Would you pay Bowe $120-130M for 8 years?

[jAZ]

According to...
Evan Silva ‏@evansilva

RT @ChiefsOrioles12 Do the Chiefs get Bowe signed long term before the 16th? ... Doubt it. Believed to be seeking big-time money.

Which means...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82797e12/article/calvin-johnson-signs-new-eightyear-contract-with-lions
Johnson is scheduled to earn close to $130 million over the next eight seasons, including $113.5 million over the final seven years of the deal, league sources told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.

The contract includes $4.5 million in an existing roster bonus that's due on the final year of his rookie deal.


The deal also includes $53 million in guaranteed money, with Johnson's $1.25 million base salary in 2012 guaranteed, and $36 million due in signing and option bonuses. According to La Canfora, $11.5 million in future salary is guaranteed for injury only.

The contract makes Johnson -- who scorched the NFL with 96 catches for 1,681 yards and 16 touchdowns in 2011 -- the highest-paid wide receiver in league history, surpassing the eight-year, $120 million deal that Larry Fitzgerald signed with the Arizona Cardinals before last season.

[milkman]

No.

[SAUTO]

Tough one
Posted via Mobile Device

[Nightfyre]

Why? We can franchise him for three or four years consecutively for cheaper than that.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

NO

[milkman]

Why? We can franchise him for three or four years consecutively for cheaper than that.

You can only franchise a player twice.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

5Y 55m 30M guaranteed Gets the job done. Plus why the fuck would a NFL player lock himself into a 8 year deal.

[Nightfyre]

You can only franchise player twice.

Eh. :shrug:

[BigMeatballDave]

No way.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

You can only franchise a player twice.

Not true can get hit 3 times with it.

[Munson]

No way in hell. He's not worth anywhere near $100 million.

[Mr. Kotter]

The key here, of course, is "guaranteed" money. Anything beyond a reasonable 3 year amount ($40-50 million)...for a "very good" WR, would be too much; give him that....and make the rest incentive laden, so after 3 years the Chief's could cut their losses if he turns into Larry Johnson, II.

JMHO

[Hammock Parties]

Roddy White got a 6-year, 48 million dollar contract in 2009.

Bowe is in his class (Roddy has even worse "drop issues" FYI).

I'd say Bowe's worth 10 million, accounting for inflation.

[Bwana]

Hell no

[rico]

Absolutely no way in hell.

[BoneKrusher]

if the Chiefs plan of getting a Franchise QB, Yes
i'd pay what it takes to keep him in KC, if they plan on keeping Cassel beyond this year, No.

[notorious]

No fucking way.

[okcchief]

No

[In58men]

Nope

[BossChief]

I'd give him VJs deal but with more guarantees.

5/55 35 guaranteed

[Hammock Parties]

I'd give him VJs deal but with more guarantees.

5/55 35 guaranteed

That's quite fair, I'd say.

Bowe is without question better than VJ. More productive with worse QB play.

We saw a potential contender with offensive issues perhaps overpay VJ a little to get what they needed - a #1 WR.

No reason the Chiefs shouldn't follow suit. Gotta do what you gotta do to compete.

[okcchief]

Bowe is good, but he's not Fitzgerald/Megatron good.

[DeezNutz]

How is it structured and what are the guarantees?

[okcchief]

5 years 55-60 million I'd be good with.

[BigMeatballDave]

How is it structured and what are the guarantees?

If he doesn't catch at least 80, he gets to punch Matt in the junk.

[O.city]

That's quite fair, I'd say.

Bowe is without question better than VJ. More productive with worse QB play.

We saw a potential contender with offensive issues perhaps overpay VJ a little to get what they needed - a #1 WR.

No reason the Chiefs shouldn't follow suit. Gotta do what you gotta do to compete.

The Bucs are a potential contender?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd gladly give him $10-12M a year with a huge guaranteed number. The guy has done as much is as humanly possible considering his "surroundings".

If we're going to keep letting great players walk over money - when we're sitting way under the cap - while playing shitbums like Cassel and Jackson $10M a season average - we'll never have to worry about winning a championship.

[Just Passin' By]

Would you pay Bowe $120-130M for 8 years?

$15 million plus as a season average for Bowe? I don't see any way that he's worth that.

[the Talking Can]

but if we pay bowe, how will we be $30 mill under the cap?

[milkman]

I'd gladly give him $10-12M a year with a huge guaranteed number. The guy has done as much is as humanly possible considering his "surroundings".

If we're going to keep letting great players walk over money - when we're sitting way under the cap - while playing shitbums like Cassel and Jackson $10M a season average - we'll never have to worry about winning a championship.

As I said earlier, the only player you overpay to keep is a franchise QB.

You pay Bowe what he's worth, but no way you should overpay him.

WRs are not going to win you SBs.

We aren't going to win a SB with Matt Cassel and Dwayne Bowe.

We could win a SB with a franchise QB and some other team's retread WR.

[JD10367]

Last March, this was ESPN's list of Top Ten Receivers:

1. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans
2. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
3. Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons
4. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
5. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts
6. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers
7. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs
8. DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Brandon Lloyd, Denver Broncos
10. Brandon Marshall, Miami Dolphins

Only half (five out of ten) made the playoffs.

None even made the conference championship games, let alone the Super Bowl.

[OnTheWarpath15]

As I said earlier, the only player you overpay to keep is a franchise QB.

You pay Bowe what he's worth, but no way you should overpay him.

WRs are not going to win you SBs.

We aren't going to win a SB with Matt Cassel and Dwayne Bowe.

We could win a SB with a franchise QB and some other team's retread WR.

Well, we're not going to win a SB with Matt Cassel, period.

So using that logic, we shouldn't be paying anyone.

Personally, I don't think $10-12M a year average is overpaying him.

Especially when you consider what we're paying (and have paid) Cassel, Dorsey and Jackson.

[qabbaan]

They aren't serious about re-signing Bowe. If they were, the time to do it was last year. Pioli isn't stupid. They simply seem to feel he is expendable.

[KCrockaholic]

Last March, this was ESPN's list of Top Ten Receivers:

1. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans
2. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
3. Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons
4. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
5. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts
6. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers
7. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs
8. DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Brandon Lloyd, Denver Broncos
10. Brandon Marshall, Miami Dolphins

Only half (five out of ten) made the playoffs.

None even made the conference championship games, let alone the Super Bowl.

I have a feeling you're insinuating that you don't need an elite receiver to make the playoffs/win championships.

[BigMeatballDave]

Last March, this was ESPN's list of Top Ten Receivers:

1. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans
2. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
3. Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons
4. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
5. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts
6. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers
7. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs
8. DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Brandon Lloyd, Denver Broncos
10. Brandon Marshall, Miami Dolphins

Only half (five out of ten) made the playoffs.

None even made the conference championship games, let alone the Super Bowl.Huh? CJ should be #1, and definitely NOT below White. LOL

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

They aren't serious about re-signing Bowe. If they were, the time to do it was last year. Pioli isn't stupid. They simply seem to feel he is expendable.

Maybe Pioli should re-watch the 2nd half of the Denver game without Bowe.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They aren't serious about re-signing Bowe. If they were, the time to do it was last year. Pioli isn't stupid. They simply seem to feel he is expendable.

Sadly, I tend to agree with this.

[milkman]

Well, we're not going to win a SB with Matt Cassel, period.

So using that logic, we shouldn't be paying anyone.

Personally, I don't think $10-12M a year average is overpaying him.

Especially when you consider what we're paying (and have paid) Cassel, Dorsey and Jackson.

I disagree that 10-12 mil a year is overpaying.

I'd give him 9-10, but not up to 12.

And justifying overpaying him because we are overpaying Cassel and Jackson isn't really justification.

If you do 1 or 2 stupid things, does that justify doing another stupid thing?

[the Talking Can]

Last March, this was ESPN's list of Top Ten Receivers:

1. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans
2. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
3. Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons
4. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
5. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts
6. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers
7. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs
8. DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Brandon Lloyd, Denver Broncos
10. Brandon Marshall, Miami Dolphins

Only half (five out of ten) made the playoffs.

None even made the conference championship games, let alone the Super Bowl.

which doesn't actually mean anything...

so what's your point, that every player on those teams that didn't make the superbowl is non-essential, or just WRs for some random reason?

[O.city]

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see 2 of those wrs in the SB this year.



I'm calling it here. Lions vs. Texans SB.

[milkman]

They aren't serious about re-signing Bowe. If they were, the time to do it was last year. Pioli isn't stupid. They simply seem to feel he is expendable.

That's pure speculation.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I disagree that 10-12 mil a year is overpaying.

I'd give him 9-10, but not up to 12.

And justifying overpaying him because we are overpaying Cassel and Jackson isn't really justification.

If you do 1 or 2 stupid things, does that justify doing another stupid thing?


His play on the field justifies that level of pay.

Cassel and Jackson are just examples of where this organization is wasting money that could go to a deserving player.

[BigMeatballDave]

That's pure speculation.

If Baldwin lights it up this season, this could very well be the case.

[okcchief]

Huh? CJ should be #1, and definitely NOT below White. LOL

Andre, Calvin and Larry you could interchange, but no way Roddy White is better. No team would take White over CJ.

[El Jefe]

No way in hell. He's not worth anywhere near $100 million.

This

[qabbaan]

That's pure speculation.

They're doing the same thing they did with Carr. They weren't interested in paying market for a second #1 CB. That's fine. They let him get to the open market, threw a lowball offer at him, but more or less chose to downgrade to someone older whom they thought was good enough. Ok, if that's your decision, but don't play the "aww shucks, we tried" card.

You don't let a young player in his prime at a premium position hit the open market if you're serious about resigning him. Makes no sense. Pioli isnt an idiot. The only logocal conclusion is that they don't feel paying the player market value is something they need to do to win.

They appear to be following the Patriot way of trying to win with above average players who fit a profile rather than superstars in their prime production years.

That's all well and good, except most of us are starting to see that the Patriot Way has more to with working near Brady and Belichick than Pioli having some kind of way to beat the system.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

They're doing the same thing they did with Carr. They weren't interested in paying market for a second #1 CB. That's fine. They let him get to the open market, threw a lowball offer at him, but more or less chose to downgrade to someone older whom they thought was good enough. Ok, if that's your decision, but don't play the "aww shucks, we tried" card.

You don't let a young player in his prime at a premium position hit the open market if you're serious about resigning him. Makes no sense. Pioli isnt an idiot. The only logocal conclusion is that they don't feel paying the player market value is something they need to do to win.

They appear to be following the Patriot way of trying to win with above average players who fit a profile rather than superstars in their prime production years.

That's all well and good, except most of us are starting to see that the Patriot Way has more to with working near Brady and Belichick than Pioli having some kind of way to beat the system.

No NFL team pays top money for 2 Corners. Bowe is a number 1 WR and he will get paid like it.

[Valiant]

You can only franchise a player twice.

I thought it was 3 years, isnt that what is happening with brees?? franchised as a charger, now a saint, and they said one more time?

[Rasputin]

They over paid Cassel 63 million dollars.

[Valiant]

No NFL team pays top money for 2 Corners. Bowe is a number 1 WR and he will get paid like it.

What happens when/if Bowe does not sign?? Is it you do not pay for this position on a team with a bad QB?? The Chiefs had money to get both..

The you do not pay 2 #1's is not a valid argument anymore with the league turning into a passing happy league with the rules..

[Mr. Laz]

just pay him 300 million dollars and keep him!! He is the best WR in the history of the NFL, look at what he did with Cassle /CPtard

[OnTheWarpath15]

No NFL team pays top money for 2 Corners. Bowe is a number 1 WR and he will get paid like it.

No NFL team pays top money for two 5-techniques.

Oh, wait.

[milkman]

I thought it was 3 years, isnt that what is happening with brees?? franchised as a charger, now a saint, and they said one more time?

I was mistaken, and have already been corrected.

Call me a dumbass and move on.

[qabbaan]

No NFL team pays top money for 2 Corners. Bowe is a number 1 WR and he will get paid like it.

I don't dispute that. The point was just that they were also not interested in retaining Carr unless it was at a steep discount. They tried to keep up appearances, but at the end of they day they have a salary range in mind for CB2 and he was out of their range.

I could be on board with it if we were using that savings to improve the team, but I'm guessing we won't see this.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They're doing the same thing they did with Carr. They weren't interested in paying market for a second #1 CB. That's fine. They let him get to the open market, threw a lowball offer at him, but more or less chose to downgrade to someone older whom they thought was good enough. Ok, if that's your decision, but don't play the "aww shucks, we tried" card.

You don't let a young player in his prime at a premium position hit the open market if you're serious about resigning him. Makes no sense. Pioli isnt an idiot. The only logocal conclusion is that they don't feel paying the player market value is something they need to do to win.

They appear to be following the Patriot way of trying to win with above average players who fit a profile rather than superstars in their prime production years.

That's all well and good, except most of us are starting to see that the Patriot Way has more to with working near Brady and Belichick than Pioli having some kind of way to beat the system.

Nailed it.

Sadly, some of those average players who fit a profile are making the money the playmakers should be making.

[mcaj22]

there is only two scenarios with Bowe and the Chiefs. It's very simple.

1) They work on a long term deal, Bowe wants to play here, his agent and Pioli make it happen in terms of a long term deal. He may sign the franchise tender and then the couple months they have in the offseason a long term deal gets done then

or

2) He doesnt want to play here, signs the franchise tender, showcases his talents this year and then next years FA he walks. Chiefs will need to come to terms with if Bowes camp makes it clear they are stringing the Chiefs along to save face, they might have to trade him to get value out of him instead of nothing. (i.e. by the trade deadline.)

[milkman]

His play on the field justifies that level of pay.

Cassel and Jackson are just examples of where this organization is wasting money that could go to a deserving player.

We'll have to respectfully disagree.

But then, as good as Fitz and CJ are, I think they are overpaid.

That goes back to my original point.

The only player you overpay is a franchise QB.

Every other position is expendable.

And I am a fan of Bowe (and Carr).

[Rasputin]

Pay him or don't pay him, it is Pioli responsibility to put winning tallent on the field. We don't succeed in this off with his head.

[Just Passin' By]

No NFL team pays top money for 2 Corners. Bowe is a number 1 WR and he will get paid like it.

I think you'd have to list the Jets as a team paying top dollar for 2 corners.

[milkman]

Nailed it.

Sadly, some of those average players who fit a profile are making the money the playmakers should be making.

How did he nail it?

Carr got big time money from the Boys.
#1 corner money.

We have no idea what Pioli offered Carr, but I would bet top dollar he offered him a a contract that was equal to or better than the top #2 corners in the league.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

I think you'd have to list the Jets as a team paying top dollar for 2 corners.

Late last night, the New York Jets signed a four-year, $34 million deal, with cornerback Antonio Cromartie.


That's not top money Carr would have turned that down.

[Brock]

How did he nail it?

Carr got big time money from the Boys.
#1 corner money.

We have no idea what Pioli offered Carr, but I would bet top dollar he offered him a a contract that was equal to or better than the top #2 corners in the league.

I don't think they made an offer at all.

[Just Passin' By]

Late last night, the New York Jets signed a four-year, $34 million deal, with cornerback Antonio Cromartie.


That's not top money Carr would have turned that down.

He signed that last year. That was top money.

[Hammock Parties]

The Bucs are a potential contender?

Sure, they were an ass hair from the playoffs before last season.

[luv]

No way. I was going to say it depends on how much is guaranteed, but I don't think that would even matter.

[notorious]

We'll have to respectfully disagree.

But then, as good as Fitz and CJ are, I think they are overpaid.

That goes back to my original point.

The only player you overpay is a franchise QB.

Every other position is expendable.

And I am a fan of Bowe (and Carr).

This.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How did he nail it?

Carr got big time money from the Boys.
#1 corner money.

We have no idea what Pioli offered Carr, but I would bet top dollar he offered him a a contract that was equal to or better than the top #2 corners in the league.

There's the problem.

We offered a CB2 money to a CB1.

Assuming, as Brock said, we made him an offer at all.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

There's the problem.

We offered a CB2 money to a CB1.

When you have Flowers you should do that. Carr will show you this year he is no number 1.

[O.city]

Sure, they were an ass hair from the playoffs before last season.

They were awful last year.


And that year they nearly made the playoffs, didn't they play a weak schedule?

[OnTheWarpath15]

When you have Flowers you should do that. Carr will show you this year he is no number 1.

What he does in Dallas is irrelevant.

Different defense, surrounding cast, etc.

What Carr does in Dallas doesn't change the fact he was a CB1 for the Kansas City Chiefs.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

What he does in Dallas is irrelevant.

Different defense, surrounding cast, etc.

What Carr does in Dallas doesn't change the fact he was a CB1 for the Kansas City Chiefs.


ROFL i guess so when flowers was taking on the teams number 1 wr.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL i guess so when flowers was taking on the teams number 1 wr.

Laugh all you want, he's a better CB than Flowers.

I love Brandon Flowers, but he's overrated because of his run support.

Pissing match over who the better CB is aside, this is a QB-driven, passing league.

Which means 4 positions are of utmost importance:

QB: Over $10M a year average and $30M guaranteed for subpar play.

CB: Downgraded to save $3M a year when we're $30M under the cap.

WR: Potentially losing a Top 5-8 WR, again over money.

DE/OLB: Luckily, we're covered here.

1 out of 4 ain't bad, eh?

[OnTheWarpath15]

And FWIW, Carr and Flowers primarily played a side of the field, not a specific WR.

IIRC, Carr played the right and Flowers the left.

[Brock]

Regardless of whether he's a 1 or not, I have no problem with letting Carr go. I wish they could have gotten something in return. But I think investing too much money in corners would be stupid. I can't think of any team that does that.

[milkman]

What he does in Dallas is irrelevant.

Different defense, surrounding cast, etc.

What Carr does in Dallas doesn't change the fact he was a CB1 for the Kansas City Chiefs.

While I agree that Carr could have been the #1 CB in KC, the fact is, Flowers was lined up against the #1 receiver a good 80% of the time.

[milkman]

Laugh all you want, he's a better CB than Flowers.

I love Brandon Flowers, but he's overrated because of his run support.

Pissing match over who the better CB is aside, this is a QB-driven, passing league.

Which means 4 positions are of utmost importance:

QB: Over $10M a year average and $30M guaranteed for subpar play.

CB: Downgraded to save $3M a year when we're $30M under the cap.

WR: Potentially losing a Top 5-8 WR, again over money.

DE/OLB: Luckily, we're covered here.

1 out of 4 ain't bad, eh?

And again, we are back to my original point.

The only position you overpay, even when you are millions under the cap, is QB.

[Valiant]

I was mistaken, and have already been corrected.

Call me a dumbass and move on.

It is okay, I did not get that far to to see you corrected..

[OnTheWarpath15]

Regardless of whether he's a 1 or not, I have no problem with letting Carr go. I wish they could have gotten something in return. But I think investing too much money in corners would be stupid. I can't think of any team that does that.

Jets.

Packers pay an average of $8.7M to Travon Williams and $9.3M to Charles Woodson.

The Falcons pay an average of a combined $25.86M to Brent Grimes, Asante Samuel and Dunta Robinson.

I'm guessing there are a few more, but this shows there are some teams that value the position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And again, we are back to my original point.

The only position you overpay, even when you are millions under the cap, is QB.

And I'll repeat my point: I don't think what Dallas gave him is overpaying.

Not in this era.

[jspchief]

No way. We need to save that money to sign next year's garbage pile players to one year contracts.

What's the point of suffering through years of crap talent while they build the team from scratch, if they aren't willing to spend to keep the talent they find in the process? Since we didn't build a winner during the window of those rookie contracts, are we going to tear it down again and start over?

We haven't won a playoff game in half a century, but by god look how good we are with the salary cap.

Carl Peterson is proud of you guys.

[007]

The guy is not worth it. He is great but has never put together a season like the WRs getting money like that. Outside Dallas or Washington, I don't think there is a team in the league that would pay him that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No way. We need to save that money to sign next year's garbage pile players to one year contracts.

What's the point of suffering through years of crap talent while they build the team from scratch, if they aren't willing to spend to keep the talent they find in the process? Since we didn't build a winner during the window of those rookie contracts, are we going to tear it down again and start over?

We haven't won a playoff game in half a century, but by god look how good we are with the salary cap.

Carl Peterson is proud of you guys.

http://i40.tinypic.com/of6po2.gif

[milkman]

And I'll repeat my point: I don't think what Dallas gave him is overpaying.

Not in this era.

Carr is being paid to be the #1 corner in Dallas.

He was not, in spite of our belief that he should be, the #1 corner in KC.

And yes, they each play sides, but Flowers lines up on the side that the opposition #1 receiver generally lines up on.

[In58men]

The guy is not worth it. He is great but has never put together a season like the WRs getting money like that. Outside Dallas or Washington, I don't think there is a team in the league that would pay him that.

Look who his QB is lol


How many OC's did he go through again?

[Titty Meat]

Regardless of whether he's a 1 or not, I have no problem with letting Carr go. I wish they could have gotten something in return. But I think investing too much money in corners would be stupid. I can't think of any team that does that.

Agreed. Flowers is a #1 CB and he's playing along side Ed Reed II in the secondary all you need is a solid #2 CB which Stanford Routt can be.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Look who his QB is lol


How many OC's did he go through again?

Look who his QB's have been.

Here are Megatron's career numbers: 366/5842/49

Bowe: 356/4927/36

I think that's very comparable considering he plays in a run-first offense with the likes of Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Matt Cassel and Tyler Palko throwing him the ball - and considering that CJ is the focal point of the Lions offense, getting a ton of targets a game.

[NJChiefsFan]

I agree with the guys giving him about 5 yrs, 55 million. I wouldn't go any higher than that.

Bowe has put up some insane stats with crap at QB and a different OC every freaking year. Now I think part of Bowe's monster stats have come from the fact that Cassel can't actually throw the ball to anybody else, since Bowe makes it easier for him. Still, gotta wonder what he would be doing if we still had Green in his better years.

[whoman69]

You would have to backload it and expect to kick him to the curb in about the 4th year.

[Titty Meat]

You would have to backload it and expect to kick him to the curb in about the 4th year.

Or with all the cap space you could easily front load the contract.

[Hammock Parties]

You would have to backload it and expect to kick him to the curb in about the 4th year.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, kick his over-the-hill 31-year old ass to the curb!

I swear, some of you fuckers don't deserve a player like Bowe. It would be freaking awesome if he played 15 years here.

[Rasputin]

Am pretty confident right now that Bowe will get paid & be in camp no later than mid way. If anything he will play this season as franchised. Am not going worry about him at the moment. I like the idea of the younger WRs taking reps in his absence & D Bowe will come along just fine as the season approaches. This is not the time hit the panic button just yet. As far as we know they are still in negotiations so both sides will iron it out and Bowe won't get as much as he would like & Pioli will over pay what he would rather pay him. They can meet on middle ground.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

In a run-first offense...?


Hell no.


Trade him.

[beach tribe]

No NFL team pays top money for two 5-techniques.

Oh, wait.

Ty Warren and Richard Seymore IIRC

[Brock]

In a run-first offense...?


Hell no.


Trade him.

:facepalm: dear god.

[Hammock Parties]

:facepalm: dear god.

ROFL

Pathetic, ain't it?

I wonder if we could re sign Bobby Wade.

[007]

Look who his QB's have been.

Here are Megatron's career numbers: 366/5842/49

Bowe: 356/4927/36

I think that's very comparable considering he plays in a run-first offense with the likes of Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Matt Cassel and Tyler Palko throwing him the ball - and considering that CJ is the focal point of the Lions offense, getting a ton of targets a game.

Even with that, no team is going to put up that kind of coin for him other than the owners that spend just because they can.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ty Warren and Richard Seymore IIRC

Neither averaged $10+M a season while with the Patriots.

Seymour signed an extension worth $30 over 3 years, but that was after playing his first 4-5 years on the cheap.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Hooray for a $120M receiver and a noodle arm qb.

Kind of like buying a mustang...but only getting the v6 engine.

[Titty Meat]

Even with that, no team is going to put up that kind of coin for him other than the owners that spend just because they can.

Miami will.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Hooray for a $120M receiver and a noodle arm qb.

Kind of like buying a mustang...but only getting the v6 engine.

So the better course of action is to keep the noodle armed QB and take away his best weapon?

Hmmm. Keep one piece of the puzzle, and find a QB, or get rid of Bowe and need a QB and a Top 8 WR.

[el borracho]

let Bowe walk and use the money we save to give Cassel an extension.

[Titty Meat]

So the better course of action is to keep the noodle armed QB and take away his best weapon?

Hmmm. Keep one piece of the puzzle, and find a QB, or get rid of Bowe and need a QB and a Top 8 WR.

This.

Dump Cassel and one of the 5 techs use that money to front load Bowes contract and find a QB.

[DeezNutz]

I hate Big WR. /Donger

[el borracho]

Kidding, of course. Although I wouldn't mind trading Bowe for a future first round draft pick with the hope of trading up for a legit QB in next year's draft.

[DeezNutz]

Seriously, what a stupid fucking debate.

We finally have a legit #1 WR, and we're arguing about whether or not we should keep him? This is Denver-level stupid.

[Titty Meat]

Seriously, what a stupid ****ing debate.

We finally have a legit #1 WR, and we're arguing about whether or not we should keep him? This is Denver-level stupid.

It's the off season.

[007]

let Bowe walk and use the money we save to give Cassel an extension.

I know you are not serious but a big fuck you anyway. :D

[DeezNutz]

I'm always incredibly worried about Clark's father's money. No matter that Bowe won't see the majority of a back-loaded contract that looks far better on paper than it really is.

We should trade him.

[007]

Kidding, of course. Although I wouldn't mind trading Bowe for a future first round draft pick with the hope of trading up for a legit QB in next year's draft.

never happen.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Seriously, what a stupid fucking debate.

We finally have a legit #1 WR, and we're arguing about whether or not we should keep him? This is Denver-level stupid.

Gotta make sure we have the money free to pay our one-dimensional 5-techniques and shitty QB.

[chiefs1111]

FFS. Pay Bowe and be done with it. He is clearly worth the money.

[Titty Meat]

54-5



wow....

[Psyko Tek]

Last March, this was ESPN's list of Top Ten Receivers:

1. Andre Johnson, Houston Texans
2. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
3. Roddy White, Atlanta Falcons
4. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
5. Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts
6. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers
7. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs
8. DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Brandon Lloyd, Denver Broncos
10. Brandon Marshall, Miami Dolphins

Only half (five out of ten) made the playoffs.

None even made the conference championship games, let alone the Super Bowl.

I have never saw WR as worth all the shit they cause
most are head cases and very few can back up their egos
would have rather kept Carr
trade his ass to cleveland

[BigMeatballDave]

I have never saw WR as worth all the shit they cause
most are head cases and very few can back up their egos
would have rather kept Carr
trade his ass to cleveland

:spock:

[Brock]

Hooray for a $120M receiver and a noodle arm qb.

Kind of like buying a mustang...but only getting the v6 engine.

Obviously, the smart thing to do is get rid of one of your three best players.

[stonedstooge]

Don't forget about the new CBA. Money saved on draft picks is supposed to go to vetern players right?

[Hammock Parties]

Hooray for a $120M receiver and a noodle arm qb.

Kind of like buying a mustang...but only getting the v6 engine.

That's all you need when you're not interested in winning shit.

[ChiefsCountry]

Pay the man. Brady Quinn is going to make Bowe a Superstar.

[BigMeatballDave]

Come clean, who voted Yes?

[BossChief]

Late last night, the New York Jets signed a four-year, $34 million deal, with cornerback Antonio Cromartie.


That's not top money Carr would have turned that down.The Jets tried to get Carr to come to NY and they drove the price up to 10 when Dallas was offering 7.5.

Carr said that on nfln after he signed with Dallas.

He said NY and another team made "a comparable offer" but that he never left Dallas.

Seriously, what a stupid fucking debate.

We finally have a legit #1 WR, and we're arguing about whether or not we should keep him? This is Denver-level stupid.

It's not stupid, dude.

No player is worth a blank check.

Except quarterbacks.

[|Zach|]

Not my money.

[DeezNutz]

Fitz's contract included about $50M guaranteed. So you'd have to think that Bowe would be less, perhaps in the $35-45M range.

So the actually figure $120-130M is simply window dressing, since the player will never see all of this money. But let's not worry about that inconvenient detail.

Sign the player. Anything else would be ludicrous.

[Hammock Parties]

It's stupid because in all honesty, I expect Bowe to end up somewhere where they pay him 10 million a year, all because Pioli wanted to pay him 8.

That's stupid.

[DeezNutz]

It's not stupid, dude.

No player is worth a blank check.

Except quarterbacks.

Is this being debated?

[BigMeatballDave]

Even CJ and Fitz aren't worth that kind of money.

I love Bowe, but if he does want that much, then good luck elsewhere.

Doesn't really matter who we have at WR when Cassel is the QB.

[J Diddy]

The Jets tried to get Carr to come to NY and they drove the price up to 10 when Dallas was offering 7.5.

Carr said that on nfln after he signed with Dallas.

He said NY and another team made "a comparable offer" but that he never left Dallas.



It's not stupid, dude.

No player is worth a blank check.

Except quarterbacks.

I agree. Dan Marino polishes all the Lombardi's nightly.

[DeezNutz]

Hell, Charles was $13M guaranteed, and Pioli has shown an ability to get team-friendly deals, so...

[BigMeatballDave]

Not my money.

Not really the point.

[BossChief]

Is this being debated?
Fitz
8/20/2011: Signed an eight-year, $128.5 million contract. The deal contains $50 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus and first-year roster bonus of $8 million. Fitzgerald is eligible for annual $250,000 workout bonuses in years two through eight. 2012: $5 million (+ $6 million roster bonus due 3/31), 2013: $5 million (+ $10 million option bonus due 3/15), 2014: $12.75 million, 2015: $8 million (+ $8 million roster bonus), 2016: $15 million, 2017-2018: $14.75 million, 2019: Free Agent

CJ
3/13/2012: Signed an eight-year, $150.5 million contract. The deal contains $60 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus, all of Johnson's base salaries in years one through four, and $9 million of his 2016 salary. 2012: $1.25 million (+ $4.5 million roster bonus), 2013: $5 million (+ $20 million option bonus), 2014: $5 million, 2015: $12.5 million, 2016: $15.95 million, 2017: $16.5 million, 2018: $17 million ($3.5 million guaranteed if team "buys back" final two years), 2019: $18.25 million, 2020: Free Agent

[saphojunkie]

No NFL team pays top money for two 5-techniques.

Oh, wait.

Boo hoo Herm drafted a DT fifth overall and Pioli drafted one at #3.

I'm sure their next contracts will be just as large as the inflated ones from the old CBA.

[BossChief]

8/100 with 40 in guarantees would be pushing it. BIG TIME.

No way I'm giving Bowe either of the deals those guys got.

Not even close.

[Bump]

lol, no. If he's demanding that much, he can feel free to get the fuck outta here. He's dropped too many balls for Fitz or Johnson & Johnson money. He's good, but not that good.

[Hammock Parties]

He's dropped too many balls for Fitz or Johnson & Johnson money.

Calvin Johnson dropped 7 balls last year. Bowe dropped 10.

The year before it was 6 and 8.

Hell, Calvin Johnson once dropped 13 passes in a year.

[Hammock Parties]

lol, no. If he's demanding that much, he can feel free to get the fuck outta here. He's dropped too many balls for Fitz or Johnson & Johnson money. He's good, but not that good.

Isn't it interesting that Pioli had no issues paying Matt Cassel 10 million a year?

And yet, potentially, he won't give the same money to Bowe?

Seems like that's rather unfair.

Pioli can feel free to get the fuck outta here.

[BossChief]

Pioli has already paid Flowers and Hali really big money and gave DJ and Charles fair market value.

There is nothing to indicate he hasn't been fair in his contract negotiations concerning our players.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It's stupid because in all honesty, I expect Bowe to end up somewhere where they pay him 10 million a year, all because Pioli wanted to pay him 8.

That's stupid.The OP isn't about 10 mill a year. 8 years/80 million might be much more palatable.

[Hammock Parties]

Pioli has already paid Flowers and Hali really big money and gave DJ and Charles fair market value.

There is nothing to indicate he hasn't been fair in his contract negotiations concerning our players.

Agreed.

If he doesn't pay Bowe 10 million a year, though, he's a shitbag.

[BossChief]

Agreed.

If he doesn't pay Bowe 10 million a year, though, he's a shitbag.

You have so much artificial hate for Pioli that you are removed from reality in every topic that has anything to do with him.

None of us know Bowes demands and if they are realistic or not.

[Titty Meat]

You have so much artificial hate for Pioli that you are removed from reality in every topic that has anything to do with him.

None of us know Bowes demands and if they are realistic or not.

Yeah but if he lets Bowe walk for nothing that's going to look bad. If a deal can't be reached this year tag Bowe again and hopefully get a draft pick for him.

[Hammock Parties]

You have so much artificial hate for Pioli that you are removed from reality in every topic that has anything to do with him.


He signed Brady Quinn to compete at quarterback this offseason.

He drafted a piece of shit Poe.

He brings it on himself.

[Bump]

Isn't it interesting that Pioli had no issues paying Matt Cassel 10 million a year?

And yet, potentially, he won't give the same money to Bowe?

Seems like that's rather unfair.

Pioli can feel free to get the **** outta here.

well, when you look at it that way...lol

All I'm saying is that I have no problem in paying Bowe. He might even be the best WR we've ever had. But he shouldn't get Fitzgerald money or Calvin Johnson money if thats what he is demanding. I'd be totally cool with giving him a $60-70 mill deal, but not any 100 mill deal, no way.

[BigMeatballDave]

He drafted a piece of shit Poe.
.:rolleyes:

You have no idea what Poe is.

[jspchief]

It's stupid because in all honesty, I expect Bowe to end up somewhere where they pay him 10 million a year, all because Pioli wanted to pay him 8.

That's stupid.

Exactly. The difference between what he wants and what the Chiefs want to pay him will be some stupid ass Kevin Curtis type signing each year.

People want to act like its a contract that will hamstring the organization for the next decade, when in reality the extra money for that "blank check" will annually only be the difference between journeyman scrub A, and young scrub B.

[BossChief]

Good players hit the open market. It's part of football.

I'm sure the team has a reasonable offer on the table and I think they will get a deal done before the deadline.

If they don't, I think that's more Bowe than Pioli.

[Hammock Parties]

Good players hit the open market. It's part of football.


So is losing, and we love it.

[Two-Twenty]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120404-jerry-jones-admits-cowboys-overpaid-for-cornerback-brandon-carr.ece

Jerry Jones admits Cowboys overpaid for cornerback Brandon Carr

The Cowboys needed secondary help, so they went out and signed Chiefs cornerback Brandon Carr to a lucrative $50.1 million deal, with roughly half that money guaranteed. Locking that much money up with one player will almost always lead to questions from Cowboys fans about whether the team overpaid.
But according to DallasCowboys.com writer Rob Phillips, Jerry Jones has already answered that question for fans, admitting that he overpaid for Carr,* before backtracking on his previous statement.
"We know we overpaid to get Carr," Jones said at the NFL meetings. "Not overpay -- we paid retail."

Whether you believe Jones or not, most would agree that the Cowboys locked up money in a position that they desperately need to fill. Cortland Finnegan, another Cowboys free agent target, cost the Rams $50 million ($27 million was guaranteed) -- so maybe the Cowboys did overpay for Carr after all.

So yeah...

[jspchief]

well, when you look at it that way...lol

All I'm saying is that I have no problem in paying Bowe. He might even be the best WR we've ever had. But he shouldn't get Fitzgerald money or Calvin Johnson money if thats what he is demanding. I'd be totally cool with giving him a $60-70 mill deal, but not any 100 mill deal, no way.

For the record, based on the original post, him wanting Megatron money is pure speculation. There's a tweet that says Bowe wants "big" money, and an unrelated tweet that lists Megatrons numbers.

Is there any actual info that says Bowe is asking for a comparable contract?

[BossChief]

I don't see them letting Bowe walk, especially with the cap floor coming into place next year.

They also have the cash cap to think about.

The only reason they would let Bowe walk is if his demands are unrealistic.

[J Diddy]

Calvin Johnson dropped 7 balls last year. Bowe dropped 10.

The year before it was 6 and 8.

Hell, Calvin Johnson once dropped 13 passes in a year.

Are any of those in the end zone that would have won us the game?

[NJChiefsFan]

Are any of those in the end zone that would have won us the game?

Technically yes although most would argue the one Calvin dropped was a bad call.

[BossChief]

He signed Brady Quinn to compete at quarterback this offseason.

He drafted a piece of shit Poe.

He brings it on himself.

Brady Quinn was signed to help integrate the playbook and coaching style while pushing Stanzi.

All in all, I still think this is Cassels last stand and that a change will be made to Stanzi sometime this year.

Most likely during game 6.

As for Poe...

If Pioli and Crennel missed on him, that will be the first time they missed on a first round DL.

Seymour
Wilfork
Warren
Jackson

That pick has a.chance to be extremely good.

[NJChiefsFan]

He signed Brady Quinn to compete at quarterback this offseason.

He drafted a piece of shit Poe.

He brings it on himself.

Pioli has obviously been terrible with the QB situation thus far. As far as everything else roster-wise, not so bad. Especially contract situations. Now he has made a major draft mistake in Jackson(where we got him, he actually isn't bad now as most would agree I imagine). So if you want to use that to judge Poe already ok I guess, although I think that is also using his failure at the QB position to judge him in this debate.

On a full view the QB situation is certainly enough in the end to be his undoing. Thats not what we are looking at here though. Its not about saying should he be here, its about seeing if we think he will do the right thing with Bowe. Considering Jackson was one of his few non-QB mistakes, and that there really haven't been any contract mistakes, I am not really going to throw him under the bus for this. Especially when it hasn't even played out yet.

Now as I said, if one wishes to rip him for future QB moves just based off the past, go ahead. I as well fully expect even more QB mistakes in the future. I figure we can look forward to Matt starting almost no matter what, and that even if he does come out Stanzi won't get the shot. Now certainly that goes on the coach, but it also falls on the GM for blocking the young QB with an average backup, assuming Quinn really hasn't been insanely unlucky so far. I also don't doubt that he won't get rid of Cassel next offseason. But in just trying to figure out how he will handle Bowe, I don't think we allow ourselves a proper guess by letting his QB decisions lead us to our final guess here.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

He signed Brady Quinn to compete at quarterback this offseason.

He drafted a piece of shit Poe.
He brings it on himself.

Like you have a clue about evaluating college players ROFL

[BoneKrusher]

His play on the field justifies that level of pay.

Cassel and Jackson are just examples of where this organization is wasting money that could go to a deserving player.

agreed.

[Ace Gunner]

Brady Quinn was signed to help integrate the playbook and coaching style while pushing Stanzi.

All in all, I still think this is Cassels last stand and that a change will be made to Stanzi sometime this year.

Most likely during game 6.

As for Poe...

If Pioli and Crennel missed on him, that will be the first time they missed on a first round DL.

Seymour
Wilfork
Warren
Jackson

That pick has a.chance to be extremely good.


Good points. I do not expect to see Cassel benched this season unless the team is out of the playoffs. I'd expect they go with Brady Quinn next.

Poe should be a good player after a few seasons, he doesn't have much technique right now. For this season, I expect them to use him as a pass rusher DE more than anything.

Dwayne Bowe can negotiate with other teams right now, he can initiate a trade without the "2 first round picks" a franchise tag requires, because he's not actually franchised until he signs the franchise contract.

The Chiefs can still sign Dwayne Bowe to a long term contract. This window is open until the 16th of this month. But, this also means they can trade him for any compensation they choose if they get Bowe to sign a contract other than the franchised type.

From ESPN;

"Deadline for long-term deals: Franchise players have until July 16 to sign their franchise players to long-term contracts. The date is usually July 15, but it is the 16th this year because the 15th falls on a Sunday. Past that date, teams can sign their franchise players only to one-year deals. They cannot reach extensions until after their final regular-season games."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/53912/a-few-quick-notes-on-2012-franchise-tags

[Reerun_KC]

I wont be paying a fucking dime to Bowe and really dont give a shit what they pay him...

He isnt on my financial balance sheet. So he can basically go fuck himself...

[MahiMike]

Never. We are the Patriots of the midwest. Once they get that expensive, we move on.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Never. We are the Patriots of the midwest. Once they get that expensive, we move on.

Uh, a little light in the hardware department to be making that claim. Yeah, it would sure suck to have 3 titles :rolleyes:

[scho63]

He is currently at $9mm for the year. So 8 yrs at his current pay scale would be $72mm

Let's give him a 20-25% raise and we are now at $10.8-$11.25mm or roughly $86-90mm.

That's not even close to $120-130mm

I wouldn't go past $95mm

[Chiefnj2]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120404-jerry-jones-admits-cowboys-overpaid-for-cornerback-brandon-carr.ece


The Cowboys needed secondary help, so they went out and signed Chiefs cornerback Brandon Carr to a lucrative $50.1 million deal, with roughly half that money guaranteed.

. Cortland Finnegan, another Cowboys free agent target, cost the Rams $50 million ($27 million was guaranteed) -- so maybe the Cowboys did overpay for Carr after all.



Does that make sense? If Finnegan got the same deal as Carr, why does the writer say Carr was overpaid?

[Rausch]

He is currently at $9mm for the year. So 8 yrs at his current pay scale would be $72mm

Let's give him a 20-25% raise and we are now at $10.8-$11.25mm or roughly $86-90mm.

That's not even close to $120-130mm

I wouldn't go past $95mm

The question is who can we get that can play at his level in the next 2 years?

We won't attract a high priced FA with Casshole.

Will. Not. Happen.

Once again: KC will have to overpay to get talent that will sign for less elsewhere. Until we've won a SB it's going to stay that way...

[jspchief]

Does that make sense? If Finnegan got the same deal as Carr, why does the writer say Carr was overpaid?

Not really.

It's like Jones said. They paid "retail".

The problem is the Chiefs only buy bargains, and they've conditioned the fans to think its the only way.

[DTLB58]

Bowe is good, but he's not Fitzgerald/Megatron good.

Exactly. He needs to be in the next tier down. I agree with the Roddy White/Vincent Jackson deals. I would say no more than $10 million a season.

Now if I were Bowe, I would want the hell out of KC if they aren't providing me a better QB. So I don't blame him if he eventually forces himself out of KC.

But I would be pissed as hell at Pioli for not keeping Bowe or Carr and not changing the QB situation to want him to stay and bring a championship to KC.

[Chiefnj2]

I don't know why people focus on the big number given out by agents - 8 years 130 million. That's monopoly money. The entire contract is never going to be realized by anyone. You look at the guaranteed money in the first three years. After that, everything is renegotiated/restructured.

Johnson - 50 mil guaranteed.
Fitz - 42 - 50 guaranteed.
Jackson - 37 mil first three years.
Johnson - 24 mil first three years.

[qabbaan]

Laughing at you Internet twerps who KNOW that Poe is a piece of garbage and a bust already. You'll probably own jerseys eventually.

[durtyrute]

Kidding, of course. Although I wouldn't mind trading Bowe for a future first round draft pick with the hope of trading up for a legit QB in next year's draft.

We have a first round Qb now.

[Messier]

Not really.

It's like Jones said. They paid "retail".

The problem is the Chiefs only buy bargains, and they've conditioned the fans to think its the only way.

That's not exactly true. The Chiefs do look for signing FA that are under the radar but that can get comparable production to higher profile FA. The Chiefs didn't resign their own players to bargain deals, but no one really cares or notices when you resign your own players.

[JD10367]

which doesn't actually mean anything...

so what's your point, that every player on those teams that didn't make the superbowl is non-essential, or just WRs for some random reason?

Quick, name a top-flight NFL receiver who's won a Super Bowl who isn't named Jerry Rice (who was surrounded by other all-world talent like some guys named Montana and Clark and others).

Point being, "stud WR" is an overrated stat. And "overpaid stud WR" is even worse. One WR does not make a team. And paying out the ass for said WR just means you get to watch a very expensive guy run down the field and not get the ball.

Given the OP guidelines (8 years at $12.5-$16M), you sign him to that and you're on cheap crack.

[Ace Gunner]

Quick, name a top-flight NFL receiver who's won a Super Bowl who isn't named Jerry Rice (who was surrounded by other all-world talent like some guys named Montana and Clark and others).

Point being, "stud WR" is an overrated stat. And "overpaid stud WR" is even worse. One WR does not make a team. And paying out the ass for said WR just means you get to watch a very expensive guy run down the field and not get the ball.

Given the OP guidelines (8 years at $12.5-$16M), you sign him to that and you're on cheap crack.

(in the past decade alone)

Victor Cruz
Hines Ward
Plaxico Burress
Reggie Wayne
Greg Jennings
Troy Vincent

All studs, all caught at least one TD pass during the championship win. All had kill seasons/playoffs leading to the big game.

[Brock]

(in the past decade alone)

Victor Cruz
Hines Ward
Plaxico Burress
Reggie Wayne
Greg Jennings
Troy Vincent
Santonio Holmes

All studs, all caught at least one TD pass during the championship win. All had kill seasons/playoffs leading to the big game.

fyp

[Ebolapox]

(in the past decade alone)

Victor Cruz
Hines Ward
Plaxico Burress
Reggie Wayne
Greg Jennings
Troy Vincent

All studs, all caught at least one TD pass during the championship win. All had kill seasons/playoffs leading to the big game.

wasn't troy vincent a cornerback?

as to your list...

1) victor cruz has exactly one year of great production. let's give him a year or two before we put him on any of these lists.
2) hines ward...yeah, he's not a top-flight WR. he's a gritty, down the middle third down type target, but he's not a dominator
3) plaxico burress...I'll give you this one
4) reggie wayne...sure, if I'm being generous
5) greg jennings...sure, but like the last two, I'm not sure I'd put him in that top 3-4, upper-echelon.
6) troy vincent obviously doesn't work for previously stated reasons.

[HemiEd]

No way. We need to save that money to sign next year's garbage pile players to one year contracts.

What's the point of suffering through years of crap talent while they build the team from scratch, if they aren't willing to spend to keep the talent they find in the process? Since we didn't build a winner during the window of those rookie contracts, are we going to tear it down again and start over?

We haven't won a playoff game in half a century, but by god look how good we are with the salary cap.

Carl Peterson is proud of you guys.

Exactly, I am still pissed about them not paying Carr. Yeah, I know, he was a Cowboy fan but he should have been given enough $$ to sign anyway.

[Two-Twenty]

Does that make sense? If Finnegan got the same deal as Carr, why does the writer say Carr was overpaid?

The writer claims Jerry Jones himself says he overpaid for Brandon Carr.

[Ace Gunner]

fyp


wasn't troy vincent a cornerback?

as to your list...

1) victor cruz has exactly one year of great production. let's give him a year or two before we put him on any of these lists.
2) hines ward...yeah, he's not a top-flight WR. he's a gritty, down the middle third down type target, but he's not a dominator
3) plaxico burress...I'll give you this one
4) reggie wayne...sure, if I'm being generous
5) greg jennings...sure, but like the last two, I'm not sure I'd put him in that top 3-4, upper-echelon.
6) troy vincent obviously doesn't work for previously stated reasons.

Oops, I meant Troy BROWN, Patriots.

You better call Hines a 'stud' or he'll come for ya :D

Point with this was to say the #1 WR does help in the big game. During big big games, if your offense can get one TD out of the star receiver, it takes the edge off an otherwise typically menacing defense (since all teams at this level of post season play have good defense) and opens up the pass game to other players. Plus, of course, it opens up the run game.

[the Talking Can]

Quick, name a top-flight NFL receiver who's won a Super Bowl who isn't named Jerry Rice (who was surrounded by other all-world talent like some guys named Montana and Clark and others).

Point being, "stud WR" is an overrated stat. And "overpaid stud WR" is even worse. One WR does not make a team. And paying out the ass for said WR just means you get to watch a very expensive guy run down the field and not get the ball.

Given the OP guidelines (8 years at $12.5-$16M), you sign him to that and you're on cheap crack.

huh?....'stud WR' isn't a stat, it's just a description...I have no clue what you are babbling about, but it is nonsense

it's football, 'one [anything]' doesn't make a team (other than QB)...your 'argument' applies to everyone, and no one

as for WRs who have won Superbowl's, are you seriously asking this?

Irvin
Harrison
Bruce
Ward
Fitzgerald (sure as hell wasn't his fault they lost)

pretty much every team in the superbowl, win or lose has a WR with stats identical to Bowe...hell, some had two (Colts, Giants)

we've only got 1 (and a piece of shit QB to boot), and you all have predictably already rationalized letting him walk to save Clark's precious money (the true fan's only true desire)...

[BoneKrusher]

we've only got 1 (and a piece of shit QB to boot), and you all have predictably already rationalized letting him walk to save Clark's precious money (the true fan's only true desire)...

Rep!

[Quesadilla Joe]

Quick, name a top-flight NFL receiver who's won a Super Bowl who isn't named Jerry Rice (who was surrounded by other all-world talent like some guys named Montana and Clark and others).

Point being, "stud WR" is an overrated stat. And "overpaid stud WR" is even worse. One WR does not make a team. And paying out the ass for said WR just means you get to watch a very expensive guy run down the field and not get the ball.

Given the OP guidelines (8 years at $12.5-$16M), you sign him to that and you're on cheap crack.

IF IT DIDN'T WORK FOR THE PATRIOTS IT WON'T WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE! BELICHECK KNOWS ALL! THE PATRIOT WAY!!!!!!!/cheatriot fans

[Dayze]

time for Clark to open up the pocket book. he's saved so much money the last 3+ years it's time to pay. Clark/Scooter......uh, it takes some cash to keep good players.

yeah, he's signed DJ, JC, TH...etc. BFD. need more than 3 studs on a team. He goes, this team has virtually no shot.

People that think teams will stack the box and stop the run, ain't seen nothing yet if Bowe is gone.

[Ebolapox]

Oops, I meant Troy BROWN, Patriots.

You better call Hines a 'stud' or he'll come for ya :D

Point with this was to say the #1 WR does help in the big game. During big big games, if your offense can get one TD out of the star receiver, it takes the edge off an otherwise typically menacing defense (since all teams at this level of post season play have good defense) and opens up the pass game to other players. Plus, of course, it opens up the run game.

troy brown was never a top flight WR. the problem here is perspective and how we classify WRs. None of the guys, save a few of them at very select times, has EVER been a "Jerry Rice" type WR. none of them are all-time greats that are, at some point, top 3 in their position.

your premise is correct, though, that having a 'top-flight' WR (top 5-10) can open up the pass game for other players does pass the eye test.

[JD10367]

IF IT DIDN'T WORK FOR THE PATRIOTS IT WON'T WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE! BELICHECK KNOWS ALL! THE PATRIOT WAY!!!!!!!/cheatriot fans

I'M A DOUCHEBAG WITH NOTHING TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION!!!!! /you

[Dayze]

I'M A DOUCHEBAG WITH NOTHING TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION!!!!! /you

LMAO....."/you

[Dayze]

The Clarks need to pony up.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

DBowe is worth north of 10 million. All WR's drop the ball on occasion. He's stepped up his game over the last year or two and seems focused. He doesn't fuck around, he doesn't get himself in trouble, and he makes spectacular grabs. He's a legit number 1, and a top ten receiver in the league if not better. Fuck, look who has been throwing him the football.

6 years - $69 million with $35 million guaranteed. I'd do that in a heartbeat. I just don't think the guy is a contract player. I think he'll remain solid, and has years of production ahead of him.

[Brock]

Unfortunately, we haven't tripped over our own feet and fallen ass-backwards into a HOF quarterback, so I think we should dispense with the patriot way BS.

[DeezNutz]

First we need to build the lines. Once they're stocked with Pro-Bowlers, then we can shore up the TE position. Adding another midget or two out of the backfield would also be wise.

After these are accomplished, then it would be prudent to think about re-signing a WR.

[BossChief]

One things for sure.

If we can't get him inked to a ltd, we should trade him to someone who can.

Even if it's for only a couple second rounders or a late first.

No sense in even keeping him for his franchise year only to let him walk after it.

Get something for him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

First we need to build the lines. Once they're stocked with Pro-Bowlers, then we can shore up the TE position. Adding another midget or two out of the backfield would also be wise.

After these are accomplished, then it would be prudent to think about re-signing a WR.

LMAO

[BossChief]

First we need to build the lines. Once they're stocked with Pro-Bowlers, then we can shore up the TE position. Adding another midget or two out of the backfield would also be wise.

After these are accomplished, then it would be prudent to think about re-signing a WR.

At what point in negotiations would you stop raising your offer in hopes of signing Bowe to a ltd?

How much guaranteed $ and total amount do you consider "enough"?

[Thig Lyfe]

I'd pay him that much if he could bring me Matt Cassel's scalp.

[qabbaan]

Its a hard question to answer.

If we were going to spend $10 million a year we'd save on Bowe improving the team, I'd say cut him loose - but we won't do that. We will continue trying to win with Matt Cassel and a bunch of average to above average players. As long as Cassel is QB, it would be a waste of the owner's money.

If we are going to remain committed to two more seasons of Cassel with no meaningful competition, which is my sneaking suspicion, we should trade him for picks.

[Hammock Parties]

How many people, when Carr wasn't signed, said "aw, that's OK, they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe?"

[BoneKrusher]

How many people, when Carr wasn't signed, said "aw, that's OK, they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe?"

that's exactly why i didn't bitch about Carr leaving.

[Ace Gunner]

troy brown was never a top flight WR. the problem here is perspective and how we classify WRs. None of the guys, save a few of them at very select times, has EVER been a "Jerry Rice" type WR. none of them are all-time greats that are, at some point, top 3 in their position.

your premise is correct, though, that having a 'top-flight' WR (top 5-10) can open up the pass game for other players does pass the eye test.

Ya, he was talking "stud" and to me, those players were studly during the season their team was champ. I'm in agreement btw with your sidenotes to my first comment. I was not calling any of those guys elite etc, just that they each played a studly role in getting to and winning the championship. Reggie Wayne had Marv that one season there, so Marv was the elite guy in the mix imo. Troy Brown played well every year practically, though never great. He played both ways (wr/cb) during one of those champ years, he was a stud.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How many people, when Carr wasn't signed, said "aw, that's OK, they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe?"

Nearly everyone here.

[DeezNutz]

At what point in negotiations would you stop raising your offer in hopes of signing Bowe to a ltd?

How much guaranteed $ and total amount do you consider "enough"?

As I stated a couple of times in this thread, the overall number 120-130 is complete bullshit and will never be realized.

$35M guaranteed wouldn't be out of step with what the market has established. However, Pioli has shown an ability to get team-friendly deals done.

[Setsuna]

No.

[Brock]

How many people, when Carr wasn't signed, said "aw, that's OK, they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe?"

Don't you mean "it's ok, AS LONG AS they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe"?

[HemiEd]

One things for sure.

If we can't get him inked to a ltd, we should trade him to someone who can.

Even if it's for only a couple second rounders or a late first.

No sense in even keeping him for his franchise year only to let him walk after it.

Get something for him.

The fact that we have to rationalize the possibility of this team not signing him is clear evidence of what is wrong with this franchise.

DBowe is the best wide receiver this team has EVER had IMO.

[BossChief]

As I stated a couple of times in this thread, the overall number 120-130 is complete bullshit and will never be realized.

$35M guaranteed wouldn't be out of step with what the market has established. However, Pioli has shown an ability to get team-friendly deals done.

So, you're saying you would sign him to a contract you don't intend to fully honor?

That's bad business.

I'd give up fair market value, maybe go over by 10%...but that's it.

About 11/yr with half fully guaranteed.

[DeezNutz]

Nearly everyone here.

Those who didn't were the ones saying that we had/have enough money to sign both.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Those who didn't were the ones saying that we had/have enough money to sign both.

Yep.

[DeezNutz]

So, you're saying you would sign him to a contract you don't intend to fully honor?

That's bad business.

What? You think Fitz is going to see $120M?

[DeezNutz]

Bowe will be 28 this fall. So let's say he's signed to an 8 year, $140M deal. He's only going to see the first three, maybe four, years of that deal because he'll be an aging, descending player soon.

That's not bad business; that's called life in the NFL. And this is also how a lot of dipshits go broke. They somehow believe that the have $140M or whatever headline material the dollar amount is. No matter that anyone with common sense realizes the figure is never coming to fruition.

[Thig Lyfe]

The fact that we have to rationalize the possibility of this team not signing him is clear evidence of what is wrong with this franchise.

DBowe is the best wide receiver this team has EVER had IMO.

What about Andre Rison, dogg?

[Brock]

So, you're saying you would sign him to a contract you don't intend to fully honor?

That's bad business.

Gasp! Teams don't actually do this, do they?

[Chiefnj2]

So, you're saying you would sign him to a contract you don't intend to fully honor?

That's bad business.


You realize this happens on every single team, don't you? Everyone knows that the non-guaranteed money in nfl contracts is basically meaningless outside the first three/four years.

[Dave Lane]

Need to know how the contract is structured. If year 6 7 and 8 are 20 million a year then sure,

[BigMeatballDave]

What? You think Fitz is going to see $120M?

When you see a contract figure of 120-140m, I'm thinking the guaranteed figure is 50-60m.

That's what most are thinking. That's why I said no way.

[HemiEd]

What about Andre Rison, dogg?

ROFL

I was ready for someone to bring up Otis Taylor, the guy we all love, but not Andre Rison.

[DeezNutz]

When you see a contract figure of 120-140m, I'm thinking the guaranteed figure is 50-60m.

That's what most are thinking. That's why I said no way.

He's not going to get paid like Fitz or Megatron, but Bowe is a #1 WR, and he should get paid like one.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

He's not going to get paid like Fitz or Megatron, but Bowe is a #1 WR, and he should get paid like one.

Exactly. If he's stuck on those figures it's because he wants out of town. Plain and simple. A 5-6 year deal worth 11-12 a year with half of it guaranteed should be pretty easy to get done if he has any interest in playing here.

[Chiefnj2]

Calvin got 50 guaranteed.
Fitz was between 42 and 50 guaranteed. Article I saw said 42, but there was an additional 8 "hidden" somewhere.

D. Jax gets 35 or so guaranteed in the first 3 years.

Bowe should be offered 38-40 guaranteed for the first 3 years, and then a reasonable base salary for year 4.

[BigMeatballDave]

He's not going to get paid like Fitz or Megatron, but Bowe is a #1 WR, and he should get paid like one.

I agree.

6 or 60.

35+ guaranteed.

[DeezNutz]

I agree.

6 for 60.

35+ guaranteed.

Why do we care about the number of years and total dollars when they're immaterial?

The only thing that matters is guaranteed dollars, and what you've suggested sounds fine.

[Chiefnj2]

1 week to get the long term deal done.

[Lzen]

I'd pay him that much if he could bring me Matt Cassel's scalp.

ROFL

[Lzen]

6 years - $69 million with $35 million guaranteed. I'd do that in a heartbeat. I just don't think the guy is a contract player. I think he'll remain solid, and has years of production ahead of him.

I'd be all for that. The question is does Bowe go for it.

[BigMeatballDave]

1 week to get the long term deal done.

Yep.

This rule of not negotiating a new deal during the season is dumb.

At least they can Tag him again next year.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Yep.

This rule of not negotiating a new deal during the season is dumb.

At least they can Tag him again next year.

That rule will actually help the Chiefs work out a long term deal. It takes a lot of leverage away from Bowe. He can't threaten to hold out during training camp now. He either get s a deal worked out before the 15th or he's SOL until next offseason.

[BossChief]

He's not going to get paid like Fitz or Megatron, but Bowe is a #1 WR, and he should get paid like one.
His production is comparale to Megatron before last season.

One would think his agent would be fishing in the same area the last big one was caught.
Exactly. If he's stuck on those figures it's because he wants out of town. Plain and simple. A 5-6 year deal worth 11-12 a year with half of it guaranteed should be pretty easy to get done if he has any interest in playing here.
Exactly my point.

Nobody knows right now what the demands are for both sides of negotiations.

Pioli has shown the ability to get fair market deals done with our players...if Bowe wants more than what's reasonable, he can choose to walk and test the waters as a 29 year old receiver next offseason...or he could gamble and get hurt.

Also, something that's gone unmentioned tmk is his injury status.

He left the finale with injury...is it fully healed? Does it have a chance of being a problem going forward?

That's something to factor in if we are talking 35 million in guaranteed cash.

[DeezNutz]

His production is comparale to Megatron before last season.

One would think his agent would be fishing in the same area the last big one was caught.


Johnson is viewed as a generational athlete/freak at the position. Bowe is not in this uber-elite class.

For some reason, you seem fixated on the total publicized dollar amount, which is irrelevant.

[BossChief]

Johnson is viewed as a generational athlete/freak at the position. Bowe is not in this uber-elite class.

For some reason, you seem fixated on the total publicized dollar amount, which is irrelevant.
That's my point. He isn't in those guys class, but his first 5 years of production is and that's likely what his agent is using as his bait when he is fishing for a bigger deal than what makes sense.

Also, I know for a FACT that Bowe was pissed that he didnt get the exclusive brand of the franchise tag.

What does that tell you about his overinflated self worth?

Lets say Bowe wants a quasi "prorated" signing bonus thats equal to the % of stats he has in comparison to CJ in their 5 years in the league.


CJ
49 tds
5872 yards

Bowe
36 td
4927 yards

That means Bowe had roughly 85% of the yardage.

85% of 60 million is roughly 50 million.

He has roughly 75% of the tds...that equates to 45 million in guarantees.

So, let's throw out the 35 million in guarantees we are talking about and let's bump that up to between 45-50 million dollars in guarantees and a total of 100 over the same amount of years CJ got.

8 years, 100 million with 48 million guaranteed.

Would that be a contract you would applaud?

Personally, I think that's a spot on "educated guess" of what they are talking about behind closed doors in all of this.

Not sure Bowe is worth that type of deal, but we will see.

I think something between that deal and the one VJ got from Tampa would be fair, but it's hard to know what the demands are from each side.

[SAUTO]

Exactly. If he's stuck on those figures it's because he wants out of town. Plain and simple. A 5-6 year deal worth 11-12 a year with half of it guaranteed should be pretty easy to get done if he has any interest in playing here. this and this to the post you had quoted
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

If Bowe wants out of town, that's Pioli's fault, too.

[SAUTO]

If Bowe wants out of town, that's Pioli's fault, too.

Lol.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

Hey, it's true. Carl pretty much chased Jared Allen outta here.

Chased a fucking potential HOFer outta here.

How about that shit?

[Brock]

Hey, it's true. Carl pretty much chased Jared Allen outta here.

Chased a fucking potential HOFer outta here.

How about that shit?

Stupid comparison.

[O.city]

So I was reading on ESPN about Drew Brees and the Saints. If they don't get a long term deal worked out in the next week, he's likely gone next year. They would have to franchise him again ( which I don't understand why they couldn't jsut sign him next offseason) and it woudl cost them like 27 million dollars to do so.


I know it won't happen, but what would you give the Saints right now for the guy?

[BossChief]

If Bowe wants out of town, that's Pioli's fault, too.

Hey, it's true. Carl pretty much chased Jared Allen outta here.

Chased a fucking potential HOFer outta here.

How about that shit?

These are just stupid posts.

Perfect examples of why the majority of people here think you are a fool.

It's a shame, really.

[Hammock Parties]

It's Pioli's job to create an environment where our best player wants to stay, sorry.

[BossChief]

So I was reading on ESPN about Drew Brees and the Saints. If they don't get a long term deal worked out in the next week, he's likely gone next year. They would have to franchise him again ( which I don't understand why they couldn't jsut sign him next offseason) and it woudl cost them like 27 million dollars to do so.


I know it won't happen, but what would you give the Saints right now for the guy?

Bowe, Cassel and one "take your pick"

[Nightfyre]

Goatcheese, who can't even handle the responsiblity in his own life, is going to define the parameters of Pioli's job.

[Hammock Parties]

Goatcheese, who can't even handle the responsiblity in his own life, is going to define the parameters of Pioli's job.

What? Come on.

That's part of the GM's job. Carl sucked at it and we never attracted any big time FAs because of it.

[O.city]

Bowe, Cassel and one "take your pick"

I was thinking more draft picks if you could as it seems to be rare that players get traded for players in the NFL.


But I'd send Bowe and 3 firsts.


If they aren't going to resign him, I'd give them 3 firsts, 2 seconds right now and sign him to a long term deal.

[BossChief]

It's Pioli's job to create an environment where our best player wants to stay, sorry.

Charles re-signed.

So did Hali.

Piolis fail starts and ends with Matt Cassel and he has the remedy for that sickness already on the roster.

Saying Bowe is our best player isnt smart.

[Nightfyre]

What? Come on.

That's part of the GM's job. Carl sucked at it and we never attracted any big time FAs because of it.

You are not objective in any conversation about Scott Pioli. Pioli can't make Bowe want to stay or make Bowe want to sign a market deal here. That you can't grasp that concept states how completely braindead you are.

[Hammock Parties]

I err on the side of blaming him, sure, but that's because he's fucked up a lot of shit.

I have given him credit in the past. Gave him credit this offseason.

[Hammock Parties]

Saying Bowe is our best player isnt smart.

It's true. No one else has been as consistently good.

[BossChief]

What? Come on.

That's part of the GM's job. Carl sucked at it and we never attracted any big time FAs because of it.

Carl was abrasive where Scott obviously isn't at all.

If he was, we wouldn't have players taking market value left and right to stay in KC and also coming here as free agents.

Try a lot harder to be objective and people would respect you for more than gifd up.

[Hammock Parties]

Carl was abrasive where Scott obviously isn't at all.


Really? Remember his confrontation with the Detroit brass after we got our brains beat in?

He's a dick. A bald, fat, dick.

[BigMeatballDave]

It's true. No one else has been as consistently good.

JC

[Dayze]

Hey, I have one of those

[Hammock Parties]

JC

Nope. 1.5 good seasons to his name.

[O.city]

Tamba

[Hammock Parties]

Tamba

Close, but Bowe has had a better overall career.

[Marcellus]

It's true. No one else has been as consistently good.

You don't even believe the shit you type, you know you don't. If you do then you are as much a dumbass as Knowmo.

[Marcellus]

Close, but Bowe has had a better overall career.. ROFL

[BigMeatballDave]

Nope. 1.5 good seasons to his name.

So you're gonna fault him for Todd not recognizing his talent sooner and a knee injury?

I love Bowe, but Defenses gameplan for JC, not Bowe.

[Hammock Parties]

You don't even believe the shit you type, you know you don't. If you do then you are as much a dumbass as Knowmo.

Bowe has had 4 very, very good seasons.

I don't see any other Chiefs on the current roster who have done that.

[Hammock Parties]

So you're gonna fault him for Todd not recognizing his talent sooner and a knee injury?

I love Bowe, but Defenses gameplan for JC, not Bowe.

JC might surpass Bowe. He's not there yet. He certainly didn't lead the league in TD.