Why I Don't Support Haley

[petegz28]

We must have the counter-thread....

1. I did support Haley. I started questioning him in pre-season and even tried to defend him to a point. He failed me. :harumph:

2. His game managment sucked asshole. Not going for it on 4th and inches on the opponents 40 but turning right around and kicking an on-side kick? WTF? :hmmm:

3. Team was never prepared to play. This team looked lost and soft all season long from training camp on. How does a head coach on a division winner allow this to ever happen? :eek:

4. The Chiefs have lost by 27 or more points a total of 30 times, I believe. 9 of those under Haley. That means over the life of the Chiefs 1/3 of those losses came in a 2 1/2 year span under the same coach. Just sad. :huh:

5. Terrible personel relations. 3 OC's in as many years. Obviously the guy is hard to get along with. :cuss:

6. Insisted on Palko as the backup. I know some of this falls on Pioli but Palki was Haley's man. Even after making some of the prettiest passes to the other team Haley refused to pull Palko. :banghead:

7. Dexter McCluster. Yes, I out this squarely on Haley. We could have had Cody but instead we got Mighty Mouse 2.0. :#

8. Jarred Gaither. Are you seriously telling me this guy isn't better than Richardson??? ;)

9. Powe never sees the field. Nuff said. :)

10. In our RB depleted position McClain continues to hardly ever play. Just dumb. :cuss:

[OnTheWarpath15]

19-27 is the only reason any of us need.

The rest is just piling on.

[DeezNutz]

The amount of tears shed for a piss-poor coach is amusing to say the least.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The amount of tears shed for a piss-poor coach is amusing to say the least.

4-8-28

Never Forget.

[Hammock Parties]

Pete, good thread.

[Brock]

I wanted to like the guy, I did like the guy in some ways. But a lot of times, he wasn't any better a gameday coach than the guy he replaced.

[DeezNutz]

4-8-28

Never Forget.

The fact that it was unconventional is why it's brilliant. /'zilla

[Hammock Parties]

The amount of tears shed for a piss-poor coach is amusing to say the least.

This is the funniest thing I've seen all day:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pl0A4UFBhUs?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[chiefzilla1501]

We must have the counter-thread....

1. I did support Haley. I started questioning him in pre-season and even tried to defend him to a point. He failed me. :harumph:

2. His game managment sucked asshole. Not going for it on 4th and inches on the opponents 40 but turning right around and kicking an on-side kick? WTF? :hmmm:

3. Team was never prepared to play. This team looked lost and soft all season long from training camp on. How does a head coach on a division winner allow this to ever happen? :eek:

4. The Chiefs have lost by 27 or more points a total of 30 times, I believe. 9 of those under Haley. That means over the life of the Chiefs 1/3 of those losses came in a 2 1/1 year span under the same coach. Just sad. :huh:

5. Terrible personel relations. 3 OC's in as many years. Obviously the guy is hard to get along with. :cuss:

6. Insisted on Palko as the backup. I know some of this falls on Pioli but Palki was Haley's man. Even after making some of the prettiest passes to the other team Haley refused to pull Palko. :banghead:

7. Dexter McCluster. Yes, I out this squarely on Haley. We could have had Cody but instead we got Mighty Mouse 2.0. :#

8. Jarred Gaither. Are you seriously telling me this guy isn't better than Richardson??? ;)

9. Powe never sees the field. Nuff said. :)

10. In our RB depleted position McClain continues to hardly ever play. Just dumb. :cuss:

1. Dumb mistake. But a mistake made by trying something new.
2. Meh. It seems he was a ton more risky when his team was grossly outmatched in talent. An onside kick to give a bad offense field position is a calculated risk. A 4th and 2 when you can't even gain 1 yard isn't.
3. Disagree. After the first two games, they were high-effort until Palko came in (Miami is debatable... I just think they were outplayed, not outhustled). Even then, they played their ass off 3 out of 4 of those games.
4. I still question if this would be the case with a good QB
5. Or maybe the wrong coaches were forced on him
6. Again, was this because he thought he was better? Or was this just a fuck you from a man who knew he was done
7. No idea whose choice this was
8. Gaither can't stay healthy. And he was a quitter in Baltimore. I'm not going to cry that he's gone. I don't care how well he's playing.
9. Maybe Romeo ate him
10. I don't know how to feel about that. I don't think he's an answer. I think he's just a diversion for a power back.

[htismaqe]

I wanted to like the guy, I did like the guy in some ways. But a lot of times, he wasn't any better a gameday coach than the guy he replaced.

This.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I'll miss the way he called me a "MOTHER FUCKING DUMBSHIT NO TALENT ASSHOLE" before he tucked me in at night. I always knew he was just trying to make me better.

[lewdog]

That tribute video is sooooo great LMAOLMAOLMAO

[GordonGekko]

I never really liked Haley, ever. The only impressive thing he did was improving Bowe. But it was very evident in the home playoff loss to Baltimore that a team with his name on it was never going to be capable of shit.

[Rooster]

I wanted to like the guy, I did like the guy in some ways. But a lot of times, he wasn't any better a gameday coach than the guy he replaced.

Me too. The multiple blow outs and the inabilty to be a winner within the AFCW was the worst.

[Bump]

ya, Haley had to go for Palko alone, a terrible record and PPG weren't enough.

[petegz28]

1. Dumb mistake. But a mistake made by trying something new.
2. Meh. It seems he was a ton more risky when his team was grossly outmatched in talent. An onside kick to give a bad offense field position is a calculated risk. A 4th and 2 when you can't even gain 1 yard isn't.
3. Disagree. After the first two games, they were high-effort until Palko came in (Miami is debatable... I just think they were outplayed, not outhustled). Even then, they played their ass off 3 out of 4 of those games.
4. I still question if this would be the case with a good QB
5. Or maybe the wrong coaches were forced on him
6. Again, was this because he thought he was better? Or was this just a **** you from a man who knew he was done
7. No idea whose choice this was
8. Gaither can't stay healthy. And he was a quitter in Baltimore. I'm not going to cry that he's gone. I don't care how well he's playing.
9. Maybe Romeo ate him
10. I don't know how to feel about that. I don't think he's an answer. I think he's just a diversion for a power back.

Dude, he wasn't a very good coach. I wanted him to be. I actually liked his fire and attitude for the most part but he didn't know where to draw the line. Too much unprofessionalism across the board from the team being outplayed and outcoached to losing his temper at anyone and everyone.

Face the facts, the only time he had any success was while Weis was here. Other than that he has been the coach of a piss-poor team. It didn't even take Weis leaving, it just took the announcment of it.

Every other team in this league plays with injuries and went through the same pre-season BS we had too and yet the majority of those teams would kick our ass up and down the field. In fact, some of the shittiest teams in the league have kicked our ass up and down our own field. the Miami game was when I lost it with him. Our house, playing for sole possesion of first place and you get your ass planted by a winless team?

[chiefzilla1501]

I never really liked Haley, ever. The only impressive thing he did was improving Bowe. But it was very evident in the home playoff loss to Baltimore that a team with his name on it was never going to be capable of shit.

Um... no.

[KcMizzou]

I never really liked Haley, ever. The only impressive thing he did was improving Bowe. But it was very evident in the home playoff loss to Baltimore that a team with his name on it was never going to be capable of shit.How 'bout DJ? Did Haley have a hand in his transformation, or was that Crennel?

[DuhChiefs]

Consiperacy or am I actually right?
-Pioli is more of an zipped up, spiffy, fancy, dress up, formal kind of person. All about the image. Am I right?
So last year Todd Haley was clean shaved and looked clean for the most part. BUT!!!!
This year he started growing out his facial hair, wore "beaten up", old looking caps and attire. (Looked scruffy to say the least)
CONCLUSION:
Haley wasn't getting along with Pioli, thus he started to become a rebel.
WHY I THINK THIS:
-Haley refused to start or even play Stanzi. Pioli wanted to draft Stanzi because he likes Stanzi. Haley still stuck with Palko even through all the mess.
To go along with that... Post game interview, Haley says something along the lines of "I didn't want to stick Stanzi in there because I was afraid he was going to get hurt" then saying, "We talked about putting him in but it was just too late in the game and didn't want to risk injury."
WTF-- The Steelers game he was asked by a reporter this: "What if Tyler Palko got hurt?"
Haley: "We didn't want Palko to get hurt" -Pretty much saying he didn't want to go with Stanzi.
Anyone follow my conspiracy?

[petegz28]

How 'bout DJ? Did Haley have a hand in his transformation, or was that Crennel?

I think Haley did a good job at motivating some of the players. But a good head coach that does not make. We have seen too many times this year where we were just flat out unprepared to play. Miami knocked our dick in our own dirt. The Tebows came in and threw the ball what, 8 times and beat us by 10 points? Buffalo, Detroit, New York all teams we should have beaten yet we looked like we were just realizing the season had started. Not until the 2nd half of game 3 did we even start to resemble a football team.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dude, he wasn't a very good coach. I wanted him to be. I actually liked his fire and attitude for the most part but he didn't know where to draw the line. Too much unprofessionalism across the board from the team being outplayed and outcoached to losing his temper at anyone and everyone.
I completely disagree. I think we confuse "outhustled" with "outplayed." The Chiefs were outplayed a lot because they don't have the talent to beat a team on their A game. I also think people really exaggerate his unprofessionalism. I thought he showed with players that you had to work hard to earn his trust, but he was fiercely loyal to those who did. Maybe even to a fault. I don't think it was the same as Eric Mangini who was a flat-out asshole to everyone.

Face the facts, the only time he had any success was while Weis was here. Other than that he has been the coach of a piss-poor team. It didn't even take Weis leaving, it just took the announcment of it.
We have no idea how this offense would have fared with Charles in the lineup, or if they played the same easy schedule as in 2010. And the Chiefs played very well against the Ravens. Stupid mistakes by the QB blew the game apart in the 3rd quarter.

Every other team in this league plays with injuries and went through the same pre-season BS we had too and yet the majority of those teams would kick our ass up and down the field. In fact, some of the shittiest teams in the league have kicked our ass up and down our own field. the Miami game was when I lost it with him. Our house, playing for sole possesion of first place and you get your ass planted by a winless team?
The Miami team turned out to actually be better than advertised. The beginning of the season was a mistake. But I saw a talentless team fight their way to 4 wins they had no business winning.

I don't know if Haley is a great coach. I don't think he's proven yet to be a bad one. He made some mistakes, but he's also learned from them. And he was severely short-changed with talent and it looks like he was micro-managed by a GM with no creative flexibility and no ability to work WITH his coach to build a team. Some of that is on Haley too, but last time I checked, Pioli is the one who mostly got his way at every corner.

[petegz28]

Consiperacy or am I actually right?
-Pioli is more of an zipped up, spiffy, fancy, dress up, formal kind of person. All about the image. Am I right?
So last year Todd Haley was clean shaved and looked clean for the most part. BUT!!!!
This year he started growing out his facial hair, wore "beaten up", old looking caps and attire. (Looked scruffy to say the least)
CONCLUSION:
Haley wasn't getting along with Pioli, thus he started to become a rebel.
WHY I THINK THIS:
-Haley refused to start or even play Stanzi. Pioli wanted to draft Stanzi because he likes Stanzi. Haley still stuck with Palko even through all the mess.
To go along with that... Post game interview, Haley says something along the lines of "I didn't want to stick Stanzi in there because I was afraid he was going to get hurt" then saying, "We talked about putting him in but it was just too late in the game and didn't want to risk injury."
WTF-- The Steelers game he was asked by a reporter this: "What if Tyler Palko got hurt?"
Haley: "We didn't want Palko to get hurt" -Pretty much saying he didn't want to go with Stanzi.
Anyone follow my conspiracy?

That may be. The Stanzi part is indefensible, imo. Your down by 28 points and you are afraid to put the rookie in because it's not a winnable situation? That's complete horseshit. And that is why you saw all the RRPP with Palko. He didn't want Palko hurt so he made it so it would be hard for him to be hurt.

I think Haley knew he was on his last leg and was depending on Palko to give him that "see, I told you so..." card but in the end Pioli is the one laughing.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think Haley did a good job at motivating some of the players. But a good head coach that does not make. We have seen too many times this year where we were just flat out unprepared to play. Miami knocked our dick in our own dirt. The Tebows came in and threw the ball what, 8 times and beat us by 10 points? Buffalo, Detroit, New York all teams we should have beaten yet we looked like we were just realizing the season had started. Not until the 2nd half of game 3 did we even start to resemble a football team.

Buffalo and Detroit were lost because of a poor coaching decision. Yes.

We weren't going to beat New York. We played Miami and Denver at really bad times. Those two teams both got really hot just as we played them.

And it doesn't change the fact that without Charles, this team is just not talented. We're not. We have a good not great defense and we play in an offensive league with a bad QB (and a horrendous backup QB).

Let me again ask this question... how many of your top 10 points would we be talking about today if Drew Brees was his QB?

[aturnis]

We must have the counter-thread....

1. I did support Haley. I started questioning him in pre-season and even tried to defend him to a point. He failed me. :harumph:

2. His game managment sucked asshole. Not going for it on 4th and inches on the opponents 40 but turning right around and kicking an on-side kick? WTF? :hmmm:

3. Team was never prepared to play. This team looked lost and soft all season long from training camp on. How does a head coach on a division winner allow this to ever happen? :eek:

4. The Chiefs have lost by 27 or more points a total of 30 times, I believe. 9 of those under Haley. That means over the life of the Chiefs 1/3 of those losses came in a 2 1/2 year span under the same coach. Just sad. :huh:

5. Terrible personel relations. 3 OC's in as many years. Obviously the guy is hard to get along with. :cuss:

6. Insisted on Palko as the backup. I know some of this falls on Pioli but Palki was Haley's man. Even after making some of the prettiest passes to the other team Haley refused to pull Palko. :banghead:

7. Dexter McCluster. Yes, I out this squarely on Haley. We could have had Cody but instead we got Mighty Mouse 2.0. :#

8. Jarred Gaither. Are you seriously telling me this guy isn't better than Richardson??? ;)

9. Powe never sees the field. Nuff said. :)

10. In our RB depleted position McClain continues to hardly ever play. Just dumb. :cuss:

Get it through your thick skull. Gaither had NOT INTEREST in playing RT.

[chiefzilla1501]

That may be. The Stanzi part is indefensible, imo. Your down by 28 points and you are afraid to put the rookie in because it's not a winnable situation? That's complete horseshit. And that is why you saw all the RRPP with Palko. He didn't want Palko hurt so he made it so it would be hard for him to be hurt.

I think Haley knew he was on his last leg and was depending on Palko to give him that "see, I told you so..." card but in the end Pioli is the one laughing.

Really? I think Palko was a pretty firm "fuck you" to the GM.

[petegz28]

I completely disagree. I think we confuse "outhustled" with "outplayed." The Chiefs were outplayed a lot because they don't have the talent to beat a team on their A game. I also think people really exaggerate his unprofessionalism. I thought he showed with players that you had to work hard to earn his trust, but he was fiercely loyal to those who did. Maybe even to a fault. I don't think it was the same as Eric Mangini who was a flat-out asshole to everyone.


We have no idea how this offense would have fared with Charles in the lineup, or if they played the same easy schedule as in 2010. And the Chiefs played very well against the Ravens. Stupid mistakes by the QB blew the game apart in the 3rd quarter.


The Miami team turned out to actually be better than advertised. The beginning of the season was a mistake. But I saw a talentless team fight their way to 4 wins they had no business winning.

I don't know if Haley is a great coach. I don't think he's proven yet to be a bad one. He made some mistakes, but he's also learned from them. And he was severely short-changed with talent and it looks like he was micro-managed by a GM with no creative flexibility and no ability to work WITH his coach to build a team. Some of that is on Haley too, but last time I checked, Pioli is the one who mostly got his way at every corner.

A) The dude was an asshole to his coaches
B) We got clobbered by the Ravens.
C) If Charles was in we may be 6-- instead of 5-8
D) I don't care what Miami was, they were 0-7 and came in OUR house when we had a chance to take 1st place and kicked the ever-loving crap out of us. There is flat out no excuse for that, PERIOD!

[aturnis]

That may be. The Stanzi part is indefensible, imo. Your down by 28 points and you are afraid to put the rookie in because it's not a winnable situation? That's complete horseshit. And that is why you saw all the RRPP with Palko. He didn't want Palko hurt so he made it so it would be hard for him to be hurt.

I think Haley knew he was on his last leg and was depending on Palko to give him that "see, I told you so..." card but in the end Pioli is the one laughing.

You don't think Haley refused to play Pioli's guy in order to piss him off as he left town?

[petegz28]

Buffalo and Detroit were lost because of a poor coaching decision. Yes.

We weren't going to beat New York. We played Miami and Denver at really bad times. Those two teams both got really hot just as we played them.

And it doesn't change the fact that without Charles, this team is just not talented. We're not. We have a good not great defense and we play in an offensive league with a bad QB (and a horrendous backup QB).

Let me again ask this question... how many of your top 10 points would we be talking about today if Drew Brees was his QB?

Can't say because Drew Brees isn't our QB. I am not into hypotheticals here. I am into what actually happened. And what actually happened is from the 1st snap of pre-season until now this team has looked unprepared to play.

[petegz28]

You don't think Haley refused to play Pioli's guy in order to piss him off as he left town?

Possibly. I can't say he didn't

[OnTheWarpath15]

Can't say because Drew Brees isn't our QB. I am not into hypotheticals here. I am into what actually happened. And what actually happened is from the 1st snap of pre-season until now this team has looked unprepared to play.

Drew Brees wouldn't have put up with Haley's bullshit.

[chiefzilla1501]

Drew Brees wouldn't have put up with Haley's bullshit.

You mean the way Kurt Warner did?

This is ridiculous. As I said before, Haley was not unreasonable to players who earned his trust.

[DuhChiefs]

We surely don't have to worry about Palko coming back (if Pioli is smart, which I sure hope so)
Next year's QB Depth Chart?-
STARTER: Stanzi/Orton/Cassel/Rookie?
-LOL
Once we give Stanzi the shot to prove if he is our future or not in these last weeks. We will be able to figure out our QB situation for next year.
We also need to figure if Stanzi is good or not BECAUSE we have to plan for the draft and if Stanzi isn't our guy. We have to go after a quality QB in the upcoming draft. OR go after FREE AGENT (Maybe Manning if he doesn't want to stay with INDY if Colts go for Luck) After all we are #4 in the running for Manning :D

[petegz28]

Look it, I am a fair guy, usually. I understand that every year most teams drop a game they should otherwise win. I understand that usually once a year you have a game where you get your shit kicked in. Buffalo, Detroit, New England, Miami and New York is 5 times we've had our shit kicked in. Not to mention losing 17-7 in our own house against a team who threw the ball all of 8 times. And The Pack is probably going to give us blowout #6 unless they just absolutely look past us or Romeo pulls something out of his ass.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You mean the way Kurt Warner did?

This is ridiculous. As I said before, Haley was not unreasonable to players who earned his trust.

Todd was the HC in Arizona?

LMAO

OK.


As far as Kc is concerned, I guess you were there (on the sidelines) to make that claim? Otherwise, all we have to go on is seeing him on TV or at games screaming at anyone within earshot, player or coach.

Guess no one on the sideline earned his trust.

[petegz28]

LMAO

OK.

You were there. Otherwise, all we have to go on is seeing him on TV or at games screaming at anyone within earshot, player or coach.

Guess no one on the sideline earned his trust.

Not to mention Haley was not the head coach in AZ.

[chiefzilla1501]

Can't say because Drew Brees isn't our QB. I am not into hypotheticals here. I am into what actually happened. And what actually happened is from the 1st snap of pre-season until now this team has looked unprepared to play.

I'm talking about blowouts that people keep talking about, where our QB misfired on passes for a quarter and a half as the team pulled away. How many times has Aaron Rodgers won a game where the defense gave up 30+? How many times has Cassel? The Chiefs get blown out because when their defense gives up points, we don't have a QB who can keep up.

And how many games would our defense play fresher if our QB was actually extending drives, whereas Cassel and Palko are "captain 3 and out"?

Are they unprepared? Or is the QB just not reading defenses at the line of scrimmage? Is the QB just not executing the plays called in?

[petegz28]

I'm talking about blowouts that people keep talking about, where our QB misfired on passes for a quarter and a half as the team pulled away. How many times has Aaron Rodgers won a game where the defense gave up 30+? How many times has Cassel? The Chiefs get blown out because when their defense gives up points, we don't have a QB who can keep up.

And how many games would our defense play fresher if our QB was actually extending drives, whereas Cassel and Palko are "captain 3 and out"?

Are they unprepared? Or is the QB just not reading defenses at the line of scrimmage? Is the QB just not executing the plays called in?

3 and out wouldn't have much to do with the playcalling we have seen all year would it? After all, I mean when they let Cassel actually play in something that looked like a real offense he choked...oh wait...not the 2nd half of San Diego, not the 2nd half of Minny, Indy, Oakland.

Seems to me that when given the chance Cassel did a rather colorless but somewhat OK job. It's the constant Dex up the middle and TJ for 2 and then expecting Cassel to pull out of a 3rd and 9 series after series that hurt us more than Cassel in and of himself.

In fact, for the first half of the season we lead the league in converting 3rd and long. Did you ever think Haley quit calling Dex up the middle for a loss of 2 every series drives might not have been so short?

[DuhChiefs]

Why we still talking about Haley... If you are SANE you would realize that he was killing the team this year... Also if anyone thinks that he deserved a chance because we had injuries and what not.
-You are full of it...
He's a dxck
and doesn't haven any FOOTBALL PLAYING EXP
He played golf from HS through College... Didn't even play HS football... I'm duhn.

[petegz28]

I guess the argument is that if you surrounded Haley with a shitload of talent they would have been able to play through a lot of the bad coaching decisions?

[chiefzilla1501]

A) The dude was an asshole to his coaches
I don't know. Maybe.

B) We got clobbered by the Ravens.
3rd quarter - 10-7 Ravens
First possession - missed 4th and 1 on the 33 yard line (Cassel has 1 INT)
Second possession - Cassel intentionally grounds the ball. Gets sacked for 5 yards. McCluster fumbles.
Third possession - Matt Cassel intercepted on one play

Final tally. Cassel - 2 INTs, 1 intentionally grounding, a sack. McCluster - 1 fumble.
Defense - due to turnovers, start 2 possessions defending the red zone
3rd quarter ends - Ravens 23, Chiefs 7

Matt Cassel absolutely shat his pants in the 3rd quarter. The Chiefs were competitive otherwise.

C) If Charles was in we may be 6-- instead of 5-8
Charles is a huge part of this offense. How can you possibly qualify that?

D) I don't care what Miami was, they were 0-7 and came in OUR house when we had a chance to take 1st place and kicked the ever-loving crap out of us. There is flat out no excuse for that, PERIOD!
I'm saying they were a better team than advertised. But yes, no excuse. But again goes back to... the defense is going to give up points every once in a while. Why can't we have a QB that can help them out every once in a while? Are we going to get blown out every time our defense gives up a few quick scores?

[petegz28]

I don't know. Maybe.


3rd quarter - 10-7 Ravens
First possession - missed 4th and 1 on the 33 yard line (Cassel has 1 INT)
Second possession - Cassel intentionally grounds the ball. Gets sacked for 5 yards. McCluster fumbles.
Third possession - Matt Cassel intercepted on one play

Final tally. Cassel - 2 INTs, 1 intentionally grounding, a sack. McCluster - 1 fumble.
Defense - due to turnovers, start 2 possessions defending the red zone
3rd quarter ends - Ravens 23, Chiefs 7

Matt Cassel absolutely shat his pants in the 3rd quarter. The Chiefs were competitive otherwise.


Charles is a huge part of this offense. How can you possibly qualify that?


I'm saying they were a better team than advertised. But yes, no excuse. But again goes back to... the defense is going to give up points every once in a while. Why can't we have a QB that can help them out every once in a while? Are we going to get blown out every time our defense gives up a few quick scores?

You know what your argument makes me think of? Phil Jackson, the NBA coach. Oh yea, he is a stud coach. I mean when you have Jordan, Rodman and Pippen then Kobe and Shaq I mean ****, how do you **** that up? I don't think you could short of benching them.

[DuhChiefs]

Even if our STUD guys over played his bad coaching mistakes... Haley would've been exposed in the playoffs just like he was last year...

[petegz28]

And for those blaming Cassel for Haley's fail just think about this...

Marty took this team to a shitload of playoffs with shit QB's

DeBerg
Kraig
I'll give you Montana was a good QB
Bono
Grbac\Gannon

I think it's hard to lay fault solely at the feet of Cassel for Haley.

[chiefzilla1501]

I guess the argument is that if you surrounded Haley with a shitload of talent they would have been able to play through a lot of the bad coaching decisions?

Not surrounding him with a shitload of talent.

Giving him a real QB. We've all said a million times that NO coach should be expected to win games without a franchise QB.

Using $30M of cap space to give him depth so he's not forced to put Sabby fucking Piscitelli on the field. Or Tyler Palko (or a 5th round rookie).

Because the front office was so damn cheap, Haley was forced to play a lot of really, really shitty players because he simply had no choice.

[petegz28]

Not surrounding him with a shitload of talent.

Giving him a real QB. We've all said a million times that NO coach should be expected to win games without a franchise QB.

Using $30M of cap space to give him depth so he's not forced to put Sabby ****ing Piscitelli on the field. Or Tyler Palko (or a 5th round rookie).

Because the front office was so damn cheap, Haley was forced to play a lot of really, really shitty players because he simply had no choice.

Marty won a shitload of games without a franchise QB. If you expect me to believe Haley was "forced" as you claim then sorry, I am not buying it.

[trndobrd]

After Weis left Haley made it clear that he was taking control of the offense by naming Bill Muir as the OC.

This year the Chiefs have scored 15 offensive touchdowns, just barely edging out the Rams for 31st in the League. In three games this season the Chiefs failed to score a singular touchdown. It's not that the Chiefs lost games, it's that in most games they were not competitive.

But..but...but Pioli saddled him with coordinators and didn't give him the players, and the injuries, and...and....and.... It took half a season for the Offensive staff to figure out how to get a play called in to the QB. The "up the middle, draw play, 6 yard pass on third down, punt" play calling scheme had not been updated from Herm Edwards time.

The National Football League is about scoring touchdowns and at every game they have a big board that says how each team is doing in that area. Haley was cashing the checks and not making the numbers on the board go up.

[chiefzilla1501]

Even if our STUD guys over played his bad coaching mistakes... Haley would've been exposed in the playoffs just like he was last year...

The Chiefs weren't exposed. Give me a break. I explained pretty clearly above that Cassel completely shit his pants in the 3rd quarter, leading to a 13 point swing.

[petegz28]

After Weis left Haley made it clear that he was taking control of the offense by naming Bill Muir as the OC.

This year the Chiefs have scored 15 offensive touchdowns, just barely edging out the Rams for 31st in the League. In three games this season the Chiefs failed to score a singular touchdown. It's not that the Chiefs lost games, it's that in most games they were not competitive.

But..but...but Pioli saddled him with coordinators and didn't give him the players, and the injuries, and...and....and.... It took half a season for the Offensive staff to figure out how to get a play called in to the QB. The "up the middle, draw play, 6 yard pass on third down, punt" play calling scheme had not been updated from Herm Edwards time.

The National Football League is about scoring touchdowns and at every game they have a big board that says how each team is doing in that area. Haley was cashing the checks and not making the numbers on the board go up.

Exactly. If Miami came in here and beat us by 3 or 7 then you say ok, tough luck. If the Tebows pulled out a miracle like they have the last 3 games then you say, tough luck. But to let Buffalo come in your house in game one and kick your dick in the dirt, they go to Detroit and let them light you up like a firecracker on the 4th then let a winless team come in and stomp your ass in your own house like Miami did then there is a problem somewhere with the coaching.

[petegz28]

The Chiefs weren't exposed. Give me a break. I explained pretty clearly above that Cassel completely shit his pants in the 3rd quarter, leading to a 13 point swing.

Dude they were exposed. They were exposed the week before by the Raiders who kicked our ass all over our own field.

[CreightonChief]

We must have the counter-thread....

1. I did support Haley. I started questioning him in pre-season and even tried to defend him to a point. He failed me. :harumph:
]

2. His game managment sucked asshole. Not going for it on 4th and inches on the opponents 40 but turning right around and kicking an on-side kick? WTF? :hmmm:

Trusted his defense more than offense.

3. Team was never prepared to play. This team looked lost and soft all season long from training camp on. How does a head coach on a division winner allow this to ever happen? :eek:
What about the games that the Chiefs won during his tenure that they had no business winning? Who cares if we lose by 40 or by 1, a loss is a loss. Yesterday we could have played the Jets closer, but Haley wanted to evaluate his players.[COLOR]

4. The Chiefs have lost by 27 or more points a total of 30 times, I believe. 9 of those under Haley. That means over the life of the Chiefs 1/3 of those losses came in a 2 1/2 year span under the same coach. Just sad. :huh:
[COLOR="navy"]Read previous post. Todd Haley was using a lost season to evaluate players during games he knew were over.5. Terrible personel relations. 3 OC's in as many years. Obviously the guy is hard to get along with. :cuss:

Wasn't allowed to hire his own staff
6. Insisted on Palko as the backup. I know some of this falls on Pioli but Palki was Haley's man. Even after making some of the prettiest passes to the other team Haley refused to pull Palko. :banghead:

His only other option was Ricky Stanzi. Evidently Palko is better than Stanzi. Other than yesterday Todd was happy with Tyler Palkos performance, and thought he showed promise

7. Dexter McCluster. Yes, I out this squarely on Haley. We could have had Cody but instead we got Mighty Mouse 2.0. :#

Cody is a fat piece of shit. Dexter is a legit playmaker who can take it to the house any time he touches the ball8. Jarred Gaither.

Are you seriously telling me this guy isn't better than Richardson??? ;)

Gaither is malcotent, whom came into camp out of shape. Also was cut by Baltimore.

9. Powe never sees the field. Nuff said. :)

Best players play.
10. In our RB depleted position McClain continues to hardly ever play. Just dumb. :cuss:

McClain didn't get touches with Baltimore last year as well. He's not as good as McCluster, Battle, or Jones

[chiefzilla1501]

Marty won a shitload of games without a franchise QB. If you expect me to believe Haley was "forced" as you claim then sorry, I am not buying it.

This is a good argument.

So we should build our model off Marty and we should also ignore the importance of a franchise QB.

We shouldn't draft a first round QB next year. A good coach doesn't need one.

[petegz28]

McClain didn't get touches with Baltimore last year as well. He's not as good as McCluster, Battle, or Jones

I can't read a fucking thing you posted

[petegz28]

This is a good argument.

So we should build our model off Marty and we should also ignore the importance of a franchise QB.

We shouldn't draft a first round QB next year. A good coach doesn't need one.

I never said ignore a franchise QB. I am just pointing out as you are placing all this Haley fail at the feet of Cassel that Marty went to several playoff games with shitty QB's/

[trndobrd]

It's funny. The more I think about it, the more football seems like any other business:

A salesman might think the product has glaring weaknesses, the company isn't advertising enough, the sales manager is a controlling jerk, and the leads are weak. If he doesn't get sales, he gets fired. Haley didn't get the cadillac...he didn't even get the set of steak knives.

[DuhChiefs]

I didn't say the CHIEFS were exposed. I said HALEY was exposed... and for that matter, so was Cassel.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dude they were exposed. They were exposed the week before by the Raiders who kicked our ass all over our own field.

The Chiefs were trailing 10-7 at halftime. They marched the ball downfield to the 33 and then went for it on 4th and 1 and failed to convert (a 50-yard field goal would have tied).

They got clobbered in the 3rd quarter because our offense created two turnovers on the next two possessions (out of stupidity, not because the Ravens exposed our playcalling) that put the Ravens into the red zone on back-to-back possessions.

Our QB alone gave away two consecutive possession leading to a 13-point swing. That's not the team being exposed. That's a bad QB being exposed.

[petegz28]

The Chiefs were trailing 10-7 at halftime. They marched the ball downfield to the 33 and then went for it on 4th and 1 and failed to convert (a 50-yard field goal would have tied).

They got clobbered in the 3rd quarter because our offense created two turnovers on the next two possessions (out of stupidity, not because the Ravens exposed our playcalling) that put the Ravens into the red zone on back-to-back possessions.

Our QB alone gave away two consecutive possession leading to a 13-point swing. That's not the team being exposed. That's a bad QB being exposed.

A bad QB that still threw 27 TD's that year. Sure, Cassel isn't the answer but you can't throw that as an excuse for Haley.

[petegz28]

McClain didn't get touches with Baltimore last year as well. He's not as good as McCluster, Battle, or Jones

Dude you lost me at the Cody is a piece of shit. He is so shitty he has started all 13 games for Baltimore.

[petegz28]

Oh yea, and Dex is a real playmaker....I mean those 2 yard losses every series shows what a stud he is. Cut Charles, start Dex!

[chiefzilla1501]

I never said ignore a franchise QB. I am just pointing out as you are placing all this Haley fail at the feet of Cassel that Marty went to several playoff games with shitty QB's/

Marty was also a defensive coach and had an elite defense that he was given time and resources to build. He also had an elite running game in all his years but one.

Haley isn't a defensive coach. He wasn't given any money to spend on players. He had to take twice as long to build the defense because Pioli insisted on doing a complete 180 on switching to a 3-4. It's not the same situation. If you have Charles healthy, we have no idea what this season would have looked like. More importantly, Marty didn't have to pull 6th stringers to start because Carl Peterson completely ignored depth positions. Haley did.

Haley doesn't have to be surrounded by elite talent everywhere. But he shouldn't have to resort to pulling guys who don't belong on any 53-man roster into the starting lineup because in 3 years, the GM still hasn't figured out how to get depth.

[chiefzilla1501]

A bad QB that still threw 27 TD's that year. Sure, Cassel isn't the answer but you can't throw that as an excuse for Haley.

Yes, I can. Cassel isn't a good QB. I don't care what the statistics say.

He's not franchise. No coach in this QB-driven league should be asked to win playoff games with a guy who isn't a franchise QB. In this modern NFL, it's just not practical.

[trndobrd]

Yes, I can. Cassel isn't a good QB. I don't care what the statistics say.

He's not franchise. No coach in this QB-driven league should be asked to win playoff games with a guy who isn't a franchise QB. In this modern NFL, it's just not practical.

Haley didn't get fired because he lost a playoff game last year. He was canned because his team was not competitive in too many games this year.

[petegz28]

Yes, I can. Cassel isn't a good QB. I don't care what the statistics say.

He's not franchise. No coach in this QB-driven league should be asked to win playoff games with a guy who isn't a franchise QB. In this modern NFL, it's just not practical.

You mean like 6th round pick Tom Brady who only got to see the field because Bledsoe got hurt?

[Rausch]

McClain didn't get touches with Baltimore last year as well. He's not as good as McCluster, Battle, or Jones

Jones is so done he's getting outplayed by the 4th string HB who only made the team due to his special teams play...

[chiefzilla1501]

Haley didn't get fired because he lost a playoff game last year. He was canned because his team was not competitive in too many games this year.

For a team with an average QB, below average talent at backup RB... there were a few games where we were competitive, but we shouldn't have been.

Pioli gave Haley a B-league roster. With injuries, it's D-league.

[chiefzilla1501]

You mean like 6th round pick Tom Brady who only got to see the field because Bledsoe got hurt?

JFC.

Tom Brady is a franchise QB because he's a good QB.

Tyler Palko will never be Brady. 99.9% chance Stanzi won't either.

When Cassel went down with injury, what coach could have possibly led this talentless team to the playoffs?

[petegz28]

For a team with an average QB, below average talent at backup RB... there were a few games where we were competitive, but we shouldn't have been.

Pioli gave Haley a B-league roster. With injuries, it's D-league.

Well unfortunately here is the reality of it. I will give you a fun analogy.

Boss says: we're buying this new software

I says: Boss that stuff is not good. Don't buy it, it's a bad decision.

Boss says: fuck you I'm buying it

Boss gets the software then calls me into his office....

Boss says: This shit sucks, WTF did you buy this

I says: Why is the fault mine, you're the one that wanted it

Boss says: because you weren't good enough to talk me out of it

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

We must have the counter-thread....

1. I did support Haley. I started questioning him in pre-season and even tried to defend him to a point. He failed me. :harumph:

2. His game managment sucked asshole. Not going for it on 4th and inches on the opponents 40 but turning right around and kicking an on-side kick? WTF? :hmmm:

3. Team was never prepared to play. This team looked lost and soft all season long from training camp on. How does a head coach on a division winner allow this to ever happen? :eek:

4. The Chiefs have lost by 27 or more points a total of 30 times, I believe. 9 of those under Haley. That means over the life of the Chiefs 1/3 of those losses came in a 2 1/2 year span under the same coach. Just sad. :huh:

5. Terrible personel relations. 3 OC's in as many years. Obviously the guy is hard to get along with. :cuss:

6. Insisted on Palko as the backup. I know some of this falls on Pioli but Palki was Haley's man. Even after making some of the prettiest passes to the other team Haley refused to pull Palko. :banghead:

7. Dexter McCluster. Yes, I out this squarely on Haley. We could have had Cody but instead we got Mighty Mouse 2.0. :#

8. Jarred Gaither. Are you seriously telling me this guy isn't better than Richardson??? ;)

9. Powe never sees the field. Nuff said. :)

10. In our RB depleted position McClain continues to hardly ever play. Just dumb. :cuss:



http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d824fc1ab/Reporters-view-on-Haley-s-release


Palko is all pioli haley had no power on roster go to 1min 50 sec thats pioli boy to Michael Lombard Gaither goes on pioli to for cutting him

[trndobrd]

For a team with an average QB, below average talent at backup RB... there were a few games where we were competitive, but we shouldn't have been.

Pioli gave Haley a B-league roster. With injuries, it's D-league.


So your argument is that with the current lineup, the Chiefs are overachieving at 31st in Touchdown scoring?

Miami's roster is so much better than the Chiefs that a 3-31 loss is expected? The Jets are 27 points better than the Chiefs lineup? Buffalo? 41-7?

[chiefzilla1501]

Well unfortunately here is the reality of it. I will give you a fun analogy.

Boss says: we're buying this new software

I says: Boss that stuff is not good. Don't buy it, it's a bad decision.

Boss says: **** you I'm buying it

Boss gets the software then calls me into his office....

Boss says: This shit sucks, WTF did you buy this

I says: Why is the fault mine, you're the one that wanted it

Boss says: because you weren't good enough to talk me out of it

It's a good analogy.

A good boss gives his associates the tools he needs to succeed and flexibly adapts to his associates' strengths.

Pioli saw things only one way. If he had a sales staff that was built on tremendous social skills, he would have forced them to sit in a cube and crunch numbers.

That's the big idea.

[ChiefsCountry]

McClain didn't get touches with Baltimore last year as well. He's not as good as McCluster, Battle, or Jones

Looks like we have found the KnowMo of Chiefs fans now. :facepalm:

[petegz28]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d824fc1ab/Reporters-view-on-Haley-s-release


Palko is all pioli haley had no power on roster go to 1min 50 sec thats pioli boy to Michael Lombard Gaither goes on pioli to for cutting him

Appreciate the link. I'll peep it out in the morning I have to get to bed or I won't get up in the morning.

[Mr. Laz]

Haley is to offense what Gunther Cunningham is to defense.

always running his mouth and never backing up
only successful when he's under somebody that keeps him on a leash
only one real management style ... yelling
coaches by the seat of his pants and makes important decision based on emotion

[Brock]

Palko is all pioli haley had no power on roster go to 1min 50 sec thats pioli boy to Michael Lombard Gaither goes on pioli to for cutting him

What difference does it make who cut him, haley wouldn't play him.

[chiefzilla1501]

So your argument is that with the current lineup, the Chiefs are overachieving at 31st in Touchdown scoring?

Miami's roster is so much better than the Chiefs that a 3-31 loss is expected? The Jets are 27 points better than the Chiefs lineup? Buffalo? 41-7?

This team without Charles is less talented than a lot of teams in this league. This team without Charles and Cassel is one of the least talented teams in the league.

[petegz28]

It's a good analogy.

A good boss gives his associates the tools he needs to succeed and flexibly adapts to his associates' strengths.

Pioli saw things only one way. If he had a sales staff that was built on tremendous social skills, he would have forced them to sit in a cube and crunch numbers.

That's the big idea.

But that's how it works. A good coach knows how to get what he wants or he isn't a good coach. Or, the boss won't be employed for long. Everyday I have to convince my boss why I don't agree with a particular issue and why my take is the correct one. Sure there are times I get fucked and then get blamed for getting fucked and then get blamed for allowing myself to get fucked. It's part of life.

[xztop12]

Dude he thought lifting weights and running was more important to football success than actually practicing football.....

Troy Polamalu doesn't even lift weights...

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

What difference does it make who cut him, haley wouldn't play him.

If reports are true that haley was gonna walk away before the pats game.Why would pioli cut him ? if he know haley would be gone soon

[chiefzilla1501]

But that's how it works. A good coach knows how to get what he wants or he isn't a good coach. Or, the boss won't be employed for long. Everyday I have to convince my boss why I don't agree with a particular issue and why my take is the correct one. Sure there are times I get ****ed and then get blamed for getting ****ed and then get blamed for allowing myself to get ****ed. It's part of life.

I don't think there's a single person who would say that any coach save for Bill Bellichick that could have stopped Pioli from doing things exactly his way. It's hard to blame Haley for that one. And I don't think it's for a lack of trying.

To your point, the boss SHOULDN'T be employed for long. But he will be.

The reality in life is that there are some bosses who are horrible at what they do, but they somehow keep getting or keeping work.

[Mr. Laz]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d824fc1ab/Reporters-view-on-Haley-s-release


Palko is all pioli haley had no power on roster go to 1min 50 sec thats pioli boy to Michael Lombard Gaither goes on pioli to for cutting him

didn't Palko come from Arizona?

I seriously doubt the Pioli made the decision to cut Gaither, he did what his coaches suggested.

[petegz28]

didn't Palko come from Arizona?

I seriously doubt the Pioli made the decision to cut Gaither, he did what his coaches suggested.

Yes he did

[Reerun_KC]

So is this your way to throwing in the towel?

[trndobrd]

This team without Charles is less talented than a lot of teams in this league. This team without Charles and Cassel is one of the least talented teams in the league.

Two of the three games in which the Chiefs failed to score a single touchdown were prior to Cassel being injured.

[Rausch]

Dude he thought lifting weights and running was more important to football success than actually practicing football.....

Troy Polamalu doesn't even lift weights...

We hired a golfer for HC and sit here wondering where it went wrong?

Really?...

[htismaqe]

I don't think there's a single person who would say that any coach save for Bill Bellichick that could have stopped Pioli from doing things exactly his way. It's hard to blame Haley for that one. And I don't think it's for a lack of trying.

To your point, the boss SHOULDN'T be employed for long. But he will be.

The reality in life is that there are some bosses who are horrible at what they do, but they somehow keep getting or keeping work.

Absolutely agree with you on this one.