Pioli has praise for Haley

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/07/3253790/pioli-has-praise-for-haley.html


Coach Todd Haley will be moving into the final year of his contract next year, and while general manager Scott Pioli wouldn’t say whether the Chiefs would extend his contract, his comments seemed to indicate they would.

Pioli praised Haley on Monday in an interview with The Kansas City Star.

“I think he’s doing a good job of growing into the job,” Pioli said. “He’s adjusted well to changes in personnel, changes in roster. He’s adjusted well to staff changes. This team has continued to evolve and continued to develop. Players have developed well. That’s Todd and the whole coaching staff.”

Echoing comments made recently by Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt, Pioli also said he has a good relationship with Haley.

“I think it’s a good working relationship. I really do,” Pioli said. “We’re both focused on the same thing, which is winning football games.”

Asked whether they work well enough together to allow the Chiefs to win a Super Bowl, Pioli said yes.

“Absolutely,” Pioli said. “We talk often. Our approach hasn’t changed in terms of the way and the amount of communication from two years ago, a year ago. It’s the same. It hasn’t changed in terms of the volume or anything else.”

Pioli said he meets with Haley regularly during the season to discuss roster needs for upcoming games. The 4-4 Chiefs are tied for first place with Oakland and San Diego in the AFC West and play the 3-5 Broncos on Sunday at Arrowhead Stadium.

“We make sure we have solid communication, particularly right after a game, the Monday and the Tuesday,” Pioli said. “We evaluate performance and where we’re at as far as health and where we are for the upcoming game. We’ll talk about the game plan for the upcoming game and then what we’re going to do as far as roster makeup.”

The Chiefs have a regular-season record of 18-22 halfway through Haley’s third season. They finished 4-12 in 2009, his first year with the Chiefs, and then last season went 10-6 and won their first division title in seven years.

This year, the Chiefs started 0-3, losing their first two games by a combined 79 points. By the time they finished their second game of the season, a 48-3 defeat at Detroit, the Chiefs had lost safety Eric Berry, running back Jamaal Charles and tight end Tony Moeaki for the year with knee injuries.

But the Chiefs rallied to win four straight games before falling to 4-4 with Sunday’s 31-3 loss to previously winless Miami.

Pioli indicated he wasn’t tempted to fire Haley or otherwise get discouraged when the Chiefs started the season so poorly.

“I didn’t think that was who we were when we were 0-2, and that’s why I’m not surprised when we were able to continue to improve and begin to play good football,” Pioli said. “What you don’t want to do is get caught up in the dramatic swing of any one game or two games. I don’t think you can evaluate that small a portion of the season. That’s one-eighth of the season.

“I believe we have a good football team and a good coaching staff. We have a good, young football team that is continuing to develop.”

Haley, at his news conference Monday, called the first half of the season “adventurous” for the Chiefs. They’ve been outscored by 70 points even though they’ve won as many games as they’ve lost.

“It’s been a different set of encyclopedias from the start,” Haley said. “Everybody’s had the same challenges, with the lack of offseason and some of those things. I think it has led to a unique year thus far. I said that in training camp, that I thought it would be a wild ride, and it hasn’t disappointed.”

Haley said he hoped the Chiefs’ performances would be more even over the season’s second half. Including the game against Miami, the Chiefs have lost three games by four or more touchdowns.

“Consistency is the key to being a good team or a great team,” Haley said. “Very rarely do you see a team that’s inconsistent be one of the last teams standing. Consistency is going to be one of those things that we’re really going to work hard on in all areas.

“We’ve got a team that’s still developing and still getting better and is still a work in progress. I’m excited about these guys.”

[Bugeater]

This is another one of those "well what the hell do you expect him to say" type of things.

[Taco John]

This is another one of those "well what the hell do you expect him to say" type of things.

You expect him to put some pressure on the coach if he has any doubts about the direction he's going.

[FAX]

Okay Pioli. How about this? How about giving Haley a quarterback who isn't reading at a fourth grade level and counts with his fingers?

FAX

[DonkyPuncher]

You expect him to put some pressure on the coach if he has any doubts about the direction he's going.

I'm sick of Haley blaming himself for every loss and every mistake, these guys are professional football players and it's about time they start taking some blame for playing like sh*t. That said I think Haley should be the coach of the future for this team and deserves a contract ext.. Yup i'm a noob!!!

[FAX]

A N00b (sp?), Mr. DonkeyPuncher. Yet, a N00b (sp?) that's developing and growing into the job.

FAX

[Dave Lane]

Okay Pioli. How about this? How about giving Haley a quarterback who isn't reading at a fourth grade level and counts with his fingers?

FAX

Proof Pioli hates Haley. :)

[loochy]

I'm sick of Haley blaming himself for every loss and every mistake, these guys are professional football players and it's about time they start taking some blame for playing like sh*t. That said I think Haley should be the coach of the future for this team and deserves a contract ext.. Yup i'm a noob!!!

I pretty much agree, but I think he needs a new OC (and obviously a QB). Offensive playcalling is atrocious.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I noticed he didn't mention that if he would give Haley a real Quarterback they would be SB contenders.

[Rausch]

I noticed he didn't mention that if he would give Haley a real Quarterback they would be SB contenders.

Haley get an extension yet?...

[cabletech94]

please cue the: well, bye!

shit's written on the wall.

[durtyrute]

please cue the: well, bye!

shit's written on the wall.

I was thinking the same thing. He's not going to come out and say, "fuck em', he's toast", but we can all see it coming. I for one hope it doesn't and I'll stand by my statement that I want Haley to be the coach for the next ten years. Just please learn time management and get the whole playcalling thing figured out. You are driving us crazy with that shit. Oh yea get a OC as well.



















And dump Cassel too

[Hydrae]

I pretty much agree, but I think he needs a new OC (and obviously a QB). Offensive playcalling is atrocious.

I just want us to have a competent OC (Muir is not that) that is here for more than a single season. I think this would go a long way to that consistency Haley says he is looking for. Changing OC every year is not helping Cassel. Not sure how much good it would do but it couldn't hurt.

[aturnis]

I'm sick of Haley blaming himself for every loss and every mistake, these guys are professional football players and it's about time they start taking some blame for playing like sh*t. That said I think Haley should be the coach of the future for this team and deserves a contract ext.. Yup i'm a noob!!!

How would throwing the players under the bus garner Haley any respect from his players? If anything they would resent him for it, even if they knew it to be the truth. Not only that, but it's not as though Haley and his coaching staff are without blame, I think we all agree the game plan on defense and lack of adjustments were terrible on their part. You guys criticized a coach who takes the blame, but praise QB's who do the same. Get a clue.

[aturnis]

A bunch of you apparently see writing on the wall. I don't, I see a guy who will undoubtedly get an extension. Probably be our coach for some time. Thank God.

[The Franchise]

I just want us to have a competent OC (Muir is not that) that is here for more than a single season. I think this would go a long way to that consistency Haley says he is looking for. Changing OC every year is not helping Cassel. Not sure how much good it would do but it couldn't hurt.

Cassel being a piece of shit is not helping Cassel. He could have Weis as his OC for 5 years and he would still be fucking mediocre.

[DonkyPuncher]

I pretty much agree, but I think he needs a new OC (and obviously a QB). Offensive playcalling is atrocious.

Maybe Haley is doing this on purpose, making Cassel look even worse than he is, he never really wanted Cassel anyways, pretty sure that was a Pioli deal because truth be told he could call the plays without there being any problem and i'm sure he is way better at it than Muir

[jspchief]

You expect him to put some pressure on the coach if he has any doubts about the direction he's going.In the media? No I definitely don't expect that, unless he's Al Davis or Jerry Jones.

[HemiEd]

How would throwing the players under the bus garner Haley any respect from his players? If anything they would resent him for it, even if they knew it to be the truth. Not only that, but it's not as though Haley and his coaching staff are without blame, I think we all agree the game plan on defense and lack of adjustments were terrible on their part. You guys criticized a coach who takes the blame, but praise QB's who do the same. Get a clue.

Well said. We saw Herm blame everyone but himself, including the players, week in and week out. How did that work out?

[Sofa King]

Maybe Haley is doing this on purpose, making Cassel look even worse than he is, he never really wanted Cassel anyways, pretty sure that was a Pioli deal because truth be told he could call the plays without there being any problem and i'm sure he is way better at it than Muir

Yes. Because coaches in their first head coaching job, and possibly last if they fail, love to make their QB look like shit. Nothing makes them happier than making the players on their team worse.

[Chiefnj2]

Maybe Haley is doing this on purpose, making Cassel look even worse than he is, he never really wanted Cassel anyways, pretty sure that was a Pioli deal because truth be told he could call the plays without there being any problem and i'm sure he is way better at it than Muir

Haley can call plays without any problem? Did you happen to miss the 2009 season?

[O.city]

Haley can call plays without any problem? Did you happen to miss the 2009 season?

Granted, with the talent we had on the field in that season, I don't think it mattered who called plays.

[aturnis]

Dude, the emergence of Charles, Bowe and Moeaki probably had a hell of a lot to do with why Weis was so successful in comparison to Haley's 2009 season as OC. Not only that, but Weis had a lot more time to coach Cassel one on one than the head coach, who has to delegate his time to the entire team, ever would.

[aturnis]

Not to mention a guy like Weigmann at center, better blocking from the RB's and better than what was behind Bowe at receiver(still terrible).

[DonkyPuncher]

Even with a good oc I still don't believe Cassel has the talent, arm strength, pocket awarness or balls to run a super bowl worthy offense and he damn sure doesn't have the talent around him this year minus our wide receivers, maybe we should have spent alittle bit of money and brought in a running back and a tight end when we had that chance, now we are stuck with Pope and O'Connel and granted Battle has stepped up he still makes me nervous everytime he touches the ball with his history of putting the ball on the field

[Mr. Laz]

Okay Pioli. How about this? How about giving Haley a quarterback who isn't reading at a fourth grade level and counts with his fingers?

FAX
you've gone off the deep end


how sad

[MahiMike]

I pretty much agree, but I think he needs a new OC (and obviously a QB). Offensive playcalling is atrocious.

True dat. That was the biggest problem on Sunday.

[MahiMike]

Dude, the emergence of Charles, Bowe and Moeaki probably had a hell of a lot to do with why Weis was so successful in comparison to Haley's 2009 season as OC. Not only that, but Weis had a lot more time to coach Cassel one on one than the head coach, who has to delegate his time to the entire team, ever would.

Judging by the lackluster season of the Gators this year, Weis doesn't look like a world beater.

[The Franchise]

you've gone off the deep end


how sad

So you're saying that Cassel is good?

[Chiefnj2]

Why in the world would Haley want to sign an extension to work for a team with an egomaniac GM who won't let him play the players he wants, or draft the players he wants?

[Sofa King]

Why in the world would Haley want to sign an extension to work for a team with an egomaniac GM who won't let him play the players he wants, or draft the players he wants?

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

[aturnis]

Why in the world would Haley want to sign an extension to work for a team with an egomaniac GM who won't let him play the players he wants, or draft the players he wants?

Most GM's ultimately make the picks during the draft. How they get to the point of which players the team wants or needs is a collaborative effort. Who has ever said Haley doesn't get to draft the players he wants? You are weird.

I also don't believe that Pioli is FORCING Haley to play Cassel like some do. Just that Pioli brings in the talent, and the talent he has brought in up until this year to compete with Cassel was none. Now, Stanzi is a different story, but I probably wouldn't have just started him this year either...I say I would have, b/c he is head and shoulders above Cassel as a QB, but in all actuality, I'd rather coach him up first.

[FringeNC]

Something has to be done about the passing game. It's currently ranked #27 and has never been ranked highly the whole time Haley and Cassel have been here. Cassel can't run Haley's downfield passing offense, and Pioli has to do something about it, preferable cutting Cassel loose.

You win in this league moving the ball in the air.

[Discuss Thrower]

Kiss of death anyone? I'm getting queasy thinking who the next retread Pioli will bring in.

[loochy]

Kiss of death anyone? I'm getting queasy thinking who the next retread Pioli will bring in.
Mark Brunell

[aturnis]

Ricky Stanzi.

[The Franchise]

Mike Zimmer?

[Sofa King]

Bob Knight. He has lots of wins. Hopefully he can get us some.

[L.A. Chieffan]

In sorry, I thought I just read an article that had chiefs and Superbowl in the same sentence.

[Mr. Laz]

So you're saying that Cassel is good?
no, i'm not ... but this obsession with him is nuts.

Cassel isn't the reason we lost to the Dolphins.

our offensive coaching sucks azz and our defense bent over and took it up the butt.

The team still isn't polished and they still don't play with the intensity and passion of a good NFL team. You give us a real OC and we would be much,much better.

who's the bigger weakness on offense, Cassel or the coaching?

I say coaching because it effects everything ... Oline blocking, the Blitz pickups, the hot routes,the audibles, every part of the offense.

Offensive needs (by priority)
1. Coaching
2. QB
3. RT
4. center

but hey ... you guys keep bitching about Cassel, whatever floats your boat.

[OnTheWarpath15]

no, i'm not ... but this obsession with him is nuts.

Cassel isn't the reason we lost to the Dolphins.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Cassel is the reason we lost to the Dolphins.

People are arguing that Cassel is a reason we lost to the Dolphins.

This "obsession" with him is because he's holding this team back. You could win championships with shitty QB play a decade ago if you had an all-world defense. That's not the case anymore. The NFL is a QB-driven, passing league.

Sadly, our organizational philosophy seems to be, "trade for/draft late round scrubs and hope like hell we find the next Tom Brady."

Yeah, I can't imagine why fans of this franchise are obsessed with the QB position.

[Fritz88]

One of the problems that we have is offensive playcalling. It's been the same with Haley at the helm. Last year it was good because we had JC. Without JC, we are back to the same horrible, predictable calls.

It's clear that Haley is running the offense whether we want to admit it or not. He's not willing to change it. That is a problem.

He's good with developing players. That. Is. It.

Managing games, adjusting strategies, two minute offense, etc are all horrible.

He has not had a true signature win since he came here. We either beat shitty teams or have people like Phillip Rivers give us games.

I am starting to believe that his success in AZ were due to Whisenhunt and Kurt.

[Mr. Laz]

People are arguing that Cassel is a reason we lost to the Dolphins.
absolutely he is ... but he played better than most of the team.

and yet people aren't talking about all those fuck-ups they are still beating a dead horse about Cassel.

EVERYBODY here knows we need an upgrade at QB ... move the fuck on.

every dam thread turns into something about Cassel, it's beyond stupid. You can't talk about anything else.

[durtyrute]

Something has to be done about the passing game. It's currently ranked #27 and has never been ranked highly the whole time Haley and Cassel have been here. Cassel can't run Haley's downfield passing offense, and Pioli has to do something about it, preferable cutting Cassel loose.

You win in this league moving the ball in the air.

I thought it is Weisenhunts down the field offense not Haley's. Seems like we are seeing Haley's offense right now.

[aturnis]

no, i'm not ... but this obsession with him is nuts.

Cassel isn't the reason we lost to the Dolphins.

our offensive coaching sucks azz and our defense bent over and took it up the butt.

The team still isn't polished and they still don't play with the intensity and passion of a good NFL team. You give us a real OC and we would be much,much better.

who's the bigger weakness on offense, Cassel or the coaching?

I say coaching because it effects everything ... Oline blocking, the Blitz pickups, the hot routes,the audibles, every part of the offense.

Offensive needs (by priority)
1. Coaching
2. QB
3. RT
4. center

but hey ... you guys keep bitching about Cassel, whatever floats your boat.

Aren't reading the defense, identifying your hot route, and calling audibles on the QB? I think so. Especially since you can't do any of the latter two things if you can't read a defense and guess what, Cassel can't. Never has been able to.

The only part of the offense that is subpar b/c of coaching IMO is the OL. I base that opinion on the fact that the OL still doesn't always know their responsibility and can't pick up a blitz for the life of them. This is their THIRD YEAR in this offense. They should figure it out already.

Other than that, the RB's are as good as they can be considering who's back there, the receivers are fine. The TE's are fine, again, considering who we have. O'Connell got beat in pass pro a lot on Sunday, but mostly b/c he was outsized considerably most of the time.

The defense was our biggest problem on Sunday, but mainly due to poor play by backups in the secondary. Other than that, the Phins OL was getting to the second level and took DJ out of the game and Tamba got ZERO pressure. He actually graded out negative on ProFootballFocus, which is the first I've seen for him.

This team DOES need an overhaul on the OL. Two guys need to be found and how you incorporate them, I don't care as long as it works. Other than that, just coach them up. Need a new RB or two, a TE and a WR, not to mention a QB. On defense, the secondary needs depth at safety and we need a couple guys in the linebacker corps, a OLB and an ILB.

[aturnis]

absolutely he is ... but he played better than most of the team.

and yet people aren't talking about all those ****-ups they are still beating a dead horse about Cassel.

EVERYBODY here knows we need an upgrade at QB ... move the **** on.

every dam thread turns into something about Cassel, it's beyond stupid. You can't talk about anything else.

He's not the reason we lost, but he's the biggest reason we didn't win. A great QB can carry a terrible team. Look what Montana did here with terrible receivers. He made them look legit.

[Nightfyre]

One of the problems that we have is offensive playcalling. It's been the same with Haley at the helm. Last year it was good because we had JC. Without JC, we are back to the same horrible, predictable calls.

It's clear that Haley is running the offense whether we want to admit it or not. He's not willing to change it. That is a problem.

He's good with developing players. That. Is. It.

Managing games, adjusting strategies, two minute offense, etc are all horrible.

He has not had a true signature win since he came here. We either beat shitty teams or have people like Phillip Rivers give us games.

I am starting to believe that his success in AZ were due to Whisenhunt and Kurt.
So what you are saying is...
he needs to hire a good OC and let him do his job and then he will be a terrific coach?

[rocknrolla]

I pretty much agree, but I think he needs a new OC (and obviously a QB). Offensive playcalling is atrocious.

I don't get the play calling. It's a joke. And getting the plays to Cassel makes all those offensive coaches look like retards.

[Mr. Laz]

I thought it is Weisenhunts down the field offense not Haley's. Seems like we are seeing Haley's offense right now.
Ding,Ding,Ding

How we really know what Haley's offense is? Whisenhunt had already installed the offense in Arizona when Haley took over the playcalling in week 10(or whatever). Kurt Warner,Larry Fitzgerald and Boldin were already in place as well.

Haley has NEVER installed/assembled an offense in the NFL or at any other level of football.


We have no idea what 'Haley's offense' is.

[aturnis]

I thought it is Weisenhunts down the field offense not Haley's. Seems like we are seeing Haley's offense right now.

We haven't seen a true vision of Haley's offense yet. Early on when he was calling plays in 09' he didn't have much in the ways of talent anywhere on the offense.

In 10' Weis stepped in and was greatly aided by the emergence of Charles, Bowe and Moeaki, as well as the addition of guys like Weigmann, and Lilja. He never really had the proper WR talent to work with though.

This year, we have the WR's, but are missing Charles and Moeaki. The guy who takes the heat off of the passing game and the reliable safety valve. It really hinders this offenses ability to be unpredictable.

Also, each and every year the offense has been hindered by the infamous Mark Castle.

[Mr. Laz]

He's not the reason we lost, but he's the biggest reason we didn't win. A great QB can carry a terrible team. Look what Montana did here with terrible receivers. He made them look legit.

Ya, you're right.

We need a great QB to carry our shitty coaching.


i got an idea ... why don't we try and do both, get a better QB and better coaching. Oh ya, nobody wants to talk about that ... only Cassel.

people all over the league are playing with less than franchise type QB's but that's the only thing people around here can bitch about.

[aturnis]

It's like many have said, put Rodgers, Brees, Brady or any other top flight QB on our team and we are Superbowl contenders.

[loochy]

We have no idea what 'Haley's offense' is.
It seems to involve quite a few draws on 3rd and 10.

[Fritz88]

So what you are saying is...
he needs to hire a good OC and let him do his job and then he will be a terrific coach?

Not really.

It's an indication of many other things. Most importantly, stubbornness.

A good OC is not going to fix time management issues or preseason experiments.

[Mr. Laz]

So what you are saying is...
he needs to hire a good OC and let him do his job and then he will be a terrific coach?

we already tried that ..... twice.

Haley refused.

[Chiefnj2]

Crennel has had a year and a half to figure out a way to pressure opposing QB's and he has failed miserably. Double team Hali and you have a perfect pocket.

[Fritz88]

It's like many have said, put Rodgers, Brees, Brady or any other top flight QB on our team and we are Superbowl contenders.

With this current team?


Playoff, yes. SB. Hell no.

You saw how Jake Long raped Hali. Without Hali, you have no passrush. Without an effective passrush, you can't contend for SBs.

[Mr. Laz]

It's like many have said, put Rodgers, Brees, Brady or any other top flight QB on our team and we are Superbowl contenders.

or give us a real coach and we would be playoff caliber.

[Fritz88]

we already tried that ..... twice.

Haley refused.

There you go.

Chan and Weis are two of the best OCs anyone would love to have. Haley ran them off.

[Sofa King]

Ya, you're right.

We need a great QB to carry our shitty coaching.


i got an idea ... why don't we try and do both, get a better QB and better coaching. Oh ya, nobody wants to talk about that ... only Cassel.

people all over the league are playing with less than franchise type QB's but that's the only thing people around here can bitch about.

You don't think every team with a shitty QB is bitching about the QB?

QB is the most important position in the organization. Look at Mike Shanahan. Great QB resulted in multiple superbowl wins and more appearances. In Washington with no QB, he's a fucking bust.

Fact is Haley is making the players on this team better, with the only exception being a shitty QB who has already hit his peak. I'd rather not burn this bitch down and start over already with a whole new staff. Get him a competent QB and we're a contender.

[Sofa King]

or give us a real coach and we would be playoff caliber.

What exactly were we last year?

[Mr. Laz]

What exactly were we last year?

same thing can be said about Cassel

[aturnis]

Ya, you're right.

We need a great QB to carry our shitty coaching.


i got an idea ... why don't we try and do both, get a better QB and better coaching. Oh ya, nobody wants to talk about that ... only Cassel.

people all over the league are playing with less than franchise type QB's but that's the only thing people around here can bitch about.

None of those teams are going anywhere either. And I did talk about the coaching phuqtard. Like I said, I see no problem with any facet of the offensive coaching other than OL. Can you really argue that? Is it the coaches fault Cassel can't read a defense? No, it's the fact that he didn't play in college and learn the same way everyone else does.

Karlos Dansby was even quoted in saying that they could tell very early on that Cassel was confused and didn't know where they were coming from, so they kept the blitz coming all day.

[Sofa King]

same thing can be said about Cassel

So you're happy with just the playoffs? Happy with the QB who sucked ass in the playoffs? Hard to win when your QB sucks that much ass in a game. 9-18 for 70 yards and 3 picks. Sounds like bad coaching and not the qb to me.

[aturnis]

There you go.

Chan and Weis are two of the best OCs anyone would love to have. Haley ran them off.

Haley booted Chan. Weis walked on his own accord. As soon as he had an offer to coach with his son his mind was made up. You're just being silly to think otherwise.

[Fritz88]

Weis walked on his own accord. As soon as he had an offer to coach with his son his mind was made up.

I don't buy it.

If you don't believe that Haley was a reason for pushing Weis to leave then you are being ....

[BigRock]

Sounds like bad coaching and not the qb to me.

If Haley coached better hot routes, Cassel would have had 300 yards and 4 TDs.

[Sofa King]

If Haley coached better hot routes, Cassel would have had 300 yards and 4 TDs.

That's true.

You remember the plays when Haley threw those picks?

What's that? No you say?

Oh, i guess i must have been ill informed. I thought Haley threw the ball to the defenders.

[aturnis]

I also believe that Haley ditched Chan b/c of Chan's belief in changing your system to your players. If he did that, the system changed every year and it gets harder to have a consistent product on the field.

Look at the teams belief in the defense, from Pioli, to Haley, to Crennel, to NE, PITT, BAL. Install a system, and as long as your players perform within that system, all is well, if they stray its good for nothing.

[aturnis]

I don't buy it.

If you don't believe that Haley was a reason for pushing Weis to leave then you are being ....

Well, I'm pretty sure the excerpt from the book written about Belicheat and his influence on the game by the dude who followed within our organization all last year said this fairly clearly.

[aturnis]

SofaKing, I think BigRock is messin' with ya.

[Okie_Apparition]

.500 is what was expected before injuries
meh

[Chiefnj2]

So you're happy with just the playoffs? Happy with the QB who sucked ass in the playoffs? Hard to win when your QB sucks that much ass in a game. 9-18 for 70 yards and 3 picks. Sounds like bad coaching and not the qb to me.

Why do persons such as yourself continue this straw man argument? Laz said earlier that it he doesn't like Cassel and realizes Cassel is a problem. When he questions Haley, the rebuttal automatically becomes "you're happy with Cassel ...."

[Mr. Laz]

Weis walked on his own accord. As soon as he had an offer to coach with his son his mind was made up. You're just being silly to think otherwise.
I don't believe it.

After only 8 months, Weis went from coaching in the NFL for 5.2 million a year to being an O.C. in college for 750k a year along with recruiting and all that shit.

How bad would a job have to be to get you to take a 5 million dollar per year pay cut?

no fucking way

[Fritz88]

Well, I'm pretty sure the excerpt from the book written about Belicheat and his influence on the game by the dude who followed within our organization all last year said this fairly clearly.

I am also fairly sure that you can't use/find anything on that book that would put BB and his boys in a bad light.

[Nightfyre]

Ya, you're right.

We need a great QB to carry our shitty coaching.


i got an idea ... why don't we try and do both, get a better QB and better coaching. Oh ya, nobody wants to talk about that ... only Cassel.

people all over the league are playing with less than franchise type QB's but that's the only thing people around here can bitch about.

I'm just saying:

Packers: With Aaron Rodgers, playoff team. Without, probably not.
Patriots - With Tom Brady, playoff team. Without, not.
Steelers - With Roethlisberger, playoff team. Without, not.
Colts - With Peyton Manning, playoff team. Without, not.
Atlanta - With Matt Ryan, playoff team. Without, not.
Saints - With Drew Brees, playoff team. Without, not.
Chargers - With Philip Rivers, playoff team. Without, not.
Lions - With Matt Stafford, playoff team. Without, not.

The Bengals maybe could be added to this list.

How much impact would a coaching change have on those teams? Pretty fuckng nominal.

The exceptions come with teams who have consistently great team defenses:
Bears
Eagles (not this year, however.)
Ravens

[aturnis]

First of all, your numbers are way off. Belicheat made the most of any H.C. last year at 7.5mil, and the average is much lower. The average pay for the 32 head coaches in the NFL is $3.25 million annually, according to Bob LaMonte, president and founder of Professional Sports Representation. In 2010, LaMonte represented eight coaches in the league, according to Sports Business Daily. Coaches making the move to an NFL job for the first time average lower salaries, typically around $2 million per year.

Read more: The Average Salary of an NFL Head Coach | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_7572056_average-salary-nfl-head-coach.html#ixzz1d8kJu3J0


Your right though, coaching with his son wouldn't be important to him at all. Who knows. His son might have only gotten the job if Charlie came along. Either way, I'd think having an opportunity to coach side by side with his son, and teach him a thing or two along the way would be a pretty rewarding thing to do before he retires a multi-millionaire. Hell, I hope is 20 yrs. I have an opportunity to work alongside my son if he chooses to go into my line of work. You must be underestimating what it means to be someones Dad. You have kids?

[FAX]

you've gone off the deep end


how sad

The deep end is where the big boys swim, Mr. Laz. We don't paddle around in the kiddie pool. We're like the sharks. Or the manta ray deals. Or the giant manatees of truth and constancy and honor and fresh blueberry muffins straight out of the oven.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

I am also fairly sure that you can't use/find anything on that book that would put BB and his boys in a bad light.

We'll know in the next day or so. I pre-ordered it and had it auto-delivered to my iPad, I'm going to try to get through it in the next few days.

[aturnis]

In short Laz. I agree with you that Cassel is a problem. Where we disagree is that I believe even as "good" as he was last year, he is the biggest problem. Whereas, even bad coaching can be overcome by good play, especially by the QB. Our Oline sucks and so does their coaching. True Haley picked that coach, but not only did Pioli sign off on the decision, but he picked the coach who picked that coach. If you are going to push your shit uphill, why stop at Haley?

Haley takes the blame and gets the finger pointed at him, b/c he is the point man for the players. He has meetings with the coordinators as far as gameplans are concerned, but he doesn't come up with and implement them on his own. Sundays defensive gameplan was as much Romeo's as it was Haley's, and that is where this team lost the game on Sunday. Every Dolphin lineman save Vernon Carey graded out positively on Sunday. They stoned Tamba and we got zero pressure. To compensate, we called a whopping total of 5 blitzes on Sunday. That has Romeo written all over it does it not? We let Matt Moore, a terrible passer under pressure, sit back in a perfectly clean pocket ALL DAY LONG, and we paid for it. Not only that, but their lineman were pulling and getting to the second level at will, effectively taking DJ out of the game. We let the Dolphins tired ass offense out scheme us and take our best two defenders in the front seven completely out of the game. We were CRAZY weak at safety for this game and it showed. Not only that, but Marshall had his way with Flowers too.

The defense let the Dolphins drive all day. Even when they managed to make them punt, the ball was consistently inside of the 20yd. line for the offense. The offensive line BLEW like I've never seen before. That is where the OL coaching comes in. You'd think the Oline would know how to pick up a blitz after 3 years in the current system, of course, they don't have Peyton Manning calling out blitzers for them either, b/c Cassel didn't know where the blitz was coming from. Then of course the offense would stall, before it got started, we'd punt, and the Dolphins would begin their drive with GREAT field position. Average started field positions were more than likely WAY different. Bottom line, you don't let the Phins put up 31 points. Period.

[aturnis]

I don't believe it.

After only 8 months, Weis went from coaching in the NFL for 5.2 million a year to being an O.C. in college for 750k a year along with recruiting and all that shit.

How bad would a job have to be to get you to take a 5 million dollar per year pay cut?

no ****ing way

The next-highest average on the NFL coaching staff belongs to offensive and defensive coordinators, who can bring home seven-digit salaries. Marvin Lewis received the first million-dollar contract for a defensive coordinator when he joined the Redskins in 2003. That trend has continued, and most teams have a coordinator earning at least $1 million per year as of 2010.

Some college football HC's make more than some NFL HC's. I'd imagine some coordinators do too. Especially guys with big names like Weiss.

[aturnis]

We'll know in the next day or so. I pre-ordered it and had it auto-delivered to my iPad, I'm going to try to get through it in the next few days.

Can't wait. Thanks in advance for any info you deliver...

[whoman69]

This team has talent, probably more than we've had since Vermeil was here. However still big holes in talent that other teams are taking advantage of. I think Haley's talent is in getting players to play up to their capabilities, except perhaps Cassel. Those holes are what is holding us back. The fact that the opposition is only occassionally able to take advantage of us is probably due to the team being coached up. I still don't like the schemes, but again that may be necessitated by the talent. Haley shouldn't be on the hotseat as much as Pioli and ownership.

[DonkyPuncher]

I'm just saying:

Packers: With Aaron Rodgers, playoff team. Without, probably not.
Patriots - With Tom Brady, playoff team. Without, not.
Steelers - With Roethlisberger, playoff team. Without, not.
Colts - With Peyton Manning, playoff team. Without, not.
Atlanta - With Matt Ryan, playoff team. Without, not.
Saints - With Drew Brees, playoff team. Without, not.
Chargers - With Philip Rivers, playoff team. Without, not.
Lions - With Matt Stafford, playoff team. Without, not.

The Bengals maybe could be added to this list.

How much impact would a coaching change have on those teams? Pretty ****ng nominal.

The exceptions come with teams who have consistently great team defenses:
Bears
Eagles (not this year, however.)
Ravens

I agree I think coaching can only be blamed so far, these guys have been playing football their entire lives, how much more could they possibly need coached? They play in the nfl if they don't get it by now then they should go ahead and pursue their career as a gym teacher beings that most of them probably have pys ed degrees.

[aturnis]

This team has talent, probably more than we've had since Vermeil was here. However still big holes in talent that other teams are taking advantage of. I think Haley's talent is in getting players to play beyond their capabilities, except perhaps Cassel. Those holes are what is holding us back. The fact that the opposition is only occassionally able to take advantage of us is probably due to the team being coached up. I still don't like the schemes, but again that may be necessitated by the talent. Haley shouldn't be on the hotseat as much as Pioli and ownership.

Fixed it for ya.

[FAX]

Mr. Laz is right. It's a tired, old argument.

Haley has his faults and his detractors focus on those.

Cassel is ... well ... he might be from somewhere near the Pleiades and his alien parents dropped him off here from a great height and he landed on his head ... he has his faults, too, and his detractors will focus on those.

The point of my original post is this; if Pioli has so, so, so much confidence in Haley and such a great working relationship and they are so committed to winning a Superbowl and all ... why in the name of Ms. RednFeisty's tight ass are we so far under the cap, invisible in free agency, and starting one of the worst quarterbacks in the history of the NFL?

That doesn't sound like teamwork to me. Ergo and thus, I claim that Pioli is full of crap.

FAX

[ChiefaRoo]

Okay Pioli. How about this? How about giving Haley a quarterback who isn't reading at a fourth grade level and counts with his fingers?

FAX

I have to agree FAX. If KC had a stud QB the entire team would be better on both sides of the ball. If KC had a stud Rush the passer DE and QB this team would contend for the bowl once everyone gets healthy. I'd also like to see a shut down Corner with Flowers matched against the number two receiver and Carr the Nickel with Arenas backing up.

This team is only two or three KEY players away from being damn good.

[loochy]

I have to agree FAX. If KC had a stud QB the entire team would be better on both sides of the ball. If KC had a stud Rush the passer DE and QB this team would contend for the bowl once everyone gets healthy. I'd also like to see a shut down Corner with Flowers matched against the number two receiver and Carr the Nickel with Arenas backing up.

This team is only two or three KEY players away from being damn good.

I would like a team of Payton Manning, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Tony Gonzalez.

[Okie_Apparition]

Some postions have to be JAG

[mdchiefsfan]

One of the problems that we have is offensive playcalling. It's been the same with Haley at the helm. Last year it was good because we had JC. Without JC, we are back to the same horrible, predictable calls.

It's clear that Haley is running the offense whether we want to admit it or not. He's not willing to change it. That is a problem.

He's good with developing players. That. Is. It.

Managing games, adjusting strategies, two minute offense, etc are all horrible.

He has not had a true signature win since he came here. We either beat shitty teams or have people like Phillip Rivers give us games.

I am starting to believe that his success in AZ were due to Whisenhunt and Kurt.

2009 Pittsburgh @ KC

[Sofa King]

I would like a team of Payton Manning, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Tony Gonzalez.

Peyton

[Reerun_KC]

Peyton

yeah him too...

[loochy]

Peyton

Meh, you know what I meant....you know, the pink skinned guy with the giant forehead and the down's syndrome brother.

[Mr. Laz]

Some college football HC's make more than some NFL HC's. I'd imagine some coordinators do too. Especially guys with big names like Weiss.

Weis (reportedly) was making 5.2 million as a OC for the chiefs and made 750k his first year at florida.

========================
At Florida, the former Kansas City Chiefs coordinator will get $765,000 this year, then $865,000 annually over the next two years, according to the Post. He also received a $100,000 signing bonus and gets a $10,000 supplement for wearing Nike apparel.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-02-26/florida-pays-oc-charlie-weis-huge-salary
============================

[rtmike]

Why in the world would Haley want to sign an extension to work for a team with an egomaniac GM who won't let him play the players he wants, or draft the players he wants?

S. Breaston
J. Baldwin
Jerrry Urban
that little dude Arizona cut that we brought in last year for a few games
Lenny Pope
Tony Becht was in Az. in '09

I would say Haley has some say so, not complete, but obviously Pioli is listening to him.

[lcarus]

After 0-3 stretch: "Pioli isn't talking to Haley. He should be fired within the next 2 weeks."

After 4-1 stretch: "Pioli praises Haley. Says young team and young coach are growing into their roles."

[Chieftain58]

You expect him to put some pressure on the coach if he has any doubts about the direction he's going.

Uhm.. pressure on the Coach? Get him a QB that can take it to the next level, Get a O-Line that doesn't suck... Pioli and Injuries are to blame as much as Haley.

[milkman]

Ya, you're right.

We need a great QB to carry our shitty coaching.


i got an idea ... why don't we try and do both, get a better QB and better coaching. Oh ya, nobody wants to talk about that ... only Cassel.

people all over the league are playing with less than franchise type QB's but that's the only thing people around here can bitch about.

I have 4 words for you.

You're a fucking idiot.

Tell us all about these teams that are winning SBs with less than non franchise type QBs.

[milkman]

or give us a real coach and we would be playoff caliber.

You're still a fucking idiot.

[milkman]

same thing can be said about Cassel

Still a fucking idiot.

Every fucking time Cassel sees pressure, he shits his pants.

Every good team Cassel faces he shits his pants.

He looked better last year because we played shitty teams.

[milkman]

I don't buy it.

If you don't believe that Haley was a reason for pushing Weis to leave then you are being ....

Once again for all you fucking idiots who clearly don't have a job.

If you have a boss who asks you to do somehting his way, you do it or get the fuck out.

Haley is the head coach.
He's the boss.

If he expects his underling, Charlie Weis to so something his way, Charlie Weis does that thing Haley's way.

If he couldn't do that, he needs to get the fuck out.

[FAX]

Once again for all you ****ing idiots who clearly don't have a job.

If you have a boss who asks you to do somehting his way, you do it or get the **** out.

Haley is the head coach.
He's the boss.

If he expects his underling, Charlie Weis to so something his way, Charlie Weis does that thing Haley's way.

If he couldn't do that, he needs to get the **** out.

It really is that way in the real world.

Then again, I once told an employee to get the hell out and he stayed. It was a tad confusing.

FAX

[milkman]

It really is that way in the real world.

Then again, I once told an employee to get the hell out and he stayed. It was a tad confusing.

FAX

You can discuss it, try to convince the boss that your way is the better way, but at the end of the day, he's the boss.

[FAX]

You can discuss it, try to convince the boss that your way is the better way, but at the end of the day, he's the boss.

Yep.

You know, it makes sense (however) that Weis takes the job on account of Pioli with the idea that he would have more control over the offense than Haley was ultimately willing to provide. The Pioli-Weis connection has a lot more history than the Haley-Weis connection does, after all.

So, Weis takes the job, then gets pissy because he can't have donuts delivered every half-hour. He then whines to Pioli who says (rightfully), "Haley's the boss. If he says no donuts, that's the way it is." Weis then gets even pissy-er and starts acting out in meetings. Friction escalates and Haley tells Weis to blow it out his ass. Weis cries to Mommy and they decide to bail.

Either Weis shouldn't have taken the job in the first place or acknowledged Haley as his HC and "boss" and toed the line. Conclusion: Weis is a overly gorged, egotistical dipstick.

That's my theory.

FAX

[BigChiefFan]

Yep.

You know, it makes sense (however) that Weis takes the job on account of Pioli with the idea that he would have more control over the offense than Haley was ultimately willing to provide. The Pioli-Weis connection has a lot more history than the Haley-Weis connection does, after all.

So, Weis takes the job, then gets pissy because he can't have donuts delivered every half-hour. He then whines to Pioli who says (rightfully), "Haley's the boss. If he says no donuts, that's the way it is." Weis then gets even pissy-er and starts acting out in meetings. Friction escalates and Haley tells Weis to blow it out his ass. Weis cries to Mommy and they decide to bail.

Either Weis shouldn't have taken the job in the first place or acknowledged Haley as his HC and "boss" and toed the line. Conclusion: Weis is a overly gorged, egotistical dipstick.

That's my theory.

FAX...or it could like he said...he wanted to go coach with his son because it had been a life long dream.

[FAX]

...or it could like he said...he wanted to go coach with his son because it had been a life long dream.

Or that.

FAX

[FAX]

Or this ...

Early in his NFL career, Haley is fetching coffee for Weis. Then, as the years pass, Weis fails miserably as a head coach and is fired from ND so he takes a job working for Haley. At first, it sounds like an okay idea, but eventually, Weis' ego freaks out on him and he simply can't handle being reminded of his utter failure so he convinces Cassel that throwing super high is the key to success in the league and splits town.

How about that?

FAX

[chiefzilla1501]

I have to agree FAX. If KC had a stud QB the entire team would be better on both sides of the ball. If KC had a stud Rush the passer DE and QB this team would contend for the bowl once everyone gets healthy. I'd also like to see a shut down Corner with Flowers matched against the number two receiver and Carr the Nickel with Arenas backing up.

This team is only two or three KEY players away from being damn good.

The Chiefs have more than enough pieces. You're never going to get everything perfect.

Their offensive line is better than New Orleans. Their RBs are better than New Orleans (were a HELL of a lot better last year). Their defense is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans. Their receivers are better than New Orleans. New Orleans has better tight ends, but that only started happening this year. What I just said goes also for New England. I would argue that our talent isn't even that far off from Green Bay.

It's amazing what a great QB can do for this team.

[chiefzilla1501]

The playcalling fiasco... no excuse for that.

I always wondered if Haley would manage games differently with a different QB. Does he milk time at the end of first halves because of poor clock management, or does he just have that little faith in his QB to not make a pick-6? Did he take a ton of chances on 4th down in the past because he's arrogantly aggressive, or did he do that because he knew he couldn't win without a few lucky bounces? Is the offensive playcalling notoriously conservative? Or is it just because he's doing everything he can to take the ball out of Cassel's hands?

The Cardinals had a sound offensive gameplan. You wonder what Haley's game plan / game management looks like under a very good QB. I just don't think you can fire him until you know this.

[Frosty]

Or this ...

Early in his NFL career, Haley is fetching coffee for Weis. Then, as the years pass, Weis fails miserably as a head coach and is fired from ND so he takes a job working for Haley. At first, it sounds like an okay idea, but eventually, Weis' ego freaks out on him and he simply can't handle being reminded of his utter failure so he convinces Cassel that throwing super high is the key to success in the league and splits town.

How about that?

FAX

This fits all of the evidence. I'm going with it.

[FAX]

Or maybe ...

Weis shows up early for work after a late night trying to get out of his pants. He's slightly hungover, extremely groggy and has missed second breakfast. Hunger strikes and strikes hard. In his semi-conscious state, Weis mistakenly eats Haley's commemorative Super Bowl football. When Haley finds out what has happened, he kicks Weis in the gut causing his gall bladder to explode. Weis is rushed to surgery. Meanwhile, Haley trades two Arrowhead season tickets to the surgeon in exchange for leaving a scar on Weis' belly that reads, "I'm a stupid fat bastard." in cursive script. After leaving the hospital it takes Weis several weeks before he can lift his belly sufficiently high to read the surgeon's handwriting at which point Weis gets all pissy and decides to leave.

How about that?

FAX

[Chiefshrink]

This is another one of those "well what the hell do you expect him to say" type of things.

BINGO:thumb:

[milkman]

This is another one of those "well what the hell do you expect him to say" type of things.

BINGO:thumb:

Not really.

He doesn't simply endorse Haley, he elaborates on it to an extent.

That excludes it as a "Well, what the hell do you epect him to say" type of things.

[Mr. Laz]

Once again for all you ****ing idiots who clearly don't have a job. If you have a boss who asks you to do somehting his way, you do it or get the **** out. Haley is the head coach. He's the boss.

If he expects his underling, Charlie Weis to so something his way, Charlie Weis does that thing Haley's way. If he couldn't do that, he needs to get the **** out.
and once again Milktard is such a asshat that he's not even discussion the same issue as everyone else.

Yes, the boss gets to decide what happens. Nobody is arguing that, you moron. I'll try and talk slow so your senile old ass can keep up.

The ... issue ... isn't ... about ... who ... had ... authority ... about ... the ... offense. It's ... about ... making ... the ... right ... decisions.

can you comprehend, you idiot,inbred POS?

Haley decided to fire gailey ... his decision. But was it the right one?

Haley and Weis couldn't co-exist so naturally Weis is the one that leaves. But is it the right decision.

Cassel isn't a great QB but he was clearly better under weis.

is Haley part of the problem or part of the solution?

watching the offense now suggest that Haley made the wrong decisions because the offense now looks like it's coached by the 3 stooges.


So the ultimate issue is about ... when we get a new/better quarterback, do we want an incompetent offensive coaching staff developing him?

oh, and can somebody hold milkman's hand and try to keep that fucking fool on topic since he can't seem to stay focused about it.

[aturnis]

and once again Milktard is such a asshat that he's not even discussion the same issue as everyone else.

Yes, the boss gets to decide what happens. Nobody is arguing that, you moron. I'll try and talk slow so your senile old ass can keep up.

The ... issue ... isn't ... about ... who ... had ... authority ... about ... the ... offense. It's ... about ... making ... the ... right ... decisions.

can you comprehend, you idiot,inbred POS?

Haley decided to fire gailey ... his decision. But was it the right one?

Haley and Weis couldn't co-exist so naturally Weis is the one that leaves. But is it the right decision.

Cassel isn't a great QB but he was clearly better under weis.

is Haley part of the problem or part of the solution?

watching the offense now suggest that Haley made the wrong decisions because the offense now looks like it's coached by the 3 stooges.


So the ultimate issue is about ... when we get a new/better quarterback, do we want an incompetent offensive coaching staff developing him?

oh, and can somebody hold milkman's hand and try to keep that ****ing fool on topic since he can't seem to stay focused about it.

You are a fucking retarded fuck. Man you need your ass beat. Milk obviously was responding directly to the retarded comments of Fitz and anyone else who is stupid enough to agree with the drivel he spews. The content on Fitz's post was about Haley running off quality OC's. Which isn't at all true, no matter how you look at it.

[milkman]

and once again Milktard is such a asshat that he's not even discussion the same issue as everyone else.

Yes, the boss gets to decide what happens. Nobody is arguing that, you moron. I'll try and talk slow so your senile old ass can keep up.

The ... issue ... isn't ... about ... who ... had ... authority ... about ... the ... offense. It's ... about ... making ... the ... right ... decisions.

can you comprehend, you idiot,inbred POS?

Haley decided to fire gailey ... his decision. But was it the right one?

Haley and Weis couldn't co-exist so naturally Weis is the one that leaves. But is it the right decision.

Cassel isn't a great QB but he was clearly better under weis.

is Haley part of the problem or part of the solution?

watching the offense now suggest that Haley made the wrong decisions because the offense now looks like it's coached by the 3 stooges.


So the ultimate issue is about ... when we get a new/better quarterback, do we want an incompetent offensive coaching staff developing him?

oh, and can somebody hold milkman's hand and try to keep that ****ing fool on topic since he can't seem to stay focused about it.

Whether or not it was the right decision, you dumbass, it still comes down to one simple fact.

Todd Haley is the HC.

Chan Gailey and Charlie Weis both worked for Todd Haley.

I believe that it was a mistake to fire Gailey, and I think that dumbasses like you give Weis credit for something that is absolutely false specifically that he did anything that made Cassel look better.

The weak teams on the schedule did that.

I don't give a rat's ass that his useless ass is gone.

Bottom line, however, is that they both worked for Haley and it was their responsibillity to adapt to Haley.

Now, if you want to argue that Pioli should have fired Haley before he let Haley chase off either, that's an entirely different discussion.

I'm absolutely on topic.

You're just too fucking stupid to recognize that.

[ChiefPressure]

up

[Titty Meat]

A bunch of you apparently see writing on the wall. I don't, I see a guy who will undoubtedly get an extension. Probably be our coach for some time. Thank God.

Heh

[Extra Point]

I believe that it was a mistake to fire Gailey, and I think that dumbasses like you give Weis credit for something that is absolutely false specifically that he did anything that made Cassel look better.

The weak teams on the schedule did that.

I don't give a rat's ass that his useless ass is gone.

Bottom line, however, is that they both worked for Haley and it was their responsibillity to adapt to Haley.

Now, if you want to argue that Pioli should have fired Haley before he let Haley chase off either, that's an entirely different discussion.



In view of that, does Weis have enough juice in the scooter, to make the haul from Lawrence to Arrowhead?

[htismaqe]

I believe that it was a mistake to fire Gailey, and I think that dumbasses like you give Weis credit for something that is absolutely false specifically that he did anything that made Cassel look better.

It was a mistake to expect Haley to work with Gailey in the first place. When you gut the staff, you GUT the staff. Don't keep the dingle berries around, wipe it clean...