Mellinger: Romeo/Pioli Ass kissing!!!!!

[Carlota69]

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/21/3384385/how-todays-patriots-are-encouraging.html#storylink=rss

FOXBOROUGH, MASS. -- In most all the obvious ways, this place is exactly how Scott Pioli and Romeo Crennel left it. They still keep secrets here, still rely on Tom Brady here, still have three Super Bowl trophies here.

They think about Pioli and Crennel sometimes. How could they not? Those men are central figures to the Patriots’ biggest glories. The Patriots became the NFL’s preeminent power with Pioli and Crennel in key roles.

So far in Kansas City, those men have been central figures to some of the Chiefs’ rockiest times: the playoffs last season, then a year that will be most remembered for injuries, disappointment, and drama.

This is 1,500 miles from Kansas City, but feels so much further in reality. If Pioli brought The Patriot Way to Kansas City, it hasn’t shown up yet during games.

It’s a funny thing, though. The closer you look, the more hope you find.

The closer you look, the more Romeo Crennel’s promotion to head coach makes sense.

• • •

The Patriots haven’t won the Super Bowl since Crennel left. That’s easy to miss in the 24-hour hype that is the NFL and that is especially Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

When Crennel was the Patriots’ defensive coordinator for three championships from 2001-04, the common knock was that this was Belichick’s defense, not Crennel’s. On television, the announcers usually credited the head coach and rarely mentioned the assistant.

Each day of the Patriots’ success meant another day to mention that Belichick is a defensive whiz, that Bill Parcells never made a Super Bowl without Belichick as his assistant, and the whole thing made a lot more sense before the old defensive whiz oversaw a defense that’s slipped four straight seasons.

This year, the Patriots ranked 31st, and just 8 yards from last.

The Patriots have had good defenses without Crennel — the 16-0 team ranked fourth in 2007 under Don Pees — but they typically flop in the playoffs. Look at their losses.

They gave up 27 to Jake Plummer’s Broncos, 38 to the Colts (that was at Indianapolis, after the Patriots held the Colts to a combined 17 points in playoff wins at home the previous two years), 33 to the Ravens when Joe Flacco completed four passes, and 28 to Mark Sanchez’s Jets.

The Patriots lost 17-14 in the Super Bowl four years ago, so that one’s on the offense, but you’ll remember the defense gave up the winning touchdown with 35 seconds left.

Under Crennel, the Patriots gave up an average of 16.6 points per playoff game. They held six of nine opponents — including the 2001 Greatest-Show-On-Turf Rams — to 17 or fewer.

There are a million factors that go beyond Crennel, of course. His last defense had Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi, and Willie McGinest. This year, of the 12 defenders who started at least six games, four came into the league as undrafted free agents. Wide receiver Julian Edelman sometimes plays defensive back.

New England apologists will point out that some of the yards given up this year came against a prevent defense, and there’s some truth to that, but there’s also video of Matt Moore and Ryan Fitzpatrick carving up the Patriots while playing with a lead or small deficit.

The only regular-season game New England didn’t give up at least 16 points? At home against Tyler Palko and the Chiefs.

There’s a reason one of the popular topics around here this season was whether the Patriots could convince Crennel to come back to his old job.

• • •

Romeo Crennel walked into an unwinnable situation the last time. That’s what Chiefs insiders think, anyway, and of course this all comes with a lot of hindsight and at least a little revisionist history.

But look at the facts. Crennel took over a 4-12 team that got outscored by more points than all but two other teams. His quarterback the first year was Trent Dilfer. Then it was Charlie Frye. Then Derek Anderson.

Cleveland’s best two players those years were Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow, a problem from the start. The whole thing was a failure, there’s no question about that, but it’s also true the Browns won 10 games in Crennel’s third season. That’s more than any other year in the current incarnation of the Browns, and they’ve won 14 games in the three years since Crennel left.

The view changes if you shift perspective, doesn’t it?

Pioli’s Chiefs are behind schedule, of course. Three years in and they have a melting offensive line and still no franchise quarterback. Injuries torpedoed 2011, sure, but the focus on ACL tears distracts from Pioli’s refusal to do much of anything bold since the Matt Cassel trade.

Surely nobody believes that firing Todd Haley ends all the drama.

But Crennel takes over what might be the AFC West favorite next year. If Jamaal Charles is 90 percent of what he was, he’s the best running back in the division. Tamba Hali is the best pass-rusher. Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry and the rest make for the best secondary. Dwayne Bowe heads a deep group of receivers.

Maybe you’ve read here before that the Chiefs have the chassis for a championship team.

That’s either a compliment or an indictment, depending on how Pioli drives it.

• • •

Look around, and you see a lot to be encouraged about for the Chiefs. The offensive line is the top priority, and the Chiefs appear convinced that they have to improve the quarterback situation — even if it doesn’t go to the extent that most of us would like.

Perhaps more importantly, the Year of the Quarterback has led directly into the Postseason of the Defense.

Half a postseason doesn’t make a trend, but isn’t it at least a little encouraging that Alex Smith beat Drew Brees?

What’s been lost in the talk back home about Pioli and The Patriot Way is that the Patriots are trying something completely different now than the Chiefs. New England is built almost entirely on offense: Brady and Wes Welker and Rob Gronkowski and the No. 2 offense in the NFL.

The new Chiefs have promoted their defensive coordinator, build around Hali and Derrick Johnson and Eric Berry, and if they ever get back to the playoffs, they’ll surely force at least a few punts.

But maybe the most encouraging thing from the Chiefs’ offseason is Pioli’s public pledge to do his job better. Pioli is a self-analytical sort, very meticulous, and if that’s gotten in the way of more aggressive personnel moves over his first three years maybe it can lead to a better perspective going forward.

That’s the Chiefs’ best chance, anyway. Pioli has everything he needs.

The rest is on him now.

[007]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

[milkman]

Trading for Cassel was a bold move?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Romeo Crennel walked into an unwinnable situation the last time. That’s what Chiefs insiders think, anyway, and of course this all comes with a lot of hindsight and at least a little revisionist history.

But look at the facts. Crennel took over a 4-12 team that got outscored by more points than all but two other teams. His quarterback the first year was Trent Dilfer. Then it was Charlie Frye. Then Derek Anderson.

LMAO

And in 2012, he'll take over a 7-9 team that was outscored by every team in the league except the Rams - and they were only 19 points behind. His QB will be Matt Cassel.

Look at the facts, Sam.

[mikey23545]

Trading for Cassel was a bold move?

You realize the definition of the word bold is not successful, right?

[Mr_Tomahawk]

At this point, I hope Crennel pushes to resign Orton...

[milkman]

You realize the definition of the word bold is not successful, right?

This has nothing to do with whether it was successful.

Trading for Matt Cassel, especially for Scott Pioli, who had as much familiarity with Cassel as anyone in the league, was the safe move.

Trading for what you believe is a known quantity rather than risking an unknown.

[Tribal Warfare]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

Well all things considered Alex Smith was the #1 overall pick in his draft in comparison to a career backup 7th rounder.

[O.city]

I think/ hope Romeo pushes to resign Orton.

I also think that the discussion about this front office woudl be alot different if those 3 guys wouldn't have torn ACLs. But it did happen and this is where we are.

The front office needs to make some bold moves to show the fanbase that they are serious about winning, which is something I don't think Pioli feels comfortable doing.

[007]

Well all things considered Alex Smith was the #1 overall pick in his draft in comparison to a career backup 7th rounder.

Who has looked like utter dogshit up until this year when he looks like nothing more than a competent game manager. That guy will never take over a game and win it for you.

[BoneKrusher]

Trading for Cassel was a bold move?

i agree.
more like a stoopid move.:thumb:

[SAUTO]

Who has looked like utter dogshit up until this year when he looks like nothing more than a competent game manager. That guy will never take over a game and win it for you.
Didn't he do that last week?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

Who has looked like utter dogshit up until this year when he looks like nothing more than a competent game manager. That guy will never take over a game and win it for you.

Point being he was drafted with the intent in being a franchise QB. Instead of the hope and praying that our dogshit turns into diamonds philosophy that Pioli has.

[milkman]

Who has looked like utter dogshit up until this year when he looks like nothing more than a competent game manager. That guy will never take over a game and win it for you.

He may never be anything more than a game manager.

That being said, did you miss the game against the Saints?

He absolutely did take over that game and won it for them.

That may be his one bright shining moment, but you can't say "never" when it has already happened.

[DeezNutz]

Trading for Cassel was a bold move?

I could understand using this term if we qualify it to mean that if Cassel were to fail, Pioli would look even worse because "no one knew more about the player."

"Bold" still probably isn't the right word, but Cassel makes Pioli look really, really stupid, and SP had to understand this risk when he made the move.

[O.city]

Scariest part about Cassel, is that Pioli got to see him day in day out for years, while also watching Brady. Yet, he still thought Cassel could be a franchise qb, seeing with his own eyes exactly what one is.

Thats the worst part.

[Coogs]

At this point, I hope Crennel pushes to resign Orton...

At this point I agree. Barring an unexpected move to the top of the draft, the best move for the QB position for the 2012 season is Orton... with the hope that Stanzi is/was being protected for a reason, and was not actuallly a worse option than Palko. I really think the 2012 team could win with Orton, but not so much with Cassel.

[Coogs]

Scariest part about Cassel, is that Pioli got to see him day in day out for years, while also watching Brady. Yet, he still thought Cassel could be a franchise qb, seeing with his own eyes exactly what one is.

Thats the worst part.

I was just watching a piece on Brady on ESPN2 about his college days and the flipping of QB's between Brady and Henson. At the end, they had a piece with some coach... didn't really see who because I was reading here and listening there... but whoever it was said the thing that makes Brady the best QB in the NFL is that he can read the defense like no other QB. That is exactly what Cassel can not do.

[BigMeatballDave]

Scariest part about Cassel, is that Pioli got to see him day in day out for years, while also watching Brady. Yet, he still thought Cassel could be a franchise qb, seeing with his own eyes exactly what one is.

Thats the worst part.

This is what infuriates me the most about Scott.

[Fritz88]

Scariest part about Cassel, is that Pioli got to see him day in day out for years, while also watching Brady. Yet, he still thought Cassel could be a franchise qb, seeing with his own eyes exactly what one is.

Thats the worst part.

Scott looks for work ethic more than anything else. He believes if you work hard enough and you are a woman, you can grow a penis.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigChiefFan]

How fucking bad is it, that some of you clamor for Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

[gblowfish]

I have hope for Cassel.

Bill Kenney was the best woman to ever play in he NFL. I'm optimistic Cassel will surpass her accomplishments as a Chiefs QB.

[Lex Luthor]

I have hope for Cassel.

Bill Kenney was the best woman to ever play in he NFL. I'm optimistic Cassel will surpass her accomplishments as a Chiefs QB.

Why the hate for Bill Kenney? He was a decent QB on a shitty team.

[milkman]

I have hope for Cassel.

Bill Kenney was the best woman to ever play in he NFL. I'm optimistic Cassel will surpass her accomplishments as a Chiefs QB.

While I agree with your overall opinion of Bill Kenney, there's no way in hell that Cassel is a better QB who can provide you any hope.

Cassel is putting up lesser numbers per game in an era that promotes teh passing game.

Kenney sucked, but Cassel sucks more, and it really isn't close.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

The Patriots haven't won a Superbowl since Crennel left.

That right there is something to think about.

And yes Cassel sucks !

[BigMeatballDave]

How fucking bad is it, that some of you clamor for Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

Well, when we've seen nothing but shit at QB for the last 6 seasons, above average QB play actually looks good.

[milkman]

Well, when we've seen nothing but shit at QB for the last 6 seasons, near average QB play actually looks good.

FYP your post to reflect reality.

[Coogs]

How fucking bad is it, that some of you clamor for Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

When looking at the 2012 football season, and the 2012 football season only, Orton appears to be our best option that is realistic. If you have something that appears to be a better option for 2012... and is actually doable... I'm all ears.

[DaFace]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

I love the 9ers and am pulling for them to win it all. I mean, how can you possibly root for the Giants (won in 2008) or the Patriots (won in 2005), or even the Ravens (lost in 2001) over the 9ers, who haven't been to a Super Bowl since 1995?

[whoman69]

When looking at the 2012 football season, and the 2012 football season only, Orton appears to be our best option that is realistic. If you have something that appears to be a better option for 2012... and is actually doable... I'm all ears.

Orton is the safe route. Cassel is the familiar route. That is why no other option is being put forth. Safe and familiar is the Pioli mantra.

[BigChiefFan]

Orton had 1 TD and 2 INT in three games for us and some actually want to re-sign him. He sucks ass.

[jAZ]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

Then what you REALLY don't want to know is that

1) in 2007, a non-top tier QB won a SB...
2) in his 3rd full season of starting
3) with lesser stats than another QB after his 3rd full season

And that first QB went on to show dramatic improvement over the next 4 season and is now considered by many to be an elite QB.

http://i43.tinypic.com/ayt540.jpg

Uncomfortably similar stats.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Orton had 1 TD and 2 INT in three games for us and some actually want to re-sign him. He sucks ass.

Orton > Cassel.

Do you not agree?

[DeezNutz]

When looking at the 2012 football season, and the 2012 football season only, Orton appears to be our best option that is realistic. If you have something that appears to be a better option for 2012... and is actually doable... I'm all ears.

Trade up. Trade up. Trade up.

It's doable, but only if your name isn't Scott fucking Pioli. That said, I'll take mediocre (Orton) over garbage (Cassel) any day.

[Coogs]

I'm still listening...

[DeezNutz]

Then what you REALLY don't want to know is that

1) in 2007, a non-top tier QB won a SB...
2) in his 3rd full season of starting
3) with lesser stats than another QB after his 3rd full season

And that first QB went on to show dramatic improvement over the next 4 season and is now considered by many to be an elite QB.

http://i43.tinypic.com/ayt540.jpg

Uncomfortably similar stats.

Pretty important qualification there.

Eli was developing as a rookie QB, and when he hit what are typically a QB's prime years, surprise, surprise, he played like a QB in his prime.

Cassel was not a fucking rookie when he arrived in KC and thus should not be compared to one.

[BigChiefFan]

Orton > Cassel.

Do you not agree?

NO, I don't agree. They both suck. Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Cassel actually has a little better numbers, but I doubt many want to actually look at the facts, after seeing the responses here.

[BigChiefFan]

I'm still listening...

I've said it before...trade up for Luck.

[the Talking Can]

now we know mellinger can deep throat...pioli couldn't have written it better

and the Chiefs appear convinced that they have to improve the quarterback situation

really? where is the evidence for that? Pioli has made it crystal clear that he is still balls deep in Cassel's vagina...

a 4-12 team that got outscored by more points than all but two other teams

what else would they get outscored more by? bananas? cock rings?

[Coogs]

NO, I don't agree.

See, I do agree. Orton made plays Cassel could not make. Our offensive line only gave up 1 sack in 3 games with Orton. Hell, Thomas Jones even looked like a RB at times with Orton.

And Orton beat the Packers, should have beat the Raiders... he put us in position to win..., and went into Denver and beat the Tebow's... who had something to play for.

I agree with the crowd that says Orton > Cassel. For my money, it isn't even close.

[Coogs]

I've said it before...trade up for Luck.

I'm on that bandwagon. Said it before too. And even before the Milkman, said players needed to be part of the trade, as the Colts would be in a win now mode if they are interested in trading that pick.

Just don't see that as being a real option though.

[the Talking Can]

going into year 4 of the pioli era, and the BEST we can hope for is for Kyle Orton to be our QB...

that is all you need to know to understand what a fucking failure pioli is to this point...

[Coogs]

going into year 4 of the pioli era, and the BEST we can hope for is for Kyle Orton to be our QB...

that is all you need to know to understand what a fucking failure pioli is to this point...

That is hard to argue with. Very much agree.

[jAZ]

Pretty important qualification there.

Eli was developing as a rookie QB, and when he hit what are typically a QB's prime years, surprise, surprise, he played like a QB in his prime.

Cassel was not a fucking rookie when he arrived in KC and thus should not be compared to one.

Manning threw 1300+ passes in 4 years as a starter in the SEC prior to those numbers. Matt Cassel threw 33 passes in 4 years in the Pac 10 and another 39 in his 3 years in the NFL prior to those stats.

Cassel may have zero potential, but Manning had a LOT more experience than Cassel when they each started their first NFL game.

[Hammock Parties]

I hate Mellinger. What is this, the Star trying to smooth things over?

[007]

He may never be anything more than a game manager.

That being said, did you miss the game against the Saints?

He absolutely did take over that game and won it for them.

That may be his one bright shining moment, but you can't say "never" when it has already happened.

didn't get to see that game but I would bet it was a one time thing.

[jAZ]

Orton > Cassel.

Do you not agree?

It was stunning to see him struggle in the red zone. Between the 20's, he looked amazing. But that's only part of the game. So it's hard to judge.

I'm hoping that Orton is here as a competitor to Cassel, but it sounds like he'd rather be elsewhere. So that's not likely an option.

[007]

I love the 9ers and am pulling for them to win it all. I mean, how can you possibly root for the Giants (won in 2008) or the Patriots (won in 2005), or even the Ravens (lost in 2001) over the 9ers, who haven't been to a Super Bowl since 1995?

Thats easy. Because I have always hated the 9ers. Plus, I don't want any game managers winning superbowls as long as the Chiefs keep giving us shit QBs.

[007]

Then what you REALLY don't want to know is that

1) in 2007, a non-top tier QB won a SB...
2) in his 3rd full season of starting
3) with lesser stats than another QB after his 3rd full season

And that first QB went on to show dramatic improvement over the next 4 season and is now considered by many to be an elite QB.

http://i43.tinypic.com/ayt540.jpg

Uncomfortably similar stats.

OMFG we are comparing Cassel to Manning now. JFC

[Hammock Parties]

Manning threw 1300+ passes in 4 years as a starter in the SEC prior to those numbers. Matt Cassel threw 33 passes in 4 years in the Pac 10 and another 39 in his 3 years in the NFL prior to those stats.

Cassel may have zero potential, but Manning had a LOT more experience than Cassel when they each started their first NFL game.

Are you some kind of Cassel lover?

In Cassel's fourth year starting (which you conveniently left out) he turned into dogshit. Eli improved, and the next season Eli put up franchise QB numbers.

Your comparison is dogshit.

[Coogs]

It was stunning to see him struggle in the red zone. Between the 20's, he looked amazing. But that's only part of the game. So it's hard to judge.


To be fair, he put some passes right on the money for TD's in the red zone. Some would have been tough catches, some should have been easy. Then there was the play calling issue as well...

And also to be fair, I am not saying we must sign Orton today.

[jAZ]

OMFG we are comparing Cassel to Manning now. JFC

And they look nearly identical. Strange, huh?

[Hammock Parties]

And they look nearly identical. Strange, huh?

Did they look identical in their fourth season as full-time starters?

NO.

[Epic Fail 007]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

But your wrong you can win without a top qb http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_quarterbacks_not_drafted_in_the_first_round_have_won_a_super_bowel

[007]

And they look nearly identical. Strange, huh?

Eli was a rookie that grew into his current status. Cassel was 28 when he came here and rookies today are better than him,. even the substandard ones.

[007]

But your wrong you can win without a top qb http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_quarterbacks_not_drafted_in_the_first_round_have_won_a_super_bowel

all of those QBs are bounds better than Cassel ever will be.

[Hammock Parties]

Eli was a rookie that grew into his current status. Cassel was 28 when he came here and rookies today are better than him,. even the substandard ones.

You don't even need to bring up their age.

Eli's 4th season as a full-time starter blows Cassel's out of the water, and Cassel is not throwing for 4,000 yards next season like Eli did in his 5th season.

Eli's career was on an upswing, Cassel's took a nosedive in the last 11 games. 10 TD, 14 INT, 65 QB rating.

[007]

You don't even need to bring up their age.

Eli's 4th season as a full-time starter blows Cassel's out of the water, and Cassel is not throwing for 4,000 yards next season like Eli did in his 5th season.

Eli's career was on an upswing, Cassel's took a nosedive in the last 11 games. 10 TD, 14 INT, 65 QB rating.

Point being is that it was a dumbass comparison.

[BossChief]

Scott looks for work ethic more than anything else. He believes if you work hard enough and you are a woman, you can grow a penis.
Posted via Mobile Device

Truthiness

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Orton had 1 TD and 2 INT in three games for us and some actually want to re-sign him. He sucks ass.

Name someone we can put at QB that's better !

[the Talking Can]

i remember when people used to compare Thigpen's stats to Raperburger...

the dumb never ceases at chiefsplanet...

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Comparing cassel and Manning is dumb !

[Chris Meck]

Who has looked like utter dogshit up until this year when he looks like nothing more than a competent game manager. That guy will never take over a game and win it for you.

Um, he did EXACTLY that in the Saints game in the playoffs.

[Epic Fail 007]

all of those QBs are bounds better than Cassel ever will be.

I agree I was not refering to cassel,i hate cassel

[007]

I agree I was not refering to cassel,i hate cassel

Glad we agree on that point. :D

I just wish we could figure out why Orton turns into a pumpkin when he gets within the 20 yard line.

[DeezNutz]

Manning threw 1300+ passes in 4 years as a starter in the SEC prior to those numbers. Matt Cassel threw 33 passes in 4 years in the Pac 10 and another 39 in his 3 years in the NFL prior to those stats.

Cassel may have zero potential, but Manning had a LOT more experience than Cassel when they each started their first NFL game.

Absolutely. All of the above exacerbates the stupidity of Pioli's decision to acquire Cassel.

[jAZ]

Eli was a rookie that grew into his current status. Cassel was 28 when he came here and rookies today are better than him,. even the substandard ones.

Again, Manning threw 1300+ passes in real, live games before his first start. Cassel threw about 70 passes.

Cassel had enough non-game experience to justify Pioli seeing his potential, but he had less real, game-speed experience (and less practice speed experience, having been the backup at both levels) than Manning. And not just a little less experience, but a TON less experience.

Clayton's argument about year-4 is far better than the argument that it's not a fair comparison due to each QB's past experience.

The only reasonable defense of Cassel in his 4th season is that he needs an elite OC to keep him at a reasonably good NFL QB level. He sure didn't have that this year.

I'm not dumb enough to argue that Cassel is an elite QB in waiting. But just because he's not elite doesn't mean it's ok to ignore the facts of the matter entirely.

Cassel has just enough hope buried in his past good performances, and just enough excuses wrapped around his bad ones, that we don't know for sure what his future holds under the right conditions.

And it's possible that under the right conditions, Cassel is every bit the QB that Manning was on 2007.... even if he's not capable of becoming the Eli Manning of 2012.

Winning a super bowl clearly only requires the 2007 Manning, not the 2012 Manning.

[Coogs]

Glad we agree on that point. :D

I just wish we could figure out why Orton turns into a pumpkin when he gets within the 20 yard line.

Again, Orton put three balls right on the money that should have been TD's when in the red zone. We didn't get any of them. And there was some piss poor play calls given the state of our short yardage running game... both last season and this season.

[Gonzo]

tl;dr
But I agree with whatever you people say.
Posted via Mobile Device

[007]

Again, Manning threw 1300+ passes in real, live games before his first start. Cassel threw about 70 passes.

Cassel had enough non-game experience to justify Pioli seeing his potential, but he had less real, game-speed experience (and less practice speed experience, having been the backup at both levels) than Manning. And not just a little less experience, but a TON less experience.

Clayton's argument about year-4 is far better than the argument that it's not a fair comparison due to each QB's past experience.

The only reasonable defense of Cassel in his 4th season is that he needs an elite OC to keep him at a reasonably good NFL QB level. He sure didn't have that this year.

I'm not dumb enough to argue that Cassel is an elite QB in waiting. But just because he's not elite doesn't mean it's ok to ignore the facts of the matter entirely.

Cassel has just enough hope buried in his past good performances, and just enough excuses wrapped around his bad ones, that we don't know for sure what his future holds under the right conditions.

And it's possible that under the right conditions, Cassel is every bit the QB that Manning was on 2007.... even if he's not capable of becoming the Eli Manning of 2012.

Winning a super bowl clearly only requires the 2007 Manning, not the 2012 Manning.
OK, I was misunderstanding your argument then. I still feel that Cassel does not have the potential to ever win a postseason game in this league. I also feel that we have already seen his absolute best. Which is clearly not good enough.

[Hammock Parties]

Winning a super bowl clearly only requires the 2007 Manning, not the 2012 Manning.

LMAO

Eli Manning is probably not starting in New York if he maintains his level of play from 2007 instead of becoming one of the best QBs in the league.

You sicken me.

[BigChiefFan]

Name someone we can put at QB that's better ! Here's your answer: Andrew Luck.



Why on Earth would we hitch our wagon to Orton?
1 TD, 2INTs, 3 games- we know what he can do...not much.

Over his career he has worse numbers than Cassel, that should tell you all you need to know about Orton.

[007]

Again, Orton put three balls right on the money that should have been TD's when in the red zone. We didn't get any of them. And there was some piss poor play calls given the state of our short yardage running game... both last season and this season.

Those were all in one game though. He had the same problem in Denver and had the problem in all three of our games. The guy just loses his confidence once he is inside the 20 for some reason. Seems like this is a problem that should be fixable. Not saying I want him but I would rather have him than cassel. It would be a matter of finding an OC that can figure out the problem and fix it though.

[007]

Here's your answer: Andrew Luck.



Why on Eath would we hitch our wagon to Orton?
1 TD, 2INTs, 3 games- we know what he can do...not much.

Over his career he has worse numbers than Cassel, that should tell you all you need to know about Orton.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If these are the only two choices I'll go with Orton. I just hope to God they are not our only two choices.

[beach tribe]

Here's your answer: Andrew Luck.



Why on Earth would we hitch our wagon to Orton?
1 TD, 2INTs, 3 games- we know what he can do...not much.

Over his career he has worse numbers than Cassel, that should tell you all you need to know about Orton.

But uh, we CAN'T put him back there.


Disclaimer: this post is not an endorsement of any mediocre QB.

[BigChiefFan]

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If these are the only two choices I'll go with Orton. I just hope to God they are not our only two choices.Orton has worse numbers than Cassel, is already 29 years old, and some of you want the new regime to hitch their wagon to a player who's been run out of two places already and plays mediocre, at best?

Orton is not a franchise QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Here's your answer: Andrew Luck.



Why on Earth would we hitch our wagon to Orton?
1 TD, 2INTs, 3 games- we know what he can do...not much.

Over his career he has worse numbers than Cassel, that should tell you all you need to know about Orton.

He has also proven to be a better QB than Cassel over his career.

No one wants him to lead the franchise, but he would be an acceptable stopgap while we go get another young QB.

[tk13]

If Pioli really cares, he'll trade up for the 1st and 2nd picks so we can take both Luck and Griffin, and then see which one is better.

[007]

Orton has worse numbers than Cassel, is already 29 years old, and some of you want the new regime to hitch their wagon to a player who's been run out of two places, already?

Orton is not a franchise QB.
Who said he was?

[OnTheWarpath15]

going into year 4 of the pioli era, and the BEST we can hope for is for Kyle Orton to be our QB...

that is all you need to know to understand what a fucking failure pioli is to this point...

Home run post.

http://i40.tinypic.com/of6po2.gif

[Okie_Apparition]

Orton put the O in the _ffence
& still has one to spare

[BigChiefFan]

He has also proven to be a better QB than Cassel over his career.

No one wants him to lead the franchise, but he would be an acceptable stopgap while we go get another young QB.Waiver wire, Holmes. 1 TD, 2 INTs in 3 games.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

He has also proven to be a better QB than Cassel over his career.

No one wants him to lead the franchise, but he would be an acceptable stopgap while we go get another young QB.

This.

[milkman]

Waiver wire, Holmes. 1 TD, 2 INTs in 3 games.

Are you arguing that Cassel is a better QB than Orton?

[RealSNR]

I'm reposting this because this article makes me irate

I want to take a ride in a time machine for a second:

September 30, 2011:

-"SUCK FOR LUCK!!!"
-"Dude, moron. You never root against your team. If the Chiefs need to draft a QB, they can trade up for one."

Now let's go back to the present: People want to pay far out the ass to get Luck or RGIII.

What do the "you can trade up to get a QB" people say?

"Too expensive."

:facepalm:

[Okie_Apparition]

Orton takes risky chances he shouldn't
while Cassel checks down or throws it away
I like the former if only for a change of pace

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Waiver wire, Holmes. 1 TD, 2 INTs in 3 games.

Cassel has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 years.

Orton has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 games.

Holmes...

[BigChiefFan]

Who said he was?Anybody endorsing giving him starter money, is endorsing him being our franchise QB. We already have a shitty QB signed, we don't need two shitty QBs making starter money. Orton is average at best-some of you are so desperate for a QB, you'll beg, plead, and borrow for a turd at QB. Orton is a turd QB.

[BigChiefFan]

Are you arguing that Cassel is a better QB than Orton?NO, I'm saying they both suck. You don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Anybody endorsing giving him starter money, is endorsing him being our franchise QB. We already have a shitty QB signed, we don't need two shitty QBs making starter money. Orton is average at best-some of you are so desperate for a QB, you'll beg, plead, and borrow for a turd at QB. Orton is a turd QB.

Release Cassel and pay the less shitty QB of the two, Orton.

Draft and develop a QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Waiver wire, Holmes. 1 TD, 2 INTs in 3 games.

You're judging Orton ENTIRELY on three games after he had been with the team only a few weeks.

That's just cosmically ignorant of who Orton is as a player.

Anyone with half a brain knows he's a better player than Cassel. He proved that in Denver.

[BigChiefFan]

Cassel has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 years.

Orton has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 games.

Holmes...Yeah I'm sure his sole TD in those three games put the fear of God in the other teams.

[Hammock Parties]

Cassel has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 years.

Orton has 2 wins against playoff teams in 3 games.

Holmes...

LMAO

And two 299+ yard games in three games.

Cassel has three in three YEARS.

[BigChiefFan]

You're judging Orton ENTIRELY on three games after he had been with the team only a few weeks.

That's just cosmically ignorant of who Orton is as a player.

Anyone with half a brain knows he's a better player than Cassel. He proved that in Denver.

Not liking Orton is not an endorsement of Cassel. Try actually being objective.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

NO, I'm saying they both suck. You don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

Yes...they both suck. But you do not see ANY advantage of having Orton lead this offense rather than Cassel?

[007]

Anybody endorsing giving him starter money, is endorsing him being our franchise QB. We already have a shitty QB signed, we don't need two shitty QBs making starter money. Orton is average at best-some of you are so desperate for a QB, you'll beg, plead, and borrow for a turd at QB. Orton is a turd QB.

Thats not what people are saying. Nobody is calling Orton a franchise QB. This franchise is sticking us with these horrible QBs. If we have to choose one, I'll take the one that can at least move us down the field and make the offense look serviceable over the one that can't even ****ing move the offense. Both obviously still lose the game. One just makes the game a little less of a pain to watch.

This franchise is never going to give a QB worth a shit again.

[BigChiefFan]

Release Cassel and pay the less shitty QB of the two, Orton.

Draft and develop a QB.

Release a turd for another turd and take the cap hit?

Hitching our wagon to Orton is an excersize in futility, we know exactly what he is... a QB with a career rating of 77.8 Cassell's rating, this year, when he fell apart...76.6.

You're letting your hatred for Cassel, cloud your objectivity on Orton.

[Hammock Parties]

Release a turd for another turd and take the cap hit?

Hitching our wagon to Orton is an excersize in futility, we know exactly what he is... a QB with a career rating of 77.8 Cassell's rating, this year, when he fell apart...76.6.

You're letting your hatred for Cassel, cloud your objectivity on Orton.

Objectively, Orton is a better player than Cassel, and his career rating doesn't indicate what kind of player he is.

And there would be no cap hit for Cassel.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Release a turd for another turd and take the cap hit?

Hitching our wagon to Orton is an excersize in futility, we know exactly what he is... a QB with a career rating of 77.8 Cassell's rating, this year, when he fell apart...76.6.

You're letting your hatred for Cassel, cloud your objectivity on Orton.

"cap hit"

That does not apply with the Chiefs...

[007]

We need to fire the turd at GM that has stuck us with this shit.

[BigChiefFan]

"his career rating doesn't indicate what kind of player he is."



LMAO. Sure thing.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO. Sure thing.

It really doesn't.

If you want to use QB rating to get an idea of what kind of player Orton is, look at his rating in Denver.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

LMAO. Sure thing.

Does it?

Because if it DOES....Orton has a better winning pct. than Cassel as a Chiefs starting QB.

Just sayin.

[BigChiefFan]

Orton 9 TDs 9 INTs-this year.
Cassel 10 TDs, 9 INTS-this year.

Orton sucks, too. I can't believe some are actually arguing for a career mediocre QB, going on 30, as the saviour to our QB woes. Whatever.

[milkman]

NO, I'm saying they both suck. You don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

You're right.

They do both suck.

The difference is in the level of suck.

With Orton you get a guy that can, at the very least, move the chains and keep the defense fresh.

You sign Orton to a contract that makes cutting him in a year or two relatively painless from a financial standpoint.

In the meantime, you draft and develop that young guy that's ready to take the reins in a couple of years.

[Hammock Parties]

Orton 9 TDs 9 INTs-this year.
Cassel 10 TDs, 9 INTS-this year.

Orton sucks, too. I can't believe some are actually arguing for a career mediocre QB, going on 30, as the saviour to our QB woes. Whatever.

No one is arguing for him as the savior.

We'd just like to have someone who can move the offense.

[Coogs]

Here's your answer: Andrew Luck.



Why on Earth would we hitch our wagon to Orton?
1 TD, 2INTs, 3 games- we know what he can do...not much.

Over his career he has worse numbers than Cassel, that should tell you all you need to know about Orton.

OK, yes. He had 1 TD and 2 INT's. But it easily could have been 3 TD's and 1 Int.

It would have been a tough catch, but McClain could have/should have caught one against the Packers. And if Bowe catches the one aginst the Faiders, not only does Orton have 1 less Int, we probably win that game.

Against Denver, we were never in the red zone... McCluster ran one in from 21 yards out... but were pinned deep in our own territory for the majority of the game, with a 7 point lead. No real reason to gamble from there.

And, our offensive line... the one that couldn't protect Cassel... only gave up 1 sack in those three games. And Oakland and Denver were pretty good at getting after the QB this year.

Plus, Thomas Jones looked like he still had some game with Orton at the helm. With Cassel... :shake:

Is Orton a franchise guy? Probably not. But he does remind me of a former late bloomer in Rich Gannon. We got rid of Gannon, and that was a mistake.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

BigChiefFan...you can still wear your beloved Cassel jersey to games. You don't have to buy an Orton jersey if he is the starter...I wouldn't.

[007]

Orton 9 TDs 9 INTs-this year.
Cassel 10 TDs, 9 INTS-this year.

Orton sucks, too. I can't believe some are actually arguing for a career mediocre QB, going on 30, as the saviour to our QB woes. Whatever.

Not one person here is fucking saying that dumbass.

[BigChiefFan]

Great endorse the turd, Orton.

I refuse to endorse a mediocre QB as the solution, even as a stop-gap.

He's a shitty QB, in my book and the numbers support that assessment.


40 years of shit and the fans want Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

[Hammock Parties]

40 years of shit and the fans want Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

Who are we supposed to want?

Who else did we have a shot at starting next season?

The guy averaged 311 yards over a 9-game stretch in 2010. He can move a pass-first offense. Cassel can't.

Not hard to understand.

[007]

BigChiefFan...you can still wear your beloved Cassel jersey to games. You don't have to buy an Orton jersey if he is the starter...I wouldn't.

LMAO

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Great endorse the turd, Orton.

I refuse to endorse a mediocre QB as the solution, even as a stop-gap.

He's a shitty QB, in my book and the numbers support that assessment.


40 years of shit and the fans want Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

So you will endorse Cassel?

[BigChiefFan]

Not one person here is ****ing saying that dumbass.

Eat shit, fuckhead. I've tried to remain civil, but because some won't endorse another shitty QB, you want to resort to name-calling. Fuck you. I can play that weasel-ass game, too.

[007]

Great endorse the turd, Orton.

I refuse to endorse a mediocre QB as the solution, even as a stop-gap.

He's a shitty QB, in my book and the numbers support that assessment.


40 years of shit and the fans want Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.Who do you want then. Both suck and none of truly want either one of them. So who the hell do you want.

[007]

Eat shit, ****head. I've tried to remain civil, but because some won't endorse another shitty QB, you want to resort to name-calling. **** you. I can play that weasel-ass game, too.

Whatever. You are the one that keeps saying we want Orton as our fucking franchise QB and none of us are saying that. You constantly are putting words in our mouths. I'm sick of you telling me I am saying something I am not.

[Coogs]

40 years of shit and the fans want Kyle Orton. Jesus Christ.

Not at all. But until you hear the commish say... with the first pick, we have a trade. Kansas City is now on the clock... Orton is our best option for 2012.

[007]

Not at all. But until you hear the commish say... with the first pick, we have a trade. Kansas City is now on the clock... Orton is our best option for 2012.

Don't waste your breath. He's not worth it. I'm done discussing this with him.

[Okie_Apparition]

Him & JD1020 going round & round might be entertaining

[jAZ]

Absolutely. All of the above exacerbates the stupidity of Pioli's decision to acquire Cassel.

This argument is absurd. And tired.

Cassel might not turn out to the the franchise QB Pioli hoped for, but he has already turned out to be a better personnel decision than than drafting Sanchez would have been.

FIRST, Look at the decision AT THE TIME (not given what we know now).

Seasons starts:
Sanchez: 1 in college
Cassel: 1 in the NFL

Cost in draft picks:
Sanchez: #5 overall
Cassel:

Cost in Contract:
Sanchez: 5 year, $60M/$28M guaranteed
Cassel: 5 year, $60M/$28M guaranteed (1 year, $14M at time of trade)

Number of Rapelisberger-esque incidents:
Sanchez: 1 in college (http://deadspin.com/5739780/why-no-one-remembers-the-mark-sanchez-rape-case)
Cassel: 0

THEN look at their results:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2z84tgk.jpg


So, Pioli picked the player who...

1) had proven more in the NFL
2) cost a much lower pick
3) got a similar size contract, and
4) hadn't been accused of raping a woman

And the guy he picked has played better over the same 3 years. If you throw in Cassel's 2008 season, he's show himself to be a far better QB in the NFL.

[Brock]

take the cap hit?

.

Yeah, man, we gotta stop picking up all these high priced players!

[BigChiefFan]

Whatever. You are the one that keeps saying we want Orton as our ****ing franchise QB and none of us are saying that. You constantly are putting words in our mouths. I'm sick of you telling me I am saying something I am not.

That's what you've been doing, as well. You insist that if Orton isn't signed, than that must be an endorsement for Cassel.

It's really simple...I don't think Orton is a good QB. Giving him starter money, when his career shows him as mediocre is not a sound plan for now or the future.

Again, you don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

[Hammock Parties]

And again Jaz conveniently leaves out Cassel's terrible 2011.

[milkman]

That's what you've been doing, as well. You insist that if Orton isn't signed, than that must be an endorsement for Cassel.

It's really simple...I don't think Orton is a good QB. Giving him starter money, when his career shows him as mediocre is not a sound plan for now or the future.

Again, you don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

The problem with your argument is that you have not presented a reasonable alternative option.

All you've done is tell us that Orton sucks.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

That's what you've been doing, as well. You insist that if Orton isn't signed, than that must be an endorsement for Cassel.

It's really simple...I don't think Orton is a good QB. Giving him starter money, when his career shows him as mediocre is not a sound plan for now or the future.

Again, you don't replace suck with suck and expect different results.

Who the fuck would you give starter money to then slut?

[BigChiefFan]

The problem with your argument is that you have not presented a reasonable alternative option.

All you've done is tell us that Orton sucks.

I said trade up for Luck.

[Brock]

The problem with your argument is that you have not presented a reasonable alternative option.

All you've done is tell us that Orton sucks.

He did say we should draft Andrew Luck! See, wasn't that a simple solution?

[BigChiefFan]

Who the **** would you give starter money to then slut?I'd trade up for Andrew Luck, ho.

[jAZ]

And again Jaz conveniently leaves out Cassel's terrible 2011.

No, that's the numbers from 2011. See the 9 starts? Just didn't edit the years properly.

[milkman]

And again Jaz conveniently leaves out Cassel's terrible 2011.

Jaz also fails to recognize that we would arguing that it's time to move on from Sanchez.

It doesn't make one damn bit of difference how we came to this point, or who we came to it with.

The fact would be, our QB situation sucks and it's time to look for a solution.

[milkman]

I said trade up for Luck.

Please, tell us how you are going to make that happen.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

I'd trade up for Andrew Luck, ho.

Highly unlikely.

And people are asking..you have two options Cassel and Orton.

You give ONE starter money.

You HAVE to give either Cassel OR Orton starter money.

Who do you give it to?

DISCLAIMER: EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THEY BOTH SUCK.

[DeezNutz]

This argument is absurd. And tired.

Cassel might not turn out to the the franchise QB Pioli hoped for, but he has already turned out to be a better personnel decision than than drafting Sanchez would have been.

FIRST, Look at the decision AT THE TIME (not given what we know now).

Seasons starts:
Sanchez: 1 in college
Cassel: 1 in the NFL

Cost in draft picks:
Sanchez: #5 overall
Cassel:

Cost in Contract:
Sanchez: 5 year, $60M/$28M guaranteed
Cassel: 5 year, $60M/$28M guaranteed (1 year, $14M at time of trade)

Number of Rapelisberger-esque incidents:
Sanchez: 1 in college (http://deadspin.com/5739780/why-no-one-remembers-the-mark-sanchez-rape-case)
Cassel: 0

THEN look at their results:

http://i44.tinypic.com/6xpz0m.jpg


So, Pioli picked the player who...

1) had proven more in the NFL
2) cost a much lower pick
3) got a similar size contract, and
4) hadn't been accused of raping a woman

And the guy he picked has played better over the same 3 years. If you throw in Cassel's 2008 season, he's show himself to be a far better QB in the NFL.

Sanchez may or may not develop into a high-quality QB; his '11 was terrible. No ways around it.

But comparing Cassel to another (potentially) poor QB doesn't make the decision to acquire the former correct.

And you want to talk about absurd. #4 fits the bill perfectly. I don't give a rat **** what anyone is "accused" of. Convicted? Absolutely. "Accused"? Get that shit out of here. This is as ridiculous as citing Pete Carroll as evidence for why Sanchez should have stayed at USC. Or bringing up the shit about his agent when he left school.

Cassel was a stupid ****ing decision. Sanchez might prove to be a stupid ****ing draft pick. It's not that complicated.

So what should Pioli have done? If he would have sat tight. It looks like McDouche was well on his way to running Cutler out of Denver, come hell or high water. And the idiot was longing for Cassel. Cutler in KC would have sucked.

And there are always aging vets (such as Hasselbeck in TENN this year) that would have been less expensive and likely more productive.

[O.city]

Then by that Deez, you don't give a rats ass about all the "accusations" flying around about Pioli and the atmosphere at Arrowhead?










P.s just messin bro.

[whoman69]

I'd trade up for Andrew Luck, ho.

That is not happening. You'd have to give up three years of draft picks and/or trade away our talent leaving us with a Colt's like shell around our QB. Give us a realistic answer without mortgaging the future.

[BigChiefFan]

Please, tell us how you are going to make that happen.

Trade picks and/or players.

I really believe a trade of Bowe or Carr(I say them because we can franchise one of them and not take a cap hit) plus the appropriate picks to make it happen.

Ideally, I'd rather keep the players and just give up the picks, but you have to give something to get something. Manning would shit a brick to have Bowe on the team, especially if they find a way to retain Wayne.

[O.city]

I would give up three years of draft picks if I had too.

[Okie_Apparition]

Oh shit this is the draft chart says guy

[DeezNutz]

Then by that Deez, you don't give a rats ass about all the "accusations" flying around about Pioli and the atmosphere at Arrowhead?


That's a solid effort. Well played.

However, throwing around "rape" is quite a bit different from the rumors about the working conditions at 1 Arrowhead, regardless of the federal implications of tapping someone's private line.

[BigChiefFan]

That is not happening. You'd have to give up three years of draft picks and/or trade away our talent leaving us with a Colt's like shell around our QB. Give us a realistic answer without mortgaging the future.Getting a franchise QB isn't mortgaging the future, it's quite the opposite of that. It actually gives you a future with some promise.

Not having a franchise QB, we might as well fold up shop because 40 years is proof it doesn't work.

[O.city]

That's a solid effort. Well played.

However, throwing around "rape" is quite a bit different from the rumors about the working conditions at 1 Arrowhead, regardless of the federal implications of tapping someone's private line.

I was just messing with ya man. :p

Good win for your Tigers yesterday btw. Got my tickets for when they make the trip west out I70 to AFH. Should be a good one.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

I'd trade up for Andrew Luck, ho.

Highly unlikely.

And people are asking..you have two options Cassel and Orton.

You give ONE starter money.

You HAVE to give either Cassel OR Orton starter money.

Who do you give it to?

DISCLAIMER: EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THEY BOTH SUCK.

.

[jAZ]

Jaz also fails to recognize that we would arguing that it's time to move on from Sanchez.

It doesn't make one damn bit of difference how we came to this point, or who we came to it with.

The fact would be, our QB situation sucks and it's time to look for a solution.
Read my post, I'm not saying you can't feel that way.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8317221&postcount=70

[BigChiefFan]

.

That's like asking, do I want my left leg chopped off or my right leg chopped off?

[Mr_Tomahawk]

That's like asking, do I want my left leg chopped off or my right leg chopped off?

Answer the question...that's all anyone is asking.

Who do you give the keys to next year Cassel or Orton.

[jAZ]

Sanchez may or may not develop into a high-quality QB; his '11 was terrible. No ways around it.

But comparing Cassel to another (potentially) poor QB doesn't make the decision to acquire the former correct.

And you want to talk about absurd. #4 fits the bill perfectly. I don't give a rat **** what anyone is "accused" of. Convicted? Absolutely. "Accused"? Get that shit out of here. This is as ridiculous as citing Pete Carroll as evidence for why Sanchez should have stayed at USC. Or bringing up the shit about his agent when he left school.

Cassel was a stupid ****ing decision. Sanchez might prove to be a stupid ****ing draft pick. It's not that complicated.

So what should Pioli have done? If he would have sat tight. It looks like McDouche was well on his way to running Cutler out of Denver, come hell or high water. And the idiot was longing for Cassel. Cutler in KC would have sucked.

And there are always aging vets (such as Hasselbeck in TENN this year) that would have been less expensive and likely more productive.
Sorry you can't step back in time and weigh the pros and cons given what we knew at the time.

[jAZ]

That's a solid effort. Well played.

However, throwing around "rape" is quite a bit different from the rumors about the working conditions at 1 Arrowhead, regardless of the federal implications of tapping someone's private line.
Sanchez's incident is factored into character evaluation in the draft whether you agree or not.

[O.city]

After three years as a Chief, I can't believe there are still Cassel nuthuggers.

[BigChiefFan]

Answer the question...that's all anyone is asking.

Who do you give the keys to next year Cassel or Orton.Why does it have to be an either/or?

I would have to see the cap implications of releasing Cassel before making a sound decision.

Orton doesn't signifigantly upgrade the position, not enough to take a major cap hit, if that's the case.

I'd rather bring in Matt Flynn than re-sign Orton, if we are parting ways with Cassel. Let's set the bar a little higher at QB and not settle for Orton.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Why does it have to be an either/or?

I would have to see the cap implications of releasing Cassel before making a sound decision.

Orton doesn't signifigantly upgrade the position, not enough to take a major cap hit, if that's the case.

I'd rather bring in Matt Flynn than re-sign Orton, if we are parting ways with Cassel. Let's set the bar a little higher at QB and not settle for Orton.

Are you ****ing 6 years old?

[milkman]

Trade picks and/or players.

I really believe a trade of Bowe or Carr(I say them because we can franchise one of them and not take a cap hit) plus the appropriate picks to make it happen.

Ideally, I'd rather keep the players and just give up the picks, but you have to give something to get something. Manning would shit a brick to have Bowe on the team, especially if they find a way to retain Wayne.

That's all very good and well.

The problem is that the Colts first have to be willing to make a trade, and while I have suggested that the Colts are only posturing when they say they will both pay Manning and draft Luck, the fact is, in their position, I'm drafting Luck, and releasing Manning.

But if they do pay Manning, then you might have a discussion, with emphasis placed on "might".

Until then, you are not, in any way, presenting a reasonable alternative.

You are only presenting a pipe dream.

[O.city]

One year from today, I'll be sitting in Arrowhead watching Kyle Orton lead the Chiefs in the AFC championship game.




Mark my words.

[Okie_Apparition]

Orton is a beater to get you until you have a large down payment
Flynn could be a bad Hyundai you have to live with for 3 years

[milkman]

Why does it have to be an either/or?

I would have to see the cap implications of releasing Cassel before making a sound decision.

Orton doesn't signifigantly upgrade the position, not enough to take a major cap hit, if that's the case.

I'd rather bring in Matt Flynn than re-sign Orton, if we are parting ways with Cassel. Let's set the bar a little higher at QB and not settle for Orton.

You take no cap hit by releasing Cassel.

[Hammock Parties]

One year from today, I'll be sitting in Arrowhead watching Kyle Orton lead the Chiefs in the AFC championship game.

Mark my words.

http://media.moronail.net/images/stories/dg_pictures/0903/1156.jpg

[007]

One year from today, I'll be sitting in Arrowhead watching Kyle Orton lead the Chiefs in the AFC championship game.




Mark my words.

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

[007]

Hopefully Pioli surprises us but right now, the only options I see him presenting us with are Cassel, Stanzi and Orton. I dont' see him going for Flynn. I don't see him trading up to the top two picks. I don't see any viable cast offs from other teams available. So, unless we are going with Stanzi, the Chiefs have to choose between Orton or Cassel this year.

[jAZ]

Hopefully Pioli surprises us but right now, the only options I see him presenting us with are Cassel, Stanzi and Orton. I dont' see him going for Flynn. I don't see him trading up to the top two picks. I don't see any viable cast offs from other teams available. So, unless we are going with Stanzi, the Chiefs have to choose between Orton or Cassel this year.

Agreed, and I don't see Orton giving us that choice. He wants to go somewhere else, I think.

[Coogs]

Hopefully Pioli surprises us but right now, the only options I see him presenting us with are Cassel, Stanzi and Orton. I dont' see him going for Flynn. I don't see him trading up to the top two picks. I don't see any viable cast offs from other teams available. So, unless we are going with Stanzi, the Chiefs have to choose between Orton or Cassel this year.

This. And the body of work with just the Chiefs... and not the other teams... heavily favors Orton.

[O.city]

This time next year. Remember I said that.

[O.city]

BTW I have changed one thing in my prediction. RGIII is gonna drop to us in the draft. So he will lead us there.

[007]

Agreed, and I don't see Orton giving us that choice. He wants to go somewhere else, I think.

I can't disagree with that. makes me sad to think we have to endure another year of Cassel wearing our D out because he can't keep them off the field.

[007]

BTW I have changed one thing in my prediction. RGIII is gonna drop to us in the draft. So he will lead us there.

thats a nice little dream there.

[O.city]

Cleveland will want to give McCoy all the weapons he can, Manning will go to the Phins, Skins will sign Flynn, Orton to the Seahawks.


RGIII falls into our lap.

[milkman]

Cleveland will want to give McCoy all the weapons he can, Manning will go to the Phins, Skins will sign Flynn, Orton to the Seahawks.


RGIII falls into our lap.

Your last name Quixote?

[O.city]

Hey it could happen.


Something is finally gonna work out for the Chiefs.

[Coogs]

I can't disagree with that. makes me sad to think we have to endure another year of Cassel wearing our D out because he can't keep them off the field.

Yeah. Which makes our little QB debate here between Cassel/Orton resemble one from a few years back which was Grbac/Gannon.

[007]

Hey it could happen.


Something is finally gonna work out for the Chiefs.
Shit, if by some miracle he fell to us I would bet that Pioli is just stubborn enough to NOT take him.

[O.city]

I think Pioli actually realizes that the qb position needs to be upgraded. Its leaked out a little here and there.


Earlier this year it was said that we were looking for a young quarterback to draft.

If RGIII is there when we draft he'll be a CHief next year.

[SAUTO]

Shit, if by some miracle he fell to us I would bet that Pioli is just stubborn enough to NOT take him.

That would end it for me
Posted via Mobile Device

[O.city]

If Luck or RGIII magically fell to us, Pioli should run to the fucking stage.

[milkman]

If Luck or RGIII magically fell to us, Pioli should run to the ****ing stage.

That would be stupid.

The draft would be over by the time he got there.





Wait....

I bet you mean the Chief representative in New York should run to the stage.

[O.city]

Yeah Milk, my bad should have clarified.


I have a gut feeling that one of those guys will be available for us. I think alot of the other teams will fill thru free agency.

[milkman]

Yeah Milk, my bad should have clarified.


I have a gut feeling that one of those guys will be available for us. I think alot of the other teams will fill thru free agency.

Just joking.

[Epic Fail 007]

You added some bs to make them look bad in your own view.The article is not about what you state.If anyones kissing anyones ass its the patriots.Its a fact their defense has not been the same since Romeo.Your saying anything you want to put a bad spin on this.Hmmmmmmmm are you really Haley?Your sure acting like him.A man that feels scorned because of his own mess up.And then makes up storys to make himself feel secure.

[Coogs]

I have a gut feeling that one of those guys will be available for us. I think alot of the other teams will fill thru free agency.

I'll be absolutely stunned if RGIII makes it to #11 or #12. I don't really know what to call it that I'll be if Luck makes it that far.

[milkman]

Where's that scatching head in confusion smiley when you need one?

[O.city]

I don't think it's impossible that RGIII would fall that far.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

I don't think it's impossible that RGIII would fall that far.

I do.

[DeezNutz]

Sorry you can't step back in time and weigh the pros and cons given what we knew at the time.

At the time, I was pretty vocal about the stupidity of the acquisition, so this isn't bitching in hindsight; it's one long continuous bitch session about the stupidity of our GM.

[Coogs]

I don't think it's impossible that RGIII would fall that far.

I'll still be stunned if he does. Hell, if he falls past 4, we had better be on the horn looking to move up.

[Epic Fail 007]

I don't think it's impossible that RGIII would fall that far.

Yes after all RG3 is labeled as a 3 yr project . True story.

[Tribal Warfare]

I do.

If by Tom Cruise's Holy magic alien that Cleveland signs Flynn, the Redskins trade for Manning, and Miami stays with Moore or signs Orton then I can see it.

[Coogs]

If by Tom Cruise's Holy magic alien that Cleveland signs Flynn, the Redskins trade for Manning, and Miami stays with Moore or signs Orton then I can see it.

If all that shit happens, you know we are losing the coin flip with Seattle, and they will take him at #11.

[Tribal Warfare]

If all that shit happens, you know we are losing the coin flip with Seattle, and they will take him at #11.

Nah, we'll give Caroll Cassel straight up then.

[Coogs]

Nah, we'll give Caroll Cassel straight up then.
Pete Carroll? Isn't he the guy that wouldn't let Cassel play QB for USC?

[whoman69]

Pete Carroll? Isn't he the guy that wouldn't let Cassel play QB for USC?

Which means he knows better

[Tribal Warfare]

Pete Carroll? Isn't he the guy that wouldn't let Cassel play QB for USC?

It's fantasyland correct? Then it works :D

[milkman]

Pete Carroll? Isn't he the guy that wouldn't let Cassel play QB for USC?

The Whisperer whispering.

[jAZ]

At the time, I was pretty vocal about the stupidity of the acquisition, so this isn't bitching in hindsight; it's one long continuous bitch session about the stupidity of our GM.

Not hardly.
It all could be bullshit, but Pioli does seem to think a lot of Cassel.

For shits and grins, what are the Planet's thoughts about the following?:

Chiefs and Pats swap first-round picks (#3 and #23), Chiefs give up a third, and Chiefs receive Cassel.

I would say no, but if Pioli really wanted Cassel...and I'm not sure if this would be enough...
Pioli got Cassel and a player for our 2nd. You were talking about giving up our #3 in a package. People, including you, seem to forget that the discussion was 2 1st round picks for Cassel at the time. There were calls for an investigation when he only cost us less than a 2nd.

Your thing, at the time, didn't seem to be anti-Cassel. It was anti-Cassel for 2 1sts. And pro- a QB in the 1st. Presumably Sanchez, though I didn't see that explicitly.

[007]

Where's that scatching head in confusion smiley when you need one?

http://images.zaazu.com/img/scratch-head02-idea-animated-animation-smiley-emoticon-000415-large.gif

[DTLB58]

I love the 9ers and am pulling for them to win it all. I mean, how can you possibly root for the Giants (won in 2008) or the Patriots (won in 2005), or even the Ravens (lost in 2001) over the 9ers, who haven't been to a Super Bowl since 1995?

Easy, I don't "root" for a team based on how long it's been since they have or have not been to a SB.

Plus, I hate Harbaugh. I respect what Jim has done with that team but I still think he has a huge ego and is a arrogant sob and I don't like his kind.

Also, I think the Giants VS Patroits SB rematch would be the most fun to watch.

[jd1020]

You've already got the Browns, who are in the best position to draft RG3, talking about trading up 2 spots to draft him, but ya... It's possible that RG3 drops to 11th, or 12th.

:BS:

[splatbass]

No, IT ISN"T EXCITING TO SEE ALEX SMITH BEAT DREW BREES. That is the absolute LAST thing I want to see. Go Eli and Go Tom is all I have to say today. I don't want any low tier QBs winning a superbowl. I'm tired of hearing all the reports that you don't need a top tier QB to win in the post season.

Go Niners!

It isn't about the Chiefs.