View Full Version : Chiefs what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk?
wutamess
12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.
I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.
I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.
I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
the Talking Can
12-20-2011, 08:32 AM
kill yourself
Reerun_KC
12-20-2011, 08:33 AM
Here we go again.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 08:33 AM
There's a reason Broncos fans hated him.
Pressure mostly turns him into a puddle of goo.
suds79
12-20-2011, 08:34 AM
It's the eyeball test. Orton has been in the league for a long time now.
We know who he is. He's a hot/cold guy who is a fair upgrade over Cassel.
He's the type of guy who will always be around 15th or so best QB in the league. It works for now.
I'm even okay with Orton as the QB next year for a bit assuming we draft a QB in the first. That's the key. That doesn't change the fact that the Chiefs need to finally do what they have neglected to do which is take a gamble and draft a QB in the first. It's the mostly likely way to get a franchise QB. They haven't done it and thus we haven't won. Simple as that.
Bwana
12-20-2011, 08:35 AM
Orton is the "short term" answer, but we need to draft someone for the future.
blaise
12-20-2011, 08:35 AM
Saying he's better than Cassel isn't saying much.
Rausch
12-20-2011, 08:36 AM
Orton is the "short term" answer, but we need to draft someone for the future.
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
notorious
12-20-2011, 08:36 AM
You are right, there shouldn't be any more talk about Orton being the answer.
We should just assume that everyone knows that he isn't.
BoneKrusher
12-20-2011, 08:36 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
This^
TheGuardian
12-20-2011, 08:45 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
This for me too.
cabletech94
12-20-2011, 08:46 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
I love this idea. Realisticly though, palko is gone. We're probably stuck with casserole for 2 more years ( so hope I'm wrong ). I believe Orton was brought in for the potential draft pick, but in essence has got us back in this fight. I think his play, and whatever happens in these next 2 Games might change the brasses idea.
While I'm not a draftorbater I do like the idea of drafting a franchise qb. Like everyone else here. Will that happen? Dunno. Gonna be a fun end of the season. Go Buffalo!
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
:clap:
Bwana
12-20-2011, 08:49 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
I would be just fine with that. I just want those two humps out of KC.
jidar
12-20-2011, 08:52 AM
The Orton thing
It's the best QB play we've seen in awhile, but that's not saying much.
I'm okay with Orton at QB, but I realize it's mostly because I've seen such shitty QB play here for the past few years. When you're eating ramen noodles every day then microwave pizza seems like gourmet fare. Thing is, you'll get tired of Microwave pizza pretty quick too and then we'll all be back to bitching about drafting a QBOTF.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 08:54 AM
Kyle Orton struggles in a low point for Broncos vs. Chiefs
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Kyle Orton threw high, he threw low, he threw under duress, but mostly he threw incomplete.
In what was his most inaccurate game as the Broncos' quarterback, Orton completed only 9-of-28 passes Sunday in a 10-6 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs.
There were games this season when Orton threw for 476 yards, 370 yards and 347 yards, and it wasn't enough as the Broncos still lost.
Finally, the defense holds an opponent to 10 points, and Orton throws his first clunker of the season. With the Broncos, it's always something.
Dexter Manley
12-20-2011, 08:55 AM
Maybe if we offer the Bears both Orton and Cassel, they'll give us Cutler...
Deberg_1990
12-20-2011, 08:55 AM
People have gotten so tired of how bad Cassel is, anything other than him is viewed as a miracle upgrade.
I dont mind Orton for a year or two. I think hes decent and probably a top 15 guy.
BoneKrusher
12-20-2011, 08:56 AM
People have gotten so tired of how bad Cassel is, anything other than him is viewed as a miracle upgrade.
I dont mind Orton for a year or two. I think hes decent and probably a top 15 guy.
i agree.
KCUnited
12-20-2011, 09:01 AM
I shit you not, I watched the game on Sunday with 4 dudes that went from "draft and develop a QB or run Pioli out of town" to "we're a stout defense away from the SB" in a matter of 4 quarters and 10 pitchers of beer.
Simply Red
12-20-2011, 09:02 AM
it's at least nice seeing someone not get crushed every snap. With Orton at least they have somewhat of a team. I still say get younger, though.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 09:08 AM
He's very inconsistent.
As far as having great weapons in KC, people need to get a grip. Bowe can be invisible just as many times as he makes a great catch. Breaston is a good slot receiver, and Baldwin is still a complete unknown.
The Bad Guy
12-20-2011, 09:11 AM
Give Orton a 2 year deal. Nothing over that.
Beef Supreme
12-20-2011, 09:12 AM
Orton will work for now. ANYTHING to get rid of Cassel and get an NFL caliber QB on the field. Like everyone else, I'm not confident he is the long term answer and would like to see us draft a QB. But you never know, Orton might just figure it all out and start beasting.
One of his main knocks in Denver was he could drive it up and down the field but couldn't stick it in the end zone. We saw that on Sunday. But the play calling was ass, so it's not all on him. If he can figure out the red zone with big physical receivers like Bowe, Baldwin, and even Pope, he might turn out ok.
Reerun_KC
12-20-2011, 09:12 AM
Give Orton a 2 year deal. Nothing over that.
And that is being generous...
2 years at backup salary to be a #2 or #3 on the depth chart is fine, anything over that and he can walk...
He would be a decent backup to our franchise starting QB next year...
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 09:13 AM
The only thing I will say in Orton's defense:
He never had a running game AND a defense in Denver.
The Broncos were 18th in rushing and 7th in defense his first year.
His second year they were 26th in rushing and 32nd in defense.
In KC he will most likely have a top 10 running game and top 15 defense next season.
Deberg_1990
12-20-2011, 09:16 AM
He's very inconsistent.
As far as having great weapons in KC, people need to get a grip. Bowe can be invisible just as many times as he makes a great catch. Breaston is a good slot receiver, and Baldwin is still a complete unknown.
Bowe hasnt been invisible for awhile, Breaston is solid and Baldwin has shown plenty of potential this year in a handful of games.
Not saying Orton is savior, but with more time to work with our team, getting our injured stars back next year, and another solid draft, this is definately a playoff team in 12.
suds79
12-20-2011, 09:17 AM
Give Orton a 2 year deal. Nothing over that.
Hard to see Orton in KC next year. I think we can all agree don't sign him to a long term, big $$ deal. But I think Kyle is going to get an opportunity to sign a long term deal somewhere. He's only 29.
We just need to get that 1st round QB and play him so it doesn't matter what happens with Cassel or Orton.
cabletech94
12-20-2011, 09:18 AM
The only thing I will say in Orton's defense:
He never had a running game AND a defense in Denver.
The Broncos were 18th in rushing and 7th in defense his first year.
His second year they were 26th in rushing and 32nd in defense.
In KC he will most likely have a top 10 running game and top 15 defense next season.
That is exciting. Can't wait for September, but these next 2 weeks might be hella fun!
Garcia Bronco
12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
Really...you guys don't want to kick the tires some more? You're ready to put a ring on his finger? Wow.
KC_Lee
12-20-2011, 09:21 AM
Considering what we had before Orton (Huard, Croyle Cassel) it's easy to get excited.
I agree with giving him a 2 year deal and drafting a QB in the first round.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 09:22 AM
The only thing I will say in Orton's defense:
He never had a running game AND a defense in Denver.
The Broncos were 18th in rushing and 7th in defense his first year.
His second year they were 26th in rushing and 32nd in defense.
In KC he will most likely have a top 10 running game and top 15 defense next season.
2008 Bears had a running game and an average D.
wutamess
12-20-2011, 09:23 AM
There's a reason Broncos fans hated him.
Pressure mostly turns him into a puddle of goo.
Could it be because they got rid of his favorite target... Tebow is really tearing it up in the passing game.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 09:23 AM
2008 Bears had a running game and an average D.
They were 24th in rushing.
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-20-2011, 09:24 AM
He's very inconsistent.
As far as having great weapons in KC, people need to get a grip. Bowe can be invisible just as many times as he makes a great catch. Breaston is a good slot receiver, and Baldwin is still a complete unknown.
I'm suuuuure that has nothing to do with the QB's KC has had behind center :rolleyes:
Bwana
12-20-2011, 09:25 AM
Considering what we had before Orton (Huard, Croyle Cassel) it's easy to get excited.
I agree with giving him a 2 year deal and drafting a QB in the first round.
Ok, thinking about what we have had for the post Green years, makes me want to curb stomp the Easter Bunny. What a load of trash! No wonder Orton looks so good.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 09:26 AM
I'm suuuuure that has nothing to do with the QB's KC has had behind center :rolleyes:
Great receivers can help elevate a QB. Bowe hasn't had a TD in 9 games. Gonzo had crap throwing to him for many games and was still able to consistently beat double and triple teams.
wutamess
12-20-2011, 09:27 AM
2008 Bears had a running game and an average D.
When has he EVER had a true #1 WR? Lloyd aint a #1 but Orton made him to be one. This guy is a great fit for this team.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-20-2011, 09:28 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
This line of thinking is absolutely retarded. EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL IS FLAWED. Every damn one. If it was up to you, no team would ever take a QB, because it's impossible to assemble the perfect team.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 09:28 AM
When has he EVER had a true #1 WR? Lloyd aint a #1 but Orton made him to be one. This guy is a great fit for this team.
Without looking it up myself, did he have Brandon Marshall?
wutamess
12-20-2011, 09:29 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
THIS!
Molitoth
12-20-2011, 09:29 AM
As far as having great weapons in KC, people need to get a grip. Bowe can be invisible just as many times as he makes a great catch. Breaston is a good slot receiver, and Baldwin is still a complete unknown.
Exactly!
Bowe drops a lot of crucial balls.
Breaston has been pretty good.
Baldwin is still unknown. I've seen him "Almost" make some circus catches, but almost doesn't get you anywhere.
patteeu
12-20-2011, 09:31 AM
I like Orton better than Cassel, but if the Chiefs sign Orton they're probably going to be sinking enough money into the deal to make it hard not to start Orton for at least a couple of years (just like with Cassel two years ago when he signed his K). That makes drafting an early round QB prospect less likely, IMO.
So I'm OK with signing Orton, but I'd rather see them draft a 1st round QB and keep Cassel to start until the new guy (or Stanzi) is ready.
-King-
12-20-2011, 09:32 AM
The mindset behind this thread makes me want to kick rabbits.
Posted via Mobile Device
Pasta Little Brioni
12-20-2011, 09:32 AM
Great receivers can help elevate a QB. Bowe hasn't had a TD in 9 games. Gonzo had crap throwing to him for many games and was still able to consistently beat double and triple teams.
His stats are on par of where Andre Johnson was at that stage in his career. He can't force a shit QB to read a defense better.
wutamess
12-20-2011, 09:34 AM
Without looking it up myself, did he have Brandon Marshall?
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow><TD>2009</TD><TD>
DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">16</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">336</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">541</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">62.1</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3,802</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">7.03</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">21</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right"></TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">12</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">86.8</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>2010</TD><TD>
DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">13</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">293</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">498</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">58.8</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3,653</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">7.34</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">20</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right"></TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">9</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">1</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">87.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=evenrow><TD></TD><TD>
DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">16</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">336</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">541</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">62.1</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3,802</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">7.03</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">21</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">87</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">12</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">86.8</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD></TD><TD>
DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">13</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">293</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">498</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">58.8</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">3,653</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">7.34</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">20</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">71</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">9</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">1</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">87.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
He didn't have the running games or the multiple threats we'll possess.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 09:34 AM
When has he EVER had a true #1 WR? Lloyd aint a #1 but Orton made him to be one. This guy is a great fit for this team.
Even if he did have a #1 WR, he has a history of letting pressure bring out the worst in him.
It doesn't matter if you have 4 HOF WRs running around out there, if you shit your pants under pressure you're fucked.
Now, maybe our playmakers + defense might reduce the amount of pressure situations he has to face. But at some point the D is probably going to falter, probably against a superior QB in the playoffs...so then you wonder if Orton can respond.
wutamess
12-20-2011, 09:39 AM
Even if he did have a #1 WR, he has a history of letting pressure bring out the worst in him.
It doesn't matter if you have 4 HOF WRs running around out there, if you shit your pants under pressure you're ****ed.
Now, maybe our playmakers + defense might reduce the amount of pressure situations he has to face. But at some point the D is probably going to falter, probably against a superior QB in the playoffs...so then you wonder if Orton can respond.
Like the pressure of scoring to put us back on top after GB went up?
Or like the pressure to knock the game out of reach with timely throws at the end in his first game ever with less than 2 weeks of preparation with a new team?
I get your point but we know what we got in Orton... Not ready to throw the draft at a #1 QB when we have so many O-Line needs.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 09:41 AM
Like the pressure of scoring to put us back on top after GB went up?
Or like the pressure to knock the game out of reach with timely throws at the end in his first game ever with less than 2 weeks of preparation with a new team?
I get your point but we know what we got in Orton... Not ready to throw the draft at a #1 QB when we have so many O-Line needs.
Actually, mostly I'm talking about pass rush pressure.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times he had to throw under pressure against GB.
There's a reason Broncos fans called him "The Pocket Sloth"
Reerun_KC
12-20-2011, 09:42 AM
Like the pressure of scoring to put us back on top after GB went up?
Or like the pressure to knock the game out of reach with timely throws at the end in his first game ever with less than 2 weeks of preparation with a new team?
I get your point but we know what we got in Orton... Not ready to throw the draft at a #1 QB when we have so many O-Line needs.
And this is why we will never be a serious playoff or super bowl contender..
This line of thinking isnt how teams that win superbowls think.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 09:52 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
THIS!
TRUE FANS UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!
http://designmind.frogdesign.com/files/u80/RaisedFist1.jpeg
Brock
12-20-2011, 09:55 AM
I like Orton, I want to sign him to a deal, but let's face the facts. Better than Cassel shouldn't be the goal.
-King-
12-20-2011, 09:56 AM
I like Orton, I want to sign him to a deal, but let's face the facts. Better than Cassel shouldn't be the goal.
This. This. 500x this!
Posted via Mobile Device
Garcia Bronco
12-20-2011, 09:56 AM
Without looking it up myself, did he have Brandon Marshall?
He had Marshall and Lloyd. Both are number 1 wide receivers. And Orton didn't make Lloyd a better player. They actually ---(gas)---worked together very hard int he off-season to get better. Plus they were together in Chicago.
Rasputin
12-20-2011, 09:59 AM
Great. We got our QBotn2.5y
FringeNC
12-20-2011, 10:00 AM
I re-watched the DirecTV 30 minute condensed game and Kyle Orton's performance was the first time since Trent Green that we've had a quarterback who could read the defense and make the throw. I don't know how good Orton can be, but he reminded me of Trent Green even more the second time I watched the game. He's certainly good enough to be our starter while we groom an early pick.
Kyle Orton is on a completely different level than Matt Cassel.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 10:06 AM
There's a reason Broncos fans hated him.
Pressure mostly turns him into a puddle of goo.
Our line is supposedly one of the worst in the league and he didn't turn to goo one time.
Either he's not what Bronco fan says he is, or our line isn't what Chiefs fan say it is...
:hmmm:
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 10:07 AM
I like Orton, I want to sign him to a deal, but let's face the facts. Better than Cassel shouldn't be the goal.
This.
KC_Lee
12-20-2011, 10:10 AM
Kyle Orton is on a completely different level than Matt Cassel.
While this is true it ain't saying much.
Nightfyre
12-20-2011, 10:10 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
Never go full retard.
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm not ready to give orton a ring, but one game with him I'm ready to give him the job over cassel. Someone asked me what's the difference between the two was this:
I'm orton take snap look at first option covered, look second, look third , look fourth throw complete no panicking.
I'm cassel take snap look at first option still looking, come on get open man , crap here comes the pass rush crap, and throws it away, an interception, in the dirt, or crumbles in the pocket.
The reason I go with orton two words:
Pocket Awareness
Not sure I can support pioli if he let's orton go and tries to sell us on cassel again. Only way I support cassel if we draft a QB for the future. Unfortunately he'd probably be still
QB the whole year. Me I'm done with Cassel.
Rasputin
12-20-2011, 10:26 AM
Unfuckingbelievable. After all these years of fail of winning a playoff game with retread QBs Orton is our guy. Unfuckingbelievable. Fuck you true fans fuck you.
bricks
12-20-2011, 10:28 AM
I'm not ready to give orton a ring, but one game with him I'm ready to give him the job over cassel. Someone asked me what's the difference between the two was this:
I'm orton take snap look at first option covered, look second, look third , look fourth throw complete no panicking.
I'm cassel take snap look at first option still looking, come on get open man , crap here comes the pass rush crap, and throws it away, an interception, in the dirt, or crumbles in the pocket.
The reason I go with orton two words:
Pocket Awareness
Not sure I can support pioli if he let's orton go and tries to sell us on cassel again. Only way I support cassel if we draft a QB for the future. Unfortunately he'd probably be still
QB the whole year. Me I'm done with Cassel.
I have this feeling Pioli is going to keep Cassel.
The Chiefs will probably sign Orton as well. I could see them keeping both Cassel and Orton and drafting an offensive lineman in the first round. Then they are going to let Cassel and Orton compete for the starting QB job. That seems to be the way the Chiefs operate. I hope I'm wrong.
The Franchise
12-20-2011, 10:29 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
Holy shit.....I have no idea who you are....but I fucking hate you.
tredadda
12-20-2011, 10:31 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
:thumb: I agree that this would be our best route to take.
Rasputin
12-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Orton is the kind of QB that is great one week just to flop the next. He is of the inconsistent variety of QB. That is recipe for 8-8 season or 10-6 season & getting our ass kicked yet again in the playoffs. That's what we get. Oh boy & the joy of making the playoffs for the true fans just makes em happy.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 10:35 AM
I can't believe how much people make of one good game.
You need a QB that can carry the team into the playoffs. The Falcons had something like 8 playoff appearances in 40 years. They draft Ryan and now they are in every year and have a decent chance of winning some games.
KC NEEDS TO DESPERATELY DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DRAFT A POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB AND PLAY THE KID. WORRY ABOUT ORTON, CASSEL, HASSELBACK, MCNABB OR WHOEVER ELSE AFTER YOU DRAFT THE QBOTF.
kaplin42
12-20-2011, 10:36 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
/All threads on this topic are over now.
jd1020
12-20-2011, 10:37 AM
Interim coach Romeo Crennel said Kyle Orton should be the Chiefs 2012 starter if he wins the final two games.
There's a ton of uncertainty in Kansas City, so Crennel is getting way ahead of himself here. He's no lock to get the head coaching job, Orton is an impending free agent and Matt Cassel is under contract through 2014. Still, Orton may truly be a better option than Cassel. The Chiefs would be foolish not to at least consider using him as a "bridge" to a rookie quarterback they might draft in April.
KC_Lee
12-20-2011, 10:39 AM
I can't believe how much people make of one good game.
You need a QB that can carry the team into the playoffs. The Falcons had something like 8 playoff appearances in 40 years. They draft Ryan and now they are in every year and have a decent chance of winning some games.
KC NEEDS TO DESPERATELY DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DRAFT A POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB AND PLAY THE KID. WORRY ABOUT ORTON, CASSEL, HASSELBACK, MCNABB OR WHOEVER ELSE AFTER YOU DRAFT THE QBOTF.
This, over and over and over and over.
How many more times do we need to get excited over some scrub QB that we picked up from some other team?
It's almost Pavlonian how Chiefs' fans respond to one good game from scrub QBs and the fact that this team has NEVER drafted and developed its own franchise QB goes right out the window.
Orton is A answer, not THE answer.
Really...you guys don't want to kick the tires some more? You're ready to put a ring on his finger? Wow.
You really should read the posts in this thread.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 10:43 AM
Interim coach Romeo Crennel said Kyle Orton should be the Chiefs 2012 starter if he wins the final two games.
There's a ton of uncertainty in Kansas City, so Crennel is getting way ahead of himself here. He's no lock to get the head coaching job, Orton is an impending free agent and Matt Cassel is under contract through 2014. Still, Orton may truly be a better option than Cassel. The Chiefs would be foolish not to at least consider using him as a "bridge" to a rookie quarterback they might draft in April.
Where did Romeo say this? Is it true?
Is the CERTAINTY of no Matt Cassel reason enough to give him the job NOW? :)
tredadda
12-20-2011, 10:44 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
The biggest hole on this team is and almost always has been our QB. Instead of picking up retreads and late round QB's why don't we do what it takes to get a first round caliber QB even if it means trading up for. I swear some people won't trade up for a QB because he might be a Ryan Leaf, but would rather keep a pick that could turn into a Trezelle Jenkins. Any player can bust. ANY! There is no guarantee that the picks we keep instead of giving up for a QB will pan out either. This team has holes and always will as all teams do (look at GB and NE).
We can get great players at every position but QB in FA. No more hoping for a late round gem hoping he becomes the next Tom Brady. Wake up! Tom Brady was a once in a lifetime (not generation, lifetime) QB. Now why are NE and GB considered elite in spite of their holes? Just look at who they have under center to answer that question. Orton is serviceable, but if he were what you think he is, he wouldn't be with us. Chicago gave up alot PLUS Orton just to get Cutler. Denver benched him and eventually cut him for a QB many think is a glorified HB. When he was a FA, only three teams put in a waiver request for him, and one was us. That is 3 out of 32 teams. There are more teams then that who could use a QB, yet they passed on him.
Is he better than Cassel? Sure, but Cassel should not be the litmus test used to determine whether a QB is good or not. I am all for resigning Orton for at least a year and trading up for a QB (unless that QB is Luck) and letting our first rounder riding the pine for a year, but I do not think Orton is a guy who can take us to the promised land. I know he fooled some people by putting up a whopping 19 points against the worst defense in football, but he is on team three for a reason.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 10:44 AM
I can't believe how much people make of one good game.
You need a QB that can carry the team into the playoffs. The Falcons had something like 8 playoff appearances in 40 years. They draft Ryan and now they are in every year and have a decent chance of winning some games.
KC NEEDS TO DESPERATELY DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DRAFT A POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB AND PLAY THE KID. WORRY ABOUT ORTON, CASSEL, HASSELBACK, MCNABB OR WHOEVER ELSE AFTER YOU DRAFT THE QBOTF.
You have to worry about Orton/Cassel NOW.
Because if they're going with Cassel, there is no QBotF in April. I still firmly believe that Pioli thinks CASSEL is the future.
With Orton, it's a pretty obvious stop-gap move.
durtyrute
12-20-2011, 10:46 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
I agree with most of this. I don't like the idea of giving away picks to move up for anyone. We have no idea how they will play in the NFL. Plus, we still have some holes to fill. I'd say keep Orton (Cassel and Palko exit stage left) and go BPA in the draft. If it's a QB in the first, great, if not find one later. Then next year roll with Orton while Stanzi and QBX sit and watch. In two years, QB comp between QBX and Stanzi and we roll with the winner.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 10:47 AM
I agree with most of this. I don't like the idea of giving away picks to move up for anyone. We have no idea how they will play in the NFL. Plus, we still have some holes to fill. I'd say keep Orton (Cassel and Palko exit stage left) and go BPA in the draft. If it's a QB in the first, great, if not find one later. Then next year roll with Orton while Stanzi and QBX sit and watch. In two years, QB comp between QBX and Stanzi and we roll with the winner.
We also have no idea how the combined multiple picks (however many) used ot move up will play in the NFL. It's all uncertain. You're using the excuse of uncertainty to not give up uncertainty. It's completely illogical.
the Talking Can
12-20-2011, 10:50 AM
Not ready to throw the draft at a #1 QB when we have so many O-Line needs.
there is not a facepalm in the universe large enough to adequately respond to this....
jesus facepalm christ, we'll spend 30 years drafting OL, but never not even once a QB...BECAUSE IT WORKS SO WELL THAT WAY RIGHT?
i don't even care if you kill yourself at this point because I'm going to off myself anyways...
RealSNR
12-20-2011, 10:51 AM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
Let's play a game. Rearrange the following words to form a complete sentence:
A
GO
FIRE
IN
DIE
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 10:52 AM
You have to worry about Orton/Cassel NOW.
Because if they're going with Cassel, there is no QBotF in April. I still firmly believe that Pioli thinks CASSEL is the future.
With Orton, it's a pretty obvious stop-gap move.
I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that management views Orton as a stop gap but Cassel as a long term solution. They are very similar.
RealSNR
12-20-2011, 10:53 AM
DID YOU IDIOT FUCKING TRUE FANS SEE THE GODDAMN OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY YESTERDAY?
FUCK!
DID YOU IDIOT ****ING TRUE FANS SEE THE GODDAMN OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY YESTERDAY?
****!
It's been obvious to me that Cassel doesn't read a defense quickly enough and/or stays with one receiver too long. People were talking about the offensive line being so horrible after that Miami debacle. But I contend that a lot of that you can blame on the QB play (due to poor read/recognition skills) and not the offensive line.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 11:02 AM
I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that management views Orton as a stop gap but Cassel as a long term solution. They are very similar.
Orton was acquired off waivers, after the trade deadline.
The other required the trading of a 2nd round pick and a $67M contract.
The 2 QBs are definitely similar but their situations couldn't be more different.
Beef Supreme
12-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Anything but Cassel is my new mantra. Stop gap, draft pick, free agent, I don't care.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Orton was acquired off waivers, after the trade deadline.
The other required the trading of a 2nd round pick and a $67M contract.
The 2 QBs are definitely similar but their situations couldn't be more different.
I think how Cassel was acquired 3 years ago is largely irrelevant. Pioli knows he has 1 more chance to make things better or lose his job and forever be known as the guy who hung on Belichick's coattails. I don't think the original contract is a factor anymore.
tecumseh
12-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
Put me down for one of these. Cassel will probably still be on the roster, though ,at #2.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:08 AM
OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.
I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.
I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.
I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
With fans like this, who needs Raider trolls?
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:11 AM
The only thing I will say in Orton's defense:
He never had a running game AND a defense in Denver.
The Broncos were 18th in rushing and 7th in defense his first year.
His second year they were 26th in rushing and 32nd in defense.
In KC he will most likely have a top 10 running game and top 15 defense next season.
A top 10 defense and a mediocre running game with a legitimate #1 receiver should be more than enough for any quality QB to make a run, not finish 8-8.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 11:12 AM
I think how Cassel was acquired 3 years ago is largely irrelevant. Pioli knows he has 1 more chance to make things better or lose his job and forever be known as the guy who hung on Belichick's coattails. I don't think the original contract is a factor anymore.
That could very well be true.
It also could be true that Pioli is SO consumed by the need to prove himself that he's going to ride Cassel all the way to the bottom, no matter what.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:13 AM
You have to worry about Orton/Cassel NOW.
Because if they're going with Cassel, there is no QBotF in April. I still firmly believe that Pioli thinks CASSEL is the future.
With Orton, it's a pretty obvious stop-gap move.
To you it's an obvious stopgap move. To fans, and perhaps to Pioli, it's a diamond in the rough.
King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Orton did a good job Sunday. However, the Chiefs have the same problem they have had all year...can't score within the red zone. It is the same problem Orton had in Denver.
Maybe it is the play calling but I am not sold on him being the guy except for the time it takes to bring the QBOTF (if we get one) to be brought up to speed. He is indeed a better QB than Cassel has demonstrated.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 11:19 AM
A top 10 defense and a mediocre running game with a legitimate #1 receiver should be more than enough for any quality QB to make a run, not finish 8-8.
Well, his coach WAS Josh McDaniels.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 11:21 AM
Orton was acquired off waivers, after the trade deadline.
The other required the trading of a 2nd round pick and a $67M contract.
The 2 QBs are definitely similar but their situations couldn't be more different.
Business 101: any compensation or money previously spent on Cassel is a sunk cost.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 11:24 AM
Business 101: any compensation or money previously spent on Cassel is a sunk cost.
You missed my point. The way in which the two were acquired is important because of how they might FEEL about the two. This isn't about business.
They gave Cassel the biggest contract in team history before he had ever played a snap for the Chiefs.
Pioli has a PERSONAL affinity for Cassel.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 11:26 AM
You missed my point. The way in which the two were acquired is important because of how they might FEEL about the two. This isn't about business.
They gave Cassel the biggest contract in team history before he had ever played a snap for the Chiefs.
Pioli has a PERSONAL affinity for Cassel.
I'm hoping he had a personal affinity for Cassel.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:26 AM
Well, his coach WAS Josh McDaniels.
Norv Turner, Barry Switzer, Jim Caldwell, Herm Edwards.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 11:27 AM
I'm hoping he had a personal affinity for Cassel.
I thought about adding that caveat but figured it was just wishful thinking at this point... ;)
Orton did a good job Sunday. However, the Chiefs have the same problem they have had all year...can't score within the red zone. It is the same problem Orton had in Denver.
Maybe it is the play calling but I am not sold on him being the guy except for the time it takes to bring the QBOTF (if we get one) to be brought up to speed. He is indeed a better QB than Cassel has demonstrated.
I am not ready to crown Orton as the QBOTF after just one game, but I don't think you can blame him for the red zone issues against GB. On the first, he threw the out pattern in a perfect spot, IMO to the receiver (McClain?). On the second one where they came away with no points, I would blame the play calling and/or execution of the blockers. Keep in mind that one was all running.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 11:40 AM
Norv Turner, Barry Switzer, Jim Caldwell, Herm Edwards.
http://i39.tinypic.com/5x4dgz.jpg
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:49 AM
Duck and cover, Miles, you dumb sonofabitch.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 11:53 AM
Pioli has a PERSONAL affinity for Cassel.
Both McDaniels and Pioli felt Cassel was a franchise. Nobody has any idea if they still feel that way.
People keep talking about Pioli being too stubborn to move on from players, but where is the proof? He's parted ways pretty quickly with early draft picks like Magee. He hasn't forced coaches to keep free agent acquisitions that they didn't want - he must have brought in at least 8 WRs in 3 years.
Okie_Apparition
12-20-2011, 11:59 AM
I expect a DurangoOrtonStalker to show up any day now
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 12:15 PM
Not to repeat what others have said but plunket, Gannon, even the great Len Dawson weren't great at their first stop. Sometimes there are factors such as people around them or the opportunity.
How do we know Orton wasn't just looking for an opportunity with a team with pieces around him.
Not comparing him to these QBs but you never know sometimes it takes people longer for it all to click maybe this is the case.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 12:23 PM
Not to repeat what others have said but plunket, Gannon, even the great Len Dawson weren't great at their first stop. Sometimes there are factors such as people around them or the opportunity.
How do we know Orton wasn't just looking for an opportunity with a team with pieces around him.
Not comparing him to these QBs but you never know sometimes it takes people longer for it all to click maybe this is the case.
During Drew Brees' best season in San Diego he threw for 1200+ yards less than his worst season in New Orleans.
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 12:24 PM
Personally I draft Hightower ILB from Bama first get OT in second
Draft a QB third round
Sign a young NT FA, OG, S, TE
Resign Orton, CARR, BOwe, MCClain
Trade Cassel for whatever
That's my offseason
DaWolf
12-20-2011, 12:25 PM
Orton's not the answer and I'm expecting a stinker from him any day now.
If we're just looking for a three year answer while we look to find a successor in a year or two, why not just go all in and go get Manning, assuming he forces the Colts hand?
http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/33964169
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 12:30 PM
Personally I draft Hightower ILB from Bama first get OT in second
Draft a QB third round
Sign a young NT FA, OG, S, TE
Resign Orton, CARR, BOwe, MCClain
Trade Cassel for whatever
That's my offseason
This year you can likely get a quality OT in rd 3 or 4.
Cassel, especially with his contract, has no trade value. Just cut his ass.
alpha_omega
12-20-2011, 12:33 PM
Better than Mark Castle....absolutely!
QBOTF....absolutely NOT!
Chief Faithful
12-20-2011, 12:37 PM
The issue with Orton has always been consistency. He can make all the throws, spreads the ball well and has good leadership qualities on the field. The problem sometimes he just turns stoopid. While he has had good former QB coaches as Head Coaches (McBust) he has never had a good QB coach and good receivers, which the Chiefs have both. If he can develop some consistency I believe Orton will be a very good QB.
Didn't Orton start as a rookie over Grossman in Chicago?
Okie_Apparition
12-20-2011, 12:41 PM
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
Oh My
I'd better pop some corn
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 12:43 PM
Why draft a QB when we can pick up a RT, NT, sign Orton and be ready for a Super Bowl run?
Pasta Little Brioni
12-20-2011, 12:45 PM
Why draft a QB when we can pick up a RT, NT, sign Orton and be ready for a Super Bowl run?
Worked in his Madden 'chise
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 12:48 PM
Lol I think it's funny people want to trade for manning the dude has a broken neck??? Um he might be done. No probably is done.
Mr. Laz
12-20-2011, 12:48 PM
There's a reason Broncos fans hated him.
Pressure mostly turns him into a puddle of goo.
you do realize that pressure turns most QB's into a puddle of goo?
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Personally I draft Hightower ILB from Bama first get OT in second
Draft a QB third round
Sign a young NT FA, OG, S, TE
Resign Orton, CARR, BOwe, MCClain
Trade Cassel for whatever
That's my offseason
With all the needs this team has, you draft an ILB in the first?
WTF
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 12:49 PM
DaKCman
What is the hit if we cut cassel??
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Chiefs fans will do anything to rationalize avoiding having to draft and develop a first round QB.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-20-2011, 12:51 PM
With all the needs this team has, you draft an ILB in the first?
WTF
Keep fucking doubting Jovan Belcher :cuss:
KC_Lee
12-20-2011, 12:52 PM
Chiefs fans will do anything to rationalize avoiding having to draft and develop a first round QB.
And that's just sad....
Stryker
12-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Orton is not the answer - he is a "short" term solution. Ditch Cassel and Palko, draft a QB in the first and keep Stanzi and Orton (1 yr. contract ?).
What would you say if the zebra shows his stripes in the next 2 games? Will he still be the "answer"? I like him better than Cassel but not as a permenant solution.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 12:59 PM
DaKCman
What is the hit if we cut cassel??
I'm not 100% certain of the cap implications but all of the guaranteed money has already been paid, so the cash hit to Hunt is basically zero.
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 01:00 PM
Yes because add Hightower this D becomes elite and makes up for a lot of defficiencies.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 01:01 PM
DaKCman
What is the hit if we cut cassel??
Who cares? We've been operating $30mil under the cap.
ChiefsCountry
12-20-2011, 01:01 PM
Hightower will be available in the 2nd round.
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 01:02 PM
Hmm thanks hts
I thought that I'm hoping pioli moves on from cassel not sure if he will though
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm saying we should draft the guy reminds me of ray Lewis a beast on the field
durtyrute
12-20-2011, 01:07 PM
We also have no idea how the combined multiple picks (however many) used ot move up will play in the NFL. It's all uncertain. You're using the excuse of uncertainty to not give up uncertainty. It's completely illogical.
No, I'm using the fact that we just drafted a QB, that we haven't even seen, and the fact that we have one now, that will do for a few years, as an excuse. If the BPA is a QB so be it. I'm not selling my soul for anyone in the draft. Let Stanzi and the unknown battle it out. I'm all about getting a shiny new QB but I'm not giving up 2 first and 2 seconds or whatever unreasonable crap you guys are throwing out. If it's something like this years 1st and next years 2 second, I'll do that, but I'm not going to go all crazy for anyone.
DaKCMan AP
12-20-2011, 01:11 PM
No, I'm using the fact that we just drafted a QB, that we haven't even seen, and the fact that we have one now, that will do for a few years, as an excuse. If the BPA is a QB so be it. I'm not selling my soul for anyone in the draft. Let Stanzi and the unknown battle it out. I'm all about getting a shiny new QB but I'm not giving up 2 first and 2 seconds or whatever unreasonable crap you guys are throwing out. If it's something like this years 1st and next years 2 second, I'll do that, but I'm not going to go all crazy for anyone.
If the BPA is a WR do you draft him?
If the BPA is a SS do you draft him?
If the BPA is a CB do you draft him (assuming Carr is re-signed)?
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 01:14 PM
Why draft a QB when we can pick up a RT, NT, sign Orton and be ready for a Super Bowl run?
LMAO
Sure is fucking sad how people around here will get on their knees for the first 299-yard passer that buys the fanbase a drink.
durtyrute
12-20-2011, 01:16 PM
If the BPA is a WR do you draft him?
If the BPA is a SS do you draft him?
If the BPA is a CB do you draft him (assuming Carr is re-signed)?
Good point, I'll go BPA in a position of need. I'm not drafting any of those that you put up, not in the first. If it's a QB then great. I'm just not up for throwing eight picks for one player. Shit, I still want to see what Stanzi has.
Reaper16
12-20-2011, 01:21 PM
In the words of the great htismaqe: "Better than bad ≠ good"
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 01:22 PM
I'm tired of the OT in first talk every year. We can get one in later rounds or free agency.
If we want a new face of franchise trade up get QB sign orton and let the fun begin.
If not then trade down draft the one thing this D needs a ILB by DJ the thumper to shut down runs up the middle.
This team isn't as far away as most think
lcarus
12-20-2011, 01:27 PM
The Orton thing
It's the best QB play we've seen in awhile, but that's not saying much.
I'm okay with Orton at QB, but I realize it's mostly because I've seen such shitty QB play here for the past few years. When you're eating ramen noodles every day then microwave pizza seems like gourmet fare. Thing is, you'll get tired of Microwave pizza pretty quick too and then we'll all be back to bitching about drafting a QBOTF.
Orton had a really good game against Green Bay by anybody's standards.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm tired of the OT in first talk every year. We can get one in later rounds or free agency.
If we want a new face of franchise trade up get QB sign orton and let the fun begin.
If not then trade down draft the one thing this D needs a ILB by DJ the thumper to shut down runs up the middle.
This team isn't as far away as most think
If you want to shut down runs up the middle, we need a NT.
vailpass
12-20-2011, 01:34 PM
Orton is definitely the answer for KC at QB. If the Chiefs can sign Orton they should do it, even if they have to win a bidding war with another team.
whoman69
12-20-2011, 01:35 PM
I don't really think anyone truly believes Orton to be a long term answer. He's more of the Kreig, Bono, Grbac retread mode. I think you need a good backup like Orton on the team, but that's really all he is.
chiefscafan
12-20-2011, 01:40 PM
We need both NT and ILB. I think a rookie ILB can make an impact quicker than a NT. Heck we might have him in powe.
Buckweath
12-20-2011, 01:51 PM
The only thing I will say in Orton's defense:
He never had a running game AND a defense in Denver.
The Broncos were 18th in rushing and 7th in defense his first year.
His second year they were 26th in rushing and 32nd in defense.
In KC he will most likely have a top 10 running game and top 15 defense next season.
FAIL! We don`t want of a QB who needs a good running game and a good defense to perform. We want one of those QBs that can actually do a good job without a running game and a stout defense. That`s why we have to trade up to get that top QB prospect that might be one of those QBs.
RealSNR
12-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Orton is definitely the answer for KC at QB. If the Chiefs can sign Orton they should do it, even if they have to win a bidding war with another team.
You, sir, are good. You are very good.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 01:54 PM
We need both NT and ILB. I think a rookie ILB can make an impact quicker than a NT. Heck we might have him in powe.
If Powe is the answer at NT, then Belcher is the answer at ILB.
ILB is WAY down on the list of needs, sorry.
Chiefnj2
12-20-2011, 01:55 PM
It's the player, not the position.
DBOSHO
12-20-2011, 01:57 PM
I dont think Orton can be a top 5 quarterback, but with the weapons around him and this defense with Berry back, we can be a contender.
FlaChief58
12-20-2011, 01:58 PM
There's a reason Broncos fans hated him.
Pressure mostly turns him into a puddle of goo.
This and he throws a shitload of picks and he has a hard time finishing drives. That said, I'm good with him as a stopgap until our QBOTF is ready to go.
bevischief
12-20-2011, 02:03 PM
I dont think Orton can be a top 5 quarterback, but with the weapons around him and this defense with Berry back, we can be a contender.
More of a contender with Orton than with Cassel.
htismaqe
12-20-2011, 02:03 PM
It's the player, not the position.
He's not good enough to make it about "the player, not the position".
He's being projected right now between 1-25 and 1-30. We'll be picking much higher than that, even if we win out.
bricks
12-20-2011, 02:13 PM
If the Chiefs win out, that puts them in a position to not draft a quarterback.
All those guys, Luck, Griffin III, and Barkley are going top 10.
The only guy that may be available is Tannehill.
I don't see the Chiefs trading up to try and get either Luck, Barkley, or Griffin III. It's just gonna involve too much compensation. Do they go with Tannehill if he falls to them? I don't know.
But one thing is for certain, and I may get bashed for saying this, they could use an offensive lineman. Wiegmann is old, Lilja could be replaced, Richardson needs to be shown the door because we all know he ain't even adequate enough.
Realistically, you have to think Oline. Its the reality and the nature of how things may be played out for this franchise. I think there will be some Olineman available when the Chiefs pick.
Sorry guys. Just being a realist here.
KC_Lee
12-20-2011, 02:26 PM
If the Chiefs win out, that puts them in a position to not draft a quarterback.
All those guys, Luck, Griffin III, and Barkley are going top 10.
The only guy that may be available is Tannehill.
I don't see the Chiefs trading up to try and get either Luck, Barkley, or Griffin III. It's just gonna involve too much compensation. Do they go with Tannehill if he falls to them? I don't know.
But one thing is for certain, and I may get bashed for saying this, they could use an offensive lineman. Wiegmann is old, Lilja could be replaced, Richardson needs to be shown the door because we all know he ain't even adequate enough.
Realistically, you have to think Oline. Its the reality and the nature of how things may be played out for this franchise. I think there will be some Olineman available when the Chiefs pick.
Sorry guys. Just being a realist here.
But we could pick up Landry Jones!!!
http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php
DaWolf
12-20-2011, 02:44 PM
If the Chiefs win out, that puts them in a position to not draft a quarterback.
All those guys, Luck, Griffin III, and Barkley are going top 10.
The only guy that may be available is Tannehill.
I don't see the Chiefs trading up to try and get either Luck, Barkley, or Griffin III. It's just gonna involve too much compensation. Do they go with Tannehill if he falls to them? I don't know.
But one thing is for certain, and I may get bashed for saying this, they could use an offensive lineman. Wiegmann is old, Lilja could be replaced, Richardson needs to be shown the door because we all know he ain't even adequate enough.
Realistically, you have to think Oline. Its the reality and the nature of how things may be played out for this franchise. I think there will be some Olineman available when the Chiefs pick.
Sorry guys. Just being a realist here.
We need to have one of those lucky years where a guy like Aaron Rodgers plummets down the board and into our laps...
vailpass
12-20-2011, 02:51 PM
You, sir, are good. You are very good.
And I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.
bricks
12-20-2011, 02:53 PM
We need to have one of those lucky years where a guy like Aaron Rodgers plummets down the board and into our laps...
We'll see.
But, Im not feeling too optmistic about it.
I think there are a lot of teams that will be picking before the Chiefs that are in need of Quarterbacks.
i.e, Miami, Cleveland, Washington, Indy, possibly Buffalo? QB's will be just to ripe for the picking.
DeezNutz
12-20-2011, 02:55 PM
A well-trained group are we. Strong the True Fan in this fanbase is. Yeesssss....
Anytime you can sign Steve DeOrton and get the play-action pass hitting on all cylinders, you simply have to take that shot.
Baby Lee
12-20-2011, 03:03 PM
you do realize that pressure turns most QB's into a puddle of goo?
Pressure turned the best QB in the league [yes, I said it, best] into a puddle of goo in Arrowhead last Sunday.
That's one of the things about NFL football I love best, watching an 'unstoppable' QB get rattled when the pressure comes and the WRs get blanket covered and then, heaven forbid, the INT. Suddenly, not so unstoppable. We used to do it all the time in the 90s. Did it numerous times against Manning and Rivers more recently. Love it.
Baby Lee
12-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Chiefs fans will do anything to rationalize avoiding having to draft and develop a first round QB.
Nobody's [at least not the OVERWHELMING majority] doing that. At most they're saying that's not the ONLY thing to do.
But then, as we know, your analysis of the NFL has turned into one big 'OR Gate.'
DeezNutz
12-20-2011, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't be against signing Orton as the vet. starter and drafting a QB. But if this organization does the former, I simply don't think they'll do the latter.
Too often, the organization jumps in with both feet when the smell of vet. backup wafts through the air.
The Franchise
12-20-2011, 03:10 PM
We need both NT and ILB. I think a rookie ILB can make an impact quicker than a NT. Heck we might have him in powe.
FS is a bigger need than ILB.
wutamess
12-20-2011, 03:10 PM
Didn't Orton start as a rookie over Grossman in
Chicago?
Yes... Rich Gannonesque... He spelled an injured Grossman... Played well and Marty let Grbac... er Grossman back in for the playoffs. The fans believe they could've went to the SB if Orton was the QB instead of Grossman.
Just saying.
rocknrolla
12-20-2011, 03:23 PM
I re-watched the DirecTV 30 minute condensed game and Kyle Orton's performance was the first time since Trent Green that we've had a quarterback who could read the defense and make the throw. I don't know how good Orton can be, but he reminded me of Trent Green even more the second time I watched the game. He's certainly good enough to be our starter while we groom an early pick.
Kyle Orton is on a completely different level than Matt Cassel.
I couldn't agree more. I really think Orton could put up better numbers than ever, with the weapons we have and if everyone is healthy next year. Something he has never had.
durtyrute
12-20-2011, 03:28 PM
I couldn't agree more. I really think Orton could put up better numbers than ever, with the weapons we have and if everyone is healthy next year. Something he has never had.
In one game after only being here two weeks, Orton has looked better than Cassel EVER has or ever will. TWO WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.gettingstrongnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/total-recall-two-weeks-490.jpg
Quesadilla Joe
12-20-2011, 03:28 PM
Orton has a way of fooling coaching staffs in the offseason. He is the best practice player in NFL history and plays great in the preseason. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs get tricked into thinking Orton can be a longterm answer and then realize a year or two later they have been fooled.
Hammock Parties
12-20-2011, 03:31 PM
Pressure turned the best QB in the league [yes, I said it, best] into a puddle of goo in Arrowhead last Sunday.
.
Actually, it didn't.
The Packers dropped SEVEN PASSES in the first half ALONE.
durtyrute
12-20-2011, 03:35 PM
Actually, it didn't.
The Packers dropped SEVEN PASSES in the first half ALONE.
The majority of the pressure came in the second half.
rocknrolla
12-20-2011, 03:45 PM
Who cares? We've been operating $30mil under the cap.
REP!
MahiMike
12-20-2011, 09:15 PM
Orton is to the Chiefs what Gannon was to the Raiders. A journeyman that finally gets to the promised land!
Brock
12-20-2011, 09:17 PM
Orton is to the Chiefs what Gannon was to the Raiders. A journeyman that finally gets to the promised land!
LMAO
patteeu
12-20-2011, 09:20 PM
Orton is to the Chiefs what Gannon was to the Raiders. A journeyman that finally gets to the promised land!
I was thinking something similar. When the Chiefs are deciding whether to continue with Cassel or try to sign Orton, they're facing a similar dilemma as the one Carl Peterson faced with Gannon and Grbac. Gannon's contract was up so financially it made more sense to retain Grbac and let Gannon go just like it would be cheaper to keep Cassel than switch to Orton now. Going for the dollar-wise option hurt last time around.
patteeu
12-20-2011, 09:22 PM
Of course, I don't think Cassel is as bad as Grbac and I don't think Orton is as good as Gannon, so the decision might not be as important to the Chiefs' near-future as it was then.
Tombstone RJ
12-20-2011, 09:24 PM
OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.
I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.
I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.
I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
Your dad is right, sorry kid...
BigMeatballDave
12-20-2011, 09:26 PM
Orton has a way of fooling coaching staffs in the offseason. He is the best practice player in NFL history and plays great in the preseason. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs get tricked into thinking Orton can be a longterm answer and then realize a year or two later they have been fooled.
LMAO
This isn't what you said about Orton just last season.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Nobody's [at least not the OVERWHELMING majority] doing that. At most they're saying that's not the ONLY thing to do.
But then, as we know, your analysis of the NFL has turned into one big 'OR Gate.'
A guy who was waived by a team starting Tim Tebow at quarterback is now, after one game, considered a potential solution for a team that hasn't had a dependable franchise-level QB in 40 years.
Think about how goddamned myopic that is.
Saying he's better than Cassel isn't saying much.
maybe so but at least he can actually move us down the field and keep our D rested. Something CAssel can't seem to achieve.
Okie_Apparition
12-21-2011, 12:02 AM
F O U R
4 dropped passes
BigMeatballDave
12-21-2011, 12:20 AM
Chiefs fans will do anything to rationalize avoiding having to draft and develop a first round QB.
Outside of maybe a few, who here is doing this?
Outside of maybe a few, who here is doing this?
I second this.
BigMeatballDave
12-21-2011, 12:29 AM
I second this.
I'd say 99% of us regular users are onboard with drafting a franchise QB.
I'd say 99% of us regular users are onboard with drafting a franchise QB.
I'm not sure I have even seen a post indicating that Orton should be our future. ONly that he should be the stopgap as the Chiefs develop a draft pick.
RealSNR
12-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Outside of maybe a few, who here is doing this?
Chiefs Planet is a poor representation of the actual fan base. The genious loosers over at Arrowhead Pride and other sites caption your average Chiefs fan much better
Cut C@$$hole and Palko.
Resign Orton to a 3 year deal.
Draft the best QB we can trade up for...
YUP
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2011, 12:33 AM
There is no more anti-homer Chiefs board than CP, and in just this thread and the "Orton should be given a chance" thread, you have the following posts, all from separate members
If the most iconoclastic board is posting this, what do you think the temperature of the room is?
Did Trent Dilfer win the Super Bowl, or did the Ravens?
Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman...
you can get to the Super Bowl with a terrible QB...
Peyton Manning is a bit different with the Colts. Indeed, clearly, the data is "in" on that score...
My favorite - Jeff Hostetler - clearly he won the Super Bowl, and Lawrence Taylor and the NYG D had nothing to do with it...
Step 1. Sign Orton.
Step 2. Cut Cassel.
Step 3. Kick Cassel in the nuts.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Profit!
OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.
I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.
I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.
I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
Giving away draft picks to move up when you still have holes to fill for a QB who might be Ryan Leaf, David Carr, etc etc is stupid.
If we had the Oline fixed, a nose tackle, ILB, another pass rusher and a RB to complement Charles. Sure give all our picks to get one of the top 2 QBs....but we don't.
Sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal and keep looking for the next Tom Brady later in draft. Orton is still young and seems to still be improving. He will make us a playoff caliber team at the worst and who knows he might be a Gannon or Simms type QB and get to a superbowl.
I agree with most of this. I don't like the idea of giving away picks to move up for anyone. We have no idea how they will play in the NFL. Plus, we still have some holes to fill. I'd say keep Orton (Cassel and Palko exit stage left) and go BPA in the draft. If it's a QB in the first, great, if not find one later. Then next year roll with Orton while Stanzi and QBX sit and watch. In two years, QB comp between QBX and Stanzi and we roll with the winner.
Yep, that looks like about 1%.:)
BigMeatballDave
12-21-2011, 12:41 AM
Chiefs Planet is a poor representation of the actual fan base. The genious loosers over at Arrowhead Pride and other sites caption your average Chiefs fan much better
Probably. I've heard about the dumbassery that goes on at those sites, so I choose to never
subject myself to it.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2011, 12:43 AM
Yep, that looks like about 1%.:)
Here are some more gems
Orton can stay in KC as long as he wants, IMO. Remember this... he is playing with a fucked up throwing hand!
I was very impressed with him. Great game. It is only ONE game, but I was NEVER this encouraged with Casshole.
If Orton plays out the rest of the season like he did today, he deserves the starting job hands down with no concern for "competition". I wasn't an Orton supporter but after not having a real quarterback in this offense since Trent Green, the potential of this team looks completely different with him in there. I believe a win like this could absolutely bond players with coach, with quarterback. If he continues like he did today, we should not draft a QB first round, he shouldn't have to look over his shoulder. The job should be completely his. If a highly ranked qb falls to a lower round, that's different.
Not me. I said he was as good as Carson Palmer and WAY cheaper. I'll go ahead and say we no longer need to think QB in the draft.
Just giving you shit Hamas. There are always going to be idiots on this site. Hell, we have probably all been said idiot at some point.
SPchief
12-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Just giving you shit Hamas. There are always going to be idiots on this site. Hell, we have probably all been said idiot at some point.
Well duh, hindsight is always 50/50 here
Phobia
12-21-2011, 01:07 AM
Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure. The idea is to keep pressure off of him and provide a quick outlet for when the defense is bringing the heat. That's why talent evaluaters talk about film-work and reading a defense as keys to a QB's success.
Well duh, hindsight is always 50/50 here
LMAO
Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure. The idea is to keep pressure off of him and provide a quick outlet for when the defense is bringing the heat. That's why talent evaluaters talk about film-work and reading a defense as keys to a QB's success.
Whoa, you just made a post that didn't mention 50 years of NFL history.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2011, 01:54 AM
Just giving you shit Hamas. There are always going to be idiots on this site. Hell, we have probably all been said idiot at some point.
Or many points :sulk:
johnny961
12-21-2011, 02:10 AM
Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure. The idea is to keep pressure off of him and provide a quick outlet for when the defense is bringing the heat. That's why talent evaluaters talk about film-work and reading a defense as keys to a QB's success.
Yep. Even the games best QB's make some stupid mistakes when they have a 300 LB lineman breathing down their neck.
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 04:43 AM
Every single QB in the history of the NFL turns to goo under pressure.
Wrong.
Some guys have the ability to make a throw or make a play with their legs when the pressure comes and some don't.
Phobia
12-21-2011, 04:56 AM
Wrong.
I didn't share an opinion, Clay. It's a fact that quarterbacks do not perform at their peak while being pressured. You're the only person who wants to argue to the contrary.
Phobia
12-21-2011, 04:57 AM
Whoa, you just made a post that didn't mention 50 years of NFL history.
I've definitely overused that statement the past 24 hours or so. I was just following my little buddy's lead.
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 05:00 AM
I didn't share an opinion, Clay. It's a fact that quarterbacks do not perform at their peak while being pressured. You're the only person who wants to argue to the contrary.
Some perform better than others under pressure. Also a fact.
Orton has issues.
Phobia
12-21-2011, 05:18 AM
Some perform better than others under pressure. Also a fact.
No question. You could have said it that way instead of saying "WRONG" and we wouldn't even be having this exchange.
Orton has issues.
I agree. He folds under pressure. That's not surprising. I don't think he has any kind of superior decision making or escapability either. To his credit, he uses his blocks well and slides around the pocket with ease. He also makes quick reads and gets rid of the ball efficiently. Nobody is going to mistake Orton for a superstar QB but he's better than anybody the Chiefs have had in years. I would even go so far as to say he's better than Trent Green.
In a nutshell, I won't cry myself to sleep if the Chiefs keep Orton for 2012. He's not nearly as good as he looked vs. the Packers but he's nowhere near as bad as he's looked at times wearing a bear or horse on his helmet.
Deberg_1990
12-21-2011, 07:18 AM
No question. You could have said it that way instead of saying "WRONG" and we wouldn't even be having this exchange.
I agree. He folds under pressure. That's not surprising. I don't think he has any kind of superior decision making or escapability either. To his credit, he uses his blocks well and slides around the pocket with ease. He also makes quick reads and gets rid of the ball efficiently. Nobody is going to mistake Orton for a superstar QB but he's better than anybody the Chiefs have had in years. I would even go so far as to say he's better than Trent Green.
In a nutshell, I won't cry myself to sleep if the Chiefs keep Orton for 2012. He's not nearly as good as he looked vs. the Packers but he's nowhere near as bad as he's looked at times wearing a bear or horse on his helmet.
Simply put, Orton is a top 15 QB in the NFL. Cassel is a bottom 25-32 guy. It shouldnt be a hard decision for the Chiefs.
Denny
12-21-2011, 07:30 AM
OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.
At least PART of the "same stats as Cassel" has to do with the way he'd been utilized.
In Chicago, after they elevated him to starter, the coaches allowed Kyle a great deal of leeway in his on-field decision-making. He would often audible out of a pass play and into a run - even at the LoS - if that were the best play for the TEAM. He didn't give a rat's ass about puffing up his stats, he wanted his team to win. If that meant only throwing 10 passes in a game and running it the rest of the time, that's what happened. Worked fairly well too - KO was 21-12 (.636) as a starter in Chicago.
In Denver, he ran into the opposite situation. The HC (McDumbass) was obsessively controlling with an ego that demanded EVERYTHING be done his way, no deviations allowed. The play that was sent in had better be the play that was run, regardless of the actual situation on the field. That eventually ended up with the entire Offense being thrown onto Orton's arm. Kyle has a good QB skillset, but few QBs could carry a team like Denver without ANY help from the Defense, ST or run game.
I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.
Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.
I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.
I've followed Orton's entire pro career. I have NEVER seen an entire group of WRs fight so hard to catch and advance the ball as they were doing for Kyle in the Green Bay game. They sure seemed to appreciate the fact that Orton was getting the ball to them and giving them the opportunity to do something with it.
I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!
Because Orton was tagged as a "game-manager" in his rookie year playing for Chicago. He had little support from the FO who were still touting Rex Grossman as the QBotF for the Bears and insisted that Kyle was simply filling in.
So, the perception was established of KO simply being "adequate" but you can do better. Sure you can. There's another Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees out there. Somewhere. Maybe. But those guys are very few and very far between. And not always recognized as "THE GUY." Out of that group, only P. Manning was seen that way going into the draft. And at the time, there was a great debate as to whether Peyton or RYAN LEAF was the better pro prospect. It's virtually impossible to KNOW who's going to be great and who's going to be a bust.
A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." The Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli Manning. The Ravens did it with Trent Difler. Since then they've made the post-season 3 consecutive years with Joe Flacco. The Jets have gone to the AFC title game repeatedly with Mark Sanchez. The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman under center. The 49ers have clinched the NFC West with Alex Smith.
Yet the Cardinals are floundering with Kevin Kolb. The Chargers are repeatedly one-and-done in the playoffs with Phillip Rivers. The Eagles are falling apart with Mike Vick. The Cowboys can't get anywhere with Tony Romo.
You can keep spinning your wheels thrashing about in a vain search for the next "great" QB and keep your team in a constant state of self-destructive chaos. Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 07:32 AM
Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.
Marshall's numbers are relatively the same in Miami, not counting TDs.
Orton is a good QB but let's not puff him up too much.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 07:38 AM
At least PART of the "same stats as Cassel" has to do with the way he'd been utilized.
In Chicago, after they elevated him to starter, the coaches allowed Kyle a great deal of leeway in his on-field decision-making. He would often audible out of a pass play and into a run - even at the LoS - if that were the best play for the TEAM. He didn't give a rat's ass about puffing up his stats, he wanted his team to win. If that meant only throwing 10 passes in a game and running it the rest of the time, that's what happened. Worked fairly well too - KO was 21-12 (.636) as a starter in Chicago.
In Denver, he ran into the opposite situation. The HC (McDumbass) was obsessively controlling with an ego that demanded EVERYTHING be done his way, no deviations allowed. The play that was sent in had better be the play that was run, regardless of the actual situation on the field. That eventually ended up with the entire Offense being thrown onto Orton's arm. Kyle has a good QB skillset, but few QBs could carry a team like Denver without ANY help from the Defense, ST or run game.
Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.
I've followed Orton's entire pro career. I have NEVER seen an entire group of WRs fight so hard to catch and advance the ball as they were doing for Kyle in the Green Bay game. They sure seemed to appreciate the fact that Orton was getting the ball to them and giving them the opportunity to do something with it.
Because Orton was tagged as a "game-manager" in his rookie year playing for Chicago. He had little support from the FO who were still touting Rex Grossman as the QBotF for the Bears and insisted that Kyle was simply filling in.
So, the perception was established of KO simply being "adequate" but you can do better. Sure you can. There's another Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees out there. Somewhere. Maybe. But those guys are very few and very far between. And not always recognized as "THE GUY." Out of that group, only P. Manning was seen that way going into the draft. And at the time, there was a great debate as to whether Peyton or RYAN LEAF was the better pro prospect. It's virtually impossible to KNOW who's going to be great and who's going to be a bust.
A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." The Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli Manning. The Ravens did it with Trent Difler. Since then they've made the post-season 3 consecutive years with Joe Flacco. The Jets have gone to the AFC title game repeatedly with Mark Sanchez. The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman under center. The 49ers have clinched the NFC West with Alex Smith.
Yet the Cardinals are floundering with Kevin Kolb. The Chargers are repeatedly one-and-done in the playoffs with Phillip Rivers. The Eagles are falling apart with Mike Vick. The Cowboys can't get anywhere with Tony Romo.
You can keep spinning your wheels thrashing about in a vain search for the next "great" QB and keep your team in a constant state of self-destructive chaos. Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...
Eli Manning is 'simply adequate'?
you have to be Carl Peterson...did you lean in your chair and fart while typing that crap?
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 07:40 AM
Eli Manning is 'simply adequate'?
you have to be Carl Peterson...did you lean in your chair and fart while typing that crap?
Manning wasn't particularly good the year the Giants won the Super Bowl. He threw 20 INT.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 07:44 AM
Manning wasn't particularly good the year the Giants won the Super Bowl. He threw 20 INT.
he was clutch all through the playoffs
and he was acquired in the first round...you don't get him as some vet cast off like Orton...if you want to use Manning as an example, the lesson is simple: draft in the 1st
there is nothing in common between him and orton
Denny
12-21-2011, 07:47 AM
Marshall's numbers are relatively the same in Miami, not counting TDs.
Orton is a good QB but let's not puff him up too much.
Not claiming that KO is great. In fact, I think that I characterized him as "good."
My point is that even just "good" is better than most people realize. And it helps the rest of the team to perform better.
BTW, B-Marsh's TD total for the last 2 years combined in Miami is 8. He had 10 in a single season with KO throwing to him. Marshall was expected to tank in Denver after the great Jay Cutler left. Instead he set an NFL record for most receptions in a single game (20), was chosen as AFC Offensive Player of the Week and went to a 2nd consecutive Pro Bowl. That was also his last 100 catch season. That was Orton helping Marshall to be as good as he could be.
bevischief
12-21-2011, 07:49 AM
At least PART of the "same stats as Cassel" has to do with the way he'd been utilized.
In Chicago, after they elevated him to starter, the coaches allowed Kyle a great deal of leeway in his on-field decision-making. He would often audible out of a pass play and into a run - even at the LoS - if that were the best play for the TEAM. He didn't give a rat's ass about puffing up his stats, he wanted his team to win. If that meant only throwing 10 passes in a game and running it the rest of the time, that's what happened. Worked fairly well too - KO was 21-12 (.636) as a starter in Chicago.
In Denver, he ran into the opposite situation. The HC (McDumbass) was obsessively controlling with an ego that demanded EVERYTHING be done his way, no deviations allowed. The play that was sent in had better be the play that was run, regardless of the actual situation on the field. That eventually ended up with the entire Offense being thrown onto Orton's arm. Kyle has a good QB skillset, but few QBs could carry a team like Denver without ANY help from the Defense, ST or run game.
Not to mention that Brandon Marshall has dropped off the face of the Earth after moving to Miami. BM set NFL records with Kyle throwing to him.
I've followed Orton's entire pro career. I have NEVER seen an entire group of WRs fight so hard to catch and advance the ball as they were doing for Kyle in the Green Bay game. They sure seemed to appreciate the fact that Orton was getting the ball to them and giving them the opportunity to do something with it.
Because Orton was tagged as a "game-manager" in his rookie year playing for Chicago. He had little support from the FO who were still touting Rex Grossman as the QBotF for the Bears and insisted that Kyle was simply filling in.
So, the perception was established of KO simply being "adequate" but you can do better. Sure you can. There's another Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees out there. Somewhere. Maybe. But those guys are very few and very far between. And not always recognized as "THE GUY." Out of that group, only P. Manning was seen that way going into the draft. And at the time, there was a great debate as to whether Peyton or RYAN LEAF was the better pro prospect. It's virtually impossible to KNOW who's going to be great and who's going to be a bust.
A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." The Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli Manning. The Ravens did it with Trent Difler. Since then they've made the post-season 3 consecutive years with Joe Flacco. The Jets have gone to the AFC title game repeatedly with Mark Sanchez. The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman under center. The 49ers have clinched the NFC West with Alex Smith.
Yet the Cardinals are floundering with Kevin Kolb. The Chargers are repeatedly one-and-done in the playoffs with Phillip Rivers. The Eagles are falling apart with Mike Vick. The Cowboys can't get anywhere with Tony Romo.
You can keep spinning your wheels thrashing about in a vain search for the next "great" QB and keep your team in a constant state of self-destructive chaos. Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...
:clap:
Carlota69
12-21-2011, 07:55 AM
KYLE ORTON IS THE ANSWER....for now and probably for the next year or two IF he signs with us. However, why would he sign with us if we keep Cassel and he has other offers to be the starter? Im sure KO doesnt want to go thru what he did in Denver again.
I hope the FO is smart enough to trade MC and sign KO and then draft the best QB possible, whether thats trade up (maybe MC could be part of a trade up situation) or find a gem late in the 1st round or 2nd round.
All I know is when I was watching the game on sunday, I held my breath when KO threw the ball and then quickly realized that he could actually throw the ball-far sometimes. We havent had a QB who could throw the ball--far--since TG. We havent really looked like a real football team all year until Sunday. KO is part of the reason.
KYLE ORTON IS THE ANSWER...for now. Lets hope the FO does whats best for this team
Denny
12-21-2011, 07:55 AM
Eli Manning is 'simply adequate'?
you have to be Carl Peterson...did you lean in your chair and fart while typing that crap?
No idea who "Carl Peterson" is.
Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB. The season they won the Super Bowl, he had a passer rating of 73.9. His completion rate was only 56.1%. He averaged only 6.3 Yards Per Attempt. That's been Eli for most of his career - good but definitely NOT "great." Good enough to allow his team to win.
Chiefnj2
12-21-2011, 08:13 AM
A team can do very well with a QB that simply "adequate." Or you can go with a "good" or "adequate" QB and build a winning team...
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
Denny
12-21-2011, 08:15 AM
KYLE ORTON IS THE ANSWER....for now and probably for the next year or two IF he signs with us. However, why would he sign with us if we keep Cassel and he has other offers to be the starter? Im sure KO doesnt want to go thru what he did in Denver again.
I don't know about KO being "the" answer, but he can certainly be "an" answer. A good enough answer to help the Chiefs win - especially in a weak division like the AFC West.
I hope the FO is smart enough to trade MC and sign KO and then draft the best QB possible, whether thats trade up (maybe MC could be part of a trade up situation) or find a gem late in the 1st round or 2nd round.
KO wants to be a starter, not a fill-in or a bridge or a mentor. He won't want to play for a team that's actively looking for his replacement.
If Cassel stays, no matter how much better Kyle might play, MC's contract will probably block him being bench for Orton.
If a QB is drafted in the 1st or 2nd round, fan pressure will quickly build to "give him a chance" just like it did in Denver with Tebow. Look at how many posters on this board are insisting on that for Stanzi - a 5th rounder who should probably never make it off the practice squad.
All I know is when I was watching the game on sunday, I held my breath when KO threw the ball and then quickly realized that he could actually throw the ball-far sometimes. We havent had a QB who could throw the ball--far--since TG. We havent really looked like a real football team all year until Sunday. KO is part of the reason.
Yeah, KO has enough of an arm to make all the NFL throws, anywhere on the field. If he's given adequate protection, he can pick apart a Secondary. Good field vision, can go thru his progressions quickly, above average decision-making skills and solid mechanics that enable him to get rid of the ball in a hurry.
KC_Lee
12-21-2011, 08:15 AM
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 08:15 AM
Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB.
He has been the last three seasons.
He's a different player than he was earlier in his career.
htismaqe
12-21-2011, 08:38 AM
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
Exactly.
Denny
12-21-2011, 08:41 AM
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
Sorry, but I don't rate Cassel as high as "adequate." Or Thigpen. Or Huard. Trent Green was the last KC QB even in that range.
Looking back thru the Chiefs draft history back to 1960, the only QBs who's names I recognize are Brody Croyle and Steve Fuller. Fuller was a good backup for Jim McMahon on the Super Bowl Bears of the 80s. That's the absolute best they've ever done at drafting the QB position.
KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...
Reerun_KC
12-21-2011, 08:43 AM
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
Lock this thread now...
ChiefNJ2 just gave a lesson on Adequate QB play..
Well done sir...
Chiefnj2
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...
After 40 years of failure, yes, I would like them to try the approach that works for other teams. I'd rather take a new direction for the next 4 years rather than continue 44 years of a plan that has failed horribly.
htismaqe
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
Sorry, but I don't rate Cassel as high as "adequate." Or Thigpen. Or Huard. Trent Green was the last KC QB even in that range.
Looking back thru the Chiefs draft history back to 1960, the only QBs who's names I recognize are Brody Croyle and Steve Fuller. Fuller was a good backup for Jim McMahon on the Super Bowl Bears of the 80s. That's the absolute best they've ever done at drafting the QB position.
KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...
Risk what? A Super Bowl?
We've already suffered through SIX YEARS of Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, and Matt fucking Cassel. You're worried about the next 4?
This kind of scaredy cat thinking is just silly.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
Sorry, but I don't rate Cassel as high as "adequate." Or Thigpen. Or Huard. Trent Green was the last KC QB even in that range.
Looking back thru the Chiefs draft history back to 1960, the only QBs who's names I recognize are Brody Croyle and Steve Fuller. Fuller was a good backup for Jim McMahon on the Super Bowl Bears of the 80s. That's the absolute best they've ever done at drafting the QB position.
KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...
um, what QBs have KC drafted in the first?
they've run out legions of your 'adequate' QBs and to claim otherwise is dishonest...we've tried it your way for decades with only failure as a result
imagine if one time in 30 years we tried it a different way...one fucking time
but Chiefs fans are in love with mediocrity...decades of it are fine as long as we never do something risky like drafting a QB
htismaqe
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
After 40 years of failure, yes, I would like them to try the approach that works for other teams. I'd rather take a new direction for the next 4 years rather than continue 44 years of a plan that has failed horribly.
:clap::clap::clap:
notorious
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
That has been KC's plan for the last 40 years and you know what it has gotten the franchise? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, crap, horseshit. They keep playing "adequate" at QB and continually fail to make the playoffs or get the crap kicked out of them in the 1st round because of that merely "adequate" QB.
Now that is what I am talking about!
wutamess
12-21-2011, 08:51 AM
I would even go so far as to say he's better than Trent Green.
I thought it! You said it! Trent Green was a overrated bum that excelled at dumping the ball to Priest Holmes. Serviceable? Yes! A franchise qb? Hell NO!
KC_Lee
12-21-2011, 08:53 AM
KC just doesn't have any history of being able to draft a QB at all. Yet now, that's exactly what you want to risk the team's next 4-5 years on...
So because a team whiffs on a QB pick they should never try it again?
I better let the Titans know that they should not have drafted Locker because Young was a bust.
Chiefnj2
12-21-2011, 08:57 AM
Denny, what team do you root for? I'm assuming it's not KC since you said you didn't know who Peterson was.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Denny, what team do you root for? I'm assuming it's not KC since you said you didn't know who Peterson was.
The Fighting Neckbeards
wutamess
12-21-2011, 09:02 AM
Denny, what team do you root for? I'm assuming it's not KC since you said you didn't know who Peterson was.
Shouldn't matter... Orton is the best pure passer/best decision maker we've had since probably Grbac's probowl year. Before that... I don't remember Lenny playing but I'm guessing maybe it was him? :shrug:
Hammock Parties
12-21-2011, 09:03 AM
Orton is not better than Trent Green.
Comparable, yes. Better, no. Green was throwing for 4,000 back when it meant something.
Chiefnj2
12-21-2011, 09:07 AM
Shouldn't matter... Orton is the best pure passer/best decision maker we've had since probably Grbac's probowl year. Before that... I don't remember Lenny playing but I'm guessing maybe it was him? :shrug:
I assume you are being serious.
Best pure passer and decision maker based on 1 game?? I guess you crowned his ass already.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:07 AM
Green is better than Orton...and ran a passing offense that makes our current one look like a pee wee league scheme...
Shouldn't matter... Orton is the best pure passer/best decision maker we've had since probably Grbac's probowl year. Before that... I don't remember Lenny playing but I'm guessing maybe it was him? :shrug:
Fuck off /Trent Green.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:10 AM
No idea who "Carl Peterson" is.
Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB. The season they won the Super Bowl, he had a passer rating of 73.9. His completion rate was only 56.1%. He averaged only 6.3 Yards Per Attempt. That's been Eli for most of his career - good but definitely NOT "great." Good enough to allow his team to win.
you don't know who Carl Peterson is?
wtf??
and manning is in fact an Elite QB....he's also a first round QB who won a superbowl by playing great in the playoffs
and you are ****ing clueless...as are most Chiefs fans when it comes to QBs
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:13 AM
He's not a Chiefs fan...just an Orton fanboy it appears.
wutamess
12-21-2011, 09:17 AM
I assume you are being serious.
Best pure passer and decision maker based on 1 game?? I guess you crowned his ass already.
I saw someone Sunday that could make all the throws accurately. Trent Green had a Cassle arm which is why he relied on Priest for dumpoffs so much. Rarely he went down the field unless it was to TG or 10 yard outs to EK.
As far as the Chiefs go... CROWN HIS ASS! HE WAS, WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS!
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:20 AM
I saw someone Sunday that could make all the throws accurately. Trent Green had a Cassle arm which is why he relied on Priest for dumpoffs so much. Rarely he went down the field unless it was to TG.
As far as the Chiefs go... CROWN HIS ASS! HE WAS, WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS!
huh?
Saunders offense lived on intermediate routes for WRs...what in the hell are you talking about...it was a vertical offense unlike this sideline/bubble screen crap we run now
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Green put up 3 straight 4000 yard seasons as a chief (top was 4500 yards), followed by two 3700 yard seasons...he had 5 straight seasons with 60+ completion percentages...4 straight seasons with a QB rating of 90+
Orton and Cassel can't hold his rather large ****ing jock
Beef Supreme
12-21-2011, 09:28 AM
Thank you. I get tired of people who didn't watch the Chiefs or were too young to remember saying how average Trent Green was. He was a fucking stud.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:30 AM
I saw someone Sunday that could make all the throws accurately. Trent Green had a Cassle arm which is why he relied on Priest for dumpoffs so much. Rarely he went down the field unless it was to TG or 10 yard outs to EK.
As far as the Chiefs go... CROWN HIS ASS! HE WAS, WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS!
This may be one of the most inaccurate posts in CP history.
patteeu
12-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Thank you. I get tired of people who didn't watch the Chiefs or were too young to remember saying how average Trent Green was. He was a ****ing stud.
Trent Green was surrounded by the best offensive talent the Chiefs have had in 40 years. Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Will Shields, and Tony G, among others, sure help make a QB look good.
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:37 AM
I'm going to compare the 3 QB's to the musclemen from that credit score commercial...
Green is the 870 score guy
Orton represents the 750
Cassel is that runt dude with the 400 score
Chiefnj2
12-21-2011, 09:42 AM
I honestly love threads like this, because it identifies people that I know I shouldn't waste my time debating with. I know Denny is 100% happy with retread QBs and he is afraid to take a chance drafting a young QB because he's happy with the last 40 years.
I know wutamess is going to be a knee-jerk reaction kid. 1 good game by Cutler (no TD passes and stalling in the redzone) outweighs several years of really good QB play by Green. No point debating anything.
whosyou
12-21-2011, 09:45 AM
Trent green was great but he never had a season as good as Cassel's best 27 td 7 ints
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:46 AM
Trent green was great but he never had a season as good as Cassel's best 27 td 7 ints
LMAO
throw yourself off a high building
Beef Supreme
12-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Trent Green was surrounded by the best offensive talent the Chiefs have had in 40 years. Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Will Shields, and Tony G, among others, sure help make a QB look good.
Hey waddya know, it takes more than one guy to make a good football team.
Rasputin
12-21-2011, 09:47 AM
No idea who "Carl Peterson" is.
Eli Manning is NOT an "elite" or "great" QB. The season they won the Super Bowl, he had a passer rating of 73.9. His completion rate was only 56.1%. He averaged only 6.3 Yards Per Attempt. That's been Eli for most of his career - good but definitely NOT "great." Good enough to allow his team to win.
You don't know who Carl Peterson is? AKA the Prince of Darkness, Satan, Beelzebub, Devil, The Evil One, The Hooven Cloof, Pocker, Serpent, Father of Lies, Lucifer, King Carl, The Deceiver, The Antichrist, Abadden, Lord of the Flies, His Satanic Majesty, Mr. Scratch, Old Gooseberry, Belial, and the enemy of God and humankind.
You never heard of him? :shrug:
whosyou
12-21-2011, 09:53 AM
LMAO
throw yourself off a high building
Made of weed? Seriously, Cassel had a magical season last year. If he had the o line and run game Green had, we'd of beat Baltimore last year in the playoffs.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:53 AM
Trent Green was surrounded by the best offensive talent the Chiefs have had in 40 years. Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Will Shields, and Tony G, among others, sure help make a QB look good.
yeah, unlike all those other good QBs who were surrounded by shitty players...thanks for the insight...
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Trent Green was surrounded by the best offensive talent the Chiefs have had in 40 years. Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Will Shields, and Tony G, among others, sure help make a QB look good.
So? Manning was slinging the ball to Harrison, Wayne, and Clark during that time and was the only QB to throw for more yards over a couple years span Green was in KC.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Made of weed? Seriously, Cassel had a magical season last year. If he had the o line and run game Green had, we'd of beat Baltimore last year in the playoffs.
LMAOLMAOLMAO
Charles had a magical season last year....our passing offense was one of the worst in the league
you are a fucking idiot
htismaqe
12-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Made of weed? Seriously, Cassel had a magical season last year. If he had the o line and run game Green had, we'd of beat Baltimore last year in the playoffs.
Post your address so Trent Green can come over and bitch slap you...
Moron.
BoneKrusher
12-21-2011, 09:56 AM
Post your address so Trent Green can come over and bitch slap you...
Moron.
LMAO
Pasta Little Brioni
12-21-2011, 09:57 AM
LMAOLMAOLMAO
Charles had a magical season last year....our passing offense was one of the worst in the league
you are a fucking idiot
Yep, Jamaal Charles is worth 7 points a game to this offense and Cassel isn't worth shit.
the Talking Can
12-21-2011, 10:01 AM
in Cassel's "magical season" he averaged 200 yards per game, completed only 58% of his passes, barely threw for 3000 yards and helmed the 30th rated passing attack in the league...
meanwhile Charles had the second highest yards per carry in nfl history...
Cassel is a joke
FringeNC
12-21-2011, 10:04 AM
Yep, Jamaal Charles is worth 7 points a game to this offense and Cassel isn't worth shit.
Yes he is worth something. And that value is negative. He's below replacement level as Orton made abundantly clear.
KC_Lee
12-21-2011, 10:06 AM
in Cassel's "magical season" he averaged 200 yards per game, completed only 58% of his passes, barely threw for 3000 yards and helmed the 30th rated passing attack in the league...
meanwhile Charles had the second highest yards per carry in nfl history...
Cassel is a joke
Well yes, by Cassel standards that is a "magical" season.
To every other QB worth thier salt that's a piss poor season...
Sofa King
12-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I honestly love threads like this, because it identifies people that I know I shouldn't waste my time debating with. I know Denny is 100% happy with retread QBs and he is afraid to take a chance drafting a young QB because he's happy with the last 40 years.
I know wutamess is going to be a knee-jerk reaction kid. 1 good game by Cutler (no TD passes and stalling in the redzone) outweighs several years of really good QB play by Green. No point debating anything.
When did we acquire Cutler?
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