Haley's termination. Cliff notes and highlites?

[milkman]

So I've worked long hours the last couple of days, and haven't had much time to read the threads.

In perusing a couple of threads, I've seen someone alluding to "things we've learned" about this firing.

Can someone enlighten me what it is we've learned?

[FAX]

We have learned much, grasshopper.

FAX

[crazycoffey]

that you're a dumbass for missing this as it happened

[BigMeatballDave]

Hindsight is 50/50

[Bugeater]

The consensus seems to be that we're fucking fucked.

[Phobia]

We've learned that the next Chiefs head coach was born in a manger long, long ago. For He is the only one who meets the fan's criteria for head coach of the KC Chiefs. Which is especially appropo considering the timing of the holidays and the celebration of His birth.

[Chief_For_Life58]

The consensus seems to be that we're ****ing ****ed.

yepppp

[Bugeater]

How fucked are we you ask? Well, we're so fucking fucked that we couldn't be more fucked on our fuckingest day even if we had an electrified fucking machine.

[FAX]

I think I speak for the entire Chiefs nation when I say, "It's a Pioli world and we're just visiting."

FAX

[KC Hawks]

We learned that Pioli and Hunt don't think of the children.

[tk13]

Dark times are ahead.

[KCrockaholic]

We've learned a lot about nothing. And almost not worth going over again.

We need to hire a coach. Draft a QB. And win some god damn football games.

All the stuff in between is nonsense.

[KCrockaholic]

We learned that Pioli and Hunt don't think of the children.

LMAO

That question was hilarious.

And I fucking loved the looks on their faces.

[SPchief]

Pioli wasn't thinking of Haleys children when he fired him right before christmas.

[Rasputin]

Pioli pets a white cat.

[tk13]

We also learned FAX can unwrap a starburst wrapper with his tongue. Or maybe that was luv, I can't remember at this point. The whole thing is a blur.

[MahiMike]

We learned that we should have never drafted LJ. Vermiel would have 3 rings by now.

[BigMeatballDave]

LMAO

That question was hilarious.

And I fucking loved the looks on their faces.

LMAO Awesome. I don't see how she possibly asked that with a straight face.

[SPchief]

We learned that what ever coach is hired, CP won't approve.

[KCrockaholic]

Fuck Bernard Pollard.

It was ALLLLLL Bernard fucking Pollard.

[KcMizzou]

LMAO

That question was hilarious.

And I ****ing loved the looks on their faces.Best comment I saw about that : "Kornacki always gets a pass because she's female, and she's nice. Great qualities for a mom... not so great for a reporter."

[KCrockaholic]

Best comment I saw about that : "Kornacki always gets a pass because she's female, and she's nice. Great qualities for a mom... not so great for a reporter."

Even though the rest of the kc media are goons, I'm sure they were all trying to hold in a giant laugh.

Although if I remember correctly, her 2nd question was solid. Just don't remember what it was.

[WhiteWhale]

Cliff notes.

-Haley is fired Monday morning.

-Pioli is taking a beating from a lot of folks in the media, which is well deserved.

-Haley's 'bizarre behavior' seems to be getting more attention than his coaching record.

- Lots of speculation that Pioli himself was somehow leaking all that 'bad press' about haley all season. Not sayin' it's true. Just sayin'.

- Some local douche had an e-peen measuring contest with Charles Robinson on Twitter while C-Rob was throwing dirt around about the whole situation. I'm not local, so I don't really care who it was.

- I think there's like one or two people who are happy and think this is a great direction, several who think he got a raw deal from Pioli, and the majority who just think he, Clark, and Pioli should all eat a bullet.

My personal stance is somewhere in between there. I think Haley got a raw deal. I think the deck was stacked against him from the start.. but he actually did enough to justify getting fired. I'm just not sure those justifiable reasons are the real reason he was fired. If that makes sense. Even though I understand it, it's still leaving a nasty taste in my mouth.

Now what did I learn? I'll be honest... the main theme I'm getting here is that Haley is an abrasive dick and Pioli is a total ****ing sleaze. That's my impression of the whole situation.

[Okie_Apparition]

Weis washed his hands of Cassel & his improvement in 2010 is Haley's
Weis homers & Jayhawk fans question their faith in God

[FAX]

Even though the rest of the kc media are goons, I'm sure they were all trying to hold in a giant laugh.

Although if I remember correctly, her 2nd question was solid. Just don't remember what it was.

It was about timing again ... only this time it was something like, "Why now? Did you feel pressure from the fans or the players?"

They dodged that one along with all the rest.

FAX

[milkman]

So, essentially, we didn't learn a damn thing, is what I'm getting from this.

[KcMizzou]

So, essentially, we didn't learn a damn thing, is what I'm getting from this.exactly

[FAX]

So, essentially, we didn't learn a damn thing, is what I'm getting from this.

Not true, Mr. milkman. Not true at all.

We learned that it's better to act like you know what you don't know than to pretend you don't know what you know unless you know that what you don't know is something you should know.

FAX

[KCrockaholic]

So, essentially, we didn't learn a damn thing, is what I'm getting from this.

We learned that Clark and Pioli are a couple o' douches. Haley wasn't consistent enough. The end.

[Titty Meat]

So, essentially, we didn't learn a damn thing, is what I'm getting from this.

I think we're learning a few things from this situation about our fan base. For the first time in my lifetime (26 years) the majority of the fan base wants us to draft a Quarterback. These are really interesting times because also for the first time in my lifetime I feel we're pretty close to seeing Arrowhead empty week in week out if A) Josh McDaniels is hired as the head coach. B) Matt Cassel is brought back as the starter without atleast us drafting a rookie QB.

[Rasputin]

Just 364 more days until the end of the world as we know it ends.

I feel fine. Ok.

[Boss Hog]

Who do you guys think is most likely to be the next coach in Kansas City? I would like to see Jeff Fisher as the next head coach.

[WhiteWhale]

Who do you guys think is most likely to be the next coach in Kansas City? I would like to see Jeff Fisher as the next head coach.

Do people keep saying this exact phrase, verbatim, simply to annoy me?

With all due respect, f**k Jeff Fisher.

[Rasputin]

Who do you guys think is most likely to be the next coach in Kansas City? I would like to see Jeff Fisher as the next head coach.

( . ) ( . )

nice avitar

[KcMizzou]

Do people keep saying this exact phrase, verbatim, simply to annoy me?

With all due respect, f**k Jeff Fisher.Who do you want?

[Boss Hog]

What's wrong with Jeff Fisher? I think he is a great coach. Maybe you want to bring Brian Billick in? That would certainly be retarded.

[BigMeatballDave]

What's wrong with Jeff Fisher? I think he is a great coach. Maybe you want to bring Brian Billick in? That would certainly be retarded.

I don't want either, but at least Billick won a SB.

[Boss Hog]

Who has a legitimate chance at coming here? Would you rather see a college coach get bumped up or an ex-NFL coach? Kirby Smart of Alabama is an idea.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't want either, but at least Billick won a SB.

No shit.

I find it comical that people think Jeff Fisher is some amazing coach while Billick is some slapdick.

[Nightfyre]

I don't know about many highlights. As for a lowlight, it appears we are going to be stuck with cassel forever.

[tk13]

I don't think Fisher would be my choice, but he probably gets a tough rap around here. He might have had the worst salary cap situation of any coach in the salary cap era, and an owner who force fed him a QB he didn't want. He certainly has flaws, but he was also a couple feet from taking the 99 Rams to OT too. That's pretty tough. Then had to watch his team be gutted and still rebuilt it into something halfway competitive. Not sure that means he can do it again though.

[Okie_Apparition]

Even Herm wants no part of Pioli

[tk13]

Of course I'm looking at this through the glasses that say there's a 50+% chance McDaniels might be our next coach. I'd rather hire Fisher 14 times in a row over that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think Fisher would be my choice, but he probably gets a tough rap around here. He might have had the worst salary cap situation of any coach in the salary cap era, and an owner who force fed him a QB he didn't want. He certainly has flaws, but he was also a couple feet from taking the 99 Rams to OT too. That's pretty tough. Then had to watch his team be gutted and still rebuilt it into something halfway competitive. Not sure that means he can do it again though.

Force fed a QB: Well, that covers from 2006 on. What about the other 10+ years?

Couple of feet from OT: Should have never even gotten the chance. Refs blew the Music City Miracle call. Refs get that call right, and he has a career 2-6 playoff record.

He gets a tough rap here because he was an average coach.

[tk13]

Yeah, but that's sports. We go over this left and right and sometimes it just comes down to luck. If the tuck rule didn't exist, maybe the Patriots never have a dynasty and 10 years of NFL football is wildly different.

[Smed1065]

We decided MM knows as much as Pioli.

And oPdiapers took your spot.

[Buehler445]

There was a bunch of rumors saying Haley would be fired. Now there are a bunch of similar rumors McDaniels is getting hired. That makes me hate life but it is what it is.

[Chief Roundup]

We learned that Clark is the one that fired Haley. In the press conference Pioli looked nervous. There are a few of us that think that Clark put Pioli on notice that things had to improve. Pioli admitted he had to do his job better.
We learned that Haley and Pioli disagreed about the Tyson Jackson pick and it has been a problem between them ever since. Haley didn't want Tyson Jackson. We learned that Weis didn't want Cassel.

[jd1020]

I don't know about many highlights. As for a lowlight, it appears we are going to be stuck with cassel forever.

Pioli has 50/50 vision.

[Smed1065]

They said we get Luck.

[WhiteWhale]

Who do you want?

Said it before, but I"m not jumping on a bandwagon just to jump on a bandwagon.

I'll browse and pick a guy. It's a process of elimination, and Fisher has been eliminated.

[WhiteWhale]

Force fed a QB: Well, that covers from 2006 on. What about the other 10+ years?

Couple of feet from OT: Should have never even gotten the chance. Refs blew the Music City Miracle call. Refs get that call right, and he has a career 2-6 playoff record.

He gets a tough rap here because he was an average coach.

What fisher did was kinda ****ed up.

He put the squeeze on his owner to pick between himself and the 'franchise QB' they had drafted. They picked him and then a few weeks later he was all like "Ha, I win. **** you, I'm OUT!"

[jd1020]

I dunno why but I trust Pioli to make a good hire. He's got no reason to be rushed this time around.

[Smed1065]

Said it before, but I"m not jumping on a bandwagon just to jump on a bandwagon.

I'll browse and pick a guy. It's a process of elimination, and Fisher has been eliminated.

So step up azz.

You waited 1 chance.

[Smed1065]

You knew who not too. Jump.

Cosmo playing bitch.

[WhiteWhale]

So step up azz.

You waited 1 chance.

Coach no me choose.

Why give fuck you?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, but that's sports. We go over this left and right and sometimes it just comes down to luck. If the tuck rule didn't exist, maybe the Patriots never have a dynasty and 10 years of NFL football is wildly different.

Yeah, but the rule does exist, and was correctly enforced.

The refs flat out blew the MCM call.

Regardless, I see another Martyocre HC.

No thanks.

[007]

How ****ed are we you ask? Well, we're so ****ing ****ed that we couldn't be more ****ed on our ****ingest day even if we had an electrified ****ing machine.
Nope. IT is much worse than that.

[Fritz88]

Good news is, its do or die for Pioli.

If it were Carl, would he have fired Haley?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

No shit.

I find it comical that people think Jeff Fisher is some amazing coach while Billick is some slapdick.

Billick got lucky. He was never able to bring his offensive genius to Baltimore.

Hell, he picked Grbac to be his QB, and then Boller.

No.

[Bugeater]

Billick got lucky. He was never able to bring Randy Moss to Baltimore.

Hell, he picked Grbac to be his QB, and then Boller.

No.
Fixed that.

[boogblaster]

it will be a cluster .. no doubt .......

[Rasputin]

They said we get Luck.


sha right! If only we wearn't 5 games out of first place for Luck. Shiiit.

[BossChief]

Things we learned:

1) Haley didnt run Weis out of town. He left because he washed his hands of trying to develop Cassel at the halfway point and ALL of the credit for Cassels improvement was due to HALEY, NOT WEIS.

2) Romeo wants the job, but wants to hire his own coaches, if he doesn't get it he thinks whoever does should be able to hire his own guys as coaches.

3) Pioli was leaking rumors about Haley all year

4) The players were totally in Haleys corner.

[jd1020]

4) The players were totally in Haleys corner.

That's why one of the leading theories to Haley's untimely firing was Bowe going to Pioli about Haley.

[007]

That's why one of the leading theories to Haley's untimely firing was Bowe going to Pioli about Haley.

what? this is the first I have heard this one. Link?

[BigMeatballDave]

Billick got lucky. He was never able to bring his offensive genius to Baltimore.

Hell, he picked Grbac to be his QB, and then Boller.

No.

It's wasn't luck so much as it was a stellar D.

Luck never hurts though...

[BigMeatballDave]

That's why one of the leading theories to Haley's untimely firing was Bowe going to Pioli about Haley.

Huh?

[Hammock Parties]

Huh?

Haley was being a huge dick to Bowe during practice.

Bowe went to Pioli to complain.

[aturnis]

That's why one of the leading theories to Haley's untimely firing was Bowe going to Pioli about Haley.

Source. This is bullshit. I've been all over this shit and haven't heard any such thing.

[BossChief]

That's why one of the leading theories to Haley's untimely firing was Bowe going to Pioli about Haley.

Absolutely zero truth to that.

FFS Haley rode Bowe since day one in 2009 and Bowe has said over and over how much credit he gives to Haley for taking his game to the next level.

What sense does it make for Bowe to go to Pioli to rat out Haley about something that has been going on for 3 years now?

Just more BS thrown out there by Pioli to defame Haley.

[jd1020]

Huh?

There are reports that Haley went off on Bowe and then Bowe went to Pioli. Really not a good idea to do that to a player the team is trying to sign long term.

[BigMeatballDave]

Haley was being a huge dick to Bowe during practice.

Bowe went to Pioli to complain.

Interesting. Never saw anything about this.

[jd1020]

Absolutely zero truth to that.

FFS Haley rode Bowe since day one in 2009 and Bowe has said over and over how much credit he gives to Haley for taking his game to the next level.

What sense does it make for Bowe to go to Pioli to rat out Haley about something that has been going on for 3 years now?

Just more BS thrown out there by Pioli to defame Haley.

How exactly do you know there is 0 truth to that?

[FAX]

Huh?

There is a rumor floating about that Haley pissed off Bowe who ran to Pioli who told Haley to knock it off who told Bowe he was a pussy for crying to the principal.

Hard to know who was right in that deal. Bowe needs a new contract, so it's not a good time to alienate him. Unless you're Haley and you're still trying to coach the guy up. Pioli, on the other hand, might have considered the possibility that Bowe needs to listen to his coach and quit whining. Bowe, on the other hand, needs to regain his diva status if he's going to hold out for a big payday.

FAX

[BossChief]

Haley was being a huge dick to Bowe during practice.

Bowe went to Pioli to complain.

HMMMM

I have no doubts that Haley was being a dick to him in practice.

Bowe dropped a wide open touchdown pass.

AGAIN

I know you never played football, but when you screw up, you get yelled at and the more the problem exists, the worse it gets till the problem is fixed.

Its called coaching and Haley has rode Bowe since day one.

Do I think Bowe went right to Pioli to complain about it?

NOT

A

CHANCE

[FAX]

How exactly do you know there is 0 truth to that?

Difficult to prove a negative.

I've been trying for ... almost ... ever, with no luck. Zero. Nil. Nada. I can't prove it, though.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

I dunno, maybe Haley called Bowe a bunch of racist shit or something.

There is a line on that shit, especially to a guy who has arrived like Bowe.

And quite frankly, Haley has no right to do that when he's trotting out Palko, who basically makes it impossible for the wide receivers to have good games.

[BossChief]

There are reports that Haley went off on Bowe and then Bowe went to Pioli. Really not a good idea to do that to a player the team is trying to sign long term.

Some of you are the biggest pussies out there.

You act like the right way to coach a player in practice after a game in which he dropped a wide open touchdown is to make him a fresh batch of chocolate chip cookies and warm milk and give him the day off.

FFS, its football.

Do your job or you will get yelled at for it and worked harder so that you don't continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

[KCrockaholic]

Regardless of if there is any truth to the Bowe story, it is a ****ing FACT that the majority of the players in that locker room loved Haley.

We wouldn't have Steve Breaston on this team right now if not for Haley, and Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, and many more players have publicly expressed how much they liked having Todd as their coach.

[jd1020]

Some of you are the biggest pussies out there.

You act like the right way to coach a player in practice after a game in which he dropped a wide open touchdown is to make him a fresh batch of chocolate chip cookies and warm milk and give him the day off.

FFS, its football.

Do your job or you will get yelled at for it and worked harder so that you don't continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

My name is not Dwayne Bowe.

[Hammock Parties]

And BossChief continues to defend Haley even after he's fired....christ.

Well, I will say one thing, at least we now have more people hating Pioli.

[jd1020]

Regardless of if there is any truth to the Bowe story, it is a ****ing FACT that the majority of the players in that locker room loved Haley.

We wouldn't have Steve Breaston on this team right now if not for Haley, and Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, and many more players have publicly expressed how much they liked having Todd as their coach.

Just like no coach is going to throw the players under the bus, no players are going to publicly trash their boss.

Didn't Albert come out with a tweet right after Haley was fired that expressed his "love" for Haley?

[BossChief]

I dunno, maybe Haley called Bowe a bunch of racist shit or something.

There is a line on that shit, especially to a guy who has arrived like Bowe.

And quite frankly, Haley has no right to do that when he's trotting out Palko, who basically makes it impossible for the wide receivers to have good games.

Bullshit.

When a receiver drops passes like that one, wide open in the endzone...and it happens on many occasions, it deserves to have the heat turned up.

Coaches dont have anything to do with contracts and if you guys think he should just give Bowe a bunch of free passes because he is looking for a big free agent contract, you are dead wrong.

Its Piolis job to coddle guys and get them to sign long term....its the coaches job to push the players as hard as they can to get the most out of them.

[KCrockaholic]

Just like no coach is going to throw the players under the buss, no players are going to publicly trash their boss.

Didn't Albert come out with a tweet right that expressed his "love" for Haley?

Players wont say anything publicly if they have a problem with their coach.

And you have no clue what Albert was talking about in that tweet. Keep the assumptions to yourself.

[Hammock Parties]

Bullshit.

When a receiver drops passes like that one, wide open in the endzone...and it happens on many occasions, it deserves to have the heat turned up.

Uh, no one is even talking about that drop.

This happened well before the Jets game.

[jd1020]

Players wont say anything publicly if they have a problem with their coach.

And you have no clue what Albert was talking about in that tweet. Keep the assumptions to yourself.

I'm sure he was talking about the baby he was sitting for when he heard the news about Haley.

[BigRock]

The Haley/Bowe story is from Nick Wright. Even if there was some small reason to put stock into what that credibility-challenged toucan is saying about anything, and I'm unaware of any such reason, it shouldn't actually occur until Bowe is re-signed. Because that was an element of the story, that they were working on a new contract as this happened.

Incidentally, without naming names, Kent Babb certainly appeared to shoot down that story, saying that "despite what's being leaked" Haley "had an excellent relationship" with his players.

[KCrockaholic]

I'm sure he was talking about the baby he was sitting for when he heard the news about Haley.

Well considering Albert has already stated "NO!" that he was not referring to Haley then I'm going to go by that. Assume what you want though, because you're wrong.

[BossChief]

And BossChief continues to defend Haley even after he's fired....christ.

Well, I will say one thing, at least we now have more people hating Pioli.

IMO Haley made ONE major mistake in KC after he was hired.

Palko.

The news about him being the one that was coaching Cassel up (not Weis) is just another feather in the guys cap.

The guy is a quality coach that wasn't given the tools here to succeed.

Simple as that, again, IMO.

Within 5 years, he will be back in the saddle again as a head coach and will have learned a lot of lessons for his time as HC in KC.

Think of this for a second, guys.

What players has he failed to develop?

Where would his teams have been if he had a quarterback and the rest of the team was developing as it was?

I dont think there are many here that dont think this team would be a contender with a real franchise quarterback.

[TimeForWasp]

Not true, Mr. milkman. Not true at all.

We learned that it's better to act like you know what you don't know than to pretend you don't know what you know unless you know that what you don't know is something you should know.

FAX

I don't know about that. Do you know what I mean?

[Hammock Parties]

The news about him being the one that was coaching Cassel up (not Weis) is just another feather in the guys cap.


Coaching him up to the point where he threw 10 TDs and 14 INT in 11 games.

Cassel is beyond "coaching up." He had some success because he was handing it to Jamaal and playing a weak schedule.

That's it.

What players has he failed to develop?


That's not what he's judged on.

He may have developed some individuals but he sure couldn't win with them.

[jd1020]

IMO Haley made ONE major mistake in KC after he was hired.

Palko.

The news about him being the one that was coaching Cassel up (not Weis) is just another feather in the guys cap.

The guy is a quality coach that wasn't given the tools here to succeed.

Simple as that, again, IMO.

Within 5 years, he will be back in the saddle again as a head coach and will have learned a lot of lessons for his time as HC in KC.

Think of this for a second, guys.

What players has he failed to develop?

Where would his teams have been if he had a quarterback and the rest of the team was developing as it was?

I dont think there are many here that dont think this team would be a contender with a real franchise quarterback.

Lets just say Weis had absolutely nothing to do with Cassel, hard for me to believe. I'm not saying he didn't "wash his hands of Cassel" but he didn't simply ignore Cassel's shortcomings when drawing up and offensive game plan. How does Cassel succeeding last year pimp up Haley? If anything it makes me question him more. Everyone wanted to believe Cassel was forced on him and that he had no choice but to start him. Sounds more like he believed in him, just like he believed in Palko.

[BossChief]

Well considering Albert has already stated "NO!" that he was not referring to Haley then I'm going to go by that. Assume what you want though, because you're wrong.

One thing, though.

I dont think Albert was a fan of Haleys....Id even go so far as to say he disliked him.

Albert was a close friend of Brian Waters and Albert was the ONLY player that didnt participate in the first team activities when the lockout was lifted.

Even though he said that tweet wasnt directed at Haley, doesnt make it true...in fact, I think he did mean it to be directed towards Haley, but his agent probably told him to distance himself from the truth on it because it would give him a "problem player" label...similar to Jon Baldwins situation.

Who knows, but if I was gona place money on it, I would say that Albert doesnt really like Haley and was about the only one happy he was fired.

[cdcox]

milkman -- you deserve a better summary of "things learned".

The Pioli-Haley feud was real and it dated back to the Tyson Jackson pick. Haley was not sold. Neither Pioli or Haley ever got over it.

Supposedly, Weis decided Cassel was unsalvageable very early on and refused to invest time in him. Haley took over Cassel's mentoring and any "improvements" in Cassel's play last year were due to his influence. Then Weis got the credit for the "improvements" and Haley couldn't stand for that. Hence ended Weis' tenure in KC.

Supposedly, Pioli is still sold and committed to Cassel going forward.

So the upshot:

Pioli loves Weis.
Weis hated Cassel.
Pioli loves Cassel.
Haley loves Cassel.
Pioli won't listen to his guy Weis about Cassel.
Haley is on the same page as Pioli on Cassel, yet they openly war.
Obviously the whole franchise is dys-fucking-functional.
Meanwhile Clark fiddles while Rome burns.

[Fritz88]

Things we learned:

1) Haley didnt run Weis out of town. He left because he washed his hands of trying to develop Cassel at the halfway point and ALL of the credit for Cassels improvement was due to HALEY, NOT WEIS.

2) Romeo wants the job, but wants to hire his own coaches, if he doesn't get it he thinks whoever does should be able to hire his own guys as coaches.

3) Pioli was leaking rumors about Haley all year

4) The players were totally in Haleys corner.

How is 1) not running Weis out of town? Everyone knows that Haley isn't the most civil person to disagree with and so is Weis.

3) what's your proof? As much as I have issues with him, I don't think he'd resort to that. Haley made a clown out of himself. No need to leak anything. If there were any leaks, it should be the other way around.


4) Only DJ and Battle expressed such sentiments, IIRC. That doesn't equate all players.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KCrockaholic]

One thing, though.

I dont think Albert was a fan of Haleys....Id even go so far as to say he disliked him.

Albert was a close friend of Brian Waters and Albert was the ONLY player that didnt participate in the first team activities when the lockout was lifted.

Even though he said that tweet wasnt directed at Haley, doesnt make it true...in fact, I think he did mean it to be directed towards Haley, but his agent probably told him to distance himself from the truth on it because it would give him a "problem player" label...similar to Jon Baldwins situation.

Who knows, but if I was gona place money on it, I would say that Albert doesnt really like Haley and was about the only one happy he was fired.

Oh I'm not saying that maybe Albert didn't like Haley, but for anyone to assume his tweet was about Haley or a shot at Haley, are just assumptions that don't need to be made. Especially when he later stated multiple times that it was not about Haley.

Like I said. The "majority" of the players loved Haley. I've NEVER heard of a team that had every single player behind his HC 100%. It just doesn't happen.

[jd1020]

Oh I'm not saying that maybe Albert didn't like Haley, but for anyone to assume his tweet was about Haley or a shot at Haley, are just assumptions that don't need to be made. Especially when he later stated multiple times that it was not about Haley.

Like I said. The "majority" of the players loved Haley. I've NEVER heard of a team that had every single player behind his HC 100%. It just doesn't happen.

Saying that the "majority" of players loved Haley, based on a handful of the roster, is an assumption too...

Show me the "50+1" clamoring for Haley.

[KCrockaholic]

Saying that the "majority" of players loved Haley, based on a handful of the roster, is an assumption too...

I can only go by what I've gathered and quotes from players over time. And when guys like Flowers have spoken, they speak for the whole team when they'd say "He's like one of the guys".

[jd1020]

I can only go by what I've gathered and quotes from players over time. And when guys like Flowers have spoken, they speak for the whole team when they'd say "He's like one of the guys".

More assumptive bullshit.

[Fritz88]

The Pioli-Haley feud was real and it dated back to the Tyson Jackson pick. Haley was not sold. Neither Pioli or Haley ever got over it.

Supposedly, Weis decided Cassel was unsalvageable very early on and refused to invest time in him. Haley took over Cassel's mentoring and any "improvements" in Cassel's play last year were due to his influence. Then Weis got the credit for the "improvements" and Haley couldn't stand for that. Hence ended Weis' tenure in KC.



Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KCrockaholic]

More assumptive bullshit.

:) That's fine. But I'm not wrong on this topic of Haley. There's many things to pick him apart for, such as in game decisions. But being liked by the team was one of his stronger areas.

[BigMeatballDave]

Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
Posted via Mobile Device

2 words: Jamaal Charles

[BossChief]

Coaching him up to the point where he threw 10 TDs and 14 INT in 11 games.

Cassel is beyond "coaching up." He had some success because he was handing it to Jamaal and playing a weak schedule.

That's it.



That's not what he's judged on.

He may have developed some individuals but he sure couldn't win with them.
Haley did a fine job of polishing a turd in 2010. He made Cassel look like a NFL quarterback....that alone should tell you how good of a coach he is.

Its not his fault the player has severe limitations that make it nearly impossible for him to be coached up any further.

Come to think of it, a lot of this year makes more sense now.

Haley and Weis developed a gameplan for the year to limit how much Cassel had to do and let the rest of the team win games and brought Cassel along slowly...giving him more on his plate week after week.

This year, we all questioned "why are they putting the ball in Cassels hands so much"...well, thats the natural progression of developing a quarterback. Keep adding more and more until he has full command of the offense.

Haley was giving Cassel the opportunity to take his game to the next level and Cassel showed the world he was unable to do so.

Its not Haleys fault he was handcuffed to a incapable quarterback to lead a NFL team to playoff wins and a chance at a championship or 2.

Cassel put him in position to be able to take that step, Cassel just couldnt do it.
Lets just say Weis had absolutely nothing to do with Cassel, hard for me to believe. I'm not saying he didn't "wash his hands of Cassel" but he didn't simply ignore Cassel's shortcomings when drawing up and offensive game plan. How does Cassel succeeding last year pimp up Haley? If anything it makes me question him more. Everyone wanted to believe Cassel was forced on him and that he had no choice but to start him. Sounds more like he believed in him, just like he believed in Palko.

No doubt it was Weis that developed the "one read, quick throws" passing game to hide the fact that Cassel can not go through progressions and simply lacks the gene that makes quarterbacks test the defenses ability to defend the deep halves.

Haley had no choice but to "believe in Cassel" as you state.

Pioli never got anyone in there that Haley could make a change to when things got so bad.

NOBODY.

Thats why I say that Haleys ONLY major mistake here was Palko...who was seemingly HIS GUY.

...

Heres a sickening fact:

Pioli thought Cassel was his next Tom Brady and Haley thought Tyler Palko was his next Tony Romo.

I bet these guys are pretty damn good in practice, but when the real bullets start flying, they become clueless, drooling, mouth breathing retards.

I will always believe that Haley would have saved his job if he had just moved on to Stanzi after Palkos first game.

[ChiefBlitz]

How ****ed are we you ask? Well, we're so ****ing ****ed that we couldn't be more ****ed on our ****ingest day even if we had an electrified ****ing machine.

DON'T DRINK AND POST!

[jd1020]

2 words: Jamaal Charles

So if a RB was cause for Cassels success then he didn't progress at all. Weis just designed an offense to make the best of what he had and Haley doesn't deserve shit for Cassel because nothing changed.

[Hammock Parties]

So if a RB was cause for Cassels success then he didn't progress at all. Weis just designed an offense to make the best of what he had and Haley doesn't deserve shit for Cassel because nothing changed.

Haley probably made Cassel protect the ball better, maybe improved his footwork a little.

We scored because of Charles.

[Hammock Parties]

Haley did a fine job of polishing a turd in 2010. He made Cassel look like a NFL quarterback....that alone should tell you how good of a coach he is.


And then that coaching fell apart in 2011?

Sounds like bullshit to me.

Cassel won 11 games and looked like an NFL QB in 2008.

[BigMeatballDave]

So if a RB was cause for Cassels success they he didn't progress at all. Weis just designed an offense to make the best of what he had and Haley doesn't deserve shit for Cassel because nothing changed.

You can only mask a turd so much.

Jc is the type of player Defenses have to gameplan for.

[cdcox]

Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
Posted via Mobile Device

All of your questions can be answered by the realization that at his core, Cassel is a lousy QB. Cassel had a few good games against a weak schedule. It wasn't by accident that I put quotes around "improvements".

Charles Robinson's tweets are the most parsimonious rumors/speculation/reading-between-the-lines story that could explain all of the stupidity we've seen surrounding this franchise. Not to mention that he has a ton of credibility. The only guy that has a clue about QB play (Weis) thinks Cassel is not worth his time.

[Hammock Parties]

I will always believe that Haley would have saved his job if he had just moved on to Stanzi after Palkos first game.

LMAO

I will be interested to see what you say when Haley is coaching WRs in 5 years.

[BossChief]

Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
Posted via Mobile Device
Im gonna go ahead and believe one of the most rock solid sources in the media over your opinion.

Haley coached Cassel up after Weis quit on the project.

That info also makes me wonder if Weis really did want Clausen and that him quitting on Cassel that early was a sign that the team needed to draft or trade for somebody to replace him with.

Watch Weis get back into the NFL after another year and for him to make a trade for Jimmy to be his QB.

Stranger things have happened.
So if a RB was cause for Cassels success then he didn't progress at all. Weis just designed an offense to make the best of what he had and Haley doesn't deserve shit for Cassel because nothing changed.

If you really believe this, you are one of the most "football stupid" posters here.

It was against bad defenses, but Cassel looked really good during part of 2010.

Guys like The Bad Guy talked about him as if he was in the MVP race.

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't care who gets credit for it now.

Think about the 1st 2 games of the 2010 season. Remember how shitty Matt was? Wtf was Weis doing then?

[BigRock]

Pioli loves Weis.
Weis hated Cassel.
Pioli loves Cassel.
Haley loves Cassel.
Pioli won't listen to his guy Weis about Cassel.
Haley is on the same page as Pioli on Cassel, yet they openly war.
Obviously the whole franchise is dys-fucking-functional.
Meanwhile Clark fiddles while Rome burns.

I don't understand where anyone got "Haley loved Cassel" in anything Charles Robinson was tweeting yesterday. For that matter, Robinson has since said that "Weis hated Cassel" isn't an accurate summary either, pointing out that Pioli never would have hired Weis if he didn't think Cassel could be great.

Robinson said that Haley and Weis disagreed on Cassel's development. Whatever Haley wanted to get from Cassel, Weis didn't think Cassel was capable of it. Presumably, what Haley wanted was how Cassel was playing down the stretch last year, since Robinson says that was the direct result of Haley working with him. What Weis wanted to do is anyone's guess.

None of that translates into "Haley loved Cassel". Cassel is the quarterback. The team and Haley's career were tied to Cassel's performance. Of course Haley's going to want to get everything he can out of him.

The only thing that seems clear from Robinson's tweets is that Weis came in here and didn't really give a shit. Rock Chalk~!

[jd1020]

If you really believe this, you are one of the most "football stupid" posters here.

It was against bad defenses, but Cassel looked really good during part of 2010.

Guys like The Bad Guy talked about him as if he was in the MVP race.

Cassel was good against bad defenses, coincidentally the same fucking opponents, in 2008.

So what changed?

[BossChief]

Haley probably made Cassel protect the ball better, maybe improved his footwork a little.

We scored because of Charles.
true
And then that coaching fell apart in 2011?

Sounds like bullshit to me.

Cassel won 11 games and looked like an NFL QB in 2008.
Its not that it "fell apart" its that Haley was asking Cassel to take that next step.

Haley is smart enough to know that you arent gonna win big playoff games with the gameplan we had in 2010....Baltimore reinforced that...Cassel was put in position to take the next step in his development and showed the world he was incapable of doing so.

Dont you remember us all talking about how Cassel was being asked to do more at the start of the year and was failing at it?

I sure as hell do.

Cassel is costing really good coaches their jobs left and right since 2009.

Hopefully, that ends.

I have some level of hope that Pioli is gonna make a smoke screen to make it seem as if we have no interest in drafting a quarterback.

I doubt he brings any of the top guys in for a private workout (only the guys that are looked at as late round picks), but brings in every single linemen, linebacker, running back and safety thats thought of as a first round pick.

Throw everyone off the scent so teams dont think they have to leapfrog us to draft their guy.

Why, you might ask?

Because thats pretty close to what I would do.

Then, BOOM goes the dynamite and Pioli becomes the golden God of KC.

(I can dream, cant I?)
LMAO

I will be interested to see what you say when Haley is coaching WRs in 5 years.

If that happens, I will have no problem admitting I am wrong.

Never have.

Now, when Haley does as I say....I fully expect you to say this conversation never happened and I will be too lazy to look it up.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO

Well, I will give you your due if Haley even coordinates a top 10 offense in this league again.

I think he probably got screwed over here a little bit, but that he was never going to be more than an average head coach.

For the record I always liked the guy, but I used to like Gunther, too.

[BossChief]

Cassel was good against bad defenses, coincidentally the same fucking opponents, in 2008.

So what changed?

I dont even know what you're asking here.

I said it was mostly against bad defenses...

I can also say that I watched 11 of those 2008 games of his in NE (on NFL replay) and had my eyes totally wide open as to his strengths and weaknesses well before he was traded for.

The same strengths and weaknesses he still has to this day.

[Hammock Parties]

Its not that it "fell apart" its that Haley was asking Cassel to take that next step.

Haley is smart enough to know that you arent gonna win big playoff games with the gameplan we had in 2010....Baltimore reinforced that...Cassel was put in position to take the next step in his development and showed the world he was incapable of doing so.

I don't buy that.

See the first half of the San Diego game as proof.

[JCharles1981]

We learned that.....

1. the moment our team ends a season by winning their division, Team Personnel lets the offensive coordinator go and hires someone with little to no experience in his place.

2. Scott Pioli is Clark Hunt's b*tch.

3. our streak of signing career back up QB's may never end.

4. King Carl is capable of putting the Chiefs in the playoffs year after year, but Pioli isn't.

5. you don't hire a guy to be Head Coach just because he was offensive coordinator for a Superbowl team that lost. Plus, let's not forget that Haley made himself both HC and OC his first year with the Chiefs after firing the OC that was brought in prior to the 2009 preseason.

[BossChief]

LMAO

Well, I will give you your due if Haley even coordinates a top 10 offense in this league again.

I think he probably got screwed over here a little bit, but that he was never going to be more than an average head coach.

For the record I always liked the guy, but I used to like Gunther, too.

People forget that Haley was a legit finalist for the coach of the year award for 2010.

Looking back, he probably deserved to get the award knowing he was responsible for Cassel.

I will always feel the guy would have been a top 5 HC in the league if he was given a quarterback he could run his offense with.

We really screwed up by firing him.

[Fritz88]

Im gonna go ahead and believe one of the most rock solid sources in the media over your opinion.

Haley coached Cassel up after Weis quit on the project.

That info also makes me wonder if Weis really did want Clausen and that him quitting on Cassel that early was a sign that the team needed to draft or trade for somebody to replace him with.

Watch Weis get back into the NFL after another year and for him to make a trade for Jimmy to be his QB.

Stranger things have happened.


If you really believe this, you are one of the most "football stupid" posters here.

It was against bad defenses, but Cassel looked really good during part of 2010.

Guys like The Bad Guy talked about him as if he was in the MVP race.

So if a rock soild source throws up shit, its infallible truth?

Ill give Charles credit and say he's 80% spot on some of what he said. But to draw the conclusion that it was Haley who got the most out of Cassel last year by developing him is horseshit.

If its anything, its an indictment of how shitty of a coach Haley is, because if he improved Cassel, it would have carried on to this season. Instead, Cassel regressed from the moment Weis announced he was leaving. I am going to consider this more logical than some tweets.
Posted via Mobile Device

[WhiteWhale]

We learned that.....

1. the moment our team ends a season by winning their division, Team Personnel lets the offensive coordinator go and hires someone with little to no experience in his place.

2. Scott Pioli is Clark Hunt's b*tch.

3. our streak of signing career back up QB's may never end.

4. King Carl is capable of putting the Chiefs in the playoffs year after year, but Pioli isn't.

5. you don't hire a guy to be Head Coach just because he was offensive coordinator for a Superbowl team that lost. Plus, let's not forget that Haley made himself both HC and OC his first year with the Chiefs after firing the OC that was brought in prior to the 2009 preseason.

King Carl wasn't capable of taking a shit without Marty.

[Hammock Parties]

People forget that Haley was a legit finalist for the coach of the year award for 2010.

Looking back, he probably deserved to get the award knowing he was responsible for Cassel.

I will always feel the guy would have been a top 5 HC in the league if he was given a quarterback he could run his offense with.

We really screwed up by firing him.

So what do you blame for being blown out 5 times a year?

That's a really bad trend.

I can only hypothesize that Haley's gameplanning had a fatal flaw.

[BossChief]

Let me also say that I give a lot of the credit for the quality of the last two drafts to Haley, more so than Pioli.

Haleys been around talent evaluators and scouts since he was a kid and his dad built the great Steeler teams of the 70s.

I dont think its any coincidence that the 2009 draft was so horrible and then the next two were pretty damn good. Watch what happens over the next few years as those guys come into their own...I think the 2011 draft will end up being the best this team has had in decades.

Id LOVE to hear who Haley wanted from that 2009 draft....I bet it was Orakpo (my preference)

I hate to say it, but I think we may be in for another "doozy" in 2012 and whatever team Haley goes to will have solid drafts.

[WhiteWhale]

Players wont say anything publicly if they have a problem with their coach.

And you have no clue what Albert was talking about in that tweet. Keep the assumptions to yourself.

The hell are you guys talking about?

Did any of you listen to Tiki Barber both while he was with the Giants and after he retired? All he did was shit talk the coach in public. Hell, half the team complained about him all the time. They seemed to stop after 2007. Not sure why....

[BossChief]

So what do you blame for being blown out 5 times a year?

That's a really bad trend.

I can only hypothesize that Haley's gameplanning had a fatal flaw.

CASSEL is a fatal flaw and every DC in the NFL knows it.

Berry
Charles
Moeaki

McGraw
Piscatelli
Washington

Romeos scheme when he isnt being aggressive.

[BossChief]

The hell are you guys talking about?

Did any of you listen to Tiki Barber both while he was with the Giants and after he retired? All he did was shit talk the coach in public. Hell, half the team complained about him all the time. They seemed to stop after 2007. Not sure why....

:facepalm:

Tiki is a mental case and shouldn't be brought up to reinforce any stance.

Now, choke yourself.

WITH MY HAND, NUMBNUTS!!

[Hammock Parties]

CASSEL is a fatal flaw and every DC in the NFL knows it.

Berry
Charles
Moeaki

McGraw
Piscatelli
Washington

Romeos scheme when he isnt being aggressive.

The last six names aren't an excuse, because the blowouts happened every year he was here.

If Cassel is truly the reason for all these blowouts, and he is retained, then we'll see it again next season.

I don't really buy it. We would come out in some of these games and just get slaughtered from the get-go on both sides of the ball.

[WhiteWhale]

:facepalm:

Tiki is a mental case and shouldn't be brought up to reinforce any stance.

Now, choke yourself.

WITH MY HAND, NUMBNUTS!!

It's not good for the career, but it happens. Player do in fact bitch about coaches.

Yeah, most of them are 'head cases'. Tony bitched about our coaches all the time. So did Larry Johnson.

[Titty Meat]

People forget that Haley was a legit finalist for the coach of the year award for 2010.

Looking back, he probably deserved to get the award knowing he was responsible for Cassel.

I will always feel the guy would have been a top 5 HC in the league if he was given a quarterback he could run his offense with.

We really screwed up by firing him.

You probably thought the confederates would have done a great job with the country too.

[Fritz88]

We really screwed up by firing him.

Holy monkey shit.
Man crush on Haley confirmed.

Haley was a Fucking inept coach. He will NOT amount to anything as a HC in this league.

He has fundamental issues thy can't be fixed.

The first of which is believing in Casshole and starting Calabolo over Stanzi.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

You probably thought the confederates would have done a great job with the country too.

LMAO

Post of the fucking week!

[WhiteWhale]

You probably thought the confederates would have done a great job with the country too.

The confederates never attempted to seize the country. :hmmm:

[JCharles1981]

King Carl wasn't capable of taking a shit without Marty.

True that. Maybe Lamar Hunt should have fired Carl the same year Schottenheimer was fired. But, wait, Lamar actually liked Carl Peterson, so that is why it didn't happen.

[ChiefsCountry]

True that. Maybe Lamar Hunt should have fired Carl the same year Schottenheimer was fired. But, wait, Lamar actually liked Carl Peterson, so that is why it didn't happen.

Marty was never fired from the Chiefs.

[Titty Meat]

All Pioli will have to do is draft a QB in the first round and nobody will give a **** about Todd Haley. I'm sure signing Becht, Palko, and whatever broke dick Haley coached was all 100% Pioli. Dumbass cut Jarred Gaither too. I thought both should be fired but to be fair it wasn't Pioli dressing like a homeless bum cursing up a storm infront of a national audience. Clark was at the game Sunday and that team had lost control firing Haley was absolutely the correct call.

[JCharles1981]

Marty was never fired from the Chiefs.

I almost have an itching feeling he would have been had he not freely resigned instead.

[BossChief]

The last six names aren't an excuse, because the blowouts happened every year he was here.

If Cassel is truly the reason for all these blowouts, and he is retained, then we'll see it again next season.

I don't really buy it. We would come out in some of these games and just get slaughtered from the get-go on both sides of the ball.

You go to all these lengths to hate on Haley, but want him replaced by Jeff Fisher?

Really?

Back to my reply...

There are only 3 or 4 instances of that and they happen to every coach that doesn't have a good quarterback.

Most of the games got away from us in the second half after being very competitive in the first half.

Give this team Charles and Berry and 3 of the blowouts this year probably dont happen.

Give this team a real quarterback and none of them happen.

[BigMeatballDave]

You probably thought the confederates would have done a great job with the country too.

Yes. Thanksgiving would consist of chitterlings and grits...

[Hammock Parties]

Give this team Charles and Berry and 3 of the blowouts this year probably dont happen.


Why?

WITH Charles and Berry, last year we were blown out by:

Denver
Oakland
Baltimore
San Diego

As for Fisher, it's pretty simple:

He wins.

I'm of the belief that there is no "perfect" or "elite" head coach.

There are good coaches who get paired up with elite quarterbacks and then they go and win Super Bowls.

If we had Fisher, and we drafted a guy who is going to multiple Pro Bowls, I believe we'd be a contender. Simple as that.

Get a good coach who takes you to the playoffs consistently, get a QB to win in the playoffs.

[BossChief]

All Pioli will have to do is draft a QB in the first round and nobody will give a **** about Todd Haley. I'm sure signing Becht, Palko, and whatever broke dick Haley coached was all 100% Pioli. Dumbass cut Jarred Gaither too. I thought both should be fired but to be fair it wasn't Pioli dressing like a homeless bum cursing up a storm infront of a national audience. Clark was at the game Sunday and that team had lost control firing Haley was absolutely the correct call.

A good quarterback can make any head coach look really good.

I will always think Dungy was a mirror image of Herm..but with Peyton Manning its hard to see that.

If he is gonna give the job to Romeo or some other cronie, he better draft the right guy in the first round...or its gonna be his ass on the chopping block in 2 years and the next GM will be brought in.

Clark wants a franchise quarterback....he said as much before Pioli was brought in...

Time for Pioli to get the owner what he wants.

Just, please dont let that guy be Landry Blackledge.

[WhiteWhale]

Marty was never fired from the Chiefs.

I'm still of the impression that Marty resigned in lieu of being fired.

You know, because Carl respected him and he respected Carl.

AJ Smith fired him and probably would have thrown himself a roman style triumph down the middle of San Diego if he could have. They hated each other.

[Hammock Parties]

A good quarterback can make any head coach look really good.


Manning didn't do much for Caldwell last year.

[JCharles1981]

Manning didn't do much for Caldwell last year.

At least the Colts were winning last year. It's like they cried tears in their beers and quit trying once they discovered that Manning would be out for the entire length of this season. So, they did have a valid excuse for sucking this year. The Chiefs were sucking long before Cassell got injured. I am a die-hard Chiefs fan, but you can't escape the obvious.

[WhiteWhale]

Why?

WITH Charles and Berry, last year we were blown out by:

Denver
Oakland
Baltimore
San Diego

As for Fisher, it's pretty simple:

He wins.

I'm of the belief that there is no "perfect" or "elite" head coach.

There are good coaches who get paired up with elite quarterbacks and then they go and win Super Bowls.

If we had Fisher, and we drafted a guy who is going to multiple Pro Bowls, I believe we'd be a contender. Simple as that.

Get a good coach who takes you to the playoffs consistently, get a QB to win in the playoffs.

Fisher has finished 8-8 or worse ten times.

He's had 6 winning seasons.

There was nothing consistent about his teams. They go 12-4 one season, then 6-10 the next. We must really LOVE Denver because we apparently want a clone of their head coach.

[BossChief]

Why?

WITH Charles and Berry, last year we were blown out by:

Denver
Oakland
Baltimore
San Diego

As for Fisher, it's pretty simple:

He wins.

I'm of the belief that there is no "perfect" or "elite" head coach.

There are good coaches who get paired up with elite quarterbacks and then they go and win Super Bowls.

If we had Fisher, and we drafted a guy who is going to multiple Pro Bowls, I believe we'd be a contender. Simple as that.

Get a good coach who takes you to the playoffs consistently, get a QB to win in the playoffs.You guys can say what you want about Vince Young and the owner forcing him on Fisher....the truth is that team didnt win until they started Vince.

His rookie year, they were garbage and Vince came in about the halfway point and almost won every game and took the team to the playoffs.

Shortly after, Fisher benched him and it didnt take ong till the team was right back in the crapper...looking a top 5 pick in the face again till the owner told Fisher to play his draft pick...amazing that the team went on another winning run.

I dont know how high the level of hatred will go if we draft a top ten QB and the HC repeatedly finds reasons to bench him.

...

I dont care what some of you believe, but Josh McDaniels cheated to win that game. Dustin Colquit reinforced what I said with his own words.

Oakland won that game in the trenches...their DL DOMINATED our OL all game.

We were actually beating Baltimore right before the end of the first half till they remembered that Romeos defense fails to cover tight ends and Jamaal Charles got hurt.

[JCharles1981]

I'm of the belief that there is no "perfect" or "elite" head coach.

There are good coaches who get paired up with elite quarterbacks and then they go and win Super Bowls.

If we had Fisher, and we drafted a guy who is going to multiple Pro Bowls, I believe we'd be a contender. Simple as that.

Get a good coach who takes you to the playoffs consistently, get a QB to win in the playoffs.

Jeff Fischer is no Jimmie Johnson or Don Schula, just so we're clear on that. What is the difference between Fischer, Johnson, and Schula? Johnson and Schula have won at least 3 Superbowls each, Fischer has won none.

[BossChief]

Manning didn't do much for Caldwell last year.

how is he doing without him?

[threebag]

I guess none of the other threads contained any of this information.

[JCharles1981]

Oakland won that game in the trenches...their DL DOMINATED our OL all game.



Then explain why their offense did jack sh*t against the Chiefs' defense then?

[Hammock Parties]

Fisher has finished 8-8 or worse ten times.

He's had 6 winning seasons.

There was nothing consistent about his teams. They go 12-4 one season, then 6-10 the next. We must really LOVE Denver because we apparently want a clone of their head coach.

Here is what Fisher did when he had consistent QB play:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m29zza.jpg

That is McNair's prime right there. After 2003 he started to fall off, got hurt, etc.

Then the Titans were forced to draft Vince Young by their meddlesome owner and shit went south.

Once they recovered from that, Fisher got them back to the playoffs with a different QB, but Collins wasn't taking that team anywhere. If Fisher had drafted Jay Cutler like he wanted to, maybe that team does something.

If we had the right QB here with Fisher, I think we would be a serious contender.

[BossChief]

I would rather have us hire Romeo Crennel than hire Jeff Fisher.

It took a miracle and a blown call for his team to have ever even gotten to the superbowl.

Other than that, he was a poor mans Marty Schottenheimer.

You know who I think would be a fantastic hire (if he wasnt old as dirt)?

Dick Vermiel.

Think of Vermiels offense with this defense to back it up.

I bet Dick could make Stanzi a rockstar...a 23 year old Trent Green would be nice to have.

[jd1020]

The one thing I like about Fisher is that he's a defensive minded coach.

A defensive coach and a QB is the way to go, imo. How much meaningful coaching do you think the Patriots, Packers, and Saints offense is getting?

[JCharles1981]

If Fisher had drafted Jay Cutler like he wanted to, maybe that team does something.



What has Jay Cutler done so far in the NFL? He got cut from the Broncos after 2 or 3 seasons, and got injured halfway through this season while with the Bears. If Fisher can't succeed with guys like Vince Young or Steve McNair, then Jay Cutler wouldn't have faired much better.

[Hammock Parties]

Do you realize who knocked Fisher out of the playoffs during McNair's prime:

1999 - The Super Bowl champs (STL)
2000 - The Super Bowl champs (BAL)
2002 - The Super Bowl runner up (OAK)
2003 - The Super Bowl bowl champs (NE)

If Jeff Fisher doesn't run into:

1. The greatest offense of all time
2. The greatest defense of all time
3. The greatest QB of all time

He probably wins a SB already.

[BossChief]

Then explain why their offense did jack sh*t against the Chiefs' defense then?

Do you realize who knocked Fisher out of the playoffs during McNair's prime:

1999 - The Super Bowl champs (STL)
2000 - The Super Bowl champs (BAL)
2002 - The Super Bowl runner up (OAK)
2003 - The Super Bowl bowl champs (NE)

If Jeff Fisher doesn't run into:

1. The greatest offense of all time
2. The greatest defense of all time
3. The greatest QB of all time

He probably wins a SB already.

you could probably say the same thing about Marty and Marty never had a quarterback worth a shit like Fisher had.

Should we bring back Marty?

[Hammock Parties]

It's not even like McNair was that great of a QB.

He basically had three good seasons his entire career.

Give Fisher someone like Brees, Rivers or Roethlisberger and watch the magic happen.

[Hammock Parties]

you could probably say the same thing about Marty and Marty never had a quarterback worth a shit like Fisher had.

Should we bring back Marty?

If Marty had not been fired he probably wins a SB with Rivers.

I mean think about it...a Marty team with the #1 offense.

AJ Smith is a retard.

[FAX]

It's not even like McNair was that great of a QB.

He basically had three good seasons his entire career.

Give Fisher someone like Brees, Rivers or Roethlisberger and watch the magic happen.

ROFL

God.

FAX

[JCharles1981]

You know who I think would be a fantastic hire (if he wasnt old as dirt)?

Dick Vermiel.

Think of Vermiels offense with this defense (Romeo Crennel) to back it up.

I bet Dick could make Stanzi a rockstar...a 23 year old Trent Green would be nice to have.

I have to respectfully disagree. The Chiefs have been blown out 5 times this year, and it wasn't all the offense's fault. If the defense were at the top of their game during all 5 of those same games, I imagine they would have only lost by a couple of TD's. Crennel still has some kinks to work out before anyone can assume he can get them back up to the level of the Gunther Cunningham defense of the late 90's.

As far as Dick Vermeil, during his 5 year run as the Chiefs' HC, he was primarily offensive-minded and did little to improve the defense (the defense sucked during the Vermeil years), which would explain why 4 out of those 5 years the team failed to make the playoffs, three of them being with losing or un-winning (8-8) win-loss records. Honestly, the Head Coaching is not the problem overall, it's the entire Chiefs' personnel that needs revamping since they have yet to obtain both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense in the same season.

[JCharles1981]

If Marty had not been fired he probably wins a SB with Rivers.

I mean think about it...a Marty team with the #1 offense.



Sorry, but you're wrong. Marty is incapable of getting any team to the Superbowl. His career strategy was nearly the same every year:

1. Start a career back-up QB.
2. Lead his team to a 10-6 record or better.
3. Choke in the playoffs.

He did this with the Cleveland Browns, Kansas City Chiefs, and San Diego Chargers. There is no woulda, coulda, shoulda with him even if he did get the chance to work with Rivers. By the way, Rivers is a whiny baby and is not ready for the Superbowl yet. Let's face it, his chances of actually getting a team to the Superbowl are as good as Marv Levy's chances are of actually getting his team to win a Superbowl.

[BigMeatballDave]

If Marty had not been fired he probably wins a SB with Rivers.

I mean think about it...a Marty team with the #1 offense.

AJ Smith is a retard.

LMAO Marty and Superbowl should not be in the same sentence

[BossChief]

I have to respectfully disagree. The Chiefs have been blown out 5 times this year, and it wasn't all the offense's fault. If the defense were at the top of their game during all 5 of those same games, I imagine they would have only lost by a couple of TD's. Crennel still has some kinks to work out before anyone can assume he can get them back up to the level of the Gunther Cunningham defense of the late 90's.

As far as Dick Vermeil, during his 5 year run as the Chiefs' HC, he was primarily offensive-minded and did little to improve the defense (Al Saunders was overrated as a DC if you ask me), which would explain why 4 out of those 5 years the team failed to make the playoffs, three of them being with losing or un-winning (8-8) win-loss records. Honestly, the Head Coaching is not the problem overall, it's the entire Chiefs' personnel that needs revamping since they have yet to obtain both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense in the same season.

How do these people find their way here?

FFS

:facepalm:

[FAX]

Al Saunders was our DC?

I think you have him confused with Thomas Edison.

FAX

[BossChief]

Al Saunders was our DC?

I think you have him confused with Thomas Edison.

FAX

Hindsight is 50/50 Mr. FAX.

[JCharles1981]

How do these people find their way here?

FFS

:facepalm:

I could ask the same about you since you only paid attention to the bolded sentence you decided to reply to while ignoring the meaningful points of my post.

[jd1020]

It's not even like McNair was that great of a QB.

He basically had three good seasons his entire career.

Give Fisher someone like Brees, Rivers or Roethlisberger and watch the magic happen.

Here's my question. I like the idea of Fisher since he's a defensive guy. But, isn't he a 4-3 guy? You are pretty vocal about switching to a 4-3. Why do you specifically want Fisher so bad?

[BigMeatballDave]

Is that a DCS mult?

Next he'll tell us what a good offensive lineman Saleamua was...

[JCharles1981]

Is that a DCS mult?

Next he'll tell us what a good offensive lineman Saleamua was...

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

[BossChief]

I could ask the same about you since you only paid attention to the bolded sentence you decided to reply to while ignoring the meaningful points of my post.

I dont know where this defense would be without Bowe causing Havoc on opposing passers.

[WhiteWhale]

Here is what Fisher did when he had consistent QB play:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m29zza.jpg

That is McNair's prime right there. After 2003 he started to fall off, got hurt, etc.

Then the Titans were forced to draft Vince Young by their meddlesome owner and shit went south.

Once they recovered from that, Fisher got them back to the playoffs with a different QB, but Collins wasn't taking that team anywhere. If Fisher had drafted Jay Cutler like he wanted to, maybe that team does something.

If we had the right QB here with Fisher, I think we would be a serious contender.

I actually think McNair and the whole team was held back by his ultra conservative offense. It's just too much 'Marty' for me. I don't need to deal with that ever again.

Opinions and assholes I suppose.

[Hammock Parties]

Here's my question. I like the idea of Fisher since he's a defensive guy. But, isn't he a 4-3 guy? You are pretty vocal about switching to a 4-3. Why do you specifically want Fisher so bad?

Because he's a winner. He went 13-3 with KERRY COLLINS.

As for defense, I think Fisher would be smart enough to come in here and realize we're set up for the 3-4 and Romeo is doing a fine job running it. He's not a defensive moron. He cut his teeth under Buddy Ryan.

[JCharles1981]

I dont know where this defense would be without Bowe causing Havoc on opposing passers.

I should add that I won't rely on the advice of a guy whose profile tagline suggests to give up on Tony Moeaki after a season ending injury in just his second year in the NFL. That'd be like Jim Kelly retiring early just because the Buffalo Bills placekicker Scott Norwood couldn't convert a field goal to defeat the Giants in Superbowl XXV.

[WhiteWhale]

If Marty had not been fired he probably wins a SB with Rivers.

I mean think about it...a Marty team with the #1 offense.

AJ Smith is a retard.

JFC, did you watch KC lose in the post season under Marty?

Have you watched Rivers in the playoffs?

That's like an atomic bomb of choke waiting to go off. Two of Rivers three playoff wins are against Manning and Dungy. The other one being, of course, Jeff Fisher's Titans. :D

[FAX]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

No.

I think it's you.

FAX

[BigMeatballDave]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

LOL WUT

[BigMeatballDave]

Because he's a winner. He went 13-3 with KERRY COLLINS.

As for defense, I think Fisher would be smart enough to come in here and realize we're set up for the 3-4 and Romeo is doing a fine job running it. He's not a defensive moron. He cut his teeth under Buddy Ryan.

Haley went 10-6 with MATT CASSEL

[Hammock Parties]

JFC, did you watch KC lose in the post season under Marty?

Have you watched Rivers in the playoffs?

That's like an atomic bomb of choke waiting to go off. Two of Rivers three playoff wins are against Manning and Dungy.

Marty and Rivers lost to the Patriots.

That's not choking.

Rivers got to an AFCC in just his 2nd year starting. He's headed for greatness once Norv is out.

I'm praying Fisher and Rivers don't team up because that's trouble for the rest of the division.

[WhiteWhale]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

Showtime.

[JCharles1981]

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me. If you weren't trolling, you wouldn't be firing personal shots at me. I guess being allowed to have an open opinion about the Chiefs doesn't pay off here. Lame!

[FAX]

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me.

Actually, that's how I survived when I first came here, Mr. JCharles1981. I eventually decided that the only way I would ever fit in was if I started creating the most asinine, moronic, and blatantly imbecilic posts imaginable. Then, after awhile, I was accepted.

So far, I think you're doing great.

FAX

[JCharles1981]

Actually, that's how I survived when I first came here, Mr. JCharles1981. I eventually decided that the only way I would ever fit in was if I started creating the most asinine, moronic, and blatantly imbecilic posts imaginable. Then, after awhile, I was accepted.

So far, I think you're doing great.

FAX

In other words, don't take personal offense to insults thrown at me. Just move on like they don't bother me, and people will hate me less eventually?

[BossChief]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.
ROFL

This guy didnt even get the Saleamua reference....he went along with it like Dan WAS an offensive linemen.

Thats all one needs to know about him to write off his takes.
Because he's a winner. He went 13-3 with KERRY COLLINS.

As for defense, I think Fisher would be smart enough to come in here and realize we're set up for the 3-4 and Romeo is doing a fine job running it. He's not a defensive moron. He cut his teeth under Buddy Ryan.
1) Marty took Steve Bono to a 13-3 record, too. CROWN HIS ASS!!!

2) Buddy Ryans defense is the polar opposite of Crennels 3-4 cover 2.

I would LOVE to have Crennel here the next 10 years if he did 2 things

1. hire a legit OC (like Norv Turner)

2. be more aggressive on defense and mold the defense to fit the strengths of its players, not force the players to fit your outdated scheme. When he did that, the defense came alive.
I should add that I won't rely on the advice of a guy whose profile tagline suggests to give up on Tony Moeaki after a season ending injury in just his second year in the NFL. That'd be like Jim Kelly retiring early just because the Buffalo Bills placekicker Scott Norwood couldn't convert a field goal to defeat the Giants in Superbowl XXV.

This whole post is straight up retarded.

[WhiteWhale]

Marty and Rivers lost to the Patriots.

That's not choking.

Rivers got to an AFCC in just his 2nd year starting. He's headed for greatness once Norv is out.

I'm praying Fisher and Rivers don't team up because that's trouble for the rest of the division.

Marty and Brees lost to Herm's jets.

Brees > Rivers. Marty wasn't gonna win won with Rivers either.

I don't like the philosophy. I got enough of ultra conservative coaching from Haley.

Rivers is a damn good QB, but he tends to play poorly in the post season. Blame Norv if you want, but players play. In Brees and Marty's only loss in the post-season... Brees was outstanding. He threw for 300 yards and 2 TD's. Rivers was horrible.

[BossChief]

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me. If you weren't trolling, you wouldn't be firing personal shots at me. I guess being allowed to have an open opinion about the Chiefs doesn't pay off here. Lame!

www.chiefscoalition.com

GO HOME!!!

[JCharles1981]

This whole post is straight up retarded.

I guess when you were born retarded, your mother had the doctor slap you to see if he could knock the retarded out. Looks like it didn't work.

[BossChief]

Actually, that's how I survived when I first came here, Mr. JCharles1981. I eventually decided that the only way I would ever fit in was if I started creating the most asinine, moronic, and blatantly imbecilic posts imaginable. Then, after awhile, I was accepted.

So far, I think you're doing great.

FAX

HOLY SHIT

ROFL

FAX is taking the gloves off, guys.

[FAX]

In other words, don't take personal offense to insults thrown at me. Just move on like they don't bother me, and people will hate me less eventually?

Yep.

That's what I did. When I saw a stupid post, I went double stupid. When I saw a dimwitted, asinine statement that somebody had pulled from their ass, I posted the most damn dimwitted and doltish thing that mankind has ever attempted to read since the invention of the English language.

Then, eventually, people realized that I fit right in.

So far, I think you may have a darn good shot at N00b (sp?) Of The Year.

FAX

[JCharles1981]

www.chiefscoalition.com

GO HOME!!!

I am home, punky mcnasTERD.

[BossChief]

I guess when you were born retarded, your mother had the doctor slap you to see if he could knock the retarded out. Looks like it didn't work.

Oh, my.

LMAO

YA SURE DID GET ME.

[JCharles1981]

Yep.

That's what I did. When I saw a stupid post, I went double stupid. When I saw a dimwitted, asinine statement that somebody had pulled from their ass, I posted the most damn dimwitted and doltish thing that mankind has ever attempted to read since the invention of the English language.

Then, eventually, people realized that I fit right in.

So far, I think you may have a darn good shot at N00b (sp?) Of The Year.

FAX

Ha! That'd be my first real trophy since I was like.....5.

[BossChief]

I am home, punky mcnasTERD.

seriously, click the link and start an account there.

You will like it a lot more than this place.

Give it a shot...

BYE

[FAX]

Ha! That'd be my first real trophy since I was like.....5.

Yeah, I know it doesn't seem like much now, but it gets worse.

I won the NOTY one time and I was afraid to tell anybody for a long, long time.

FAX

[Fritz88]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

Hahahaahaha. Some Chiefs fan here would strangle other Chiefs fans with a different opinion.

Welcome to CP

You remind me of the 40 year old virgin.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Things we have learned from JCharles1981 tonight:

1) Dan Saleamua really was an offensive linemen...apparently not a very good one, either.
2) Al Saunders was an overrated defensive coordinator
3) I hate Tony Moeaki and have given up on his after just 2 years.

[Fritz88]

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me. If you weren't trolling, you wouldn't be firing personal shots at me. I guess being allowed to have an open opinion about the Chiefs doesn't pay off here. Lame!

I think you should start a new thread and call everyone to address this issue. I am sure CP will lend a listening ear.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I think we're learning a few things from this situation about our fan base. For the first time in my lifetime (26 years) the majority of the fan base wants us to draft a Quarterback. These are really interesting times because also for the first time in my lifetime I feel we're pretty close to seeing Arrowhead empty week in week out if A) Josh McDaniels is hired as the head coach. B) Matt Cassel is brought back as the starter without atleast us drafting a rookie QB.

I think you overestimate the fanbase.

While I agree that many more would like to see a QB drafted and are clued in to who McDaniels is and why they do not want.....

This message board and talk radio is not a good gauge of the overall Chiefs Kingdom. This board is consisted of people who are much more informed that the average Chiefs fan.

[OzarksChiefsFan]

The Haley/Bowe story is from Nick Wright. Even if there was some small reason to put stock into what that credibility-challenged toucan is saying about anything, and I'm unaware of any such reason, it shouldn't actually occur until Bowe is re-signed. Because that was an element of the story, that they were working on a new contract as this happened.

Incidentally, without naming names, Kent Babb certainly appeared to shoot down that story, saying that "despite what's being leaked" Haley "had an excellent relationship" with his players.

This would be the same Kent Babb who as recently as a few days ago in a Star chat said the Chiefs most likely keep Haley? The same guy who discounted the problems between Pioli and Haley? Sorry but these local guys are spoon fed their information. I believe it was Clark Hunt that had enough though and made the move. It's just a gut feeling from the press conference.

There is no way the entire team "loved" Haley or hated him either. Most likely the truth is in the middle. I never thought he had the credentials and I didn't like his coaching. A lot of Chiefs fans liked him. I'm sure that's how it was in the locker room as well. Time to move on.

[OzarksChiefsFan]

There was nothing consistent about his teams. They go 12-4 one season, then 6-10 the next. We must really LOVE Denver because we apparently want a clone of their head coach.

Good post and one I agree with. His winning % is somewhere around 54%. There are not many experienced coaches out there with great winning percentages or they would have jobs. I do think Pioli should hire someone who he feels comfortable working with and get everyone going the same direction. It's his last hire if he's wrong so I don't really care who he chooses. From what I've read Clark has him on a short leash. I am more concerned about Stanzi and the QB situation than who the head coach is right now. If Pioli misfires it's getting blown up again anyway.

[bevischief]

what? this is the first I have heard this one. Link?

610 broke it...

[BoneKrusher]

we've learned the Patriot way only works with a Great QB.

[BoneKrusher]

Haley went 10-6 with a cupcake schedule despite Matt Cassel

FYP

[Chiefnj2]

Cliff Notes:

1. No Chiefs news whatsoever. No leaks or rumors of a firing.
2. KC website announces Haley is gone. Press conference in 3 hours.
3. Every reporter suddenly has inside info from the last 3 years, stories include, but are not limited to: Haley hated T Jax pick, it was Haley who took Cassel under his wing and developed and believed in him, Weis refused to develop Cassel, Haley was a monumental prick to Bowe which caused Bowe to go to Pioli and complain, Pioli went to Todd and told him to stop being a dick to players whose contracts the team is trying to extend, Pioli is tied to the hip with Cassel, McD & Ferentz are likely HC candidates.
4. Press conference occurs. Clark seems calm with underlying anger. Pioli looks uneasy, moreso than he ever has in front of the camera. Blame the firing on a lack of consistency. Get asked a bunch of lame questions. No answers.
5. All of the inside leaks and info stops like you are turning off a drain.

Mass hysteria ensues at the Planet. The end.

[threebag]

Even with a cupcake schedule that's still a heck of an accomplishment with Cassel involved. -Matt Cassel needs Jerry Sandusky.

[milkman]

No shit.

I find it comical that people think Jeff Fisher is some amazing coach while Billick is some slapdick.

Billick got lucky. He was never able to bring his offensive genius to Baltimore.

Hell, he picked Grbac to be his QB, and then Boller.

No.

"Guru" and "genius" are are the product of the talent that plays for them on the field.

Billick was never able to bring his "genius" to Baltimore, because Ozzie Newsome never came close to providing him with the talent that he worked with in Minnesota..

In Baltimore, had mediocre skill position players, especially at QB, except RB, an outstanding O-Line to block for that RB, and one of the best defenses in the NFL.

He adapted.

The thing that separated him from guys like Marty and Jeff Fisher, was that he was not afraid to take a risk in the effort to reach the SB.

Where Fisher simply got lucky to win a hard fought contest with Music City Miracle, Brian Billick, in a low scoring hard fought game took a chance.

In a situation that Marty and Fisher would simply have run the ball 3 times and punted, Billick from the Ravens 12 yard line, with a medicre Trent Dilfer, ran slant play that caught the Raiders off guard, and it turned into an 88 yard TD pass.

Tight sphincters, in all probability, lose that game.

[htismaqe]

"Guru" and "genius" are are the product of the talent that plays for them on the field.

Billick was never able to bring his "genius" to Baltimore, because Ozzie Newsome never came close to providing him with the talent that he worked with in Minnesota..

In Baltimore, had mediocre skill position players, especially at QB, except RB, an outstanding O-Line to block for that RB, and one of the best defenses in the NFL.

He adapted.

The thing that separated him from guys like Marty and Jeff Fisher, was that he was not afraid to take a risk in the effort to reach the SB.

Where Fisher simply got lucky to win a hard fought contest with Music City Miracle, Brian Billick, in a low scoring hard fought game took a chance.

In a situation that Marty and Fisher would simply have run the ball 3 times and punted, Billick from the Ravens 12 yard line, with a medicre Trent Dilfer, ran slant play that caught the Raiders off guard, and it turned into an 88 yard TD pass.

Tight sphincters, in all probability, lose that game.

GREAT post.

[Jack]

Do you think I'm that stupid? I don't give props to an offensive player if he sucks. Is it me, or do some people on here like to be trolls and make retarded replies to people they don't like while falsely acting like a know-it-all? True Chiefs fans don't come off acting like moronic a**holes towards other Chiefs fans and basically tell those they disagree with that they can suck it.

They do on the CP. . .

[tk13]

I certainly don't think Fisher is as aggressive as someone like Sean Payton... but he's not Marty either. People equate physical football to Martyball. Just because he ran the ball a lot, his teams would still take shots downfield, take risks, throw in a surprise onside kick or trick play. I don't think a Marty team would've tried the music city miracle play. Fisher also had success with 1st round QBs, even Young who he didn't want. To me Fisher is closer to Rex Ryan than Marty.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ReynardMuldrake]

How fucked are we you ask? Well, we're so fucking fucked that we couldn't be more fucked on our fuckingest day even if we had an electrified fucking machine.

Simpsons?

[htismaqe]

I certainly don't think Fisher is as aggressive as someone like Sean Payton... but he's not Marty either. People equate physical football to Martyball. Just because he ran the ball a lot, his teams would still take shots downfield, take risks, throw in a surprise onside kick or trick play. I don't think a Marty team would've tried the music city miracle play. Fisher also had success with 1st round QBs, even Young who he didn't want. To me Fisher is closer to Rex Ryan than Marty.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yuck. The Jets are the most boring team in the NFL.

[threebag]

This needed it's own thread?

They do on the CP. . .

Yep

[milkman]

Yuck. The Jets are the most boring team in the NFL.

With a Schottenheimer at OC.

Imagine that.

[Chief Roundup]

I would rather have us hire Romeo Crennel than hire Jeff Fisher.

It took a miracle and a blown call for his team to have ever even gotten to the superbowl.

Other than that, he was a poor mans Marty Schottenheimer.

You know who I think would be a fantastic hire (if he wasnt old as dirt)?

Dick Vermiel.

Think of Vermiels offense with this defense to back it up.

I bet Dick could make Stanzi a rockstar...a 23 year old Trent Green would be nice to have.

Uh Vermeil wouldnl't want to spend the money on defense. We would end up right back where we were. Vermeil would want all of these players for his offense and to put them on the squad the rest of our play makers on defense would have to go to have the money for them.

[Chiefnj2]

Uh Vermeil wouldnl't want to spend the money on defense. .

Stupid post. When Gun became the DC under Vermeil, Peterson went out and got every player that Gun wanted.

[Molitoth]

We've learned that the next Chiefs head coach was born in a manger long, long ago

Wait; Tim Tebow or Aaron Curry is applying for the HC position?

/confused

[Iowanian]

This is all a misunderstanding.


Clark Hunt has been watching his DVR Game Of Thrones season, and Haley's beard confused him and he thought he was actually surprising Chief fans by lopping off Ned Stark's head.

It works for fan interest in that show, he's trying to replicate success.

[OnTheWarpath15]

"Guru" and "genius" are are the product of the talent that plays for them on the field.

Billick was never able to bring his "genius" to Baltimore, because Ozzie Newsome never came close to providing him with the talent that he worked with in Minnesota..

In Baltimore, had mediocre skill position players, especially at QB, except RB, an outstanding O-Line to block for that RB, and one of the best defenses in the NFL.

He adapted.

The thing that separated him from guys like Marty and Jeff Fisher, was that he was not afraid to take a risk in the effort to reach the SB.

Where Fisher simply got lucky to win a hard fought contest with Music City Miracle, Brian Billick, in a low scoring hard fought game took a chance.

In a situation that Marty and Fisher would simply have run the ball 3 times and punted, Billick from the Ravens 12 yard line, with a medicre Trent Dilfer, ran slant play that caught the Raiders off guard, and it turned into an 88 yard TD pass.

Tight sphincters, in all probability, lose that game.

Nailed it. Great post.

[Chief Roundup]

Stupid post. When Gun became the DC under Vermeil, Peterson went out and got every player that Gun wanted.

After Vermeil had gotten rid of the talent we had. Yeah he went out and got old worthless cheap players. Not stars, young and up and comers. The money was already spent on the offensive side of the ball. Vermeil believed that the LB position was not very important.

[Chief Roundup]

Stupid post. When Gun became the DC under Vermeil, Peterson went out and got every player that Gun wanted.

Goonther came back after how many years of Greg Robinson and Carl made Vermeil get rid of Robinson. Vermeil was as anti defense as Herm was anti offense.

[ChiefsCountry]

After Vermeil had gotten rid of the talent we had. Yeah he went out and got old worthless cheap players. Not stars, young and up and comers. The money was already spent on the offensive side of the ball. Vermeil believed that the LB position was not very important.

Yet the two biggest free agent signings on defense during the Vermeil era were Kendrell Bell and Shawn Barber. Both were young & up coming players, and they drafted Derrick Johnson. Yet LB was not very important to them?

[Chief Roundup]

Yet the two biggest free agent signings on defense during the Vermeil era were Kendrell Bell and Shawn Barber. Both were young & up coming players, and they drafted Derrick Johnson. Yet LB was not very important to them?

Man you guys and your memories aren't very good. Kendrell Bell yeah he was 26 but he had blown out his knee 3 times before we signed him. The Steelers didn't want him anymore because of his knees. Not a good signing.
Barber was 28 when we signed him. The guy stayed injured. I had hopes for him. But still you guys are talking about LB the cheapest position on the field. We drafted Derrick in Vermeil's last year.

[ChiefsCountry]

What old LBs did the Chief bring in to start under Vermeil after Cadrez the first year? In 2002, it was Fujitia, Maslowski and Patton. Patton got cut, they signed Barber got younger again the next year with Kawika Mitchell.

Also what defense talent did Vermeil let go of? Donnie Edwards. That would be it.

[Chiefnj2]

Goonther came back after how many years of Greg Robinson and Carl made Vermeil get rid of Robinson. Vermeil was as anti defense as Herm was anti offense.

2001 - kc gave up draft picks for Vermeil and Green. 1st pick that they had was defense - Downing.
2002 - Sims and Freeman were the 1st and 2nd round picks.
2003 - Mtichell in the 2nd and Battle in the 3rd.
2004 - first pick was Siavii, then Fox and Allen in 3rd and 4th.

They may have drafted extremely poorly, but they certainly were not anti-defense whatsoever.

[Okie_Apparition]

Fisher should go coach the Raiders
the thugs & undisciplned

[tk13]

Yuck. The Jets are the most boring team in the NFL.

Well that may be true. Although Fisher had guys like McNair, C. Johnson and Kearse over the years who could make things happen. I just think I would rather have Fisher 100 times more than McDaniels.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Okie_Apparition]

Compare the Raider & Titan rap sheets

[Chief Roundup]

What old LBs did the Chief bring in to start under Vermeil after Cadrez the first year? In 2002, it was Fujitia, Maslowski and Patton. Patton got cut, they signed Barber got younger again the next year with Kawika Mitchell.

Also what defense talent did Vermeil let go of? Donnie Edwards. That would be it.

Chester McGlocklin, Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards, Duane Clemons.

[Chief Roundup]

2001 - kc gave up draft picks for Vermeil and Green. 1st pick that they had was defense - Downing.
2002 - Sims and Freeman were the 1st and 2nd round picks.
2003 - Mtichell in the 2nd and Battle in the 3rd.
2004 - first pick was Siavii, then Fox and Allen in 3rd and 4th.

They may have drafted extremely poorly, but they certainly were not anti-defense whatsoever.

They got rid of the money on the defensive side of the ball to bring in players that could run Vermeils offense. Yeah we tried to draft some players....that is a 50/50 if they work out. Not to mention that it takes a couple of years for players to get up to NFL speed.

[milkman]

Chester McGlocklin, Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards, Duane Clemons.

Let me preface my question here by saying, I hated Dick, and that's pretty well documented around here.

But I have to ask, you think that relaesing Chet, Williams and Duane Clemons somehow speaks to Vermeil's apathy toward defense?

Seriously?

[Chiefnj2]

They got rid of the money on the defensive side of the ball to bring in players that could run Vermeils offense. Yeah we tried to draft some players....that is a 50/50 if they work out. Not to mention that it takes a couple of years for players to get up to NFL speed.

Just admit you were wrong and move on. They spent money and draft picks on defense. The picks and free agent acquisitions didn't work out, but they tried.

[Chief Roundup]

Let me preface my question here by saying, I hated Dick, and that's pretty well documented around here.

But I have to ask, you think that relaesing Chet, Williams and Duane Clemons somehow speaks to Vermeil's apathy toward defense?

Seriously?

Well I think by cutting, releasing, not resigining our best Defensive players at the time along with his opinion about the LB position. Remember he drafted London Fletcher and then wouldn't pay him in St. Louis. Fletcher spoke out about that situation. At the time this is where they got the money to sign Green, Dunn and the rest of the players that Vermeil brought in. That defense that he had in St. Louis was 1 tackle good enough to win a SB other than that they were the bottum of the league. Defense was definitely 3rd to Vermeil. Special teams and Offense was more important to Vermeil than the Defense. When everything else on the team is more important than Defense, You know defense wins championships, You can most definitely say he has apathy for Defense.

[crazycoffey]

I guess when you were born retarded, your mother had the doctor slap you to see if he could knock the retarded out. Looks like it didn't work.

Labored

[milkman]

Well I think by cutting, releasing, not resigining our best Defensive players at the time along with his opinion about the LB position. Remember he drafted London Fletcher and then wouldn't pay him in St. Louis. Fletcher spoke out about that situation. At the time this is where they got the money to sign Green, Dunn and the rest of the players that Vermeil brought in. That defense that he had in St. Louis was 1 tackle good enough to win a SB other than that they were the bottum of the league. Defense was definitely 3rd to Vermeil. Special teams and Offense was more important to Vermeil than the Defense. When everything else on the team is more important than Defense, You know defense wins championships, You can most definitely say he has apathy for Defense.

I would argue that Dick was more clueless than he was apathetic, but that is not what I'm arguing right now.

Using those underachievers to prove your point is not proving your point at all.

[Chief Roundup]

I would argue that Dick was more clueless than he was apathetic, but that is not what I'm arguing right now.

Using those underachievers to prove your point is not proving your point at all.

Clueless is probably the better word. We all know he did care.
What underachievers are you refering to?

Why didn't Vermeil draft offensive players and bring in defensive players through FA?

[HemiEd]

Haley went 10-6 with MATT CASSEL

Playing the last place schedule that also included the sucking NFC West. Oakland also swept the division.

It is my opinion, if Cassel was worth the powder to blow his hat off, Haley would still be the HC of this team.

But he isn't, and they get to start over because the QB still sucks ass.

It is really that simple, and the only way to have avoided this would have been for Haley to say no when he had some leverage.

That was when Pioli wanted to hire him, not after he was committed.

[BossChief]

Why would Dick Vermiel have to spend money on defense?

This defense is 2 or 3 players away from being one of the top units in football and Romeo is pretty much the epitome of what DV wants from a DC.

I think Stanzi is damn close to a Trent Green clone and he could do wonders with a guy like Orton in the meantime...if we gave him a first round quarterback, it would put us in the spotlight as a true contender.

[milkman]

Clueless is probably the better word. We all know he did care.
What underachievers are you refering to?

Why didn't Vermeil draft offensive players and bring in defensive players through FA?

The three players you brought up that I named in my followup post.

I wouldn't label Donnie an underachiever.
He was simply overrated by Chief fans.

But regardless of the label, blame for his departure falls more to Carl than Dick.

And I'd guess that the primary reason that you would draft D and sign O in free agency is that it's generally thought that rookies can assimilate defense and have an impact quicker than offensive skill position players.

[HemiEd]

The more you guys paste my quotes and find ways to slam on them, that just shows how much of a troll(s) you really are. And I could careless whether or not you agree with me. If you weren't trolling, you wouldn't be firing personal shots at me. I guess being allowed to have an open opinion about the Chiefs doesn't pay off here. Lame!

Why don't you take a chill pill, and go back and re-read your posts. Once you take the time to discover your stupid errors, then you might want to grovel and ask for forgiveness from this board.

[Chief Roundup]

Why would Dick Vermiel have to spend money on defense?

This defense is 2 or 3 players away from being one of the top units in football and Romeo is pretty much the epitome of what DV wants from a DC.

I think Stanzi is damn close to a Trent Green clone and he could do wonders with a guy like Orton in the meantime...if we gave him a first round quarterback, it would put us in the spotlight as a true contender.

He wouldn't spend money on the defense. He would let a lot of the defensive players go to get money to put towards the offensive players he wanted to bring in. JMO . then we would try and draft some more defensive players.

[Chief Roundup]

The three players you brought up that I named in my followup post.

I wouldn't label Donnie an underachiever.
He was simply overrated by Chief fans.

But regardless of the label, blame for his departure falls more to Carl than Dick.

And I'd guess that the primary reason that you would draft D and sign O in free agency is that it's generally thought that rookies can assimilate defense and have an impact quicker than offensive skill position players.

Wow I wouldn't call Chester, Dan Williams, or Duane Clemons underachievers. Dan may have been injured and took plays off but he was good. Not to mention my original point is that we had a lot of cap space in those players.

[htismaqe]

He wouldn't spend money on the defense. He would let a lot of the defensive players go to get money to put towards the offensive players he wanted to bring in. JMO . then we would try and draft some more defensive players.

They spent quite a bit of money on Shawn Barber, he was one of the first guys signed by any team that offseason.

[milkman]

Wow I wouldn't call Chester, Dan Williams, or Duane Clemons underachievers. Dan may have been injured and took plays off but he was good. Not to mention my original point is that we had a lot of cap space in those players.

Chet had the talent to be the most dominating DT in the game, and never lived up to that ability.

Dan Williams got paid, and his production plummted.

Clemons, maybe not an underachiever, but he really wasn't all that good.

They were all disposable.

[Chief Roundup]

They spent quite a bit of money on Shawn Barber, he was one of the first guys signed by any team that offseason.

Yeah we sure did. To bad he couldn't stay healthy. To bad we didn't have anything on the line better than Hicks and Ransom to keep the Olineman off the LB's.

[htismaqe]

Wow, you're all over the place.

[Chief Roundup]

Chet had the talent to be the most dominating DT in the game, and never lived up to that ability.

Dan Williams got paid, and his production plummted.

Clemons, maybe not an underachiever, but he really wasn't all that good.

They were all disposable.

Maybe for some teams in the NFL, but not for this one at that time. Do you think that Tyson Jackson, Kelly Gregg, and Glenn Dorsey are better than that DLine. Understanding a difference from 4-3 to 3-4. I am not sure that we have a line that was that good even now.

[HemiEd]

Chester McGlocklin, Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards, Duane Clemons.

No you didn't! Dan Williams would not suit up, he had been paid and was done. He was a lazy fuck.

Like it was yesterday, I can still hear Vermeil saying, "I don't know what his problem is."

[Chief Roundup]

Wow, you're all over the place.

Why do you say that? Barber is one player....That I had hope for that didn't work out...One decent attempt doesn't make up for everything else.

[Chief Roundup]

No you didn't! Dan Williams would not suit up, he had been paid and was done. He was a lazy ****.

Like it was yesterday, I can still hear Vermeil saying, "I don't know what his problem is."

As I recall Dan was injured. Hmmm did he retire.

[HemiEd]

As I recall Dan was injured. Hmmm did he retire.

He claimed injury, it was a long drawn out painful experience for all of us. He got paid and was done, simple as that, it was very obvious. If you don't recall it, I would just as soon not go through it again.