Luke Kuechly

[Chiefs=Champions]

I think this guy is the pick.

He really does everything well. Obviously in the defense he played in he plays more of a DJ type roll, roaming around making plays, but that dosnt mean he cant be a thumper.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0jyoY1ildmg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


A few times in this video he does a great job of disengaging from the blocker and making the stop.

[Chiefs=Champions]

More tape:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CY6m8qAhVhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Iz1g1K-wPqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Direckshun]

I think he's the pick, too, if we stay at #11.

If we trade down, it really depends on who's still on the board.

[Chiefshrink]

That UCF clip doesn't look very good. Luke is always chasing the play or letting the play come to him. Seems slow in diagnosing most plays or maybe he just doesn't have the speed to get there. There were 2 plays where the ball carrier ran right by him. But maybe it was just a bad game for him.

[KCrockaholic]

That UCF clip doesn't look very good. Luke is always chasing the play or letting the play come to him. Seems slow in diagnosing most plays or maybe he just doesn't have the speed to get there. There were 2 plays where the ball carrier ran right by him. But maybe it was just a bad game for him.

That's just his style.

He has the sideline to sideline speed, but he's far from some kind of elite prospect. He's a guy that teams will attack in the NFL. As soon as a lineman gets his hands on Kuechly he gets turned around and he's done. If we're looking to replace Belcher, this isn't the guy to do it with.

But he's the best coverage ILB in this class. I'll give him that. Not that that says anything cause the ILB's as a group are fairly weak this year.

[Direckshun]

There are probably some LBs I'd take in coverage over Kuechly, but they'd all be like 215-225 lbs.

Kuechly is well over 240.

[Urc Burry]

His combine numbers are very similar to Derrick Johnson's coming out. Speed and athletic ability would not be an issue

[suds79]

There are probably some LBs I'd take in coverage over Kuechly, but they'd all be like 215-225 lbs.

Kuechly is well over 240.

Yep. And running the 3-4, I don't know if we can swing having a 215 or 225 ILB.

Yes I know we have Belcher who is on the lighter side. But I think Kuechly would be a nice upgrade.

[Direckshun]

Yep. And running the 3-4, I don't know if we can swing having a 215 or 225 ILB.

Yes I know we have Belcher who is on the lighter side. But I think Kuechly would be a nice upgrade.

I do too.

DE: Dorsey, Bailey
NT: ???, Gordon, Powe
DE: Jackson, Gordon

OLB: Hali, Sheffield
ILB: Kuechly, Belcher
ILB: Johnson, Siler
OLB: Houston, Studebaker

Help is still needed at that damned nose. Passrushing depth is a must.

[O.city]

Don't forget that Berry is a good blitz guy.

It would be amazing if for some reason Perry was to slip into the second and we got Kuechly AND Perry.

[MahiMike]

not that impressed really.

[O.city]

He is a tackling machine, very instinctive.

[Urc Burry]

I know we haven't showed any interest in the past, but we seem to be the only team linked to him. If we get A. Franklin in FA and then Kuechly in the 1st. Wow.. watch out, that might be the best defense in the league on paper.

[Direckshun]

I think it's pretty clear Franklin's a brokedick who apparently doesn't even fit our defense.

[ChiefMojo]

Kuechly is a read and react type ILB. To add on top of that, he didn't really have crap around him at BC. So in turn he was asked to pretty much free lance around making all the plays. Sometimes that even meant him getting the tackle a fair amount down the field. He wasn't able to attack the line of scrimmage as much as one would expect from someone his size/talent. The reason being was they couldn't have him committing to deep into the line of scrimmage only to lose him down the field for tackles. With the Chiefs he wouldn't have to worry about that. DJ is there to be more of the side line to side line type guy. That allows Kuechly to focus more on his general zone/area... also attack the line of scrimmage more as a thumper but still have the ability to go side line to side line (definite upgrade over Belcher).

[whoman69]

IMO those against this pick because we have Belcher are ignoring the fact that Belcher was on the field for more than 200 passing plays and he was worthless in those packages. Good run stopper, but Kuechly is a big upgrade in coverage.

[BigChiefFan]

IMO those against this pick because we have Belcher are ignoring the fact that Belcher was on the field for more than 200 passing plays and he was worthless in those packages. Good run stopper, but Kuechly is a big upgrade in coverage.I really like Belcher, but many are forgetting how we were constantly torched by TEs and Belcher played a part in that. Having an inside LBer who can cover, would improve our defense by leaps and bounds. I still prefer the NT, but there is no denying Kuechley would improve our pass coverage.


I don't think there's another ILber in the draft that can cover like Kuechly can, so I'd like to think he's at the top of our draft board and I think we'll give strong consideration to drafting him, if he should be there at 11.

[KCwolf]

This is who the Chiefs will be selecting come draft day.

[Hoover]

I would be excited if we selected him at 11.

For those who want to draft a playmaker, this is the pick.

[Direckshun]

Kuechly simply never reads a play wrong. Nobody diagnoses it faster on the field.

[HolmeZz]

Speaking as a Notre Dame fan, the guy was a pain in the ass to play against. I know it's almost cliche at this point, but it really did feel like he was in the middle of every play.

[ChiefMojo]

Charlie Casserly on Path to the Draft (NFLN) believes Kuechly may be the safest pick in the draft. With that said, they also thought the likes of Hightower and Brockers are safe picks also.

[beach tribe]

Yep. And running the 3-4, I don't know if we can swing having a 215 or 225 ILB.

Yes I know we have Belcher who is on the lighter side. But I think Kuechly would be a nice upgrade.

I'm pretty sure Belcher is bigger than his listed weight. If not he sure looks/plays as if it is.

[milkman]

I really like Belcher, but many are forgetting how we were constantly torched by TEs and Belcher played a part in that. Having an inside LBer who can cover, would improve our defense by leaps and bounds. I still prefer the NT, but there is no denying Kuechley would improve our pass coverage.


I don't think there's another ILber in the draft that can cover like Kuechly can, so I'd like to think he's at the top of our draft board and I think we'll give strong consideration to drafting him, if he should be there at 11.

You guys are so full of shit.

Constantly torched?

With Belcher on the field for 200+ passingplays last season, only 3 TEs had more than 70 yards in receiving in a game, Gronkowski, Gates, and Scott Chandler, and only one had more than 5 receptions (Chandler).

You guys, to retiterate, are full of shit.

[Direckshun]

Belcher is the mystery puzzle piece here.

If we do draft Kuechly, there is no reason for Belcher to be on the roster...

So hard to figure out what the Chiefs will do this year.

Where do you fall, milkman? Who's your pick at the #11 spot?

[Direckshun]

By the way, Belcher is fine and everything, but Kuechly has elite cover skills for a linebacker.

This was a guy who kept up with Streeter when BC played Miami. The guy can cover.

[RealSNR]

If we're not keeping Belcher and drafting Kuechly, then I'm actually not so sure we'd need to worry THAT much about ILB depth.

Demorrio's gone, (not that that's a bad thing) you can't trust Siler yet until you've at least seen him in OTAs, and Cory Greenwood is Cory Greenwood.

Is this a case where the Chiefs would try to take a guy from the logjam at OLB and move him inside? Between Andy Studebaker, Cam Sheffield, and Gabe Miller, they all seem to have a good nose for the ball. I'm thinking that actually might be our best option, rather than trusting a late round/rookie free agent with that last depth spot.

That is, of course, assuming some guy like Caleb Campbell on the roster doesn't come out of nowhere and shock the world with his play.

[milkman]

Belcher is the mystery puzzle piece here.

If we do draft Kuechly, there is no reason for Belcher to be on the roster...

So hard to figure out what the Chiefs will do this year.

Where do you fall, milkman? Who's your pick at the #11 spot?

I'll take Dre Kirpatrick, Mark Barron, or Melvin Ingram before any of the other guys discussed.

And yes, I'm aware of the arm length thing, but I would not take Ingram simply for pass rushing.

I take him because of his versatility.

He can do the same things for this defense that Mike Vrabel did for the Patriots in his prime.

[KCwolf]

You guys are so full of shit.

Constantly torched?

With Belcher on the field for 200+ passingplays last season, only 3 TEs had more than 70 yards in receiving in a game, Gronkowski, Gates, and Scott Chandler, and only one had more than 5 receptions (Chandler).

You guys, to retiterate, are full of shit.

Well..... Apparently Luke isn't the guy. So....how would you propose we draft?

[milkman]

By the way, Belcher is fine and everything, but Kuechly has elite cover skills for a linebacker.

This was a guy who kept up with Streeter when BC played Miami. The guy can cover.

There isn't a LB in this league that can cover the elite TEs, and Kuechly is not going to come in and be that guy.

Taking a LB for his cover skills is absolute moronacy at the top of the draft.

[beach tribe]

There isn't a LB in this league that can cover the elite TEs, and Kuechly is not going to come in and be that guy.

Taking a LB for his cover skills is absolute moronacy at the top of the draft.

Especially a guy who would be playing LILB for us. That said, I do think he would make a good thumper, just don't know if that's the best route for us to go, all things considered.

[Direckshun]

There isn't a LB in this league that can cover the elite TEs, and Kuechly is not going to come in and be that guy.

Taking a LB for his cover skills is absolute moronacy at the top of the draft.

I wouldn't take him for that. I'd take him because he's amazing at a shit ton of things, including that.

His coverage ability as a linebacker is about as good as I've ever seen from a 240 lbs linebacker.

Period.

[milkman]

Especially a guy who would be playing LILB for us. That said, I do think he would make a good thumper, just don't know if that's the best route for us to go, all things considered.

The thing is, the idea that he can be a thumper is a projection based in his size.

I would argue that a guy that hasn't shown he is a thumper has the desire to be a thumper.

It took DJ 5 years to finally get to a point that he plays a more physical game than the one he played in college.

[Direckshun]

The thing is, the idea that he can be a thumper is a projection based in his size.

I would argue that a guy that hasn't shown he is a thumper has the desire to be a thumper.

It took DJ 5 years to finally get to a point that he plays a more physical game than the one he played in college.

Kuechly sheds blocks EXTREMELY WELL.

I agree that there would be an adjustment period, but Boston College prospects are renowned for developing extremely well into pros.

[milkman]

I wouldn't take him for that. I'd take him because he's amazing at a shit ton of things, including that.

His coverage ability as a linebacker is about as good as I've ever seen from a 240 lbs linebacker.

Period.

The argument presented by almost everyone here is that he is an elite cover backer.

I'm not replacing a guy that I know is a thumper with a guy that people think can be a thumper becuase of size simply because he's an 'elite cover backer".

There is no such thing.

No LB can cover the elite TEs.

He is better at it than Belcher at this point, but the guys that can hurt you are the ones that no LB can cover.

[milkman]

Kuechly sheds blocks EXTREMELY WELL.

I agree that there would be an adjustment period, but Boston College prospects are renowned for developing extremely well into pros.

I am not taking a guy that could be a thumper to replace a guy I know is a thumper.

We can argue all night about it, and my position won't change.

[Direckshun]

I am not taking a guy that could be a thumper to replace a guy I know is a thumper.

We can argue all night about it, and my position won't change.

That's because you're an old fart who won't learn new tricks.

What do we ask thumpers to do?

Attack the line of scrimmage, slam the hole, shed blocks and rack up tackles in the box.

There is nothing to suggest Kuechly will be anything other than stellar in this role.

His ability to shed blocks are as good as anybody. He doesn't hit with authority, but he doesn't miss tackles either by going for the big hit. He will require less than a season's worth of development and be as good as anybody in the league by his second season.

He is a sure thing.

He's not necessarily who I'd take at 11, but he's a sure thing.

[milkman]

That's because you're an old fart who won't learn new tricks.

What do we ask thumpers to do?

Attack the line of scrimmage, slam the hole, shed blocks and rack up tackles in the box.

There is nothing to suggest Kuechly will be anything other than stellar in this role.

His ability to shed blocks are as good as anybody. He doesn't hit with authority, but he doesn't miss tackles either by going for the big hit. He will require less than a season's worth of development and be as good as anybody in the league by his second season.

He is a sure thing.

He's not necessarily who I'd take at 11, but he's a sure thing.

Aaron Curry was a sure thing.

[Bump]

I saw just as many bad plays as good plays on that first video.

[Chiefshrink]

Kuechly is a read and react type ILB. To add on top of that, he didn't really have crap around him at BC. So in turn he was asked to pretty much free lance around making all the plays. Sometimes that even meant him getting the tackle a fair amount down the field. He wasn't able to attack the line of scrimmage as much as one would expect from someone his size/talent. The reason being was they couldn't have him committing to deep into the line of scrimmage only to lose him down the field for tackles. With the Chiefs he wouldn't have to worry about that. DJ is there to be more of the side line to side line type guy. That allows Kuechly to focus more on his general zone/area... also attack the line of scrimmage more as a thumper but still have the ability to go side line to side line (definite upgrade over Belcher).

Thx !! I feel better now:)

[Bump]

with the way Romeo can coach guys up, it would probably be a good pick. But I think that Hightower is going to be the best LB out of this draft.

[Chiefs=Champions]

At this point my preferred 1st round would be:

1. Tannehill




2. Trade down
3. Kuechly
4. BPA- even if that's Floyd, another pass rushers etc..

[Viper400]

Might not matter anyway. Rumor is Rivera loves Kuechly and Carolina will draft him at 9.

[buddha]

That's because you're an old fart who won't learn new tricks.

What do we ask thumpers to do?

Attack the line of scrimmage, slam the hole, shed blocks and rack up tackles in the box.

There is nothing to suggest Kuechly will be anything other than stellar in this role.

His ability to shed blocks are as good as anybody. He doesn't hit with authority, but he doesn't miss tackles either by going for the big hit. He will require less than a season's worth of development and be as good as anybody in the league by his second season.

He is a sure thing.

He's not necessarily who I'd take at 11, but he's a sure thing.

He's a sure thing? Sure to do what exactly? You must be very easy to impress if you looked at that video and came up with, "sure thing!"

Kuechly is servicable...not dominant. If you're taking a LB at this point in the draft, he had better be dominant. We're the same team that passed on Patrick Willis. Think about it.

Belcher is good enough, and Kuechly won't be an improvement anytime soon, if ever.

I'd go offensive line, CB, or defensive line at that position if the right guys were there. If not, trade down and get more picks.

[kcbubb]

I really don't want to take an ILB or G with the available talent at #11. For once, I agree with Milkman. He's still a prick with his delivery. But he is right on this one. I would rather have Brockers than Barron because I think Lewis is a better solution than Dorsey respectively for their positions. But Barron is still a playmaker.

Ingram would probably be a better ILB than Kuechly for the thumper role. He's very athletic and physical. Obviously Ingram's best spot is OLB, rushing the passer.

[xztop12]

I'm starting to not even see a reason why he would be entertained as a possibility for our pick. Hes a 4-3 linebacker. I don't see where he fits into our scheme at all, whereas hightower is a 34 lb who can rush on passing downs

[Tribal Warfare]

with the way Romeo can coach guys up, it would probably be a good pick. But I think that Hightower is going to be the best LB out of this draft.

Hightower fits Romeo's scheme better.

[kcbubb]

I'm starting to not even see a reason why he would be entertained as a possibility for our pick. Hes a 4-3 linebacker. I don't see where he fits into our scheme at all, whereas hightower is a 34 lb who can rush on passing downs

I agree. I think he fits the 4-3 better. He might be considered for DJ's spot, but we already have DJ.

[Direckshun]

He's a sure thing? Sure to do what exactly? You must be very easy to impress if you looked at that video and came up with, "sure thing!"

Well, let's watch it together:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0jyoY1ildmg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

0:07: Play isn't even run to his side, so whatever. Eludes a block, stays on his feet.
0:14: Anticipates the slant, and fronts it well.
0:21: Stays with the slot and fronts it well.
0:30: He's mostly negated by a blocker, but appears to be spinning into the play should it continue.
0:35: Playing the 9-tech off the RT, and play isn't run to him. Darts into backfield to get in on the tackle.
0:43: Drops into shallow zone, doesn't get any safety help whatsoever, not remotely his fault -- two corners let him go.

(A theme you'll notice is that all of Kuechly's teammates suck.)

0:55: Plays to a draw with lineman... gets in on tackle.
1:02: Never bites on the misdirection, makes tackle.
1:12: Clowns a blocker and ends a broken play.
1:18: In the Mike backer position, holds up blocker and makes the play while being facemasked.

(Another theme you'll notice is that Kuechly slips or holds blockers very well.)

1:36: Bites on a trickplay. Otherwise, not his play to defend.
1:43: Plays the hot route but has plenty of juice to get outside and get in on the tackle.
1:51: Safeties caught sleeping. And the corner plays the short route rather than the long route.
2:01: Just basic zone defense here.
2:07: Plays the Urlacher role in coverage, then gets in on the tackle.
2:26: Does a good job shedding the pulling guard, but RB runs away from the block for some reason.
2:31: Reads the draw immediately, but his own teammate gets in his way.

I could go on and on and on.

Basically: a lot of perfect positioning, playing within himself, doing as much of a job as he can.

But no big hits. No sexy highlights.

Bah.

Football is an emotional sport to watch, but you can't build your team emotionally. If you want a player to give you an erection from some decapitation on SportsCenter, then you're not keeping your eyes out for all the other people who make plays like that work.

Kuechly is not a sexy pick, much like Mayo wasn't. He does his job perfectly, but because that job doesn't employ bone-crunching hits or tons of sacks, people dismiss it.

Building a football team is a smart man's job, and I think Kuechly's a smart pick.

Kuechly is servicable...not dominant. If you're taking a LB at this point in the draft, he had better be dominant.

If we take Kuechly, our linebackers will be dominant.

Hali-Kuechly-Johnson-Houston

What each person does in this corps enables the others to do their jobs even better.

Hali's abilities make Houston's job easier. Johnson's job makes Hali's job easier. Kuechly makes Johnson's job easier.

That's the whole point -- that's what the Right 53 is.

It's not necessarily getting the best players with the best highlights.

It's about getting the players that fit and make everybody else's job exponentially easier.

[O.city]

It could be said that with Kuechly and Chapman, along with some depth on the back end, the defense is set for 5 or 6 years potentially.


Thats pretty cool.

[Urc Burry]

The guy is NEVER out of position. He is everything you look for in a prospect. Smart, great leader, etc. He is not your ideal "thumper" but Romeo is a genius, and can adjust.. like he did with Justin Houston.

And as for the people defending Belcher, I do like the guy. Got more then we could of asked for as an UDFA, but outside of NT he is the weak link on this defense. We have gotten to the point where we are improving players who have gotten it done for us in the past. This isn't 2010 anymore.

[BossChief]

Here is Belchers job:

Get lined up where you can best perform your duties pre snap depending on the offensive formation

Read the "keys" of the offensive formation/motion to try and narrow down what will happen the moment the ball is snapped. This is done by reading the guards, usually. It is also where film study of your opponent pays dividends.

Diagnose run or pass as soon as possible and move accordingly..." false steps usually yeild big plays"

If it is run, immediately identify the pulling guard or where the full back is going and immediately attack that player with every ounce of your being. Making the tackle isn't the primary responsibility, it's "scraping" which is blowing up the lead block...this allows your teammates (most of the time DJ is next up and is expected to make the tackle) to make a play to make the tackle and do a better job of locating the ball to try and force a turnover. Once you "scrape" you try to shed the block and make the tackle.

That is where Belcher absolutely excells. The fact that DJ lead the team in tackles and Belcher was second is a direct result of a lot of really hard work.

I'd love to see a video of all of Belchers tackles because every one of them was the result of big time effort. Maybe even mores than any other player on defense.

If it is pass, identify your responsibilities and get good depth in your drop. Most of the time, this is where Belcher struggles a bit...he is still learning and misdiagnosed play action against well rounded teams and therefore didn't get sufficient depth on his drop and that left a pocket for quarterbacks to drop the ball into. I firmly believe this is coachable and that he has shown improvement from year to year.

Kuechly is a flier and a sound, form tackler that works well in space.

He isn't experienced in taking on pulling guards and lead blocks as his main responsibility.

Kuechly is a guy that can diagnose run or pass well, but "plays on his heels" and that's why even though he had almost 200 tackles, not very many of them were for loss and he forced 0 fumbles...but also didn't miss many tackles.

It essentially gives us two DJ type players at inside backer and nobody that is used to doing the dirty work while taking a guy COMPLETELY off the field that excels at those things at the NFL level.

In my opinion, he would make the least impact of any guy in the conversation for the 11 pick.

I see another Aaron Curry a lot more than I see the next Urlacher or RayRay.

IMO the best pick for us if we stay at 11 is Mark Barron.

He is a "dual threat" defender that has elite potential and how better to combat the increasing usage of the passing game than another elite prospect that would upgrade all packages on defense in both coverage and run support.

With our pass rush, ability to stop the run and force more passing situations and adding a guy like Barron to an already very good secondary...we could probably have a long run of games without a 300 yard passer while being one of the leading teams in terms of sacks and interceptions.

It would also be a great counter move to Denver adding Manning and SD having Rivers.

Simply put, if we aren't moving up for Tannehill Mark Barron should be the pick.

[xztop12]

Not sure why you're so sold on Barron. It's not even a given that Barron would start for us.
\
Keep in mind that as our offense improves our D will regress because teams will have to score(so the D was probably not as good as the stats indicate.)

Decastro.

Trade back and get hightower.

Brockers if we grade him out as a potential 3rd down pass rusher.

[Direckshun]

Here is Belchers job:

Get lined up where you can best perform your duties pre snap depending on the offensive formation

Read the "keys" of the offensive formation/motion to try and narrow down what will happen the moment the ball is snapped. This is done by reading the guards, usually. It is also where film study of your opponent pays dividends.

Diagnose run or pass as soon as possible and move accordingly..." false steps usually yeild big plays"

If it is run, immediately identify the pulling guard or where the full back is going and immediately attack that player with every ounce of your being. Making the tackle isn't the primary responsibility, it's "scraping" which is blowing up the lead block...this allows your teammates (most of the time DJ is next up and is expected to make the tackle) to make a play to make the tackle and do a better job of locating the ball to try and force a turnover. Once you "scrape" you try to shed the block and make the tackle.

That is where Belcher absolutely excells. The fact that DJ lead the team in tackles and Belcher was second is a direct result of a lot of really hard work.

I'd love to see a video of all of Belchers tackles because every one of them was the result of big time effort. Maybe even mores than any other player on defense.

Belcher's tackles aren't the only place his impact is felt. More often then not he's blowing up the fullback or lead blocker to free up somebody else to make the play.

If it is pass, identify your responsibilities and get good depth in your drop. Most of the time, this is where Belcher struggles a bit...he is still learning and misdiagnosed play action against well rounded teams and therefore didn't get sufficient depth on his drop and that left a pocket for quarterbacks to drop the ball into. I firmly believe this is coachable and that he has shown improvement from year to year.

Agreed.

Kuechly is a flier and a sound, form tackler that works well in space.

He isn't experienced in taking on pulling guards and lead blocks as his main responsibility.

Kuechly is a guy that can diagnose run or pass well, but "plays on his heels" and that's why even though he had almost 200 tackles, not very many of them were for loss and he forced 0 fumbles...but also didn't miss many tackles.

He doesn't diagnose well, he's damn near peerless at it.

His style of play in the two-gap 3-4 as a mike backer would be different than the Urlacher role Boston College asked him to play. So a bunch of the "playing on his heels" stuff will fade after a year of him adjusting to our system. And he'll adjust very quickly.

All the tape of him taking on blockers shows him as adept at shedding blocks as any linebacker on the Chiefs roster.

It essentially gives us two DJ type players at inside backer and nobody that is used to doing the dirty work while taking a guy COMPLETELY off the field that excels at those things at the NFL level.

He did nothing but dirty work for Boston College. He had to be the whole defense and cover the entire middle of the field. It was a sucky gig, and he did it with aplomb.

In my opinion, he would make the least impact of any guy in the conversation for the 11 pick.

I don't disagree -- though I'd say Brockers would be the lowest impact. (Excepting Poe.)

I see another Aaron Curry a lot more than I see the next Urlacher or RayRay.

I see neither -- I see a Jerrod Mayo clone.

IMO the best pick for us if we stay at 11 is Mark Barron.

He is a "dual threat" defender that has elite potential and how better to combat the increasing usage of the passing game than another elite prospect that would upgrade all packages on defense in both coverage and run support.

With our pass rush, ability to stop the run and force more passing situations and adding a guy like Barron to an already very good secondary...we could probably have a long run of games without a 300 yard passer while being one of the leading teams in terms of sacks and interceptions.

It would also be a great counter move to Denver adding Manning and SD having Rivers.

Simply put, if we aren't moving up for Tannehill Mark Barron should be the pick.

Barron won't be the pick at 11.

He might be the pick if we trade down 12 spots though, and he's still on the board.

[Direckshun]

Not sure why you're so sold on Barron. It's not even a given that Barron would start for us.
\
Keep in mind that as our offense improves our D will regress because teams will have to score(so the D was probably not as good as the stats indicate.)

Decastro.

Trade back and get hightower.

Brockers if we grade him out as a potential 3rd down pass rusher.

lol @ Brockers being any kind of passrusher

Hightower makes absolutely zero sense -- he's the exact same player as Belcher.

[Halfcan]

looks like it would be a great pick I am sure he score higher than 4 on his scores as well-llol

[Tribal Warfare]

lol @ Brockers being any kind of passrusher

Hightower makes absolutely zero sense -- he's the exact same player as Belcher.

He'd be our Levon Kirkland, and Dont'a's talent dwarfs Belcher's in aces.

[whoman69]

If we are moving up for Tannehill, Barron won't be available because we lost his pick and quite possibly our next 2 picks. A qb that nees seasoning. At 11 I believe Keuchly is a good call. BPA, Not a NT, or Gaurd, becuase those players aren't there at 11.

All that much more reason not to move up for a questionable talent.

[Saccopoo]

He'd be our Levon Kirkland, and Dont'a's talent dwarfs Belcher's in aces.

No it doesn't.

Belcher is ascending and is a very solid middle linebacker for this defense. Hightower doesn't bring anything that Belcher already offers.

I can understand Kuechly due to his athleticism and instincts. Having two DJ's isn't a bad thing, especially considering that we are playing Manning and Rivers twice a season.

However, picking a guy like Hightower doesn't give you anything over what Jovan Belcher is currently giving you, minus the two years of NFL experience in this system.

Belcher is a very solid middle linebacker. He brings the lumber on the run and has the experience in the NFL to play the pass effectively.

Hightower would be a monumental waste for this team.

[Tribal Warfare]

No it doesn't.

Belcher is ascending and is a very solid middle linebacker for this defense. Hightower doesn't bring anything that Belcher already offers.



and Hightower could be an all-pro at the very same position opposite DJ, instead of being "solid"

[Saccopoo]

and Hightower could be an all-pro at the very same position opposite DJ, instead of being "solid"

"Could be" is the operative phrase. Hightower is a two-down guy in this system who doesn't bring anything more to the table than Belcher other than less experience.

He's a nice player, but he will struggle to operate out in space at the next level. Hightower only has 4 sacks for his entire career at Alabama and two interceptions. He's a pure two-down thumper at this point.

If he's there in the second, I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs picking him, but, again, I think it's a bit of a redundant selection as he is essentially the same player as Belcher minus the NFL level on-field experience that Jovan has.

People might not know it, but Belcher is high level athlete. He was a three time All-American wrestler in high school and played OLB and defensive end for Maine. (He had 17.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks as a senior.) He was a two-time first team FCS All-American and Colonial league Defensive Player of the Year in 2008. (The Chiefs absolutely stole him as a UDFA in 2009.)

He weighed in a 243 on his Pro Day and was 255 to start the season last year. (Still can't figure out why the Chiefs keep listing him at 228 on the team site.) Belcher's pro day numbers are nearly identical to Hightowers:

Belcher:
6' 1 3/8"
243 lbs.
40: 4.8
Vert: 30"
Broad: 9'0"
20 ss: 4.25
3 Cone: 7.07
Bench: 19

Hightower:
6' 2 1/4"
265 lbs.
40: 4.68
Vert: 32"
Broad: 9'9"
20 ss: 4.64
3 Cone: 7.55
Bench: DNP

Most people recognize Belcher as very good Mike backer and he's gotten substantially better each of the past two seasons as he's adjusted to the NFL level. He's still ascending and only should get better this next season.

[Tribal Warfare]

"Could be" is the operative phrase. Hightower is a two-down guy in this system who doesn't bring anything more to the table than Belcher other than less experience.

He's a nice player, but he will struggle to operate out in space at the next level. Hightower only has 4 sacks for his entire career at Alabama and two interceptions. He's a pure two-down thumper at this point.

If he's there in the second, I wouldn't have a problem with the Chiefs picking him, but, again, I think it's a bit of a redundant selection as he is essentially the same player as Belcher minus the NFL level on-field experience that Jovan has.

People might not know it, but Belcher is high level athlete. He was a three time All-American wrestler in high school and played OLB and defensive end for Maine. (He had 17.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks as a senior.) He was a two-time first team FCS All-American and Colonial league Defensive Player of the Year in 2008. (The Chiefs absolutely stole him as a UDFA in 2009.)

He weighed in a 243 on his Pro Day and was 255 to start the season last year. (Still can't figure out why the Chiefs keep listing him at 228 on the team site.) Belcher's pro day numbers are nearly identical to Hightowers:

Belcher:
6' 1 3/8"
243 lbs.
40: 4.8
Vert: 30"
Broad: 9'0"
20 ss: 4.25
3 Cone: 7.07
Bench: 19

Hightower:
6' 2 1/4"
265 lbs.
40: 4.68
Vert: 32"
Broad: 9'9"
20 ss: 4.64
3 Cone: 7.55
Bench: DNP

Most people recognize Belcher as very good Mike backer and he's gotten substantially better each of the past two seasons as he's adjusted to the NFL level. He's still ascending and only should get better this next season.

Of course Hightower ceiling isn't of a solid roleplayer if he maxes out his potential he would be Kirkland, Belcher had problems shedding blocks and maintaining his gap, Hightower on the other hand is a hoss.

[Saccopoo]

Of course Hightower ceiling isn't of a solid roleplayer if he maxes out his potential he would be Kirkland, Belcher had problems shedding blocks and maintaining his gap, Hightower on the other hand is a hoss.

I think he is as well, but one needs to consider that Belcher is going to start the 2012 season with only two real years of starting experience at the MLB spot after playing the edge at the college level. (In high school he played about every position on the team.)

It's why there was a big jump from his on the field performance from 2009 to2010 to 2011 and why he's still got room for growth in his game. Belcher is a very solid MLB right now and is only getting better.

I like Dont'a a lot, but to pick up a Mike backer with the 11th pick and already having a very good player at that position, it's not the best value for this team. One of those guys is going to end up a backup and that's not really the best thing for this team for the 11th pick - a backup Mike backer.

I love Kuechly and really like Hightower, but with Johnson finally putting it together on a consistent basis and Belcher being an ascending player who is already considered very good for his position, I just don't see this team burning an 11th pick on a ILB.

[Tribal Warfare]

I think he is as well, but one needs to consider that Belcher is going to start the 2012 season with only two real years of starting experience at the MLB spot after playing the edge at the college level. (In high school he played about every position on the team.)

It's why there was a big jump from his on the field performance from 2009 to2010 to 2011 and why he's still got room for growth in his game. Belcher is a very solid MLB right now and is only getting better.

I like Dont'a a lot, but to pick up a Mike backer with the 11th pick and already having a very good player at that position, it's not the best value for this team. One of those guys is going to end up a backup and that's not really the best thing for this team for the 11th pick - a backup Mike backer.

I love Kuechly and really like Hightower, but with Johnson finally putting it together on a consistent basis and Belcher being an ascending player who is already considered very good for his position, I just don't see this team burning an 11th pick on a ILB.


Belcher is solid not good, and I have doubts on Keuchly maintaining strength/size to take up guards , the guy is only 237 and is built like DJ who doesn't have the same responsibilities.

[whoman69]

Hightower fits Romeo's scheme better.

I don't see how. He has no man skills, only zone in coverage. Its not all about stopping the run.

[milkman]

Belcher is solid not good, and I have doubts on Keuchly maintaining strength/size to take up guards , the guy is only 237 and is built like DJ who doesn't have the same responsibilities.

Belcher is good.

He's turning into an outstanding player at his position.

He's not shedding blockers, he's blowing them up.

[Tribal Warfare]

I don't see how. He has no man skills, only zone in coverage. Its not all about stopping the run.

our rush defense was giving up 4.2 yards per run, KC needing major improvement in that area. as some have said before if Luke was playing DJ's position sure great pick, but we need a run stopping monster on the other side of him and the Chiefs have an excellent pass defense anyway with Berry returning and Houston and Hali tearing shit up.

[whoman69]

our rush defense was giving up 4.2 yards per run, LC needing major improvement in that area. as some have said before if Luke was playing DJ's position sure great pick, but we need a run stopping monster on the other side of him and the Chiefs have an excellent pass defense anyway with Berry returning and Houston and Hali tearing shit up.

Belcher is still weak man on pass plays. If this was like 1890s baseball and we could ask them pass or run play, Belcher might not be a liability on half his downs.

[milkman]

Belcher is still weak man on pass plays. If this was like 1890s baseball and we could ask them pass or run play, Belcher might not be a liability on half his downs.

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a fucking myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

:clap: Sac and Milk. Well done men.

[Saccopoo]

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

This.

Belcher is hardly the liability against the pass that people around here are making him out to be. He's more than athletic enough to stay with most tight ends and the real problem with tight end coverage had to do with the safeties.

Belcher brings the lumber and has a good knack for finding the ball/sniffing out the play.

Drafting a Mike backer early would be a waste of a high pick at this point.

[whoman69]

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

[milkman]

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

I don't give a rat's ass if the TEs lined up on Belcher's side every time.

The numbers here don't ****ing lie.

The numbers tell us that anyone that says that the Chiefs were raped by TEs is a baldfaced liar or an idiot.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

4 passes defended in 3 seasons, 0 interceptions. Derrick Johnson had 9 PD just last year with 2 INT. Johnson also had 2 sacks to none for Belcher. Your stat is worthless if you don't tell us how many times those TEs lined up on Johnson's side and how many lined up on Belcher's side or if they instead had coverage on a back.

2 words...different roles.

[whoman69]

I don't give a rat's ass if the TEs lined up on Belcher's side every time.

The numbers here don't ****ing lie.

The numbers tell us that anyone that says that the Chiefs were raped by TEs is a baldfaced liar or an idiot.
Your stats would look better if it were fact that the TE lined up on Belcher's side every time but they didn't.

That's not the claim that was made anyway. The claim is that Belcher is invisible in pass coverage.

The numbers aren't so pristine as you claim anyway. All-Pro Scott Chandler caught 5 passes for 63 yards and 2 TD. Javid Best caught 4 passes in the underneath area usually covered by linebackers in week 2 and 1 TD. Backup TE Randy McMichael had 4 receptions in week 3. Visanthe Shiancoe was the Vikings top receiver with 6 catches against the Vikes. It was his season high. Anthony Fasano caught 2 TD passes. Gronkowski caught 4 balls for 2 TDs and nearly 100 yards, while Hernandez had another 4 catches.

Here is another stat. Belcher only made 16 tackles on running plays. Not only is he not defending passes, he's not even close enough to the play to make a tackle. He was on the field more than 200 pass plays last year. He can't rush the passer, can't defend the pass and isn't close to making plays once a pass is caught. Tell me again how he isn't invisible in pass coverage.

[milkman]

Your stats would look better if it were fact that the TE lined up on Belcher's side every time but they didn't.

That's not the claim that was made anyway. The claim is that Belcher is invisible in pass coverage.

The numbers aren't so pristine as you claim anyway. All-Pro Scott Chandler caught 5 passes for 63 yards and 2 TD. Javid Best caught 4 passes in the underneath area usually covered by linebackers in week 2 and 1 TD. Backup TE Randy McMichael had 4 receptions in week 3. Visanthe Shiancoe was the Vikings top receiver with 6 catches against the Vikes. It was his season high. Anthony Fasano caught 2 TD passes. Gronkowski caught 4 balls for 2 TDs and nearly 100 yards, while Hernandez had another 4 catches.

Here is another stat. Belcher only made 16 tackles on running plays. Not only is he not defending passes, he's not even close enough to the play to make a tackle. He was on the field more than 200 pass plays last year. He can't rush the passer, can't defend the pass and isn't close to making plays once a pass is caught. Tell me again how he isn't invisible in pass coverage.

You're the guy that is making the claim that Belcher is terrible in coverage.

You tell me, how many of those passes to TEs did he give up?

Just a rough guess will do.

[whoman69]

You're the guy that is making the claim that Belcher is terrible in coverage.

You tell me, how many of those passes to TEs did he give up?

Just a rough guess will do.

Linebackers cover more than just tight ends. If Belcher is in there for base defense (which is mostly what he is in) he could be on a TE, HB or FB depending on the offensive formation. He was on the field for 45% of pass plays, had one pass defended, no INTs, no sacks and 16 tackles. That's invisible. Let's come up with a number (probably low) and say that the receivers that Belcher was assigned to cover got 3 catches a game. He knocked down one pass and was only close enough to his guy to get a tackle 16 times when his area should be middle of the field. That tells me he was in such bad coverage that he couldn't even get to the man to get a tackle two thirds of the time on short passes. You've got DJ on the other side of the field, expected to cover the other half short and his numbers blow Belcher away.

[milkman]

Linebackers cover more than just tight ends. If Belcher is in there for base defense (which is mostly what he is in) he could be on a TE, HB or FB depending on the offensive formation. He was on the field for 45% of pass plays, had one pass defended, no INTs, no sacks and 16 tackles. That's invisible. Let's come up with a number (probably low) and say that the receivers that Belcher was assigned to cover got 3 catches a game. He knocked down one pass and was only close enough to his guy to get a tackle 16 times when his area should be middle of the field. That tells me he was in such bad coverage that he couldn't even get to the man to get a tackle two thirds of the time on short passes. You've got DJ on the other side of the field, expected to cover the other half short and his numbers blow Belcher away.

So, according to you, Belcher had 16 tackles in the passing game, and elswhere you stated he had 6 tackle in the running game, yet he was the team's second leading tackler.

Holy shit, our defense was awful last year.

[whoman69]

So, according to you, Belcher had 16 tackles in the passing game, and elswhere you stated he had 6 tackle in the running game, yet he was the team's second leading tackler.

Holy shit, our defense was awful last year.

Must be confusing me with someone else. With 61 tackles he averaged just under 4 tackles a game.

[milkman]

Must be confusing me with someone else. With 61 tackles he averaged just under 4 tackles a game.

How many tackled did DJ have?

[O.city]

I don't wanna read thru the whole thread, Milk what do you not like about Kuechly?

[milkman]

I don't wanna read thru the whole thread, Milk what do you not like about Kuechly?

He's being projected as a thumper by some here when he has provided no evidence that he will be.

[O.city]

He's being projected as a thumper by some here when he has provided no evidence that he will be.

I can see that.


I think he could do it, but you are correct in that he's never been asked to do that.

[whoman69]

How many tackled did DJ have?

104, don't ask for the run/pass split. That takes a long time looking at game logs.

[milkman]

104, don't ask for the run/pass split. That takes a long time looking at game logs.

I actually looked up the numbers and wanted to find out if you would be consistent.

[O.city]

Greg Cosell is the Executive producer of NFL Matchup, Senior Producer NFL Films for 33 years, Co-author of The Games That Changed The Game. He does alot of stuff on twitter about prospects. Here were his thoughts on Kuechly.



·Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
More I watched Kuechly more I liked him. Plus athleticism. Great play recognition. Played with eyes better than any LB I've evaluated.

Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Kuechly at times ran down teh seam with TE in coverage. Better athlete on tape than I was led to believe. Terrific closing speed in run game


Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Think Kuechly could play 4-3 OLB or 3-4 ILB. Scheme + position versatile. Many might disagree but I feel better prospect than Hawk(5th-2006)

Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
What surprised me w/Kuechly was athleticism + movement. Is he quick twitch, dynamically explosive? No but played fast w/urgent reaction time



Don't agree or disagree, just thought it was interesting.

[milkman]

Greg Cosell is the Executive producer of NFL Matchup, Senior Producer NFL Films for 33 years, Co-author of The Games That Changed The Game. He does alot of stuff on twitter about prospects. Here were his thoughts on Kuechly.



·Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
More I watched Kuechly more I liked him. Plus athleticism. Great play recognition. Played with eyes better than any LB I've evaluated.

Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Kuechly at times ran down teh seam with TE in coverage. Better athlete on tape than I was led to believe. Terrific closing speed in run game


Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Think Kuechly could play 4-3 OLB or 3-4 ILB. Scheme + position versatile. Many might disagree but I feel better prospect than Hawk(5th-2006)

Greg Cosell ‏ @gregcosell Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
What surprised me w/Kuechly was athleticism + movement. Is he quick twitch, dynamically explosive? No but played fast w/urgent reaction time



Don't agree or disagree, just thought it was interesting.

I can't say I disagree with any of that, but other than the fact that Kuechly is better at this stage in his playing career at shedding blocks, that sounds a lot like DJ, which is what I've said from the beginning of these debates.

[O.city]

I think Hightower is more suited to be a thumper. I think Kuechly is alot more athletic.


I don't really know what to think.

[Bewbies]

The debate here around Kuechly reminds me a lot of Curry. Supreme athlete that people projected him (here) doing for us what he didn't do in college.

[O.city]

Kuechly is big enough to be a thumper, I just don't know that he can do it. I think he's smart enough and skilled enough.

[Bewbies]

Kuechly is big enough to be a thumper, I just don't know that he can do it. I think he's smart enough and skilled enough.

And Curry was fast enough to rush the passer it is just that his coach didn't ask him to.

[Urc Burry]

DJ isn't getting any younger. Will be 30 this year. I know it's not even close to consider finding a replacement, but Kuechly could slide right over when the time is right.

[Direckshun]

And Curry was fast enough to rush the passer it is just that his coach didn't ask him to.

Apples.

Oranges.

You're teh stupid.

[Bewbies]

Apples.

Oranges.

You're teh stupid.

Stupid, yes. I'm talking about the debate not the player.

[milkman]

Apples.

Oranges.

You're teh stupid.

He's not comparing players, dipshit.

[Direckshun]

He's not comparing players, dipshit.

If you're trying to say that an argument that applied to one player could apply to another player, you're comparing players.

Unless there's some other ethereal argument that's transcended the mortal world that he's trying to make.

[milkman]

If you're trying to say that an argument that applied to one player could apply to another player, you're comparing players.

Unless there's some other ethereal argument that's transcended the mortal world that he's trying to make.

JFC, how do some of you people even find the brain cells to crawl your dumb asses out of bed in the morning?

In 2009, it was argued by Curry supporters that Curry hd the talent to rush the passer, but that he was not asked to do that in college.

Those of us that argued against Curry said that his play on the field did not support that argument, and that you were simply projecting.

The argument today by Kuechly supporters is that he has the talent to be a thumper.

Those of us arguing against Kuechly are telling you that his play on the field does not support that argument, and that you are simply projecting.

The players are not being compared.

The arguments are being compared.

[jspchief]

What is this conviction that one of our ILBs has to be a "thumper"?

Kuechly is likely and upgrade at the position in every possible way, except for this "thumping" concept.

Am I supposed to believe that the team wouldn't benefit from an ILB with better athleticism and awareness because he doesn't crash into plays with reckless abandon?

For every play that depends on Belcher's ability to "thump", how many plays weren't made for his inability to do the things Kuechly can?

If you want to argue positional value of ILB at 11, fine. But to dismiss upgrading one of the few spots on our D simply because the.LB doesn't play like a fucking FB is stupid.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Doesnt this guy pretty play the same exact position that DJ plays?

[Chiefnj2]

Yet, not a single TE had more than 100 yards receiving, and only 1 TE had more than 6 catches.

But he's terrible in pass coverage.

It's a ****ing myth being perpetuated by dumbasses.

So you want to bring back Sabby and McGraw since they did such a good job limiting TE's on passing downs?

[Chief Roundup]

Why is there always people trying to turn a square peg into a doll rod.

[milkman]

What is this conviction that one of our ILBs has to be a "thumper"?

Kuechly is likely and upgrade at the position in every possible way, except for this "thumping" concept.

Am I supposed to believe that the team wouldn't benefit from an ILB with better athleticism and awareness because he doesn't crash into plays with reckless abandon?

For every play that depends on Belcher's ability to "thump", how many plays weren't made for his inability to do the things Kuechly can?

If you want to argue positional value of ILB at 11, fine. But to dismiss upgrading one of the few spots on our D simply because the.LB doesn't play like a ****ing FB is stupid.

My argument has been that Belcher is an ascending player, and that he is improving in every aspect.

And yes, you do need a thumper.

He was taking out blockers, allowing DJ to make a number of plays.

[milkman]

So you want to bring back Sabby and McGraw since they did such a good job limiting TE's on passing downs?

You're the dumbass that keeps assigning blame for TEs raping our defense, which is a fucking joke.

[Micjones]

My argument has been that Belcher is an ascending player, and that he is improving in every aspect.

And yes, you do need a thumper.

He was taking out blockers, allowing DJ to make a number of plays.

Can't understand why everyone is so quick to want to replace Belcher.
I think he's improved and is playing very good football.

[ChiefMojo]

Mike Mayock just said on Path to the Draft tonight that Luke Kuechly is not only the cleanest player (no red flags) in this years draft but is the best zone drop back pass coverage ILB he has ever seen on tape. Says he is the very rare ILB that is a three down player that will succeed in pass coverage. Only real weakness is he can be covered up by some OL along the line of scrimmage.

Rates Kuechly his #6 overall prospect.

[Tribal Warfare]

Mike Mayock just said on Path to the Draft tonight that Luke Kuechly is not only the cleanest player (no red flags) in this years draft but is the best zone drop back pass coverage ILB he has ever seen on tape. Says he is the very rare ILB that is a three down player that will succeed in pass coverage. Only real weakness is he can be covered up by some OL along the line of scrimmage.

Rates Kuechly his #6 overall prospect.

Hence, why Hightower would fit better here

[ChiefMojo]

Mayock was basically splitting hairs. He stated Kuechly one possible weakness is the possibility to be covered up at times along the line of scrimmage but he still makes the tackles. He wins the battle more times than not. The rest of his game is top notch. You don't make over 300 tackles in your career if your getting killed along the line of scrimmage that often.

[jspchief]

Can't understand why everyone is so quick to want to replace Belcher.
I think he's improved and is playing very good football.

Belcher is a FA next year.

His spot is also one of the few on the defense that also could be considered for upgrade based on the guys that will be there at #11.

It's not so much wanting Belcher gone as it is recognizing that Kuechly has a higher ceiling. I don't think anyone will be pissed if Belcher is our ILB, but like Kendrick Lewis, he's a guy that could be replaced with one of the available players when we draft in round 1.

[Micjones]

Belcher is a FA next year.

His spot is also one of the few on the defense that also could be considered for upgrade based on the guys that will be there at #11.

It's not so much wanting Belcher gone as it is recognizing that Kuechly has a higher ceiling. I don't think anyone will be pissed if Belcher is our ILB, but like Kendrick Lewis, he's a guy that could be replaced with one of the available players when we draft in round 1.

I don't mind upgrading positions, but I think we should address those where we have no clear answers first.

I also don't think Belcher will be hard to re-sign.
He hasn't exactly been a world beater.

I won't kick the cat if we draft him, he's a hell of a football player, I'd rather have DeCastro or Tannehill though.

[Tribal Warfare]

Mayock was basically splitting hairs. He stated Kuechly one possible weakness is the possibility to be covered up at times along the line of scrimmage but he still makes the tackles. He wins the battle more times than not. The rest of his game is top notch. You don't make over 300 tackles in your career if your getting killed along the line of scrimmage that often.

If Kuechly can gain and maintain 10 to 15 pounds to play in the box( strength purposes) then I'm cool with him.

[buddha]

Have you guys watched just the first minute or so of the Clemson video linked in this thread? This LB waits for the TE to run past him before he turns his hips and starts to move? WTF is that? That's the best Mayock has seen recently? Check out he run support. He isn't aggressive...he runs along with the pack, making some tackles and not making others. He isn't impressive. Watch the video and tell me what you see?

[Bewbies]

Have you guys watched just the first minute or so of the Clemson video linked in this thread? This LB waits for the TE to run past him before he turns his hips and starts to move? WTF is that? That's the best Mayock has seen recently? Check out he run support. He isn't aggressive...he runs along with the pack, making some tackles and not making others. He isn't impressive. Watch the video and tell me what you see?

I would pass on a player based on one play too.

[buddha]

I would pass on a player based on one play too.

YOU probably would. Did you get dropped on your head a lot as a child?

[whoman69]

I would pass on a player based on one play too.

And that's why nobody respects your opinions.

[Molitoth]

I'd be perfectly happy with the Chiefs selecting Kuechly.

[Bewbies]

And that's why nobody respects your opinions.

A gentleman and a scholar.

[ChiefsFan909]

What's Up KC!!!

I can't decide, do I want Poe or Kuechly? Kuechly or Poe?

Poe would be a huge upgrade at nose tackle where we do NOT have anyone up to his potential. A great nose makes the 3-4 so much better, this guy could be another Wilfork!

Adding Kuechly would be huge too. Playing him next to Johnson inside? Look out.

Anyway, I was checking a new mock, released today by the guys at sportsmasher posted a new mock today, and they went with Poe.

Here is the link, it's a great ad in depth mock!!!

SPORTSMASHER

[scho63]

ESPN's latest story says Kuechly is the surest pick on defense in the draft.

That's a bold statement

I wouldn't be mad at all if he wound up on the Chiefs

[Bewbies]

ESPN's latest story says Kuechly is the surest pick on defense in the draft.

That's a bold statement

I wouldn't be mad at all if he wound up on the Chiefs

I disagree. DeCastro has such command of the pre-snap stuff he's the surest pick ever.

[Chiefs=Champions]

What's Up KC!!!

I can't decide, do I want Poe or Kuechly? Kuechly or Poe?

Poe would be a huge upgrade at nose tackle where we do NOT have anyone up to his potential. A great nose makes the 3-4 so much better, this guy could be another Wilfork!

Adding Kuechly would be huge too. Playing him next to Johnson inside? Look out.

Anyway, I was checking a new mock, released today by the guys at sportsmasher posted a new mock today, and they went with Poe.

Here is the link, it's a great ad in depth mock!!!

SPORTSMASHER
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

[jspchief]

I disagree. DeCastro has such command of the pre-snap stuff he's the surest pick ever.

So you feel like DeCastro is the surest pick on defense? Intredasting.

[Dmello12]

Having the option of safest pick on offense or the safest pick on defense doesnt sound to bad to me. doesnt mean these guys will come out and tear up, but saying they'll be a good pro. Still say we trade back for hightower. but would rather have decastro over luke

[Bewbies]

So you feel like DeCastro is the surest pick on defense? Intredasting.

Who needs defense when you can get a LG so good you can design your offense around them?

[whoman69]

Who needs defense when you can get a LG so good you can design your offense around them?

Can you design an offense to avoid the hole we have in Lilja?

[Bewbies]

Can you design an offense to avoid the hole we have in Lilja?

Nope. No way we would ever make the playoffs or have the top rushing attack in the league with a bum like him at LG.

[ModSocks]

Nope. No way we would ever make the playoffs or have the top rushing attack in the league with a bum like him at LG.

lol

I think Lilja gets more shit around here than he deserves. He's not a great player, but jeez, he's not Barry Richardson either.

[Mr. Laz]

Can you design an offense to avoid the hole we have in Lilja?
:doh!:

[whoman69]

Nope. No way we would ever make the playoffs or have the top rushing attack in the league with a bum like him at LG.

So you're saying that we should stick with Cassel then? Lilja was horrid last year and physically manhandled. Some decline rapidly after 30. Not everybody is Jackie Slater. I hear excuses that he was trying to cover for a sub-par Weigmann. Weigmann was pretty good in 2010 as well. Its time to move on.

[O.city]

With the first round pick this year, you can sure up the lb core or the oline.


IMO you go Lb (if the choice is these two guys) in the first and grab Molk, a center, which we actually don't have, n the later rounds.

[Bewbies]

So you're saying that we should stick with Cassel then? Lilja was horrid last year and physically manhandled. Some decline rapidly after 30. Not everybody is Jackie Slater. I hear excuses that he was trying to cover for a sub-par Weigmann. Weigmann was pretty good in 2010 as well. Its time to move on.

Nope. I said we'd never make the playoffs or have the top rushing attack with Lilja. He needs to be replaced ASAP.

The only way we can create a winner in KC is to get DeCastro.

[beach tribe]

The debate here around Kuechly reminds me a lot of Curry. Supreme athlete that people projected him (here) doing for us what he didn't do in college.

I see Keuchly as way better than Curry. I truly believe him to be an instant pro-bowler, and ROTY candidate at any LB position other than 3-4 OLB.

[beach tribe]

Nope. I said we'd never make the playoffs or have the top rushing attack with Lilja. He needs to be replaced ASAP.

The only way we can create a winner in KC is to get DeCastro.

;) I C wut U did Thr

[beach tribe]

With the first round pick this year, you can sure up the lb core or the oline.


IMO you go Lb (if the choice is these two guys) in the first and grab Molk, a center, which we actually don't have, n the later rounds.

If we do grab one of the top flight C in this draft, which we could get later on, Hudson will be a huge upgrade at G IMO, and I would much rather us go that route than a G at 11.

[beach tribe]

lol

I think Lilja gets more shit around here than he deserves. He's not a great player, but jeez, he's not Barry Richardson either.

As i said in another thread, I think he's gonna play much better with a stronger C.

[O.city]

Lilja isn't a bad player by any means. But thats where we are as a team right now. We are in a good place in that we can start drafting the BPA to replace a guy who is just ok with a guy who can be great.

[Chiefshrink]

Who needs defense when you can get a LG so good you can design your offense around them?

We need Defense !! Now that Manning will be playing us twice we need to shore up our lack of pass rush(other than Hali) not to mention a helluva a lot more sacks other than just Hali !! Otherwise we will not win our division. It's bad enough we have to face Rivers 2x but now Manning 2x???

[Urc Burry]

According to PFF we ran the 2-3-6 second most in the NFL. A large part of that is because Belcher is so bad in coverage. Something to consider

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Do we really have someone slamming the D for giving up 4 catches to various players in the season? Four ROFL

[Urc Burry]

He only played on obvious running plays

[jspchief]

Imo kuechly's ceiling is Urlacher.

Belcher will be lucky to be Bart Scott.

[Bewbies]

I see Keuchly as way better than Curry. I truly believe him to be an instant pro-bowler, and ROTY candidate at any LB position other than 3-4 OLB.

I don't know about instant pro-bowler, but I do think Keuchly will be a helluva lot better than Curry was/is/never was.

[whoman69]

He only played on obvious running plays

Not true, he was in on over 200 pass plays because teams are increasingly throwing on 1st and 2nd downs and going with more 2 TE packages to copy the Patriots.

[Titty Meat]

My argument has been that Belcher is an ascending player, and that he is improving in every aspect.

And yes, you do need a thumper.

He was taking out blockers, allowing DJ to make a number of plays.

Care to explain Belchers overall negative grade given by PFF?

[milkman]

Care to explain Belchers overall negative grade given by PFF?

Pass coverage

Care to explain his huge improvement in that grade from 2010 to 2011?

[Titty Meat]

Pass coverage

Care to explain his huge improvement in that grade from 2010 to 2011?

Yeah he's not an every down player then.

Got a link?

[milkman]

Yeah he's not an every down player then.

Got a link?

It's been posted here.

Find it.

[milkman]

And, for the record, there are very few every down players on defense in today's game.

[Titty Meat]

And, for the record, there are very few every down players on defense in today's game.

But Kuechly could be one of those guys. I've cooled off on wanting to draft him in the first round. I think you overrate Belcher he's an average player, good against the run, sucks in coverage, and isn't a great blitzer at all. Yeah you can still be a good defense with him as a starter but it's not like you couldn't find a guy just as good if not better.

[ChiefMojo]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7797075/2012-nfl-draft-linebacker-luke-kuechly-tackles-every-challenge

[milkman]

But Kuechly could be one of those guys. I've cooled off on wanting to draft him in the first round. I think you overrate Belcher he's an average player, good against the run, sucks in coverage, and isn't a great blitzer at all. Yeah you can still be a good defense with him as a starter but it's not like you couldn't find a guy just as good if not better.

I've never argued that Belcher is a great pass defender.

I have argued that he brings a physical presence in the middle of the defense that teams need, and that Kuechly hasn't shown that he has that ability.

People have argued that his size would suggest that he would be able to bring that, but playing with the kind of abandon that brings that physical presence to the field has more to do with the mental aspect than it does with size.

I've also argued that he is improving as a pass defender, and even though he will almost certainly never be as good at as Kuechly, the fact is, there isn't a single LB in this league that can line up against the best TEs in this league and be successful, and Kuechly isn't going to be that guy.

[ChiefMojo]

Lets be honest here. There are many on here that love Kuechly and there are those like Milkman that don't really care for him.

I guess it depends what your looking for in a ILB. Are you just looking for a thumper that makes the big hit but lacks any pass coverage skills? Or are you looking for a production guy that "MAKES" the sure tackle, doesn't have durability issues, has a very high football IQ, excellent character/locker room guy and can play all three downs?

There is a reason many draft experts/ex-GM's think Kuechly may be the safest prospect in the draft.

[BossChief]

Kuechly is high floor, low ceiling.

Fuck that

Gimme an impact guy at 11, pz

[Bump]

he's the next Brian Urlacher, you know, because he's white. Draft him!

[Titty Meat]

Lets be honest here. There are many on here that love Kuechly and there are those like Milkman that don't really care for him.

I guess it depends what your looking for in a ILB. Are you just looking for a thumper that makes the big hit but lacks any pass coverage skills? Or are you looking for a production guy that "MAKES" the sure tackle, doesn't have durability issues, has a very high football IQ, excellent character/locker room guy and can play all three downs?

There is a reason many draft experts/ex-GM's think Kuechly may be the safest prospect in the draft.

Those guys are ex gm's for a reason :)

[O.city]

For what we need our other ILB to do, seems to me that Hightower fits the bill.

[buddha]

I see Keuchly as way better than Curry. I truly believe him to be an instant pro-bowler, and ROTY candidate at any LB position other than 3-4 OLB.

I'm assuming this is all bullshit and you're attempting irony.

O-city is right on Hightower. More thud...less dud.

[O.city]

I read somewhere, I think walter football, so grain of salt. He said that Bama moved Hightower around that he was very versatile in the lb spots. Said he was a good blitzer too.

[buddha]

Hightower is being overlooked, IMO. You knew where he was on the field anytime you watched Bama. He made great tackles and was a real enforcer. Straight up, he is the inside backer I'd love to see in KC.

[Chief Roundup]

Those guys are ex gm's for a reason :)

Yeah one of them is an ex because he drafted Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush.

[buddha]

Yeah one of them is an ex because he drafted Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush.

You'd take Bush over Williams straight up right now? I wouldn't.

[Titty Meat]

Yeah one of them is an ex because he drafted Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush.

No the guy is an ex gm because he won 18 games in 4 years.

[veist]

I read somewhere, I think walter football, so grain of salt. He said that Bama moved Hightower around that he was very versatile in the lb spots. Said he was a good blitzer too.

Saban said that about Hightower at the 'Bama Pro Day. I think people forget that before Hightower had that really nasty knee injury he was considered an athletic freak. And he's finally far enough removed from the injury that you're seeing that athleticism come back to the forefront. The big knocks on Hightower are going to be he had that horrific knee injury, stiff in the hips and lacks elite speed. The upsides is he's a big powerful guy, he's shown development as a pass rusher with a swim move and use of his hands to keep himself clean. Power to stack and shed blockers, good instincts playing inside etc. There is a lot there to like especially with him as a guy playing next to DJ where he's primarily going to be tasked with things that aren't man coverage.

[melbar]

Maybe I missed it, but have we even had a visit or talked to him yet? Just thought that was odd given all the talk...

[DJ's left nut]

If the Chiefs take a linebacker, Hightower is a far better fit for this team.

[BossChief]

If the Chiefs take a linebacker, Hightower is a far better fit for this team.

Agree 100%

[buddha]

If the Chiefs take a linebacker, Hightower is a far better fit for this team.

All day...every day. Hightower is going to be a star in the NFL.

[ChiefMojo]

This is what Greg Cossel said about his Chiefs pick Luke Kuechly...

11. Kansas City: The Chiefs under Romeo Crennel are quietly building an excellent defense. Focus on linebacker: It’s a very good group that features Tamba Hali and Justin Houston on the outside, and Derrick Johnson inside. You add Luke Kuechly to the mix, and you may well have the best 3-4 linebacking unit in the NFL. I’m tired of hearing about Kuechly’s average athleticism. I watched game after game after game and he played fast with urgent reaction speed. He played with his eyes better than any linebacker I can remember evaluating. His so-called inability to play physically? Watch the NFL as extensively as I do, and you’ll know that very few linebackers take on blocks. That’s a time-worn cliché that really has little practical application.

My Take: School has taken over my life, so I've been absent most of the offseason. That being said, I have done my research on a few guys, and I've finally set my heart on Kuechly. KC needs. Guard, but I think that can be had in RD2. Kuechly is a much needed piece for a Defense that will face 3 pass heavy teams, twice a year. Adding one more speed playmaker would go a long way to getting the defense from top 15 to top 5.

[BigChiefFan]

He's a better fit for the Seahags.

[veist]

He's a better fit for the Seahags.

He's a better fit for anyone looking to add a 4-3 linebacker.

[KChiefs1]

I'd be happy with this pick.

[Dmello12]

If the Chiefs take a linebacker, Hightower is a far better fit for this team.

yupppppp:thumb: wise words

[DJ's left nut]

Have I said in enough threads yet how much I would hate this pick?

I'm talking a McCluster level of hate.

[Saccopoo]

Have I said in enough threads yet how much I would hate this pick?

I'm talking a McCluster level of hate.

That's a little over the top, isn't it?

[veist]

That's a little over the top, isn't it?

No, I'd hate it more than McCluster.

[BossChief]

He just interviewed on ESPN radio and said he wants to play for the Bengals.

Only 4 teams interviewed him or worked him out.

The two he named were Cincy and NYG.

[dirk digler]

While I was driving today I was listening to 810 and KK and Boal said from what they have heard Kuechly is the pick.

Take it for what it is worth which may not be much...

[DJ's left nut]

While I was driving today I was listening to 810 and KK and Boal said from what they have heard Kuechly is the pick.

Take it for what it is worth which may not be much...

Makes sense - he pisses me off about 1/2 the time he does something.

So considering that I was pretty much elated with everything that happened in last years draft, I should prepare myself for some rage headaches this year.

[BossChief]

We bombed the 09 draft and days afterwards, we hired Phil Emery.

The next two drafts were extremely good.

Now that Emery isn't in the hizzy anymore, I hope we continue to draft as effectively as we have the last two years.

I have fears that we revert back to that 09 quality.

[DJ's left nut]

The 2010 draft has become overrated in the minds of Chiefs fans.

McCluster over Cody is an unforgivable abortion of a pick. Trading up for Moeaki when you could've had Graham or Hernandez was a mistake. Arenas was a major reach and I'm not impressed by getting a kick returner and nickle corner from a 2nd round pick.

Berry was a good pick...it was also a no-brainer. Asomoah was also a good pick.

Pioli has had 1 good draft in Kansas City. I still think he's an overrated hack that's living on a reputation built by Belichick and playmakers brought in by Herm.

We shall see. I'm starting to get a really awful feeling that he actually will draft Kuechly and the reason he didn't bring him in for a visit was it was all part of this cloak and dagger bullshit that he loves to pull.

Well the good news is that you and I could be united in our fury at that point...

[Urc Burry]

The 2010 draft has become overrated in the minds of Chiefs fans.

McCluster over Cody is an unforgivable abortion of a pick. Trading up for Moeaki when you could've had Graham or Hernandez was a mistake. Arenas was a major reach and I'm not impressed by getting a kick returner and nickle corner from a 2nd round pick.

Berry was a good pick...it was also a no-brainer. Asomoah was also a good pick.

Pioli has had 1 good draft in Kansas City. I still think he's an overrated hack that's living on a reputation built by Belichick and playmakers brought in by Herm.

We shall see. I'm starting to get a really awful feeling that he actually will draft Kuechly and the reason he didn't bring him in for a visit was it was all part of this cloak and dagger bullshit that he loves to pull.

Well the good news is that you and I could be united in our fury at that point...

Cody had major concerns coming out. Sure in hindsight it would of been a better pick. But if that was the case then we should of taken Gronk.

Moeaki > Hernandez, and Moeaki was a much better fit for our offense then Graham.

Javier is one of the best nickel corners in the game and was the third (I think) best punt returner last year. I am not going to complain about that pick.

2009 was a terrible draft period. Not a lot of teams nailed that draft.

The 2011 draft also looks like a hit. Pioli knows what he is doing when it comes to the draft and I believe we will have another solid one this year.

[Sorter]

The 2010 draft has become overrated in the minds of Chiefs fans.

McCluster over Cody is an unforgivable abortion of a pick. Trading up for Moeaki when you could've had Graham or Hernandez was a mistake. Arenas was a major reach and I'm not impressed by getting a kick returner and nickle corner from a 2nd round pick.

Berry was a good pick...it was also a no-brainer. Asomoah was also a good pick.

Pioli has had 1 good draft in Kansas City. I still think he's an overrated hack that's living on a reputation built by Belichick and playmakers brought in by Herm.

We shall see. I'm starting to get a really awful feeling that he actually will draft Kuechly and the reason he didn't bring him in for a visit was it was all part of this cloak and dagger bullshit that he loves to pull.

Well the good news is that you and I could be united in our fury at that point...

Don't think he's an overrated hack. Yes, he fucked up in taking Dex in the 2nd. However, Moeaki has the potential to be better than Hernandez. Not as elusive or versatile, but can block and is great when he doesn't have a torn ACL. Arenas is a top 5 PR and could use some blocking. Additionally, he is solid in the nickel. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, this is a passing league and most defenses are in their nickle or dime. So if you look at Pioli's drafts with his scouts + Emery, you have

Berry-Excellent
Dex-Probably a bust, but can be effective occasionally
Arenas- Solid nickel/great PR
Asamoah-Starter RG
Moeaki-Starter TE, high ceiling
Lewis-Starter FS, good centerfielder
Sheffield- sit. pass rusher, probably a bust due to injury
Baldwin- Solid pick drafted at position of need, flashed last year
Hudson- AA, solid pick, starter this year at C
Houston- Starter, great end to rookie season
Bailey- Situational pass rusher(2-3 downs), could be a starter
Brown- Hasn't flashed, mediocre on special teams
Stanzi- Nobody knows
Miller- Depth, meh
Powe- high ceiling, flashed in the NE game, drafted at PON
Bannon- Meh, 7th rd pick

[BossChief]

We signed Belcher mere days after we got Emery in 09, too.

[Mecca]

Kuechly is going to be attached to us because his attitude etc etc speak Patriot way, Pioli and all that. Oddly his athletic numbers are right there with Mayo's his draft year...

[Sorter]

We signed Belcher mere days after we got Emery in 09, too.

Yup. I'll admit, the lack of Emery has me worried as well. The guy has already looked good in CHI in getting Marshall e Bush. He does have to adapt to his defensive draft philosophy, but I think he is a solid enough evaluator that it will be fine.

[Mecca]

Who took Emery's spot?

[Sorter]

Kuechly is going to be attached to us because his attitude etc etc speak Patriot way, Pioli and all that. Oddly his athletic numbers are right there with Mayo's his draft year...

Mayo played in a 3-4 and plays DJ's position. Normally I would agree and think that Pioli was drafting Kuechly as a form of insurance for DJ, but with Brockers likely available, I doubt it. Kuechly would be great if DJ goes down with an injury or we decide to "groom him". Yes, he won't be an immediate starter/upgrade over Belcher but if DJ goes down, there is nobody to replace him. If we end up drafting Kuechly, that is Pioli's thinking IMO.

[Sorter]

Who took Emery's spot?

I haven't seen anything yet on it, I'll look though.

[Sorter]

On our website, there is no college of scouting diretor. It is probablyFarmer, Nagy e Green running the show with Pioli.

[ChiefsCountry]

Cody had major concerns coming out. Sure in hindsight it would of been a better pick.

Kind of hard to say it was hindsight when the whole board was screaming on draft day to take Cody or Jimmy Clausen in that draft.

[Mecca]

Mayo played in a 3-4 and plays DJ's position. Normally I would agree and think that Pioli was drafting Kuechly as a form of insurance for DJ, but with Brockers likely available, I doubt it. Kuechly would be great if DJ goes down with an injury or we decide to "groom him". Yes, he won't be an immediate starter/upgrade over Belcher but if DJ goes down, there is nobody to replace him. If we end up drafting Kuechly, that is Pioli's thinking IMO.

If we had a NT Kuechly could play with DJ...I think they're gonna take Brockers but the fact that taking a 5 tech in the first round again is ok speaks to what this front office has done to the fan base.

[Sorter]

If we had a NT Kuechly could play with DJ...I think they're gonna take Brockers but the fact that taking a 5 tech in the first round again is ok speaks to what this front office has done to the fan base.

To be fair, Pioli has only drafted 3 5-techs, and Magee is gone. There are plenty of teams that take 5-techs in the first round each year, I don't have a problem with that. However, the fact that we've drafted a #3, a 3rd, another 3rd, and now a 1st either seems like our scouting staff is a bunch of fucking idiots, or its an extreme position of need. I think it falls in-between. If we draft 2 DEs for a 3-4 this year, or another next year, then there is reason for concern. I agree with the NT idea, as an above avg NT makes your entire 3-4 better, especially if you somehow get lucky enough to draft one that can push the pocket ala Wilfork.

[Nightfyre]

McCluster over Cody is an unforgivable abortion of a pick. Trading up for Moeaki when you could've had Graham or Hernandez was a mistake. Arenas was a major reach and I'm not impressed by getting a kick returner and nickle corner from a 2nd round pick.


I suspect Pioli had the inside scoop on Cody from Saban. At least, I would think so.

[DJ's left nut]

I suspect Pioli had the inside scoop on Cody from Saban. At least, I would think so.

Well his inside scoop sucked. Cody's a hell of a ballplayer.

[suds79]

Well his inside scoop sucked. Cody's a hell of a ballplayer.

Yep no spinning that. That was a mistake. Period point blank.

[buddha]

The knock on Moeaki coming out of Iowa was his durability. That continues to be the question. He could be the most talented TE in the league, but if he can't stay on the field, it doesn't matter much. Some guys just seem to get injured much more than others...who knows why?

The Pioli draft record is still very much open.

[DJ's left nut]

The knock on Moeaki coming out of Iowa was his durability. That continues to be the question. He could be the most talented TE in the league, but if he can't stay on the field, it doesn't matter much. Some guys just seem to get injured much more than others...who knows why?

The Pioli draft record is still very much open.

That's always been my thing with Moeaki.

Nobody was pissed at that pick based on raw talent - everyone could easily look at the tapes and see that Moeaki was a hell of a player when he was on the field.

The concern was his ability to stay on the field.

Well low and behold, he's already suffered a major injury and missed a season.

If he drafts a 'healthy' player that gets hurt, he gets a pass on the pick. But Pioli drafted a guy we all knew was injury prone...and he got hurt. It's like drafting a guy with bad hands who proceeds to drop a bunch of passes. He is what he is.

Moeaki could prove us wrong and stay healthy for the next 3-4 years and justify the pick; but I wouldn't count on it.

I just don't see how the 2010 draft can be held out as a sterling example of Pioli's draft record. It was by no means a great draft.