Penn State Student begin Vigil to protect Paterno Statue

[Mr. Laz]

July 19, 2012 10:51 AM
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Penn State students protect Paterno statue

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/07/19/Paterno_statue_AP5437590598_620x350.jpg

Kim Ranck touches the arm on the Joe Paterno statue
as she walks away in tears Wednesday, July 18, 2012.
(Nabil K. Mark,AP Photo/Centre Daily Times)

(CBS/AP) STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - Following calls for the removal of Joe Paterno's statue from the Penn State campus, some students have begun a vigil to protect the statute from vandals.

Seniors Mike Elliot and Kevin Berkon organized an impromptu gathering at the statue Tuesday after a plane flew over campus with a banner that read, "Take the statue down or we will."

Berkon said they were "extremely angry" about the message.

Elliot said police told them they couldn't sleep at the statue, but they were allowed to set up a tent — and they were willing to stay up all night if necessary.

He said the action wasn't intended as a protest but only to protect the statue from harm.

University police, who have an officer monitoring the statue, didn't return calls seeking comment.

A scathing report by former FBI director Louis Freeh last week concluded that Paterno helped cover up child sex abuse allegations against former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

The Freeh report has tarnished the bronze statue of Paterno that had been a rallying point for students in the months since Sandusky's November arrest touched off the scandal.

Earlier Tuesday, Penn State President Rodney Erickson said that no decision has been made on whether to take down the statue.

[Rain Man]

If they keep it, they should have to change the name to Ped State.

[listopencil]

The statue looks a bit more lively than Joe was for at least the last decade. Rather than vandalize it, I think someone should erect a second statue of Sandusky sodomizing a toddler in a shower stall right behind Paterno. Perfect placement.

[jspchief]

I like the post from another thread that said they should just turn the head on the statue so that Paterno would "look the other way".

[Ace Gunner]

The statue looks a bit more lively than Joe was for at least the last decade. Rather than vandalize it, I think someone should erect a second statue of Sandusky sodomizing a toddler in a shower stall right behind Paterno. Perfect placement.

He said erect:) That girl needs a spanking.

[listopencil]

He said erect:)

Heh, I was hoping someone would catch that.

[Garcia Bronco]

Penn State kids are laughable. Here is this joke of a man...who didn't even run the team the last decade to get some stupid record and to do it he let a pedo on campus along with other Penn State adminsitrators. Shameful.

Take it down yesterday.

[Frazod]

He said erect:) That girl needs a spanking.

I assume she's safe, being an adult female.

[jspchief]

College kids are embarrassingly out of touch sometimes.

[BoneKrusher]

i think they should change the Name Penn State to State Pen..

Just sayin.

[jAZ]

I sorta get how students rallied around Paterno as the allegations were emerging and even as he was fired. I thought it was outrageous, and would never have involved myself if I were there at the time. Child rape is far more important than any one football coach. But it was a bombshell and the whole story wasn't out like it is now

But a defense of Paterno at this point is revolting and shameful. You wonder how anyone could have stood by and watched or helped as Hitler killed millions of Jews, but this sort of brainwashed student response is as close as I remember seeing to something kinda, sort, not-really, but vaguely like that in my lifetime.

They are defending an icon and the legacy of a man who knowingly enabled and protected a child rapist. He did it to protect himself, his legacy, his job his friend, and the prominence of his football program.

It's a disgusting, shame-filled, endlessly inexcusable revolting story. And Paterno and his legacy should not be championed, but forever tarred with the image of a child rape.

Turn the site into a memorial for child victims and never let the campus, coaches administrators and the community forget what happens when you elevate a person to an untouchable status.

[vailpass]

I don't blame them.

[Graystoke]

I don't blame them.

Explain?

[vailpass]

Explain?

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

[Dragonocho]

You wonder how anyone could have stood by and watched or helped as Hitler killed millions of Jews, but this sort of brainwashed student response is as close as I remember seeing to something kinda, sort, not-really, but vaguely like that in my lifetime.


I hereby invoke Godwin's Law and declare this internet argument is concluded.

[Rain Man]

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

It seems like child rape is not the best tradition to embrace.

[Aries Walker]

*Sigh* Young people.

Wait until they get a little more life experience, watch a couple of their other heroes fall from grace, maybe get their heart savagely broken or be unceremoniously fired a few times. They'll be a little less willing to defend the popular local creep.

[Bambi]

Looks like the freshman 15 has officially turned into the freshman 30.

[jAZ]

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law and declare this internet argument is concluded.

There is a rare comparison to Hitler that is justified. And this one is not one. But child rape is among the most horrific things I can imagine. Until its on a scale of millions falls short. But it comes from the same evil corner of humanity.

[Dayze]

they need to take it down. He went from the face of the univeristy for all the right reasons, to a disgraced human being for allowing those things to go on.

The students wanting to keep it up because of his legacy GD football coach is unreal.

[Bugeater]

I'm guessing they'd feel differently if they had been plugged in the ass by some old creep when they were children.

[Ace Gunner]

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

So, a bubble with no morality? K:hmmm: you are joking:D

[Reerun_KC]

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

you silly child moslester... shame on you...

[vailpass]

It seems like child rape is not the best tradition to embrace.

Good thing that isn't what is happening here.

[vailpass]

you silly... shame on you...

Filter evasion. Please fix it. I haven't earned that accusation or association.

[gblowfish]

They just add PedoBear to the existing artwork and it's all good!
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ypmes9.jpg

[Garcia Bronco]

According to some insiders a decision will be made with the next two weeks on the statue and to expect it to come down and his name striken from the University in a number of places. Which I approve.

[Bowser]

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

Look at it like this - It will be a great life lesson for these kids that are either too stubborn or just too dumb to invoke common sense....

Choose your heroes a little more discerningly, kids.

[Easy 6]

Yeah, the constant whining & state of denial that many of those students, not to mention Paterno's family are in, is disgusting.

[VAChief]

I'm guessing they'd feel differently if they had been plugged in the ass by some old creep when they were children.

Or their little brother.

[BigMeatballDave]

College students wanting to keep their tradition, not allowing outside opinion to influence their college experience. Good for them.

Wow. Really?

I hope you're trolling here.

[Graystoke]

I feel bad for the students because they had nothing to do with this evil.
However I cannot wrap my mind why you would want a staute of the man who kept silent about child rape on your University.

[Dayze]

that ^. disgrace.

[the Talking Can]

that it even has to be discussed is proof that football has not been, for once second, less important that the reality of children being raped....

even now, concern for the 'program' remains paramount to those sick fucks

[HemiEd]

There is a rare comparison to Hitler that is justified. And this one is not one. But child rape is among the most horrific things I can imagine. Until its on a scale of millions falls short. But it comes from the same evil corner of humanity.

Your sig is offensive to me. Isn't it a little on the large side?

[Dragonocho]

There is a rare comparison to Hitler that is justified. And this one is not one. But child rape is among the most horrific things I can imagine. Until its on a scale of millions falls short. But it comes from the same evil corner of humanity.

I agree but I still really like Godwin's Law

[gblowfish]

If the JoPa statue stays, they should put a statue of Jerry Sandusky with a raging boner in the men's shower. Might as well embrace and own the culture, so to speak, right?

[the Talking Can]

they should replace the football players behind Paterno with scared children running from Sandusky

[mr. tegu]

The sad part is that these kids think they are being noble and fighting against some kind of injustice.

[the Talking Can]

they should simply replace paterno with sandusky...

[vailpass]

The sad part is that these kids think they are being noble and fighting against some kind of injustice.

What they probably think is "you want to fly a plane over our campus with a banner that tells us we have to take down our statue or you will? **** you. Let's see you try." this is a very college-age attitude and one I can fully understand and support.

This mob mentality has got to give way to rationale at some point. The righteous outrage at the heinous crimes committed against children must be focused with laser intensity on all who deserve it but on none that do not.

[the Talking Can]

What they probably think is "you want to fly a plane over our campus with a banner that tells us we have to take down our statue or you will? **** you. Let's see you try." this is a very college-age attitude and one I can fully understand and support.

This mob mentality has got to give way to rationale at some point. The righteous outrage at the heinous crimes committed against children must be focused with laser intensity on all who deserve it but on none that do not.

horseshit

the program was infected with cowardice...it should be shut down for several years...

but football matters more, so it will live...this is just a bump in the road

[vailpass]

horseshit

the program was infected with cowardice...it should be shut down for several years...

but football matters more, so it will live...this is just a bump in the road

What exactly will make you happy here? How many people that had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes would need to be punished to satisfy your misplaced outrage?

[luv]

Paterno knew, but did nothing to stop. I understand this. However, he was not the one who molested children. I do believe he made several monetary donations to the university, and he was a huge part in building the program. Even if the statue doesn't stay by the stadium, perhaps it should stand by the library. Didn't he basically pay for it?

[gblowfish]

Well, if the statue is going to stay, I say we give JoPa a raging boner, and instead of leading the team onto the field, we put pictures of screaming, terrified kids on the wall behind him. I'd be OK with that, you know, if the statue is going to stay put and all....

http://i48.tinypic.com/21j865s.gif

[Bowser]

Paterno knew, but did nothing to stop. I understand this. However, he was not the one who molested children. I do believe he made several monetary donations to the university, and he was a huge part in building the program. Even if the statue doesn't stay by the stadium, perhaps it should stand by the library. Didn't he basically pay for it?

That shouldn't matter in light of the findings. Paterno is much of an embarassment to that school as Sandusky. He knew and chose not to act.

[Mr. Laz]

Paterno knew, but did nothing to stop. I understand this. However, he was not the one who molested children. I do believe he made several monetary donations to the university, and he was a huge part in building the program. Even if the statue doesn't stay by the stadium, perhaps it should stand by the library. Didn't he basically pay for it?

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT
Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

[gblowfish]

"Well, in Joe Paterno's defense, it WAS a REALLY BIG check." - PSU Administration

[mr. tegu]

What they probably think is "you want to fly a plane over our campus with a banner that tells us we have to take down our statue or you will? **** you. Let's see you try." this is a very college-age attitude and one I can fully understand and support.

This mob mentality has got to give way to rationale at some point. The righteous outrage at the heinous crimes committed against children must be focused with laser intensity on all who deserve it but on none that do not.

By supporting Paterno and being in defense of his statue the way they are, they are no long part of the group that does not deserve criticism and embarrasment.

[VAChief]

What exactly will make you happy here? How many people that had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes would need to be punished to satisfy your misplaced outrage?

I wouldn't say removing a bronze statue of someone who enabled a child molester for decades is a punishment for anyone, but the sad ass legacy he left behind.

[vailpass]

I wouldn't say removing a bronze statue of someone who enabled a child molester for decades is a punishment for anyone, but the sad ass legacy he left behind.

There is some vitriol directed toward the students in this thread. In other threads there is a lot of backward-ass lashing out at students, faculty, alumni, athletes.

[Bump]

I would have been out of that university and transferred to another school the second I heard that they all covered it up, so many people to avoid losing money and allowed child rape to continue. The entire campus should just be burned down if you ask me, not just a statue.

But any student who would defend Paterno, wow, I just don't understand it. What is their argument? "he didnt actually rape the kids, he just knew about it and allowed it to go on and on." wtf is wrong with these people?

[vailpass]

I would have been out of that university and transferred to another school the second I heard that they all covered it up, so many people to avoid losing money and allowed child rape to continue. The entire campus should just be burned down if you ask me, not just a statue.

But any student who would defend Paterno, wow, I just don't understand it. What is their argument? "he didnt actually rape the kids, he just knew about it and allowed it to go on and on." wtf is wrong with these people?

Here is a good example of the rational and sane discourse to which I'm referring.

[luv]

That shouldn't matter in light of the findings. Paterno is much of an embarassment to that school as Sandusky. He knew and chose not to act.

Yes, I know. It's just so sad to see 50+ years of good go into the shitter from one bad decision. I guess it doesn't really matter now. I'm sure he's answered to his higher power for his mistakes.

[vailpass]

By supporting Paterno and being in defense of his statue the way they are, they are no long part of the group that does not deserve criticism and embarrasment.

Oh for Christ's sake.

[jd1020]

I would think that Penn State would want to rid themselves of all thing Paterno. Pretty amazing how a community is supporting him after all of this.

[Bowser]

Yes, I know. It's just so sad to see 50+ years of good go into the shitter from one bad decision. I guess it doesn't really matter now. I'm sure he's answered to his higher power for his mistakes.

The sad part about it is that it didn't have to be this way. This was all on Paterno, and he chose wrongly. Very wrongly.

Everyone everywhere makes mistakes, but a mistake of this magnitude just can't be brushed aside, no matter how much good he did before this. Just my opinion.

[jd1020]

Yes, I know. It's just so sad to see 50+ years of good go into the shitter from one bad decision. I guess it doesn't really matter now. I'm sure he's answered to his higher power for his mistakes.

I would say it's more than one bad decision. Rumored now that they had known about this going on for 14 years? Come on. Thats a disgrace to the school.

[BigMeatballDave]

What exactly will make you happy here? How many people that had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes would need to be punished to satisfy your misplaced outrage?

Remove everything associated with the previous scumbags.

[luv]

I would say it's more than one bad decision. Rumored now that they had known about this going on for 14 years? Come on. Thats a disgrace to the school.

Kind of makes you wonder how things would be different if he'd retired 20 years prior like he probably should have.

[VAChief]

Yes, I know. It's just so sad to see 50+ years of good go into the shitter from one bad decision. I guess it doesn't really matter now. I'm sure he's answered to his higher power for his mistakes.

Yes, sad...It was a series of bad decisions that ruined many lives. Respect him as a coach, but I have no problem with the disdain he and the university higher ups are receiving for letting this horror show happen.

If the janitor at your son's, nephews, or little brother's school raped them and the principal knew about it and failed to report it and others were raped and abused as result would it really matter to you all the other good deeds the principal had done?

The PR calculating these guys in the know went through in weighing what to do is just mind-boggling. It should not have even been a discussion. It was a no-brainer and they failed miserably.

[vailpass]

Yes, sad...It was a series of bad decisions that ruined many lives. Respect him as a coach, but I have no problem with the disdain he and the university higher ups are receiving for letting this horror show happen.

If the janitor at your son's, nephews, or little brother's school raped them and the principal knew about it and failed to report it and others were raped and abused as result would it really matter to you all the other good deeds the principal had done?

The PR calculating these guys in the know went through in weighing what to do is just mind-boggling. It should not have even been a discussion. It was a no-brainer and they failed miserably.

Yep.

[mr. tegu]

Oh for Christ's sake.

You disagree? They don't deserve any critiicism? I agree people at the school that have/had nothing to do with the whole thing should not be punished, embarrassed or removed from their jobs, etc. BUT the students that are taking this stance are no longer well removed from the situation or have nothing to do with it and therefore do not get a pass on their behavior.

They have made decisions to support Paterno, and now must deal with the attention, much of it negative. These students are the same ones who would have been ignoring what was going on at the school had they been employed by the school or otherwise known about the things going on there, all to preserve precious Paterno's and the program's legacy.

[vailpass]

You disagree? They don't deserve any critiicism? I agree people at the school that have/had nothing to do with the whole thing should not be punished, embarrassed or removed from their jobs, etc. BUT the students that are taking this stance are no longer well removed from the situation or have nothing to do with it and therefore do not get a pass on their behavior.

They have made decisions to support Paterno, and now must deal with the attention, much of it negative. These students are the same ones who would have been ignoring what was going on at the school had they been employed by the school or otherwise known about the things going on there, all to preserve precious Paterno's and the program's legacy.

IMHO college students are to be viewed in their own light taking into account their age, social situation and the insular world in which they live. Their motivations are different from those which you are attributing to them, generally speaking. Some people want the evil to splash onto them in order to make themselves feel better. I do not.

The last sentence in your post is vicious, untrue, and uncalled for. It's part of the mob mentality that needs to be reigned in.

[Rain Man]

The issue with Paterno for me is less about child molestation and more about operating with absolute power and impunity without regard for justice. Those people knew they were doing the wrong thing and they used their extreme power to protect their own interests. And this wasn't a gray area. This was 1,000 statute miles across the bright line of good and bad.

[chiefzilla1501]

You disagree? They don't deserve any critiicism? I agree people at the school that have/had nothing to do with the whole thing should not be punished, embarrassed or removed from their jobs, etc. BUT the students that are taking this stance are no longer well removed from the situation or have nothing to do with it and therefore do not get a pass on their behavior.

They have made decisions to support Paterno, and now must deal with the attention, much of it negative. These students are the same ones who would have been ignoring what was going on at the school had they been employed by the school or otherwise known about the things going on there, all to preserve precious Paterno's and the program's legacy.

Good post. Agreed. Anybody protecting Paterno at this point is an absolute embarrassment. That being said, I think vailpass is ripping on the people who think this means students protesting deserve punishment. I think these protestors are despicable human beings, but that doesn't mean they should be punished for that.

I'd also point out that this is probably as much an indictment on sports fans as it is Penn State fans. I bet there are a ton of sports markets where fans would do something similar, which is sad but true.

[vailpass]

Good post. Agreed. Anybody protecting Paterno at this point is an absolute embarrassment. That being said, I think vailpass is ripping on the people who think this means students protesting deserve punishment. I think these protestors are despicable human beings, but that doesn't mean they should be punished for that.

I'd also point out that this is probably as much an indictment on sports fans as it is Penn State fans. I bet there are a ton of sports markets where fans would do something similar, which is sad but true.

You agree that not wanting the statue torn down means the students would allow and condone child molestation?

[Rams Fan]

The entire campus should just be burned down if you ask me, not just a statue.



That's a bit of an overreaction.

[Passepartout]

Yeah as how about protecting those kids and their families is what I am more worried about! Let's think about that and them. Who's lives are changed forever!

[BigMeatballDave]

Why have something standing that represents the vile shitbags?

[Jerm]

They should carpet bomb the area of the statue and whatever dumbass students are around it, so what.

What a bunch of frickin morons.

[mr. tegu]

You agree that not wanting the statue torn down means the students would allow and condone child molestation?

Not as students but as employees of the institution with their own interest in mind as well as the programs interest which is to cover up what was happening to protect their program's legacy and that of the coach.

They would be the first candidates if in that situation to have been the ones turning their heads and letting it all happen. I am not saying that they, as students would allow it to happen, but that they are the people given the chance who would let it happen.

[vailpass]

Not as students but as employees of the institution with their own interest in mind as well as the programs interest which is to cover up what was happening to protect their program's legacy and that of the coach.

They would be the first candidates if in that situation to have been the ones turning their heads and letting it all happen. I am not saying that they, as students would allow it to happen, but that they are the people given the chance who would let it happen.

I respect you as a poster; we'll have to disagree on this one. I don't believe that pride in your school makes you predisposed to allow pedophilia to occur. Far fucking from it.

[vailpass]

They should carpet bomb the area of the statue and whatever dumbass students are around it, so what.

What a bunch of frickin morons.

Oh yes.The best way to respond to the ruining of innocent lives is to ruin some more innocent lives. Clearly.

[Jerm]

Oh yes.The best way to respond to the ruining of innocent lives is to ruin some more innocent lives. Clearly.

I wasn't meaning....literally....JFC...

:facepalm:

[mr. tegu]

I respect you as a poster; we'll have to disagree on this one. I don't believe that pride in your school makes you predisposed to allow pedophilia to occur. Far fucking from it.

Thanks and likewise. I don't think pride in the school exclusively positions them to allow these things to happen. I am sure there are thousands of people who have pride in Penn St that aren't supportive of Paterno now. I just think these few individuals are a bit skewed in their pride and what they are defending. I can agree to disagree. But if you don't want to do that I can say something that you won't accept such a resolution, such as "blow them up or burn down the school." I would be lieing to you and myself though. :)

[vailpass]

I wasn't meaning....literally....JFC...

:facepalm:

I didn't think you were being literal. My response is directed at any advocated retribution toward those who are blameless in this tragedy.

[notorious]

Dumbass kids.

[vailpass]

Dumbass kids.

There. That's the deserved response here.

[Rain Man]

I'd love to know how or whether this is affecting the number of applications they receive, and whether it's affecting their athletic recruiting. If I was an athlete or a prospective student, I would certainly mark them way down just because I wouldn't want to hear the jokes and snickers for my whole career.

[ReynardMuldrake]

You agree that not wanting the statue torn down means the students would allow and condone child molestation?

"Condoning" is the wrong word. They are enabling child molestation to happen with their blind hero worship and their "zero accountability" mentality. This is not a sporting event or a popularity contest. You do not win "points" for making your coach or your school look good.

If they were less concerned with appearances and more concerned with doing the right thing, perhaps someone would have spoken up and this whole thing could have been prevented.

[chiefzilla1501]

You agree that not wanting the statue torn down means the students would allow and condone child molestation?

Yes. If they put the reputation of their idol and their school above child welfare, that is exactly what they are doing. It at least sends a message that they don't believe the charges were serious enough to be outraged by them.

I do agree that a lot of this is driven by their age and immaturity. I also think people are kidding themselves if they think this wouldn't happen in most other markets where you have such a prominent sports figure like Joe Pa. So no, I'm not going to say these kids are bad kids. But in this case, they are absolutely stupid and they should be shamed for it.

[Skyy God]

Statue's going down, hopefully with Jay Paterno chained to it.

Details are still not known, but word is beginning to trickle out that Penn State's board of trustees voted last night to remove the statue. Kim Jones of the NFL Network and WFAN radio in New York—a Penn State alumna—was first with the news:

Am told that Penn State plans to take down the Paterno statue this weekend.

— Kimberly Jones (@KimJonesSports) July 20, 2012

And Bonnie Bernstein has also chimed in with something similar:

Source: Penn State Board of Trustees voted on a conference call last night to take down Joe Paterno statue. Will happen this wknd.

— Bonnie Bernstein (@BonnieBernstein) July 20, 2012

http://deadspin.com/5927730/reports-penn-state-plans-to-take-down-the-paterno-statue-this-weekend

[BigMeatballDave]

LOL Statute?

[saphojunkie]

I don't blame them.

Because you have been constantly blind in this entire story to the fact that celebrating a twat makes you a twat.

[Setsuna]

Bout damn time. Honestly though vailpass has gone full retard. And who gives a crap about however many years of anything? Children had their innocence forcefully taken away from them. Screw anyone for feeling sorry for ****ing tradition.

[Skyy God]

LOL Statute?

I was looking at one earlier.

[the Talking Can]

Statue's going down, hopefully with Jay Paterno chained to it.



http://deadspin.com/5927730/reports-penn-state-plans-to-take-down-the-paterno-statue-this-weekend

thank god...the first decision they've made that doesn't treat football as sacrosanct...

[gblowfish]

Maybe Neverland Ranch will buy it....

[mr. tegu]

But...but...we are supporting Paterno and school tradition. /stupid students protecting the statue.

[the Talking Can]

it's coming down

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188530/joe-paterno-statue-removed-penn-state-university-announces

Construction vehicles and police arrived shortly after dawn Sunday, barricading the street and sidewalks near the statue, erecting a chain-link fence then concealing the statue with a blue tarp.

A live video feed posted on the website of the Centre Daily Times of State College showed workers in white hard hats draping a plastic sheet over the statue, preparing for its removal.

[Bewbies]

Good.

[Chief Pote]

It's about time. Now the "just football" death penalty should be invoked.

[Al Bundy]

It's about time. Now the "just football" death penalty should be invoked.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/



(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.

The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.

The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.

[kstater]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/



(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.

The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.

The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.

Sounds like a multi million dollar fine. Cause death penalty or post season ban wouldn't be unprecedented.

[Setsuna]

Sounds like a multi million dollar fine. Cause death penalty or post season ban wouldn't be unprecedented.

Would shutting down the program for a decade be unprecedented?

[Al Bundy]

I get the feeling some of the people in Happy Valley really do believe that Paterno was a victim.

[luv]

So, the football team is being penalized because it was associated with JoPa? I understand penalizing those involved. I just don't get why the team will have such steep penalties.

[Setsuna]

So, the football team is being penalized because it was associated with JoPa? I understand penalizing those involved. I just don't get why the team will have such steep penalties.

:facepalm: Please GTFO. Do you not know how the world works? I'm tired of seeing your naive posts on this matter.

[Bambi]

Replace the header photo of that nasty bitch with this one.

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2012/07/22/news/web_photos/APTOPIXPennStateAbuseStatue102251--525x400.jpg

[milkman]

:facepalm: Please GTFO. Do you not know how the world works? I'm tired of seeing your naive posts on this matter.

Just shut the hell up, you useless ****ing prick.

It may be naive, but it's a legitimate question.

The NCAA is a ****ing joke.

The people that break the rules rarely are the ones that get penalized for their transgressions.

But, because of the things working the way they do, people that had absolutely nothing to do with this whole ****ing mess are going to pay the price.

[milkman]

Joe Pa dying before he had to actually face the music for covering up for Sandusky is a travesty.

[ChiefRocka]

What about one year with zero football in "Happy Valley". Total rebuild.

[Setsuna]

Just shut the hell up, you useless ****ing prick.

It may be naive, but it's a legitimate question.

The NCAA is a ****ing joke.

The people that break the rules rarely are the ones that get penalized for their transgressions.

But, because of the things working the way they do, people that had absolutely nothing to do with this whole ****ing mess are going to pay the price.

It's not a ****ing legitimate question because anyone with half a brain knows that's how this shit works. Just ****ing deal with it. Waste of a post when you already ****ing know what will happen.


Replace the header photo of that nasty bitch with this one.

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2012/07/22/news/web_photos/APTOPIXPennStateAbuseStatue102251--525x400.jpg
That's the only legitimate post I've ever seen you make since I've been here.

[milkman]

It's not a ****ing legitimate question because anyone with half a brain knows that's how this shit works. Just ****ing deal with it. Waste of a post when you already ****ing know what will happen.



That's the only legitimate post I've ever seen you make since I've been here.

I get how it works.

But knowing how it works, and understanding why it works this way are two separate things.

It's a legitimate question that I really would like to know the answer to, though I know I will never get that answer.

You can tell me, well they have to do something that makes a statement and that somehow deters others from breaking the rules.

But it doesn't work.

Until the people that actually break the rules are the ones who pay the price for breaking the rules, these NCAA sanctions that only penalize people that had nothing to do with breaking the rules are just wasted effort.

USC was penalized for rules that were broken by Reggie Bush and Pete Carrol.

Nothing they can do to penalize Bush, but rather than penalize people that had nothing to do with the infractions, ban Pete Carrol from coaching in the NCAA ever again.

[stevenidol]

It's not a ****ing legitimate question because anyone with half a brain knows that's how this shit works. Just ****ing deal with it. Waste of a post when you already ****ing know what will happen.



That's the only legitimate post I've ever seen you make since I've been here.

I suppose murderers with children should all be let out of prison so that the kids don't have to grow up without a parent. I mean, why punish the kids? THE KIDS??

[jAZ]

So, the football team is being penalized because it was associated with JoPa? I understand penalizing those involved. I just don't get why the team will have such steep penalties.

:facepalm: Please GTFO. Do you not know how the world works? I'm tired of seeing your naive posts on this matter.

Its not a question of naive, IMO. Its missing the point of who all needs punishing IMO. The system that is corrupt is all of big time college sports. Corrupted by Hero worship like what happened he. JoPa and child rape is but one example (the worst I've ever seen) of this corruption.

But the ultimate source of the corrupting power is the fans, the community, and the boosters. They are all part of a broken system that feeds freaks like sandusky and paterno. That system needs a punishment as much as anyone or anything.

The NCAA needs to send a warning to other schools and fans to help ensure that the next corrupt act is merely a recruiting violation.

[qabbaan]

So, the football team is being penalized because it was associated with JoPa? I understand penalizing those involved. I just don't get why the team will have such steep penalties.

Because the athletic department from coaches up to the highest levels of the university were involved in a coverup and more or less permissiveness of child molestation? You don't get why there will be penalties for this?

[Bambi]

It's not a ****ing legitimate question because anyone with half a brain knows that's how this shit works. Just ****ing deal with it. Waste of a post when you already ****ing know what will happen.



That's the only legitimate post I've ever seen you make since I've been here.

Cool. I don't really notice your posts so I can't say the same but I'm sure some of them have been good.

[stevenidol]

Until the people that actually break the rules are the ones who pay the price for breaking the rules, these NCAA sanctions that only penalize people that had nothing to do with breaking the rules are just wasted effort.

Lack of Institutional Control. The institution, being Penn State, allowed this to happen. So the punishment is given to the institution, being Penn State.

If Penn State is given the death penalty, I would imagine they will allow all the athletes to transfer without sitting out a year like they did with Baylor a few years ago.

[milkman]

Because the athletic department from coaches up to the highest levels of the university were involved in a coverup and more or less permissiveness of child molestation? You don't get why there will be penalties for this?

She doesn't get why people that were not involved in any way are going to be penalized.

Those coaches and administrators are all gone.

The people that are going to penalized were not there when these atrocities took place.

[WilliamTheIrish]

When a reporter says "unprecedented" from the NCAA I tend to be skeptical. If there were truly an unprecedented penalty we'd see the faucet to the CIC $ that goes to PSU shut off.

I realize that's out of the jurisdiction of the NCAA. But if the pressure keeps mounting and the Clery Act investigation into PSU's lack of compliance (or having a compliance department) I could see a punishment of this nature.

[jAZ]

Because the athletic department from coaches up to the highest levels of the university were involved in a coverup and more or less permissiveness of child molestation? You don't get why there will be penalties for this?

Far and a way the worst incident of lack of institutional control ever. So far beyond what anyone ever even imagined possible, that people have a hard time seeing it for what it is, I suspect. It's not what you think of when you talk about NCAA violations.

[qabbaan]

Its not a question of naive, IMO. Its missing the point of who all needs punishing IMO. The system that is corrupt is all of big time college sports. Corrupted by Hero worship like what happened he. JoPa and child rape is but one example (the worst I've ever seen) of this corruption.

But the ultimate source of the corrupting power is the fans, the community, and the boosters. They are all part of a broken system that feeds freaks like sandusky and paterno. That system needs a punishment as much as anyone or anything.

The NCAA needs to send a warning to other schools and fans to help ensure that the next corrupt act is merely a recruiting violation.

The university needs to be punished because this problem was known to the highest levels and permitted to continue. The whole university, not just the athletic department or Paterno, was responsible for child rape.

There have to be heavy penalties to show that this kind of thing doesn't go unpunished and so every other NCAA school knows what will happen in the future if they don't report something like this.

You can't un-rape those kids or un-ruin their lives, but you can make the risk of not reporting unacceptable for every school in the future who learns of something this egregious, and which might be tempted to cover it up to preserve their lucrative jobs and their university's football program.

[milkman]

Lack of Institutional Control. The institution, being Penn State, allowed this to happen. So the punishment is given to the institution, being Penn State.

If Penn State is given the death penalty, I would imagine they will allow all the athletes to transfer without sitting out a year like they did with Baylor a few years ago.

I understand that.

But this lack of institutional control was on Spanier, Paterno, and the other two whose name I can't remember now.

So the guy that just got hired as the head coach and the staff he might have hired are the ones getting ****ed now.

[Bambi]

what a creep

http://c4241337.r37.cf2.rackcdn.com/2012/203/688/removal_original.jpg

[qabbaan]

Far and a way the worst incident of lack of institutional control ever. So far beyond what anyone ever even imagined possible, that people have a hard time seeing it for what it is, I suspect. It's not what you think of when you talk about NCAA violations.

Agreed.

Really, if Paterno had murdered someone and the school was aware and covered it up, that wouldn't be as serious as this. IMO.

SMU got the death penalty for a long history of corruption and paying players and such. Penn State had a long history of corruption around something much worse.

They should be losing football for 3-4 years IMO

[jAZ]

I'd recommend a 100 year death penalty or once all the victims are gone from this earth. They shouldnt have to watch another game of Penn St football as long as they live.

[jAZ]

I understand that.

But this lack of institutional control was on Spanier, Paterno, and the other two whose name I can't remember now.

So the guy that just got hired as the head coach and the staff he might have hired are the ones getting ****ed now.
It's on the entire community. They empowered this culture of JoPa.

[qabbaan]

I understand that.

But this lack of institutional control was on Spanier, Paterno, and the other two whose name I can't remember now.

So the guy that just got hired as the head coach and the staff he might have hired are the ones getting ****ed now.

Too bad... The people at Penn State who decided to cover this up made a calculated decision that it was worth it to not report and let the problem continue. The NCAA has to send a message that no, they miscalculated. It is not worth the risk. They should be setting the precedent for what the consequences look like in those cases so no one ever makes the mistake of thinking not reporting is an acceptable risk again.

[Al Bundy]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=9164578

This is a great thread.

[qabbaan]

I'd recommend a 100 year death penalty or once all the victims are gone from this earth. They shouldnt have to watch another game of Penn St football as long as they live.

SMU still hasn't recovered from the 1 year death penalty they got in the 80s, but Penn State has a lot more money and support behind it. I think 4 years for football would be a huge blow. Paterno's legacy would be the stadium sitting empty until 2016

[Setsuna]

I get how it works.

But knowing how it works, and understanding why it works this way are two separate things.

It's a legitimate question that I really would like to know the answer to, though I know I will never get that answer.

You can tell me, well they have to do something that makes a statement and that somehow deters others from breaking the rules.

But it doesn't work.

Until the people that actually break the rules are the ones who pay the price for breaking the rules, these NCAA sanctions that only penalize people that had nothing to do with breaking the rules are just wasted effort.

USC was penalized for rules that were broken by Reggie Bush and Pete Carrol.

Nothing they can do to penalize Bush, but rather than penalize people that had nothing to do with the infractions, ban Pete Carrol from coaching in the NCAA ever again.
Ok I can see this as 100% valid. You are absolutely right. So you want those responsible punished. Now do you think the families of these people will be unreasonably punished? Except the immediate Paterno family retards of course. I think they will. In these situations, someone innocent, regardless of how it is gone about will be punished. I suppose the only solution is to limit the scope of those affected.

[milkman]

It's on the entire community. They empowered this culture of JoPa.

No it isn't.

This is on JoPa, and Spanier, and the others that were involved in covering up Sandusky's crime.

These are men who should know what the right thing to do is, regardless of whatever empowerment they feel from the community.

Too bad... The people at Penn State who decided to cover this up made a calculated decision that it was worth it to not report and let the problem continue. The NCAA has to send a message that no, they miscalculated. It is not worth the risk. They should be setting the precedent for what the consequences look like in those cases so no one ever makes the mistake of thinking not reporting is an acceptable risk again.

When I worked at IBC (Wonder Bread/Hostess), the division manager (who I thought was low life scum) was arrested and convicted for child molestation.

He had apparently been molesting the mentally challenged daughter of the woman he lived with for a number of years.

Should I be penalized becasue I worked for him, even though I had no idea that this was going on?

Should my co-workers, who also were unaware of his crime?

[Old Dog]

I'm sure some of them have been good.

A post even more inaccurate than normal....impressive

[chiefzilla1501]

Agreed.

Really, if Paterno had murdered someone and the school was aware and covered it up, that wouldn't be as serious as this. IMO.

SMU got the death penalty for a long history of corruption and paying players and such. Penn State had a long history of corruption around something much worse.

They should be losing football for 3-4 years IMO

The reason why nobody has gotten the death penalty ever since is because of what happened to SMU. SMU is a small school. You can't even imagine the financial impact it would have on a major public University.

Miami recently had probably some of the most egregious violations from a recruiting standpoint. The death penalty was never in play. Same reason.

You are talking about a decision that would not only have millions of dollars of impact. It would cost billions of dollars. Here's what's ridiculous about advocates for the death penalty. The guys who fucked up (Spanier, Curley, unfortunately Joe Pa died before justice was served for him), they're going to pay the price. The death penalty does NOTHING to further prove that point to these guys. The people that pay for the death penalty are the students who depend on the school for a quality education, the taxpayers that fund it, and the faculty who rely on Penn State for a job.

[Setsuna]

A post even more inaccurate than normal....impressive

Screw you! I've made a few good posts! :cuss: :harumph:

[Bugeater]

No it isn't.

This is on JoPa, and Spanier, and the others that were involved in covering up Sandusky's crime.

These are men who should know what the right thing to do is, regardless of whatever empowerment they feel from the community.



When I worked at IBC (Wonder Bread/Hostess), the division manager (who I thought was low life scum) was arrested and convicted for child molestation.

He had apparently been molesting the mentally challenged daughter of the woman he lived with for a number of years.

Should I be penalized becasue I worked for him, even though I had no idea that this was going on?

Should my co-workers, who also were unaware of his crime?
Unless your employer was enabling him by covering up his crimes that's not a fair analogy.

[wazu]

I understand that.

But this lack of institutional control was on Spanier, Paterno, and the other two whose name I can't remember now.

So the guy that just got hired as the head coach and the staff he might have hired are the ones getting ****ed now.

They are fucked anyway. Their brand, their hero, their legacy of one of the proudest organizations in all of sports has been destroyed. They need to sweep and clear, nuke it all. Their football program is now a source of pain, and everything it does right now only serves to bring up Paterno/Sandusky.

Penn State needs to shut it all down for a clearly defined period. No football, no program for a couple of years. Not as punishment, but so that when they start it back up again, they can re-build the entire culture and program from ground zero. I think if that happens we'll see a nation of people rooting for them instead of criticizing every move and saying "they don't get it".

[luv]

:facepalm: Please GTFO. Do you not know how the world works? I'm tired of seeing your naive posts on this matter.

I understand whenever NCAA rules have been violated. What NCAA rules were violated? It was a criminal action, and it was tried in court. Whenever a coach gets in trouble with the law, does the NCAA get involved, or is it normally handled internally?

I can see why they would want to make an example, I guess. I just don't see how JoPa not saying anything unfairly benefited the program, or gave them an unair advantage on the field in any way.

PS. You suck at being an internet tough guy. Maybe, instead of attempting to insult me, you could actually take the time to teach me something. Of course, that would require you knowing something.

[chiefzilla1501]

They are ****ed anyway. Their brand, their hero, their legacy of one of the proudest organizations in all of sports has been destroyed. They need to sweep and clear, nuke it all. Their football program is now a source of pain, and everything it does right now only serves to bring up Paterno/Sandusky.

Penn State needs to shut it all down for a clearly defined period. No football, no program for a couple of years. Not as punishment, but so that when they start it back up again, they can re-build the entire culture and program from ground zero. I think if that happens we'll see a nation of people rooting for them instead of criticizing every move and saying "they don't get it".

That is absolutely ridiculous. That is an economically devastating decision. There is more to this than just punishing a few guys involved with the football program.

You can send a very strong message to the school without crippling the school as a public institution. If you are a high school kid in the state of Pennsylvania, you deserve the low-tuition, high-quality education your parents paid taxes for 18 years to get access to.

[milkman]

Unless your employer was enabling him by covering up his crimes that's not a fair analogy.

No, it's not a perfect analogy, but for the purpose of this discussion, it works.

The people involved, JoPa's superiors who helped in the coverup are facing criminal charges, so the people that we are discussing now, the ones that would be affected by anything the NCAA does now, are the people like me, who had nothing to do with the crime, and were unaware of it.

[milkman]

I understand whenever NCAA rules have been violated. What NCAA rules were violated?

PS. You suck at being an internet tough guy.

Lack of institutional control.

Essentially a huge umbrella that gives the NCAA power to penalize a program for pretty much whatever the hell they choose to.

[luv]

Lack of institutional control.

Essentially a huge umbrella that gives the NCAA power to penalize a program for pretty much whatever the hell they choose to.

So, they feel that the university doesn't have control over their program, so they're taking control for them? Firing the president of the university and the head of the football program wasn't enough? If this is the case, I say give them hefty fines. I just don't think current players or the community should be punished as well.

[gblowfish]

All those kids who want to protect the statue should have to spend a night in jail with Uncle Jerry.

[Bugeater]

So, they feel that the university doesn't have control over their program, so they're taking control for them? Firing the president of the university and the head of the football program wasn't enough? If this is the case, I say give them hefty fines. I just don't think current players or the community should be punished as well.
They're going to be affected regardless of what the NCAA does.

[notorious]

The new Penn State officials should have a press conference and tell everyone that Joe and the gang were complete pieces of trash, and God willing they will completely erase them from the school history books.


Shutting down football is a retarded idea. Nobody left there has anything to do with what happened.

[milkman]

All those kids who want to protect the statue should have to spend a night in jail with Uncle Jerry.

Nah.

They are doing nothing wrong, just stupid.

Just neuter them so their stupidity doesn't infect the gene pool.

[luv]

They're going to be affected regardless of what the NCAA does.

Agreed.

[Rams Fan]

I heard this somewhere and I like this idea.

For one season, let all of the money raised from tickets/concessions/etc. go to the victims instead of the football program.

[luv]

All those kids who want to protect the statue should have to spend a night in jail with Uncle Jerry.

I think it's silly that it's gotten so much press coverage. I don't think it's a big deal either way, but I can definitely see why the university would want to purge itself of anything bearing the name.

[Ace Gunner]

this is a huge step in the recovery of our nation /****ing PC idiot

[chiefzilla1501]

I heard this somewhere and I like this idea.

For one season, let all of the money raised from tickets/concessions/etc. go to the victims instead of the football program.

Well, that's essentially what's happening. The football program makes about $50M in revenue, and the settlements are going to be well more than that.

But here's the thing. People don't understand the economics of the situation. Football pays for the entire athletic program. So if you strip that money away, you're talking about losing funding for softball, lacrosse, baseball, etc.... There are about 1,000 athletes who would get dicked over if that funding was lost. That's what makes so much of this a lot less simple than people make it out to be.

The victims are going to make a shitload of money as is. And it will be based on what the court of law believes is an appropriate penalty. That should be more than sufficient. Yeah, I think Penn State should in the next 10 years, take a very active role in raising money for child abuse. But right now, they should be focused on rebuilding from this mess and making sure it doesn't happen again.

[alnorth]

The NCAA is going to announce sanctions against Penn State tomorrow morning.

ESPN is reporting that the NCAA has decided against the death penalty, but the penalties they are going to impose on the program are so severe that "the death penalty may have been preferable" (I don't think the SMU case is a good comparison, PSU would not take over 2 decades to recover, with Big 10 support)

[emaw82]

No, it's not a perfect analogy, but for the purpose of this discussion, it works.

The people involved, JoPa's superiors who helped in the coverup are facing criminal charges, so the people that we are discussing now, the ones that would be affected by anything the NCAA does now, are the people like me, who had nothing to do with the crime, and were unaware of it.

I dunno if the anaology works (and for the record, I'm not taking a side on this... there are pros and cons of any possible punishment they may be considering). The main difference between your situation and the Penn State situation is that Penn State benefitied GREATLY from the coverup/crimes of a few. The university/students/athletes/coaches/community ALL benefited from the success/money/etc that JoPa and co's coverup generated. That was the main reason for their actions... to ensure the continued prestige and success (and HUGE revenue) of the football program. Since the football program and school were the main beneficiaries of the crime (in terms of money, success, etc), I'm not necessarily against punishing the program. I doubt that your boss's motivation for his crime had anything to do with the financial well-being of your company and it's reputation, or that his crime's benefited the company in any way.

[Setsuna]

I understand whenever NCAA rules have been violated. What NCAA rules were violated? It was a criminal action, and it was tried in court. Whenever a coach gets in trouble with the law, does the NCAA get involved, or is it normally handled internally?

I can see why they would want to make an example, I guess. I just don't see how JoPa not saying anything unfairly benefited the program, or gave them an unair advantage on the field in any way.

PS. You suck at being an internet tough guy. Maybe, instead of attempting to insult me, you could actually take the time to teach me something. Of course, that would require you knowing something.

As milk stated, lack of institutional control. Which in all seriousness it was just that. I do suck at being a tough guy because that isn't my aim. There have been a few threads that go 3 pages deep saying "lack of institutional control," and you still had to ask about it? You've even posted in some of those threads. To me it feels like you have been asking the same question over and over again and not learning. I don't think I can teach you anything because you'd forget it the next day. Nice try though.

[BigRedChief]

They had no choice to take it down. It would have been vandalized or bombed down either way.

[alnorth]

If you want to anticipate a possible death penalty, look south to Miami. Last week it was revealed that the violations were a lot more serious than previously thought.

[DJJasonp]

All those kids who want to protect the statue should have to spend a night in jail with Uncle Jerry.

agreed.....in the back of my mind, all these people stickin' with Joe Pa, etc....

It's always reminded me of that South Park episode "Mexican Staring Frog", where Jesus is hosting a Montel-like show.

Couldnt find the clip, but here's the bit that reminds me of these blind-followers of Joe Pa:


Jesus: Uuh-I think we've somewhat missed the point here. Let's go to somebody else. [backs up to an African American] Yes, your comments.

African American: Montel, I think we're forgetting something very important in all this. Okay, sure, he touched some children, but, the man is a great singer and he has entertained us for so many years.

Jesus: Wha- What are you talking about?

African American: Michael Jackson! All this baad-mouthin', puttin' the man down. Maybe he did touch some children now and then, but come on! It's Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson! [the audience applauds]

[chiefzilla1501]

I dunno if the anaology works (and for the record, I'm not taking a side on this... there are pros and cons of any possible punishment they may be considering). The main difference between your situation and the Penn State situation is that Penn State benefitied GREATLY from the coverup/crimes of a few. The university/students/athletes/coaches/community ALL benefited from the success/money/etc that JoPa and co's coverup generated. That was the main reason for their actions... to ensure the continued prestige and success (and HUGE revenue) of the football program. Since the football program and school were the main beneficiaries of the crime (in terms of money, success, etc), I'm not necessarily against punishing the program. I doubt that your boss's motivation for his crime had anything to do with the financial well-being of your company and it's reputation, or that his crime's benefited the company in any way.

Here's the thing. If you're talking about a school benefiting off of violations, Miami's issues are a hell of a lot more scandalous. Penn State didn't really benefit from this. Sandusky was essentially let go, which means they lost their defensive coordinator. They would have suffered mild repetitional loss if they turned Sandusky in.

This isn't about a team covering up for competitive advantage. This is about a coach on a power trip. Maybe he was trying to protect the school's brand. It seems moreso he was trying to protect the brand of his friend.

[Bearcat]

The NCAA is going to announce sanctions against Penn State tomorrow morning.

ESPN is reporting that the NCAA has decided against the death penalty, but the penalties they are going to impose on the program are so severe that "the death penalty may have been preferable" (I don't think the SMU case is a good comparison, PSU would not take over 2 decades to recover, with Big 10 support)

Really interesting... the article mentions that lack of institutional control is really all they could be hanging onto.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

[tk13]

The more I think about it the less problem I have with the death penalty to be honest. People in the athletic department would be hurt and so would the central PA economy I'm sure, but tough. The people in charge of these things made completely selfish decisions that were truly horrific, all in the interest of maintaining the power of the football program, protecting their friends, and making millions of dollars a year. A cover up that went all the way to the top. This can never happen again. An example needs to be set that this is not okay.

[Old Dog]

I'm curious as to what folks think the penalties WILL be in regards to the football program.
I'm gonna go with 100 new scholarships over 10 years, no non-conference home games for 2013 or 2014 (taking them away for 2012 penelizes Navy, Temple, and Ohio since they couldn't find replacement games in this short of a time), Bowl and live television ban for six years.

[chiefzilla1501]

Really interesting... the article mentions that lack of institutional control is really all they could be hanging onto.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

Which opens up pandora's box, because I can assure you there are schools in potentially worse situations when it comes to "institutional control." The NCAA is a fucking joke. They can't turn their heads on this. They created a bunch of ridiculous rules they can't enforce.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Probably the best avenue for the NCAA to take is to remove from PSU any bowl eligibility, can't win the conference, limit schollies, until the legal system is through dealing with Spanier, Curley et al. Because you know these men are going to sing and turn on each other. They don't want to go to jail forever.

Keep them in a holding pattern until the law is done dealing with the 3 living perps (Spanier, Graham and Curley) and if something comes to light that they can use to penalize PSU, then go for it.

I don't know how many of you have actually read the entire report but one particular sentence is used over and over in the report and it shows just how quickly and decisively these 4 men protected the football program and helped the foster the culture that allowed it to continue:

"No record or communication by Spanier, Curley Schultz or Paterno made any attempt to determine the identity of the child involved" (in any of the abuse cases)

I try not to look at these things with too much emotion but this part of the report tends to gnaw at me and make me want to "Dresden" the entire program.

[tk13]

Which opens up pandora's box, because I can assure you there are schools in potentially worse situations when it comes to "institutional control." The NCAA is a ****ing joke. They can't turn their heads on this. They created a bunch of ridiculous rules they can't enforce.

I understand a lot of your points you make... but this post is truly disturbing. This is one of the most horrific things that's happened in the history of American sport. You probably need to step away from the computer for a bit. Paying kids under the table is not nearly as horrific as what happened here. This and the Baylor stuff a few years back is an entire other level of disturbing.

[alnorth]

Which opens up pandora's box, because I can assure you there are schools in potentially worse situations when it comes to "institutional control." The NCAA is a ****ing joke. They can't turn their heads on this. They created a bunch of ridiculous rules they can't enforce.

This is not going to be a slippery slope, don't be ridiculous. The slippery slope argument is too easy to make, and presumes no one has any common sense.

Where do we draw the line? We draw it pretty much here, at deciding that protecting your football program is more important than protecting a dozen or more children.

[alnorth]

Reading around different stories, it looks like the sanctions are going to be a very severe cut in scholarships and loss of bowl eligibility for many years.

I guess we'll have to see what "many" is.

However, a source told ESPN that Monday's penalties could be more crippling than a death penalty.

[Mr. Laz]

Which opens up pandora's box, because I can assure you there are schools in potentially worse situations when it comes to "institutional control." The NCAA is a fucking joke. They can't turn their heads on this. They created a bunch of ridiculous rules they can't enforce.
You've lost it ... are you a Penn State grad or just have insane hatred for everything 'ncaa'?

complete loss of perspective

[chiefzilla1501]

The more I think about it the less problem I have with the death penalty to be honest. People in the athletic department would be hurt and so would the central PA economy I'm sure, but tough. The people in charge of these things made completely selfish decisions that were truly horrific, all in the interest of maintaining the power of the football program, protecting their friends, and making millions of dollars a year. A cover up that went all the way to the top. This can never happen again. An example needs to be set that this is not okay.

Penn State has been purged of the scumbags who enabled it. You think the new coaching staff, athletic department, board of directors, and school administration don't realize they need to shape up?

Who are we trying to prove this point to? Punish those responsible. Punish the football program. And force Penn State to "over comply." Pay the victims' meaty settlements. That will result in hundreds of million dollars in losses and the school will struggle to have a competitive football team for the next 5-10 years. The penalties are already very severe. This will never happen again. Penn State's reputation depends on that.

Any penalty beyond that punishes on the whole people not responsible for this mess.

[milkman]

I dunno if the anaology works (and for the record, I'm not taking a side on this... there are pros and cons of any possible punishment they may be considering). The main difference between your situation and the Penn State situation is that Penn State benefitied GREATLY from the coverup/crimes of a few. The university/students/athletes/coaches/community ALL benefited from the success/money/etc that JoPa and co's coverup generated. That was the main reason for their actions... to ensure the continued prestige and success (and HUGE revenue) of the football program. Since the football program and school were the main beneficiaries of the crime (in terms of money, success, etc), I'm not necessarily against punishing the program. I doubt that your boss's motivation for his crime had anything to do with the financial well-being of your company and it's reputation, or that his crime's benefited the company in any way.

Good post, but my analogy goes directly to the people that are going to be affected by any sanctions the NCAA imposes.

Those people are the ones that are going to pay the price for the actions of the ones that are actually responsible.

I've said this before, but if those resonsible for the coverup had actually done the right thing, the program and the institution would not have suffered from one man commiting a crime.

The person who did the right thing would have been hailed as a hero.

If JoPa had done the right thing, would you be more, or less inclined, as a parent to send your son to play for him?


If any one of these guys had done the right thing, the program, and the school would not have suffered any damage.

They didn't benefit by covering it up.

The school will greatly suffer, however, now that the coverup has been exposed.

And again, the ones paying the price that the NCAA sanctions will cost are those who bear no responsibility.

[Mr. Laz]

Reading around different stories, it looks like the sanctions are going to be a very severe cut in scholarships and loss of bowl eligibility for many years.

I guess we'll have to see what "many" is.
would rather see loss of t.v. than anything else.

Penn State should NOT be on t.v. as a representation of what should be.

[FloridaMan88]

I think the NCAA hands down massive scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions and a 4 year bowl/postseason ban, essentially making the program a competitive non-factor for an entire class of players. I think they'll also give all players currently on scholarship an immediate release to transfer (essentially creating a similar transfer situation, in terms of what happened to SMU football and Baylor basketball during their past scandals).

This will effectively shut down the program, without having to give the "Death Penalty".

[FloridaMan88]

would rather see loss of t.v. than anything else.

Penn State should NOT be on t.v. as a representation of what should be.

The problem with a TV ban is that it also punishes the teams they are playing.

[alnorth]

Penn State has been purged of the scumbags who enabled it. You think the new coaching staff, athletic department, board of directors, and school administration don't realize they need to shape up?

Who are we trying to prove this point to? Punish those responsible. Punish the football program. And force Penn State to "over comply." Pay the victims' meaty settlements. That will result in hundreds of million dollars in losses and the school will struggle to have a competitive football team for the next 5-10 years. The penalties are already very severe. This will never happen again. Penn State's reputation depends on that.

Any penalty beyond that punishes on the whole people not responsible for this mess.

You are making an argument against any NCAA penalties for any reason, because usually penalties come down long after cheating players and coaches have skipped town.

NCAA penalties almost always hurt those who were not involved. There's no way around it. If this attitude of "only punish coaches and players who were involved, if you can" prevailed, there would be virtually no incentive for the schools to police their programs. If someone is caught with recruiting violations, eh, who cares, fire the coach, let the NCAA ban him from working again, and move on.

To prevent schools from cheating, you have to put the fear of God into them, with sufficient punishment hitting mostly the innocent so that they don't allow their coaches to cross the line. This is basically the same thing in a much bigger context. 40 years from now when the fury is gone and a future school president is faced with a similar problem that places him in an uncomfortable situation of going up against a beloved school icon, he'll say "Well, we don't want to be the next Penn State."

[tk13]

Penn State has been purged of the scumbags who enabled it. You think the new coaching staff, athletic department, board of directors, and school administration don't realize they need to shape up?

Who are we trying to prove this point to? Punish those responsible. Punish the football program. And force Penn State to "over comply." Pay the victims' meaty settlements. That will result in hundreds of million dollars in losses and the school will struggle to have a competitive football team for the next 5-10 years. The penalties are already very severe. This will never happen again. Penn State's reputation depends on that.

Any penalty beyond that punishes on the whole people not responsible for this mess.

We don't know all that... this thing has reached almost cult like status in some corners.

And it's not just for Penn State, it's setting an example for other programs too. If you enable something like this, you will pay. It's unfortunate but it has to be done. I also don't know why the NCAA can be criticized but not the people in charge of the institution who obviously didn't have their athletes and fans' best interest in mind.

[alnorth]

I think they'll also give all players currently on scholarship an immediate release to transfer

THAT is the big question now. If the NCAA bans them from the postseason for "many" years, and allows all players to transfer without penalty, what you have basically done is impose a death penalty that still allows the school to sell tickets. If players can transfer freely, then competitively speaking, this would be no different from a death penalty.

[Setsuna]

Probably the best avenue for the NCAA to take is to remove from PSU any bowl eligibility, can't win the conference, limit schollies, until the legal system is through dealing with Spanier, Curley et al. Because you know these men are going to sing and turn on each other. They don't want to go to jail forever.

Keep them in a holding pattern until the law is done dealing with the 3 living perps (Spanier, Graham and Curley) and if something comes to light that they can use to penalize PSU, then go for it.

I don't know how many of you have actually read the entire report but one particular sentence is used over and over in the report and it shows just how quickly and decisively these 4 men protected the football program and helped the foster the culture that allowed it to continue:



I try not to look at these things with too much emotion but this part of the report tends to gnaw at me and make me want to "Dresden" the entire program.
That's a stupid punishment. Penn State football hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

[ohiobronco2]

I think the NCAA hands down massive scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions and a 4 year bowl/postseason ban, essentially making the program a competitive non-factor for an entire class of players. I think they'll also give all players currently on scholarship an immediate release to transfer (essentially creating a similar transfer situation, in terms of what happened to SMU football and Baylor basketball during their past scandals).

This will effectively shut down the program, without having to give the "Death Penalty".

I have a feeling that Miami is next. It won't be pretty for you folks either, at least you don't have child rape hanging over your university though. It's not good to be in the NCAA crosshairs.

[Old Dog]

I'm curious as to what folks think the penalties WILL be in regards to the football program. (Not should be, will be)

I'm gonna go with 100 new scholarships over 10 years, no non-conference home games for 2013 or 2014 (taking them away for 2012 penelizes Navy, Temple, and Ohio since they couldn't find replacement games in this short of a time), Bowl and live television ban for six years.

oops, I forgot "any current player can transfer without sitting out a year"

[chiefzilla1501]

I understand a lot of your points you make... but this post is truly disturbing. This is one of the most horrific things that's happened in the history of American sport. You probably need to step away from the computer for a bit. Paying kids under the table is not nearly as horrific as what happened here. This and the Baylor stuff a few years back is an entire other level of disturbing.

But we can't be blind to the idea that the NCAA enables these things to happen by encouraging a culture of cover-up and cheating. One of the most damning pieces to this story was when Joe Paterno said that all police matters should go directly to him, and he would decide how to deal with it. He would decide how to discipline his players. How to discipline his coaches. You can't tell me that this sounds unusual or that other coaches in other programs aren't doing the same thing.

And what has happened is that coaches and athletic directors are essentially deciding what's right and what's wrong. You are kidding yourself if you think Penn State is the only school that lacks institutional control.

Of course, Penn State is an extreme example and it should be treated like such. But we're all talking about "how can we make sure this happens again?" The NCAA has to be a big part of that, and it can't be just making an example of one program.

[milkman]

You are making an argument against any NCAA penalties for any reason, because usually penalties come down long after cheating players and coaches have skipped town.

NCAA penalties almost always hurt those who were not involved. There's no way around it. If this attitude of "only punish coaches and players who were involved, if you can" prevailed, there would be virtually no incentive for the schools to police their programs. If someone is caught with recruiting violations, eh, who cares, fire the coach, let the NCAA ban him from working again, and move on.

To prevent schools from cheating, you have to put the fear of God into them, with sufficient punishment hitting mostly the innocent so that they don't allow their coaches to cross the line. This is basically the same thing in a much bigger context. 40 years from now when the fury is gone and a future school president is faced with a similar problem that places him in an uncomfortable situation of going up against a beloved school icon, he'll say "Well, we don't want to be the next Penn State."

The fear of God has worked so well, so far.

I mean, no one has broken the rules since SMU got the death penalty.

[FloridaMan88]

THAT is the big question now. If the NCAA bans them from the postseason for "many" years, and allows all players to transfer without penalty, what you have basically done is impose a death penalty that still allows the school to sell tickets. If players can transfer freely, then competitively speaking, this would be no different from a death penalty.

This would be consistent with the reports from sources indicating that the Death Penalty won't be handed down, but that they'll wish the Death Penalty WAS given after they see what the penalties are.

[Titty Meat]

That's a stupid punishment. Penn State football hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

You are the biggest dumbass on this board.

[alnorth]

That's a stupid punishment. Penn State football hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

There's a difference between "not relevant" and perpetual celler-dweller.

If the sanctions are as severe as rumored, Penn State is going to become the Minnesota Golden Gophers of the East, regularly losing 7 or more games and rarely going to bowls.

[milkman]

You are the biggest dumbass on this board.

You're overstepping here.

That's my area of responsibility.

[Bugeater]

That's a stupid punishment. Penn State football hasn't been relevant in over a decade.
11 wins in '05, '08 & '09. Your stupid is showing again.

[alnorth]

The fear of God has worked so well, so far.

I mean, no one has broken the rules since SMU got the death penalty.

Silly argument.

"Speeding tickets have worked so well, haven't they. No one ever breaks the speed limit"

"LWOP in prison has worked so well, hasn't it. No one ever murders anyone"

Without severe NCAA penalties, we'd have the wild west where the prevailing attitude is "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying"

[chiefzilla1501]

You are making an argument against any NCAA penalties for any reason, because usually penalties come down long after cheating players and coaches have skipped town.

NCAA penalties almost always hurt those who were not involved. There's no way around it. If this attitude of "only punish coaches and players who were involved, if you can" prevailed, there would be virtually no incentive for the schools to police their programs. If someone is caught with recruiting violations, eh, who cares, fire the coach, let the NCAA ban him from working again, and move on.

To prevent schools from cheating, you have to put the fear of God into them, with sufficient punishment hitting mostly the innocent so that they don't allow their coaches to cross the line. This is basically the same thing in a much bigger context. 40 years from now when the fury is gone and a future school president is faced with a similar problem that places him in an uncomfortable situation of going up against a beloved school icon, he'll say "Well, we don't want to be the next Penn State."

After the Penn State scandal, colleges are still going to cheat. They're still going to have major institutional compliance issues. Because they know that if they don't cheat, their team will never be competitive. Bottom line.

The problem isn't that the NCAA isn't being hard enough on Penn State for this one specific penalty. I ask how the hell the NCAA didn't know for 20 years that Penn State's compliance department was in such disarray. And why they were never penalized for those things. The answer is more consistent punishment, not in severe punishments for the 1 in 20 years chance that you get caught.

[chiefzilla1501]

Silly argument.

"Speeding tickets have worked so well, haven't they. No one ever breaks the speed limit"

"LWOP in prison has worked so well, hasn't it. No one ever murders anyone"

Without severe NCAA penalties, we'd have the wild west where the prevailing attitude is "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying"

Let me ask you this....
You drive past a spot in Kansas City. You've seen cops in that spot there at least once a month. On the other hand, you have another stretch of road. You've lived there for 5 years, driven by that road every single day, and have never, ever seen a cop there.

Which stretch of road do you think you'll see more drivers following the rules?

[WilliamTheIrish]

You are the biggest dumbass on this board.

The best part of new posters like Setsuna is you don't have to provoke ridiculousness from them. It just flows like a river.

[alnorth]

After the Penn State scandal, colleges are still going to cheat. They're still going to have major institutional compliance issues. Because they know that if they don't cheat, their team will never be competitive. Bottom line.

You are dead-ass wrong to a hilarious degree.

Colleges make a very strong, strenuous effort to comply and police their coaches and programs. They do this to the point where when they uncover a violation internally, they are so scared of it being discovered, they will admit it to the NCAA, who may never have found out, and beg forgiveness.

You are pointing to a few rogue coaches and one rogue school as "proof" that punishment has no impact.

If your insane "only punish those who cheat" attitude prevailed, the school would fire the coach and suspend the player, hire a new coach, and tell him "OK, don't get caught like that last guy"

[alnorth]

Let me ask you this....
You drive past a spot in Kansas City. You've seen cops in that spot there at least once a month. On the other hand, you have another stretch of road. You've lived there for 5 years, driven by that road every single day, and have never, ever seen a cop there.

Which stretch of road do you think you'll see more drivers following the rules?

This analogy is not relevant because the NCAA is not deliberately turning a blind eye to one area. They wont catch everyone, but they do rely heavily on leaks and whistle-blowers, and those can come from anywhere. There is no eternally-abandoned stretch of road.

[FloridaMan88]

You are dead-ass wrong to a hilarious degree.

Colleges make a very strong, strenuous effort to comply and police their coaches and programs. They do this to the point where when they uncover a violation internally, they are so scared of it being discovered, they will admit it to the NCAA, who may never have found out, and beg forgiveness.

You are pointing to a few rogue coaches and one rogue school as "proof" that punishment has no impact.

If your insane "only punish those who cheat" attitude prevailed, the school would fire the coach and suspend the player, hire a new coach, and tell him "OK, don't get caught like that last guy"

It is in inaccurate to describe Penn State's actions as just "cheating"... what they did was commit criminal negligence in the most severe form by enabling and empowering a child rapist that put the safety of children in their community at great risk.

That goes well beyond an act of just "cheating" such as providing a recruit money under the table.

[chiefzilla1501]

THAT is the big question now. If the NCAA bans them from the postseason for "many" years, and allows all players to transfer without penalty, what you have basically done is impose a death penalty that still allows the school to sell tickets. If players can transfer freely, then competitively speaking, this would be no different from a death penalty.

This is a great post and exactly what we're seeing here.

The big difference between this and the death penalty, however, is that you give Penn State a chance to rebuild because there are millions of people who are going to depend on that school. Punish the football program, not the people who rely on the school. The proposed NCAA sanctions do exactly that. The death penalty does not.

[kstater]

Word is Penn State won't appeal any of the penalties. Sounds like they made a deal to basically get the death penalty but still sell tickets and collect tv contract money.

[milkman]

Silly argument.

"Speeding tickets have worked so well, haven't they. No one ever breaks the speed limit"

"LWOP in prison has worked so well, hasn't it. No one ever murders anyone"

Without severe NCAA penalties, we'd have the wild west where the prevailing attitude is "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying"

There are no perfect solutions, but if you actually held the person responsible for the actions, like Pete Carroll at USC, and banned him from coaching in the NCCA for life, you aren't going have Pete Carroll turning a blind eye to possible infractions.

[Brock]

Which opens up pandora's box, because I can assure you there are schools in potentially worse situations when it comes to "institutional control." The NCAA is a fucking joke. They can't turn their heads on this. They created a bunch of ridiculous rules they can't enforce.

You're a fucking clown.

[alnorth]

It is in inaccurate to describe Penn State's actions as just "cheating"... what they did was commit criminal negligence in the most severe form by enabling and empowering a child rapist that put the safety of children in their community at great risk.

That goes well beyond an act of just "cheating" such as providing a recruit money under the table.

I know, we've moved on from that. If you go back a couple pages, he is apparently arguing against ANY NCAA punishment for ANY violation beyond punishing ONLY the coaches and players involved. He's basically saying that the NCAA should only suspend coaches and players involved, and they usually should not remove a program's postseason eligibility or scholarships because that impacts the innocent.

I'm arguing why that is unreasonable.

[alnorth]

There are no perfect solutions, but if you actually held the person responsible for the actions, like Pete Carroll at USC, and banned him from coaching in the NCCA for life, you aren't going have Pete Carroll turning a blind eye to possible infractions.

What you'll have is USC, still perfectly fine with the idea of cheating, trying to find another dirty coach and sternly admonishing him to do a better job of not getting caught.

The reason why we punish the innocent is to instead force the school to not tolerate cheating at all.

[chiefzilla1501]

You are dead-ass wrong to a hilarious degree.

Colleges make a very strong, strenuous effort to comply and police their coaches and programs. They do this to the point where when they uncover a violation internally, they are so scared of it being discovered, they will admit it to the NCAA, who may never have found out, and beg forgiveness.

You are pointing to a few rogue coaches and one rogue school as "proof" that punishment has no impact.

If your insane "only punish those who cheat" attitude prevailed, the school would fire the coach and suspend the player, hire a new coach, and tell him "OK, don't get caught like that last guy"

I just don't agree with you here. I don't think any school has even close to some kind of fear of god that they're going to get caught. Schools will often report ticky-tack violations to prove they are in compliance. But there is still a huge shroud of secrecy about how they are actually getting recruits. I'm sure there is a shroud of secrecy as well about player eligibility, and whether they should report player violations if that means they'll get suspended for an important game.

[BigMeatballDave]

You are the biggest dumbass on this board.

That title belongs to Chieffootballfan

[chiefzilla1501]

I know, we've moved on from that. If you go back a couple pages, he is apparently arguing against ANY NCAA punishment for ANY violation beyond punishing ONLY the coaches and players involved. He's basically saying that the NCAA should only suspend coaches and players involved, and they usually should not remove a program's postseason eligibility or scholarships because that impacts the innocent.

I'm arguing why that is unreasonable.

I am not saying that at all. I've been agreeing all along that sanctions and penalties are appropriate.

I'm also saying it's a joke to think that this is going to be a major step toward getting other college programs in compliance. Other programs will still continue to cheat. They're going to continue to create a shroud of secrecy to prevent leaks and whistleblowers. And they'll still give the heads of football departments enormous power to dictate the rules. Those things won't change just because Penn State gets the death penalty. Teams aren't looking at this as an example. They're looking at it as an extreme case.

[alnorth]

I just don't agree with you here. I don't think any school has even close to some kind of fear of god that they're going to get caught. Schools will often report ticky-tack violations to prove they are in compliance. But there is still a huge shroud of secrecy about how they are actually getting recruits. I'm sure there is a shroud of secrecy as well about player eligibility, and whether they should report player violations if that means they'll get suspended for an important game.

Fair enough. At this point I think we're at an impasse because we can each throw up some anecdotes from here without really "proving" the other to be incorrect.

However, I will say that to the extent that any schools are dirty, without the NCAA punishment regime, EVERY school would have to be dirty, and all pretense of trying to comply would be dropped. Players would be put on the payroll and the only effort expended would be to not get caught.

[milkman]

What you'll have is USC, still perfectly fine with the idea of cheating, trying to find another dirty coach and sternly admonishing him to do a better job of not getting caught.

The reason why we punish the innocent is to instead force the school to not tolerate cheating at all.

I am not arguing against the NCAA taking action against the institution.

I am arguing that, in this case, they should consider how thier action affects the innocent.

This isn't about cheating.

This is about a criminal coverup that a lot of innocent people are going to pay the price for.

Punish the institution.

But be reasonable.

In the case of Pete Carroll and USC, you have to sanction the school, but you also have to penalize the one person most responsible that you still have some ability to penalize.

[alnorth]

I am not saying that at all. I've been agreeing all along that sanctions and penalties are appropriate.

I'm also saying it's a joke to think that this is going to be a major step toward getting other college programs in compliance. Other programs will still continue to cheat. They're going to continue to create a shroud of secrecy to prevent leaks and whistleblowers. And they'll still give the heads of football departments enormous power to dictate the rules. Those things won't change just because Penn State gets the death penalty. Teams aren't looking at this as an example. They're looking at it as an extreme case.

You are basically saying "this is so, because I believe it to be so"

I disagree. There are many, many reasons and anecdotes to point to showing that things are not as cynically out of hand as you seem to believe it to be.

[alnorth]

I am not arguing against the NCAA taking action against the institution.

I am arguing that, in this case, they should consider how thier action affects the innocent.

This isn't about cheating.

This is about a criminal coverup that a lot of innocent people are going to pay the price for.

Punish the institution.

But be reasonable.

In the case of Pete Carroll and USC, you have to sanction the school, but you also have to penalize the one person most responsible that you still have some ability to penalize.

And I'm saying they have to punish the innocent for the same reason we do so for paying players.

This is a violation that happens, potentially, once every 1 or 2 generations. Make an example out of Penn State, and maybe 30-40 years from now the president of the University of Arizona will call the police on one of the coaches of his defending national champ football team. (hey, in 30-40 years, who knows)

[BigMeatballDave]

would rather see loss of t.v. than anything else.

Penn State should NOT be on t.v. as a representation of what should be.

You can't punish their opponents.

[chiefzilla1501]

What you'll have is USC, still perfectly fine with the idea of cheating, trying to find another dirty coach and sternly admonishing him to do a better job of not getting caught.

The reason why we punish the innocent is to instead force the school to not tolerate cheating at all.

No, you won't have USC. USC got busted for a violation they KNOW every other team is getting away with. And other programs probably think it's an absolute joke that USC got hammered with sanctions, while Oregon and Auburn didn't even get touched. Rather than believe they are being punished for good reason, the school/coaches/fans/players believe they were singled out for something everybody else is doing. The USC situation, to me, is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with the NCAA.

Penn State is a different situation. The football program will get leveled. People are losing jobs. People will have criminal charges against them. They are going to get leveled with settlements and payments. In 5 years, a strong message will have been sent. I think it's silly to suggest that the guys in charge don't know that this absolutely cannot happen again.

[milkman]

And I'm saying they have to punish the innocent for the same reason we do so for paying players.

This is a violation that happens, potentially, once every 1 or 2 generations. Make an example out of Penn State, and maybe 30-40 years from now the president of the University of Arizona will call the police on one of the coaches of his defending national champ football team. (hey, in 30-40 years, who knows)

I'm probably naive, but I would like to think that Spanier, Curly and JoPa are aberrations, men of low character that pulled the wool over some eyes about what kind of men they actually were.

I'd like to think that you don't need to make an example for most people to report a crime of this heinous nature, regardless of how it might affect the standing of their program in the eyes of the community.

I'd also like to think that the community would have applauded the character of the person who actually did the right thing.

[ReynardMuldrake]

Penn State Removes Paterno Statue
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/07/23/blogs/23statue_1/23statue_1-blog480.jpg

Updated | 8:58 a.m. The president of Penn State announced on Sunday that the statue of Joe Paterno, the university’s football coach for 46 years, would be removed because it would be a “recurring wound to the multitude of individuals across the nation and beyond who have been the victims of child abuse.” It was gone before 9 a.m.

Rodney Erickson, the university’s president, said the decision was made after the release of a report by a special investigative committee led by Louis J. Freeh, a former F.B.I. director. The report concluded Mr. Paterno and other top university officials had failed to pursue child abuse accusations against Jerry Sandusky, a former defensive coordinator for Mr. Paterno’s teams who has been convicted on multiple charges of child abuse.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/penn-state-will-remove-paterno-statue/?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

[Red Dawg]

Good. Tear his name off the Library as well.

[Planetman]

Good. Tear his name off the Library as well.
When this is all said and done his name and any likeness of JoPo will be nowhere to be found.

[Setsuna]

11 wins in '05, '08 & '09. Your stupid is showing again.

That doesn't mean shit. What the fuck have they won? Bet you can't think of it off the top of your head.

[Bugeater]

That doesn't mean shit. What the fuck have they won? Bet you can't think of it off the top of your head.
Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that a team had to win a national title to be "relevant".

[Titty Meat]

That doesn't mean shit. What the **** have they won? Bet you can't think of it off the top of your head.

This is funny coming from a guy who's team went 8-5 and 7-6 the last few years and will suck again this season.

[Bugeater]

Penn State won the Orange Bowl in 2005, which means they will be relevant for the following 10 years. Just ask Wickedson if you don't think that's true.

[Bambi]

Penn State won the Orange Bowl in 2005, which means they will be relevant for the following 10 years. Just ask Wickedson if you don't think that's true.

Sucks to be you doesn't it? ROFL

[BigMeatballDave]

This is funny coming from a guy who's team went 8-5 and 7-6 the last few years and will suck again this season.

Well, in fairness, Florida has won a NC recently.

Its been 15 yrs for Nebraska :)

[Brock]

That doesn't mean shit. What the fuck have they won? Bet you can't think of it off the top of your head.

You're bad at understanding sports.

[Bambi]

What the NCAA says tomorrow is going to have a lot less impact than the legal ramifications that are coming.

After this is all done the NCAA will be the last thing the PSU crowd is concerned about.

[Bugeater]

Well, in fairness, Florida has won a NC recently.

Its been 15 yrs for Nebraska :)
No one is making the claim that Nebraska has been relevant in the last decade.

[Titty Meat]

What the NCAA says tomorrow is going to have a lot less impact than the legal ramifications that are coming.

After this is all done the NCAA will be the last thing the PSU crowd is concerned about.

Are you making terrorist threats?

[Setsuna]

This is funny coming from a guy who's team went 8-5 and 7-6 the last few years and will suck again this season.

I'm not trying to defend that the Gators have been relevant in the past 10 years, because we have. This fool is sitting here giving me shit for proof.

[Titty Meat]

I'm not trying to defend that the Gators have been relevant in the past 10 years, because we have. This fool is sitting here giving me shit for proof.

What's your definition of relevant?

[qabbaan]

Sad to see conference homers passive aggressively sticking up for Ped State

[qabbaan]

Speaking of which, I saw a photo of the guy in the Pedo bear costume with the statue last week. I don't know if that photo just surfaced or if it's an old one, but maybe the fact that the statue became a source of mockery pushed them into it

[kstater]

Sad to see conference homers passive aggressively sticking up for Ped State



Aren't you a Missouri fan?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Penn State facing "unprecedented" penalties Monday from NCAA.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I'm still trying to figure what "hasn't been relevant in years" has to do with NCAA sanctions.

If anybody finds that missing link, let me know.

[gblowfish]

I'm sure the NCAA movers and shakers will give PSU alumni enough time to grease them under the table to lessen the blow. They may have football whacked for a year or two, but it probably won't be much worse than that.

[Setsuna]

What's your definition of relevant?

Mine is essentially winning your conference and/or nat'l championship.


I'm still trying to figure what "hasn't been relevant in years" has to do with NCAA sanctions.

If anybody finds that missing link, let me know.
When someone suggested taking schollies and bowl bans away and such, and I'm saying they haven't been relevant so how is doing that as punishment any different from what they've been doing which is nothing.

[Bugeater]

Mine is essentially winning your conference and/or nat'l championship.
Penn State won their conference in '08, and split the conference title in '05, dumbfuck.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm sure the NCAA movers and shakers will give PSU alumni enough time to grease them under the table to lessen the blow. They may have football whacked for a year or two, but it probably won't be much worse than that.

Between that and the repetitional hit, I doubt they have anything close to a competitive program for at least the next 5 years. And some of the damage from this scandal will never go away. From a pure football perspective, a message is being sent. From a legal perspective, the message will be very loud and very clear.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm sure the NCAA movers and shakers will give PSU alumni enough time to grease them under the table to lessen the blow. They may have football whacked for a year or two, but it probably won't be much worse than that.

Which is why all federal $ going to PSU should be cut off pending the final resolution of all civil and criminal cases related to this. Let the alumni and endowment pay for this shit show.

[Setsuna]

Penn State won their conference in '08, and split the conference title in '05, dumb****.

:eek: ****! Well ok they have been. I will bow out now. :crybaby: :sulk:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

http://blog.jonolan.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/penn-state-pedo-bear.jpg

[Bugeater]

Sad to see conference homers passive aggressively sticking up for Ped State
Hey shit-for-brains, pointing out that Setsuna is a dumbass does not equal to sticking up for Penn State.

[chiefzilla1501]

Which is why all federal $ going to PSU should be cut off pending the final resolution of all civil and criminal cases related to this. Let the alumni and endowment pay for this shit show.

Federal $ going to PSU has nothing to do with this. That money is used to make sure those kids get the quality education they paid for, worked hard for, and deserve. I don't know what point you're trying to prove with this that isn't already being made.

[RaiderH8r]

Federal $ going to PSU has nothing to do with this. That money is used to make sure those kids get the quality education they paid for, worked hard for, and deserve. I don't know what point you're trying to prove with this that isn't already being made.

PSU is going to be paying fines, claims and punitive damages.let it be done on their own dime. Nobody is saying students shouldn't get to go there. PSU can put their endowment and fundraising to work.

[vailpass]

Which is why all federal $ going to PSU should be cut off pending the final resolution of all civil and criminal cases related to this. Let the alumni and endowment pay for this shit show.

Are you retarded?

[Mr. Laz]

Are you retarded?
i thought you didn't believe in federal funding for anything?

[Mr. Laz]

Penn State won their conference in '08, and split the conference title in '05, dumbfuck.
pedophile lover



















:)

[vailpass]

i thought you didn't believe in federal funding for anything?

If there is anyone foolish enough to think NOTHING should be federally funded I've never met them and it certainly isn't me.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Penn State won their conference in '08, and split the conference title in '05, dumb****.

Be gentle. Setsuna may look like Steven Hawking, but the SAT scores are slightly different.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Getting this thread back on track:

Suggestions for possible areas where the statue could be moved?

The PSU library.

Joe Paterno funded this library and they modify the statue so that instead of Joe's hand being up in the air his index finger could be against his lips reminding all the coaches and AD's and University Presidents students to "shhhh... keep quiet".

[WilliamTheIrish]

If Penn St. has an equestrian program they could move it there and when you touch Joe's hand he would say "No horeseplay!! to remind the stable keepers of the rule that Joe was adamant kinda wanted to think about enforcing.

[KCUnited]

Back turned to the showers at Neverland Ranch.

[RaiderH8r]

Are you retarded?

They can have it back but not until all claims and payments related to this are paid in full.

[RaiderH8r]

NAMBLA headquarters.

[kstater]

Jay Paterno still doesn't get it.

‏@JayPaterno
"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on."---John F Kennedy

[Setsuna]

Jay Paterno still doesn't get it.

‏@JayPaterno
"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on."---John F Kennedy
He needs to be banned from all PSU functions. All the other family members get a free pass except him.

[kstater]

Rumor of 30-60M fine from NCAA. Though I assume the civil penalties will be much larger when said and done.

[Bugeater]

Jay Paterno still doesn't get it.

‏@JayPaterno
"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on."---John F Kennedy
:facepalm: Someone needs to get to this guy and convince him to shut the hell up.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Rumor of 30-60M fine from NCAA. Though I assume the civil penalties will be much larger when said and done.

I'm torn. Where will this money go? The NCAA?

[kstater]

I'm torn. Where will this money go? The NCAA?

Endowment for Childrens causes.

[Rain Man]

Rumor of 30-60M fine from NCAA. Though I assume the civil penalties will be much larger when said and done.

That's all?

I really think they should get the death penalty for a few years. Someone needs to remind them of what a university is supposed to be, and that a football coach should not be the most powerful person in the land.

[Rain Man]

Endowment for Childrens causes.

I really hope they don't call it the Jerry Sandusky Endowment for Children.

[kstater]

That's all?

I really think they should get the death penalty for a few years. Someone needs to remind them of what a university is supposed to be, and that a football coach should not be the most powerful person in the land.

Oh, big time scholarship reductions as well and post season ban. Think of it this way, operating revenue for last years PSU entire AD was 115 million. This will cripple the FB program. No kid worth a lick will want to go there.

[-King-]

I really hope they don't call it the Jerry Sandusky Endowment for Children.

ROFL
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