Who is responsible for our terrible passing offense?

[FringeNC]

Who is responsible for our terrible passing offense?

Some stats:

27 in passing yardage
26 in yards per attempt (the more important stat)

Teams behind us in yards per attempt:

Tampa
Denver
St. Louis
Indianapolis
Jacksonville

Notice that these are the worst teams in the NFL down there with us. Can’t move the ball effectively in the air = terrible team.

Who is to blame? Cassel? Offensive line? Haley Muir? Pioli?

It seems to me we have much better WRs than our fellow cellar dwellers. Now that Cassel is out, we will be able to more effectively assign blame as to who is primarily responsible for this abomination. If Palko significantly outplays Cassel, we have our answer. If he plays just as poorly as Cassel, then Haley deserves the blame, and should be fired. His claim to fame was coordinating a high-powered passing offense. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding being hamstrung by Cassel, but if have the same results with another guy back there, Haley’s own designated #2, then bye Haley.

This is Haley’s opportunity to prove he deserves a job next year. He needs to show us that Cassel was the problem. If Palko bombs, Haley’s gone for sure and who knows what Pioli will do about the HC/QB positions.

Personally, I think Palko will show us that Cassel was the problem. In the short time he was in there on Sunday, our passing offense looked like a normal NFL passing offense rather than slow developing train wreck it does when Cassel is back there. Cassel cannot think on his feet, and that is the problem.

[Start Croyle]

Recievers with butterfingers!

[Bump]

terrible QB = terrible passing offense

move along now

[The Franchise]

Cassel handcuffs the entire offense.

[Pitt Gorilla]

A lot is on Cassel, but the drops are unbelievable. The drops on third down kill drives.

[FAX]

That's the really, really, really frustrating thing this year.

We have a freaking awesome corp of receivers who can snag a football out of a tsunami and never get wet. It's got to be a combination of line, quarterback, and scheme because there's really no damn excuse for us not to be flinging that damn thing all over the yard.

FAX

[Deberg_1990]

All eleven players are responsible and Haley is ultimately responsible.

[jd1020]

A lot is on Cassel, but the drops are unbelievable. The drops on third down kill drives.

I would find the drops unbelievable if the ball was in between the numbers. More than not our receivers have to make some kind of acrobatic mind fuck just to get a finger on it.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I would find the drops unbelievable if the ball was in between the numbers. More than not our receivers have to make some kind of acrobatic mind **** just to get a finger on it.Bowe's drop on third down hit him right in the hands. The guy is literally bipolar as a WR.

[bobbything]

It's a combination of our O-line and a QB who isn't serviceable without plenty of time to throw. Thus, I blame Pioli and Haley. I blame Muir for devising a scheme that has McCluster as a pass blocker in any situation, and failing to recognize when Albert and/or Richardson is struggling.

[Katie]

So if Stanzi posted a 30 on the wonderlic, what was Palko's score? Is the guy smart enough to read defenses?

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Matt Cassel sucks.

[BigRichard]

Cassel

[FAX]

I've thought a great deal about this "drop" stuff. Bowe is the main culprit.

When the ball could possibly be thrown 8 feet above your head, behind you, at your feet, at the defender, or at your groin, it eventually becomes a little difficult to stay confident and focused ... not to mention hard to develop good timing on the catch. Then, there's the problem with the 110 mph fastball thrown to the checkdown guy or the poor dude in the flat.

Add it all up, and it becomes a lingering problem.

FAX

[Chiefnj2]

A lot is on Cassel, but the drops are unbelievable. The drops on third down kill drives.

15 drops between Bowe (at #4 in the league in drops), Baldwin (4 drops) and Dex (4 drops).

[BigRichard]

Matt Cassel sucks.

^ and this

[jd1020]

Bowe's drop on third down hit him right in the hands. The guy is literally bipolar as a WR.

I said more than not. That's an unbelievable drop. Kinda gets evened out when Baldwin has to catch a ball pinned against a defenders back. And then the scales tip when Baldwin drops a ball thrown at his back elbow on a slant.

[FAX]

So if Stanzi posted a 30 on the wonderlic, what was Palko's score? Is the guy smart enough to read defenses?

The book on Palko is that he is like the Nicola Tesla of football.

FAX

[kcfanXIII]

blame should be placed in this order:

1. weak armed, inaccurate qb. Cassel has some intangibles, like his toughness, and i have no doubt in his abilities as a leader. however, there comes a time when a qb actually has to play the position, and cassel's abilities limit his success.

2. offensive line. the weakness at right tackle and center have been really glaring the past couple of weeks. wiggy is just too old to continue producing like his old self, its time for the streak to end. barry is, well, he has never been very good, and i can't figure out for the life of me how he has held on so long. the guy should go be a bull fighter or something with as many rushers get past him.

3. coaching. this is what happens when you put someone in charge of the offense, that still runs it like they did when they still wore leather helmets. the offensive playcalling has been predictable and boring.

4. wide recievers, although, i'm not sure i can blame someone for dropping a ball, when they are utterly surprised when their weak armed, inaccurate qb actually gets the ball to them.

[FringeNC]

15 drops between Bowe (at #4 in the league in drops), Baldwin (4 drops) and Dex (4 drops).

Dropped passes kill drives, but over the course of the season, I just don't think they can explain much as far as why we are close to worst in the NFL. All teams have dropped passes. We may have a few more, but it's small potatoes in the overall stats.

[BigMeatballDave]

LOL is this a serious question?

[xztop12]

Look at all the drive killing (and in some cases game changing) drops by Bowe. Yet for some reason i always catch flack for saying that this offense started going downhill with the arrival of Bowe.

i dont think this board is fond of new ideas

To answer the thread, the coaching is abysmal. Last game we had Baldwin pass protecting, probably something he's never done in his life at any level.

I've also seen plays where we max protected poorly only to leave Tight ends blocking the other teams top rusher, and a tackle taken out of the play sitting on his hands

[FAX]

Look at all the drive killing (and in some cases game changing) drops by Bowe. Yet for some reason i always catch flack for saying that this offense started going downhill with the arrival of Bowe.

i dont think this board is fond of new ideas

Speaking for the entire board (I think I've earned that right) ... no ... we like new ideas. Love 'em, in fact.

We draw the line at impossibly ignorant and moronic statements, though.

FAX

[Okie_Apparition]

A QB who can get a pass just close enough to the WR to make that WR look bad

[penguinz]

Look at all the drive killing (and in some cases game changing) drops by Bowe. Yet for some reason i always catch flack for saying that this offense started going downhill with the arrival of Bowe.

i dont think this board is fond of new ideas

To answer the thread, the coaching is abysmal. Last game we had Baldwin pass protecting, probably something he's never done in his life at any level.

I've also seen plays where we max protected poorly only to leave Tight ends blocking the other teams top rusher, and a tackle taken out of the play sitting on his handsBowe was here long before this offense was.

[FloridaMan88]

Cassel, Cassel, Cassel, Cassel, Cassel.

[Iconic]

Todd Haley... And he will prove what a farce he is the next few weeks with Failko and Dick.

[Okie_Apparition]

Consistency starts with ball in the right place. Reps & lots of them make the O go. Go back to sentence 1

[Akron's#1ChiefsFan]

It's a collection of things. Muir isn't a real OC, Cassel is a barely serviceable QB, the O-line is just atrocious, and the receivers flat out drop balls. I don't think you can excuse the WRs for dropping balls, no matter how surprised they are to get the ball. Their job is to catch the damn ball. They should start doing that.

[FringeNC]

Todd Haley... And he will prove what a farce he is the next few weeks with Failko and Dick.

That was one of my points to the thread - that the change from Cassel would provide us some information. I think you're wrong, though. I think Palko will outplay Cassel. But if he doesn't, I agree -- Haley needs to go.

[Pitt Gorilla]

4. wide recievers, although, i'm not sure i can blame someone for dropping a ball, when they are utterly surprised when their weak armed, inaccurate qb actually gets the ball to them.Yes you can and you should.

[lcarus]

As lackluster as Cassel is, and with the injuries we've suffered, I still can't help feeling like the offense shouldn't be quite THIS dysfunctional. Todd Haley is supposed to be an offense guy. Well, the playcalling has been pretty awful, and the mistakes are unforgivable. Cassel limits us. I get that. I guess I feel like it should be bad, but not THIS atrocious.

[FAX]

Yeah ... if Palko doesn't light it up on the road against NE, Haley needs to go.

That makes sense.

To a deformed, brainsick walrus.

FAX

[LOCOChief]

The right tackle is a turnstile.
The receivers have rocks for hands.
The center is a lightweight swing gate.

It feels like I'm leaving something out?

[FAX]

As lackluster as Cassel is, and with the injuries we've suffered, I still can't help feeling like the offense shouldn't be quite THIS dysfunctional. Todd Haley is supposed to be an offense guy. Well, the playcalling has been pretty awful, and the mistakes are unforgivable. Cassel limits us. I get that. I guess I feel like it should be bad, but not THIS atrocious.

There is something amiss.

I'd like to believe it's the loss of Charles and our spectacular run threat.

Then again, deep down inside, I feel like there is more to it.

FAX

[FringeNC]

Yeah ... if Palko doesn't light it up on the road against NE, Haley needs to go.

That makes sense.

To a deformed, brainsick walrus.

FAX

Cassel threw for 3.3 yards per attempt against a bad Denver defense. Lighting it up vs. appearing to be a real NFL passing offense are two entirely different things.

[jd1020]

As lackluster as Cassel is, and with the injuries we've suffered, I still can't help feeling like the offense shouldn't be quite THIS dysfunctional. Todd Haley is supposed to be an offense guy. Well, the playcalling has been pretty awful, and the mistakes are unforgivable. Cassel limits us. I get that. I guess I feel like it should be bad, but not THIS atrocious.

Anyone is an offensive guy with a HOF QB and 1 HOF receiver + 1 pro bowl receiver behind an offensive HC.

[FAX]

Cassel threw for 3.3 yards per attempt against a bad Denver defense. Lighting it up vs. appearing to be a real NFL passing offense are two entirely different things.

Can't disagree with that, Mr. FringeNC.

FAX

[lcarus]

Anyone is an offensive guy with a HOF QB and 1 HOF receiver + 1 pro bowl receiver behind an offensive HC.

Yeah I guess he's just proving that his offensive success can be attributed to having Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.

[Chiefnj2]

Problems:

1. OC. Weis showed last year that you CAN design an offense where Cassel isn't a liability. Running Dex up the gut, Battle to the outside, etc.
2. Loss of Charles.
3. Cassel
4. OL
5. Penalties. First drive KC faced a 1st and 25. Really? Nice way to start the game on the right foot.
6. Drops.

[FAX]

Yeah I guess he's just proving that his offensive success can be attributed to having Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.

So ... you're going to fault a guy because he needs an actual NFL-level quarterback to win games?

Jesus, guys.

FAX

[ModSocks]

Anyone is an offensive guy with a HOF QB and 1 HOF receiver + 1 pro bowl receiver behind an offensive HC.

Yeah I guess he's just proving that his offensive success can be attributed to having Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.

Same could be said for any of these Coaches, really.

Just further proves how important that QB position is. BB wasn't shit w/o Brady.

Dungy owes Manning for making him appear to be a good HC.

Elway & the Rat

Cowher/Rutheless Raper

The list goes on and on.

Fix the QB and everything else works out just fine.

[ModSocks]

Problems:

1. OC. Weis showed last year that you CAN design an offense where Cassel isn't a liability. Running Dex up the gut, Battle to the outside, etc.


Weiss showed that sheltering your incapable QB while heavily leaning on one of the most explosive RB's in the last decade still won't work against the best teams.

You can't hide your QB forever.

[FAX]

Yep. It's as though Charles never existed.

We lost a ton of options when we lost Charles.

To me, that's on Pioli again. We lack depth across the board. Still got that 30 million, though.

FAX

[FringeNC]

For comparisons, Matt Moore is averaging 6.9 yards per attempt with 4 TDs and 5 INTs with Miami. Our passing offense is bad. Real bad.

[FAX]

For comparisons, Matt Moore is averaging 6.9 yards per attempt with 4 TDs and 5 INTs with Miami. Our passing offense is bad. Real bad.

The run game isn't much better.

1 rushing TD this year, I think?

FAX

[BoneKrusher]

Matt Cassel is responsible.
gotta have a QB.
the days of hiding your QB with a defense and rushing attack are gone forever.

[FAX]

Palko will save us.

There's a really funny interview with him on that chiefs.com place. It's worth a look.

I'm going to root for Palko in spite of what everybody else says. I like his style. Plus, he uses CarbSlam and that's an excellent product.

FAX

[ModSocks]

Yep. It's as though Charles never existed.

We lost a ton of options when we lost Charles.

To me, that's on Pioli again. We lack depth across the board. Still got that 30 million, though.

FAX

I was screaming all offseason that the Chiefs needed to draft another Back.

Taiwan Jones was the guy I wanted. He looks pretty damn good in Oakland right now. Strong and Fast. Better then anything we have in the stable right now.

They could've done SOMETHING.

Being a running team and leaning on two, undersized backs and one back that was done two years ago is insane.

Can't believe them.

If you're going to call yourself a running team, then draft some damn good running backs.

[Coogs]

I think the entire offense sees Cassel miss his reads of open receivers. I have to imagine that film sessions on Mondays really leave the rest of the offensive players doubting their QB's abilities, consequently the level and quality of play has declined across the board.

[kcfanXIII]

Yes you can and you should.

I will place some blame at their feet, but i put most of the blame on cassel and the o line.

[FringeNC]

The run game isn't much better.

1 rushing TD this year, I think?

FAX

Teams are run blitzing up the middle against us because Cassel can't hit the hot receiver. Doesn't matter if we run or pass, we face a heavy middle rush, and Cassel (or perhaps the coaching staff) catch beat it.

Charles could beat the interior rush going to the perimeter, and kept teams honest.

I actually think our entire game-plan is designed to minimize the amount of thinking Cassel has to do on his feet, and why it is so simplistic. I think our offensive game-plan going forward will be less conservative. Haley just hates Cassel, and looked like a beaten man being chained to Cassel. Free from Cassel, I expect real game-plans going forward.

[FAX]

I was screaming all offseason that the Chiefs needed to draft another Back.

Taiwan Jones was the guy I wanted. He looks pretty damn good in Oakland right now. Strong and Fast. Better then anything we have in the stable right now.

They could've done SOMETHING.

Being a running team and leaning on two, undersized backs and one back that was done two years ago is insane.

Can't believe them.

If you're going to call yourself a running team, then draft some damn good running backs.

Seems simple to me.

We have McDervish and Jones. Both are miserable, at best. Very limiting in how you can use them.

Battle actually has potential, I believe. I like the way he runs when he hits the second level, in particular.

But so far as I am aware, that's it.

To make matters even worse, we have/had a quarterback who really needs an effective run game. It's absurd that we are so thin in that department. I could, of course, say the exact same thing about the safety positions.

FAX

[FAX]

Teams are run blitzing up the middle against us because Cassel can't hit the hot receiver. Doesn't matter if we run or pass, we face a heavy middle rush, and Cassel (or perhaps the coaching staff) catch beat it.

Charles could beat the interior rush going to the perimeter, and kept teams honest.

I actually think our entire game-plan is designed to minimize the amount of thinking Cassel has to do on his feet, and why it is so simplistic. I think our offensive game-plan going forward will be less conservative. Haley just hates Cassel, and looked like a beaten man being chained to Cassel. Free from Cassel, I expect real game-plans going forward.

That, I believe, is an accurate analysis ... of our past situation, anyhow.

Going forward? Who knows? I have no idea how Palko might perform. I expect him to have some butterflies the size of 747s.

I want Haley to take the damn handcuffs off this team and lets fling the rock to our receivers. We have very good receivers who can fight for a football if it's anywhere near them.

It's as though everybody ... Haley included ... is playing scared now.

FAX

[BigRock]

I think Palko will outplay Cassel.
I'm as optimistic as the next guy, but according to his Wiki, two years ago Tyler Palko got cut by a CFL team. In the preseason.

Even against the Patriots' weak defense, and even judging him by the remarkably low bar that's been set here, I would consider it a minor miracle if Palko played better than Cassel.

And if at the end of the season you were making up a list of reasons to fire Todd Haley, the fact that Palko sucks wouldn't crack the top 100.

[whoman69]

A lot is on Cassel, but the drops are unbelievable. The drops on third down kill drives.

IMO many of the drops are on Cassel not getting the ball where it needs to go for the receivers to catch the ball and to get YAC.

[whoman69]

Teams are run blitzing up the middle against us because Cassel can't hit the hot receiver. Doesn't matter if we run or pass, we face a heavy middle rush, and Cassel (or perhaps the coaching staff) catch beat it.

Charles could beat the interior rush going to the perimeter, and kept teams honest.

I actually think our entire game-plan is designed to minimize the amount of thinking Cassel has to do on his feet, and why it is so simplistic. I think our offensive game-plan going forward will be less conservative. Haley just hates Cassel, and looked like a beaten man being chained to Cassel. Free from Cassel, I expect real game-plans going forward.

Good take. Its the QBs job to recognize the blitzes and hit his hot read if needed. That hasn't been done because Cassel takes too long to get in throwing position.

[BoneKrusher]

Good take. Its the QBs job to recognize the blitzes and hit his hot read if needed. That hasn't been done because Cassel takes too long to get in throwing position.

exactly.
we need an Oline that can protect for 60 seconds per pass play for Cassel to succeed. ROFL

[DeezNutz]

Look at all the drive killing (and in some cases game changing) drops by Bowe. Yet for some reason i always catch flack for saying that this offense started going downhill with the arrival of Bowe.

i dont think this board is fond of new ideas

To answer the thread, the coaching is abysmal. Last game we had Baldwin pass protecting, probably something he's never done in his life at any level.

I've also seen plays where we max protected poorly only to leave Tight ends blocking the other teams top rusher, and a tackle taken out of the play sitting on his hands

No doubt. Bowe has made QBs like Huard, Croyle, Thigpen, and Cassel look like shit.

[BigMeatballDave]

Look at all the drive killing (and in some cases game changing) drops by Bowe. Yet for some reason i always catch flack for saying that this offense started going downhill with the arrival of Bowe.

i dont think this board is fond of new ideas

To answer the thread, the coaching is abysmal. Last game we had Baldwin pass protecting, probably something he's never done in his life at any level.

I've also seen plays where we max protected poorly only to leave Tight ends blocking the other teams top rusher, and a tackle taken out of the play sitting on his hands
LOL wut?
Are you trolling?

[FringeNC]

I'm as optimistic as the next guy, but according to his Wiki, two years ago Tyler Palko got cut by a CFL team. In the preseason.

Even against the Patriots' weak defense, and even judging him by the remarkably low bar that's been set here, I would consider it a minor miracle if Palko played better than Cassel.

And if at the end of the season you were making up a list of reasons to fire Todd Haley, the fact that Palko sucks wouldn't crack the top 100.

I think Haley deserves some responsibility regarding who the backup QB is. Maybe he really had no say. If so, does not inspire my confidence in Pioli. I've considered myself a Haley apologist up until these last two games. Brutal offensive performances. I know Palko most likely sucks, but if we can't get some signs of life from this offense, I see no reason why Haley should have a job next year.

[keg in kc]

Pick your poison. Cassel's terrible, the line can't protect in obvious passing situations, there's no threat at running back, the receivers can't separate consistently and they drop passes when they do, and the playcalling is downright Herm-like on 1st down which always puts us in bad spots. It's the perfect suck storm.

To me the biggest issues are Cassel and Bill Muir, both as line coach and coordinator.

[BigMeatballDave]

Problems:

1. OC. Weis showed last year that you CAN design an offense where Cassel isn't a liability. Running Dex up the gut, Battle to the outside, etc.
2. Loss of Charles.
3. Cassel
4. OL
5. Penalties. First drive KC faced a 1st and 25. Really? Nice way to start the game on the right foot.
6. Drops.

Weis wants you to stop hanging from his sack.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Honestly its a lot of things, injuries, drops, poor line play....but what they really need to do is let cassel be himself and sling it downfield. The playcalling could be a Tad less conservative.

[Chiefnj2]

Weis wants you to stop hanging from his sack.

My bad. The offense was a lot better in 2009 and this year without Weis. Haley has a beautiful football mind. He'll turn the team around any day now and have them prepared to play against N.E.

[FringeNC]

My bad. The offense was a lot better in 2009 and this year without Weis. Haley has a beautiful football mind. He'll turn the team around any day now and have them prepared to play against N.E.

The problem I have with blaming it on the loss of Weis is that in the 2nd half of the year in 2009, after Haley discovered Charles, our offense wasn't much different than it was in 2010. Two of the last three games in 2009, we put up close to 500 yards of offense. Our offense now is back to early pre-Charles 2009.

[Chiefnj2]

The problem I have with blaming it on the loss of Weis is that in the 2nd half of the year in 2009, after Haley discovered Charles, our offense wasn't much different than it was in 2010. Two of the last three games in 2009, we put up close to 500 yards of offense. Our offense now is back to early pre-Charles 2009.

Cassel was much better last year than he was in 2009. Last 5 games of 2009 Cassel had 3 TDs and 9 Ints.

[ModSocks]

Cassel was much better last year than he was in 2009. Last 5 games of 2009 Cassel had 3 TDs and 9 Ints.

Cassel game managed. He hardly even threw the ball. He threw for 69 freaking yards in the season opener.

Much better? Hardly.

[Chiefnj2]

Much better? Hardly.

Don't be stupid. Going from 16 TD/16INTs to 27 TD/ 7 INTs is a huge improvement. Sack numbers were almost cut in half as well. Game manager, yes - but still much better.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

http://files.myopera.com/AMGala/albums/200326/Everyone%20-%20The%20Professional.gif

[DeezNutz]

Weis sprayed an impressive amount of cologne on our steaming pile of Cassel.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That 27-7 was aberrational bullshit first of all. The numbers were also so skewed as to almost be manipulated. A shit ton of those TD passes were PA passes from the 1 or 2 on early downs in G2G situations.

[FringeNC]

Cassel was much better last year than he was in 2009. Last 5 games of 2009 Cassel had 3 TDs and 9 Ints.

Last 5 games of 2010: 5 TDs, 6 INTS, and a below 4 YPA in his last two games.

[BigMeatballDave]

Don't be stupid. Going from 16 TD/16INTs to 27 TD/ 7 INTs is a huge improvement. Sack numbers were almost cut in half as well. Game manager, yes - but still much better.

Game managers don't win SBs, stop making excuses.

[Chiefnj2]

Game managers don't win SBs, stop making excuses.

You are one dumb SOB. Nobody is making excuses. The discussion was whether Cassel was better in 2010 with Weis than he was in 2009 without him. Nobody is saying he can win a Super Bowl.

[jd1020]

You are one dumb SOB. Nobody is making excuses. The discussion was whether Cassel was better in 2010 with Weis than he was in 2009 without him. Nobody is saying he can win a Super Bowl.

Better in 2010 than 2009 is irrelevant. This is 2011 and he sucks like its 2009.

[BigMeatballDave]

You are one dumb SOB. Nobody is making excuses. The discussion was whether Cassel was better in 2010 with Weis than he was in 2009 without him. Nobody is saying he can win a Super Bowl.

Dumb? Maybe. Not nearly as stupid as you for blaming everything around Cassel for his problems. It's a stupid argument. Any QB that needs a gameplan to mask his deficiencies, should not be in this league.