if you were GM would you trade up for one of the franchise QBs?

[chiefscafan]

Which one and what would you give up?

Me I'd try to get the rams pick

I'd trade Bowe, Dorsey, cassel, our first next and second this year

For Lloyd and first rounder

[Rams Fan]

Stop it.

The Rams aren't going to trade for Cassel. Lloyd is a free agent.

[KC_Lee]

For RGIII I'd trade this year's 1st & 3rd and next year's 1st and 5th. Maybe toss in next year's third if need be.

[Sofa King]

Which one and what would you give up?

Me I'd try to get the rams pick

I'd trade Bowe, Dorsey, cassel, our first next and second this year

For Lloyd and first rounder

Jesus..... Why the hell would they do that?

Why would WE do that?

Stop trying to get douche votes.

[chiefscafan]

Ok I didn't know bout Lloyd thanks. Hey it's an interesting scenario. Who really knows what pioli is gonna do.

[Rams Fan]

And the Rams owner said Bradford is his guy. So stop the silly talk.

[chiefscafan]

KC do u think that would be enough? I personally like luck and RG 3 I see a gigantic drop off in the next tier of qbs

[Coogs]

If the Colts are going to trade to rebuild for Manning, I assume they want picks this year as his time is running out.

I'd consider giving up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this year and a 1st next year. Then I would move Cassel for what ever we could to try and recoup a couple of picks. Even if it is for something just like a 3rd and a 5th.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Wow. This isn't Madden kid.

[chiefscafan]

I like that coogs is that enough though??

That would leave us with practically no picks

[Sofa King]

I can't wait to see Pestilence's response to this thread.

[chiefscafan]

Let me ask you why are you so negative. I'm just trying to bring up an interesting topic. If you don't want to participate fine. But those who are currious about this scenario are free to post.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Let me ask you why are you so negative. I'm just trying to bring up an interesting topic. If you don't want to participate fine. But those who are currious about this scenario are free to post.

You are including guys that are free agents and a QB the Rams would want no part of. It is simply dumb.

[hometeam]

people act like trading up 4 or 5 spots to get rg3 will cost us a ricky williams type sum.

These threads are getting old. You trade up to get a guy yes, but do you give away ALLLLLLL that shit? no, and we wont have too.

[doomy3]

Let me ask you why are you so negative. I'm just trying to bring up an interesting topic. If you don't want to participate fine. But those who are currious about this scenario are free to post.

This isn't an interesting topic. It is a topic that has already been beaten to death, and will continue to be beaten to death for the next 3 months.

[Coogs]

I like that coogs is that enough though??

That would leave us with practically no picks

If we could get a 3rd and 5th (or 4th and 6th, or whatever for Cassel)...

1st, 3rd, 2 5ths, 6th, 7th

or second scenario...

1st, 4th, 5th, 2 6ths, 7th

... that is where the scouts come in and make day 3 of the draft work.

[Brock]

people act like trading up 4 or 5 spots to get rg3 will cost us a ricky williams type sum.

These threads are getting old. You trade up to get a guy yes, but do you give away ALLLLLLL that shit? no, and we wont have too.

It's going to cost a lot more than you think.

[scho63]

You guys are all wasting time on these silly scenarios. KC's management is NEVER going to get into a bidding war with picks and trades with teams like Washington, Miami, or other big spenders in the draft. They never have and never will. Not their nature and after 40 years haven't you guys learned already?

[Dexter Manley]

In order to trade up, another team must want to trade down, and that isn't always the case...

[chiefscafan]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted it to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?

[Dexter Manley]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted OT to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?


Incredible, this Nick Wright knows precisely what the Rams would trade for, even as the Rams currently do not have a GM or a HC...

Welcome to Dexter Manley University, young man...

[Brock]

Multiple first round picks. And other picks.

[trndobrd]

Why do people think the Chiefs would get value for Cassel?

[Rams Fan]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted OT to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?

Then Nick Wright is a fucking idiot.

[Chiefnj2]

people act like trading up 4 or 5 spots to get rg3 will cost us a ricky williams type sum.

These threads are getting old. You trade up to get a guy yes, but do you give away ALLLLLLL that shit? no, and we wont have too.

KC has to get to #3 to get him. You have teams at 4, 6, 8 and 12 that all need QB's and maybe 10 (Buffalo).

[BoneKrusher]

did i dream this?
or did Lombardi say he would take RG3 over Luck.

i know RG's hot right now but i'm not sure i'd go that far.

[Dexter Manley]

did i dream this?
or did Lombardi say he would take RG3 over Luck.

i know RG's hot right now but i'm not sure i'd go that far.


There are quite a few who question Luck's arm strength, and give the nod to RGIII, who has more arm strength.

But it is pretty early in the process...

[htismaqe]

No way does Bowe and our 1st get it done. It will take more than that to trade with STL.

[Dexter Manley]

No way does Bowe and our 1st get it done. It will take more than that to trade with STL.


Just ask the Rams GM and HC, as soon as they are hired...

[chiefscafan]

In truth to all nay Sayers you all are so sure what pioli will do but even you don't know what pioli is thinking or if any pressure clark hunt may have put on him.

What if clark said I wanted a franchise QB you told me Matt was it. You also told me that loud mouth coach Halley from Arizona was gonna straighten up and not embarrass my franchise. Scott you were wrong on both accounts. I want my franchise QB figure out if luck or RG 3 are it and do whatever it takes to get them.

Maybe far fetched but my comment holds truth to it how do you know what pioli will do.

[the Talking Can]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted it to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?

nick wright is a fucking idiot

[the Talking Can]

and I'd trade our whole draft for RG3...probably not enough though

[O.city]

Bowe, who has his droppy moments, was absolutely dominating one of the better corners Sunday and when he went down our offense went to shit.

Yet fans of this team can't wait to trade one of the better receivers we have ever had.

I realize getting a qb is utmost need, but for one you aren't going to be trading players it will be likely picks.

The skill positions on offense and the defense is ready for a run. Trade as many picks as you can to get whichever guy you like the most.

[trndobrd]

No way does Bowe and our 1st get it done. It will take more than that to trade with STL.

Add in Cassel and Jones?

[BoneKrusher]

There are quite a few who question Luck's arm strength, and give the nod to RGIII, who has more arm strength.

But it is pretty early in the process...

just curious, from everything i've read the experts say Luck is a cant miss prospect.

[O.city]

Luck doesn't have an absolute cannon but its pretty damn good.

He is on an NFL level at basically everything else a quarterback does.

[Fat Elvis]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted it to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?

I think that is a fairly realistic trade. There has been a lot of talk that it would take 3 firsts to get into position to get RG3 (St. Louis' pick) and that would probably be the equivalent. We're gonna tag Bowe--and the franchise tag is worth 2 first round picks. A wide receiver is a definite need for the Rams and Bowe is a proven commodity. He is a huge target and would be lights out with Bradford throwing him the ball. If I am the Rams, that is certainly a trade scenario that I would entertain.

[The Franchise]

This is a new topic.

[chiefscafan]

Yeah true but the draft guys now are saying he really doesn't have a strong arm. Although they did say similar things bout Peyton coming out. RG 3 looks good too I think both of them will probably eventually be great QBs in this league

[doomy3]

That's why I posted this I'm curious what it takes. Nick wright says a first and Dwayne Bowe to rams would do it. I was thinking it would have to be more than that. I didn't know bout Lloyd started a new job and I've barely had time to breathe. Or even look at list of free agents. I just posted what someone else on a trade topic said. I posted it to see your reaction. So obviously that would be too much.

Ok for real we have to realistically move into top 3 for a shot at one of them. We are 11 or 12 depending on a coin flip we have to move up 9 or 11 spots to have a chance. I have no clue what it would take.

What do u think it realistically takes to move up that far?

The interesting thing is that this could have been posted in any of the other dozens of threads discussing the cost to move up to grab a QB. You do realize you don't have to actually start a thread to ask a question, right? You could simply post the question in a thread already devoted to the subject.

[Rams Fan]

I think that is a fairly realistic trade. There has been a lot of talk that it would take 3 firsts to get into position to get RG3 (St. Louis' pick) and that would probably be the equivalent. We're gonna tag Bowe--and the franchise tag is worth 2 first round picks. A wide receiver is a definite need for the Rams and Bowe is a proven commodity. He is a huge target and would be lights out with Bradford throwing him the ball. If I am the Rams, that is certainly a trade scenario that I would entertain.

You're overvaluing Bowe. And it is going to cost whoever resigns Bowe some $.

Bowe will be going into his 6th season next year. Not worth it.

[htismaqe]

Bowe, who has his droppy moments, was absolutely dominating one of the better corners Sunday and when he went down our offense went to shit.

Yet fans of this team can't wait to trade one of the better receivers we have ever had.

I realize getting a qb is utmost need, but for one you aren't going to be trading players it will be likely picks.

The skill positions on offense and the defense is ready for a run. Trade as many picks as you can to get whichever guy you like the most.

The hate for Bowe is pretty silly.

[ChiefsCountry]

The hate for Bowe is pretty silly.

Real silly. Especially since Sunday gave us the opportunity to see the passing game without Bowe.

[the Talking Can]

trading bowe ranks up there with making Albert a guard...

people hate our best players and then spin fantasies about turds like cassel or orton leading us to the promised land...weird...

[chiefscafan]

Never thought of that fat Elvis . Well if I'm the chiefs I do it in a heart beat. Yes the O looked horrible without him but the O hasn't been lights out with him either this year.

Remember moeaki and charles come back Baldwin. Has a full training camp with a potential franchise QB throwing them the ball? This O would be scary again. I'd miss Bowe but for the chance at a super star QB isn't it worth it?

[O.city]

IMO if I'm trading up I'm going after Luck. I don't think the Colts really wanna draft him and I don't think he wants to go there.

Witht he good news on the ACL front, if those guys are healthy next year, this team with a RT and a NT is SB ready. Luck can come in and be Matt Ryan from the get go.

Add a few free agents and let the chips fall and see what happens.

[Chiefnj2]

Especially since Sunday gave us the opportunity to see the passing game without Bowe.

About the same number of points with Bowe.

Still, he's the only real receiving threat the team has at this point. Breaston's a slot receiver and Baldwin pretty much sucked all things considered.

[O.city]

Never thought of that fat Elvis . Well if I'm the chiefs I do it in a heart beat. Yes the O looked horrible without him but the O hasn't been lights out with him either this year.

Remember moeaki and charles come back Baldwin. Has a full training camp with a potential franchise QB throwing them the ball? This O would be scary again. I'd miss Bowe but for the chance at a super star QB isn't it worth it?

With Blackmon in the draft no one that high wants to trade down for Bowe.

And Bowe is proven. Look at what he did with Orton throwing him the ball.

Imagine Lucks accurate ass throwing it to him 10 times a game.

If anything we need to add a wr. We need a burner. Maybe Baldwin can be it but we need someone who has the ability to run past people.

[suds79]

IMO if I'm trading up I'm going after Luck. I don't think the Colts really wanna draft him and I don't think he wants to go there.


Fat chance. Seriously no way. Colts are taking that pick. It's not up for trade.

Wish it was. But I just can't see that.


Edit: just found this.. http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-draft/2012/1/3/2679036/2012-nfl-draft-andrew-luck-says-hell-play-wherever-hes-picked

[chiefscafan]

If I were to post in one of the other trading up threads I would have to search through it to find it. Weed through all the other off the subject talk and wait for someone if anyone to respond.

This seems quicker and to the point but thanks for your comments.

[HemiEd]

people act like trading up 4 or 5 spots to get rg3 will cost us a ricky williams type sum.

These threads are getting old. You trade up to get a guy yes, but do you give away ALLLLLLL that shit? no, and we wont have too.

You might want to take a gander at this 2012 draft value chart (http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html)

It will take a lot.

[O.city]

No worries Chiefscan

[O.city]

Fat chance. Seriously no way. Colts are taking that pick. It's not up for trade.

Wish it was. But I just can't see that.

If Peyton is 100 percent, you know what you have in him. He can prob. play 4 more years that would be at a SB level.

Trade it and rebuild around him, if you want a qb trade some of the picks you get next eyar and take Barkley.

When you have a chance to win SBs you do it.

I'm not sure Lucks dad will let him go to INDy.

[htismaqe]

trading bowe ranks up there with making Albert a guard...

people hate our best players and then spin fantasies about turds like cassel or orton leading us to the promised land...weird...

This.

[chiefscafan]

Heck yeah I'd love luck but colts are drafting him. Look what happened yesterday manning is talking to polian when the discussion is halted and polian has to leave where he is fired by irsay. Sure doesnt sound like peyton is in the loop anymore to me. The colts are moving on with luck they aren't trading that pick.

[suds79]

You might want to take a gander at this 2012 draft value chart (http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html)

It will take a lot.

Thanks for posting that link. Lets see what it'll take.

To get RG3 you'd have to at least draft up to #3 (possibly #2) to get Minn's spot because Cleveland is 4.

#3 = 2,200

Lets say we get #11 = 1,250

So we'd have to give up our first. Lets add our 2nd round. 470

1720 so far. Not good enough. How about our 3rd? 220.

1940. Nope? Keep going. 4th? 80.

Okay at this point we're just looking at giving next years high draft picks. So yes it will take a lot.

[O.city]

Fat chance. Seriously no way. Colts are taking that pick. It's not up for trade.

Wish it was. But I just can't see that.


Edit: just found this.. http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-draft/2012/1/3/2679036/2012-nfl-draft-andrew-luck-says-hell-play-wherever-hes-picked

Luck is about to go thru more scrutiny by nfl scouts and Gms than anything he has ever been thru and he's been thru a ton already.

What do you expect him to say?

[Chiefnj2]

If Peyton is 100 percent, you know what you have in him. He can prob. play 4 more years that would be at a SB level.

Trade it and rebuild around him, if you want a qb trade some of the picks you get next eyar and take Barkley.

When you have a chance to win SBs you do it.

I'm not sure Lucks dad will let him go to INDy.

Peyton is done.

[O.city]

Peyton is done.

Hence what I said. If he can be 100 percent trade the picks.

If he can't, cut him and move on. It's a business and fans will be pissed but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[the Talking Can]

Thanks for posting that link. Lets see what it'll take.

To get RG3 you'd have to at least draft up to #3 (possibly #2) to get Minn's spot because Cleveland is 4.

#3 = 2,200

Lets say we get #11 = 1,250

So we'd have to give up our first. Lets add our 2nd round. 470

1720 so far. Not good enough. How about our 3rd? 220.

1940. Nope? Keep going. 4th? 80.

Okay at this point we're just looking at giving next years high draft picks. So yes it will take a lot.

it will take next years #1...unless they are idiots...

[DaKCMan AP]

The hate for Bowe is pretty silly.

Real silly. Especially since Sunday gave us the opportunity to see the passing game without Bowe.

trading bowe ranks up there with making Albert a guard...

people hate our best players and then spin fantasies about turds like cassel or orton leading us to the promised land...weird...

.

[O.city]

You are basically just giving up 1 first round pick. YOu are getting one back this year.


I'd go this year and next years 1 and 3 and negotiate from there.

[Micjones]

No. I'd stand pat and draft Tannehill.
This team still has other holes.

[suds79]

No. I'd stand pat and draft Tannehill.
This team still has other holes.

I'll probably get flamed for this but if the Chiefs do not trade up for RG3, then I want them to take the next best prospect which is Tannehill.

I just don't see how drafting an OT is going to do us any good in a league where the only thing that matters is QB.

Might as well roll the dice.

[O.city]

I guess until we get an all pro at every fucking position on this team, some will think we have holes.

To win a Superbowl, you need a franchise qb, an opportunistic defense, an elite pass rusher, and solid wrs. Other things are needed, but aren't a must have.

Which one are we missing?

[HemiEd]

Thanks for posting that link. Lets see what it'll take.

To get RG3 you'd have to at least draft up to #3 (possibly #2) to get Minn's spot because Cleveland is 4.

#3 = 2,200

Lets say we get #11 = 1,250

So we'd have to give up our first. Lets add our 2nd round. 470

1720 so far. Not good enough. How about our 3rd? 220.

1940. Nope? Keep going. 4th? 80.

Okay at this point we're just looking at giving next years high draft picks. So yes it will take a lot.

Yes, and in previous years the high picks were terribly expensive to sign, so it helped motivate teams to trade out of those picks. Not this year, teams are going to cherish those picks.

[HemiEd]

I guess until we get an all pro at every ****ing position on this team, some will think we have holes.

To win a Superbowl, you need a franchise qb, an opportunistic defense, an elite pass rusher, and solid wrs. Other things are needed, but aren't a must have.

Which one are we missing?

The guy that has trouble putting a ball cap on his head?

[Chiefnj2]

Hence what I said. If he can be 100 percent trade the picks.

If he can't, cut him and move on. It's a business and fans will be pissed but you gotta do what you gotta do.

They would never know if Manning is 100% until he actually plays and takes some hits.

[Micjones]

I'll probably get flamed for this but if the Chiefs do not trade up for RG3, then I want them to take the next best prospect which is Tannehill.

I just don't see how drafting an OT is going to do us any good in a league where the only thing that matters is QB.

Might as well roll the dice.

Doesn't have to be an either or proposition.
We can draft an Offensive Tackle as well.

[BigRedChief]

No way does Bowe and our 1st get it done. It will take more than that to trade with STL.Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

[DaKCMan AP]

Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

I would the whole thing.

[Brock]

Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

That won't be enough.

[Sofa King]

Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/10926d1278356325-keyboard-colour-scheme-painting-1x09-storming-castle-animated-gif-excited-buster-arrested-development-7915175-230-249.gif?w=230&h=249

[BigRedChief]

I would the whole thing.I think its BS. Just the same rumor making the rounds but it is TV/Radio guys sending it. If true I think the Chiefs are dreaming if they think they will be able to jump up to #4/5 with that deal. It's going to cost a lot more than that to make that deal.

[Chiefnj2]

People need to realize that "giving up" this years first round pick isn't giving up anything - you're flipping picks.

[suds79]

Doesn't have to be an either or proposition.
We can draft an Offensive Tackle as well.

100% agree. A RT can be found later in the draft.

[BigRedChief]

That won't be enough.I agree. It's going to take 2 #1's and at least another #2 and a #3 maybe both and a couple of #5-6's.

Supply and demand. It's going to be a sellers market.

[sedated]

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

I could see that order for the first 3 picks. STL and MIN won't draft QBs. But with CLE at 4, WAS at 6, and MIA at 9, either of those teams could have their choice of trading partners, and not have to go all the way down to 12.

My guess is that CLE jumps up from 4 to 2, and STL hopes it can still get Blackmon at 4.

[Lzen]

Some of you guys are nuts. No way I'd trade a bunch of picks for one guy who may not turn out to be a great player. Sure, most likely he will. But there are no guarantees. No Ditka trading the entire draft for Williams type scenario for me. We have other holes that need filled (OL, DT, backup TE, backup safeties).

[Chiefnj2]

Not enough elite blue chips to get St Louis or Minnesota to move down out of the top 10. Neither would probably want to miss out on Kalil or Blackmon.

The problem is that right now the upper tier of the draft appears to only be 4 players deep.

[Brock]

Some of you guys are nuts. No way I'd trade a bunch of picks for one guy who may not turn out to be a great player. Sure, most likely he will. But there are no guarantees. No Ditka trading the entire draft for Williams type scenario for me. We have other holes that need filled (OL, DT, backup TE, backup safeties).

Even if you filled every one of those "holes", you have a black hole that could swallow the sun at QB.

[chiefscafan]

Yep it's looking like first second this year and our first next year. I still say if RG 3 grades out we should do it. With a QB this team contends for the superbowl.

[suds79]

We have other holes that need filled (OL, DT, backup TE, backup safeties).

There will always be holes. There's never going to be a time where a team says "yep. We're all perfect except for QB."

You have to do it sooner or later. Truth of the matter is all those other holes don't matter when you don't have a QB.

[sedated]

With a QB this team contends for the superbowl.

With Cam Newton, yes. With Vince Young, no.

[the Talking Can]

Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

don't tase me bro

wait, I mean don't tease me....

[the Talking Can]

Some of you guys are nuts. No way I'd trade a bunch of picks for one guy who may not turn out to be a great player. Sure, most likely he will. But there are no guarantees. No Ditka trading the entire draft for Williams type scenario for me. We have other holes that need filled (OL, DT, backup TE, backup safeties).

your way has worked well for the Chiefs, congrats

[Fat Elvis]

The hate for Bowe is pretty silly.

How is including Bowe in a trade for a franchise QB hating on him? I think Bowe is fantastic; I also think if you want to move up to the #2 pick to get a franchise QB it will require Bowe as part of the trade since Bradford needs an elite receiver. If I have to choose between a franchise WR and a franchise QB, I'm gonna pick a franchise QB each and every time. Bowe's full value as a WR will never be realized on the Chiefs since we don't have a decent QB to throw him the ball. Couple that with the fact that he will command Larry Fitz money and he can hamstring the organization from a cap standpoint and prevent us from ever getting a franchise QB.

A franchise QB will raise the level of play of all the recievers on the team which transforms the offense; a franchise receiver will let Matt Cassel go to the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

[htismaqe]

How is including Bowe in a trade for a franchise QB hating on him? I think Bowe is fantastic; I also think if you want to move up to the #2 pick to get a franchise QB it will require Bowe as part of the trade since Bradford needs an elite receiver. If I have to choose between a franchise WR and a franchise QB, I'm gonna pick a franchise QB each and every time. Bowe's full value as a WR will never be realized on the Chiefs since we don't have a decent QB to throw him the ball. Couple that with the fact that he will command Larry Fitz money and he can hamstring the organization from a cap standpoint and prevent us from ever getting a franchise QB.

A franchise QB will raise the level of play of all the recievers on the team which transforms the offense; a franchise receiver will let Matt Cassel go to the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

Go back and look at the posts. It wasn't just "trade Bowe".

It was "he drops too many passes, trade Bowe". Continuing a couple of threads from last week about how terrible Bowe is because he cost us all of these games.

Context, sir!

[BossChief]

I'd give my first and any two players we have to get Luck or RG3.

Maybe more, if that what it takes.

We MUST make our move this year.

[DaKCMan AP]

Some of you guys are nuts. No way I'd trade a bunch of picks for one guy who may not turn out to be a great player. Sure, most likely he will. But there are no guarantees. No Ditka trading the entire draft for Williams type scenario for me. We have other holes that need filled (OL, DT, backup TE, backup safeties).

http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html

By that chart, this year's 1st, next year's 1st plus a 2nd/3rd (this year or next) could get it done.

That's giving up 3 picks to get 1.. a net loss of 2 picks. that doesn't qualify as "a bunch" and those 2 picks as you say "may not turn out to be a great player".

Our 2nd round pick history outside of Brandon Flowers: Dexter McCluster, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Junior Siavii, Kris Wilson, Kawika Mitchell, Eddie Freeman, William Bartee, Mike Cloud... should I keep going?

[BossChief]

1st round picks are basically a hand of blackjacks chance at getting a really good player.

That goes down to 1/3 for second rounders.

After that, the percentages fall off a cliff.

Anyone that wouldn't trade 2 firsts and a second for a elite quarterback prospect is a damn fool.

[Frosty]

http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html

By that chart, this year's 1st, next year's 1st plus a 2nd/3rd (this year or next) could get it done.

That's giving up 3 picks to get 1.. a net loss of 2 picks.

But then we might miss out on the next Tyson Jackson and Dexter McCluster.

:doh!:

[ChiefsCountry]

That won't be enough.

According to the trade chart, it would be pretty close.

[Lzen]

your way has worked well for the Chiefs, congrats

I'm not saying don't trade up if its possible to grab a RGIII. I'm just saying I don't think the gamble is worth it to trade everything including the kitchen sink. What happens if RGIII or even....gasp....Luck bust?

[DaKCMan AP]

I'm not saying don't trade up if its possible to grab a RGIII. I'm just saying I don't think the gamble is worth it to trade everything including the kitchen sink. What happens if RGIII or even....gasp....Luck bust?

You draft another QB in 3-4 years? :shrug:

What do you consider to be the kitchen sink? How much is too much?

[Brock]

According to the trade chart, it would be pretty close.

Trade chart is irrelevant at this point. High first rounders are probably worth twice as much as they were last year.

[Lzen]

http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html

By that chart, this year's 1st, next year's 1st plus a 2nd/3rd (this year or next) could get it done.

That's giving up 3 picks to get 1.. a net loss of 2 picks. that doesn't qualify as "a bunch" and those 2 picks as you say "may not turn out to be a great player".

Our 2nd round pick history outside of Brandon Flowers: Dexter McCluster, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Junior Siavii, Kris Wilson, Kawika Mitchell, Eddie Freeman, William Bartee, Mike Cloud... should I keep going?

This could get which player? Luck? Or RGIII?

Believe me, I would love to have either one of those guys. But I'm a lot more sold on Luck being a future HOFer.

[ChiefsCountry]

Trade chart is irrelevant at this point. High first rounders are probably worth twice as much as they were last year.

No its not.

[Brock]

No its not.

Yeah, I think it is. The market hasn't been set yet with the new salary restrictions on rookies.

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

Stop it.

The Rams aren't going to trade for Cassel. Lloyd is a free agent.

http://wklondon.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c823e53ef013484a71549970c-400wi

You will trade for Matt Cassel

[BossChief]

I'm not saying don't trade up if its possible to grab a RGIII. I'm just saying I don't think the gamble is worth it to trade everything including the kitchen sink. What happens if RGIII or even....gasp....Luck bust?

You try again in 3 or 4 years.

Let's say you could trade Dwayne Bowe and Tamba Hali (as rookies) for a rookie John Elway or Steve Young.

You would be a fool to NOT make that trade, would you not?

I used that example because it represents our best back to back 1st round picks in recent memory.

Shit, I'd trade DJ, Tamba and Bowe. Our best three year stretch, in retrospect.

You don't win anything without a quality quarterback and if we are anywhere near striking range to get one of them, there is no price that is "too high"

[HemiEd]

Go back and look at the posts. It wasn't just "trade Bowe".

It was "he drops too many passes, trade Bowe". Continuing a couple of threads from last week about how terrible Bowe is because he cost us all of these games.

Context, sir!

I agree, this team has actually gone as long without a #1 receiver, as it has a franchise QB. The experience Bowe has now, is worth something, and he is a legit #1 IMO. No way I trade him, unless he brings 2 #1s value.

[ROYC75]

If the Colts are going to trade to rebuild for Manning, I assume they want picks this year as his time is running out.

I'd consider giving up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this year and a 1st next year. Then I would move Cassel for what ever we could to try and recoup a couple of picks. Even if it is for something just like a 3rd and a 5th.

Hell No!

[ChiefsCountry]

Yeah, I think it is. The market hasn't been set yet with the new salary restrictions on rookies.

New salary restrictions don't mean jack in the scheme of things other than paying huge ass salary bonuses. The trade chart is still in value and the teams will still use it.

[HemiEd]

Trade chart is irrelevant at this point. High first rounders are probably worth twice as much as they were last year.

I believe the 2012 chart that I linked, already takes that into account.

[BigRedChief]

Trade chart is irrelevant at this point. High first rounders are probably worth twice as much as they were last year. This!

Luck and RGIII are going to make the standard draft value chart irrelevant this year for the top 5 picks.

[Coogs]

Hell No! Noted.

[Coogs]

You try again in 3 or 4 years.

Let's say you could trade Dwayne Bowe and Tamba Hali (as rookies) for a rookie John Elway or Steve Young.

You would be a fool to NOT make that trade, would you not?

I used that example because it represents our best back to back 1st round picks in recent memory.

Shit, I'd trade DJ, Tamba and Bowe. Our best three year stretch, in retrospect.

You don't win anything without a quality quarterback and if we are anywhere near striking range to get one of them, there is no price that is "too high"

Agreed

[Chiefnj2]

The trade chart is a just a basic rule of thumb. It doesn't take into account the supply and demand of any particular draft class.

[Brock]

This!

Luck and RGIII are going to make the standard draft value chart irrelevant this year for the top 5 picks.

Yep. Cleveland or whoever isn't going to give a rat's ass about what the chart says. If you want that pick, you're going to get raped hard.

[Brock]

The trade chart is a just a basic rule of thumb. It doesn't take into account the supply and demand of any particular draft class.

I guess that's really what I'm inefficiently saying.

[Lightrise]

I'd give up the firsts for 3 years and toss in Cassel, McGraw and Dorsey LOL

[BigRedChief]

http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html

By that chart, this year's 1st, next year's 1st plus a 2nd/3rd (this year or next) could get it done.

That's giving up 3 picks to get 1.. a net loss of 2 picks. that doesn't qualify as "a bunch" and those 2 picks as you say "may not turn out to be a great player".

Our 2nd round pick history outside of Brandon Flowers: Dexter McCluster, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Junior Siavii, Kris Wilson, Kawika Mitchell, Eddie Freeman, William Bartee, Mike Cloud... should I keep going?I approve this trade for Luck or RGIII. :thumb:

[Okie_Apparition]

Stanzites should be calling for Trent Richardson
Charles/Richardson/McCluster

[BossChief]

That value chart is totally outdated.

I agree it's irrelevant.

The rookie cap has already changed the way teams look at quarterbacks in the draft.

Just ask Ponder, Gabbert or Locker.

[BigRedChief]

don't tase me bro

wait, I mean don't tease me....I've already said I personally thinks its BS. Just passing it along since it seems to be making the rounds.

[DaWolf]

Yeah I'd make the trade if I as a GM am 100% sold on the QB. Use the cap room to fill holes via free agency.

Problem is that this year, lots of teams would love to get their hands on one of those two QB's. So the price will be driven up due to demand...

[Coogs]

Stanzites should be calling for Trent Richardson
Charles/Richardson/McCluster

If he falls in our lap, sure. I'm all in on that one. But what if you have to move up to get him? Are you willing to do that? 'cause it sure looks like that may be the case if you want him.

[ROYC75]

and I'd trade our whole draft for RG3...probably not enough though


Personally Andy, I would not, BTA if the OL does break down he can use his limited runs to make us yards. ( Intended to JASONSAUTO ) ;)

I can seriously live with RG3 in KC with the right price on draft pics. To trade away the whole draft our cap space & the FA market better be loaded with good talent to cover our other needs.

[Okie_Apparition]

You take him while half the upper 10 scrum for QBs

[Lzen]

Unconfirmed rumor that I've heard......... a close varaiation of this scenerio three times lately.............

Chiefs are willing to give up this years 1st rounder, this years 3rd rounder, a second rounder next year and a couple of 5th -7th rounders next year or both years.

Supposely they think RGIII will fall to #4 or #5 and that might be enough to move up. The scenerio is that its Luck, Blackman and an a OT in the first 3 picks.

I guess I could live with this scenario. Hope we have the chance to do this.

[Lzen]

Shit, I'd trade DJ, Tamba and Bowe. Our best three year stretch, in retrospect.

No freakin' way I would trade all 3 of those guys for that one spot. Remember what our team was like in 2003? Without DJ and Tamba, our defense may not be as bad as 2003, but it would be a lot worse. And I think Sunday showed the value of Bowe.

[Lzen]

http://drafttek.com/tradechart.html

By that chart, this year's 1st, next year's 1st plus a 2nd/3rd (this year or next) could get it done.

That's giving up 3 picks to get 1.. a net loss of 2 picks. that doesn't qualify as "a bunch" and those 2 picks as you say "may not turn out to be a great player".

Our 2nd round pick history outside of Brandon Flowers: Dexter McCluster, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Junior Siavii, Kris Wilson, Kawika Mitchell, Eddie Freeman, William Bartee, Mike Cloud... should I keep going?

Actually the more I think about this scenario, the more I think it would be ok. I could live with this one, as well. I'm just not convinced that's going to be nearly enough.

[the Talking Can]

I'm not saying don't trade up if its possible to grab a RGIII. I'm just saying I don't think the gamble is worth it to trade everything including the kitchen sink. What happens if RGIII or even....gasp....Luck bust?

oh noes, it's risky...!


30 years of failing and Chiefs fans still won't move for a first round QB because it is - gasp - risky...

you can have the certainty of failure...I'll take the risk required for success...

and to answer your question, you simply draft another QB and keep drafting them until you get it right...

[Lzen]

oh noes, it's risky...!


30 years of failing and Chiefs fans still won't move for a first round QB because it is - gasp - risky...

you can have the certainty of failure...I'll take the risk required for success...

and to answer your question, you simply draft another QB and keep drafting them until you get it right...

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

[Brock]

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

Did drafting any of those guys really hurt those teams long term?

[ChiefsCountry]

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

Its like asking a girl out, if she doesn't work then you go get another.

[DaKCMan AP]

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

You try again.

Notice how those teams all have tried again while we haven't done jack.

Bengals - Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton
Chargers - Drew Brees, Philip Rivers
Titans - Jake Locker
Duhs - Carson Palmer (traded for)

[HemiEd]

Did drafting any of those guys really hurt those teams long term?

The Raiders are still trying to recover from the Jamarcus Russel pick, by mortgaging their future even farther out. ROFL

[whoman69]

The Cowboys, Vikings and Saints can all tell you that you don't trade the kitchen sink for one player. Is there any doubt who won the Herschel Walker trade? And that's for an established player. You give more than 3 picks and you are giving away the farm.

I think to get the pick you have to trade with Jacksonville. St. Louis does not want to pass up on Blackmon. Minnesota has Ponder and Webb as young guys. I think Jax would be interested despite having Gabbert unless you give them a stopgap to give Gabbert time to get there. I would give up Cassel with our 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks.

[Lzen]

Did drafting any of those guys really hurt those teams long term?

I don't believe those teams had to trade their entire drafts. Apples/oranges example.

[siberian khatru]

The Cowboys, Vikings and Saints can all tell you that you don't trade the kitchen sink for one player. Is there any doubt who won the Herschel Walker trade? And that's for an established player. You give more than 3 picks and you are giving away the farm.



RBs don't have the impact franchise QBs do.

[HemiEd]

The Cowboys, Vikings and Saints can all tell you that you don't trade the kitchen sink for one player. Is there any doubt who won the Herschel Walker trade? And that's for an established player. You give more than 3 picks and you are giving away the farm.

I think to get the pick you have to trade with Jacksonville. St. Louis does not want to pass up on Blackmon. Minnesota has Ponder and Webb as young guys. I think Jax would be interested despite having Gabbert unless you give them a stopgap to give Gabbert time to get there. I would give up Cassel with our 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks..

[Chiefnj2]

I would give up Cassel with our 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks.
Wouldn't buy you a crack whore.

[DaKCMan AP]

That value chart is totally outdated.

I agree it's irrelevant.

The rookie cap has already changed the way teams look at quarterbacks in the draft.

Just ask Ponder, Gabbert or Locker.

From last year's draft:

Browns trade the No. 6 pick to the Falcons for the No. 27 pick, second-round (No. 59) and fourth-round (No. 124) picks in the 2011 draft and first- and fourth-round picks in the 2012 draft.

Value chart:
Browns - #6 = 1600
Falcons - #27 (680), #59 (310), #124 (48), 2012 1st (340), 2012 4th (24) = 1402

Redskins trade the No. 10 pick to the Jaguars for the No. 16 pick and a second-round pick (No. 49).

Value chart:
Redskins - #10 = 1300
Jaguars - #16 (1000), #49 (410) = 1410

Chiefs trade the No. 21 pick to the Browns for the No. 27 pick (through the Falcons) and a third-round pick (No. 70).

Value chart:
Chiefs - #21 = 800
Browns - #27 (680), #70 (240) = 920

[BossChief]

Some of you don't deserve to have a franchise quarterback.

[BigChiefFan]

Ask the Colts fans what a franchise QB means to an organization.

This is a no-brainer-I'd give up two firsts and two seconds, plus some other lower round picks in a heartbeat. Without a quality QB, you might as well, fold up shop.

OVER FORTY fucking YEARS and some still clamor for any position but the most important. Lord help us.

[HemiEd]

Some of you don't deserve to have a franchise quarterback.

Even when we get one, people are not going to be patient enough for him to develop.

[DeezNutz]

With respect to the QB position, this might be the most united that I've ever seen this board.

[BossChief]

From last year's draft:

Browns trade the No. 6 pick to the Falcons for the No. 27 pick, second-round (No. 59) and fourth-round (No. 124) picks in the 2011 draft and first- and fourth-round picks in the 2012 draft.

Value chart:
Browns - #6 = 1600
Falcons - #27 (680), #59 (310), #124 (48), 2012 1st (340), 2012 4th (24) = 1402

Redskins trade the No. 10 pick to the Jaguars for the No. 16 pick and a second-round pick (No. 49).

Value chart:

Redskins - #10 = 1300
Jaguars - #16 (1000), #49 (410) = 1410

Chiefs trade the No. 21 pick to the Browns for the No. 27 pick (through the Falcons) and a third-round pick (No. 70).

Value chart:
Chiefs - #21 = 800
Browns - #27 (680), #70 (240) = 920

The CBA wasn't finalized yet and nothing was set in stone showing how much less top ten picks get in compensation.

Now that teams have had time to think it over, I assure you that whoever trades to get Luck or RG3 will overpay by quite a bit to get the trade done.

Remember, there are gonna be multiple teams calling and it will be a bidding war for the pick.

That makes the chart only a starting point.

[Okie_Apparition]

The Chiefs at 10/11 or going to outbid Snyder/Rat at 6 using a draft chart?
seriously, you are fucking insane

[BossChief]

Even when we get one, people are not going to be patient enough for him to develop.

For some, absoltely.

Most intelligent fans would, though and there are enough of us here to push the masses in the right direction.

I'd also like to point out that some players get treated differently than others.

Three years into his career, lots of people still believed in Brodie Croyle...even though he had a fatal flaw, people were patient till it was clearly over.

Look at Dorsey and how poor he was early on, but almost nobody gave up on him prematurely.

Brandon Carr showed promise, so most stuck by his side even when he struggled.

I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made, to an extent.

If we drafted RG3 or Luck, I think the support and patience for his continued development would surprise some here.

Now, I can't really say the same for guys like Tannehill or Foles because their perceived ceilings are nowhere near as high...but even they would have longer leashes than some here think because this fanbase wants a quarterback so bad, and after years of Cassel...even a struggling rookie will seem like the oasis for a fanbase stuck in the middle of the qb desert.

[DaKCMan AP]

The CBA wasn't finalized yet and nothing was set in stone showing how much less top ten picks get in compensation.

Now that teams have had time to think it over, I assure you that whoever trades to get Luck or RG3 will overpay by quite a bit to get the trade done.

Remember, there are gonna be multiple teams calling and it will be a bidding war for the pick.

That makes the chart only a starting point.

Historically speaking, top picks that are traded get less in compensation (in value chart #'s) than lower 1st round picks.

This is actually a pretty good (and neat) write-up: http://emergentmath.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/do-nfl-teams-actually-use-that-draft-pick-chart-when-trading-draft-picks/

[Chiefnj2]

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

KC has how many playoff victories since those guys were drafted and failed?

[scho63]

The Chiefs at 10/11 or going to outbid Snyder/Rat at 6 using a draft chart?
seriously, you are ****ing insane

:thumb:

Not going to happen-some of these people on the board are just driving themselves into a tizzy......

[scho63]

Jonathan Martin of Stanford is a guy Pioli will probably look at

[Okie_Apparition]

Snyder is getting his kids appraised & we already know the Rat loves to wheel & deal

[the Talking Can]

If you have read my other posts, you'd know that I have no problem with trading up. But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

wasting the future is all we've done for decades...


seriously, you make it sound like we can risk wasting the present on Grbac, Huard, Cassel, Orton, Bono...it makes no freakin sense..

when you're a loser, you have nothing to lose...and the Chiefs are losers

[BossChief]

That's because of the contracts and it's not really true in regards to quarterbacks at the top. Except for Sanchez and that was the weakest draft in history.

Don't forget this...

Sam Bradford signed a 6 year 78 million dollar contract and the next year (with the new CBA) Cam Newton signed for something around 4 years 22 million.

That means the value in draft pick compensation will be much higher...especially in a year like this one when the supply isn't really good and the demand is higher than ever.

[BossChief]

"if we make a trade like that and it doesn't work out, we might be fucked for 5 years"

This is Coming from fans of a team that has made the playoffs once in the last 5 years and got destroyed in that one appearance.

JFC

[Simplicity]

No way does Bowe and our 1st get it done. It will take more than that to trade with STL.

Wait now think about it though... If this stupidity ever happened and we did present this trade to the Rams. The Rams could be interested. I'm sure Rams are sold on Bradford and whoever the GM and HC will be will be SOLD. SO they are looking for targets for Bradford to throw to. Blackmon, Jeffery, Boyles, McNutt, Michael Floyd. Oh and if they get Bowe in this deal they can pick one of those few players I just mentioned. They would have Bowe and an outstanding rookie. And if they sign Brandon back. The Rams now have a outstanding WR core.

[Baby Lee]

You draft another QB in 3-4 years?

You try again in 3 or 4 years.

and to answer your question, you simply draft another QB and keep drafting them until you get it right...

You try again.

One quick question. Who is this 'you' everyone keeps referring to?

According to Reerun, this is how you run your franchise. But you ALSO run your franchise on the assumption that if it even LOOKS like you might have whiffed on your franchise QB, which will be apparent to all by year two, the coaching staff AND front office has to go.

[DeezNutz]

Despite all of Pioli's flaws, which are many and significant, I'd damn near want to give him a Carl Peterson tenure if he'd show a determined effort to get a franchise QB.

Whiff on a QB in the first round and get fired? Nope. Not unless he would go off-the-reservation stupid with the selection by taking a 5/6-round prospect in the first.

[the Talking Can]

One quick question. Who is this 'you' everyone keeps referring to?

According to Reerun, this is how you run your franchise. But you ALSO run your franchise on the assumption that if it even LOOKS like you might have whiffed on your franchise QB, which will be apparent to all by year two, the coaching staff AND front office has to go.

you ask reerun, i guess, as I have no idea what you're talking about....

[HemiEd]

For some, absoltely.

Most intelligent fans would, though and there are enough of us here to push the masses in the right direction.

I'd also like to point out that some players get treated differently than others.

Three years into his career, lots of people still believed in Brodie Croyle...even though he had a fatal flaw, people were patient till it was clearly over.

Look at Dorsey and how poor he was early on, but almost nobody gave up on him prematurely.

Brandon Carr showed promise, so most stuck by his side even when he struggled.

I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made, to an extent.

If we drafted RG3 or Luck, I think the support and patience for his continued development would surprise some here.

Now, I can't really say the same for guys like Tannehill or Foles because their perceived ceilings are nowhere near as high...but even they would have longer leashes than some here think because this fanbase wants a quarterback so bad, and after years of Cassel...even a struggling rookie will seem like the oasis for a fanbase stuck in the middle of the qb desert.

Good post, and I agree with most of it. I am still on the Dorsey bandwagon, and was pissed when they gave up on Brodie. He was not given a fair shot at the right time IMO.

The more I read about Tannehill, and watched him, that might be a good pick.

[Baby Lee]

you ask reerun, i guess, as I have no idea what you're talking about....

He's been incessantly beating the same drum you guys are, then turned around yesterday and applauded the Rams gutting the administration for 'whiffing' on clear failure Bradshaw.

If you guys are OK with giving coaches and GMs latitude for whiffing on FQBs, I can respect that as at least logically consistent.

I take a back seat to no one in wanting Cassel gone, but I've still not teetered completely over to 'best QB in the draft, no matter how relative 'best' is year to year or how much the cost to the balance of the team.'

[whoman69]

The way many of you are talking we give up 2-3 years of the draft for one guy. Best case scenario is our QB doesn't get any help for the next 3-4 years. Worst case scenario is he's a bust and we've just thrown away 3 years. You guys don't like 8-8 seasons, look forward to 4-12 seasons with no way to get out of the hole. The team that gets all the picks usually wins those scenarios.

[Okie_Apparition]

The goalposts are moving & that is progress
really

[BossChief]

The way many of you are talking we give up 2-3 years of the draft for one guy. Best case scenario is our QB doesn't get any help for the next 3-4 years. Worst case scenario is he's a bust and we've just thrown away 3 years. You guys don't like 8-8 seasons, look forward to 4-12 seasons with no way to get out of the hole. The team that gets all the picks usually wins those scenarios.

What "help" would a drafted quarterback need that couldn't be attained with 20+ million to spend on free agents?

He walks in with three really good receivers, a good tight end and one of the best running backs in the game...to go along with a defense that is turning the corner from good to great.

Take a step back and look at the big picture for a second...

We have been in the "worst case scenario" for years.

Let me clarify:

Best case scenario is you have a franchise quarterback that gets you to the playoffs every year for a decade and gets you to multiple superbowls.

Worst case scenario is you NEVER have a franchise quarterback and truly have a horrible chance at winning a superbowl.

Guess which one of those best fits our situation...

[O.city]

The arguement that we won't have draft picks for the next couple years is bullshit. If Luck turns out to be an elite franchise qb it won't matter.


Who have the Pats taken in the first rounds the last 3 years? Any game changers?

[Brock]

One quick question. Who is this 'you' everyone keeps referring to?

According to Reerun

You took a wrong turn there.

[BossChief]

The worst year with a franchise quarterback is the equivalent to the best years we have had without one.

Anyone left that thinks we don't need to make a move for a quarterback should really think about that.

The worst years for guys like Peyton or Brady...or Elway or Young of years past are when they get knocked out of the first round in the playoffs.

That's what some here consider a "good year" because that's all we have achieved the last 30 years.

[Rams Fan]

Wait now think about it though... If this stupidity ever happened and we did present this trade to the Rams. The Rams could be interested. I'm sure Rams are sold on Bradford and whoever the GM and HC will be will be SOLD. SO they are looking for targets for Bradford to throw to. Blackmon, Jeffery, Boyles, McNutt, Michael Floyd. Oh and if they get Bowe in this deal they can pick one of those few players I just mentioned. They would have Bowe and an outstanding rookie. And if they sign Brandon back. The Rams now have a outstanding WR core.

For. The. Last. Time.

Bowe+1st Round pick DOES NOT GET 2ND OVERALL PICK.

[HemiEd]

You try again in 3 or 4 years.

Let's say you could trade Dwayne Bowe and Tamba Hali (as rookies) for a rookie John Elway or Steve Young.

You would be a fool to NOT make that trade, would you not?

I used that example because it represents our best back to back 1st round picks in recent memory.

Shit, I'd trade DJ, Tamba and Bowe. Our best three year stretch, in retrospect.

You don't win anything without a quality quarterback and if we are anywhere near striking range to get one of them, there is no price that is "too high"

Yep, and it is hard to think about getting rid of any of those players now, let alone all three. To think this team could have had Aaron Rodgers, instead of DJ at the time should explain it all.

[Frosty]

But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk. What if the guy turns out to be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russel, or Todd Marinovich? Then you've wasted your future.

The Saints traded a draft and a half for Williams, who was a bust for them, and still ended up winning a Super Bowl in less than ten year afterward. I think their recovery would have been even faster were it not for Jim Haslett and Katrina.

[BossChief]

Can one of the lurkers that's reading this, and disagrees with the popular opinion that we should put together a big deal to move up with intent of drafting a quarterback, PLEASE chime in with your opinion.

Even if I disagree with it, I will pos rep your post because I would like for someone to make a somewhat legit argument but feel you may be a little intimidated by the overwhelming majority in this case.

Please post.

Thanks

[DeezNutz]

For. The. Last. Time.

Bowe+1st Round pick DOES NOT GET 2ND OVERALL PICK.

Probably not, but the Rams would be stupid not to think very, very hard about the deal.

From the Chiefs' perspective, I would have to pause for quite a while to pull the trigger on trading Bowe.

[ChiefsCountry]

Can one of the lurkers that's reading this, and disagrees with the popular opinion that we should put together a big deal to move up with intent of drafting a quarterback, PLEASE chime in with your opinion.

Even if I disagree with it, I will pos rep your post because I would like for someone to make a somewhat legit argument but feel you may be a little intimidated by the overwhelming majority in this case.

Please post.

Thanks

I'm not trading picks for Tommie Frazier. :p

[Rams Fan]

But I don't believe trading the whole draft is worth the risk.

Are the Saints screwed 13 years later after the Williams trade?

[Rams Fan]

Probably not, but the Rams would be stupid not to think very, very hard about the deal.

From the Chiefs' perspective, I would have to pause for quite a while to pull the trigger on trading Bowe.

Why would you trade for a 6th year WR who wants $ when you can draft a guy like Blackmon?

Anyways, if they did trade with the Chiefs, Kalil and Blackmon likely won't make it out of the top 10.

[ChiefsCountry]

The Redskins with the bounty of draft picks screwed themselves more than the Saints. If you remember the Saints went out in 2000 and made alot of good free agent moves.

[Rams Fan]

The Redskins with the bounty of draft picks screwed themselves more than the Saints. If you remember the Saints went out in 2000 and made alot of good free agent moves.

And then hired Jim Haslett which eventually screwed them, but they won a playoff game a year after the trade.

But then Breesus came and all was well.

[DeezNutz]

Why would you trade for a 6th year WR who wants $ when you can draft a guy like Blackmon?

Anyways, if they did trade with the Chiefs, Kalil and Blackmon likely won't make it out of the top 10.

Because Bowe > Blackmon + you have a first rounder.

This would actually be an outstanding deal for the Rams. Outfuckingstanding, and I'm shocked that Rams fans wouldn't be salivating at the thought of it; it's Chiefs fans who should have reservations.

[Rams Fan]

Because Bowe > Blackmon + you have a first rounder.

This would actually be an outstanding deal for the Rams. Out****ingstanding, and I'm shocked that Rams fans wouldn't be salivating at the thought of it; it's Chiefs fans who should have reservations.

I don't speak for the majority of Rams fans, but let me it put this way.

The Rams will have about $30 million in cap open the 2012-2013 season. Kroenke is one of the wealthiest owners in the league.

If they can get Blackmon(whether it be trading down or at 2), weather the storm for a year, they can be a major player in free agency.

[seaofred]

I wouldn't trade Bowe, we saw what our offense looked like Sunday in the second half without him.

Also, I wouldn't trade up to get RGIII. We stay at 11 or 12 keep all our players and draft picks and take the BPA. Next years draft has more high end QB's.

[DeezNutz]

And? They'd still have the ability to spend a shit ton in FA, but they'd have more talent on the roster with Bowe and a first rounder. Maybe they could use the pick to select another OT who sucks shit?

[the Talking Can]

Probably not, but the Rams would be stupid not to think very, very hard about the deal.

From the Chiefs' perspective, I would have to pause for quite a while to pull the trigger on trading Bowe.

Bowe and a 1st for RG3?


I make that trade faster than the speed of light

[BossChief]

Probably not, but the Rams would be stupid not to think very, very hard about the deal.

From the Chiefs' perspective, I would have to pause for quite a while to pull the trigger on trading Bowe.

I wouldn't think twice about trading Bowe, but ONLY in a scenario where we get a quarterback.

The value a franchise quarterback would have to THIS TEAM is far greater than a pro bowl receiver and a 11th overall pick.

If we offered that deal and they said something like "we want another player...how about Dorsey" and that's what it would take to land the pick...Breasting and Bailey just became starters and WE FINALLY GOT OUR GUY!!!!!!!

Done.

[Rams Fan]

And? They'd still have the ability to spend a shit ton in FA, but they'd have more talent on the roster with Bowe and a first rounder.

How much will Bowe ask for?

Maybe they could use the pick to select another OT who sucks shit?

Damn it. Saffold isn't too bad.

Also, let this be a warning for everyone.

Just because you draft a QB 1st overall, draft a guy who should be your LT the year before at 2 and another tackle in he 2nd round, DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL BE A GOOD TEAM.

[DeezNutz]

Bowe and a 1st for RG3?


I make that trade faster than the speed of light

I would make the trade, but somewhat begrudgingly. I would just hate like hell to trade one of the best young WR in the league, despite how he's viewed by some fans on this forum.

[the Talking Can]

a caller on 810 just asked if the Chiefs would draft a QB for 'Cassel to mentor'...

:doh!:

LMAO

[the Talking Can]

I would make the trade, but somewhat begrudgingly. I would just hate like hell to trade one of the best young WR in the league, despite how he's viewed by some fans on this forum.

WRs are replaceable...

I'd offer Pioli my starfish if he made that trade

[O.city]

Wrs are replacable but pro bowl wrs are hard to find.

[DeezNutz]

810 perpetuating the myth that Cassel "regressed."

[ChiefsCountry]

Laz says that Bowe is worth 2nd overall pick all by himself.

[O.city]

I don't know what perpetuating means?

[the Talking Can]

Wrs are replacable but pro bowl wrs are hard to find.

good QBs make good WRs better than they are...you don't need Megatron to win a title...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Given how this team is structured, you could hand the team your first round draft pick, our roster and say "pick two", and it would still be a preposterously imbalanced trade for us if the QB hit.

[Rams Fan]

good QBs make good WRs better than they are...you don't need Megatron to win a title...

Name one team without an All Pro WR in the POs.

I can only think of the Patriots, and maybe the 49ers.

[HemiEd]

a caller on 810 just asked if the Chiefs would draft a QB for 'Cassel to mentor'...

:doh!:

LMAO

OMFG, no wonder we are doomed. I bet he has already paid for his 2012 season tickets as well.

[BossChief]

Wrs are replacable but pro bowl wrs are hard to find.

So are quarterbacks like RG3 or Luck.

[DeezNutz]

Name one team without an All Pro WR in the POs.

I can only think of the Patriots, and maybe the 49ers.

Colston makes Brees what he is. And what is Rodgers without Jordy Nelson?

[Chiefnj2]

Name one team without an All Pro WR in the POs.

I can only think of the Patriots, and maybe the 49ers.

Denver and Baltimore.

[the Talking Can]

Name one team without an All Pro WR in the POs.

I can only think of the Patriots, and maybe the 49ers.

QBs are more important than WRs

QBs make good WRs look great...having a true stud like Fitzgerald or Megatron is nice, but a luxury...Pats, Saints, Packers, Steelers....do they really have Fitzgerald level WRs?

Bowe is not irreplaceable, and I'd trade him in a heart beat for Luck or RG3

[Rams Fan]

Denver and Baltimore.

Boldin in Baltimore.

I forgot Denver was in the POs. But yeah, they qualify.

[Danman]

Cassel may be a great QB coach

[Bump]

keeping Bowe and getting a franchise QB, whether it's Flynn or a draft pick is PARAMOUNT

[the Talking Can]

Boldin in Baltimore.

I forgot Denver was in the POs. But yeah, they qualify.

Boldin is nothing special

[DeezNutz]

I'd love to sign Flynn and draft a QB in the first. That would be my ideal situation.

[Rams Fan]

Boldin is nothing special

I'd take him over 90% of the WRs in the league.

[BossChief]

Given how this team is structured, you could hand the team your first round draft pick, our roster and say "pick two", and it would still be a preposterously imbalanced trade for us if the QB hit.

Yup. Totally agree.

I even said that exact thing earlier in this thread.

[the Talking Can]

I'd take him over 90% of the WRs in the league.

so what?

[Bump]

I'd love to sign Flynn and draft a QB in the first. That would be my ideal situation.

Flynn is gonna get a big payday, it's Flynn or trade up or maybe, maybe, but I don't like it that much, draft best QB available in the 2nd round.

[DeezNutz]

Flynn is gonna get a big payday, it's Flynn or trade up or maybe, maybe, but I don't like it that much, draft best QB available in the 2nd round.

No chance he gets too big of a payday. Dude has started two games and has less than 150 passing attempts in four years.

[Rausch]

keeping Bowe and getting a franchise QB, whether it's Flynn or a draft pick is PARAMOUNT

I have no problem trusting Pioli to pick whomever he likes best but we MUST make a move to land a legit QBOTF this offseason...

[suds79]

No chance he gets too big of a payday. Dude has started two games and has less than 150 passing attempts in four years.

Exactly why we should stay away.

But no. Somebody will over pay because it's a QB starved league.

[the Talking Can]

the packers take a risk franchising Flynn...if no one wants him they owe a little used backup a shit load, like 14 mill per an article I read

it would actually put negotiating leverage in the league's hands, as teams could wait it out and see if GB flinches on the price....tough call

[DeezNutz]

The fact that Pioli picked Cassel should mean that he gets zero trust.

[BigRedChief]

Given how this team is structured, you could hand the team your first round draft pick, our roster and say "pick two", and it would still be a preposterously imbalanced trade for us if the QB hit.The key word here is....IF

[DeezNutz]

If they franchise Flynn, it would be a direct imitation of how the Hoodie handled Cassel, in which case a team would be unbelievably stupid to acquire the player.

[O.city]

If they franchise Flynn, they can't franchise Finley.

If they don't sign him, we have our TE.

[BossChief]

I actually like Flynn and have for some time.

Muir and Haley are gone. So is their offense.

Here is the ONLY situation where I would support SIGNING Flynn (note: I didn't say trade for him)

Tom Clements is named offensive coordinator and they come as a package deal with Romeo taking over as HC.

Whoever gets that combination (if both will shake loose) should have a pretty good offense if some other things fall into place for them.

If we do that and use our picks and money wisely, we could be a contender if Flynn worked out.

[whoman69]

What "help" would a drafted quarterback need that couldn't be attained with 20+ million to spend on free agents?

He walks in with three really good receivers, a good tight end and one of the best running backs in the game...to go along with a defense that is turning the corner from good to great.

Take a step back and look at the big picture for a second...

We have been in the "worst case scenario" for years.

Let me clarify:

Best case scenario is you have a franchise quarterback that gets you to the playoffs every year for a decade and gets you to multiple superbowls.

Worst case scenario is you NEVER have a franchise quarterback and truly have a horrible chance at winning a superbowl.

Guess which one of those best fits our situation...

You really think this team is going to spend $20 million on free agents? Clark had an uncapped year last year and was $40 million under what the cap would have been.

Two out of three of your weapons you site were injured this year. We won't have the draft picks to replace them or get depth at those positions.

You're over-emphasizing your worst case scenario. We'll get a team with the talent of Manningless Colts if the plan fails and we'll have given all the picks to some other team.

I agree you have to try to move up to grab a QB this year, but giving away the farm is not the way to do it.

[chiefzilla1501]

I actually like Flynn and have for some time.

Muir and Haley are gone. So is their offense.

Here is the ONLY situation where I would support SIGNING Flynn (note: I didn't say trade for him)

Tom Clements is named offensive coordinator and they come as a package deal with Romeo taking over as HC.

Whoever gets that combination (if both will shake loose) should have a pretty good offense if some other things fall into place for them.

If we do that and use our picks and money wisely, we could be a contender if Flynn worked out.

I still think the guy plays way too much shotgun for my taste. I know he had a huge game. But like cassels success in ne, it feels like a gimmick. A lot of very easy dump offs, tremendous receivers to throw to, lousy defense. It might've our best option, but I think there's a huge chance he's going to be grossly overpaid.

[BossChief]

You have to be willing to pay market value to trade up.

Market value is established by the highest bidder in situations like this.

I don't think there is a possibility of Indy coming off the top pick. I doubt they even listen to offers.

That means there is a rare situation at hand where the team picking second will field offers for the pick with the intent to trade it to the highest bidder and with only one elite prospect left and at least ten teams in need of a franchise quarterback, you have to be willing to outbid the field for the pick if you want it.

I think the minimum that pick goes for is a high first and second this year and a first next year.

More realistically, there may have to be a 3rd or two involved to get the deal done.

[chiefzilla1501]

Yup.

Let me also throw out there that Cleveland seems to be in love with rgIII. If they aggressively try to trade up, kc will have a really tough time getting him.

You have to be willing to pay market value to trade up.

Market value is established by the highest bidder in situations like this.

I don't think there is a possibility of Indy coming off the top pick. I doubt they even listen to offers.

That means there is a rare situation at hand where the team picking second will field offers for the pick with the intent to trade it to the highest bidder and with only one elite prospect left and at least ten teams in need of a franchise quarterback, you have to be willing to outbid the field for the pick if you want it.

I think the minimum that pick goes for is a high first and second this year and a first next year.

More realistically, there may have to be a 3rd or two involved to get the deal done.

[RealSNR]

I'd trade a 2nd rounder and Pioli's bubble gum collection for the Rams pick so we can take RGIII!

Think that will be enough?

[BigChiefFan]

Two first and two seconds isn't squat for a franchise QB, because one of the picks, you actually get a player. Trade Bowe, our first rounder this year and next to the Colts and be done with it.

[whoman69]

Two first and two seconds isn't squat for a franchise QB, because one of the picks, you actually get a player. Trade Bowe, our first rounder this year and next to the Colts and be done with it.

Yes, because our offense looked so good without Bowe, he must be expendable.

[BigChiefFan]

Yes, because our offense looked so good without Bowe, he must be expendable.No, I actually want to keep Bowe, but to get something, you usually have to give something in exchange.

The Colts are in win-now mode for the next 4-5 years, if they stick with Manning. Getting a stud in Bowe only helps their offense and still gives them an additional top pick this year and next. Win-win for both teams.

[Okie_Apparition]

Yup.

Let me also throw out there that Cleveland seems to be in love with rgIII. If they aggressively try to trade up, kc will have a really tough time getting him.

Shurmur won’t say if McCoy, Hillis have a future in Cleveland

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 3, 2012, 5:36 PM EST

Browns coach Pat Shurmur shared some thoughts today on where the franchise is heading in 2012, but he declined to commit to either quarterback Colt McCoy or running back Peyton Hillis as part of the team next season.

Shurmur did say that he has seen improvement in McCoy.

“The game starts in the huddle with the play-call, being able to direct things, get guys lined up,” Shurmur said. “I saw him become more efficient on some of the basic progressions. I saw him make some better plays outside the pocket later in the year better than he did earlier in the year. Leadership, being able to get guys lined up properly.”

But no matter how much improvement McCoy makes on play calling, directing the offense and going through progressions, the fundamental question remains whether he passes the ball well enough to succeed as an NFL quarterback. Shurmur declining to commit to McCoy suggests that the coach is yet to be convinced that McCoy is an NFL-quality passer.

As for Hillis, he seemed headed out of town in the middle of the season, but Shurmur said he was impressed with the way Hillis continued to work hard and contribute late in the year.

“Peyton and I had a great conversation yesterday,” Shurmur said. “I’ll tell you what, all-star player who was dealing with injury early in the middle part of the year and then came back, and gosh, I really like what he did at the end of the season. But that’s one of those questions I really can’t answer at this point.”

Shurmur also wouldn’t talk about anyone the Browns might take in the NFL draft. With the fourth overall pick, the Browns may have an opportunity to draft Baylor’s Robert Griffin III, whom Shurmur has previously gushed about as having the talent to do more than just get guys lined up properly.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Here's how I feel:

Would you trade Jackson, Berry, and Baldwin for Matt Stafford?
How about BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, and Brian Bulaga for RG III?
Markice Pouncey, Ziggy Hood, Rashard Mendenhall, and Cameron Heyward for Luck?


Take Green Bay and Pittsburgh, the two best teams at drafting. All of those guys are quality players, and some of them are borderline elite players. None of them are worth the cumulative effect that a QB is.

The game just isn't the same as it used be, and even then it was still QB-dominated.

Adapt or perish.

[tredadda]

Never thought of that fat Elvis . Well if I'm the chiefs I do it in a heart beat. Yes the O looked horrible without him but the O hasn't been lights out with him either this year.

Remember moeaki and charles come back Baldwin. Has a full training camp with a potential franchise QB throwing them the ball? This O would be scary again. I'd miss Bowe but for the chance at a super star QB isn't it worth it?

Imagine how much scarier with all that AND Bowe. Seriously Bowe is proven. If you want to trade up then you use draft picks as those are nothing but potential, but none of those "potential" picks are guaranteed to be good.

[DTLB58]

Which one and what would you give up?

Me I'd try to get the rams pick

I'd trade Bowe, Dorsey, cassel, our first next and second this year

For Lloyd and first rounder

Ya gotta remember, you have to find someone that wants these guys you want to trade to them. Why on earth would anybody want Cassel???????

And yes, If you don't have a QB in today's NFL you might as well just take your ball and go home. Game over.

Point in case, If the Falcons can trade all those picks last year to move up as far as they did to get a WR then why the heck shouldn't a team think it's worth it to trade up and get their next QBOTF?

[chiefzilla1501]

Here's how I feel:

Would you trade Jackson, Berry, and Baldwin for Matt Stafford?
How about BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, and Brian Bulaga for RG III?
Markice Pouncey, Ziggy Hood, Rashard Mendenhall, and Cameron Heyward for Luck?


Take Green Bay and Pittsburgh, the two best teams at drafting. All of those guys are quality players, and some of them are borderline elite players. None of them are worth the cumulative effect that a QB is.

The game just isn't the same as it used be, and even then it was still QB-dominated.

Adapt or perish.

It's pretty simple. If the Rams trade down with Cleveland, they can still get Blackmon and Trent Richardson AND a whole shitload of draft picks.

If the Rams trade down with the Chiefs, they lose out on the blue chip draft picks to #11 or #12, they may very well end up with a late first rounder in 2012 if the Chiefs have a good season, etc....

If the Browns want RGIII, it's going to be immensely difficult for the Chiefs to pluck that pick from the Rams. No way would the Rams do it unless they were guaranteed our first this year and first round picks the next 2 years.

[tredadda]

You really think this team is going to spend $20 million on free agents? Clark had an uncapped year last year and was $40 million under what the cap would have been.

Two out of three of your weapons you site were injured this year. We won't have the draft picks to replace them or get depth at those positions.

You're over-emphasizing your worst case scenario. We'll get a team with the talent of Manningless Colts if the plan fails and we'll have given all the picks to some other team.

I agree you have to try to move up to grab a QB this year, but giving away the farm is not the way to do it.

I think you are over emphasizing the worst case scenario. Giving up a draft's worth of picks will not suddenly make this talented team talent-less. Most picks from round 4 down don't succeed. Granted some do, but the lions share do not. We could give up an entire draft to address the most important position on the field and clearly our biggest weakness. I would rather do that if someone would take it than giving up firsts in 3 or so years. But with the importance of QB I would rather go elite than average just for the sake of saving picks. If the NFL has shown anything it is the teams that are constantly successful are that way because they have elite QBs.

[DTLB58]

Imagine how much scarier with all that AND Bowe. Seriously Bowe is proven. If you want to trade up then you use draft picks as those are nothing but potential, but none of those "potential" picks are guaranteed to be good.

Bowe has proven to be inconsistent. If he catches the TD in the Raider game this team is going to the playoffs. He falls asleep and still has to be motivated to much. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants a loot, Pioli lets him walk.

[chiefzilla1501]

Shurmur won’t say if McCoy, Hillis have a future in Cleveland

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 3, 2012, 5:36 PM EST

Browns coach Pat Shurmur shared some thoughts today on where the franchise is heading in 2012, but he declined to commit to either quarterback Colt McCoy or running back Peyton Hillis as part of the team next season.

Shurmur did say that he has seen improvement in McCoy.

“The game starts in the huddle with the play-call, being able to direct things, get guys lined up,” Shurmur said. “I saw him become more efficient on some of the basic progressions. I saw him make some better plays outside the pocket later in the year better than he did earlier in the year. Leadership, being able to get guys lined up properly.”

But no matter how much improvement McCoy makes on play calling, directing the offense and going through progressions, the fundamental question remains whether he passes the ball well enough to succeed as an NFL quarterback. Shurmur declining to commit to McCoy suggests that the coach is yet to be convinced that McCoy is an NFL-quality passer.

As for Hillis, he seemed headed out of town in the middle of the season, but Shurmur said he was impressed with the way Hillis continued to work hard and contribute late in the year.

“Peyton and I had a great conversation yesterday,” Shurmur said. “I’ll tell you what, all-star player who was dealing with injury early in the middle part of the year and then came back, and gosh, I really like what he did at the end of the season. But that’s one of those questions I really can’t answer at this point.”

Shurmur also wouldn’t talk about anyone the Browns might take in the NFL draft. With the fourth overall pick, the Browns may have an opportunity to draft Baylor’s Robert Griffin III, whom Shurmur has previously gushed about as having the talent to do more than just get guys lined up properly.

Coaches/GMs are always ambiguous leading up to the draft. We all know this.

Here's what I do know. Shurmur is a QB coach by trade. Mike Holmgren is a QB guru and has a remarkable eye for QB talent. I can promise you that they're not dumb enough to see something in McCoy, nor would they be dumb enough to realize that they are in the driver's seat for RGIII.

I would be absolutely stunned if we outbid Cleveland for RGIII.

[Coogs]

It's pretty simple. If the Rams trade down with Cleveland, they can still get Blackmon and Trent Richardson

How?

[Reerun_KC]

I would just draft Tannehill, Foles, Moore or Cousins and go from there...

[tredadda]

Ya gotta remember, you have to find someone that wants these guys you want to trade to them. Why on earth would anybody want Cassel???????

And yes, If you don't have a QB in today's NFL you might as well just take your ball and go home. Game over.

Point in case, If the Falcons can trade all those picks last year to move up as far as they did to get a WR then why the heck shouldn't a team think it's worth it to trade up and get their next QBOTF?

I agree with you and I see what you are getting at, but WR and elite franchise QB are totally different. Franchise QBs are far more valuable to a team so they cost a lot more in regards to picks. Also teams are less willing to trade that potential than they are for a WR.

[chiefzilla1501]

How?

The Browns only have to move up to spots to get RGIII. The Rams basically can trade down with Cleveland, get extra draft picks, and still pick up the draft pick they want.

The Rams would take RGIII. The Bucs would probably take a CB. That means the Rams can pretty much take Kalil, Richardson, or Blackmon. All 3 are blue chip picks. None of those 3 will be available by #11.

[chiefzilla1501]

I would just draft Tannehill, Foles, Moore or Cousins and go from there...

I still believe Tannehill is out of the picture. I think some desperate team is going to reach for him and sink way too high of a draft pick for a marginal prospect.

I really don't think the gap between Tannehill and Foles / Cousins is that huge.

It's not the idea scenario. But at least we'd have 2 young QBs legitimately fighting to be a QBOTF.

[Coogs]

The Browns only have to move up to spots to get RGIII. The Rams basically can trade down with Cleveland, get extra draft picks, and still pick up the draft pick they want.

The Rams would take RGIII. The Bucs would probably take a CB. That means the Rams can pretty much take Kalil, Richardson, or Blackmon. All 3 are blue chip picks. None of those 3 will be available by #11.

OK, I thought you said they could take Blackmon and Richardson.

[BossChief]

Stanzi > every quarterback in this class past the first 2

[Reerun_KC]

Stanzi > every quarterback in this class past the first 2

Okay Homer...

[BossChief]

Call it whatever you want, it's true.

[Reerun_KC]

Call it whatever you want, it's true.
http://therecoveringpolitician.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/homer-simpson.gif

[chiefzilla1501]

Stanzi > every quarterback in this class past the first 2

Then bring a second one in and let them compete.

[Okie_Apparition]

You don't have to give up your Luck or RGIII hope
but an option 2 or maybe even 3 would be a good idea

[milkman]

Fat chance. Seriously no way. Colts are taking that pick. It's not up for trade.

Wish it was. But I just can't see that.


Edit: just found this.. http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-draft/2012/1/3/2679036/2012-nfl-draft-andrew-luck-says-hell-play-wherever-hes-picked

Over the last couple of months, Bill Polian had been intimating that the Colts would draft Luck.

In the last month or so, Jim Irsay has been telling everyone that he's going to pay Manning that 28 mil bonus if Manning's health checks out.

Monday, Bill and Chris Polian are relieved of their responsibilities by Irsay, who sites having everyone on the same page as the reason.

To me, this suggests pretty strongly that the first pick in the draft is in play.

Irsay wants to build a team around Manning that can compete for the SB in the 4 years or so that Manning has left.

I'd trade players to get that pick.

If I had to include Eric Berry and Glen Dorsey in the package to get him, I'd do it.

And Berry easily became my favorite player on this team last year.

Heck yeah I'd love luck but colts are drafting him. Look what happened yesterday manning is talking to polian when the discussion is halted and polian has to leave where he is fired by irsay. Sure doesnt sound like peyton is in the loop anymore to me. The colts are moving on with luck they aren't trading that pick.

As I stated above, I think this move puts Luck into play.

No. I'd stand pat and draft Tannehill.
This team still has other holes.

If I can't move up for Luck, or RGIII, then I move down to pick Tannehill.

Yeah, I think it is. The market hasn't been set yet with the new salary restrictions on rookies.

I think the draft value chart becomes more relevant with rookie scale in place, because the chart was established before the rookie salaries got to be so ridiculous.

Supply and demand, however, affects the market.

I would make the trade, but somewhat begrudgingly. I would just hate like hell to trade one of the best young WR in the league, despite how he's viewed by some fans on this forum.

I agree with this.

You have to be willing to pay market value to trade up.

Market value is established by the highest bidder in situations like this.

I don't think there is a possibility of Indy coming off the top pick. I doubt they even listen to offers.

That means there is a rare situation at hand where the team picking second will field offers for the pick with the intent to trade it to the highest bidder and with only one elite prospect left and at least ten teams in need of a franchise quarterback, you have to be willing to outbid the field for the pick if you want it.

I think the minimum that pick goes for is a high first and second this year and a first next year.

More realistically, there may have to be a 3rd or two involved to get the deal done.

You start with market value offer, but I think it's going to take a lot more than you outline here.


No, I actually want to keep Bowe, but to get something, you usually have to give something in exchange.

The Colts are in win-now mode for the next 4-5 years, if they stick with Manning. Getting a stud in Bowe only helps their offense and still gives them an additional top pick this year and next. Win-win for both teams.

The Colts need help on defense more than they do on offense.
We have to be willing to offer up our best defenders.

[Chiefshrink]

In order to trade up, another team must want to trade down, and that isn't always the case...

Agree. BUT! This year is different with Luck and RGIII sitting at 1 and 2. There will be activity especially with the rookie cap in place.

[DaKCMan AP]

The Colts need help on defense more than they do on offense.
We have to be willing to offer up our best defenders.

I think anyone on offense or defense is expendable - except Tamba Hali. He is our entire pass rush and would be the most difficult player on the team to replace, IMO.

[Dexter Manley]

The desperation of teams without decent QBs...

wow...

Dozens of message boards have their teams already trading for Peyton Manning too...

[Sofa King]

The desperation of teams without decent QBs...

wow...

Dozens of message boards have their teams already trading for Peyton Manning too...

One of them could be right.

[BigChiefFan]

The Colts need help on defense more than they do on offense.
We have to be willing to offer up our best defenders.

Easy enough...offer up Brandon Carr and the picks.

[HemiEd]

Easy enough...offer up Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey and the picks.

fixed it

[Sofa King]

You guys should know that any trade this offseason has to include Cassel. He has real value to other teams, even if they have Franchise qb's like Bradford.

[keg in kc]

It's going to be too expensive this year, and we're too far down in the order to do it without killing ourselves. I stay put, even move down, but still look quarterback.

[HemiEd]

I really have a hard time with the thought of trading Berry, Bowe, Baldwin, DJ, Hali, Flowers, Charles, Carr and Houston.
I know, maybe that is what will be needed, but it is hard to think about losing any of those guys.
Maybe a package of the second tier like, Dorsey, Jackson, Breaston, Belcher, Albert, Lewis, and Bailey, or anyone else but the first group I mentioned?

flame away