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KCChiefsFan88
04-09-2012, 01:11 PM
A very revealing article about the collapse of the Florida Gators football program.

The bright side for UF fans is that Urban Meyers looks very bad in this mess:


From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-04-09/urban-meyer-florida-ohio-state-ncaa-violation-recruiting-drugs-program-will-musc?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a6

The uproar and controversy of Urban Meyer’s stunning recruiting coup at Ohio State settled in and Stefon Diggs, still on the Buckeyes' wish list, was debating his future.

Diggs, the second-highest rated wide receiver in the country, had narrowed his list of potential schools to Maryland, Florida and Ohio State. For more than a week following National Signing Day on Feb. 1, and before Diggs eventually signed with Maryland, Meyer relentlessly pursued Diggs.

Multiple sources told Sporting News that Meyer—who won two national championships in six years at Florida and cemented his legacy as one of the game’s greatest coaches—told the Diggs family that he wouldn’t let his son go to Florida because of significant character issues in the locker room.

Character issues that we now know were fueled by a culture Meyer created. Character issues that gutted what was four years earlier the most powerful program in college football.


It was Meyer who declared the Florida program “broken” at the end of his last regular season game in Gainesville in November of 2010. But why was it broken?

“Over the last two years he was there,” one former player said, “the players had taken complete control of the team.”

Only now, through interviews with multiple sources during a three-month Sporting News investigation, do we see just how damaged the infrastructure really was and how much repair work second-year coach Will Muschamp has had to undertake in replacing Meyer—who has moved on to Ohio State less than a year after resigning from Florida for health reasons.

Meyer denies allegations that he cast Florida and its players in a dark light when he spoke to the Diggs family, and said, “I love Florida; I’ll always be a Gator. My motives were pure as gold when I left. We left Florida because I was dealing with health issues that I’ve since learned how to control.”

But multiple former players and others close to the program say the timing of his departure was also tied to the roster he left behind. Remember it was Meyer who hinted the program that won 13 games in 2006, 2008 and 2009—and lost only 10 games from 2005-09—was flawed beyond the unsuspecting eye.

Now those issues have surfaced for all to see. Left in the wake of Meyer’s resignation were problems that can destroy a coaching career: drug use among players, a philosophy of preferential treatment for certain players, a sense of entitlement among all players and roster management by scholarship manipulation.

The coach who holds himself above the seedy underbelly of the game; who as an ESPN television analyst in 2011 publicly berated the ills of college football; left a program mired in the very things he has criticized.

“The program,” former Florida safety Bryan Thomas said, “was out of control.”

Ironically, Florida’s downfall began at the height of Meyer’s success—the 2008 national championship season. Three seasons of enabling and pandering to elite players—what Meyer’s players called his “Circle of Trust”—began to tear away at what he’d put together.

“I’ve never heard of Circle of Trust before in my life,” Meyer said.

Former players, though, contend it was the foundation of Florida’s culture under Meyer. In the season opener against Hawaii, Meyer said a few elite players (including wideout Percy Harvin, linebacker Brandon Spikes and tight end Aaron Hernandez) would miss the game with injuries. According to multiple sources, the three players—all critical factors in Florida’s rise under Meyer—failed drug tests for marijuana and were sitting out as part of standard university punishment.

By publicly stating the three were injured and not being disciplined, former players say, Meyer was creating a divide between the haves and have-nots on the team.

“They were running with us on the first team all week in practice,” one former player said. “The next thing you know, they’re on the sidelines with a (walking) boot for the season opener like they were injured. Of course players see that and respond to it.”

It was Harvin, more than anyone, who epitomized the climate Meyer created. While former players say Harvin always was treated differently as a member of Meyer’s Circle of Trust, it was the beginning of his sophomore season—after he helped lead the Gators to the 2006 national title—that it became blatant. That's also when it began to contribute negatively toward team chemistry.

During offseason conditioning before the 2007 season, the team was running stadium steps and at one point, Harvin, according to sources, sat down and refused to run. When confronted by strength and conditioning coaches, Harvin—who failed to return calls and texts to his cell phone to comment on this story—said, “This (expletive) ends now.”

“The next day,” a former player said, “we were playing basketball as conditioning.”

It only got worse as Harvin’s career progressed. At one point during the 2008 season, multiple sources confirmed that Harvin, now a prominent member of the Minnesota Vikings, physically attacked wide receivers coach Billy Gonzales, grabbing him by the neck and throwing him to the ground. Harvin had to be pulled off Gonzales by two assistant coaches—but was never disciplined.

When asked about the Harvin incident, Gonzales—now offensive coordinator at Illinois—said, “I think it’s a little overblown. I mean, every great player wants his voice to be heard.”

Said Meyer: “Something did happen and something was handled. I don’t think it’s fair to Percy Harvin or Billy Gonzales to talk about it.”

Gonzales left Florida for LSU—a lateral move—after the 2009 season, and did so by placing his keys, cell phone and resignation letter on Meyer’s desk. There were rumors that Gonzales resigned with a Post-it note on Meyer’s desk.

“I never left a Post-it note,” Gonzales said. “Urban and I have talked since. He’ll do great things at Ohio State.”

That is, unless he hasn’t learned from his time at Florida.

Even as the unprecedented success at Florida continued, a mounting number of players were dragging the Gators’ name down a path of drugs and destruction. At least 30 players were arrested in Meyer’s six seasons. Instances of substance abuse were often linked to his most prized athletes. NFL teams took notice.

Hernandez admitted to failing a drug test at Florida, a problem that cut his draft stock from first-round grade to fourth-round selection by the New England Patriots. Harvin, according to multiple reports, failed a drug test at the NFL Scouting Combine and slipped from a top-10 pick to the latter half of the first round.

Spikes, sources said, failed a drug test at Florida and was suspended four games during his rookie season with the Patriots for using performance enhancing drugs. Offensive lineman Maurice Hurt, according to multiple reports, last year tested positive for marijuana at the Combine. He fell to the Washington Redskins in the seventh round—and later developed into a starting guard in his rookie season.

Just how prevalent was the drug use among Meyer’s players? A source told Sporting News that Patriots coach Bill Belichick spoke to the current Florida team this offseason, and addressed the issue and how it impacts NFL careers.

“His message was, in essence, don’t be like those guys,” a source said.

But none of those aforementioned drug problems was as prominent as All-American cornerback Janoris Jenkins', who, like Harvin, former players say, was protected by Meyer’s Circle of Trust. Jenkins failed a drug test at Florida under Meyer and was arrested for his part in a bar fight. He was later arrested twice for possession of marijuana within the first few months Muschamp was on the job.

In fact, in the first month of Muschamp’s tenure, three players—Jenkins, linebacker Chris Martin and defensive end Kedric Johnson—were arrested in separate incidents for possession of marijuana.

When he was dismissed from the team by Muschamp, Jenkins told the Orlando Sentinel: “If (Meyer) was still the coach at Florida, I’d still be there.”

This is the same Jenkins who, according to sources, walked out on Meyer’s postgame speech after the 2008 season opener and threatened to quit. Meyer not only brought Jenkins back without punishment, Jenkins eventually developed into a freshman All-American and played a big role in the team’s championship run.

Meyer says Jenkins “is a good kid who made a bad mistake,” and contends he was dealing with issues at Florida that occur at “every program in the country.” Every coach, he says, has his own way of dealing with them.

“I am very proud of our guys that played at Florida,” Meyer said. “Are there issues? Yes there are with 18-22-year-olds. I have been criticized that I have been too lenient on players; that doesn’t concern me. We are going to go out of our way to mentor, educate and discipline guys the way we see fit to make sure they’re headed in the right direction. Are we perfect? I never said that. We do the best we can and I think our record has been really positive in the impact we’ve made on those people.”

The biggest impact, former players say, was for those in the Circle of Trust. It wasn’t so much a focus on trust as it was a revelation of talent. If you could play and contribute, you were part of the chosen few.

“(Meyer) lost the team’s respect,” Thomas said. “That kind of stuff spreads through the players. They see what they can get away with, and they push it. Even the star players; they liked him because they were in the Circle of Trust. But it backfired on him. They didn’t respect him.”

Said Meyer: "Was I dealing with entitlement issues? Yes. But they were great kids. If they weren't, I would've gotten rid of them."

"Over the last two years he was there the players had taken complete control of the team."

One way of ridding a program of undesirables is roster management. Recruiting is the lifeblood of all programs; a direct correlation exists between winning at recruiting and winning on fall Saturdays.

Few do it better than Meyer. Few are as ruthless when it comes to recruiting—and when it comes to making room for recruits. Thomas was a four-star recruit from Zephyrhills, Fla., and had a series of knee injuries hinder his development.

After the 2008 season, Thomas says he was told he had to “move on” because he wasn’t in the team’s plans for 2009.

“I told (Meyer) I was on track to graduate, I wasn’t a problem and I did everything I was supposed to do—I just had a knee injury,” Thomas said. “I told them I wasn’t leaving, and if they tried to force me to leave, I was going to tell everyone everything."

The next day, Thomas says he was given a medical hardship letter by position coach Chuck Heater stating Thomas had an injury that would prohibit him from playing football. The medical hardship scholarship doesn’t count against the NCAA limit of 85, and allows the affected player to stay on academic scholarship.

It also made room for another recruit. Meyer denied this tactic of roster management.

“As a coach, I don’t have any say in the medical decisions,” Meyer said. “If the doctors say a player can’t play any longer, he can’t play.”

Thomas signed the medical hardship, stayed at Florida for the 2009 season and graduated before transferring to then-Division II North Alabama. With eligibility remaining, he played in 23 games over the next two seasons and was an All-Gulf South Conference selection. He recently worked out for NFL scouts at North Alabama’s Pro Day, and was in Gainesville for Florida’s Pro Day.

Thomas may be the only player who will publicly speak out against Meyer. Many others are fearful of Meyer’s ability to hurt their NFL prospects. Every other player contacted for this story asked to be unidentified.

“As far as coaching, there’s no one else like (Meyer); he’s a great coach,” Thomas said. “He gets players to do things you never thought you could do. But he’s a bad person. He’ll win at Ohio State. But if he doesn’t change, they’re going to have the same problems.”

Before he walked on the field this spring to coach his first practice at Ohio State, Meyer ran into two more significant problems.

According to sources, Wisconsin accused Meyer and his staff of using former Ohio State NFL players to call high school recruits. Wisconsin also accused Meyer and his staff of bumping into offensive lineman Kyle Dodson, who was committed to the Badgers but eventually flipped and signed with the Buckeyes. The practice of “bumping” occurs when coaches accidentally “bump” into players during recruiting dead periods.

Both the alleged phone calls and bumping are NCAA violations.

When asked about the specific charges, Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema declined comment, but told Sporting News a day after National Signing Day that, “I wasn’t upset with Urban because of a gentlemen’s agreement. It was something else that I don’t want to get into. I told him what I knew, and he said he would take care of it and he did.”

Meyer said the alleged incidents happened “before I was hired—in December, but I can’t remember the exact timeline.” Meyer was hired at Ohio State on Nov. 28, 2011.

He said when he heard of the allegations, he asked the coaches involved and they denied any wrongdoing. Meyer said Ohio State hasn’t self-reported anything to the NCAA regarding those allegations, “because they’re not true.”

“Let me make one thing very clear,” Meyer said. “There are no issues with Urban Meyer and the NCAA.”

Ohio State is serving the first of two years of NCAA probation for several violations committed under former coach Jim Tressel, including multiple players receiving impermissible benefits. The football program could be a repeat violator if charged with an NCAA violation over the next two years, where additional severe penalties could be handed down.

During the heat of recruiting season, another dust-up arose in Columbus. It was the “gentlemen’s agreement”—a loosely held ideal among Big Ten coaches about backing off verbally committed high school players—that got Meyer into a dicey moment.

Meyer and his staff got eight players to back off verbal commitments and sign with the Buckeyes, and a few Big Ten coaches—including Bielema and Michigan State coach Mark Dantonio—spoke about the understanding among league coaches at press conferences.

A few days later, during a speech to the state of Ohio’s high school coaches clinic, Meyer scoffed at the notion of the “gentlemen’s agreement” proclaiming, “You’re pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what? We got nine (coaches) who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time.”

But less than two weeks earlier, sources say Ohio State running backs coach Stan Drayton called a Florida assistant coach to discuss the recruitment of Lakeland, Fla., wideout Ricquan Southward, who was committed to Ohio State but was still being recruited by Florida. Drayton, sources say, told Gators’ wide receivers coach Aubrey Hill that Meyer and Muschamp had a “gentlemen’s agreement” about committed players—and that Hill should back off recruiting Southward.

Southward eventually signed with Ohio State.

“I did not tell Stan Drayton that we had a gentleman’s agreement with Will,” Meyer said. “Now, I don’t know what Stan said to (Hill) in their conversation.”

Hill declined comment. Muschamp also declined and said: “I’m focusing on our team getting better—not anyone or anything else.”

It’s a still fragile program demanding no less.

Coming off the bottom

By the end of Muschamp’s first season, Florida failed to have a first-team All-SEC selection for the first time in 40 years. For the first time since 2004, Florida failed to have an underclassman in the NFL Draft. The Gators had only two players at the NFL Combine, the lowest number since the event moved to Indianapolis in 1985. Fifteen true freshmen—players Muschamp recruited—played for the Gators in 2011.

By the time Florida beat Ohio State in the Gator Bowl (while Meyer was recruiting for the Buckeyes), Muschamp’s weeding out process of players who wouldn’t buy into his philosophy had whittled the roster to 72 scholarship players—13 under the NCAA limit.

The 6-6 regular season record was Florida’s worst since 1987. The “broken” program—Meyer’s words—had hit rock bottom.

“To put it all on a sense of entitlement or a few other things that happened, I disagree,” Meyer said. “It comes down to players.”

When asked how such a dysfunctional team won the national title in 2008, one former player said, “We had better players than everyone else. It’s that’s simple. We had (Tim) Tebow. We played without our next best player (Harvin) who was injured for the SEC (Championship Game), and still beat an Alabama team that would’ve beaten Oklahoma, too.”

Meyer points to the loss of five juniors to the NFL after the 2009 season as the reason for Florida’s regression in 2010. There was also a new quarterback, a factor contributing to the loss of five games. While he says he left Florida with talent—the Gators had a top 10 defense in 2011—last year’s team also struggled to overcome quarterback injuries, among other problems.

Florida last month began Year 2 under Muschamp. Spring practice featured several young players battling for starting spots and a high-profile quarterback competition between sophomores Jeff Driskel and Jacoby Brissett.

Meyer, having replaced the ousted and beloved Tressel a year after Luke Fickell served as interim, began his first spring in Columbus trying to install a new offense, and getting players “to do the right things and be good people on and off the field — like I have done everywhere I have coached.” Both coaches are rebuilding while dealing with significant baggage.

Only one is connected to both.

Muschamp declined to be interviewed for this story, but in an interview with Sporting News last month, he hinted that things aren’t always what they seem.

“This team is 15-11 over the last two years,” Muschamp said. “I always look at the difference between reality and perception. Sometimes perception isn’t always what reality is.”

BigMeatballDave
04-09-2012, 01:22 PM
LMAO at Setsuna and DA

Saul Good
04-09-2012, 01:35 PM
I love a Miami fan throwing stones.

BigCatDaddy
04-09-2012, 01:43 PM
I love a Miami fan throwing stones.

I'm pretty sure he didn't throw the stones.

Demonpenz
04-09-2012, 01:47 PM
A very revealing article about the collapse of the Florida Gators football program.

The bright side for UF fans is that Urban Meyers looks very bad in this mess:


From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-04-09/urban-meyer-florida-ohio-state-ncaa-violation-recruiting-drugs-program-will-musc?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a6

The uproar and controversy of Urban Meyer’s stunning recruiting coup at Ohio State settled in and Stefon Diggs, still on the Buckeyes' wish list, was debating his future.

Diggs, the second-highest rated wide receiver in the country, had narrowed his list of potential schools to Maryland, Florida and Ohio State. For more than a week following National Signing Day on Feb. 1, and before Diggs eventually signed with Maryland, Meyer relentlessly pursued Diggs.

Multiple sources told Sporting News that Meyer—who won two national championships in six years at Florida and cemented his legacy as one of the game’s greatest coaches—told the Diggs family that he wouldn’t let his son go to Florida because of significant character issues in the locker room.

Character issues that we now know were fueled by a culture Meyer created. Character issues that gutted what was four years earlier the most powerful program in college football.


It was Meyer who declared the Florida program “broken” at the end of his last regular season game in Gainesville in November of 2010. But why was it broken?

“Over the last two years he was there,” one former player said, “the players had taken complete control of the team.”

Only now, through interviews with multiple sources during a three-month Sporting News investigation, do we see just how damaged the infrastructure really was and how much repair work second-year coach Will Muschamp has had to undertake in replacing Meyer—who has moved on to Ohio State less than a year after resigning from Florida for health reasons.

Meyer denies allegations that he cast Florida and its players in a dark light when he spoke to the Diggs family, and said, “I love Florida; I’ll always be a Gator. My motives were pure as gold when I left. We left Florida because I was dealing with health issues that I’ve since learned how to control.”

But multiple former players and others close to the program say the timing of his departure was also tied to the roster he left behind. Remember it was Meyer who hinted the program that won 13 games in 2006, 2008 and 2009—and lost only 10 games from 2005-09—was flawed beyond the unsuspecting eye.

Now those issues have surfaced for all to see. Left in the wake of Meyer’s resignation were problems that can destroy a coaching career: drug use among players, a philosophy of preferential treatment for certain players, a sense of entitlement among all players and roster management by scholarship manipulation.

The coach who holds himself above the seedy underbelly of the game; who as an ESPN television analyst in 2011 publicly berated the ills of college football; left a program mired in the very things he has criticized.

“The program,” former Florida safety Bryan Thomas said, “was out of control.”

Ironically, Florida’s downfall began at the height of Meyer’s success—the 2008 national championship season. Three seasons of enabling and pandering to elite players—what Meyer’s players called his “Circle of Trust”—began to tear away at what he’d put together.

“I’ve never heard of Circle of Trust before in my life,” Meyer said.

Former players, though, contend it was the foundation of Florida’s culture under Meyer. In the season opener against Hawaii, Meyer said a few elite players (including wideout Percy Harvin, linebacker Brandon Spikes and tight end Aaron Hernandez) would miss the game with injuries. According to multiple sources, the three players—all critical factors in Florida’s rise under Meyer—failed drug tests for marijuana and were sitting out as part of standard university punishment.

By publicly stating the three were injured and not being disciplined, former players say, Meyer was creating a divide between the haves and have-nots on the team.

“They were running with us on the first team all week in practice,” one former player said. “The next thing you know, they’re on the sidelines with a (walking) boot for the season opener like they were injured. Of course players see that and respond to it.”

It was Harvin, more than anyone, who epitomized the climate Meyer created. While former players say Harvin always was treated differently as a member of Meyer’s Circle of Trust, it was the beginning of his sophomore season—after he helped lead the Gators to the 2006 national title—that it became blatant. That's also when it began to contribute negatively toward team chemistry.

During offseason conditioning before the 2007 season, the team was running stadium steps and at one point, Harvin, according to sources, sat down and refused to run. When confronted by strength and conditioning coaches, Harvin—who failed to return calls and texts to his cell phone to comment on this story—said, “This (expletive) ends now.”

“The next day,” a former player said, “we were playing basketball as conditioning.”

It only got worse as Harvin’s career progressed. At one point during the 2008 season, multiple sources confirmed that Harvin, now a prominent member of the Minnesota Vikings, physically attacked wide receivers coach Billy Gonzales, grabbing him by the neck and throwing him to the ground. Harvin had to be pulled off Gonzales by two assistant coaches—but was never disciplined.

When asked about the Harvin incident, Gonzales—now offensive coordinator at Illinois—said, “I think it’s a little overblown. I mean, every great player wants his voice to be heard.”

Said Meyer: “Something did happen and something was handled. I don’t think it’s fair to Percy Harvin or Billy Gonzales to talk about it.”

Gonzales left Florida for LSU—a lateral move—after the 2009 season, and did so by placing his keys, cell phone and resignation letter on Meyer’s desk. There were rumors that Gonzales resigned with a Post-it note on Meyer’s desk.

“I never left a Post-it note,” Gonzales said. “Urban and I have talked since. He’ll do great things at Ohio State.”

That is, unless he hasn’t learned from his time at Florida.

Even as the unprecedented success at Florida continued, a mounting number of players were dragging the Gators’ name down a path of drugs and destruction. At least 30 players were arrested in Meyer’s six seasons. Instances of substance abuse were often linked to his most prized athletes. NFL teams took notice.

Hernandez admitted to failing a drug test at Florida, a problem that cut his draft stock from first-round grade to fourth-round selection by the New England Patriots. Harvin, according to multiple reports, failed a drug test at the NFL Scouting Combine and slipped from a top-10 pick to the latter half of the first round.

Spikes, sources said, failed a drug test at Florida and was suspended four games during his rookie season with the Patriots for using performance enhancing drugs. Offensive lineman Maurice Hurt, according to multiple reports, last year tested positive for marijuana at the Combine. He fell to the Washington Redskins in the seventh round—and later developed into a starting guard in his rookie season.

Just how prevalent was the drug use among Meyer’s players? A source told Sporting News that Patriots coach Bill Belichick spoke to the current Florida team this offseason, and addressed the issue and how it impacts NFL careers.

“His message was, in essence, don’t be like those guys,” a source said.

But none of those aforementioned drug problems was as prominent as All-American cornerback Janoris Jenkins', who, like Harvin, former players say, was protected by Meyer’s Circle of Trust. Jenkins failed a drug test at Florida under Meyer and was arrested for his part in a bar fight. He was later arrested twice for possession of marijuana within the first few months Muschamp was on the job.

In fact, in the first month of Muschamp’s tenure, three players—Jenkins, linebacker Chris Martin and defensive end Kedric Johnson—were arrested in separate incidents for possession of marijuana.

When he was dismissed from the team by Muschamp, Jenkins told the Orlando Sentinel: “If (Meyer) was still the coach at Florida, I’d still be there.”

This is the same Jenkins who, according to sources, walked out on Meyer’s postgame speech after the 2008 season opener and threatened to quit. Meyer not only brought Jenkins back without punishment, Jenkins eventually developed into a freshman All-American and played a big role in the team’s championship run.

Meyer says Jenkins “is a good kid who made a bad mistake,” and contends he was dealing with issues at Florida that occur at “every program in the country.” Every coach, he says, has his own way of dealing with them.

“I am very proud of our guys that played at Florida,” Meyer said. “Are there issues? Yes there are with 18-22-year-olds. I have been criticized that I have been too lenient on players; that doesn’t concern me. We are going to go out of our way to mentor, educate and discipline guys the way we see fit to make sure they’re headed in the right direction. Are we perfect? I never said that. We do the best we can and I think our record has been really positive in the impact we’ve made on those people.”

The biggest impact, former players say, was for those in the Circle of Trust. It wasn’t so much a focus on trust as it was a revelation of talent. If you could play and contribute, you were part of the chosen few.

“(Meyer) lost the team’s respect,” Thomas said. “That kind of stuff spreads through the players. They see what they can get away with, and they push it. Even the star players; they liked him because they were in the Circle of Trust. But it backfired on him. They didn’t respect him.”

Said Meyer: "Was I dealing with entitlement issues? Yes. But they were great kids. If they weren't, I would've gotten rid of them."

"Over the last two years he was there the players had taken complete control of the team."

One way of ridding a program of undesirables is roster management. Recruiting is the lifeblood of all programs; a direct correlation exists between winning at recruiting and winning on fall Saturdays.

Few do it better than Meyer. Few are as ruthless when it comes to recruiting—and when it comes to making room for recruits. Thomas was a four-star recruit from Zephyrhills, Fla., and had a series of knee injuries hinder his development.

After the 2008 season, Thomas says he was told he had to “move on” because he wasn’t in the team’s plans for 2009.

“I told (Meyer) I was on track to graduate, I wasn’t a problem and I did everything I was supposed to do—I just had a knee injury,” Thomas said. “I told them I wasn’t leaving, and if they tried to force me to leave, I was going to tell everyone everything."

The next day, Thomas says he was given a medical hardship letter by position coach Chuck Heater stating Thomas had an injury that would prohibit him from playing football. The medical hardship scholarship doesn’t count against the NCAA limit of 85, and allows the affected player to stay on academic scholarship.

It also made room for another recruit. Meyer denied this tactic of roster management.

“As a coach, I don’t have any say in the medical decisions,” Meyer said. “If the doctors say a player can’t play any longer, he can’t play.”

Thomas signed the medical hardship, stayed at Florida for the 2009 season and graduated before transferring to then-Division II North Alabama. With eligibility remaining, he played in 23 games over the next two seasons and was an All-Gulf South Conference selection. He recently worked out for NFL scouts at North Alabama’s Pro Day, and was in Gainesville for Florida’s Pro Day.

Thomas may be the only player who will publicly speak out against Meyer. Many others are fearful of Meyer’s ability to hurt their NFL prospects. Every other player contacted for this story asked to be unidentified.

“As far as coaching, there’s no one else like (Meyer); he’s a great coach,” Thomas said. “He gets players to do things you never thought you could do. But he’s a bad person. He’ll win at Ohio State. But if he doesn’t change, they’re going to have the same problems.”

Before he walked on the field this spring to coach his first practice at Ohio State, Meyer ran into two more significant problems.

According to sources, Wisconsin accused Meyer and his staff of using former Ohio State NFL players to call high school recruits. Wisconsin also accused Meyer and his staff of bumping into offensive lineman Kyle Dodson, who was committed to the Badgers but eventually flipped and signed with the Buckeyes. The practice of “bumping” occurs when coaches accidentally “bump” into players during recruiting dead periods.

Both the alleged phone calls and bumping are NCAA violations.

When asked about the specific charges, Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema declined comment, but told Sporting News a day after National Signing Day that, “I wasn’t upset with Urban because of a gentlemen’s agreement. It was something else that I don’t want to get into. I told him what I knew, and he said he would take care of it and he did.”

Meyer said the alleged incidents happened “before I was hired—in December, but I can’t remember the exact timeline.” Meyer was hired at Ohio State on Nov. 28, 2011.

He said when he heard of the allegations, he asked the coaches involved and they denied any wrongdoing. Meyer said Ohio State hasn’t self-reported anything to the NCAA regarding those allegations, “because they’re not true.”

“Let me make one thing very clear,” Meyer said. “There are no issues with Urban Meyer and the NCAA.”

Ohio State is serving the first of two years of NCAA probation for several violations committed under former coach Jim Tressel, including multiple players receiving impermissible benefits. The football program could be a repeat violator if charged with an NCAA violation over the next two years, where additional severe penalties could be handed down.

During the heat of recruiting season, another dust-up arose in Columbus. It was the “gentlemen’s agreement”—a loosely held ideal among Big Ten coaches about backing off verbally committed high school players—that got Meyer into a dicey moment.

Meyer and his staff got eight players to back off verbal commitments and sign with the Buckeyes, and a few Big Ten coaches—including Bielema and Michigan State coach Mark Dantonio—spoke about the understanding among league coaches at press conferences.

A few days later, during a speech to the state of Ohio’s high school coaches clinic, Meyer scoffed at the notion of the “gentlemen’s agreement” proclaiming, “You’re pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what? We got nine (coaches) who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time.”

But less than two weeks earlier, sources say Ohio State running backs coach Stan Drayton called a Florida assistant coach to discuss the recruitment of Lakeland, Fla., wideout Ricquan Southward, who was committed to Ohio State but was still being recruited by Florida. Drayton, sources say, told Gators’ wide receivers coach Aubrey Hill that Meyer and Muschamp had a “gentlemen’s agreement” about committed players—and that Hill should back off recruiting Southward.

Southward eventually signed with Ohio State.

“I did not tell Stan Drayton that we had a gentleman’s agreement with Will,” Meyer said. “Now, I don’t know what Stan said to (Hill) in their conversation.”

Hill declined comment. Muschamp also declined and said: “I’m focusing on our team getting better—not anyone or anything else.”

It’s a still fragile program demanding no less.

Coming off the bottom

By the end of Muschamp’s first season, Florida failed to have a first-team All-SEC selection for the first time in 40 years. For the first time since 2004, Florida failed to have an underclassman in the NFL Draft. The Gators had only two players at the NFL Combine, the lowest number since the event moved to Indianapolis in 1985. Fifteen true freshmen—players Muschamp recruited—played for the Gators in 2011.

By the time Florida beat Ohio State in the Gator Bowl (while Meyer was recruiting for the Buckeyes), Muschamp’s weeding out process of players who wouldn’t buy into his philosophy had whittled the roster to 72 scholarship players—13 under the NCAA limit.

The 6-6 regular season record was Florida’s worst since 1987. The “broken” program—Meyer’s words—had hit rock bottom.

“To put it all on a sense of entitlement or a few other things that happened, I disagree,” Meyer said. “It comes down to players.”

When asked how such a dysfunctional team won the national title in 2008, one former player said, “We had better players than everyone else. It’s that’s simple. We had (Tim) Tebow. We played without our next best player (Harvin) who was injured for the SEC (Championship Game), and still beat an Alabama team that would’ve beaten Oklahoma, too.”

Meyer points to the loss of five juniors to the NFL after the 2009 season as the reason for Florida’s regression in 2010. There was also a new quarterback, a factor contributing to the loss of five games. While he says he left Florida with talent—the Gators had a top 10 defense in 2011—last year’s team also struggled to overcome quarterback injuries, among other problems.

Florida last month began Year 2 under Muschamp. Spring practice featured several young players battling for starting spots and a high-profile quarterback competition between sophomores Jeff Driskel and Jacoby Brissett.

Meyer, having replaced the ousted and beloved Tressel a year after Luke Fickell served as interim, began his first spring in Columbus trying to install a new offense, and getting players “to do the right things and be good people on and off the field — like I have done everywhere I have coached.” Both coaches are rebuilding while dealing with significant baggage.

Only one is connected to both.

Muschamp declined to be interviewed for this story, but in an interview with Sporting News last month, he hinted that things aren’t always what they seem.

“This team is 15-11 over the last two years,” Muschamp said. “I always look at the difference between reality and perception. Sometimes perception isn’t always what reality is.”


Yep

The Franchise
04-09-2012, 01:49 PM
tl;dr

Pants
04-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Who gives a shit?

lewdog
04-09-2012, 01:51 PM
I am just going out on a limb here, so correct me if I am wrong. But I am guessing by your avatar that you are a U of Miami fan? If this is correct please look up the following phrase.

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

The Franchise
04-09-2012, 01:54 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465

Rausch
04-09-2012, 01:56 PM
Florida State: Big on history...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRs86vdjLtK4hJouM5oStOP1htZCNe4ZsWyNO0juCCUYGnX7TbmTQ


















For the most part...

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 02:03 PM
LMAO at Setsuna and DA

LMAO at us? For what? Winning two NC's?

Meyer was never a Gator. He was a hired gun and he won us 2 NC's which I'm thankful for. He's also a POS lying bastard who left the program gutted. Thankfully we now have Coach Champ who I believe is turning the program in the right direction. Last year was difficult, but as bad as it was it wasn't as painful as Meyer's last year when he was already out the door. Champ is doing great things, recruited an Awesome '12 class and already has an outstanding '13 class lined up (15 commits already) and Florida football has a very bright future.

I couldn't think of a more fitting program to take on Meyer, likely have some success (though I predict 0 NC's), and then have him bail - excuse me, fall to poor health - when the going gets tough.

Saulbadguy
04-09-2012, 02:05 PM
LMAO at us? For what? Winning two NC's?

Meyer was never a Gator. He was a hired gun and he won us 2 NC's which I'm thankful for. He's also a POS lying bastard who left the program gutted. Thankfully we now have Coach Champ who I believe is turning the program in the right direction. Last year was difficult, but as bad as it was it wasn't as painful as Meyer's last year when he was already out the door. Champ is doing great things, recruited an Awesome '12 class and already has an outstanding '13 class lined up (15 commits already) and Florida football has a very bright future.

I couldn't think of a more fitting program to take on Meyer, likely have some success (though I predict 0 NC's), and then have him bail - excuse me, fall to poor health - when the going gets tough.

How will you guys fair without an offensive genius like Charlie Weis at the helm?

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 02:07 PM
How will you guys fair without an offensive genius like Charlie Weis at the helm?

- Weis - Brantley + Pease = Net gain

Braincase
04-09-2012, 02:08 PM
I'm calling BS... After all, its the SEMFingC!

Rausch
04-09-2012, 02:12 PM
- Weis - Brantley + Pease = Net gain

Oh $3it...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eChJYQ9nAZA/StVEl8-V1LI/AAAAAAAAAbY/MnlAMIiiKg4/s400/05.+The+Bear+Jew.jpg

Pants
04-09-2012, 02:18 PM
How will you guys fair without an offensive genius like Charlie Weis at the helm?

Looks like the Doctor will be going through a clinic every year until he retires.

L.A. Chieffan
04-09-2012, 02:21 PM
Hows that whole Nevin Shapiro thing working out for you?

DaWolf
04-09-2012, 02:23 PM
They should trade for Tebow...

Bambi
04-09-2012, 02:34 PM
wow, what a disaster

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 03:03 PM
wow, what a disaster

ROFL

KCChiefsFan88
04-09-2012, 03:08 PM
Hows that whole Nevin Shapiro thing working out for you?

Just fine... basically the NCAA can't prove the vast majority of what he said.

It will be a slap on the wrist... similar to what Ohio State and UNC got.

Oh and in the process, Al Golden was able to land a top 10 recruiting class... despite being attacked with negative recruiting with the scandal. Once that black cloud is gone, look out.

MagicHef
04-09-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm not a college football fan, but I'd take my favorite team in shambles in a few years if it meant 2 National Championships/Super Bowl wins/whatever in the process.

Bambi
04-09-2012, 03:25 PM
ROFL

well...it's no Miami but ya know

;)

Bambi
04-09-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm not a college football fan, but I'd take my favorite team in shambles in a few years if it meant 2 National Championships/Super Bowl wins/whatever in the process.

Exactly how I feel about KU Football 2008 style!

Frazod
04-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Exactly how I feel about KU Football 2008 style!

National Championship
Super Bowl
Backing into a BCS game against the Chokies

One of these things is not like the others.....

Reerun_KC
04-09-2012, 03:30 PM
National Championship
Super Bowl
Backing into a BCS game against the Chokies

One of these things is not like the others.....:deevee:

Frazod
04-09-2012, 03:31 PM
:deevee:

Stop me when I tell a lie, Reerunson!

Braincase
04-09-2012, 03:31 PM
National Championship
Super Bowl
Backing into a BCS game against the Chokies

One of these things is not like the others.....

Which one is Mizzou football?

Frazod
04-09-2012, 03:32 PM
Which one is Mizzou football?

Do you really want to do this again? Really?

Setsuna
04-09-2012, 03:37 PM
I think the dude that wrote this is being selective and Meyer did something for Tebow and he's just not saying anything to protect the golden boy. And that pisses me off. I still love Harvin though. He was complete beast mode. He may have done whatever he wanted, but he didn't underachieve because of it.

Rausch
04-09-2012, 03:39 PM
Just fine... basically the NCAA can't prove the vast majority of what he said.

It will be a slap on the wrist... similar to what Ohio State and UNC got.

I guess it's ok then...

GordonGekko
04-09-2012, 03:40 PM
At least they got 2 NC's out of all that shit.

Programs rise and fall, it is the nature of it.

I remember when Miami was just completely unstoppable, and look at them now.

Notre Dame would kill to do what Florida did.

sedated
04-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Do you really want to do this again? Really?

this is a pretty amusing response, considering you are still (randomly) bringing up the same argument you've had for 5 years.

RealSNR
04-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Is Charlie Weis like that guy who was at the Nagasaki atomic bomb and then was like, "Shit! I've got to go see my family in Hiroshima where it's safe!"

Gets raped at Notre Dame, goes home to father Scott, gets raped by Cassel, goes to Florida with his son, gets Urban'd, goes to KU...

Oh, shit...

RealSNR
04-09-2012, 03:44 PM
Also, I'm all for this thread continuing into an MU/KU pissing match.

Far more entertaining than talking about Florida football

Setsuna
04-09-2012, 03:45 PM
LMAO at us? For what? Winning two NC's?

Meyer was never a Gator. He was a hired gun and he won us 2 NC's which I'm thankful for. He's also a POS lying bastard who left the program gutted. Thankfully we now have Coach Champ who I believe is turning the program in the right direction. Last year was difficult, but as bad as it was it wasn't as painful as Meyer's last year when he was already out the door. Champ is doing great things, recruited an Awesome '12 class and already has an outstanding '13 class lined up (15 commits already) and Florida football has a very bright future.

I couldn't think of a more fitting program to take on Meyer, likely have some success (though I predict 0 NC's), and then have him bail - excuse me, fall to poor health - when the going gets tough.
:clap:

Frazod
04-09-2012, 03:46 PM
this is a pretty amusing response, considering you are still (randomly) bringing up the same argument you've had for 5 years.

No, Dopey, I was slapping down your pet retard who seems to equate that horseshit Orange Bowl with winning an actual championship. If you're really that fucking stupid, well, step on up to the plate.

RealSNR
04-09-2012, 03:48 PM
No, Dopey, I was slapping down your pet retard who seems to equate that horseshit Orange Bowl with winning an actual championship. If you're really that fucking stupid, well, step on up to the plate.problem?

Bambi
04-09-2012, 03:49 PM
National Championship
Super Bowl
Backing into a BCS game against the Chokies

One of these things is not like the others.....

lol, whaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! :cuss:

Bambi
04-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Which one is Mizzou football?

LMAO

Frazod
04-09-2012, 03:50 PM
problem?

Nothing a little vinegar and water won't cure.

Hammock Parties
04-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Pioli is a real piece of shit.

Rausch
04-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Notre Dame would kill to do what Florida did.

They already did.

Before Florida...

Braincase
04-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Do you really want to do this again? Really?
Sorry, I won't bring it up again.

Titty Meat
04-09-2012, 04:30 PM
Nebraska owns the Fuckeyes.

Bugeater
04-09-2012, 04:33 PM
This sounds like just the guy Ohio State needs.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-09-2012, 04:41 PM
wow, what a disaster

Beaker football? No, you didn't say laughingstock.

ThatRaceCardGuy
04-09-2012, 04:43 PM
Missourah fans call bs! "SEC SEC SEC."

ChiefGator
04-09-2012, 04:44 PM
Is Charlie Weis like that guy who was at the Nagasaki atomic bomb and then was like, "Shit! I've got to go see my family in Hiroshima where it's safe!"

Gets raped at Notre Dame, goes home to father Scott, gets raped by Cassel, goes to Florida with his son, gets Urban'd, goes to KU...

Oh, shit...

He's just a bad offensive coordinator actually. The Gators last year reminded me of the inept Chiefs the year before. He is WAY overvalued as an offensive coordinator.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-09-2012, 04:45 PM
Missourah fans call bs! "SEC SEC SEC."

Hey, it's not like they had a winless conference season or something...

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Nebraska owns the ****eyes.

ROFL Let's not get carried away. You and I both know the outcome of last years game if Braxton Miller doesn't get hurt.

Setsuna
04-09-2012, 05:21 PM
ROFL Let's not get carried away. You and I both know the outcome of last years game if Braxton Miller doesn't get hurt.

You lose again? Freshman don't beat conference opponents.

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 05:24 PM
I still want to know how Urban left the cupboard bare at Florida? Didn't his last 4 classes finish 1st, 12th, 21st and 1st in scout rankings? That last class he brought in had some of the most ridiculous d linemen I have ever seen. All of us have heard rumblings about his recruiting methods and I don't doubt he's a snake for one minute, it's a necessary practice for many in the SEC. If they are not paying players (Auburn & Alabama), they are playing fast and loose with the scholarship counts (Alabama). Many of their coaches are grade A scum bags, Petrino for instance. He can't afford to get OSU into any trouble, they are under a microscope as it is. And yes, it's comical that a Miami fan posted this article.

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 05:24 PM
You lose again? Freshman don't beat conference opponents.

You obviously didn't see the game or you would know?

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 05:46 PM
I still want to know how Urban left the cupboard bare at Florida? Didn't his last 4 classes finish 1st, 12th, 21st and 1st in scout rankings? That last class he brought in had some of the most ridiculous d linemen I have ever seen. All of us have heard rumblings about his recruiting methods and I don't doubt he's a snake for one minute, it's a necessary practice for many in the SEC. If they are not paying players (Auburn & Alabama), they are playing fast and loose with the scholarship counts (Alabama). Many of their coaches are grade A scum bags, Petrino for instance. He can't afford to get OSU into any trouble, they are under a microscope as it is. And yes, it's comical that a Miami fan posted this article.

He would sign highly ranked classes and then have a bunch of those guys transfer or leave the program. Last year's team had something like 68 scholarship players. You're not going to win when other teams have 15-20 more scholarship players on their roster.

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 05:54 PM
He would sign highly ranked classes and then have a bunch of those guys transfer or leave the program. Last year's team had something like 68 scholarship players. You're not going to win when other teams have 15-20 more scholarship players on their roster.

Okay, but why did they transfer, did they have character issues? Not fit the scheme of Muschamp? I saw the one medical redshirt kid and I laughed. I think Florida only had a couple the whole time he was there. Nick Saban has had more medical redshirts in the time he has been there than the rest of the SEC combined. One last thing, why are all these anti Meyer pieces coming out from the same Florida people who used to worship him? At one point in time, he was a god to the Florida fans I know. Just seems funny to me.

ChiefGator
04-09-2012, 06:35 PM
Okay, but why did they transfer, did they have character issues? Not fit the scheme of Muschamp?

Well, I'll quote this to answer your earlier question as well. Yes, Meyer had very high recruiting classes, until the end. But they seemed to have a problem "coaching up" the defense, especially the defensive lineman. Additionally, the class on offense didn't fit what Muschamp wants to run. It was built for the spread and Muschamp wants a run-heavy, Alabama style of pro offense. (Despite his choice at offensive coordinator)


One last thing, why are all these anti Meyer pieces coming out from the same Florida people who used to worship him? At one point in time, he was a god to the Florida fans I know. Just seems funny to me.

I haven't seen ALOT of anti-Meyer stuff, but there was clearly something wrong in Denmark, even while we enjoyed the championships. The arrests came in at a startling pace. And the only time any discipline appeared to happen was when our AD (Foley) intervened.

Personally, I got damn tired of watching Tebow up the middle. We won, in many ways, DESPITE the coaching and only because of the ridiculous talent he collected.

ChiefGator
04-09-2012, 06:37 PM
The Florida Gators football program is in shambles

Oh yeah, but this isn't true. To me, we looked damn good in our recent spring game. Last spring game, Weis couldn't figure out how to call a play for a completion. Seemed like we only had four pass completions TOTAL last year in the spring game.

Things are looking surprisingly up for the Florida Gators football program actually.

Braincase
04-09-2012, 06:43 PM
Hate to admit this... just found out a dear friend of mine from college has a son who is a sophomore on Florida's football team. I guess I can root for him, at least to not get hurt.

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 06:44 PM
Personally, I got damn tired of watching Tebow up the middle. We won, in many ways, DESPITE the coaching and only because of the ridiculous talent he collected.

This.

Oh yeah, but this isn't true. To me, we looked damn good in our recent spring game. Last spring game, Weis couldn't figure out how to call a play for a completion. Seemed like we only had four pass completions TOTAL last year in the spring game.

Things are looking surprisingly up for the Florida Gators football program actually.

And this.

Saulbadguy
04-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Hate to admit this... just found out a dear friend of mine from college has a son who is a sophomore on Florida's football team. I guess I can root for him, at least to not get hurt.

Root for a mild, non-career threatening injury.

Braincase
04-09-2012, 06:50 PM
Root for a mild, non-career threatening injury.

I'll never root for an injury on a kid, despite what some others think I do.

Anyway, it's the fullback, Joyer. His grandmother was a mentor to me when I first arrived at WSU in '81, and Joyer's mother Kirsten, and uncle, Kevin, were great friends to have.

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 06:50 PM
Oh yeah, but this isn't true. To me, we looked damn good in our recent spring game. Last spring game, Weis couldn't figure out how to call a play for a completion. Seemed like we only had four pass completions TOTAL last year in the spring game.

Things are looking surprisingly up for the Florida Gators football program actually.

How could they not. Best team in a talent rich state. Recruiting kids to Florida and USC, probably 2 of the easiest sells.

DaKCMan AP
04-09-2012, 06:51 PM
I'll never root for an injury on a kid, despite what some others think I do.

Anyway, it's the fullback, Joyer. His grandmother was a mentor to me when I first arrived at WSU in '81, and Joyer's mother Kirsten, and uncle, Kevin, were great friends to have.

Hunter Joyer is a damn fine, beastly player. He's going to see an expanded role this season and will be the primary short yardage back.

ohiobronco2
04-09-2012, 07:01 PM
Well, I'll quote this to answer your earlier question as well. Yes, Meyer had very high recruiting classes, until the end. But they seemed to have a problem "coaching up" the defense, especially the defensive lineman. Additionally, the class on offense didn't fit what Muschamp wants to run. It was built for the spread and Muschamp wants a run-heavy, Alabama style of pro offense. (Despite his choice at offensive coordinator)

I haven't seen ALOT of anti-Meyer stuff, but there was clearly something wrong in Denmark, even while we enjoyed the championships. The arrests came in at a startling pace. And the only time any discipline appeared to happen was when our AD (Foley) intervened.

Personally, I got damn tired of watching Tebow up the middle. We won, in many ways, DESPITE the coaching and only because of the ridiculous talent he collected.

Didn't his coaches get poached a lot? I know Strong went to Louisville, don't know how many others left. And changing from the spread to a more pro style offense, you'll always have initial struggles with that. That is what OSU is dealing with now, transition. A coach can't entirely be blamed for that, it's the reality of college football. As far as issues with arrests, no doubt, they were a problem. For all of the faults of Tressel, arrests were not common.

Setsuna
04-09-2012, 07:16 PM
I think the "Tebow" type of QBs are a thing of the past in the SEC and a more game managing throw first type of QB will succeed. But they still have to be athletic enough to run when pressured. I believe Brissett is what we need.

ChiefGator
04-09-2012, 07:21 PM
Hunter Joyer is a damn fine, beastly player. He's going to see an expanded role this season and will be the primary short yardage back.

This... he is going to be on the field alot this year, and looked really good as a freshmen. One of the players I am looking forward to watching this year.

ChiefGator
04-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Didn't his coaches get poached a lot? I know Strong went to Louisville, don't know how many others left. And changing from the spread to a more pro style offense, you'll always have initial struggles with that.

Yeah, these are both issues. But, to me, none of the middle of the defensive line players ever lived up to their hype. But our backfield and linebackers always looked good. Last year may be leaving a sour taste in my mouth since we were so bad against the power run up the middle. But, as you point out, that was definitely a transition year.

EDIT: I can't remember the last time we have had such a battering ram of a fullback in Florida. Probably before Spurrier actually.

Braincase
04-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Hunter Joyer is a damn fine, beastly player. He's going to see an expanded role this season and will be the primary short yardage back.

Ironically, I found out one of my high school teammates boy's is a linebacker at FSU. Life is a bit on the weird side.

Bambi
04-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Beaker football? No, you didn't say laughingstock.

Don't worry bro, one day ya'll will have what we have.

Well actually, no...you probably won't.

Saul Good
04-09-2012, 09:34 PM
Don't worry bro, one day ya'll will have what we have.

Well actually, no...you probably won't.

An Orange Bowl trophy? Got one.

DaKCMan AP
04-10-2012, 05:56 AM
Didn't his coaches get poached a lot? I know Strong went to Louisville, don't know how many others left. And changing from the spread to a more pro style offense, you'll always have initial struggles with that. That is what OSU is dealing with now, transition. A coach can't entirely be blamed for that, it's the reality of college football. As far as issues with arrests, no doubt, they were a problem. For all of the faults of Tressel, arrests were not common.

Charlie Strong, Dan Mullen, Greg Mattison, Billy Gonzales.

I think the "Tebow" type of QBs are a thing of the past in the SEC and a more game managing throw first type of QB will succeed. But they still have to be athletic enough to run when pressured. I believe Brissett is what we need.

Why do you hate Jeff Driskel?

Yeah, these are both issues. But, to me, none of the middle of the defensive line players ever lived up to their hype. But our backfield and linebackers always looked good. Last year may be leaving a sour taste in my mouth since we were so bad against the power run up the middle. But, as you point out, that was definitely a transition year.

EDIT: I can't remember the last time we have had such a battering ram of a fullback in Florida. Probably before Spurrier actually.

Exactly. Dee Finley & Will Hill were absolute busts. Brantley was a major bust. John Brown and Torrey Davis never played. Lo Edwards & Deonte Thompson weren't as advertised.

Guys that 4* or 5* and were major disappointments:
2007 (#1 ranked class, 27 signees - 20 4-5*): John Brantley, John Brown, Torrey Davis, Jerimy Finch, Jerry Howard, Deonte Thompson, Bo Williams
2008 (#3 ranked class, 22 signees - 16 4-5*): Brendan Beal, Adrian Bushell, Dee Finley, Frankie Hammond Jr., Will Hill, Omar Hunter (see if he finallly performs this year), T.J. Lawrence, Lerentee McCray (see if he steps up this year with Powell's injury), Carl Moore, Earl Okine

2009's class was complete garbage. Only 17 signees. Love Debose (even though he hasn't lived up to the hype), love Jelani Jenkins, and Jon Bostic has been good. 5* Gary Brown never played. Dee Finley (who re-signed after going to JUCO) still sucked. We have better TEs than Jordan Reed - and they weren't recruited as QBs. Edwin Herbert - who? I do think Gilly and Josh Evans step up this year.

Saulbadguy
04-10-2012, 07:07 AM
An Orange Bowl trophy? Got one.

I told them we've already got one!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g24d7x9Ob64/TetmRzUAPCI/AAAAAAAAMPQ/VK6aFo6cOKo/s1600/french-soldiers-monty-python.jpg

Braincase
04-10-2012, 07:43 AM
Hey, it's not like they had a winless conference season or something...
Teams bounce back all the time. Mizzou did after '71 and '85.

Fairplay
04-10-2012, 08:18 AM
Take a look at this baller and sign him up gators.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6n_uXkAYU

Setsuna
04-10-2012, 08:23 AM
Why do you hate Jeff Driskel?
ROFL I don't hate him. He's a Gator. But isn't it one or the other? Muschamp can't have both can he? From what I've seen, Driskel is much more athletic than Brissett and his throws look stronger, but Brissett has more maturity and more pocket presence. I suppose if I wasn't so impatient, I'd be all Driskel.

Oh and Reed still looks lost and can't catch a ball when anyone is near him. I don't know why we're still trying to force the issue on him. It is tiresome and it better not cost us first downs.

HemiEd
04-10-2012, 08:33 AM
National Championship
Super Bowl
Backing into a BCS game against the Chokies

One of these things is not like the others.....

:LOL: BUTTHURT!!

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-10-2012, 08:39 AM
Don't worry bro, one day ya'll will have what we have.

Well actually, no...you probably won't.

Winless conference seasons? Pilgrim shoes on the mascot? Oh, you mean the BullCockShit fruit bowl trophy.

You act like KU football is some kind of power house with Rascal Boy at the helm ROFL

Frazod
04-10-2012, 08:39 AM
:LOL: BUTTHURT!!

So, does this mean you actually think these things are equal?

You seem so much smarter in real life.

Saul Good
04-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Winless conference seasons? Pilgrim shoes on the mascot? Oh, you mean the BullCockShit fruit bowl trophy.

You act like KU football is some kind of power house with Rascal Boy at the helm ROFL

If the discussion about major bowl victories for Mizzou must take place within a Gators thread, at least talk about the 1966 Sugar Bowl win over the Gators.

The Tigers used to play SEC teams in bowls regularly. There was a span where Mizzou played 7 bowl games against SEC teams in a two decade span. We lost the Orange Bowl to Georgia before winning the next 6.

Braincase
04-10-2012, 08:58 AM
Winless conference seasons? Pilgrim shoes on the mascot? Oh, you mean the BullCockShit fruit bowl trophy.

You act like KU football is some kind of power house with Rascal Boy at the helm ROFL

Most of us are just happy to be rid of Gill. We're not idiots. We'll be happy to win a few and just get competitive. We don't have delusions of grandeur.

Good lord, we were one of the worst programs in D1 the last couple of years. The only way to go is up.

Isn't it ok for us to feel a little upbeat about getting better?

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-10-2012, 09:02 AM
Most of us are just happy to be rid of Gill. We're not idiots. We'll be happy to win a few and just get competitive. We don't have delusions of grandeur.

Good lord, we were one of the worst programs in D1 the last couple of years. The only way to go is up.

Isn't it ok for us to feel a little upbeat about getting better?

That's fine, but your little buddy assures us that the Big Bevo got even stronga with the addition of 2 super duper high caliber teams. MU just had to get away from the impending monster of a conference and the SEC will be a cakewalk in comparison :).

Saul Good
04-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Teams bounce back all the time. Mizzou did after '71 and '85.

Mizzou didn't go winless in conference in 1985. We did, however, rebound to make a bowl game following our only season without a conference win.

Maybe Kansas can finally do the same in this, their 11th try at rebounding following a winless conference season.

DaKCMan AP
04-10-2012, 09:10 AM
ROFL I don't hate him. He's a Gator. But isn't it one or the other? Muschamp can't have both can he? From what I've seen, Driskel is much more athletic than Brissett and his throws look stronger, but Brissett has more maturity and more pocket presence. I suppose if I wasn't so impatient, I'd be all Driskel.

Oh and Reed still looks lost and can't catch a ball when anyone is near him. I don't know why we're still trying to force the issue on him. It is tiresome and it better not cost us first downs.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the 2 QBs. It's a good problem to have. Both are very capable and both need to show rapid growth from their true freshman seasons.

Reed is a maddening player. He has so much athletic ability and size yet can't put it all together. If AC Leonard can stay out of trouble and Clay Burton makes a quick transition, Reed may lose his PT. Especially with two of the top 2012 TEs Colin Thompson and Kent Taylor joining the team.

Braincase
04-10-2012, 09:26 AM
Mizzou didn't go winless in conference in 1985. We did, however, rebound to make a bowl game following our only season without a conference win.

Maybe Kansas can finally do the same in this, their 11th try at rebounding following a winless conference season.

I'm fairly realistic about Kansas football. We've got a long way to go. We don't have plans to teach people how the game is played. That would be delusional. I'll settle for being better.

Saul Good
04-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I'm fairly realistic about Kansas football. We've got a long way to go. We don't have plans to teach people how the game is played. That would be delusional. I'll settle for being better.

Damned reasonable expectations...

Bambi
04-10-2012, 10:10 AM
lol, still goin

Setsuna
04-10-2012, 10:15 AM
I don't disagree with your assessment of the 2 QBs. It's a good problem to have. Both are very capable and both need to show rapid growth from their true freshman seasons.

Reed is a maddening player. He has so much athletic ability and size yet can't put it all together. If AC Leonard can stay out of trouble and Clay Burton makes a quick transition, Reed may lose his PT. Especially with two of the top 2012 TEs Colin Thompson and Kent Taylor joining the team.

I hear ya about the QBs. Murphy pretty much took himself out of the running when he threw that pick in no man's land. Ah well. I hope Reed does lose PT. He isn't a true receiver and that shows when he can't get one foot in for anything. He reminds me a bit of Deonte/Dionte whatever. Except Thompson had no excuse and I suppose Reed does.

Braincase
04-10-2012, 10:16 AM
Damned reasonable expectations...

More reasonable than some fans of any team.

ohiobronco2
04-20-2012, 02:56 PM
http://www.gatorsports.com/article/20120419/ARTICLES/120419486/1136