Spinoff Thread: Tipping

[kaplin42]

So as not to ruin the Epic Win Thread (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=245075) with mindless offseason banter, I am moving a discussion from there to here.

The start of the discussion went like this:
http://i.imgur.com/wTDX9.jpg

If that is real, that's what she ****ing gets

While I totally agreed that she is dumb ass for using FB in such a manner, I side with her sentiment about the tip. As a form server and bartender, it really use to piss me off when people tipped like shit.

Then take it up with your employer, who forces you to rely on the charity of other people to make a decent wage. Tipping is not a requirement at the majority of restaurants. Your employer's dirty tactics shifts the blame to the customer, who in reality may or may not tip. Which is all within their rights as a customer. Yeah it's shady to not tip when you get good service. But that's the way it goes. Don't get mad at the customer, when your employer set up the system that way.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z-qV9wVGb38" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[kaplin42]

Then take it up with your employer, who forces you to rely on the charity of other people to make a decent wage. Tipping is not a requirement at the majority of restaurants. Your employer's dirty tactics shifts the blame to the customer, who in reality may or may not tip. Which is all within their rights as a customer. Yeah it's shady to not tip when you get good service. But that's the way it goes. Don't get mad at the customer, when your employer set up the system that way.

Ehhh, this is not a new setup, I’m pretty sure servers have been working like this for decades. It's a cultural thing at this point. I have run into people who don't believe in tipping. Your sentiment blames it on the employer, but it's an industry standard at this point.

But let's travel down that road. No more tips for servers and bartenders, employers are going to actually pay them a decent i.e. above minimum wage in CA (FTR in most states, tipped employees make half-minimum wage if that...so what $3, maybe $4 an hour).

Want to guess where all that money is coming from. Ever dish in every restaurant would double in price at least to cover the cost, and that's just food, booze would go up 3x as much. So one could either pay double the price on all items, or throw down an appropriate tip and consider it part of the experience.

So yeah, the whole "tipped employees don't deserve it" attitude is pretty much BS. Not to mention, serving the general public without actually slipping some anti-freeze in their food deserves an award on its own.

[Bowser]

I pride myself on being a decent tipper. Unless the server is a complete airhead moran, they usually get about 20%.

[kaplin42]

I pride myself on being a decent tipper. Unless the server is a complete airhead moran, they usually get about 20%.

Ditto for me. And when I do get crappy service I let them know why they got a shit tip.

[vailpass]

There are lots of food options for people who don't want to tip. But if you choose to accept service at a restaurant but refuse to tip if the service warrants it then you are a cretin, and a prick.

[BWillie]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.

[Fish]

LOL... it's not a cultural thing. Yeah.......

It's the way it is, because it's a huge advantage to the employer. End of story. They can pay employees half of what they deserve, and then pat the waitstaff on the head and say "Well little Susie, you should have done better waiting on that table of 12."

And I never said tipped employees don't deserve it. That is BS. What they don't deserve is for their employer to require the workers to depend on other people who may or may not be oblivious to the fact that their income is dependent on their tip.

For the record, I tip fine. But I do so because of good service. Not because you're convinced it's a cultural thing.

[Johnny Vegas]

hey some people just don't tip good. I'm a bartender and more times than not somebody will make the next tip make up for the shitty tip. I don't let tips control my quality of service. You're going to get the same good service next time you come in if you tipped me or not.

[PunkinDrublic]

The only time I tip at sonic is when the girl is hot and wearing her hair in pigtails.

[DaKCMan AP]

Can we please see some more photos of Sabrina?

[Fish]

Just like in the Reservoir Dogs clip....

Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not? The only answer is that the restaurant world has a system that works in their advantage, and they've convinced the workers that "It's a cultural thing", so they should expect it. Therefore the restaurant feels justified in paying well below minimum wage and putting the responsibility on the waitstaff to make up the rest by putting expectations on an asshole population of patrons.

[Carlota69]

I also pride myself on being a good tipper. 20% is fairly standard for me, but if they suck, then it will be lower.

I also believe their are industries that deserve tipping, waiters, waitress, bartenders, valet etc, but in this town EVERYONE thinks they deserve a tip for doing their job. Smog techs, the bitch wearing the polyester outfit at 7/11. Its out of hand. Period. you cant take a shit int his town without feeling like you gotta tip some chick just because she handed you a towel in the restroom. Fuck that! Wipe my ass and I'll tip you, but handing me a towel? HELL NO.

Again, Waiters, bartenders car valets are providing me a service I am choosing to use. Smog techs? Id rater not use you but I HAVE TO. You arent providing me a service that Im choosing to "enjoy". 7/11 bitch expecting a tip just because she rang up my red Bull??? (True Story BTW--not exaggertaing...) maybe if you came out to my car, asked what I wanted, went inside and got it for me...then we can talk tip.

Its out of hand, in Vegas anyways...

[Johnny Vegas]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.

this really applies in like Vegas where EVERYONE expects a tip. I have to factor in another $200 in just tips for the fucking place. I gotta say though I tip the taxi stand guys, because if you think about it if they weren't there to control the pace and the people it'd be a shit show trying to get a cab in Vegas since people get pissed watching other people "take their cab."

[Bowser]

I also pride myself on being a good tipper. 20% is fairly standard for me, but if they suck, then it will be lower.

I also believe their are industries that deserve tipping, waiters, waitress, bartenders, valet etc, but in this town EVERYONE thinks they deserve a tip for doing their job. Smog techs, the bitch wearing the polyester outfit at 7/11. Its out of hand. Period. you cant take a shit int his town without feeling like you gotta tip some chick just because she handed you a towel in the restroom. Fuck that! Wipe my ass and I'll tip you, but handing me a towel? HELL NO.
Again, Waiters, bartenders car valets are providing me a service I am choosing to use. Smog techs? Id rater not use you but I HAVE TO. You arent providing me a service that Im choosing to "enjoy". 7/11 bitch expecting a tip just because she rang up my red Bull??? (True Story BTW--not exaggertaing...) maybe if you came out to my car, asked what I wanted, went inside and got it for me...then we can talk tip.

Its out of hand, in Vegas anyways...

LMAO

[kaplin42]

LOL... it's not a cultural thing. Yeah.......

It's the way it is, because it's a huge advantage to the employer. End of story. They can pay employees half of what they deserve, and then pat the waitstaff on the head and say "Well little Susie, you should have done better waiting on that table of 12."

And I never said tipped employees don't deserve it. That is BS. What they don't deserve is for their employer to require the workers to depend on other people who may or may not be oblivious to the fact that their income is dependent on their tip.

For the record, I tip fine. But I do so because of good service. Not because you're convinced it's a cultural thing.

I say cultural because it's an American thing, Europeans generaly do not tip. It however is an industry standard and has been for a very long time. Right or wrong, that's how it is.

Agreed on the fact that not eveyrone everywhere deserves a tip. But the person providing a service like a waiter or bartender (which I tip so I will get a better pour for the part) I think do.

You don't tip at McD's because there is no real service, you go to the counter, order, pay, and maybe they bring it to you. That's not really tip worth.

[DaKCMan AP]

Can we please see some more photos of Sabrina?

.

[vailpass]

The only time I tip at sonic is when the girl is hot and wearing her hair in pigtails.

Tipping at Sonic? Isn't that a drive-thru fast food place?

[Saulbadguy]

THIS SHIT AGAIN

[InChiefsHeaven]

Just like in the Reservoir Dogs clip....

Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not? The only answer is that the restaurant world has a system that works in their advantage, and they've convinced the workers that "It's a cultural thing", so they should expect it. Therefore the restaurant feels justified in paying well below minimum wage and putting the responsibility on the waitstaff to make up the rest by putting expectations on an asshole population of patrons.

When I worked at McDonalds they had a policy that we don't accept tips. Who knows why. Maybe they didn't want to deal with trying to get people to declare them or whatever. I made minimum wage.

I used to deliver pizzas which was a sweet gig. They paid me minimum wage, plus tips. They charged a buck per delivery which went to the driver, and anything over that was gravy. So no matter what you knew you would leave with 10-12 bucks cash worst case scenario. I always did better than that.

I worked a lot of service industry jobs as a lad. I tip well. I don't have a problem with it at all, maybe because I've waited tables etc. in the past. Meh. Don't tip if you don't want to, it's a free country. You cheap bastard...

[Fish]

I say cultural because it's an American thing, Europeans generaly do not tip. It however is an industry standard and has been for a very long time. Right or wrong, that's how it is.

Agreed on the fact that not eveyrone everywhere deserves a tip. But the person providing a service like a waiter or bartender (which I tip so I will get a better pour for the part) I think do.

You don't tip at McD's because there is no real service, you go to the counter, order, pay, and maybe they bring it to you. That's not really tip worth.

You could say that for over 80% of the places that expect tips...

[luv]

Just like in the Reservoir Dogs clip....

Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not? The only answer is that the restaurant world has a system that works in their advantage, and they've convinced the workers that "It's a cultural thing", so they should expect it. Therefore the restaurant feels justified in paying well below minimum wage and putting the responsibility on the waitstaff to make up the rest by putting expectations on an asshole population of patrons.

McDonald's and other such fast food places are not service oriented in the same way that restaurants are. You go to the counter to order, get, and pay for your food. In most cases, you get your own refills or take your cup to the counter to have them do it. In these cases, you are doing the work other than the making the product being provided. In other words, Most fast food chains are basically production companies.

Anyway, I tend to agree with you. Nearly no one in the restaurant industry gets minimum wage. The hostesses get a percentage of the servers' tip outs, as does the bartender (because bartenders don't do a lot of the running to the kitchen and don't tend to be responsible for as many tables, or they are simply the service bar bartender making drinks for servers, but not the actual bar). I think the highest paid employees in the restaurant industry, other than management, are the cooks, and they're not even the ones that have to deal with people. The whole system is screwed up if you ask me.

However, I think when one says it's "cultural", they are saying that because things are the way they are because that's the way they've always been. Paying extra for service (more when it's good service) is nothing new. If one restaurant started paying minimum wage, while others did not, the customers would begin being confused. Do I tip here? Do I not tip here? And when the restaurant that does raise the pay ends up having to also raise their prices to the customer, they will lose customers to the restaurants that are not paying their employees as much, even though the customer is likely paying the same price at those restaurants after food + tip. It's kind of an endless cycle.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Curious.... how do you tip at a buffet?

[Bowser]

Curious.... how do you tip at a buffet?

Usually backwards in my seat when I'm done.

HEEYYYY-OOOHHHH

[Bump]

man back in my bartending days you have to get tips. Not everybody does, you just have to suck it up and in the long run you are gonna make way more than min wage even if you have a bunch of crappy tips. Usually at least 20/hr in straight cash when you count what you made for the night, it just sucked when it was a slow night then you don't make shit. But it is what it is and you just have to be mentally prepared for bad tips when it happens and you can't do anything about it. But bartending is easy, most people leave a buck for every drink and I was very appreciative of that. You have some regulars who tips way above average and that pretty much evens out the bad ones. So when I was bartending, I'd usually work from about 6pm-3am, that's 9 hours and a bad night would be $100 and a good night was anywhere from $200-300.

The main thing that sucks is that the bar I worked for made sure you claimed everything for taxes and at the end of the year you have to pay since the business only paid me $2.65 per hour and you'd owe about a grand in taxes every year. You just had to bankroll it and expect it.

[BWillie]

I say cultural because it's an American thing, Europeans generaly do not tip. It however is an industry standard and has been for a very long time. Right or wrong, that's how it is.

Agreed on the fact that not eveyrone everywhere deserves a tip. But the person providing a service like a waiter or bartender (which I tip so I will get a better pour for the part) I think do.

You don't tip at McD's because there is no real service, you go to the counter, order, pay, and maybe they bring it to you. That's not really tip worth.

What if I had the option? Like instead of someone kissing my ass and getting refills, what if I agreed to pick up my food from a counter and obtained refills myself. I would be more than happy with that. I just want someone to cook my food, and do the god damn dishes.

[Fish]

When I worked at McDonalds they had a policy that we don't accept tips. Who knows why. Maybe they didn't want to deal with trying to get people to declare them or whatever. I made minimum wage.

I used to deliver pizzas which was a sweet gig. They paid me minimum wage, plus tips. They charged a buck per delivery which went to the driver, and anything over that was gravy. So no matter what you knew you would leave with 10-12 bucks cash worst case scenario. I always did better than that.

I worked a lot of service industry jobs as a lad. I tip well. I don't have a problem with it at all, maybe because I've waited tables etc. in the past. Meh. Don't tip if you don't want to, it's a free country. You cheap bastard...

Exactly. But that goes completely against the fact that the restaurant industry still holds that expectation at all times, and passes it along to the workers in the form of 1/2 minimum wage. THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

The restaurant isn't paying 1/2 of minimum wage only on days when patrons choose to tip. They're placing half the responsibility of paying their employees in the hands of people who don't have to fulfill that responsibility. That's why the entire process is fucked up.

Again, I'm not saying the waitstaff doesn't deserve tips. I'm saying they don't deserve their employers placing half the responsibility of their pay on their unreliable customers.

[cosmo20002]

hey some people just don't tip good. I'm a bartender and more times than not somebody will make the next tip make up for the shitty tip. I don't let tips control my quality of service. You're going to get the same good service next time you come in if you tipped me or not.

I don't 'get' tipping the bartender. Nothing personal, but if I go the bar to order a drink, it is made for me, then handed directly to me. End of interaction. And if I just get a beer--there's really no effort needed at all.

At least a waitress delivers the food, then comes back a few times to see if I need anything, refill drink, etc.

[vailpass]

THIS SHIT AGAIN

I find myself thinking that about a lot of the OP topics in the lounge. Have to step back and realize it's brand new to other posters even though you can tell them what they are going to say before they say it.
EG I knew before I looked that Mr. Pink's clip would be in here.

[Raiderhater]

hey some people just don't tip good. I'm a bartender and more times than not somebody will make the next tip make up for the shitty tip. I don't let tips control my quality of service. You're going to get the same good service next time you come in if you tipped me or not.


This. My current employer is fond of saying that when you die you will have made 18%.

That doesn't mean that situations like the one in the OP are not extremely frustrating but, you learn to deal with it and make your money else where.

[Frazod]

Curious.... how do you tip at a buffet?

There's a Japanese buffet place we go to occasionally where you get your own food but a waitress brings drinks to the table. I don't tip as much (15% as opposed to the customary $20), but I still tip.

[PunkinDrublic]

Tipping at Sonic? Isn't that a drive-thru fast food place?

Fast food or not, I appreciate a hot gal who wears rollerskates at her job.

[luv]

I don't 'get' tipping the bartender. Nothing personal, but if I go the bar to order a drink, it is made for me, then handed directly to me. End of interaction. And if I just get a beer--there's really no effort needed at all.

At least a waitress delivers the food, then comes back a few times to see if I need anything, refill drink, etc.

Bartenders tend to be in direct contact with their customers at all times. That's why most (the good ones anyway) are very outgoing and great at making conversation. Servers don't have to make conversation. They have to come by, be nice, tell you the specials, and take your order. The rest is just stopping in occasionally to see how you're doing. And, from what I've learned from friends, bartenders do make more than servers, but still not near minimum wage. I think they pay scale may be different for bars or clubs that don't serve food, but I'm not sure about that.

[Johnny Vegas]

McDonald's and other such fast food places are not service oriented in the same way that restaurants are. You go to the counter to order, get, and pay for your food. In most cases, you get your own refills or take your cup to the counter to have them do it. In these cases, you are doing the work other than the making the product being provided. In other words, Most fast food chains are basically production companies.

Anyway, I tend to agree with you. Nearly no one in the restaurant industry gets minimum wage. The hostesses get a percentage of the servers' tip outs, as does the bartender (because bartenders don't do a lot of the running to the kitchen and don't tend to be responsible for as many tables, or they are simply the service bar bartender (making drinks for servers, but not the actual bar). I think the highest paid employees in the restaurant industry, other than management, are the cooks, and they're not even the ones that have to deal with people. The whole system is screwed up if you ask me.

However, I think when one says it's "cultural", they are saying that because things are the way they are because that's the way they've always been. Paying extra for service (more when it's good service) is nothing new. If one restaurant started paying minimum wage, while others did not, the customers would begin being confused. Do I tip here? Do I not tip here? And when the restaurant that does raise the pay ends up having to also raise their prices to the customer, they will lose customers to the restaurants that are not paying their employees as much, even though the customer is likely paying the same price at those restaurants after food + tip. It's kind of an endless cycle.

whooooooa there. Bartenders don't do a lot of running around? Bartenders do a lot more than you think. Spend 9 hours behind one in a busy restaurant and that'll change your mind. I take food orders on top of beers and cocktails and I'm running back in forth from the kitchen making salads and bringing soups before the main course. IMO cooks don't need to be the highest paid because there ain't that many good ones to pay good in the first place. Most are drifters in the industry and its hard to find a cook thats been at the establishment for longer than a year.

[BWillie]

man back in my bartending days you have to get tips. Not everybody does, you just have to suck it up and in the long run you are gonna make way more than min wage even if you have a bunch of crappy tips. Usually at least 20/hr in straight cash when you count what you made for the night, it just sucked when it was a slow night then you don't make shit. But it is what it is and you just have to be mentally prepared for bad tips when it happens and you can't do anything about it. But bartending is easy, most people leave a buck for every drink and I was very appreciative of that. You have some regulars who tips way above average and that pretty much evens out the bad ones. So when I was bartending, I'd usually work from about 6pm-3am, that's 9 hours and a bad night would be $100 and a good night was anywhere from $200-300.

The main thing that sucks is that the bar I worked for made sure you claimed everything for taxes and at the end of the year you have to pay since the business only paid me $2.65 per hour and you'd owe about a grand in taxes every year. You just had to bankroll it and expect it.

A couple of bartenders and even waitresses I knew in college made 20-30$ an hour almost all in tips. It was unbelievable how much they made over ppl working in retail and other jobs college kids do.


I actually got kicked out of a bar one time because I didn't tip. They had a $2 miller lites, the girl just sat by this big metal ice chest full of them, I bought one, and for whatever reason I forgot to tip. I usually do tip for drinks, or sometime if I'm drinking many I'll do every other one, but when I came back for another #2 she refused to serve me because "I didn't tip her last time" in a really catty demeanor. That pissed me off, anytime ppl think they are entitled to shit that bothers me. I demanded to be served, she refused, I called her a bitch and walked off. Bouncer comes up to me, I tell him what happened thinking he would listen, but nope, he shoves me into a table and tells me to get out of "HIS" bar.

[Bump]

Curious.... how do you tip at a buffet?

you know I still leave 20% just because, although that's probably above avg for a buffet. At Jade mongolian BBQ buffet back in the day I'd tip Allen like 30% because he's like the most badass waiter ever and always asked for him, he was awesome and deserved every penny I gave him. plus he'd give me a box and tell me to fill up another plate and take it home and never charged me for drinks and just made you feel like an important customer.

[Rain Man]

I'm pondering starting a tip-free restaurant. You come in, you eat, you get a bill, you pay it. No under-the-table payments to waiters and waitresses, because I will pay them a living wage.

My biggest problem in this will be the fact that the government lets waiters and waitresses cheat on their taxes. I'd have to pay taxes on all of their compensation, which would be a competitive disadvantage. However, I would make up for it by the millions upon millions of customers I would get who are tired of the implied extortion of the tipping "culture".

[Bump]

A couple of bartenders and even waitresses I knew in college made 20-30$ an hour almost all in tips. It was unbelievable how much they made over ppl working in retail and other jobs college kids do.


I actually got kicked out of a bar one time because I didn't tip. They had a $2 miller lites, the girl just sat by this big metal ice chest full of them, I bought one, and for whatever reason I forgot to tip. I usually do tip for drinks, or sometime if I'm drinking many I'll do every other one, but when I came back for another #2 she refused to serve me because "I didn't tip her last time" in a really catty demeanor. That pissed me off, anytime ppl think they are entitled to shit that bothers me. I demanded to be served, she refused, I called her a bitch and walked off. Bouncer comes up to me, I tell him what happened thinking he would listen, but nope, he shoves me into a table and tells me to get out of "HIS" bar.


yeah I've seen places like that, that happened to a friend of mine in Lawrence because he didn't tip and the bartender wouldn't serve him. I can't remember which bar it was though...

but that's shitty business right there, they're screwing over the owner doing that, as an ex bartender you just can't let it get to you. Hell, one of my favorite regulars never tipped but he was a cool dude and I always knew I was gonna do ok even if some people don't tip.

[mr. tegu]

Tipping at Sonic? Isn't that a drive-thru fast food place?

It is but they bring you the food and take the money. That is it. I don't go there often but when I do I don't tip them because from what I understand they make a normal wage. Not the 1/2 minimum wage that other restaraunts pay their employees who then must rely on tips.

[luv]

A couple of bartenders and even waitresses I knew in college made 20-30$ an hour almost all in tips. It was unbelievable how much they made over ppl working in retail and other jobs college kids do.


I actually got kicked out of a bar one time because I didn't tip. They had a $2 miller lites, the girl just sat by this big metal ice chest full of them, I bought one, and for whatever reason I forgot to tip. I usually do tip for drinks, or sometime if I'm drinking many I'll do every other one, but when I came back for another #2 she refused to serve me because "I didn't tip her last time" in a really catty demeanor. That pissed me off, anytime ppl think they are entitled to shit that bothers me. I demanded to be served, she refused, I called her a bitch and walked off. Bouncer comes up to me, I tell him what happened thinking he would listen, but nope, he shoves me into a table and tells me to get out of "HIS" bar.
Guaranteed that the bitch thing is what got you kicked out of the bar. As for the bouncer, part of their job is to protect the staff. You're not staff.

[Raiderhater]

Bartenders tend to be in direct contact with their customers at all times. That's why most (the good ones anyway) are very outgoing and great at making conversation. Servers don't have to make conversation. They have to come by, be nice, tell you the specials, and take your order. The rest is just stopping in occasionally to see how you're doing. And, from what I've learned from friends, bartenders do make more than servers, but still not near minimum wage. I think they pay scale may be different for bars or clubs that don't serve food, but I'm not sure about that.


It varies from establishment to establishment. Some places pay bartenders a little to a lot more. Some pay the same server minimum wage (in KS and TX it is $2.13/hr). There is no set standard for paying bartenders.

[Molitoth]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.

Awesome, love it.

[Johnny Vegas]

I don't 'get' tipping the bartender. Nothing personal, but if I go the bar to order a drink, it is made for me, then handed directly to me. End of interaction. And if I just get a beer--there's really no effort needed at all.

At least a waitress delivers the food, then comes back a few times to see if I need anything, refill drink, etc.

Depends on the bartender. If she shows you her tits as she bends down you'll tip right? Now a guy has to use more of his brain if he's bartending. When it gets busy and the bar is packed I can't help but serve the ones that tipped me first because I feel guilty if I don't. Nothing personal if you didn't tip me and you have to wait to get your next drink. Its just I won't feel as guilty having you wait for yours. When I'm ready to serve you you'll get all of me till your satisfied, but again it'll be a wait.

[Raiderhater]

you know I still leave 20% just because, although that's probably above avg for a buffet. At Jade mongolian BBQ buffet back in the day I'd tip Allen like 30% because he's like the most badass waiter ever and always asked for him, he was awesome and deserved every penny I gave him. plus he'd give me a box and tell me to fill up another plate and take it home and never charged me for drinks and just made you feel like an important customer.


Ah yes, the old stealing from your employer to get a better tip tactic....

[mr. tegu]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.

http://www.sportscasualties.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/what-really-grinds-my-gears.png

[luv]

It varies from establishment to establishment. Some places pay bartenders a little to a lot more. Some pay the same server minimum wage (in KS and TX it is $2.13/hr). There is no set standard for paying bartenders.

My best friend tends bar at a national chain restaurant and also at a local club. At the restaurant, he gets paid a little over server's minimum wage plus 1% of the servers' tip outs. At the club (no food), he makes $9.00/hour plus tips. He doesn't work at the club unless they're short handed or have a band that draws a huge crowd coming in, but he makes a killing when he does.

[Rain Man]

you know I still leave 20% just because, although that's probably above avg for a buffet. At Jade mongolian BBQ buffet back in the day I'd tip Allen like 30% because he's like the most badass waiter ever and always asked for him, he was awesome and deserved every penny I gave him. plus he'd give me a box and tell me to fill up another plate and take it home and never charged me for drinks and just made you feel like an important customer.

That's the other reason why a no-tip restaurant would be good. Waiters and waitresses have an incentive to give away the company's sales to get bigger tips.

I was in a restaurant last week and the service was lousy. At one point I finally walked up to the drink area and asked for a refill of Mr. Pibb because I'd been out for ten or fifteen minutes. Then later the waitress came by, took my glass to refill it, and never brought it back. So after another ten or fifteen minutes I had to flag her down and ask her to bring my drink back. She told me she had forgotten about me. Thanks.

So when the bill came, she said, "I'm giving you the Mr. Pibb free since I had such problems keeping it on the table for you." Now, that's nice and I appreciate it. Presumably it's worth giving her a reasonable tip, right? But what just happened? Revenue that should have gone to the restaurant owner went away, and if I increase my tip it goes to her? That's not right. She's the one who screwed up, not the restaurant owner.

[KCUnited]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.


I actually got kicked out of a bar one time because I didn't tip.

Scottie Pippen?

[cosmo20002]

Bartenders tend to be in direct contact with their customers at all times. That's why most (the good ones anyway) are very outgoing and great at making conversation. Servers don't have to make conversation. They have to come by, be nice, tell you the specials, and take your order. The rest is just stopping in occasionally to see how you're doing. And, from what I've learned from friends, bartenders do make more than servers, but still not near minimum wage. I think they pay scale may be different for bars or clubs that don't serve food, but I'm not sure about that.

This is about 10 times more than bartenders do, at least from my perspective.

[Kyle DeLexus]

What a self entitled bitch. She worked at Chili's....it's not exactly an upscale classy joint yet she really expects everyone that comes in to tip whatever percentage we are expected to tip these days? Just like others have said, good tippers will average out the bad if you are good at what you do.

While 3.6% is pretty bad she still made $5 in probably an hour from one table and I'm betting she wasn't exactly the friendliest waitress in the world. She seems like a complete bitch and if she has that attitude when she's working it's a wonder she gets tips at all.

Plus she's a moron for complaining about work on facebook.(not even including her spit talk) I've never understood that. Keep it vague if you really feel the need to bitch.

[Raiderhater]

This is about 10 times more than bartenders do, at least from my perspective.


Are you actually sitting at the bar, or just walking up, getting your drink and walking away?

[luv]

This is about 10 times more than bartenders do, at least from my perspective.

IMO, it would be harder to have to make conversation. You have to be good at reading people. You also have to deal with the people that are drinking more and have to know when to cut them off. Generally, people who drink a lot don't sit on the restaurant side.

[Renegade]

I am ok with the idea of tipping if the waitstaff shares their tips. The waitstaff isn't the only one to service you during your meal. Does the waitstaff share thier tips with the bus "boys", the hostess stand, the chefs (oops I mean cooks). There are several people responsible for getting your meal to you, so tips should be shared accordingly. And yes I tip 20% of the food/beverage total, but I will NOT tip on the total including tax.

[vailpass]

It is but they bring you the food and take the money. That is it. I don't go there often but when I do I don't tip them because from what I understand they make a normal wage. Not the 1/2 minimum wage that other restaraunts pay their employees who then must rely on tips.

thanks. I don't believe I'd tip the burger kid for running my food out to me either.

[Bump]

That's the other reason why a no-tip restaurant would be good. Waiters and waitresses have an incentive to give away the company's sales to get bigger tips.

I was in a restaurant last week and the service was lousy. At one point I finally walked up to the drink area and asked for a refill of Mr. Pibb because I'd been out for ten or fifteen minutes. Then later the waitress came by, took my glass to refill it, and never brought it back. So after another ten or fifteen minutes I had to flag her down and ask her to bring my drink back. She told me she had forgotten about me. Thanks.

So when the bill came, she said, "I'm giving you the Mr. Pibb free since I had such problems keeping it on the table for you." Now, that's nice and I appreciate it. Presumably it's worth giving her a reasonable tip, right? But what just happened? Revenue that should have gone to the restaurant owner went away, and if I increase my tip it goes to her? That's not right. She's the one who screwed up, not the restaurant owner.

ya, but as a customer I digged it. The bar I worked at, the owner encouraged giving away a free shot or a free drink to regulars every once in a while just because people appreciated that and would come back to spend more money.

[DaKCMan AP]

This is about 10 times more than bartenders do, at least from my perspective.

Where do you go? At the bars I frequent the bartenders work their ass off. It's always slam packed with a very crowded bar. I'm sure they do very well in tips but they work hard.

[vailpass]

This is about 10 times more than bartenders do, at least from my perspective.

I'm sure that is true.

[BWillie]

Guaranteed that the bitch thing is what got you kicked out of the bar. As for the bouncer, part of their job is to protect the staff. You're not staff.

Definitely was the bitch thing, but what do they expect me to say to her? Thank you maam for refusing to provide me the service your employer expects you to complete.

[cosmo20002]

Depends on the bartender. If she shows you her tits as she bends down you'll tip right? Now a guy has to use more of his brain if he's bartending. When it gets busy and the bar is packed I can't help but serve the ones that tipped me first because I feel guilty if I don't. Nothing personal if you didn't tip me and you have to wait to get your next drink. Its just I won't feel as guilty having you wait for yours. When I'm ready to serve you you'll get all of me till your satisfied, but again it'll be a wait.

I suppose if I know I'll be going back to the bar a couple times I'd be more likely to tip just as a bribe so I won't be ignored when I come back. I always tip the waiter/waitress the usual 15-25%, but a buck or two for fetching a bottle and unscrewing the cap just seems hard to justify most of the time.

[Brock]

Definitely was the bitch thing, but what do they expect me to say to her? Thank you maam for refusing to provide me the service your employer expects you to complete.

You got what you deserved.

[Rain Man]

ya, but as a customer I digged it. The bar I worked at, the owner encouraged giving away a free shot or a free drink to regulars every once in a while just because people appreciated that and would come back to spend more money.

If it's a promotional thing by the owner, that's great. But when the waitress does it, it shouldn't increase her tip as a general policy. That's my conclusion after examining the ethics of the situation.

[Ultra Peanut]

TIP LIKE YOU MEAN IT

imo

[Raiderhater]

ya, but as a customer I digged it. The bar I worked at, the owner encouraged giving away a free shot or a free drink to regulars every once in a while just because people appreciated that and would come back to spend more money.


That is entirely different if the employer knows/encourages it. But most of the time that is not the case.

[luv]

I'm sure that is true.

Even if a bartender isn't busy with customers, they are typically making drinks for the entire restaurant. Most of the ones I know also take tables during non-peak hours.

[cosmo20002]

Are you actually sitting at the bar, or just walking up, getting your drink and walking away?

Getting drink and walking away. Not a Norm at Cheers thing.

[Bane]

I tip very well unless it's Hootie.

[Fish]

That's the other reason why a no-tip restaurant would be good. Waiters and waitresses have an incentive to give away the company's sales to get bigger tips.

I was in a restaurant last week and the service was lousy. At one point I finally walked up to the drink area and asked for a refill of Mr. Pibb because I'd been out for ten or fifteen minutes. Then later the waitress came by, took my glass to refill it, and never brought it back. So after another ten or fifteen minutes I had to flag her down and ask her to bring my drink back. She told me she had forgotten about me. Thanks.

So when the bill came, she said, "I'm giving you the Mr. Pibb free since I had such problems keeping it on the table for you." Now, that's nice and I appreciate it. Presumably it's worth giving her a reasonable tip, right? But what just happened? Revenue that should have gone to the restaurant owner went away, and if I increase my tip it goes to her? That's not right. She's the one who screwed up, not the restaurant owner.

Additional flaws in the system.

We've now established that tipping creates environments of theft, extortion, tax evasion, unreasonable expectations, guilt, removal from premises, and potential food contamination by means of revenge. Not to mention creating inequality among employees in regards to who should get tips and why. There's even a great deal of confusion by patrons on who and when to tip, and how much.

And this thread has yet to provide any real advantages to this evil scheme, other than occasional excess of tips for the employee, which leads directly back to tax evasion, etc.

Something must be done about this....

[luv]

That is entirely different if the employer knows/encourages it. But most of the time that is not the case.

Do most bartenders have a specific amount that they're allowed to comp for such purposes?

[cosmo20002]

IMO, it would be harder to have to make conversation. You have to be good at reading people. You also have to deal with the people that are drinking more and have to know when to cut them off. Generally, people who drink a lot don't sit on the restaurant side.

I suppose if I was doing the Cliff and Norm thing and just sitting there at the bar, but I'm not talking about that.

[Raiderhater]

Getting drink and walking away. Not a Norm at Cheers thing.

So then you really have no idea just how much they are working? You are basing it purely off of your 60 seconds of interaction with them?

[luv]

I suppose if I was doing the Cliff and Norm thing and just sitting there at the bar, but I'm not talking about that.

Ah, I gotcha. One rule of thumb, if you're a regular at a bar even just doing that, is that bartenders remember those who treat them well, and they treat their customers well. If it's the type of place that is slammed and have a tip jar, they probably don't have time to pay attention to whether you're even tipping or not (in which case, means they're probably working pretty hard).

[Raiderhater]

Do most bartenders have a specific amount that they're allowed to comp for such purposes?

Once again it depends on the establishment. Some places don't acknowledge that kind of promotional thinking at all. Some have limits per bartender per shift. Some have shift limits. The last place I worked it was whenever the owner felt like buying a drink. I had some discretion in the matter as I was also the bar manager, but I didn't push it very far. Mostly stuck with birthday drinks. Otherwise if I wanted to hook a customer up for whatever reason I did so (and still do where I am now) at my own cost. I would have a tab with my name on it that I paid at the end of the night.

[Johnny Vegas]

I suppose if I know I'll be going back to the bar a couple times I'd be more likely to tip just as a bribe so I won't be ignored when I come back. I always tip the waiter/waitress the usual 15-25%, but a buck or two for fetching a bottle and unscrewing the cap just seems hard to justify most of the time.

Usually you don't have to tip ever when its slow unless you make them work for it. When its slow everyone has my attention and you're getting prompt service. I feel I'm doing whats good for business and not me when its slow. Just once it gets busy and you want to get the bartenders attention from here on out throw a buck down if you got prompt service. Its also a reminder how good or bad they are at their job catering to people. Because catering to people is a trade some people don't have the patience for. Now in Vegas they wipe their ass with dollar bills so a $5 is their expectation. :D

[luv]

Once again it depends on the establishment. Some places don't acknowledge that kind of promotional thinking at all. Some have limits per bartender per shift. Some have shift limits. The last place I worked it was whenever the owner felt like buying a drink. I had some discretion in the matter as I was also the bar manager, but I didn't push it very far. Mostly stuck with birthday drinks. Otherwise if I wanted to hook a customer up for whatever reason I did so (and still do where I am now) at my own cost. I would have a tab with my name on it that I paid at the end of the night.

I think this is what my friend does when I go to the club. I don't dance much, so I tend to just sit at the bar and people watch. Other than cover and tip, I don't typically pay a dime (as long as I stick to mostly beer). I just have to sit near my friend's well. Sometimes, if it's a band drawing a huge crowd (which is typically the only times I go), I think he sometimes puts me on the band's comp tab. Either way, I get off cheap.

Of course, I first met him when he was bartending at a fairly local restaurant that had their own little beer tour. I bet I paid for maybe half the drinks in all actuality, but I tipped him as though I did. It was like an unspoken arrangement, and then we actually started hanging out outside of the bartender/regular setting.

[Johnny Vegas]

Additional flaws in the system.

We've now established that tipping creates environments of theft, extortion, tax evasion, unreasonable expectations, guilt, removal from premises, and potential food contamination by means of revenge. Not to mention creating inequality among employees in regards to who should get tips and why. There's even a great deal of confusion by patrons on who and when to tip, and how much.

And this thread has yet to provide any real advantages to this evil scheme, other than occasional excess of tips for the employee, which leads directly back to tax evasion, etc.

Something must be done about this....

makes people want to go out and get a job to have cash in their pocket at the end of the day. So 'incentive on getting an honest paying job' for $800 Alex. :D

[FlaChief58]

For me, the better the service, the better the tip, I start at 15%. It goes up or down depending how good or poor the service is. If my server sucks ass, I leave a note explaning the 1 penny tip hoping that person either gets their shit together or finds a job more suitable to their talents. I've only had to do that twice in my adult life.

[Fire Me Boy!]

For me, the better the service, the better the tip, I start at 15%. It goes up or down depending how good or poor the service is. If my server sucks ass, I leave a note explaning the 1 penny tip hoping that person either gets their shit together or finds a job more suitable to their talents. I've only had to do that twice in my adult life.

This is basically me. Start at 15 percent, up or down from there. But I'm more apt to talk to a manager for really bad service than leave a penny. I'm also apt to talk to a manager for really good service. It freaks out the server when I ask to speak to a manager, so I'm always quick to point out if it's good news.

[Fish]

makes people want to go out and get a job to have cash in their pocket at the end of the day. So 'incentive on getting an honest paying job' for $800 Alex. :D

I would classify an honest paying job as one that pays a wage at or above minimum wage and doesn't rely on the charity of unreliable patrons to meet minimum wage. The "cash in the pocket" is simply a short term advantage that makes it seem less like the shitty scheme that it is. A little bait and switch to give you a few dollars(hopefully) in your pocket each night to help you forget the few dollars you're being shorted on your actual paycheck.

[Bump]

If it's a promotional thing by the owner, that's great. But when the waitress does it, it shouldn't increase her tip as a general policy. That's my conclusion after examining the ethics of the situation.

I'd imagine that most places would fire an employee for giving away free stuff. I think that waiter at Mongolian BBQ had a stake in the company, I should have asked him. Not many waiters drive brand new bmw's.

But at a corporate place, that would never happen. If it did, someone's getting fired for sure. But ya, a waiter shouldn't give away free stuff if the owner isn't ok with it, that's for sure.

[luv]

I would classify an honest paying job as one that pays a wage at or above minimum wage and doesn't rely on the charity of unreliable patrons to meet minimum wage. The "cash in the pocket" is simply a short term advantage that makes it seem less like the shitty scheme that it is. A little bait and switch to give you a few dollars(hopefully) in your pocket each night to help you forget the few dollars you're being shorted on your actual paycheck.

If you're good at your job, then you typically do better than those making "honest" pay. If you're not good at your job, then that type of work probably isn't for you anyway.

[Johnny Vegas]

I would classify an honest paying job as one that pays a wage at or above minimum wage and doesn't rely on the charity of unreliable patrons to meet minimum wage. The "cash in the pocket" is simply a short term advantage that makes it seem less like the shitty scheme that it is. A little bait and switch to give you a few dollars(hopefully) in your pocket each night to help you forget the few dollars you're being shorted on your actual pay.

hey now not every establishment pays their servers under minimum wage. I get paid $10/hr + tips. My girlfriend gets paid $10/hr + tips + health and dental AND 401k working as a bartender at a brewery. We work our asses off so the extra cash is great to have at the end of the day. I had jobs where there were no tips involved and it sucked waiting till the first and middle of the month for money. Cash in your pocket at the end of the day is better than 2 weeks later.

[Rain Man]

This is basically me. Start at 15 percent, up or down from there. But I'm more apt to talk to a manager for really bad service than leave a penny. I'm also apt to talk to a manager for really good service. It freaks out the server when I ask to speak to a manager, so I'm always quick to point out if it's good news.


I just leave 20 percent unless something truly extraordinary happens. I essentially treat tipping like it doesn't exist and that I'm supposed to pay a 20 percent tax on every bill. It's my way of eliminating the tipping culture in my own mind.

Maybe once every couple of years I'll go down to 15 percent if the service is unconscionably bad, and even then only if I plan on never coming back. I figure the bad servers will just call you a cheapskate if you tip below that, so it's worth my ego to just pay the 20 percent tax. And then probably three or four times a year I'll go to 30 percent if the service is great and the waitress touches my arm and has that hairstyle that curls behind her ear.

[Johnny Vegas]

I do want to add that when you folks buy a bottle of wine at dinner don't tip on top of the bottle of wine. Tip over the difference your food came out to.

[Bump]

I do want to add that when you folks buy a bottle of wine at dinner don't tip on top of the bottle of wine. Tip over the difference your food came out to.

are you taxed on the bottle? just curious.

[Raiderhater]

This is basically me. Start at 15 percent, up or down from there. But I'm more apt to talk to a manager for really bad service than leave a penny. I'm also apt to talk to a manager for really good service. It freaks out the server when I ask to speak to a manager, so I'm always quick to point out if it's good news.


As a manager it freaks ME out when a server tells me a customer wants to speak with me.

Me: Really? What did you do this time?

Server: Nothing! I swear it! I gave them GREAT service.

Me: Then WTF do they want to talk to me for?

Server: I don't know, maybe to tell you how much they liked everything?

Me: Yeah, I'm sure that's it. Run that food sitting up there.

Me: Folks, how are we doing this evening?

Customer: We are doing great. We just wanted to tell you how great everything was tonight. The food was excellent and are server did an outstanding job.

Me: Well I am really happy to hear that. That is what we want to hear from all of our guests. Of course that isn't always the case. Usually there is some kind of fire that needs to be put out. Thank you for sharing this with me and have a wonderful rest of your evening.

Server: So what did they want?

Me: To tell me how good the food and service was.

Server: See, I TOLD you.

Me: There is food on the line, go run it.

[Johnny Vegas]

are you taxed on the bottle? just curious.

no sales tax in Montana. If thats what you're getting at.

[Fish]

hey now not every establishment pays their servers under minimum wage. I get paid $10/hr + tips. My girlfriend gets paid $10/hr + tips + health and dental AND 401k working as a bartender at a brewery. We work our asses off so the extra cash is great to have at the end of the day. I had jobs where there were no tips involved and it sucked waiting till the first and middle of the month for money. Cash in your pocket at the end of the day is better than 2 weeks later.

Again, I'm not dogging waitstaff. You guys bust your ass and deserve good pay. I just would prefer that people in that profession be paid without the expectation of the shitty public to provide 1/2 of it. Tips should be extra, not part of it. Restaurants get away with it, and they shouldn't.

I get paid once a month. Cash in the pocket each day is overrated..... :D

[BillSelfsTrophycase]

A couple of bartenders and even waitresses I knew in college made 20-30$ an hour almost all in tips. It was unbelievable how much they made over ppl working in retail and other jobs college kids do.


I actually got kicked out of a bar one time because I didn't tip. They had a $2 miller lites, the girl just sat by this big metal ice chest full of them, I bought one, and for whatever reason I forgot to tip. I usually do tip for drinks, or sometime if I'm drinking many I'll do every other one, but when I came back for another #2 she refused to serve me because "I didn't tip her last time" in a really catty demeanor. That pissed me off, anytime ppl think they are entitled to shit that bothers me. I demanded to be served, she refused, I called her a bitch and walked off. Bouncer comes up to me, I tell him what happened thinking he would listen, but nope, he shoves me into a table and tells me to get out of "HIS" bar.


You didn't get kicked out for not tipping, you got kicked out for calling the girl a bitch. When she refused to serve you, you should have asked to speak to management.

[Bearcat]

So when the bill came, she said, "I'm giving you the Mr. Pibb free since I had such problems keeping it on the table for you." Now, that's nice and I appreciate it. Presumably it's worth giving her a reasonable tip, right? But what just happened? Revenue that should have gone to the restaurant owner went away, and if I increase my tip it goes to her? That's not right. She's the one who screwed up, not the restaurant owner.

I had someone call me out on that once when I was serving tables in college... there was some kind of problem, so I didn't charge them for a couple of soft drinks. The guy asked about it and I told him not to worry about it due to the problem, and he asked "so, who's paying for them?" I told him I was (riiight), and he carried on, asking if it was literally coming out of my pocket (or something like that)... and I finally asked if he wanted me to put them on the check, which ended the conversation.

[Johnny Vegas]

Again, I'm not dogging waitstaff. You guys bust your ass and deserve good pay. I just would prefer that people in that profession be paid without the expectation of the shitty public to provide 1/2 of it. Tips should be extra, not part of it. Restaurants get away with it, and they shouldn't.

I get paid once a month. Cash in the pocket each day is overrated..... :D

I smell what you're stepping in. Cash in the pocket each day also has its disadvantages like easier to spend it because its burning a hole in your pocket and not sitting on some database ready to be printed out on the 15th. So yea you can say its overrated. :dom:

[Bump]

no sales tax in Montana. If thats what you're getting at.

don't they tax your sales though (income tax)? I thought that's how it worked. Or is it just what you claim?

[CrazyPhuD]

Ehhh, this is not a new setup, I’m pretty sure servers have been working like this for decades. It's a cultural thing at this point. I have run into people who don't believe in tipping. Your sentiment blames it on the employer, but it's an industry standard at this point.


Actually to be fair tipping is NOT an industry standard. It is a US cultural standard which is an entirely different thing. In other countries it is not a cultural expectation because they don't depend upon it for a wage. Also in certain places tipping is not just not expected, it is highly frowned upon. One of the more common places for that are small family run places in italy.

I'll never forget an article that ran a month or so ago bitching how mark zuckerberg didn't tip at a place in Italy. Too bad the moron author failed to understand that culturally it's different in different places. Outside the US the notion of tipping is very different.

The problem that we have in the US is that too many servers are taken advantage of and don't get paid shit. Then we are placed an expectation to tip regardless of if the service is good or not. Because if we don't tip then they don't get paid enough to live on.

If a service charge is expected then it shouldn't be a 'tip' it should be included in the price of a meal. If a server is great then they should be tipped above and beyond for excellent service. With the system we have now and everyone tipping the same regardless, the incentive to provide excellent service is less.

[Johnny Vegas]

don't they tax your sales though (income tax)? I thought that's how it worked. Or is it just what you claim?

I just claim my tips. From what I know I don't get taxed on the sales. Just my paycheck. Unless I'm missing something here or this is just the way Montana does it.

[Rain Man]

As a manager it freaks ME out when a server tells me a customer wants to speak with me.




The sad truth is that we should all have a rule about complimenting as often as we complain, not just in restaurants but in life. I've been trying to adhere to that rule for the last couple of years, but it's hard. We tend to expect competence, so it's easy to overlook people doing a good job, and we tend to be surprised by incompetence, so it's easy to complain when people are doing a bad job.

[CrazyPhuD]

I just claim my tips. From what I know I don't get taxed on the sales. Just my paycheck. Unless I'm missing something here or this is just the way Montana does it.

most states(if not all) don't do sales tax on service, only on 'product', hence tips are 'service'.

[Raiderhater]

The sad truth is that we should all have a rule about complimenting as often as we complain, not just in restaurants but in life. I've been trying to adhere to that rule for the last couple of years, but it's hard. We tend to expect competence, so it's easy to overlook people doing a good job, and we tend to be surprised by incompetence, so it's easy to complain when people are doing a bad job.


You know, you are absolutely correct. However the flip side to that is what you said, "We tend to expect competence". Should someone really be praised for doing the job they are paid to do? It is certainly nice to hear and does not hurt to do it at all but, should it be expected?

I don't know, I guess I was raised a little old school.

[luv]

You know, you are absolutely correct. However the flip side to that is what you said, "We tend to expect competence". Should someone really be praised for doing the job they are paid to do? It is certainly nice to hear and does not hurt to do it at all but, should it be expected?

I don't know, I guess I was raised a little old school.

That, plus, I would consider a really good tip as being a compliment. It doesn't make sense to leave a little tip and a note of "good job" along with it.

[tooge]

years ago, you could go into Arthur Bryants, say "beef and fry" and throw down a dollar bill. The guy would literally double the amount of meat and fries to a solid 4 lbs of food. Now there is a sign that states "we do not accept tips". Who killed the golden goose dammit?

[kaplin42]

What if I had the option? Like instead of someone kissing my ass and getting refills, what if I agreed to pick up my food from a counter and obtained refills myself. I would be more than happy with that. I just want someone to cook my food, and do the god damn dishes.

Sizzler FTW!

[mr. tegu]

With the system we have now and everyone tipping the same regardless, the incentive to provide excellent service is less.

I don't think everyone tips the same regardless though. Just in this thread multiple people have said they start at 15% and move up with good service. I know that I do the same. IMO the incentive is there to provide good service which is why the system is in place in the first place. If all the servers receive the same wage regardless, as in places like where you described, then they really don't have extra motivation beyond just keeping there job. In either system if you are lousy, you get fired anyways, but with tips if you are good you can potentially benefit from it. That is how I see it anyways.

[Raiderhater]

That, plus, I would consider a really good tip as being a compliment. It doesn't make sense to leave a little tip and a note of "good job" along with it.

Yeah, because that little note helps pay my bills...

Do not get me wrong, it is appreciated to hear that I have performed my job the way that I should. But the system being what it is, I'd much rather have the praise in the form of $ than in words.

[Raiderhater]

I don't think everyone tips the same regardless though. Just in this thread multiple people have said they start at 15% and move up with good service. I know that I do the same. IMO the incentive is there to provide good service which is why the system is in place in the first place. If all the servers receive the same wage regardless, as in places like where you described, then they really don't have extra motivation beyond just keeping there job. In either system if you are lousy, you get fired anyways, but with tips if you are good you can potentially benefit from it. That is how I see it anyways.


Which should be motivation enough.

Again, that old school raising coming out...

[Rain Man]

You know, you are absolutely correct. However the flip side to that is what you said, "We tend to expect competence". Should someone really be praised for doing the job they are paid to do? It is certainly nice to hear and does not hurt to do it at all but, should it be expected?

I don't know, I guess I was raised a little old school.


Yeah, and that's part of my challenge of achieving a 1:1 compliment:complaint ratio. If someone gives me a compliment, I generally can tell if it's sincere or not, and I actually dislike getting insincere compliments. I'd rather not get a compliment if it's insincere, so by the same logic I don't like giving a compliment that's insincere because I think it's actually insulting. Or it not insulting, maybe condescending or patronizing.

Because of that, I tend to not compliment someone if I think they're doing a good job, but it's nothing beyond what I'd expect from any competent person. And that makes it harder for compliments to keep up with complaints.

I should note that I'm not a complaint machine or anything, so it's not like we're measuring these things in the thousands. I just think it's a good goal to have a 1:1 ratio so I don't turn into a bitter old complaining guy.

[Fire Me Boy!]

As a manager it freaks ME out when a server tells me a customer wants to speak with me.

Me: Really? What did you do this time?

Server: Nothing! I swear it! I gave them GREAT service.

Me: Then WTF do they want to talk to me for?

Server: I don't know, maybe to tell you how much they liked everything?

Me: Yeah, I'm sure that's it. Run that food sitting up there.

Me: Folks, how are we doing this evening?

Customer: We are doing great. We just wanted to tell you how great everything was tonight. The food was excellent and are server did an outstanding job.

Me: Well I am really happy to hear that. That is what we want to hear from all of our guests. Of course that isn't always the case. Usually there is some kind of fire that needs to be put out. Thank you for sharing this with me and have a wonderful rest of your evening.

Server: So what did they want?

Me: To tell me how good the food and service was.

Server: See, I TOLD you.

Me: There is food on the line, go run it.

Haha. That's about how I imagined it. I typically tell them I know they're used to hearing negative things, so when someone goes above and beyond I want to be sure to brag on them.

I have no idea if it helps them get a better shift or get less crap from managers or whatever else crap waiters and waitresses have to deal with, but I figure it's never a bad thing to dole out the feel-goods when someone does a really good job.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Yeah, and that's part of my challenge of achieving a 1:1 compliment:complaint ratio. If someone gives me a compliment, I generally can tell if it's sincere or not, and I actually dislike getting insincere compliments. I'd rather not get a compliment if it's insincere, so by the same logic I don't like giving a compliment that's insincere because I think it's actually insulting. Or it not insulting, maybe condescending or patronizing.

Because of that, I tend to not compliment someone if I think they're doing a good job, but it's nothing beyond what I'd expect from any competent person. And that makes it harder for compliments to keep up with complaints.

I should note that I'm not a complaint machine or anything, so it's not like we're measuring these things in the thousands. I just think it's a good goal to have a 1:1 ratio so I don't turn into a bitter old complaining guy.

You've got really great eyes, Rain Man. And your hair is like spun silk.

[mr. tegu]

Which should be motivation enough.

Again, that old school raising coming out...

You are right. But for instances when people have issues and things they are dealing with outside of work, I am speaking from an outsiders perspective, I would imagine knowing that you can get more money if you don't let your stressors come out in your service would be a good way to prevent life circumstances from affecting performance. Which is obviously good for the company as well. I guess I see the tipping system as a way for companies to keep the servers in check.

[Rain Man]

You've got really great eyes, Rain Man. And your hair is like spun silk.

Sincere compliments like this work great! And now you can go verbally defecate on the next two people you see, and you'll still be at breakeven.

[MoreLemonPledge]

I'm really interested in how you all tip your casino dealers.

[Raiderhater]

Yeah, and that's part of my challenge of achieving a 1:1 compliment:complaint ratio. If someone gives me a compliment, I generally can tell if it's sincere or not, and I actually dislike getting insincere compliments. I'd rather not get a compliment if it's insincere, so by the same logic I don't like giving a compliment that's insincere because I think it's actually insulting. Or it not insulting, maybe condescending or patronizing.

Because of that, I tend to not compliment someone if I think they're doing a good job, but it's nothing beyond what I'd expect from any competent person. And that makes it harder for compliments to keep up with complaints.

I should note that I'm not a complaint machine or anything, so it's not like we're measuring these things in the thousands. I just think it's a good goal to have a 1:1 ratio so I don't turn into a bitter old complaining guy.


And that is a great policy to have. Like i said there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving a compliment. It just seems as though in today's society a lot of people have come to expect it.

Co-worker: I don't think the boss likes me.

Me: Why is that?

Co-worker: He/she never tells me I'm doing a good job.

Me: Does he/she bitch at you about your job?

Co-worker: No.

Me: Then WTF is the problem? When they start bitching at you, then you have an issue.

[Raiderhater]

Haha. That's about how I imagined it. I typically tell them I know they're used to hearing negative things, so when someone goes above and beyond I want to be sure to brag on them.

I have no idea if it helps them get a better shift or get less crap from managers or whatever else crap waiters and waitresses have to deal with, but I figure it's never a bad thing to dole out the feel-goods when someone does a really good job.


Really, it all depends on the server. There have been multiple times where someone is complimenting a member of the staff and it takes everything I have to say, "Really? I normally get complaints on this person. In fact, you are the first to say anything positive."

Now obviously the better your compliment/complaint ratio, the better the schedule and section tends to be. But it really just depends on wether or not it is an isolated incident, which many times it is.

[luv]

Sincere compliments like this work great! And now you can go verbally defecate on the next two people you see, and you'll still be at breakeven.

NOT IT!

[Johnny Vegas]

I'm really interested in how you all tip your casino dealers.

10% if I hit the jackpot which would be an $80 tip. I won $8,000 in Vegas and tipped the lady $200. I felt that was more than enough to count out 80 $100 bills.

[kaplin42]

What a self entitled bitch. She worked at Chili's....it's not exactly an upscale classy joint yet she really expects everyone that comes in to tip whatever percentage we are expected to tip these days? Just like others have said, good tippers will average out the bad if you are good at what you do.

While 3.6% is pretty bad she still made $5 in probably an hour from one table and I'm betting she wasn't exactly the friendliest waitress in the world. She seems like a complete bitch and if she has that attitude when she's working it's a wonder she gets tips at all.

Plus she's a moron for complaining about work on facebook.(not even including her spit talk) I've never understood that. Keep it vague if you really feel the need to bitch.

Since when does upscale or glorified coffee shop have to do with how much you tip.

Standard is 15%, good service is closer to 20%, shitty service anywhere from a nice fuck you note on the bill to 10%.

Entitled is expecting a 20% tip. Getting a $5 tip on a $100 check is basicly giving the bird to the server, unless of course it was shitty service.

Totally agree on the FB post though, all kinds of F'ing stupid.

[BWillie]

I'm really interested in how you all tip your casino dealers.

This is what I find the oddest out of them all. You are gambling. That means you know, going into it, it's a losing proposition. You will not win any money if you play long enough, why on Earth should you have to tip? Why aren't they paying an acceptable wage to their employees that a tip is expected? You are virtually giving money away to them, if anything, they should tip you or give you something back, not you give something to the dealer. With that said, I do it anyway because I easily succumb to social pressures, but in the back of my head I'm bitching about it.

[KCUnited]

I'm really interested in how you all tip your casino dealers.

Pass line bet.

[Bump]

I just claim my tips. From what I know I don't get taxed on the sales. Just my paycheck. Unless I'm missing something here or this is just the way Montana does it.

I don't know, I had a gf once that was a waitress and she said they get taxed 10% of their total sales no matter what. But she was a stupid bitch, so she probably didn't know what she was talking about.

[scho63]

I've always been an over tipper and unless the service is horrible, I try to nail 20%. There are two types of tippers: those who tip an exact amount like $9 on $48.35 and people like me who always make the total the even amount; $9.65 tip on $48.35 to equal $58. It makes it easier for me each month to reconcile my cc and savings.

I tipped 10% on a buffet a week or so ago and one of the people I was with blew their cool saying I was "ruining" the market and to tip only around $2-3. I just can't be that stingy

I did however walk out without leaving a tip three months ago with 7 other people in a bar/restaurant when it took 50 minutes to order two rounds of drinks and they never took our food order after keep telling us, "I'll be right back to take your order". we were all at the bar no less which makes it easier. Instead they text, BS'ed with a few of their friends at the bar and left us hanging high and dry. We are a little older and tip VERY well. F*ck 'em and next time maybe they will learn how to serve people.

[MoreLemonPledge]

This is what I find the oddest out of them all. You are gambling. That means you know, going into it, it's a losing proposition. You will not win any money if you play long enough, why on Earth should you have to tip? Why aren't they paying an acceptable wage to their employees that a tip is expected? You are virtually giving money away to them, if anything, they should tip you or give you something back, not you give something to the dealer. With that said, I do it anyway because I easily succumb to social pressures, but in the back of my head I'm bitching about it.

View it as entertainment. A good, entertaining, lively dealer is performing a service beyond what a machine can give you. If they're emotionless and silent, don't tip them.

Pass line bet.

Save it for the odds. Your dealers will love you more.

[Stewie]

I used to tip on the price of the meal, excluding taxes. I read recently that it's normal to tip including the tax part of the bill. Which is correct?

[Fire Me Boy!]

I used to tip on the price of the meal, excluding taxes. I read recently that it's normal to tip including the tax part of the bill. Which is correct?

I always thought it was with tax, but the receipts that give you tip suggestions are always based on meal minus tax.

[Bump]

I'm really interested in how you all tip your casino dealers.

I don't play anything other than texas holdem at casinos. I'll tip a good dealer somewhere around 5% a pot, if it's a really huge pot I'll throw a 5 or 10 at them. But I don't even know what's expected, it seems most throw a dollar no matter what the pot.

But there are some really bad dealers out there and when we all have to point things out, or they misdeal a lot then no tip!

[Bugeater]

This is what I find the oddest out of them all. You are gambling. That means you know, going into it, it's a losing proposition. You will not win any money if you play long enough, why on Earth should you have to tip? Why aren't they paying an acceptable wage to their employees that a tip is expected? You are virtually giving money away to them, if anything, they should tip you or give you something back, not you give something to the dealer. With that said, I do it anyway because I easily succumb to social pressures, but in the back of my head I'm bitching about it.
I don't gamble so I'm not affected by this, but I agree completely. It's fucking absurd.

[stevieray]

This is what I find the oddest out of them all. You are gambling. That means you know, going into it, it's a losing proposition. You will not win any money if you play long enough, why on Earth should you have to tip? Why aren't they paying an acceptable wage to their employees that a tip is expected? You are virtually giving money away to them, if anything, they should tip you or give you something back, not you give something to the dealer. With that said, I do it anyway because I easily succumb to social pressures, but in the back of my head I'm bitching about it.

" I go into an establishment knowing I'm gonna lose, therefore they should tip me for being a loser"


" I'm going into an establishment paying someone to make my food, deliver it to me, keep my drinks topped off, clean up my dishes...basically wait on me hand and foot, and then they expect monetary recognition for good service?"


cheap.cheap.cheap.

[RJ]

I'm not posting in this thread until someone tips me.

[kaplin42]

I'm not posting in this thread until someone tips me.

Don't piss into the wind.

[Pitt Gorilla]

20% is my minimum for acceptable service. I suppose brutal service would cause me to tip less, but that doesn't happen very often.

[Johnny Vegas]

I'm not posting in this thread until someone tips me.

never pet a burning dog

[Easy 6]

Be a picky stiff, you can bet they'll see you coming the next time.

[CrazyPhuD]

Ok Ok since this thread is starting to derail some, let's get it back on track by asking what people's opinion of the generally accepted amount to tip strippers is?

[Raiderhater]

I used to tip on the price of the meal, excluding taxes. I read recently that it's normal to tip including the tax part of the bill. Which is correct?


I work in the industry and I have no idea what is "correct". The only thing I can tell you is that wether as a bartender/server or a customer, I have always looked at the total, which includes tax. I really do not know what is right but, it could help bring into perspective some tips that I thought were just a bit short of what they should have been.

[007]

15% standard
18% if the waiter was able to take care of me without me even realizing it. The invisible waiter that never bugs you but never lets you glass become empty.
20% if you were stellar

But one thing that really pisses me off is the people that say we need to tip more because of inflation. BS Newsflash, the tips are already up because of inflation. Use your brain.

I also agree with Carlotta. Tip jars are showing up everywhere and it is damn ridiculous.

[007]

I've always been an over tipper and unless the service is horrible, I try to nail 20%. There are two types of tippers: those who tip an exact amount like $9 on $48.35 and people like me who always make the total the even amount; $9.65 tip on $48.35 to equal $58. It makes it easier for me each month to reconcile my cc and savings.

I tipped 10% on a buffet a week or so ago and one of the people I was with blew their cool saying I was "ruining" the market and to tip only around $2-3. I just can't be that stingy

I did however walk out without leaving a tip three months ago with 7 other people in a bar/restaurant when it took 50 minutes to order two rounds of drinks and they never took our food order after keep telling us, "I'll be right back to take your order". we were all at the bar no less which makes it easier. Instead they text, BS'ed with a few of their friends at the bar and left us hanging high and dry. We are a little older and tip VERY well. F*ck 'em and next time maybe they will learn how to serve people.

Buffets drive me nuts. They don't bring you food. They just seat you and bring you your drinks. Hell, some buffets don't even do that. I never give more than 15% at a buffet, and sometimes I go much less if all they did was seat me.

[|Zach|]

KC Fish is really wanting prices to go up when he goes out to eat.

[|Zach|]

I used to tip on the price of the meal, excluding taxes. I read recently that it's normal to tip including the tax part of the bill. Which is correct?

Price w\ tax.

[|Zach|]

I miss my Country Club serving bartending days sometimes. Those were really fun profitable times.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Exactly. But that goes completely against the fact that the restaurant industry still holds that expectation at all times, and passes it along to the workers in the form of 1/2 minimum wage. THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

The restaurant isn't paying 1/2 of minimum wage only on days when patrons choose to tip. They're placing half the responsibility of paying their employees in the hands of people who don't have to fulfill that responsibility. That's why the entire process is ****ed up.

Again, I'm not saying the waitstaff doesn't deserve tips. I'm saying they don't deserve their employers placing half the responsibility of their pay on their unreliable customers.

Incorrect. The restaurant is responsible for you making minimum wage. At the end of the night when you cash out, your tips plus 2.65\hr have to equal minimum wage. Back when I waited tables at Pizza Hut (circa 1988 or so) minimum wage was 3.35\hr and waiter wage was 2.25\hr IIRC, so it was pretty easy to make minimum wage. I never declared all my tips, just enough to where I'd make minimum wage so my boss wouldn't get up my ass. But they HAVE to pay you minimum wage. Admittedly, this is why they wanted you to do well on tips...But it's not like the franchise was rolling in cash at my expense. Everybody wins. The restaurant didn't have to pay more out of their pockets, I made more than minimum wage and the customer got a good meal at a very affordable price. Nothing evil about that.

[WhiteWhale]

If you tip 5 dollars on a 138 dollar ticket, you are a piece of shit and deserve to have your food spat in.

Chilli's pays their servers the minimum, which is under 3 dollars per hour. MOST chains like this (Applebees and so forth) are the same way.

I've never worked in the food industry and hopefully never will, because there are few lines of work that have such a terrible track record with their employees.

[WhiteWhale]

Incorrect. The restaurant is responsible for you making minimum wage. At the end of the night when you cash out, your tips plus 2.65\hr have to equal minimum wage. Back when I waited tables at Pizza Hut (circa 1988 or so) minimum wage was 3.35\hr and waiter wage was 2.25\hr IIRC, so it was pretty easy to make minimum wage. I never declared all my tips, just enough to where I'd make minimum wage so my boss wouldn't get up my ass. But they HAVE to pay you minimum wage. Admittedly, this is why they wanted you to do well on tips...But it's not like the franchise was rolling in cash at my expense. Everybody wins. The restaurant didn't have to pay more out of their pockets, I made more than minimum wage and the customer got a good meal at a very affordable price. Nothing evil about that.

Most people aren't aware that the establishment is liable to pay any difference. You think they TELL their employees this?

They don't. It's up to the employee to know, because these establishments are out to fuck every employee they have right up the behind.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Most people aren't aware that the establishment is liable to pay any difference. You think they TELL their employees this?

They don't. It's up to the employee to know, because these establishments are out to **** every employee they have right up the behind.

Um, the employee has to know. They are responsible to report their tips, and if they don't get minimum wage they know the employer has to make that up. If they don't know, they are just stupid. For which there is no cure. But sorry, it's not the evil restaurant getting one over on the server.

I never felt like a victim when I worked for tips.

[Carlota69]

I don't 'get' tipping the bartender. Nothing personal, but if I go the bar to order a drink, it is made for me, then handed directly to me. End of interaction. And if I just get a beer--there's really no effort needed at all.

At least a waitress delivers the food, then comes back a few times to see if I need anything, refill drink, etc.

Here's my thought on tipping--If its something I can do for myself at home but I am choosing to go out and have someone do it for me, then I believe a tip is deserved. Bartenders provide a service that you can do at home, but you are having them do it for you and they are probably able to do it better in most cases. Wait service? Same thing. I can cook and get my own food at home, but I am choosing to go out and have them do it for me. I think tipping is deserved. Valet? I can park in self parking but I am choosing to use their service. Thats how I base tipping and I tip very well...

[Saulbadguy]

15% standard
18% if the waiter was able to take care of me without me even realizing it. The invisible waiter that never bugs you but never lets you glass become empty.
20% if you were stellar

But one thing that really pisses me off is the people that say we need to tip more because of inflation. BS Newsflash, the tips are already up because of inflation. Use your brain.

I also agree with Carlotta. Tip jars are showing up everywhere and it is damn ridiculous.

Mexican/Chinese. They are the best servers.

[Chiefnj2]

The biggest moral dilemma I have is when service is bad because the place is way understaffed. You get poor service yet you feel like you should tip well because the server is trying their best, they are just hustling twice as many tables as they should.

[kysirsoze]

The people bitching about tipping crack me up. Tipping empowers the customer. If there wasn't any tipping, there would just be a service charge to cover the pay of the server. This would largely remove the motivation of the server to provide excellent service to every table. You'd receive exactly the level of service it took to not endager the server's job. That's not very good.

Just fucking tip well when the service is good and don't when it isn't. Otherwise make your own fucking food.

[Chiefnj2]

The people bitching about tipping crack me up. Tipping empowers the customer. If there wasn't any tipping, there would just be a service charge to cover the pay of the server.
.

Legally the restaurant can't use a service charge as a tip credit to offset the minimum wage.

[Saulbadguy]

Honestly I wish they'd just raise the price of the food to cover the costs of paying staff a fair wage.

[Carlota69]

I've always been an over tipper and unless the service is horrible, I try to nail 20%. There are two types of tippers: those who tip an exact amount like $9 on $48.35 and people like me who always make the total the even amount; $9.65 tip on $48.35 to equal $58. It makes it easier for me each month to reconcile my cc and savings.

I tipped 10% on a buffet a week or so ago and one of the people I was with blew their cool saying I was "ruining" the market and to tip only around $2-3. I just can't be that stingy

I did however walk out without leaving a tip three months ago with 7 other people in a bar/restaurant when it took 50 minutes to order two rounds of drinks and they never took our food order after keep telling us, "I'll be right back to take your order". we were all at the bar no less which makes it easier. Instead they text, BS'ed with a few of their friends at the bar and left us hanging high and dry. We are a little older and tip VERY well. F*ck 'em and next time maybe they will learn how to serve people.

I do the same basically. If my bill is $45.00 I times that by 20% everytime ($9 tip), but if they provide me shitty service, I times it by 10%, and if they really piss me off, NOTHING. 98% of the time I times my bill by 20% and that what they get. Its easier for me math wise...

[kysirsoze]

Legally the restaurant can't use a service charge as a tip credit to offset the minimum wage.

I live in CA. Servers make regular minimum wage here. There's still tipping involved. If servers made minimum wage, you'd receive McDonald's level service at every restaurant.

Also, it's funny that voluntary tips can legally relieve an employer of paying minimum wage, but a service charge that's essentially the same, albeit more reliable, doesn't.

[Predarat]

I tip decently I think, I tip about 15-20% for 'just doing their job' bare minimum stuff. If they have a bad attitude I may take some of that off. I rarely if ever stiff a server, we all have bad days. Also I try to tip extra if I am with a group and they stay after hours or if we are there a long time watching a game or something. That kind of thing takes up a table and hurts the severs turn over, thus less people there to tip them.

[kysirsoze]

Honestly I wish they'd just raise the price of the food to cover the costs of paying staff a fair wage.

As I said, you would consistently see MUCH poorer service. Hope you have at least an extra 30-40 minutes per restaurant visit. Get ready to wait on that side of ranch, too.

[Fire Me Boy!]

The people bitching about tipping crack me up. Tipping empowers the customer. If there wasn't any tipping, there would just be a service charge to cover the pay of the server. This would largely remove the motivation of the server to provide excellent service to every table. You'd receive exactly the level of service it took to not endager the server's job. That's not very good.

Just ****ing tip well when the service is good and don't when it isn't. Otherwise make your own ****ing food.

As I said, you would consistently see MUCH poorer service. Hope you have at least an extra 30-40 minutes per restaurant visit. Get ready to wait on that side of ranch, too.



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html

Michael Lynn, an associate professor of consumer behavior and marketing at Cornell's School of Hotel Administration, has conducted dozens of studies of tipping and has concluded that consumers' assessments of the quality of service correlate weakly to the amount they tip.

Rather, customers are likely to tip more in response to servers touching them lightly and crouching next to the table to make conversation than to how often their water glass is refilled - in other words, customers tip more when they like the server, not when the service is good. (Mr. Lynn's studies also indicate that male customers increase their tips for female servers while female customers increase their tips for male servers.)

...

Indeed, there appears to be little connection between tipping and good service. The best service in the Western world is at the Michelin three-star restaurants of Europe, where a service charge replaces tipping. As a customer, it's certainly pleasant to dine in France, where the menu prices are "service compris," representing actual totals, including the price of food, taxes and service.

[kysirsoze]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html

Michelin three-star restaurants? LOL. So you're telling me Michelin three-star restaurants have great service? I appreciate your point, but you're talking about career servers at restaurants that will fire you if you don't constantly provide top flight service. Your local Chili's is a completely different animal.

I worked in restaurants for years. When a server has a large party that is going to have the gratuity added automatically, they let things slide CONSTANTLY. Even if they aren't jerks, and do a decent job, they are still MUCH less likely to go above and beyond.

Also, in my experience, servers that crouch at tables, lightly touch customers, and make friendly conversation, generally like their job and take more pride in doing it well. It's not surprising at all that they consistently get tipped more.

[Saulbadguy]

As I said, you would consistently see MUCH poorer service. Hope you have at least an extra 30-40 minutes per restaurant visit. Get ready to wait on that side of ranch, too.

I'm not sure about that. I think if they were offered a fair wage, they might put forth more effort because the jobs would suddenly become more competitive.

It's not a solution to any problem whatsoever, because raising prices would just result in less business.

[kysirsoze]

I'm not sure about that. I think if they were offered a fair wage, they might put forth more effort because the jobs would suddenly become more competitive.

It's not a solution to any problem whatsoever, because raising prices would just result in less business.

Higher wages would also have a negative effect on service because restaurants would try harder to cut down on hours, leaving servers with larger sections. Overextended servers is more often the cause of bad service than the servers themselves being shitty at their jobs or lazy.

[Graystoke]

I live in a fairly small town, so I tip better at bars/pubs then I do at Restaurants.
It’s a local thing. The Bartenders are people in my community I know. I want them to make a decent living. They always know what I want, they run my tabs and I always tip in cash so they don’t have to claim.
I guarantee I will get served on a busy night faster then people that they don’t know for the simple reason, because I T.I.P (To Insure Personal Service)

[Saulbadguy]

Higher wages would also have a negative effect on service because restaurants would try harder to cut down on hours, leaving servers with larger sections. Overextended servers is more often the cause of bad service than the servers themselves being shitty at their jobs or lazy.

Well, there would be less overall business because prices would be higher. It would even itself out eventually.

[kysirsoze]

Well, there would be less overall business because prices would be higher. It would even itself out eventually.

And fewer restaurants so people could just stay home and make their own damn food.

[Bowser]

And fewer restaurants so people could just stay home and make their own damn food.

Microwave food FTW!

[Fish]

As I said, you would consistently see MUCH poorer service. Hope you have at least an extra 30-40 minutes per restaurant visit. Get ready to wait on that side of ranch, too.

LMAO... yeah right... Like tips are the only motivation for waitstaff to do their jobs. Without that, they'd likely all turn to crime and prostitution... Chaos in the streets..

[beach tribe]

I have tended bar, and been a server for extra income for many years, and I don't want to sound racist, but even black bartenders and servers will tell you that 99% of all black people are complete garbage tippers. I couldn't tell you why but it is widely known in the industry, and some people even go so far as to not go out of their way(not me!) to provide excellent service because they know they are going to be stiffed. I would never do this, but have often been pissed that i busted my ass
To
Insure
Prompt
Service
and then got stiffed.

[kaplin42]

I'm not sure about that. I think if they were offered a fair wage, they might put forth more effort because the jobs would suddenly become more competitive.

It's not a solution to any problem whatsoever, because raising prices would just result in less business.



Chances are, servers/bartenders would revolt. Unless the company plans on paying $15-$20/hour, there is no-way that getting a buck or two over minimum wage would fly for a lot of these people.

When I bartended and served a typical slow night was $60, but that was for 3 hours of work. Good nights were $100+ and were like 5 or 6 hours. The jobs wouldn't be more competitive because nobody would want to do that crap. Again, dealing with the general public on that level and not putting a secret ingredient in everything you touch warrants a Nobel prize let alone a few bucks more than minimum.

[stevieray]

15% standard
18% if the waiter was able to take care of me without me even realizing it. The invisible waiter that never bugs you but never lets you glass become empty.
20% if you were stellar




...do you wear your Drill Sergeant hat at the table?

[beach tribe]

Just like in the Reservoir Dogs clip....

Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not? The only answer is that the restaurant world has a system that works in their advantage, and they've convinced the workers that "It's a cultural thing", so they should expect it. Therefore the restaurant feels justified in paying well below minimum wage and putting the responsibility on the waitstaff to make up the rest by putting expectations on an asshole population of patrons.

When you go to McDonald's do they come to your table and take your order?
Do they ask you if you need a refill, and make sure that you don't run out of your beverage?
Do they ask you if you need any condiments, and then bring them to your table?
etc. etc?
No. That's why you don't tip them, and why you do(or don't if you're a dirt bag) at an actual restaurant.
You tip according to the service you receive. Comparing it to eating at McDonald's is just a tight ass' way of justifying being a tight ass.

[luv]

LMAO... yeah right... Like tips are the only motivation for waitstaff to do their jobs. Without that, they'd likely all turn to crime and prostitution... Chaos in the streets..

There would be far less wait staff and more production workers. Give someone a quota, and they will do just enough to get by. Take away someone's tips, and the service will go down. Not in all cases. There are always those that go above and beyond in any line of work. Speaking in generalities.

[kaplin42]

LMAO... yeah right... Like tips are the only motivation for waitstaff to do their jobs. Without that, they'd likely all turn to crime and prostitution... Chaos in the streets..

It's the only reason to make the extra effort over what it takes to not get fired.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you have never been on that side of the coin. If I'm correct, then my bet is you have no idea why someone who has/does do that type of work might be pissed about why $5 tip on a $105 check.

And when I left, the industry, we were getting taxed on 8% of total sales at least, and if it was a credit card, you got taxed for the whole tip if it was above the standard 8% that was put on the card, because it was all entered in a computer. With the above example, which was more than likely paid by a credit card, that tip didn't even cover the tax that the server had to pay on that check. Nice to have to pay to work right?

[Fish]

The employer builds into the price of the product (such as a dinner) a minimum wage for his employees. He expects to pay 8 dollars an hour. However if you tip a dollar then suddenly he doesn't have to pay that dollar. Do you expect him to pass on those savings to you? Absolutely not! He will pocket that dollar as extra profit.

There is no evidence that tipping reduces prices (since the employer needs to expect to pay a minimum wage anyways), there is no evidence that tipping is required as a service metric (otherwise the Customer Service reps at your local retails store would perform appallingly), and there is no explanation why tipping is seen to be required for some customer service positions and not others.

[beach tribe]

I think tipping should be outlawed. Instead of tipping, the company should pay them an adequate wage in exchange for their services and hike up the cost of food and drink. When I go order a drink at a bar, I'm expected to tip. When I get a taxi, I'm expected to tip. When someone gives me directions at a concierge I'm expected to tip. When someone carries my bags 2 feet to a sidewalk, I'm expected to tip. When I win a small and already heavily raked pot favoring the casino in poker or even worse blackjack I'm expected to tip. Tipping, IMO, is getting money for doing what you are supposed to be doing. I don't think it's fair that restaurant employees make like $3 an hour. Pay them $10 an hour, whatever it takes so that tipping is outlawed. Most ppl, when they do their job well, do not expect a tip.

It's set up that way to the benefit of the customer.
Establishments are able to keep prices low, and the customer has the option of not tipping if he/she receives crap service.
If wait staff did not have a system in place
To
Insure
Prompt
Service
There would be more crap servers out there who could care less about the customer because they would be getting their money either way.

[luv]

The employer builds into the price of the product (such as a dinner) a minimum wage for his employees. He expects to pay 8 dollars an hour. However if you tip a dollar then suddenly he doesn't have to pay that dollar. Do you expect him to pass on those savings to you? Absolutely not! He will pocket that dollar as extra profit.

There is no evidence that tipping reduces prices (since the employer needs to expect to pay a minimum wage anyways), there is no evidence that tipping is required as a service metric (otherwise the Customer Service reps at your local retails store would perform appallingly), and there is no explanation why tipping is seen to be required for some customer service positions and not others.

Tipping may not reduce prices, but what do you think will happen if employee wages went up?

[kaplin42]

The employer builds into the price of the product (such as a dinner) a minimum wage for his employees. He expects to pay 8 dollars an hour. However if you tip a dollar then suddenly he doesn't have to pay that dollar. Do you expect him to pass on those savings to you? Absolutely not! He will pocket that dollar as extra profit.

There is no evidence that tipping reduces prices (since the employer needs to expect to pay a minimum wage anyways), there is no evidence that tipping is required as a service metric (otherwise the Customer Service reps at your local retails store would perform appallingly), and there is no explanation why tipping is seen to be required for some customer service positions and not others.

Maybe not lower the prices, but I would guarantee you that if you outlawed tipping and employers had to pay their employees a decent living wage, not only would service standards go down, but menu prices would skyrocket, and not just by a buck or two, more like double.

[beach tribe]

I agree about all the other people trying to get tips for EVERYTHING though.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L5inlXT2MYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Fish]

Maybe not lower the prices, but I would guarantee you that if you outlawed tipping and employers had to pay their employees a decent living wage, not only would service standards go down, but menu prices would skyrocket, and not just by a buck or two, more like double.

You cannot guarantee that in any shape or form. There's no proof that tips increase service standards. That's just silly. For some reason 99% of the world's professions can be adequately accomplished without the need for a "doggy treat" reward in the form of a tip. But you're trying to say that the waitstaff profession is unique in requiring this form of reward in order to function their job? BS.

Yes, food prices would go up, because restaurants would be required to actually pay their employees a full wage. But it certainly would not double. The average tip is 15-20%. Shift that 15-20% from the tipping public to the employer, and raise prices by 15-20%. Prices will go up but they will be comparable to the price of the food now + tip.

[Fish]

It's the only reason to make the extra effort over what it takes to not get fired.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you have never been on that side of the coin. If I'm correct, then my bet is you have no idea why someone who has/does do that type of work might be pissed about why $5 tip on a $105 check.

And when I left, the industry, we were getting taxed on 8% of total sales at least, and if it was a credit card, you got taxed for the whole tip if it was above the standard 8% that was put on the card, because it was all entered in a computer. With the above example, which was more than likely paid by a credit card, that tip didn't even cover the tax that the server had to pay on that check. Nice to have to pay to work right?

I've worked in food service. I worked in a pizza place in college, including delivering. That doesn't change anything about my opinions on tipping. It was flawed then, and it's flawed now. Tipping plays the worker and the consumer against each other, for the benefit of the employer. That's the reason it exists. The employer gets to advertise an artificially low price, and he gets to pay his workers a low wage, keeping more profit for himself, because the consumers will pay the worker for him. The rest of the world doesn't even consider this flawed system at all.

[luv]

You cannot guarantee that in any shape or form. There's no proof that tips increase service standards. That's just silly. For some reason 99% of the world's professions can be adequately accomplished without the need for a "doggy treat" reward in the form of a tip. But you're trying to say that the waitstaff profession is unique in requiring this form of reward in order to function their job? BS.

Yes, food prices would go up, because restaurants would be required to actually pay their employees a full wage. But it certainly would not double. The average tip is 15-20%. Shift that 15-20% from the tipping public to the employer, and raise prices by 15-20%. Prices will go up but they will be comparable to the price of the food now + tip.

A lot of places give incentives. I worked in production and we had a quota. If we produced at a certain level over our quota, then we received an incentive (usually monetary). Most wait staff make well over minimum wage thanks to tips, so I don't hear them complaining (overall, of course they'll talk about someone who stiffs them). You make employers pay them minimum wage, and several of their salaries would be cut drastically. The employer, as you have stated on several occasions, benefits for the reasons you've mentioned. The customers aren't getting screwed. They can choose how much to leave, if any at all. Without tipping, the prices would go up for everyone, including those who don't tip or don't tip much. Pretty sure that would make the customer unhappy.

[Fish]

A lot of places give incentives. I worked in production and we had a quota. If we produced at a certain level over our quota, then we received an incentive (usually monetary). Most wait staff make well over minimum wage thanks to tips, so I don't hear them complaining (overall, of course they'll talk about someone who stiffs them). You make employers pay them minimum wage, and several of their salaries would be cut drastically. The employer, as you have stated on several occasions, benefits for the reasons you've mentioned. The customers aren't getting screwed. They can choose how much to leave, if any at all. Without tipping, the prices would go up for everyone, including those who don't tip or don't tip much. Pretty sure that would make the customer unhappy.

That's a poor comparison. The incentives are given by the employer, on top of an already livable wage above minimum wage. That's not the same as a tip coming from the actual consumer and not the employer. And the employer isn't reducing the employee's wages with the expectation of those incentives.

And this entire thread was started because of an employee complaining about not getting the tips she felt that she deserved. You can't say waitstaff aren't complaining. Many waitstaff make it sound like their lives revolve around their amount of tips.

Many customers would prefer a price increase if it meant the end of the hassle of tipping. We've seen evidence of that in this thread.

[whoman69]

I've worked in food service. I worked in a pizza place in college, including delivering. That doesn't change anything about my opinions on tipping. It was flawed then, and it's flawed now. Tipping plays the worker and the consumer against each other, for the benefit of the employer. That's the reason it exists. The employer gets to advertise an artificially low price, and he gets to pay his workers a low wage, keeping more profit for himself, because the consumers will pay the worker for him. The rest of the world doesn't even consider this flawed system at all.

Depends on the place. I don't tip well at a buffet because I don't believe the waiter is doing very much to assist me. Most waiters/waitresses would lose money giving up their tips and getting a $2 an hour raise.

Most people understand they need to tip their waiter and that should be figured in to the price of the meal. You get this going both ways. You have consumers who are cheap and undertip, and waiters that give lousy service then still expect 15%. I hate it when restaurants charge a certain tip level into the price of the meal because it precludes my right to say I got lousy service and don't want to tip that much.

[luv]

That's a poor comparison. The incentives are given by the employer, on top of an already livable wage above minimum wage. That's not the same as a tip coming from the actual consumer and not the employer. And the employer isn't reducing the employee's wages with the expectation of those incentives.

And this entire thread was started because of an employee complaining about not getting the tips she felt that she deserved. You can't say waitstaff aren't complaining. Many waitstaff make it sound like their lives revolve around their amount of tips.


You must have missed the part of my post where I said "in general" and that "they will always complain about the ones that stiff them".

An incentive is an incentive. I'm getting the money, so what do I care where it's coming from? If the employer raises the prices and ultimately reduces the employees cash flow as a result, are the customers not ultimately still the ones paying the salary? In the meanwhile, employees are pissed. You say they complain now about a few customers? Just wait until you take even more money away from them.

[tooge]

Here's my thought on tipping--If its something I can do for myself at home but I am choosing to go out and have someone do it for me, then I believe a tip is deserved. Bartenders provide a service that you can do at home, but you are having them do it for you and they are probably able to do it better in most cases. Wait service? Same thing. I can cook and get my own food at home, but I am choosing to go out and have them do it for me. I think tipping is deserved. Valet? I can park in self parking but I am choosing to use their service. Thats how I base tipping and I tip very well...

Wait staff isn't cooking your food, the chef is. just sayin.

I've never understood tipping, but I'm a good tipper so I don't look like an asshole. I'm usually rounded up or down at 20% unless the server is an absolute moron. The reason I've never understood tipping is, for example, I'm supposed to tip the gal that cuts my hair right? Why not just add $3 to the cost of the haircut?

[Fish]

Depends on the place. I don't tip well at a buffet because I don't believe the waiter is doing very much to assist me. Most waiters/waitresses would lose money giving up their tips and getting a $2 an hour raise.

Most people understand they need to tip their waiter and that should be figured in to the price of the meal. You get this going both ways. You have consumers who are cheap and undertip, and waiters that give lousy service then still expect 15%. I hate it when restaurants charge a certain tip level into the price of the meal because it precludes my right to say I got lousy service and don't want to tip that much.

That's also part of the point. Everyone that's defending the tipping phenomena readily admits that it's a very inconsistent scheme. Which is part of the problem. "Most" people understand. So there's a portion of the population that doesn't understand or doesn't care. That should be a red flag that the system is fucked. There's no way that someone can spin it to make tipping efficient and effective on a consistent basis.

[Fish]

You must have missed the part of my post where I said "in general" and that "they will always complain about the ones that stiff them".

An incentive is an incentive. I'm getting the money, so what do I care where it's coming from? If the employer raises the prices and ultimately reduces the employees cash flow as a result, are the customers not ultimately still the ones paying the salary? In the meanwhile, employees are pissed. You say they complain now about a few customers? Just wait until you take even more money away from them.

Why is that exactly? I think it's an interesting point.

It's because the employer has devised a method of directing the employee's desire for a decent wage onto the consumer instead of the employer. When the employee doesn't make enough money, they blame the consumer instead of the one who signs their paycheck. It's brilliant really....

[luv]

Why is that exactly? I think it's an interesting point.

It's because the employer has devised a method of directing the employee's desire for a decent wage onto the consumer instead of the employer. When the employee doesn't make enough money, they blame the consumer instead of the one who signs their paycheck. It's brilliant really....

You never bitch about aspects of your job?

[Fish]

You never bitch about aspects of your job?

Of course I do. But I don't blame the people who's computer I'm fixing when I don't feel like I made enough money yesterday. I don't expect them to help in that regard.

[luv]

Of course I do. But I don't blame the people who's computer I'm fixing when I don't feel like I made enough money yesterday. I don't expect them to help in that regard.

No, but I'll bet you call them morons.

[kysirsoze]

LMAO... yeah right... Like tips are the only motivation for waitstaff to do their jobs. Without that, they'd likely all turn to crime and prostitution... Chaos in the streets..

No, they'd just do a shitty job and get away with it. It's not hard.

[Fish]

No, they'd just do a shitty job and get away with it. It's not hard.

If they do a shitty job, they'll be fired. You act like employers would just let their waitstaff act like assholes if it weren't for the whole tipping scheme that's in place. Maybe hang a sign out front...

Dear patrons,

We outlawed tipping at this restaurant, so our employees will be angry and hateful tonight. Sorry about the inconvenience.

Management

[Rain Man]

No, they'd just do a shitty job and get away with it. It's not hard.

So are waiters fundamentally different in their psychological makeup than the 90 percent of workers who don't work for tips? Or are they the hard workers while the 90 percent of non-tipped people do lousy work?

[MoreLemonPledge]

So are waiters fundamentally different in their psychological makeup than the 90 percent of workers who don't work for tips? Or are they the hard workers while the 90 percent of non-tipped people do lousy work?

It's just an extreme version of incentive-based pay with immediate results. Performance bonuses, profit-sharing, stock options, etc. are basically the same concept and are found in the vast majority of businesses.

[Rain Man]

It's just an extreme version of incentive-based pay with immediate results. Performance bonuses, profit-sharing, stock options, etc. are basically the same concept and are found in the vast majority of businesses.

But it's not the customers who are directly paying those other incentives, which in my mind is a key difference.

I'm trying to envision my business being run with tips, and can't do it. Perhaps it's because the dollars are bigger. I can't imagine doing a survey for $15,000 and then expecting the client to tip my research managers another $3,000.

Maybe we should try it, though. We've never actually put a tip jar on the table in a client meeting, so I guess I can't claim that it won't work.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I have tended bar, and been a server for extra income for many years, and I don't want to sound racist, but even black bartenders and servers will tell you that 99% of all black people are complete garbage tippers. I couldn't tell you why but it is widely known in the industry, and some people even go so far as to not go out of their way(not me!) to provide excellent service because they know they are going to be stiffed. I would never do this, but have often been pissed that i busted my ass
To
Insure
Prompt
Service
and then got stiffed.

I noticed this as well. They can be nice as anything, but it just seems culturally that they don't tip. One of those generalizations that seems to be true.

I delivered a pizza to a house in a nice neigborhood where tipping is usually pretty good. Went in, it was a black couple and their kid. Nice big clean house, they were nice, they paid me exact change and that was it. Weird.

[Carlota69]

Wait staff isn't cooking your food, the chef is. just sayin.

I've never understood tipping, but I'm a good tipper so I don't look like an asshole. I'm usually rounded up or down at 20% unless the server is an absolute moron. The reason I've never understood tipping is, for example, I'm supposed to tip the gal that cuts my hair right? Why not just add $3 to the cost of the haircut?
True, but the chef is making a decent wage, most of the time. I agree about the haircut tipping. Theres a ton of examples where I wonder why we have to tip, but we do, or we might get a bowl cut if we dont...

[Fish]

But it's not the customers who are directly paying those other incentives, which in my mind is a key difference.

I'm trying to envision my business being run with tips, and can't do it. Perhaps it's because the dollars are bigger. I can't imagine doing a survey for $15,000 and then expecting the client to tip my research managers another $3,000.

Maybe we should try it, though. We've never actually put a tip jar on the table in a client meeting, so I guess I can't claim that it won't work.

Yeah, and even better, try and convince your employees that part of their income is dependent on the client tipping, which also happens to be completely optional....

Who knows, you might see a 200% increase in productivity if you could implement a tipping scheme though. Supposedly, productivity skyrockets when tipping in involved...

[Fire Me Boy!]

But it's not the customers who are directly paying those other incentives, which in my mind is a key difference.

I'm trying to envision my business being run with tips, and can't do it. Perhaps it's because the dollars are bigger. I can't imagine doing a survey for $15,000 and then expecting the client to tip my research managers another $3,000.

Maybe we should try it, though. We've never actually put a tip jar on the table in a client meeting, so I guess I can't claim that it won't work.

Tell them without market researchers, the communists win and we'll all wear grey jumpsuits and drive the same grey cars.

[crazycoffey]

If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out or drink at the bar. Buy a six pack of natty light and stay home.

[Omaha]

True, but the chef is making a decent wage, most of the time. I agree about the haircut tipping. Theres a ton of examples where I wonder why we have to tip, but we do, or we might get a bowl cut if we dont...

Wait... what's wrong with a bowl cut? Those are still cool, right?

[sedated]

If they do a shitty job, they'll be fired. You act like employers would just let their waitstaff act like assholes if it weren't for the whole tipping scheme that's in place.

At several places I’ve visited, I seriously doubt the management has any idea what the wait staff/bartenders are doing. They drink on the job, give out free drinks, ignore customers, roll their eyes at complaints, etc. I’ve been to several places where the bartenders are texting or checking out facebook for long periods of time, sometimes with customers standing there staring at them. I can't remember the last time a server had a smile on her face.

But the thing that gets me is when we will get service bad enough that the topic of conversation is how bad the service is…and the people I’m with STILL tip 20%. I’m never opposed to tipping $0.05 for crap service, but I seem to be one of the few that still associates tip with service, everyone else seems to see it as an obligation, or is afraid they will be called cheap (my mom tips 20% because she thinks if she leaves less the server will find her and slash her tires).

Not that bad tipping gets any results. I worked in restaurants/bars for 8 years – you know what the response is when someone gets a bad tip? “What a cheap assh0le”. I’ve never seen a server blame herself when they get a bad tip, its always due to the cheap-ass that she was forced to help.

The places with the best service in my experience were the ones that hired experienced, full-time servers (not the high school kid who just needs a summer job so he could buy weed, or the college girl who spends her time in between tables studying for finals)…or had secret shoppers. I’m a huge fan of secret shoppers, nothing gets better service than the threat that you could be an employee judging her performance. “You want every ingredient on those nachos served separately? SURE!! A bowl of only red M&Ms? Not a problem!!”

If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out or drink at the bar. Buy a six pack of natty light and stay home.

This is an irrelevant post that always seems to get thrown into these threads. People don’t avoid going out because they can’t afford a tip, they avoid going out because its expensive even without the tip. Do a lot of your friends tell the server “your service was great, but I only have the exact amount to pay for the beer I drank.”

Also, this attitude does nothing more than reinforce the idea that people who don’t leave a certain tip, regardless of the service, are either cheap or poor.

[Omaha]

But the thing that gets me is when we will get service bad enough that the topic of conversation is how bad the service is…and the people I’m with STILL tip 20%. I’m never opposed to tipping $0.05 for crap service, but I seem to be one of the few that still associates tip with service, everyone else seems to see it as an obligation, or is afraid they will be called cheap (my mom tips 20% because she thinks if she leaves less the server will find her and slash her tires).



I do this.

[Omaha]

Do you guys add additional tip when places automatically add an 18% gratuity to the bill?

A group of us go to a bar every Tuesday night & have beer & wings. There was a waitress who always took great care of us & never added gratuity to the bill & I used to tip very well. (25% - 50% some nights)

Now she's gone & the new people are not nearly as good. They add the 18% gratuity & I figure that they tipped themselves so we're all good. The stupid bill still has a place for additional tip & we all feel kinda douchey just writing -0- there. Last night I left $1 & that seemed even dumber after I did it. What do you guys do?

[Omaha]

.

[Johnny Vegas]

that tip was too fat /omaha

[Bump]

Do you guys add additional tip when places automatically add an 18% gratuity to the bill?

A group of us go to a bar every Tuesday night & have beer & wings. There was a waitress who always took great care of us & never added gratuity to the bill & I used to tip very well. (25% - 50% some nights)

Now she's gone & the new people are not nearly as good. They add the 18% gratuity & I figure that they tipped themselves so we're all good. The stupid bill still has a place for additional tip & we all feel kinda douchey just writing -0- there. Last night I left $1 & that seemed even dumber after I did it. What do you guys do?

pretty much all places add gratuity to the bill if it's like 8 or more people in the party.

[Lzen]

That's the other reason why a no-tip restaurant would be good. Waiters and waitresses have an incentive to give away the company's sales to get bigger tips.

I was in a restaurant last week and the service was lousy. At one point I finally walked up to the drink area and asked for a refill of Mr. Pibb because I'd been out for ten or fifteen minutes. Then later the waitress came by, took my glass to refill it, and never brought it back. So after another ten or fifteen minutes I had to flag her down and ask her to bring my drink back. She told me she had forgotten about me. Thanks.

So when the bill came, she said, "I'm giving you the Mr. Pibb free since I had such problems keeping it on the table for you." Now, that's nice and I appreciate it. Presumably it's worth giving her a reasonable tip, right? But what just happened? Revenue that should have gone to the restaurant owner went away, and if I increase my tip it goes to her? That's not right. She's the one who screwed up, not the restaurant owner.

You could be correct. But it's also possible that it's the restaurant owners fault for being too cheap to hire enough wait staff to adequately handle all tables.

[Lzen]

If you tip 5 dollars on a 138 dollar ticket, you are a piece of shit and deserve to have your food spat in.

Chilli's pays their servers the minimum, which is under 3 dollars per hour. MOST chains like this (Applebees and so forth) are the same way.

I've never worked in the food industry and hopefully never will, because there are few lines of work that have such a terrible track record with their employees.

You're ignoring one thing. What if her service was bad? If she was a terrible server then she deserved a small tip or none at all. Nobody has a right to spit in a customer's food. That is BS.

[whoman69]

Tell them without market researchers, the communists win and we'll all wear grey jumpsuits and drive the same grey cars.

Not the Lada!!!!!!!!

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4703120_f520.jpg