Mellinger: Orton is the only option now for Chiefs at quarterback

[Tribal Warfare]

Orton is the only option now for Chiefs at quarterback (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/28/3291434/orton-is-the-only-option-now-for.html)
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The clear decision now is for Kyle Orton to be the Chiefs’ starting quarterback, not to save the season as much to find out what is salvageable.

That has to be the Chiefs’ primary concern now that playoff hopes rest only with those who are either employed by the team or delusional.

Because despite what’s turned into a mess — 4-12 is a real possibility — the Chiefs have enough in-house to expect to win the AFC West next year with the right additions and subtractions.

Tyler Palko has shown himself to be so bad the Chiefs can’t expect to make any real judgments on the rest of the roster. Ricky Stanzi is so inept the coaches haven’t even considered playing him the last two weeks.

That means Orton is not only the best option a week after being claimed off waivers from Denver — he’s the only option.

Signs are mixed at the moment about whether the Chiefs will do this. Coach Todd Haley says, “Tyler is the starter,” but also that Orton will work with the starters in practice and that learning the playbook shouldn’t be an issue.

Even if it requires a streamlined group of plays for Orton, and a wristband to remind him of terminology, this is what the Chiefs need to do not only to put their players in the best position to win, but more realistically, put the coaches and other decision-makers in the best position to evaluate.

The Chiefs have to keep a sickly 2011 from infecting 2012, and to do that they need to make the clearest evaluations possible. That is impossible with a quarterback who’s turned it over on seven of 21 possessions.

The obvious comparison on rushing a newly acquired quarterback onto the field is Carson Palmer in Oakland, and visions of his messy first game against the Chiefs are still vivid. But Orton will have had a week more of preparation for the Bears game this Sunday and is coming to the Chiefs from another team, not retirement.

Orton isn’t as talented as Palmer, obviously, but he is better prepared initially and if nothing else a close enough proxy to Matt Cassel for the Chiefs to make educated judgments during the final five games.

Orton had no place in Denver once the Broncos changed their offense to fit the, um, unique abilities of Tim Tebow. Orton had problems with interceptions — seven in five starts and 155 passes — but that’s the exception. Since his rookie year in 2005, Orton has a better-than-average interception rate each season he’s played.

And that’s among the most important things at the moment.

Palko was so bad against the Steelers that Hall of Famer Len Dawson openly wondered on the radio whether he’d been “ruined.”

Even if you take Palko’s seemingly unnatural self-confidence as legitimate, you have to consider that playing two disastrous games is a good way to lose a locker room that’s already losing.

If Tebow is being given credit for lifting the performance of teammates on both sides of the ball in Denver, don’t you wonder how long before Palko’s continuing blooper reel has the exact opposite impact on the Chiefs?

The rest of the Chiefs’ season is not about finding a miracle turnaround to make Haley’s words — “we are in this race, even though it might not appear so,” he said Monday — prophetic.

No, the rest of this season is about finding answers that will help the Chiefs next year.

Where does the defense need help? Which parts of the offensive line need to be changed? How willing should the Chiefs be to give Dwayne Bowe a long-term contract? Can Haley keep a team playing for nothing more than pride and the game film going hard? Is Bill Muir the right offensive coordinator?

These are critical questions that touch on just about every corner of the organization: players, coaches, and scouting.

We can all have opinions based on what we’ve seen through 11 games, but nearly one-third of the season remains.

The most recent two games have been largely wasted because Palko’s been so bad that other guys haven’t had much of a chance to impress. Wasting the final five games would be even worse.

Playing Orton means the Chiefs can keep a losing season from becoming a lost one.

SUNDAY’S GAME

•Chiefs vs. Bears at Soldier Field, noon, CBS (Chs. 5 and 13)

[Phobia]

I don't know how the author can assert Ricky Stanzi's ineptness without having seen him outside of a couple series in the preseason. Is that a presumption he's making simply because Palko wasn't benched? That's pretty naive considering Haley's sticktoitive-ness with every single other past QB no matter how poorly they played. Essentially, a Chiefs QB could stab Haley in the face and he won't be benched. If Haley actually started Stanzi one time he would have to turn the ball over 12x over 2 games to get the old heave-ho. Surely Stanzi isn't that inept. As far as Orton starting Sunday... I wouldn't put $3 on it at this point.

[BigMeatballDave]

Stupid. If Orton learning the playback isn't an issue, then give him 80% of the snaps and start him.

[kcxiv]

I don't know how the author can assert Ricky Stanzi's ineptness without having seen him outside of a couple series in the preseason. Is that a presumption he's making simply because Palko wasn't benched? That's pretty naive considering Haley's sticktoitive-ness with every single other past QB no matter how poorly they played. Essentially, a Chiefs QB could stab Haley in the face and he won't be benched. If Haley actually started Stanzi one time he would have to turn the ball over 12x over 2 games to get the old heave-ho. Surely Stanzi isn't that inept. As far as Orton starting Sunday... I wouldn't put $3 on it at this point.

If Stanzi cant start over Palko then there is something MAJORLY wrong with Stanzi. Its more a less him shitting on the Chiefs management. I dont blame him for doing it.

There is absolutely 0 gain keeping Palko in there. NOTHING!

[kcxiv]

One thign i dont get is after 20 years of being a Chiefs fan, the Chiefs organization is always so fucking stubborn to make a change or do something big.

Shit just boggles my mind. Its like they want to suck on purpose.

[BigMeatballDave]

One thign i dont get is after 20 years of being a Chiefs fan, the Chiefs organization is always so fucking stubborn to make a change or do something big.

Shit just boggles my mind. Its like they want to suck on purpose.

This.

Marty starting Grbac over Gannon for the play off game comes to mind. It's the biggest reason I fucking loathe Marty.

[kcxiv]

This.

Marty starting Grbac over Gannon for the play off game comes to mind. It's the biggest reason I ****ing loathe Marty.

haha, i think after that, that stupid ass unwritten rule went out of the window in the NFL. haha.

I am starting to fucking Loathe Pioli big time. Said it once n ill say it agian, getting Matt Cassel was a bigger fuck up then drafting Tyson Jackson.

[Pushead2]

Ricky Stanzi is so inept the coaches haven’t even considered playing him the last two weeks.

oof

[InChiefsHeaven]

I hate to say it, but he's probably right. There MUST be something wrong with Stanzi for them to even consider Palko. He's inexperienced, but my Lord, Palko is a veteran journeyman. A guy who is supposed to at least step in and take over in the short term as a backup. He's horrible. There is NO WAY Stanzi could do worse...I am mystified as to how they refuse to play him. The only conclusion is that there is really something wrong with Stanzi if he can't beat out Palko for that job. Or, there is something really wrong with the coaching evaluation process.

Orton is a proven commodity. He's not a world beater, but in order to evaluate the rest of the team, you need someone like him who will not get in the way of your other players. Palko is definitely in the way.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

If Stanzi cant start over Palko then there is something MAJORLY wrong with Stanzi. Its more a less him shitting on the Chiefs management. I dont blame him for doing it.

There is absolutely 0 gain keeping Palko in there. NOTHING!

Other than the proven history of guys like Rodgers, Brady, Rivers, Brees and countless others that show that sitting a guy on the bench for a year, or even two, can really help their development.

And, it isn't like the Chiefs' offense is very good around him. So, they would be setting him up to fail. I think he would be better than Palko. But, if he struggles, then that puts the fanbase against him.

Just smarter not to play him.

Granted, I want to see the kid play..... but it is smarter to sit him. This isn't Andrew Luck. The kid has talent, but isn't 'ready'.

[bevischief]

I hate to say it, but he's probably right. There MUST be something wrong with Stanzi for them to even consider Palko. He's inexperienced, but my Lord, Palko is a veteran journeyman. A guy who is supposed to at least step in and take over in the short term as a backup. He's horrible. There is NO WAY Stanzi could do worse...I am mystified as to how they refuse to play him. The only conclusion is that there is really something wrong with Stanzi if he can't beat out Palko for that job. Or, there is something really wrong with the coaching evaluation process.

Orton is a proven commodity. He's not a world beater, but in order to evaluate the rest of the team, you need someone like him who will not get in the way of your other players. Palko is definitely in the way.

Stanzi did something to his ankle last week in practice and was only there for injury to Palko .

[TheGuardian]

You guys don't think that if Stanzi was impressing the coaches he wouldn't be starting? I do.

There's obviously something wrong with him, and I don't mean physically. I mean he's obviously not ready to start an NFL game or he would have. Palko is no world beater and sucks dog nuts. What's that tell you about Stanzi?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

You guys don't think that if Stanzi was impressing the coaches he wouldn't be starting? I do.

There's obviously something wrong with him, and I don't mean physically. I mean he's obviously not ready to start an NFL game or he would have. Palko is no world beater and sucks dog nuts. What's that tell you about Stanzi?

Flawed logic. I saw Haley continue to start LJ. I have seen Haley bench DJ. I have seen Haley continue to start Richardson. I have seen Haley continue to give McCluster carries up the middle. I have seen him continue to get Jones the ball.

Haley likes Palko. Haley is gentle on Palko. He doesn't snap at him like he did Croyle. He talks about Palko's development.

See, Palko is a coaches kid. And, Palko, I am sure, does a great job on the chalkboard. And, he has confidence. He can do everything except throw the ball.

Haley looks at starting Stanzi as conceding the season. Right or wrong, that is what starting a rookie QB signals to the NFL and to the team.

To read anything more into it than Haley isn't comfortable with a rookie QB... is flawed logic.

Add in that you have a long history of pro bowl guys who have sat on the bench for a year or two, and to say that Stanzi just isn't impressive is a little short sighted, IMO.

[Deberg_1990]

I don't know how the author can assert Ricky Stanzi's ineptness without having seen him outside of a couple series in the preseason. Is that a presumption he's making simply because Palko wasn't benched? That's pretty naive considering Haley's sticktoitive-ness with every single other past QB no matter how poorly they played. Essentially, a Chiefs QB could stab Haley in the face and he won't be benched. If Haley actually started Stanzi one time he would have to turn the ball over 12x over 2 games to get the old heave-ho. Surely Stanzi isn't that inept. As far as Orton starting Sunday... I wouldn't put $3 on it at this point.

Do the media get to watch practices? Maybe hes seen things there that give him an opinion on him. if he has, he should expand on it at least.

[evenfall]

All you guys who see this vast conspiracy against Our Lord And Savior Ricky Stanzi are cracking me up. Yes, the team spent a draft pick on him and is now conspiring to bury him on the inactive list never to be seen again! Because why... because they like all the empty seats! Let the mad scientist laugh begin.

[Rasputin]

IMO, all the assumptions that Stanzi must suck because he hasn't got his shot yet are wrong. He is still listed as #2QB, Orton is #3QB, and Palko is given another week do to primarily we were in the game up tell the last drive. Our defense kept us in that game, if Steelers put more points on the bord Stanzi may have got some playing time last quarter.

IMO, they are going by pecking order. Palko was here last year & for some explicet reason Haley really likes him and wanted to give Palko the benifit of extra snaps in practice and second team unit.

Chiefs went above and beyond any meens necisarry during the short offseason program training camp to make sure Cassel was there guy first and formost. They were hell bent and whiskey bound the majority of snaps and playing time during preseason to Matt Cassel in hopes he would not suck for the regular season. Fail on all accounts. That was neglect for our rookie to be given opportunity to learn by playing during preseason.

Now my assumption is that after listening to Haley speek in his press, Orton was brought here for depth purpose. He is going with Palko because unto the naked eye of the fan, Palko made progress we were in the game Palko gave us a chance to win. FAIL. Defence kept us in the game but that does not matter to Haley we were in the game. That's big part why Stanzi didn't get in the game, but that does not meen he wont get his chance in the next two weeks. Haley spoke highly of Ricky Stanzi, emphasized he is a rookie, but said a lot of good qualities about him.

At this point and it could change day to day, but as of today Palko listed #1, Stanzi #2, & dipshit Orton is #3. I am still holding on to hope that Stanzi gets a chance. It may take another blow out to get it but I think he will be in before ****face Orton.

[Chiefnj2]

At this point and it could change day to day, but as of today Palko listed #1, Stanzi #2, & dipshit Orton is #3. I am still holding on to hope that Stanzi gets a chance. It may take another blow out to get it but I think he will be in before ****face Orton.

You don't really believe that, do you?

They didn't bring in Orton to sit behind Stanzi. If they didn't pull Palko at halftime of the last game, they never will.

[evenfall]

You don't really believe that, do you?

They didn't bring in Orton to sit behind Stanzi. If they didn't pull Palko at halftime of the last game, they never will.

Palko is going to get one more game because Orton doesn't know the offense and hasn't had even a week of practice yet. Then Orton will mop up the season.

[jd1020]

Palko is going to get one more game because Orton doesn't know the offense and hasn't had even a week of practice yet. Then Orton will mop up the season.

Ya... no he wont. Palko is done and lucky to even be on the roster after Orton takes over next week.

[Slainte]

Orton will either start this Sunday or take over the game midpoint or thereabouts.

Palko will be his backup for the remainder of the season.

Stanzi will not dress out again this year barring injury.

[whoman69]

Do the media get to watch practices? Maybe hes seen things there that give him an opinion on him. if he has, he should expand on it at least.

Really. That's a pretty bold statement that he is inept and somehow Palko is a pass. Media in KC sucks. I know the organization doesn't want to say anything but sometimes you have to ask the questions and if they don't give an answer ask it again. I get it. The Chiefs don't want to give any secrets to the opposition. You're keeping your own fans in the dark as well unless its a fluff piece.

[TheGuardian]

Flawed logic. I saw Haley continue to start LJ. I have seen Haley bench DJ. I have seen Haley continue to start Richardson. I have seen Haley continue to give McCluster carries up the middle. I have seen him continue to get Jones the ball.

1. No one knew what we had in Charles then. NO ONE. Revisionist history is bullshit.

2. Benching DJ WORKED.

3. Obviously Gaither wasn't the answer as the Raiders passed on him and we have cut him. I'm sure if we had a better option than Richardson he'd be starting. My guess is that's why Gaither was brought in, it just didn't pan out.

4. Yes, because those guys are on the team and we don't have better options right now.


Haley likes Palko. Haley is gentle on Palko. He doesn't snap at him like he did Croyle. He talks about Palko's development.

See, Palko is a coaches kid. And, Palko, I am sure, does a great job on the chalkboard. And, he has confidence. He can do everything except throw the ball.

Haley looks at starting Stanzi as conceding the season. Right or wrong, that is what starting a rookie QB signals to the NFL and to the team.

To read anything more into it than Haley isn't comfortable with a rookie QB... is flawed logic.

Add in that you have a long history of pro bowl guys who have sat on the bench for a year or two, and to say that Stanzi just isn't impressive is a little short sighted, IMO.

What should he do, throw Palko under the bus??????? Get the f outta here.

Again, Haley wants to win. If Stanzi were showing hot shit in practice he'd be starting. He's obviously not ready.

[tk13]

Now the Chiefs have brainwashed the media in their efforts to keep Stanzi down. This is bigger than JFK. Years from now people will be reviewing grainy footage from the sidelines to determine whether Haley or Zorn kept Stanzi out of the game.
Posted via Mobile Device

[MahiMike]

"Orton isn’t as talented as Palmer, obviously"

Say whu?

[Rasputin]

You don't really believe that, do you?

They didn't bring in Orton to sit behind Stanzi. If they didn't pull Palko at halftime of the last game, they never will.

I'm going to believe it until they change the depth chart.


I believe, Haley has a fairy tail fantasy that Palko is going turn out like Kurt Warner esq story. I believe they put all there cards in Cassel from start to finnish and had Palko as primary back up for his determination to make a team after being cut so many times. Palko was here last year, Haley new Palko from his days at Arizona. Haley wants Palko to succeed just like they wanted Cassel to succeed. They neglected Stanzi for preseason & up until Cassel " injury " for practice and reps. Now they are trying get him game ready & needed Orton for depth on the charts. It's Stanzis turn however & I believe upon Palko really ****ing it up he will get his shot. At any rate, Stanzi is listed as #2 and is next in line. He just may get his shot yet.

[MahiMike]

I'm going to believe it until they change the depth chart.



I've never believed the depth chart. Been wrong all year. And what kind of advanced coach speak is this:?

"Palko is our starter but Orton will get most of the 1st team snaps".

oh, ok.

[Hammock Parties]

Ricky Stanzi probably stuck his hand up some gal's skirt at a bar.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm going to believe it until they change the depth chart.


I believe, Haley has a fairy tail fantasy that Palko is going turn out like Kurt Warner esq story. I believe they put all there cards in Cassel from start to finnish and had Palko as primary back up for his determination to make a team after being cut so many times. Palko was here last year, Haley new Palko from his days at Arizona. Haley wants Palko to succeed just like they wanted Cassel to succeed. They neglected Stanzi for preseason & up until Cassel " injury " for practice and reps. Now they are trying get him game ready & needed Orton for depth on the charts. It's Stanzis turn however & I believe upon Palko really ****ing it up he will get his shot. At any rate, Stanzi is listed as #2 and is next in line. He just may get his shot yet.

They aren't trying to get Stanzi ready. Orton is taking all of the snaps that should have went to Stanzi.

Tell Urban he's ahead of Baldwin on the depth chart.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Haley is a stubborn ass. Any other coach would've put Stanzi in after those terrible turnovers by Palko. There is nothing wrong with Stanzi they just want you to think that.

[RealSNR]

1. No one knew what we had in Charles then. NO ONE. Revisionist history is bullshit.Please. Everybody knew that Charles was the better rusher than LJ that season. It was plain as day. Haley was just being a fucking moron as usual.

[petegz28]

This.

Marty starting Grbac over Gannon for the play off game comes to mind. It's the biggest reason I ****ing loathe Marty.

That was Peterson, not Marty

[Bob Dole]

I've never believed the depth chart. Been wrong all year. And what kind of advanced coach speak is this:?

"Palko is our starter but Orton will get most of the 1st team snaps".

oh, ok.

Because Palko doesn't need the reps. He's already at the top of his game.

[Renegade]

Haley is a stubborn ass. Any other coach would've put Stanzi in after those terrible turnovers by Palko. There is nothing wrong with Stanzi they just want you to think that.

Andy Reid even benched Jackson after two dropped touchdowns, yet we won't bench anyone for three INT's. Each coach is different I guess.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You could tell from his production in 2008 that Jamaal Charles, who had over 600 yards of total offense on 90 touches, was a fuck of a lot better than Dantrell Savage, and people chastised that move as it happened. In no way was that revisionist history.

[Rasputin]

They aren't trying to get Stanzi ready. Orton is taking all of the snaps that should have went to Stanzi.

Tell Urban he's ahead of Baldwin on the depth chart.

I'm just a nieve Chiefs fan that is all.


I just want to believe that Chiefs have the balls to play a rookie QB.

I just want to believe that Chiefs will draft a QB in the first round.

I just want to believe that there is a Santa Claus.

I just want to believe that wrastling is real.

[Epic Fail 007]

This.

Marty starting Grbac over Gannon for the play off game comes to mind. It's the biggest reason I ****ing loathe Marty.

Man that was Carl he told Marty to start Grbac

[FAX]

I hate to say it, but he's probably right. There MUST be something wrong with Stanzi for them to even consider Palko. He's inexperienced, but my Lord, Palko is a veteran journeyman. A guy who is supposed to at least step in and take over in the short term as a backup. He's horrible. There is NO WAY Stanzi could do worse...I am mystified as to how they refuse to play him. The only conclusion is that there is really something wrong with Stanzi if he can't beat out Palko for that job. Or, there is something really wrong with the coaching evaluation process.

Orton is a proven commodity. He's not a world beater, but in order to evaluate the rest of the team, you need someone like him who will not get in the way of your other players. Palko is definitely in the way.

I agree with much of what has been posted in this thread thing ... and most of what is written in this particular post.

I wouldn't categorize Palkoh-no as a "veteran", though. I mean, he's been in the Army for awhile, but until two weeks ago, he's been working in the kitchen ... not amidst the bullets.

I have to believe that Palkoh-no really is our best quarterback right now ... at least our best-prepared. Stanzi probably really hasn't been ready to take the reins ... not due to a particular lack of talent (since none of our quarterbacks are awash in that department) ... but probably due more to a lack of experience. They won't start him as long as there is one, single, mathematical chance that we can back into the playoffs through some incomprehensible series of unforeseeable miracles.

As for Orton ... blech.

FAX

[Chiefnj2]

I loathe Haley for not having Stanzi prepared.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm just a nieve Chiefs fan that is all.


I just want to believe that Chiefs have the balls to play a rookie QB.

I just want to believe that Chiefs will draft a QB in the first round.


I feel your pain. When Cassel went down, I thought - good we'll get 2-3 weeks of Palko and a few weeks of Stanzi. We'll get to see how good the current coaches are in developing and getting a rookie QB up to speed, and we'll get to see if a long shot has any future as a QB. The whole Orton thing has dashed those hopes.

[MahiMike]

I loathe Haley for not having Stanzi prepared.

Can't really fault Haley for that. He was trying to give Cassel as many reps as possible to see if he could finally come around. There were no reps left for the rookie.

[MahiMike]

I feel your pain. When Cassel went down, I thought - good we'll get 2-3 weeks of Palko and a few weeks of Stanzi. We'll get to see how good the current coaches are in developing and getting a rookie QB up to speed, and we'll get to see if a long shot has any future as a QB. The whole Orton thing has dashed those hopes.

I agree. But the CP poll indicated we were in the minority in that thinking. Now that it's time to actually start Orton and sit Stanzi, I see some folks backtracking on their initial vote.

[FAX]

I feel your pain. When Cassel went down, I thought - good we'll get 2-3 weeks of Palko and a few weeks of Stanzi. We'll get to see how good the current coaches are in developing and getting a rookie QB up to speed, and we'll get to see if a long shot has any future as a QB. The whole Orton thing has dashed those hopes.

I honestly don't think that's the way we should be looking at this, Mr. Chiefnj2 ... the Orton deal, I mean.

The Chiefs FO and staff are tired of losing ... just like everybody is at this point. Orton was a sign that the Cassel experiment is rapidly ending and, no matter what it took to get there, that is a good thing.

Any move or moves at the QB position is/are beneficial for the fans.

FAX

[Rasputin]

I loathe Haley for not having Stanzi prepared.

They practice and play the "Wildcat"...

They expect the "Wildcat" play to get them a first down.

[FAX]

They practice and play the "Wildcat"...

They expect the "Wildcat" play to get them a first down.

It got us a touchdown that one time.

FAX

[Chiefnj2]

Orton was a sign that the Cassel experiment is rapidly ending and, no matter what it took to get there, that is a good thing.

Any move or moves at the QB position is/are beneficial for the fans.

FAX

I don't see it as Cassel's exit.

[Rasputin]

It got us a touchdown that one time.

FAX

Was that our one and only one rushing touchdown we have had for the season?

[tk13]

I loathe Haley for not having Stanzi prepared.

There isn't a team in football that prepares their 3rd string QB to play. That's just the way it is. At that point you're just slinging it up against the wall and hoping it sticks.

And this year was probably worse because Stanzi never had rookie workouts and a proper training camp.
Posted via Mobile Device

[FAX]

Was that our one and only one rushing touchdown we have had for the season?

I think so.

FAX

[Rasputin]

I think so.

FAX

...lweK

[whoman69]

I agree. But the CP poll indicated we were in the minority in that thinking. Now that it's time to actually start Orton and sit Stanzi, I see some folks backtracking on their initial vote.

I don't see them backtracking. Stanzi has been portrayed as unprepared by the Chiefs because they don't want him to play. I don't think anyone with sanity really thinks Stanzi could have been worse than Palko. We all want to know what was said between Zorn and Haley that kept Stanzi out of the game. We want to know where in the organization the order is coming down from to keep Stanzi out. If they truly believe that Stanzi is worse than Palko then Stanzi should be cut. He will never make it in this league if that is true. Stanzi has been here since August and isn't prepared while Orton can learn the offense in a week and a half?

We are being lied to by the organization to cover something. Anyone who watched the game can see that Palko is not an NFL QB. The fact that the organization still promotes him as the starter shows how deep the lies run and the secrecy overwhelms all. If this is the Patriot way, I'm tired of it.

[Chiefnj2]

There isn't a team in football that prepares their 3rd string QB to play. That's just the way it is. At that point you're just slinging it up against the wall and hoping it sticks.

And this year was probably worse because Stanzi never had rookie workouts and a proper training camp.
Posted via Mobile Device

He shouldn't be the 3rd string. He should have been prepared from day 1 to be the #2 guy.

Somehow Kaepernick, Locker, Ponder, Yates and Gabbert have been able to see the field even though they weren't starters at the beginning of the year.

[FAX]

There's also a lot of stuff being read into that interchange between Pioli and Zorn ...

Do we really know they were discussing Stanzi?

FAX

[TheGuardian]

Please. Everybody knew that Charles was the better rusher than LJ that season. It was plain as day. Haley was just being a ****ing moron as usual.

Of course they did. :facepalm:

[Chiefnj2]

There's also a lot of stuff being read into that interchange between Pioli and Zorn ...

Do we really know they were discussing Stanzi?

FAX

Of course not.

[tk13]

There's also a lot of stuff being read into that interchange between Pioli and Zorn ...

Do we really know they were discussing Stanzi?

FAX

FAX, nobody here knows anything. I don't mean that to be a smarty pants... but really we're about one step away from saying HAARP is keeping Stanzi down, and nobody here knows anything. He could be lighting it up in practice and Haley's just playing favorites... or he legitimately might be looking worse than Palko out there. People laugh and say that's not possible, but it definitely is. Nobody really knows anything. The only thing people are going on is what he did in college.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

He shouldn't be the 3rd string. He should have been prepared from day 1 to be the #2 guy.

Somehow Kaepernick, Locker, Ponder, Yates and Gabbert have been able to see the field even though they weren't starters at the beginning of the year.

Yeah, somehow three R1 picks have been able to see the field, along with a R2 pick who threw three passes in mop-up duty and a R5 pick who's only playing because the QB1 and QB2 are done for the year.

Awesome comparison.

[Chiefnj2]

Yeah, somehow three R1 picks have been able to see the field, along with a R2 pick who threw three passes in mop-up duty and a R5 pick who's only playing because the QB1 and QB2 are done for the year.

Awesome comparison.

Who cares what round the player was taken. Until Bradford played well his rookie year, all I read about from drafturbators was how important it was to take a college QB from a pro system - better footwork, better reads, etc. Stanzi has 3 years as a starter in a pro system. He might not have the ceiling any of those other guys have, but his basement should be above most of them. He should have had a leg up on most of those guys.

[frankotank]

Other than the proven history of guys like Rodgers, Brady, Rivers, Brees and countless others that show that sitting a guy on the bench for a year, or even two, can really help their development.

And, it isn't like the Chiefs' offense is very good around him. So, they would be setting him up to fail. I think he would be better than Palko. But, if he struggles, then that puts the fanbase against him.

Just smarter not to play him.

Granted, I want to see the kid play..... but it is smarter to sit him. This isn't Andrew Luck. The kid has talent, but isn't 'ready'.

wow. honestly that's the best and most logical explanation I've heard yet. hadn't thought of it that way. kinda like throwing him to the wolves could ruin him. I think my anger level just clicked down a couple notches....

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who cares what round the player was taken. Until Bradford played well his rookie year, all I read about from drafturbators was how important it was to take a college QB from a pro system - better footwork, better reads, etc. Stanzi has 3 years as a starter in a pro system. He might not have the ceiling any of those other guys have, but his basement should be above most of them. He should have had a leg up on most of those guys.

Yeah, after those two statements, your opinions are considered worthless.

Dear God, it's amazing the lengths guys are going to make a guy taken 135th overall into something he's not.

99% of late round picks at the position are projected to be career backups at best.

To imply he should have a "leg up" on guys taken 8th, 10th 12th and 36th overall is potentially the most idiotic thing ever posted on this message board.

Good grief.

[OnTheWarpath15]

FAX, nobody here knows anything. I don't mean that to be a smarty pants... but really we're about one step away from saying HAARP is keeping Stanzi down, and nobody here knows anything. He could be lighting it up in practice and Haley's just playing favorites... or he legitimately might be looking worse than Palko out there. People laugh and say that's not possible, but it definitely is. Nobody really knows anything. The only thing people are going on is what he did in college.
Posted via Mobile Device

C'mon, TK.

He should have a leg up on Ponder, Gabbert, Locker and Kaepernick.

[FAX]

FAX, nobody here knows anything. I don't mean that to be a smarty pants... but really we're about one step away from saying HAARP is keeping Stanzi down, and nobody here knows anything. He could be lighting it up in practice and Haley's just playing favorites... or he legitimately might be looking worse than Palko out there. People laugh and say that's not possible, but it definitely is. Nobody really knows anything. The only thing people are going on is what he did in college.
Posted via Mobile Device

Obviously, the Cone Of Silence has been lowered over the entire program ... no doubt, causing an horrific echo that is inhibiting our ability to devise an offensive game-plan consisting of more than 10 plays.

The speculation has reached moronic proportions in some cases, though. The safe bet here seems to be that Stanzi simply had no off-season or training camp and, for a rookie, that's not good.

When it comes to developing rookie quarterbacks though, I'm sort of old-school. I think it takes at least a year of bench time before a 6th rounder is ready to think about starting in the NFL. The last thing you want is to see him back-slide, lose confidence, or incur an injury.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, after those two statements, your opinions are considered worthless.

Dear God, it's amazing the lengths guys are going to make a guy taken 135th overall into something he's not.

99% of late round picks at the position are projected to be career backups at best.

To imply he should have a "leg up" on guys taken 8th, 10th 12th and 36th overall is potentially the most idiotic thing ever posted on this message board.

Good grief.

Agree...

I want Stanzi to finish out the season. It would be nice to know if he is a long term solution to a backup position or not...

[FringeNC]

Yeah, after those two statements, your opinions are considered worthless.

Dear God, it's amazing the lengths guys are going to make a guy taken 135th overall into something he's not.

99% of late round picks at the position are projected to be career backups at best.

To imply he should have a "leg up" on guys taken 8th, 10th 12th and 36th overall is potentially the most idiotic thing ever posted on this message board.

Good grief.

Drafting position represent book value, and who cares about it? It's old information. In a re-draft, I'm guessing Andy Dalton is taken before Blaine Gabbert.

[Micjones]

This isn't Madden people...

It's very possible that Stanzi couldn't do any worse than Palko in his 2 starts, but that does not mean that forcing him onto the field (before he's ready) couldn't stunt his growth. I can't, for the life of me, understand why this fanbase is so anxious to see this kid play when it's obvious the staff doesn't think he's game-ready. If Robert Griffin is drafted by this organization he'll probably sit for a year. And he's a Top 10 talent. Why do we expect a 5th-Rounder to be prepared in a "lockout shortened off-season" turned "Regular Season where he's been inactive for most of the year" to be ready?

[InChiefsHeaven]

This isn't Madden people...

It's very possible that Stanzi couldn't do any worse than Palko in his 2 starts, but that does not mean that forcing him onto the field (before he's ready) couldn't stunt his growth. I can't, for the life of me, understand why this fanbase is so anxious to see this kid play when it's obvious the staff doesn't think he's game-ready.

Because we are tired of watching old QB's suck. We could handle watching a rookie QB suck. But we're tired of watching old brokedick retread journeyman never-starters play QB for this team.

[frankotank]

This isn't Madden people...

It's very possible that Stanzi couldn't do any worse than Palko in his 2 starts, but that does not mean that forcing him onto the field (before he's ready) couldn't stunt his growth. I can't, for the life of me, understand why this fanbase is so anxious to see this kid play when it's obvious the staff doesn't think he's game-ready.

it's desperation! and I really hadn't considered the possibility that throwing him out there too soon could ruin the kid.
I just want to win. I didn't see this hellhole of a season coming. never woulda imagined it could be this bad.

[Micjones]

Because we are tired of watching old QB's suck. We could handle watching a rookie QB suck. But we're tired of watching old brokedick retread journeyman never-starters play QB for this team.

As am I, but unfortunately that has nothing to do with what is prudent for this organization to do concerning Stanzi.

[whoman69]

Yeah, after those two statements, your opinions are considered worthless.

Dear God, it's amazing the lengths guys are going to make a guy taken 135th overall into something he's not.

99% of late round picks at the position are projected to be career backups at best.

To imply he should have a "leg up" on guys taken 8th, 10th 12th and 36th overall is potentially the most idiotic thing ever posted on this message board.

Good grief.

Is it inconceivable he should be projected better than Palko, whom we have seen is horrible?

[Micjones]

it's desperation! and I really hadn't considered the possibility that throwing him out there too soon could ruin the kid.
I just want to win. I didn't see this hellhole of a season coming. never woulda imagined it could be this bad.

I think we all want that, but there are other factors to consider.

[Reerun_KC]

Is it inconceivable he should be projected better than Palko, whom we have seen is horrible?

At this point there isnt any reason Stanzi shouldnt be playing...

the season is a total loss with all the injuries. Playing Orton does more damage to the franchise long term than any short term success.

Playing Orton could potentially set this franchise back another 4-6 years...

That is how devastating his waiver wire pickup actually was...

[whoman69]

As am I, but unfortunately that has nothing to do with what is prudent for this organization to do concerning Stanzi.

No' ga' do it, wouldn't be prudent. If Stanzi is truly so unprepared and lacking in talent that he is worse than Palko, he has no future to be protected.

[Chiefnj2]

Yeah, after those two statements, your opinions are considered worthless.

Dear God, it's amazing the lengths guys are going to make a guy taken 135th overall into something he's not.

99% of late round picks at the position are projected to be career backups at best.

To imply he should have a "leg up" on guys taken 8th, 10th 12th and 36th overall is potentially the most idiotic thing ever posted on this message board.

Good grief.

A QB who comes from a major conference with three years starting in a pro system, who played well against good competition, shouldn't have a leg up against a guy from a non major conference who didn't play in a pro system? We aren't talking long term potential, just the starting point.

In the past I've posted the link from nfl.com where "experts" are discussing Stanzi, Kaepernick and Dalton and they said he was the most nfl ready of the three.

[OnTheWarpath15]

A QB who comes from a major conference with three years starting in a pro system, who played well against good competition, shouldn't have a leg up against a guy from a non major conference who didn't play in a pro system? We aren't talking long term potential, just the starting point.

In the past I've posted the link from nfl.com where "experts" are discussing Stanzi, Kaepernick and Dalton and they said he was the most nfl ready of the three.

Why were those non-major conference, non-pro system guys all taken 100+ picks ahead of Stanzi?

I guess this is where you tell me Mel Kiper was right and 32 NFL Executives were wrong.

[tk13]

The goal shouldn't be to be better than Palko. The goal should be to put Stanzi in a position to be successful.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Chiefnj2]

Why were those non-major conference, non-pro system guys all taken 100+ picks ahead of Stanzi?

I guess this is where you tell me Mel Kiper was right and 32 NFL Executives were wrong.

Because of a higher ceiling. Or maybe, they were wrong.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The goal shouldn't be to be better than Palko. The goal should be to put Stanzi in a position to be successful.
Posted via Mobile Device

And as a 5th round pick, that isn't to throw him out there unprepared against the Steelers, Bears, Jets, Packers, etc.

[chiefscafan]

Fellas if we want even a chance in this game orton needs to start.

[TheGuardian]

At this point there isnt any reason Stanzi shouldnt be playing...



Of course there is.

None of us know his grasp of the playbook, or what he looks like in practice, or what he does in comparison to what the coaches are telling him.

Losing never cultivates anything positive. Period.

Aaron Rodgers sat behind Favre for three fucking seasons. And he was a first rounder. There's no reason why Stanzi, even if he is the future, can't sit behind Orton right now and learn more.

This clamoring for Stanzi is quite comical because people have no idea if the guy can even make a proper NFL read or not. And it's not like the season is lost, and we're not picking Luck. So who fucking cares?

There's nothing wrong with STanzi sitting and learning right now. JFC.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Because of a higher ceiling. Or maybe, they were wrong.

LMAO

HEY NFL! YOU ALL FUCKED UP! STANZI'S AS GOOD AS THOSE GUYS TAKEN IN THE TOP 36. YOU'LL RUE THE DAY!

Meanwhile, even the drug addict is taken ahead of Stanzi...

Using NFL.com probably isn't in your best interests, considering they gave Stanzi and the incomparable Tyrod Taylor nearly identical grades.

Here's the first line from the NFL.com scouting report:

Stanzi possesses the mental makeup and on-field moxy of a starting NFL quarterback but still has quite a bit of development left before he's ready.

[Chiefnj2]

LMAO

HEY NFL! YOU ALL ****ED UP! STANZI'S AS GOOD AS THOSE GUYS TAKEN IN THE TOP 36. YOU'LL RUE THE DAY!

Meanwhile, even the drug addict is taken ahead of Stanzi...

Using NFL.com probably isn't in your best interests, considering they gave Stanzi and the incomparable Tyrod Taylor nearly identical grades.

Here's the first line from the NFL.com scouting report:

Gm's never make mistakes with QBs. They always take the right guy first. It's not possible Dalton could be better than Locker, Ponder or Gabbert. You should send Lewis an email telling him to pull Andy.

And, according to you he's a lowly 5th rounder who will be lucky to be a backup. So what's the big deal playing him (ahead of the undrafted guy)? Do you really care if they ruin a career backup?

[Rasputin]

And as a 5th round pick, that isn't to throw him out there unprepared against the Steelers, Bears, Jets, Packers, etc.

Fwiw, if Stanzi could just survive the best the NFL has to offer this year. He could be something special in the long run.

Chiefs & Chiefs fans don't have the balls to play a rookie QB. Simple as that. He didn't make the schedule up. You play who is next on it and move on.

We won't find out any thing about him if he don't play. We can find out however that yet another journeyman QB won't get us a playoff win. Joe Freaking Montana was the last reject QB to get us a playoff win & we have gone with reject QBs time and time again since. One QB in 25 years has Chiefs drafted has started and it was two years after he was drafted before he got the shot. Then the Chiefs revert to the old Carl Peterson love of rehash QBs. Fucking BULL SHIT we don't go out of our way to develop a QB prospect that WE drafted to get on the field.

[InChiefsHeaven]

As am I, but unfortunately that has nothing to do with what is prudent for this organization to do concerning Stanzi.

Oh, I agree. I was just answering the question as to why we want to watch Stanzi.

Personally, I think they are keeping him out for a reason which is good enough for me.

[Rasputin]

Fellas if we want even a chance in this game orton needs to start.

A chance for what? Living the dream of 8 & 8 seasons or getting our asses kicked in the playoffs?

Orton brings nothing to the table for us to compete for championships. Fuck

[patteeu]

One thign i dont get is after 20 years of being a Chiefs fan, the Chiefs organization is always so ****ing stubborn to make a change or do something big.

Shit just boggles my mind. Its like they want to suck on purpose.

Wasn't it big to go into a season with drafted QBotF, Brodie Croyle, as the starter a few years ago instead of taking the safe route of signing a journeyman?

[Chiefnj2]

Wasn't it big to go into a season with drafted QBotF, Brodie Croyle, as the starter a few years ago instead of taking the safe route of signing a journeyman?

Herm has bigger balls than Haley.

Also, Haley (the supposed offensive guru) is on pace to score less points than Herm did in his 2nd year. Pathetic.

[TheGuardian]

No, Herm was dumb.

Haley isn't starting Stanzi because he isn't ready. Just like Aaron Rodgers wasn't ready his first few years either, and admitted as much.

Again, there isn't anything wrong with Stanzi sitting and learning for a while.

[Chiefnj2]

No, Herm was dumb.

Haley isn't starting Stanzi because he isn't ready. Just like Aaron Rodgers wasn't ready his first few years either, and admitted as much.

Again, there isn't anything wrong with Stanzi sitting and learning for a while.

Was Tyler Palko in front of Aaron Rodgers?

[Carlota69]

At this point there isnt any reason Stanzi shouldnt be playing...

the season is a total loss with all the injuries. Playing Orton does more damage to the franchise long term than any short term success.

Playing Orton could potentially set this franchise back another 4-6 years...

That is how devastating his waiver wire pickup actually was...

Dramatic much??? This post literally made me laugh out loud.

The sky is falling...we're doomed...the sky is falling...we're doomed...the sky is falling...we're doomed....etc..etc...
:spock:

[TheGuardian]

Was Tyler Palko in front of Aaron Rodgers?

Was Stanzi taken in the first round?

See I can play this game too.

[dirk digler]

Dramatic much??? This post literally made me laugh out loud.

The sky is falling...we're doomed...the sky is falling...we're doomed...the sky is falling...we're doomed....etc..etc...
:spock:

It's possible considering if Orton comes in and wins a couple of games that will knock the Chiefs down into the middle of the first round and no chance to draft a franchise QB.

[dirk digler]

Why were those non-major conference, non-pro system guys all taken 100+ picks ahead of Stanzi?

I guess this is where you tell me Mel Kiper was right and 32 NFL Executives were wrong.

So are you saying now that you trust Haley\Pioli's judgement? ;)

[OnTheWarpath15]

So are you saying now that you trust Haley\Pioli's judgement? ;)

I don't need to trust them, I can trust the other 31 teams that passed on Stanzi for 4 rounds - or took another QB higher.

[Chiefnj2]

Was Stanzi taken in the first round?

See I can play this game too.

What are you saving Stanzi for?

[dirk digler]

I don't need to trust them, I can trust the other 31 teams that passed on Stanzi for 4 rounds - or took another QB higher.

I don't think that is probably a good standard to use. It is not like teams or the entire league haven't passed on people that became great players. Not saying Stanzi is one so don't think I am saying that he is.

[The Franchise]

I'm going to hold out hope for one last perfect scenario and then I'm done. And yeah....I realize that I'm probably going to end up disappointed.

1. Orton plays out the rest of the season. Receives a 2 year contract.
2. Cassel is cut in the offseason.
3. Chiefs draft a QB in the 1st round....either by trading up or one falls to us.
4. Orton and rookie battle it out in TC. If Orton wins......he gets one more year. Rookie starts in year 2.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think that is probably a good standard to use. It is not like teams or the entire league haven't passed on people that became great players. Not saying Stanzi is one so don't think I am saying that he is.

How many of those QB that were passed on who eventually became great played as a rookie?

Answer: None of them.

[RealSNR]

Of course they did. :facepalm:Uhh.. yeah. I did.

LJ was slower than poop and couldn't find a hole to save his life. I was calling for him to be benched after Game 4. Check the archive if you don't believe me. Other posters also believed Charles was far better than Johnson.

[KCDC]

Stanzi: barring a conspiracy, he isn't playing because he's not ready. Even if he is sort of ready, there is a valid reason to sit him. If they put him out there against a good team and he does poorly, the fan base will dismiss him (like Croyle) and he will lose his biggest positive (attitude). Sadly, we will have to trust Haley and Zorn on this.

Palko: Like Stanzi, his biggest asset was his swagger. After two games of looking like a bad high school QB, his swagger has to be suffering. What he has going for him is that Haley likes him *a lot*. He sees himself and Warner. He treats Palko with kid gloves. He does not yell at him like he does with most everyone else. Though Palko has shown no talent in his journeyman career (or in pre-season), Haley has stuck with him as if Tyler is just one good game away from being the next Kurt Warner. Some players need yelling and some need coddling. Haley has decided to coddle Palko. I fear that this approach is causing Haley to blind himself to the truth that Palko does not belong in the NFL. It was much the same with Croyle strong arm. Everyone fell in love with that and became blind to the fact that Croyle didn't have the intangibles (or sturdy body) to succeed in the NFL.

Orton: Mediocre QB, but possibly better than Cassel for the reasons stated above. He will provide the best chance to win the remaining games, but at what cost?

Mellinger thinks it costs us to not play Orton. It is true that our WRs would benefit greatly from a QB that could throw them the ball on the run and allow them to make the highlight reel. It would also take some pressure off our anemic running game.

But, what is the cost if we play him? If Stanzi is ready and the coaches are willing to test him, then Orton playing could take away a valuable opportunity.

It could also be a poor business decision in a way. This is the stuff that Pioli and Hunt would consider. Pioli could plan to just let Orton walk as a free agent. Presumably someone picks him up and we get something like a 5th round compensation pick in next year's draft. Not bad for $2.5 million. The other business consideration is that Orton's market value is low right now. His 2011 stats are not good, he was waived, and next spring other teams will be thinking of drafting young QBs. As such, if Orton does not play much for us, Pioli ought to be able to sign him to some one or two year deal for a good price. Palko would be cut and Pioli has Cassel/Orton/Stanzi competing next spring (along with a QB that they draft next year).

What if we play Orton and he does well? Could that cost us in the sense that Pioli is convinced that we need not draft a QB in the early rounds? This would mean that our Chiefs are stuck with another few years of mediocrity at the QB position. Granted we've gone to the playoffs at times with mediocre QBs, but rarely is that a good plan for Super Bowl aspirations. We have a host of good young talent at other positions. Would another few years of mediocre QBs blow a golden opportunity to draft someone who has a chance at being a great QB? Only if Pioli drafts a QB in the first round and selects the right one. Is that going to happen? Unlikely. Is it likely to happen if Orton plays well? Even less likely.

[TheGuardian]

What are you saving Stanzi for?

Because he's not ready?

I wouldn't expect him to be. He was passed over that much in the draft for a reason.

[Brock]

At this point there isnt any reason Stanzi shouldnt be playing...


Of course there is. You have a coach who's literally scrambling to save his job. He isn't going to throw the rookie out there. With Orton at least he has a chance.

[Okie_Apparition]

Tribal is an evil bastard :)

Also from last night

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/28/3291448/orton-will-get-some-first-team.html

...
Haley said he was never tempted to use Stanzi, the only other available quarterback, against the Steelers.

“I have no doubt or second thoughts (that Palko) gave us the best chance to win, and a rookie going in against that defense and some of the looks we were seeing and some of the aspects we were going to have to handle were going to be a difficult task,” Haley said.

Stanzi could be inactive Sunday in Chicago. He may play in the season’s final five games only if Orton and Palko are injured.

“He’s a bright kid we’re all excited about,” Haley said of Stanzi, a fifth-round draft pick who has yet to play in a regular-season game. “He’s one of those guys you’re happy is on your team from a standpoint of attitude and charisma and natural leadership skills and his ability to try to outwork everybody.

“We’ve got to make sure we continue to develop him and that he’s ready to go.”

[htismaqe]

Haley likes Palko. Haley is gentle on Palko. He doesn't snap at him like he did Croyle. He talks about Palko's development.

See, Palko is a coaches kid. And, Palko, I am sure, does a great job on the chalkboard. And, he has confidence. He can do everything except throw the ball.

Man, I just had an epiphany.

Haley likes Palko because he sees alot of HIMSELF in Palko.

I hope they fire him immediately after we lose to Chicago.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm going to hold out hope for one last perfect scenario and then I'm done. And yeah....I realize that I'm probably going to end up disappointed.

1. Orton plays out the rest of the season. Receives a 2 year contract.
2. Cassel is cut in the offseason.
3. Chiefs draft a QB in the 1st round....either by trading up or one falls to us.
4. Orton and rookie battle it out in TC. If Orton wins......he gets one more year. Rookie starts in year 2.

This is the most likely scenario for long-term success in our current situation.

Otherwise we have to hope Orton is the next Rich Gannon.

[Hammock Parties]

Man, I just had an epiphany.

Haley likes Palko because he sees alot of HIMSELF in Palko.

I hope they fire him immediately after we lose to Chicago.

Haley likes Palko because he's Haley's choice.

He didn't inherit him (Croyle), he wasn't forced on him (Cassel), etc.

I won't be at all surprised if Palko starts in Chicago.

[O.city]

Tribal is an evil bastard :)

Also from last night

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/28/3291448/orton-will-get-some-first-team.html

...
Haley said he was never tempted to use Stanzi, the only other available quarterback, against the Steelers.

“I have no doubt or second thoughts (that Palko) gave us the best chance to win, and a rookie going in against that defense and some of the looks we were seeing and some of the aspects we were going to have to handle were going to be a difficult task,” Haley said.

Stanzi could be inactive Sunday in Chicago. He may play in the season’s final five games only if Orton and Palko are injured.

“He’s a bright kid we’re all excited about,” Haley said of Stanzi, a fifth-round draft pick who has yet to play in a regular-season game. “He’s one of those guys you’re happy is on your team from a standpoint of attitude and charisma and natural leadership skills and his ability to try to outwork everybody.

“We’ve got to make sure we continue to develop him and that he’s ready to go.”

I realize they drafted Stanzi and want to develop him and he very well might develop into something good. But the NFL is a win now sport. How many coaches have lost jobs because they are waiting for a guy to develop?

The reason the A. Rodgers systematic approach worked so well was that the fans didn't have to sit thru losing season after losing season while a guy learns the ropes. They had a successful guy in front of him which is something we don't have.

Like I said the NFL is win now. It's why you draft a qb who can come in a play as soon as possible and not wait to draft a developmental guy in the 5th round. Something Chief fans have seen to many times.

[O.city]

This is the most likely scenario for long-term success in our current situation.

Otherwise we have to hope Orton is the next Rich Gannon.

Any chance this is the direction they are going?


Until it happens I will have my doubts.

[Hammock Parties]

Palko would be cut and Pioli has Cassel/Orton/Stanzi competing next spring (along with a QB that they draft next year).


I don't think Cassel and Orton are going to coexist.

[Okie_Apparition]

Palko & Cassel are keystone kops
Palko is atleast an episode we haven't seen
Even if the ending is the same

[htismaqe]

I won't be at all surprised if Palko starts in Chicago.

Palko will start, bank on it.

I realize they drafted Stanzi and want to develop him and he very well might develop into something good. But the NFL is a win now sport. How many coaches have lost jobs because they are waiting for a guy to develop?

The reason the A. Rodgers systematic approach worked so well was that the fans didn't have to sit thru losing season after losing season while a guy learns the ropes. They had a successful guy in front of him which is something we don't have.

Like I said the NFL is win now. It's why you draft a qb who can come in a play as soon as possible and not wait to draft a developmental guy in the 5th round. Something Chief fans have seen to many times.

Grandpa Dick always said that nobody wants to draft a QB because you won't be around to coach him...

[The Franchise]

I don't see Orton and Cassel on the same team next year.

[vailpass]

Palko is going to get one more game because Orton doesn't know the offense and hasn't had even a week of practice yet. Then Orton will mop up the season.

If what I saw against Pitt was Palko knowing your offense it might be a damn good idea to play someone who doesn't know it.

[O.city]

Palko will start, bank on it.



Grandpa Dick always said that nobody wants to draft a QB because you won't be around to coach him...

This is true.


On the qb issue, at this point I don't see any other option. All Pioli has talked about is building thru the draft. Until he builds the most important position on the team, he's lying.

[Chiefnj2]

Palko will start, bank on it.



Grandpa Dick always said that nobody wants to draft a QB because you won't be around to coach him...

Vegas agrees with you. They have Chicago as an 8 point favorite. Imagine if Cutler was healthy.

[Hammock Parties]

Palko will start, bank on it.


Heh, you think so?

If Haley knows he's getting fired he might as well start Palko and give HIS guy some more PT.

[Rasputin]

I realize they drafted Stanzi and want to develop him and he very well might develop into something good. But the NFL is a win now sport. How many coaches have lost jobs because they are waiting for a guy to develop?

The reason the A. Rodgers systematic approach worked so well was that the fans didn't have to sit thru losing season after losing season while a guy learns the ropes. They had a successful guy in front of him which is something we don't have.

Like I said the NFL is win now. It's why you draft a qb who can come in a play as soon as possible and not wait to draft a developmental guy in the 5th round. Something Chief fans have seen to many times.

One draft pick QB in 25 years developmental guy. One, we have seen play and that was two years of holding a clip bord behind Damon Huard 11year career back up/ starting QB for Chiefs.

We really have had sooo many developmental QBs from the draft :rolleyes:

[O.city]

No, we have just brought in other teams 4 and 5 round pick developmental qb's.

[Micjones]

No' ga' do it, wouldn't be prudent. If Stanzi is truly so unprepared and lacking in talent that he is worse than Palko, he has no future to be protected.

Not sure why "unprepared" is synonymous with "less talented" in your mind.
Again, he missed all of Spring football activity and has been inactive for most of the year. Why would anyone expect him to be ready to suddenly start taking snaps with the 1's and playing against teams likely headed for the post-season?

[Okie_Apparition]

The CHiefs had a 4th rounder QB
but he won the power ball

[whoman69]

Not sure why "unprepared" is synonymous with "less talented" in your mind.
Again, he missed all of Spring football activity and has been inactive for most of the year. Why would anyone expect him to be ready to suddenly start taking snaps with the 1's and playing against teams likely headed for the post-season?

Cam Newton get any of those things, Dalton?

Haley made a promise that the most talented people would be playing on Sunday. If Stanzi is less talented than Palko he must be horrible. I think the coaches have a built in excuse. This organization once again runs away from developing a QB. He'd have to be an idiot not to know the plays after 3 months. Orton is supposed to know them in a week and a half. We threw someone out there last week we knew was not the answer. I don't know if Stanzi is the answer, but with all these excuses we won't know now. We'll never know. At this point the organization faces another year with Cassel (unacceptable) or another mediocre QB like Orton. The only responsible thing to do is draft a QB in the first round this year. Stanzi never gets his shot then. He's just another Pat White project in a year in which we had nothing to lose.

[FAX]

Cam Newton get any of those things, Dalton?

Haley made a promise that the most talented people would be playing on Sunday. If Stanzi is less talented than Palko he must be horrible. I think the coaches have a built in excuse. This organization once again runs away from developing a QB. He'd have to be an idiot not to know the plays after 3 months. Orton is supposed to know them in a week and a half. We threw someone out there last week we knew was not the answer. I don't know if Stanzi is the answer, but with all these excuses we won't know now. We'll never know. At this point the organization faces another year with Cassel (unacceptable) or another mediocre QB like Orton. The only responsible thing to do is draft a QB in the first round this year. Stanzi never gets his shot then. He's just another Pat White project in a year in which we had nothing to lose.

That part ... the blacker than the other black part (no race-o) ... is patently false, Mr. whoman69. No offense intended.

Haley has never, to my knowledge, said such a thing. He has repeatedly stated the following, "The player who gives us the best chance to win will start." ... that's what he has said.

Now, that might be interpreted as talent, or preparation, or readiness, or ability to contribute to the determined game plan, or a lot of things. In Stanzi's case, I would surmise that he is not yet ready to be thrown to the wolves in terms of practice time and experience with the first team ... and, most importantly, against the kind of defenses we're facing.

FAX

[whoman69]

That part ... the blacker than the other black part (no race-o) ... is patently false, Mr. whoman69. No offense intended.

Haley has never, to my knowledge, said such a thing. He has repeatedly stated the following, "The player who gives us the best chance to win will start." ... that's what he has said.

Now, that might be interpreted as talent, or preparation, or readiness, or ability to contribute to the determined game plan, or a lot of things. In Stanzi's case, I would surmise that he is not yet ready to be thrown to the wolves in terms of practice time and experience with the first team ... and, most importantly, against the kind of defenses we're facing.

FAX

Is there possibly anyone out there that gives us less chance to win than Tyler Palko? Is it possible to have less than 0 chance? Was he suddenly going to turn it around after the first three picks? No TDs in 40+ possessions. Its all excuses. We had a chance to see if we had something for the future. No chance now.

[FAX]

Is there possibly anyone out there that gives us less chance to win than Tyler Palko? Is it possible to have less than 0 chance? Was he suddenly going to turn it around after the first three picks? No TDs in 40+ possessions. Its all excuses. We had a chance to see if we had something for the future. No chance now.

See, that's the problem.

The argument could be made that Palkoh-no probably gives us a "better chance to win" than Cassel. That doesn't mean we're going to win. Far from it.

I think we've proven that we have suck behind suck in the quarterback depth chart. Until, perhaps, we get to Stanzi. However, it's impossible for us to know where Stanzi is in his development. And, even if you don't like Haley, Zorn has input into this deal and there has to be a reason (or many) that Stanzi is still waiting in the wings.

Personally, I think Stanzi (like any rookie quarterback) is going to take time to properly prepare for the NFL level of play and competition. It doesn't bother me that he hasn't gotten the nod. What does bother me is that our numbers 1 and 2 suck ass.

Of course, now we have Orton which changes things a bit. His acquisition actually gives me hope, in that it may well mean the beginning of the end of Cassel and his incompetence under center.

I counsel patience, Mr. whoman69.

FAX

[Micjones]

Cam Newton get any of those things, Dalton?

Cam Newton and Andy Dalton were BOTH drafted at least three rounds higher. The two of them were infinitely more NFL-ready than Ricky Stanzi. Completely different situations.

Not to mention the fact that they've been able to prepare with the 1's throughout the year. Stanzi hasn't even been active.

Explain for me why "not yet ready for NFL action" is synonymous with "less talented than Palko"?

[FAX]

People are just suffering from a combination of a need for hope and desperation fatigue.

It's no fun being the laughing stock of the league again. Especially when we're demonstrating such extreme incompetence on that national television system thing.

At least, were we to start an unprepared, unready, unproven, 6th rounder quarterback, we'd have a better excuse for stinking up the joint.

FAX

[jd1020]

Cam Newton and Andy Dalton were BOTH drafted at least three rounds higher. The two of them were infinitely more NFL-ready than Ricky Stanzi. Completely different situations.

Not to mention the fact that they've been able to prepare with the 1's throughout the year. Stanzi hasn't even been active.

Explain for me why "not yet ready for NFL action" is synonymous with "less talented than Palko"?

Dalton played in a spread. Stanzi played in a pro style offense. Both Dalton and Stanzi were grouped in the 2nd tier QB's that could have went in rounds 2-??.

How does Dalton become more "pro-ready" than a QB who played a pro style offense?

Maybe Dalton is better, maybe he's not. I do know that if the Bengals D wasn't as good as they were Dalton wouldnt be getting so much love.

[Micjones]

People are just suffering from a combination of a need for hope and desperation fatigue.

It's no fun being the laughing stock of the league again. Especially when we're demonstrating such extreme incompetence on that national television system thing.

At least, were we to start an unprepared, unready, unproven, 6th rounder quarterback, we'd have a better excuse for stinking up the joint.

FAX

I try never to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I watched that same team play it's ass off defensively. Without Berry.
We have a defense with quite a few young, ascending players.

We also have some super-talented skill position players on the offensive side of the ball.

Our biggest holes are at QB, RT, LG and OC.
We've got a core.

[Chiefnj2]

TJ Yates can come in completely unprepared, lead his team to a FG on his first NFL drive ever, and then NOT throw 3 INTs and lose the game for the Texans. But KC can't prepare Stanzi for a half of football? Bad coaching.

[FAX]

I try never to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I watched that same team play it's ass off defensively. Without Berry.
We have a defense with quite a few young, ascending players.

We also have some super-talented skill position players on the offensive side of the ball.

Our biggest holes are at QB, RT, LG and OC.
We've got a core.

I completely agree.

Actually, I made a really insightful and brilliant post just a little while ago on the subject of the defense.

Throughout the year, we've shown flashes of excellence on D. And, overall, we've improved steadily all season long ... without Berry and with a few other significant injuries along the way. Very encouraging.

The offense, on the other hand, started as a joke and has gotten worse as the year progressed. That is the most troubling part of this whole deal, to me.

You can't make chicken soup out of tortoise turds, however, it seems as though you ought to be able to muster a touchdown every ... oh, I don't know ... every 5 or 6 games, or so.

The only good part about the offense that I can see is that we've added some really solid players at wide receiver ... weapons a good quarterback could exploit and well.

If Charles comes back at 90% and Moeaki does the same, we have a chance to be pretty good ... assuming we can find (or have) a quarterback who possesses half a brain and a complete arm.

FAX

[RealSNR]

TJ Yates can come in completely unprepared, lead his team to a FG on his first NFL drive ever, and then NOT throw 3 INTs and lose the game for the Texans. But KC can't prepare Stanzi for a half of football? Bad coaching.

The Texans didn't want TJ Yates out there /non-sequitor use by Stanzi haters that doesn't explain anything

[Micjones]

Dalton played in a spread. Stanzi played in a pro style offense. Both Dalton and Stanzi were grouped in the 2nd tier QB's that could have went in rounds 2-??.

How does Dalton become more "pro-ready" than a QB who played a pro style offense?

To start, he played one more full year of college football.

I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I can recall there being concerns about Stanzi's accuracy, footwork and pocket awareness.
Concerns that largely didn't apply to Dalton.

There's more to being an NFL-ready QB than having played under Center.

[whoman69]

See, that's the problem.

The argument could be made that Palkoh-no probably gives us a "better chance to win" than Cassel. That doesn't mean we're going to win. Far from it.

I think we've proven that we have suck behind suck in the quarterback depth chart. Until, perhaps, we get to Stanzi. However, it's impossible for us to know where Stanzi is in his development. And, even if you don't like Haley, Zorn has input into this deal and there has to be a reason (or many) that Stanzi is still waiting in the wings.

Personally, I think Stanzi (like any rookie quarterback) is going to take time to properly prepare for the NFL level of play and competition. It doesn't bother me that he hasn't gotten the nod. What does bother me is that our numbers 1 and 2 suck ass.

Of course, now we have Orton which changes things a bit. His acquisition actually gives me hope, in that it may well mean the beginning of the end of Cassel and his incompetence under center.

I counsel patience, Mr. whoman69.

FAX

I've been waiting since 1970. How much more patience than 41 years do I need.

[Carlota69]

I've been waiting since 1970. How much more patience than 41 years do I need.

END OF THREAD
(no matter what side of the debate you are on)

[Micjones]

I completely agree.

Actually, I made a really insightful and brilliant post just a little while ago on the subject of the defense.

Throughout the year, we've shown flashes of excellence on D. And, overall, we've improved steadily all season long ... without Berry and with a few other significant injuries along the way. Very encouraging.

The offense, on the other hand, started as a joke and has gotten worse as the year progressed. That is the most troubling part of this whole deal, to me.

You can't make chicken soup out of tortoise turds, however, it seems as though you ought to be able to muster a touchdown every ... oh, I don't know ... every 5 or 6 games, or so.

The only good part about the offense that I can see is that we've added some really solid players at wide receiver ... weapons a good quarterback could exploit and well.

If Charles comes back at 90% and Moeaki does the same, we have a chance to be pretty good ... assuming we can find (or have) a quarterback who possesses half a brain and a complete arm.

FAX

The entire offensive operation is problematic.
Cassel, the playcalling system, the way certain RB's have been used.
All of that plays into the offensive ineptitude.

Though I think with Charles and a competent QB...this is a completely different unit.

[whoman69]

Mr FAX and Mr Micjones, I think we are all just fans who are angry about the direction of this team. They have a QB that is 100% certain to fail on the field right now. If Pioli has an ounce of common sense in his head, with the talent of the team right now Stanzi will have no chance to play in his career. Pioli can't be stupid enough to lack a backup QB on the team with no playing experience going forward. A third grader can recognize this team needs to draft a QB first round next year. So you have a rookie QB and Stanzi with no experience. That means Orton or Cassel need to stay. That puts Stanzi 3rd string again and last on the totem pole for advancement. If I'm Stanzi I want this opportunity because its the only one he will get. The Chiefs once again relegate a young QB to be an afterthought.

What happens then if new young QB is a bust? Do we wait another 20 years before giving another rookie a chance? Steve Fuller holds our rookie record for most TDs thrown. That record is 6. This is a franchise that has never even tried to develop a QB and I'm tired of it.

Scott Pioli left $30 mill on the cap and so many obvious holes in his roster. This was done by his own admission with no money limit set by the owner. This whole mess is on Pioli IMO.

[whoman69]

Forgot to add, if the new young QB bust, we have Stanzi with no experience and probably out of the league by that point and starting from square one.

[FAX]

I don't disagree with any of that, Mr. whoman69.

And, you're right. The problem we have is a brief window in which our best players are at their peak. Wasting the progress that this defense has made would be unforgivable, in my view.

The QB situation is an absolute mess and a reasonable person has to put that on Pioli.

FAX

[stonedstooge]

Mr FAX and Mr Micjones, I think we are all just fans who are angry about the direction of this team. They have a QB that is 100% certain to fail on the field right now. If Pioli has an ounce of common sense in his head, with the talent of the team right now Stanzi will have no chance to play in his career. Pioli can't be stupid enough to lack a backup QB on the team with no playing experience going forward. A third grader can recognize this team needs to draft a QB first round next year. So you have a rookie QB and Stanzi with no experience. That means Orton or Cassel need to stay. That puts Stanzi 3rd string again and last on the totem pole for advancement. If I'm Stanzi I want this opportunity because its the only one he will get. The Chiefs once again relegate a young QB to be an afterthought.

What happens then if new young QB is a bust? Do we wait another 20 years before giving another rookie a chance? Steve Fuller holds our rookie record for most TDs thrown. That record is 6. This is a franchise that has never even tried to develop a QB and I'm tired of it.

Scott Pioli left $30 mill on the cap and so many obvious holes in his roster. This was done by his own admission with no money limit set by the owner. This whole mess is on Pioli IMO.

Clark Hunt approves of Piolis cap space and nominates him for executive of the year

[Micjones]

Mr FAX and Mr Micjones, I think we are all just fans who are angry about the direction of this team.

I'll have to disagree with you there.
My major problem is with this organization's failure to identify the right QB.
I can see that this team is vastly improved in its overall talent level.
We're certainly not there yet, but there's cause for some excitement with this roster. This defense is on the cusp. If Houston can become what they think he can be...you may well have an elite defense.

Pioli can't be stupid enough to lack a backup QB on the team with no playing experience going forward.

No argument there.

What happens then if new young QB is a bust?

That's a reality EVERY team faces.
One thing at a time. First let's draft a QB (Luck, Griffin or Barkley).
I'm comfortable with Jim Zorn bringing him along.
Thing is, there are no guarantees in the NFL. So it's a gamble no matter how we play this hand. We can increase our odds by taking one of the 3 best QB's available come April though.

Scott Pioli left $30 mill on the cap and so many obvious holes in his roster. This was done by his own admission with no money limit set by the owner. This whole mess is on Pioli IMO.

He also locked up Hali and Flowers.
Carr and Bowe are next in line.

This organization deserves PLENTY of criticism, but again (and I stand by this)...they also deserve some credit.

[whoman69]

I'll have to disagree with you there.
My major problem is with this organization's failure to identify the right QB.
I can see that this team is vastly improved in its overall talent level.
We're certainly not there yet, but there's cause for some excitement with this roster. This defense is on the cusp. If Houston can become what they think he can be...you may well have an elite defense.

That's a reality EVERY team faces.
One thing at a time. First let's draft a QB (Luck, Griffin or Barkley).
I'm comfortable with Jim Zorn bringing him along.
Thing is, there are no guarantees in the NFL. So it's a gamble no matter how we play this hand. We can increase our odds by taking one of the 3 best QB's available come April though.

He also locked up Hali and Flowers.
Carr and Bowe are next in line.

This organization deserves PLENTY of criticism, but again (and I stand by this)...they also deserve some credit.

I don't really think we're really disagreeing. I can see this team has talent, probably more talent than we've had since 2003. That said, Pioli left a lot of holes in the roster which kill our ability to compete. We will have a small window with this young unit.

My point with regard to drafting a bust at QB next year, I realize its a chance which is why its important to get some PT for Stanzi this year. Otherwise his career is essentially over here buried at third string.