Lenny on 810 this morning says.."Offensive Line"

[petegz28]

Said doesn't matter who the QB is if your offensive line can't blocka nd can't open holes in the running game. Given the reality of us drafting a QBotF this year I think we are going to see heavy investment into the O-line. I think Piloi is going to view QB as a secondary need since we have Cassel or Orton to throw in for the time being.

[Garcia Bronco]

You already have a pretty good o-line. You'll need a new center.

[evolve27]

Riley Reiff

[petegz28]

You already have a pretty good o-line. You'll need a new center.

We need a new center, RT and possibly LG

[Munson]

It wouldn't surprise me. I think Pioli is too gutless to go after a top QB like RGIII if he declares. So he'll take the easy way out, and maybe even trade down, and take an offensive lineman.

[Iowanian]

The Center was drafted in the 2nd round last year. The Chiefs need a new LG and RT and better depth.

[evolve27]

It wouldn't surprise me. I think Pioli is too gutless to go after a top QB like RGIII if he declares. So he'll take the easy way out, and maybe even trade down, and take an offensive lineman.

RG3 has declared he's entering draft.

[MTG#10]

Our o-line gave Orton plenty of time. Its kind of hard for an o-line to protect a QB who holds on to the ball too long.

[Messier]

We need a new center, RT and possibly LG

Hopefully Hudson steps in at C or G. There are a number of good Ts in the draft, we'll most likely be in a good spot to draft Martin from Stanford.

[suds79]

We need a new center, RT and possibly LG

C - Hudson
LG - Mid to late draft or FA
RT - Probably fairly high in the draft.

Done.

It's not the disaster everybody thinks it is. It's largely replacing RT. Interior guys can always be found later in the draft if you need to.

[Rain Man]

It may be possible to fix the o-line issues without investing a first. You can get a good RT in the second and a good G in the third.

[MoreLemonPledge]

It may be possible to fix the o-line issues without investing a first. You can get a good RT in the second and a good G in the third.

THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IN THIS LEAGUE IS TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE RT IN THE FIRST ROUND

[RINGLEADER]

C - Hudson
LG - Mid to late draft or FA
RT - Probably fairly high in the draft.

Done.

It's not the disaster everybody thinks it is. It's largely replacing RT. Interior guys can always be found later in the draft if you need to.

Yep.

But no Cassel. Please no more Cassel.

[Chris Meck]

It wouldn't surprise me. I think Pioli is too gutless to go after a top QB like RGIII if he declares. So he'll take the easy way out, and maybe even trade down, and take an offensive lineman.

I really don't think it's about being 'gutless'. With the new deal, those early first round QB's are so much less financial risk than before, so it will make it really difficult to offer enough to move up into the #2 or #3 range, which is where Griffin'll probably go.

It is a realistic probability that nothing we could offer within reason (I absolutely would NOT go full Ricky) could get us there.

So we may be realistically looking at the only first round QB talent available will be of the Landry Jones variety (who might be Ryan Leaf or he might be Phillip Rivers) or Tannehill ( who might be Michael Bishop or he might be Steve Young).

pretty big risk.

So maybe a trade down is the smart thing. Fill a BIG hole at NT or RT, pick up an extra second or third, and look at a guy like Kellen Moore in the second or something. He might be Drew Brees. He might not.

I don't think Jones is a better prospect, really, do you? I mean screw the measurables, I think once you get above the Palko line of arm strength it's about smarts and heart more than the big gun.

[Chiefnj2]

Even when Orton became QB I don't recall KC taking that many shots downfield. I think it's a combo - no pure speed WRs and OL's inability to block for that long.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Even when Orton became QB I don't recall KC taking that many shots downfield. I think it's a combo - no pure speed WRs and OL's inability to block for that long.

Or maybe it was the play-calling.

[Hammock Parties]

Is Lenny blind? Our line was actually pretty good yesterday, especially in pass protection. The Broncos had all of 1 sack. Far cry from what Denver did in the 1st game.

[Mr. Laz]

It wouldn't surprise me. I think Pioli is too gutless to go after a top QB like RGIII if he declares. So he'll take the easy way out, and maybe even trade down, and take an offensive lineman.
yea, because you know so much more about football than Lenny Dawson.

[BoneKrusher]

Is Lenny blind?
either that or he's drinking the Mark Castle kool-aid.

[Hammock Parties]

We need a new center, RT and possibly LG

LMAO

We need a RT and could get by with Lilja for another year.

No way do we need to replace 3 positions. Albert, Hudson and Asamoah are locks.

[jAZ]

Our o-line gave Orton plenty of time. Its kind of hard for an o-line to protect a QB who holds on to the ball too long.

This was Cassel's biggest problem in NE.

[Coogs]

1st round... In the NFL Draft the guard and center positions have traditionally been undervalued but that has begun to change in recent years. Just ask the Pouncey Twins! If ever there was an interior blocker worthy of being selected in the first round it is DeCastro, who has drawn favorable comparisons to Steve Hutchinson. Not only is DeCastro big, tough, physical and aggressive but he is also mobile enough to pull and be a factor in space. DeCastro isn’t the type of sexy pick that is going to excite a fan base, but he has all of the tools to be one of the leagues best.

2nd round... Osemele is putting together an excellent season. Iowa State has him at left tackle and he has played well there. Osemele is a very good athlete for his size with the ability to slide and mirror pass rushers. He has long arms, quick feet and carries his weight well. Matching up against Oklahoma's Frank Alexander, Osmele held him without a sack. He has the power to run defenders over in the ground game.


2012 O-line...

LT Albert
LG DeCastro
C Hudson
RG Asamoah
RT Osemele


QB Orton
Backup Stanzi

WR Bowe
WR Baldwin
WR Breaston

TE Moeaki

RB Charles

[Hammock Parties]

So we're going to take a guard at #11.

True fans will jizz.

[Mr. Laz]

LMAO

We need a RT and could get by with Lilja for another year.

No way do we need to replace 3 positions. Albert, Hudson and Asamoah are locks.
we have no idea what Hudson can do, or not do.

[dirk digler]

I love Lenny but he can go to hell

[Saul Good]

1st round... In the NFL Draft the guard and center positions have traditionally been undervalued but that has begun to change in recent years. Just ask the Pouncey Twins! If ever there was an interior blocker worthy of being selected in the first round it is DeCastro, who has drawn favorable comparisons to Steve Hutchinson. Not only is DeCastro big, tough, physical and aggressive but he is also mobile enough to pull and be a factor in space. DeCastro isn’t the type of sexy pick that is going to excite a fan base, but he has all of the tools to be one of the leagues best.

2nd round... Osemele is putting together an excellent season. Iowa State has him at left tackle and he has played well there. Osemele is a very good athlete for his size with the ability to slide and mirror pass rushers. He has long arms, quick feet and carries his weight well. Matching up against Oklahoma's Frank Alexander, Osmele held him without a sack. He has the power to run defenders over in the ground game.


2012 O-line...

LT Albert
LG DeCastro
C Hudson
RG Asamoah
RT Osemele


QB Orton
Backup Stanzi

WR Bowe
WR Baldwin
WR Breaston

TE Moeaki

RB Charles
So you want a Guard with a top 12 pick?

[Hammock Parties]

we have no idea what Hudson can do, or not do.

We know he held his own in game action this year.

He will be the starter.

[Saul Good]

we have no idea what Hudson can do, or not do.

Then let's draft his replacement.

[whoman69]

C - Hudson
LG - Mid to late draft or FA
RT - Probably fairly high in the draft.

Done.

It's not the disaster everybody thinks it is. It's largely replacing RT. Interior guys can always be found later in the draft if you need to.

Yep.

But no Cassel. Please no more Cassel.

If we're going high in the draft to replace RT then there is little chance we draft QB.

[Extra Point]

I love Lenny but he can go to hell

Take a nice long swim in Deepwater.

[suds79]

If we're going high in the draft to replace RT then there is little chance we draft QB.

Honestly I'd prefer we draft our RT in round two or lower. Save that first for a QB or for trading up.

I largely believe the only position on the O-line that really matters is LT. Sure use your 1st round picks there. RT is next in line for most important. The interior guys are just filler who can be found mid to late.

[DBOSHO]

According to the announcers, ortons been sacked once in the 3 games hes started. WITH richardson and 260lb weigmann. We replace them with hudson and 4th-5th rd tackle and we'll be fine.

[Coogs]

So you want a Guard with a top 12 pick?

No. But since we are not going to get Luck, RGIII, or Richardson, and this guy has a chance to be Steve Hutchinson, I would rather have him that some LT and move Albert somewhere else when Albert is fine at LT.

Just playing along with Lenny.

[Mr. Laz]

Then let's draft his replacement.didn't say that, moron.

I'm just saying that we can't judge Hudson as anything yet ... good or bad.

[suds79]

No. But since we are not going to get Luck, RGIII, or Richardson, and this guy has a chance to be Steve Hutchinson, I would rather have him that some LT and move Albert somewhere else when Albert is fine at LT.

Just playing along with Lenny.

You can get your Steve Hutchinson later on. Just look at the current pro bowl roster.

Carl Nicks, Marshal Yanda, Jahri Evans, etc. These are all mid round picks.

[BigChiefFan]

Same old shit, different year. This franchise is a laughingstock.
Yeah let's trot out Cassel again, I'm sure if he gets 7 seconds he can complete some passes.

FORTY FUCKING YEARS without a franchise QB and the fanbase clamors for O-line. This is maddening.

[KCUnited]

No disrespect to a Kansas City legend, but Lemmy is probably more in touch with today's game.

[htismaqe]

Lenny also said that none of WRs can get separation...he kind of caveated it with Bowe, but he didn't even seem overly impressed there either.

He flat out said that Drew Brees' guys get open and ours don't.

[DTLB58]

Said doesn't matter who the QB is if your offensive line can't blocka nd can't open holes in the running game. Given the reality of us drafting a QBotF this year I think we are going to see heavy investment into the O-line. I think Piloi is going to view QB as a secondary need since we have Cassel or Orton to throw in for the time being.

Look at Pioli's track record of drafting OL in the early rounds here and in NE, even when so called experts and fans alike were saying that's what he should do. Usually doesn't happen.

[suds79]

Lenny also said that none of WRs can get separation...he kind of caveated it with Bowe, but he didn't even seem overly impressed there either.

He flat out said that Drew Brees' guys get open and ours don't.

:facepalm:

Wow. And he's getting paid?

[Dave Lane]

Senility is creeping in.

[DTLB58]

Same old shit, different year. This franchise is a laughingstock.
Yeah let's trot out Cassel again, I'm sure if he gets 7 seconds he can complete some passes.

FORTY ****ING YEARS without a franchise QB and the fanbase clamors for O-line. This is maddening.

Bingo. Even Peter King didn't list KC as one of the "QB starved Franchises" today in his Monday Morning QB column when talking about Matt Flynn. Ridiculous.

[Saul Good]

didn't say that, moron.

I'm just saying that we can't judge Hudson as anything yet ... good or bad.

The question was whether or not he's our starter on o-line this year, and he is. The position simply is not a need in the draft.

[Titty Meat]

Keep Hudson at guard draft Brewster in the 2nd round.

[whoman69]

Lenny sounds like the Matt Cassel apologists. Let's point out some things that happened without Cassel in there. Sacks went way down. Palko knew how to move coverages. Orton didn't get sacked in his first two games. The line is not as big a problem as what he is saying. Richardson definitely needs to go and we do need some help on the interior. I saw Lilja playing much better. Get Hudson in at center and add some depth. O-line is not the biggest need on this team, its QB.

[Mr. Laz]

Lenny sounds like the Matt Cassel apologists.
yes, because anyone that points out any weakness on the Chiefs team is really just trying to make an excuse for Cassel.


people on this board have gone full tard

[suds79]

yes, because anyone that points out any weakness on the Chiefs team is really just trying to make an excuse for Cassel.

people on this board have gone full tard

Nobody is saying RT isn't the biggest gaping hole on the O-line. We all agree there.

But anybody who thinks that the biggest problem (or reason for holding us back from a SB) is anything but Matt Cassel is either blind or simply doesn't understand today's NFL.

[dirk digler]

Take a nice long swim in Deepwater.

I can't help it Lenny says stupid things. Oline is a problem but it isn't our biggest problem of course anyone with half a brain knows that

[BigMeatballDave]

JFC Anyone with a fucking brain can tell the line isn't that bad since Orton was only sacked twice in 3 games.

[Saul Good]

JFC Anyone with a ****ing brain can tell the line isn't that bad since Orton was only sacked twice in 3 games.

Yesterday's sack was on Orton, too.

[Chiefnj2]

Lenny sounds like the Matt Cassel apologists. Let's point out some things that happened without Cassel in there. Sacks went way down. Palko knew how to move coverages. Orton didn't get sacked in his first two games. The line is not as big a problem as what he is saying. Richardson definitely needs to go and we do need some help on the interior. I saw Lilja playing much better. Get Hudson in at center and add some depth. O-line is not the biggest need on this team, its QB.

Palko didn't know how to do shit.

[gblowfish]

If Pioli makes Romeo HC, and brings in Cheater McDaniels as OC, then they are married to Cassel for probably two more years. Pioli paid Cassel over $60 million. He's not going to pull the plug four years into a six year deal and say "whoops I made a bit of a mistake there." They will blame this year on injuries, and say Cassel is a "Pro Bowl QB" and this is "his team." Mark my words on that. They will probably trade down from #12 to pick up an additional second or third round pick, maybe not even in 2012 but in 2013, and draft a NT, or RT with their first pick. If they bring in another QB, he'll probably be an aging Free Agent that won't cost them much. This is team historical culture. All of KC's QBs come from somewhere else for 40 years. That doesn't make it right, that's just the way it is. Clark Hunt is all about appearances. If we can appear to be competitive next year, and not have to flush Cassel's contract, then he's happy. Always remember, with the Chiefs it's not about winning. It's about making money.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Lenny also said that none of WRs can get separation...he kind of caveated it with Bowe, but he didn't even seem overly impressed there either.

He flat out said that Drew Brees' guys get open and ours don't.

Drew Brees throws his WR's open.

Our QB's do not.

You see the one-handed grab by Graham yesterday? Or his TD catch?

He wasn't open by Cassel standards, yet Brees put the ball where Graham could make a play.

[ChiefsCountry]

I'm not a big RT in the first round guy, but Rieff, Martin and even DeCastro more than likely will be BPA when we pick at #12.

[Epic Fail 007]

We are going to draft a qb just maybe not in the 1st.Everyone calm down this real life not madden.

[gblowfish]

We are going to draft a qb just maybe not in the 1st.Everyone calm down this real life not madden.

BUT WE'RE ALL VERY ANGRY AND VERY WORRIED ABOUT ALL THIS!!!!!
(Note I typed in all caps to emulate raising my voice to show my passion....)

[BigMeatballDave]

yea, because you know so much more about football than Lenny Dawson.

Players, past or present, don't know as much as you think. Tony Gonzales thought Tyler Thigpen was a legit QB.

Dawson is also fucking old. 76.

Keep holding on to the hope that Cassel is actually a good QB.

Fucking stupid loser fans.

[Titty Meat]

Drew Brees throws his WR's open.

Our QB's do not.

You see the one-handed grab by Graham yesterday? Or his TD catch?

He wasn't open by Cassel standards, yet Brees put the ball where Graham could make a play.

Or the Bowe sideline catch yesterday.

[Epic Fail 007]

If Pioli makes Romeo HC, and brings in Cheater McDaniels as OC, then they are married to Cassel for probably two more years. Pioli paid Cassel over $60 million. He's not going to pull the plug four years into a six year deal and say "whoops I made a bit of a mistake there." They will blame this year on injuries, and say Cassel is a "Pro Bowl QB" and this is "his team." Mark my words on that. They will probably trade down from #12 to pick up an additional second or third round pick, maybe not even in 2012 but in 2013, and draft a NT, or RT with their first pick. If they bring in another QB, he'll probably be an aging Free Agent that won't cost them much. This is team historical culture. All of KC's QBs come from somewhere else for 40 years. That doesn't make it right, that's just the way it is. Clark Hunt is all about appearances. If we can appear to be competitive next year, and not have to flush Cassel's contract, then he's happy. Always remember, with the Chiefs it's not about winning. It's about making money.

Just go then if all your going to do is spout negativity

[suds79]

We are going to draft a qb just maybe not in the 1st.Everyone calm down this real life not madden.

What does that even mean?

People see how other teams have won SBs by drafting a top talent QB in the first. We have Matt Cassel. This team hasn't drafted a QB high in decades.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Or the Bowe sideline catch yesterday.

Didn't see it. Didn't watch the game.

[Epic Fail 007]

BUT WE'RE ALL VERY ANGRY AND VERY WORRIED ABOUT ALL THIS!!!!!
(Note I typed in all caps to emulate raising my voice to show my passion....)

Truthfully it dose not matter what anyone says.Should just relax and see what happens.The bitching and moaning is a waste of breath.Whatever happens happens.

[FloridaMan88]

JFC Anyone with a ****ing brain can tell the line isn't that bad since Orton was only sacked twice in 3 games.

Someone inform Dumbshit Dave that the offensive line also includes RUN BLOCKING as well.

Remember the Chiefs failing to pick up critical first downs on the ground in third and short situations against the Raiders?

Remember the Chiefs inability to punch it in on the ground in the red zone in the Packers and Raiders games?

That is also on the offensive line.

[BigMeatballDave]

Drew Brees throws his WR's open.

Our QB's do not.

You see the one-handed grab by Graham yesterday? Or his TD catch?

He wasn't open by Cassel standards, yet Brees put the ball where Graham could make a play.

Hey, now. You are only going to confuse the masses with your logic.

[Titty Meat]

Didn't see it. Didn't watch the game.

What? Why not?

[OnTheWarpath15]

What? Why not?

LMAO

Yeah, sounds like I missed a real barn burner.

[BigMeatballDave]

Someone inform Dumbshit Dave that the offensive line also includes RUN BLOCKING as well.

Remember the Chiefs failing to pick up critical first downs on the ground in third and short situations against the Raiders?

Remember the Chiefs inability to punch it in on the ground in the red zone in the Packers and Raiders games?

That is also on the offensive line.

I recall Dex running pretty good yesterday.

Didn't JC have a good season in 2010? Same line.

LOL @ You calling me a dumbass. There is an entire thread proving your dumbassery.

[FloridaMan88]

I recall Dex running pretty good yesterday.

Didn't JC have a good season in 2010? Same line.

LOL @ You calling me a dumbass. There is an entire thread proving your dumbassery.

JFC Dumbshit Dave never fails to disappoint with his amazing ability to be a DUMBSHIT of epic fashion.

How did the Chiefs offensive line and running game do at the end of the 2010 season against the Raiders and in the playoffs against the Ravens? They got manhandled.

McCluster had 2-3 good gains on draw plays yesterday, the rest of the game he and the Chiefs running game was stuffed.

Apparently you missed that with your head up your fat ass.

ROFLROFLROFL

[Rooster]

LMAO

Yeah, sounds like I missed a real barn burner.

Colquitt Bowl II

[splatbass]

Always remember, with the Chiefs it's not about winning. It's about making money.

This is an opinion, not fact.

[FloridaMan88]

This is an opinion, not fact.

Actually it is a fact.

The Chiefs were among the league leaders with money to spend under the salary cap.

Clark saving millions at the expense of winning.

[BigMeatballDave]

JFC Dumbshit Dave never fails to disappoint with his amazing ability to be a DUMBSHIT of epic fashion.

How did the Chiefs offensive line and running game do at the end of the 2010 season against the Raiders and in the playoffs against the Ravens? They got manhandled.

McCluster had 2-3 good gains on draw plays yesterday, the rest of the game he and the Chiefs running game was stuffed.

Apparently you missed that with your head up your fat ass.

ROFLROFLROFL

Herp derp

[CoMoChief]

Well first and foremost, I think it's safe to say that we need a QB that:

1. Doesn't lock onto his 1 primary WR 100% of the time
2. Takes into account where the first down markers are
3. Is able to read defenses and go through his progressions
4. Able to throw a deep ball with accuracy

But the Chiefs do desperately need Oline help, and bad. As much as Cassel sucks, our Oline only had a few good games this season, and no QB is going to do well when the defense in constantly in his face putting pressure on him. Weigmann needs to retire, BRich needs a bus ticket out of town, we need OT help and much depth is also needed.

Look what the DV era Olines were able to accomplish. That's a very high bar to set as a standard, as we may never see another Oline like that again. That was one of the best Olines in the history of the NFL according to some. That Oline made a mediocre Trent Green into a very fine and efficient QB. That Oline made a nobody in Priest Holmes into a multi-threat offensive nightmare for even the best defenses around the NFL at that time. When that offense had scrubs like Morton and Kennison at WR, it still managed to be top 5 or so in passing offense.

This team also needs a true NT. Kelly Gregg isn't the answer. I don't know of any FA's or top college NT prospects at this point off the top of my head, but I do know this.....this is year 4 (or will be) of the 34 defense and this team has yet to really address this position and it's the most important position on the defense. Gregg was just a band-aid if you can even call it that. And Powe is a 7th rd draft pick. Gordon showed some flashes, but this team really needs to address this issue.

Can't believe we gave money to Succop. The guy just can't make shit beyond 40+ yds.

Safety depth is sorely needed. Anything to get McGraw and Sabby Pisspoortackling off the field.

[Epic Fail 007]

If Pioli makes Romeo HC, and brings in Cheater McDaniels as OC, then they are married to Cassel for probably two more years. Pioli paid Cassel over $60 million. He's not going to pull the plug four years into a six year deal and say "whoops I made a bit of a mistake there." They will blame this year on injuries, and say Cassel is a "Pro Bowl QB" and this is "his team." Mark my words on that. They will probably trade down from #12 to pick up an additional second or third round pick, maybe not even in 2012 but in 2013, and draft a NT, or RT with their first pick. If they bring in another QB, he'll probably be an aging Free Agent that won't cost them much. This is team historical culture. All of KC's QBs come from somewhere else for 40 years. That doesn't make it right, that's just the way it is. Clark Hunt is all about appearances. If we can appear to be competitive next year, and not have to flush Cassel's contract, then he's happy. Always remember, with the Chiefs it's not about winning. It's about making money.
This is just a bitter old man whining

[FloridaMan88]

Herp derp

Dumbshit Dave also apparently missed the Chiefs repeated epic fails on third/fourth and short situations last year where they couldn't pick up 1-2 yards.

That is on the offensive line as well.

Dumbshit Dave is a babbling moron with the IQ of a Scott Pioli bowel movement.

[gblowfish]

This is an opinion, not fact.

The Chiefs have NEVER lost money since moving to KC. That is a fact.
KC has not been in a championship game in 42 years. That is ALSO a fact.

So, tell me again how we're driven to win???

[splatbass]

Actually it is a fact.

The Chiefs were among the league leaders with money to spend under the salary cap.

Clark saving millions at the expense of winning.

Still just opinion. Dan Snyder proved that throwing big money at free agents doesn't win SBs. Building from young talent doesn't cost as much, but it doesn't make Clark Hunt cheap, it just means he is building with young players that don't cost as much. At this point there is no way to know as a fact that the Hunts are just cheap, it is all supposition.

When you can PROVE that Hunt is cheap and doesn't care about winning then you can call it fact. Until then it is opinion. By the definition of the words.

[Extra Point]

I'm not a big RT in the first round guy, but Rieff, Martin and even DeCastro more than likely will be BPA when we pick at #12.

Me, neither, but the handwriting's on the wall, true fan or not. One more season in the crapper, with a FA RT, so one of these guys can get a whiff of how the position is played. (Didn't even make that up.)

Let's draft another DT in the first, shall we?

Let's reach for someone at QB, that we won't play, shall we?

Let's not.

Buckle up, boys. You'll still root for this team, bitch about how long Cassel holds onto the ball while missing his reads, all the while getting hammered.

Don't be surprised when we trade for or draft a stout RB in the 2nd, and watch a QB drafted in the fourth.

[splatbass]

The Chiefs have NEVER lost money since moving to KC. That is a fact.
KC has not been in a championship game in 42 years. That is ALSO a fact.

So, tell me again how we're driven to win???

Tell me the difference between "fact" and "opinion". Someone that writes as well as you should know the definition of the words. What you have is opinion, not fact.

[gblowfish]

Still just opinion. Dan Snyder proved that throwing big money at free agents doesn't win SBs. Building from young talent doesn't cost as much, but it doesn't make Clark Hunt cheap, it just means he is building with young players that don't cost as much. At this point there is no way to know as a fact that the Hunts are just cheap, it is all supposition.

When you can PROVE that Hunt is cheap and doesn't care about winning then you can call it fact. Until then it is opinion. By the definition of the words.

The Chiefs have been in the bottom fourth of league payroll, and $30 million under the salary cap every year that Clark has been in charge. We're not talking about the Redskins, we're talking about the Chiefs. Let's keep our eye on the right tribe of indians here, mmmmkay?

[BigMeatballDave]

Dumbshit Dave also apparently missed the Chiefs repeated epic fails on third/fourth and short situations last year where they couldn't pick up 1-2 yards.

That is on the offensive line as well.

Dumbshit Dave is a babbling moron with the IQ of a Scott Pioli bowel movement.

LMAO You are retarded. I'm not even sure why you are arguing.

This OL is not that bad, but it needs upgrades. I've said this all season.

[splatbass]

The Chiefs have been in the bottom fourth of league payroll, and $30 million under the salary cap every year that Clark has been in charge. We're not talking about the Redskins, we're talking about the Chiefs. Let's keep our eye on the right tribe of indians here, mmmmkay?

Let's see that proof instead of supposition, mmmmkay?

[FloridaMan88]

The Chiefs have been in the bottom fourth of league payroll, and $30 million under the salary cap every year that Clark has been in charge. We're not talking about the Redskins, we're talking about the Chiefs. Let's keep our eye on the right tribe of indians here, mmmmkay?

Also using just this season as an example...

Jacksonville, Tampa and the Chiefs were all among the league leaders in available salary cap room.

All three had failed seasons.

[FloridaMan88]

LMAO You are retarded. I'm not even sure why you are arguing.

This OL is not that bad, but it needs upgrades. I've said this all season.

You are such a dumbshit that you just made my point...

The Chiefs offensive line needs upgrades.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Dumbshit Dave ROFL

[gblowfish]

Let's see that proof instead of supposition, mmmmkay?

I guess 42 years isn't proof enough. That's two years longer than the Israelites followed Moses through the desert. If you've been following the CP for any amount of time, there has been dozens of examples shown where the Chiefs have gone cheap, and have been caught being petty cheap. From being millions under the cap, to wanting to charge first responders for game tickets to come in and hold the American Flag before kickoff.

Why do you think teams like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, NY Giants succeed? Because they're tight with a buck?

I suppose.

[ChiefsCountry]

Also using just this season as an example...

Jacksonville, Tampa and the Chiefs were all among the league leaders in available salary cap room.

All three had failed seasons.

Then explain the Rams and Colts, they had high payrolls.

[dirk digler]

Let's see that proof instead of supposition, mmmmkay?

The proof is in the salary cap numbers and the team suckage for the past 4 years

[gblowfish]

Then explain the Rams and Colts, they had high payrolls.

Payroll isn't the only reason, but is a major contributing factor. Injury to starting QB was a big factor on both these teams. I think it's been shown that if you spend money you're not guaranteed to win. But if you don't spend money you're guaranteed NOT to win.

[gblowfish]

Let's see that proof instead of supposition, mmmmkay?

If you think the Chiefs are doing every possible thing financially to win, then God Bless you. You're just the kind of fan the Hunt family adores.

[BigMeatballDave]

You are such a dumbshit that you just made my point...

The Chiefs offensive line needs upgrades.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Dumbshit Dave ROFL

Again. You are retarded and cannot comprehend.

I'VE SAID FOR MONTHS THE CHIEFS NEED TO UPGRADE.

[gblowfish]

Hey, one thing I will say. When Clark Hunt has a passion about something, he puts his money where his mouth is. The Columbus Crew is one of the best funded teams in the MLS.

[dirk digler]

If you think the Chiefs are doing every possible thing financially to win, then God Bless you. You're just the kind of fan the Hunt family adores.

Don't you have season tickets?

[gblowfish]

Don't you have season tickets?

Yep. I never claimed not to have mental illness.

[dirk digler]

Yep. I never claimed not to have mental illness.

LMAO That explains a lot

[tk13]

These money arguments are always BS. If your front office is worth a crap the amount of money you spend doesn't matter, within reason obviously. Teams like the Packers, Steelers, Saints all win not because they spend money, but make great personnel decisions (i.e. letting Holmes go and drafting Brown/Wallace). I don't think there's ever been a team that's "bought" a Super Bowl like you've seen in other sports, although even in the NBA and MLB teams have struggled to do that. The money is used to re-sign the guys you've developed and want to keep. And to this point the Chiefs (and even the Royals recently) have done that.

Look at the Saints... it probably wasn't a decade ago that Tom Benson was considered a cheap greedy old curmudgeon... now you haven't heard someone call him that in years. They made smart free agent signings with guys like Brees and Sproles, surrounded by draft picks like Colston, Graham, Meachem... Will Smith, Roman Harper, Patrick Robinson on defense. Packers, Steelers, Patriots... it's the same thing over and over.

[gblowfish]

The Chiefs could have had Sproles. They decided not to spend the money. Just sayin...

Also, I understand your logic. But even when we tie up our young guys, like Carr and Bowe, we're still going to be way under the cap. They've got a lot of room to move. This year will tell us a lot when we see the results of free agency and the draft. Hopefully we'll do better than Breaston, Gregg and McClain in 2012.

[tk13]

That's conjecture. How do you know they "decided to not spend the money." You assume every decision is a financial one and not just a stupid personnel decision. This team has certainly blown enough money on waste of space FA's over the past 20 years to make you think some of this is just Pioli's desire to build an organization from within, like the Steelers/Pats/Colts/etc.

[gblowfish]

That's conjecture. How do you know they "decided to not spend the money." You assume every decision is a financial one and not just a stupid personnel decision. This team has certainly blown enough money on waste of space FA's over the past 20 years to make you think some of this is just Pioli's desire to build an organization from within, like the Steelers/Pats/Colts/etc.

Spending money is a major component in personnel decisions. It goes hand in glove with talent evaluation. Is the talent worth the money....

Sproles is a local kid. I believe the Chiefs passed on him, because they spent a second round pick on McCluster. Sproles is a much better back. Wouldn't it have been nice to have him over the last month instead of Thomas Jones?

The spotlight is certainly on Pioli now. He's had enough time now to mould this team. If they have another draft like 2009, or whiff on FAs, then its just more of "same as it ever was." If Clark is good with that, then it's on him.

[dirk digler]

That's conjecture. How do you know they "decided to not spend the money." You assume every decision is a financial one and not just a stupid personnel decision. This team has certainly blown enough money on waste of space FA's over the past 20 years to make you think some of this is just Pioli's desire to build an organization from within, like the Steelers/Pats/Colts/etc.

So instead of being cheap they are incompetent.

[tk13]

I've always said that. Do we really think, even if they are 100% about business and don't care about one bit about football... that they are too stupid to realize that if they build a Super Bowl contender, they are going to make even more money than they're making now? Do we really think they're that stupid? Maybe they are, I find that hard to believe though.

[dirk digler]

I've always said that. Do we really think, even if they are 100% about business and don't care about one bit about football... that they are too stupid to realize that if they build a Super Bowl contender, they are going to make even more money than they're making now? Do we really think they're that stupid? Maybe they are, I find that hard to believe though.

I don't think they are stupid at all. They know they can fill the stadium by just being mediocre and not have to spend a lot of money on payroll which in turn = profit which in turn = make their $125 million dollars back that they spent on the stadium.

[aturnis]

LMAO

We need a RT and could get by with Lilja for another year.

No way do we need to replace 3 positions. Albert, Hudson and Asamoah are locks.

This. Don't need to replace 3 guys on the OL this year, if and we won't. 3 guys is too many new faces on the OL. Hudson and a RT.

Also, early on, Orton went deep more than we had gone all year. Baldwin just can't catch. He's fast enough, a 4.4 at his size is great. He's gotten behind the defense consistently. Either the QB didn't get it to a good spot, or he just dropped it. Breaston's been targeted too, just unable to hook up.

If Orton is the guy, he might benefit from the offseason.

Also Orton seemed to fall into the same trap most QB's who play with Bowe do, they look for him first. He did great at spreading the ball around his first game, then during the Raiders game it slowly shift to lots of Bowe. Then, when Bowe went down, so did our passing game. Baldwin and Breaston are good enough targets, just couldn't hit them.

[Frankie]

It wouldn't surprise me. I think Pioli is too gutless to go after a top QB like RGIII if he declares.get off the RG3 wet dream. It will NOT happen. And it should NOT happen. Just too far to move up in the draft and too much of a price to pay.

The Center was drafted in the 2nd round last year. The Chiefs need a new LG and RT and better depth.The Center drafted in the 2nd round last year might end up at LG.

Is Lenny blind?No, he just knows what an elite O-line can do, having played behind one for years.

We need a RT and could get by with Lilja for another year.Lilja is a reliable back up. That's the only capacity I want to see him in.

I love Lenny but he can go to hellBLASPHEMY!!!!

You can get your Steve Hutchinson later on. Just look at the current pro bowl roster.

Carl Nicks, Marshal Yanda, Jahri Evans, etc. These are all mid round picks.Let's not forget the FA market there either.

Lenny sounds like the Matt Cassel apologists. I didn't see in the thread starter where he campaigned for Cassel. He just said the O-line was inadequate.

[SAUTO]

Same shit george says about the royals.

Young, (hopefully) ascending, first contract guys equal low payroll
Posted via Mobile Device

[gblowfish]

The Royals and Chiefs have both been models of front office failure. They've suffered from a lot of the same philosophies. Both Pioli and Moore are coming to an age of accountability.

And I'm on record as saying I guarantee the Royals will win at least 70 games this year.

[SAUTO]

Yeah they have suffered by trying to build a young, sustainable, core through the draft.

We can argue the players picked but prior to each teams respective GM hires most would have agreed that was the right thing to do.

Doing that also makes several years of low payrolls.
Posted via Mobile Device

[bricks]

In pro sports, teams can be cheap with their payrolls and still be successful(i.e., the Tampa Bay Devil Rays had one of the lowest payrolls in major-league baseball and still made it to the World Series)

And of course, there are teams that can go on a shopping frenzy and still be successful(good talent doesn't come cheap. If you want the good players you got a dish out the dough. Which is what teams like the New York Yankees will do. And time after time they are successful because they manage to bring in great talent but spend a lot of money as well. However, that strategy appears to be most effective in baseball rather than other sports like football or hockey)

Regardless, the most important thing that matters is that teams spend their money wisely. And, they evaluate their players really well. Chiefs have failed in both of those situations. People can talk about how cheap they are or how much talent they have but the reality is they've failed in terms of evaluation and how they spend their money.

[Frankie]

Palko didn't know how to do shit.Actually I think Palko was OK cerebrally. I think his brain wrote checks that his body could not cash. I won't be surprised that someday soon we will be talking about this successful young QB coach named Tyler Palko.

Just an observation.

If Pioli makes Romeo HC, and brings in Cheater McDaniels as OC, then they are married to Cassel for probably two more years. Pioli paid Cassel over $60 million. He's not going to pull the plug four years into a six year deal and say "whoops I made a bit of a mistake there." They will blame this year on injuries, and say Cassel is a "Pro Bowl QB" and this is "his team." I don't claim to understand NFL contracts. But it seems to me that Cassel's contract had $28 mil in guaranteed money hand we have already paid him that.

I'm not a big RT in the first round guy, but Rieff, Martin and even DeCastro more than likely will be BPA when we pick at #12.Osemele in the 2nd is just what the doctor ordered.

We are going to draft a qb just maybe not in the 1st.Everyone calm down this real life not madden.My vote is for moving down in the first round and get Tannehill. That will give us additional draft choices as well. Win win.

Players, past or present, don't know as much as you think. Tony Gonzales thought Tyler Thigpen was a legit QB.

Dawson is also ****ing old. 76.

Keep holding on to the hope that Cassel is actually a good QB.

****ing stupid loser fans.One more time: Nobody including Dawson is campaigning for Cassel. This thread is about the inadequacy of the O-line.

Or the Bowe sideline catch yesterday.THAT WAS FUCKING LOVELY.

Ironically, at commercial break we had switched channels to check on the Lions/Packers game. Calvin Johnson made an incredible catch in the middle of the field. As we were switching back I was explaining to Fariba that that catch represented why some consider Johnson the best receiver in the league. Litterally within seconds of my comment Bowe made that SAME EXACT CATCH and on the sideline to boot!!!

I hope Clay can GIF those two catches side by side. They happened within minutes of each other. You'll see what I mean. .... CLAY!!!!

... the offensive line also includes RUN BLOCKING as well.

Remember the Chiefs failing to pick up critical first downs on the ground in third and short situations against the Raiders?

Remember the Chiefs inability to punch it in on the ground in the red zone in the Packers and Raiders games?

That is also on the offensive line.I agree with your post. But the short yardage failure is more on our undersized, old center.

[SAUTO]

They have failed on the qb they speny their money on...


The rest of this team save a couple of spots (richardson I'm pointing at you) is deep playoff run worthy.

And those spots should be easily filled in fa.


Trade this whole fucking draft for RGIII or luck (now that it seems an outside chance irsay may move the number one)
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cornstock]

I'm in favor of taking a QB in the first round, but if trading up to take Luck or RGIII ends up being impossible, I really don't want to reach for a guy like Tannehill or Landry Jones. That opens up taking an OL guy as a valid choice. I'm an Iowa fan but I really don't like taking Reiff here. For some reason I can't get on board with him, especially after his sub-par bowl game performance.

Depending on on BPA, I'm good with taking DeCastro or Martin here. And if we take another lineman in the 2nd we could really shore up the line for a while. If this were to happen I would really really want to go after a guy like Flynn in free agency because the QB position needs to be addressed. If we have to put up with another year of Mark Castle (which I fully expect) I will explode. The worst case scenario I will tolerate is having Castle, or preferably Orton fill in while a rookie learns the ropes.

[007]

but what does he have to say about our QB situation

[Frankie]

I think it's been shown that if you spend money you're not guaranteed to win. But if you don't spend money you're guaranteed NOT to win.This TOTALLY.

I can't understand why some posters here think only in black or white. More money needs to be spent by this team, but it does not mean George is saying let's over spend like Snyder does.

The spotlight is certainly on Pioli now. He's had enough time now to mould this team. If they have another draft like 2009, or whiff on FAs, then its just more of "same as it ever was." If Clark is good with that, then it's on him.FWIW, Lombardi and some others on the NFL Network were predicting that the Chiefs will go heavily after O-linemen this year. They sounded like we are gonna be pretty competitive in the FA market.

Same shit george says about the royals.JA, dude, are you sure you want the Royals as your argument for success?

[SAUTO]

This TOTALLY.

I can't understand why some posters here think only in black or white. More money needs to be spent by this team, but it does not mean George is saying let's over spend like Snyder does.

FWIW, Lombardi and some others on the NFL Network were predicting that the Chiefs will go heavily after O-linemen this year. They sounded like we are gonna be pretty competitive in the FA market.

JA, dude, are you sure you want the Royals as your argument for success?
We are talking about payroll and I gave a reason its low. Same reason its low for the royals right now.

Young drafted first contract players. and the royals look to be on track with that. Payroll should SHOULD increase as these guys get to that second contract. Just like the chiefs as we lock up bowe and carr
Posted via Mobile Device

[aturnis]

Players, past or present, don't know as much as you think. Tony Gonzales thought Tyler Thigpen was a legit QB.

Dawson is also ****ing old. 76.


I agree that Dawson says a LOT of stupid shit. really, he does.

Tony Gonzalez though, didn't ACTUALLY believe what he said. He believe that of what we had, Thigpen gave us the best chance to win. Tony DID NOT want to go through the growing pains of a rookie QB, no matter how good he was SUPPOSED to be. Tony wanted to win, and in his mind, one of the best ways to achieve that was for the QB to throw HIM the ball. Which Thigpen did quite a bit. If you would have asked Tony if he wanted any number of other solid, established QB's, he would have taken them in a heartbeat. Don't use Tony as an example. He was the kind of lip service.

[aturnis]

What does that even mean?

People see how other teams have won SBs by drafting a top talent QB in the first. We have Matt Cassel. This team hasn't drafted a QB high in decades.

Does not mean that Tannehill is a first round QB just b/c you drafted him there. Get a clue.

The problem with Tannehill is that he's an athletic college QB. He benefits greatly from teams worrying about him running, so the pass coverage is a lot more laxed, b/c in the back of their mind, they are just waiting for him to take off if he doesn't see an open man.

The only athletic college QB to transition to the NFL recently is Cam Newton. That is b/c he is the only guy who is athletic enough AND big enough to make an NFL defense respect his athleticism that much while still having the QB ability to hit an open man and make them respect his passing game.

Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Alex Smith or even Mike Vick, and Donovan McNabb depending on how you feel about them.

[aturnis]

Someone inform Dumbshit Dave that the offensive line also includes RUN BLOCKING as well.

Remember the Chiefs failing to pick up critical first downs on the ground in third and short situations against the Raiders?

Remember the Chiefs inability to punch it in on the ground in the red zone in the Packers and Raiders games?

That is also on the offensive line.

Not to mention that half of the improvement of the Oline has been solely b/c they have been spending more time in the classroom since Crennel took over. One of the things I will fault Haley for. This line DID NOT KNOW who they were supposed to block. Part of that is b/c of lack of classroom time, and part on the QB, not to mention the OL coach.

[mikey23545]

Since when are sacks the one and only stat used to measure the quality of the offensive line?

Doesn't anyone else around here ever get tired of getting that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when the Chiefs have to convert a 3rd or 4th and short to win a game, knowing there's no way it is going to happen?

[aturnis]

Actually it is a fact.

The Chiefs were among the league leaders with money to spend under the salary cap.

Clark saving millions at the expense of winning.

If that's how you choose to view it.

You could also view it as Pioli building a roster the right way(the way this board has always wanted) and making sure that we have money to pay our home grown talent. We haven't been talented enough to believe we are one or two players away, so making big FA splashes would be foolish and lead to cap issues in the near future.

I will fault them though, on not using that money to improve the cheap, back end of the roster. Should have picked up someone other than Piscatelli. There was depth to be had, but we weren't willing to come up on our price a few hundred thousand to get it. Case in point, we let Shawn Smith walk for less that a few hundred thousand difference. Not that that wound up being a huge issue down the stretch.

[aturnis]

Since when are sacks the one and only stat used to measure the quality of the offensive line?

Doesn't anyone else around here ever get tired of getting that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when the Chiefs have to convert a 3rd or 4th and short to win a game, knowing there's no way it is going to happen?

Exactly. Blame also need to fall on Jones/Battle though. A short yardage back is a BIG need for this team.

[BigMeatballDave]

Palko didn't know how to do shit.

Physically, I agree.

Mentally, he is far and away better than Cassel.

[whoman69]

Palko didn't know how to do shit.

I think Palko knew quite a bit. I didn't see Cassel moving coverages when he was under center. Palko just didn't have any talent.

[BigMeatballDave]

I think Palko knew quite a bit. I didn't see Cassel moving coverages when he was under center. Palko just didn't have any talent.

Yep. I don't EVER recall Cassel doing all the pre-snap stuff that Palko and Orton were doing.

[mikey23545]

Exactly. Blame also need to fall on Jones/Battle though. A short yardage back is a BIG need for this team.

Yeppir...

Automatic Marcus was a thing of beauty to watch back in the 90's...

[gold_and_red]

Yep. I don't EVER recall Cassel doing all the pre-snap stuff that Palko and Orton were doing.

Why should he have to?
1. Throw to primary target if wide open.
2. If not wide open but somewhat open, throw 5 feet above his head.
3. If primary target covered, look for the 2 yard dumpoff.
4. If 3rd and more than 5, do not even look at the primary target. Enforce the 2 yard dumpoff rule.
5. Otherwise take the sack.

[aturnis]

Also using just this season as an example...

Jacksonville, Tampa and the Chiefs were all among the league leaders in available salary cap room.

All three had failed seasons.

And they are all amongst the youngest teams in the NFL. Rebuilding, through the draft. Duh.

Like I said, I agree that money could have been spent on the back end of the roster, but big splashes will have us back to living in mediocrity ala Carl Peterson. Why live paycheck to paycheck? That is essentially what it is.

[aturnis]

Physically, I agree.

Mentally, he is far and away better than Cassel.

Disagree. Palko was touted as a guy who was "smart", but it didn't show on the field. He looked terrible b/c he didn't know what he was doing. He was out of his league.

[whoman69]

Still just opinion. Dan Snyder proved that throwing big money at free agents doesn't win SBs. Building from young talent doesn't cost as much, but it doesn't make Clark Hunt cheap, it just means he is building with young players that don't cost as much. At this point there is no way to know as a fact that the Hunts are just cheap, it is all supposition.

When you can PROVE that Hunt is cheap and doesn't care about winning then you can call it fact. Until then it is opinion. By the definition of the words.

No Super Bowl since '69

No playoff wins since '93

No division championships from 1971-1993

Only one conference championship appearance since '69

Keeping a GM in the job 19 years that never won a championship.

KC consistently well under the cap.

This was a team that in its first ten years of existence won 3 championships. The Hunts have moved on to support tennis, soccer and took their eye of the football organization.

[aturnis]

Yep. I don't EVER recall Cassel doing all the pre-snap stuff that Palko and Orton were doing.

I think some of that, recently at least, has to do with the classroom time. Palko was still sacked 11 times in 6 games. He may have been flailing his arms around and calling things out, but either he was wrong, or the OL didn't know what to do with the information.

[BigMeatballDave]

Disagree. Palko was touted as a guy who was "smart", but it didn't show on the field. He looked terrible b/c he didn't know what he was doing. He was out of his league.

His poor play on the field was due to him having zero physical ability to play the position.

[aturnis]

His poor play on the field was due to him having zero physical ability to play the position.

Yep, that is why his line calls still resulted in him running for his life, throwing INT's under pressure, completing very few passes under that same pressure and still taking 11 sacks in six games.

You nailed it right on the head. So, 11 sacks in six games, plus the throw aways, plus the incompletions while under pressure, plus the INT's b/c of pressure. How does that sound like the Oline improved when he took the field?

The Oline DID NOT improve until Orton took the field. Now, that coincided with Romeo taking over as HC and changing the daily practice schedule to allow for more time in the classroom, studying the system they play in, their play within said system and also their weekly opponents defense and their tendencies.

So either A. Orton is credited with the Oline improvement B. Crennel is credited through ways of classroom preparation or C. a combination of the two.

You pick dumbass.

[aturnis]

The proof is in the salary cap numbers and the team suckage for the past 4 years

The teams suckage has nothing to do with payroll. It has everything to do with rebuilding and waiting for young players to mature combined with TERRIBLE QB play.

I think we've scene this team live up to preseason expectations(7-9 - 9-7) without top five players at the RB and S positions and without a young stud TE option. Not to mention losing said terrible QB mid season, only to move to a more terrible QB.

This is a good team, save a few positions that strongly affect the rest of the team. Depth also needs improving. QB needs to be answered. How I don't know.

[Messier]

No Super Bowl since '69

No playoff wins since '93

No division championships from 1971-1993

Only one conference championship appearance since '69

Keeping a GM in the job 19 years that never won a championship.

KC consistently well under the cap.

This was a team that in its first ten years of existence won 3 championships. The Hunts have moved on to support tennis, soccer and took their eye of the football organization.

If you're trying to draw a correlation between the playoff win drought and the idea that the Hunts are and were cheap I think you're barking up the wrong tree. So far can't speak for Clark, but Lamar was always near, at, or even over the cap. In fact is was a bunch of expensive, underachieving FA's in the late 90's that set the Chiefs back for a while.

[petegz28]

Yep. I don't EVER recall Cassel doing all the pre-snap stuff that Palko and Orton were doing.

In Casse's defense the coaches were giving him like 5 secs to read the defenses because they were taking so long getting the plays in and they fixed that when Palko came in.

[Caseyguyrr]

You already have a pretty good o-line. You'll need a new center.

barry. richardson. nuff said

[aturnis]

If you think the Chiefs are doing every possible thing financially to win, then God Bless you. You're just the kind of fan the Hunt family adores.

You are a butthurt fan and nothing more.

During the Carl Peterson reign. This board was full of smart football fans clamoring for a new GM who would build a team the right way, through the draft. That is what Pioli came to do, and he's not going to change his goal b/c your butt is sore.

If you want to BITCH about not spending money, bitch about not spending it on 2nd and 3rd tier players for depth. We would have won a couple more games and been blown out in a couple less if we had adequate depth at the safety position. Not to mention RB and QB.(Stanzi aside, as he wasn't going to see the field regardless)

BITCH about tying the team to a terrible QB if you want. I would.

Don't though, bitch about not bringing in high priced vets to play NT and OL. Last I checked, this defense has played VERY well with the NT's it has. You can point to blowouts all you want, but more blame for those kinds of losses lies on the ineptitude of the offense, not the defense.

What is the difference between the Chiefs and other tops teams(save GB and NE)?

Most have a pretty good defense(check), pretty good WR's(check) and a top tier QB(oops).

As for the OL, teams like PIT HAVE done just fine without one. We don't have the QB to do that though. So, we will need to make some upgrades on the OL to compensate for our QB's ineptitude.

Thing about that though, is that Pioli believes in home grown OL's. I don't blame him, just wish it were a quicker process. Hope we pick up two new starting quality OL in this draft/FA period. They're out there. FA if we can get a guy for decent money and who is a good player, which is a possibility with our main needs being G and RT. Otherwise, there are starting quality OT's availabe in the first 2 rounds as well as G's. I wouldn't put this passed Pioli, as it seems he likes to pick up the best OL who drops to rounds 2 and 3(Asamoah, Hudson) as long as he believes they can be the guy.

Don't worry. Be patient.

Hamas said it. This team is a QB away, the other pieces we need are easy to find. I don't want to roll into next season status quo, but I don't see the need to break the bank for overrated players like Aubrayo Franklin(notice how SF got better when he left?). Gordon worked well, and we have yet to see what Powe can do with a year of sitting and learning under his belt. He looked good when he saw the field. Also, there are lots of options in the draft.

Chill weasel.

[aturnis]

In Casse's defense the coaches were giving him like 5 secs to read the defenses because they were taking so long getting the plays in and they fixed that when Palko came in.

True. Another knock I will admit to on Haley.

[Frankie]

Actually I think Palko was OK cerebrally. I think his brain wrote checks that his body could not cash. I won't be surprised that someday soon we will be talking about this successful young QB coach named Tyler Palko.

I think Palko knew quite a bit. I didn't see Cassel moving coverages when he was under center. Palko just didn't have any talent.

Great minds....

[crossbow]

Draft the best player available in each round and hire a quality line coach. It shouldn't be too difficult to replace Richardson as bad as he is. Also, another reason the Chief's running attack was so good under Vermeil was the blocking tight end sets and fullback that he had.

[seaofred]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?


I'm not trying to bash him, but he seems kind of like John Madden (States the obvious and nothing earth shattering) to me. O.k. flame away.

[Three7s]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?


I'm not trying to bash him, but he seems kind of like John Madden (States the obvious and nothing earth shattering) to me. O.k. flame away.
He's in the HoF for a reason......

[FAX]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?


I'm not trying to bash him, but he seems kind of like John Madden (States the obvious and nothing earth shattering) to me. O.k. flame away.

They don't call him "Lenny The Lukewarm", dude.

FAX

[aturnis]

Again. You are retarded and cannot comprehend.

I'VE SAID FOR MONTHS THE CHIEFS NEED TO UPGRADE.

No, you are retarded for saying that Barry Richardson is "not that bad". He is. Always has been. I said he would suck after seeing him get abused by backups and insurance salesman in his first two training camps. I ate crow last year, but apprehensively. Looks like his true colors shined through once again.

Lilja isn't good either. Not for this team anyway. He's not a good enough run blocker and really not that great of a pass blocker either, but he will do for another year if need be. If and only if Hudson starts at center, and we get a new, successful RT.

Weigmann has had a great career, and is getting by on "wisdom" and know how. He's too old and weak and small(as the season wears on especially) to anchor against big DT's in the passing game, and too slow, old and small to get any real push in the run game. He will not be back next year. Thank god. Thanks for your time though Casey. You had a great run in your career and two stops in KC, but there is a reason we let you walk, and Denver did the same. Enjoy your retirement, you've earned it.

[aturnis]

He's in the HoF for a reason......

He wasn't anywhere near the elite QB's of today though, and would probably not succeed in todays NFL. I wonder if that's why he is calling for OL, b/c he sees himself in the Qb's we have, and thinks that they are good enough, b/c he was.

[gblowfish]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?


I'm not trying to bash him, but he seems kind of like John Madden (States the obvious and nothing earth shattering) to me. O.k. flame away.

Jesus.

[aturnis]

Hey, one thing I will say. When Clark Hunt has a passion about something, he puts his money where his mouth is. The Columbus Crew is one of the best funded teams in the MLS.

B/c soccer is different than football. It doesn't take nearly as many superstars in soccer. So paying for a few top tier guys and a bunch of above average/good players can lead to success.

Football, the way the different facets of the team and different players affect one another, not to mention the salary cap, makes this a whole different strategic ballgame.

[ChiTown]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?


I'm not trying to bash him, but he seems kind of like John Madden (States the obvious and nothing earth shattering) to me. O.k. flame away.

One of my few criteria for being a fan of any team is that you should probably know a little history, especially of those players who are in the FUCKING HOF!:shake:

[RealSNR]

He wasn't anywhere near the elite QB's of today Who is, though, from that era and before?

[seaofred]

One of my few criteria for being a fan of any team is that you should probably know a little history, especially of those players who are in the ****ING HOF!:shake:


I know he's in the HOF, but I also know it took him 12 years to get in. He was also cut by two teams before he was picked up by the Texans.

[Frankie]

Weigmann has had a great career, and is getting by on "wisdom" and know how. He's too old and weak and small(as the season wears on especially) to anchor against big DT's in the passing game, and too slow, old and small to get any real push in the run game. He will not be back next year. Thank god. Thanks for your time though Casey. You had a great run in your career and two stops in KC, but there is a reason we let you walk, and Denver did the same. Enjoy your retirement, you've earned it.OK I'm sold. I'm starting a Weigmwnn for O-line coach bandwagon. Aaaall aboard!

[ChiTown]

I know he's in the HOF, but I also know it took him 12 years to get in. He was also cut by two teams before he was picked up by the Texans.

LMAO.

I'll assume you are either being facetious or you are just whacked the fuck out on meth.

[Straight, No Chaser]

Ok, honest question here. I have never seen Len Dawson play, never really even seen any highlights. So my question is, was he really any good? Why should I care what he has to say, beside the fact he is the only Chiefs QB to win a Super Bowl?
..


This is one of the few times I've been speechless.

[BigMeatballDave]

No, you are retarded for saying that Barry Richardson is "not that bad". He is. Always has been. I said he would suck after seeing him get abused by backups and insurance salesman in his first two training camps. I ate crow last year, but apprehensively. Looks like his true colors shined through once again.

Lilja isn't good either. Not for this team anyway. He's not a good enough run blocker and really not that great of a pass blocker either, but he will do for another year if need be. If and only if Hudson starts at center, and we get a new, successful RT.

Weigmann has had a great career, and is getting by on "wisdom" and know how. He's too old and weak and small(as the season wears on especially) to anchor against big DT's in the passing game, and too slow, old and small to get any real push in the run game. He will not be back next year. Thank god. Thanks for your time though Casey. You had a great run in your career and two stops in KC, but there is a reason we let you walk, and Denver did the same. Enjoy your retirement, you've earned it.

LOL I never said Richardson was not that bad. I said THE LINE is not that bad. It's good enough to win with. It's as good or better than GBs line. I said Richardson needed replaced last season.

[GloryDayz]

This is an opinion, not fact.

Are you F'n kidding us??? Really???!!! What the F*CK makes you think this team has EVER cared about winning in the last three decades??? These are the Hunts man! Going back to their family's days trying to corner the siver market, they've only EVER cared about ONE THING MONEY!!!!

JFC, OPEN YOUR EYES SIR!!! They could ONLY get away with this kind of shit in a city like KC!! They try this shit in L.A. and the beach alone would keep the stands almost empty.

Wow.... Just WOW!! But I'll be glad to buy you a beer sir...

[aturnis]

The Chiefs could have had Sproles. They decided not to spend the money. Just sayin...

Also, I understand your logic. But even when we tie up our young guys, like Carr and Bowe, we're still going to be way under the cap. They've got a lot of room to move. This year will tell us a lot when we see the results of free agency and the draft. Hopefully we'll do better than Breaston, Gregg and McClain in 2012.

Which of those is a major disappointment? Unless you put unrealistically lofty expectations on McClain and Gregg. Breaston has been solid, considering the ineptitude of the offense as a whole. It's not on the WR's.

McClain, there is a reason he was let go, he's not all that good of a blocking FB, but he does try. Which is good, and he can run pretty well with the ball as well as catch passes. Might be nice to have a better blocker though. 3rd/4th and short have been a problem for this team since Richardson left town. Moreso now though, as we don't have a true short yardage back.

Gregg was also a known quantity. An aging NT, not overly athletic and not much of a pass rusher. He did a noble enough job against the run though. Whether than was with tackles or by keeping the linebackers clean.

Don't be so dramatic. There will another FA period of mostly role players, unless Pioli thinks Flynn or Manning(if available) is worth it. Otherwise, Cassel or Orton and maybe some stopgap roll players. Possibly an OL, RB or NT who's worth it. If they're superstars though, either they won't get out of town, or we won't bid high enough. Which is fine, teams that overpay, pay with more than just money. They pay with mediocrity.

[aturnis]

That's conjecture. How do you know they "decided to not spend the money." You assume every decision is a financial one and not just a stupid personnel decision. This team has certainly blown enough money on waste of space FA's over the past 20 years to make you think some of this is just Pioli's desire to build an organization from within, like the Steelers/Pats/Colts/etc.

George was OK with just getting to the playoffs. All the guys bitching about money were. At least it allows them to hold their head high in public and sport their KC t-shirts without shame.

[BigMeatballDave]

Yep, that is why his line calls still resulted in him running for his life, throwing INT's under pressure, completing very few passes under that same pressure and still taking 11 sacks in six games.

You nailed it right on the head. So, 11 sacks in six games, plus the throw aways, plus the incompletions while under pressure, plus the INT's b/c of pressure. How does that sound like the Oline improved when he took the field?

The Oline DID NOT improve until Orton took the field. Now, that coincided with Romeo taking over as HC and changing the daily practice schedule to allow for more time in the classroom, studying the system they play in, their play within said system and also their weekly opponents defense and their tendencies.

So either A. Orton is credited with the Oline improvement B. Crennel is credited through ways of classroom preparation or C. a combination of the two.

You pick dumbass.LMAO who pissed in your Post Toasties?

I don't give a fuck about Palko and I'm not arguing this with you. Tyler is a horrible QB, but I believe he understood the O better than Cassel. Palko getting sacked was him holding the ball too long.

[crossbow]

Who is, though, from that era and before?

Good point. Nobody passed as much as they do now in the NFL. The rules allowed for a balanced attack, there were no domes so the run was clearly a must have in cold weather, and a complex defense was sending a safety to blitz.

[aturnis]

Spending money is a major component in personnel decisions. It goes hand in glove with talent evaluation. Is the talent worth the money....

Sproles is a local kid. I believe the Chiefs passed on him, because they spent a second round pick on McCluster. Sproles is a much better back. Wouldn't it have been nice to have him over the last month instead of Thomas Jones?

The spotlight is certainly on Pioli now. He's had enough time now to mould this team. If they have another draft like 2009, or whiff on FAs, then its just more of "same as it ever was." If Clark is good with that, then it's on him.

Darren Sproles is change of pace back. Not a featured RB. You'd have to justify paying him that kind of jack, when he would be HALF as productive as Charles, while also preventing us from having an actual load carrying back to help Charles be more effective.

Sproles is a nice toy. Period. Larry Johnson had as many carries in one season as Sproles has had in his entire career.

Get real.

[tk13]

Good point. Nobody passed as much as they do now in the NFL. The rules allowed for a balanced attack, there were no domes so the run was clearly a must have in cold weather, and a complex defense was sending a safety to blitz.

Plus you were legally allowed to strike WR's with a chainsaw beyond the line of scrimmage, and a "defenseless player" was someone who was about to have their head knocked off.

[BigMeatballDave]

The Chiefs could have had Sproles. They decided not to spend the money. Just sayin...

Also, I understand your logic. But even when we tie up our young guys, like Carr and Bowe, we're still going to be way under the cap. They've got a lot of room to move. This year will tell us a lot when we see the results of free agency and the draft. Hopefully we'll do better than Breaston, Gregg and McClain in 2012.

Huh? What's wrong with Breaston? He was a very good signing.

[Frankie]

If memory serves me well, we have a couple of "intriguing" young O-linemen either on the IR or practice squad. If so, who are they and how will they fare next year, IYO?

[aturnis]

LOL I never said Richardson was not that bad. I said THE LINE is not that bad. It's good enough to win with. It's as good or better than GBs line. I said Richardson needed replaced last season.

I don't care what you said last season you fucktard. I don't keep a ledger of your increasingly ridiculous posts.

You said that the line "is not that bad" without giving any kind of context to the statement correct? Not the first time you've done it in this thread. Seems like you're just fishing for arguments now.

If you had said, "this line is not that bad. If we had a top 5 QB, we could win with this line." or even "as a whole, this line is not that bad, but there are some guys on it who are just terrible". It would be a whole different discussion.

But you said. "This line isn't that bad". Period. That is not true and anyone who knows anything will tell you the same thing. Two spots on the OL need immediate upgrades, C and RT. Richardson IS flat out terrible, you can't argue that. Luckily, Hudson is the heir apparent at C and Lilja is serviceable enough for now, even with a bad QB.

[aturnis]

Yeah they have suffered by trying to build a young, sustainable, core through the draft.

We can argue the players picked but prior to each teams respective GM hires most would have agreed that was the right thing to do.

Doing that also makes several years of low payrolls.
Posted via Mobile Device

This.

[aturnis]

I'm in favor of taking a QB in the first round, but if trading up to take Luck or RGIII ends up being impossible, I really don't want to reach for a guy like Tannehill or Landry Jones. That opens up taking an OL guy as a valid choice. I'm an Iowa fan but I really don't like taking Reiff here. For some reason I can't get on board with him, especially after his sub-par bowl game performance.

Depending on on BPA, I'm good with taking DeCastro or Martin here. And if we take another lineman in the 2nd we could really shore up the line for a while. If this were to happen I would really really want to go after a guy like Flynn in free agency because the QB position needs to be addressed. If we have to put up with another year of Mark Castle (which I fully expect) I will explode. The worst case scenario I will tolerate is having Castle, or preferably Orton fill in while a rookie learns the ropes.

You are not alone there Cornstock. Good post.

[aturnis]

We are talking about payroll and I gave a reason its low. Same reason its low for the royals right now.

Young drafted first contract players. and the royals look to be on track with that. Payroll should SHOULD increase as these guys get to that second contract. Just like the chiefs as we lock up bowe and carr
Posted via Mobile Device

If both Bowe and Carr are resigned, and both command at least 8 million a year, what does that leave us with? Not 30 million.

[aturnis]

If memory serves me well, we have a couple of "intriguing" young O-linemen either on the IR or practice squad. If so, who are they and how will they fare next year, IYO?

No, I don't believe we do. All of the undrafted FA this year were shit. Maybe you're refering to Harris though. Also, Mims, who I don't think will be spectacular, but I honestly haven't seen much of him.

[aturnis]

LMAO who pissed in your Post Toasties?

I don't give a **** about Palko and I'm not arguing this with you. Tyler is a horrible QB, but I believe he understood the O better than Cassel. Palko getting sacked was him holding the ball too long.

BUT HE WAS SOOOOO SMART!

Smart QB's don't hold on to the ball too long. Not only do they know it's bad and leads to sacks, interceptions and the like, but they shouldn't have to either. If he was really smart, his pre snap reads would give him a good idea of where he could hope to go with the ball. Also, he'd have no problem going through progression and making decent or at least justifiable quick decisions. Nope, that didn't happen.

Either A. Palko wasn't as smart as he was hyped to be B. Oline sucks or C. the Oline didn't have enough classroom time to understand his pre snap adjustments and coverage changes or C. He was an idiot and the OL didn't have proper classroom time to understand what they need to know.

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't care what you said last season you fucktard. I don't keep a ledger of your increasingly ridiculous posts.

You said that the line "is not that bad" without giving any kind of context to the statement correct? Not the first time you've done it in this thread. Seems like you're just fishing for arguments now.

If you had said, "this line is not that bad. If we had a top 5 QB, we could win with this line." or even "as a whole, this line is not that bad, but there are some guys on it who are just terrible". It would be a whole different discussion.

But you said. "This line isn't that bad". Period. That is not true and anyone who knows anything will tell you the same thing. Two spots on the OL need immediate upgrades, C and RT. Richardson IS flat out terrible, you can't argue that. Luckily, Hudson is the heir apparent at C and Lilja is serviceable enough for now, even with a bad QB.

LMAO there are several others here who share my opinion about the line.

It's good enough to win with but it needs to be upgraded.

Keep calling me a dumbass or fucktard or whatever. It's funny.

[BigMeatballDave]

BUT HE WAS SOOOOO SMART!

Smart QB's don't hold on to the ball too long. Not only do they know it's bad and leads to sacks, interceptions and the like, but they shouldn't have to either. If he was really smart, his pre snap reads would give him a good idea of where he could hope to go with the ball. Also, he'd have no problem going through progression and making decent or at least justifiable quick decisions. Nope, that didn't happen.

Either A. Palko wasn't as smart as he was hyped to be B. Oline sucks or C. the Oline didn't have enough classroom time to understand his pre snap adjustments and coverage changes or C. He was an idiot and the OL didn't have proper classroom time to understand what they need to know.

LMAO seriously?

Rodgers had problems holding the ball too long his first 2 seasons. Intelligence has little to do with that. Unless you think Rodgers is dumb.

[aturnis]

You guys can cry all you want. Fact is though, that if it weren't for injuries, lack of classroom time and the game of telephone they played calling offensive plays, the Chiefs are in the playoffs again, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

Again, you can be frustrated, but grow up and handle it like a man for gods sake! Even if we were in the playoffs, there would be things to bitch about, but you wouldn't hear a lot of the things you've been hearing lately.

We'd still bitch about the OL, QB, and short yardage RB. Still would like a long term answer for NT, but you also probably wouldn't cry like a bitch so much about the salary cap if the team won the 10-12 they were apparently capable of winning if not for all the aforementioned problems from this season.

[Frankie]

No, I don't believe we do. All of the undrafted FA this year were shit. Maybe you're refering to Harris though. Also, Mims, who I don't think will be spectacular, but I honestly haven't seen much of him.

I think it was Mims and some other signee I was thinking about. Not Harris though.

[jspchief]

Does not mean that Tannehill is a first round QB just b/c you drafted him there. Get a clue.

The problem with Tannehill is that he's an athletic college QB. He benefits greatly from teams worrying about him running, so the pass coverage is a lot more laxed, b/c in the back of their mind, they are just waiting for him to take off if he doesn't see an open man.

The only athletic college QB to transition to the NFL recently is Cam Newton. That is b/c he is the only guy who is athletic enough AND big enough to make an NFL defense respect his athleticism that much while still having the QB ability to hit an open man and make them respect his passing game.

Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Alex Smith or even Mike Vick, and Donovan McNabb depending on how you feel about them.

What the fuck are you talking about? Tannehill is more of a pocket passer than RG3. Probably more than Luck. Have you ever seen him play?

[aturnis]

LMAO there are several others here who share my opinion about the line.

It's good enough to win with but it needs to be upgraded.

Keep calling me a dumbass or ****tard or whatever. It's funny.

I will, b/c it's the consensus around here. I completely agree that this OL is good enough to win with if we had an elite QB. Stated that in the post you quoted fucktard. That was not the point you were making though. You said this line was not that bad. With no context given, how is someone supposed to know exactly what that means? They can't, and therefore must assume that you are endorsing Barry Richardson and Casey Weigmann for 2012.

[FAX]

I fear that Mr. aturnis has gone rogue.

FAX

[aturnis]

What the **** are you talking about? Tannehill is more of a pocket passer than RG3. Probably more than Luck. Have you ever seen him play?

Yes, but he still has the ability to run if he needs to. Which will change the way a defense plays against him.

I like the guy, I do. Just not top 12. Trade back, get him and pick up a second. FANTASTIC

I'll go Tannehill, Osemele, Reynolds in the first two rounds all day! That's not what's been proposed though.

The real question mark about him is the time he has started. Also, he was a WR before they moved him to take over for a bad QB. So, that right there tells you he is an athlete, but as long as that doesn't get in the way of him playing QB, it's all good.

[BigMeatballDave]

I will, b/c it's the consensus around here. I completely agree that this OL is good enough to win with if we had an elite QB. Stated that in the post you quoted fucktard. That was not the point you were making though. You said this line was not that bad. With no context given, how is someone supposed to know exactly what that means? They can't, and therefore must assume that you are endorsing Barry Richardson and Casey Weigmann for 2012.

LMAO

Replacing Richardson and Weigmann is a given and goes without saying.

[jspchief]

Yes, but he still has the ability to run if he needs to. Which will change the way a defense plays against him.

I like the guy, I do. Just not top 12. Trade back, get him and pick up a second. FANTASTIC

I'll go Tannehill, Osemele, Reynolds in the first two rounds all day! That's not what's been proposed though.

The real question mark about him is the time he has started. Also, he was a WR before they moved him to take over for a bad QB. So, that right there tells you he is an athlete, but as long as that doesn't get in the way of him playing QB, it's all good.

Retard. He ran for like 300 yds this year. If you don't know what you are talking about, just stfu.

[Frankie]

What the **** are you talking about? Tannehill is more of a pocket passer than RG3. Probably more than Luck. Have you ever seen him play?

I have always liked classic pocket passers better than scrambling ones. Just my personal preference. What I like about Tannehill is he seems to be a pocket passer who can run if he has to. Ala Roger Staubach.

I will, b/c it's the consensus around here. I completely agree that this OL is good enough to win with if we had an elite QB.

Sorry dude. That simply cannot be agreed with as long as Richardson is our RT

[aturnis]

LMAO seriously?

Rodgers had problems holding the ball too long his first 2 seasons. Intelligence has little to do with that. Unless you think Rodgers is dumb.

I think Rodgers still holds on to the ball. Just like Rape-berger. Rodgers moves very well in the pocket thought and buys time to find receivers coming open late a lot. He can get away with it, b/c he's accurate and smart enough not to make bad decisions. Rodgers does have a lot of Favre in him, b/c he does not want to quit on a play. The difference is, he is smart, accurate and athletic enough to make it work in his favor.

Then again, there is an adjustment period to being a starting QB in the NFL. Tyler Palko didn't not show enough ability or intelligence that would lead anyone to believe he would get better with time.

[aturnis]

LMAO

Replacing Richardson and Weigmann is a given and goes without saying.

Yeah, a given. Right. That's what "this line is not that bad" means. 5 guys on the line and you agree 2 of them need replaced, and you maintain that "this line is not that bad". Right. Just like a '85 Mustang with a cracked block and rusted out body is "not that bad".

Say what you mean, don't expect people to know what you aren't saying.

[aturnis]

Retard. He ran for like 300 yds this year. If you don't know what you are talking about, just stfu.

My god. He'd be a young NFL QB. One who knows he has the ABILITY to run. If he starts holding onto the ball too long, and takes one too many blows, he'll get nervous. Any young, gun shy QB is going to end up breaking the pocket too early. Let alone one who knows he has the ability to run.

I'm not calling him one of those guys. Fact is, he has burnt teams running and defenses know that. Even if it is a big play here and there. If a guy can run, the defense knows it.

I'm just a bit more cautious inside the top 12 I guess. As I said though, trade down, and I'll take him all day long. Ahead of Jones with no reservations.

If we traded down with intentions of drafting him, and someone else picked him too early, I don't care. At least it wasn't me.

[Hammock Parties]

The line IS good enough to win with. We were 10-6 last year.

It's probably not good enough to win a SB, and that's why Richardson has to go.

[ForeverChiefs58]

I have always liked classic pocket passers better than scrambling ones. Just my personal preference. What I like about Tannehill is he seems to be a pocket passer who can run if he has to. Ala Roger Staubach.



Sorry dude. That simply cannot be agreed with as long as Richardson is our RT

If for nothing else, I think Haley should have been fired for keeping Richarson while letting Gaither go. Epic fail.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The line IS good enough to win with. We were 10-6 last year.

It's probably not good enough to win a SB, and that's why Richardson has to go.

It's good enough to win a SB.

This line was no worse than Pittsburgh's line when they beat Arizona, or Green Bay's line last year.

[Hammock Parties]

It's good enough to win a SB.

This line was no worse than Pittsburgh's line when they beat Arizona, or Green Bay's line last year.

Maybe. I tend to think Richardson is SO BAD he would be a giant hole in our pass protection.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It's good enough to win a SB.

This line was no worse than Pittsburgh's line when they beat Arizona, or Green Bay's line last year.

Exactly. I don't see what's so difficult to understand. They've given up ONE sack in 3 games with Orton behind center. The running game will magically be back next year as well if Charles is anywhere close to being 100 percent.

[RealSNR]

It's good enough to win a SB.

This line was no worse than Pittsburgh's line when they beat Arizona, or Green Bay's line last year.Green Bay's line last year was pretty damn good.

Doesn't change the importance of Rodgers, but it helps explain his moments of sheer brilliance a bit.

[tk13]

I think sometimes people underrate Rodgers and Brady's line giving them time to sit back there and throw 50 yard bombs. Just look at the Chiefs game... we destroyed both of their tackles and Rodgers had his worst game of the year. I would believe that you could win a Super Bowl with the line we have... but it can certainly be better. It's like people are afraid of being called a Martyball lover if you think the line should be upgraded.

[tonyetony]

We can win with this line but we can win more with improved play at Center And Right Tackle.

[bricks]

I think sometimes people underrate Rodgers and Brady's line giving them time to sit back there and throw 50 yard bombs. Just look at the Chiefs game... we destroyed both of their tackles and Rodgers had his worst game of the year. I would believe that you could win a Super Bowl with the line we have... but it can certainly be better. It's like people are afraid of being called a Martyball lover if you think the line should be upgraded.

You're right.

It could be better. Im happy that they have three young Olineman. And I still think they are going through a developmental stage.

But I feel that the RT and center position needs to be addressed. The Oline isn't exactly set in stone. I wouldn't complain if they decided to upgrade through the draft.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think sometimes people underrate Rodgers and Brady's line giving them time to sit back there and throw 50 yard bombs. Just look at the Chiefs game... we destroyed both of their tackles and Rodgers had his worst game of the year. I would believe that you could win a Super Bowl with the line we have... but it can certainly be better. It's like people are afraid of being called a Martyball lover if you think the line should be upgraded.

The line can absolutely be upgraded, but they are much better than most give them credit for.

Christ, this line made Jackie Battle look good.

[aturnis]

The line can absolutely be upgraded, but they are much better than most give them credit for.

Christ, this line made Jackie Battle look good.

Depends on what you mean by look good. Get yards on first and second down sure. Third and long? Sure. Third or Fourth and short? No.

Hopefully most here are not fooled. We shouldn't have to have that argument.

[jspchief]

The line can absolutely be upgraded, but they are much better than most give them credit for.

Christ, this line made Jackie Battle look good.

Maybe Chiefs fans are just too spoiled by the Vermeil era line. We forget that that kind of time isn't normal.

[tk13]

I don't think I'm being spoiled by the Vermeil era line... although that'd be nice to have. We could run the ball well at times but it seemed like we got our face bashed in during short yardage situations quite a bit. And obviously had some issues with speed rushers from the right side. I think I'm being generous.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Depends on what you mean by look good. Get yards on first and second down sure. Third and long? Sure. Third or Fourth and short? No.

Hopefully most here are not fooled. We shouldn't have to have that argument.

I think those situations have more to do with situational playcalling and personnel packages than the overall qualilty of the line.

[FloridaMan88]

No, you are retarded for saying that Barry Richardson is "not that bad". He is. Always has been.

Figures that Dumbshit Dave would support Barry Richardson.

[BigMeatballDave]

Figures that Dumbshit Dave would support Barry Richardson.

LMAO

Reading comprehension fail

[aturnis]

LMAO

Reading comprehension fail

Man, you are a super douche! Is this you?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ds_ZphYjBVM/S-rINj4PIcI/AAAAAAAAAB4/0hLwd2Agq3A/s320/super+douche.jpg

Or do you just read his books and watch his show?

[RealSNR]

Who the fuck is that?

[aturnis]

The douche who "teaches" basement dwellers to pick up hot chicks by wearing interesting hats.

[splatbass]

I guess 42 years isn't proof enough. That's two years longer than the Israelites followed Moses through the desert. If you've been following the CP for any amount of time, there has been dozens of examples shown where the Chiefs have gone cheap, and have been caught being petty cheap.

Still opinion. I'm not one to follow the CP "conventional wisdom", because I don't think there are very many wise people here. Lots of people that make assumptions then report them as fact though.

By the way, I've been a Chiefs fan since the late '60s, and on CP since the beginning. I take everything I read here that isn't backed up with actual sources with a grain of salt.

[BigMeatballDave]

Man, you are a super douche! Is this you?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ds_ZphYjBVM/S-rINj4PIcI/AAAAAAAAAB4/0hLwd2Agq3A/s320/super+douche.jpg

Or do you just read his books and watch his show?

LOL who the hell is that?

[gblowfish]

Still opinion. I'm not one to follow the CP "conventional wisdom", because I don't think there are very many wise people here. Lots of people that make assumptions then report them as fact though.

By the way, I've been a Chiefs fan since the late '60s, and on CP since the beginning. I take everything I read here that isn't backed up with actual sources with a grain of salt.

Are you Don Fortune?

Nice to know you think most of the people on CP are "Not Wise." Thanks for letting us know where we stand.

[gblowfish]

Exactly. I don't see what's so difficult to understand. They've given up ONE sack in 3 games with Orton behind center. The running game will magically be back next year as well if Charles is anywhere close to being 100 percent.

Line may have only given up one sack in three games, but that's not the whole story. How many holding penalties this season on our line, and how many of those were on Richardson?

[Hammock Parties]

Line may have only given up one sack in three games, but that's not the whole story. How many holding penalties this season on our line, and how many of those were on Richardson?

Albert -3

Lilja -1

Wiegmann -1

Asamoah -1

Richardson -2

[Chiefaholic]

We need a new center, RT and possibly LG

LT-Albert
LG/C- Hudson
RG- Asamoah

There positions are set in stone with Hudson providing an option at two positions. We need a RT and the best C or LG available (with Hudson filling the remaining position). THEN we need a vet as depth for the interior line.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Albert -3

Lilja -1

Wiegmann -1

Asamoah -1

Richardson -2

Did Richardson end up getting rated as the worst RT in the NFL?

[patteeu]

Did Richardson end up getting rated as the worst RT in the NFL?

Yes

[Marcellus]

Albert -3

Lilja -1

Wiegmann -1

Asamoah -1

Richardson -2

Didn't the Jets LT get called for 10 holding penalties this year?

[ForeverChiefs58]

LT-Albert
LG/C- Hudson
RG- Asamoah

There positions are set in stone with Hudson providing an option at two positions. We need a RT and the best C or LG available (with Hudson filling the remaining position). THEN we need a vet as depth for the interior line.

If we could get that and and some depth at S and TE, plus a couple big splashes at NT and RB would be great also. Mix in of course priority #1 at QB and this team gets dangerous.

[Hammock Parties]

Yes

LMAO

Yes, but he wasn't the worst offensive tackle, just right tackle.

He was, however, the king of shitty run blocking tackles!

[Marcellus]

Line may have only given up one sack in three games, but that's not the whole story. How many holding penalties this season on our line, and how many of those were on Richardson?

Richardson sucks ass but his being on the field has jack and shit to do with $. How much would a decent RT have cost us for the season over what BR was paid? $1MM? It's not about $ it's about Pioli being retarded.

[Hammock Parties]

Didn't the Jets LT get called for 10 holding penalties this year?

No. 0.

[Marcellus]

LMAO

Yes, but he wasn't the worst offensive tackle, just right tackle.

He was, however, the king of shitty run blocking tackles!


Who had the 10 holding penalties at LT? It was on NFLN today and it was a guy on a popular team I just can't remember.

[AustinChief]

Albert -3

Lilja -1

Wiegmann -1

Asamoah -1

Richardson -2

Let's put all of these in one spot...

False starts...

Albert - 6

Lilja - 0

Weigmann - 1

Asamoah - 3

Richardson - 6

AND...

sacks allowed (this is not as easy to quantify.. so take with grain of salt)

Albert - 5

Lilja - 2

Weigmann - 1.5

Asamoah - 3

Richardson - 4.5

[Hammock Parties]

Let's put all of these in one spot...

False starts...

Albert - 6

Lilja - 0

Weigmann - 1

Asamoah - 3

Richardson - 6

AND...

sacks allowed (this is not as easy to quantify.. so take with grain of salt)

Albert - 5

Lilja - 2

Weigmann - 1.5

Asamoah - 3

Richardson - 4.5

PFF has 7 sacks allowed for Richardson, 2 for Asamoah.

[AustinChief]

PFF has 7 sacks allowed for Richardson, 2 for Asamoah.

as I said... it's a hard stat to quantify exactly.. I'm not a big fan of PFF so I'll stick with my figures... even though I agree with the implication of theirs.

[GloryDayz]

Still opinion. I'm not one to follow the CP "conventional wisdom", because I don't think there are very many wise people here. Lots of people that make assumptions then report them as fact though.

By the way, I've been a Chiefs fan since the late '60s, and on CP since the beginning. I take everything I read here that isn't backed up with actual sources with a grain of salt.

Wow, you're the guy the ax murderer wants on the jury...he'll walk!!! Suffice it to say, much like the Hunts are cheap SOBs who don't care about the team, the city, or football, I'll speculate that the sun will rise in the east in the morning..

You crack me the f*ck up!!! Clark, is that you???? Kick the whore of your crotch and start acting like an owner!!

[Frankie]

LMAO

Yes, but he wasn't the worst offensive tackle, just right tackle.

He was, however, the king of shitty run blocking tackles!

I thought the one defense for Richardson was that as bad as he was at protecting the passer he had at least some talent in run blocking. I must have looked away from him in disgust too many times not to notice his shittiness in run blocking too.

[aturnis]

as I said... it's a hard stat to quantify exactly.. I'm not a big fan of PFF so I'll stick with my figures... even though I agree with the implication of theirs.

How does hosted.stats.com come by their stats? Are those official by the NFL or what?

[Frankie]

AND...

sacks allowed (this is not as easy to quantify.. so take with grain of salt)
.....
.....

Weigmann - 1.5
.....

.....
I just do not to believe this. I've seen too many rushes to come smack through the middle of the line to believe it.

[AustinChief]

How does hosted.stats.com come by their stats? Are those official by the NFL or what?

None of them are official stats... so you will always see great deal of variance.

I bet I could find 5 sites with 5 different sets of stats for our line.

[aturnis]

I thought the one defense for Richardson was that as bad as he was at protecting the passer he had at least some talent in run blocking. I must have looked away from him in disgust too many times not to notice his shittiness in run blocking too.

Probably just remember how he was supposed to be a roadgrader! coming out of college.

[aturnis]

None of them are official stats... so you will always see great deal of variance.

I bet I could find 5 sites with 5 different sets of stats for our line.

I agree, but doesn't PFF have 5 guys watch each game and come to a consensus decision? Omega?

[petegz28]

The point is our O-line sucks. Yes, they had a better peformance in pass protection since Orton came on and but they also fail miserably in run blocking. Particularly in short yardage situations.

[Frankie]

The point is our O-line sucks. Yes, they had a better peformance in pass protection since Orton came on and but they also fail miserably in run blocking. Particularly in short yardage situations.

The point is with a total turd for RT and an undersized geezer for center our O-line cannot in all fairness be called anything but sucky. Fix those two problems and the line will suddenly become one of the better ones in the NFL. Orton is just a good enough QB to make shit salad taste somewhat edible if you close your eyes and hold your nose.

[petegz28]

The point is with a total turd for RT and an undersized geezer for center our O-line cannot in all fairness be called anything but sucky. Fix those two problems and the line will suddenly become one of the better ones in the NFL. Orton is just a good enough QB to make shit salad taste somewhat edible if you close your eyes and hold your nose.

I think you just repeated what I said

[BigMeatballDave]

The point is our O-line sucks. Yes, they had a better peformance in pass protection since Orton came on and but they also fail miserably in run blocking. Particularly in short yardage situations.

Good QB play makes a huge difference. GB and Pitt aren't any better in pass protection. They appear better because these type of QBs move around well in the pocket.

[Frankie]

I think you just agreed with what I said

FYP

[Dexter Manley]

Indeed, upgrading the OL should have been much higher on the list of things to do in 2009 when Pioli was first hired, certainly higher than "switching to a 3-4 because Bill B plays 3-4 and Bill B is just my hero..."

[htismaqe]

Indeed, upgrading the OL should have been much higher on the list of things to do in 2009 when Pioli was first hired, certainly higher than "switching to a 3-4 because Bill B plays 3-4 and Bill B is just my hero..."

Oh Jason...Jason Babin, where did you go? :deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

[Coogs]

Since both Martin and DeCastro are projected right in the range where we will be picking in the draft by Kiper and friends, I focused on watcching DeCastro last night. I'm no offensive line guru by any stretch of the imagination, but he looked pretty darn good last night. Got a pretty good push in the run game on running plays his direction. When he pulled around the left side, he was out there quick, and opened up some pretty nice gains for Stanford. And in pass protection he looked very good as well.

I DVR the game, and plan on watching Martin closer a some point in time, but am not sure we need a LT. From what little bit I did see of him last night, he looked to be very good as well in pass protection anyway.

And while I am not a big fan of this plan... DeCastro in 1st and Osemele in the 2nd... the 49ers went RT and G at 11 and 17 in the first round in the 2010 draft. Seems to be working out OK. :shrug:

[MoreLemonPledge]

DraftPlanet.

[Simply Red]

No disrespect to a Kansas City legend, but Lemmy is probably more in touch with today's game.

http://i41.tinypic.com/dbgpqr.jpg

[htismaqe]

And while I am not a big fan of this plan... DeCastro in 1st and Osemele in the 2nd... the 49ers went RT and G at 11 and 17 in the first round in the 2010 draft. Seems to be working out OK. :shrug:

It won't be working out OK when they get smoked in the playoffs. They're the mid-90's Chiefs...

[Coogs]

It won't be working out OK when they get smoked in the playoffs. They're the mid-90's Chiefs...

Yeah, but at least they have tried to draft QB's high in the 1st round too. Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of this plan. I'm on the trade up wagon right now, but it is still early in the game.

[Simply Red]

Lemmy was born in 1945, he's gettin' up there. Ironically though, Motorhead is still united.

[milkman]

Keep Hudson at guard draft Brewster in the 2nd round.

Quoted to express general agreement with this plan.

I would consider signing Nick Hardwick or Chris Myers in free agency of the Chargers or the Texans allow either to hit the market.

He wasn't anywhere near the elite QB's of today though, and would probably not succeed in todays NFL. I wonder if that's why he is calling for OL, b/c he sees himself in the Qb's we have, and thinks that they are good enough, b/c he was.

I disagree.

The rules make playing QB far easier in today's NFL than it did in Lenny's day.

He was, at the time of his retirement, the highest rated and most accurate passer in NFL history, in an era when DBs could mug receivers until the ball was in the air, and O-Lineman were not allowed to use their hands to block.

Not to metion that the defense could behead recievers to dislodge balls.

Lenny would be a Drew Brees type in today's NFL.

Who is, though, from that era and before?

A number of QBs.

Johnny Unitas, John Hadl, Roger Staubaugh, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Bobby Layne, YA Title.....


The list could go on and on.

Good point. Nobody passed as much as they do now in the NFL. The rules allowed for a balanced attack, there were no domes so the run was clearly a must have in cold weather, and a complex defense was sending a safety to blitz.

Defenses were not as complex, but they were not nearly as handcuffed either.

[Hammock Parties]

I agree, but doesn't PFF have 5 guys watch each game and come to a consensus decision? Omega?

They have five people on each game. I don't know what their process is.

The stats from PFF and hosted.stats.com are pretty close in any event. The only real discrepancy is Richardson's sack total, and everyone agrees he sucks anyway.

[BigMeatballDave]

Lemmy was born in 1945, he's gettin' up there. Ironically though, Motorhead is still united.

1935