WTF Mike Silver says we are the 28th best team in the NFL

[Mr. Arrowhead]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--post-nfl-draft-rankings.html;_ylt=ApRKyYM154_dYoqdOn4WWawLcykA;_ylu=X3oDMTFsYmxwdDFlBG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dGh vcgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXhUZW1w;_ylg=X3oDMTFxY2tjOXA4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDB HBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnMEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3

1. New York Giants: Is general manager Jerry Reese trying to get disgruntled defensive end Osi Umenyiora to snap?

2. New England Patriots: If Bill Belichick pulled off a trade in which he managed to swap picks with himself, would his reputation for masterful maneuvering reach an unprecedented plateau?

[ Dan Wetzel: Pats move up twice during first round in a dramatic shift in strategy ]

3. Green Bay Packers: Yo, Ted Thompson, feeling a bit defensive – and does having a 28-year-old superstar quarterback impact your thinking much?

4. Baltimore Ravens: When second-round draft pick Courtney Upshaw lines up across from new teammate Michael Oher in training camp, will their biological and surrogate parents be there to cheer them on?

5. San Francisco 49ers: How happy is Jim Harbaugh that the Niners drafted a receiver whose high school nickname was "E.T." and not "Edward Scissorhands"?

6. Houston Texans: With the drafting of Wade Phillips' newest pass-rushing toy, will the Texans' defense be Mercilus in 2012?

7. Pittsburgh Steelers: Got beef?

[ Les Carpenter: Draft picks spend more time in Radio City than anticipated ]

8. Detroit Lions: If the decision-makers in the Lions' war room "listened to our board" and started speaking in Matt Millen's voice, would the team's medical staff pass out handfuls of clozapine?

9. Atlanta Falcons: Hey, Thomas Dimitroff – if second-round pick Peter Konz could play guard and center at the same time, would you have made another Julio Jones-style trade to get him sixth overall?

10. Philadelphia Eagles: After assuring offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg that Philly's plan to use a third-round pick on former Arizona quarterback Nick Foles was "a great one", was Michael Vick tempted to add, "By the way – who's Nick Foles?"

11. New Orleans Saints: When Saints general manager Mickey Loomis called in his third-round pick of Regina defensive tackle Akiem Hicks Friday night, was NFL commissioner Roger Goodell tempted to grab the phone and interject, "Yeah, we know – we've got your war room wiretapped …"

[ Fantasy: A dozen draftees bound to make an immediate fantasy impact ]

12. Denver Broncos: Will Brock Osweiler become the tallest-ever teammate to bend down and polish Peyton Manning's dress shoes before a Quarterbacks' Night Out at training camp?

13. Dallas Cowboys: What was the Wonderlic score of the Dallas Morning News website editor who posted this headline about first-round draft pick "Morrris" Claiborne?

14. New York Jets: Am I the only one who wonders whether, based on their 2011 performance, the Jets should have drafted an offensive lineman before the sixth round?

15. Cincinnati Bengals: After Rutgers receiver Mohamed Sanu got a prank call telling him the Bengals were taking him in the first round Thursday night, shouldn't Redskins tight end Chris Cooley have been considered the prime suspect?

Notre Dame WR Michael Floyd is headed to Arizona. (AP)

16. Arizona Cardinals: If I'd been at Larry Fitzgerald's house for the first round of this year's draft, would he have reacted to the selection of Notre Dame receiver Michael Floyd by racing jubilantly through his open-air living room and jumping into the pool?

[Yahoo! Sports Shop: Buy NFL player T-shirts and team gear]

17. San Diego Chargers: After learning that Chargers GM A.J. Smith had called him a "mean, nasty man", shouldn't first-round pick Melvin Ingram have extended his hand and retorted, "Pot, meet kettle"?

18. Carolina Panthers: How crazy is it that this year's No. 1 pick, Boston College middle linebacker Luke Kuechly, is smaller than last year's No. 1, quarterback Cam Newton?

19. Buffalo Bills: When general manager Buddy Nix described the Bills as "riverboat gamblers" after trading up to get North Carolina State wideout T.J. Graham in the third round, why did I immediately picture this body of water?

20. Chicago Bears: Will the new receiving tandem of Brandon Marshall and second-round pick Alshon Jeffery cause more havoc in opposing secondaries, or in the Bears' locker room?

21. Washington Redskins: When the 'Skins released quarterback John Beck on Saturday, was he humming my altered-lyric version of this iconic '90s tune from his alt-rock namesake?

22. St. Louis Rams: In an effort to help veteran Cortland Finnegan mentor newly drafted cornerbacks Janoris Jenkins and Trumaine Johnson, will coach Jeff Fisher provide the former Titans standout with a Taser gun?

[ Rams' war room: Roll dice on Janoris Jenkin | Select next T.O. ]

23. Tennessee Titans: After NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock described second-round pick Zach Brown as "allergic to contact", how awesome would it have been to see Brown fly across the set at Radio City Music Hall, slam Mayock into the orchestra pit and yell "Gesundheit"?

24. Seattle Seahawks: What's more surprising – that Pete Carroll and Jon Schneider drafted a quarterback in the third round, or that Wisconsin's Russell Wilson is the team's highest-drafted passer in nearly two decades?

25. Oakland Raiders: How disconcerting is it that post-Al Davis Raiders are resolutely boring on draft day, and can't new GM Reggie McKenzie just indulge us with one ultra-swift, lowly regarded "reach" pick per year?

26. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: If the Muscle Hamster runs wild at Raymond James Stadium, will they put a large, spinning wheel next to the pirate ship in Doug Martin's honor?

27. Cleveland Browns: As of Thursday night, is Colt McCoy nostalgic for a little one-on-one time with Brian Daboll?

28. Kansas City Chiefs: Do Scott Pioli and Romeo Crennel seem overly optimistic in their assessment of the Chiefs' talent level – or am I just so pessimistic about K.C.'s quarterback situation that it completely clouds my thinking?

29. Jacksonville Jaguars: To realize value as the 70th overall pick, would Bryan Anger have to figure out a way to get footballs to explode upon making contact with a punt returner?

30. Minnesota Vikings: Yo, Matt Kalil – while proclaiming how much more Minnesota than California you are, were you neglecting to account for the possibility that the team which drafted you might soon be West Coast-bound?

31. Miami Dolphins: Does Jeff Irleand's latest rebuilding project involve replacing his best player – and, if so, why do I sense another protest brewing?

[ Jason Cole: Colts use Day 2 of draft to get Andrew Luck weapons in form of 2 TEs and a WR ]

32. Indianapolis Colts: Now that former Stanford tight end Coby Fleener has successfully convinced an NFL team he was worthy of being selected with the 34th overall pick, will he grow his hair out and lose the whole Rob Gronkowski impersonation bit?

[htismaqe]

Whether or not I disagree with his #28 ranking, I ABSOLUTELY understand his explanation.

[Thig Lyfe]

Matt Cassel

[Skyy God]

Yeah, that's about right. Failing to address the QB problem is total lunacy.

[Direckshun]

I think everybody from 12 on down is beatable.

The problem is, like three of our first four games are against teams in the top 11.

[BigMeatballDave]

28th? No way.

But its hard to win without a QB.

Everyone on the planet sees this except for Scott.

[Skyy God]

But we've got a SB-contending team!

/truefans

[keg in kc]

28th? No way.

But its hard to win without a QB.

Everyone on the planet sees this except for Scott.That's the misperception that people have. I think Scott knows it's hard to win without a quarterback. That's why his first move was to acquire one he believed in. The disconnect is that Scott apparently doesn't see Matt Cassel the way the rest of us do.

[RealSNR]

Retarded. If we had taken a shitty mid-round QB would he have changed his tune?

[BoneKrusher]

it's hard to argue his ranking when the most important player on the team is the weak link.

[DJ's left nut]

A 7-9 team that got absolutely annihilated in the playoffs of it's 'good' season of the last 1/2 decade just treated the draft like they were Super Bowl winners that just needed to add some depth and build for the future.

28 seems extreme, but 20 wouldn't.

He's right - the powers that be have wildly overestimated the overall talent of this team. The squad is not appreciably better than the 2010 squad that needed an incredibly soft schedule to go 10-6 and get trucked at home in round 1.

This team has 11-5 and 1 and done as its absolute ceiling and a 5-11 floor. It's stuck in that 12-22 range where it's really just subject to blind luck and the whims of the schedule on any given season.

And Pioli showed absolutely no urgency or aggression in this draft at all. It really does suggest a confidence that I just do not understand.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Whether or not I disagree with his #28 ranking, I ABSOLUTELY understand his explanation.

Yep.

And until they prove otherwise, I don't think his ranking is that far off.

[Jerm]

Not surprised...Silver is a troll and takes any and every chance to dog the Chiefs no matter how delusional it is.

Even with Cassel this team is an upper half of the league team with a top 10 defense...we'll be just fine.

[RealSNR]

27. Cleveland Browns: As of Thursday night, is Colt McCoy nostalgic for a little one-on-one time with Brian Daboll?

What the fuck is this supposed to mean? :mad:

[Mr. Laz]

Who?

[L.A. Chieffan]

Haha, people are in for a rude awakening

[Mr. Laz]

Haha, people are in for a rude awakening
and you will be so happy





can't wait for LA to get a team

[OnTheWarpath15]

A 7-9 team that got absolutely annihilated in the playoffs of it's 'good' season of the last 1/2 decade just treated the draft like they were Super Bowl winners that just needed to add some depth and build for the future.

28 seems extreme, but 20 wouldn't.

He's right - the powers that be have wildly overestimated the overall talent of this team. The squad is not appreciably better than the 2010 squad that needed an incredibly soft schedule to go 10-6 and get trucked at home in round 1.

This team has 11-5 and 1 and done as its absolute ceiling and a 5-11 floor. It's stuck in that 12-22 range where it's really just subject to blind luck and the whims of the schedule on any given season.

And Pioli showed absolutely no urgency or aggression in this draft at all. It really does suggest a confidence that I just do not understand.

And so have the fans.

Good post, DJ.

[L.A. Chieffan]

and you will be so happy





can't wait for LA to get a team

Hell yeah, when we start 6-0 and Cassel looks to be headed for another pro-bowl idiot fake fans like you will be begging for redemption.

[Just Passin' By]

Terrible job by Silver, but that's nothing new for him.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Minus the QB, the chiefs are in the top 5 in terms of overall talent

[OnTheWarpath15]

Minus the QB, the chiefs are in the top 5 in terms of overall talent

ROFL

Holy shit.

[Direckshun]

Yep.

And until they prove otherwise, I don't think his ranking is that far off.

You're wrong.

A team that went 7-9 against a HARD schedule while missing its best players on offense and defense, a key contributor on offense, and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

That's not bottom-third talent. That's, at the very least, mid-third talent. I'd put us towards the top of the mid third.

[Garcia Bronco]

You're wrong.

A team that went 7-9 against a HARD schedule while missing its best players on offense and defense, a key contributor on offense, and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

That's not bottom-third talent. That's, at the very least, mid-third talent. I'd put us towards the top of the mid third.

I'd say you had a backup in the whole season at QB.

[BigMeatballDave]

bROFL

Holy shit.

Haters gotta hate.

You cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB.

[Coogs]

and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

Actually playing backups QBs all but the last 3 games of the season.

[BigCatDaddy]

The truth is probably somewhere between this

Yep.

And until they prove otherwise, I don't think his ranking is that far off.


and this


Minus the QB, the chiefs are in the top 5 in terms of overall talent

[keg in kc]

A 7-9 team that got absolutely annihilated in the playoffs of it's 'good' season of the last 1/2 decade just treated the draft like they were Super Bowl winners that just needed to add some depth and build for the future.

28 seems extreme, but 20 wouldn't.

He's right - the powers that be have wildly overestimated the overall talent of this team. The squad is not appreciably better than the 2010 squad that needed an incredibly soft schedule to go 10-6 and get trucked at home in round 1.

This team has 11-5 and 1 and done as its absolute ceiling and a 5-11 floor. It's stuck in that 12-22 range where it's really just subject to blind luck and the whims of the schedule on any given season.

And Pioli showed absolutely no urgency or aggression in this draft at all. It really does suggest a confidence that I just do not understand.I don't disagree with much except for the idea that the 2012 team can't possibly be appreciably better than the 2010 version. They're better at virtually every position on both lines (obviously in several cases because the same players are better players now than they were two years ago), they're much better at wide receiver, they're likely better at running back (even if Charles isn't the old Charles), they're better at linebacker both inside and out. They're either going to be equal or better at safety. The only positions on the entire roster that don't look to be improved are corner (where the starters are at the least adequate but the depth is questionable) and quarterback (which is unfortunately exactly the same).

And all of that, aside from the Poe pick, was the case before the draft. Which is why I actually liked that they drafted the way that they did, as opposed to making need picks/safe picks on players with less upside.

I think the team as a whole is built to win 10 or 11 games. The question is how many games the quarterback position will cost them. With someone appreciably better than Cassel behind center (say Manning) I think they'd actually be a playoff favorite. All this assuming the injury bug last year was an aberration and not a trend.

Unfortunately we're stuck with Cassel, and there isn't anybody on the bench who's going to come in and save us. Although at least it won't be Palko. Who by himself probably cost us several games last year.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Never heard of him but he's obviously a fucking moron. If we are healthy this year we're competing.Charles,Hillis....Bowe,Breaston, Baldwin and rookie. Line is 100% better than what we fielded last year and now we have a NT that will allow our linebackers to all make the probowl. Fuck this moron !

[boogblaster]

yea id say we're ranked alittl' low .. 16-20 would be closer .. but i can see his point bout our leak-link .....

[OnTheWarpath15]

You're wrong.

A team that went 7-9 against a HARD schedule while missing its best players on offense and defense, a key contributor on offense, and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

That's not bottom-third talent. That's, at the very least, mid-third talent. I'd put us towards the top of the mid third.

Until that "talent" translates to wins on the field, he's not that far off.

I think he's pretty damn close from 1-23. You could argue a spot here/there.

From 24 I'd go like this:

24 - Oakland

25 - Tampa

26 - KC

27 - Miami

28 - Seattle

29 - Cleveland

30 - Minnesota

31 - Indy

32 - Jacksonville

[BigMeatballDave]

I'd say you had a backup in the whole season at QB.

LOL

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I'd say you had a backup in the whole season at QB.

You're absolutely right and shut the fuck up !

[Quesadilla Joe]

What Vegas thinks...

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3255/aviaryvegasinsidercompi.png

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

[Pasta Little Brioni]

7 wins with Palko minus Berry, Charles, and Mo says otherwise

[DJ's left nut]

You're wrong.

A team that went 7-9 against a HARD schedule while missing its best players on offense and defense, a key contributor on offense, and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

That's not bottom-third talent. That's, at the very least, mid-third talent. I'd put us towards the top of the mid third.

They'd have gone 6-10 with Cassel as the starter all season, IMO. Cassel wins the Steelers game and loses both of the games that Orton won. The backup QB argument doesn't wash - they had a better QB for nearly 20% of the season than they're going to have next year.

Then they punted the draft.

Given the fact that they're getting 3 good players back in some capacity (maybe 100%...until Moeaki gets hurt again), they should be better. And the Winston pickup will help a great deal.

They're still a 1 and done squad at their best.

[BigMeatballDave]

What Vegas thinks...

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3255/aviaryvegasinsidercompi.png

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

A lot of people are going to lose betting on Denver.

Oh, and you're a welcher

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ROFL Broncos 7 to 1

[Garcia Bronco]

Seriously though...if KC would just draft a first round QB and develop him...you guys would be one of the best teams on paper. Maybe you guys could end that 19 years playoff winless streak and NFL record 7 in-a-row.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ROFL still laughing

[Bowser]

28th best in the NFL, or 28th best draft?

Either way....

[Mr. Laz]

Minus the QB, the chiefs are in the top 5 in the AFC in terms of overall talent
FYP

You give us Payton Manning this offseason or by some miracle Drew Brees bails and we get him ... imo we are instantly among Pitt,Balt,Pats etc in the AFC.

As it sits, we are going to struggle to make the playoffs.

[Direckshun]

Until that "talent" translates to wins on the field, he's not that far off.

I think he's pretty damn close from 1-23. You could argue a spot here/there.

From 24 I'd go like this:

24 - Oakland

25 - Tampa

26 - KC

27 - Miami

28 - Seattle

29 - Cleveland

30 - Minnesota

31 - Indy

32 - Jacksonville

Clinically dumb.

But since you've provided zero reasoning to back this up, I'll just reiterate the point that it's clinically dumb.

[Bearcat]

I dunno, they've only gone two decades without winning a playoff game.... I think the media should respect them for at least another decade, until they've really, really proven they're no better than the Browns.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Haters gotta hate.

You cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB.

Again, here's what people refuse to acknowledge when it comes to my opinions.

I'm not saying this team is devoid of talent.

I'm simply saying that we don't know exactly what we have.

The overwhelming majority of this board has already declared our young players and FA acquisitions as successes.

We haven't seen enough of these players to make that claim.

Add to that, two of our best players are coming back from an injury that typically sees a decline in performance - and thge QB situation, and I see a team with a metric fuckton of question marks.

I think DJ hit the nail on the head.

If everything goes perfect, this might be a 11-5 team.

But this team could just as easily win 4-6 games - and not necessarily because of injury - but because these kids with little-to-no experience don't end up being anywhere near as good as this fanbase (and organization) think they are.

[DJ's left nut]

What Vegas thinks...


The Ravens and Cowboys are the only 2 halfway decent bets in the lot. The rest of them are just not good enough bets to justify putting money down this early.

The Broncos are a sucker bet from Vegas. Gotta love the sharks, man. They know how to make some easy money...

[Bowser]

I dunno, they've only gone two decades without winning a playoff game.... I think the media should respect them for at least another decade, until they've really, really proven they're no better than the Browns.

Keep doubting Donald Stephenson!

[Ceej]

The explanation makes sense.

But worse than Seattle and St. Louis??

I beg to diff.

[Bowser]

The Ravens and Cowboys are the only 2 halfway decent bets in the lot. The rest of them are just not good enough bets to justify putting money down this early.

The Broncos are a sucker bet from Vegas. Gotta love the sharks, man. They know how to make some easy money...

No shit. I'd love to see the millions they make after the season on Bronco wagers.

[DJ's left nut]

The explanation makes sense.

But worse than Seattle and St. Louis??

I beg to diff.

Flynn and Bradford. Yeah - that's all it takes.

That's how little regard there is league-wide for Matt Cassel.

He's truly truly awful.

[Direckshun]

They'd have gone 6-10 with Cassel as the starter all season, IMO. Cassel wins the Steelers game and loses both of the games that Orton won. The backup QB argument doesn't wash - they had a better QB for nearly 20% of the season than they're going to have next year.

Doesn't matter how talented the guy is in Orton's case, because Cassel's been taking the 1st string snaps since camp opened.

So while Cassel's not exactly the best QB in the league, he's had months of preparation as the #1 guy on the roster over everybody else. And almost 6 months of prep over Orton.

It's different if we're talking on paper, but we're not. We're talking about the heat of the season -- Orton came in with basically a couple weeks of training and we were still able to win with that.

Thanks, partially, to his great effort. Thanks, partially, to a relatively talented team.

Then they punted the draft.

Where they finally finished our transition to the 3-4, and fortified our offensive line, and stacked the team with relatively solid depth, which people like yourself have been begging us to do for how long?

Given the fact that they're getting 3 good players back in some capacity (maybe 100%...until Moeaki gets hurt again), they should be better. And the Winston pickup will help a great deal.

They're still a 1 and done squad at their best.

I don't disagree.

The Chiefs still have work to go. Acquiring better talent, and developing the talent they have.

But let's call a spade a spade here. This is not a Bottom 10 team.

[Bearcat]

Haters gotta hate.

You cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB.

A 7-9 team won a playoff game 2 years ago and Tim Tebow won a playoff game this past season... it's not like any team is that far off in such a mediocre league. Hell, the Chiefs almost won the AFCW and they were awful last year.... to the ship!

[suds79]

I think we'll be better then that but there are two issues that could kill us.

# 1 - The QB. Hard to do much when you have the 23rd or so best starting QB in the league.

# 2 - We just assume that Jamaal Charles will be his same ole self coming off that ACL.

It doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see how this next season could go horribly wrong.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Clinically dumb.

But since you've provided zero reasoning to back this up, I'll just reiterate the point that it's clinically dumb.

Who should we be ahead of on that list?

Oakland? We're what, 2-4 against them under Pioli, without a win at Arrowhead?

Tampa? We'll find out this year, but give me Freeman, their draft and FA signings, and I'll take my chances in a tough division.

7 wins in 3 seasons - buoyed by a 10-win season against the easiest schedule in 10 years. (99 Rams)

No one in the national media is going to give them a second glance until they prove they can win on Sundays.

[Direckshun]

Again, here's what people refuse to acknowledge when it comes to my opinions.

I'm not saying this team is devoid of talent.

I'm simply saying that we don't know exactly what we have.

The overwhelming majority of this board has already declared our young players and FA acquisitions as successes.

We haven't seen enough of these players to make that claim.

Add to that, two of our best players are coming back from an injury that typically sees a decline in performance - and thge QB situation, and I see a team with a metric ****ton of question marks.

I think DJ hit the nail on the head.

If everything goes perfect, this might be a 11-5 team.

But this team could just as easily win 4-6 games - and not necessarily because of injury - but because these kids with little-to-no experience don't end up being anywhere near as good as this fanbase (and organization) think they are.

The point that I'm taking issue with is that you see the 4-6 option as the most likely.

All due respect, I call bullshit.

I don't doubt the question marks, but I'm very comfortable with things ending up more positive than negative with the vast majority of them.

My biggest pessimist POV is on Charles' recovery. On most of the other risks, I'm cautiously optimistic.

[evolve27]

Realistic assessment finally.

[Ceej]

Flynn and Bradford. Yeah - that's all it takes.

That's how little regard there is league-wide for Matt Cassel.

He's truly truly awful.

I certainly understand that's why.

But weren't most people considering Flynn - Cassel v. 2?

I just know KC is better top to bottom then both Seattle and StL.

Regardless, it's some dude's preseason power rankings. Just good for message board conversation.

[Just Passin' By]

Rams wins totals the past 5 seasons:

2
7
1
2
3

and he's got the Rams at #22. His rankings are a joke.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think we'll be better then that but there are two issues that could kill us.

# 1 - The QB. Hard to do much when you have the 23rd or so best starting QB in the league.

# 2 - We just assume that Jamaal Charles will be his same ole self coming off that ACL.

It doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see how this next season could go horribly wrong.

Hater.

[Bowser]

"Bottom 10 team" is certainly debatable, but the one thing that is NOT debatable is that if this team wins, it will most certainly be in spite of the most important position on the team. And if they DO finish bottom 10, you can be assured that a larger reason for that will be beacuse of our quarterback.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The point that I'm taking issue with is that you see the 4-6 option as the most likely.

All due respect, I call bullshit.

I don't doubt the question marks, but I'm very comfortable with things ending up more positive than negative with the vast majority of them.

My biggest pessimist POV is on Charles' recovery. On most of the other risks, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Where did I say that?

My best guess as of right now is 8 wins.

[Direckshun]

Who should we be ahead of on that list?

Oakland? We're what, 2-4 against them under Pioli, without a win at Arrowhead?

Tampa? We'll find out this year, but give me Freeman, their draft and FA signings, and I'll take my chances in a tough division.

7 wins in 3 seasons - buoyed by a 10-win season against the easiest schedule in 10 years. (99 Rams)

No one in the national media is going to give them a second glance until they prove they can win on Sundays.

I'd put us ahead of about half the teams in the league right now.

I can't help but feel like you have this overwhelming double standard with the Chiefs.

If the Raiders walked out of the draft fortified in the trenches, and we walked out of the draft with 3 draft picks, one of which was on a guard, you'd rightfully downgrade us to the league's cellar.

But in a season where we're playoff bound over them if we don't start Palko without our best players on both sides of the ball, and the Raiders walked away with absolutely nothing in the draft, you're still willing to give them a thumbs up.

[Direckshun]

Where did I say that?

My best guess as of right now is 8 wins.

And yet, 27th in the league.

I guess that means 26 teams have a .500+ record this year.

Edit: Correction, you said 26th.

[HemiEd]

Haters gotta hate.

You cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB.

That is his deal anymore, pure hate.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd put us ahead of about half the teams in the league right now.

I can't help but feel like you have this overwhelming double standard with the Chiefs.

If the Raiders walked out of the draft fortified in the trenches, and we walked out of the draft with 3 draft picks, one of which was on a guard, you'd rightfully downgrade us to the league's cellar.

But in a season where we're playoff bound over them if we don't start Palko without our best players on both sides of the ball, and the Raiders walked away with absolutely nothing in the draft, you're still willing to give them a thumbs up.

What is our record against the Raiders under Pioli?

[ThaVirus]

Wait, I had heard about Claiborne's Wonderlic... But did he actually spell his name "Morrris"?

[BigMeatballDave]

With all the injuries against a tough schedule they win 7, but now only 4-6?

Okay.

[Ceej]

Would anyone here honestly want the Rams or Seahawks roster?

The ENTIRE roster; not just QBs gentlemen.

[Direckshun]

What is our record against the Raiders under Pioli?

We can play the who-has-beaten-who as a determiner of who's better, if that's the rankings system you want to employ.

But we both know where it ends up: a big, retarded circle that means nothing.

We defeated the Packers, FFS.

[HemiEd]

ROFL Broncos 7 to 1

Yeah, I would like to get some of Vegas's side of that one.

[DJ's left nut]

But let's call a spade a spade here. This is not a Bottom 10 team.

Remove QB from the equation and I'm 100% comfortable saying they're not a bottom 10 team. I'd still argue they're not a top 10 team, but at least not a bottom 10.

With Matt Cassel under center, there's no way in hell I'm comfortable categorically stating that this in not a bottom 10 team.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And yet, 27th in the league.

I guess that means 26 teams have a .500+ record this year.

Edit: Correction, you said 26th.

Funny, the Broncos went 8-8 last year and won a playoff game, something we haven't done in nearly 20 years - yet you'd put us ahead of them.

You're arguing that we're better than our 7-9 record.

So what does record have to do with it?

[Mr. Laz]

I'd put us ahead of about half the teams in the league right now.

I can't help but feel like you have this overwhelming double standard with the Chiefs.

If the Raiders walked out of the draft fortified in the trenches, and we walked out of the draft with 3 draft picks, one of which was on a guard, you'd rightfully downgrade us to the league's cellar.

But in a season where we're playoff bound over them if we don't start Palko without our best players on both sides of the ball, and the Raiders walked away with absolutely nothing in the draft, you're still willing to give them a thumbs up.
he's among the group that has bitched about Pioli from Day 1.

Pioli is a dictator ...
Pioli forced Haley to .... *insert player/coach/play call here*
Pioli is mean to janitors ...

You aren't going to get ANY benefit of the doubt or anything else from him.

Just scream Pioli and Cassel suck if you want him to cheer.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We can play the who-has-beaten-who as a determiner of who's better, if that's the rankings system you want to employ.

But we both know where it ends up: a big, retarded circle that means nothing.

We defeated the Packers, FFS.

We play the Raiders twice a fucking year.

Much bigger sample size than a one-off against GB.

[ChiefRocka]

it's hard to argue his ranking when the most important player on the team is the weak link.

Truer words have never been spoken...

[Rasputin]

Bfd. It's best to play the spoiler anyways, but yet Casseled. :spock:

[OnTheWarpath15]

he's among the group that has bitched about Pioli from Day 1.

Pioli is a dictator ...
Pioli forced Haley to .... *insert player/coach/play call here*
Pioli is mean to janitors ...

You aren't going to get ANY benefit of the doubt or anything else from him.

Just scream Pioli and Cassel suck if you want him to cheer.

Why should anyone give them the benefit of the doubt, other than to be a flaming homer?

They so-called "Executive of the Decade" has compiled a roster worthy of 21 wins in 3 seasons.

Until they prove otherwise, they are what they are.

[Bowser]

Remove QB from the equation and I'm 100% comfortable saying they're not a bottom 10 team. I'd still argue they're not a top 10 team, but at least not a bottom 10.

With Matt Cassel under center, there's no way in hell I'm comfortable categorically stating that this in not a bottom 10 team.

This is a necessary repost.

On top of Cassel, we still have Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator, who has historically been crap as a coordinator. Then there is Romeo, who has exactly *one* playoff season as a head coach.

Regardless of how you feel our draft went and how it sets us up for this season and seasons to come, we still have to overcome Cassel and Daboll's shortcomings, which is going to take more than good intentions and a smile.

[ChiefRocka]

Wait, I had heard about Claiborne's Wonderlic... But did he actually spell his name "Morrris"?

B
A
D
C
A
B
D
A
D
D
A
B





fuck this...peace, I'm out homie...fastest Wonderlic finisher!!!

[Direckshun]

Funny, the Broncos went 8-8 last year and won a playoff game, something we haven't done in nearly 20 years - yet you'd put us ahead of them.

You're arguing that we're better than our 7-9 record.

So what does record have to do with it?

I would not put us ahead of the Broncos. They have a HOF QB right now.

I would have put them ahead with Tebow this time last year, along with the vast majority of NFL speculators. That run they had was magical, not something you can rely on occurring regularly.

You've just hedged your bets in a clever way as to allow you to speculate freely without having to worry about getting burnt.

A crappy team, but manages 8 wins against a legitimately tough schedule. That means the only way you're wrong is if Cassel pulls magic out of his ass and plays like a Pro Bowler, guiding this team to a 10+ win season and a playoff run.

I think this team is better now than its 7-9 record indicated last year.

You think the team is worse, I suppose? Yet will improve on its record, with our best players on both side of the ball returning.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This is a necessary repost.

On top of Cassel, we still have Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator, who has historically been crap as a coordinator. Then there is Romeo, who has exactly *one* playoff season as a head coach.

Regardless of how you feel our draft went and how it sets us up for this season and seasons to come, we still have to overcome Cassel and Daboll's shortcomings, which is going to take more than good intentions and a smile.

Pure hate.

[Direckshun]

Why should anyone give them the benefit of the doubt, other than to be a flaming homer?

They so-called "Executive of the Decade" has compiled a roster worthy of 21 wins in 3 seasons.

Until they prove otherwise, they are what they are.

You can qualify that by saying the Chiefs have had two shots at a true franchise QB in four offseasons -- reaching for Dalton or ripping Manning from Elway's clutches -- and has had to essentially completely rebuild a shit roster that just went 2-14.

[DJ's left nut]

he's among the group that has bitched about Pioli from Day 1.

Pioli is a dictator ...
Pioli forced Haley to .... *insert player/coach/play call here*
Pioli is mean to janitors ...

You aren't going to get ANY benefit of the doubt or anything else from him.

Just scream Pioli and Cassel suck if you want him to cheer.

Why should Pioli get the benefit of the doubt?

He inherited Hali, Johnson, Flowers, Charles, Carr, Albert and Bowe yet with that much talent at incredibly key positions he's managed to turn in 2 awful seasons with 1 mediocre season sandwiched in the middle.

Do SOMETHING and he'll get the benefit of the doubt from me.

All I see is someone that is still coasting off his NE pedigree. But the problem is that he's gone from NE and yet NE is doing the same thing, year in, year out, that they did when he was there. Kinda suggests that maybe he wasn't the reason for those successes now doesn't it?

When he can reverse the ratios from having 1 2011 draft for 3 2009, 10 and 12 drafts to have 3 2011 drafts to every 1 of those abortions, I'll consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But hey - at least he's taking his undersized injury cases and kick returners in the 4th and 5th rounds now instead of the 2nd. So he's learning.

[Direckshun]

Pure hate.

Again, all due respect, but get off the cross.

I won't speak for asshat Laz, but I haven't slung "hate" around in this thread at all.

You want to swim against the stream on this team on CP?

Be ready to handle it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I would not put us ahead of the Broncos. They have a HOF QB right now.

I would have put them ahead with Tebow this time last year, along with the vast majority of NFL speculators. That run they had was magical, not something you can rely on occurring regularly.

You've just hedged your bets in a clever way as to allow you to speculate freely without having to worry about getting burnt.

A crappy team, but manages 8 wins against a legitimately tough schedule. That means the only way you're wrong is if Cassel pulls magic out of his ass and plays like a Pro Bowler, guiding this team to a 10+ win season and a playoff run.

I think this team is better now than its 7-9 record indicated last year.

You think the team is worse, I suppose? Yet will improve on its record, with our best players on both side of the ball returning.

And there you go again - assuming the worst, though the evidence points to the contrary.

If Charles and Berry return and play at 100% of their previous ability, this team should theoreticallywin more games.

But there's little evidence to suggest that will happen. Most athletes coming back from ACL surgery don't get back to form until the second year post-surgery, if at all.

[Bowser]

Pure hate.

You forgot "unmitigated" and/or "unsubstantiated".

[DJ's left nut]

You can qualify that by saying the Chiefs have had two shots at a true franchise QB in four offseasons -- reaching for Dalton or ripping Manning from Elway's clutches -- and has had to essentially completely rebuild a shit roster that just went 2-14.

It was nowhere near a shit roster.

Very few GMs in the last decade have inherited as much high-end talent as Pioli did when he came into this organization.

And he's done jack shit with it.

[DJ's left nut]

Again, all due respect, but get off the cross.

I won't speak for asshat Laz, but I haven't slung "hate" around in this thread at all.

You want to swim against the stream on this team on CP?

Be ready to handle it.

Necessary re-post.

Laz is certainly an asshat.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You can qualify that by saying the Chiefs have had two shots at a true franchise QB in four offseasons -- reaching for Dalton or ripping Manning from Elway's clutches -- and has had to essentially completely rebuild a shit roster that just went 2-14.

They have a shot EVERY year.

They choose not to take it.

Ask Washington how to get a QB when you're not drafting Top 2.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why should Pioli get the benefit of the doubt?

He inherited Hali, Johnson, Flowers, Charles, Carr, Albert and Bowe yet with that much talent at incredibly key positions he's managed to turn in 2 awful seasons with 1 mediocre season sandwiched in the middle.

Do SOMETHING and he'll get the benefit of the doubt from me.

All I see is someone that is still coasting off his NE pedigree. But the problem is that he's gone from NE and yet NE is doing the same thing, year in, year out, that they did when he was there. Kinda suggests that maybe he wasn't the reason for those successes now doesn't it?

When he can reverse the ratios from having 1 2011 draft for 3 2009, 10 and 12 drafts to have 3 2011 drafts to every 1 of those abortions, I'll consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But hey - at least he's taking his undersized injury cases and kick returners in the 4th and 5th rounds now instead of the 2nd. So he's learning.

I am quoting this post to show my agreement with it's content.

Hater.

[Direckshun]

Why should Pioli get the benefit of the doubt?

He inherited Hali, Johnson, Flowers, Charles, Carr, Albert and Bowe yet with that much talent at incredibly key positions he's managed to turn in 2 awful seasons with 1 mediocre season sandwiched in the middle.

Do SOMETHING and he'll get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Built the deepest team on both sides of the ball that we've seen in a really, really long time.

Developed talent that was un- and under-developed under Herm.

Has had two good drafts ('10 and '11) to one bad one ('09). Even including the 2009 draft, arguably no team in the NFL has drafted better in that three year span. And has signed relatively strong value guys in the offseasons.

All his coaching hires after 2009 have been rock solid, with the possible exception of Daboll.

[Direckshun]

And there you go again - assuming the worst, though the evidence points to the contrary.

If Charles and Berry return and play at 100% of their previous ability, this team should theoreticallywin more games.

But there's little evidence to suggest that will happen. Most athletes coming back from ACL surgery don't get back to form until the second year post-surgery, if at all.

Are you kidding me?

If they return at 80% of their abilities, a reasonable bet, this team will improve.

Unless you prefer a 100% Jackie Battle and Jon McGraw.

In which case, you can have 'em.

[Direckshun]

They have a shot EVERY year.

They choose not to take it.

Ask Washington how to get a QB when you're not drafting Top 2.

I don't like that trade for us, I really don't. I don't like Griffin enough to toss two first rounders and a second into a hole for him.

This was a pathetic year for QBs. Like the one before it was.

We'll revisit this conversation next year at this time, I'm sure of it.

If the 2013 offseason and draft has come and gone, and Cassel isn't either (a.) replaced, or (b.) clearly holding the spot for the true QBotF that is on the roster as of that moment, I will 100% change my tune.

[DJ's left nut]

Built the deepest team on both sides of the ball that we've seen in a really, really long time.

Developed talent that was un- and under-developed under Herm.

Has had two good drafts ('10 and '11) to one bad one ('09). Even including the 2009 draft, arguably no team in the NFL has drafted better in that three year span. And has signed relatively strong value guys in the offseasons.

All his coaching hires after 2009 have been rock solid, with the possible exception of Daboll.

Pioli was out there doing hand-drills with Johnson?

Bowe is the exact same player now he was 3 years ago. Flowers, Carr and Hali just needed experience. Give me a break with that crap - Pioli gets zero credit for 'developing' a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. They all showed flashes and simply matured and gained experience.

2010 was not a good draft. At best it was average. I've had this discussion with you before, but the bottom line is that he wasted the 2nd round, traded up to get the 4th best TE in the draft (and an injury prone one at that) and apart from his no-brainer in Berry and a nice guard in Asomoah (the same position so many have cried is so easy to fin), added very little reliable talent to this roster in 2010.

His hires have been rock solid? Well apart from Haley being a fucking lunatic - sure. Mostly he just kept a bunch of guys in the organization that was already here and hired Crennel. That's it. His only 'rock solid' hire was Romeo.

[Bowser]

Built the deepest team on both sides of the ball that we've seen in a really, really long time.

Developed talent that was un- and under-developed under Herm.

Has had two good drafts ('10 and '11) to one bad one ('09). Even including the 2009 draft, arguably no team in the NFL has drafted better in that three year span. And has signed relatively strong value guys in the offseasons.

All his coaching hires after 2009 have been rock solid, with the possible exception of Daboll.

It's hard to argue against this, but he had neglected the QB positions for reasons not entirely clear, and that is why he gets flamed.

We are the anti-Colts. They had the QB and not much else*; we have the much more complete roster with nearly nothing at QB. While Manning was healthy, who was doing better?


* Freeney and Mathis are the only two guys I can name off that defense, and Peyton clearly made the other good players on offense better, not to mention how their opponents had to play from behind a majprity of the time.

[Dayze]

http://hookingfoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/theyreshitty.jpg

[Sofa King]

Until that "talent" translates to wins on the field, he's not that far off.

I think he's pretty damn close from 1-23. You could argue a spot here/there.

From 24 I'd go like this:

24 - Oakland

25 - Tampa

26 - KC

27 - Miami

28 - Seattle

29 - Cleveland

30 - Minnesota

31 - Indy

32 - Jacksonville


:spock::spock::spock:

[Direckshun]

It was nowhere near a shit roster.

Very few GMs in the last decade have inherited as much high-end talent as Pioli did when he came into this organization.

And he's done jack shit with it.

Dead wrong. He's developed it.

Carr, Flowers, Dorsey -- all took massive steps forward under the coaches that Pioli's hired.

If you want to take one of those players away from me, claiming they were already going to be that good, I'll give you Flowers, and that's it.

Carr became a #1 corner, and Dorsey became an elite run stopper at the DE position. And we took several players who were underperforming for multiple years before Pioli arrived -- Bowe, Hali, Johnson -- and turned them into All Pros and Pro Bowlers.

Either everybody just coincidentally hit their stride at the same exact moment, or Herm and Carl's talent development was somewhere near terrible, whereas Pioli's has been adequate to great.

[Garcia Bronco]

More like the 28th best team....in Missouri. :P

[HemiEd]

They have a shot EVERY year.

They choose not to take it.

Ask Washington how to get a QB when you're not drafting Top 2.

Would you really have done what the Redskins have done?

They have sold out their future, repeatedly, since Snyder has owned the team.
They have to, they gotta sell the fan base on the hype.
I would not trade talent with the Redskins, and by your very own words earlier, RG3 hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet.
If the Chiefs players haven't he sure as hell hasn't. See how that works?

[Messier]

Why should Pioli get the benefit of the doubt?

He inherited Hali, Johnson, Flowers, Charles, Carr, Albert and Bowe yet with that much talent at incredibly key positions he's managed to turn in 2 awful seasons with 1 mediocre season sandwiched in the middle.

Do SOMETHING and he'll get the benefit of the doubt from me.

All I see is someone that is still coasting off his NE pedigree. But the problem is that he's gone from NE and yet NE is doing the same thing, year in, year out, that they did when he was there. Kinda suggests that maybe he wasn't the reason for those successes now doesn't it?

When he can reverse the ratios from having 1 2011 draft for 3 2009, 10 and 12 drafts to have 3 2011 drafts to every 1 of those abortions, I'll consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But hey - at least he's taking his undersized injury cases and kick returners in the 4th and 5th rounds now instead of the 2nd. So he's learning.

You say that like those players were all playing great before Pioli got here. At the end of '08 if you'd have listed those players and called them great talent, you'd be laughed at. They became great or really good in the last 3 years. Being moved to the 3-4 is the best thing that ever happened to Hali, Johnson is finally putting it together, but 3 years ago he was underachieving.

Also I like how the 2012 draft is already an abortion for you. And they 2010 draft wasn't bad either.

[Direckshun]

Pioli was out there doing hand-drills with Johnson?

Bowe is the exact same player now he was 3 years ago. Flowers, Carr and Hali just needed experience. Give me a break with that crap - Pioli gets zero credit for 'developing' a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. They all showed flashes and simply matured and gained experience.

You can't blame Pioli when prospects don't turn out -- then refuse to credit him when they do.

His coaches, his successes and failures.

2010 was not a good draft. At best it was average. I've had this discussion with you before, but the bottom line is that he wasted the 2nd round, traded up to get the 4th best TE in the draft (and an injury prone one at that) and apart from his no-brainer in Berry and a nice guard in Asomoah (the same position so many have cried is so easy to fin), added very little reliable talent to this roster in 2010.

You're wrong, bud.

Berry, McCluster, Arenas, Asamoah, Moeaki, Lewis?

You can quibble about the values each was taken at, and I'm on record agreeing with you. But we got solid starters at RG and FS and NCB, added a potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki, an All Pro in Berry, and McCluster, whom nobody really has any idea what to do with him.

I understand the hate on the value of some of the players, as well as McCluster. But we got a haul from that draft, which is better than something like 95% of the teams do in every draft.

[DJ's left nut]

You can't blame Pioli when prospects don't turn out -- then refuse to credit him when they do.

His coaches, his successes and failures.



You're wrong, bud.

Berry, McCluster, Arenas, Asamoah, Moeaki, Lewis?

You can quibble about the values each was taken at, and I'm on record agreeing with you. But we got solid starters at RG and FS and NCB, added a potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki, an All Pro in Berry, and McCluster, whom nobody really has any idea what to do with him.

I understand the hate on the value of some of the players, as well as McCluster. But we got a haul from that draft, which is better than something like 95% of the teams do in every draft.

McCluster, Arenas and Moeaki are not good picks. Nickle backs and kick returners are not, under any circumstances, worth 2nd rounders. And Moeaki was an injury risk that's already missed half-his career and has been less productive than multiple TEs taken after him.

Berry was simply too damn simple for me to give him credit for.

I'll concede I forgot Lewis. Lewis was a good pick. But it's still no more than an average draft considering the position we sat in each of those rounds (at the very top) as well as the fact that we had an extra 2nd rounder.

[007]

Where did I say that?

My best guess as of right now is 8 wins.

Hell, thats optimistic.

[BigMeatballDave]

Again, all due respect, but get off the cross.

I won't speak for asshat Laz, but I haven't slung "hate" around in this thread at all.

You want to swim against the stream on this team on CP?

Be ready to handle it.

I mentioned the hate in an earlier post, tongue-in-cheek.

Of course he ran with it like a 12 yr old. LOL

[DJ's left nut]

Dead wrong. He's developed it.

Carr, Flowers, Dorsey -- all took massive steps forward under the coaches that Pioli's hired.

If you want to take one of those players away from me, claiming they were already going to be that good, I'll give you Flowers, and that's it.

Carr became a #1 corner, and Dorsey became an elite run stopper at the DE position. And we took several players who were underperforming for multiple years before Pioli arrived -- Bowe, Hali, Johnson -- and turned them into All Pros and Pro Bowlers.

Either everybody just coincidentally hit their stride at the same exact moment, or Herm and Carl's talent development was somewhere near terrible, whereas Pioli's has been adequate to great.

Carr and Flowers were developing extremely well as rookies. And Carr damn near got demolished by Haley when he arrived; he got knocked backwards by the coaching staff, IMO. Dorsey's skill-set is nowhere near worth the #5 overall pick yet many were arguing we got the steal of the first round when he slipped to us in the 1st the year we took him. Dorsey was an elite talent coming out of school that has become nothing more than a throw-away lunch-pail player that absolutely needs to be upgraded.

Bowe, and Johnson were all well on their way to being good players until Haley came in and shit all over them in 2009. So yeah, compared to what Haley turned them into in 2009, they were gangbusters in 2010. They'd have been just as well off under adequate coaching from damn near anyone. Pioli gets credit for Bowe....that just cracks me up.

[BigMeatballDave]

Hell, thats optimistic.

How is 8 wins optimistic when they won 7 last season with all the injuries?

[OnTheWarpath15]

You can't blame Pioli when prospects don't turn out -- then refuse to credit him when they do.

His coaches, his successes and failures.



You're wrong, bud.

Berry, McCluster, Arenas, Asamoah, Moeaki, Lewis?

You can quibble about the values each was taken at, and I'm on record agreeing with you. But we got solid starters at RG and FS and NCB, added a potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki, an All Pro in Berry, and McCluster, whom nobody really has any idea what to do with him.

I understand the hate on the value of some of the players, as well as McCluster. But we got a haul from that draft, which is better than something like 95% of the teams do in every draft.

Potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki...

Holy shit, that's rich.

I guess it's possible there's a year in which Gronkowski, Hernandez, Gates and Keller all die...

And Moeaki actually stays healthy.

[Bowser]

How is 8 wins optimistic when they won 7 last season with all the injuries?

http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/matt-cassel.jpg

[BigMeatballDave]

My only beef with Pioli is the QB position.

You can't keep failing at that position.

It sickens me to think how good this team could be with a solid QB.

[htismaqe]

Potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki...

Holy shit, that's rich.

I guess it's possible there's a year in which Gradkowski, Hernandez, Gates and Keller all die...

And Moeaki actually stays healthy.

Bruce Gradkowski is NOT going to make the Pro Bowl. ;)

[keg in kc]

Pioli actually should get some credit for Dorsey and Hali. He could have looked at the two of them and said "they don't fit what I want to do" and sent them packing. Lord knows a lot of people here wanted (and some still want in Dorsey's case) to do it.

[BigMeatballDave]

http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/matt-cassel.jpg

Well done, Capt. Obvious :)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Haters gotta hate.

You cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB.

I mentioned the hate in an earlier post, tongue-in-cheek.

Of course he ran with it like a 12 yr old. LOL

Wow, how could I possibly have missed how this was a "tongue in cheek" comment?

Nice backpedal.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bruce Gradkowski is NOT going to make the Pro Bowl. ;)

:clap:

Well played, sir.

[Direckshun]

Potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki...

Holy shit, that's rich.

I guess it's possible there's a year in which Gradkowski, Hernandez, Gates and Keller all die...

And Moeaki actually stays healthy.

When you want to dive back into discussion, rather than fire off drive-bys, we've got a thread here you can use.

Moeaki has Pro Bowl upside, with a really good quarterback a 70-80 catch season isn't terribly unlikely.

[BigMeatballDave]

Wow, how could I possibly have missed how this was a "tongue in cheek" comment?

Nice backpedal.

LOL When is the phrase "Haters gotta hate" a serious comment?

[OnTheWarpath15]

When you want to dive back into discussion, rather than fire off drive-bys, we've got a thread here you can use.

Moeaki has Pro Bowl upside, with a really good quarterback a 70-80 catch season isn't terribly unlikely.

Say stupid shit, get called on it.

He's the 4th best TE in his draft class, much less the league.

When he's actually playing, that is.

[DJ's left nut]

When you want to dive back into discussion, rather than fire off drive-bys, we've got a thread here you can use.

Moeaki has Pro Bowl upside, with a really good quarterback a 70-80 catch season isn't terribly unlikely.

You can't keep saying "possible" while ignoring the fact that the only reason anyone worried about that pick was his injury risk.

He's injury prone - period. He was injury prone in college and now he's straining his body even harder to compete with larger, faster men then ever before. He's being hit by guys that hit harder than ever. He's not going to suddenly escape the injury issues.

He's always going to be an injury risk. Even if he gives you a healthy season, can you truly count on him for the following season? Can you ever truly build an offense with him identified as a critical contributor?

I just don't see it. He's an injury risk that's been injured as a professional. He has the potential to do great things in this league...just as he did going into the draft. But alas, the dude can't stay on the field and if you can't rely on the guy, what good is he?

[OnTheWarpath15]

LOL When is the phrase "Haters gotta hate" a serious comment?

Since when is the phrase, "you cant be so blind in your hate to say this team would not compete for SB with a good QB" not a serious comment?

[vailpass]

Minus the QB, the chiefs are in the top 5 in terms of overall talent

LMAO

[OnTheWarpath15]

You can't keep saying "possible" while ignoring the fact that the only reason anyone worried about that pick was his injury risk.

He's injury prone - period. He was injury prone in college and now he's straining his body even harder to compete with larger, faster men then ever before. He's being hit by guys that hit harder than ever. He's not going to suddenly escape the injury issues.

He's always going to be an injury risk. Even if he gives you a healthy season, can you truly count on him for the following season? Can you ever truly build an offense with him identified as a critical contributor?

I just don't see it. He's an injury risk that's been injured as a professional. He has the potential to do great things in this league...just as he did going into the draft. But alas, the dude can't stay on the field and if you can't rely on the guy, what good is he?

What he said.

[Direckshun]

McCluster, Arenas and Moeaki are not good picks. Nickle backs and kick returners are not, under any circumstances, worth 2nd rounders. And Moeaki was an injury risk that's already missed half-his career and has been less productive than multiple TEs taken after him.

Berry was simply too damn simple for me to give him credit for.

I'll concede I forgot Lewis. Lewis was a good pick. But it's still no more than an average draft considering the position we sat in each of those rounds (at the very top) as well as the fact that we had an extra 2nd rounder.

Like I said earlier, I understand disliking the value of the players. But that's like criticizing a tree for being too slow -- every team is all over the place everywhere on value for picks, with the exception of maybe the Bengals, who seem to use a different system from everybody else.

But there's no questioning we got a really good haul that 95% of the NFL can't match.

I'm not willing to warrant that bad grade simply because I wish they picked the players in a different order.

Carr and Flowers were developing extremely well as rookies. And Carr damn near got demolished by Haley when he arrived; he got knocked backwards by the coaching staff, IMO. Dorsey's skill-set is nowhere near worth the #5 overall pick yet many were arguing we got the steal of the first round when he slipped to us in the 1st the year we took him. Dorsey was an elite talent coming out of school that has become nothing more than a throw-away lunch-pail player that absolutely needs to be upgraded.

Bowe, and Johnson were all well on their way to being good players until Haley came in and shit all over them in 2009. So yeah, compared to what Haley turned them into in 2009, they were gangbusters in 2010. They'd have been just as well off under adequate coaching from damn near anyone. Pioli gets credit for Bowe....that just cracks me up.

Well we just have alternate versions of history. Apparently Johnson was on a four-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Bowe was on a two-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Tamba Hali was on a three-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Carr was on a two-year ascention to becoming a #1 corner that Haley just happened to arrive at.

Like I said, if that's the line you want to take, I'm going to disagree with that. I'm going with the easiest line to believe -- that Herm and Carl's system of development was grossly poor, and Pioli's has been, at the very least, effective.

[Direckshun]

What he said.

I believe you meant to say PURE HATE

[Direckshun]

You can't keep saying "possible" while ignoring the fact that the only reason anyone worried about that pick was his injury risk.

He's injury prone - period. He was injury prone in college and now he's straining his body even harder to compete with larger, faster men then ever before. He's being hit by guys that hit harder than ever. He's not going to suddenly escape the injury issues.

He's always going to be an injury risk. Even if he gives you a healthy season, can you truly count on him for the following season? Can you ever truly build an offense with him identified as a critical contributor?

I just don't see it. He's an injury risk that's been injured as a professional. He has the potential to do great things in this league...just as he did going into the draft. But alas, the dude can't stay on the field and if you can't rely on the guy, what good is he?

That's fair.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I believe you meant to say PURE HATE

Snappy comeack.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Whether we have top five talent or not, a great QB masks a lot of weaknesses. I think some people (including myself) forget sometimes that we have Cassel behind center when evaluating our team. QB is a pretty important position...understatement of the century.

[Direckshun]

Snappy comeack.

I'm just bemused by it, is all.

[BigMeatballDave]

What the hell would we argue about if the Chiefs actually won a SB?

[HemiEd]

Would you really have done what the Redskins have done?

They have sold out their future, repeatedly, since Snyder has owned the team.

They have to, they gotta sell the fan base on the hype.

I would not trade talent with the Redskins, and by your very own words earlier, RG3 hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet.
If the Chiefs players haven't he sure as hell hasn't. See how that works?

no comment?
Snappy comeack.

[DJ's left nut]

Well we just have alternate versions of history. Apparently Johnson was on a four-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Bowe was on a two-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Tamba Hali was on a three-year learning curve that Haley just happened to arrive at. Apparently Carr was on a two-year ascention to becoming a #1 corner that Haley just happened to arrive at.

I fail to see how Bowe being arguably the most productive WR of his class the first 2 years suggests a 'learning curve'.

86 catches for over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a Sophomore sure looks a hell of a lot like 81 catches for over 1,100 yards and 5 TDs during his 5th season in the league, doesn't it?

Bowe's the same player he's always been, even as a rookie. He's not one cent better than he was when Haley came into KC.

Look at what Johnson did his 3rd year in the league - 94 tackles, 4 sacks and 2 picks; 3 FF. As a sophomore in 13 games due to injury he had 76 tackles, 4.5 sacks and 2 FF. As a rookie the dude had damn near 100 tackles and 2 sacks.

He's marginally better, perhaps, than he was in his first 4 seasons in the league. But it's pure revisionist history (and buying into Haley's bullshit benching) to suggest that DJ wasn't well on his way to being a very good player before Haley came into town and shit all over him in 2009.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

What the hell would we argue about if the Chiefs actually won a SB?

We'd argue about who actually won it.

[HemiEd]

I fail to see how Bowe being arguably the most productive WR of his class the first 2 years suggests a 'learning curve'.

86 catches for over 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a Sophomore sure looks a hell of a lot like 81 catches for over 1,100 yards and 5 TDs during his 5th season in the league, doesn't it?

Bowe's the same player he's always been, even as a rookie. He's not one cent better than he was when Haley came into KC.

Look at what Johnson did his 3rd year in the league - 94 tackles, 4 sacks and 2 picks; 3 FF. As a sophomore in 13 games due to injury he had 76 tackles, 4.5 sacks and 2 FF. As a rookie the dude had damn near 100 tackles and 2 sacks.

He's marginally better, perhaps, than he was in his first 4 seasons in the league. But it's pure revisionist history (and buying into Haley's bullshit benching) to suggest that DJ wasn't well on his way to being a very good player before Haley came into town and shit all over him in 2009.

I call Bullshit. I don't really care what the stats say, he was making better plays, this last year. Plays he would not have made before.

[KCrockaholic]

What the hell would we argue about if the Chiefs actually won a SB?

People would complain because we wouldn't have the talent to make it to multiple Super Bowls and that it was just a one time, luck thing.

And that's regardless of if our team actually was extremely talented or not.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

People would complain because we wouldn't have the talent to make it to multiple Super Bowls and that it was just a one time, luck thing.

And that's regardless of if our team actually was extremely talented or not.

Man if we won the Super Bowl in my lifetime I wouldn't be complaining for a LONG time. Football is my favorite sport and the Chiefs are my favorite team so the Chiefs winning the Super Bowl would be icing on the sports cake for me. You could take all my teams away but the Chiefs.

[donkhater]

The problem I see with some in the fan base is the over-evaluation of talent that is on this team.

The Chiefs have SUCKED through Gunther, Herm, and Todd. Now that the team is beginning to improve, I think much of the fan base feels as if a lot more of the players are irreplacable and that opinion is skewed by 10+ years of suckage.

IMO the only player on this team that has potential as a future HOF and would be VERY difficult to replace would be Eric Berry. Other than that, I ain't losing sleep over any player losing his job for a potential upgrade.

[ModSocks]

If i had to pick a side, I'd pick Direkshun's in this argument, because in no way do i believe the Chiefs are a bottom 10 team in terms of talent. I'd put them 15-20. This is ignoring the QB obviously.

The one thing I'd like to weigh in on is Bowe.

I see "Bowe is the same receiver" get mentioned all the time.

That's such BS.

Bowe is a far better WR today than he was his Rookie/Sophmore seasons. His numbers may be the same, but numbers don't tell the whole story and you guys know it.

He looks far more polished out there today then he did before. I'd venture to say he looks quicker as well. He's more consistent too.

He is NOT the same WR he was 3 years ago.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Without Cassell this is a top 15 team, with him they have a shot at the whole thing.

[Micjones]

Yes. The Chiefs won the division two seasons ago with Cassel and a full allotment of players, but somehow with MORE talent and those '10 players coming back...healthy...we're one of the five worst teams in the league.

Makes sense.
:rolleyes:

[L.A. Chieffan]

Yes. The Chiefs won the division two seasons ago with Cassel and a full allotment of players, but somehow with MORE talent and those '10 players coming back...healthy...we're one of the five worst teams in the league.

Makes sense.
:rolleyes:

Insane, people just love to bitch.

[DJ's left nut]

I call Bullshit. I don't really care what the stats say, he was making better plays, this last year. Plays he would not have made before.

That would speak to the 'overvaluation' of the talent on the team.

Just because you see a better player than the guy we had 4 years ago, doesn't mean he really is.

He's essentially the same guy. Still has the same maddening drops. Still capable of the same highlight reel catches. He's a damn good WR, but he was a damn good WR from the moment he put on the uniform.

[KCrockaholic]

To me, this is the most talented Chiefs team since the 1997 Chiefs. They're a better overall team than the 2003 Chiefs because this team actually has a great defense.

This team has an above average offense with Charles and Moeaki coming back, along with the familiarity of Steve Breaston and Baldwin in year 2 of their contracts.

Cassel is the only true weak link on the offense. You could also include Lilja. But his replacement is already waiting in line.

This takes me to 1997.

This is the most talented team since 1997.

Obviously, if this team had Trent Green the expectations would be the Super Bowl.

[The Dawg]

Who?

My thoughts exactly.

[BossChief]

Hahaha

Some of you have lost your minds.

Even Hamas said we are a superbowl team albeit qb.

Then we have OTWP saying we are the 26th best teM in the NFL...buy will probably win 8 games.

I can't wait to read the rest of this later.

Lots of laughs.

[ModSocks]

That would speak to the 'overvaluation' of the talent on the team.

Just because you see a better player than the guy we had 4 years ago, doesn't mean he really is.

He's essentially the same guy. Still has the same maddening drops. Still capable of the same highlight reel catches. He's a damn good WR, but he was a damn good WR from the moment he put on the uniform.

He's more consistent now than before. He's a better, more polished player now. You said he was the same guy. He isn't. Same goes for DJ, Hali, etc.

[HemiEd]

If i had to pick a side, I'd pick Direkshun's in this argument, because in no way do i believe the Chiefs are a bottom 10 team in terms of talent. I'd put them 15-20. This is ignoring the QB obviously.

The one thing I'd like to weigh in on is Bowe.

I see "Bowe is the same receiver" get mentioned all the time.

That's such BS.

Bowe is a far better WR today than he was his Rookie/Sophmore seasons. His numbers may be the same, but numbers don't tell the whole story and you guys know it.

He looks far more polished out there today then he did before. I'd venture to say he looks quicker as well. He's more consistent too.

He is NOT the same WR he was 3 years ago.

This, he was good, but he is approaching the elite talent level now. Of course some growth is expected, but I give a lot of the credit to Haley, as that is where his expertise was.
Anything above a receiver's coach for Haley, was invoking the peter principle.

[Brock]

Hell, the defense alone makes this a middle of the pack team. This is a braindead list.

[Hammock Parties]

You're wrong.

A team that went 7-9 against a HARD schedule while missing its best players on offense and defense, a key contributor on offense, and playing backup QBs for almost half the season?

That's not bottom-third talent. That's, at the very least, mid-third talent. I'd put us towards the top of the mid third.

DUDE.

I keep telling you:

You can't look at last year's team as a legit 7-win team.

We got practically gifted five of those wins because we played Caleb Hanie, Tim Tebow, Donovan McNabb, Curtis Painter and Kyle Boller.

Hanie and Tebow threw up all of 3 points against us. Boller threw up 0.

Painter sucked for an entire scoreless half, paving the way for our "comeback." McNabb was McNabb.

Last year's Chiefs were a 4-12 team that ran into some really shitty quarterbacks. I would be shocked if we held 3 teams to 3 or fewer points this season.

[ModSocks]

DUDE.

I keep telling you:

You can't look at last year's team as a legit 7-win team.

We got practically gifted five of those wins because we played Caleb Hanie, Tim Tebow, Donovan McNabb, Curtis Painter and Kyle Boller.

Hanie and Tebow threw up all of 3 points against us. Boller threw up 0.

Painter sucked for an entire scoreless half, paving the way for our "comeback." McNabb was McNabb.

Last year's Chiefs were a 4-12 team that ran into some really shitty quarterbacks. I would be shocked if we held 3 teams to 3 or fewer points this season.

That is the stupidest logic I've ever heard. Fuck, you are the worst football poster on this forum.

By your logic, every team should start deducting wins off their schedule because they beat teams with bad QB's.

I swear, you are borderline downs.

[ModSocks]

How many wins did the pats get that don't count? How about GB?

[Hammock Parties]

McCluster, whom nobody really has any idea what to do with him.


LMAO

Pioli has a good idea: draft players to replace him.

[007]

Well done, Capt. Obvious :)

Well, why did you even ask the question then. :evil:

[Hammock Parties]

How many wins did the pats get that don't count? How about GB?

I didn't say those wins didn't count. Try to keep up.

Direckshun is sitting here saying last year's team, even without Berry, Charles and Mo, is worth 7 wins THIS SEASON.

Add those other players and you get 10-6 or something like that.

THIS SEASON...we're unlikely to face that many horrible quarterbacks who are going to gift us wins. That's truly an alignment of the stars.

It's no different than saying the 2010 Chiefs weren't as good as their record indicated...or the 1995 Chiefs, etc.

[Frazod]

Yes. The Chiefs won the division two seasons ago with Cassel and a full allotment of players, but somehow with MORE talent and those '10 players coming back...healthy...we're one of the five worst teams in the league.

Makes sense.
:rolleyes:

The problem with the 2010 Division win was that the division sucked and the schedule was ridiculously easy. They didn't beat a single good team (perhaps one "meh" team in eternally underperforming San Diego), and got curbstomped in the playoffs. Basically they were the 2007 Jayhawks, only Baltimore was waiting for them at the end and not the Chokies.

[Brock]

DUDE.

I keep telling you:

You can't look at last year's team as a legit 7-win team.

We got practically gifted five of those wins because we played Caleb Hanie, Tim Tebow, Donovan McNabb, Curtis Painter and Kyle Boller.

Hanie and Tebow threw up all of 3 points against us. Boller threw up 0.

Painter sucked for an entire scoreless half, paving the way for our "comeback." McNabb was McNabb.

Last year's Chiefs were a 4-12 team that ran into some really shitty quarterbacks. I would be shocked if we held 3 teams to 3 or fewer points this season.


Yeah, because we didn't have serious injuries to deal with just like everybody else. You moron.

[DJ's left nut]

He's more consistent now than before. He's a better, more polished player now. You said he was the same guy. He isn't. Same goes for DJ, Hali, etc.

He might be marginally better due to age and experience.

But I don't see how you can argue he's jumped up a tier. Even in his career season he cost us a game with a critical 3rd down drop. Last year he dropped a TD right before the interception that cost us a chance at the playoffs.

He was slightly underrated as a young WR and I think we're slightly overrating what he is now. Bowe is a fringe #1; one of the top 15-20 WRs in the game. He probably wasn't ranked quite that high to begin with age and attrition has taken some players out of the ranks of competition. He's presently in his physical prime and playing as such.

But I just don't see the refinement to his game that you all do. His greatest strides have been as a blocker, but he'll still roll out his routes and he'll still drop big plays...right before making a spectacular one.

Same guy, IMO. Slightly better, perhaps, but ultimately he's 90% similar to what he was when Haley showed up.

[HemiEd]

That is the stupidest logic I've ever heard. ****, you are the worst football poster on this forum.

By your logic, every team should start deducting wins off their schedule because they beat teams with bad QB's.

I swear, you are borderline downs.

The Broncos should have gone winless and drafting ahead of the Colts. ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

But don't you see, the injuries pretty much cancel each other out.

Give the Bears back Cutler and Forte, give the Chiefs back Charles and Berry.

I bet the Bears beat the Chiefs.

Don't even want to think about what happens if you give the Colts back Manning, or if the Raiders don't have to start Kyle Boller. Berry and Charles didn't save us from a healthy Raiders team in 2010, for sure.

[Brock]

But don't you see, the injuries pretty much cancel each other out.

Give the Bears back Cutler and Forte, give the Chiefs back Charles and Berry.

I bet the Bears beat the Chiefs.

Don't even want to think about what happens if you give the Colts back Manning, or if the Raiders don't have to start Kyle Boller. Berry and Charles didn't save us from a healthy Raiders team in 2010, for sure.

If the injuries pretty much cancel each other out, WTF are you bringing them up? Oh yeah, to prove your fake point.

[Hammock Parties]

The Broncos should have gone winless and drafting ahead of the Colts. ROFL

The Broncos were definitely paper tigers, and that's why their front office had the foresight to get Manning and dump Tebow.

[Hammock Parties]

If the injuries pretty much cancel each other out, WTF are you bringing them up?

It only strengthens my point.

If there were no injuries at all in the NFL last year, we're probably still a 7-8 win team. Sure, we'd get better by having a couple of players back. So would other teams.

[ModSocks]

It only strengthens my point.

If there were no injuries at all in the NFL last year, we're probably still a 7-8 win team. Sure, we'd get better by having a couple of players back. So would other teams.

Your argument is retarded. Just leave the thread now and save face.

[Hammock Parties]

Your argument is retarded. Just leave the thread now and save face.

It's rather logical, actually.

Or did you think the Chiefs could actually beat a healthy Raiders team that swept us in 2010? When we were healthy?

[Brock]

It only strengthens my point.

If there were no injuries at all in the NFL last year, we're probably still a 7-8 win team. Sure, we'd get better by having a couple of players back. So would other teams.


You can't look at last year's team as a legit 7-win team.






You don't say.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Man if we won the Super Bowl in my lifetime I wouldn't be complaining for a LONG time. Football is my favorite sport and the Chiefs are my favorite team so the Chiefs winning the Super Bowl would be icing on the sports cake for me. You could take all my teams away but the Chiefs.

makes sense....I saw them in 2 SB's. yup, I am old.

[HemiEd]

The Broncos were definitely paper tigers, and that's why their front office had the foresight to get Manning and dump Tebow.

They, and everyone else that knows the first thing about football, knows that Tebow had them in an ugly trap. The only way Elway could get out of that trap with the fans not lynching him, was to land Manning.

Yes, they didn't deserve some of those wins, but they got them and they counted. It happens every year, you lose games you should have won, and hopefully you make up for it by stealing games you should lose.

[Micjones]

The problem with the 2010 Division win was that the division sucked and the schedule was ridiculously easy. They didn't beat a single good team (perhaps one "meh" team in eternally underperforming San Diego), and got curbstomped in the playoffs. Basically they were the 2007 Jayhawks, only Baltimore was waiting for them at the end and not the Chokies.

The division has improved, but so has this team and we're playing the weakest schedule in the AFC West again this season. We were better than 10 teams just last year sans Charles, Moeaki, Berry and Cassel (at the end of the year)...playing a 1st Place schedule. Somehow with a ton more talent and a significantly weaker schedule we're one of the five-worst teams in the league?

**** outta here.

[Hammock Parties]

we're playing the weakest schedule in the AFC West again this season.

It's still a tough schedule, and we are the worst team in the division, with the worst QB in the division.

Maybe if we had a 2010-level schedule we could win 10 games this year.

[HemiEd]

DUDE.

I keep telling you:

You can't look at last year's team as a legit 7-win team.

We got practically gifted five of those wins because we played Caleb Hanie, Tim Tebow, Donovan McNabb, Curtis Painter and Kyle Boller.

Hanie and Tebow threw up all of 3 points against us. Boller threw up 0.

Painter sucked for an entire scoreless half, paving the way for our "comeback." McNabb was McNabb.

Last year's Chiefs were a 4-12 team that ran into some really shitty quarterbacks. I would be shocked if we held 3 teams to 3 or fewer points this season.



It only strengthens my point.

If there were no injuries at all in the NFL last year, we're probably still a 7-8 win team. Sure, we'd get better by having a couple of players back. So would other teams.

Huh? Wha?:doh!:

[Titty Meat]

I don't disagree with much except for the idea that the 2012 team can't possibly be appreciably better than the 2010 version. They're better at virtually every position on both lines (obviously in several cases because the same players are better players now than they were two years ago), they're much better at wide receiver, they're likely better at running back (even if Charles isn't the old Charles), they're better at linebacker both inside and out. They're either going to be equal or better at safety. The only positions on the entire roster that don't look to be improved are corner (where the starters are at the least adequate but the depth is questionable) and quarterback (which is unfortunately exactly the same).

And all of that, aside from the Poe pick, was the case before the draft. Which is why I actually liked that they drafted the way that they did, as opposed to making need picks/safe picks on players with less upside.

I think the team as a whole is built to win 10 or 11 games. The question is how many games the quarterback position will cost them. With someone appreciably better than Cassel behind center (say Manning) I think they'd actually be a playoff favorite. All this assuming the injury bug last year was an aberration and not a trend.

Unfortunately we're stuck with Cassel, and there isn't anybody on the bench who's going to come in and save us. Although at least it won't be Palko. Who by himself probably cost us several games last year.

You mean Stanzi isn't going to save us? Fuck.

[FishingRod]

I think Philly and Atlanta may be a bit high but if you start after New Orleans almost any of these teams could be switched with any other on the list. There is just not that much difference..

[jspchief]

One thing that seems to be escaping some people...

We have some serious "unknowns" coming into this season.

1. NT. Kelly Gregg may not be an all pro, but he was a steady veteran presence. The guy did his job. We are replacing him with a 100% unknown commodity, whether it be Powe or Poe. That could have a significant impact on our run D.

2. Center. Again, replacing a veteran with a 100% unknown. A lot of people just assume the guy we are putting at center is going to be an upgrade, but we really have no idea. The center often plays a pivotal role in recognizing blocking assignments, and we're putting in a guy that doesn't have that experience. There's also the issue of chemistry, which is always important on an O-line.


I'm not saying any of this makes us the 27th ranked team in the league. But there seems to be a lot of people ready to believe that this team is the best of the last 2 seasons, plus upgrades at every spot where we have someone new. The reality is we may or may not actually be better at those spots.

[Hammock Parties]

Huh? Wha?:doh!:

Try to keep up.

Let's say we get Charles, Berry and Moeaki healthy for an entire season and Cassel doesn't get hurt.

That's great.

That's basically the same team that got swept by the Raiders in 2010.

What makes you think they could beat a healthy Raiders team in 2011?

[ModSocks]

Try to keep up.

Let's say we get Charles, Berry and Moeaki healthy for an entire season and Cassel doesn't get hurt.

That's great.

That's basically the same team that got swept by the Raiders in 2010.

What makes you think they could beat a healthy Raiders team in 2011?

:facepalm:

Just stop.

[O.city]

I think the team is alot better than they were in 2010, if they are healthy.




However, until they prove it, who cares really. I'm tired of talk. No more "it's a process shit". I will give Pioli this, he's put together a good young roster, but none of that matters. Just win baby.

[HemiEd]

Try to keep up.

Let's say we get Charles, Berry and Moeaki healthy for an entire season and Cassel doesn't get hurt.

That's great.

That's basically the same team that got swept by the Raiders in 2010.

What makes you think they could beat a healthy Raiders team in 2011?

I am trying to keep up, seriously, but it is hard when you contradict yourself in the same thread. You said this team is not a 7 or 8 win team, then you said it is, which is it? Or am I supposed to read something into this that you didn't say?

The Oakland series stands on it's own, and always has, at least since I have been watching them. Nothing pains me more than losing to those guys, and not for a minute do I think they are a better team.
The best team doesn't always win, it is who makes the least errors, and Haley clearly ****ed up as HC in a couple of those games.

[Micjones]

One thing that seems to be escaping some people...

We have some serious "unknowns" coming into this season.

1. NT. Kelly Gregg may not be an all pro, but he was a steady veteran presence. The guy did his job. We are replacing him with a 100% unknown commodity, whether it be Powe or Poe. That could have a significant impact on our run D.

2. Center. Again, replacing a veteran with a 100% unknown. A lot of people just assume the guy we are putting at center is going to be an upgrade, but we really have no idea. The center often plays a pivotal role in recognizing blocking assignments, and we're putting in a guy that doesn't have that experience. There's also the issue of chemistry, which is always important on an O-line.


I'm not saying any of this makes us the 27th ranked team in the league. But there seems to be a lot of people ready to believe that this team is the best of the last 2 seasons, plus upgrades at every spot where we have someone new. The reality is we may or may not actually be better at those spots.

We weren't exactly good at either of those spots anyway.
So I'm not sure there will be a HUGE dropoff at either position.

[Hammock Parties]

I am trying to keep up, seriously, but it is hard when you contradict yourself in the same thread. You said this team is not a 7 or 8 win team, then you said it is, which is it?
.

I didn't contradict myself.

I said we weren't as good as our record indicated last year.

Then I said if there were no injuries at all in the NFL, we were still probably going to win 7 or 8 games. Chiefs would get better, but so would other teams.

[jspchief]

We weren't exactly good at either of those spots anyway.
So I'm not sure there will be a HUGE dropoff at either position.At NT, we actually were good. Gregg did a good job.

And at center we had a solid veteran. We are replacing him with a guy that we don't even know will be capable of consistent snaps.

[HemiEd]

We weren't exactly good at either of those spots anyway.
So I'm not sure there will be a HUGE dropoff at either position.

No kidding, at least at Center. If the snap can get done without fumbles, I am not sure how center play could degrade.

But I did enjoy watching some of Gregg's technique, and that had to come from experience. Hopefully Poe/Powe can make up for it with mass and speed.

[HemiEd]

I didn't contradict myself.

I said we weren't as good as our record indicated last year.

Then I said if there were no injuries at all in the NFL, we were still probably going to win 7 or 8 games. Chiefs would get better, but so would other teams.

So, you are saying, counting the Chief's injuries, they were not as good as their record, but if they had no injuries they would have won 7 or 8. But if other teams had no injuries, the Chiefs still would have won 7 or 8?

[Frazod]

The division has improved, but so has this team and we're playing the weakest schedule in the AFC West again this season. We were better than 10 teams just last year sans Charles, Moeaki, Berry and Cassel (at the end of the year)...playing a 1st Place schedule. Somehow with a ton more talent and a significantly weaker schedule we're one of the five-worst teams in the league?

**** outta here.

I didn't say I agreed with the author. I just believe our 2010 team was overrated. In many ways, I think the 2011 team was better - certainly at the end it was (with a real quarterback that we DIDN'T FUCKING KEEP :mad: ). Green Bay would have laid a Little Bighorn beating on the 2010 team at any point in the season.

[htismaqe]

Dude, you've got some seriously circular logic going on here.

There's just no objective way to say "yeah, we had injuries but so did other teams, so we were WORSE than a 7-9 team".

Sure, we probably won the Bears game because of Caleb Hanie. One could argue that we LOST the Steelers game (to a nearly full strength Steelers team) because of Tyler Palko.

We went 7-9 and that's that.

[Hammock Parties]

but if they had no injuries they would have won 7 or 8.

Nah. We would have easily made the playoffs last year without injuries.

[Hammock Parties]

Dude, you've got some seriously circular logic going on here.

There's just no objective way to say "yeah, we had injuries but so did other teams, so we were WORSE than a 7-9 team".


What I'm trying to say here is that you can't apply last year's record to this coming season.

We are unlikely to face five horrible quarterbacks.

[BigMeatballDave]

What I'm trying to say here is that you can't apply last year's record to this coming season.

We are unlikely to face five horrible quarterbacks.

You're still stuck on 5 terrible QBs.

What about the the best QB in the NFL that we beat?

[Hammock Parties]

You're still stuck on 5 terrible QBs.

What about the the best QB in the NFL that we beat?

We deserve credit for that.

But remember, the quarterback who took part in that is gone and we're stuck with a lesser QB.

[HemiEd]

Nah. We would have easily made the playoffs last year without injuries.

But wait, now I am lost again. Or do you mean only if the Chiefs didn't have any injuries, and the rest of the NFL did?

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat
It only strengthens my point.

If there were no injuries at all in the NFL last year, we're probably still a 7-8 win team. Sure, we'd get better by having a couple of players back. So would other teams.

[BigMeatballDave]

I didn't contradict myself.

I said we weren't as good as our record indicated last year.

Then I said if there were no injuries at all in the NFL, we were still probably going to win 7 or 8 games. Chiefs would get better, but so would other teams.

Good Christ this is a stupid post.

[htismaqe]

We deserve credit for that.

But remember, the quarterback who took part in that is gone and we're stuck with a lesser QB.

Who won 10 games in 2010, with fewer weapons...

[BigMeatballDave]

We deserve credit for that.

But remember, the quarterback who took part in that is gone and we're stuck with a lesser QB.I don't care what Orton did in that game.
I care that our D manhandled that offense. 14 points.

[DaWolf]

I like Silver, but he's obviously not a fan of Pioli's based on his post-Haley firing articles (he likes Haley and texts the guy often). So not surprising that he'd be down on the Chiefs.

Whatever. This team has a lot to prove, so it doesn't bother me...

[suzzer99]

Mike Mayock said (what we all know) that the Chiefs are a very solid football team with very few holes. He and Gruden were surprised Peyton Manning never even considered coming here. It's refreshing to hear our team analyzed by people who know more than 4 or 5 of our player's names.

Mayock >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silver

[HemiEd]

I don't care what Orton did in that game.
I care that our D manhandled that offense. 14 points.

Bingo!

[BigMeatballDave]

Clay has gone full retard

[KCUnited]

I like Silver, but he's obviously not a fan of Pioli's based on his post-Haley firing articles (he likes Haley and texts the guy often). So not surprising that he'd be down on the Chiefs.


His ranking was all Cassel driven. Silver could post here with his recognition of what Matt Cassel is.

[Buckweath]

Even with Tyler Palko under center for a whole season, this team is not the 28th best in the league. Improved Oline, the return of Berry, Charles, Moeaki, and probably not as unlucky regarding injuries this year, Peyton Hillis who has a lot to prove, and most importantly, a young defense that`s ready to become elite IMO, 28th?? Are you kidding me?


QB is by far the most important position in football but I hate when people make it sound like it`s really the only position that matters. A team is more than just a QB really.

[Hammock Parties]

Who won 10 games in 2010, with fewer weapons...

Orton > Cassel.

Cassel would not have thrown for 300 yards against Green Bay.

[BigMeatballDave]

Even with Tyler Palko under center for a whole season, this team is not the 28th best in the league. Improved Oline, the return of Berry, Charles, Moeaki, and probably not as unlucky regarding injuries this year, Peyton Hillis who has a lot to prove, and most importantly, a young defense that`s ready to become elite IMO, 28th?? Are you kidding me?


QB is by far the most important position in football but I hate when people make it sound like it`s really the only position that matters. A team is more than just a QB really.

This is all true, for the most part, but we're not winning a SB without a solid QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Clay has gone full retard

What's retarded about looking at our schedule, and seeing an absence of:

Caleb Hanie
Tim Tebow
Kyle Boller
Curtis Painter
Donovan McNabb?

I don't think were the 28th best team in the league. But to think we're a lock for 10-6, when we have the worst QB in the division, can't beat the Raiders and are now counting on three recently torn ACLs to be rock solid....well, that's just homer talk.

7-9, perhaps 8-8 if we get another miracle from Philip Rivers.

[Buckweath]

Orton > Cassel.

Cassel would not have thrown for 300 yards against Green Bay.

We`re talking about the 2010 season.

That`s right, last time Cassell played a full season with this team, two years ago, the Chiefs were arguably a top 10-15 team in the league. Now, you`re going to tell me that the supporting cast is worse than in 2010??

Sure Charlie Weiss might have helped but come on now..

[ChiefsCountry]

Clay has gone full retard

No shit.

[Titty Meat]

I like how people on here pretend 2010 was a super bowl year.

That year we needed San Diego to shit themselves and Denver was horrible. We're playing the NFC South and AFC North which had 3 playoff teams last year. That's not exactly the AFC South and NFC West of 2010.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't care what Orton did in that game.


You should. 300-yard games are rare in KC.

[Titty Meat]

We`re talking about the 2010 season.

That`s right, last time Cassell played a full season with this team, two years ago, the Chiefs were arguably a top 10-15 team in the league. Now, you`re going to tell me that the supporting cast is worse than in 2010??

Sure Charlie Weiss might have helped but come on now..

Let's see how Charles knee is. We know we won't win games throwing the ball 3-16.

[htismaqe]

Orton > Cassel.

Cassel would not have thrown for 300 yards against Green Bay.

And?

Cassel WON 10 GAMES IN 2010.

He's a shit QB and this team was still good enough to make the playoffs. That's pretty fucking sad in and of itself but it strongly suggests that you're wrong.

[Buckweath]

This is all true, for the most part, but we're not winning a SB without a solid QB.

Of course. I`ve said before that the very minimum to win a Superbowl is to have a Joe Flacco caliber QB.

[htismaqe]

I like how people on here pretend 2010 was a super bowl year.

That year we needed San Diego to shit themselves and Denver was horrible. We're playing the NFC South and AFC North which had 3 playoff teams last year. That's not exactly the AFC South and NFC West of 2010.

They still won 10 games, with arguably one of the worst QBs in the league.

[BigMeatballDave]

What's retarded about looking at our schedule, and seeing an absence of:

Caleb Hanie
Tim Tebow
Kyle Boller
Curtis Painter
Donovan McNabb?

I don't think were the 28th best team in the league. But to think we're a lock for 10-6, when we have the worst QB in the division, can't beat the Raiders and are now counting on three recently torn ACLs to be rock solid....well, that's just homer talk.

7-9, perhaps 8-8 if we get another miracle from Philip Rivers.We weren't the only team who played/beat those QBs, genious.

[Hammock Parties]

That`s right, last time Cassell played a full season with this team, two years ago, the Chiefs were arguably a top 10-15 team in the league.

Sure looked like it in the playoffs.

[Hammock Parties]

We weren't the only team who played/beat those QBs, genious.

I don't know why that matters.

We're talking solely about the Chiefs and their prospects for a decent season this year.

[Hammock Parties]

And?

Cassel WON 10 GAMES IN 2010.

He's a shit QB and this team was still good enough to make the playoffs. That's pretty fucking sad in and of itself but it strongly suggests that you're wrong.

I doubt we beat the Packers without Orton.

[BigMeatballDave]

I like how people on here pretend 2010

LMAO Who the fuck said that?

[Titty Meat]

They still won 10 games, with arguably one of the worst QBs in the league.

Yes in 2010 without beating 1 team with a winning record.


This is 2012.

[htismaqe]

I doubt we beat the Packers without Orton.

I guaran-damn-tee you we beat the Steelers with Cassel.

It works both ways.

Besides, Orton is dog shit. He smells a little different than Cassel but he's still dog shit nonetheless. This team has been winning in spite of, not because of, whoever is playing QB.

[htismaqe]

Yes in 2010 without beating 1 team with a winning record.


This is 2012.

We have a last place schedule again this year. :hmmm:

[TEX]

Even with Tyler Palko under center for a whole season, this team is not the 28th best in the league. Improved Oline, the return of Berry, Charles, Moeaki, and probably not as unlucky regarding injuries this year, Peyton Hillis who has a lot to prove, and most importantly, a young defense that`s ready to become elite IMO, 28th?? Are you kidding me?


QB is by far the most important position in football but I hate when people make it sound like it`s really the only position that matters. A team is more than just a QB really.

This team is not good enough to overcome its QB. It's the # 1 thing holding the Chiefs back...:shake:

[Hammock Parties]

I guaran-damn-tee you we beat the Steelers with Cassel.

It works both ways.
.

Agree. So we'd be 7-9 either way.

[Titty Meat]

We have a last place schedule again this year. :hmmm:

Do you think all the NFC South teams will finish the season with a losing record? And only AFC North team will finish with a winning record?

[htismaqe]

This team is not good enough to overcome its QB. It's the # 1 thing holding the Chiefs back...:shake:

It's good enough - just good enough - to make the playoffs and make the front office believe that Cassel is good enough to keep. :shake:

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't know why that matters.

We're talking solely about the Chiefs and their prospects for a decent season this year.

Because you're the one who is making excuses for the Chiefs for playing 5 shitty QBs. Other teams beat them and lost to them.

Why is it a black mark for the Chiefs to have beaten these QBs but not anyone else?

[htismaqe]

Agree. So we'd be 7-9 either way.

Dude, stop talking in circles. You're making yourself dizzy.

[Hammock Parties]

Because you're the one who is making excuses for the Chiefs for playing 5 shitty QBs. Other teams beat them and lost to them.

Why is it a black mark for the Chiefs to have beaten these QBs but not anyone else?

It's definitely a black mark for other teams.

At least if they played them in that quantity.

Playing 1/3 of your schedule against complete shit QBs is a gift that isn't given every NFL season. Hence, we shouldn't be counting on it this year.

[htismaqe]

Do you think all the NFC South teams will finish the season with a losing record? And only AFC North team will finish with a winning record?

What does that have to do with anything?

They finished 7-9 last year, playing a FIRST PLACE schedule.

The chances of them getting worse, even with Cassel, are very small.

[Hammock Parties]

It's a misnomer to call it a first-place schedule.

1/3 of it came against dogshit quarterbacks.

[Ceej]

Still waiting for someone here to say they'd rather have Seattle's or St. Louis' roster over ours.


This ranking system he has come up with is nothing more than opinion of this guy.

It has most certainly ruffled some feathers here.

[Titty Meat]

What does that have to do with anything?

They finished 7-9 last year, playing a FIRST PLACE schedule.

The chances of them getting worse, even with Cassel, are very small.


Last years schedule wasn't hard. We lost 5 games to non-playoff teams and beat 2 teams picking in the top 3. Great accomplishment.

[Fat Elvis]

Still waiting for someone here to say they'd rather have Seattle's or St. Louis' roster over ours.


This ranking system he has come up with is nothing more than opinion of this guy.

It has most certainly ruffled some feathers here.

I'd rather have Sam Bradford or Russell Wilson as our QB. As far as I'm concerned, you build your roster around your QB rather than build a team and then pray that your QB doesn't lose every game for you.

[Fat Elvis]

Last years schedule wasn't hard. We lost 5 games to non-playoff teams and beat 2 teams picking in the top 3. Great accomplishment.

DOn't forget that two or three of those wins were absolute flukes.

[Hammock Parties]

Our 2011 "first-place schedule" featured:

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Donovan McNabb
Curtis Painter
Kyle Boller
Matt Moore
Tim Tebow x2
Caleb Hanie
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer

That's 10 pretty laughable quarterbacks, some of whom beat us.

More difficult matchups:

Philip Rivers x2
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Stafford

Our 2012 "last-place schedule" features:

Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers x2
Joe Flacco
Josh Freeman
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Peyton Manning x2
Cam Newton

Easier matchups:

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Carson Palmer x2
Cleveland's QB
Andrew Luck.

Just looking at the quarterbacks we have to play, the 2012 schedule is BY FAR more difficult than 2011.

[HemiEd]

Agree. So we'd be 7-9 either way.

My head just exploded.

[vailpass]

Who the fuck is Mike Silver?

[Ceej]

I'd rather have Sam Bradford or Russell Wilson as our QB. As far as I'm concerned, you build your roster around your QB rather than build a team and then pray that your QB doesn't lose every game for you.

I understand the concept. But, other than a QB (Wilson is a big question mark, obv) would you really, honestly take their roster over ours?

No way in Hell I would; but maybe that's just me.

And IMO; Bradford (thus far) has not been deserving of his draft spot.

[BigMeatballDave]

Our 2011 "first-place schedule" featured:

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Donovan McNabb
Curtis Painter
Kyle Boller
Matt Moore
Tim Tebow x2
Caleb Hanie
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer

That's 10 pretty laughable quarterbacks, some of whom beat us.

More difficult matchups:

Philip Rivers x2
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Stafford

Our 2012 "last-place schedule" features:

Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers x2
Joe Flacco
Josh Freeman
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Peyton Manning x2
Cam Newton

Easier matchups:

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Carson Palmer x2
Cleveland's QB
Andrew Luck.

Just looking at the quarterbacks we have to play, the 2012 schedule is BY FAR more difficult than 2011.So, you have no faith on our D?

[Hammock Parties]

So, you have no faith on our D?

I have a lot of faith in our D to keep the game close while Cassel loses it.

And FYI, with Cassel, teams like the Saints, Falcons and most likely the Broncos will blow us out because he sucks at third-down conversions.

[Titty Meat]

So, you have no faith on our D?

You'd have a point if this were 1996.

[Hammock Parties]

You'd have a point if this were 1996.

We went 9-7 in in 1996 and missed the playoffs with a very solid defense and a top rushing attack.

I'll give you 1 guess why.

[BigMeatballDave]

Could someone please explain to me why its cool to be so negative about your favorite team?

[BigMeatballDave]

We went 9-7 in in 1996 and missed the playoffs with a very solid defense and a top rushing attack.

I'll give you 1 guess why.

Steve Bono

[Titty Meat]

Could someone please explain to me why its cool to be so negative about your favorite team?

It's called being realistic.

[Hammock Parties]

Could someone please explain to me why its cool to be so negative about your favorite team?

It's not that it's cool.

It's more that it's not cool to be positive when we have idiots stacked on top of idiots in key leadership positions, dragging down an otherwise talented team.

[vailpass]

Could someone please explain to me why its cool to be so negative about your favorite team?

You always hurt the one you love

[BigMeatballDave]

It's called being realistic.

You can be realistic without the negativity. It doesnt make you a homer or True Fan.

[Chiefnj2]

So, you have no faith on our D?

The D that gave up blowout losses to the Jets, Bills, Lions, Dolphins and Pats?

Very inconsistent.

[Titty Meat]

You can be realistic without the negativity. It doesnt make you a homer or True Fan.

How was I being negative? I was making an argument based on facts.

[BigMeatballDave]

The D that gave up blowout losses to the Jets, Bills, Lions, Dolphins and Pats?

Very inconsistent.

Mostly due to a horrible offense.

If you continue to put you D in the position that they were, this shit happens.

You'd know this if you weren't a moron.

[Hammock Parties]

The D that gave up blowout losses to the Jets, Bills, Lions, Dolphins and Pats?

Very inconsistent.

Common denominator during those blowouts: terrible QB play, especially on third down.

That's why Kyle Orton is my sweet baboo. At least he can move those chains.

[BigMeatballDave]

Common denominator during those blowouts: terrible QB play, especially on third down.

That's why Kyle Orton is my sweet baboo. At least he can move those chains.Sweet Baboo? LOL

[Chiefnj2]

Mostly due to a horrible offense.

If you continue to put you D in the position that they were, this shit happens.

You'd know this if you weren't a moron.

I thought the Jets and Bills and perhaps even the Lions had the ball first and drove their team to TD's even before a single 3 and out.

[Blick]

Our defense has shown the ability to frustrate good QB's if Romeo dials up the pressure.

Look at the last time we played Manning. Last year with Rodgers. Big Ben. Rivers threw for a lot of yards but 0 TD's and 4 picks.

The idea that we can't compete against real QB's or a tough schedule is wrong.