These videos bring some FIRE!!!

[El Jefe]

These videos really get me fired up, if you don't respect what the videos encompass, please just leave it be. I'm not trying to start something that will get these things moved to the DC, so if you don't agree with them or think the videos are dumb I can respect that, but respect me and not post something nasty please.

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[El Jefe]

I really challenge you to watch both videos, even if you don't agree with the material you have to love the passion and the way everything is layed out. Two of the best videos I have watched.

[blaise]

This will end well.

[Hammock Parties]

I refuse to watch these videos. Jesus can kiss my nuts.

[El Jefe]

This will end well.

See it's stuff like this that annoys me about CP. If you don't like it, why do you have to post at all? I understand this is a CP message board and you can post to whatever you want. It's funny because my threads always get bashed, but for all of you who bash me in my threads or say little things to me, there is always 4 or 5 people who rep me because they agree.

[Molitoth]

Man discovered HOPE and developed FAITH.

Then man wrote the greatest story ever told.

[durtyrute]

I really like the second video. I haven't watched the first one yet. I've struggle with this very topic for a long time. I won't get to deep though (gotta keep it out of D.C)

[BigRichard]

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.


Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

[beach tribe]

Good stuff.

[Phobia]

I refuse to watch these videos. Jesus can kiss my nuts.

Then stay out of the thread. I think we've talked about this. I don't think you're listening.

[blaise]

See it's stuff like this that annoys me about CP. If you don't like it, why do you have to post at all? I understand this is a CP message board and you can post to whatever you want. It's funny because my threads always get bashed, but for all of you who bash me in my threads or say little things to me, there is always 4 or 5 people who rep me because they agree.

I really wouldn't call that bashing you, but if you're that thin skinned then sorry.

[Iconic]

I don't understand... Jesus and Christianity are parallel. How can he hate one but love the other. I'm not Christian so enlighten me.

[blaise]

I don't understand... Jesus and Christianity are parallel. How can he hate one but love the other. I'm not Christian so enlighten me.

He says religion, not Christianity.

[El Jefe]

I really like the second video. I haven't watched the first one yet. I've struggle with this very topic for a long time. I won't get to deep though (gotta keep it out of D.C)

The second video is much more in depth, but the first is good too.

[Iconic]

He says religion, not Christianity.

He talked about Churches and Republicans/Christianity. It can be logically assumed that's the 'religion' he's talking about. Regardless, Just for the sake of argument let's say it's just religion. Religion and Jesus are still parallel. I don't understand this at all. It's like saying I love instruments but hate music.

[El Jefe]

I really wouldn't call that bashing you, but if you're that thin skinned then sorry.

No, I didn't mean to say you were bashing me. FTR I am not very thin skinned, you should see some of the doozies I have been while here at CP LMAO

[El Jefe]

I don't understand... Jesus and Christianity are parallel. How can he hate one but love the other. I'm not Christian so enlighten me.

No he said Religion.

[El Jefe]

He talked about Churches and Republicans/Christianity. It can be logically assumed that's the 'religion' he's talking about. Regardless, Just for the sake of argument let's say it's just religion. Religion and Jesus are still parallel. I don't understand this at all. It's like saying I love instruments but hate music.

Did you watch the video? It explains exactly what you are trying to figure out. Religion in this day and age has been distorted and customized by many, thusly he doesn't like religion.

The Republican insert was a jab at the myth that every republican/conservative is obviously a Christian.

[blaise]

I don't really think he's saying anything all that new in the first video. I've been of literally dozens of churches, and really they all say basically what he's saying in a different way.
I don't get his whole 'people think Republican=Christian' thing. I've never heard a pastor say that people should vote Republican. I've only heard politics twice in sermons. Once was at the Church of the Resurrection in Overland Park when the pastor said Jesus would have supported Obama's health care plan (in his opinion). The other time was at Foundry Methodist in Houston where the pastor just said they wouldn't be doing gay marriages. And that was just because it was sort of a hot button issue at the time. He certainly didn't spew any hate for homosexuals. He basically said our stance is it should be men marrying women.
I've certainly never heard a pastor suggest a single mom is a whore. He must be going to the wrong kind of churches.
As far as his point that it's more important to live a Christian life and do kind acts for one another, than it is to show up for church on Sunday. I've literally heard that in sermon over a hundred times. They ALWAYS say that. Get in a small group. Help your neighbor in times of need. Be there for others. Talk to people. Help poor people, personally. Visit prisoners. Give your time to others. Showing up to Sunday service isn't enough. Show kindness and empathy. They say that ALL THE TIME. All the time. I've heard it more times than I can count, at many many churches.
Maybe his problem is that he's been going to the wrong church.

[blaise]

He talked about Churches and Republicans/Christianity. It can be logically assumed that's the 'religion' he's talking about. Regardless, Just for the sake of argument let's say it's just religion. Religion and Jesus are still parallel. I don't understand this at all. It's like saying I love instruments but hate music.

I believe he's using the term religion to mean a set of routines. Which is also a sermon I've heard many times. That religious formalities and routine don't equate love for Christ.
I really wouldn't say religion and Jesus are parallel.

[Baby Lee]

Only watched the first one thus far, but am taken aback by apparent contradictions.

Rails against religion for judging people, then talks about what an empty person he was when he beat his meat and macked on chicks. It's not that big of a leap to go from 'I was a bad person when I did x' to 'you are a bad person if you are still doing x too.'

Plus this whole thing about evangelicals who, within moments of engaging you start talking about how they were slaves to pounding their puds until they found Jesus is Waaaaay to Kirk Cameron gay crush on Jesus for me.

Then rails against religion for not doing enough charitable things, then concludes with the premise that it's not about anything you do here on earth, it's all about what Jesus did for you millenia ago.

[El Jefe]

I don't really think he's saying anything all that new in the first video. I've been of literally dozens of churches, and really they all say basically what he's saying in a different way.
I don't get his whole 'people think Republican=Christian' thing. I've never heard a pastor say that people should vote Republican. I've only heard politics twice in sermons. Once was at the Church of the Resurrection in Overland Park when the pastor said Jesus would have supported Obama's health care plan (in his opinion). The other time was at Foundry Methodist in Houston where the pastor just said they wouldn't be doing gay marriages. And that was just because it was sort of a hot button issue at the time. He certainly didn't spew any hate for homosexuals. He basically said our stance is it should be men marrying women.
I've certainly never heard a pastor suggest a single mom is a whore. He must be going to the wrong kind of churches.
As far as his point that it's more important to live a Christian life and do kind acts for one another, than it is to show up for church on Sunday. I've literally heard that in sermon over a hundred times. They ALWAYS say that. Get in a small group. Help your neighbor in times of need. Be there for others. Talk to people. Help poor people, personally. Visit prisoners. Give your time to others. Showing up to Sunday service isn't enough. Show kindness and empathy. They say that ALL THE TIME. All the time. I've heard it more times than I can count, at many many churches.
Maybe his problem is that he's been going to the wrong church.


Good post. Politics and the Church do not mix in my opinion, I have been to many different church sermons and I have only ever heard a pastor get into politics, and that was briefly. In our area people pair the term "Republican" with staunch, conservative, white christian (sad, but true).

I will tell you this, if you get into "strong conservative churches" you will hear some of the things the guy in the first video talked about. I have heard churches tell homosexuals that they are going to hell, I have heard a lot of things that made me Bert Stare.

[blaise]

Good post. Politics and the Church do not mix in my opinion, I have been to many different church sermons and I have only ever heard a pastor get into politics, and that was briefly. In our area people pair the term "Republican" with staunch, conservative, white christian (sad, but true).

I will tell you this, if you get into "strong conservative churches" you will hear some of the things the guy in the first video talked about. I have heard churches tell homosexuals that they are going to hell, I have heard a lot of things that made me Bert Stare.

And I'm sure that's true, but in the same way we shouldn't judge a group of men by the actions of one, we shouldn't judge religion as a whole by the actions of a church.
I move a lot. When we go to a new city we try probably 5 or 6 churches until we find one that fits.

[El Jefe]

Only watched the first one thus far, but am taken aback by apparent contradictions.

Rails against religion for judging people, then talks about what an empty person he was when he beat his meat and macked on chicks. It's not that big of a leap to go from 'I was a bad person when I did x' to 'you are a bad person if youare still doing x too.'

Then rails against religion for not doing enough charitable things, then concludes with the premise that it's not about anything you do here on earth, it's all about what Jesus did for you millenia ago.


I don't understand how you can come to any of these assumptions from watching that videos, almost seems like a grasping at straws method in my opinion. Anytime you are trying to assume or connect someone else's thoughts it usually doesn't bode well.

[Iconic]

Did you watch the video? It explains exactly what you are trying to figure out. Religion in this day and age has been distorted and customized by many, thusly he doesn't like religion.

The Republican insert was a jab at the myth that every republican/conservative is obviously a Christian.

Fair enough... He doesn't have to like religion that's fine. But it's not possible to like Jesus then either because that means you don't like what Jesus is teaching, which is essentially organized spiritual standards or 'religion'.

I understand what he is saying. But he should have altered his 'I hate religion and love Jesus' idea to I hate the human distortion in my religion but love what Jesus taught originally. That would be what he actually meant. What he SAID though, was Jesus>Religion. Which is just plain WRONG and literally ILLOGICAL.

[Baby Lee]

I don't understand how you can come to any of these assumptions from watching that videos, almost seems like a grasping at straws method in my opinion. Anytime you are trying to assume or connect someone else's thoughts it usually doesn't bode well.

They're not assumptions, they are the WORDS HE SAID.

[El Jefe]

And I'm sure that's true, but in the same way we shouldn't judge a group of men by the actions of one, we shouldn't judge religion as a whole by the actions of a church.
I move a lot. When we go to a new city we try probably 5 or 6 churches until we find one that fits.

Good point, but wouldn't you agree that many non-church going folks have a marred image of church going folks because of the actions of Westboro Baptist?

[blaise]

Good point, but wouldn't you agree that many non-church going folks have a marred image of church going folks because of the actions of Westboro Baptist?

Yes they do. But he seems to be implying that all the churches are basically like Westboro Baptist. Most are not.
It really makes me wonder if he went to any churches at all, of if he's just making it up.

[El Jefe]

Fair enough... He doesn't have to like religion that's fine. But it's not possible to like Jesus then either because that means you don't like what Jesus is teaching, which is essentially organized spiritual standards or 'religion'.

I understand what he is saying. But he should have altered his 'I hate religion and love Jesus' idea to I hate the human distortion in my religion but love what Jesus taught originally. That would be what he actually meant. What he SAID though, was Jesus>Religion. Which is just plain WRONG and literally ILLOGICAL.

The fallecy with religion is that a lot of churches or faiths have some premise or Bible basis, but the intricacies of the doctrine taught is were you find the negative issues.

Mormon's statement of doctinal belief and catholics view to the untrained eye doesn't seem that far off.

[Iconic]

I believe he's using the term religion to mean a set of routines. Which is also a sermon I've heard many times. That religious formalities and routine don't equate love for Christ.
I really wouldn't say religion and Jesus are parallel.

Religious formalities do equate love for Christ because those are initially his teachings. If you don't accept his teachings how can you accept the man himself? It's like me hating everything my dad does but loving him as a person. Nonsense.

[SLAG]

I vote to Move this To D.C Please

[blaise]

Religious formalities do equate love for Christ because those are initially his teachings. If you don't accept his teachings how can you accept the man himself? It's like my hating everything my dad does but loving him as a person. Nonsense.

There's a variety of religious formalities going at a variety of different churches, are there not?
Are you saying I'd have to accept all the religious formalities of Methodists, Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans in order to love Christ? Because that's what it seems like you're saying, and that doesn't make any sense.

[WV]

Fair enough... He doesn't have to like religion that's fine. But it's not possible to like Jesus then either because that means you don't like what Jesus is teaching, which is essentially organized spiritual standards or 'religion'.

I understand what he is saying. But he should have altered his 'I hate religion and love Jesus' idea to I hate the human distortion in my religion but love what Jesus taught originally. That would be what he actually meant. What he SAID though, was Jesus>Religion. Which is just plain WRONG and literally ILLOGICAL.

Depends on how literal you take it....I have a big problem with organized religion and I believe that's what he's speaking about and to. I don't think the Bible was meant to spawn 15 different religions and 25 different churches to teach his lessons the way that particular church/religion interprets them, it's meant to be a guide for life. Just my opinion though.

[El Jefe]

Only watched the first one thus far, but am taken aback by apparent contradictions.

Rails against religion for judging people, then talks about what an empty person he was when he beat his meat and macked on chicks. It's not that big of a leap to go from 'I was a bad person when I did x' to 'you are a bad person if you are still doing x too.'Plus this whole thing about evangelicals who, within moments of engaging you start talking about how they were slaves to pounding their puds until they found Jesus is Waaaaay to Kirk Cameron gay crush on Jesus for me.

Then rails against religion for not doing enough charitable things, then concludes with the premise that it's not about anything you do here on earth, it's all about what Jesus did for you millenia ago.

They're not assumptions, they are the WORDS HE SAID.



EH? Listen I am not trying to say I know everything, or I know what he meant with everything he said, but I do think you are being so analytical that it has distorted your perception (just my opinion).

[blaise]

I vote to Move this To D.C Please

Yeah, it has to go there. It's only about 10 minutes until it just devolves into the same old argument as always, anyway.

[El Jefe]

Religious formalities do equate love for Christ because those are initially his teachings. If you don't accept his teachings how can you accept the man himself? It's like me hating everything my dad does but loving him as a person. Nonsense.

God is Love that is true. I am not quite grasping what you are relating here though?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

respect me and not post something nasty please.



This will work great here.

Why don't you throw a steak to a hungry dog and tell him not to eat it instead.

[El Jefe]

Depends on how literal you take it....I have a big problem with organized religion and I believe that's what he's speaking about and to. I don't think the Bible was meant to spawn 15 different religions and 25 different churches to teach his lessons the way that particular church/religion interprets them, it's meant to be a guide for life. Just my opinion though.

I agree 100%, good post.

[El Jefe]

This will work great here.

Why don't you throw a steak to a hungry dog and tell him not to eat it instead.

It has remained civil thus far, I actually enjoy talking religion with others.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

It has remained civil thus far, I actually enjoy talking religion with others.

Except for Omega of course. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with the topic I'm just telling you the way things usually work and asking them not to work that way often means the results will be even worse. If I'm wrong then I'll be proud of CP.

:D

[Iconic]

There's a variety of religious formalities going at a variety of different churches, are there not?
Are you saying I'd have to accept all the religious formalities of Methodists, Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans in order to love Christ? Because that's what it seems like you're saying, and that doesn't make any sense.

If all those formalities are truly his teachings then yes. I'm not debating on what is the true religion here. I'm simply stating what he says is illogical. You cannot love Christ without religion because he initially taught a form of it. He should have worded what he said more appropriately.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Just don't get angry when it gets moved to "Washington DC and the Holy Land." Ya know...?

[Baby Lee]

EH? Listen I am not trying to say I know everything, or I know what he meant with everything he said, but I do think you are being so analytical that it has distorted your perception (just my opinion).

I'll grant that there is a degree of inference from the first bolded statement. But it's straightforward and reasonable, and further it is informed by heaps and heaps of other evangelicals who I heave personally heard start from his premise and make my inference explicit.

Kirk Cameron won't even do kissing scenes for movies with a women who isn't his wife because it interferes with his relationship with Jesus. How hard is it to recognize that such a firmly held belief that one's actions can sully a relationship between the individual and the divine can easily expand to the judgement of others that he appears to decry? What do you think the guys response would be if you said "hey, dude, I beat my meat with abandon and hook up with hotties regularly, so are me and Jesus good?" And who do you think made that single mom a single mom? Most likely someone like his former 'empty' self.

ETA: Maybe its just to me, but there's no such thing as 'too analytical' when being called/inspired to fundamentally change my lifestyle.

[El Jefe]

They're not assumptions, they are the WORDS HE SAID.

I re-watched it, his statement about building a massive church yet not feeding the poor, is based on the Bible and that in olden times it was the church who was supposed to help feed the poor.

[blaise]

Paging Dave Lane.

[Iconic]

God is Love that is true. I am not quite grasping what you are relating here though?

I'm relating what Jesus taught, Christianity, to religion. Which is what this man claims to hate. That makes his statement impossible because you'd be hating what Jesus preached - a form of religion.

[El Jefe]

If all those formalities are truly his teachings then yes. I'm not debating on what is the true religion here. I'm simply stating what he says is illogical. You cannot love Christ without religion because he initially taught a form of it. He should have worded what he said more appropriately.

Apples and Oranges here my friend, I attained none of the sentiments you did from watching the video.

[Baby Lee]

I re-watched it, his statement about building a massive church yet not feeding the poor, is based on the Bible and that in olden times it was the church who was supposed to help feed the poor.

Yes, but what effect does his stance that 'this isn't about what I do, it's about what Jesus did for me' have on that lament.

[Iconic]

Apples and Oranges here my friend, I attained none of the sentiments you did from watching the video.

Look I get the purpose of the video. I understand he doesn't like the current atmosphere of Religion because it has been distorted by man and that makes what you're following almost a man made religion in essence and he wants to go back to the original teachings or 'Jesus'. I'm just saying the statement he said was illogical. I agree with most of what he said. Just should have changed the way he said that statement is all.

[Phobia]

Paging Dave Lane.

I like Dave. I know Dave IRL. But, yeah. It's become comedic lately.

[El Jefe]

I'll grant that there is a degree of inference from the first bolded statement. But it's straightforward and reasonable, and further it is informed by heaps and heaps of other evangelicals who I heave personally heard start from his premise and make my inference explicit.

Kirk Cameron won't even do kissing scenes for movies with a women who isn't his wife because it interferes with his relationship with Jesus. How hard is it to recognize that such a firmly held belief that one's actions can sully a relationship between the individual and the divine can easily expand to the judgement of others that he appears to decry? What do you think the guys response would be if you said "hey, dude, I beat my meat with abandon and hook up with hotties regularly, so are me and Jesus good?" And who do you think made that single mom a single mom? Most likely someone like his former 'empty' self.

ETA: Maybe its just to me, but there's no such thing as 'too analytical' when being called/inspired to fundamentally change my lifestyle.


I don't know if I am reading your statements wrong, but God doesn't care what you did before you were saved. A true test of salvation is demonstrating a restraint from the sins of your past. Something we all strive for, but will forever be unable to break loose from completely.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Was I way off base with what you were stating?

[El Jefe]

Look I get the purpose of the video. I understand he doesn't like the current atmosphere of Religion because it has been distorted by man and that makes what you're following almost a man made religion in essence and he wants to go back to the original teachings or 'Jesus'. I'm just saying the statement he said was illogical. I agree with most of what he said. Just should have changed the way he said that statement is all.

I think his point is Religion as a whole carries many facades. Religion Encompasses a great deal of beliefs: Mormonism, JW's, Buddhism, Scientology, Christianity (all those who claim Christianity as well), Islam.

I believe you are trying to say Jesus started and was religion?

[El Jefe]

Yes, but what effect does his stance that 'this isn't about what I do, it's about what Jesus did for me' have on that lament.

The church should feel a need to help supply for those who reasonible cannot do so themselves (I know in this day and age that's a two edged sword).

Faith without works is dead. If a seed has been planted correctly it should bear fruit, if it doesn't then is this faith true, or is it uncared for?

[Iconic]

I think his point is Religion as a whole carries many facades. Religion Encompasses a great deal of beliefs: Mormonism, JW's, Buddhism, Scientology, Christianity (all those who claim Christianity as well), Islam.

I believe you are trying to say Jesus started and was religion?

No, Jesus started Christianity. I'm strictly talking about Christianity with what I said because he mentions Jesus and Jesus is parallel with Christianity. I believe most religions have been corrupted by humans though.

[Dave Lane]

And if its true that Jesus never existed, which is highly likely, how does this change the message of the video?

[Iconic]

And if its true that Jesus never existed, which is highly likely, how does this change the message of the video?

This man has an imaginary friend then?

[Dave Lane]

This man has an imaginary friend then?

Good point.

[Baby Lee]

I don't know if I am reading your statements wrong, but God doesn't care what you did before you were saved. A true test of salvation is demonstrating a restraint from the sins of your past. Something we all strive for, but will forever be unable to break loose from completely.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Was I way off base with what you were stating?

Here's where I come from.

The core of my faith is two pronged;
Judge not, lest ye be judged, and
Faith without works is dead faith.

Basically, don't worry about what your limited senses make of another person's relationship with the divine, and concentrate on comporting your life in the manner you best assess to maximize your own relationship with the divine.

The guy's comments swirl around those precepts, but inject caveats that obliterate them as well.
He may not like people who judge people living through the consequences of certain actions, but he does judge people who engage in those actions.
He may not like people who don't transform their faith into saintly and charitable works, but he thinks that an individuals actions on earth are irrelevant in the face of Jesus' grace.

[El Jefe]

Here's where I come from.

The core of my faith is two pronged;
Judge not, lest ye be judged, and
Faith without works is dead faith.

Basically, don't worry about what your limited senses make of another person's relationship with the divine, and concentrate on comporting your life in the manner you best assess to maximize your own relationship with the divine.

The guy's comments swirl around those precepts, but inject caveats that obliterate them as well.
He may not like people who judge people living through the consequences of certain actions, but he does judge people who engage in those actions.
He may not like people who don't transform their faith into saintly and charitable works, but he thinks that an individuals actions on earth are irrelevant in the face of Jesus' grace.

I must say it's interesting to pick your brain. However, I must say that watching the video for me doesn't elicit the same reactions as it does for you. I do see what you are saying, but I just don't see that masked into the video.

[El Jefe]

Here's where I come from.

The core of my faith is two pronged;
Judge not, lest ye be judged, and
Faith without works is dead faith.

Basically, don't worry about what your limited senses make of another person's relationship with the divine, and concentrate on comporting your life in the manner you best assess to maximize your own relationship with the divine.The guy's comments swirl around those precepts, but inject caveats that obliterate them as well.
He may not like people who judge people living through the consequences of certain actions, but he does judge people who engage in those actions.
He may not like people who don't transform their faith into saintly and charitable works, but he thinks that an individuals actions on earth are irrelevant in the face of Jesus' grace.


I do agree 100% with that statement. Only God can judge a person, so why waste time?

Matthew Chapter 7

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

[The Franchise]

Christianity is a religion.

[Jenson71]

I must say it's interesting to pick your brain. However, I must say that watching the video for me doesn't elicit the same reactions as it does for you. I do see what you are saying, but I just don't see that masked into the video.

I agree with a lot of what Baby Lee originally said in this thread about the video. Religion, the early church fathers, fundamentally shaped the way you see Jesus. You cannot get to what you think you know about Jesus without attaching yourself to the religious arguments and theories that sprang up soon after his death.