07:42 PM
Unfortunately that money is tied up in current player contracts that will be difficult to move.
Well aware of that, being a Cubs fan, but there's around 30mil coming off the books this offseason. And with Zambrano having his foot in the door down in Miami thats 1 more terrible contract off the books. He'll have plenty of money to do something this offseason. Much more than last offseason where the big thing was signing Pena to a 10mil deal with only 5 of it due this year.
jd1020
10-11-2011, 07:46 PM
Cubs fans are smoking Billie goat dung if they think they will get Pujols.
They have the money to pull it off but I would hope to hell they wouldnt cave in to his demands. Personally I'd rather go for Fielder but if Pujols goes for a 6-7 year deal I wouldnt have anything against it.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2011, 08:23 PM
No way Prince Fielder's body holds up with that off-balance, full-tilt swing and his fatass build.
I'd be terrified to give that guy a contract.
Carlota69
10-11-2011, 08:41 PM
Not to mention Epstein wanted no part of signing Lackey.
I had not heard that. Do you have a link? Id love to show my fellow Angel fans.
I cant think of a GM that didnt make bad deal. I also believe you could do a ton worse than Theo Epstein. Tony Reagins comes to mind.
Carlota69
10-11-2011, 08:44 PM
8:25pm: ESPN's Karl Ravech hears that the compensation would involve prospects and/or cash, but no MLB players. Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe hears that the Red Sox wouldn't saddle the Cubs with bad contracts in the proposed arrangement and notes that Epstein remains undecided about the possible change (Twitter links).
8:05pm: Epstein would need Boston's approval to bring employees with him to Chicago, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (on Twitter). Carrie Muskat of MLB.com hears that the Cubs made an offer and Epstein is now deciding whether to leave the Red Sox (Twitter link).
7:20pm: Epstein's nearing a deal with the Cubs, Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com confirms. The deal isn't done yet, as some issues other than compensation have to be resolved. Meanwhile, Yahoo's Tim Brown hears that Red Sox ownership is making a play to keep Epstein, but won't ask him to continue in a job he doesn't want (Twitter link
Rams Fan
10-11-2011, 08:56 PM
I had not heard that. Do you have a link? Id love to show my fellow Angel fans.
I cant think of a GM that didnt make bad deal. I also believe you could do a ton worse than Theo Epstein. Tony Reagins comes to mind.
What no one mentions is that Anthulpolos traded Napoli for Frank Fucking Francisco.
Demonpenz
10-11-2011, 09:00 PM
reading JOPOs article about giving alot of chedda to players over 30 is scary
Carlota69
10-11-2011, 09:12 PM
What no one mentions is that Anthulpolos traded Napoli for Frank ****ing Francisco.
No. Reagins wins the "I suck more" award on that deal by trading Napoli for Wells and his worst contract in baseball. Besides, correct if Im wrong, but isnt that Riccardi that traded Naps and got rid of Wells? Anthulpolos was already blown out by the Jays at that point right? Or am I confused?
Sannyasi
10-11-2011, 09:12 PM
I had not heard that. Do you have a link? Id love to show my fellow Angel fans.
I cant think of a GM that didnt make bad deal. I also believe you could do a ton worse than Theo Epstein. Tony Reagins comes to mind.
Couldn't find a link, sorry. I've heard Bill Simmons say on his podcast multiple times that ownership forced the Lackey signing on Epstein in order to generate hype for the team. I wasn't aware that this was just a rumor/his opinion. Apologies.
Demonpenz
10-11-2011, 09:15 PM
No way Prince Fielder's body holds up with that off-balance, full-tilt swing and his fatass build.
I'd be terrified to give that guy a contract.
yeah.
Rams Fan
10-11-2011, 09:17 PM
No. Reagins wins the "I suck more" award on that deal by trading Napoli for Wells and his worst contract in baseball. Besides, correct if Im wrong, but isnt that Riccardi that traded Naps and got rid of Wells? Anthulpolos was already blown out by the Jays at that point right? Or am I confused?
Anthupolos has been the GM full time since 2010.
Anthupolos deserves a bunch of credit for dumping Wells' contract, but he got rid of Napoli for Francisco.
JD10367
10-11-2011, 09:45 PM
I'm a Red Sox fan, and even I think Theo has been overrated. The Cubs can have him.
jd1020
10-11-2011, 09:46 PM
I'm a Red Sox fan, and even I think Theo has been overrated. The Cubs can have him.
I'll gladly take him 100x over over Hendry.
Hoover
10-11-2011, 09:47 PM
I'll gladly take him 100x over over Hendry.
This
jd1020
10-11-2011, 09:52 PM
Just off the top of my head... Dustin Pedroia, Clay Buchholz, and Jacoby Ellsbury were all drafted by the Red Sox. Something Hendry can only dream of, dude was a bafoon.
chiefzilla1501
10-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Theo's made some horrendous decisions. Lackey was stupid. Crawford was really stupid.
But you can't take away the fact that Epstein when he first came to Boston pieced together one of the most impressive rosters in baseball. Great value guys like Papi and Millar. Built internally with guys like Pedroia and Youkilis. I don't know if he got cocky or just inherited a big pocketbook. But if he goes back to basics, he could do real well inChicago.
chiefzilla1501
10-11-2011, 10:20 PM
I don't pretend to know as much about baseball as a lot of people, but I'd like to see Beane try the Moneyball approach in a big market with some more cash to spend. I know the A's have been bad for the last few years, but whatever.
I'm not a fan of the Cubs, but I hope Epstein gets them a title so they can shut up with all the "lovable losers" crap.
money ball is dead. Beane knows it's dead. That's why he's lost his edge. Because GMs saw it worked and now they're doing it too. Beane tried something new by focusing on defense. It hasn't worked. Now he's not very good at all.
jd1020
10-11-2011, 10:24 PM
Theo's made some horrendous decisions. Lackey was stupid. Crawford was really stupid.
But you can't take away the fact that Epstein when he first came to Boston pieced together one of the most impressive rosters in baseball. Great value guys like Papi and Millar. Built internally with guys like Pedroia and Youkilis. I don't know if he got cocky or just inherited a big pocketbook. But if he goes back to basics, he could do real well inChicago.
I believe Youkilis was drafted before Epstein got there.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2011, 10:29 PM
money ball is dead. Beane knows it's dead. That's why he's lost his edge. Because GMs saw it worked and now they're doing it too. Beane tried something new by focusing on defense. It hasn't worked. Now he's not very good at all.
Moneyball isn't about valuing any one specific trait, it's about finding inefficiencies in the market. If defense is undervalued and saves you runs, go after defense. If OBP is undervalued, go after OBP. If *gasp* speed actually gains you more bases than it costs you, go after it.
Very few people in the general population ever understood the concept. It's just like an opening line in Vegas. Sharps go after the inefficiencies in the market, not a specific trait.
'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2011, 10:41 PM
FWIW, Epstein didn't draft Youkilis. He also didn't acquire Beckett, although that was probably a bad trade for the Sox given what Hanley Ramirez turned into.
He signed Renteria to a horrible deal, in the process forfeiting the pick that the Cardinals used for Colby Rasmus.
He destroyed his office after failing to sign Jose Contreras.
He signed Brad Penny, John Smoltz, Julio Lugo, Mike Cameron, JD Drew, and Dice K.
That's far beyond Carl Peterson levels of FAIL in FA.
Hootie
10-11-2011, 11:52 PM
FWIW, Epstein didn't draft Youkilis. He also didn't acquire Beckett, although that was probably a bad trade for the Sox given what Hanley Ramirez turned into.
He signed Renteria to a horrible deal, in the process forfeiting the pick that the Cardinals used for Colby Rasmus.
He destroyed his office after failing to sign Jose Contreras.
He signed Brad Penny, John Smoltz, Julio Lugo, Mike Cameron, JD Drew, and Dice K.
That's far beyond Carl Peterson levels of FAIL in FA.
all that said...he must have done something right...
and he'll have all that $$$ to fuck up with in Chicago, too...can't do worse than Hendry
Amnorix
10-12-2011, 05:59 AM
No more overrated GM in sports. The guy piggybacked the ideas of James and Beane with 5 times the payroll and pawned himself off as a genius in doing so.
Wow, we agree on something!
He's had some TRULY disastrous signings. Some I don't much fault him for (Renteria), but some you could pretty much see coming a mile away (Lackey, JD Drew).
Amnorix
10-12-2011, 06:01 AM
FWIW, Epstein didn't draft Youkilis. He also didn't acquire Beckett, although that was probably a bad trade for the Sox given what Hanley Ramirez turned into.
Well, for all his talent on the field, word is Ramirez isn't a great model for guys off the field. RS seem to have enough issues in that area without adding to it. Can you imagine the dysfunctionality with Hanley and Manny? Might have been ugly.
Besides, Beckett = 2007 WS. Hard to argue with it, though obviously he's been very inconsistent over his career with the Sox.
He signed Brad Penny, John Smoltz, Julio Lugo, Mike Cameron, JD Drew, and Dice K.
That's far beyond Carl Peterson levels of FAIL in FA.
Agreed, total fail overall in FA. He's pretty damn good in the draft though. But on balance, GREATLY overrated IMHO.
Amnorix
10-12-2011, 06:02 AM
all that said...he must have done something right...
Drafting, mostly.
Carlota69
10-12-2011, 06:24 AM
Couldn't find a link, sorry. I've heard Bill Simmons say on his podcast multiple times that ownership forced the Lackey signing on Epstein in order to generate hype for the team. I wasn't aware that this was just a rumor/his opinion. Apologies.
No apologies necessary. I belong to an Angels forum and we were debating epsteins qualifications for the GM gig in Anaheim and people were using Theos' signing of Lackey as a reason he wasnt qualified. I just wanted to put some fire on it:D
Carlota69
10-12-2011, 06:26 AM
Anthupolos has been the GM full time since 2010.
Anthupolos deserves a bunch of credit for dumping Wells' contract, but he got rid of Napoli for Francisco.
OK, Im confused. All the same Reagins is the laughing stock in that chain of events...
Rams Fan
10-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Theo's made some horrendous decisions. Lackey was stupid. Crawford was really stupid.
Giving a pitcher that much money, at Lackey's age, isn't the greatest choice.
But I doubt Crawford will be as bad as he was this year.
Rams Fan
10-12-2011, 03:28 PM
OK, Im confused. All the same Reagins is the laughing stock in that chain of events...
Sciosia probably has more say in what goes on personnel wise for the Angels than Reagins ever did.
I think Sciosia's a great manager, but the reason why Jeff Mathis is still an Angel is baffling.
Reagins wasn't a great GM, but he was no Dave Littlefield.
Carlota69
10-12-2011, 03:31 PM
Sciosia probably has more say in what goes on personnel wise for the Angels than Reagins ever did.
I think Sciosia's a great manager, but the reason why Jeff Mathis is still an Angel is baffling.
Reagins wasn't a great GM, but he was no Dave Littlefield.
Yeah, the Math-IS situation is baffling. Apparently tho, he was ranked #2 in defensive catcher this year? I heard that on the Angels board. Ill look for a link...
Rams Fan
10-12-2011, 03:35 PM
I believe Reagins downfall was the he couldn't find a way to add new pieces to their corps.
He was dealt a pretty good hand after Stoneman left, and he did get Texeira and Haren(for a really good deal, might I add), but he got rid of Napoli and signed Fernando Rodney and Fuentes.
Carlota69
10-12-2011, 03:39 PM
I believe Reagins downfall was the he couldn't find a way to add new pieces to their corps.
He was dealt a pretty good hand after Stoneman left, and he did get Texeira and Haren(for a really good deal, might I add), but he got rid of Napoli and signed Fernando Rodney and Fuentes.
The Wells deal, added with Napolis dominance over us this past season, put the dirt on the coffin.
BTW, heres the link on defensive positions, but mathis isnt considered#2. But the dude, Bill James , thinks he deserves to be mentioned. Whatever.:D
http://www.billjamesonline.com/who_are_the_fielding_bible_award_gold_glove_contenders_part_i/
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/12/red_sox_unity_dedication_dissolved_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full
Pretty scathing report on just how badly the Red Sox fell apart at the end of the season. Just one excerpt:
...Instead, Boston’s three elite starters went soft, their pitching as anemic as their work ethic. The indifference of Beckett, Lester, and Lackey in a time of crisis can be seen in what team sources say became their habit of drinking beer, eating fast-food fried chicken, and playing video games in the clubhouse during games while their teammates tried to salvage a once-promising season...
Hootie
10-12-2011, 08:26 PM
lmao
"fast-food fried chicken"
seems like something that may have happened once...I would put more stock into i but they added the word "chicken" making it somewhat unbelievable to me
According to the article they have been doing that on a regular basis since late 2010. But who knows.
Ultra Peanut
10-13-2011, 04:36 AM
If the Grizzlies hire Danny Ainge in a couple of years I'm gonna be kind of freaked out.
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