Mellinger - It’s hard to ignore Sporting KC’s success

[|Zach|]

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/05/25/3627698/its-hard-to-ignore-sporting-kcs.html

Good read. Also very observant in regards to the neighborhood comment.

It’s hard to ignore Sporting KC’s success

By SAM MELLINGER

The Kansas City Star

The newest big thing in Kansas City sports is a lawyer in a rainbow wig and a teacher day-drinking in the parking lot and a grassroots fan movement turned into 20,000 people packing a gorgeous $200 million stadium Sunday for a regular summer happening that by now is just stubborn to ignore.

The newest big thing in KC sports is not a fad. This is Juan cooking tacos and Jeff passing out miniature liquor bottles and more than a thousand people joined by a Facebook page where, among other things, they share pictures and make travel plans and memorize chants for the next Sporting Kansas City game.

This is a story about soccer. That will turn some of you off immediately, so we might as well get that out of the way. This is a story about a team playing a sport that some of you don’t respect, either because it’s too slow (not true) or there’s not enough scoring (debatable) or the culture of players flopping to draw penalties (endlessly annoying but not part of Sporting KC’s style).

Maybe you can’t think about soccer — even professional soccer being played well by grown men in a wildly fast growing league — without making a joke about orange slices and Capri Suns.

That’s fine. This is a free country, after all, and more to the point a country with an insane amount of entertainment options. You can watch a movie, play the slots or pool, read historical fiction, play with your kids, go antiquing, start a garden, whatever you want to do, but if you’re still dismissing professional soccer simply because it’s professional soccer then you should at least pause long enough to consider two inalienable facts.

This isn’t going away.

And you’re missing a heck of a show.

One of the reasons this professional soccer team will continue to be a success in Kansas City is that you don’t need to like professional soccer to help make it a success.

Here’s a fun game: Close your eyes and think real hard about what you want from your local sports teams. Use the Royals and Chiefs if you’d like. Think about what is most important to you as a fan. Don’t go to the next paragraph until you’re ready.

Got it?

OK, now listen to what CEO Robb Heineman wants people to notice about Sporting Kansas City.

“Hopefully they’ll say we’re winners,” he says. “That we’re winners and that we’re local. Those are the two biggest brand personalities we’re trying to push.”

Sounds an awful lot like answers to two prevailing criticisms of the Royals and Chiefs, no?

To be sure, Heineman makes a point that this has nothing to do with what’s across town. This is about Sporting, nobody else, and Heineman is just making the point that his ownership group is hypercompetitive and will do whatever it takes to win and is made up of men who call Kansas City home.

But the juxtaposition is impossible to miss.

“This is just so un-Kansas City,” says Mike Zuck, a Sporting KC season-ticket holder. “This is just nothing like what I’m used to around here.”

Actually, Zuck is a pretty good personification of how Sporting plans on building market share.

Zuck is 31 years old. He manages a store in the Legends shopping district. He grew up north of the river, in Gladstone, and played soccer growing up but always rooted more for the Chiefs and Royals than Wizards or Wiz. But today, he is a grown man who spends a portion of his paycheck on season tickets for soccer instead of football or baseball.

And this is the part of Sporting’s long-term vision that’s just stuffed with potential.

“Kansas City’s a little different,” Heineman says. “You’re seeing kind of that first generation now coming through with disposable income to spend on season tickets, they’re making decisions. And because the building’s so great, because value is there, we’re winning some of those situations.”

This is critical. Projections are very kind to soccer. For instance, an ESPN poll indicated that Americans ages 12 to 24 rank professional soccer as their second favorite sport behind the NFL. This is pro soccer as defined by the MLS and international leagues, an important distinction, but it’s also a statistic being passed around the television networks and advertising agencies as proof of the sport’s growth potential in this country.

Viewed in that prism, Kansas City and its pro soccer team are something like the perfect test case.

To be sure, Sporting is a distant third in the most measurable local interest: Royals average attendance is 22,831 compared with 19,017 for Sporting, and the soccer team is watched on TV by fewer than half as many people for fewer than one-third as many games.

It’s just that Sporting is shortening the gap. The club should sell out all but one home game this summer, better than even optimistic in-house projections, and has a disproportionately young fan base.

That young fan base is graduating college and making money and earning promotions.

You can see where this is headed, right?

They like to say Livestrong Sporting Park has different “neighborhoods.” Kids and families keep it smiley on one side, 40-somethings keep it classy on another, and the maniacs in the Cauldron keep it live behind the east goal.

You can find just about anyone here. They are hipsters in those old-school newsie hats, sports fans wearing Royals hats, and partiers wearing Native American headgear. They are 36-year-old women in mom jeans with kids who still have their shin guards on, and they are divorcees on dates.

They are former soccer players who will tell you exactly how that last goal developed and they are newbies just here for the show. Some of them act as if they just want to see a game, others as if they just don’t want college to end. Over on one end, there are three fans dressed in those weird blue man suits, the costumes off enough that you see it might be a father and his two sons.

Arrowhead Stadium is louder, and the K has more history. The Chiefs will always dominate Kansas City, and the Royals will always have the chance to ignite this area for a summer. Sporting KC has a ways to go still but is moving toward a seat at the big-boy table.

Professional soccer has long been the bastard child of our local sports scene, but those days are over. This is not a passing fancy, and it is much more than the novelty of a beautiful new stadium.

This is a business plan merging with a maturing fan base merging with a national trend. This isn’t fading. It’s growing.

Ignore it if you’d like. But you should know that’ll be much harder to do.

--------------------------

Game preview for their upcoming match Sunday vs San Jose on NBC Sports at 3:30

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[Phobia]

It's not hard at all. Trust me, I'd love to be a fan of a local winner.

[|Zach|]

It's not hard at all. Trust me, I'd love to be a fan of a local winner.

Even when they did win it all Clark Hunt stole the damn trophy. LMAO

[Fairplay]

Its a beautiful thing. This sport is catching on and everyone loves a winner.

[|Zach|]

Its a beautiful thing. This sport is catching on and everyone loves a winner.

It has been interesting seeing the growing pains of the supporter groups, staff, team, and basically everyone involved adjusting to managing something that is really popular and in demand.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I'm honestly glad KC has a winning team. Now if I could just make myself give a shit about soccer.

[|Zach|]

I'm honestly glad KC has a winning team. Now if I could just make myself give a shit about soccer.

Go out and catch a game. Not saying you will love it or being instantly converted. Shit doesn't work like that...but go out and catch a game...on a nice night. You might be surprised.

[Psyko Tek]

phoenix has 2 WNBA championships

[CrazyPhuD]

phoenix has 2 WNBA championships

LOL....then again there is something about this and standards. You can say you want to build a winning team, but in reality there will only ever be one winning team per season in every sport. The rest are losers, the magnitude of the loss is almost unimportant.

[Bugeater]

Not really, thread tools>ignore this thread.

Viola, ignored.

[Ultra Peanut]

SKC rules (we're totally gonna crush you even without our two starting forwards, though. SORRY, deal with it), and the cool thing is that it's basically already too late a date to be able to ask "will soccer ever catch on in America?" anymore. Its niche has been successfully carved out, there is a huge subset of young adults who've grown up watching the sport or have picked it up in adolescence, MLS is continuing to improve both on the field and in the stands (only one team has serious stadium concerns and even minor league attendance seems to be growing tremendously), and with their new TV deal the league is actually securely profitable.

It's beautiful to see such a great sport become a totally natural interest among wide swaths of the population. It's weird that it happened in the blink of an eye and without any more catalyzing USMNT moments than this admittedly pretty fucking incredible moment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALJu7YPMNBI).

Point being, MLS is awesome and absurd. Watch it, nerds.

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[Deberg_1990]

Ill have to try and catch a game when im up in KC this summer. I dont think i will ever like soccer as much as Baseball and football, but it has grown on me.

Nice to see KC have a winner for once.

[Deberg_1990]

The column does kind of make some good points about a new generation and what they are choosing to spend their money on.

Ive said for awhile now the Royals have completely lost a generation or two of fans.

[tredadda]

LOL....then again there is something about this and standards. You can say you want to build a winning team, but in reality there will only ever be one winning team per season in every sport. The rest are losers, the magnitude of the loss is almost unimportant.

Watch what you say, this is CP where a playoff win is considered a smashing success and reason to burn cars and loot in the streets in celebration.

[milkman]

Watch what you say, this is CP where a playoff win is considered a smashing success and reason to burn cars and loot in the streets in celebration.

Marty had a number of seasons that can be labeled as successful, but he had SB calibre talent, and ten years to get there, so over the course of his tenure, while you can't call his time a failure, neither can it be deemed successful.

I don't watch soccer, and don't give one flying fuck about it, but if this Sporting KC (stupid fucking name, btw) has championship calibre talent and fail to win a championship while that talent is in place, then it is not successful.

[JD10367]

I'm honestly glad KC has a winning team. Now if I could just make myself give a shit about soccer.

Soccer. We sittin' here talkin' 'bout soccer. Not a game. Not a game, like football. We talkin' 'bout soccer.

[Reaper16]

People that don't like soccer don't actually enjoy sports.

[JD10367]

People that don't like soccer don't actually enjoy sports.

Not sure I'd agree with that. I think soccer's drawback is the giant size of the playing field and the relatively slow movement of the pieces. Americans are ADD and are used to more quick-moving sports.

As America turns more non-white, the foreign/European influence of soccer will increase. But, honestly, the only reason little kids play it is because it's a cheap game for their parents to enroll them in.

As for KC's team, it's nice that they're doing well, but they shouldn't kid themselves. It's like reading about the homely librarian who puts on a little makeup and gets some guys at the bar to notice her. If the Royals or Chiefs start winning on a regular basis, it'll be like the hot blonde walked into the bar; you'll see how quickly fans turn to those sports. The area might be thirsty for a winner, so they're grateful for the small (and only) glass of water they're getting, but they'll dump soccer like omaha dumps a chick who eats a Twinkie if baseball and football get their act in gear.

[Reaper16]

Not sure I'd agree with that. I think soccer's drawback is the giant size of the playing field and the relatively slow movement of the pieces. Americans are ADD and are used to more quick-moving sports.

As America turns more non-white, the foreign/European influence of soccer will increase. But, honestly, the only reason little kids play it is because it's a cheap game for their parents to enroll them in.

As for KC's team, it's nice that they're doing well, but they shouldn't kid themselves. It's like reading about the homely librarian who puts on a little makeup and gets some guys at the bar to notice her. If the Royals or Chiefs start winning on a regular basis, it'll be like the hot blonde walked into the bar; you'll see how quickly fans turn to those sports. The area might be thirsty for a winner, so they're grateful for the small (and only) glass of water they're getting, but they'll dump soccer like omaha dumps a chick who eats a Twinkie if baseball and football get their act in gear.

Baseball is an ADD fast-movement sport? You learn something everyday.

[stevieray]

People that don't like soccer don't actually enjoy sports.

STFU.

[Reaper16]

STFU.

I won't, sir. I think my statement is correct. There are a lot of people who watch sports and think they enjoy sports, but what they really enjoy is watching stuff happening and water cooler talk.

Why do we enjoy sports? It's the combination of athleticism, tactics, narrative, tension, place-based-pride, teamwork, offense AND defense. Soccer has all of these things in spades.

Whether they realize it or not, so-called sports fans that don't like soccer have the same mentality towards sports as people who support the direction that the NFL is heading. You simply cannot in one hand decry the rules changes that make the NFL more offense-driven and in the other hand blast soccer for being too low-scoring.

What are the other complaints against soccer? The problem with flopping? It happens, but it also happens just as much in basketball. And increasingly in football (especially at the NFL level). I acknowledge that there are pros and cons with the idea that games can end in a tie. It opens up tactical possibilities where a team doesn't try at all to win a game, just to keep it tied. That's problematic on some levels but tactically interesting on others.

But really, every single thing that we love about sports is found in soccer. It's an incredible sport.

[Chopped Meat]

I think the real issue with Sporting KC is they play in a minor league compared to the Chiefs and Royals who play among the highest level of competition in their respective sports.

A MLS champion has yet to win the CONCACAF Champions League.

Among world soccer circuits, I would place the MLS around the 14th best in the world.

These following leagues are superior:

1. English Premier
2. La Liga
3. Bundesliga
4. Serie A
5. Ligue 1 (France)
6. Primeira Liga (Portugal)
7. Eredivisie (Netherlands)
8. RPL (Russia)
9. Serie A (Brazil)
10. Argentina Primera Division
11. Primera Division (Mexico)
12. Super Lig (Turkey)
13. Bundesliga 2

[Reaper16]

I think the real issue with Sporting KC is they play in a minor league compared to the Chiefs and Royals who play among the highest level of competition in their respective sports.

A MLS champion has yet to win the CONCACAF Champions League.

Among world soccer circuits, I would place the MLS around the 14th best in the world.

These following leagues are superior:

1. English Premier
2. La Liga
3. Bundesliga
4. Serie A
5. Ligue 1 (France)
6. Primeira Liga (Portugal)
7. Eredivisie (Netherlands)
8. RPL (Russia)
9. Serie A (Brazil)
10. Argentina Primera Division
11. Primera Division (Mexico)
12. Super Lig (Turkey)
13. Bundesliga 2

That's not a problem for SKC at all. The people with their minds closed to soccer in this country don't pay attention to the Premier League or etc. It's not about level of competition, it's about how some sports fans in America (typically 35 years of age or older) have a resistance to the sport itself that they haven't examined at all.

[Chopped Meat]

That's not a problem for SKC at all. The people with their minds closed to soccer in this country don't pay attention to the Premier League or etc. It's not about level of competition, it's about how some sports fans in America (typically 35 years of age or older) have a resistance to the sport itself that they haven't examined at all.

If SKC didn't play in a minor league, the casual fan might be more interested in them.

Does a potential SKC MLS championship even register a sound in the grand scale of the soccer universe? Does it mean anything? A potential Chiefs' SB win would be watched on over a billion TV sets worldwide.

Americans like watching the highest brand of competition. That's part of the interest in the Chiefs and Royals.

[tk13]

I won't, sir. I think my statement is correct. There are a lot of people who watch sports and think they enjoy sports, but what they really enjoy is watching stuff happening and water cooler talk.

I don't hate soccer and if it has success in KC then great. But there's really nothing wrong with people who enjoy "watching stuff happening," or water cooler talk. I'm not sure what the point of this statement is other than to make you sound more intelligent than the average moron. Sports is a form of entertainment.

That said, I'm admittedly not a huge soccer fan, but I watch it from time to time. I prefer hockey because of the quicker pace of play, the skill it takes to play, and the ability of a game to swing in a matter of seconds. A turnover can lead to a scoring opportunity at the other end in less than 5 seconds, and that can't happen in soccer. But I definitely would say it's weird how people complain about the low scoring games. People love the NFL where you can score 3 times in 3 hours, and it's a good day. It just happens to count for 21 points. Or the soccer fans who complain about how boring baseball is. Makes no sense. But every game has it's own unique qualities that appeal to people for different reasons.

[Reaper16]

If SKC didn't play in a minor league, the casual fan might be more interested in them.

Does a potential SKC MLS championship even register a sound in the grand scale of the soccer universe? Does it mean anything? A potential Chiefs' SB win would be watched on over a billion TV sets worldwide.

Americans like watching the highest brand of competition. That's part of the interest in the Chiefs and Royals.

Here's the problem with the rhetorical approach of your last two posts: you think that SKC needs the interest of "the casual fan." It doesn't. Every game is a sell-out and there is plenty of natural, sustainable growth going on in terms of the fanbase. MLS is really healthy right now and it's going to firmly overtake hockey as the 4th biggest league in American professional sports consciousness within 10-15 years.

It'd be nice if "the casual fan" actually examined why they dislike soccer, and actually cared about soccer's highest levels of club competition (let alone a league at the level of MLS), but at this point it's not a thing that needs to happen now. Because it is already, gradually, inevitably, happening.

[Reaper16]

And if football gets deemphasized/less popular because of the whole concussion business, then soccer in America will be in even better shape.

[Reaper16]

I don't hate soccer and if it has success in KC then great. But there's really nothing wrong with people who enjoy "watching stuff happening," or water cooler talk. I'm not sure what the point of this statement is other than to make you sound more intelligent than the average moron. Sports is a form of entertainment.

I would agree that there's nothing wrong with people who just watch sports to have reasons to talk smack on co-workers or who watch just to see highlight-level plays.

But those people shouldn't pretend that they like sports. The point of the statement is developed in the paragraphs that you didn't quote (feel free to argue against them). The point of the statement is to, ideally, get some soccer-haters to think about why they even enjoy watching sports. As far as I can see, soccer has all of the universal qualities that draw people to sports.

[whoman69]

If only we could say the Chiefs were more important to Clark Hunt.

[boogblaster]

F - soccer .....

[Reaper16]

F - soccer .....

This is grammatically interesting.

[Kyle DeLexus]

HMLS is really healthy right now and it's going to firmly overtake hockey as the 4th biggest league in American professional sports consciousness within 10-15 years.

Which would be a shame because

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vzbmI6-YSnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

is a lot more exciting than

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G_lqMi4ykxg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Reaper16]

Which would be a shame because

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vzbmI6-YSnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

is a lot more exciting than

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G_lqMi4ykxg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I like hockey a heck of a lot, but that Ovechkin goal wasn't in the same realm of impressiveness to me, just because Ovechkin beat one man (in addition to the goalie), whereas the goal scorer in the soccer clip beat like SIX defenders (in addition to the goalie). Both clips are incredibly exciting, though. What impressive body control by Ovechkin.

[keg in kc]

I find it fairly easy to ignore sporting kc and their success.

[Reaper16]

Yes, it's easy to ignore. But it makes you willfully ignorant: stubborn (as Mellinger says), and probably a hypocrite.

[Kyle DeLexus]

I like hockey a heck of a lot, but that Ovechkin goal wasn't in the same realm of impressiveness to me, just because Ovechkin beat one man (in addition to the goalie), whereas the goal scorer in the soccer clip beat like SIX defenders (in addition to the goalie). Both clips are incredibly exciting, though. What impressive body control by Ovechkin.

I guess I'm in the same boat as tk13. The lack of the homerun capability disinterests me from soccer. In football, basketball, and hockey things can happen quick. Then in baseball (which is in more of a summer leisure category for me, I like to watch but I can also have it on in the background and do other stuff) you have the homerun and can pile on the runs in a short amount of time. I appreciate what soccer players do athletically. They have to be in amazing shape and have skills to play, but it's boring to me. I've tried watching because my brother wants to go to a Sporting game, but I can't watch an entire game.

My problem is that I try to compare it to hockey which is non-stop action. When I first started watching I was entertained by the physicality in between goals and now I that I've learned the game, I can appreciate the tactics that go along with it. Soccer doesn't have the physicality (or anything that appeals to me personally) to keep me drawn in long enough to get into it. The most exciting thing seems to be the celebrations and those are as rare as goals.

[Ace Gunner]

been hearing this place is a lot of fun. I'll have to go out there sometime.

[DJJasonp]

SKC have two things the chiefs and Royals (lately) do not have:

1. A winning product
2. A new stadium and entertainment district nearby

I think 2, combined with a growing interest in soccer, is another reason why SKC is drawing so well.

I think back to when the Padres got a downtown stadium....many, many more places to frequent before or after the game. Like it or not, it's a reason people go to games.

[Deberg_1990]

SKC have two things the chiefs and Royals (lately) do not have:

1. A winning product
2. A new stadium and entertainment district nearby

I think 2, combined with a growing interest in soccer, is another reason why SKC is drawing so well.

I think back to when the Padres got a downtown stadium....many, many more places to frequent before or after the game. Like it or not, it's a reason people go to games.


I think they are feeding somewhat off the Royals lack of success. Especially the 35 and younger crowd.

Good for them for putting together a winner.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Reaper16]

I guess I'm in the same boat as tk13. The lack of the homerun capability disinterests me from soccer. In football, basketball, and hockey things can happen quick. Then in baseball (which is in more of a summer leisure category for me, I like to watch but I can also have it on in the background and do other stuff) you have the homerun and can pile on the runs in a short amount of time. I appreciate what soccer players do athletically. They have to be in amazing shape and have skills to play, but it's boring to me. I've tried watching because my brother wants to go to a Sporting game, but I can't watch an entire game.

My problem is that I try to compare it to hockey which is non-stop action. When I first started watching I was entertained by the physicality in between goals and now I that I've learned the game, I can appreciate the tactics that go along with it. Soccer doesn't have the physicality (or anything that appeals to me personally) to keep me drawn in long enough to get into it. The most exciting thing seems to be the celebrations and those are as rare as goals.


Soccer seems pretty quick to me. Not hockey quick; certainly not. But soccer seems actually faster than football to me, with just as much possibility for a "home run ball" (as football commentators sometimes call long TD passes).

As for physicality, try watching MLS games. I find MLS to be a very physical league compared to some of the Eurpoean leagues (I think the officials, smartly, let some fouls go uncalled). Sporting KC themselves are a very physical team; they win lots of balls in the air and aren't afraid to get their jerseys dirty.

[stevieray]

[QUOTE=Reaper16;8639555] I think my statement is correct. QUOTE]

I'm sure you do, doesn't make it so. In fact, it leans towards patently absurd.

Soccer, like any other game or sport, is not the barometer of endorsement/enjoyment of said activities.

Soccer, like any other sport or game, or many other things, is subjective...you don't get to decide for everyone else, based on nothing more than your opinion.

....is Sporting KC's success a good thing? sure, on many levels...but it's nothing more than that. While I think it's great that soccer fans in KC have a team and stadium, it doesn't define sports or sports fans.

It's just another facet of entertainment for people who enjoy it.

[Reaper16]

I'm sure you do, doesn't make it so. In fact, it leans towards patently absurd.

Soccer, like any other game or sport, is not the barometer of endorsement/enjoyment of said activities.

Soccer, like any other sport or game, or many other things, is subjective...you don't get to decide for everyone else, based on nothing more than your opinion.

....is Sporting KC's success a good thing? sure, on many levels...but it's nothing more than that. While I think it's great that soccer fans in KC have a team and stadium, it doesn't define sports or sports fans.

It's just another facet of entertainment for people who enjoy it.

Thanks for avoiding the questions I raise in the rest of the post.

[stevieray]

Thanks for avoiding the questions I raise in the rest of the post.

...thanks for being intellectually dishonest.

I'm addressing the statement I responded to, which, like the rest of your take, is nothing more than conjecture.

[007]

One of these days I'll give it a shot.

[Reaper16]

...thanks for being intellectually dishonest.

I'm addressing the statement I responded to, which, like the rest of your take, is nothing more than conjecture.

Your last post doesn't say anything apart from "just opinions, bro." I brought a point that either exists outside of opinion or fails to consider some things. I'm hoping someone that doesn't like soccer will come in to say what it is that I'm failing to consider.

From my earlier posts: There are a lot of people who watch sports and think they enjoy sports, but what they really enjoy is watching stuff happening and water cooler talk.

Why do we enjoy sports? It's the combination of athleticism, tactics, narrative, tension, place-based-pride, teamwork, offense AND defense. Soccer has all of these things in spades.

Whether they realize it or not, so-called sports fans that don't like soccer have the same mentality towards sports as people who support the direction that the NFL is heading. You simply cannot in one hand decry the rules changes that make the NFL more offense-driven and in the other hand blast soccer for being too low-scoring.

What are the other complaints against soccer? The problem with flopping? It happens, but it also happens just as much in basketball. And increasingly in football (especially at the NFL level). I acknowledge that there are pros and cons with the idea that games can end in a tie. It opens up tactical possibilities where a team doesn't try at all to win a game, just to keep it tied. That's problematic on some levels but tactically interesting on others.

But really, every single thing that we love about sports is found in soccer. It's an incredible sport.
...
I would agree that there's nothing wrong with people who just watch sports to have reasons to talk smack on co-workers or who watch just to see highlight-level plays.

But those people shouldn't pretend that they like sports. The point of the statement is developed in the paragraphs that you didn't quote (feel free to argue against them). The point of the statement is to, ideally, get some soccer-haters to think about why they even enjoy watching sports. As far as I can see, soccer has all of the universal qualities that draw people to sports.

What about this standpoint of mine is "patently absurd?" What, exactly, does soccer lack that other sports have? Why is soccer derided by some people in this country but other sports celebrated...when it seems to me that soccer has everything that the other sports are celebrated for?

Preferences are one thing. I like baseball more than soccer because of its relaxed pace and difficulty. I like football more because the tactics are more interesting to me and I understand it better. But people outright hate soccer, and I can't think of a reasonable reason for them to.

[stevieray]

and I can't think of a reasonable reason for them to.

know why? because it's neither your responsibilty nor business.

you dig soccer? good for you. nothing more, nothing less.

[Reaper16]

know why? because it's neither your responsibilty nor business.

you dig soccer? good for you. nothing more, nothing less.

Oh c'mon, stevie. You cannot be serious with that. This post of yours wants to negate the very purposes and values of inquiry, discussion, argument, curiosity, and anthropology.

[|Zach|]

This is great.

[007]

Your last post doesn't say anything apart from "just opinions, bro." I brought a point that either exists outside of opinion or fails to consider some things. I'm hoping someone that doesn't like soccer will come in to say what it is that I'm failing to consider.

From my earlier posts:

What about this standpoint of mine is "patently absurd?" What, exactly, does soccer lack that other sports have? Why is soccer derided by some people in this country but other sports celebrated...when it seems to me that soccer has everything that the other sports are celebrated for?

Preferences are one thing. I like baseball more than soccer because of its relaxed pace and difficulty. I like football more because the tactics are more interesting to me and I understand it better. But people outright hate soccer, and I can't think of a reasonable reason for them to.
I don't hate soccer but I also don't prefer it nor do I search it out when I am bored. I do however find that when the world cup is on, I feel a need to watch. Maybe it is just because I want to support the USA in all world sports. I don't know. I understand it when I watch it and I don't really get bored when I have a rooting interest in it.

to answer your question, I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that Americans don't understand the phenomena of it on the global scale. Some really can't stand the way America is looked down upon for not embracing the sport like the rest of the world. Then there are the people that just hate that it was futbol before football. heh :)

[Demonpenz]

I don't really have anything to add, but go SKC!

[Deberg_1990]

, I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that Americans don't understand the phenomena of it on the global scale. Some really can't stand the way America is looked down upon for not embracing the sport like the rest of the world. Then there are the people that just hate that it was futbol before football. heh :)

it's a sport that Americans don't dominate which instantly tunes a lot of sports fans out....which ends up turning to apathy.

[Demonpenz]

I don't know if people really understand how much it is a Pain in the ass for people over on The Lenexa side to get over to the K or Arrowhead, not to mention it is dirty as fuck over in that part of the town, the roads suck, and you can't get to target before or after the game to pick up prescriptions.

[Deberg_1990]

I don't know if people really understand how much it is a Pain in the ass for people over on The Lenexa side to get over to the K or Arrowhead, not to mention it is dirty as **** over in that part of the town, the roads suck, and you can't get to target before or after the game to pick up prescriptions.

Yea but you can easily swing by Taco Bell after a game at The K and pick you up a 10 pack.

[Demonpenz]

it's not even that easy to get to taco bell.

[milkman]

it's a sport that Americans don't dominate which instantly tunes a lot of sports fans out....which ends up turning to apathy.

It's just a bunch of men running around kicking teh ball back and forth across a field, and occassionally into a net.

If the best athletes in the U.S. played the sport, then Americans would dominate.

But the best athletes in the U.S. play football, basketball, and baseball, because that's where the money is in this country.

We don't watch soccer because it's a boring sport played by the second tier athlete in this country.

[DJJasonp]

It's just a bunch of men running around kicking teh ball back and forth across a field, and occassionally into a net.

If the best athletes in the U.S. played the sport, then Americans would dominate.

But the best athletes in the U.S. play football, basketball, and baseball, because that's where the money is in this country.

We don't watch soccer because it's a boring sport played by the second tier athlete in this country.

This tells me you dont know much about soccer.

Look, I love hockey too...and just about any other major sport in this world (and yes, soccer, worldwide, is the #1 sport)....but to say soccer players "kick the ball back and forth" is like saying hockey players hit the puck back and forth.

I guess tennis sucks too?

There's a hell of a lot more to it, if you cared to learn.

I respect that people can have opinions on what they like/dislike....but I dont get all the hate (especially hatred that lacks understanding/knowledge about the game).

And it's a pretty ignorant comment to say "if america's best athletes played soccer, we'd dominate the sport".

[|Zach|]

It's just a bunch of men running around kicking teh ball back and forth across a field, and occassionally into a net.



Meh, this lowest common denominator characterization is weak. But everyone knows that.

[Reaper16]

But the best athletes in the U.S. play football, basketball, and baseball, because that's where the money is in this country.

We don't watch soccer because it's a boring sport played by the second tier athlete in this country.

And why don't we watch the top world leagues, where the sport is played by the world's best non-American, non-Canadian athletes? I guess you'd say because the sport is inherently "boring."

But I bet you don't have a reasonable defense as to why you find soccer boring.

[lewdog]

I totally understand how people can claim that both soccer and baseball are boring. However, baseball is definitely a game within a game. You have different scenarios every inning, different ways to approach different hitters, lineup changes, tons of statistics to follow. What makes baseball exciting is the game within the game because it is much more a thinking game than people give it credit. Because it is such a thinking game, it has a slower pace which some people consider boring and totally fair.

Does soccer contain anything similar? I am seriously asking bc I have never been able to watch an entire soccer game.

[milkman]

And why don't we watch the top world leagues, where the sport is played by the world's best non-American, non-Canadian athletes? I guess you'd say because the sport is inherently "boring."

But I bet you don't have a reasonable defense as to why you find soccer boring.

I became interested in each sport that I'm interested in by watching and finding something that I found interesting to watch.

I watched soccer and found nothing about the sport that interested me in the least, so I did not continue to watch.

I would guess, however, that the fact that it's a sport dominated by countries other than the U.S. plays a big role in the reason for American apathy throuh the years.

It is no coincidence that interest is higher for the 35 and under crowd, since the U.S. has become more competitive in world competition in the last 20 years or so.

[Reaper16]

I became interested in each sport that I'm interested in by watching and finding something that I found interesting to watch.

I watched soccer and found nothing about the sport that interested me in the least, so I did not continue to watch.


See, this is what I'm interested in. Because to me, soccer has every single thing that makes other good sports compelling. What is soccer lacking for you that can be found in the sports you enjoy watching?

[|Zach|]

I totally understand how people can claim that both soccer and baseball are boring. However, baseball is definitely a game within a game. You have different scenarios every inning, different ways to approach different hitters, lineup changes, tons of statistics to follow. What makes baseball exciting is the game within the game because it is much more a thinking game than people give it credit. Because it is such a thinking game, it has a slower pace which some people consider boring and totally fair.

Does soccer contain anything similar? I am seriously asking bc I have never been able to watch an entire soccer game.

I don't connect with baseball but I don't shit on it either and I see why people like it and you described it well above.

I would say there are a lot of amazing things going on almost always but its very fluid and very dynamic because...the shit does not stop a lot. I do photography for the team in Kansas City and it sort of dawned on me while I was shooting.

The run of play or action can go absolutely anywhere. It is so dynamic. The ability to create offense and switch up an attack. In football you have the line of scrimmage and the offense is trying to go one way all action and unfolding action is going pretty much one direction. Baseball you have these set bases and the ball can land anywhere i suppose but there is nothing dynamic or interesting about how an attacking action happens. I hope I am explaining myself well because it isn't a criticism.

In soccer the ability to attack and build up play is so dynamic because the field is so absolutely wide open and the options for offense can happen in so many different and interesting ways.

Below I think is a pretty good example. Seeing the build up of this goal that sealed a nice win earlier in the season you can see all of the people that were involved in the run up to that goal. Think about each touch those players took and how they could have played it differently or ran differently. Someone smarter than me made a great post with this happened breaking down this whole thing and how impressive it was especially showing when Kei made his first touch in midfield he sprinted to the perfect open space and a few passes later he was the one who made the goal.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MbGnoWKUhTs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[|Zach|]

Another thing comes to mind especially now that we are talking about baseball so much. Reaper may disagree with me here because he loves baseball more than I do but...the idea that I find really silly is one that gets thrown around a lot. The idea that the only time something exciting happening is when a goal gets scored. That is simply...simply not the case.

All you have to do is look at something like game 2 of the World Series last year. An exciting game in an exciting series that ended up being a 2-1 game. That whole game had drama because of the build up of possible runs and then runs.

Soccer is interesting most the match because the ability to score is always there. Sometimes they come out of nowhere. The ability for the game to be completely turned up on its head is absolutely there. When there are corner kicks...runs in the box...build up to shots on frame? It is a span of time for the people who are enjoying soccer games during those spans of the game.

It is like having runners on base. When runners are in a scoring position in a tight big baseball game everyone knows what the situation is...what happens in these situations of danger is going to control the outcome of the game.

Just tonight in DC. DC United was play the NE Revolution. DCU was up 3-2 in the waining moments of the game. They need to secure a win and NE was knocking on the door. NE kept making dangerous attacking runs and this amazing save which most often times would be a goal sealed the win for DCU. It wasn't a goal but it was good attacking play that had the balance of the game in its hands.

http://youtu.be/0t9Y64FY7Qg?t=7m

Soccer...just like any sport isn't always exciting. Style of play is more dynamic than other sports and negative shitty soccer is out there in the world. You don't see a lot of it in the MLS and you certainly don't see it from SKC.

[Reaper16]

Another thing comes to mind especially now that we are talking about baseball so much. Reaper may disagree with me here because he loves baseball more than I do but...the idea that I find really silly is one that gets thrown around a lot. The idea that the only time something exciting happening is when a goal gets scored. That is simply...simply not the case.

All you have to do is look at something like game 2 of the World Series last year. An exciting game in an exciting series that ended up being a 2-1 game. That whole game had drama because of the build up of possible runs and then runs.

Soccer is interesting most the match because the ability to score is always there. Sometimes they come out of nowhere. The ability for the game to be completely turned up on its head is absolutely there. When there are corner kicks...runs in the box...build up to shots on frame? It is a span of time for the people who are enjoying soccer games during those spans of the game.

It is like having runners on base. When runners are in a scoring position in a tight big baseball game everyone knows what the situation is...what happens in these situations of danger is going to control the outcome of the game.

Just tonight in DC. DC United was play the NE Revolution. DCU was up 3-2 in the waining moments of the game. They need to secure a win and NE was knocking on the door. NE kept making dangerous attacking runs and this amazing save which most often times would be a goal sealed the win for DCU. It wasn't a goal but it was good attacking play that had the balance of the game in its hands.

http://youtu.be/0t9Y64FY7Qg?t=7m

Soccer...just like any sport isn't always exciting. Style of play is more dynamic than other sports and negative shitty soccer is out there in the world. You don't see a lot of it in the MLS and you certainly don't see it from SKC.

I don't disagree with you at all. I think that people who actually think that goal/point/run/etc scoring are the only exciting part of sports are people who don't actually like sports. People who like sports like the whole drama involved, who appreciate the difficulty of scoring (in any sport).

As for soccer v baseball, soccer is more fluid than baseball, for sure. Faster, for sure. There's lots of tactics involved in baseball. Lots. But ultimately it comes down for me to the allure of pitching (arguably the 2nd hardest thing to do in ALL of sports) vs hitting (arguably the single hardest thing to do in ALL of sports). There's so much physics at play with every pitch of every at-bat that it'll make your head spin. I love baseball for that.

[milkman]

See, this is what I'm interested in. Because to me, soccer has every single thing that makes other good sports compelling. What is soccer lacking for you that can be found in the sports you enjoy watching?

As a kid watching football, I was intrigued by the physical battles in the trenches between behemoths.

I couldn't look away from these huge men pummeling each other.

In baseball, I was intrigued by the battle between the hitter and pitcher, by the excitement of a stolen base, by the single stretched into a double, and the close play at the plate.
I personally feel that a home run is about the most boring play in all of sports.

Soccer is all about action of non-action.

I must say, I also hate the anouncer's "Goooooooaaaaaaaaal", calls.

I want to kill those fuckers.

[Ultra Peanut]

I guess I'm in the same boat as tk13. The lack of the homerun capability disinterests me from soccer. In football, basketball, and hockey things can happen quick.
Ugh yeah I hate how slow soccer goals are to develop.

cfbY5TbuV0k

-LhmNm3ynLg

Note that Alan Gordon has scored flash goals in or around stoppage time three games in a row.

SOCCER SO SLOWBORING *has never watched a soccer*

[Ultra Peanut]

WHY SOCCER SO TEDIOUS

3Hp2E6DdIvk

OHINCRuwjHw

*smells own butt*

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

0-0

[the Talking Can]

i'm surprised the basic tv format of soccer isn't more appealing to casual sports fans..

soccer is unique in having 45 mins of uninterrupted play....no commercial cutaways...i love it

no switching channels during commercial, no adjusting volume, no waiting for players to line up or pitchers to readjust their hats...set it and forget it, constant motion for 45 mins

[DJay23]

In soccer the ability to attack and build up play is so dynamic because the field is so absolutely wide open and the options for offense can happen in so many different and interesting ways.


To me, football and baseball are like giving a kid a coloring book page with predrawn pictures and some crayons and saying, "color me a pretty picture." Soccer and basketball are like giving the same kid a blank sheet of paper and crayons and saying, "color me a pretty picture." For the kid to get from point A to Point B in the first scenario is very rigid, very spelled out and clear what has to be done. It's easy to spot a mistake and you know exactly what you are going to get most of the time. In the second scenario there are far more options and it's harder to imagine what the kid will do to make the picture. I think both can be very exciting but there's something about the open endedness of basketball and soccer that I find attractive.

It doesn't hurt that all of the teams I follow in basketball and soccer are really good and the teams I follow in football and baseball are mediocre at best.

[KCinNY]

i'm surprised the basic tv format of soccer isn't more appealing to casual sports fans..

soccer is unique in having 45 mins of uninterrupted play....no commercial cutaways...i love it

no switching channels during commercial, no adjusting volume, no waiting for players to line up or pitchers to readjust their hats...set it and forget it, constant motion for 45 mins

I agree with this.

Not a big soccer fan, but I've watched a few SKC games and I enjoy the World Cup alot. I do love how the game is constant and lacks the ceaseless barrage of stupid, unwatchable commercials that accompany football on TV. Also, most of soccer's commentators are rather understated while most football announcers(Ian Eagle, Chris Collinsworth and Dan Fouts come to mind) seem to be doing their level best to annoy me at every opportunity.

[|Zach|]

i'm surprised the basic tv format of soccer isn't more appealing to casual sports fans..

soccer is unique in having 45 mins of uninterrupted play....no commercial cutaways...i love it

no switching channels during commercial, no adjusting volume, no waiting for players to line up or pitchers to readjust their hats...set it and forget it, constant motion for 45 mins

This as well. It makes the NFL maddening in comparison.

[KCUnited]

I haven't connected to Sporting or soccer in general simply due to a finite amount of personal resources such as time, money, and emotion. Plus, the constant validation attempts by some fans of the sport can be a bit of a turn off, but I get why some soccer fans feel they always have to be on the defense.

That said, while I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Sporting, as a Kansas Citian I hope they dominate their sport and their fans get to enjoy all the fruits that come with that domination for a long, long time.

[The Bunk]

That's not a problem for SKC at all. The people with their minds closed to soccer in this country don't pay attention to the Premier League or etc. It's not about level of competition, it's about how some sports fans in America (typically 35 years of age or older) have a resistance to the sport itself that they haven't examined at all.

It actually is. I love the EPL, and watch it regularly. But I have a hard time viewing MLS as much more than the scrubs who couldn't make it in Europe.

[Ultra Peanut]

That's a really dumb way of looking at it. There's so much depth and so much talent in the world of soccer that looking down on the quality of play outside of, say, the Big Three or whatever is shutting yourself off to unbelievably exciting, entertaining matches. The style and quality of play in MLS is so far ahead of where it was five years ago, much less when I started watching the league ten years ago, and it's only getting better. And the entire thing isn't even two decades old.

Not to mention that MLS is consistently the funniest, weirdest, most unpredictable sports league I follow. "Where Ridiculous Happens" should be its motto, and I love it for that.

[Fish]

I haven't connected to Sporting or soccer in general simply due to a finite amount of personal resources such as time, money, and emotion. Plus, the constant validation attempts by some fans of the sport can be a bit of a turn off, but I get why some soccer fans feel they always have to be on the defense.

That said, while I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Sporting, as a Kansas Citian I hope they dominate their sport and their fans get to enjoy all the fruits that come with that domination for a long, long time.

This sums it up for me too. I played soccer when I was young, and have never had much reason to dislike it. It's just never become something that I enjoy like I do other sports. And I don't think I need to type out 5 paragraphs to justify why I don't like it. I just don't. I find it boring.

It bothers me as well, that soccer fans feel the need to defend the sport so much. The constant "IT'S JUST AS GOOD, TELL ME WHY YOU THINK YOU DON'T LIKE IT AND I'LL VIGOROUSLY DEBATE YOU AND SHOW YOU WHY YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY A SPORTS FAN!!" gets old.

The ties really bother me though. How in bloody hell can you have a huge grand opening of a new awesome sports stadium and have your first ever game end in a damn tie? How can they let fans go home from an experience like that with no winner defined. That's just never made any sense to me...

[|Zach|]

This sums it up for me too. I played soccer when I was young, and have never had much reason to dislike it. It's just never become something that I enjoy like I do other sports. And I don't think I need to type out 5 paragraphs to justify why I don't like it. I just don't. I find it boring.

It bothers me as well, that soccer fans feel the need to defend the sport so much. The constant "IT'S JUST AS GOOD, TELL ME WHY YOU THINK YOU DON'T LIKE IT AND I'LL VIGOROUSLY DEBATE YOU AND SHOW YOU WHY YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY A SPORTS FAN!!" gets old.

The ties really bother me though. How in bloody hell can you have a huge grand opening of a new awesome sports stadium and have your first ever game end in a damn tie? How can they let fans go home from an experience like that with no winner defined. That's just never made any sense to me...

As a soccer fan yea...I hate it when others try to sell it like that brow beating people. That is why this has been a pretty cool thread.

As far as the ties go...there are not many of them but this is what I have learned. A tie is never really a tie at all. There are expectations or context that always make it a disappointment or an encouraging result. If soccer isn't for somebody? Hey, thats cool. That is exactly what Phobia told me and I believed him. However the disengenious ridiculous shit that gets brought up in anti soccer stuff we respond to...which has also been seen in this thread.

Generally you feel "ok" about getting 1 point (3 points awarded for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss) when playing on the road.

If you go into a place where people don't usually win and you are a struggling team and the opposing team is great? a 1-1 tie isn't at all a bad feeling.

On the flip side this happened to KC last week they went up 2 goals early but then gave up to which gave us a tie game. That was a huge dissapointment...you need to close the game out up by 2 goals.

A tie has never been a tie...at least in my fandom.

[|Zach|]

Just a reminder. :)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2012/05/preview_SKCSJ.jpg

[Titty Meat]

No it really isn't hard to ignore a minor league teams success people did it all the time with the Comets and Blades.

[Ultra Peanut]

That's a really dumb way of looking at it. There's so much depth and so much talent in the world of soccer that looking down on the quality of play outside of, say, the Big Three or whatever is shutting yourself off to unbelievably exciting, entertaining matches. The style and quality of play in MLS is so far ahead of where it was five years ago, much less when I started watching the league ten years ago, and it's only getting better. And the entire thing isn't even two decades old.

Not to mention that MLS is consistently the funniest, weirdest, most unpredictable sports league I follow. "Where Ridiculous Happens" should be its motto, and I love it for that.ALSO: It's your fucking home league, you plastic fan.

It's totally cool to like other leagues -- I love following the Eredivisie and the Tippeligaen and the Bundesliga and the EPL, too -- but putting down the league you have the most access to is dumb.

[Pablo]

I've caught a couple of SKC games. One at Arrowhead, where they beat ManU; and it seemed as if SKC(maybe still the Wizards) fans were outnumbered 2 to 1. That was a fun game. Then I caught a game at Livestrong a year ago that ended 0-0. I didn't enjoy that at all. I can understand the notion that a tie can still be a positive outcome in soccer; but I need a winner. Maybe that makes me a knuckle-dragging fuck stain that doesn't appreciate the beauty of sports in general; but I need to see a winner and a loser for each game.

That's got to be the biggest turn off for me. And the fact that I have Time Warner and I can put a Royals game on the background damn near every night. I've looked for SKC games on my cable guide but I don't know what channel they're carried on.

[Ultra Peanut]

Maybe that makes me a knuckle-dragging fuck stain that doesn't appreciate the beauty of sports in general; but I need to see a winner and a loser for each game. YUP

http://i.imgur.com/RmBOr.jpg

[007]

Just a reminder. :)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2012/05/preview_SKCSJ.jpg

I mentioned this to a buddy last night. Might his a local bar to watch. Thought about attending but I don't want to sit out in 90 degree heat all afternoon. Had it been a night game though....

[|Zach|]

I've caught a couple of SKC games. One at Arrowhead, where they beat ManU; and it seemed as if SKC(maybe still the Wizards) fans were outnumbered 2 to 1. That was a fun game. Then I caught a game at Livestrong a year ago that ended 0-0. I didn't enjoy that at all. I can understand the notion that a tie can still be a positive outcome in soccer; but I need a winner. Maybe that makes me a knuckle-dragging **** stain that doesn't appreciate the beauty of sports in general; but I need to see a winner and a loser for each game.

That's got to be the biggest turn off for me. And the fact that I have Time Warner and I can put a Royals game on the background damn near every night. I've looked for SKC games on my cable guide but I don't know what channel they're carried on.

Every single one is on KSMO if not NBC Sports or ESPN like earlier this year.

[Pablo]

YUPI can live with that.

[|Zach|]

I can live with that.

Wait. Was it the Newcastle game you went to?

[Pablo]

Wait. Was it the Newcastle game you went to?Yep. It was hot as fuck that night too.

[Ultra Peanut]

I mentioned this to a buddy last night. Might his a local bar to watch. Thought about attending but I don't want to sit out in 90 degree heat all afternoon. Had it been a night game though....
You should watch if you're at all interested, for what it's worth. The Quakes are my favorite team and they were not only top of the league going into this weekend but they've been playing their most gorgeous soccer since they won the Supporters' Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supporters%27_Shield) in 2005. They string together incredible passes and have a knack for drama.

Even missing four starters they're almost guaranteed to put together some incredibly satisfying play, though lately they've gotten off to slow starts and have had to charge back at the end (which is admittedly not horrible for neutral viewing purposes). I love the Quakes so much and it's amazing to see them playing so well again.

Plus it's at SKC, which has one of the best stadium atmospheres in a league that's become incredibly competitive in that respect.

[|Zach|]

Yea, had to be...that is the only 0-0 draw that I can remember at LSP.

That game was awful...just awful...but did Newcastle being in preseason really draw you in that much?

The outcome of the game didn't matter.

Could you imagine rolling your eyes a bit at someone going to Arrowhead or a Chiefs game for the first time. Going to a preseason game and then shrugging their shoulders like "meh, i dont see what the big woop was"

It wasn't a real game. Just like the Newcastle game.

You are right. It was hot as shit...and the game didn't matter. I really really hate those EPL friendlies...eurosnobs get all worked up for a game that doesn't mean shit to either side.

That was a miserable day.

[Pablo]

Yea, had to be...that is the only 0-0 draw that I can remember at LSP.

That game was awful...just awful...but did Newcastle being in preseason really draw you in that much?

The outcome of the game didn't matter.

Could you imagine rolling your eyes a bit at someone going to Arrowhead or a Chiefs game for the first time. Going to a preseason game and then shrugging their shoulders like "meh, i dont see what the big woop was"

It wasn't a real game. Just like the Newcastle game.Yeah, I had no idea it was basically a pre-season game for them until just now. That could explain the lackluster performance and pace I watched.

[|Zach|]

Yeah, I had no idea it was basically a pre-season game for them until just now. That could explain the lackluster performance and pace I watched.

Yea when those EPL teams come to town it is a preseason tune up. I did some photographs at their training session and those guys got in this heat they were like... "wtf this is fucking terrible" lol. Both teams have a mix of starters and reserve guys.

Anyway come to an MLS game sometime you might not love it but its worth checking out.

[Pablo]

My friend's brother follows Euro soccer and he bought the tickets. I was just asked last minute to fill in and obliged. I imagine the ManU game I watched at Arrowhead was the same type of game then as well. At least I got to see SKC win that one, though.

[Ultra Peanut]

Just a reminder. :)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2012/05/preview_SKCSJ.jpg"get the fuck back, guard your grill" - ludacris, 2002ish

[Reaper16]

It bothers me as well, that soccer fans feel the need to defend the sport so much. The constant "IT'S JUST AS GOOD, TELL ME WHY YOU THINK YOU DON'T LIKE IT AND I'LL VIGOROUSLY DEBATE YOU AND SHOW YOU WHY YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY A SPORTS FAN!!" gets old.


I was trolling with that rhetoric in this thread to get posters to reveal their internal logical inconsistencies about the appeal of sports-in-general. I wasn't disappointed.

[Reaper16]

The ability for games to end in a tie is the only reasonable thing I can think of that wouldn't sit well with people. I understand the aversion to that, and I'm adverse to it too only in that the ability to end in a tie can make for some plodding, conservative games if a team really, really doesn't want to lose.

But this seeming need to have a defined winner and a loser for each contest is also, perhaps, an American flaw. An embrace of short-term thinking ("if the rules of the game didn't say that one team wins and another loses then no one really won or lose!") over long-term thinking (any tie can can, over the course of a season, really affect the table/season standings).

[milkman]

The ability for games to end in a tie is the only reasonable thing I can think of that wouldn't sit well with people. I understand the aversion to that, and I'm adverse to it too only in that the ability to end in a tie can make for some plodding, conservative games if a team really, really doesn't want to lose.

But this seeming need to have a defined winner and a loser for each contest is also, perhaps, an American flaw. An embrace of short-term thinking ("if the rules of the game didn't say that one team wins and another loses then no one really won or lose!") over long-term thinking (any tie can can, over the course of a season, really affect the table/season standings).

So, championship games end in ties, right?

[Reaper16]

So, championship games end in ties, right?

Nope. Tournament games (think Champions League or World Cup round of 16 or etc) require a result (usually they play a home and away series for each round of a tournament [MLS' playoff is different than that, trying to feel more like a playoff format that Americans are more used to]). After the second game of the leg, if the teams are tied on aggregate then there is a shootout to determine the winner.

And for league championships (which, outside of MLS, do not have playoffs to determine champions; it's all about the season standings: 3 league points for each win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss), if at the end of the season you have two teams with identical league points and identical tiebreakers (a very rare occurrence) then there could be a special one-game playoff. But outside of MLS there is no "championship game" as such for individual leagues.

[Ultra Peanut]

If I had my druthers MLS wouldn't have a "championship game."

Also, I actually have to leave the house in a bit to eat some food with a friend and her mom, but rest assured I'll be trolling the SKC thread in spirit during the match. I love/hate you guys~

[Fish]

I was trolling with that rhetoric in this thread to get posters to reveal their internal logical inconsistencies about the appeal of sports-in-general. I wasn't disappointed.

Yes, you're quite sneaky in the way you manipulated the discussion to oust the oblivious sports hating soccer critics. Sneaky indeed.

[007]

WTF? I thought this game was on NBC today. Thats what it says on their website.

[Trevo_410]

i can't find a stream :/

[OnTheWarpath15]

WTF? I thought this game was on NBC today. Thats what it says on their website.

NBC Sports Network, AKA, the old Versus Network.

603 on DTV.

[007]

NBC Sports Network, AKA, the old Versus Network.

603 on DTV.

well shit. So much for watching the game

[Trevo_410]

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/124658/1/watch-kansas-city-vs-san-jose-earthquakes.html

Finally got up

[tk13]

In what other sport can you see Gordon Ramsay get destroyed?

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[|Zach|]

So, championship games end in ties, right?

You are just trolling us at this point.

[Deberg_1990]

NFL games can end in ties.

[milkman]

You are just trolling us at this point.

Well, hell.

I never counted on soccer fan with a firm grasp of the obvious.

[rico]

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