How far must the Chiefs blow it up?

[whoman69]

Has our front office or coaching staff earned the chance to come back next year? How far do we need to blow this up to make it work?

Poll following.

[Dayze]

Piloi is saving Clark 28-30M a year. He's not going anywhere.

Haley might be gone if they go 4-12. Otherwise, expect Haley back witha small contract extension, and Cassel starting in 2012.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Literally to the ground, because ownership is just as responsible as Haley and Pioli, IMO.

But we all know that's not going to happen.

So in the interim, maybe Clark just needs to grow some balls. Dude went out of his way to mention his desire to draft and develop a franchise QB, and in the three years since he said that, the closest we've come is trading for a backup, claiming Denver's trash, and using the 135th pick on a QB.

You hired the wrong guy if you want a franchise QB, Clark.

[Hammock Parties]

New HC, new QB.

Pioli has two years to prove he can pick a HC and QB on his 2nd try.

[whoman69]

Piloi is saving Clark 28-30M a year. He's not going anywhere.

Haley might be gone if they go 4-12. Otherwise, expect Haley back, and Cassel starting in 2012.

Take a stand. We're not asking what Clark Hunt thinks.

[Sofa King]

Get a fucking QB and go from there.

[The Franchise]

New HC, New QB, New OC.

[ModSocks]

Meh.

I have faith that Pioli will bring in a 1st rnd QB. It's the single most glaring need on the team. Nothing else even comes close at this point.

Pioli is a smart man. In 2011 he allowed Cassel to sink or swim, find out what he truley has.

I think I have more faith in Pioli than most do. But if QB isn't addressed this offseason then i will officially jump off the bandwagon.

[Hammock Parties]

New HC, New QB, New OC.

One assumes any new HC will be given free run to hire his own staff.

If the new HC is subservient to the GM in this matter, the GM has failed.

[ModSocks]

One assumes any new HC will be given free run to hire his own staff.

If the new HC is subservient to the GM in this matter, the GM has failed.

Even if a new HC comes in, you can count on Crennel being grandfathered in.

[Dayze]

Take a stand. We're not asking what Clark Hunt thinks.

Ah...I misunderstood.

if it were me, both would be gone (Pioli and Haley)

*edit* I didn't realize the options in the poll. In that case, I'd get rid of Pioli,
his lack of depth, abundant cap room, lack of FA activity, presumably handcuffing Haley with Cassel etc.

[MahiMike]

None of the above.

[Hammock Parties]

Even if a new HC comes in, you can count on Crennel being grandfathered in.

This wouldn't be horrible, because a new HC might choose Crennel based on his credentials.

A gutting of the offensive staff is absolutely needed.

[BoneKrusher]

Deion Sanders made a comment last night on NFLN something like the Chiefs having the talent but they need to learn how to use it.

i just might agree with his comment once they have a real QB on the roster.

not sure about Haley tho. he acts dumb as fuck sometimes.
the Defense last night was all Romeo. Haley should take the heat for the Offense.

i vote to keep Pioli/Haley and see how they do with a QB thats NFL Caliber..

[ModSocks]

A gutting of the offensive staff is absolutely needed.

I agree.

I don't care who the QB is, there is no excuse for how bad this O has played. I've seen HC's do more with less.

[Fish]

Nuke it from orbit...

[OzarksChiefsFan]

Meh.

I have faith that Pioli will bring in a 1st rnd QB. It's the single most glaring need on the team. Nothing else even comes close at this point.

Pioli is a smart man. In 2011 he allowed Cassel to sink or swim, find out what he truley has.

I think I have more faith in Pioli than most do. But if QB isn't addressed this offseason then i will officially jump off the bandwagon.

I would like to see Stanzi at least get a couple of games in this year to see what he can do. I agree though that the QB position is the biggest need but we have a lot of holes to fill. Hopefully they get a coach in here that lets the offense try to score.

[whoman69]

New HC, new QB.

Pioli has two years to prove he can pick a HC and QB on his 2nd try.

QB is a given. I don't see anyone wanting Cassel back.

[whoman69]

I agree.

I don't care who the QB is, there is no excuse for how bad this O has played. I've seen HC's do more with less.

Last week Palko shit his pants as soon as he got close. This week he didn't wait that long. I don't know what you can do with that.

[ModSocks]

I would like to see Stanzi at least get a couple of games in this year to see what he can do. I agree though that the QB position is the biggest need but we have a lot of holes to fill. Hopefully they get a coach in here that lets the offense try to score.

I don't see a lot of holes.

We need Depth, but there aren't that many "holes" to plug IMO. I define "holes" as starters. I think Pioli has done a decent job of putting young potential on this team. Now it's just a matter of fulfilling that potential.

Houston
Lewis
Asamoah
Hudson
Powe/ The other NT who's name escapes me ATM
Baldwin
Moeaki
Belcher
etc.

You get my point.

I expect those guys to really step up next year. If they don't, then we can start talking about having numerous holes again.

[patteeu]

I'm torn between retaining or firing Haley. I'd like to see him get another chance with a healthy team, but if he's going to get fired in the next couple of years, I'd rather get it over with and move on to the next guy (and the next QB). I voted fire Haley, retain Pioli.

[ModSocks]

Last week Palko shit his pants as soon as he got close. This week he didn't wait that long. I don't know what you can do with that.

Well getting a talented QB is a given, but there was a time when Gailey made the other Tyler look competent.

BB & McDaniel's made Cassel into a Millionaire

Reid did the same thing with Kolb

Look at what Fox is able to with Tebow.

The list could go on and on I am sure.

[ChiefsCountry]

We have talent, we just need a fucking QB.

[suds79]

We have talent, we just need a ****ing QB.

This.

You retain what we have now and actually go out and draft a QB and we could be in business in a couple years.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Poll is flawed. I want a "dump Cassell, retain HC, dump GM option. I'm moldable on keeping Pioli if he gets some free agent depth in addition to drafting a 1st round QB.

[ModSocks]

We have talent, we just need a ****ing QB.

Pretty much this.

Despite Palko's piss poor play, he's proven that our WR's get open downfield. Our O-line has also been playing pretty damn well.

QB is CLEARLY the problem. And Haley needs to do something with his T/O management.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Granted, we need a franchise QB in the worst way, but I'm shocked that people want Pioli in charge of making that selection.

[evenfall]

All we really need is a QB.

[Chiefnj2]

I don't want Pioli, Haley or anyone else in this organization handling a QBOTF.

[DeezNutz]

Cap floor should mitigate concerns about Hunt's...um...responsible ways. Pioli, however, looks like a fucking disaster to this point, and his ability (or lack thereof) to evaluate talent is truly frightening.

[ModSocks]

Granted, we need a franchise QB in the worst way, but I'm shocked that people want Pioli in charge of making that selection.

Pioli made a fatal mistake with Cassel & depth behind him. IMO, this is Pioli's defining year.

Are you serious about finding a QB or not?

He had his hands tied last year. How do you replace a guy who is fresh off a Pro-Bowl and just tossed 27 td's?

It's kind of hard to argue with that.

However, this year is much different.

IMO, Pioli hasn't shown me anything to believe he wouldn't make a move. I felt that way this past draft with WR, and the year before with Eric Berry.

I asked that Pioli take care of these positions heading into the '11 Draft:

WR
C
NT
RB
RT
QB
OLB

He landed pretty damn good potential on 5 out 7, so he sees the same things we see.

Why would that be any different at QB?

For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Bearcat]

You hired the wrong guy if you want a franchise QB, Clark.

Clark wants parking spots filled and seats sold. 72,000 strong last night... who needs a franchise QB? :shrug:

[ModSocks]

I don't want Pioli, Haley or anyone else in this organization handling a QBOTF.

And who would you replace them with?

There is someone better out there right now? How many QB Coaches with Zorn's resume? How many potential HC's have coached SB caliber QB's? How many GM's with Pioli's Pedigree?

Get a freaking QB and all those guys will look like geniuses again.

[Hammock Parties]

Granted, we need a franchise QB in the worst way, but I'm shocked that people want Pioli in charge of making that selection.

He is going to be here regardless, so might as well get used to it.

As people have stated, who should he have picked instead of Cassel?

Sanchez, Freeman, etc, are all looking like shit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Pioli made a fatal mistake with Cassel & depth behind him. IMO, this is Pioli's defining year.

Are you serious about finding a QB or not?

He had his hands tied last year. How do you replace a guy who is fresh off a Pro-Bowl and just tossed 27 td's?

It's kind of hard to argue with that.

However, this year is much different.

IMO, Pioli hasn't shown me anything to believe he wouldn't make a move. I felt that way this past draft with WR, and the year before with Eric Berry.

I asked that Pioli take care of these positions heading into the '11 Draft:

WR
C
NT
RB
RT
QB
OLB

He landed pretty damn good potential on 5 out 7, so he sees the same things we see.

Why would that be any different at QB?

For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Had his hands tied? Are you kidding?

In 2004, Brett Favre threw for 4,000 yards, 30 TD's and completed 64% of his passes.

Dude's a lock HOF'er. Didn't stop the Packers from taking Aaron Rodgers, did it?

Hell, had Dick Rehbein not stood on the draft table and nearly stroke out over Tom Brady, Pioli and Belichick were ready to take Tim Rattay.

Tim Rattay.

Let that sink in.

We have two big problems on our hands, fellas.

We need a franchise QB in the worst way imaginable, and we have a GM who appears to be incapable of properly evaluating the position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He is going to be here regardless, so might as well get used to it.

I'm used to it. I posted this last night:

Don't care, and haven't cared for weeks.

I'm fully prepared to go into next season with Orton or Cassel as the QB with nothing in the form of a franchise guy to groom behind them.

Executive of the Decade my ass. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[ChiTown]

Burn this mother fucker to the ground!

[DeezNutz]

We'll lose out, have a last place schedule, miraculously "develop and improve" (read: beat shit teams, just like in '10), and some will immediately seek to service whichever mediocre QB is managing the game, demanding apology threads from all who dared question The Tree.

And then '13 will look much like this season, given the normal bump in schedule strength. Rinse, repeat, until we get a QB.

[ModSocks]

Had his hands tied? Are you kidding?

In 2004, Brett Favre threw for 4,000 yards, 30 TD's and completed 64% of his passes.

Dude's a lock HOF'er. Didn't stop the Packers from taking Aaron Rodgers, did it?

Hell, had Dick Rehbein not stood on the draft table and nearly stroke out over Tom Brady, Pioli and Belichick were ready to take Tim Rattay.

Tim Rattay.

Let that sink in.

We have two big problems on our hands, fellas.

We need a franchise QB in the worst way imaginable, and we have a GM who appears to be incapable of properly evaluating the position.

Okay, the Tom Brady thing is an anomaly. Not a fair analogy at all. NO ONE saw that coming. That has no bearing on anyone's ability to evaluate a QB. If that were the case then that means that there are 32 dumbass GM's in the NFL. Including the F/O of the all Mighty Steelers.

And the Favre/Rodgers thing is also not a good example. The Favre retirement talks were already in full gear at the time.



Look, So far, for the most part, Pioli/Haley have identified the same problems we have here at CP. In '10 we needed a Safety in the worst kind of way. He drafted two.

In '11 we need WR in the worst kind of way. He drafted one and signed another.

He has addressed most of the needs that we've all discussed here.

The QB is the only one remaining (okay, and RT). 09 was a disaster on every lvl. '10 things were looking up and there was faith that Cassel had turned the Corner.

in '11 it's clear that Cassel is not that answer and a change needs to be made.

Now....

Lets see what Pioli does.

If he fails to recognize it this year, then I agree with you.

Till then, I have faith.

[whoman69]

Pioli made a fatal mistake with Cassel & depth behind him. IMO, this is Pioli's defining year.

Are you serious about finding a QB or not?

He had his hands tied last year. How do you replace a guy who is fresh off a Pro-Bowl and just tossed 27 td's?

It's kind of hard to argue with that.

However, this year is much different.

IMO, Pioli hasn't shown me anything to believe he wouldn't make a move. I felt that way this past draft with WR, and the year before with Eric Berry.

I asked that Pioli take care of these positions heading into the '11 Draft:

WR
C
NT
RB
RT
QB
OLB

He landed pretty damn good potential on 5 out 7, so he sees the same things we see.

Why would that be any different at QB?

For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

This team has a lot more holes than just QB and depth there. He admits that Clark did not limit how much he could spend. He's about 25,000,000 excuses short.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Granted, we need a franchise QB in the worst way, but I'm shocked that people want Pioli in charge of making that selection.

Don't really WANT that...just resolved that this is the way that it will be. I would rather we draft a QB w/ Pioli than NOT draft a QB w/ Pioli.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We'll lose out, have a last place schedule, miraculously "develop and improve" (read: beat shit teams, just like in '10), and some will immediately seek to service whichever mediocre QB is managing the game, demanding apology threads from all who dared question The Tree.

And then '13 will look much like this season, given the normal bump in schedule strength. Rinse, repeat, until we get a QB.

Yeah, not so much on the "last place schedule."

6 division games.

AFC North
NFC South

AFC East Team based on standings (Miami?)

AFC South Team based on standings (Indy?)


Looks like another 6-7 games against 2011 playoff teams.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, not so much on the "last place schedule."

6 division games.

AFC North
NFC South

AFC East Team based on standings (Miami?)

AFC South Team based on standings (Indy?)


Looks like another 6-7 games against 2011 playoff teams.

Good to know that Pioli won't be able to hide next season.

His next decisions will definitely determine whether or not he gets a second contract.

[Mr. Laz]

New HC, New QB, New OC.
yep



although i wouldn't freak is it was just New OC/QB, but i just don't think Haley is going to allow it. Haley wants to run the offense ... period.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Good to know that Pioli won't be able to hide next season.

His next decisions will definitely determine whether or not he gets a second contract.

Uh, didn't you just tell me to "get used to it"?

Get used to Pioli being here for as long as he wants to be.

[Chiefnj2]

And who would you replace them with?

There is someone better out there right now? How many QB Coaches with Zorn's resume? How many potential HC's have coached SB caliber QB's? How many GM's with Pioli's Pedigree?

Get a freaking QB and all those guys will look like geniuses again.

Haley's game management sucks. He's not a good coach. They've scored 14 or fewer points in 6 games this season.

[BigMeatballDave]

Draft a QB

[Deberg_1990]

I guess ive lost faith in Pioli's willingness to draft a QB. Hes only drafted 1 in three years here and that was a low rounder. Think about that. As bad as QB play has been overall in the past 5 years, hes still only drafted 1. Good grief, just shoot me now.......

[BigMeatballDave]

Haley's game management sucks. He's not a good coach. They've scored 14 or fewer points in 6 games this season.

Yes, bad Haley. He's been given SO much talent at QB.

[ModSocks]

This team has a lot more holes than just QB and depth there. He admits that Clark did not limit how much he could spend. He's about 25,000,000 excuses short.

What are these Holes?

We have some young players gaining experience that should develop into good starters ATM.

Lets take a look:

QB: Obvious holes at 2 out of 3
RB: Great starter, but need Depth
WR: 3 legit Starters & a good special teamer, could use some depth
TE: One good starter, need another strong prospect behind him
LT: Albert is solid, not great. But not a hole either
LG: Lilja hasn't been very good here. He was better at RT. We could use an upgrade here, but I wouldn't define it as a "hole". If you want to, i can see your argument.

C: Young ascending player in Hudson. Played great at LG last night. Needs depth.
RG: Young ascending player here in Asamoah. Needs Depth
RT: gaping vagina. Richardson would make decent Depth, but not a starter.




Defense:

DE: Dorsey is solid, could use an upgrade, sure, but not a hole. Jackson has improved enough to be in that same category IMO. Solid but replaceable.

DT: Ascending players in Powe & (can't remember his name right now.

OLB: Hali. 'nuff said. Houston is came on strong last night, potential is there. Not a hole. Needs Depth

ILB: DJ. 'nuff said. Belcher is solid and replaceable. Could use an upgrade over Belcher. Needs depth

CB: Set.

S: Berry and an ascending Lewis. Needs Depth.


I only count 3 holes and a BIG need for Depth.

[ModSocks]

Haley's game management sucks. He's not a good coach. They've scored 14 or fewer points in 6 games this season.

Bad QB's will do that to you. Same way Warner made him look like an OC mastermind.

I'm not defending Haley. But let's be real here, they need a damn QB. Get one and you won't be scoring less than 14 pts per game.

[Chiefnj2]

Yes, bad Haley. He's been given SO much talent at QB.

And of course Haley has had no say in any QB decision. He's a deaf little mute. I enjoyed the way Pioli ran over to Stanzi at half time and took his helmet so Haley had no choice but to continue playing Palko.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How the fuck is Powe an ascending player?

Dude can't get on the field.

We have a lot of young players that people HOPE turn into solid starters.

But other than Eric Berry and Jon Asomoah, none of them have SHOWN anything consistently to imply that they will.

Kendrick Lewis is an ascending player?

GTFO.

The only two position groups that are absolutely set are WR and CB - and that's assuming Bowe is re-signed or tagged.

Otherwise, there are a lot of players that could, and should be upgraded if this team is going to seriously contend - for championships, not division titles.

[FloridaMan88]

Clark will not fire Pioli... anyone who tries to speculate this as a legit possibility isn't living in reality.

Haley should be fired, along with the entire offensive coaching staff.

Jeff Fisher would be my choice to replace Haley as HC, with Norv Turner as OC. The Chiefs need to get back to a variation of the Coryell-style of offense that they were successful with under Vermeil.

On offense drafting a QB is obviously a must... Barkley or RGIII (I prefer Barkley). Orton is an adequate stop-gap/veteran back-up QB. The offensive line must be overhauled. Albert is nothing more than a marginal left tackle. Lilja, Weigmann and Richardson need to be replaced.

Also the Chiefs need depth at TE and RB.

[Chiefnj2]

What are these Holes?

I only count 3 holes and a BIG need for Depth.

Your viewing everything as a glass is half full.
As a 25+ year Chief fan I'd say - you can't count on Moeaki, Berry and Charles all coming back from ACL repairs.
DL - I see two DE's who are 2 down players and a young completely unproven NT. I see a group who knew Denver was going to run it all day and couldn't stop them.
OL - Run blocking has been poor all year. Still need a RT (have for 3 years) and C/LG depending on where Hudson settles.
Bowe and Carr - who knows if they will be able to extend both of them.

Depth across the board at every position.

[Micjones]

If by "blow up" you mean QB, RT and a new Offensive Coordinator.

[ModSocks]

How the **** is Powe an ascending player?

Dude can't get on the field.

We have a lot of young players that people HOPE turn into solid starters.

But other than Eric Berry and Jon Asomoah, none of them have SHOWN that they will.

Kendrick Lewis is an ascending player?

GTFO.

The only two position groups that are absolutely set are WR and CB - and that's assuming Bowe is re-signed or tagged.

Otherwise, there are a lot of players that could, and should be upgraded if this team is going to seriously contend - for championships, not division titles.

So you're no longer in favor of letting young players develop eh?

I strongly disagree with your statements and am surprised you even made that statement.

Lewis is playing well. He could get better, but for a 2nd year player he is ascending. Not sure how you could even argue against that. He's not the guy getting burned.

All of sudden you have no faith in Houston? Hudson? Moeaki? Arenas?

But you're willing to give Baldwin the nod?

WTF?

[Reerun_KC]

Granted, we need a franchise QB in the worst way, but I'm shocked that people want Pioli in charge of making that selection.

After Jackson, Cassel and now Orton???

ROFL

[ModSocks]

After Jackson, Cassel and now Orton???

ROFL

Yeah, because Orton was such a BAD move at the time.....JFC....I know you guys are upset, but damn.....

[Reerun_KC]

Good to know that Pioli won't be able to hide next season.

His next decisions will definitely determine whether or not he gets a second contract.

According to whom?

YOU? ROFL

[dallaschiefsfan]

Haley's game management sucks. He's not a good coach. They've scored 14 or fewer points in 6 games this season.

Good QB's don't need OC's to be great game managers. I'm tired of the most important position being the OC or the play-caller. A great field general can make an average OC look great while great DC's can make a great OC look foolish when he has a below-average QB.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, because Orton was such a BAD move at the time.....JFC....I know you guys are upset, but damn.....

It still is a BAD Move...

its not going to change...

[Micjones]

How the **** is Powe an ascending player?

Dude can't get on the field.

We have a lot of young players that people HOPE turn into solid starters.

But other than Eric Berry and Jon Asomoah, none of them have SHOWN anything consistently to imply that they will.

Kendrick Lewis is an ascending player?

GTFO.

The only two position groups that are absolutely set are WR and CB - and that's assuming Bowe is re-signed or tagged.

Otherwise, there are a lot of players that could, and should be upgraded if this team is going to seriously contend - for championships, not division titles.

Kendrick Lewis has improved since this time last season.
How else shall we define the term "ascending"?
Lewis' ceiling can be debated, but he's definitely "ascending".

[KC_Lee]

Jeff Fisher would be my choice to replace Haley as HC.

I am not really sure why Fisher gets so much love, he's freaking Marty 2.0. The man has never seen a draw play (regardless of down and distance) that he didn't love. He strives for 8 - 8 and hopes to get lucky in a few games to go 10 - 6 or 11 - 5 from time to time.

Trust me on this, I have lived in Nashvegas for the past 8 years. Fisher is washed up and the game has passed him by.

[ModSocks]

It still is a BAD Move...

its not going to change...

That's retarded. He's better than anyone we have on the roster. But that's a bad move? Uhm'kay.

No one is pegging him as the freaking answer here. But he could be depth in the future or even save this team from being an embarassment week after week.

That's not what I would define as a bad move.

What would you rather them do? Sit on their hands? Bring back Croyle?

[Mr. Laz]

Just give these guy a QB and that will fix everything...

WTF makes anyone think that Haley can develop a QB? How is he going to teach a QB to run an offense when he doesn't know how to himself?

Haley "Luck, call timeout now"
Luck "But coach, calling timeout now is only going to save us 5 seconds with the 2 minute warning coming up"
Haley "Just call timeout now, you fuckhead"
Luck "fuckhead??"
Haley "Just building your character, fuckhead. Now call timeout and save those 5 seconds."
Haley "1st play: draw to DMC to start the 2 minute drive, then up the middle to Thomas jones ... then we will use a timeout to decide whether we are really going to try and score."
Haley "Btw tell the offense we are going for it on the next 4th down, no matter what, to show them how tough we are"

[htismaqe]

Jeff Fisher would be my choice to replace Haley as HC, with Norv Turner as OC. The Chiefs need to get back to a variation of the Coryell-style of offense that they were successful with under Vermeil.

ROFL

[suds79]

Jeff Fisher would be my choice to replace Haley as HC.

I'd be all for Fisher if I thought there was a chance in he!! Scott would hire him.

Nope. Scott will hire one of his good ole buddies. You can count on that.

That and that Jeff Fisher I'm sure will cost a pretty penny which we all know Clark wouldn't like. That man is cheap, cheap, cheap.

[ModSocks]

Just give these guy a QB and that will fix everything...

WTF makes anyone think that Haley can develop a QB? How is he going to teach a QB to run an offense when he doesn't know how to himself?

Haley "Luck, call timeout now"
Luck "But coach, calling timeout now is only going to save us 5 seconds with the 2 minute warning coming up"
Haley "Just call timeout now, you ****head"
Luck "****head??"
Haley "Just building your character, ****head. Now call timeout and save those 5 seconds."
Haley "1st play: draw to DMC to start the 2 minute drive, then up the middle to Thomas jones ... then we will use a timeout to decide whether we are really going to try and score."
Haley "Btw tell the offense we are going for it on the next 4th down, no matter what, to show them how tough we are"

Yeah, because you've seen Haley develop SOO many QB's, right?

I am not saying he can or can't. I am saying at least give the guy a chance to earn a label before slapping it on his forehead.

[Hammock Parties]

Uh, didn't you just tell me to "get used to it"?

Get used to Pioli being here for as long as he wants to be.

No, I don't believe Clark is that dumb.

If we don't win a playoff game by 2014, or if we aren't clearly headed in a positive direction with a good QB and HC, he will not extend Pioli.

We're going to have to show we're making progress in the next two years or Pioli is gone.

[Hammock Parties]

ROFL

Do you have a better idea?

[bricks]

Clark will not fire Pioli... anyone who tries to speculate this as a legit possibility isn't living in reality.

100% agreed.


Haley should be fired, along with the entire offensive coaching staff.

There are some coaches that are worth keeping. Crennel is one, Hoffman the other. The rest can gtfo imo.


On offense drafting a QB is obviously a must... Barkley or RGIII (I prefer Barkley). Orton is an adequate stop-gap/veteran back-up QB. The offensive line must be overhauled. Albert is nothing more than a marginal left tackle. Lilja, Weigmann and Richardson need to be replaced.

Also the Chiefs need depth at TE and RB.

Well said. I agree with all of that. They could possibly draft Barkley. They may have a shot at him? With the way things are going, I don't KC winning another game this year. KC could very well end up with a top 5 pick.Unless, Orton screws that up. I see Arizona, Seattle, Miami, Washington and Cleveland as their closest competition. The offense line is in pretty good shape. Albert, Hudson, and Asamoah look to be promising. I think they should draft a couple of tackles though. I think they need bigger, nastier and more athleticism on the line.

[ModSocks]

100% agreed.




There are some coaches that are worth keeping. Crennel is one, Hoffman the other. The rest can gtfo imo.




Well said. I agree with all of that. They could possibly draft Barkley. They may have a shot at him? With the way things are going, I don't KC winning another game this year. KC could very well end up with a top 5 pick.Unless, Orton screws that up. I see Arizona, Seattle, Miami, Washington and Cleveland as their closest competition. The offense line is in pretty good shape. Albert, Hudson, and Asamoah look to be promising. I think they should draft a couple of tackles though. I think they need bigger, nastier and more athleticism on the line.

I think the Browns may be contempt with McCoy. If his WR's would catch the damn ball they would've won yesterday.

Hopefully Seattle, Washington and Miami can string a few wins together.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah, because you've seen Haley develop SOO many QB's, right?

I am not saying he can or can't. I am saying at least give the guy a chance to earn a label before slapping it on his forehead.
You can say Cassel sucks all you want but he sucked less under Weis than Haley. The offense has looked unprepared under Haley, before and after Weis.

no QB in KC has improved under Haley, that i can tell.

Haley hasn't developed a QB ... ever. He inherited Kurt Warner AND Fitzgerald AND Boldin in the only full season he's ever run an NFL offense.

a better QB is not going to show Haley has to manage the clock or when to go for it on 4th down. It's not going to teach him how to call plays.

[ModSocks]

You can say Cassel sucks all you want but he sucked less under Weis than Haley. The offense has looked unprepared under Haley, before and after Weis.

no QB in KC has improved under Haley, that i can tell.

Haley hasn't developed a QB ... ever. He inherited Kurt Warner AND Fitzgerald AND Boldin in the only full season he's ever run an NFL offense.

a better QB is not going to show Haley has to manage the clock or when to go for it on 4th down. It's not going to teach him how to call plays.

Was it Weiss of was it Charles?

When you have the #1 rushing attack and a back that avg's 6.4 ypc, then yeah, your passing game opens up a lot.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So you're no longer in favor of letting young players develop eh?

I strongly disagree with your statements and am surprised you even made that statement.

Lewis is playing well. He could get better, but for a 2nd year player he is ascending. Not sure how you could even argue against that. He's not the guy getting burned.

All of sudden you have no faith in Houston? Hudson? Moeaki? Arenas?

But you're willing to give Baldwin the nod?

WTF?

I'm all for letting young players with significant upside develop.

IMO, guys like Lewis, Belcher and Jackson don't have significant upside. They're JAGs. They can absolutely be upgraded, and should be if this team is serious about contending.

Even if Houston pans out, we have nothing behind him and Hali.

Even if Hudson pans out, we have nothing behind him - or any of the other OL, for that matter.

Even if Moeaki grows a penis and starts playing more games than he misses - we still have nothing behind him.

Competition is king.

Again, this is about building a roster than contends annually for a Lombardi Trophy - not a fucking division banner. You can't pass on opportunities to improve the roster because a 5th round safety,a 3rd round OLB or a UDFA ILB might be a good player down the road.

[Chiefnj2]

Was it Weiss of was it Charles?

.

It wasn't Haley.

[bricks]

I think the Browns may be contempt with McCoy. If his WR's would catch the damn ball they would've won yesterday.

Hopefully Seattle, Washington and Miami can string a few wins together.

Seattle could probably win another game or two. They have a couple of divisional games coming up.

Chiefs need Miami to win another game. Its possible. They also have a couple of divisional games left and plus they play Philly who is not that good. I think Miami could pull off another win. They are better than there record indicates.

The team Id be worried about is Washington. They play Philly, Min, NE, NYG, and NYJ. They have one of the leagues worst offenses. chiefs are the worst of course.

[FloridaMan88]

ROFL

Another Herm dumbshit homer comes out of hiding.

Let's hear your argument for why the Chiefs shouldn't go back to the style of offense they ran under Vermeil/Saunders.

Let's hear it.

[Mr. Laz]

Was it Weiss of was it Charles?

When you have the #1 rushing attack and a back that avg's 6.4 ypc, then yeah, your passing game opens up a lot.fair enough but that still doesn't change that fact that much of his play calling is stupid. Or his clock and general offensive management sucks.

Will a better QB make the play calling job easier ... absolutely. Making the best of a crap situation shows who has the real offensive mind and who is just faking it.

i'm ok with Haley staying but i want a full OC and not this 3-headed monster bullshit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Another Herm dumbshit homer comes out of hiding.

Let's hear your argument for why the Chiefs shouldn't go back to the style of offense they ran under Vermeil/Saunders.

Let's hear it.

Dude, you're all over the fucking map.

In one post, you want a high-flying offense like Saunders used to run, then in the next post, you want to hire Jeff fucking Fischer, who rides the same ground and pound/conservative train to work as Herm and Marty.

Holy Christ, if you're going to rant, at least make some fucking sense.

[bricks]

fair enough but that still doesn't change that fact that much of his play calling is stupid. Or his clock and general offensive management sucks.

Will a better QB make the play calling job easier ... absolutely. Making the best of a crap situation shows who has the real offensive mind and who is just faking it.

i'm ok with Haley staying but i want a full OC and not this 3-headed monster bullshit.

I agree with you, but I honestly think Haleys ego would interfere with the Chiefs having that full competent OC that you desire.

Think about it? chiefs had two competent OCs that were here under his reign and I think he was a big reason why they left. why is Muir the OC? He is probably haleys good ole puppet. Thats why.

Haley just needs to go period.

[lcarus]

Meh.

I have faith that Pioli will bring in a 1st rnd QB. It's the single most glaring need on the team. Nothing else even comes close at this point.

Pioli is a smart man. In 2011 he allowed Cassel to sink or swim, find out what he truley has.

I think I have more faith in Pioli than most do. But if QB isn't addressed this offseason then i will officially jump off the bandwagon.

I'm in the same boat. I voted fire Pioli and fire Haley though, but only on the condition that Clark has someone better that he could hire. If not, stick with Pioli, and only fire Haley if Pioli has someone better that he can hire.

[Mr. Laz]

I agree with you, but I honestly think Haleys ego would interfere with the Chiefs having that full competent OC that you desire.

Think about it? chiefs had two competent OCs that were here under his reign and I think he was a big reason why they left. why is Muir the OC? He is probably haleys good ole puppet. Thats why.

Haley just needs to go period.
agreed, but many people around here refuse to believe that Haley had anything to do with the OC's leaving. So i just let it go.

[Hammock Parties]

Dude, you're all over the fucking map.

In one post, you want a high-flying offense like Saunders used to run, then in the next post, you want to hire Jeff fucking Fischer, who rides the same ground and pound/conservative train to work as Herm and Marty.

Holy Christ, if you're going to rant, at least make some fucking sense.

That's his reputation, but I don't think Jeff Fisher necessarily means ground and pound.

He hired Mike Heimerdinger towards the end of his tenure because he wanted to run a more explosive offense.

In any case, I think if we had a good QB, Jeff Fisher would be a good hire for the Chiefs.

[htismaqe]

Another Herm dumbshit homer comes out of hiding.

Let's hear your argument for why the Chiefs shouldn't go back to the style of offense they ran under Vermeil/Saunders.

Let's hear it.

You mentioned Saunders/Vermeil in the same breath as Jeff Fisher. ROFL

[Radar Chief]

Was it Weiss of was it Charles?

When you have the #1 rushing attack and a back that avg's 6.4 ypc, then yeah, your passing game opens up a lot.

This offense went to shit the very weekend Weiss announced his departure and hasn’t been the same since.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's his reputation, but I don't think Jeff Fisher necessarily means ground and pound.

He hired Mike Heimerdinger towards the end of his tenure because he wanted to run a more explosive offense.

In any case, I think if we had a good QB, Jeff Fisher would be a good hire for the Chiefs.

Titans passing offense ranks the last 5 years of JF's tenure:

30th, 27th, 27th, 23rd, 25th.

Explosive.

[Micjones]

I'm all for letting young players with significant upside develop.

IMO, guys like Lewis, Belcher and Jackson don't have significant upside. They're JAGs. They can absolutely be upgraded, and should be if this team is serious about contending.

Even if Houston pans out, we have nothing behind him and Hali.

Even if Hudson pans out, we have nothing behind him - or any of the other OL, for that matter.

Even if Moeaki grows a penis and starts playing more games than he misses - we still have nothing behind him.

Competition is king.

Again, this is about building a roster than contends annually for a Lombardi Trophy - not a ****ing division banner. You can't pass on opportunities to improve the roster because a 5th round safety,a 3rd round OLB or a UDFA ILB might be a good player down the road.

You can't have studs at every position on the field.
At some point...you can't keep upgrading players who are only two years into their Chiefs tenure. Especially when they've proven to be serviceable to slightly above average players like Belcher and Lewis.

We have too many other holes (at starting positions) to be worried about who's behind Asamoah or Hudson. We still don't have a quality RT (jury's still out on Gaither).

I think we can add those major pieces AND backfill the talent, but I don't think we should be relegating players like Belcher and Lewis to backup roles just yet.

[tredadda]

To me Pioli and Haley get one more chance. Pioli has a chance to right the wrong that is Matt Cassel and Haley gets to prove he has grown as a coach while having something other than utter crap under center. If Pioli fails to properly address the QB situation this year and I don't mean the usual Chiefs way (stopgap or late round QB) then he needs to be fired. If Haley is finally given a QB that doesn't suck and he still makes boneheaded decisions, then he is gone as well.

[Hammock Parties]

Titans passing offense ranks the last 5 years of JF's tenure:

30th, 27th, 27th, 23rd, 25th.

Explosive.

I think that had a lot to do with terrible QB choices more than anything.

I'm not saying I don't share your concern, but if we pick the right QB and OC, I think Fisher would be fine.

FYI, Fisher did have some top 10 passing offenses when he had McNair under center.

[Extra Point]

i'm ok with Haley staying but i want a full OC and not this 3-headed monster bullshit.
ROFL Good luck with that!ROFL

Laz picked choice C.

[The Franchise]

I'd rather see a defensive minded coach who stays the fuck out of the offense.

[lcarus]

To me Pioli and Haley get one more chance. Pioli has a chance to right the wrong that is Matt Cassel and Haley gets to prove he has grown as a coach while having something other than utter crap under center. If Pioli fails to properly address the QB situation this year and I don't mean the usual Chiefs way (stopgap or late round QB) then he needs to be fired. If Haley is finally given a QB that doesn't suck and he still makes boneheaded decisions, then he is gone as well.

I agree, and I think Haley would be a fine head coach if he A) had a good QB, which we all already know and B) get a good offensive coordinator and don't interfere.

That decision to kick the field goal in the 4th quarter, had me yelling at the tv, but when we had a chance to win at the end of the game I realized it wasn't that terrible of a decision.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think that had a lot to do with terrible QB choices more than anything.

I'm not saying I don't share your concern, but if we pick the right QB and OC, I think Fisher would be fine.

FYI, Fisher did have some top 10 passing offenses when he had McNair under center.

Fuck "fine".

This franchise has been content with "fine" for 40 fucking years.

[tredadda]

I agree, and I think Haley would be a fine head coach if he A) had a good QB, which we all already know and B) get a good offensive coordinator and don't interfere.

That decision to kick the field goal in the 4th quarter, had me yelling at the tv, but when we had a chance to win at the end of the game I realized it wasn't that terrible of a decision.

I don't really disagree with the kicking of the FG as this offense is quickly becoming historically bad. You have to take any points you can get and hope for the best. As for the OC situation, I mentioned that in another thread and most people responded as I figured they would and that was Haley and not interfering with his OC aint possible. I have to agree with them on that one.

[FloridaMan88]

Dude, you're all over the ****ing map.

In one post, you want a high-flying offense like Saunders used to run, then in the next post, you want to hire Jeff ****ing Fischer, who rides the same ground and pound/conservative train to work as Herm and Marty.

Holy Christ, if you're going to rant, at least make some ****ing sense.

Hardly.

How quickly you forget how run-based the Chiefs offense was under Saunders.

Also for all the talk that Fisher is an ultra-conservative head coach, that overlooks the Air McNair seasons under Fisher (during the prime of McNair's career in Tennessee), when the Titans were a pass first offense.

[FloridaMan88]

I'd rather see a defensive minded coach who stays the **** out of the offense.

Jeff Fisher as HC and Norv Turner as OC would achieve that.

Fisher's history in Tennessee proves that he is secure in bringing in a strong offensive coordinator. See Heimerdinger. See Norm Chow. Neither could be considered Bill Muir-type puppets.