Haley's approach to training camp.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Well, this is a topic that has been discussed at length, but I wonder if anyone has changed their opinion as much as I have?

At first I was in favor of it. I thought that bringing the guys up to speed slowly was a good move. I felt like it would help prevent injuries.

Then, of course, we lost Moeaki.

Then we got blown out by the Bills and lost Berry.

Then we got blown out by the Lions and lost Charles.

Then we lost to the Chargers.

At this point, I though, I was very, very wrong... and so was Haley. I didn't bash Haley, because I had originally agreed. I know I am not the 'professional'.... but if I agree with something, I try not to be hypocritical and bash it when it doesn't work.

However, right now, the Chiefs have by far the shortest injury list in the league. What originally drew this to my attention is the injuries that the Raiders had to deal with last week and the injuries the Chargers are dealing with this week. The Chiefs have only Lewis on the injury report and he will likely play.

The Chiefs have won three straight games and lost a close game IN San Diego.

The Chiefs have been the better team in the second half of the last four games, which at least 'seems' to indicate that they are the more 'conditioned' team.

The Chiefs are poised to be tied for first in the AFC West AFTER an 0-3 start.

I know the Chiefs would have probably been more competetive in the first two games if they took a different approach to the offseason, but would they be 'better' right now?

I can't remember the Moeaki injury, but if the exact same plays happen with Berry and Charles... they probably still have those injuries.

Anyways, I was for it before I was against it, now I am starting to wonder if I should be for it agan. I will be running for president soon.

[evenfall]

Todd Haley definitely failed to adequately train those guys' ACLs.

[notorious]

We beat a winless Minnesota team at home.


We beat a horric Indy team on the road.


We anally raped a QB and Coach-less Raiders team on the road.




Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet.

http://www.moviemarket.com/library/photos/176/176963.jpg

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Todd Haley definitely failed to adequately train those guys' ACLs.

That is something to consider.... but, were those injuries that would have happened no matter what?

I don't know.

[notorious]

That is something to consider.... but, were those injuries that would have happened no matter what?

I don't know.


And we will never know the answer.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

We beat a winless Minnesota team at home.


We beat a horric Indy team on the road.


We anally raped a QB and Coach-less Raiders team on the road.




Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet.

http://www.moviemarket.com/library/photos/176/176963.jpg

#1) This is the NFL and two of those games were on the road. I know they aren't the NFL's 'best'.... but there is something to be said for beating a team on the road... no matter how bad.

#2) I am not saying the Chiefs are going to win the division, or even make the playoffs.

Now, having said that, if you look at the last four games, the Chiefs were the better team in the second half. Why?

Also, the Chiefs have by far the shortest injury report. Why?

This could all be a fluke. I am just starting to think that Haley's approach to the offseason may prove to be a good thing over the course of the season.

Time will tell.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

And we will never know the answer.

Well, I could argue both sides.

#1) If those plays happened the exact same way then they would probably sustain the same injuries.

#2) If the Chiefs were better prepared over the course of the offseason, the players might have been in better position and not suffered those injuries.

Good news is that for the next 10 years, we won't have to worry about how the Chiefs will handle a work stoppage shortened preaseason.

[milkman]

I do think that we are starting to see the approach he took pay dividends now on the injury front.

I also know that there is no amount of conditioning that will make the knee any less susceptible to the ACL injuries.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I do think that we are starting to see the approach he took pay dividends now on the injury front.

I also know that there is no amount of conditioning that will make the knee any less susceptible to the ACL injuries.

I agree with both points. That said, one could aruge that the players would be in better position if they had been better prepared.

The thing that might have prevented those injuries is technique. Although, that may be a stretch.

Especially with Charles.... his was just a freaking fluke.

[Walterer]

really great idea dude!!

[milkman]

really great idea dude!!

What?

[CoMoChief]

#1) This is the NFL and two of those games were on the road. I know they aren't the NFL's 'best'.... but there is something to be said for beating a team on the road... no matter how bad.

#2) I am not saying the Chiefs are going to win the division, or even make the playoffs.

Now, having said that, if you look at the last four games, the Chiefs were the better team in the second half. Why?

Also, the Chiefs have by far the shortest injury report. Why?

This could all be a fluke. I am just starting to think that Haley's approach to the offseason may prove to be a good thing over the course of the season.

Time will tell.

Yeah, there not the best......they're the worst.


So far, all the Chiefs have proved this year is that they're not the worst team in the NFL. However they get beaten by the good teams/teams that are ascending. That needs to change if KC thinks they have a shot at getting into the postseason and defending their division title.

I don't think the Chargers are that good....in fact I think we stomp them MNF.

The next 3 games I think the Chiefs win SD, MIA, DEN (6-3)

The next 5 games is our murderer's row, @NE, PIT, @CHI, @NYJ, GB, however I don't think this stretch is going to be as hard as some people think. Yes, NE will stomp us...PIT really hasn't been that impressive this season (though they had a nice last couple games IIRC). CHI is a beatable team even though it's at Soldier Field in Dec. The Jets are terrible so that gives us a chance. And without a doubt, we get humiliated as GB puts up 40+ on us. If we can go no worse than 2-3 in that stretch at worst that puts KC at 8-6. If we can beat PIT at home and go 3-2....even better, we have a chance to be 9-5, but I'll go with 8-6.

Our last 2 games are against hated division rivals. OAK at home we will probably win, they're a complete mess right now, and I still don't think Palmer is going to be worth a shit. We never play well in DEN but Tebow sucks, so I think we can win. If we're going to wear down these teams, this is the time to make a little bit of ground.......10-6 wins the division just like last year, and I think somewhere down the line the Chargers will tank.

Chiefs final record.....10-6 (AFCW Champs)

Never thought I'd say that after how we started out, esp the first couple games into the 1st half of the 3rd game. and considering all we've lost, if we manage to do something like this, Haley deserves to stick around and hell....may even deserve to be NFL's COTY.

[MGRS13]

I was on board for the training camp plan it seemed to make since. It didn't work, Haley has said as much. He took responsibility for the crappy games, way more then i can say for Herm or pussy boy Vermiel. Haley is a stand up guy and tried something out of the box. It didn't work live and learn. The acl's? Whacha gonna do? Berrys hit would have lead to a fine maybe even a suspension if he had been a qb. As far as Moeaki goes the guy hurt his knee in a pick up game of BB in Wheaton Ill. Its the worst kept secret in Wheaton. He hurt his knee playing bb with his high school friends from the football team. He called the head coach of the wheaton High ff team and told him he was gonna have to fake an injury so it wouldnt effect his pay. the guy is a douche.

[chiefqueen]

I agree with both points. That said, one could aruge that the players would be in better position if they had been better prepared.

The thing that might have prevented those injuries is technique. Although, that may be a stretch.

Especially with Charles.... his was just a freaking fluke.

I guess you could blame Haley on that for not telling his players not to sacrifice their bodies to preserve the opposing team's mascot. (/sarcasm)

[notorious]

The ACL injuries were a freak occurance.


The team playing like dogshit through week 3 1/2 was not.



It is also a fact that playing some shitty teams managed to gloss over some obvious flaws. If we win on Monday I will start to believe, especially if Cassel overcomes himself.


Until then,"Burn me once, shame on you, burn me 11tybillion times shame on me."

[okcchief]

I think the slow approach got us off to a slow start. Record may have been the same, but don't think the first 2 scores would have been as lopsided. Cassel needed more reps. He looked like the worst QB in the history of the NFL last year and this year the first few games. Now he looks like a bottom 1/4 of the NFL QB with good WR. I keep praying he gets hurt so Stanzi gets a shot, but knowing Haley he would fail with Palko's worthless ass for 3 games first.

There is nothing you can do to prevent injuries other than stay in peak condition. Most NFL players do that, and our players that got injured definitely were. Comes down to players who are prone to being injured and fluke shit.

[Fritz88]

He himself admitted that it was a failed approach.

He himself attributed the team's latest success to something entirely different than being conditioned vs nonconditioned.

It was a bad decision and we are lucky to be sitting at 3-3 now.

[BossChief]

Give this team those three players back and keep Jones away from Baldwin and we would be 4-2 right now...maybe 5-1cause we were playing Detroit well till Charles went down.

[Bowser]

What?

Fucking Bots. We've had a rash of them lately.

[Bowser]

I was for the way Haley brought them out of the gates initially, but obviously that wasn't the way to do it. Whatever they've been doing the last month, they need to keep doing it.

[BossChief]

He himself admitted that it was a failed approach.

He himself attributed the team's latest success to something entirely different than being conditioned vs nonconditioned.

It was a bad decision and we are lucky to be sitting at 3-3 now.

The last two games he pointed to conditioning as a big reason for the wins.

[BigMeatballDave]

Those knee injuries had exactly ZERO to do with conditioning.

[Fritz88]

The last two games he pointed to conditioning as a big reason for the wins.

I would like to see a quote or I will Tebow that you get struck by a lightning.

I was referencing an article that was on the star or Silver's column.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GloryDayz]

Ask Todd, he said it was wrong...

[FAX]

I would like to see a quote or I will Tebow that you get struck by a lightning.

I was referencing an article that was on the star or Silver's column.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's true. There are links, too.

Haley (in his post game pressers) has mentioned on at least two occasions that the Chiefs are wearing down the enemy combatants in the second half of games. He also mentioned that they are taunting these worn-out opponents with the waggy finger, the raspberry sound, and the slightly bent ass point.

FAX

[Molitoth]

I was all for Haley trying something new during the offseason. Even though it didn't work I'm glad we saw some originality.

It was a lockout year with new rules so was also the best year to attempt something different. We will see what he does next year when there is no lockout.

[-King-]

That is something to consider.... but, were those injuries that would have happened no matter what?

I don't know.
ROFL, you do realize he was being sarcastic right?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SenselessChiefsFan]

ROFL, you do realize he was being sarcastic right?
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't. I see worse points on here that aren't. I try not to assume....

[Deberg_1990]

I think it proves that football injuries are not something you can control unless you just flat out never play. They can happen, anytime, anywhere in any situation. You could play every down in every game of the season and never get hurt. You could play 1 down in 1 game and get seriously hurt.

[Titty Meat]

They played 3 bad teams and finally realized you have to work for victories. The first 2 games were close for a bit and they just gave up.

[BigMeatballDave]

They played 3 bad teams and finally realized you have to work for victories. The first 2 games were close for a bit and they just gave up.Turnovers absolutely KILLED them in those games.

[Rausch]

We can look back now and see Haley's approach to TC/preseason was total $3it.

Not only did we suffer injuries (his whole point being avoiding them) but they were also to the impact players who see the most contact.

The HB, SS, and TE.

He completely fucked up the early season strategy, put the team in an 0-3 hole, and still has the team behind him.

The team still kept improving.

I don't want to say "never gave up." Herm's teams never gave up but kept on losing. This team keeps getting better.

Keeps growing...

[NJChiefsFan]

Yeah if the current team played the first 2 games this way we certainly don't lose the way we lost, if we lose at all. Both those games were close and then blew open. I am sure Haley would change things if he had the chance. That approach didn't make us this way, it made us fight to overcome it.

[GoHuge]

Well good so that means according to the OT if we keep ascending they way we are then we should beat Green Bay 37-10!

[FAX]

The loss of Berry & Charles (and Moeaki, of course) was highly detrimental to our efforts. No question about it. Those guys were our pro-bowlers, for God's sake.

Merely the emotional and mental issues associated with watching those guys go down had to significantly affect our overall performance. On top of that, you have to re-scheme, re-coach, and re-practice a bunch of stuff in order to compensate ... or try to. It's a whole lot like female circumcision, when you think about it.

I can't, however, glom onto a correlation between our off-season program and the ACL injuries in this case. Although it's true that certain exercises and drills can help prevent some ACL injuries, for the most part, people who benefit from that type of preventive effort are the weekend warrior types ... not professional athletes at this level of conditioning. Berry and Charles are probably at the top of the bell curve when it comes to balance, speed, and lower body strength in the first place. It simply defies logic that, at their level, the lack of a training camp contributed to their injuries.

FAX

[O.city]

The loss of Berry & Charles (and Moeaki, of course) was highly detrimental to our efforts. No question about it. Those guys were our pro-bowlers, for God's sake.

Merely the emotional and mental issues associated with watching those guys go down had to significantly affect our overall performance. On top of that, you have to re-scheme, re-coach, and re-practice a bunch of stuff in order to compensate ... or try to. It's a whole lot like female circumcision, when you think about it.

I can't, however, glom onto a correlation between our off-season program and the ACL injuries in this case. Although it's true that certain exercises and drills can help prevent some ACL injuries, for the most part, people who benefit from that type of preventive effort are the weekend warrior types ... not professional athletes at this level of conditioning. Berry and Charles are probably at the top of the bell curve when it comes to balance, speed, and lower body strength in the first place. It simply defies logic that, at their level, the lack of a training camp contributed to their injuries.

FAX

This. There is no way the training camp caused the ACL tears. Maybe, Maybe you could say Moeaki's but i really wouldn't.

[BigMeatballDave]

We can look back now and see Haley's approach to TC/preseason was total $3it.

Not only did we suffer injuries (his whole point being avoiding them) but they were also to the impact players who see the most contact.

The HB, SS, and TE.

He completely fucked up the early season strategy, put the team in an 0-3 hole, and still has the team behind him.

The team still kept improving.

I don't want to say "never gave up." Herm's teams never gave up but kept on losing. This team keeps getting better.

Keeps growing...Its been mentioned several times. ACL injuries have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CONDITIONING.

[jd1020]

Even if the Chiefs just beat GB, NE, and NO I don't see how that changes anyone's opinion on how Haley handled camp/preseason. The team came out flat and was dominated for 2 1/2 games to start the season.

[GordonGekko]

We beat a winless Minnesota team at home.


We beat a horric Indy team on the road.


We anally raped a QB and Coach-less Raiders team on the road.




Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet.

http://www.moviemarket.com/library/photos/176/176963.jpg


Boom

[BigMeatballDave]

Even if the Chiefs just beat GB, NE, and NO I don't see how that changes anyone's opinion on how Haley handled camp/preseason. The team came out flat and was dominated for 2 1/2 games to start the season.True, but if that actually happens, Haley should be commended for an excellent coaching job.

[Direckshun]

I probably could have had a civil "agree to disagree" regard for Haley's approach had he peaked the starters in the third preseason game. At least then we would have at least dovetailed with the rest of the league.

But instead, we peaked our starters out in the fourth, which is absolutely assinine playing Bowe, Charles, and Cassel into the fourth quarter.

Oh yeah. And we lost.

[BigMeatballDave]

We beat a winless Minnesota team at home.


We beat a horric Indy team on the road.


We anally raped a QB and Coach-less Raiders team on the road.




Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet.

http://www.moviemarket.com/library/photos/176/176963.jpgThere's a true defeatist attitude... :)

[milkman]

Its been mentioned several times. ACL injuries have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CONDITIONING.

Wasting keystrokes.

Dumbass hates Todd Haley (and misses Marty), and is hell bent to blame him.

You can't fix stupid.

[milkman]

Doesn't matter what you think of the preseason plan, it's pretty obvious that it had a negative affect in the start of the season.

The team was clearly not ready to play.

That being said, this team is the healthiest team overall in the league right now, and playing good hard nosed football, and overcoming it's shortcoming at QB to win some games.

[beach tribe]

And we will never know the answer.

Yes we will. If Stevie Johnson Rams his helmet into the side of your knee, it's gonna blow. No matter how conditioned you are.
I also see the Charles injury as one that had nothing to do with conditioning, and Moeaki.........unfortunately something was going to break eventually.
I don't blame Todd Haley one ****ing bit for any of their injuries. Just horrible ****ing luck.

[Mr. Laz]

injuries happen or not


getting steamrolled those first 2 games on the other hand ......

[Deberg_1990]

if it helps, the Packers at this time last year were 3-3. : )

[HotRoute]

People need to start looking toward the future, not what's already happened. The losses and the injuries were hopefully a bump in the road in what might be an awesome turnaround

[BigMeatballDave]

if it helps, the Packers at this time last year were 3-3. : )It doesnt help. They have Aaron Rodgers...

[milkman]

It doesnt help. They have Aaron Rodgers...

Yes, but did they have Sabby Pisscatelli?

[BossChief]

injuries happen or not


getting steamrolled those first 2 games on the other hand ......

Let me put it this way.

I would rather us get steamrolled 2 times to start a year that our coach decided to give our young players the best chance to stay healthy (when there really is no template in how to handle an offseason like that) than to win 2 games to start the year and lose a single talented player to an injury that could have been avoided with a different path.

If you come back on that statement by using Moeaki, Berry or Charles as reason it was a fail...you are a bigger fool that I already take you for.

In short, I expect you to come back and argue that the injuries were the effect of Haleys approach.

Big picture > Small picture

Every

Time

[BigMeatballDave]

injuries happen or not


getting steamrolled those first 2 games on the other hand ......They lose those games regardless. 9 turnovers in 2 games is deadly to a team that cannot afford to make many mistakes.

[BigMeatballDave]

Yes, but did they have Sabby Pisscatelli?Oh, shit. I forgot about him. Print 'em...

[Nightfyre]

Doesn't matter what you think of the preseason plan, it's pretty obvious that it had a negative affect in the start of the season.

The team was clearly not ready to play.

That being said, this team is the healthiest team overall in the league right now, and playing good hard nosed football, and overcoming it's shortcoming at QB to win some games.

This. I would also like to point out that our team is still running around at high speed at the end of the games and the other teams are huffing and puffing. this was very evident in the Raiders game.

I think Haley's typical pre-season routine is awesome. I think his most recent approach, due to time constraints, left us unprepared to start the season and may have cost us a game or two. However, it certainly helped us close-out a couple of these wins. If it helps us close out more games, his approach may be undersung brilliance. JMO.

[Ming the Merciless]

That is something to consider.... but, were those injuries that would have happened no matter what?

I don't know.

I think those injuries had nothing to do with Haley's approach...The culpability of these inuries lies somewhere in between bad luck and a massively shortened off-season training period.

[Marcellus]

injuries happen or not


getting steamrolled those first 2 games on the other hand ......

It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

We were 4-2 last year and then stunk it up the last 3 games.

Finish is everything.

[BigMeatballDave]

I think those injuries had nothing to do with Haley's approach...The culpability of these inuries lies somewhere in between bad luck and a massively shortened off-season training period.Its 100% bad luck

[Nightfyre]

This. I would also like to point out that our team is still running around at high speed at the end of the games and the other teams are huffing and puffing. this was very evident in the Raiders game.

I think Haley's typical pre-season routine is awesome. I think his most recent approach, due to time constraints, left us unprepared to start the season and may have cost us a game or two. However, it certainly helped us close-out a couple of these wins. If it helps us close out more games, his approach may be undersung brilliance. JMO.

I now think Haley's off-season approach has won us more games than it has lost. There is no doubt that the conditioning program is what allowed the defense to remain competitive tonight despite how long they were on the field.

[FAX]

Hali made a very interesting comment in his post-game interview.

He said something like, "I probably shouldn't tell you this, but Todd told me personally that we might not be very good at the beginning of the season, but we'd improve if we just stuck with the program."

That's paraphrased ... but real, real close.

FAX

[MahiMike]

I haven't changed my opinion. I was behind it from the beginning and still like it. Other teams have had poor starts too. Look at the Eagles. They'll end up winning that division.